Latest / For Azeroth!: A World of Warcraft Podcast / #219 - For Azeroth!: “A Tale of Two Betas Part 1”

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#219 - For Azeroth!: “A Tale of Two Betas Part 1” · For Azeroth!: A World of Warcraft Podcast

• 0:06
  Victory for the Forsaken for Lord, are on for the Kirin, Tor
• 0:13
  and REO for calendar organ. Alias us Endora.
• 0:30
  For the alliance for Azeroth. This episode of for Azeroth, is
• 0:47
  brought to you by a wonderful patrons over at patreon.com
• 0:50
  slash fats. Fats, will always be free, but
• 0:53
  even Joy. The content we produce consider
• 0:55
  becoming a patron at patreon / fast, that's Faz
• 1:19
  Hello and welcome back to another episode of for as her
• 1:23
  off. I am one of your hosts Manny and
• 1:25
  I am joined as always by live live.
• 1:28
  How is the World of Warcraft being treating you this week?
• 1:31
  Pretty good, pretty good. I'm bubbles away from hitting
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  level 40 on my by burning Crusade classic Shaman.
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  Gosh, it's been, it's been nice to get in and do some leveling.
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  we're in there and of course I'm doing this in preparation for
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  Wrath of the Lich King Classic where I have finally answered
• 1:56
  the quandary of which class I want to bring into the expansion
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  and all it took was looking at the tier 10 for shamans because
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  oh man, oh man, is that my favorite set of gear in the
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  entire game period to this day still my favorite set
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  aesthetically Ever like I don't think they'll ever top it
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  because it's just, it's just so good.
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  So that's what I'm doing. I'm doing Shaman, I'm going in
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  and I'm going to be playing enhancement mostly and I'll have
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  like a like a couple of restoration pieces or like a I
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  guess I'll, you know, have a full set of restoration gear for
• 2:34
  going into Dungeons and doing that kind of stuff.
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  But I am in preparation mode for burning for not for burning
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  state classic, but for Rath classic because It's on the
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  horizon. It is approaching rapidly much
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  much more rapidly than I thought it was going to be here and
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  we'll talk about that in a little bit but that's that's
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  where most of my attention in World of Warcraft has been
• 3:02
  focused right now. What about you?
• 3:04
  What about you? What are you what have you been
• 3:05
  doing in the World of Warcraft? Well, I'm sorry.
• 3:09
  I'm gonna, I'm gonna ask you a couple of questions actual,
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  okay, okay. Of course you making a Resto set
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  and then what what did you say remaining for your main raids
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  bets that again. Enhancement me answer it, okay?
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  And then what I wanted to ask is like okay, wrath is coming and
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  obviously we're the big news of the week of course is the dragon
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  flight for an announcement so we'll be talking about that but
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  have they announced when wrath would be showing up.
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  Nope. So Afterwards.
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  We were assuming it's gonna be ahead of dragon flight at this
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  point. Oh, yeah.
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  Absolutely. Like I think that they're,
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  they're beta the beta schedule. And again, we'll talk about this
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  when we get to, to the part of the show where we're going to
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  talk about all this stuff around, wrath classic and and
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  all the stuff sits this my developing their.
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  But I think the the burning Crusade classic beta I only
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  lasted a few short months. I think it was like three months
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  tops that they were. They were doing testing for
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  that. I think.
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  Less than that, I think it was like two and a half.
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  So we're approaching rapidly. We are soon soon to be in Wrath,
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  Wrath of the Lich King Classic and there's there's there's
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  complications. We'll get to that.
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  We'll get that, I guess then they are.
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  Crash. I would want to ask is out what
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  Kleine race. Are you running your Shaman?
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  Has you on the Alliance side? You on the horde side because,
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  you know, you've been switching between horde and Alliance on
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  live fairly regularly. I think I saw you back on your
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  blood elf warlock. I think I saw you being like, oh
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  you know what I wanted to play around with a mage.
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  So what are you? Where are you on your portal?
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  Alliance in terms of classic, gotta gotta be draenei.
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  I have to be draining. I okay, we got a draenei shaman
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  Enhancement Shaman. Okay, all right, all right,
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  that's, I just wanted to know as trying to picture it in my head.
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  I mean, the okay, so the haste, that, that trolls get is nice,
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  probably, probably a better DPS bun overall, then it's like it's
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  like was insane. Crap.
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  Yeah. There's no, there's no.
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  Bait like troll is just the best race for Chavez for it.
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  Like any class that that the trolls have available to them?
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  They're just best period. End of discussion.
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  There is no competition, but the hit the hit that you get for
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  being a dragon. I allows you to do some, some
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  pretty funky things and game with, with regard to gearing,
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  because you don't have to focus so much on that.
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  At like you have that you know guaranteed static percent of
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  hit. So you you are going in and are
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  able to like at least early on in the gearing process.
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  You're able to hit your hit cap for whatever you're doing like
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  like it doesn't really matter for for restoration.
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  So that like, I'm not that worried about it for Dungeons
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  and and that kind of content. But for raids like bringing
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  bringing that hit Not only to yourself, but also to your rate
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  that is is pretty massive. So that's that's what I'm going
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  for. That's that's what I'm bringing
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  is going to be the draenei shaman.
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  I'm going to be going in. I haven't decided, I haven't
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  decided what route I'm going to go as far as like 10 verses 25,
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  man, if I'm going to run a specific team comp, if I'm going
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  to try to put one together, if I'm going to try to join
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  somewhere because I'd like one of the The one of the members of
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  get your crap together as a group that they're running with
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  and going to be running a Tin Man.
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  Team might be able to join with them.
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  Who knows the world is my oyster?
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  Because we're going, what we know about on Pig?
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  Will she, she would have already have made, right?
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  Are you on a PVP or you're in PVE server PVC?
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  I'm on picking. Yeah, Care Bears.
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  It is. Yeah, it's carrot pagal.
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  Okay. All right.
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  All right. Yeah.
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  Ya gotta be. I mean, if you're playing
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  Alliance in classic you're on. Eagle.
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  And if you're not, you're incorrect.
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  I'm going to press X to doubt that I would be on pagal if I
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  was interested in myself because I have friends on classic pagle.
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  Sure. But yes, we definitely a lot of
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  other servers that are quite good and pagal.
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  I don't know, because I was way back in classic, trying to get
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  on that, it was so hard to get on that server.
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  But yeah, you know, different servers, different cultures,
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  different groups. And all of that, I like that
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  classic still has server identity that Something that
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  still exists and something that they're hoping to preserve.
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  But as for me my week and wow, it's been a pretty sparse week
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  and wow, for me, I have logged in.
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  I raid, log to this week, pretty much, maybe raid, lugging who I
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  like. It's just real life as it was
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  grotesque absolutely saying we Did a re clear of heroic because
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  we had some people who were having a lot of IRL stuff that
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  couldn't make it to for us to started Mythic.
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  So we did a re-clear of heroic we got all the way to the jail
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  are in one night using the anduin skip but we couldn't get
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  the Jailer down and then Thursday night we're like okay
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  we're back at refresh at it and then we 1-Shot the Jailer nine
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  minutes of raid that was my Thursday.
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  I was like Gone like over. Okay.
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  All right. So yeah, we're donating ready
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  for ya nights. Like those you're just like do
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  it. Don't have any episodes of that
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  anime that I need to finish? I got so much free time.
• 9:28
  What is guys? I got no back.
• 9:29
  Well I got nothing that I'm currently watching that.
• 9:32
  I'm watching on backlog I you know, I all like watch stuff as
• 9:36
  it comes out. So I'm watching Miss Marvel I'm
• 9:40
  watching the rise of the Shield hero.
• 9:43
  I'm watching spy family but like as they come out, I'm not
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  marathoning or binging on anything because it feels like
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  nothing is binging these days even the boys that like oh
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  there's another one on them trying to watch even the boys
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  I'm behind and I want to catch up and watch.
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  So maybe I'll do that. If we have another like five
• 10:04
  minute rate night but yeah, last week after we recorded, I got
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  You mounts that I was working on as a sort of long-term project
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  which means that I have nothing left with the Stitch yards with
• 10:20
  mild raxus. I am looking to get, like, eggs
• 10:24
  out of out of the dailies. So every so often all like poke
• 10:29
  in and be like, okay, how many Mount Drax is dailies, are there
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  and some of the other mounts, they're just like a bit too much
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  RNG. Like, I could get a mount if I
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  get A seed with five boost and blah, blah, blah.
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  Like there's a limit to what I can do.
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  I'm totally fine with the game. Engaging me in an imaginative
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  way. I and I honestly, I was just
• 11:03
  watching the live recording of girls gone.
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  Wow. And Raven was like speaking.
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  I'm just, like, dang it. Just talking to my soul.
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  It's just like I'm tired of this tedious grind work.
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  Like, I would love. I loved the story that came out,
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  in nine point two point, five and going through that.
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  And I've done the benari thing. And when next time, I log in,
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  there will be a letter before me.
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  If therefore, that sort of stuff.
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  And I love the story elements that we've covered in this show
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  over the last couple of weeks and I would love more of that.
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  But nine point two point. Five had a lot of you can skip
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  these this stuff and when you want went to go into it.
• 11:47
  Sure. But like I've done all of the
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  produce, the protoforms emphasis Mounds except for one that
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  requires a drop from a raid boss that you Only do like once per
• 12:00
  difficulty in a week or I can continuously grind up the
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  ciphers and turn them in for a random chance for, from a loot
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  box, and that is not effective use of my time.
• 12:15
  So, I'm waiting waiting. Wow.
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  Give me, give me something. And that's where today's news
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  comes in. Absolutely because we this week
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  just a few short days ago we got news about dragonflight finally,
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  something something newsworthy about dragonflight other than,
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  you know, the couple weeks ago that we got to to count them to
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  hold talent trees and that's all we've had to chew on for a
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  couple of weeks now. Well, that changed this week
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  because they told us when we're getting dragonflight Roughly
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  about honor or December 31st 2022, which what?
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  What do you mean? Why I like like I'm gonna be
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  through this. What what what do you mean?
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  What that's that. I guess that's the like I need
• 13:16
  to find the question that I want to ask someone anyone at
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  blizzard right now. What are you thinking like what
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  is, what is the thought process behind getting this out before
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  the end of the year? Okay, so you seem to have the
• 13:31
  take that a lot of people have and I have been so contrary into
• 13:36
  this take but I've been keeping it to myself because you know
• 13:38
  what, you want to hear my opinion.
• 13:40
  You come here to for Azeroth. A lot of people are like, oh my
• 13:43
  goodness, this is really early. This seems like, whoa, wait a
• 13:48
  second. We weren't expecting it this
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  year but then I started thinking like why weren't we expecting it
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  this year? And really, the reason that we
• 13:55
  were not expecting it this year is because The community develop
• 13:59
  this narrative and this narrative showed up when they
• 14:03
  announced a season 4 when season for showed up people like, okay,
• 14:07
  well that's it. We're not getting a dragonflight
• 14:10
  this year, right? They are putting in this new
• 14:13
  season. There's quote, unquote stalling
• 14:15
  for time and stuff, it's going to stretch on when athelas, did
• 14:19
  that interview with Morgan day. He was like, oh, how long should
• 14:23
  we expect these Seasons to be? And work day was like, you know,
• 14:26
  basya standard season seems Like a good guess, said it was a good
• 14:30
  guess. And then a throughout six to
• 14:33
  eight months and Morgan was just let let it let it sit there.
• 14:38
  And so people took that And they went.
• 14:41
  Okay well that means that it's going a year out or 14 months
• 14:46
  out or eight at eight go. My goodness we're going to be
• 14:50
  out there 16 months like oh my goodness, right.
• 14:52
  But that's not what we said and then later on they said, okay
• 14:56
  season 4 is going to be a shorter season.
• 15:00
  And we're going to be just testing some stuff to see what
• 15:02
  it is. Now here's the big thing.
• 15:04
  Season 4 is clearly a test bed for things that are going to be
• 15:08
  coming and being applied later on, you know, in a way it's sort
• 15:13
  of a way for them to do something.
• 15:16
  I have been asking blizzard to do for a long time.
• 15:18
  Test your endgame when we get into the Beta the leveling
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  experience. Come on guys, that's pretty
• 15:24
  wrote. You guys know that sort of stuff
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  really? You're just too wanting people
• 15:27
  to test to see if they like run off.
• 15:29
  Edge of the world. They find holes like in like the
• 15:33
  BFA test. They were certain places in.
• 15:38
  Oh, man. What was the Zone?
• 15:42
  It was in zandalari. It was It was V the swamps.
• 15:48
  No, it wasn't full Dune. There's a swamps.
• 15:50
  It was I am blanking on the name of the swamps now.
• 15:53
  Oh gosh. That was like, yeah.
• 15:56
  You were trying to climb up the stairs in like one of those
• 15:58
  little temples and then you just fall out the middle of the world
• 16:01
  and like Loops so gay. So, like I know it's just stuff
• 16:04
  like that and it's sure. Okay.
• 16:07
  Bastian didn't really have much of that.
• 16:10
  So those sort of test you test through it.
• 16:14
  A couple of times you're testing through the The Story.
• 16:18
  You're testing through to make sure that the quest chain
• 16:20
  doesn't break, or some NPC doesn't spawn and that sort of
• 16:23
  thing. But like, once people have gone
• 16:26
  live and it goes through the first impact, typically, that'll
• 16:32
  survive, maybe the first two months before everybody's on
• 16:35
  endgame, and then, people are living a 10 game for the next
• 16:40
  remainder of the two years between expansions So the end
• 16:45
  game is what I want them to be testing testing the reward
• 16:48
  system through the season, for is an ingenious way to do it but
• 16:53
  also means that they can do some concurrent testing.
• 16:57
  So I don't think it's a scary that we're getting season season
• 17:01
  4 and getting the new expansion this year.
• 17:06
  I also think that this is a point that people have brought
• 17:09
  up that K. Yeah.
• 17:11
  They're not going to be testing through.
• 17:14
  This borrowed power system that would require a lot of testing
• 17:18
  guys. Remember shadowlands, remember
• 17:20
  how much testing we had on the board power system?
• 17:23
  Absolutely none. We had one week where the
• 17:27
  Azurite gear showed up and people are like, oh well, maybe
• 17:30
  the raids are gonna offer more and stuff.
• 17:32
  We didn't get any testing on that, right?
• 17:36
  Do you remember when we were dealing with the Covenant in
• 17:41
  terms of shadowlands? Like, okay, well you'll have all
• 17:45
  of these these things. They didn't need much testing in
• 17:48
  that. It was basically here's the
• 17:50
  track. We know you're going to get one
• 17:52
  per week and you and we will make sure that there's catch up
• 17:54
  so you can do catch up and it went pretty, pretty smooth.
• 17:59
  However, laborious it was for terms of job for power, but
• 18:04
  they, they pretty much have those systems to a template and
• 18:10
  don't really test them as much. So, without those systems, I
• 18:15
  don't think that this is going to be that crazy, but what I
• 18:20
  think I would have loved is some Stronger emphasis put on the end
• 18:29
  game, not in just like what the system is.
• 18:32
  But like, what entertains Us in the end game?
• 18:35
  Because when you're looking at nine point two point, five, and
• 18:39
  when you are looking at what we did in core Thea, It's a Grind.
• 18:43
  It's a do this, repeat do this. Repeat, I want them to be
• 18:49
  putting in stuff like we had in Legion.
• 18:52
  Like we had with the withered training, Or half Hill Farm from
• 18:58
  Warlords of Draenor or building up.
• 19:02
  You mean Mists of Pandaria, mr. Pandaria.
• 19:04
  Sorry, what was the drainer is build up your Garrison, which
• 19:06
  was the next thing I was going to say, write something that you
• 19:11
  do day to day outside of rating that can engage you and not bore
• 19:17
  you or frustrate you which is why I think that the focus on
• 19:22
  the testing absolutely needs to be in perfect.
• 19:25
  Russians, they need to get that out in front of us.
• 19:30
  Day one is get professions out, get those built, get them
• 19:36
  robust, and make sure that they have a plan in place like that.
• 19:41
  Obviously, this isn't something that we're going to be testing
• 19:44
  immediately when we get into the Beta.
• 19:46
  But make sure that they have a plane internally for making sure
• 19:49
  that professions remain relevant and not just be something that
• 19:52
  is. Oh you just get a new recipe.
• 19:55
  That's what you working on. Now, for months, they need to
• 19:59
  have that system. Be something that is that is
• 20:02
  evolving through the. Through the expansion is in is
• 20:08
  not like the source of what you said entertainment throughout
• 20:14
  the The in-game Experience outside of outside of rating,
• 20:18
  Mythic plus and all that. But have it be something that is
• 20:21
  contributing to the the list of things.
• 20:25
  That are able to be done to provide some sort of
• 20:30
  entertainment to or just reason to login.
• 20:34
  Do you think that professions are going to have some sort of
• 20:37
  mini game or Quest sort of path to it?
• 20:42
  Like, I don't know, I don't know because we haven't gotten any
• 20:47
  any real, you know, anything, you know, big to see sink our
• 20:52
  teeth into with regards to that system but that just seems more
• 20:57
  of a system. Another system again to me I
• 21:02
  think that profession And will be relevant as long as the power
• 21:09
  that they give out is relevant. And what they're doing is
• 21:15
  hooking those professions into the outside world, by saying
• 21:20
  here, go to this place and you will find a that like they gave
• 21:25
  the example, like, oh, there's this rare that you can go kill,
• 21:28
  and it'll have something that you can use.
• 21:31
  To craft whatever piece of gear. And so if there's a lot of those
• 21:36
  around, then the professional people or two people who want to
• 21:39
  use it because work orders are now our thing will go and hunt
• 21:42
  down that that rare as it Scouts around, and you will have
• 21:46
  hunting parties that were that were existing back in the day
• 21:52
  and I think that will be fine. And of course as a development
• 21:56
  new recipe, as we go into new places, there will be a new
• 22:00
  record. Hunt for this new recipe that
• 22:02
  they add in. And I think that's kind of wrote
• 22:06
  systematic stuff, what I was really wanting for and like,
• 22:12
  that will be somewhat entertaining, that will be
• 22:15
  something where it's like, okay, I want to do this, I want to
• 22:17
  level up this profession. I want to like, like, put stuff
• 22:21
  into the, into the market, that's got this.
• 22:23
  So, I want to go hunt down this, this beast.
• 22:26
  But like what I was thinking more along the lines of was
• 22:30
  Quest. Just that are along the lines of
• 22:33
  Jeremy feasel Secrets. We're okay.
• 22:37
  I want to unlock something cosmetic even whether it is a
• 22:42
  Mount like we have had the Riddler's mine worm or or things
• 22:48
  like that or a pet or, or some sort of transmog, I would love,
• 22:54
  of course, being able to get a trend, sorry, cosmetic glyph
• 23:02
  Because remember inscription is still a profession.
• 23:06
  Yeah right and you have to hunt down a rare.
• 23:10
  It's like oh I want to make my leg.
• 23:13
  Earthquake, look different. So, I have to go hunt down this
• 23:17
  Earth Elemental and get its core and that will make the glyph.
• 23:21
  That is a very great way of doing that.
• 23:25
  And that's still part of that fetch Quest.
• 23:26
  But to say, it's very much, a cosmetic thing that glyphs do
• 23:30
  the same way. I would love to to care about, I
• 23:34
  don't know, they have the centaurs that are in the in the
• 23:39
  one zone and they're living in some form of With the
• 23:44
  surrounding life and I would love for part of their entire
• 23:48
  thing because that is probably going to be a faction where
• 23:52
  we're going to be using the new renowned system.
• 23:56
  And their way of doing renowned is as interesting and as unique
• 24:01
  as when we were doing dragon writing.
• 24:02
  Once again, going back to Mists of Pandaria.
• 24:05
  Where the different factions all have their own different ways of
• 24:10
  you increasing your your renown. / rep grind and that to me is
• 24:15
  what I would want to be testing. Yeah it's a quote-unquote system
• 24:19
  that they've already had in there but how you go about it
• 24:22
  and what you're doing with your day to day?
• 24:24
  That's what I want to be testing because like I said that's going
• 24:27
  to be the majority of my Play Time long after I've gone
• 24:31
  through the questing experience and I did that so many times in
• 24:37
  shadowlands like we all got tired of them all.
• 24:42
  Yeah. and that's so there's There is, you know, something
• 24:48
  else to consider with this, with, with the idea of having
• 24:52
  like, multiple different areas that you can be working on in
• 24:57
  the indie game, right? Like you have, you have all
• 24:59
  these factions like we had in Mists of Pandaria, like we had
• 25:03
  in, you know, a lesser extent in Warlords and, you know, just
• 25:09
  about throughout the entire history of World of Warcraft,
• 25:11
  who had multiple instances of, you know, several different
• 25:15
  reputation grants happening simultaneously.
• 25:17
  Tiny ously, Ed game, and I think something that they need to be
• 25:22
  careful about with. That is not overwhelming.
• 25:27
  The, the players with all of the things that are capable of
• 25:32
  happening all concurrently like it would be very easy for them
• 25:37
  to have you know five different renowned systems all going that
• 25:41
  like okay you've hit level 70 Go Buck Wild you know start on any
• 25:46
  of these. He's or all of them like that
• 25:49
  wood or has the potential to lead to a, to a place where
• 25:55
  people feel overwhelmed by the amount of things that are
• 25:59
  available in in game and I think that, that was, you know, a
• 26:02
  lesson. They should have learned in
• 26:03
  gentle hands because we did have something very similar to that,
• 26:07
  where we hit in game, and there was just a lot, a lot of things
• 26:12
  that you could do that, and none of them necessarily Early
• 26:17
  impacted the the power that you were able to gain directly like
• 26:23
  you had, you had your Renown grind and that was like the main
• 26:27
  power progression for in-game, right?
• 26:29
  But you had all these other things you can do outside of
• 26:32
  that. And the it became very quickly
• 26:40
  noted that there were a whole lot of things like you had just
• 26:44
  a laundry list of things to do on a weekly.
• 26:46
  Asus that you needed to make sure that you were hitting and
• 26:51
  that list. Was huge.
• 26:55
  And people felt overwhelmed by that.
• 26:57
  I'm okay. So I remember that being a very
• 27:02
  real thing in something like mist of Pandaria where every rep
• 27:07
  unlocked and you could go do all of them.
• 27:10
  And you didn't have a rep or not rep, you didn't have a daily
• 27:14
  limit because you before that the daily limit use to be like,
• 27:16
  you only do 25 dailies and that in a day before you were kept
• 27:19
  out, remember that being a thing in shadowlands.
• 27:23
  I don't recall it. As much of a thing you had the I
• 27:28
  need to go get my memory. The memory that I need for my
• 27:33
  legendary you had the I need my conduit.
• 27:38
  If you were pushing towards like high level rating and I need to
• 27:42
  get all the mythix before the season opens up, so I can get
• 27:45
  all my Mythic zeros done. Mmm.
• 27:49
  I don't recall anything else. Like, I mean, obviously that's
• 27:52
  a, that's an addition to, like, let me get my renowned up, which
• 27:56
  you could do by hunting down those other things, concurrently
• 28:00
  well. And, I mean, it's easy to forget
• 28:03
  because, you know, we live in, in, you know, the back end of
• 28:08
  Shadow lands where it is stupid. Easy, just to go get a
• 28:11
  legendary, like we have all of the reagents that we need to
• 28:16
  craft our legendaries. Just pouring out of our pockets
• 28:18
  all the time. Like you don't have to really go
• 28:20
  try and grind Cosmic flux, you don't have to go try and grind a
• 28:24
  whole bunch of the other materials and everything but
• 28:28
  that wasn't your tour gastro. You had your tour guests were on
• 28:31
  that you had to do once each week.
• 28:33
  Yeah. Which and adds, you know, to my
• 28:36
  point of like that that was a weekly activity that you had to
• 28:39
  do and and if you didn't do that Weekly activity, you were
• 28:43
  falling behind everyone else. So that's that's where my my
• 28:48
  word of caution. Is is make sure that there is a
• 28:52
  lots of stuff to do, but try to find a balance between having it
• 28:57
  feel, you know, forced protracted, and also having it
• 29:05
  be everything all at once all the time.
• 29:08
  Okay. So I think, yeah, the worst
• 29:12
  thing that they do with these end game systems is that they
• 29:16
  make things mandatory tour gas, when we were testing it on the
• 29:21
  beta and in the alpha was just a lot of fun.
• 29:25
  Then you had to do it because you needed to get your soul Ash
• 29:29
  because this was before Soul Sanders or anything.
• 29:31
  It was just purely Ash that you needed to get and only way you
• 29:35
  could get the highest amount in the fastest I was to do it at
• 29:38
  the highest level and it only came from tour gas.
• 29:41
  So that was added to your chore list and of course that like
• 29:45
  lack of overlap is an issue that they had from BFA because I
• 29:51
  remember Islands, you had to do your, your Island runs and that
• 29:57
  was like the mandatory off thing.
• 29:59
  You couldn't just get your whatever AP points, whether it
• 30:04
  be anima, whether it be as right, whether it be our
• 30:07
  Artifact power. You couldn't get that your AP
• 30:10
  through your normal sense of play.
• 30:12
  And that is something that they've I think that they have
• 30:16
  been saying when they initially started talking about,
• 30:19
  dragonflight wasn't something that they were going to be doing
• 30:22
  any more. There wasn't going to be this
• 30:24
  constant need grind of a Here Comes Here Comes Your emissaries
• 30:30
  or your callings and you got to do them or you'll fall behind.
• 30:36
  Here's your weekly checklist. You got to do more you fall
• 30:39
  behind. I think that is something I hope
• 30:41
  is behind us, but when I'm talking about hunting down a
• 30:46
  particular rare to get to get that reagent to do a piece of
• 30:50
  gear, that isn't hunting that rare down once each week for
• 30:54
  eight weeks straight to get the year.
• 30:56
  That is you hunt it down, it has a 100% drop chance and you take
• 31:03
  that one piece to whoever is building it, whether it be a
• 31:06
  blacksmith or less. Leather worker or a tailor or
• 31:10
  jewelcrafting or whatever. Yeah right you did you just do
• 31:13
  that. It's so is a quest to get my
• 31:15
  reward. Yeah.
• 31:17
  And something something that just popped in my mind because
• 31:19
  I've been thinking about Monster Hunter a lot recently.
• 31:24
  I've never played never played but basically how that system
• 31:29
  works it's like a it's a Lobby game.
• 31:31
  You go in. You select the much.
• 31:33
  You want to hunt down, you go hunt down that monster.
• 31:35
  The monster drops. Reagents that you take back.
• 31:37
  To the hub, you turn those reagents into gear to go hunt
• 31:42
  the monsters better. I think that that would be a
• 31:45
  better way of handling that specifically.
• 31:48
  Like you've said, you know, going and getting like finding
• 31:53
  this. This rare marching around in the
• 31:55
  world. I think it would be better not
• 31:56
  to have it based on the current rare system which is wildly
• 32:00
  frustrating. You know especially coming out
• 32:03
  of 0th mortis. I cannot tell you how many times
• 32:07
  how many times I've seen an icon for a rare or rarely or
• 32:10
  whatever. What have you pop up on the map?
• 32:12
  I get there. And as I'm approaching the
• 32:16
  health of the mob hits zero, and I'm not anywhere like, I'm with
• 32:20
  in like 80 yards, but not 40 where I can actually reach the
• 32:26
  mob and tag it and get the rewards for fighting there, that
• 32:32
  is just available to that mob. So I think I think in theory The
• 32:38
  rear system would work but I think a system like that would
• 32:41
  be better where you have this kind of system of you have like
• 32:46
  a, like a quest that starts up and you can select which monitor
• 32:51
  Which rare you want to go hunt. It groups you up with a bunch of
• 32:54
  people that are also fighting that rear.
• 32:56
  And then now you have an open-world raid party that's
• 32:58
  going specifically to try and Hunt that mob down and everyone
• 33:03
  gets their Awards and brings back and crafts.
• 33:06
  The, the items. Like, I think that would be a
• 33:08
  better system of hander better way of handling, a system like
• 33:12
  that, so I think that system would organically show up in
• 33:16
  World of Warcraft. If particular mobs, drop
• 33:20
  particular things, the problem in 0th mortis is that all of the
• 33:24
  mobs drop, nothing in particular that you care about and all
• 33:29
  them. Drop the one thing that you you
• 33:33
  care about, so it doesn't matter if you kill mob ex-mob.
• 33:37
  Why mob said you are required to run around and kill them all.
• 33:43
  So if it was a single item that dropped from a particular mob
• 33:47
  with a 100% drop chance, you'd have it closer to early there
• 33:52
  with mortise where there would be groups in the group, find to
• 33:54
  be like, hey waiting for this to spawn.
• 33:56
  Let's go kill it. Yeah, and then you would, you
• 33:58
  would go to an area and you'd be like oh it just died and then he
• 34:02
  would go into the group finder. And you'd be like Where is there
• 34:06
  a group here? Perfect, here's a group and you
• 34:08
  would shift in that group you would go and fight it and that
• 34:12
  would be a way to go about it. I think that with World quests
• 34:18
  they could have like a oh this world quest is for blacksmiths
• 34:23
  and this world quest drops this sort of thing just like they had
• 34:27
  in Legion where it's like, oh here's bacon World quest for
• 34:30
  anybody who does cooking and you can go get bacon from from any
• 34:34
  of these World quest. They're and lo and behold.
• 34:38
  Bacon becomes a reagent that you can use in the to make
• 34:42
  particular Foods. So people like, oh, great,
• 34:44
  great, can you trade me? Can you trade me?
• 34:46
  Oh, I can get work orders to make that.
• 34:49
  And so people of those crafting things will go out and be like,
• 34:52
  oh, I want to go clear out those Quest and it's not that you you,
• 34:58
  if you're just doing it for yourself, you need it all the
• 35:00
  time. But if you are doing it to make
• 35:01
  money, you would be out there all the time.
• 35:03
  Being like, let me go find the bacon Quest.
• 35:05
  Let me go find the bacon Quest and I think that is a good way
• 35:08
  of limiting it but also allowing for people to do more rather
• 35:15
  than it be like oh you only get this Quest if you're after this
• 35:20
  thing to elected to do it. I think if you are going to do
• 35:23
  farming like for you need more stuff, that's when I would start
• 35:27
  pushing it towards instance content.
• 35:29
  So it's like, oh I need 20 charms.
• 35:33
  So let me go do For Dungeon and all the dungeon bosses can drop
• 35:39
  three to four charms. So if I do for Dungeons and they
• 35:43
  all they all drop the charms, right?
• 35:45
  And it's like three or four boss, dungeon /, I'll definitely
• 35:48
  I should be able to get it doing those Dungeons and that to me
• 35:51
  would seem fine and would encourage people to go into do
• 35:53
  dungeons, right? But at the same time, people
• 35:56
  would be like, I hate doing dungeons.
• 35:59
  So let me instead gather everything else.
• 36:02
  Put up a work order and go to somebody else who has done that.
• 36:07
  Yeah, yeah. Or if on the reverse, your a
• 36:11
  dungeon fiend, you're like whoo baby.
• 36:14
  I've been playing raffle Lich King, Classic and I I have lived
• 36:22
  and breathed and Dungeons. And so I'm jumping over to a
• 36:26
  dragon flight and now I just do dungeons, 2, Dungeons.
• 36:29
  And I've got a bunch of these but I don't want to go do.
• 36:32
  These particular things to get that.
• 36:34
  Let me just bring this to the work order and pay for the rest
• 36:38
  of it. You've basically just described
• 36:41
  the, the he got chocolate in my peanut butter.
• 36:45
  He got peanut butter in my chocolate seen.
• 36:48
  When you go, that's exactly what that is.
• 36:51
  That's that's, you know, you have, you have these
• 36:53
  ingredients. This this other person has these
• 36:55
  ingredients and everybody comes together to to work together.
• 37:00
  To make the good thing that one actually wants.
• 37:04
  But yeah, I there is there is so much potential for in-game
• 37:08
  content for for sustainable in-game content in crafting in
• 37:14
  having all the systems kind of intermingle and and work
• 37:19
  together to create a just an in-game experience that
• 37:26
  organically Happens, right? So I think that's, that's what
• 37:33
  needs to be cultivated. That's that's what needs to be
• 37:35
  tested. That's what needs to be worked
• 37:37
  on. Because at the end of the day,
• 37:39
  we know the rays are going to be tested.
• 37:40
  They're going to work. We know the dungeons are going
• 37:42
  to be tested, they're going to work.
• 37:44
  We know the leveling content is just going to work but that is
• 37:49
  such a small part of the entire expansion, such a small part of
• 37:55
  the entire expansion and just like you said, top of the
• 37:57
  episode It's where it's where the beta testing happens.
• 38:01
  That's, that's the beta test. For a lot of it is just testing
• 38:06
  the open world leveling kind of not even, not even open world
• 38:09
  in-game content. Just the leveling content is
• 38:12
  primarily what you get tested, what gets tested and then the
• 38:16
  the raids get thrown in on the PTR.
• 38:19
  And that's it. That's the testing that gets
• 38:22
  done. So I think they need to shift
• 38:24
  their focus this time around. Yeah, assuming that it stays
• 38:28
  with the Our testing. I do think that this may be a
• 38:32
  little bit fast because when you're looking at where we're at
• 38:36
  right now, and as of the time of this recording we are currently
• 38:41
  at June 26. So let's assume that June is
• 38:45
  done with the few days that has left over, but we get an alpha
• 38:50
  right? Because a beta test is a feature
• 38:53
  complete test and that doesn't normally happen until we get an
• 38:57
  alpha test. where they won by 1 open up the different Zones that
• 39:04
  will be leveling in and test them.
• 39:07
  And then we get the endgame endgame test where everything's
• 39:10
  open. And I've done the testing for
• 39:12
  the PVP at max level and all of that sort of stuff and then we
• 39:16
  go into beta. So, We still have how many zones
• 39:22
  in in the terms of the Dragon Isles, I believe it's 5, right?
• 39:27
  For that are normal leveling and one that is set for the drakh
• 39:32
  fear opening experience and use a 10 game is that endgame.
• 39:38
  Use going to be something like we had in Legion again.
• 39:42
  We're going back to Legion where we had one zone that was just
• 39:46
  for max level. I would hope so that Kind of
• 39:49
  cool. I'd love to have that End Game
• 39:52
  Zone. It's something that they have
• 39:53
  done also in shadowlands but like everybody hated them all
• 40:00
  should. The mall have gotten more
• 40:02
  testing should the should have gotten more input on that I
• 40:07
  think so. Right that's that's part of
• 40:10
  testing but beyond that we don't know what there is in terms of
• 40:16
  end game systems, right? Yeah, yeah.
• 40:19
  Like we know that their their revamping professions and they
• 40:24
  said that they're trying to de-emphasize World quests and
• 40:27
  nothing else has been put forward.
• 40:30
  So that's that's worrying, that's that's wearing.
• 40:34
  So then one thing that's been going out was something that was
• 40:38
  put up on Reddit and a couple of content creators have also been
• 40:45
  showing it is this, here's how long the beta will be.
• 40:48
  For dragonflight, and this has been shown to show that like,
• 40:52
  dragonflights beta time isn't as short as other things, but
• 40:57
  there's a couple of points. One is that, that one was based
• 41:01
  on the beta starting. June 23rd hasn't happened yet,
• 41:06
  it's based on it. Getting released on December
• 41:09
  31st which doesn't include any pre expansion time, right, where
• 41:16
  you would have the systems patch come Out and we would get a
• 41:19
  month of, hey, is this this table with part of that being,
• 41:23
  like, here's the pre expansion event, all of whatever it is.
• 41:27
  Whether it be like the war of the Thorns, like we had with BFA
• 41:31
  or the invasion in icecrown. Like, we had with Shadowland,
• 41:35
  that's something else. It doesn't include the fact that
• 41:40
  the few that were shorter than this are things like BC and
• 41:46
  Wrath of the Lich King and games have only gotten more complex
• 41:50
  since they are doing a total Talent revamp in this expansion.
• 41:55
  That is more. Akin to reversing Mists of
• 41:59
  Pandaria which didn't have one of the shorter times.
• 42:04
  There's a lot to be, there's a lot to be worked out here.
• 42:07
  There's a lot to be adjusted here and it all needs to come
• 42:09
  together in a smooth way that is foundational for future
• 42:13
  expansions. This is not something that they
• 42:15
  can be like, oh well, this fix this next time it's supposed to
• 42:17
  be something that they're able to build upon, definitely
• 42:20
  something. I like, I don't want another
• 42:23
  Shadow lands where it's great at first and then quickly get sold
• 42:27
  in the tooth. I don't want us being like BFA.
• 42:31
  We're we're like my goodness. They need to Mix this and we get
• 42:35
  a new system layered on top of a system that was fundamentally,
• 42:40
  just not fun. Yeah.
• 42:43
  Yeah. And like to, to the credit of
• 42:48
  What I think that they're trying to do with the talent rework is
• 42:52
  that they're trying to to hinge the entire endgame off of how.
• 42:59
  Well, this goes, which is terrifying as a player of World
• 43:05
  of Warcraft because they've done this before.
• 43:06
  Exactly. Like what you just said, they
• 43:08
  did it in BFA. What we got was not not anything
• 43:13
  close to what anyone wanted or asked for and they Within the
• 43:19
  first content patch cycle, had to come out and say, hey, we
• 43:25
  messed up. We're going to spend the
• 43:28
  entirety and push back the development of an entire patch
• 43:35
  to make sure that this gets fixed going forward into the
• 43:39
  into the rest of the expansion. And that is a very real
• 43:45
  possibility. If this Has you know, way less
• 43:50
  testing time which there's no telling you know how how long
• 43:54
  they've actually been spending on this.
• 43:57
  Like they could have been working on on the the alpha
• 44:01
  internally for dragonflight for a very long time.
• 44:07
  They could have had you know the majority of this stuff already
• 44:10
  up and running on the alpha for months and months and months.
• 44:13
  But that's then this just goes back to the to the debate about
• 44:18
  Whether or not, you know, PTR is a good thing because one of the
• 44:23
  advantages of having public testing is that you have the
• 44:29
  ability to brute-force break, things that you would not,
• 44:34
  otherwise find until it is opened to the masses in a beta
• 44:42
  /, PT are setting. And if there is nothing, if
• 44:48
  there is something terribly wrong with the talent system in
• 44:53
  a mass situation, they're not going to know that until it's
• 44:58
  too late. Well, I think one thing that I
• 45:02
  well one thing that you said there was that like oh maybe
• 45:05
  it's going to be an going along much further than we think
• 45:08
  internally and they're much further along than we know about
• 45:12
  sort of thing. I don't believe that.
• 45:16
  To be the the case because when they have been talking about
• 45:20
  these systems, when when they had the Deluge of information
• 45:24
  when they lie, they said, okay we're revealing dragonflight and
• 45:28
  they were talking with the community council and they had
• 45:29
  all those those interviews. There's a lot of this is
• 45:33
  something we're thinking about this is something, we're
• 45:35
  considering this is something we're mindful of, but not a lot
• 45:39
  of this is what we're doing in. You're going to see it soon.
• 45:42
  There was a lot of things that were still.
• 45:45
  Decision being made decisions that were still being made
• 45:47
  things that were not set in stone.
• 45:49
  And if those were already tested and go and flying on some
• 45:52
  internal Alpha you would have a completely different set of
• 45:55
  conversations than what we got. I would say that.
• 45:59
  Yeah, they've likely been pushing forward with this and
• 46:03
  there's likely a lot that we haven't seen but how much of it
• 46:08
  is cemented robustly tested? That's a different question and
• 46:14
  just like, That there is a difference between like, oh,
• 46:17
  we're testing with what we envision in mind, which is what
• 46:22
  you get with internal Alphas, which is what you get with.
• 46:26
  Like, the people who worked on it testing and people who have
• 46:31
  no idea what your goals are testing, which is where you get
• 46:36
  external people. Checking, that's the nature of a
• 46:38
  beta test. When somebody doesn't know that
• 46:41
  you're supposed to put the one there and the other, One there
• 46:45
  and they go, oh hell. I'll put these on the far end
• 46:47
  and they come up with a strategy.
• 46:49
  You never saw coming and it's broken and way more powerful
• 46:52
  than you ever went through. So like, yes, that's what we're
• 46:55
  going to see with the talent trees.
• 46:57
  Somebody's going to make a stupid wacky build, and or maybe
• 47:00
  like that doesn't work. And we're going to have to
• 47:03
  control that somebody is going to put together a very weird DPS
• 47:11
  build that allows them to out. He'll like dead.
• 47:14
  Headed healers. I'm gonna be like, okay, that's
• 47:16
  too much off healing utility healing from a DPS, there's
• 47:20
  going to be just even between the typical balance of healers
• 47:27
  between the each other and tanks between each other.
• 47:30
  There's going to be like, we need to strengthen x, y, and Zed
• 47:34
  base. So, even if they don't take the
• 47:36
  talent, they're still viable, with whatever content, or we're
• 47:40
  going to have to shift this Talent further up the tree.
• 47:42
  So it is much easier to attain. Pain.
• 47:45
  All that sort of balance is going to be there, but that
• 47:47
  isn't just the balance thinking about again in terms of the
• 47:52
  enjoyment of the game in terms of the longevity of the play,
• 47:57
  right? That is stuff that you are going
• 47:59
  to need to see tested so that we don't yet another tour, guess so
• 48:04
  that we don't have Islands, which may or may not have been
• 48:07
  fun, depending on who you ask, but we're always a chore, right?
• 48:12
  And that's the stuff that won't. Don't be there until they have
• 48:17
  fully committed to a reward scheme to the tile time getting
• 48:23
  that they'll put in or whatever sort of like throttling that
• 48:26
  they want to put in because sometimes the enjoyment is
• 48:29
  sucked out because you have to do it 20 million times or
• 48:33
  because you start off so we can you have to build power before
• 48:38
  it even becomes enjoyable like do you remember Visions?
• 48:42
  I love visions that cap. Cap some people hate admissions
• 48:46
  because they didn't, they didn't get the cap and I went, and I
• 48:48
  got all the masks and I was like, oh my goodness, I can't
• 48:51
  believe I did this. And some people I remembered
• 48:54
  Ross on this very show was like, I hate visions that I just, I
• 48:59
  just get frustrated and blah, blah, blah, blah blah, right?
• 49:01
  And this is an audio show, so you cannot see live just
• 49:05
  pointing straight to her then her complete agreement with with
• 49:10
  Joss, but there are different things and how Editore.
• 49:15
  It is should be on how broad and appeal it is too.
• 49:19
  Yeah, I could not. You couldn't pay me.
• 49:23
  You couldn't pay me to go, and do visions and I on a whim on a
• 49:29
  whim. I decided to do one because I
• 49:32
  was like eggs head. I haven't done it before and I
• 49:36
  got the mail bunch of Mount like that that run.
• 49:39
  That's the only like high-end high level Vision that I
• 49:44
  Audience was that one? And I got something out of.
• 49:46
  It was just like, all right, I have no reason, absolutely, no
• 49:50
  reason to go back and farm this out, like there is nothing here
• 49:54
  for me. Like I don't really care that
• 49:57
  much about the legendary cloak and powering it up because at
• 50:00
  the level that I was reading at the time that we were rating at
• 50:03
  the time, I was just like, I know you can't, I can't be
• 50:07
  bothered to go and do and continue to do this.
• 50:10
  Like it's my cloak is at a acceptable level.
• 50:14
  Like if I went and got it up, completely maxed like it would
• 50:19
  maybe provide like point one percent of a DPS increase, it's
• 50:23
  not worth my time. All of the additional
• 50:26
  corruption, you could land on it and then yeah, of course
• 50:29
  corruption and everything but like yeah it's completely
• 50:32
  different topic tangent sort of thing and how it connected with
• 50:36
  the game and was a mandatory thing Visions in my mind is the
• 50:40
  predecessor for tour guests and they learned the wrong lessons
• 50:44
  from It. Yeah yeah.
• 50:46
  There's a lot of things that need a lot of people to test.
• 50:50
  You do need a beta thorough beta testing on these sort of things
• 50:55
  that could Define your expansion.
• 50:59
  I genuinely believe that shadow lands in 9.0 was Pretty amazing
• 51:09
  outside of tour gassed. Yeah.
• 51:12
  I think that core Thea was an absolute disaster because it was
• 51:16
  just a bunch of fetch quests. And once you did the story, it
• 51:20
  fell flat. I think that despite the fact
• 51:22
  that 9.2 isn't mandatory content what it offers is not that much
• 51:29
  different from core Theory except that you're not forced to
• 51:32
  do it so you're like, yeah. Okay I'm going to look into this
• 51:35
  and some people they look in Like, I don't have to do that
• 51:38
  and they run away as fast as they can, and some people,
• 51:42
  they're like, okay, I'm going to do this and they're like, man,
• 51:46
  this just takes a long time to get everything.
• 51:49
  And why are you making this heart so hard to get everything.
• 51:52
  Yeah. Or its players like myself that
• 51:55
  they see, they see the obvious. They see the obvious easy, easy
• 52:03
  power grabs that are available in that content and get up to Or
• 52:07
  just use it as a way to get up, to a baseline, to prepare
• 52:11
  character, to go into something. Because you're in all the holic,
• 52:15
  you have a clear problem and this is, this is just a way to
• 52:19
  facilitate that. And so you're just using the,
• 52:24
  the content like zeroth mortis to to say, okay?
• 52:27
  I'm going to use this to, you know, boost my character a
• 52:29
  little bit to help get in and fill some gaps while I'm running
• 52:33
  Mythic plus preparing this character to step into the raid.
• 52:37
  At a normal and heroic level, and that's what I'm going to use
• 52:41
  this for. And is soon, the moment, the
• 52:44
  singular moment, that, that content becomes not useful where
• 52:49
  you can gain anything from it. Directly, you stopped doing it
• 52:53
  all together. Just immediate immediate pause.
• 52:58
  Yeah, I would, but free big thing that we keep coming back
• 53:01
  to is that I want content that I complete for the enjoyment of
• 53:05
  it, not the power gains from it, because there's there's been so
• 53:08
  much content in WoW lately that has been done for the reward and
• 53:14
  not for the enjoyment of of itself or the journey as it were
• 53:19
  We will see how quickly we get an alpha or a beta and I would
• 53:27
  not be surprised. Nor would I be angry if they
• 53:30
  said, hey, we are going to delay the release of this expansion
• 53:34
  because to me, this seems like a top-down directed to be like,
• 53:40
  you need to release this game this year and whoever came up
• 53:45
  with this date was like this is the best I can give you guys.
• 53:48
  This is a very Day of the year and nobody's releasing a game on
• 53:55
  December 31st. Let's go check the calendar.
• 53:58
  Shall we six days after Christmas?
• 54:02
  Said best time. Let's go.
• 54:03
  Saturday, Saturday December 31st is a Saturday.
• 54:09
  You think they're releasing it Saturday?
• 54:11
  Or do you think they're even going to release it on the 27th,
• 54:14
  which is the Tuesday? You know?
• 54:16
  So you have Christmas and you have a day off in lieu and you
• 54:19
  show Oh up and then you go like, hey guys, you guys get to play
• 54:25
  on the 27th but guess what? We miss our Christmas sales and
• 54:31
  we're going to be away for New Year's.
• 54:34
  No, the 31st is not a realistic or even meant to be the release
• 54:41
  date. They why I would be like, oh
• 54:43
  good, we got it together and we'll release it ahead of that
• 54:47
  likely. Likely.
• 54:50
  We're going to see it shift and get pushed back.
• 54:53
  I like I don't get this is just this is somebody I hate saying
• 55:00
  this is Corporate greed, but this is definitely a directive
• 55:03
  that was put pushed on to say, you need to have this out before
• 55:07
  the end of the year and they're like, fine, malicious
• 55:10
  compliance. That is technically before the
• 55:12
  end of the year. Yeah.
• 55:14
  Yeah that's exactly. That is New Year's Eve.
• 55:18
  We're not Eating this on New Year's Eve. 100% not getting out
• 55:21
  of New Year's Eve, guaranteed either.
• 55:23
  This is coming out two weeks before Christmas or it is
• 55:26
  getting pushed into 2023. That would be Tuesday, December
• 55:30
  6th. Yeah.
• 55:32
  Or in North America, Wednesday, December 7.
• 55:36
  You know what they always do? These like, 24-hour launch
• 55:41
  Windows, where it's like, hey, it's going live sort of thing.
• 55:45
  So there you go. And it would likely not be
• 55:48
  during a maintenance period. You're likely to see the
• 55:50
  maintenance period happen, they make sure everything's good and
• 55:53
  then they start sending it, so maybe Thursday, December 8.
• 55:59
  Yeah, maybe, maybe, good grief. We do we do have a question from
• 56:06
  from a listener and dear friend of the show.
• 56:11
  Man, if you want to, you want to take that one.
• 56:13
  So this is from Shanty, man. Chanting man is asking.
• 56:17
  Do you feel like release Seeing before the years and will give
• 56:20
  us a rushed less than optimal expansion.
• 56:24
  I was hoping for a return to its ready when it's ready, even if
• 56:28
  it means more time and shadowlands Okay, so definitely
• 56:33
  I've been speaking about this. I would love for them to do.
• 56:37
  It's all ready when it's ready, sort of thing.
• 56:39
  I just think again that this was a top down its directive.
• 56:46
  So do I think it's going to be rushed.
• 56:50
  Yeah, I'm really worried that it's going to be rushed more
• 56:53
  than that. I don't think it's going to be
• 56:56
  that the expansion itself is going to be poor for its rush in
• 57:02
  in that they didn't give them enough time.
• 57:04
  I am worried about just absolute crunch.
• 57:08
  That is going to start being not mandatory, but highly encourage
• 57:15
  the, the people, the people who are working on this game are
• 57:21
  just as if not more. Passionate about this game.
• 57:27
  They want the game to be good. I don't understand when people
• 57:31
  talk about, like, fun detected, or any of those stupid memes.
• 57:36
  That's not how these guys develop the game, they truly
• 57:41
  play. And enjoy the game, just like we
• 57:43
  do and try and make a great game.
• 57:46
  So they're going to put extra time to get stuff done.
• 57:50
  The, the reason that we have the stuff that happens is that they
• 57:54
  go Okay, we've run out of time and we have to truncate stuff,
• 58:01
  right? They don't want to leave it on
• 58:03
  The Cutting Room floor, but they they are forced to a date like
• 58:06
  December 31st, 2022 and they go okay here we're going to put
• 58:11
  this out, but this other thing isn't going to come right away.
• 58:17
  We put out 9.2 but we're not going to put in this Arena
• 58:21
  because we couldn't get it working.
• 58:23
  This would be so much fun. It Such a great idea.
• 58:26
  We couldn't make it work. So we're going to put it off.
• 58:29
  It's things like that that are going to happen.
• 58:33
  We're going to have this release and you're going to have the
• 58:35
  leveling experience. But season one isn't going to
• 58:40
  start until January 26 so that we can put out a 10 point 0.5,
• 58:49
  patch, or 10.0 0.0 to patch, whatever it is to make sure that
• 58:55
  the rate stuff is now set up and we're going to have testing
• 58:59
  while the game is technically live for these raid bosses
• 59:03
  because this is how we can still commit to this date and get the
• 59:07
  get it out but we can still ensure that it's as good as
• 59:13
  possible. And what does that mean?
• 59:15
  Yeah they get their game out on the time where yet a somewhat
• 59:19
  delayed. Raid raid experience which
• 59:23
  honestly delaying by month, I think is not even that bad for a
• 59:26
  rate experience. So people can level at their own
• 59:28
  rate and there are groups of people who don't level up and
• 59:32
  make happen the first 11 hours, like some crazy people on this
• 59:35
  show. Olivia, not sending you any
• 59:37
  shade but then we we get things where it's it's just people get
• 59:49
  stressed, they work through on this and we and they have to
• 59:52
  adjust the stuff and then we get a delayed core Thea because they
• 59:57
  had to spend time after the release fixing the initial
• 1:00:03
  release instead of working. On the next release, we get a,
• 1:00:06
  we get Adelaide Arena which then becomes like, actually we
• 1:00:09
  couldn't get this working, which is what happens with the arena
• 1:00:13
  That was supposed to cut one of the Arena's.
• 1:00:14
  Those two Arenas with 9.2 right now.
• 1:00:17
  Those to come with 9.2. That's the sort of thing we get
• 1:00:20
  cut content. Think about what we got.
• 1:00:25
  And honestly, we're going to we're going to start segueing
• 1:00:27
  into like the offerings that they have.
• 1:00:30
  But when we got shadowlands, Right, they didn't give us that
• 1:00:38
  Prix story events, like we got with BFA, right?
• 1:00:44
  Where we got a little bit of story.
• 1:00:47
  Story ahead. Remember going into Legion you
• 1:00:51
  could day one create the Demon Hunter and do the Demon Hunter
• 1:00:57
  starting experience and then take that out and do the legion
• 1:01:01
  invasions and that was a great thing and people Cool man.
• 1:01:04
  This is a great pre-order bonus. Yeah.
• 1:01:08
  Right? Because it gave you something
• 1:01:09
  new to do. Sure.
• 1:01:10
  And the the end it didn't hurt that you got to do that
• 1:01:14
  fantastic quick, leveling stuff with a bunch of it with a bunch
• 1:01:17
  of people when they did the legion invasions all over the
• 1:01:20
  place, right? We also little bit weeks ahead,
• 1:01:26
  had the pre expansion events, which was the invasion of the
• 1:01:30
  broken. Sure.
• 1:01:32
  And that was amazing. And all the conversation we had
• 1:01:35
  with that was amazing launch. For BFA.
• 1:01:41
  We got, you get to use these, these Allied races, and you get
• 1:01:45
  to, you get those unlocked. And so people got to do that.
• 1:01:50
  And then we got the starting experience which was the burning
• 1:01:56
  of teldrassil into the Were thorns.
• 1:02:03
  And then we had the actual starting experience which was
• 1:02:06
  like you know the chasing its are going into.
• 1:02:12
  I figure what the alliance one was but I'm remembering the
• 1:02:14
  word. One of freeing Kalonji from the
• 1:02:17
  dungeon think it was, is it Flynn?
• 1:02:22
  I think we were going and breaking Flynn.
• 1:02:25
  Fairway. No.
• 1:02:26
  Because that's when you actually get to the new zones.
• 1:02:29
  Oh gosh maybe. I you know what I don't recall
• 1:02:33
  maybe that was actually just part of life.
• 1:02:36
  Yeah I remember I remember it was so we were chasing down.
• 1:02:42
  Like it was the the same thing. Like it was two sides of the
• 1:02:47
  same story where like it was the tulagi, you know, showing up but
• 1:02:52
  it was it was we were chasing chasing down Sylvanas like that,
• 1:02:59
  that's the mission that we got sent on was to chase down
• 1:03:01
  Sylvanas and then to laundry shows up and he's like, no.
• 1:03:04
  And That's kind of how that played out, but it was still
• 1:03:09
  clear call. Yeah, that one I'm strangely, is
• 1:03:12
  the most recent and I'm still the most foggiest about it, but
• 1:03:16
  like, it's things like that. It's the reclaiming, no more on
• 1:03:22
  know, Morgan and reclaiming, the echo, Isles ahead of cataclysm,
• 1:03:27
  right, that those sort of things, those sort of events
• 1:03:31
  that were, like, up until the pre patch, you can do this.
• 1:03:36
  Remember Orgrimmar burning and you having like to like fight
• 1:03:39
  off the flame Elementals before we had cataclysm right?
• 1:03:44
  Yeah that was those sort of events I haven't seen any any
• 1:03:49
  mention of those, all right? And that's why I'm like, okay,
• 1:03:53
  this doesn't seem the same. This hasn't seemed the same and
• 1:03:57
  I haven't seen a lot of things like that, and it's a similar to
• 1:04:01
  the conversation where we were talking about how we haven't
• 1:04:04
  seen a lot of I guess sort of extras value adds that we
• 1:04:10
  normally get in terms of shadowlands like we haven't seen
• 1:04:14
  a Brawler's Guild. We just finally at the end of
• 1:04:17
  the expansion, got the Heritage for the Dark Iron Dwarves and
• 1:04:23
  for the blood else in BFA. We are getting Heritage every
• 1:04:28
  Point 5 patch every small patch. We're getting something like
• 1:04:31
  that. Mhm, so I'm worried that this
• 1:04:37
  streamline trim down sort of thing is continuing as we're
• 1:04:41
  going through one, still dealing with a pandemic and to were
• 1:04:49
  dealing with blizzard offices. Having some turnover where I
• 1:04:53
  constantly am seeing on Twitter. People stepping away from the
• 1:04:56
  company and obviously new people being hired.
• 1:04:59
  But those people have to be on-boarded onboarding is not an
• 1:05:02
  instantaneous process requires somebody.
• 1:05:05
  To eat to bring them up to speed and that person who's bringing
• 1:05:08
  them up to speed is going slower than they normally would.
• 1:05:11
  Because they have to explain it because they have to make sure
• 1:05:14
  that their mentoring correctly, the games nearly 20 years old,
• 1:05:20
  which means that it has languages upon languages
• 1:05:24
  spaghetti together. It's not a matter of just
• 1:05:28
  quickly, adding something you have to make sure that when you
• 1:05:30
  add it, you don't suddenly break something else.
• 1:05:34
  Even Something. As like faction barriers.
• 1:05:38
  How is something that they couldn't put in all together or
• 1:05:42
  sorry? Couldn't take out all together
• 1:05:43
  in a single patch without several things.
• 1:05:46
  Breaking to this day, go into a go into a cross faction group
• 1:05:52
  and you can only whisper people on your own faction.
• 1:05:54
  You still can't whisper people on the opposite faction.
• 1:05:57
  Yep you can't create guilds. Yes, they're talking about that
• 1:06:00
  but the guilds are is a completely different kettle of
• 1:06:03
  fish that they're looking at for So we'll see how this goes.
• 1:06:09
  I'm hoping that the core foundational experience that
• 1:06:14
  they're that they're promising. The build in Dragon flight, is
• 1:06:19
  put together in a great way and that it is ready on time.
• 1:06:24
  But no Shanty, I don't think we're at a situation where it's
• 1:06:28
  going to be, it's ready when it's ready.
• 1:06:31
  Yeah, yeah, this is most certainly not.
• 1:06:34
  It's ready when it's ready. But that being said, pre-orders
• 1:06:39
  are now available. You can go get a, you can go get
• 1:06:46
  it, tangled Dreamweaver. That amount looks amazing
• 1:06:53
  doesn't so mad about it. It does.
• 1:06:58
  I'm very I'm upset about it. Things.
• 1:07:02
  We wait, the tangle Dreamweaver isn't in every isn't it every
• 1:07:06
  pack right there? Every level of the expansion.
• 1:07:09
  You can buy, right? No, it's not.
• 1:07:12
  So it's not available in the base.
• 1:07:14
  So here I'm going to, I'm going to go through it.
• 1:07:16
  Yeah walk me through it, go ahead.
• 1:07:17
  So everyone that pre-orders for $50 so while technically 4999
• 1:07:23
  but $50 you get dragged through volkers notable that they put
• 1:07:30
  this in. There may be unavailable or will
• 1:07:35
  be available at or before launch of the of the expansion as a
• 1:07:41
  whole. So may or may not be included in
• 1:07:45
  the pre patch is the ability to create and level a drive-through
• 1:07:48
  poker. So that's, you know, that's,
• 1:07:52
  that's that and then you get you get a like a lock pet, like a
• 1:08:00
  merlic. Cause I think is the name of it,
• 1:08:03
  but it's basically just alexstrasza and more like, form
• 1:08:07
  whatever you do. Don't want to get this.
• 1:08:09
  Actually the first Morlock, that, that I think looks cool.
• 1:08:13
  I'm sorry, Somewhere Out There, queen of murlocs, heard this and
• 1:08:16
  no coming to track me down. I goofed I goofed but that is
• 1:08:20
  only in the heroic Edition. That's nothing pet.
• 1:08:23
  It's the tracks pet that's in the face.
• 1:08:25
  That's correct. That's correct.
• 1:08:27
  It is it is a different pet entirely I get them mixed up, my
• 1:08:30
  apologies. In the heroic version, which you
• 1:08:32
  can get for a I believe with 6999 is the the price point on
• 1:08:38
  that. Another $10 on top.
• 1:08:40
  Yeah. Yeah so that one you get you get
• 1:08:46
  everything in the base. The base level plus you get the
• 1:08:51
  tangle dream Dreamweaver Mount and murkiest rasa which both of
• 1:08:57
  those are added to your account immediately they are they are
• 1:09:02
  added in as soon as you create the purchase so you can go pre
• 1:09:05
  purchase this and get that mount and Marcus rasa immediately.
• 1:09:09
  Then Oh, and also in the, in the heroic addition, you get a 60
• 1:09:17
  levels among character boost. Yeah.
• 1:09:20
  So, you know, more more incentive to get that.
• 1:09:23
  Which I was, you know, for a, for a mount looks that good + a
• 1:09:29
  level 60 boost that's that's worth 10 bucks to me.
• 1:09:32
  Sure sure. Why not you come?
• 1:09:34
  That's use a level based, right? Yeah 100%.
• 1:09:38
  I will use that but then there's The Epic version which is eighty
• 1:09:43
  nine, ninety nine, which is a 20 dollar boost up from the heroic
• 1:09:47
  version and it includes a Hearthstone effect.
• 1:09:54
  So it's a toy like like we've seen, you know, they added a
• 1:09:58
  whole bunch for, for the seasonal events.
• 1:10:01
  There's a bunch of different effects that you can get for
• 1:10:03
  your Hearthstone but it's the time Walker's is is what is
• 1:10:06
  being added. Plus you get a Helm transmog
• 1:10:10
  called the Diadem of the spell keeper, which looks ugly.
• 1:10:16
  My opinion. Okay.
• 1:10:17
  It is Helm transmog. Apparently.
• 1:10:19
  Look, ugly. Remember remember back W old
• 1:10:22
  Helms that they put into the store for 15 bucks, a pop right?
• 1:10:27
  For me, will truly truly awful. But then, then and this is
• 1:10:34
  something that I have written in the show notes that I am going
• 1:10:38
  to scream very loudly about this.
• 1:10:40
  I mean, I won't work for sure. I won't burst anyone's your
• 1:10:43
  drums here in the recording, that'll be that'll be, you know
• 1:10:46
  later but wings of Awakening to it's a back slot transmog, that
• 1:10:54
  is all five colors of the dragonflights that you can just
• 1:10:58
  slap their wings on your back. Just imagine Taliesin doing the
• 1:11:04
  e. That's basically what you're
• 1:11:05
  seeing right here. That's what you're seeing right
• 1:11:07
  here. No no that no I'm mad mad
• 1:11:10
  because I'm not going to Spend nine dollars on that I'm not
• 1:11:13
  good. That's not weird about this.
• 1:11:15
  Most to me were you, were you already going to get the heroic
• 1:11:18
  addition because you wanted that mount for 10 bucks.
• 1:11:21
  It's not for the mail, but it's, but it's the.
• 1:11:23
  It's the cumulative value of everything that is, is appealing
• 1:11:26
  to me for the eighty dollar or the not even the queen isn't.
• 1:11:31
  No, no $70 6999. So 70 dollar version of this.
• 1:11:36
  It's the is the cumulative value of.
• 1:11:38
  I'm getting the expansion, plus a level 60 character boost A red
• 1:11:42
  Mount, that's worth $70 to me. $20 on top of that is not worth
• 1:11:49
  getting a her. So needs and time,
• 1:11:52
  congratulations, you it's five dollars on top.
• 1:11:54
  Okay, whatever. What I'm saying, it's just
• 1:11:58
  deduct the $30 that, you know, you were going to have to pay
• 1:12:01
  the 30 days that you know, you're going to get anyways.
• 1:12:05
  But it's not even that because because I have a yearly
• 1:12:09
  subscription Okay, so do the math, like 12 bucks?
• 1:12:14
  Sure. So it's I'm spending $8 On These
• 1:12:18
  Wings dollars of one of those wings.
• 1:12:21
  Those wings were alone for eight bucks.
• 1:12:22
  He would buy them. And, you know, you would.
• 1:12:24
  But here's the only word, stop lying to yourself but not lying
• 1:12:27
  to our audience. But here's the thing, I don't
• 1:12:32
  know, that's enough that here's what, I don't want the helm, I
• 1:12:35
  don't want the helm on lockdown. My transmog.
• 1:12:38
  I don't want access to it. And I can't I can't deny any
• 1:12:43
  part of the pre-order bonus. I can't.
• 1:12:45
  I can't say nah. I don't want that.
• 1:12:47
  It's just included. It just becomes unlocked of my
• 1:12:50
  heart and I have to look at it for a Hearthstone.
• 1:12:53
  They're cool, little Hearthstone effect.
• 1:12:56
  Yeah. But I've already got the ones
• 1:12:57
  that I think look cool and that one doesn't look cool to me so I
• 1:13:00
  don't want it. I haven't seen it.
• 1:13:03
  Is there a video where we see it?
• 1:13:04
  That mean there's like there's like a little like a little you
• 1:13:09
  know, there's a still image. Of someone Castle image means
• 1:13:13
  nothing. Yeah, exactly, exactly.
• 1:13:15
  So I don't know if it's gonna look cool or not, but you can't
• 1:13:18
  see that. You can't put it in either one,
• 1:13:21
  either camp. But I'll okay.
• 1:13:25
  How about this? I'll hold off on purchasing.
• 1:13:28
  You're upgrading to the to the Epic version until I see what
• 1:13:31
  the hard Stone looks like. And if it's cool I'll go ahead
• 1:13:34
  and upgrade how about that as you can because you can do that
• 1:13:37
  as well. But that's not the only
• 1:13:41
  additions that are here because those are also in comping so
• 1:13:46
  accompanied by collector's edition.
• 1:13:49
  So there is the complete collection heroic do In which
• 1:13:53
  has everything that the base has, but then also includes the
• 1:13:59
  shadowlands heroic Edition, which is as encircled worm and
• 1:14:02
  all of that stuff that you had from before, right?
• 1:14:06
  The to character verse for you all to holics 30 days of game
• 1:14:11
  time, the mount the pets, all they're all there for you, you
• 1:14:18
  can then go with the complete collection epic Edition, which
• 1:14:23
  Again, everything from before the heroic Shadow lands with the
• 1:14:26
  thing to character boost 60 days worth of game time.
• 1:14:31
  The the mounts, the pets, the wings are Awakening live the
• 1:14:37
  wings of Awakening, you can't make me do it.
• 1:14:40
  The diadem of the spell keeper, which is the crown that you
• 1:14:46
  don't like that was once worn by sindragosa herself.
• 1:14:49
  Have you seen this on a worgen? We broken move.
• 1:15:02
  You keep saying that to me? We Broken Live.
• 1:15:07
  All right, the Hearthstone and the pet and then of course, that
• 1:15:15
  doesn't even include physical conditions, which include a
• 1:15:19
  bunch of other stuff there. Oh, So many different skus and
• 1:15:27
  they have the little cross chart of stuff.
• 1:15:30
  So for you right now, you're looking at the heroic Edition,
• 1:15:34
  that's where we're at right now, right?
• 1:15:36
  That's where I'm at right now. Spending spending $70 on this
• 1:15:40
  game for for a mountain. I'm just going to say that like,
• 1:15:50
  I'm probably just gonna like dump a bunch of gold and get the
• 1:15:54
  Epic Edition. Yeah, but I mean, that's an
• 1:15:56
  option too. I do not have that option
• 1:15:59
  available to me. So, you know, are you sure you
• 1:16:02
  don't? Are you sure you don't?
• 1:16:05
  Yeah. Well you know until they until
• 1:16:08
  they unlock the ability for me to pay for game time with
• 1:16:11
  classic. Wow that's out.
• 1:16:14
  So I think it was harder to make gold.
• 1:16:17
  In classic. Wow.
• 1:16:19
  So it was incredibly difficult. Yeah.
• 1:16:23
  So I don't understand what you're talking about.
• 1:16:25
  Yeah. But either way, either way, the
• 1:16:28
  point that we're going to in talking about all of these
• 1:16:33
  because you can go, you can go look at the website.
• 1:16:35
  You can go look at Battle debt dotnet and look at the store and
• 1:16:38
  see what all the prices are and what all you're going to get.
• 1:16:41
  But we're talking about it specifically because this is the
• 1:16:46
  most expensive. Of WoW expansion that we've had
• 1:16:50
  to date. Yeah.
• 1:16:52
  Which, I mean, there is, you know, to be expected with, you
• 1:16:55
  know, with the rate of inflation with, you know, you know, over
• 1:16:58
  time things get more expensive, it costs more to make them look
• 1:17:02
  to make the game. It costs more to to, you know,
• 1:17:05
  run operations. It's kind of expected that there
• 1:17:10
  will be some increase in in cost for playing the game over time.
• 1:17:16
  I mean okay, I cleared my Throat there.
• 1:17:18
  I cleared my throat you did because because when you say
• 1:17:21
  inflation and I'm not gonna go into a rant over inflation, but
• 1:17:25
  I am going to say that this is Activision Blizzard who had
• 1:17:30
  their most profitable year ever? How many times I go?
• 1:17:33
  And then cut their operational costs.
• 1:17:36
  They're getting enough money. They don't need to extort an
• 1:17:39
  another 10 bucks on top per level into this compared, to
• 1:17:45
  Shadow ends the entire A reason we even had the base Edition and
• 1:17:49
  shadowlands was they took out the character boost and they
• 1:17:53
  dropped it by ten bucks. Now, one expansion later they
• 1:17:57
  put the 10 bucks back in but they don't give me the Boost.
• 1:18:01
  What is that? You cannot tell me that
• 1:18:04
  inflation goes 40 to 50, which means that they've done a 25
• 1:18:09
  percent inflation in two years. I don't think that's how
• 1:18:13
  inflation really works. No.
• 1:18:15
  Right. And I'm not gonna go into a rant
• 1:18:17
  over inflation but no, no, don't tell me this is inflation carry
• 1:18:21
  on? No, I'm not saying that it is
• 1:18:23
  inflation. I'm saying that is that is
• 1:18:27
  something that logically you could you could make sense of is
• 1:18:31
  that over time, think anybody's listening To this anybody who
• 1:18:35
  listens? This will tell you that you said
• 1:18:36
  inflation or be able to rewind 30 seconds and find you saying
• 1:18:42
  inflation, you brought enough, not me.
• 1:18:45
  Fair. Fair, but regardless it is the
• 1:18:51
  most expensive expansion and notable notable to the
• 1:18:56
  comparison with shadowlands because there is a lot less on
• 1:19:00
  the box for this expansion than there was going into industry at
• 1:19:05
  a lives because shadowlands, they were touting their, you're
• 1:19:07
  gonna have tour, guess, you're going to have all these, all
• 1:19:09
  these other features we can have the renowned system put in all
• 1:19:13
  of these, all of these activities at all. things that
• 1:19:17
  are being promised for the game in shadowlands being brought
• 1:19:22
  that your money was going down for and almost none of that.
• 1:19:31
  Like the rhesus and an hour talking about how horrible.
• 1:19:35
  So many of those features were in fact that they're not being
• 1:19:38
  promised for my play experience is a bonus to me but I mean it
• 1:19:44
  is good, it is good. But just like looking at the
• 1:19:46
  like if you put them side by side there's like here's a whole
• 1:19:49
  bunch of stuff that you're getting with shadowlands and
• 1:19:51
  it's 50 bucks and here's a whole bunch of stuff that you're
• 1:19:56
  getting or not a whole bunch of stuff that I should say, not a
• 1:19:59
  whole bunch of stuff that you're getting with dragonflight and It
• 1:20:02
  is $10, Mark, please. Thank you.
• 1:20:05
  It just it doesn't look good. It doesn't.
• 1:20:09
  But I will say that. Once you go beyond the base
• 1:20:12
  addition, they are actually adding value stuff that wasn't
• 1:20:16
  in the shadowlands stuff. We're getting two separate pets,
• 1:20:22
  pets, didn't initially show up on the base addition, I believe
• 1:20:27
  it was like you get. Did it have a transmog that you
• 1:20:30
  got when you I ordered for shadowlands, we'd have to go
• 1:20:33
  back and check with the I think that came with the heroic
• 1:20:36
  version. I think that was the the first
• 1:20:38
  step upgrade was. You can transmog and the source
• 1:20:41
  old worm I think and then Source, old worm pets.
• 1:20:44
  I feel have a narrower application audience in World of
• 1:20:49
  Warcraft, but you get to pets. When you step up you get a
• 1:20:54
  better amount. I'm sorry that encircled worm
• 1:20:56
  may this this dragon. Chef's kiss to quote live chefs
• 1:21:05
  kiss right. Kind of pine cone for a tail and
• 1:21:10
  the the horns are like tree branches and like and the the
• 1:21:16
  mound special EJ put up a image of it.
• 1:21:21
  And that's the first image I saw it.
• 1:21:22
  I was like, okay, all right then, so get like there's stuff
• 1:21:28
  in here. The I honestly think that if Are
• 1:21:30
  going to jump up to the heroic Edition and you do anything with
• 1:21:35
  your account. The Epic addition, almost pays
• 1:21:39
  back itself and game time. Yeah.
• 1:21:42
  So yeah, we'll say, anyways, they are asking for more money.
• 1:21:46
  There's some value in there. Hopefully, they need to start
• 1:21:51
  valuing gameplay in there because I do believe that When
• 1:21:57
  we were able to unlock the Allied races going from
• 1:22:02
  Shadowland, so you're either going from Legion to be fa, that
• 1:22:07
  was a good value proposition of. Like, here's some story and
• 1:22:11
  here's some new ways of playing the characters you have that you
• 1:22:14
  can do and like leveling those up to get their Heritage armor,
• 1:22:19
  was an experience and did require time investment.
• 1:22:24
  So that to me is more what I would like to.
• 1:22:27
  In future pre-order bonuses and future pre system.
• 1:22:36
  Patch stuff that they could put in. yeah, but We'll have to
• 1:22:45
  sell. We glad to see ya.
• 1:22:46
  We get the actual expansion what's actually in there or, you
• 1:22:49
  know, see what they have in the beta in store for us because we
• 1:22:52
  still have no clue when that's even coming.
• 1:22:54
  So but speaking of beta, We do have one beta available to us
• 1:23:01
  right now and that's the Wrath classic beta.
• 1:23:04
  Yeah, this is the tale of two betas that can be the show title
• 1:23:08
  this week. All right, that's it.
• 1:23:10
  That's going to be the show title this week.
• 1:23:15
  One, that doesn't necessarily exist yet, but no weed, we got
• 1:23:19
  the Wrath beta this week. It started open up.
• 1:23:22
  They started sending out invites.
• 1:23:24
  For that and ho boy, but we have a lot of stuff we have so much
• 1:23:32
  so much. I'm sorry live to chew through
• 1:23:34
  but not nearly enough time that I went to get through and
• 1:23:39
  dedicate to it. Because I am genuinely genuinely
• 1:23:42
  very, very excited for wrath classic.
• 1:23:44
  As you can tell by my what I was talking about the top of the
• 1:23:47
  show. Sorry live, not live because
• 1:23:49
  this is going to be recorded live.
• 1:23:52
  I know you want to dedicate time to this.
• 1:23:54
  Already at an hour and a half here.
• 1:23:56
  Would you like to do a special show?
• 1:23:58
  We can record later this week where we talk in depth about the
• 1:24:02
  Wrath classic. Absolutely.
• 1:24:04
  All right, once there's there will be a special release later
• 1:24:08
  this week where we will talk about wrath classic.
• 1:24:10
  You'll get two episodes this week especially since next
• 1:24:14
  weekend I'm going to be out of town for hey it's Canada Day and
• 1:24:20
  Independence Day and my birthday.
• 1:24:23
  So we're going to be Going through and doing that sort of
• 1:24:25
  stuff. So we will have a special
• 1:24:28
  episode later this week for now, though.
• 1:24:31
  Do you want to take that last viewer mail?
• 1:24:34
  Absolutely. Which of course of course if you
• 1:24:37
  want to send us an email you can do.
• 1:24:39
  So by sending an email to fast podcast at gmail.com or you can
• 1:24:44
  jump in our Discord and ask question.
• 1:24:46
  They're like Shanty man did earlier that we entered Shades
• 1:24:51
  question and this question which comes from rack?
• 1:24:54
  Will wreck will ask, do you think I have too high of an
• 1:24:59
  expectation? When joining a community rate is
• 1:25:02
  basically a pug. The people seemed mature raid
• 1:25:05
  leaders spoke of expecting a child.
• 1:25:08
  We progressed a few bosses without incident, and then I did
• 1:25:11
  the unthinkable action of using a soul Stone mid-fight, It was
• 1:25:17
  the wrong thing to do. But does it really weren't the
• 1:25:22
  expletives and shaming that occurred if that berating had
• 1:25:27
  happened in a workplace or school yard, it would be
• 1:25:30
  unacceptable. It concerns me the most that
• 1:25:34
  this person had no understanding of why I would not want to
• 1:25:38
  continue to raid with them. I'm an older adult cannot fathom
• 1:25:43
  how this is acceptable behavior and would appreciate your
• 1:25:46
  thoughts. Cheers, well, rock wool.
• 1:25:50
  I would like to start by saying you absolutely did the right
• 1:25:56
  thing by removing yourself from that situation by saying.
• 1:26:00
  Okay this isn't for me, I'm done here.
• 1:26:03
  Have a good have a good, you know, rest of your your day,
• 1:26:07
  where this relationship is now over that was that was the right
• 1:26:12
  call. 100% because if you're putting yourself into into any
• 1:26:17
  social situation that makes you uncomfortable any social Social
• 1:26:20
  situation that that you do not want to be in the best thing to
• 1:26:27
  do, is to remove yourself from that situation, if you can.
• 1:26:31
  That being said, a lot of players in this game rely on pug
• 1:26:36
  groups, they rely on pick up groups, which I said pug groups,
• 1:26:41
  but pick up group. So I just said, pug groups
• 1:26:43
  groups. But to my point, A lot of
• 1:26:50
  people, a lot of people rely on pugs in order to experience the
• 1:26:54
  in-game content that is available.
• 1:26:56
  And there is there is a lot of trepidation that has developed
• 1:27:02
  in players over the years because of kind of, kind of, not
• 1:27:07
  really unchecked toxicity, but just toxicity in general of
• 1:27:12
  players expecting everyone to play the game perfectly all the
• 1:27:16
  time and If you're going into a, a group that already already
• 1:27:25
  exist, they already have a dynamic and you're going in as a
• 1:27:28
  pug or you're going into a group.
• 1:27:30
  That's like maybe it's like two different groups that are kind
• 1:27:33
  of just joining together for the night because they, you know,
• 1:27:37
  they had eight people and we had seven people and what do you
• 1:27:40
  know, we can now read together and for will open up we'll put
• 1:27:44
  it on the the looking for group Tool.
• 1:27:48
  And just pull in a couple extra people just to fill out numbers.
• 1:27:55
  In, in those situations, you're going into already established
• 1:27:59
  Dynamics. And it is kind of on the group
• 1:28:05
  to make sure that the people that they're bringing in our are
• 1:28:10
  made to feel welcome that they're, you know, that the
• 1:28:13
  expectations are set from the outset and there's kind of like
• 1:28:18
  a social contract that goes along with stepping into a group
• 1:28:24
  that Already exists in order for you to participate in whatever
• 1:28:29
  activity you're going into, whether it's writing, whether
• 1:28:31
  it's Mythic plus, whether it's, you know, rated, PVP anything
• 1:28:36
  any situation you can be in the, there needs to be kind of an
• 1:28:40
  expectation set. So my advice to you, my advice
• 1:28:44
  going forward is to make sure that when you're going into a
• 1:28:48
  group, you're having a conversation with a group leader
• 1:28:51
  to understand what the expectations are.
• 1:28:54
  You're going in, if you're, if you're playing a class, like,
• 1:28:58
  warlock, that has Soul Stone. You're making sure that you
• 1:29:03
  understand what the expectations are for.
• 1:29:05
  That ask questions, like, it doesn't really hurt to ask
• 1:29:10
  questions and depending on the answers that you get to, those
• 1:29:13
  questions can be very informative on how you should
• 1:29:19
  approach that group or help you decide.
• 1:29:22
  If that is a group that you even want to To attempt to play with.
• 1:29:27
  Because if you ask a question like hey, when do you want Soul
• 1:29:31
  stones? Used, do you want to call for
• 1:29:33
  them or am I? Okay to just use them whenever
• 1:29:36
  then depending on their answer? If they, you know, give you some
• 1:29:39
  glib answer, then, you know you can, you can go from there with
• 1:29:45
  that information and You know, make make a decision based on
• 1:29:51
  that, but you have to have that conversation.
• 1:29:53
  You have to, you have to be willing to ask the questions in
• 1:29:57
  order to make sure that everyone is understanding of what the
• 1:30:02
  expectations are for that. And if you if you don't have
• 1:30:08
  those conversations, then things are going to happen.
• 1:30:12
  You're going to have situations like this where you use your
• 1:30:15
  soul Stone and someone didn't like that and made it very well
• 1:30:19
  known to you that that they were very upset with, with you, using
• 1:30:26
  your soul Stone and it place it didn't make sense for them
• 1:30:30
  there. Their behavior then this is,
• 1:30:32
  this is all, you know, not to excuse their behavior because
• 1:30:35
  you know, Cursing at someone berating someone like
• 1:30:39
  disproportionately is not okay, like that's 100% not.
• 1:30:44
  Okay and that's why the top of this I said, you, you absolutely
• 1:30:46
  did the right thing by saying I'm not gonna continue with you.
• 1:30:51
  But again, all that is that is a preventable thing of like
• 1:30:55
  communication and setting. Expectations is a thing that
• 1:31:02
  should be achieved. In situations like this?
• 1:31:08
  Yeah, I agree with both of lives points, and it has to be two
• 1:31:13
  points because there's two parts to this, right?
• 1:31:16
  Yeah. There is the mistake you made
• 1:31:18
  and the reaction to it when you are in groups and you don't know
• 1:31:22
  everything that's going on. Communicate, every time I jump
• 1:31:26
  into a group whether it's doing Mythic Plus on a dungeon.
• 1:31:30
  I've done 20 different times before I communicate.
• 1:31:33
  Hey, are we doing a big pool at the start?
• 1:31:36
  When do you guys want lust just those sort of questions in raid,
• 1:31:39
  groups irate with several different groups.
• 1:31:42
  And I was reading with get your crap together and you guys know
• 1:31:46
  great, you get your crap together, I've read with them
• 1:31:48
  for years and I was reading with them and we're going against and
• 1:31:52
  win and we're in the The first intermission.
• 1:31:55
  And here you have, we not hit lust yet.
• 1:31:58
  Why haven't we hit? What lost yet?
• 1:32:00
  Okay, they've got a plan. I didn't communicate with them
• 1:32:03
  and then the raid, leader goes, hey, sorry, somebody hit lust.
• 1:32:07
  And I'm like okay that's when they did it, right?
• 1:32:09
  I thought like you should do it and I was correct.
• 1:32:12
  But I wasn't going to press it, because it affects more than
• 1:32:15
  just me much like you using one of the battle Reza's does.
• 1:32:19
  And if they come at me afterwards, right?
• 1:32:22
  I get the Jaws, mom voice, right?
• 1:32:24
  Right, I guess go. I don't I didn't know.
• 1:32:27
  I'm just guessing here if you want me to do that.
• 1:32:29
  I will do that but it's easy enough to say hey I didn't know
• 1:32:35
  but it's better to ask for permission.
• 1:32:39
  Then to beg for forgiveness, talk ahead of time, set a
• 1:32:43
  standard. I will walk into groups and I
• 1:32:46
  will say, I will not hit bloodlust unless it's called for
• 1:32:50
  I have gone into too many groups that use it at where X no call
• 1:32:54
  for Tell me now or I won't touch it.
• 1:32:56
  And that is me, setting an expectation.
• 1:32:59
  I'm not even asking a question. I'm telling them what how it is?
• 1:33:02
  Yeah, you can do that. And genuinely not using a raid
• 1:33:07
  wide utility would be the better way of going about it.
• 1:33:11
  So that's in terms of raid use and talking about things ahead
• 1:33:15
  of time. In terms of the reaction, there
• 1:33:19
  are several things you can do and walking away and saying you
• 1:33:23
  don't want to read with them. Um anymore, I think is a matter
• 1:33:27
  of how severe it was and how quickly it was addressed.
• 1:33:32
  If somebody starts a tirade on me, I have enough in myself to
• 1:33:38
  be enough constantly. Like, what are you doing?
• 1:33:42
  Like dude, just say sorry. Like I've hit one place at the
• 1:33:46
  wrong time and I'm like I fat Palm that.
• 1:33:48
  I'm sorry, guys, I slipped, I had my fingers in the wrong
• 1:33:51
  place, whatever he excuse, it happens.
• 1:33:54
  To the best into the worst, okay?
• 1:33:57
  We'll make up for it or call the white whatever.
• 1:33:59
  Somebody starts Brady. I'm like what are you doing?
• 1:34:02
  Like it was a mistake. Drop it, let's reset and go.
• 1:34:05
  If they continue, go ahead, leave group, be like, dude, I
• 1:34:09
  ain't dealing with that step away.
• 1:34:12
  If they come back to you and they apologized and you can have
• 1:34:15
  that dialogue and fix it, so be it, if they repeatedly do it and
• 1:34:20
  you go, I have no patience for that kind of attitude.
• 1:34:24
  That kind of treatment. I don't know where you think you
• 1:34:27
  can do that, but you cannot do that to me and you step away.
• 1:34:31
  So be it so long but I think you should have that conversation
• 1:34:35
  with people again Communications better.
• 1:34:37
  If something is bothering you it is better to talk about it
• 1:34:42
  immediately to at least address it so that they know why then to
• 1:34:48
  bottle it up and maybe it comes across and something else,
• 1:34:51
  totally unrelated, or maybe it comes with something.
• 1:34:54
  Somewhat related. But not not even proportionate
• 1:34:58
  to what happened and that could be happening on the other end
• 1:35:01
  too. It's not that you are the first
• 1:35:04
  time they've ever come across somebody using the battle res on
• 1:35:08
  themselves. It could be that you use that.
• 1:35:11
  They've seen this before, they have a lot of issues on that
• 1:35:15
  particular fight that you got to since the rest of the night,
• 1:35:17
  seemed to go smooth. And this might be their first
• 1:35:19
  progression fight and they need to save that res for a tank who
• 1:35:23
  is We having issues and we would have gotten in and we could have
• 1:35:28
  just blown through this and now we're going to be spending the
• 1:35:30
  night on this and all that frustration that is totally
• 1:35:33
  unrelated to you is now coming out on you because you helped in
• 1:35:37
  a small way contribute to that. So if that is just how they they
• 1:35:43
  find it easiest person to blame and they go off then yeah cut
• 1:35:46
  ties go away. If it's just them having a bad
• 1:35:49
  bad day, maybe you're a rating with like my good friend.
• 1:35:54
  An egg, your rating with my good friend egg and egg is typically
• 1:35:58
  puppies and Sunshine and Lollipops and the sweetest
• 1:36:02
  person. But sometimes things go wrong
• 1:36:05
  and raid and egg turns into like just disgruntled a bit and you
• 1:36:12
  just got to know who you're dealing with.
• 1:36:16
  It helps when you have friends and you have that built up,
• 1:36:19
  camaraderie it is a lot harder with random people in a pickup.
• 1:36:24
  Group or pug group, you know what?
• 1:36:26
  That's a new title. We're calling this pug group
• 1:36:28
  likes in number. But yeah, I hope I hope that
• 1:36:32
  helps like, take it, take it Case by case because people are
• 1:36:36
  different from each other. And yeah, if you feel, you're
• 1:36:40
  just somebody's coming at you sideways.
• 1:36:43
  Yeah. It's easy enough to step away if
• 1:36:46
  you feel that you can talk to them and maybe it isn't as bad
• 1:36:51
  as you think. Have some, maybe you have some
• 1:36:54
  Faith, see that faith is well-placed.
• 1:36:57
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:37:00
  But hope that answers your question, right?
• 1:37:03
  Cool. I do like answering questions
• 1:37:07
  like this because there is, you know, there's a lot of nuance
• 1:37:09
  into into social issues that that you know, Gamers face and
• 1:37:15
  many many, don't you don't you have a show about stuff like
• 1:37:21
  this specific, right? Yeah, yeah.
• 1:37:24
  So if you To send raid related things.
• 1:37:29
  We you can always send them in here to ask Olivia or you can
• 1:37:34
  send them to my podcast where we talk about gaming and social
• 1:37:38
  issues going. IRL that I do with Lex.
• 1:37:41
  And we do talk about a lot of different social issues because
• 1:37:45
  it's not just gaming in terms of numbers and Min maxing, it's a
• 1:37:51
  social game as well. Yep.
• 1:37:53
  Absolutely. So if you guys want to support
• 1:37:59
  this show, you can send us reviews either on iTunes on
• 1:38:03
  Spotify or at the warcraft podcast directory and give us a
• 1:38:07
  five star review, it helps us reach new listeners and grow our
• 1:38:11
  audience. But until next time live, where
• 1:38:16
  can people find you around the internet?
• 1:38:18
  You can find me. You can find me on Twitter at
• 1:38:21
  Adventure live and you can also find myself and many and many,
• 1:38:27
  many others over an hour Discord Community by heading over to
• 1:38:30
  bit.ly slash fast Discord, that is bit.ly slash phase Discord.
• 1:38:35
  You can join the community today and there are a whole bunch of
• 1:38:38
  conversations going on all the time.
• 1:38:40
  We'd love to have you jump in, but aside from Discord Manny.
• 1:38:44
  Where can people find you? So you can find me on Twitter
• 1:38:48
  and twitch at True Villain Manny true without the e.
• 1:38:51
  In fact, just after the recording of this show and
• 1:38:54
  probably part way through out the this week.
• 1:38:57
  I'll be playing some Wrath of the Lich King Classic because I
• 1:39:01
  don't remember that as well as I used to, you know.
• 1:39:04
  Conduit, it's not conduits. I apologize.
• 1:39:06
  I'm calling them conduits glyphs and lives.
• 1:39:10
  We're putting put in kind of look like Oh, okay, that was a
• 1:39:14
  thing. Okay, and armor pen.
• 1:39:16
  Oh no, I don't miss armor pen. But I'm gonna play and we're
• 1:39:20
  gonna see because they're making all these changes.
• 1:39:24
  It might be interesting and fresh.
• 1:39:25
  We'll see. We'll see if it tickles my
• 1:39:27
  fancy. But yeah, you can check me out
• 1:39:29
  over on Twitch Druid Manny through without the e.
• 1:39:32
  And of course, for Azeroth is part of Warcraft radio.
• 1:39:35
  So you can check out Warcraft radio.com for other, fantastic
• 1:39:39
  shows and links to all their socials until next.
• 1:39:43
  Time. Guys, may all your hits because