Latest / Family Tree Food Stories / The Strange History of Jell-O: Gelatin, Bone Broth, Jell-O Shots & Aspic.

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The Strange History of Jell-O: Gelatin, Bone Broth, Jell-O Shots & Aspic. · Family Tree Food Stories

0:00
. 2026 Nancy May update: Hey, everybody, it's Nancy May, and yes, this is another
0:03
episode of Family Tree Food and Stories, where every dish has a little bit of
0:07
history, a good story, and a little bit of mystery, even in your kitchen
0:13
Sylvia France: and I'm Sylvia Frantz, your cohost, and we're
0:15
so glad you're here today
0:17
2026 Nancy May update: And before we do anything else,
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I'd like to give a shout-out to our listeners in Tokyo, Japan.
0:22
You've been showing up for us, So in honor of you in Tokyo, konnichiwa
0:28
Sylvia France: And it's really good timing because Japan turns
0:31
out to be part of today's show
0:33
2026 Nancy May update: Yes, it does, so stay tuned but there's a Facebook
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group before we get there about ASPEC
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Sylvia France: so define this group about ASPEC.
0:42
Sounds fishy to me
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2026 Nancy May update: I know.
0:45
You gotta pronounce that right too.
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but there are more than 45,000 people in this group, and it was started
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by a mom in Denver in 2016 who was kind of tired of everybody being
0:56
unpleasant in other food groups.
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You know those folks,
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Sylvia France: Yeah, so are you telling me 45,000 people posting
1:03
in a group about molded gelatin?
1:06
2026 Nancy May update: Yes, I am.
1:08
and the videos of themselves poking it.
1:10
All right, that kind of sounds obscene, but I'm not gonna go there.
1:14
The rule is if it jiggles, it stays.
1:17
And, you know, my dad used to have a saying, it must be jelly
1:21
because jam don't shake like that.
1:23
He was talking about people who are a little large.
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Sylvia France: I love your dad already.
1:27
I wish I would've been able to meet him.
1:30
So, okay.
1:31
I have a question, and I think I already know the answer, but just in case
1:37
2026 Nancy May update: Okay, So the question is, did it
1:39
split into rival factions?
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Sylvia France: That is the question.
1:43
Did it split into a rival faction?
1:45
Just like how the Baptist Church grows their ministry, if somebody doesn't
1:50
get along, they just start a new one
1:52
2026 Nancy May update: Careful, you might get smoted or whatever they call it.
1:56
But there is a splinter group in this whole Facebook thing of Aspect and it's
2:00
called Aspect with Threatening Auras.
2:03
Ooh.
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Sylvia France: That can't be their real name
2:07
2026 Nancy May update: it is.
2:08
There's actually a competition in Texas, believe it or not.
2:11
Hello, D. Scott Smith in Waco.
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but there's a costume party, a mid-century house is involved and it's been running
2:18
for five years, believe it or not
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Sylvia France: I would actually like to go.
2:22
It sounds interesting to me, a lot of good people watching so it sounds
2:27
like gelatin is genuinely back
2:29
2026 Nancy May update: Well, it's trying to, and pretty much.
2:31
Bone broth, jelly cocktails, aspic, not aspect as I keep wanting to
2:37
call it, collagen powder it's back across the board, and you know what?
2:42
I'm curious as to know why
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Sylvia France: Well, of course I've got an answer
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2026 Nancy May update: Of course you do.
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Sylvia France: and it's older than either of us expected
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2026 Nancy May update: But before we get there, because it is Jell-O we're
2:54
talking about or gelatin shots up first and yes, they're Jell-O shots, and no,
3:00
there's not anything in them just yet
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Sylvia France: Well, if there is, I promise not to tell
3:08
2026 Nancy May update: Well you'd probably tell anyway, but
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thank you for being here, folks.
3:11
We're glad that you're here and listening, and that you pulled a seat up to our table
3:15
Sylvia France: Because by the end, you'll know why gelatin is on your feed, why it
3:19
was on your school lunch tray, and why people are paying $40 a tub for it today
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2026 Nancy May update: Can you believe that?
3:26
$40 and I'll find out why my bone broth tastes, yes, like blech dishwater.
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Three times trying
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Sylvia France: I've got the answer.
3:36
Just wait so start with a part I can measure.
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Bone broth is in every grocery store now in cartons at four or five dollars a
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quart, and I actually think that's cheap
3:47
2026 Nancy May update: Right?
3:47
With the amount of work that goes into it but 20 years ago it was
3:51
something you made well or your mom made because you were poor
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Sylvia France: Or just because your grandmother did.
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And there's the cocktail jelly business, a Brooklyn outfit selling 40 pieces for $115
4:04
2026 Nancy May update: 40 pieces for $115?
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Yikes.
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, I'll take that business markup any day.
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Sylvia France: And they've roughly doubled sales three years running,
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and they're on 20 restaurant menus.
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Can you believe that?
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2026 Nancy May update: No, I can't, but I'm gonna guess that they might have a
4:22
few more restaurants to add to that list by the time we're done with this show.
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And on the other end, of course, you've got the Facebook group
4:30
folks who are not paying any attention to anything or anybody
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Sylvia France: So can you tell me more about them?
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Because I just saw those numbers, 45,000
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2026 Nancy May update: No, right?
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And then there's a food historian in there too, a real one.
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A history professor with 25 books to his name.
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Ugh, I guess that makes him a official professor
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Sylvia France: And in an aspic group?
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2026 Nancy May update: I know, right?
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he got in on a dare during the pandemic, and believe it or not,
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he actually deleted the invitation twice just based on the name
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Sylvia France: And now please do tell
5:05
2026 Nancy May update: Of course I will.
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now his post gets thousands of likes.
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He did a whole lobster tail set in a lobster shape mold, of course and with
5:14
champagne and a shellfish reduction.
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la-di-da
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Sylvia France: That is actually not a joke entry.
5:20
That's somebody taking it very seriously now
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2026 Nancy May update: Yeah, very seriously, and that's what struck me.
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The members talk about things being cursed.
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That's their word for it though, but they're not really mocking it
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Sylvia France: So why now?
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Because this feels like it came out of nowhere
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2026 Nancy May update: Well, not exactly.
5:39
The historians' answer is that it didn't.
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So for 20 years we've been anti-process, anti-additive,
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pro-craft, and yes, pro-homemade
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Sylvia France: And gelatin, I understand, got filed under processed, which it's not
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2026 Nancy May update: Correct.
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Right up until you make it yourself out of, well, bones.
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Kind of gruesome.
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I think this really should be an October show instead, but that's for another time.
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Then bone gelatin is the most from scratch thing that you could
6:08
probably make in your kitchen today
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Sylvia France: Oh, and that's the turn, isn't it?
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It didn't change.
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The category it sits in actually changed
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2026 Nancy May update: Pretty much the same substance, just a different shelf
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Sylvia France: And that's the same reason that no dye version showed up.
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Jell-O put out a line this year with no artificial colors or sweeteners
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2026 Nancy May update: Uh, yes, and I think most of the big companies
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have to take those artificial things out by, I think it's 2027 I heard.
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But the brand is chasing the same instinct as we who are making
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lobster aspect in our kitchen.
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I'm gonna have to try that one
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Sylvia France: Everybody's arriving at the same place from the opposite directions
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I wanted to . Get your bone broth right first before you try lobster.
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2026 Nancy May update: Right.
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Maybe we could say that.
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Well, I can say that.
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I guess I better get my before I try lobster aspect
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Sylvia France: I would agree.
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So the substance itself, gelatin, is collagen.
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You boil it out of bones and hides, and it sets when it cools.
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2026 Nancy May update: Which is also what bone broth really is
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Sylvia France: Bone broth is gelatin.
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Not similar to it, the same thing.
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When yours sets in the fridge and it goes wobbly, you got it
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, 2026 Nancy May update: Mine just never wobbled once.
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It should have been like you wiggle and jiggle and tickle inside you.
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Like weebles when they wobble right?
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Sylvia France: Exactly but we're gonna come back to bone broth later
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and I think I know why yours failed
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2026 Nancy May update: Okay.
7:33
Here's what I want sort out first, though.
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If I say jelly, what do you picture?
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Sylvia France: Grape in a jar and possibly on, of course, sourdough toast
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2026 Nancy May update: Sourdough toast, of course, right?
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And there's absolutely no gelatin in jelly at all.
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It's actually pectin, and that comes out of, well, the fruit itself, a plant
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Sylvia France: so American jelly is the plant one
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2026 Nancy May update: Correct.
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American jelly is the plant one and then we've got the British term for
8:01
jelly, which really means Jell-O.
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Their word for jelly is jam
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Sylvia France: So a kid asking for jelly and ice cream is asking
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for something completely different
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2026 Nancy May update: In Great Britain, correct.
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Completely.
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And that's before, well, you leave England
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Sylvia France: In Japan, it's saccharin, borrowed straight out of our word, , but
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carrageenan is one that's actually theirs and it's made from seaweed
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2026 Nancy May update: So now we have three different substances doing one job
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Sylvia France: You got it.
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Animal collagen, fruit pectin, and seaweed agar.
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different continents, same problem, three different answers
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2026 Nancy May update: And they all end up wobbling in somebody's
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refrigerator, which I kind of like.
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It gives it character
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Sylvia France: Absolutely.
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Although I should take something back because beef
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bone broth is also known as pho
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2026 Nancy May update: Pho.
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I always want to mispronounce that one but I've never had pho
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Sylvia France: Never.
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It's amazing
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2026 Nancy May update: Nope, not once.
9:03
Although I know how it sounds, I will give it a try, I promise
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Sylvia France: Well, I actually make it in the Crock-Pot, and
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it's not so difficult as it sounds
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2026 Nancy May update: Crock-Pot.
9:13
You are the Crock-Pot wonder.
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Um, I did make some yogurt the other night
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Sylvia France: That was in your Instapot.
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This is a Crockpot.
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2026 Nancy May update: Oh, excuse me.
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Okay, I've screwed up on that one.
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Well, I'll have to try that in a Crockpot next time.
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Sylvia France: Char the bones and the onion and ginger first, then the
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star anise and cinnamon and clove.
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And then you just walk away, just like the yogurt
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2026 Nancy May update: I like that part walking away.
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It's a dessert spice cabinet in beef broth, which sounds
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a little weird but also good
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Sylvia France: Oh, it's amazing.
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And it gels.
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Chill a good pot of pho and it sets like anything else
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2026 Nancy May update: So I'm gonna say we need to do an episode on that,
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but we'll have to let that go for now
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Sylvia France: No, you're just gonna have to take a field trip to Pinellas Park,
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where they have pho shops on every corner
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But here's the thing I keep coming back to this isn't the first comeback
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2026 Nancy May update: So it's not meaning what?
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Sylvia France: Meaning everybody treats aspic like a 1950s embarrassment, and
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that's wrong by only about, hmm, 900 years
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2026 Nancy May update: only 900 years
10:18
Sylvia France: Hold that.
10:19
We'll be back in a minute
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2026 Nancy May update: Stay tuned.
10:22
We've got more
10:55
So Sylvia, we are back as always.
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We can't let them hanging with more because I wanna know
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what happened 900 years ago
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Sylvia France: Aspic isn't American, and it is not a process.
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For roughly 1,000 years, it was a prestige , dish, festive tables,
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country banquets all over the world
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2026 Nancy May update: Well, la-di-da.
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And the thing that people posted as a curse was really not so much
11:23
Sylvia France: Actually , was a status food for 10 centuries.
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It had one bad decade in the middle of the 12th, and that decade everyone remembers
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2026 Nancy May update: Of course they do.
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. We're not really reinventing a joke about, well, aspect or something else.
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We're coming back to something that just kind of had a slight detour
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Sylvia France: And the reason it was, prestigious is the
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reason it stopped being made.
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Before powder, it took two days to make gelatin
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2026 Nancy May update: I'm not surprised.
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Two days which is a lot of work
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Sylvia France: Yet you had to boil the shin bones till they collapse,
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you strain it, you boil again, and then clear it with egg whites
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2026 Nancy May update: So it was never a recipe problem, which I'm
12:03
finding out about , and it was more of a time and labor issue.
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and then in 1679, this is the story that I like, there's a French
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physicist named Denis Papin, and he builds a sealed pot that softens
12:17
the bone with, you got it, steam
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Sylvia France: it's the precursor to a modern-day pressure cooker
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2026 Nancy May update: Yes, the first one.
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Although my mom always said they were dangerous, but yeah,
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now we have the Instant Pot.
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but it kept exploding, so what did he do?
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He's a good entrepreneur and inventor.
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He invented the safety valve, which is the thing that makes the steam engine
12:40
actually work later, you know, locomotive
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Sylvia France: I always like to tell the story that my mom had a
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pressure cooker, and she had one of the steam valves, and I thought
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it sounded like a teeter-totter.
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It would go
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2026 Nancy May update: It jiggled?
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Yeah, I know those, right?
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Sylvia France: and down.
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2026 Nancy May update: And it would always go chhh when you
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let it go, like a steam engine
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Sylvia France: Well, the Instant Pot does that during a natural release
13:01
or if you wanna do it quickly.
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So the Industrial Revolution starts with a man trying to get more out of bone
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2026 Nancy May update: Pretty much more or less.
13:09
And then, you know, he's gotta take it to somebody bigger.
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He takes it to Charles II, of course, and says, "You know, Charles," or Chuck,
13:19
"you gotta build 100 of these to feed the poor people, because that's kinda your
13:22
job." And, mm, Charles goes, "Eh," and nobody else bites or drinks, pun intended
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Sylvia France: So tell me what happened in America
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2026 Nancy May update: Well, that's a whole nother story.
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- that I love.
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In 1845, Peter Cooper patents powdered gelatin.
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He's also famous for building the private college in New York City,
13:42
Cooper Union, and he was famous for the Tom Thumb locomotive.
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And you know what else he owned?
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Sylvia France: What else?
13:49
2026 Nancy May update: He owned a glue factory
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Sylvia France: Are you really telling me a dessert that we eat
13:55
today came out of the glue business?
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2026 Nancy May update: Disgusting, I know, but yes, straight out of it.
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Then he does nothing with the patent that he had for 50 years.
14:05
But I think you know what happens next
14:08
Sylvia France: Of course I do, because I did my homework.
14:12
2026 Nancy May update: Of course.
14:13
Sylvia France: let's forward to Le Roy, New York, 1897, when Pearl Wait,
14:18
the carpenter, mixes something up at home and creates a fruit-flavored
14:22
gel, and his wife, May, names it, of course, Jell-O, which we know today
14:28
2026 Nancy May update: Yes, and I love that her name is May.
14:31
Of course.
14:31
And I do love entrepreneurs.
14:33
So this is always the hard part to ask.
14:35
Did they strike it rich?
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Sylvia France: Nope.
14:38
He couldn't sell a single package of it.
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So in 1899, he bails on the effort and sells the trademark
14:45
to his neighbor for only $450
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2026 Nancy May update: So only $450 just for the name, but that
14:53
might have been a lot back then
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Sylvia France: It was, and that's the part that gets me because I do this for
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a living, marketing and advertising.
15:01
The powder wasn't worth anything, but the advertising was
15:05
2026 Nancy May update: Well, as they say in advertising, Sylvia,
15:08
you know what this one is?
15:09
But wait, there's more.
15:11
Remember Ron Popeil?
15:13
Sylvia France: Yes, it slices, it dices
15:15
2026 Nancy May update: Yes, and it wiggles and jiggles, And there's actually another
15:19
person that few of us have actually heard much about, and her name is Rose Knox
15:25
Sylvia France: so is that the box of Knox gelatin that's in my pantry today?
15:29
2026 Nancy May update: You got it.
15:30
That's the one, the orange and kinda orangey yellow box, the weird color.
15:34
she and her husband started Knox Gelatin in Johnstown, New York in 1890,
15:39
and they picked the town specifically because the tanneries or the knackers
15:44
or glue factories, as they've also been called, were relatively close by.
15:48
And yes, that was the raw material that they used to make their product
15:52
Sylvia France: So the supply chain chose the headquarters rather than vice versa
15:58
2026 Nancy May update: Mm, yeah, and it usually does except when you've got some
16:01
fancy CEO who wants to live someplace la-di-da like, as they always call it.
16:06
But sadly, her husband Charles, dies, in 1908, and everybody assumes
16:11
that she's gonna sell the business.
16:13
And instead she says nope, and runs it for 40 years instead
16:17
Sylvia France: It sounds like she was pretty good at it
16:20
2026 Nancy May update: Of course she was.
16:21
Tough lady, strong soul, and because she was eating all that Knox gelatin.
16:26
Sylvia France: Muscles.
16:27
2026 Nancy May update: right, but the first day she permanently
16:30
closed the back door or locked it.
16:32
Why?
16:33
Because the women employees had been made to use the back door as their entrance.
16:37
instead, Rose Knox says, "We are all ladies and gentlemen,
16:42
and we will use the front door
16:44
Sylvia France: And that was in 1908
16:46
2026 Nancy May update: Yes, it was.
16:47
And then in 1913, oh, she does another thing.
16:50
she institutes the five-day work week, then two weeks paid vacation,
16:55
and one more thing, she even decides that she needs to put in
17:00
a sick leave time in her company.
17:02
Ford's five-day week wasn't put in until 1926, but he still
17:06
gets the fame and the credit.
17:08
Oof, not good
17:09
Sylvia France: Of course he did.
17:11
Ugh, the men again.
17:12
13 years behind a widow selling bone powder in upstate New York
17:17
2026 Nancy May update: I know, that's pretty pathetic.
17:18
and then it got into everything.
17:21
She obviously knew how to sell too.
17:23
I like this lady even more, and for most of us, it also got into our school lunch
17:28
trays or onto our school lunch trays
17:30
Sylvia France: So in that little compartment, if I remember correctly,
17:34
it was usually red or green
17:36
2026 Nancy May update: Well, for me, it was also in a small plastic bowl, usually
17:40
with a squirt of whipped cream on top.
17:42
Always not enough whipped cream.
17:44
But it was cheap, inexpensive, and keeps really well, and you didn't
17:48
really need to cook it, and it survives being made hours earlier.
17:52
And you know what?
17:54
It's a lunch lady cafeteria's dream food
17:58
Sylvia France: Well, it sounds like it to me.
18:00
But then I heard there's Utah which took it further than anybody else
18:05
2026 Nancy May update: Yeah, , for sure.
18:07
I love this one.
18:08
the legislature actually had to vote on it.
18:10
Can you imagine?
18:11
Jell-O becomes a political thing twice.
18:15
So get this.
18:16
In 2001, they had to vote on a resolution naming it as a favorite
18:20
snack for the state, and then again, number two, in 2009 they declared a
18:26
National Jell-O Week in, yes, Utah
18:29
Sylvia France: A whole week Most foods when I'm doing my marketing
18:33
calendars only get one day.
18:35
I can't believe a whole week at all about Jell-O
18:38
2026 Nancy May update: Well, you got lots of colors, so might as well one
18:41
for each day of the week but it falls on the second week of February, and
18:45
there's a flavor that apparently also always wins, but I bet you know that one
18:51
Sylvia France: I know that one.
18:52
It's strawberry according to the company.
18:56
But the one I keep thinking about is the one they retired
19:00
2026 Nancy May update: I never thought that any Jell-O flavor had retired.
19:03
So what was that one?
19:04
Sylvia France: Can you believe it?
19:05
Celery.
19:07
Celery Jell-O was real.
19:09
But here's the secret, a savory flavor only makes sense if the thing
19:13
started out savory to begin with
19:16
2026 Nancy May update: Which, okay, so this is a good segue because
19:19
it brings me to my dad who loved tomato aspect thinking of savory
19:24
Sylvia France: Really?
19:24
Do tell.
19:26
I love both Bob and your dad's stories.
19:30
Yes
19:31
2026 Nancy May update: so this one's a little bit about his mom,
19:33
or my grandmother, we called Grammy.
19:36
and she used to send him a crate of tomato aspic every Christmas, every single year.
19:42
He absolutely loved this stuff
19:44
Sylvia France: So a crate.
19:45
Do you know actually how many cans that was?
19:48
2026 Nancy May update: I don't, but it seemed like a lot, and it lasted
19:50
him most of the year, and he rationed it like it was something really rare.
19:54
And there was always a can, two, or six in the refrigerator
19:58
Sylvia France: So I'm wondering, can you buy it now?
20:01
2026 Nancy May update: I haven't seen it on the shelves
20:02
for years and lots of years.
20:04
I haven't even really looked too hard for it until now, and I don't
20:07
think that they even make it anymore
20:09
Sylvia France: There's always some family food that gets lost over time, sadly,
20:13
and your grandmother shipped it by the case and now you just can't find it
20:18
2026 Nancy May update: I know, but it was a loving thing that she sent.
20:20
But wait, because, well, it's apparently coming back looking completely
20:25
different and a little homemade, and not the way you're picturing it.
20:29
In cans like my grandmother, for sure, or the Jell-O shots, well,
20:33
some of us might remember from the college days at the frat house
20:36
Sylvia France: I'll never admit if I do or not.
20:38
So please describe them because the photo you shared genuinely got my attention
20:46
2026 Nancy May update: Well, Aspect is one thing, but they also have the jellies,
20:49
which are layered and cut into inch cubes and flavored with color bursts injected
20:54
into them and suspended inside the Jell-O or the gelatin in stunning designs.
20:59
it's a work of art, and they're wobbly and translucent, and yes, they're gel
21:05
Sylvia France: When I looked at it, I thought I was actually looking at
21:08
stained glass like you find in churches
21:11
2026 Nancy May update: No, I know, right?
21:13
But a pastry chef in Brooklyn started making large format jelly
21:17
cakes for weddings back in 2018.
21:20
Weddings, can you imagine?
21:21
Sylvia France: No, not for my next wedding.
21:24
And I found a pair of British guys at a company called Bombas and Parr doing
21:29
something similar, but as art since 2007.
21:33
They met in school orchestra at 13
21:37
2026 Nancy May update: 13.
21:37
That's pretty cool but what were they doing exactly with this jelly?
21:42
Sylvia France: Can you believe it?
21:43
It was architectural jelly.
21:45
they once created a Victorian steamship out of gelatin.
21:49
Their own account says it was over 50 tons.
21:52
Sounds a little exaggerated to me and then they let the people eat it
21:57
2026 Nancy May update: So I can't imagine.
22:00
50 tons and eating this stuff.
22:02
the SS Great Britain.
22:04
I looked them up.
22:05
I did a little background on that one too, and the better story
22:08
is what they did with it next.
22:10
Sylvia France: Which is
22:12
2026 Nancy May update: Well, they brought back a dead company, believe it or not.
22:15
Talk about resurrection of food and, well, companies.
22:19
Venom and Fraud, the firm that made the copper molds founded in the 1700s,
22:24
which was gone by 1924, and try to get one of those antique molds now.
22:28
You know what they look like
22:30
Sylvia France: I know.
22:30
I've seen them all over kitchens where people use them for decoration.
22:34
But it sounds like it was killed by convenience
22:37
2026 Nancy May update: Pretty much, that's true.
22:39
Their own history page calls what came after the jellying dark ages.
22:44
Sylvia France: Say that three times fast.
22:46
2026 Nancy May update: No, I can't, not with a jello shot in me.
22:50
Sylvia France: So they went under, then the mold went out of fashion
22:53
2026 Nancy May update: Yeah, that's kind of how it happened, and everybody brought
22:57
the name back a century later, which is the same story as many others today
23:02
Sylvia France: There's also a woman in LA, running her whole operation herself,
23:06
installations at Paris and the New York Fashion Week and the Venice Biennale
23:12
2026 Nancy May update: Whoa.
23:13
making a Jell-O business at New York Fashion Week?
23:16
so this actually stopped being a novelty and turned truly
23:19
into a high art form or craft
23:21
Sylvia France: You got it, and you can get the cocktail ones without
23:25
any alcohol, which surprised me
23:27
2026 Nancy May update: And you know what I saw this morning?
23:29
I saw somebody who made one that looked like a dirty martini,
23:33
which is what we've got sitting right in front of us right now.
23:37
Sylvia France: Sounds extremely very good to me So it was
23:41
never really about the booze.
23:43
It was about the object and what it looked like
23:45
2026 Nancy May update: Correct.
23:46
And the art.
23:47
And one more thing I found that undid my entire assumptions.
23:51
You know what they say?
23:52
Never assume.
23:54
The boozy Jell-O shots inven- aren't really a modern
23:57
frat house invention at all
23:59
Sylvia France: Don't tell that to anybody at Florida State.
24:01
2026 Nancy May update: No,
24:02
Sylvia France: really?
24:04
2026 Nancy May update: For real.
24:05
believe it or not, there's actually published recipes for wine set gels
24:08
that go back to the Middle Ages.
24:11
Get your cone hats and your scarfs ready
24:13
Sylvia France: So you're telling me the Jell-O shot is medieval?
24:18
2026 Nancy May update: Except for the plastic cup, that one's new.
24:21
The idea is actually 600 years old or more And there's one more part that
24:25
is a comeback that is truly an ugly one
24:28
Sylvia France: Are you talking about the supplements?
24:30
And I want people to hear this… And are you talking about the supplements?
24:35
And I want people to hear this carefully
24:37
2026 Nancy May update: I am talking about the supplements and the vitamin
24:39
business, which really isn't as regulated as the drug industry.
24:43
Well, you may not know that, but it's not.
24:45
Because collagen powder is everywhere right now
24:48
Sylvia France: And here's what nobody is saying out loud.
24:51
Collagen and gelatin are really the same protein.
24:55
Gelatin is collagen that's been cooked
24:58
2026 Nancy May update: So that $40 tub that we talked about earlier or the
25:01
$140 box of shots is actually what?
25:05
Sylvia France: It's chemically an envelope of Knox gelatin with much better branding
25:11
2026 Nancy May update: Yeah and the other thing you found out,
25:13
Sylvia France: There's a viral version calling plain gelatin nature's Ozempic.
25:18
. Snopes ran it down.
25:19
Large parts of it are in an ad fraud operation
25:23
2026 Nancy May update: So we're talking snake oil fraud in a modern day way but
25:27
how specifically are they doing this?
25:29
. Sylvia France: They are making fake news pages built to look like
25:32
real network coverage, fake comment sections, famous doctors' names
25:37
on recipes that they never wrote
25:39
2026 Nancy May update: This is disgusting, actually.
25:41
It isn't a trend.
25:42
It's a snake oil sales funnel as far as I'm concerned
25:45
Sylvia France: Yes, a And we started this episode in 1679 with a man pitching bone
25:50
jelly to a king as the answer to hunger
25:53
2026 Nancy May update: I know.
25:54
Well, it might've been good back then, but not today like this.
25:57
350 years and the same sneaky sales pitch.
26:02
And one correction, because you'll hear this every Thanksgiving as well:
26:07
gelatin is not made from horses' hooves.
26:10
Ooh, thank goodness
26:11
Sylvia France: That's totally disgusting and not true, but
26:14
this one is actually everywhere
26:16
2026 Nancy May update: Yeah, I know.
26:18
I've got the horse friends down the street and I used to ride.
26:20
So horse hooves are actually keratin, basically fingernails.
26:24
All right, so I used to bite my fingernails but gelatin is collagen
26:29
and a completely different protein
26:31
Sylvia France: So do you know where the mix-up is from?
26:33
2026 Nancy May update: I do.
26:34
Old enough that Knox put the calf on the package partially to make sure and
26:38
say out loud what was really in the box.
26:41
Not neigh horses
26:43
Sylvia France: So now, Nancy, back to your three attempts.
26:48
What was in the pot?
26:50
2026 Nancy May update: Well, it was really pretty simple.
26:51
Lots of beef bones.
26:52
We went to the butcher.
26:54
Water, salt, pepper, that's it
26:57
Sylvia France: That's it?
26:58
2026 Nancy May update: That's it.
26:58
That was the recipe, and that's what I was told to do
27:01
Sylvia France: Well, that's the French recipe, not the France recipe.
27:05
2026 Nancy May update: Okay.
27:06
Sylvia France: Then you didn't make bad broth.
27:08
You made unseasoned bone water and you were absolutely right to hate it
27:13
2026 Nancy May update: Well, I'm glad my taste buds were at least correct.
27:16
So what should I have done?
27:18
Sylvia France: Well, I cheat.
27:19
I start with a rotisserie chicken that I get at the store
27:23
, 2026 Nancy May update: So it's a $4.99 one, the kind that
27:25
you get under the heat lamp
27:26
Sylvia France: That's the one and here's why I like it.
27:29
You can eat the chicken for dinner first
27:31
2026 Nancy May update: Um, that makes sense.
27:32
Twice as nice.
27:33
But the broth is made out of the part that you have to throw
27:36
away, I'm gonna guess, right?
27:38
Sylvia France: Oh, I save it all.
27:39
Bone, skin, the whole carcass.
27:41
You already got a money's worth, nothing being wasted.
27:44
And I do admit that I was a guest at Thanksgiving, and they had three turkeys,
27:50
and I took home all three carcasses
27:53
2026 Nancy May update: Okay.
27:55
That's a little creepy, and but I get it what goes in with it?
27:58
Sylvia France: So I have onions, garlic, carrots, parsley, bay leaves, thyme,
28:03
oregano, turmeric, and whole peppercorns
28:06
2026 Nancy May update: Ooh, that sounds pretty good.
28:08
A considerably longer list than just my salt, pepper, and well, water
28:12
Sylvia France: But there's a little bit more.
28:14
I add a splash of apple cider vinegar, which actually isn't for flavor.
28:18
It's the acid that pulls more collagen out of the bone
28:21
2026 Nancy May update: so the vinegar is doing some kind of
28:23
chemistry thing it sounds like
28:25
Sylvia France: Exactly.
28:26
Then also the lemon and the juice and the peel both
28:30
The vinegar's doing chemistry.
28:31
The lemon, the juice, and the peel both
28:34
2026 Nancy May update: Okay.
28:35
and how long do you cook it for?
28:36
Sylvia France: Oh, - four hours minimum.
28:38
I do mine on the stove top so I can watch the liquid and taste as I go
28:43
2026 Nancy May update: Hmm.
28:43
Oh, God.
28:44
I taste it for sure and that's about it
28:46
Sylvia France: I'll confess the rest.
28:48
Mine still came out a little flat, as you know it can, so I stir in Better
28:54
Than Bouillon Roasted Chicken at the end
28:56
2026 Nancy May update: Okay, so I'm glad that you got a cheater on the side
28:59
because I'd probably do the same thing.
29:01
But you simmer the bones for half a day and then you reach for the jar
29:06
Sylvia France: I do
29:07
2026 Nancy May update: I'm not gonna say anything as far as cheating,
29:10
but it still sounds pretty good
29:12
Sylvia France: You're saying quite a lot by that way you're saying it.
29:15
2026 Nancy May update: Yeah, well I'm not accusing anybody to things
29:19
that would've saved me at least but, I think you've got a few more.
29:23
So what else could I have used?
29:25
Sylvia France: Oh, I love them.
29:26
I found them on Amazon.
29:28
It's called Soup Sox.
29:30
Yes, Soup Sox.
29:31
2026 Nancy May update: One or two.
29:34
Sylvia France: Only one, and you do not put them on your feet.
29:37
2026 Nancy May update: Okay
29:37
Sylvia France: so to make bone broth, you have to strain it clear, and the
29:41
sock means you lift out… It's Soup Sox.
29:44
What you have is cheesecloth that you knot at the bottom
29:47
and at the top, which is great.
29:50
So you have to strain the broth clear, and the sock means you lift it out and you're
29:56
done, and you throw it in the garbage
29:58
2026 Nancy May update: and for storing it, I think you've got a trick on that one
30:01
Sylvia France: Oh, I love my silicon soup molds.
30:04
. , I love it 'cause you can freeze it in portions, you know, from
30:08
tablespoons to one to two and four cups, and then you pull out whatever
30:13
you need for what you're making
30:15
2026 Nancy May update: Those sound really cool.
30:16
I'm gonna have to find those, Which at our house is, of course, bob soup
30:21
Sylvia France: Well, at my house I make chicken noodle
30:24
soup, that's kind of obvious.
30:26
Then there's always the hoppin' John, which we've had our discussion about,
30:31
- which is its own episode, and I'm not opening up that can of worms today
30:36
because I am making it for you next time
30:39
2026 Nancy May update: Okay, well I'm looking forward to that one, but we're
30:41
absolutely coming back to that one because I've got a lot of southern food to try yet
30:46
Sylvia France: But here's what matters.
30:47
Chill it overnight, and if it sets and if it wobbles
30:51
2026 Nancy May update: And it wiggles and jiggles.
30:52
It's gelatin
30:54
Sylvia France: then you made the same thing that's in the box and
30:57
the $40 tub out of a carcass that you were going to throw away anyway
31:02
2026 Nancy May update: I like that part
31:03
Sylvia France: So five things that you can take out of this,
31:06
2026 Nancy May update: Absolutely not just five facts, five things you can
31:09
do today, and here's what they are.
31:12
One, gelatin and collagen are the same protein.
31:15
Gelatin is collagen that's been cooked.
31:17
So before you go and buy a $40 tub of it, know you're buying a version
31:22
of what's in a $2 envelope instead
31:25
Sylvia France: Two, Bone broth is gelatin, and the test is free.
31:29
Chill it overnight, and if it sets and wobbles you've pulled the collagen out.
31:33
If it stays liquid, you didn't.
31:36
2026 Nancy May update: Number three, season it or don't bother.
31:39
Then you end up with bones and water alone and make bone water.
31:42
Yuck.
31:43
I don't recommend that.
31:44
Add aromatics, a splash of apple cider vinegar for acid, and well, let it sit
31:50
for four hours on the stove just simmering
31:53
Sylvia France: Yes, you do not want bone broth dishwater.
31:56
2026 Nancy May update: No.
31:58
Sylvia France: Four, . Fresh pineapple will stop it from setting.
32:00
Same with kiwi, mango, papaya, figs, and fresh ginger.
32:04
The enzymes eat the protein.
32:06
Use the can.
32:07
The heat already killed them.
32:09
I guess that's why my mom used the can fruit cocktail in her orange Jell-O
32:14
2026 Nancy May update: Right?
32:15
They were always everywhere as I was growing up as a kid.
32:18
Every mom did it.
32:19
And number five, aspic.
32:20
Not aspect, but aspic.
32:24
But aspic, you gotta get that one out right, was never a joke.
32:27
It was a prestige dish for roughly 1,000 years, and it had one little bad decade.
32:34
What's happening now isn't a revival of a kitsch, it's people coming back to
32:38
something after just a slight detour.
32:42
So the next time somebody laughs at your Jell-O mold, go, "Ha," and scoff at them
32:48
… Sylvia France: Yeah, You can tell them that 45,000 people are in a
32:51
group about it, and one of them is an actual history professor
32:57
2026 Nancy May update: That makes it legitimate and
32:58
here's what we want for you.
33:00
Go find your gelatin memory, the school tray, the mold that your grandmother
33:05
made or maybe mom, and the one flavor that you would still eat today
33:10
Sylvia France: And . Then tell us.
33:11
That's the kind of thing we read out on the show
33:14
2026 Nancy May update: We'd love to do that.
33:16
and if you make the broth, tell us whether it wobbled or whether you
33:19
just cleaned the dishes with it.
33:22
Sylvia France: I especially want to hear from anyone who fixes what
33:25
Nancy couldn't with her bone broth
33:27
2026 Nancy May update: Please.
33:28
Three times, I'm gonna give it another try.
33:30
Well, maybe I'll just take it from you
33:32
Sylvia France: I'll just give you a couple of my,
33:35
, 2026 Nancy May update: frozen squares for sure
33:37
Sylvia France: I have a care package all ready for you and if you want the
33:40
long version of this kind of thing to capture your memories the companion
33:44
book is at Family Tree Food and Stories
33:47
2026 Nancy May update: Yep, just go to podcast.familytreefoodstories.
33:50
At the top of the page, there's a little option to say book, and it'll
33:54
take you right to Amazon to buy it.
33:56
And by the way, it is on sale right now.
33:58
I just saw that, and I know somebody who just bought several
34:01
of them for friends and family.
34:03
So shots up to the cows, the seaweed, and yes, all right, so the
34:08
fruit that you add into the Jell-O
34:09
Sylvia France: All solving the same problem, . So happy
34:12
cooking and happy experimenting.
34:15
2026 Nancy May update: Now where is the alcohol Jell-O shot?
34:18
Sylvia France: They're in my cup now.
34:21
2026 Nancy May update: See you later.
34:21
Bye-bye