Latest / Veterinary Ramblings / Ep 22: Life in China with Dr. Alasdair Hotston Moore

Transcript

Ep 22: Life in China with Dr. Alasdair Hotston Moore · Veterinary Ramblings

• 0:01
  Mike Brampton: Good evening and
• 0:01
  Mike Brampton: welcome.
• 0:02
  Mike Brampton: Hello, Julian!
• 0:04
  Julian Hoad: Hello, Mike!
• 0:05
  Mike Brampton: Wow. Well we're
• 0:05
  Mike Brampton: into series four of Veterinary
• 0:09
  Mike Brampton: Ramblings
• 0:10
  Julian Hoad: Series Four? How
• 0:10
  Julian Hoad: did that happen?
• 0:13
  Julian Hoad: A minute ago it was March and
• 0:13
  Julian Hoad: we're in lockdown.
• 0:16
  Mike Brampton: Yeah. And now
• 0:16
  Mike Brampton: it's November and we're in
• 0:18
  Mike Brampton: lockdown.
• 0:19
  Julian Hoad: We are, yes
• 0:33
  Mike Brampton: Well, what a
• 0:33
  Mike Brampton: night we've got tonight.
• 0:36
  Julian Hoad: Yeah, it's gonna be
• 0:36
  Julian Hoad: fantastic, isn't it?
• 0:38
  Mike Brampton: Absolutely.
• 0:39
  Mike Brampton: Absolutely. So, we've got a
• 0:39
  Mike Brampton: fabulous guest tonight.
• 0:41
  Mike Brampton: A chap I've spent many hours
• 0:41
  Mike Brampton: with normally on a bicycle
• 0:47
  Mike Brampton: riding around Scotland and
• 0:47
  Mike Brampton: Northern Ireland doing CPD off a
• 0:51
  Mike Brampton: bicycle like a couple of onion
• 0:51
  Mike Brampton: sellars.
• 0:54
  Julian Hoad: And one of my one
• 0:54
  Julian Hoad: of my surgical heroes.
• 0:58
  Mike Brampton: Oh, right. Okay.
• 0:58
  Mike Brampton: Tell everybody we're talking to
• 1:03
  Julian Hoad: We are talking to
• 1:03
  Julian Hoad: none other than Alasdair Hotston
• 1:09
  Julian Hoad: Moore tonight, who is fantastic.
• 1:14
  Mike Brampton: Tell us a little
• 1:14
  Mike Brampton: bit about him.
• 1:15
  Julian Hoad: Shall I give you
• 1:15
  Julian Hoad: his bio?
• 1:17
  Mike Brampton: Yeah, please do.
• 1:17
  Mike Brampton: I think he's nearly here.
• 1:21
  Julian Hoad: He's almost here,
• 1:21
  Julian Hoad: he's drawing up outside I can
• 1:23
  Julian Hoad: hear his wheels crunching on the
• 1:23
  Julian Hoad: gravel road.
• 1:26
  Julian Hoad: So he qualified from Cambridge
• 1:26
  Julian Hoad: in 1990s, in the last millennia,
• 1:32
  Julian Hoad: and he's focused pretty much on
• 1:32
  Julian Hoad: small animal surgery since then,
• 1:35
  Julian Hoad: he did an internship and a
• 1:35
  Julian Hoad: residency at Bristol Vet School.
• 1:40
  Julian Hoad: Spent a little time doing
• 1:40
  Julian Hoad: research in Aberdeen in 1997, a
• 1:46
  Julian Hoad: year after I qualified to give
• 1:46
  Julian Hoad: some sort of perspective.
• 1:49
  Julian Hoad: He returned to Bristol. And he
• 1:49
  Julian Hoad: was subsequently lecturer and
• 1:54
  Julian Hoad: Senior Lecturer in small animal
• 1:54
  Julian Hoad: surgery.
• 1:57
  Julian Hoad: He's got post graduate
• 1:57
  Julian Hoad: qualifications in loads of
• 2:01
  Julian Hoad: things.
• 2:02
  Julian Hoad: So in radiology, small animal
• 2:02
  Julian Hoad: cardiology, spinal surgery, and
• 2:09
  Julian Hoad: medical education.
• 2:11
  Mike Brampton: Wow.
• 2:12
  Julian Hoad: He was also the
• 2:12
  Julian Hoad: programme director of veterinary
• 2:14
  Julian Hoad: nursing degree and lead through
• 2:14
  Julian Hoad: years 3 to 5 of the B vet
• 2:18
  Julian Hoad: science programme.
• 2:19
  Mike Brampton: Wow
• 2:20
  Julian Hoad: He moved into
• 2:20
  Julian Hoad: private referral practice. Early
• 2:24
  Julian Hoad: 2000s 2009. That's still early
• 2:24
  Julian Hoad: for me, was clinical director
• 2:29
  Julian Hoad: and member of the clinical
• 2:29
  Julian Hoad: advisory board
• 2:37
  Julian Hoad: He received a fellowship shortly
• 2:37
  Julian Hoad: after, 2017, received a
• 2:42
  Julian Hoad: fellowship for contributions to
• 2:42
  Julian Hoad: clinical practice. And as an
• 2:45
  Julian Hoad: advanced practitioner in small
• 2:45
  Julian Hoad: animal surgery.
• 2:49
  Julian Hoad: He has more publications in peer
• 2:49
  Julian Hoad: reviewed journals and books than
• 2:54
  Julian Hoad: you can shake a stick at
• 2:56
  Mike Brampton: Gosh
• 2:56
  Julian Hoad: He's spoken in just
• 2:56
  Julian Hoad: about every country in Europe,
• 3:03
  Julian Hoad: the world and very recently left
• 3:03
  Julian Hoad: go old Blighty to go to China.
• 3:10
  Mike Brampton: Our man in
• 3:10
  Mike Brampton: Shanghai
• 3:12
  Julian Hoad: Our man in
• 3:12
  Julian Hoad: Shanghai.
• 3:13
  Mike Brampton: Wow.
• 3:14
  Julian Hoad: I believe he's back
• 3:14
  Julian Hoad: now, isn't he?
• 3:16
  Mike Brampton: Yeah, he is. And
• 3:16
  Mike Brampton: I'll tell you what's more
• 3:18
  Mike Brampton: Julian. Not only is he back.
• 3:18
  Mike Brampton: He's in the waiting room.
• 3:23
  Julian Hoad: Lets get him in.
• 3:25
  Mike Brampton: Let's get him in
• 3:25
  Mike Brampton: and introduce everybody to
• 3:28
  Mike Brampton: Alasdair Hotston Moore,
• 3:28
  Mike Brampton: Alasdair!
• 3:31
  Mike Brampton: Hello
• 3:33
  Julian Hoad: Alasdair you've got
• 3:33
  Julian Hoad: far more hair than any of us
• 3:36
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: I've got
• 3:36
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: it here as well, look!
• 3:38
  Julian Hoad: yeah what's going
• 3:38
  Julian Hoad: on down there?
• 3:41
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: It's my
• 3:41
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: unemployment beard.
• 3:48
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: I can't afford to, you know,
• 3:48
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: fizzle money away on shaving and
• 3:52
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: stuff. I'd say Mike's the same
• 3:52
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: by the looks of it.
• 3:55
  Julian Hoad: Seriously viewers
• 3:55
  Julian Hoad: if you can afford to send a bic
• 3:59
  Julian Hoad: a week to Alasdair, please go to
• 3:59
  Julian Hoad: www.SendAlasdairABicAWeek.co.uk.
• 4:10
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: Yeah,
• 4:10
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: thank you. That's very kind of
• 4:11
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: you
• 4:12
  Mike Brampton: You're very very
• 4:12
  Mike Brampton: welcome
• 4:14
  Julian Hoad: Other razors are
• 4:14
  Julian Hoad: available. You don't want to
• 4:16
  Julian Hoad: waste money on those.
• 4:17
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: Probably
• 4:17
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: better ones
• 4:19
  Julian Hoad: Bic's are fine.
• 4:20
  Mike Brampton: It's troubling me
• 4:20
  Mike Brampton: actually. Cuz he wears it a
• 4:22
  Mike Brampton: little bit better than I do I
• 4:22
  Mike Brampton: think.
• 4:24
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: It's
• 4:24
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: alright isn't it, I did it-
• 4:27
  Julian Hoad: It's a nice one.
• 4:29
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: And this
• 4:29
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: is 3 weeks now I think, yes, 3
• 4:34
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: weeks.
• 4:35
  Julian Hoad: See, when I was at
• 4:35
  Julian Hoad: college, I grew a beard.
• 4:38
  Julian Hoad: And after about 6 months, it
• 4:38
  Julian Hoad: grew into really quite a
• 4:40
  Julian Hoad: luxuriant catweazle straggly
• 4:40
  Julian Hoad: one.
• 4:44
  Julian Hoad: And my wife has informed me that
• 4:44
  Julian Hoad: if ever I grew another beard
• 4:47
  Julian Hoad: again, she's leaving.
• 4:49
  Julian Hoad: So that's a good sign.
• 4:52
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: I've had
• 4:52
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: a lockdown haircut to try and
• 4:54
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: keep me going for the next 4
• 4:54
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: weeks
• 4:56
  Mike Brampton: Have you? Fair
• 4:56
  Mike Brampton: enough. So you've come, you sort
• 4:59
  Mike Brampton: of left one lockdown to another?
• 5:02
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: You know
• 5:02
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: that lockdown in China was a
• 5:04
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: long time ago. And life has been
• 5:04
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: almost normal for months.
• 5:10
  Julian Hoad: So, So you've come
• 5:10
  Julian Hoad: back now, have you Alasdair, to
• 5:14
  Julian Hoad: the new lockdown, and really to
• 5:14
  Julian Hoad: try and crack this virus once at
• 5:22
  Julian Hoad: once and for all,
• 5:24
  Julian Hoad: and so just don't go out ever
• 5:24
  Julian Hoad: again unless you want to drive
• 5:29
  Julian Hoad: to Barnard castle or some or
• 5:29
  Julian Hoad: something like that.
• 5:32
  Julian Hoad: Thank you and then we'll get
• 5:32
  Julian Hoad: through it all until we die of
• 5:35
  Julian Hoad: Coronavirus next week. Thank
• 5:35
  Julian Hoad: you.
• 5:37
  Mike Brampton: I have to say I'm
• 5:37
  Mike Brampton: scared because for the listeners
• 5:43
  Mike Brampton: to the show. That was almost
• 5:43
  Mike Brampton: pitch perfect and visual perfect
• 5:50
  Mike Brampton: mimic of our erstwhile, not
• 5:50
  Mike Brampton: fuhrer, Boris Johnson Yeah.
• 6:03
  Julian Hoad: Fantastic, don't we
• 6:03
  Julian Hoad: love him.
• 6:05
  Mike Brampton: Don't we love
• 6:05
  Mike Brampton: him? We love him as much as
• 6:08
  Mike Brampton: No, no, no,
• 6:09
  Mike Brampton: We're not gonna go there are we?
• 6:10
  Julian Hoad: I'm not going to
• 6:10
  Julian Hoad: mention Dominic Cummings.
• 6:12
  Mike Brampton: No, no.
• 6:13
  Julian Hoad: Our defaqto Prime
• 6:13
  Julian Hoad: Minister.
• 6:14
  Mike Brampton: Yeah. Or what's
• 6:14
  Mike Brampton: going on over the other side of
• 6:18
  Mike Brampton: the Atlantic either.
• 6:20
  Julian Hoad: So you're back.
• 6:20
  Julian Hoad: You're back from China?
• 6:22
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: Yeah.
• 6:22
  Julian Hoad: Did you have a good
• 6:22
  Julian Hoad: time?
• 6:24
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: We had a
• 6:24
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: ball most of the time.
• 6:27
  Julian Hoad: Yeah. But we'll
• 6:27
  Julian Hoad: talk about the food later.
• 6:32
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: We did.
• 6:32
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: We had a lot of fun.
• 6:37
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: China is a strange place, as you
• 6:37
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: might expect, and, and a land of
• 6:44
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: contrasts in every way.
• 6:48
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: So in this context, that means
• 6:48
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: that yes, we had times where you
• 6:52
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: had fun, and certainly an awful
• 6:52
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: lot of interest, and saw things
• 6:57
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: that we'd never otherwise see,
• 6:57
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: in a good way.
• 7:00
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: And also life in China can be
• 7:00
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: extremely frustrating.
• 7:05
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: And there's a sort of general
• 7:05
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: view that living there as a
• 7:10
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: international expat, that if you
• 7:10
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: can enjoy six days a week, then
• 7:17
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: you're okay.
• 7:19
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: And if you get to only enjoying
• 7:19
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: five days a week, it's probably
• 7:23
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: time to think again.
• 7:25
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: Because the days when you have
• 7:25
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: difficult days can be can be
• 7:29
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: very difficult.
• 7:30
  Julian Hoad: And is that
• 7:30
  Julian Hoad: bureaucracy?
• 7:32
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: Bureaucracy
• 7:32
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: is an important part of it. So I
• 7:37
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: guess it would be the same if
• 7:37
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: any of us went to make our life
• 7:41
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: in another country.
• 7:43
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: But, not only of course, is
• 7:43
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: there language barriers, more
• 7:47
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: than there will be in other
• 7:47
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: European countries, for example,
• 7:51
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: but also the Chinese they like
• 7:51
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: systems.
• 7:57
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: I think they've introduced more
• 7:57
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: systems in recent years, because
• 8:00
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: they feel they ought to.
• 8:02
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: But some of those things lead to
• 8:02
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: a lot of frustration sometimes.
• 8:07
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: So you know, as an example.
• 8:10
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: To open my bank account, well,
• 8:10
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: firstly, you can only have a
• 8:13
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: bank account, if you have a work
• 8:13
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: permit.
• 8:16
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: So my wife couldn't have a bank
• 8:16
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: account, and you can't have
• 8:19
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: joint bank accounts. So I had to
• 8:19
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: have a bank account. And then
• 8:24
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: she could, we could share my
• 8:24
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: bank card.
• 8:27
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: So payment apps and things.
• 8:31
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: But, so first of all, you need
• 8:31
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: to have a work permit, then you
• 8:34
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: need to go to the bank with your
• 8:34
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: passport, your work permit, your
• 8:38
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: work contract, and a statement
• 8:38
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: of your salary.
• 8:43
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: And this took 3 visits to get
• 8:43
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: this sorted out. And the last
• 8:48
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: visit, which was successful, was
• 8:48
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: three hours. And you think,
• 8:51
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: these things just take time and
• 8:51
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: it takes a while.
• 8:56
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: And you just have to learn to
• 8:56
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: accept that some of these things
• 8:59
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: in China just seem to take time
• 8:59
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: that you don't understand.
• 9:04
  Julian Hoad: And are they sped
• 9:04
  Julian Hoad: through by greasing the palms a
• 9:07
  Julian Hoad: little bit?
• 9:08
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: No, no,
• 9:08
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: no,
• 9:11
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: I think that can happen but I
• 9:11
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: never saw that myself.
• 9:15
  Julian Hoad: And did you learn
• 9:15
  Julian Hoad: the language at all?
• 9:19
  Mike Brampton: Very little.
• 9:22
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: I will
• 9:22
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: be flattering myself to say 20
• 9:25
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: words, probably less than that.
• 9:25
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: Oh, no, not not very much at
• 9:30
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: all.
• 9:31
  Julian Hoad: If you learnt 20
• 9:31
  Julian Hoad: words then you probably know
• 9:33
  Julian Hoad: about 2000 because some of them
• 9:33
  Julian Hoad: are the same words, but just
• 9:37
  Julian Hoad: pronounced slightly different.
• 9:38
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: I know
• 9:38
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: there's four tones. But that's
• 9:46
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: all, I know there are four tones
• 9:46
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: but, you know, that doesn't help
• 9:49
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: me in the slightest.
• 9:50
  Mike Brampton: The one one I
• 9:50
  Mike Brampton: like best, because I've spent a
• 9:53
  Mike Brampton: bit of time studying this and
• 9:53
  Mike Brampton: the one I like best is,
• 9:57
  Mike Brampton: And I'll probably get it wrong
• 9:57
  Mike Brampton: and I apologise in advance to
• 10:00
  Mike Brampton: any of our Chinese listeners for
• 10:00
  Mike Brampton: my intonation, but it's the word
• 10:05
  Mike Brampton: Ma.
• 10:07
  Mike Brampton: And with the intonation of Ma,
• 10:07
  Mike Brampton: that means mother in law. But ma
• 10:17
  Mike Brampton: means horse.
• 10:18
  Mike Brampton: And I think it's great. And I
• 10:18
  Mike Brampton: could just picture a whole host
• 10:21
  Mike Brampton: of occasions where I could
• 10:21
  Mike Brampton: blunder in and get it all wrong.
• 10:27
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: Yeah.
• 10:27
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: Although they, you know,
• 10:29
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: something I discovered and one
• 10:29
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: reason that I accepted a job in
• 10:35
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: China was, actually Chinese
• 10:35
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: people do have a sense of humour
• 10:40
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: and a sense of fun
• 10:41
  Mike Brampton: Right
• 10:43
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: And
• 10:43
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: because I speak almost no
• 10:47
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: Chinese. It wasn't a big
• 10:47
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: problem, actually. Because you
• 10:52
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: can talk to people without
• 10:52
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: sharing words.
• 10:56
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: And you can, you know, laughing
• 10:56
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: smiling and pointing, if when
• 11:01
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: you're pointing you're laughing
• 11:01
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: and smiling, not shouting and
• 11:07
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: pointing then it works.
• 11:09
  Mike Brampton: So you're not a
• 11:09
  Mike Brampton: true British expat then?
• 11:11
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: No, no
• 11:12
  Mike Brampton: I SAID YOU'RE NOT
• 11:12
  Mike Brampton: A TRUE BRITISH EXPAT
• 11:21
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: I'm sure
• 11:21
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: I was on occasions because
• 11:23
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: sometimes that bureaucracy thing
• 11:23
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: just gets too much.
• 11:26
  Mike Brampton: That's another
• 11:26
  Mike Brampton: one I've just remembered.
• 11:30
  Mike Brampton: Chinese for cat?
• 11:32
  Mike Brampton: You know this one surely,
• 11:32
  Mike Brampton: Alasdair? Mo () is the Chinese
• 11:39
  Mike Brampton: for cat. I like that. Sorry.
• 11:42
  Julian Hoad: Thank you is a
• 11:42
  Julian Hoad: shochet or something, Shashi?
• 11:45
  Julian Hoad: (It's Xixi)
• 11:45
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: Yeah.
• 11:45
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: Although Paula tells me I've
• 11:49
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: always pronounced it wrong. So
• 11:49
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: I'm not going to pronounce it
• 11:51
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: now. Because the trouble is,
• 11:51
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: once you start pronouncing
• 11:54
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: something wrong, it's very hard
• 11:54
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: to
• 11:56
  Julian Hoad: it is a learning
• 11:56
  Julian Hoad: game. Yeah.
• 12:02
  Julian Hoad: I often ask a question as a ice
• 12:02
  Julian Hoad: breaker for quizzes and things.
• 12:11
  Julian Hoad: What's the longest sentence in
• 12:11
  Julian Hoad: English language comprising of
• 12:14
  Julian Hoad: just one word?
• 12:17
  Julian Hoad: And do you know this one? So the
• 12:17
  Julian Hoad: longest sentence in the English
• 12:23
  Julian Hoad: language comprising of just one
• 12:23
  Julian Hoad: word is Buffalo, Buffalo,
• 12:27
  Julian Hoad: Buffalo buffalo Buffalo, Buffalo
• 12:27
  Julian Hoad: buffalo buffalo.
• 12:31
  Julian Hoad: And, that's a completely
• 12:31
  Julian Hoad: grammatically correct sentence.
• 12:37
  Julian Hoad: Because buffalo here has three
• 12:37
  Julian Hoad: meanings as Buffalo,
• 12:40
  Julian Hoad: which is the the bovid, the
• 12:40
  Julian Hoad: animal. And there's buffalo
• 12:45
  Julian Hoad: which is the place in America.
• 12:45
  Julian Hoad: And there's a verb 'to Buffalo',
• 12:50
  Julian Hoad: which is an American verb
• 12:51
  Julian Hoad: and it means to annoy or be
• 12:51
  Julian Hoad: grouchy at
• 12:54
  Julian Hoad: so buffalo buffalo, in other
• 12:54
  Julian Hoad: words, the buffalo from Buffalo,
• 12:57
  Julian Hoad: Buffalo or get grouchy at the
• 12:57
  Julian Hoad: buffalo Buffalo, so the ones
• 13:02
  Julian Hoad: from Buffalo, that the buffalo
• 13:02
  Julian Hoad: Buffalo, also, Buffalo, you see,
• 13:10
  Julian Hoad: so that's now buffalo buffalo
• 13:10
  Julian Hoad: buffalo buffalo Buffalo, Buffalo
• 13:14
  Julian Hoad: buffalo buffalo. So that's,
• 13:14
  Julian Hoad: that's 8.
• 13:20
  Julian Hoad: So, however, the longest
• 13:20
  Julian Hoad: sentence in the Chinese
• 13:27
  Julian Hoad: language, comprising of just one
• 13:27
  Julian Hoad: word, is a 94 word poem, called
• 13:33
  Julian Hoad: The Lion Eats, and it only has
• 13:33
  Julian Hoad: one word, which is shi,
• 13:37
  Julian Hoad: but shi can have 30 odd
• 13:37
  Julian Hoad: meanings. And so they trounce us
• 13:44
  Julian Hoad: completely on that one.
• 13:47
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: I mean,
• 13:47
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: this is my excuse for why I
• 13:52
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: didn't try very hard to learn it
• 13:52
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: because I, I decided early on
• 13:56
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: before I went that, I would
• 13:56
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: never learn enough to be useful
• 13:59
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: at work,
• 13:59
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: I'd never consolt in Chinese and
• 13:59
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: actually it'd be dangerous to do
• 14:04
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: so. Because unless you have a
• 14:04
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: very secure grasp of language
• 14:08
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: that leads to all sorts of
• 14:08
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: difficulties.
• 14:11
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: So I never really, I never
• 14:11
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: started and then every so often,
• 14:15
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: I'd think, 'Oh, I should get
• 14:15
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: some lessons arranged', but I
• 14:19
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: never did.
• 14:19
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: But Paula did a lot, Paula has a
• 14:19
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: reasonable grasp, but she gets
• 14:25
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: frustrated. And this is because,
• 14:30
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: as in any conversation between
• 14:30
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: people of different languages
• 14:35
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: and different appearances, of
• 14:35
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: course if you don't manage to
• 14:38
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: speak clearly in the language
• 14:41
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: you're trying to use, and you
• 14:41
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: don't look like you should be
• 14:44
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: using that language. People just
• 14:44
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: assume you're speaking your own
• 14:47
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: language and they don't
• 14:47
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: understand you.
• 14:49
  Julian Hoad: Yes, that's true.
• 14:49
  Julian Hoad: It can be as frustrating the
• 14:53
  Julian Hoad: other way around. So Sylvia and
• 14:53
  Julian Hoad: I are learning Greek and we can
• 14:59
  Julian Hoad: both speak Greek now reasonably,
• 14:59
  Julian Hoad: we can we can get by.
• 15:03
  Julian Hoad: But Sylvia, being Armenian,
• 15:03
  Julian Hoad: looks Greek. And so if I speak
• 15:10
  Julian Hoad: Greek, then they'll be overjoyed
• 15:10
  Julian Hoad: that here is someone who's
• 15:13
  Julian Hoad: clearly English speaking Greek
• 15:15
  Julian Hoad: and they will speak very slowly
• 15:15
  Julian Hoad: and half in English because of
• 15:20
  Julian Hoad: certain idiomatic expressions
• 15:21
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: I didn't
• 15:21
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: know Greek people could speak
• 15:23
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: slowly.
• 15:26
  Julian Hoad: They have to twist
• 15:26
  Julian Hoad: their arms. But, if Sylvia says
• 15:30
  Julian Hoad: something in Greek, then they'll
• 15:30
  Julian Hoad: look at her, and think oh she's
• 15:32
  Julian Hoad: clearly Greek and they'll rattle
• 15:32
  Julian Hoad: off 1000 revs per minute.
• 15:36
  Julian Hoad: And give the answer to the
• 15:36
  Julian Hoad: question and we're standing
• 15:39
  Julian Hoad: there going...
• 15:40
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: Yeah.
• 15:40
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: And the trouble with these
• 15:43
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: answers is that, Yeah, and we've
• 15:43
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: been there.
• 15:45
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: So you know, you can develop a
• 15:45
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: question in other language, and
• 15:48
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: I couldn't do any Chinese. But
• 15:48
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: you know, I could spend 10
• 15:52
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: minutes thinking of a question
• 15:52
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: in French.
• 15:54
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: And then of course, you deliver
• 15:54
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: your question, and the answer
• 15:57
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: comes back.
• 15:58
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: 'So you just go down there. Now
• 15:58
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: my auntie used to live on the
• 16:01
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: left there, but around the
• 16:01
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: corner, see the house with the
• 16:05
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: red door? You don't want that
• 16:05
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: one.
• 16:06
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: Just keep going along a bit. And
• 16:06
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: you look, I know you're looking
• 16:09
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: for bakers. But before you get
• 16:09
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: to the bakers, there's an
• 16:12
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: excellent butchers just there.'
• 16:14
  Julian Hoad: 'This sausage is
• 16:14
  Julian Hoad: fantastic.'
• 16:21
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: So no I
• 16:21
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: didn't have that problem in
• 16:23
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: China because I could tell the
• 16:23
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: taxi driver to turn right.
• 16:27
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: Because sometimes that's useful,
• 16:29
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: and not least because on to the
• 16:29
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: compound where we lived you
• 16:32
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: would go in. It's the only
• 16:32
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: roundabouts I've seen in China,
• 16:38
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: they don't really do that,
• 16:39
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: but for some reason on our
• 16:39
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: compound, there was a
• 16:41
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: roundabout, so get to the first
• 16:41
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: roundabout, turn right.
• 16:44
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: Okay, so I've got the word for
• 16:44
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: right. And then you get to the
• 16:46
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: next roundabout, and it's
• 16:46
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: straight across. So Oh, yeah.
• 16:49
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: straight across.
• 16:51
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: And then and then stop or here.
• 16:51
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: And you can stop and that's it.
• 16:58
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: But I never learned the word for
• 16:58
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: left because I didn't need to
• 17:00
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: turn it
• 17:04
  Julian Hoad: Didn't need to
• 17:04
  Julian Hoad: reverse into the compound at
• 17:06
  Julian Hoad: all?
• 17:09
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: Actually,
• 17:09
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: you know, with modern
• 17:11
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: technology, although I can tell
• 17:11
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: a taxi driver where to go he's
• 17:16
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: already got it on his phone, the
• 17:16
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: DD on on the DD app.
• 17:22
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: And there's a DD version of the
• 17:22
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: app in English so that's great.
• 17:28
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: And and off you go and you know,
• 17:28
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: the usual social media for
• 17:34
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: messaging friends and so on is
• 17:34
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: WeChat and again there's an auto
• 17:39
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: translate within it.
• 17:42
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: You know, I have some Chinese
• 17:42
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: contacts that speak no more
• 17:46
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: English than I speak Chinese.
• 17:46
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: But we can talk about things,
• 17:51
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: you can ask me for case advice
• 17:51
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: and I can give them case advice.
• 17:55
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: Using inapp translation.
• 17:57
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: To do so requires both parties
• 17:57
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: just to think carefully about
• 18:00
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: the way that they write
• 18:02
  Julian Hoad: Incredible isn't
• 18:02
  Julian Hoad: it? We're approaching a stage
• 18:04
  Julian Hoad: where we can almost get Douglas
• 18:04
  Julian Hoad: Adams babel fish in your ear
• 18:10
  Julian Hoad: What our clients like in China?
• 18:10
  Julian Hoad: Are they the same sort of
• 18:16
  Julian Hoad: clients we get over here? Are
• 18:16
  Julian Hoad: they more demanding less
• 18:18
  Julian Hoad: demanding?
• 18:20
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: I guess
• 18:20
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: same as here, there are some
• 18:23
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: that are very demanding and, and
• 18:23
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: some that are more like, we
• 18:29
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: would think we will be if we
• 18:29
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: were clients.
• 18:32
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: So my particular client base, I
• 18:32
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: have about a third of Western
• 18:37
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: clients. And then about a third
• 18:37
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: of English speaking Chinese
• 18:43
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: clients,
• 18:44
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: and maybe a third of non English
• 18:44
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: speaking Chinese clients. And
• 18:48
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: they're generally, not not
• 18:48
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: entirely, but they're in the
• 18:52
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: middle to upper economic
• 18:52
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: bracket.
• 18:56
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: Of course, we weren't a
• 18:56
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: particularly expensive
• 18:59
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: establishment actually. But
• 18:59
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: certainly the walking price was
• 19:02
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: certainly not expensive.
• 19:04
  Mike Brampton: Right.
• 19:06
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: And so
• 19:06
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: most of the Western clients of
• 19:09
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: course, are similar to UK or
• 19:09
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: North American clients in terms
• 19:15
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: of their general attitudes and
• 19:15
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: so on.
• 19:18
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: Some of them aren't, so perhaps
• 19:18
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: some people are Westerners that
• 19:23
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: have only started keeping pets
• 19:23
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: since they lived in Shanghai,
• 19:27
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: then some of them behave in a
• 19:27
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: more Chinese style. And that has
• 19:33
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: some interesting effects.
• 19:35
  Mike Brampton: Do you want to
• 19:35
  Mike Brampton: care to elaborate on?
• 19:40
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: So one
• 19:40
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: of the interesting things about
• 19:46
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: the client pet relationship in
• 19:46
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: China is there is much less
• 19:52
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: trust going on, than we just
• 19:52
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: accept is the case in the UK.
• 20:00
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: So we all have clients who don't
• 20:00
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: trust us, of course we do. And
• 20:03
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: we all have clients in the UK
• 20:03
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: that we fall out with. But the
• 20:06
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: reality is that 90% of clients,
• 20:06
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: maybe more,
• 20:11
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: do like us, they do trust us.
• 20:11
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: And they follow our instructions
• 20:16
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: without, you know, they may ask
• 20:16
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: questions to understand them
• 20:20
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: better, but generally they
• 20:20
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: follow our instructions,
• 20:22
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: because they believe we're
• 20:22
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: giving them the correct answer
• 20:26
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: for the best care for them and
• 20:26
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: their pet. The trust between
• 20:32
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: ets and clients in China is
• 20:32
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: much less.
• 20:33
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: And, partly, some of that
• 20:33
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: relates to the vet relationship.
• 20:44
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: And I think some of it relates
• 20:44
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: to general levels of trust
• 20:48
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: between clients and businesses.
• 20:51
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: In China, there was less trust,
• 20:51
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: trust is not a given. So you
• 20:57
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: know, as a non veterinary
• 20:57
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: example.
• 21:01
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: You know, if I go a shop here,
• 21:01
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: or I go and eat out in a
• 21:07
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: restaurant in the UK, and the
• 21:07
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: bill comes, I suspect like most
• 21:12
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: people, I glance at the bill,
• 21:12
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: and if it looks right
• 21:18
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: Then you're good to go really
• 21:18
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: aren't you and off you go,
• 21:22
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: whereas in China, everyone would
• 21:22
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: would rake through the bill item
• 21:28
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: by item, that would be much more
• 21:28
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: normal.
• 21:31
  Julian Hoad: Oh, really?
• 21:31
  Mike Brampton: Wow!
• 21:33
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: And
• 21:33
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: there's nothing wrong with that.
• 21:35
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: It just, I think, illustrates a
• 21:35
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: different level of trust between
• 21:40
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: clients
• 21:40
  Mike Brampton: I almost
• 21:40
  Mike Brampton: perceived it would be the other
• 21:42
  Mike Brampton: way around.
• 21:43
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: No, no.
• 21:43
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: So, we went out with one of my
• 21:47
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: nurses, a young lady called Mia,
• 21:47
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: she was very useful and very
• 21:54
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: pleasant to us and
• 21:57
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: we went to a local Chinese, of
• 21:57
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: course, restaurant with her one
• 22:01
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: night and we're talking, you
• 22:01
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: know, you can get, in a
• 22:05
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: restaurant like that,
• 22:06
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: which was just around the corner
• 22:06
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: from where we live, you could
• 22:09
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: get a good meal for 5 to 7
• 22:09
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: ounds a head, including a coupl
• 22:14
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: of beers.
• 22:16
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: And at the end of the evening,
• 22:16
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: she went through the bill, and
• 22:19
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: she discovered that they had
• 22:19
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: charged us for some boxes of
• 22:23
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: serviettes, that we hadn't
• 22:23
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: opened
• 22:26
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: She insisted that they take them
• 22:26
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: off the bill. And we're talking,
• 22:29
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: you know, 20 pence.
• 22:36
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: So it's not a criticism, I'm
• 22:36
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: being very careful about the way
• 22:41
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: I say things, I just observe it
• 22:41
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: as a difference. And then the
• 22:46
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: veterinary industry reflects
• 22:46
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: that as well.
• 22:53
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: In a general sense, as well as
• 22:53
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: in a particular sense. So yeah,
• 22:56
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: the other thing is that, you
• 22:56
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: know, vets in the UK, of course,
• 23:00
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: they're generally trusted,
• 23:02
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: We are generally well educated,
• 23:02
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: we behave professionally. And
• 23:11
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: even if we chose not to behave
• 23:11
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: professionally, we could easily
• 23:14
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: get caught out for behaving not
• 23:14
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: professionally
• 23:17
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: There will be sanctions against
• 23:17
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: us. And so, you know, in
• 23:22
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: general, we behave as a
• 23:22
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: profession. Vet's in China, I
• 23:27
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: would say, don't see themselves
• 23:27
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: as a profession generally,
• 23:34
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: I'd say one of the defining
• 23:34
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: aspects of the profession is
• 23:37
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: self regulation, or at least,
• 23:37
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: how much of it now is self
• 23:41
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: regulation, but regulation
• 23:41
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: within the profession in some
• 23:45
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: way.
• 23:46
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: That doesn't happen in China
• 23:48
  Julian Hoad: So there's no
• 23:48
  Julian Hoad: equivalent of the RCVS?
• 23:51
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: No, no,
• 23:51
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: you have to have a local
• 23:55
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: licence. That's, I think, not
• 23:55
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: particularly measured on your
• 24:01
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: professionalism. It's more, you
• 24:01
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: know,
• 24:04
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: if you broke the laws for
• 24:04
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: stocking pharmaceuticals or
• 24:08
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: something, you might have some
• 24:08
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: sanction against you. But you
• 24:13
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: know, as an example of that,
• 24:15
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: this would be something that
• 24:15
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: would never happen in the UK. So
• 24:18
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: a client comes in with Doodoo to
• 24:18
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: come and see me,
• 24:23
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: Doodoo's there on the table in
• 24:23
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: front of me not looking very
• 24:26
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: well.
• 24:28
  Mike Brampton: Doodoo?
• 24:29
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: Doodoo,
• 24:29
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: that's one of the commonest
• 24:31
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: names of dogs in China.
• 24:32
  Mike Brampton: Right? So this is
• 24:32
  Mike Brampton: like Tricky Woo is it?
• 24:35
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: Yeah,
• 24:35
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: absolutely.
• 24:36
  Julian Hoad: And at the same
• 24:36
  Julian Hoad: time, one of the more common
• 24:38
  Julian Hoad: presenting signs
• 24:41
  Mike Brampton: This is what I
• 24:41
  Mike Brampton: was thinking, Doodoo comes in
• 24:44
  Mike Brampton: and I'm picturing this big
• 24:44
  Mike Brampton: steaming pile.
• 24:49
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: Can I
• 24:49
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: get back to my story?
• 24:52
  Mike Brampton: Sorry Alasdair,
• 24:52
  Mike Brampton: carry on, so Doodoo the dog...
• 24:58
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: I've
• 24:58
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: examined Doodoo, reviewed some
• 25:01
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: some results that have come with
• 25:01
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: Doodoo.
• 25:03
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: And now the results won't have
• 25:03
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: been provided by the other vet,
• 25:06
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: if it's seen another vet
• 25:06
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: already, because they don't
• 25:09
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: really do that.
• 25:10
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: But the clients have copies of
• 25:10
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: all the results directly, they
• 25:14
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: just expected to be like that.
• 25:14
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: And that's not a bad thing
• 25:17
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: actually I quite like that.
• 25:20
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: So I've looked at the dog, I've
• 25:20
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: looked at the blood tests. They
• 25:24
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: maybe have a screenshot of the X
• 25:24
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: ray. So I'm looking at the
• 25:27
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: screenshot of the X ray.
• 25:30
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: And then the clients on the
• 25:30
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: phone, and they're on the phone
• 25:35
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: to a another vet. Not the vet
• 25:35
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: they've seen already by a third
• 25:39
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: vet,
• 25:40
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: who's never seen doo doo or
• 25:40
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: anything else. And the other vet
• 25:43
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: will be telling the owner what
• 25:43
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: they think should be done.
• 25:47
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: And saying whatever I've
• 25:47
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: suggested might be the wrong
• 25:50
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: thing to do.
• 25:50
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: Probably not, right is the wrong
• 25:50
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: word, that would be to kind,
• 25:55
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: I've actually had basically, you
• 25:55
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: know, another vet who's never
• 25:59
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: met the dog or the owner,
• 25:59
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: telling the owner that I'm a
• 26:03
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: fool
• 26:03
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: because I've not done this
• 26:03
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: particular test or suggested you
• 26:07
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: do that particular test. That as
• 26:07
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: far as I know, that doesn't
• 26:10
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: happen in the UK. I don't recall
• 26:10
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: that happening.
• 26:15
  Mike Brampton: Could you imagine
• 26:15
  Mike Brampton: that in your consult room?
• 26:18
  Julian Hoad: No. Although I did
• 26:18
  Julian Hoad: have an interesting occasion
• 26:21
  Julian Hoad: once I was consulting, and there
• 26:21
  Julian Hoad: was this i s guy saying 'yeah'.
• 26:27
  Julian Hoad: And suddenly his phone went I
• 26:27
  Julian Hoad: was giving him a diagnosis - his
• 26:34
  Julian Hoad: dog had -
• 26:35
  Mike Brampton: you're watching
• 26:35
  Mike Brampton: this live.
• 26:38
  Julian Hoad: Yes, his dog had a
• 26:38
  Julian Hoad: soft tissue sarcoma. And so I
• 26:41
  Julian Hoad: was telling him, it's really bad
• 26:41
  Julian Hoad: news.
• 26:43
  Mike Brampton: Hang on, Julian,
• 26:43
  Mike Brampton: shh! I've got someone on the
• 26:46
  Mike Brampton: phone -
• 26:48
  Julian Hoad: take your
• 26:48
  Julian Hoad: conversation over there. Oh
• 26:51
  Julian Hoad: you're there aren't you -
• 26:52
  Mike Brampton: I can't get over
• 26:52
  Mike Brampton: that. that is so rude!
• 26:55
  Julian Hoad: It is it is. Yeah.
• 26:55
  Julian Hoad: He said, "Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah,
• 26:59
  Julian Hoad: I'm at the vet's yeah."
• 27:01
  Julian Hoad: "no, he's going on about
• 27:01
  Julian Hoad: something or other.""So what is
• 27:03
  Julian Hoad: it? Yeah, right. Friday yeah.
• 27:03
  Julian Hoad: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, probably
• 27:09
  Julian Hoad: will. Yeah. Charge much too
• 27:09
  Julian Hoad: much. Yeah."
• 27:19
  Julian Hoad: There we go. I charged him
• 27:19
  Julian Hoad: double.
• 27:21
  Julian Hoad: But your right, it happens very
• 27:21
  Julian Hoad: rarely, and most people are
• 27:28
  Julian Hoad: respectful of us.
• 27:30
  Julian Hoad: We were very, very lucky. We
• 27:30
  Julian Hoad: were privileged profession, in
• 27:33
  Julian Hoad: that we are a profession. And
• 27:33
  Julian Hoad: people in general have a great
• 27:36
  Julian Hoad: deal of trust, in what we say,
• 27:36
  Julian Hoad: which is good.
• 27:39
  Julian Hoad: Because that trust then is
• 27:39
  Julian Hoad: repaid, we do the job we do
• 27:43
  Julian Hoad: because in general, we love the
• 27:43
  Julian Hoad: job we do. And we love the
• 27:49
  Julian Hoad: patients.
• 27:50
  Julian Hoad: And there's this certain bit of
• 27:50
  Julian Hoad: love that goes to the client as
• 27:52
  Julian Hoad: well.
• 27:52
  Julian Hoad: Because actually, to have a dog
• 27:52
  Julian Hoad: or a cat and pay it that much
• 27:55
  Julian Hoad: attention and bring it to the
• 27:55
  Julian Hoad: vet needs love and commitment.
• 27:59
  Julian Hoad: And so we in turn respect the
• 27:59
  Julian Hoad: clients for doing that don't we.
• 28:03
  Mike Brampton: Yeah, that's it.
• 28:03
  Mike Brampton: That's brilliant us what's next
• 28:05
  Mike Brampton: for you? Any plans at all?
• 28:07
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: So I'm,
• 28:07
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: yeah, I'm likely to return to a
• 28:11
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: referral practice in the UK,
• 28:11
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: right after Christmas.
• 28:16
  Julian Hoad: Any ideas which one
• 28:16
  Julian Hoad: yet? Or not at liberty to say?
• 28:19
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: No, just
• 28:19
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: finalising some, talked to a
• 28:22
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: couple of people and people seem
• 28:22
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: to be surprisingly keen to get
• 28:27
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: me in their team. So
• 28:29
  Mike Brampton: why are you
• 28:29
  Mike Brampton: surprised?
• 28:32
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: We all
• 28:32
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: suffer occasionally from
• 28:33
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: imposter syndrome, I think.
• 28:38
  Julian Hoad: You're far, far
• 28:38
  Julian Hoad: from an imposter. As I said
• 28:43
  Julian Hoad: earlier, in our intro, you spoke
• 28:43
  Julian Hoad: about heroes of the veterinary
• 28:49
  Julian Hoad: profession.
• 28:50
  Julian Hoad: And I'll be honest, you know, to
• 28:50
  Julian Hoad: me, a lowly jobbing veterinary
• 28:56
  Julian Hoad: surgeon who has an interest in
• 28:56
  Julian Hoad: soft tissue surgery, you know,
• 29:01
  Julian Hoad: whenever I do surgery, I think
• 29:01
  Julian Hoad: what would Alasdair be doing
• 29:05
  Julian Hoad: this, would I be doing it nearly
• 29:05
  Julian Hoad: as well as he? Clearly the
• 29:11
  Julian Hoad: answer is not but you know,
• 29:13
  Julian Hoad: I look to you as as one of the,
• 29:13
  Julian Hoad: I don't want to get too close
• 29:20
  Julian Hoad: here with you on this.
• 29:21
  Julian Hoad: But I look to you as one of the
• 29:21
  Julian Hoad: leaders of the profession in
• 29:25
  Julian Hoad: this in that actually when when
• 29:25
  Julian Hoad: you started to grind your teeth
• 29:31
  Julian Hoad: on soft tissue field,
• 29:34
  Julian Hoad: A lot of the procedures that are
• 29:34
  Julian Hoad: being considered standard now,
• 29:38
  Julian Hoad: werent being considered at all
• 29:38
  Julian Hoad: back then were they?
• 29:41
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: I think
• 29:41
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: you're right. I certainly
• 29:44
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: entered at a time when it was
• 29:44
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: moving beyond a few universities
• 29:51
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: and you know,
• 29:52
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: there was only one or two
• 29:52
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: referral centres back then that
• 29:55
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: had any real specialism with a
• 29:55
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: small 's' going on.
• 30:03
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: So yeah, I was in it at that
• 30:03
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: time. And since then yes,
• 30:08
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: there's been many procedures
• 30:08
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: that have become standard, that
• 30:12
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: were certainly not then,
• 30:12
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: interestingly,
• 30:16
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: you know, if I look back one of
• 30:16
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: my heroes for example, Professor
• 30:21
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: Howard Pearson, rest in peace,
• 30:21
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: probably.
• 30:29
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: so I was lucky enough to look
• 30:29
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: back through some of his cases,
• 30:35
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: because I was left his letters
• 30:35
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: to look at when he retired so
• 30:41
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: that I could
• 30:42
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: trawl back and do some
• 30:42
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: retrospective studies. And it
• 30:47
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: was not that long before I was
• 30:47
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: there that people were really
• 30:51
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: reluctant to do bitch spays in
• 30:51
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: practice,
• 30:55
  Julian Hoad: is that right?
• 30:56
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: Absolutely!
• 30:56
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: So I, you know if you only go
• 31:00
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: back to the... I started at
• 31:00
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: Bristol in 1990, you would only
• 31:04
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: go back 10-15 years before that.
• 31:09
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: And there were lots of
• 31:09
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: practitioners that would not
• 31:12
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: want to do that and would send
• 31:12
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: them in to get done.
• 31:18
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: So that's just one example. But
• 31:18
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: yeah, again, there's been
• 31:22
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: another flourishing in my time
• 31:22
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: for sure.
• 31:26
  Julian Hoad: I remember when I
• 31:26
  Julian Hoad: first saw practice, or did
• 31:31
  Julian Hoad: clinical work experience, rather
• 31:31
  Julian Hoad: when I was 10 or 11. And I
• 31:35
  Julian Hoad: worked for really quite an
• 31:35
  Julian Hoad: advanced vet in those days who
• 31:40
  Julian Hoad: had one of
• 31:40
  Julian Hoad: the first veterinary hospitals
• 31:40
  Julian Hoad: in Sutton, the guy called Allen
• 31:45
  Julian Hoad: Phillips, really nice guy. And
• 31:45
  Julian Hoad: he would get scrubbed up in a
• 31:51
  Julian Hoad: short sleeve gown, and if he was
• 31:51
  Julian Hoad: doing an orthopaedic
• 31:57
  Julian Hoad: op, that was the first thing on
• 31:57
  Julian Hoad: the table as it should be now,
• 32:03
  Julian Hoad: because that was the most
• 32:03
  Julian Hoad: sterile. He'd do the orthop
• 32:07
  Julian Hoad: edic op, get the drill. Sew it a
• 32:07
  Julian Hoad: l up, hands up again,
• 32:11
  Julian Hoad: and the nurses will whisk the
• 32:11
  Julian Hoad: dog away, and then bring him the
• 32:15
  Julian Hoad: bitch spay. And he'd dive in
• 32:15
  Julian Hoad: there. And he reckoned that
• 32:21
  Julian Hoad: actually you could do an
• 32:21
  Julian Hoad: orthopaedic,
• 32:23
  Julian Hoad: a Bitch spay, a dog castrate,
• 32:23
  Julian Hoad: and then the cats because that
• 32:27
  Julian Hoad: will be a line of sterility. And
• 32:27
  Julian Hoad: you'd be absolutely fine in
• 32:32
  Julian Hoad: doing that. Of course, he put a
• 32:32
  Julian Hoad: good vial of powdered
• 32:36
  Julian Hoad: penbritin into each wound at the
• 32:36
  Julian Hoad: time
• 32:40
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: you just
• 32:40
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: cant get it anymore
• 32:43
  Julian Hoad: actually Lesley
• 32:43
  Julian Hoad: Vaughn was still using that the
• 32:46
  Julian Hoad: RVC when I was studying!
• 32:46
  Julian Hoad: Penbritin is crystallised dried
• 32:52
  Julian Hoad: penicillin, isn't it?
• 32:54
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: Yeah.
• 32:56
  Julian Hoad: And you'd sprinkle
• 32:56
  Julian Hoad: it in with the hopes that,
• 32:58
  Julian Hoad: presumably, the high acid
• 32:58
  Julian Hoad: content of it would kill any
• 33:02
  Julian Hoad: bacteria.
• 33:04
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: When I
• 33:04
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: was a resident, one of my
• 33:05
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: mentors was using it. Yeah. You
• 33:05
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: know, when you finish the total
• 33:10
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: ear canal ablation,
• 33:11
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: and lateral osteotomy then you
• 33:11
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: sprinkle in some
• 33:18
  Julian Hoad: the magic dust.
• 33:19
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: Yeah.
• 33:19
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: Yeah, yeah. I've never done
• 33:22
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: that. But
• 33:23
  Julian Hoad: yeah, you'd shutter
• 33:23
  Julian Hoad: at it. Now. I know, when I first
• 33:26
  Julian Hoad: qualified, there was this idea
• 33:26
  Julian Hoad: that if you are doing a rabbit
• 33:30
  Julian Hoad: abscess and clearing that out,
• 33:32
  Julian Hoad: you'd suture an antirobe
• 33:32
  Julian Hoad: capsule,
• 33:34
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: Do you
• 33:34
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: know where that came from?
• 33:36
  Julian Hoad: No.
• 33:37
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: So that
• 33:37
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: whole thing came from when
• 33:39
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: antirobe we're looking for
• 33:39
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: promotion and advertisement
• 33:46
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: material and stuff. And so this
• 33:46
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: must be in 92, I don't
• 33:51
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: know maybe before, a long time
• 33:51
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: ago, and somebody wrote a case
• 33:56
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: report of a rabbit abscess, and
• 33:56
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: this is what they did. And then
• 34:01
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: it's just become this is what
• 34:01
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: you should do
• 34:05
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: on the basis of a case report
• 34:05
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: written, no peer review nothing,
• 34:10
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: written for the purposes of
• 34:10
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: upjon as it was then, promote
• 34:15
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: antirobe in small animals.
• 34:19
  Julian Hoad: This is the n = 1
• 34:19
  Julian Hoad: caseload.
• 34:21
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: Yeah,
• 34:21
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: absolutely.
• 34:22
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: Yeah. And it's persisted in
• 34:22
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: every sense. Not only that
• 34:29
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: capsule still left
• 34:32
  Mike Brampton: It'd class as an
• 34:32
  Mike Brampton: urban myth really?
• 34:34
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: Yeah.
• 34:34
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: Yeah
• 34:36
  Mike Brampton: I've got one with
• 34:36
  Mike Brampton: the Cat Doppler from Thames
• 34:40
  Mike Brampton: Medical and there's a lot of
• 34:40
  Mike Brampton: them out there, they've been
• 34:44
  Mike Brampton: around for 20 years. And a lot
• 34:44
  Mike Brampton: of people will phone us up
• 34:48
  Mike Brampton: and say that they take the
• 34:48
  Mike Brampton: battery out after every use.
• 34:53
  Mike Brampton: Well, that's never appeared in
• 34:53
  Mike Brampton: any documentation that I've
• 34:57
  Mike Brampton: produced as a manufacturer or
• 34:57
  Mike Brampton: anything.
• 34:59
  Mike Brampton: It turned out that when the
• 34:59
  Mike Brampton: Novartis reps were carrying Cat
• 35:05
  Mike Brampton: Dopplers around to promote to
• 35:05
  Mike Brampton: control blood pressure,
• 35:10
  Mike Brampton: they were carrying the units
• 35:10
  Mike Brampton: around in the boots of their
• 35:12
  Mike Brampton: cars. So over winter the unit
• 35:12
  Mike Brampton: would be in the boot of their
• 35:19
  Mike Brampton: car overnight.
• 35:20
  Mike Brampton: And of course, a cold battery
• 35:20
  Mike Brampton: would never work the next
• 35:24
  Mike Brampton: morning. So I told a couple of
• 35:24
  Mike Brampton: Novartis reps that if you carry
• 35:28
  Mike Brampton: it around the boot of the car,
• 35:28
  Mike Brampton: take the battery out.
• 35:32
  Mike Brampton: And that got translated to every
• 35:32
  Mike Brampton: practice that uses a Cat
• 35:36
  Mike Brampton: Doppler, to having to take the
• 35:36
  Mike Brampton: battery out every time they use
• 35:40
  Mike Brampton: it.
• 35:41
  Mike Brampton: Of course, in practice, it's
• 35:41
  Mike Brampton: staying in a nice warm
• 35:43
  Mike Brampton: environment. There's no real
• 35:43
  Mike Brampton: temperature gradient and or
• 35:47
  Mike Brampton: anything like that.
• 35:48
  Mike Brampton: There's no real need to unless
• 35:48
  Mike Brampton: you want to recharge it, of
• 35:50
  Mike Brampton: course. But yeah, most
• 35:50
  Mike Brampton: incredible stuff. So that's
• 35:54
  Mike Brampton: where the rabbit abscess thing
• 35:54
  Mike Brampton: came from.
• 35:57
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: Yeah. It
• 35:57
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: must still have one of those
• 35:59
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: leaflets somewhere. It'd be good
• 35:59
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: to find it.
• 36:01
  Julian Hoad: It'd be good,
• 36:01
  Julian Hoad: wouldn't it, Yeah, yeah. It'd be
• 36:03
  Julian Hoad: great.
• 36:06
  Mike Brampton: Love it. Love
• 36:06
  Mike Brampton: urban myths like that
• 36:09
  Julian Hoad: Things have
• 36:09
  Julian Hoad: progressed, haven't they now,
• 36:11
  Julian Hoad: and I guess most practices are
• 36:11
  Julian Hoad: trying to follow evidence based
• 36:18
  Julian Hoad: medicine.
• 36:21
  Mike Brampton: I want to come
• 36:21
  Mike Brampton: back to China.
• 36:22
  Mike Brampton: China is, we all talk or we hear
• 36:22
  Mike Brampton: about Chinese medicine. And the
• 36:31
  Mike Brampton: Chinese ways, Is there much
• 36:31
  Mike Brampton: crossover in veterinary medicine
• 36:36
  Mike Brampton: with regards to Chinese
• 36:36
  Mike Brampton: medicine?
• 36:40
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: So there
• 36:40
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: is a school of, schooling with a
• 36:45
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: small s, of traditional Chinese
• 36:45
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: veterinary medicine.
• 36:49
  Mike Brampton: Right
• 36:50
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: I didn't
• 36:50
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: have much to do with it, because
• 36:52
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: of course, clients that would
• 36:52
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: come to see me were not looking
• 36:55
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: for that approach anyway.
• 36:59
  Mike Brampton: That's partly
• 36:59
  Mike Brampton: because you're six foot four.
• 37:02
  Mike Brampton: And from the UK.
• 37:05
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: Yeah,
• 37:05
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. And
• 37:06
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: they've came to me because they
• 37:06
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: want a Western facing.
• 37:10
  Mike Brampton: Yeah. Okay.
• 37:15
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: But some
• 37:15
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: of my patients will have been on
• 37:18
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: traditional Chinese veterinary
• 37:18
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: medicine. In fact, most vets
• 37:25
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: don't have any teaching on
• 37:25
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: traditional Chinese veterinary
• 37:28
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: medicine
• 37:28
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: and many of the, certainly the
• 37:28
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: foremost veterinary colleges
• 37:36
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: don't seem to have any active
• 37:36
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: teachers in traditional Chinese
• 37:39
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: medicine.
• 37:40
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: So vets that have learnt it,
• 37:40
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: have learnt hemselves through
• 37:44
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: bookwork rather than through
• 37:44
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: teaching at university
• 37:48
  Mike Brampton: right
• 37:51
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: I'll ask
• 37:51
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: now, as I'm no longer in China,
• 37:53
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: I'll ask this question. What do
• 37:53
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: we know about traditional
• 37:57
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: Chinese medicine? The answer is
• 37:57
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: we don't know very much.
• 38:01
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: How old do we think it is? When
• 38:01
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: did it see a great resurgence?
• 38:07
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: Any thoughts on it?
• 38:08
  Mike Brampton: Ming?
• 38:11
  Julian Hoad: It was within the
• 38:11
  Julian Hoad: last 80 years, wasn't it?
• 38:13
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: Yeah, it
• 38:13
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: was Mao Zedong realised that
• 38:18
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: China didn't have enough doctors
• 38:18
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: and could never have enough
• 38:22
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: doctors at the time of the
• 38:22
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: revolution.
• 38:25
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: So he set about saying, Well,
• 38:25
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: what we need is to find a way to
• 38:31
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: provide medicine to the masses
• 38:31
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: of China.
• 38:34
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: And there is an awful lot of
• 38:34
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: people in China. And so they
• 38:38
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: collected anecdotes, old
• 38:38
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: writings, and they produced a
• 38:46
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: textbook for what were called
• 38:46
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: barefoot doctors
• 38:51
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: going into the the villages of
• 38:51
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: China. And that has now
• 38:55
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: transmogrified into what is
• 38:55
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: called traditional Chinese
• 38:58
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: medicine.
• 38:59
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: But most of that will have no
• 38:59
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: credibility. Even then it
• 39:05
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: wouldn't have had much
• 39:05
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: credibility. It's just a set of
• 39:09
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: recipes.
• 39:10
  Julian Hoad: A lot of the
• 39:10
  Julian Hoad: anecdotal basis was fairly
• 39:15
  Julian Hoad: strong as anecdotes go. And so
• 39:15
  Julian Hoad: it was anecdotes from 1000s or
• 39:22
  Julian Hoad: 10s of 1000s of people, but with
• 39:22
  Julian Hoad: no real well,
• 39:28
  Julian Hoad: absolutely no scientific
• 39:28
  Julian Hoad: structure in place to ratify
• 39:35
  Julian Hoad: them. And so I guess I'm well
• 39:35
  Julian Hoad: aware that someone's recently
• 39:42
  Julian Hoad: been sued for slagging off
• 39:42
  Julian Hoad: traditional Chinese medicine.
• 39:50
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: I don't
• 39:50
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: think we've done that
• 39:54
  Julian Hoad: But what we need to
• 39:54
  Julian Hoad: make sure is that actually,
• 39:58
  Julian Hoad: we're dissing the fact that it's
• 39:58
  Julian Hoad: not 1000s of years old, as it's
• 40:04
  Julian Hoad: presented here and now.
• 40:06
  Julian Hoad: this is a modern representation
• 40:06
  Julian Hoad: of ideas, some of which may be
• 40:10
  Julian Hoad: 1000s of years old, some of
• 40:10
  Julian Hoad: which may be maybe 50 or so
• 40:14
  Julian Hoad: years old.
• 40:15
  Julian Hoad: But it's this sort of
• 40:15
  Julian Hoad: coalescence of ideas, some of
• 40:20
  Julian Hoad: which have seemed to help over
• 40:20
  Julian Hoad: the years, that was put together
• 40:24
  Julian Hoad: to try and fight a problem that
• 40:24
  Julian Hoad: they needed fighting,
• 40:28
  Julian Hoad: which was, as you say, they
• 40:28
  Julian Hoad: didn't have enough doctors, they
• 40:30
  Julian Hoad: didn't have enough medicine
• 40:30
  Julian Hoad: capabilities to serve their
• 40:34
  Julian Hoad: nation, and they needed to,
• 40:35
  Julian Hoad: because they didn't have the
• 40:35
  Julian Hoad: drugs or the ability to get them
• 40:38
  Julian Hoad: in. So they had to try and find
• 40:38
  Julian Hoad: other ways that people on the
• 40:41
  Julian Hoad: ground could treat them.
• 40:42
  Mike Brampton: Well, some of
• 40:42
  Mike Brampton: this has got to be based in
• 40:46
  Mike Brampton: science that was unknown at the
• 40:46
  Mike Brampton: time. I mean, if we look at
• 40:50
  Mike Brampton: willow bark
• 40:55
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: But
• 40:55
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: there's, there's a step between
• 40:57
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: observing that it seems to work
• 40:57
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: and then proving it works with
• 41:01
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: the science
• 41:03
  Julian Hoad: because otherwise,
• 41:03
  Julian Hoad: otherwise, what you get is a
• 41:05
  Julian Hoad: teleological explanation for the
• 41:05
  Julian Hoad: results, you see.
• 41:09
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: Yeah
• 41:10
  Julian Hoad: You eat a certain
• 41:10
  Julian Hoad: herb, you feel better. Is that
• 41:14
  Julian Hoad: placebo? Is it medicine? I think
• 41:14
  Julian Hoad: its medicine in this case,
• 41:18
  Julian Hoad: because it happens more often
• 41:18
  Julian Hoad: than it doesn't happen.
• 41:22
  Julian Hoad: And, and then, if you like
• 41:22
  Julian Hoad: Western medicine comes in and
• 41:25
  Julian Hoad: says, okay, actually, let's,
• 41:25
  Julian Hoad: let's look at that.
• 41:28
  Julian Hoad: Yeah, actually, there is a null
• 41:28
  Julian Hoad: hypothesis that says it doesn't
• 41:32
  Julian Hoad: work, we've refuted that it does
• 41:32
  Julian Hoad: work.
• 41:34
  Julian Hoad: Let's isolate the chemicals that
• 41:34
  Julian Hoad: sees that, whereas a lot of
• 41:42
  Julian Hoad: traditional Chinese medicine is
• 41:42
  Julian Hoad: explained in ways that aren't
• 41:49
  Julian Hoad: following Western scientific
• 41:49
  Julian Hoad: protocols.
• 41:52
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: And it's
• 41:52
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: not being tested in those
• 41:54
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: Western ways. And, and I, you
• 41:54
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: know, you could say that's a
• 41:58
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: cultural difference, but I think
• 41:58
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: it's a little more to it than
• 42:01
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: that.
• 42:02
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: And I'll say, you know, the, one
• 42:02
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: of the difference I notice is, I
• 42:07
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: noticed in pets in China is that
• 42:07
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: they didn't really understand
• 42:14
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: the idea of evidence based
• 42:14
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: medicine,
• 42:17
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: and they're not very
• 42:17
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: discriminatory at the treatments
• 42:20
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: they use. So, you know, if a dog
• 42:20
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: has heart disease, well, if a
• 42:29
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: dog has any disease, they there
• 42:29
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: will always be a diagnosis.
• 42:34
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: Uncertainty is not something
• 42:34
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: that Chinese vets or Chinese
• 42:39
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: clients are comfortable with.
• 42:39
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: They like to have a name.
• 42:43
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: And once you have a diagnosis,
• 42:43
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: of course, then you have to have
• 42:45
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: a treatment.
• 42:48
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: And if you look at heart
• 42:48
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: disease, there's maybe five
• 42:51
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: classes of drugs we might use
• 42:51
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: for treating heart disease, I
• 42:55
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: guess, I'm a surgeon but that
• 42:55
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: would be my guess.
• 42:58
  Julian Hoad: Well, you have a
• 42:58
  Julian Hoad: certificate in cardiology so I
• 43:01
  Julian Hoad: think you can
• 43:07
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: So the
• 43:07
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: answer of course is, every dog
• 43:09
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: with heart disease has five dogs
• 43:13
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: that makes perfect sense.
• 43:15
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: Why would, why would not every
• 43:15
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: dog have Pimobendan and (ACE)
• 43:21
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: inhibitors and maybe Cynthia
• 43:21
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: Johnson? Why would you not?
• 43:25
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: Because it's got a heart
• 43:25
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: disease. So we should treat all
• 43:28
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: aspects in every case. And you
• 43:28
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: know, and even more so there's
• 43:35
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: difficulty with access to
• 43:35
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: medications in China.
• 43:39
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: Chinese veterinary hospitals are
• 43:39
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: only allowed to stock licenced
• 43:44
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: veterinary products. And there's
• 43:44
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: not all that many of them and a
• 43:48
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: selection of human generic type
• 43:48
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: products.
• 43:55
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: It will be against the law to
• 43:55
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: stock unlicensed veterinary
• 43:59
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: products.
• 44:01
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: Getting
• 44:01
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: back to this dog with heart
• 44:01
  Julian Hoad: Interesting
• 44:07
  Julian Hoad: disease. So, you might want to
• 44:07
  Julian Hoad: give it, you know, so many
• 44:11
  Julian Hoad: milligrammes of Sildenafil, but
• 44:11
  Julian Hoad: you don't have access to that in
• 44:16
  Julian Hoad: a in a useful form,
• 44:18
  Julian Hoad: all you have is the blue tablets
• 44:18
  Julian Hoad: that are for older men, and you
• 44:24
  Julian Hoad: know that the dog needs much
• 44:24
  Julian Hoad: less than a whole blue tablet.
• 44:28
  Julian Hoad: So you break a bit off. So, and
• 44:28
  Julian Hoad: then he needs some Pimobendan as
• 44:36
  Julian Hoad: well. And again, because it's a
• 44:36
  Julian Hoad: tiny little dog, then you know,
• 44:41
  Julian Hoad: you don't need to give it a
• 44:41
  Julian Hoad: whole Pimobendan tablet and you
• 44:44
  Julian Hoad: don't have the range of tablets
• 44:44
  Julian Hoad: available, and it's probably not
• 44:48
  Julian Hoad: licenced in China anyway.
• 44:49
  Julian Hoad: So what you have has appeared in
• 44:49
  Julian Hoad: somebody's suitcase carried in
• 44:53
  Julian Hoad: from another country.
• 44:58
  Julian Hoad: And then some furosemide. And
• 44:58
  Julian Hoad: you can't get furosemide
• 45:02
  Julian Hoad: paediatric suspension, your dog
• 45:02
  Julian Hoad: only weighs two kilos. So you
• 45:05
  Julian Hoad: need an eighth of a human tablet
• 45:09
  Julian Hoad: Well, the obvious thing, of
• 45:09
  Julian Hoad: course, is you have your
• 45:12
  Julian Hoad: technician to dice up all these
• 45:12
  Julian Hoad: medications, put them in a blue
• 45:15
  Julian Hoad: and white capsule
• 45:18
  Julian Hoad: You take a blue and white
• 45:18
  Julian Hoad: capsule twice a day. And then
• 45:23
  Julian Hoad: when they come to see Mr Hotston
• 45:23
  Julian Hoad: Moore
• 45:25
  Julian Hoad: Mr Hotston Moore says 'Well,
• 45:25
  Julian Hoad: what is your pet receiving now?
• 45:29
  Julian Hoad: Because, you know, you've fallen
• 45:29
  Julian Hoad: out with the last vet. So you
• 45:32
  Julian Hoad: want to come and see me?'
• 45:34
  Julian Hoad: And as you know, I'm well known
• 45:34
  Julian Hoad: for my cardiology skills. So
• 45:38
  Julian Hoad: 'what are you giving your dog
• 45:38
  Julian Hoad: now?' 'I'm giving a blue on
• 45:41
  Julian Hoad: white capsule'. Yes. And whats
• 45:41
  Julian Hoad: in that we don't know
• 45:46
  Julian Hoad: No idea
• 45:47
  Mike Brampton: Wow.
• 45:48
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: And it
• 45:48
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: can be quite hard to find out
• 45:51
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: what is in it because the other
• 45:51
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: vet may not have wanted to tell
• 45:55
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: them, because he or she wants to
• 45:55
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: supply the drugs themselves.
• 46:00
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: Or they're not good.
• 46:04
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: You know, lots of practices
• 46:04
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: don't keep very good records. A
• 46:07
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: lot of them are using written
• 46:07
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: records, if anything at all.
• 46:13
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: If you phone and speak to the
• 46:13
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: receptionist, your never going
• 46:15
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: to get an answer from the
• 46:15
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: receptionist, she can't call it
• 46:18
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: up on the computer and tell you
• 46:18
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: what's been given,
• 46:21
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: might be written down on a piece
• 46:21
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: of paper, and if your lucky at
• 46:23
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: some point, you'll get a scan of
• 46:23
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: a piece of paper.
• 46:27
  Mike Brampton: Wow!
• 46:28
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: That's
• 46:28
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: quite, quite different world
• 46:30
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: yeah
• 46:30
  Julian Hoad: So what's owner
• 46:30
  Julian Hoad: concordance like?
• 46:34
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: Not very
• 46:34
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: good. You know, if you give the
• 46:37
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: tablets for three days, and they
• 46:37
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: work you might as well stop now.
• 46:40
  Julian Hoad: And you got some in
• 46:40
  Julian Hoad: the cupboard
• 46:42
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: Give the
• 46:42
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: tablet for three days and it
• 46:43
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: hasn't worked you may as well
• 46:43
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: stop now.
• 46:48
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: And yeah, this happened all the
• 46:48
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: time. Much more so in that, I've
• 46:54
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: never worked, as you know, first
• 46:54
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: opinion practice in the UK.
• 46:56
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: So I don't have quite the
• 46:56
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: reliable barometer. But I don't
• 47:01
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: get the impression that so often
• 47:01
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: in the UK,
• 47:03
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: people would just change doses
• 47:03
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: and frequencies by themselves
• 47:08
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: without interacting with the vet
• 47:11
  Julian Hoad: It happens, it
• 47:11
  Julian Hoad: happens more often than that
• 47:14
  Julian Hoad: they like to think
• 47:15
  Julian Hoad: I've got a lot of clients that I
• 47:15
  Julian Hoad: think are brilliant, and they
• 47:18
  Julian Hoad: always do things the way I want
• 47:18
  Julian Hoad: them to.
• 47:20
  Julian Hoad: And I said to one of them, A few
• 47:20
  Julian Hoad: months back over the phone when
• 47:29
  Julian Hoad: we weren't allowed to see
• 47:29
  Julian Hoad: people, I said, her dog had been
• 47:34
  Julian Hoad: bitten.
• 47:35
  Julian Hoad: I said, look, I think, I've got
• 47:35
  Julian Hoad: to say that you need some
• 47:37
  Julian Hoad: antibiotics. She said 'I've got
• 47:37
  Julian Hoad: some of the pink ones left.'
• 47:43
  Julian Hoad: Whats that your saying? 'Yes.
• 47:43
  Julian Hoad: Hold on. Sinew legs. Yes.'
• 47:52
  Julian Hoad: I gave you a course sinew locks
• 47:52
  Julian Hoad: two years ago for your dog.
• 47:55
  Julian Hoad: 'That's right. Yes, there was
• 47:55
  Julian Hoad: some left.'
• 47:58
  Julian Hoad: Like, there's a course you give
• 47:58
  Julian Hoad: the whole of the course.
• 48:03
  Mike Brampton: No, I give him a
• 48:03
  Mike Brampton: couple over the week.
• 48:08
  Julian Hoad: exactly the same.
• 48:10
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: But I
• 48:10
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: think it happens more. And you
• 48:12
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: know, when we had a little, you
• 48:12
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: know, because as you know, I'm
• 48:16
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: also well known for my skills in
• 48:16
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: Urology.
• 48:18
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: So I did Urology cases. Yeah.
• 48:18
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: This kitten that was having
• 48:27
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: seizures, and we started it, we
• 48:27
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: managed to get hold of some
• 48:31
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: liquid phenobarbitone.
• 48:34
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: Not an easy thing to do, but, we
• 48:34
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: got hold of some of that.
• 48:39
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: And after we were resupplying
• 48:39
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: it, and so on. And after a
• 48:43
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: while, I hadn't heard for ages
• 48:43
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: and then they came back to us
• 48:45
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: 'we need some more now.'
• 48:48
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: You should have needed some more
• 48:48
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: about three months ago, so what?
• 48:52
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: Well, I know you said to give it
• 48:52
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: one meal, three times a day, and
• 48:56
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: we did that and then seemed to
• 48:56
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: be going alright.
• 48:59
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: So we dropped it down to one
• 48:59
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: meal twice a day and seemed to
• 49:02
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: be going alright. So and we're
• 49:02
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: giving a half a meal once a day
• 49:05
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: for the last.
• 49:06
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: This is why we haven't needed
• 49:06
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: any more. And you may as well
• 49:10
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: have stopped then you know that,
• 49:10
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: because that's, that's not going
• 49:13
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: to be doing anything.
• 49:15
  Julian Hoad: Yeah.
• 49:17
  Mike Brampton: I've got
• 49:17
  Mike Brampton: veterinary practices that change
• 49:19
  Mike Brampton: their disposables on a similar
• 49:19
  Mike Brampton: sort of basis.
• 49:26
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: Vets
• 49:26
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: don't like to dispose of
• 49:28
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: anything, do they, you know,
• 49:28
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: that's why
• 49:32
  Mike Brampton: Even though we
• 49:32
  Mike Brampton: can make a single patient, human
• 49:35
  Mike Brampton: disposable last a month, some
• 49:35
  Mike Brampton: practices still managed to try
• 49:38
  Mike Brampton: and make them last six months.
• 49:40
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: Oh,
• 49:40
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: absolutely.
• 49:42
  Mike Brampton: Okay, so, so
• 49:42
  Mike Brampton: Alasdair.
• 49:44
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: Yes.
• 49:45
  Mike Brampton: We have a
• 49:45
  Mike Brampton: challenge on the show called the
• 49:47
  Mike Brampton: 60 Second CPD challenge.
• 49:51
  Mike Brampton: How do you feel?
• 49:52
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: I'm up
• 49:52
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: for this. I'm not gonna rush my
• 49:56
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: words, but I have a philosophy
• 49:56
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: to share with you
• 50:00
  Mike Brampton: You have a
• 50:00
  Mike Brampton: philosophy. Is this a Chinese
• 50:02
  Mike Brampton: philosophy or an English?
• 50:03
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: no, this
• 50:03
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: is Alasdair's philosophy of
• 50:07
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: teaching
• 50:08
  Mike Brampton: Alasdair's
• 50:08
  Mike Brampton: philosophy. Okay, well in that
• 50:11
  Mike Brampton: case then Alasdair, please share
• 50:11
  Mike Brampton: with us in 60 seconds Alasdair's
• 50:17
  Mike Brampton: philosophy of teaching starting
• 50:17
  Mike Brampton: now.
• 50:25
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: So I'm
• 50:25
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: particularly thinking of surgery
• 50:28
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: cases, when we learn to do
• 50:28
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: things, I strongly believe we
• 50:31
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: should learn to do simple things
• 50:31
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: well.
• 50:35
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: We should choose methods for
• 50:35
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: surgical treatments that are
• 50:41
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: relatively straightforward, with
• 50:41
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: fewer steps, and then focusing
• 50:46
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: on doing them well,
• 50:48
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: rather than looking for methods
• 50:48
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: that's becoming increasingly
• 50:51
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: complicated. And because
• 50:51
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: something is more complicated,
• 50:56
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: we are more likely not to
• 50:56
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: complete the steps accurately.
• 51:00
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: And we're more likely,
• 51:00
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: therefore, to end with a less
• 51:03
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: satisfactory result.
• 51:05
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: So you might have two
• 51:05
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: techniques, one of which has a
• 51:10
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: 90% outcome if done well. And
• 51:10
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: one which has a 95% outcome, if
• 51:16
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: done well.
• 51:17
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: But if you can not deliver it to
• 51:17
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: the satisfactory conclusion, you
• 51:23
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: will not do well.
• 51:27
  Julian Hoad: That's close
• 51:27
  Julian Hoad: enough. That's fantastic.
• 51:29
  Mike Brampton: That's fabulous
• 51:30
  Julian Hoad: That's brilliant,
• 51:30
  Julian Hoad: that's 60 second CPD.
• 51:32
  Mike Brampton: 60 second CPD.
• 51:32
  Mike Brampton: Excellent. So what you're
• 51:35
  Mike Brampton: actually advocating now is keep
• 51:35
  Mike Brampton: it simple,
• 51:39
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: absolutely
• 51:39
  Mike Brampton: stupid.
• 51:41
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: By keep
• 51:41
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: it simple for, you know, for a
• 51:45
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: reason that I've tried to point
• 51:45
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: out there.
• 51:49
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: You know, there's, it's all very
• 51:49
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: well to say, Oh, you know,
• 51:53
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: Professor Herr Dr. Schmidt has
• 51:53
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: shown that this is a superior
• 51:58
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: technique, because it says that
• 51:58
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: his success rate is 95%.
• 52:01
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: So we should follow Professor
• 52:01
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: Herr Dr. Schmidt's technique.
• 52:04
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: But of course, if we don't do
• 52:04
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: that technique very often,
• 52:08
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: chances are we can't deliver it
• 52:08
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: to that level of technical
• 52:13
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: accuracy. And therefore, it's
• 52:13
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: not the right technique to use
• 52:18
  Julian Hoad: We had a chat, I
• 52:18
  Julian Hoad: can't remember who with, one of
• 52:23
  Julian Hoad: our guests a while back on
• 52:23
  Julian Hoad: levels of competency. And this,
• 52:27
  Julian Hoad: I guess, fits in with that,
• 52:27
  Julian Hoad: doesn't it?
• 52:30
  Julian Hoad: You know, there are four levels
• 52:30
  Julian Hoad: of competency, there's
• 52:34
  Julian Hoad: unconscious incompetence, where
• 52:34
  Julian Hoad: you don't know what you don't
• 52:37
  Julian Hoad: know,
• 52:39
  Julian Hoad: you think a little bit better,
• 52:39
  Julian Hoad: and you know, what you don't
• 52:41
  Julian Hoad: know, but you still can't do it
• 52:41
  Julian Hoad: properly. So that's, that's
• 52:43
  Julian Hoad: conscious incompetence.
• 52:45
  Julian Hoad: And then you get ofay with it,
• 52:45
  Julian Hoad: you're able to do it, as long as
• 52:51
  Julian Hoad: you're concentrating, you're
• 52:51
  Julian Hoad: able to do it very well, that's
• 52:54
  Julian Hoad: conscious competence.
• 52:56
  Julian Hoad: And then you get to the stage
• 52:56
  Julian Hoad: where you can do it, in the the
• 52:59
  Julian Hoad: old fashioned way, with your
• 52:59
  Julian Hoad: eyes shut up, one hand behind
• 53:02
  Julian Hoad: your back. And that's
• 53:02
  Julian Hoad: unconscious competence.
• 53:05
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: Yeah.
• 53:06
  Julian Hoad: And so whatever you
• 53:06
  Julian Hoad: do, you get to the stage of at
• 53:10
  Julian Hoad: least conscious competence.
• 53:10
  Julian Hoad: Before progressing forwards. I
• 53:14
  Julian Hoad: guess that's, that's what you're
• 53:14
  Julian Hoad: advocating is it?
• 53:17
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: It is
• 53:17
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: and what if we look at the
• 53:21
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: particular discipline of surgery
• 53:27
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: We as vets, even those of us
• 53:27
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: that primarily do surgery,
• 53:35
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: unless we spent some time in
• 53:35
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: China and developed our skills
• 53:38
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: in dermatology, cardiology, and
• 53:38
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: dentistry,
• 53:46
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: Even those of us that have
• 53:46
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: developed a discipline of
• 53:50
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: surgery or, in my case,
• 53:50
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: particular soft tissue surgery,
• 53:53
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: and particularly in dogs and
• 53:53
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: cats.
• 53:56
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: I'm actually a real generalist
• 53:56
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: compared to the man that I would
• 54:03
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: want to do my hip replacement.
• 54:03
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: I'm a real generalist.
• 54:08
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: And therefore, we have to be
• 54:08
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: careful to choose surgical
• 54:12
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: therapies that can be delivered
• 54:12
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: by people without the same
• 54:17
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: experience and
• 54:19
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: specialist training that we
• 54:19
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: might expect in our medical
• 54:22
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: colleagues. That's my point. And
• 54:22
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: you know, it's true for me as
• 54:28
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: somebody who's disciplined
• 54:28
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: focused in soft tissue surgery,
• 54:31
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: it's even more so for general
• 54:31
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: practitioners who are doing
• 54:36
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: surgery together with all those
• 54:36
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: other things that they have to
• 54:40
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: do.
• 54:41
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: And so when we see some complex
• 54:41
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: surgical techniques published,
• 54:46
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: and then they're promoted as the
• 54:46
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: best thing since sliced bread,
• 54:51
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: that might be true in the hands
• 54:51
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: of those that get to practice
• 54:55
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: them and have all the right gear
• 54:55
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: to do them and have reached
• 54:59
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: conscious conscious competence
• 55:01
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: or unconscious competence
• 55:04
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: But most people are never going
• 55:04
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: to reach that level. And
• 55:08
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: therefore, it's much better to,
• 55:08
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: to learn a technique that can be
• 55:11
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: delivered reliably.
• 55:12
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: Even if the final outcome, if
• 55:12
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: you were to compare this
• 55:17
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: technique in the hands of
• 55:17
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: somebody who does it all the
• 55:19
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: time
• 55:19
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: compared to that technique in
• 55:19
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: the hands of somebody who does
• 55:22
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: it all the time, even if the
• 55:22
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: technique I'm teaching you is
• 55:26
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: less good outcomes
• 55:29
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: only has a 90% cure rate as
• 55:29
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: opposed to 95%. That's okay. If
• 55:36
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: the average person can deliver
• 55:36
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: it then that's what we're lookin
• 55:43
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: for
• 55:44
  Julian Hoad: So that's, that's
• 55:44
  Julian Hoad: an excellent 60 second CPD
• 55:48
  Julian Hoad: subject. Alasdair, I think
• 55:48
  Julian Hoad: that's deserving of of a CPD
• 55:56
  Julian Hoad: certificate,
• 55:57
  Mike Brampton: I think so to
• 55:58
  Julian Hoad: So if I could just
• 55:58
  Julian Hoad: read it out to people who
• 56:01
  Julian Hoad: haven't got access to video
• 56:01
  Julian Hoad: here. So I put 'Yipee, it's
• 56:05
  Julian Hoad: another Veterinary Ramblings
• 56:07
  Julian Hoad: and this confirms that all of
• 56:07
  Julian Hoad: you have paid attention and
• 56:10
  Julian Hoad: learn absolutely masses of all
• 56:10
  Julian Hoad: sorts of stuff, signed me & him'
• 56:17
  Julian Hoad: But it really is a salutary
• 56:17
  Julian Hoad: lesson this CPD subject because-
• 56:22
  Mike Brampton: What, we haven't
• 56:22
  Mike Brampton: done that at all, we haven't
• 56:28
  Mike Brampton: done fungi at all!
• 56:30
  Julian Hoad: We haven't, we
• 56:30
  Julian Hoad: haven't. No, no, it's not. It's
• 56:35
  Julian Hoad: not you see, there we go.
• 56:36
  Julian Hoad: They look like mushrooms. If
• 56:36
  Julian Hoad: people watching. I'm pointing at
• 56:41
  Julian Hoad: a picture on the CPD Certificate
• 56:41
  Julian Hoad: of what looks like three
• 56:45
  Julian Hoad: mushrooms.
• 56:47
  Julian Hoad: But they're not. You know what
• 56:47
  Julian Hoad: they are?
• 56:50
  Mike Brampton: Go on
• 56:51
  Julian Hoad: There are remnants
• 56:51
  Julian Hoad: of potatoes that have gone
• 56:53
  Julian Hoad: through my spiralizer. And it
• 56:53
  Julian Hoad: wastes a little core and the
• 56:58
  Julian Hoad: end. And they look like
• 56:58
  Julian Hoad: mushrooms.
• 57:01
  Julian Hoad: So this is why we must always be
• 57:01
  Julian Hoad: clear what we're dealing with,
• 57:05
  Julian Hoad: look and look again, to be
• 57:05
  Julian Hoad: absolutely certain of what
• 57:09
  Julian Hoad: you're dealing with.
• 57:11
  Mike Brampton: What's a
• 57:11
  Mike Brampton: spiralizer?
• 57:14
  Julian Hoad: You haven't got a
• 57:14
  Julian Hoad: spiralizer. Mike, where have you
• 57:17
  Julian Hoad: been?
• 57:17
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: Is this
• 57:17
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: like a nutribullet or something?
• 57:22
  Mike Brampton: No idea
• 57:23
  Julian Hoad: it shreds
• 57:23
  Julian Hoad: vegetables into a spiral. And
• 57:27
  Julian Hoad: therefore clearly makes them
• 57:27
  Julian Hoad: healthier?
• 57:30
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: So it is
• 57:30
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: like a noodle? Yeah,
• 57:32
  Julian Hoad: yeah. Yeah, pretty
• 57:32
  Julian Hoad: much
• 57:34
  Mike Brampton: so they come out
• 57:34
  Mike Brampton: crispier when you deep fry them?
• 57:36
  Mike Brampton: Is that what you're saying?
• 57:36
  Julian Hoad: Yeah, absolutely.
• 57:38
  Julian Hoad: And I use goose fat. I don't
• 57:38
  Julian Hoad: know if other forms of deep
• 57:42
  Julian Hoad: frying are available but good
• 57:42
  Julian Hoad: deep fried potato.
• 57:48
  Mike Brampton: So all is not as
• 57:48
  Mike Brampton: it seems. Carry on then.
• 57:50
  Julian Hoad: All is not as it
• 57:50
  Julian Hoad: seems, there we go. This is a
• 57:53
  Julian Hoad: bee on some lavender.
• 57:55
  Mike Brampton: No, I don't
• 57:55
  Mike Brampton: believe.
• 57:56
  Julian Hoad: So I thought we
• 57:56
  Julian Hoad: might touch on alternative
• 57:58
  Julian Hoad: therapies tonight. And lavender
• 57:58
  Julian Hoad: clearly has other medical
• 58:04
  Julian Hoad: properties.
• 58:05
  Julian Hoad: And honey, we're now using quite
• 58:05
  Julian Hoad: often, are we not, in place of
• 58:11
  Julian Hoad: antibiotics to treat infections.
• 58:15
  Julian Hoad: So there we go
• 58:17
  Mike Brampton: And wound healing
• 58:19
  Julian Hoad: And thats a daft
• 58:19
  Julian Hoad: picture of me wearing a mask
• 58:22
  Julian Hoad: with a Chinese dragon on the
• 58:22
  Julian Hoad: front of it.
• 58:24
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: Ah,
• 58:24
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: lovely.
• 58:26
  Mike Brampton: Very good
• 58:28
  Mike Brampton: Okay, well, I mean, it's all
• 58:28
  Mike Brampton: very well us putting forward our
• 58:31
  Mike Brampton: certificate and our CPD. But of
• 58:31
  Mike Brampton: course, as Alasdair will I'm
• 58:36
  Mike Brampton: sure be aware, Welcome back to
• 58:36
  Mike Brampton: the UK.
• 58:39
  Mike Brampton: Now back into the heart of the
• 58:39
  Mike Brampton: RCVS. There are certain
• 58:43
  Mike Brampton: requirements for CPD to be
• 58:43
  Mike Brampton: classified as CPD. And one of
• 58:48
  Mike Brampton: the key requirements there,
• 58:51
  Mike Brampton: is that you have to reflect on
• 58:51
  Mike Brampton: the learning message that you
• 58:55
  Mike Brampton: have received during the CPD. So
• 58:55
  Mike Brampton: Alasdair if I could formally
• 59:01
  Mike Brampton: invite you please just to
• 59:02
  Mike Brampton: join us on a moment's reflection
• 59:02
  Mike Brampton: on the CPD this evening.
• 59:08
  Mike Brampton: He has watched it look, I can
• 59:08
  Mike Brampton: see that he's definitely watched
• 59:14
  Mike Brampton: it.
• 59:16
  Julian Hoad: He's seen it before
• 59:16
  Julian Hoad: he's cheating
• 59:17
  Mike Brampton: He's cheating.
• 59:17
  Mike Brampton: He's seen it before. It is just
• 59:19
  Mike Brampton: to natural on this one.
• 59:21
  Julian Hoad: I must clean those
• 59:21
  Julian Hoad: blinds.
• 59:22
  Mike Brampton: Yeah.
• 59:24
  Julian Hoad: Alasdair, I
• 59:24
  Julian Hoad: normally round off the evening
• 59:27
  Julian Hoad: with a joke, which usually goes
• 59:27
  Julian Hoad: down very badly. But tonight, I
• 59:32
  Julian Hoad: thought I'd try something a
• 59:32
  Julian Hoad: little bit different.
• 59:34
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: Are you
• 59:34
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: going to dance for us, no?
• 59:36
  Julian Hoad: I'm going to do
• 59:36
  Julian Hoad: your 60 second CPD in the medium
• 59:40
  Julian Hoad: of modern dance.
• 59:41
  Julian Hoad: No, no, I'm not.
• 59:42
  Julian Hoad: I'm going to give you a bit of a
• 59:42
  Julian Hoad: mathematical conundrum because I
• 59:45
  Julian Hoad: know that maths is one of your
• 59:45
  Julian Hoad: subject. So here's the thing.
• 59:52
  Julian Hoad: I'm gonna give you a series of
• 59:52
  Julian Hoad: four numbers. And I want you to
• 59:55
  Julian Hoad: tell me the odd one out. Okay.
• 59:55
  Julian Hoad: 15, 17, 23 & 42. Any ideas?
• 1:00:03
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: Well, I
• 1:00:03
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: was looking for a prime number,
• 1:00:05
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: but there's two prime numbers
• 1:00:05
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: hiding
• 1:00:09
  Julian Hoad: Well spotted, do
• 1:00:09
  Julian Hoad: you want to pick one of these
• 1:00:12
  Julian Hoad: prime numbers, for example,
• 1:00:14
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: I've got
• 1:00:14
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: to go 17
• 1:00:17
  Julian Hoad: You're absolutely
• 1:00:17
  Julian Hoad: right.
• 1:00:18
  Julian Hoad: You know why?
• 1:00:20
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: No,
• 1:00:21
  Julian Hoad: because the others
• 1:00:21
  Julian Hoad: come with fried rice. I thought
• 1:00:27
  Julian Hoad: you'd know that living in China
• 1:00:27
  Julian Hoad: for 18 months.
• 1:00:31
  Mike Brampton: Oh, spare us, oh,
• 1:00:31
  Mike Brampton: dog help us.
• 1:00:41
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: I'm
• 1:00:41
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: gonna say that's not how Chinese
• 1:00:42
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: food works.
• 1:00:49
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: Only people that can't afford
• 1:00:49
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: other things eat rice, you know
• 1:00:51
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: that?
• 1:00:52
  Julian Hoad: Is that right?
• 1:00:56
  Julian Hoad: We had some German friends of
• 1:00:56
  Julian Hoad: ours stayed with us a few years
• 1:01:02
  Julian Hoad: back. And we went to a Chinese
• 1:01:02
  Julian Hoad: restaurant and they said, oh,
• 1:01:09
  Julian Hoad: gosh, it's so much what do we go
• 1:01:09
  Julian Hoad: for?
• 1:01:11
  Julian Hoad: And so we ordered it,
• 1:01:11
  Julian Hoad: ultimately. And we gave the
• 1:01:18
  Julian Hoad: numbers to the to the waiter.
• 1:01:18
  Julian Hoad: And they said, What, why? Why do
• 1:01:22
  Julian Hoad: you? Why do you do the numbers?
• 1:01:24
  Julian Hoad: I was in a cheeky mood and I
• 1:01:24
  Julian Hoad: said, Well, in England, every
• 1:01:28
  Julian Hoad: Chinese menu has exactly the
• 1:01:28
  Julian Hoad: same numbers.
• 1:01:32
  Julian Hoad: So if you worder 33 anywhere.
• 1:01:32
  Julian Hoad: It's always a pork in black bean
• 1:01:36
  Julian Hoad: sauce.
• 1:01:37
  Julian Hoad: Really? I said yeah. Is it not
• 1:01:37
  Julian Hoad: the same in Germany? No, no. we
• 1:01:43
  Julian Hoad: order it.
• 1:01:44
  Julian Hoad: It's completely illogical. Okay,
• 1:01:44
  Julian Hoad: I fancy prawns and bamboo shoots
• 1:01:54
  Julian Hoad: tonight, what is that Sylvia?
• 1:01:54
  Julian Hoad: She said its a 27.
• 1:01:58
  Julian Hoad: And so we caught them believing
• 1:01:58
  Julian Hoad: it. They went on to Oxford
• 1:02:06
  Julian Hoad: afterwards. They made a note of
• 1:02:06
  Julian Hoad: what we had that night,
• 1:02:11
  Julian Hoad: They went to this Chinese
• 1:02:11
  Julian Hoad: restaurant and they ordered- 'I
• 1:02:16
  Julian Hoad: know what we ordered the other
• 1:02:16
  Julian Hoad: night. Here we go. Yeah. You
• 1:02:19
  Julian Hoad: don't do a 70, It's just rice
• 1:02:19
  Julian Hoad: are you sure? Okay.'
• 1:02:34
  Julian Hoad: They are speaking to me again
• 1:02:34
  Julian Hoad: now.
• 1:02:36
  Mike Brampton: Good. Dog help
• 1:02:36
  Mike Brampton: us. So yeah, if I could say,
• 1:02:41
  Mike Brampton: Alasdair, thank you very, very
• 1:02:41
  Mike Brampton: much indeed, for sharing some of
• 1:02:44
  Mike Brampton: your experiences with us.
• 1:02:46
  Mike Brampton: And to our audience, either on
• 1:02:46
  Mike Brampton: video or on audio, Spotify,
• 1:02:52
  Mike Brampton: iTunes, please click like below,
• 1:02:52
  Mike Brampton: subscribe, and we'll keep you in
• 1:02:56
  Mike Brampton: touch with what we're what we're
• 1:02:56
  Mike Brampton: up to.
• 1:02:59
  Mike Brampton: And keep on bringing you some
• 1:02:59
  Mike Brampton: very interesting guests from our
• 1:03:04
  Mike Brampton: environment across the world.
• 1:03:04
  Mike Brampton: And so if I could ask you to
• 1:03:08
  Mike Brampton: raise your glasses.
• 1:03:09
  Mike Brampton: I see you've charged yours
• 1:03:09
  Mike Brampton: there, Julian.
• 1:03:11
  Julian Hoad: I have
• 1:03:12
  Mike Brampton: We'll sign off in
• 1:03:12
  Mike Brampton: a traditional way Alasdair
• 1:03:15
  Mike Brampton: Hotston Moore, Thank you very
• 1:03:15
  Mike Brampton: much indeed. And May your dog go
• 1:03:19
  Mike Brampton: with you.
• 1:03:20
  Julian Hoad: May your dog go
• 1:03:20
  Julian Hoad: with you Alasdair Thank you so
• 1:03:22
  Julian Hoad: much
• 1:03:22
  Mike Brampton: Cheers, thank you
• 1:03:22
  Mike Brampton: very much indeed. and Cut!
• 1:03:30
  Julian Hoad: There we go.
• 1:03:33
  Mike Brampton: Have you enjoyed
• 1:03:33
  Mike Brampton: yourself?
• 1:03:34
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: Oh,
• 1:03:34
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: absolutely.
• 1:03:36
  Alasdair Hotston Moore: Thank you for your invitation.