Latest / Constellations and all that... / 52. When Horses Become Healers in the Constellation Field with Jenny Gibbons

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52. When Horses Become Healers in the Constellation Field with Jenny Gibbons · Constellations and all that...

• 0:00
  Tracy Cartwright: And welcome to Constellations and all that.
• 0:02
  Tracy Cartwright: I'm your host, Tracy Cartwright, and together we will be exploring the world of family constellations with facilitators for and clients from around the world, looking at different perspectives and experiences in the work, having a cup of tea, and just chatting with some friends around their experiences in constellations.
• 0:18
  Tracy Cartwright: We'd love for you to join us.
• 0:20
  Tracy Cartwright: I hope that you enjoy this series as much as I have loved making it.
• 0:26
  Tracy Cartwright: Kiata everyone, and welcome to Constellations and all that.
• 0:29
  Tracy Cartwright: Today I have the pleasure of talking to my friend and colleague, Jenny Gibbons.
• 0:34
  Tracy Cartwright: Hey Jenny.
• 0:34
  Tracy Cartwright: How are you?
• 0:35
  Jenny Gibbons: Kiara.
• 0:35
  Jenny Gibbons: Tracy, I'm very well.
• 0:36
  Jenny Gibbons: How are you?
• 0:37
  Tracy Cartwright: Great.
• 0:38
  Tracy Cartwright: Uh, if you are watching this, I hope people can see this on their screens.
• 0:42
  Tracy Cartwright: Jenny's actually out in the paddock and the horses are running around and we're just gonna change the angle of the camera so we can see them.
• 0:47
  Tracy Cartwright: They're coming up to the screen to be in front of us.
• 0:49
  Tracy Cartwright: They might be, they might be coming in.
• 0:51
  Tracy Cartwright: Let's, um, share a little bit about what you do, Jenny, so people understand why we are so excited about the horses being on the podcast.
• 0:57
  Jenny Gibbons: Yeah.
• 0:57
  Jenny Gibbons: I was just holding the dog because the dog will bite the horse and then there'll be a lot more movement.
• 1:02
  Jenny Gibbons: So what I do is work with my horses to help people with trauma.
• 1:07
  Jenny Gibbons: That's simple version.
• 1:08
  Tracy Cartwright: Beautiful.
• 1:09
  Jenny Gibbons: This is mystique.
• 1:10
  Jenny Gibbons: So she's come in, she's connection to say, hello.
• 1:13
  Tracy Cartwright: My mystique.
• 1:14
  Tracy Cartwright: Mystique is a beautiful white.
• 1:16
  Tracy Cartwright: Is there a name for what sort of horse she is?
• 1:18
  Jenny Gibbons: Uh, she's an Arab,
• 1:19
  Tracy Cartwright: a white Arab.
• 1:20
  Jenny Gibbons: Yeah.
• 1:21
  Jenny Gibbons: And therapy terms, Tracey's connection.
• 1:23
  Jenny Gibbons: So what I would be looking for if we were, you were the client, is that connections come into the picture straight away?
• 1:29
  Tracy Cartwright: Well, the rear end of it has,
• 1:31
  Jenny Gibbons: so are we at the ask end of connection.
• 1:33
  Tracy Cartwright: She's alright.
• 1:33
  Tracy Cartwright: Right?
• 1:33
  Tracy Cartwright: She's turned around.
• 1:34
  Tracy Cartwright: That's all good.
• 1:35
  Tracy Cartwright: I mean,
• 1:36
  Jenny Gibbons: when I do what I, I look for where people are standing with the horse.
• 1:40
  Jenny Gibbons: Like if you get little kids, they'll go straight to the heart area and most adults go to the head area and they'll stand there.
• 1:46
  Jenny Gibbons: 'cause most, a lot of people are in their heads.
• 1:48
  Jenny Gibbons: So I can see, you know, within the first five or 10 minutes what's happening for a person.
• 1:52
  Jenny Gibbons: Because a lot of the time from a psychology perspective, people, um, you know, they land with a whole lot of notes and a lot of assumptions that people have made, particularly, um, youth coming through the youth justice system.
• 2:02
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 2:02
  Tracy Cartwright: But
• 2:03
  Jenny Gibbons: at the heart of it is who they really are.
• 2:05
  Jenny Gibbons: And I think that's one of the reasons I've been successful in what I've done, because I look at who they are from a heart level.
• 2:11
  Tracy Cartwright: Yep.
• 2:12
  Tracy Cartwright: So for those who, who are listening, what do you call the modality?
• 2:19
  Tracy Cartwright: Because there's equine therapy, but that's not quite what you do, is it?
• 2:22
  Jenny Gibbons: No, I initially trained, um, in equine therapy with a gala.
• 2:26
  Jenny Gibbons: So a gala is a modality from the states, and that's well recognized around the world.
• 2:30
  Tracy Cartwright: Mm-hmm.
• 2:31
  Jenny Gibbons: And with that modality, I'm the most, I'm the only advanced equine specialist in this country.
• 2:36
  Jenny Gibbons: But what I got from that was that the horses are always doing their own constellation anyway, so it is horse constellations.
• 2:43
  Jenny Gibbons: And then when I.
• 2:46
  Jenny Gibbons: It was just a natural, um, progression from the horse constellation work to doing the people constellation work to doing it together.
• 2:53
  Tracy Cartwright: Absolutely.
• 2:53
  Tracy Cartwright: And that's where you and I met the first time we met.
• 2:56
  Tracy Cartwright: Um, I had a constellation with you, with your horses.
• 2:59
  Jenny Gibbons: Yeah.
• 2:59
  Tracy Cartwright: Many years ago.
• 3:00
  Jenny Gibbons: Yeah.
• 3:01
  Jenny Gibbons: And
• 3:01
  Tracy Cartwright: I'm not, did you wanna
• 3:02
  Jenny Gibbons: talk about that or not?
• 3:03
  Jenny Gibbons: Well,
• 3:03
  Tracy Cartwright: I, I wouldn't consider myself a horse person.
• 3:07
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 3:07
  Tracy Cartwright: In fact, they freaked me right out.
• 3:09
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 3:09
  Tracy Cartwright: And I had no real reason why.
• 3:10
  Tracy Cartwright: There was no reason that I know why, but, um, just used to little animals, I suppose.
• 3:15
  Tracy Cartwright: But I had, um, asked the question, it was around my business, and so I chose the biggest horse that you had to represent.
• 3:24
  Tracy Cartwright: Um,
• 3:25
  Jenny Gibbons: oh, just trace, this is just unique self.
• 3:27
  Jenny Gibbons: Sorry for interrupting, but as you're talking about that unique self has come into play.
• 3:30
  Jenny Gibbons: I
• 3:31
  Tracy Cartwright: dunno.
• 3:31
  Tracy Cartwright: Beautiful, um, brown and, and white horse, sort of a chocolatey color.
• 3:35
  Tracy Cartwright: Um, I, one of them, one of the horses I chose was for business and one was for my fear of stepping up into the business.
• 3:41
  Tracy Cartwright: And I think I chose the biggest horse to be the fear and the smallest horse to be a business.
• 3:44
  Tracy Cartwright: 'cause I thought, well, that'd be easier to connect with the smaller one.
• 3:47
  Tracy Cartwright: Well, I showed up was a little bit like a skit from a Benny Hill movie and I'm walking around the paddock trying to connect with the small horse who was just ignoring me and walking around and run Toodling off after it.
• 3:57
  Tracy Cartwright: And.
• 3:58
  Tracy Cartwright: The one that I chosen for fear was right behind me, and it was the big horse, and it kept following me around.
• 4:03
  Tracy Cartwright: And as soon as I turned around and looked at it, it was so soft and so gentle.
• 4:06
  Tracy Cartwright: It was my fear of stepping into the business.
• 4:07
  Tracy Cartwright: That's what it was.
• 4:08
  Tracy Cartwright: And um, and I had a really beautiful connection with her.
• 4:11
  Tracy Cartwright: And then I turned around and my business was walking towards me.
• 4:15
  Tracy Cartwright: From that moment on, I didn't have a problem, a stepping into my business, but also, um, with the horses either.
• 4:21
  Tracy Cartwright: It's beautiful.
• 4:22
  Tracy Cartwright: Beautiful experience and you held it so lovely.
• 4:24
  Tracy Cartwright: 'cause you could see that I was, um, that I had some fear around it, around the horses not so, yeah.
• 4:30
  Tracy Cartwright: So,
• 4:30
  Jenny Gibbons: but that's also what a lot of people do bring into sessions is fear.
• 4:33
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 4:34
  Tracy Cartwright: You
• 4:34
  Jenny Gibbons: know?
• 4:35
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 4:35
  Jenny Gibbons: And it's fear of moving forward.
• 4:37
  Jenny Gibbons: It's fear of where they're at.
• 4:38
  Jenny Gibbons: It's, it's a natural human thing to have fear.
• 4:41
  Jenny Gibbons: But the other thing that, um, we can all do is move beyond our fear.
• 4:44
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 4:44
  Tracy Cartwright: And the, and my understanding is that the horses, because they can read energy, um, so much more.
• 4:50
  Tracy Cartwright: Correct.
• 4:51
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 4:51
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 4:52
  Tracy Cartwright: They have a much bigger heart resonance
• 4:55
  Jenny Gibbons: than us,
• 4:55
  Tracy Cartwright: uh, mere human beings.
• 4:57
  Jenny Gibbons: Yeah.
• 4:58
  Jenny Gibbons: The electromagnetic field that they have is 15 times larger than a human heart.
• 5:03
  Jenny Gibbons: Mm-hmm.
• 5:03
  Jenny Gibbons: So this is a scientific way of de describing it, is that, uh, that electromagnetic field.
• 5:09
  Jenny Gibbons: Means for us as human beings, it changes our physiological being.
• 5:13
  Jenny Gibbons: So somebody with trauma will come in and you've seen people with trauma.
• 5:17
  Jenny Gibbons: It's like they're really tense, their whole body, you know, everything is tense.
• 5:20
  Jenny Gibbons: And when they come here, it's like they can just drop into relaxing and breathing.
• 5:24
  Jenny Gibbons: And from that, what happens with the trauma is it's going round, round in their brain.
• 5:28
  Jenny Gibbons: Again, a simple way of talking about it.
• 5:30
  Jenny Gibbons: But then when you come into the heart space, you can actually move that trauma in the way that they're thinking about it.
• 5:36
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 5:37
  Tracy Cartwright: Help that connection too, right?
• 5:39
  Jenny Gibbons: Yeah.
• 5:39
  Tracy Cartwright: That reconnecting.
• 5:40
  Tracy Cartwright: 'cause otherwise it's looping, but it's not connecting to anything.
• 5:43
  Tracy Cartwright: It's just looping.
• 5:43
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 5:45
  Jenny Gibbons: It's one of my, um, my triggers is when people talk about, um, having been triggered by their trauma, I feel that if you move through your trauma properly and integrate it with all the different bodies of yourself, like the, the human body, the emotional body, the spiritual body, different bodies of energy, but in the integration of all of that is when you move beyond the trauma.
• 6:05
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah, absolutely.
• 6:06
  Tracy Cartwright: So can you tell us what's going on in the field at the moment for those who can't see this?
• 6:10
  Tracy Cartwright: Um, there are higher levels and lower levels within the, um, paddock.
• 6:14
  Jenny Gibbons: Yeah.
• 6:15
  Tracy Cartwright: The horses are at different spaces.
• 6:17
  Jenny Gibbons: So this is the earth plane.
• 6:19
  Jenny Gibbons: So when we are working with someone, if they're on the earth plane, that's a good thing.
• 6:23
  Jenny Gibbons: But then if you move is in the highest self, because my belief system with the.
• 6:28
  Jenny Gibbons: Consolation work is that we have a higher self, we have our soul self, but we have our higher self.
• 6:33
  Jenny Gibbons: So when the horses are on the higher self, that's what's playing out in the field for the person.
• 6:38
  Tracy Cartwright: Okay.
• 6:38
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 6:38
  Jenny Gibbons: So the higher self of the uniqueness is what's playing out with Tom at the moment.
• 6:43
  Tracy Cartwright: Beautiful.
• 6:43
  Jenny Gibbons: And self-acceptance, which is Indy.
• 6:45
  Jenny Gibbons: There's, because we work energetically, like we've met the whole thing out.
• 6:50
  Jenny Gibbons: There's a medicine circle that we're working on, but there's also a chakra system, so.
• 6:55
  Jenny Gibbons: Indie, which is self-acceptance, is just sitting sort of in the heart area as well.
• 7:00
  Jenny Gibbons: And then Mystique.
• 7:02
  Jenny Gibbons: Mystique is in the connection.
• 7:05
  Jenny Gibbons: So the connection at the moment is in the place of new beginnings.
• 7:07
  Jenny Gibbons: So with the Medicine Circle, there's four different areas of new beginnings.
• 7:11
  Jenny Gibbons: So when you move over from the generational area, which is over that side, into this part here.
• 7:18
  Jenny Gibbons: That's when the soul and the human level are connecting in a place of new beginnings.
• 7:22
  Tracy Cartwright: Amazing.
• 7:22
  Tracy Cartwright: To watch them just to tune into the person and to see them do their actions or just to feel, you know, witness them doing the part for humanity.
• 7:32
  Jenny Gibbons: What I love trace is, um, it's just pure energy because, you know, we, you facilitate every person.
• 7:37
  Jenny Gibbons: I mean, we work in the field of consciousness and the field of energy, but everyone still brings their own stuff into it.
• 7:43
  Tracy Cartwright: Absolutely.
• 7:43
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 7:44
  Jenny Gibbons: But with the horses, it's just pure energy.
• 7:47
  Jenny Gibbons: And that's what I really love.
• 7:49
  Jenny Gibbons: And also because it's just all from a heart space and then that, almost turn it that way, they're almost lining up here with unique self being and connection.
• 7:57
  Jenny Gibbons: So in the middle is actually the connection spot, self-acceptance and truth.
• 8:01
  Jenny Gibbons: And then we've got connection, the horse and the place of new beginnings.
• 8:04
  Jenny Gibbons: And also trace the one that you've, um, switched into, which I think was your business.
• 8:08
  Jenny Gibbons: He's up there as well.
• 8:09
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 8:10
  Tracy Cartwright: Yep.
• 8:11
  Tracy Cartwright: There in the background.
• 8:12
  Jenny Gibbons: Yeah, so he's um, 34 now, which is really old for a horse.
• 8:15
  Jenny Gibbons: An old horse is termed old at 15.
• 8:18
  Jenny Gibbons: Yeah.
• 8:18
  Jenny Gibbons: So he's pretty much ancient.
• 8:20
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 8:21
  Jenny Gibbons: And also Venus, which is the other horse, the black and white one behind the barrel.
• 8:24
  Jenny Gibbons: That's love.
• 8:25
  Jenny Gibbons: So when I'm thinking about how this is working and playing out, the strength and love is in connection from the higher self.
• 8:31
  Tracy Cartwright: So tell bless Jenny.
• 8:32
  Tracy Cartwright: How do people come to you?
• 8:34
  Tracy Cartwright: How do people hear about you, um, and get to work with you?
• 8:37
  Jenny Gibbons: Most of my work is with, um, government departments.
• 8:42
  Jenny Gibbons: Um, ministry of Education.
• 8:43
  Jenny Gibbons: Um, we've worked do work for Maori Land Community Connections.
• 8:47
  Jenny Gibbons: We've got a website, so you can go on the website and then just contact me.
• 8:52
  Jenny Gibbons: But one of the things that I do, which is I think different from a lot of Constellation work is my minimum requirement usually is about 26 sessions when I'm working with a client because I enjoy working with trauma, like severe trauma.
• 9:05
  Jenny Gibbons: And what we do then is work through it with them.
• 9:08
  Jenny Gibbons: Usually it might be a year.
• 9:10
  Jenny Gibbons: It depends also on where they're situated.
• 9:12
  Jenny Gibbons: 'cause sometimes people have to move as well.
• 9:14
  Jenny Gibbons: Um, one woman I got, she had had been raped, tortured, and held hostage, and we had four weeks to work with her.
• 9:19
  Jenny Gibbons: Wow.
• 9:21
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 9:21
  Jenny Gibbons: You know, but we did it.
• 9:23
  Jenny Gibbons: And that again, she mainly worked with Ollie, a big guy.
• 9:25
  Tracy Cartwright: And you often work with children.
• 9:27
  Tracy Cartwright: I remember you telling me, um, that you really enjoy working with children.
• 9:31
  Jenny Gibbons: Yeah.
• 9:31
  Jenny Gibbons: I, the youngest that we've had, um, she was three and I didn't know if I could work with a 3-year-old.
• 9:36
  Jenny Gibbons: And she came up and she, um, had a whole lot of, you know, people come and they have all these different labels that have been put on them.
• 9:43
  Jenny Gibbons: And one of them was, um, about abandonment.
• 9:45
  Jenny Gibbons: Mm-hmm.
• 9:46
  Jenny Gibbons: And, um, she attachment.
• 9:48
  Jenny Gibbons: And she was so connected closely to her caregiver and when she came up here and she sussed us all out and all the rest of it.
• 9:54
  Jenny Gibbons: And um, and I said to her, just because being away from the caregiver was a big deal.
• 9:59
  Jenny Gibbons: And I just said, 'cause in the other room there's a bed.
• 10:02
  Jenny Gibbons: And I said, oh, you could always stay here.
• 10:04
  Jenny Gibbons: And she went, yeah, I'll be okay.
• 10:06
  Jenny Gibbons: Staying with you.
• 10:08
  Jenny Gibbons: Why do I, and this kid is so strong.
• 10:10
  Jenny Gibbons: She was so amazing.
• 10:11
  Jenny Gibbons: And then we worked with her over, I think, 12 months.
• 10:14
  Jenny Gibbons: She would come in monthly for a constellation, you know.
• 10:18
  Jenny Gibbons: The intergenerational trauma was huge in the family system.
• 10:22
  Jenny Gibbons: And she would come in and she would pick the different representatives, and then she would go upstairs onto the little loft and she would lie in bed and play on her thing.
• 10:30
  Jenny Gibbons: And then when the energy would shift, she would come in, check it out, sort of nod, and then go back and play on her thing.
• 10:35
  Jenny Gibbons: So you know that child's life is forever changed.
• 10:38
  Jenny Gibbons: And who she was and how she was is huge.
• 10:42
  Jenny Gibbons: Like, I think she's five or six now, but you know, one of the ways that she regulates herself is she goes into the bathroom after, um, school and she'll do a haka.
• 10:49
  Jenny Gibbons: Like that's her way of, um, regulating herself, like sort of removing all the stuff of the day.
• 10:53
  Jenny Gibbons: Wow.
• 10:54
  Tracy Cartwright: Beautiful.
• 10:54
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 10:55
  Jenny Gibbons: But when she came in the first session, kept saying to the kid, she was really freaked out that the horse was trying to lick her and this was Cruz whose truth, and she kept saying the horse was trying to lick me.
• 11:04
  Jenny Gibbons: The horse was trying to lick me.
• 11:06
  Jenny Gibbons: And we were both like, we don't know.
• 11:08
  Jenny Gibbons: Like the horse wasn't trying to lick her.
• 11:09
  Jenny Gibbons: There was incongruencies going on, and then when we put the pieces of the puzzle together, at that point in time with her family, the whanau, she had to go into a marae and have regular contact with them.
• 11:21
  Jenny Gibbons: And the person that was actually licking her was her 15-year-old brother.
• 11:25
  Jenny Gibbons: He was French kissing her.
• 11:26
  Jenny Gibbons: Yeah.
• 11:27
  Jenny Gibbons: So that child has avoided, hopefully all of that stuff, you know?
• 11:32
  Tracy Cartwright: Fantastic.
• 11:33
  Jenny Gibbons: Because the horse was trying to lick her, but really she was being groomed for sexual abuse.
• 11:38
  Jenny Gibbons: That's right.
• 11:38
  Jenny Gibbons: Yeah.
• 11:39
  Jenny Gibbons: Yeah.
• 11:40
  Jenny Gibbons: Um, one of the other stories was that we had this young person in who was maybe 13 at the time, and when, um, orang ran, I thought that before meeting him, what they were saying, I thought that he would either die from suicide, end up in a, um, youth justice system, going to jail and probably forever more, or end up in a gang.
• 12:01
  Jenny Gibbons: And we brought him in another first session.
• 12:04
  Jenny Gibbons: And the caregiver, the person that dropped him off, she turned up in high heels, which we live on a farm.
• 12:10
  Jenny Gibbons: So it sort of showed when she was there.
• 12:12
  Jenny Gibbons: 'cause most of the caregivers will come in with a client.
• 12:14
  Jenny Gibbons: And she also had a, um, van full of boys from the same institution.
• 12:18
  Jenny Gibbons: And they were just geering at him because he was going to equine therapy.
• 12:21
  Jenny Gibbons: And then I was working with Geraldine at the time and she was trying to get all the information from the care person about what was going on for this young person.
• 12:29
  Jenny Gibbons: And all the, she could say was how angry he was.
• 12:33
  Jenny Gibbons: That he would just destroy everything and the police would have to come all the time.
• 12:36
  Tracy Cartwright: That was
• 12:37
  Jenny Gibbons: the story.
• 12:37
  Jenny Gibbons: Do you know what I mean?
• 12:38
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 12:39
  Jenny Gibbons: And so in the first session, um, we got him to say why he was there or why he was coming.
• 12:45
  Jenny Gibbons: And he was coming because the social worker was gonna give him a cap.
• 12:49
  Jenny Gibbons: And what he did is, and you can see the equipment over there, is he built a cap on the ground, which was really creative.
• 12:54
  Jenny Gibbons: It was really cool, like$90 cap or whatever.
• 12:57
  Jenny Gibbons: That's what he was coming for.
• 12:59
  Jenny Gibbons: And Tom.
• 13:02
  Jenny Gibbons: He's standing right in the middle of the picture, kept going into the cap that he'd built and getting the things and throwing them all over the place.
• 13:09
  Jenny Gibbons: And what was happening was at the place, the institute where he lived is the kids would j him and they would just poke him in, you know, emotionally and whatever they were doing to him, and then he would just explode.
• 13:20
  Jenny Gibbons: Yeah.
• 13:21
  Jenny Gibbons: So that's a lot of the stuff that was going on is that.
• 13:23
  Jenny Gibbons: Ha he was 15 at the time.
• 13:25
  Jenny Gibbons: Like he really didn't belong.
• 13:26
  Jenny Gibbons: You talk about, um, you know, constellation work and belonging.
• 13:29
  Jenny Gibbons: He didn't belong anywhere.
• 13:30
  Jenny Gibbons: And then in the second session we took him down 'cause I wanted him to feel that like he could be part of this, of what we do.
• 13:37
  Jenny Gibbons: And in the second session, um, so this guy over here, Cruz was a fo, he's only a baby, and mystique is his mom was over there and she's a really good mom.
• 13:48
  Jenny Gibbons: And at that point we'd only had.
• 13:50
  Jenny Gibbons: Probably myself, Abby, and the vet and the paddock with those two, because it's a mummy, you know, it's like a nursery so you don't take everybody in.
• 13:58
  Jenny Gibbons: And I wanted to take this young person in just to have a look, just to see what we do.
• 14:02
  Jenny Gibbons: And mystique just came straight up to us, to him.
• 14:06
  Jenny Gibbons: 'cause he'd stood off by himself a little bit.
• 14:09
  Jenny Gibbons: She came straight up and she just hugged him.
• 14:11
  Jenny Gibbons: Just wrapped yourself around him.
• 14:13
  Jenny Gibbons: So that's the mother horse?
• 14:14
  Jenny Gibbons: That's the mother horse, yeah.
• 14:16
  Jenny Gibbons: And then Cruz just came up to the other side.
• 14:19
  Jenny Gibbons: So she put him between her and her fo.
• 14:22
  Jenny Gibbons: This is someone who's meant to be really angry and really explosive.
• 14:25
  Jenny Gibbons: Right?
• 14:26
  Jenny Gibbons: Yeah.
• 14:26
  Jenny Gibbons: And then the light bulbs went off for me that like he wasn't dangerous because she would've never have done that.
• 14:31
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 14:32
  Jenny Gibbons: And then he, we drove down, they were in a bottom pad.
• 14:34
  Jenny Gibbons: And then when I got up at the top and I said to him, thank you for letting me experience that.
• 14:40
  Jenny Gibbons: That was a beautiful moment.
• 14:41
  Jenny Gibbons: And honestly, it's like a light bulb went off on him inside of him.
• 14:46
  Jenny Gibbons: You know, someone saw him.
• 14:47
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 14:48
  Tracy Cartwright: One of the biggest things, isn't it for, um, and particularly when you're young to, to be seen.
• 14:53
  Jenny Gibbons: Yeah.
• 14:54
  Jenny Gibbons: And that's what that, you know, with all of us is that we wanna be seen and we wanna be, um, witnessed.
• 14:58
  Jenny Gibbons: You know, one of the other youth that I went into and I saw him at, um, a pony youth center.
• 15:03
  Jenny Gibbons: Um, he came out and the thing that was really special to him was the photographs of his life and that he actually had them in a secured place because in that place, if he had your photographs out, someone would probably turn around and rip them up just to hurt you.
• 15:15
  Jenny Gibbons: So he went and got his secure possessions, which was his photographs, and showed me all the photos of his family.
• 15:21
  Tracy Cartwright: This is that same young boy.
• 15:23
  Jenny Gibbons: Different one?
• 15:23
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 15:24
  Jenny Gibbons: Oh, okay.
• 15:25
  Jenny Gibbons: Yeah.
• 15:25
  Jenny Gibbons: Yeah.
• 15:25
  Jenny Gibbons: That one.
• 15:25
  Jenny Gibbons: He came in in the first session, that particular one, and they said that he didn't like talking to people.
• 15:31
  Jenny Gibbons: And as soon as he saw me, because I just wear my boots and tights and a vest, they start talking.
• 15:35
  Jenny Gibbons: And then his first session, um, mystique was in the middle, so connection was in the connection area.
• 15:41
  Jenny Gibbons: So they were all saying that he didn't want to be there, but I could tell from the horses that he did,
• 15:46
  Tracy Cartwright: yeah.
• 15:47
  Jenny Gibbons: Then Frank at that point, um, which is the other horse that you worked up, almost picked up the Holter and gave it to him.
• 15:53
  Jenny Gibbons: Frank was really trying to help connect him, and then what really connected him in that first session was that, um, we clipped the horses.
• 16:00
  Jenny Gibbons: So he liked art and we do like circular movements with it.
• 16:04
  Jenny Gibbons: And he went up and actually touched the horses on how, and then we started talking about that.
• 16:09
  Jenny Gibbons: So the horses are, are the ones that are doing the work and making the connections.
• 16:12
  Jenny Gibbons: That particular young man, he, um, he did I think maybe 10 sessions before he had to move away, and, and the end session we do a review of like what the session was about and what he learned from it and da da da.
• 16:22
  Jenny Gibbons: And, um, so he, like, they're saying that he didn't like it and, you know, all the stuff that they thought were projecting onto him.
• 16:28
  Jenny Gibbons: And every session he remembered what he'd done and what he'd learn.
• 16:31
  Jenny Gibbons: Wow.
• 16:32
  Jenny Gibbons: And then I said, what about the first session?
• 16:34
  Jenny Gibbons: And he sort of did a blank and I went, nothing.
• 16:36
  Jenny Gibbons: Right?
• 16:36
  Jenny Gibbons: And he goes, and then we both laughed 'cause we both remembered what had happened, you know?
• 16:40
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 16:41
  Jenny Gibbons: Yeah.
• 16:42
  Jenny Gibbons: And when he left, we made up a, um, he gave us permission to take photos'cause he wanted photos as well.
• 16:46
  Jenny Gibbons: And then we made up a photo book of all the different sessions and all the different things that he'd learned.
• 16:49
  Jenny Gibbons: So I could take that with him.
• 16:50
  Tracy Cartwright: That's beautiful.
• 16:51
  Tracy Cartwright: And, and a reminder for us too, you know, the things that, like photographs and how special they are and how much they can impact someone.
• 16:58
  Tracy Cartwright: A lot of people don't have that.
• 16:59
  Tracy Cartwright: Uh, the memories.
• 17:01
  Tracy Cartwright: So having the photographs can bring back the memories of the good times as well.
• 17:05
  Jenny Gibbons: Yeah.
• 17:05
  Jenny Gibbons: So
• 17:06
  Tracy Cartwright: what's happening in the background there, Jenny?
• 17:07
  Jenny Gibbons: So we are looking at connection and she's moved up.
• 17:11
  Jenny Gibbons: Ideally, she would move up to where Tomahawk is going because then there'd be connection and unique self in the place.
• 17:17
  Jenny Gibbons: That's the second place of new beginnings over there.
• 17:20
  Jenny Gibbons: Then self-acceptance and truth.
• 17:22
  Jenny Gibbons: It's almost like they're forming a circle around the connection area, but it's still the external part of the connection area.
• 17:28
  Tracy Cartwright: Tomma Hawke looks like, um, a statue isn't moved.
• 17:31
  Tracy Cartwright: So, jumping back into my questions.
• 17:34
  Tracy Cartwright: Can you tell, um, the listeners how you came about to learn constellations?
• 17:39
  Tracy Cartwright: How were you introduced to it?
• 17:40
  Jenny Gibbons: Um, we were at Ma and Mark Johnson was there from America and.
• 17:47
  Jenny Gibbons: Mark was a quite a unique looking person.
• 17:49
  Jenny Gibbons: He was almost albino, had really white, pale skin and blue eyes.
• 17:54
  Jenny Gibbons: And I hadn't met him at that point, but he came rushing up to me, like really rushing up to me and said to me, um, you must come to my workshop.
• 18:04
  Jenny Gibbons: It'll change your life.
• 18:06
  Jenny Gibbons: And I said, oh, whatever.
• 18:07
  Tracy Cartwright: Who's this
• 18:10
  Jenny Gibbons: telling me what to do?
• 18:12
  Jenny Gibbons: And then I went to the workshop and.
• 18:16
  Jenny Gibbons: What happened in the workshop is I was just observing like, you know, the constellation process and Mark was really good.
• 18:22
  Jenny Gibbons: Howie did it.
• 18:22
  Jenny Gibbons: He was really professional putting it together.
• 18:24
  Jenny Gibbons: This young, well, not young sort of teenage young adult came in and she was late and then her nana sort of like hustled her in.
• 18:34
  Jenny Gibbons: You know, her nanas do like just come sit down and so yeah.
• 18:38
  Jenny Gibbons: That's nice.
• 18:41
  Jenny Gibbons: So then I did the cons.
• 18:42
  Jenny Gibbons: I did, I watched, observed the process, and I thought that was interesting.
• 18:46
  Jenny Gibbons: Mm-hmm.
• 18:46
  Jenny Gibbons: Then at the end of the Hui, as we were saying goodbye to everybody, the nana was there again and I got up to the nana and just burst into tears and I just was stopped crying because on that somatic level, I had really missed my nana because I was,
• 19:03
  Tracy Cartwright: yeah.
• 19:03
  Jenny Gibbons: Yeah.
• 19:04
  Jenny Gibbons: And so seeing that happen was like a real, it was something deep inside of me that was missing.
• 19:10
  Jenny Gibbons: And then Petra was behind me and she's a doctor of psychology and she, um, was like, oh my goodness, what's happened to Jenny?
• 19:16
  Jenny Gibbons: And then Nana just like, you know, as Nana's due, waved her on, don't worry about, I've got this, you know, then I stopped crying and then I was fine.
• 19:22
  Jenny Gibbons: But that was the power of the work.
• 19:24
  Jenny Gibbons: Yeah.
• 19:24
  Jenny Gibbons: You know, I didn't do a constellation.
• 19:26
  Jenny Gibbons: I didn't even know that was sitting there for me.
• 19:29
  Tracy Cartwright: Beautiful.
• 19:29
  Tracy Cartwright: Beautiful.
• 19:29
  Tracy Cartwright: And for those who don't know, um, when Jenny mentioned is an in family adoption.
• 19:34
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 19:35
  Jenny Gibbons: And yeah.
• 19:37
  Jenny Gibbons: So then Mark would come over, I think once a year he was doing a dissertation in indigenous wisdom.
• 19:42
  Tracy Cartwright: Mm-hmm.
• 19:42
  Jenny Gibbons: Yeah.
• 19:43
  Jenny Gibbons: So every year he would come over and then I'd train with him, and then obviously we'd do an online meetings.
• 19:47
  Jenny Gibbons: And then I went to American, did some work with him.
• 19:49
  Jenny Gibbons: And yeah, so that was the beginning.
• 19:52
  Tracy Cartwright: And that's how I met you.
• 19:53
  Tracy Cartwright: I met you through that same, through the same.
• 19:56
  Tracy Cartwright: And also Mark was my introduction to Family Constellations as well.
• 19:59
  Tracy Cartwright: So, but you know, listeners have heard that story before.
• 20:02
  Tracy Cartwright: So yeah, it's a great connection.
• 20:03
  Tracy Cartwright: And we are, we are, um, we're heading back there in a couple of weeks time, aren't we, to do some deeper level of work with the advanced facilitators, which is gonna be amazing.
• 20:11
  Jenny Gibbons: Yeah.
• 20:12
  Jenny Gibbons: And just, um, trace watching Marguerite, was it last night we had the meeting?
• 20:16
  Jenny Gibbons: The
• 20:16
  Tracy Cartwright: night before.
• 20:17
  Jenny Gibbons: The night before is like, she really, um, if you haven't met her, she really sits in a heart space.
• 20:23
  Tracy Cartwright: Mm-hmm.
• 20:23
  Jenny Gibbons: And that changes the frequency of everything.
• 20:26
  Jenny Gibbons: Mm. You know, throughout that meeting that she had, she just kept going deeper and deeper, and I've never seen it with a human being before like that.
• 20:33
  Tracy Cartwright: Mm. Yeah.
• 20:33
  Tracy Cartwright: Be beautiful too.
• 20:34
  Tracy Cartwright: Um, to see her have that connection or that experience with the horses because of their ability to hold that space in the heart too.
• 20:41
  Tracy Cartwright: Hey.
• 20:41
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 20:42
  Jenny Gibbons: Yeah.
• 20:43
  Jenny Gibbons: And also remember Midge was the one that started that Hui, and the name of it was Hoai ua, which to me represented to give is to receive.
• 20:52
  Jenny Gibbons: Right?
• 20:52
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 20:53
  Tracy Cartwright: And
• 20:54
  Jenny Gibbons: that, um, theme and what's happened from that, um, Hui, well, we used to go annually, is it just kept happening, like I would say to different people.
• 21:03
  Jenny Gibbons: I had, did you hear about us?
• 21:04
  Jenny Gibbons: And they said, I'll throw it wrong.
• 21:05
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah, yeah.
• 21:06
  Jenny Gibbons: And I just, you know, sorry, you go.
• 21:09
  Tracy Cartwright: I was gonna say, so how many.
• 21:10
  Tracy Cartwright: I'm jumping all over here with my questions 'cause there's just so many things popping up.
• 21:14
  Tracy Cartwright: But how many clients would you see in a week or in a day roughly?
• 21:18
  Tracy Cartwright: It
• 21:19
  Jenny Gibbons: depends.
• 21:20
  Jenny Gibbons: They show up to,
• 21:21
  Tracy Cartwright: yeah.
• 21:21
  Tracy Cartwright: Okay.
• 21:22
  Jenny Gibbons: Sometimes, um, we've got provision for probably three or four, depending on what time we're starting.
• 21:28
  Jenny Gibbons: And then we have our group sessions as well.
• 21:31
  Jenny Gibbons: So at the moment we can fit 15 people in our room, but we are getting a bigger room.
• 21:35
  Jenny Gibbons: Yeah,
• 21:35
  Tracy Cartwright: because
• 21:36
  Jenny Gibbons: we're gonna do bigger workshops.
• 21:37
  Tracy Cartwright: And can you explain a little bit about that?
• 21:39
  Tracy Cartwright: 'cause that's using the horses, but also using humans.
• 21:42
  Jenny Gibbons: Yeah.
• 21:43
  Jenny Gibbons: So then it's the traditional constellation work with people.
• 21:47
  Tracy Cartwright: Mm-hmm.
• 21:48
  Jenny Gibbons: Can you see what he's doing?
• 21:49
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 21:49
  Tracy Cartwright: Just to interrupt the conversation there.
• 21:51
  Tracy Cartwright: The horse is now rolling.
• 21:53
  Tracy Cartwright: Rolling.
• 21:54
  Tracy Cartwright: On the grass, rubbing his, his or her back?
• 21:57
  Tracy Cartwright: His his back.
• 21:58
  Tracy Cartwright: Having a great old time.
• 22:00
  Tracy Cartwright: Which one's that?
• 22:00
  Tracy Cartwright: That's truth.
• 22:02
  Tracy Cartwright: Truth.
• 22:02
  Tracy Cartwright: There you go.
• 22:03
  Tracy Cartwright: Truth was letting it all hang out.
• 22:05
  Jenny Gibbons: Yeah.
• 22:06
  Jenny Gibbons: But what you just said, trace, letting it all hang out if a client has had sexual abuse.
• 22:11
  Jenny Gibbons: Yep.
• 22:11
  Jenny Gibbons: And will walk up to Ollie, who's the big guy, the one that you worked with initially?
• 22:15
  Jenny Gibbons: Yep.
• 22:16
  Jenny Gibbons: He'll hang his penis out.
• 22:18
  Jenny Gibbons: And it happened with us with a young client who just started recently, and she said to me, said, oh, why is he hanging his penis out?
• 22:26
  Jenny Gibbons: And I said, oh, do you want me to tell you the truth?
• 22:28
  Jenny Gibbons: And she said, yes.
• 22:29
  Jenny Gibbons: And I said, well, it normally means that someone's had sexual abuse and it hasn't been resolved.
• 22:32
  Jenny Gibbons: And she told me that, um, she'd been raped when she was 11.
• 22:36
  Jenny Gibbons: So that was in the first 15 meeting minutes of meeting a new client.
• 22:40
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 22:40
  Tracy Cartwright: You can't hide anything from the horses.
• 22:42
  Jenny Gibbons: No.
• 22:43
  Tracy Cartwright: Beautiful.
• 22:44
  Tracy Cartwright: Let's come back to that conversation we were having first started rolling around, but thank you truthful for doing that, li it'll all hang out.
• 22:51
  Tracy Cartwright: The conversation was around having humans and using the horses at the same time where you do traditional constellations, but you also use horses at the same time.
• 23:00
  Jenny Gibbons: Yeah.
• 23:01
  Jenny Gibbons: So with that.
• 23:03
  Jenny Gibbons: 'cause the horses can't speak and some people really wanna know what's happening within the family system.
• 23:10
  Jenny Gibbons: So that's why we use the people.
• 23:12
  Jenny Gibbons: 'cause the people can talk about what's happening.
• 23:14
  Jenny Gibbons: And so the horses are doing what they do in the paddock and we are doing either in the room or a bit sunny, we're outside and we are doing a traditional constellation piece.
• 23:25
  Tracy Cartwright: And that's not every time is it?
• 23:26
  Tracy Cartwright: Because often it's just you are working with a one-on-one client and horses
• 23:30
  Jenny Gibbons: Yeah.
• 23:31
  Jenny Gibbons: So three weeks we do one-on-ones, and then, um, on a Wednesday, the last Wednesday of the month.
• 23:37
  Jenny Gibbons: Normally we do the group work, but sometimes I have other groups in as well at other times.
• 23:42
  Tracy Cartwright: Okay.
• 23:42
  Tracy Cartwright: And you've got one coming up shortly?
• 23:44
  Jenny Gibbons: Oh yeah.
• 23:44
  Jenny Gibbons: We're doing work with the, um, a CC sensitive claims, and that means if you're registered with a sensitive claim, you can come to this group work.
• 23:51
  Tracy Cartwright: Okay.
• 23:52
  Tracy Cartwright: And it's
• 23:52
  Jenny Gibbons: over.
• 23:52
  Jenny Gibbons: I think we're doing a December.
• 23:54
  Jenny Gibbons: It's one in December, one in January, and then one in February.
• 23:57
  Tracy Cartwright: And is that, if someone was to come along to that, are they guaranteed a piece of work?
• 24:01
  Tracy Cartwright: Or, or they may like as in, in often in a constellation workshop, you're not guaranteed a piece of work, but witnessing can be healing anyway.
• 24:08
  Jenny Gibbons: It's not guaranteed because in a day, I mean, we could probably get through maybe five, you know, pieces of work.
• 24:14
  Jenny Gibbons: But what we're also doing is, because we always have a team, there'll be somebody like Elena who can go and do an individual piece of work with the horses.
• 24:22
  Jenny Gibbons: Like she'll just go and be with the horses.
• 24:24
  Jenny Gibbons: Like we have horses up there and even just, you know, someone might have done a piece of work and then they go away and sit with the horses, and then a whole lot of other stuff will come up as well.
• 24:33
  Jenny Gibbons: So it won't be guaranteed.
• 24:34
  Jenny Gibbons: But over the three.
• 24:36
  Jenny Gibbons: Sessions, you know, the three different days.
• 24:38
  Jenny Gibbons: I think we should be able to get through everybody
• 24:40
  Tracy Cartwright: magical.
• 24:41
  Tracy Cartwright: So if someone signs up, do they come to all three days?
• 24:43
  Tracy Cartwright: Or they can come to just one?
• 24:44
  Tracy Cartwright: I
• 24:44
  Jenny Gibbons: think we discussed it with Larry.
• 24:46
  Jenny Gibbons: They can come to just one, but ideally they come to all three.
• 24:48
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 24:49
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 24:49
  Tracy Cartwright: What a wonderful process.
• 24:51
  Jenny Gibbons: And the other thing that I think is really important with trauma traits is doing the somatic work as well.
• 24:56
  Jenny Gibbons: Like we do mi. You know, because the trauma stays in the body, and if you're not getting it out of the body and you just, you might have resolved it in your brain and how you're thinking about it, but it's really like it stays in your body, you know?
• 25:07
  Tracy Cartwright: Yes.
• 25:08
  Tracy Cartwright: It's very important to have that body work.
• 25:10
  Jenny Gibbons: Yeah.
• 25:11
  Tracy Cartwright: Otherwise, the bodies get painful.
• 25:12
  Jenny Gibbons: Now it's like they're in four, four different places in new beginnings.
• 25:16
  Tracy Cartwright: And so you mentioned earlier that you use the wheel medicine wheel.
• 25:20
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 25:20
  Tracy Cartwright: So where they are placed now, does that have a. Significance.
• 25:24
  Jenny Gibbons: Well, we said that truth is in the place of the, so human connection and Tomahawk's been in their other first beginnings over there like a statue from he, he, so as a statue
• 25:34
  Tracy Cartwright: he's doing
• 25:35
  Jenny Gibbons: a great job.
• 25:35
  Jenny Gibbons: And then mystique, which is connection is in the heart area.
• 25:38
  Jenny Gibbons: Mm-hmm.
• 25:38
  Jenny Gibbons: And then indie self-acceptance when they come to the west, which is nearly as at, that's when the circle is complete.
• 25:45
  Tracy Cartwright: Right.
• 25:46
  Tracy Cartwright: Okay.
• 25:46
  Tracy Cartwright: It's fascinating to watch.
• 25:48
  Tracy Cartwright: So, um, and, and particularly when you are guiding it in talking about what you can see and feel and the resonance of the field.
• 25:56
  Tracy Cartwright: And I'm also really interested in the clouds, how the clouds have been changing behind.
• 25:59
  Tracy Cartwright: 'cause at one point, yeah, uh, it looked like a face in the clouds.
• 26:01
  Tracy Cartwright: There was like two really definite eyes overlooking the whole thing at the beginning.
• 26:06
  Jenny Gibbons: Yeah.
• 26:06
  Tracy Cartwright: And
• 26:07
  Jenny Gibbons: now people talk about, sorry, trace, I interrupted you.
• 26:09
  Jenny Gibbons: What else did you say?
• 26:10
  Jenny Gibbons: I was gonna say, now it looks like an
• 26:11
  Tracy Cartwright: elephant.
• 26:12
  Tracy Cartwright: I can see an elephant's trunk and you know.
• 26:15
  Tracy Cartwright: I love
• 26:15
  Jenny Gibbons: elephants.
• 26:15
  Jenny Gibbons: Yeah, I love elephants though.
• 26:17
  Jenny Gibbons: There's a difference in being here, you know?
• 26:20
  Jenny Gibbons: And if people wanna take their shoes off and put their feet on the ground, or you know, sometimes they might just wanna sit and journal or whatever it's that they wanna do.
• 26:27
  Jenny Gibbons: It's not like sitting in an office and somebody telling you what they think is best for you.
• 26:32
  Jenny Gibbons: Mm-hmm.
• 26:32
  Jenny Gibbons: Because for me, we all come from like this universal place, wherever you wanna think that it is.
• 26:39
  Jenny Gibbons: And we all have.
• 26:40
  Jenny Gibbons: What we need to get us to the next place where we wanna be.
• 26:45
  Jenny Gibbons: And I don't like the word healer or therapist or whatever because I'm a conduit and I provide a space.
• 26:52
  Jenny Gibbons: But you are the only person that can heal yourself.
• 26:54
  Tracy Cartwright: So are there any other people that you know of that are doing anything similar to what you doing, aunt?
• 26:59
  Jenny Gibbons: Not that I've seen, not the way that we are doing it.
• 27:02
  Jenny Gibbons: People doing equine therapy, but I haven't seen people doing equine therapy and constellation work.
• 27:07
  Jenny Gibbons: And we also specialize in working from a al Maori perspective.
• 27:11
  Jenny Gibbons: And I think that makes a huge difference as well.
• 27:13
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah,
• 27:14
  Jenny Gibbons: because for me, we are all connected.
• 27:16
  Jenny Gibbons: You know, when we talk about belonging, I belong to two different family systems, but my real belonging like this is for Elena and I, this is work, but this is where we also come, the mistakes now laying down in the heart space.
• 27:28
  Tracy Cartwright: In the heart space.
• 27:28
  Tracy Cartwright: This is,
• 27:29
  Jenny Gibbons: yeah, where we come like for me.
• 27:31
  Jenny Gibbons: You are working with people, but it's just such a beautiful way of working and at the end of the day, like I feel really soul ated, like it's my soul gets satisfaction.
• 27:40
  Jenny Gibbons: It's not like going to work, you know?
• 27:42
  Tracy Cartwright: That's right.
• 27:43
  Tracy Cartwright: They say love your job and you've got the perfect job for yourself there.
• 27:47
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah, you create, you've created this amazing in place for people to come to connect, to find their way towards healing and coming back to themselves.
• 27:56
  Jenny Gibbons: Yeah.
• 27:57
  Jenny Gibbons: And that's really what it's all about, is coming back to yourself and also you being your unique best because there's only one of you.
• 28:04
  Jenny Gibbons: That's right.
• 28:05
  Jenny Gibbons: Um, the world that we live in now, there's all this externalization of you must buy this or you must do this.
• 28:11
  Jenny Gibbons: The real happiness is within yourself.
• 28:13
  Tracy Cartwright: It was so interesting that you say that we've just come back from, um, Mexico and you see that the influence of other cultures coming into these places and then the people are trying to fit in or wanting to be like that, and.
• 28:28
  Tracy Cartwright: And there seems to me sometimes there seems to be a loss of their own identity.
• 28:32
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 28:32
  Tracy Cartwright: Because it's trying so hard to be of, of, uh, to fit into a different box.
• 28:36
  Jenny Gibbons: Yeah.
• 28:37
  Jenny Gibbons: But that's where, you know, with people that come here, I really encourage them to know who they are and where they're from, because part of that belonging is for a lot of us.
• 28:45
  Jenny Gibbons: We've come from other countries, you know, we might be Pacifica or Maori or whatever, but, you know, I'm also French, German, English, Irish, and Scottish.
• 28:54
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 28:54
  Tracy Cartwright: And, you know, that's a really foreign concept, uh, for people too sometimes.
• 28:57
  Jenny Gibbons: Yeah.
• 28:58
  Tracy Cartwright: That whole idea of who am I
• 29:00
  Jenny Gibbons: now?
• 29:01
  Jenny Gibbons: Self-acceptance is rolling in the place at the beginning.
• 29:04
  Tracy Cartwright: It's not the same horse as before.
• 29:05
  Tracy Cartwright: It was truth before, wasn't
• 29:06
  Jenny Gibbons: it?
• 29:06
  Jenny Gibbons: No, that is truth.
• 29:07
  Jenny Gibbons: We call him Fat Boy as in PHAT, but he also is quite chunky.
• 29:11
  Jenny Gibbons: But we love him in a chunky way.
• 29:13
  Jenny Gibbons: This is Indy.
• 29:15
  Jenny Gibbons: She's our lead.
• 29:16
  Jenny Gibbons: Me.
• 29:16
  Jenny Gibbons: She's the boss horse
• 29:18
  Tracy Cartwright: and she's self-acceptance.
• 29:21
  Jenny Gibbons: And they've all got their names, usually through clients.
• 29:23
  Jenny Gibbons: A lot of the time.
• 29:24
  Jenny Gibbons: Like this lady was doing, this is early on, she was doing a consolation with the horses and also with the equipment and all the rest of it.
• 29:30
  Jenny Gibbons: And, um, you know, her story was horrendous.
• 29:33
  Jenny Gibbons: It was really bad, everything that was going on.
• 29:35
  Jenny Gibbons: And we were listening to it thinking, wow, that's a lot.
• 29:38
  Jenny Gibbons: And then she sat down in the middle of it and then Indie came up.
• 29:42
  Jenny Gibbons: And indie doesn't come up to everyone all the time.
• 29:44
  Jenny Gibbons: She's not like Bruce Indie came up and just sniffed her and just stood with her.
• 29:50
  Jenny Gibbons: She said, if this horse can accept me, I can accept myself.
• 29:54
  Tracy Cartwright: Oh, that's beautiful.
• 29:54
  Tracy Cartwright: So where do you see this going, Jenny?
• 29:56
  Tracy Cartwright: What do you see going forward?
• 29:59
  Jenny Gibbons: Well, as part of Anki, I would really love to see this work throughout our country.
• 30:04
  Jenny Gibbons: You know?
• 30:05
  Jenny Gibbons: The court systems just 'cause when we started doing the horse work, if I said I was doing EQU therapy, whatever people would think it was RDA.
• 30:12
  Tracy Cartwright: Back up your horse.
• 30:13
  Tracy Cartwright: What is RDA?
• 30:14
  Jenny Gibbons: Riding for the disabled
• 30:15
  Tracy Cartwright: Riding hose.
• 30:16
  Tracy Cartwright: Okay.
• 30:16
  Tracy Cartwright: Carry on.
• 30:17
  Jenny Gibbons: So that's a different modality.
• 30:18
  Jenny Gibbons: That's where people usually, they have either physical or emotional.
• 30:22
  Jenny Gibbons: You'd say disabilities, but then you could say abilities, you know, challenges.
• 30:25
  Jenny Gibbons: Challenges, yeah.
• 30:26
  Jenny Gibbons: Is that they have them on really quiet ponies and.
• 30:30
  Jenny Gibbons: They might even not be able to walk, but they can have them on the horse.
• 30:33
  Jenny Gibbons: And the movement of the horse is the movement of walking.
• 30:37
  Jenny Gibbons: So it helps 'em physically.
• 30:38
  Jenny Gibbons: So that's what people would think initially when we started doing this work.
• 30:42
  Jenny Gibbons: And then so now if I was at a shop or something, I said, blah, people know what I'm doing.
• 30:46
  Jenny Gibbons: So, do you know what I mean?
• 30:47
  Jenny Gibbons: It's shifted and it's changed.
• 30:48
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 30:50
  Jenny Gibbons: So that's what I would like to see, not only with the horse work, but also with the Constellation work.
• 30:55
  Jenny Gibbons: But I'm also very, um, in this country, I just feel that we really need to look at doing it from a t old Maori perspective.
• 31:02
  Jenny Gibbons: We are, we are in connection with everything, you know, that for me, underpins, underlines as a foundation of my work.
• 31:08
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah, that's true.
• 31:09
  Tracy Cartwright: ' Jenny Gibbons: cause people talk, you people will say they're, but when you know the awa and you know, the minor and you know, do you know what I mean?
• 31:17
  Tracy Cartwright: You know, the feeling, it's a different feeling.
• 31:19
  Tracy Cartwright: And in that feeling, I mean, we've gotta look after this planet, first and foremost as well as ourselves.
• 31:24
  Tracy Cartwright: And I think that using or working with the horses, because of my experience of trauma with the, you know, with the layers has been, um, for myself.
• 31:34
  Tracy Cartwright: That whole complete disconnection to self.
• 31:37
  Tracy Cartwright: So if I was so disconnected to myself, I could be a little bit hyper-focused on something or I could be completely disconnected to everything around me.
• 31:44
  Tracy Cartwright: And it would shift and change at the time.
• 31:46
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 31:46
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 31:46
  Tracy Cartwright: Um, so even the concept of being connected to everything was just like at times really foreign.
• 31:52
  Tracy Cartwright: And at other times it was, it was incredibly known in me.
• 31:55
  Tracy Cartwright: I could feel it, but it was also really overwhelming.
• 31:59
  Jenny Gibbons: Yeah.
• 32:00
  Jenny Gibbons: But do you remember when you could be in your body?
• 32:03
  Jenny Gibbons: Connection.
• 32:04
  Tracy Cartwright: Mm. As I started to call the parts of myself back.
• 32:07
  Jenny Gibbons: Yeah.
• 32:08
  Tracy Cartwright: And yeah, being in nature helps that and, um, being present in my awareness of, of self.
• 32:14
  Jenny Gibbons: And that's again, like, it's really simple things to do, like to look after ourselves.
• 32:19
  Jenny Gibbons: You know, sometimes if it's been a big day here, um, I might just go and walk down the beach, walk barefoot down the beach and go and have a swim.
• 32:26
  Jenny Gibbons: That's my part of my self-care, you know, and I drank good water.
• 32:29
  Jenny Gibbons: We have really good water.
• 32:31
  Jenny Gibbons: Eat healthy food.
• 32:32
  Jenny Gibbons: It's really simple things that you can do to look after yourself.
• 32:34
  Jenny Gibbons: Can you see Mystique?
• 32:35
  Tracy Cartwright: The white one, I
• 32:36
  Jenny Gibbons: think.
• 32:37
  Jenny Gibbons: Yeah.
• 32:37
  Jenny Gibbons: The white one.
• 32:37
  Jenny Gibbons: She's in the heart area.
• 32:38
  Jenny Gibbons: Tr she's just like, when I see that there's some deep work that's going on.
• 32:42
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah, she's rolling around.
• 32:44
  Tracy Cartwright: So that's the third horse.
• 32:45
  Tracy Cartwright: Oh, she stood up.
• 32:46
  Tracy Cartwright: Now she's being watched.
• 32:47
  Tracy Cartwright: Um, that was the third horse to be rolling around.
• 32:50
  Tracy Cartwright: Is that usual in the field of.
• 32:52
  Jenny Gibbons: No, it's unusual.
• 32:53
  Jenny Gibbons: There's a lot of shifting and changing happening.
• 32:55
  Tracy Cartwright: Mm-hmm.
• 32:55
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 32:56
  Tracy Cartwright: And do you find that, like the weather also plays a part in it?
• 32:59
  Tracy Cartwright: So if you've got quite an overcast day or a rainy day, how do the horses respond in that?
• 33:05
  Tracy Cartwright: Do they respond differently in that time or
• 33:07
  Jenny Gibbons: they, they live outside, so they used to being outside in the weather all the time anyway.
• 33:12
  Jenny Gibbons: But um, story with Mark.
• 33:14
  Jenny Gibbons: We, um, we had one of our.
• 33:16
  Jenny Gibbons: In the beginning years ago, an international conference here, just a little one with some aboriginal people.
• 33:21
  Jenny Gibbons: Mm-hmm.
• 33:22
  Jenny Gibbons: And the lady was, um, like a scout.
• 33:24
  Jenny Gibbons: Somebody that worked in nature.
• 33:25
  Jenny Gibbons: Anyway, you know, tracker?
• 33:27
  Jenny Gibbons: Yeah.
• 33:27
  Jenny Gibbons: So when we did the session, I said to her, it's probably gonna rain.
• 33:31
  Jenny Gibbons: Are you okay with being outside?
• 33:32
  Jenny Gibbons: And she goes, yeah, I'll be fine.
• 33:34
  Jenny Gibbons: And this is honest, like you couldn't stage it right.
• 33:37
  Jenny Gibbons: Is that 'cause their stories can be really horrendous, like so bad, you know?
• 33:43
  Jenny Gibbons: They get, um, taken off the street raped and um, then they have to marry their rapist, you know, lots of stuff anyway.
• 33:50
  Jenny Gibbons: And just the weather, like this big storm came in like huge, huge storm.
• 33:55
  Jenny Gibbons: And I thought, well, she said she's right and I'm fine to sat out in the storm.
• 33:57
  Jenny Gibbons: We always have our big jackets and stuff, you know, and the horses were fine, but the horses were sort of hunkering in around us and she was telling me the story, but I couldn't actually hear it because the wind and the rain and everything was so bad.
• 34:07
  Jenny Gibbons: And then she finished the story.
• 34:09
  Jenny Gibbons: And this is no baloney, but then the clouds parted and the sun shone down on us.
• 34:14
  Tracy Cartwright: Wow.
• 34:15
  Tracy Cartwright: Beautiful.
• 34:16
  Tracy Cartwright: So she was able to be, the field, was able to hear her.
• 34:19
  Jenny Gibbons: Yeah.
• 34:20
  Jenny Gibbons: And I think just that she could be heard and she could tell her story, you know?
• 34:23
  Jenny Gibbons: And I didn't have to know every detail because this is why we'd been working with her doing constellations before, and then she did some horse work, you know?
• 34:29
  Jenny Gibbons: So I did have an idea of what was going on.
• 34:31
  Jenny Gibbons: Yeah.
• 34:31
  Jenny Gibbons: But it's just been witnessed, you know, like we talked about before.
• 34:34
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 34:34
  Tracy Cartwright: So Tomma Hawke's holding a really good position.
• 34:36
  Tracy Cartwright: They're still standing like a statue.
• 34:38
  Jenny Gibbons: Yeah.
• 34:39
  Jenny Gibbons: And connection's gone to him.
• 34:40
  Jenny Gibbons: So unique self and connection are in the place of new beginnings.
• 34:43
  Jenny Gibbons: And can you do that one?
• 34:44
  Jenny Gibbons: And in truth and self-acceptance have lined up over here as well.
• 34:48
  Jenny Gibbons: But Trace, it was also funny when we started because we were trying to keep everything set up.
• 34:52
  Jenny Gibbons: 'cause they'd gone into the generational area and then, I don't know if they heard your voice or what happened, but they all couldn't get into this area.
• 34:59
  Tracy Cartwright: I saw that.
• 34:59
  Jenny Gibbons: Oh, we need it.
• 35:00
  Jenny Gibbons: Right.
• 35:01
  Tracy Cartwright: Here we go.
• 35:02
  Tracy Cartwright: The filming has started.
• 35:03
  Tracy Cartwright: Let's join them.
• 35:04
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah, let's join them.
• 35:06
  Tracy Cartwright: That's beautiful.
• 35:06
  Tracy Cartwright: If you were to meet someone at.
• 35:08
  Tracy Cartwright: A barbecue.
• 35:09
  Tracy Cartwright: And you talked about constellations in your own lingo.
• 35:13
  Tracy Cartwright: How do you describe it?
• 35:14
  Jenny Gibbons: With the horse constellations?
• 35:16
  Jenny Gibbons: The horse has shown me externally what the person is feeling internally.
• 35:19
  Tracy Cartwright: That was nice and brief.
• 35:20
  Jenny Gibbons: Apparently, if you're really good, I've been to more than one conference.
• 35:23
  Jenny Gibbons: If you're really good at what you can do, you can describe it on a postage stand,
• 35:26
  Tracy Cartwright: right?
• 35:27
  Tracy Cartwright: This shit works.
• 35:28
  Jenny Gibbons: So trace, how would you describe, describe traditional constellation work then?
• 35:32
  Tracy Cartwright: How would I describe traditional constellation work?
• 35:34
  Jenny Gibbons: Yeah,
• 35:35
  Tracy Cartwright: it is, uh, helping to discover what is hidden.
• 35:38
  Tracy Cartwright: That may or may not belong have begun with you.
• 35:42
  Tracy Cartwright: That's how I describe it.
• 35:42
  Tracy Cartwright: I mean,
• 35:42
  Jenny Gibbons: if we were at a barbecue and I would had the issue, then I would ask if I'm in a relationship and it's not working, is that considered the issue?
• 35:50
  Tracy Cartwright: Well, I guess it's up to the individual, what they consider to be their issue.
• 35:54
  Tracy Cartwright: So, you know, if it's been relationship after a relationship or they've tried everything they possibly could, you know, looked at different angles and nothing seems to be working.
• 36:02
  Tracy Cartwright: Recommend Constellation,
• 36:04
  Jenny Gibbons: but why would you recommend it from other things?
• 36:07
  Tracy Cartwright: To see what's hidden?
• 36:08
  Tracy Cartwright: What's hidden within your own system.
• 36:09
  Tracy Cartwright: We call it our blind spot.
• 36:11
  Tracy Cartwright: Find your blind spot.
• 36:12
  Tracy Cartwright: And I guess the horses do that in, in their Aussie way without it having to be spoken.
• 36:17
  Jenny Gibbons: Yeah.
• 36:18
  Jenny Gibbons: Because for me, everything is energy, you know?
• 36:20
  Jenny Gibbons: And that's what I love about this work.
• 36:22
  Jenny Gibbons: 'cause with the horses, it's just the purity of the energy.
• 36:24
  Tracy Cartwright: Do you have any.
• 36:26
  Tracy Cartwright: Personal favorite teachers that you've worked with or people that you have, uh, followed or, or trained with or read about or anything like that, that, that maybe you do a bit of their work or you just like what they do?
• 36:38
  Jenny Gibbons: When I, um, started, I tr was with a gala, which I said at the beginning, and my mentor for that work for the advanced work was Dr.
• 36:46
  Jenny Gibbons: Joe Lancia, who was a psychiatrist in the states.
• 36:51
  Jenny Gibbons: And as like Joe, um, had a private practice in New York.
• 36:55
  Jenny Gibbons: He taught at Stanford like he was up there in terms of, he was always traveling around the world and doing conferences and stuff like that.
• 37:01
  Jenny Gibbons: And that's who I learned from.
• 37:02
  Jenny Gibbons: But as much as Joe was scientific, he was also really spiritual as well.
• 37:07
  Jenny Gibbons: So he was my mentor and he since passed.
• 37:09
  Jenny Gibbons: But, um, you know, I always give think of him and we in his property, um, in the States, he'd have a rainbow over it in his picture on his website.
• 37:18
  Jenny Gibbons: And whenever I see rainbows, you know, when we're up at Ro.
• 37:20
  Jenny Gibbons: It was that big rainbow and that to me was Joe.
• 37:23
  Tracy Cartwright: Fantastic.
• 37:24
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 37:25
  Jenny Gibbons: Mm. So he was one.
• 37:26
  Jenny Gibbons: Um, I've been doing some work with Emily, um, and Dan when we went to South Africa this year.
• 37:31
  Jenny Gibbons: And I really enjoy the way that they work.
• 37:33
  Jenny Gibbons: And I was thinking, you know, with Emily as well, she's one of those people that's really nurturing, caring, but she's also a psychologist.
• 37:39
  Jenny Gibbons: And with Dan it's really, you know, you can have lots of really good conversations with Dan about anything and everything, you know, and I really enjoy that.
• 37:47
  Jenny Gibbons: I enjoyed sitting at the breakfast table watching, um, giraffes in the morning, having good conversations in South Africa.
• 37:53
  Tracy Cartwright: That's right.
• 37:53
  Tracy Cartwright: You went there and you were doing constellations in South Africa?
• 37:56
  Jenny Gibbons: Yeah, we did them morning, noon, and night.
• 37:57
  Jenny Gibbons: We did them on a plane.
• 37:58
  Jenny Gibbons: We did them on a train.
• 38:00
  Jenny Gibbons: We did them everywhere.
• 38:02
  Jenny Gibbons: Yeah.
• 38:02
  Tracy Cartwright: And did you use other animals in those constellations or was it just humans?
• 38:07
  Jenny Gibbons: No, I would've loved to have gone out and done it with other animals, but, um, we weren't allowed out of the vehicle.
• 38:12
  Tracy Cartwright: Now, Mr.
• 38:12
  Tracy Cartwright: Lion, would you just, uh, come into this area of the field?
• 38:15
  Jenny Gibbons: Well, that was one of the things.
• 38:16
  Jenny Gibbons: Um, I don't think Emily would mind me talking about it, but, um.
• 38:19
  Jenny Gibbons: She was worried that something would happen, you know, when we're in South Africa.
• 38:22
  Jenny Gibbons: 'cause we were on a safari and all the rest of it.
• 38:24
  Jenny Gibbons: And at one point this lioness like you're in a vehicle and then this lioness just like walked straight past us.
• 38:30
  Jenny Gibbons: So like you could have reached out.
• 38:32
  Tracy Cartwright: Wow.
• 38:33
  Jenny Gibbons: But nobody died.
• 38:34
  Jenny Gibbons: That was a bonus.
• 38:35
  Tracy Cartwright: That's a big bonus.
• 38:36
  Jenny Gibbons: Yeah.
• 38:37
  Tracy Cartwright: And what's happening in the field now?
• 38:38
  Tracy Cartwright: I see one horse is going up to higher ground.
• 38:40
  Tracy Cartwright: Hart has moved.
• 38:42
  Tracy Cartwright: No connection has moved.
• 38:43
  Tracy Cartwright: I'm getting there.
• 38:43
  Tracy Cartwright: Tomahawks even moved.
• 38:46
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah, actually they've all moved.
• 38:47
  Tracy Cartwright: Changed position.
• 38:47
  Jenny Gibbons: Yeah.
• 38:48
  Jenny Gibbons: Then again, Tracy, if you look, it's almost like a diamond shake.
• 38:51
  Jenny Gibbons: Now Tom's gonna shift that, but Tom's also been really, um, quite quiet during the session.
• 38:57
  Jenny Gibbons: Tomahawk sometimes if someone's got any type of anxiety, he's the one that plays it out and he'll start galloping around the place.
• 39:02
  Tracy Cartwright: I was gonna say, I have seen him running around the field, running around, letting it all out.
• 39:07
  Jenny Gibbons: Yeah,
• 39:08
  Tracy Cartwright: it's fascinating.
• 39:09
  Tracy Cartwright: Fascinating to watch.
• 39:10
  Tracy Cartwright: And
• 39:10
  Jenny Gibbons: now Indy's gonna go up and get some water, so that's usually replenishment.
• 39:14
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 39:15
  Tracy Cartwright: And what's happening in this corner over here with.
• 39:18
  Jenny Gibbons: Connection or what?
• 39:19
  Tracy Cartwright: No, this one at this side
• 39:20
  Jenny Gibbons: cruise.
• 39:21
  Jenny Gibbons: Yeah.
• 39:21
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah, yeah.
• 39:22
  Jenny Gibbons: So this is where we are almost ending.
• 39:24
  Jenny Gibbons: I don't check the time as, um, when we get to the West, that's when the session's finished.
• 39:29
  Tracy Cartwright: And from where I'm now they're all in line except for, um, connection is, is in a different space.
• 39:34
  Tracy Cartwright: But it's like the other three horses are all standing in line.
• 39:38
  Jenny Gibbons: I mean, if this was a real client, I'd be quite happy to finish the session because we've got, for me it's a pattern between, uh, unique self connection.
• 39:46
  Jenny Gibbons: Truth and self-acceptance has gone to the higher self, which it almost looked like she's heading towards, towards the generational area.
• 39:53
  Jenny Gibbons: And then if, oh, coming up now
• 39:56
  Tracy Cartwright: saying not quite finished yet.
• 39:57
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 39:58
  Jenny Gibbons: What do you wanna tell us?
• 39:59
  Jenny Gibbons: And if it was a session truth, I'd be looking at three particular elements that happened within the session, but then I'm asking the person what they're seeing as well.
• 40:07
  Jenny Gibbons: Because what I see will be different to what they see.
• 40:10
  Jenny Gibbons: But then I need to know what they're seeing.
• 40:12
  Jenny Gibbons: It's not my interpretation.
• 40:13
  Jenny Gibbons: My interpretation is one thing.
• 40:14
  Jenny Gibbons: I need to know what they're seeing and what they're feeling.
• 40:17
  Tracy Cartwright: So what are the three elements that you would be looking for?
• 40:19
  Jenny Gibbons: I think this one is that Tomahawk was really still, that's unusual.
• 40:23
  Jenny Gibbons: There was a lot of movement, there was a lot of rolling round and stuff like that.
• 40:26
  Jenny Gibbons: A lot of shifting.
• 40:27
  Jenny Gibbons: And then the thing that stood out to me was mystique lying down in the heart area.
• 40:31
  Jenny Gibbons: And um, that usually means something significant has shifted in that heart area for somebody, whether it was me, you, Elena, or whoever's watching, I dunno.
• 40:40
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 40:40
  Tracy Cartwright: That's true, isn't it?
• 40:41
  Tracy Cartwright: Because people can be watching this and having their own constellation from witnessing it.
• 40:45
  Tracy Cartwright: And for me right now in the sky, I can see like a horse's head.
• 40:48
  Tracy Cartwright: It's almost like a Pegasus actually.
• 40:50
  Tracy Cartwright: That's what it appears to me to be.
• 40:51
  Tracy Cartwright: You can see wings coming out the back and it's like it's galloping through the sky above Tom Hawke quite a bit above him, or could be.
• 40:58
  Tracy Cartwright: Well see.
• 40:58
  Jenny Gibbons: You could be here and you could just, yeah.
• 41:01
  Jenny Gibbons: And the clouds could be telling you stuff, you know, because that's the other thing is that we look at, um, all the, that come, but sometimes.
• 41:07
  Jenny Gibbons: Fantas, like we'll just get a whole lot of little Fantas.
• 41:09
  Jenny Gibbons: And then other times there's like dragonflies, like there's whole lot of dragonflies will turn up and there's all these sort of different things where you'll get a hawk that flies over constantly.
• 41:17
  Jenny Gibbons: There might be some NPIs that come in and land on the field.
• 41:20
  Jenny Gibbons: And yeah, it's all sorts of different things.
• 41:22
  Tracy Cartwright: Beautiful.
• 41:23
  Tracy Cartwright: And I see that the three horses have come to a little party in the middle there on the edge.
• 41:27
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 41:27
  Jenny Gibbons: Self-acceptance is up there.
• 41:29
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 41:30
  Tracy Cartwright: So how many people do you have working for you?
• 41:34
  Jenny Gibbons: Marcus for free.
• 41:35
  Jenny Gibbons: We just get other people that come in.
• 41:36
  Jenny Gibbons: Like we have our crew as well.
• 41:38
  Jenny Gibbons: Yeah.
• 41:38
  Jenny Gibbons: Um, yeah, so I have, um, Simon will come in, like, especially if I want a male perspective, you know, he's really good.
• 41:45
  Jenny Gibbons: Auntie Tangi comes, there's lots of different, um, you know, I've got friends coming over from overseas.
• 41:50
  Jenny Gibbons: I'll get them to come in and.
• 41:53
  Jenny Gibbons: Pretty sort of fluid.
• 41:54
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 41:54
  Tracy Cartwright: What, showing up, who's showing up at the time?
• 41:56
  Jenny Gibbons: Yeah.
• 41:57
  Jenny Gibbons: But we had a family that, um, had survived human trafficking and their first language was Spanish.
• 42:04
  Jenny Gibbons: And, um, they'd been in this country for five years and the mother had never been able to talk to anybody in her first language about what had happened.
• 42:13
  Jenny Gibbons: And what had happened was just, you know, horrendous.
• 42:16
  Jenny Gibbons: Then at the time, so I knew that they were coming 'cause there was a lot of planning involved in getting them there and all the rest of it.
• 42:22
  Jenny Gibbons: And then who should turn up, but a psychologist who wanted to learn equine therapy,
• 42:27
  Tracy Cartwright: who spoke Spanish.
• 42:28
  Tracy Cartwright: How fantastic.
• 42:30
  Jenny Gibbons: So the mother could actually unpack everything that happened one-on-one with her and the horses.
• 42:34
  Jenny Gibbons: Yeah.
• 42:34
  Tracy Cartwright: Amazing.
• 42:35
  Tracy Cartwright: It's interesting to me that all of the horses are facing in the same direction, roughly.
• 42:39
  Tracy Cartwright: I can't see the ones back over the far back.
• 42:41
  Tracy Cartwright: So they're going, is it south?
• 42:43
  Jenny Gibbons: It's West.
• 42:44
  Tracy Cartwright: West.
• 42:44
  Jenny Gibbons: Self-acceptance is on the higher plane also.
• 42:47
  Jenny Gibbons: It's cruise.
• 42:48
  Jenny Gibbons: True.
• 42:49
  Jenny Gibbons: Okay.
• 42:49
  Jenny Gibbons: Like me telling his story.
• 42:50
  Jenny Gibbons: So Indy would like his story to be told about, um, when we worked with a veteran once.
• 42:54
  Tracy Cartwright: Mm-hmm.
• 42:56
  Jenny Gibbons: And he'd been working with a really good psychologist for two years and there were three things that he couldn't get over as a Vietnam vet and one was killing people because.
• 43:07
  Jenny Gibbons: He came back and he had become a policeman and he, you know, was a really good citizen.
• 43:12
  Jenny Gibbons: So there was killing people that he didn't understand how he could have done that at the time.
• 43:15
  Jenny Gibbons: And then the other thing was all the people that he had killed, that was the second one.
• 43:21
  Jenny Gibbons: And because when they killed them, they would just kill them and leave their bodies there.
• 43:25
  Jenny Gibbons: And all they had to do was bring the jackets back.
• 43:28
  Jenny Gibbons: Yeah.
• 43:28
  Jenny Gibbons: To say like they killed them.
• 43:30
  Jenny Gibbons: And then the third one was.
• 43:32
  Jenny Gibbons: The men from other countries had had relationships with the ladies there, and then they'd had children that were born.
• 43:39
  Jenny Gibbons: So nobody wanted those children.
• 43:40
  Jenny Gibbons: And the children were in orphanages and the soldiers used to go and play with the kids.
• 43:45
  Jenny Gibbons: It was like being normal, you know, playing with the kids, playing soccer and stuff like that.
• 43:48
  Jenny Gibbons: And, um, their orphanage got bombed and it was actually bombed by one of the American planes.
• 43:55
  Jenny Gibbons: Wow.
• 43:55
  Jenny Gibbons: And he felt like so responsible for it.
• 43:58
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 43:58
  Tracy Cartwright: And that
• 43:59
  Jenny Gibbons: he could've moved beyond that.
• 44:01
  Jenny Gibbons: Why he was triggered was because, I can't remember how many years ago, but um, they suddenly, when all those Vietnam vets came, it was like they didn't do anything and it was like a real dishonor to be there, you know?
• 44:12
  Jenny Gibbons: So it was like they just came home and just got into their jobs and stuff.
• 44:15
  Jenny Gibbons: And then, um, 10, 15 years ago, whenever it was, they suddenly decided to honor them and he would end up, if a car backfired, he would end up in a fetal position on the pavement crime.
• 44:27
  Jenny Gibbons: Um, he was hitting his wife.
• 44:29
  Jenny Gibbons: And there's dreams at night, like having such a lot, you know, the stuff was coming back up and he was just kept hitting her and then he couldn't, he was so depressed he couldn't go to his job or do anything, you know, so it was really affecting him.
• 44:39
  Jenny Gibbons: And they came up to the horses early.
• 44:42
  Jenny Gibbons: Him and his wife Andy was in the yard.
• 44:44
  Jenny Gibbons: And um, he had a mustache.
• 44:46
  Jenny Gibbons: And horses don't have hands, so they explore with their mouth.
• 44:49
  Jenny Gibbons: And he went out to the yard to see her and she just went up to him and she was exploring with her mouth as mustache.
• 44:54
  Jenny Gibbons: It was really funny and he really liked it.
• 44:56
  Jenny Gibbons: And then when he went into the paddock and we'd set up this whole acceptance alley, we talked about it a lot and what we were doing and how we were gonna do it.
• 45:04
  Jenny Gibbons: And the acceptance alley, there's, there's the pod where the situation was, and then you move on through that to the acceptance of it.
• 45:11
  Jenny Gibbons: And it might take an hour or two hours, however long it takes, you know?
• 45:14
  Jenny Gibbons: And so we had three different pods set up.
• 45:16
  Jenny Gibbons: First of all, he wanted to with Indie, and he wanted to work with her because she was the one that had connected with him in initially.
• 45:23
  Jenny Gibbons: But one indie is self-acceptance.
• 45:25
  Jenny Gibbons: So she only comes in when she wants to come in.
• 45:27
  Jenny Gibbons: You know, we can't make them.
• 45:28
  Jenny Gibbons: We could put Holters on them and make them do stuff, but I don't wanna do that.
• 45:31
  Jenny Gibbons: And the other thing with her is she's on like the Jenny Craig program, so we always have them in a starvation paddock and such with no grass.
• 45:38
  Jenny Gibbons: And then when they come into the therapy pad, there's lots of grass.
• 45:40
  Jenny Gibbons: So they wanna eat grass and do what they do, you know?
• 45:42
  Jenny Gibbons: And he wanted to pick her and I thought.
• 45:45
  Jenny Gibbons: Oh, I just hope she wants to come, you know, like she is a lead me and she does what she wants to do and I didn't wanna force her and he didn't wanna force her in any way.
• 45:52
  Jenny Gibbons: And, you know, I'm like, you know, trust in the process and I hope it works, but please horse come.
• 45:56
  Jenny Gibbons: You know, please, please, please.
• 45:57
  Jenny Gibbons: And, um, she did thankfully, and we didn't use any coercion.
• 46:00
  Jenny Gibbons: She just joined up with us.
• 46:01
  Jenny Gibbons: And so we went into the first pod and we'd made these sacks and they had like stab wounds in them.
• 46:06
  Jenny Gibbons: And, um, he came to the realization that, um, you know, that's what they do.
• 46:11
  Jenny Gibbons: And war they teach you to kill people.
• 46:13
  Jenny Gibbons: It's a whole mindset part of it.
• 46:15
  Jenny Gibbons: So that one was pretty easy.
• 46:16
  Jenny Gibbons: He moved onto the, um, acceptance part of that.
• 46:18
  Jenny Gibbons: He talked about that.
• 46:19
  Jenny Gibbons: And then we moved on to where the soldiers uniforms.
• 46:22
  Jenny Gibbons: And what I didn't realize is I'd gone to the op shop and just got these uniforms, but it had like, they were proper Vietnam ones and I didn't know that.
• 46:29
  Jenny Gibbons: And then he picked, we'd scattered them and he picked them up and he put them, um, back to folded them all up and just like honored each death.
• 46:38
  Jenny Gibbons: Yeah.
• 46:38
  Jenny Gibbons: It was really beautiful.
• 46:40
  Jenny Gibbons: That
• 46:40
  Tracy Cartwright: makes me feel, I feel that.
• 46:41
  Tracy Cartwright: I really feel that in my throat actually.
• 46:42
  Tracy Cartwright: That, yeah.
• 46:43
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 46:44
  Tracy Cartwright: Emotional connection to that.
• 46:45
  Tracy Cartwright: Beautiful.
• 46:46
  Jenny Gibbons: And what I think I didn't realize at the time, which is something that happens with me, is like these souls see that they're being recognized and then they move through, you know?
• 46:54
  Jenny Gibbons: Yeah, yeah.
• 46:55
  Jenny Gibbons: And this is, it probably took him a good hour.
• 46:57
  Jenny Gibbons: Do you know what I mean?
• 46:58
  Jenny Gibbons: Just sitting there with that and his process and what he was feeling.
• 47:00
  Jenny Gibbons: Yeah.
• 47:01
  Jenny Gibbons: And then the third one was he felt responsible for that orphanage.
• 47:04
  Jenny Gibbons: And like, you know, what do we do?
• 47:06
  Jenny Gibbons: How do we do this?
• 47:07
  Jenny Gibbons: So we just got, you know, the little, you have road cones, but you get these little green ones.
• 47:11
  Jenny Gibbons: So we just put all the little green cones in the last pod.
• 47:14
  Jenny Gibbons: And all the way through this, India just walked with them all the way through self-acceptance, you know, and then they got to the end one and he sat there and she stood there with him and we walked away because it was his process to go through and.
• 47:28
  Jenny Gibbons: I mean, we were there, but he could talk to us if he wanted to.
• 47:30
  Jenny Gibbons: And after about half an hour she walked away and then he got up and he just came over and to us and said there was nothing I could do.
• 47:39
  Jenny Gibbons: There was nothing that I could have done.
• 47:40
  Jenny Gibbons: So it was a beautiful way to work through somebody's extreme trauma.
• 47:45
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 47:45
  Tracy Cartwright: Without all the talk therapy.
• 47:47
  Tracy Cartwright: And it's that full energetic felt supported connection, reconnection.
• 47:53
  Tracy Cartwright: That's fantastic.
• 47:55
  Jenny Gibbons: And I don't, you know, I think talk therapy can work for some people and you know, there's breath therapy, there's lots of different modalities that people do, you know, and I think you find what it is for you.
• 48:04
  Tracy Cartwright: Absolutely.
• 48:05
  Tracy Cartwright: Different layers.
• 48:06
  Tracy Cartwright: Um, I've experienced talk therapy and at the time it was what I needed.
• 48:09
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah, absolutely.
• 48:10
  Tracy Cartwright: And I
• 48:10
  Jenny Gibbons: think that's one of the other things is, um.
• 48:13
  Jenny Gibbons: With the group work that we do, like you do as well, is, um, as women, like we connect, you know, we sit there and we have coffee together and we talk, and I think that's needed as well.
• 48:22
  Jenny Gibbons: You know, somebody said to me once, we are all the aunties, you know, we are the aunties that people can talk to, you know, the older generation.
• 48:28
  Jenny Gibbons: And that's another thing that we do here is we might have young couples coming in who've got all these problems and we are sitting there going, yeah, you'll get through it, you know,
• 48:35
  Tracy Cartwright: uh, it takes a village.
• 48:36
  Tracy Cartwright: Right?
• 48:36
  Tracy Cartwright: And that's where Yeah.
• 48:37
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 48:37
  Tracy Cartwright: Go to the aunties and have the conversation.
• 48:40
  Jenny Gibbons: Who we are as human beings is to be in connection.
• 48:44
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 48:44
  Tracy Cartwright: So what's going on in the background?
• 48:46
  Tracy Cartwright: We're coming to, it's quarter past, so we'll be winding up shortly.
• 48:49
  Jenny Gibbons: Unique self is maybe getting a drink.
• 48:52
  Jenny Gibbons: Yes.
• 48:53
  Jenny Gibbons: But quite often as well, when the session's finished, they'll go and get a drink and then the feed she used to be up there, so then they go and stand by the feed.
• 48:58
  Jenny Gibbons: She
• 48:59
  Tracy Cartwright: gonna say they're gonna go and help themselves.
• 49:01
  Jenny Gibbons: Yeah.
• 49:01
  Jenny Gibbons: They're like, okay.
• 49:02
  Jenny Gibbons: Session over, we're done.
• 49:03
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 49:04
  Tracy Cartwright: It gets a bit like that, doesn't it?
• 49:05
  Tracy Cartwright: After a constellation, everyone suddenly gets really hungry.
• 49:07
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 49:07
  Tracy Cartwright: I'm sure the horses feel that too.
• 49:09
  Jenny Gibbons: Yeah.
• 49:10
  Jenny Gibbons: But also 'cause they get fed after every session,
• 49:12
  Tracy Cartwright: right?
• 49:13
  Jenny Gibbons: Yeah.
• 49:13
  Jenny Gibbons: So they know the routine.
• 49:15
  Tracy Cartwright: Well, is there anything else that you'd like to share before we log off here today?
• 49:18
  Tracy Cartwright: It's fascinates me what you do and, um, that other layer of the field work.
• 49:23
  Tracy Cartwright: Hmm.
• 49:24
  Jenny Gibbons: I think, um, try it if you want to, you know, whether you do it with the horses or family constellations, however you do it, you know, just.
• 49:32
  Jenny Gibbons: Having that connection with self, but also in doing it not just from a cognitive perspective, but really from a sematic experience.
• 49:40
  Jenny Gibbons: 'cause ideally you wanna be connecting the gut, which is our oldest brain, the heart and the head.
• 49:45
  Jenny Gibbons: What should be in alignment?
• 49:46
  Jenny Gibbons: That's what you know, ideally, I think that we're looking for, and the integration of the human body is spiritual.
• 49:52
  Jenny Gibbons: The emotion, emotional body, like all the different layers of bodies of who we are.
• 49:56
  Jenny Gibbons: Yeah, and I think you can achieve that with the Constellation work because you might do one level.
• 50:00
  Jenny Gibbons: There might be, as we said before, a problem or situation in your life that's going on, but there'll be so much more that's happening and you don't understand it because it might be seven generations back or something, and you've got no knowledge of what happened to those people.
• 50:13
  Jenny Gibbons: You know, even something like grief, it might have been, that's when your people left your particular.
• 50:18
  Jenny Gibbons: Area, you know, in Scotland and a lot of what happened to the, not just the Scottish and the Irish, but you know, you've been to Mexico, the colonization around the world is everywhere.
• 50:26
  Jenny Gibbons: It's not just here.
• 50:28
  Tracy Cartwright: Exactly.
• 50:29
  Tracy Cartwright: Yep.
• 50:29
  Tracy Cartwright: And, and we're all wearing that.
• 50:31
  Tracy Cartwright: It's, uh, a lot newer here than it has been in those countries too, which was something I've observed.
• 50:35
  Tracy Cartwright: Um, and yet for many generations that I hear it's, it's as well.
• 50:41
  Jenny Gibbons: Yeah.
• 50:41
  Jenny Gibbons: And clearing, you know, we do have intergenerational trauma here.
• 50:44
  Jenny Gibbons: I get that.
• 50:45
  Jenny Gibbons: I absolutely understand it.
• 50:47
  Jenny Gibbons: But if you do wanna do this work, this is a way of clearing it and a way of clearing it in ways that you won't even know until you actually get into the process.
• 50:55
  Jenny Gibbons: Yeah.
• 50:55
  Jenny Gibbons: And
• 50:55
  Tracy Cartwright: it's
• 50:56
  Jenny Gibbons: healthy, you know, you're held in a really contained space and it's a beautiful way of working.
• 51:02
  Jenny Gibbons: One of the things that I really liked about it when I started was being the seeker, and you can just sit there and watch the process unfold.
• 51:09
  Jenny Gibbons: But when I did my first consolation with Mark, it was really funny because he forgot that I was adopted.
• 51:15
  Jenny Gibbons: So when I put my parents on the field in terms of who I thought they were, it was my mom and dad who I grew up with, right?
• 51:21
  Jenny Gibbons: And then after about half an hour, I said, but is this, it's the biological parents, right?
• 51:29
  Jenny Gibbons: Was really being represented.
• 51:30
  Jenny Gibbons: And because that was one of the questions as well that I had with Dan is, you know, I feel, um, loyalty to both systems, to the system that I grew up with in my biological system.
• 51:40
  Jenny Gibbons: And what he pointed out, and he said, Janet, it's taken me a long, a lot of years to get to this point, was it's a biological system where the DNA is gonna have the problems,
• 51:48
  Tracy Cartwright: the DNA, and we can still have the energetics from the other two though, can't we?
• 51:51
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 51:51
  Tracy Cartwright: Especially if we're very loyal to them.
• 51:53
  Tracy Cartwright: So earlier you said, I have a website, but you didn't share any details.
• 51:57
  Tracy Cartwright: So, uh, can you rattle that one off the top of your head?
• 51:59
  Jenny Gibbons: It's dub HARs org nz.
• 52:02
  Tracy Cartwright: HARs org nz.
• 52:04
  Jenny Gibbons: But if you google Jenny horses, usually you'll find me.
• 52:07
  Jenny Gibbons: I'm usually at the top and I see that in Do Dubai Works, and they're like famous.
• 52:11
  Jenny Gibbons: I'm like, no.
• 52:12
  Jenny Gibbons: It's just a small country.
• 52:13
  Jenny Gibbons: Yeah.
• 52:13
  Jenny Gibbons: Jenny, with the horses in your farming.
• 52:15
  Jenny Gibbons: Someone's got a good job.
• 52:16
  Jenny Gibbons: Technically, my website, who knows?
• 52:19
  Jenny Gibbons: I don't.
• 52:20
  Tracy Cartwright: So if you're listening to this, Google, Jenny with the horses and let us know how you get on.
• 52:23
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah, if that doesn't work, go to dub hearts org.
• 52:28
  Tracy Cartwright: Oh, beautiful.
• 52:29
  Tracy Cartwright: And, and have the horses finished, do you think they've done their dash?
• 52:33
  Jenny Gibbons: Yeah.
• 52:33
  Jenny Gibbons: They're waiting by the feed room.
• 52:34
  Tracy Cartwright: It was, and we're all waiting up there.
• 52:36
  Tracy Cartwright: Oh, thanks.
• 52:37
  Tracy Cartwright: Well, since it's been so interesting to, to witness and to, to be in the field with them all, even though I'm not in the field, but I am.
• 52:44
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah, you are from a distance.
• 52:46
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 52:46
  Tracy Cartwright: Beautiful.
• 52:47
  Tracy Cartwright: Thanks Jenny.
• 52:47
  Tracy Cartwright: Thanks Elena.
• 52:48
  Tracy Cartwright: Elena's there in the background.
• 52:49
  Tracy Cartwright: Um, tech support, nourishing support and uh, a support all departments.
• 52:54
  Tracy Cartwright: She's the head of all departments.
• 52:56
  Tracy Cartwright: Thank you so much.
• 52:57
  Jenny Gibbons: This Thank you.
• 52:59
  Jenny Gibbons: South Africa.
• 53:00
  Jenny Gibbons: You see it?
• 53:02
  Tracy Cartwright: What does it say?
• 53:03
  Tracy Cartwright: Dare to be different.
• 53:04
  Jenny Gibbons: Yeah,
• 53:05
  Tracy Cartwright: absolutely.
• 53:06
  Tracy Cartwright: Thanks, trace.
• 53:06
  Tracy Cartwright: Oh look who's coming for a, um, one last shoot.
• 53:09
  Tracy Cartwright: Who's that unique self acceptance in
• 53:13
  Jenny Gibbons: Yeah.
• 53:13
  Tracy Cartwright: It'll be
• 53:14
  Jenny Gibbons: working us to see why we're still mucking around here.
• 53:16
  Jenny Gibbons: Trace.
• 53:17
  Tracy Cartwright: Yeah.
• 53:17
  Tracy Cartwright: Seriously saying, come on, it's feed time.
• 53:20
  Jenny Gibbons: Yeah.
• 53:20
  Jenny Gibbons: Yeah.
• 53:21
  Tracy Cartwright: Well, thank you ladies.
• 53:21
  Tracy Cartwright: Thanks.
• 53:22
  Tracy Cartwright: Um, yeah, I hope everyone who has been witnessing this as well as listening to this has received some amazing nuggets and insights and really I encourage you, if you're interested in learning more, reach out to Jenny and Elena and, um, yeah.
• 53:37
  Tracy Cartwright: What have you got to lose.
• 53:38
  Tracy Cartwright: Cool.
• 53:38
  Tracy Cartwright: Thanks Joyce.
• 53:39
  Tracy Cartwright: Sweet.
• 53:40
  Tracy Cartwright: Thank you for listening.
• 53:41
  Tracy Cartwright: Head over to Instagram and tell me what's resonated for you.
• 53:44
  Tracy Cartwright: With this episode, you'll find me at Tracy dot Cartwright.
• 53:48
  Tracy Cartwright: That's Tracy with no e dot Cartwright, and or head over to my website, Tracy cartwright.co nz, and receive a free audio with a gift from your ancestors.
• 53:58
  Tracy Cartwright: So until next time, be kind to yourself and have fun doing it.