Latest / Juicy Scoop with Heather McDonald / Dance Moms' Abby Lee Miller Tells All

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Dance Moms' Abby Lee Miller Tells All · Juicy Scoop with Heather McDonald

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: I can't believe it. I can't.
• 0:02
  Speaker 2: Seriously.
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: So, let me get this right, Doc. You're telling me
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• 0:15
  Speaker 4: Grand.
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  Speaker 2: Got private medical insurance?
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  Speaker 1: Call 0818 888 888.
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: Or visit kingsbridgehealth.ie. Kingsbridge. Some things are worth talking about.
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: Heather MacDonald has got the Juicy Scoop. When you're on
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: the road, when you're on the go, Juicy Scoop is
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: the show to know.
• 0:42
  Speaker 3: She talks Hollywood tales for real life, Mr.
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  Speaker 2: Saving Serial Data and Serial Sisters. You'll be addicted and addicted.
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  Speaker 4: Fast to the number one tabloid real life podcast. Listen in,
• 0:54
  Speaker 4: listen up. Woo, woo.
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: Heather MacDonald.
• 0:59
  Speaker 4: Juicy Scoop.
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: Hello and welcome to Juicy Scoop. I am really excited
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: for you guys to hear this interview. This is one
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: you have been asking for, begging for. I sat down
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  Speaker 2: with Abby Lee Miller of Dance Moms. Now, I really
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: have not watched that much of Dance Moms. I've seen
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: the clips. I've seen what was perceived about her. I
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  Speaker 2: followed her case when she went to prison. We met
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: and made this time for her to come on Juicy Scoop.
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  Speaker 2: And it is such an interesting life story. So many
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  Speaker 2: things I didn't know. She's funny, she's juicy, and she's
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  Speaker 2: inspirational and very real. And I think you'll really love
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: this interview. So sit back and relax for Abby Lee Miller.
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: Hello and welcome to Juicy Scoop. I'm very excited because
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: I have a great guest, Abby Lee Miller, the star
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: of Dance Moms, famous on so many levels. Welcome to
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  Speaker 2: your first time at Juicy Scoop.
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  Speaker 4: Thank you. I love being here.
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  Speaker 2: We met at the Us Weekly party.
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  Speaker 1: Yes.
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  Speaker 2: And I was so impressed that you knew who I was.
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  Speaker 4: Well, I've been a fan for years.
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  Speaker 2: So I was like, oh my God, definitely come on.
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  Speaker 2: My niece who's 17 is a new fan of the show.
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  Speaker 1: Oh, new.
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  Speaker 2: And yes, I guess a lot of these shows with
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  Speaker 2: our younger generation that can watch shows, whether it's Friends
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: or Dance Moms or whatever, discovered it and it was
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  Speaker 2: so excited that you were coming. Wow. So she was.
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  Speaker 4: I'll get a t-shirt for it.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.
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  Speaker 4: And send it over to you. I cannot believe you
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  Speaker 4: put me in the same sentence with friends. That's great.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah.
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  Speaker 4: Yes. Oh my God. I just, I can retire right now.
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  Speaker 2: So I want to get a little bit of a
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  Speaker 2: background for the people that aren't that familiar with you
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  Speaker 2: or the show. This is a show that it was
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: on TLC, right? No. Was it on Lifetime?
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  Speaker 4: Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: Okay.
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  Speaker 4: Sorry.
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  Speaker 2: It was on Lifetime for seven.
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  Speaker 4: Or eight seasons? Eight seasons.
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  Speaker 2: Eight seasons.
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  Speaker 4: Double seasons.
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  Speaker 2: And so two seasons a year.
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  Speaker 4: So we shot 13 episodes, three specials, like a clip
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  Speaker 4: show I did and then a reunion and then a
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  Speaker 4: kid's reunion and then another 13 episodes and another three specials.
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  Speaker 4: And then I would leave Pittsburgh and go fly to
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  Speaker 4: LA and do another show, a spinoff, Abby's Ultimate Dance
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  Speaker 4: Competition or Abby's Studio Rescue for another 13 episodes. So
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  Speaker 4: I was on television 45 weeks out of 52 weeks
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  Speaker 4: a year. For years.
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  Speaker 2: Seven or eight years.
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  Speaker 4: Six. Yeah, because the first season was supposed to be
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  Speaker 4: a six-week docu-series that wasn't supposed to destroy my business
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  Speaker 4: or me. And yeah, it turned into a long series.
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean, I think that's, I want to get
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: into all of that. And let's, so let's go back.
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  Speaker 2: And so your mom was a dancer and had a
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  Speaker 2: dance studio. And so that's really where your dancing career began.
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  Speaker 4: Yes. My mom had seven studios in Miami, Florida before
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  Speaker 4: she left to marry my dad and moved to Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania.
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  Speaker 2: When did you realize that you wanted to follow in
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  Speaker 2: your mom's footsteps and teach girls?
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  Speaker 4: I started to go... travel with my mother to the
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  Speaker 4: conventions in the summer. There weren't competitions, but there were,
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  Speaker 4: you know, a lot of continuing education. And my mother
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  Speaker 4: was very big on that. It's, you know, dance is
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  Speaker 4: a constantly evolving art form. You have to stay on
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  Speaker 4: top of your craft, something new all the time for
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  Speaker 4: the kids. So I went with her and I studied
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  Speaker 4: with some of the most influential teachers of our time,
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  Speaker 4: jazz teachers, Frank Hatchett and Luigi and Gus Giordano and
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  Speaker 4: these people. And then when I was 13, we got
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  Speaker 4: a flyer in the mail and it was said, dance competition.
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  Speaker 4: That's the first time you saw those two words together.
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  Speaker 4: And I said, mom, mom, I want to do this.
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  Speaker 4: I want to do this. And she said, she looked
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  Speaker 4: at it and she said, wait, we're going to pay
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  Speaker 4: people money to watch you dance. And then they're going
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  Speaker 4: to judge you. That's absurd. You should get paid to dance.
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  Speaker 4: But she's in Pittsburgh now. Different than Miami. Different culture.
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  Speaker 4: And she said, okay, you want to do a solo
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  Speaker 4: in this? I said, oh, no. I want to teach
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  Speaker 4: my friends a dance, choreograph it, and put them in it.
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  Speaker 4: And I did. I got the costumes. I did the rhinestones.
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  Speaker 4: I cut the music when it was reel-to-reel tape. You
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  Speaker 4: had to slice it with a razor blade and put
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  Speaker 4: it back together. That's how you edited music. Now kids
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  Speaker 4: can do it on their phone. It's bizarre. So I
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  Speaker 4: did it, and I put them in, three girlfriends, they
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  Speaker 4: were my age, and they took dance from my mother,
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  Speaker 4: of course, and they were my friends, and they won.
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  Speaker 4: I had that little 12-inch plastic trophy in my hands,
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  Speaker 4: and I knew what I was put on this earth
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  Speaker 4: to do.
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  Speaker 2: Amazing.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: So then you, so then, okay, so then let's cut to,
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  Speaker 2: so you start.
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  Speaker 4: I'm 14, my birthday's in September, I turn 14, and
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  Speaker 4: I tell my mother I want to have a competition
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  Speaker 4: team your studio. And she said, okay, everybody that tries
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  Speaker 4: out makes it. I'm not going to lose customers over this.
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  Speaker 4: And you're going to teach them for free because you're 14.
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  Speaker 4: You have no credentials. You're not a member of any
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  Speaker 4: organizations or anything, dance teacher organizations. So it's free. And
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  Speaker 4: you'll do it on Saturdays or Sundays after they're, you know,
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  Speaker 4: not during class time. And I did. And that's how
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  Speaker 4: it started. And I had 15 kids, one boy, 14 girls.
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  Speaker 4: And one of those girls ended up being a mom
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  Speaker 4: on the show. Really? Yes.
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  Speaker 2: And did you get along with her? Nope.
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  Speaker 4: She's the one that physically assaulted me.
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  Speaker 2: Who was that?
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  Speaker 4: Her name is Kelly Highland.
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  Speaker 2: Wow.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah. She was my student since she was... three at
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  Speaker 4: my mom's studio. And she was on the competition team
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  Speaker 4: at the Abby Lee Dance Company.
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  Speaker 2: Did you get along back then? I did.
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  Speaker 4: Yes. I loved her. She was gorgeous. Not the sharpest
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  Speaker 4: tool in the shed, but she was a beautiful child. Beautiful.
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  Speaker 4: And nice legs, flexibility. She was more of an acrobat.
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  Speaker 4: And then her mother, who was divorced, her mom and
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  Speaker 4: dad were divorced, lovely people. Her mom had an affair
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  Speaker 4: with somebody else's dad. in the dance studio. And that
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  Speaker 4: child was also on the competition team. So when that
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  Speaker 4: all broke out, we would go to the conventions at
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  Speaker 4: hotels and they were getting a room upstairs.
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  Speaker 2: And when that- And did you know as a kid,
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  Speaker 2: as a teenager? No.
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  Speaker 4: Well, I did when it all blew up and both
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  Speaker 4: kids quit. They were so embarrassed and so mortified. They
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  Speaker 4: were like 14.
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  Speaker 2: And Kelly was one of those.
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  Speaker 4: Yes.
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  Speaker 1: Okay.
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  Speaker 4: But then her dad, who was divorced, her dad always
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  Speaker 4: had a young, gorgeous girlfriend. And they always had kids.
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  Speaker 4: And he brought them back to the dance studio. Every
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  Speaker 4: couple of years, he'd bring in.
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  Speaker 2: These new three-year-olds. So he was good for business.
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  Speaker 4: He was great. Yes, he paid tuition longer than anybody
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  Speaker 4: else in my studio.
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  Speaker 2: So then when do you decide to venture on your
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  Speaker 2: own and have your own studio? I didn't.
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  Speaker 4: I took over my mom's studio.
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  Speaker 2: Oh, okay.
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  Speaker 4: And I borrowed $ 585, 000 when I was 22 years old
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  Speaker 4: at 9.75% interest. And my mom and dad gave me
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  Speaker 4: their life savings, which was, I think, $ 180, 000 to build
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  Speaker 4: my building. And I did.
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  Speaker 2: And is that the same place that then the years
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  Speaker 2: later that the TV cameras came to? Okay. Now, what
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  Speaker 2: was your relationship with reality TV before they came a knocking?
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  Speaker 2: Were you a fan of it? You didn't watch it?
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  Speaker 4: I watched like real world, maybe.
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  Speaker 2: So a little bit. Yeah.
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  Speaker 4: But I was a very... Avid TV watcher, scripted television.
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  Speaker 4: I was an only child. Television was my best friend.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah. So you're doing this thing. How old were you
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  Speaker 2: when they first said, hey, we're... And how did they
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  Speaker 2: discover you? Tell me the whole thing of how it
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  Speaker 2: came about.
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  Speaker 4: I was not discovered. I created the show, but I
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  Speaker 4: don't get a creative credit. Let's just throw that out there.
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  Speaker 2: All right.
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  Speaker 4: All right. So my 15 kids grows to 148 on
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  Speaker 4: my team, 400 in the studio. It's, I'm married to
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  Speaker 4: the studio. I'm married night and day. Because you never
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  Speaker 4: have been married, right?
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  Speaker 2: No.
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  Speaker 4: I did 77 solos myself, choreographed. No guest choreographers, no guests.
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  Speaker 4: I had a great staff of people that I worked with,
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  Speaker 4: mainly ballet teachers that were at the ballet companies in town.
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  Speaker 4: I had a tap teacher that came from West Virginia,
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  Speaker 4: but they were mostly people that my mother had trained, right?
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  Speaker 2: Okay.
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  Speaker 4: Okay. So we're there, we're doing our thing and we
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  Speaker 4: start to win. That was my goal. I want to win.
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  Speaker 4: I want to win. I want a Miss Dance of Pennsylvania.
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  Speaker 4: That was a big deal. And I got one. And okay,
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  Speaker 4: now the next goal, I want a professional working dancer.
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  Speaker 4: I'm going to train a kid that's going to get
• 10:10
  Speaker 4: out of this town and they're going to go and
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  Speaker 4: they're going to be successful. And I did. My first
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  Speaker 4: professional dancer, Lisa Shantz, was one of those very first
• 10:19
  Speaker 4: kids When I was 14 in my team. Oh, wow.
• 10:24
  Speaker 4: Part of my team. And she got Tokyo Disney and
• 10:27
  Speaker 4: she left her crazy family. She had a crazy dance
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  Speaker 4: mom too. Left her, moved to Japan. I flew to
• 10:34
  Speaker 4: Japan to see her. Like I did it. I invested
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  Speaker 4: my life in these kids. They were my life. I
• 10:40
  Speaker 4: love them dearly. Like they were my own kids, you know,
• 10:43
  Speaker 4: either younger sisters.
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  Speaker 2: Because you have never had your own children.
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  Speaker 1: Correct.
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  Speaker 2: Right.
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  Speaker 1: Right.
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  Speaker 4: Okay. But I've, I've been in the wings of the stage.
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  Speaker 3: Right.
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  Speaker 4: And put my hands like this and had a kid
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  Speaker 4: throw up in my hands.
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  Speaker 2: Yes. You've done it all.
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  Speaker 4: I've, I've, I've raised these kids.
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 10:58
  Speaker 4: Okay. All right. So, uh, and then it went on
• 11:02
  Speaker 4: and on and on and then a junior misdance and
• 11:03
  Speaker 4: then a teen misdance and then a misdance of America,
• 11:07
  Speaker 4: of the nation. And these aren't little rinky dink competitions.
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  Speaker 4: This is big time, not for profit, huge events. And
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  Speaker 4: now what's the goal? I want a kid on Broadway.
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  Speaker 4: And I started driving those kids back and forth to
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  Speaker 4: New York City.
• 11:24
  Speaker 3: Me.
• 11:25
  Speaker 4: I paid for the gas, the parking tickets, the speeding tickets,
• 11:29
  Speaker 4: the McDonald's, right? I did it. And I got a
• 11:33
  Speaker 4: student in Footloose. That same young man is now an
• 11:41
  Speaker 4: associate choreographer, a director, a this, a that. He's involved
• 11:47
  Speaker 4: in the new show, Death Becomes Her, that's opening in
• 11:49
  Speaker 4: November on Broadway. Right now, I currently have four kids
• 11:54
  Speaker 4: on Broadway. Now, till this day, it's insane. And I
• 11:58
  Speaker 4: did that. And to see your name in that playbill
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  Speaker 4: meant it was all worth it. All the sacrifices that
• 12:06
  Speaker 4: I made.
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  Speaker 2: Right.
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: Right.
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  Speaker 4: Okay. So... I'm doing that, right? Now things take a turn.
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  Speaker 4: My father passes away. He runs the books. He runs
• 12:16
  Speaker 4: the money. Then my business, 2008 happened.
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: And- The recession.
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  Speaker 4: Kids couldn't go to dancing school. The really advanced kids
• 12:25
  Speaker 4: were still there because they were going to get a
• 12:27
  Speaker 4: life out of this, a college scholarship, their livelihood. They
• 12:30
  Speaker 4: were still there. They didn't all pay, but they were
• 12:33
  Speaker 4: still there. And then I still had babies coming because-
• 12:38
  Speaker 4: We have a great, great preschool program till this day,
• 12:40
  Speaker 4: my mother's curriculum, but they could afford it. It was,
• 12:44
  Speaker 4: I don't know, 30 bucks a month, something cheap. It
• 12:47
  Speaker 4: was those middle of the road kids that came two days,
• 12:50
  Speaker 4: maybe three a week, that it was kind of pricey,
• 12:54
  Speaker 4: but they weren't going to make a living at it.
• 12:56
  Speaker 4: So they cut it out. And then it's just bills
• 13:01
  Speaker 4: caught up, caught up, caught up. I refinanced my building
• 13:04
  Speaker 4: from that nine and three quarter percent interest. refinance the
• 13:07
  Speaker 4: building and they never put the taxes in escrow on
• 13:09
  Speaker 4: the building. And I didn't know that. I never went
• 13:12
  Speaker 4: to a tax office. I never paid a tax bill.
• 13:14
  Speaker 4: It was just in the monthly mortgage payment. So three
• 13:18
  Speaker 4: years later in 2010, they come to me and say,
• 13:24
  Speaker 4: you owe $ 37, 000 on property tax on the building.
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: And you don't have it.
• 13:31
  Speaker 4: I don't have it. I don't have anything. I'm driving
• 13:33
  Speaker 4: a brand new Escalade every two years. I lived a
• 13:37
  Speaker 4: nice life.
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: I still belong to the country club.
• 13:39
  Speaker 4: I still did everything.
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: So then what did you do?
• 13:41
  Speaker 4: So I was so mortified and so embarrassed that I
• 13:46
  Speaker 4: declared bankruptcy. That was on December 10th of 2010. The
• 13:50
  Speaker 4: show started four months later. Four months later.
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: The TV show started. So you should have never declared bankruptcy.
• 14:00
  Speaker 4: Never declared bankruptcy. So you strung them out for four months,
• 14:02
  Speaker 4: went to the tax office, tried to get an attorney.
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: Worked out a payment plan or something.
• 14:07
  Speaker 4: And then, well, I did try to do that first
• 14:09
  Speaker 4: before I declared bankruptcy.
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: I did.
• 14:11
  Speaker 4: But then the show would have rolled in and I
• 14:14
  Speaker 4: would have said, listen, we're going to lose this building.
• 14:16
  Speaker 4: If you want to shoot here, you better figure this out.
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 14:19
  Speaker 4: Okay.
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 14:20
  Speaker 3: Your home changes over time. The kitchen gets louder, the
• 14:23
  Speaker 3: mornings get busier, and suddenly you're wondering, is it time
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  Speaker 1: I'm Darman, and this is What Happens Next. Each week
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: on the show, I sit down with extraordinary people who
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: have faced tremendous setbacks, and yet somehow have found a
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: way to turn them into their greatest strengths.
• 15:00
  Speaker 3: Life is one long lesson of chaos.
• 15:03
  Speaker 4: I'm heading to the Emmys, and I have police complaints
• 15:05
  Speaker 4: filed against me. When your free will was about to
• 15:07
  Speaker 4: be taken from you, what would you do if it
• 15:10
  Speaker 4: was given back?
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: Where did that need come from, where you thought that
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: you had to succeed in order to feel loved?
• 15:16
  Speaker 4: He said, I have a work dad. I need a
• 15:18
  Speaker 4: home dad. What happens next? When I came in, he
• 15:20
  Speaker 4: started crying.
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: Everybody in life encounters hardships. What defines them is not
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: those hard moments that they go through.
• 15:28
  Speaker 4: It's about what happens next.
• 15:29
  Speaker 3: I decided to risk it all.
• 15:31
  Speaker 4: I realized how valuable every day was.
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: You're worth the work.
• 15:34
  Speaker 3: Listen, Dara, I'm not going to pull punches.
• 15:36
  Speaker 4: You can use your voice even if it's shaped.
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: The stories are different, but the impact is the same.
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: Only one question matters. What happens next?
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: So then how did the show come about?
• 15:54
  Speaker 4: So a hot guy, most of my stories start with
• 15:56
  Speaker 4: hot guy. So a young man named John Cruella was
• 16:01
  Speaker 4: a professional dancer from Phoenix, Arizona. I used to see
• 16:06
  Speaker 4: him at competitions. So he would win Teen Mr. Dance
• 16:09
  Speaker 4: of America. The next year he was giving up the
• 16:12
  Speaker 4: title and my student was winning it.
• 16:14
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 16:14
  Speaker 4: So I knew his family. I knew his dance teacher,
• 16:17
  Speaker 4: you know, blah, yada, yada. So now I'm at a
• 16:20
  Speaker 4: convention in Vegas and I'm walking into the ballroom area
• 16:25
  Speaker 4: and this hot guy's walking out and I'm like, check
• 16:27
  Speaker 4: him out. You know, who's that? He's hot. And he
• 16:30
  Speaker 4: looks at me and like checks me out. Like, who's
• 16:32
  Speaker 4: this old fat lady looking at me? And I'm like,
• 16:35
  Speaker 4: John Carolla. And he's like, I really love it. And
• 16:38
  Speaker 4: we hug, we stay up all night talking. And I've
• 16:41
  Speaker 4: known him since he was a kid, right? And he's done,
• 16:45
  Speaker 4: you know, world tours, Janet Jackson, Celine Dion, Paula Abdul.
• 16:50
  Speaker 4: He's done every Oscars, Emmy, Grammy show in the opening number.
• 16:55
  Speaker 4: He's a Latin, muscular, masculine dancer. My mother used to
• 17:03
  Speaker 4: say he looked like Valentino on stage. So- We start talking,
• 17:08
  Speaker 4: what are you doing here? Oh, I'm coaching these three kids.
• 17:10
  Speaker 4: How do you put up with these mothers? I can't
• 17:12
  Speaker 4: take it. Yada, yada, yada. I said, three kids. Try hundreds,
• 17:18
  Speaker 4: you know? And so the next day I'm leaving the hotel.
• 17:22
  Speaker 4: He's coming in and he said, where are you going?
• 17:24
  Speaker 4: And I said, well, I have to go down the
• 17:26
  Speaker 4: street to see my kids compete. He's like, what are
• 17:27
  Speaker 4: you talking about? Your kids are here. They're winning everything.
• 17:30
  Speaker 4: They're amazing, Abby. I said, no, my other kids. are
• 17:36
  Speaker 4: down the street at a Dolly Dinkle rinky-dink event at
• 17:40
  Speaker 4: a really trashy hotel. So we get in the car.
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 17:42
  Speaker 4: We go down to the dinky hotel and we walk
• 17:45
  Speaker 4: in and there's a little girl named Maddie doing her solo. Cute.
• 17:50
  Speaker 4: Next kid does her solo. You don't know her name.
• 17:54
  Speaker 4: The next kid does it. You might know her name.
• 17:56
  Speaker 4: I look over at him and he's like this. I said,
• 18:01
  Speaker 4: what's wrong with you? He said, oh my God, Abby,
• 18:04
  Speaker 4: these kids are adorable. They have to be on TV.
• 18:08
  Speaker 4: These kids should be on television. Well, that's not my world.
• 18:12
  Speaker 4: Broadway is my world.
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 18:14
  Speaker 4: So I said, let me introduce you to their mothers.
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 18:20
  Speaker 4: So I take them outside the ballroom.
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: And you're thinking that's going to turn him off. Oh, yes.
• 18:25
  Speaker 4: He's going to realize that they're not the LA... They're
• 18:29
  Speaker 4: not going to be able to take their kids on
• 18:31
  Speaker 4: a plane to Los Angeles and stay outside while they...
• 18:36
  Speaker 4: work right in a movie or a film or.
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: Whatever because because why because these damn dance moms that
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: you encountered are just a type unlike any other little ones.
• 18:46
  Speaker 4: Moms with the solos that they were doing yeah their
• 18:49
  Speaker 4: kids were like on the verge of being good right
• 18:53
  Speaker 4: yeah so they think they know everything you know your
• 18:56
  Speaker 4: kid wins one thing and suddenly you're an expert uh
• 18:58
  Speaker 4: but i take them outside and they're drunk yeah the
• 19:01
  Speaker 4: mom it's the morning okay they're drunk already they're broke
• 19:04
  Speaker 4: And they're bitching about everything. You know, the competition, it
• 19:08
  Speaker 4: starts too early, it ends too late. The food, the hotel,
• 19:12
  Speaker 4: the ballroom, the bedbugs, everything.
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: Everything.
• 19:15
  Speaker 4: I said, let's go. We're out of here.
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: Come on.
• 19:17
  Speaker 4: And we jump in the car.
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 19:19
  Speaker 4: And he looks at me and says, Abby, I have
• 19:23
  Speaker 4: an idea. And it's going to be really good. And
• 19:28
  Speaker 4: he started working on it. I went back to Pittsburgh.
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: So he started working on the pitch.
• 19:31
  Speaker 4: He went back to L.A., He starts working on a pitch.
• 19:34
  Speaker 4: His best friend is a casting director for a little
• 19:37
  Speaker 4: show you may have heard of, The Bachelor, The Bachelor.
• 19:41
  Speaker 4: And he takes it to her and she said, John,
• 19:44
  Speaker 4: I think you have a good idea here, but I
• 19:45
  Speaker 4: hate kids. This is not for me. I'm going to
• 19:48
  Speaker 4: introduce you to a guy that I know that does
• 19:50
  Speaker 4: these famous birthday parties and stuff.
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 19:53
  Speaker 4: And so John meets Brian Stinson and they both get
• 19:58
  Speaker 4: credit for creating the show.
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 20:02
  Speaker 4: I will refer to him as Satan for the rest
• 20:04
  Speaker 4: of this talk.
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 20:05
  Speaker 4: The second guy.
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: Now, why.
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: Okay. So then they bring it to you and.
• 20:11
  Speaker 4: No, they don't bring it to me. They start calling me.
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 20:13
  Speaker 4: And they need pictures of kids.
• 20:15
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 20:15
  Speaker 4: They need eight by tens. So I email the eight
• 20:19
  Speaker 4: by tens.
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 20:20
  Speaker 4: We need footage. Do you have recital footage of dances,
• 20:23
  Speaker 4: like groups and stuff?
• 20:24
  Speaker 3: Uh-huh.
• 20:24
  Speaker 4: Yeah. Yes, John. I have that.
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: Now, are you getting excited? Are you imagining what it
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: would be like to have.
• 20:29
  Speaker 4: A TV show?
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: No.
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: No.
• 20:31
  Speaker 4: They're a pain in the ass. I'm busy.
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: You're not excited. This is just annoying.
• 20:34
  Speaker 4: So I'm in bankruptcy. It's like going to college. You
• 20:39
  Speaker 4: have to fill out a form every month. It's literally
• 20:42
  Speaker 4: like enrolling in school. If anybody's thinking about doing it,
• 20:45
  Speaker 4: it's enrolling in college for accounting. When you file bankruptcy. Yes. Okay.
• 20:50
  Speaker 4: And through it all.
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 20:52
  Speaker 4: It's a very.
• 20:54
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 20:54
  Speaker 4: Stressful process.
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 20:56
  Speaker 4: Okay. So we have that. I'm running my studio, trying
• 20:59
  Speaker 4: to run it, maybe running it into the ground.
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 21:01
  Speaker 4: I have two retail stores.
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 21:03
  Speaker 4: One at my studio, one where like Carnegie Mellon University,
• 21:07
  Speaker 4: like in the city where they are. Okay. So I
• 21:10
  Speaker 4: have all that, right? My mother is older. She's 82,
• 21:12
  Speaker 4: 83 at the time. My dog is 16 years old.
• 21:15
  Speaker 3: Okay. Okay.
• 21:20
  Speaker 4: I'm in Pittsburgh. I'm trying. And the goal was at 45,
• 21:23
  Speaker 4: I was going to go to Florida and live three weeks,
• 21:27
  Speaker 4: come home, do two weeks at home and go back.
• 21:29
  Speaker 4: And my mother would stay in Florida. We're done with
• 21:32
  Speaker 4: the snow and the shoveling and all that and try
• 21:34
  Speaker 4: to start to sell my business to one of my
• 21:37
  Speaker 4: former students. Okay. So that's the game plan. Next thing
• 21:41
  Speaker 4: I know, I need, we need your program books. I
• 21:45
  Speaker 4: used to do these big, thick, like yearbook almost, beautiful
• 21:48
  Speaker 4: of pictures. Because I can make any kid look amazing
• 21:51
  Speaker 4: in a picture. And this is before Photoshop.
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 21:53
  Speaker 4: This is years before. You know, like pose them and
• 21:55
  Speaker 4: like jump out of the frame and get back in
• 21:57
  Speaker 4: the handstand, in the chin stand, the handstand. Right. Okay.
• 22:00
  Speaker 4: So then, so then we're doing our thing. We're competing still.
• 22:04
  Speaker 4: We're doing it. We're trying to do less because people
• 22:06
  Speaker 4: just don't have the money for all these fees. Okay.
• 22:08
  Speaker 4: So I get the call. We're going to find a cast.
• 22:14
  Speaker 4: So they take it. They start knocking on doors to
• 22:16
  Speaker 4: production companies and they keep getting the door slammed in
• 22:19
  Speaker 4: their face. Then they go to a place called Collins
• 22:22
  Speaker 4: Avenue Entertainment. Jeff Collins gives them $ 3, 000 to shoot a sizzle.
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: Got it.
• 22:27
  Speaker 4: Now I have to provide all the stuff for the sizzle.
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 22:32
  Speaker 4: I'm the one that has the competition stuff and they
• 22:33
  Speaker 4: want the crowns and the banners and all that. Right. Okay.
• 22:37
  Speaker 4: So I don't even have money. They want 12 program
• 22:40
  Speaker 4: books overnighted. to Hollywood. They're this thick. I don't even
• 22:45
  Speaker 4: have the money to ship these, like 180 bucks to
• 22:48
  Speaker 4: ship these to them. I'm like, you got to send
• 22:50
  Speaker 4: me like a sticker or something to put on this
• 22:52
  Speaker 4: so I can send them. All right. So 11 networks
• 22:56
  Speaker 4: were interested. 11.
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: After the reel.
• 22:59
  Speaker 4: That's unheard of. Yeah. They had mothers fighting and kids dancing,
• 23:03
  Speaker 4: mothers drinking.
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: And when you said, okay, hey, Um, how did you
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: explain it to the kids and the moms that these
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: cameras are coming in just for a little sizzle reel?
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: Did they get excited?
• 23:14
  Speaker 4: The sizzle was all made up of footage that I had.
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: Oh, so, so, okay.
• 23:19
  Speaker 4: Moms know nothing about this. Okay.
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: So then the offer comes in and you decide, I mean.
• 23:24
  Speaker 4: There's no offer there. We're coming to Pittsburgh to shoot.
• 23:28
  Speaker 4: So The networks go down and down and down and
• 23:31
  Speaker 4: down and down, right? And it's a bidding war.
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 23:34
  Speaker 4: And it comes down to Lifetime and Bravo.
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: Oh.
• 23:39
  Speaker 4: And Lifetime buys the show. I could be.
• 23:45
  Speaker 4: What's his name?
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: Andy Cohen.
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 23:47
  Speaker 4: I should be Andy Cohen. I should be his cohort.
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: I'm bummed that Bravo didn't get it either because the
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: thing that made me obsessed with Bravo from the very
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: start were.
• 23:59
  Speaker 4: What was it called?
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: Showbiz Moms and Dads.
• 24:03
  Speaker 4: Oh, I don't know that show.
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: Let me tell you people, I get chills thinking how
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: good it was.
• 24:09
  Speaker 4: Was it after Dance Moms or before?
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: It was before. It was like when only Bravo had
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: like two things. No, it was such a small like
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: cable network. They had that show and they had Inside
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: the Actor's Studio.
• 24:22
  Speaker 4: That was literally all they had. But that was a
• 24:25
  Speaker 4: legit serious show.
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: I grew up here in LA.
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: And I had a child's agent, this big woman called
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: Iris Burton. And my two sisters and I, we all,
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: we had the headshots, we went. And my one sister,
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: she made a lot of money in commercials. She's blonde,
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: blue eyed. That's what they wanted. They didn't want the
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: brown hair, brown eyes back then. So anyway, and then
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: my one sister's, her kids started doing it. So we
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: discover this show and it is all about showbiz moms
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: and dads. They'd feature one person who had a pageant kid.
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: And then, but the one that I was most interested
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: in was everyone would come here. They'd stay at the
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: Oakwood apartments in Burbank for pilot season. And we were
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: like obsessed with these kids that were trying to get
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: the pilots and trying to get the acting. And, you know,
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: some were crazy. Some were good and some were like,
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: I can't believe this person thinks their kid is going
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: to make it. There was a lot, the cluelessness and
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: the way it was shot was just brilliant. So brilliant.
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: Like where the people think they're all that and your
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: people at home are like, you're a loser. So anyway,
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: I'm bummed they didn't get it. Okay. So Lifetime gets it.
• 25:38
  Speaker 4: Jump into Lifetime. They didn't get it and Lifetime got it.
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 25:42
  Speaker 4: And it's immediately changes the entire concept of the show
• 25:49
  Speaker 4: because Lifetime wants a housewife show.
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: Oh.
• 25:52
  Speaker 4: So Dancing with the Stars, their numbers are going up
• 25:55
  Speaker 4: and up every week.
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: Uh-huh.
• 25:57
  Speaker 4: So You Think You Can Dance was good at that time.
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 25:59
  Speaker 4: Right? So now they want a housewife show that centers
• 26:04
  Speaker 4: around a dance studio because they're so freaking cheap.
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: They want the moms fighting and the moms having friendships
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: and all that.
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 26:10
  Speaker 4: Yes. It's a housewife show. The dancing is 10%. The
• 26:14
  Speaker 4: kids are 10%. And I'm not on it. I have
• 26:17
  Speaker 4: nothing to do with it. They're using my studio.
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: And are they paying for that?
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: No.
• 26:23
  Speaker 4: Not a dime.
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: So why didn't you say no?
• 26:25
  Speaker 4: I thought... That'd be good advertising. Now I have kids
• 26:29
  Speaker 4: in 20 Broadway shows at the time or 15 Broadway
• 26:32
  Speaker 4: shows at that time. What's my next goal?
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 26:35
  Speaker 4: Maybe this is it. Maybe kids are going to come
• 26:37
  Speaker 4: flocking to my studio because we have a TV show.
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Okay. Got it.
• 26:41
  Speaker 4: I'm down and out. I got to do something.
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: Now.
• 26:45
  Speaker 4: they're going to find a cast. So it's posted on
• 26:48
  Speaker 4: my website. My website. Auditioning, TV show. No, not auditioning, interviewing.
• 26:56
  Speaker 4: That's the key word, Heather, you have to realize.
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 26:59
  Speaker 4: So the kids sat in a chair next to their
• 27:02
  Speaker 4: mothers like this. Nobody danced. No one.
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 27:10
  Speaker 4: Keep that in mind. So 30 families interviewed. 27 were
• 27:17
  Speaker 4: my students from my families, right? From my studio. Two
• 27:21
  Speaker 4: were friends of mine that had little boys that I
• 27:23
  Speaker 4: thought were hilarious that would make great TV. And the
• 27:26
  Speaker 4: mothers were hilarious. I mean, they were from a hick
• 27:28
  Speaker 4: town called Uniontown. And they just, hey, Abby. Hey, Abby.
• 27:32
  Speaker 4: How you doing? Like, they were crazy, right? They were fun.
• 27:36
  Speaker 4: And the 30th one was Kathy, who ends up being
• 27:39
  Speaker 4: my arch nemesis rival later on in the show. Okay.
• 27:43
  Speaker 4: She was the first one. So she calls me, says,
• 27:45
  Speaker 4: are you really doing a TV show at your studio?
• 27:47
  Speaker 4: I said, Kathy, I don't know. They're going to use
• 27:49
  Speaker 4: my studio. Well, they like the upstairs, you know, thing.
• 27:52
  Speaker 4: We'll see. Well, I'm coming down. And I said, oh, well,
• 27:56
  Speaker 4: who are you bringing? Thinking it's a student of hers
• 27:58
  Speaker 4: and their mother, right?
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 28:00
  Speaker 4: What do you mean? Who am I bringing? Vivian. I'm
• 28:02
  Speaker 4: bringing Vivian. Her daughter can't even walk with the same,
• 28:07
  Speaker 4: like opposite arm and opposite foot. She's, I was like, what?
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: What?
• 28:14
  Speaker 4: I'm like, well, this is not the show I'm thinking in,
• 28:16
  Speaker 4: is that?
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 28:18
  Speaker 4: So, so 30 families. Now, if you talk to any
• 28:20
  Speaker 4: other mothers, they're going to make you believe thousands of
• 28:23
  Speaker 4: people interviewed for this show.
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 28:25
  Speaker 4: Bullshit. All right. No, I can't. No, no. Uh-huh. Because
• 28:28
  Speaker 4: no one knew about it. It was only on my
• 28:30
  Speaker 4: website and she knew because she stalks my website.
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 28:33
  Speaker 4: That's it, right?
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 28:34
  Speaker 4: And a couple other local studios were probably upset and
• 28:37
  Speaker 4: stalking my, like, oh my God, she's going to have
• 28:39
  Speaker 4: a TV show. Now she wins everything. Right.
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 28:41
  Speaker 4: So I'm already kind of hated in Pittsburgh because we
• 28:43
  Speaker 4: win everything now. All right. Like everything. Okay. So if
• 28:46
  Speaker 4: you're serious, you come to my studio. If you want
• 28:49
  Speaker 4: Dolly Dinkle, you go somewhere else.
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: All right.
• 28:51
  Speaker 4: So, and also in my studio at this time, not,
• 28:55
  Speaker 4: there's one kid who's actually on Broadway in Hamilton right now.
• 28:58
  Speaker 4: John Michael, give you a shout out. He is from
• 29:00
  Speaker 4: the zip code that my studio is in. Okay. Nobody
• 29:03
  Speaker 4: else is. Everyone is driving in 45 minutes, an hour
• 29:07
  Speaker 4: to train with me.
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 29:09
  Speaker 4: So- They come in, they interview these kids and they
• 29:13
  Speaker 4: have a cast. Okay. Now I'm choreographing for free. So
• 29:18
  Speaker 4: now I'm choreographing, reworking numbers that the kids already know.
• 29:22
  Speaker 4: But there's one kid that's older, the older sister, and
• 29:25
  Speaker 4: there's one little sister that they don't know these numbers,
• 29:28
  Speaker 4: but all the other kids know the numbers. So they
• 29:31
  Speaker 4: picked four kids out of a class, 18 kids in
• 29:35
  Speaker 4: the class, right? Four get on a TV show and
• 29:39
  Speaker 4: 14 quit. So I don't lose the tuition just for
• 29:46
  Speaker 4: the next year. I lose the tuition for the next
• 29:49
  Speaker 4: 10 years, eight years. All the costumes fees, the shoes,
• 29:54
  Speaker 4: the tights they're buying from me.
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: So, okay. So then the show, we're going to have
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: to skip along. So then the show starts airing.
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: Oh.
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: Well, wait.
• 30:02
  Speaker 4: I got one more thing to say.
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Okay.
• 30:04
  Speaker 4: So I'm choreographing for free.
• 30:07
  Speaker 3: Uh-huh.
• 30:09
  Speaker 4: And I think, I can't keep doing this. My other
• 30:11
  Speaker 4: kids are being shoved aside. Neglected, yeah.
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: Neglected.
• 30:14
  Speaker 4: And they're the paying customers.
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 30:16
  Speaker 4: These bozos are the ones that are disrespectful and cause
• 30:19
  Speaker 4: the trouble.
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: Now, are those kids getting paid by lifetime?
• 30:24
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 30:25
  Speaker 4: The mothers were.
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 30:26
  Speaker 4: Not the kids.
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: Uh-huh.
• 30:27
  Speaker 4: The moms. So I said, this is ridiculous.
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: And you're still only getting a location fee?
• 30:34
  Speaker 4: No location fee. Not a dime.
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: Well, now are you getting paid anything at this point? No.
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: The first season you don't get paid.
• 30:41
  Speaker 4: No, the first three episodes is where I am right now.
• 30:44
  Speaker 3: Oh, okay.
• 30:44
  Speaker 4: So I bring in some other kids that aren't on
• 30:48
  Speaker 4: this show. It's supposed to be a six-week docuseries. Remember that.
• 30:52
  Speaker 4: Six weeks. So I'm figuring in six weeks, it's going
• 30:54
  Speaker 4: to be over and people are going to come back.
• 30:56
  Speaker 4: It's going to be fine.
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: I've got it.
• 30:57
  Speaker 4: They're going to realize it was nothing.
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: Got it.
• 30:58
  Speaker 4: That's in my back of my mind. So I put
• 31:01
  Speaker 4: other kids that are the level of these kids.
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: Uh-huh.
• 31:06
  Speaker 4: Some better, way better, in behind the cameras to learn
• 31:10
  Speaker 4: the choreography. So at least I can use it in
• 31:12
  Speaker 4: my recital. That's what I'm thinking, right?
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 31:16
  Speaker 4: So one kid comes in with their hair down and
• 31:18
  Speaker 4: socks on and a big sloppy shirt. I'm like, what
• 31:21
  Speaker 4: are you doing? You look like a ragamuffin. Get out
• 31:23
  Speaker 4: of here and come back when you look like a dancer.
• 31:25
  Speaker 4: Meaning run out, put your hand in a ponytail and
• 31:29
  Speaker 4: get back in here. She never comes back. But 10
• 31:32
  Speaker 4: minutes later, her psycho mother slams the door open and
• 31:37
  Speaker 4: starts screaming at me.
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: Screaming.
• 31:41
  Speaker 4: And the kids are like shaking. And so I leave
• 31:43
  Speaker 4: the room.
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: Saying what? How dare you speak to my daughter like that?
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 31:47
  Speaker 4: Because that's what I told the kid. It's on camera.
• 31:50
  Speaker 4: We know what I told the kid. But the kid
• 31:51
  Speaker 4: texts her mother.
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 31:53
  Speaker 4: Abby said this about me. Abby said that about me.
• 31:55
  Speaker 4: She won't let me in the room. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
• 31:57
  Speaker 4: And stirs the pot with the mother. That's what kids do. Right. Right.
• 32:01
  Speaker 4: That's what your kid does. Yes. So then she comes in.
• 32:04
  Speaker 4: So I go out of the room and she's chasing
• 32:06
  Speaker 4: me around the den where the kids put their clothes
• 32:08
  Speaker 4: and their coats and stuff. Like a lunatic. She's chasing me.
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: And the cameras are catching this.
• 32:13
  Speaker 4: Oh my God. They're on me.
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 32:16
  Speaker 4: So I pick up somebody's cell phone that's laying there.
• 32:19
  Speaker 4: One of the kids. Flip phone. I open it up
• 32:22
  Speaker 4: and I dial 911. Uh-huh. And the dispatcher answers and
• 32:27
  Speaker 4: he says... Officer Broadway, what's your emergency?
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: Officer Broadway.
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 32:37
  Speaker 4: And I look at Satan in the corner and I'm thinking,
• 32:39
  Speaker 4: you intercepted a 911 call. Like, you're not that good.
• 32:43
  Speaker 4: How would they do that?
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, how would they do that?
• 32:45
  Speaker 4: So I said, there's a psycho woman. She's chasing me
• 32:50
  Speaker 4: around the studio. It's my building. It's my property. Come
• 32:52
  Speaker 4: get her. Take her away.
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 32:54
  Speaker 4: And Officer Broadway says, does she have any weapons? And
• 32:59
  Speaker 4: I said, just her mouth. It was like the heavens
• 33:05
  Speaker 4: parted and the angels were singing. And that was my moment.
• 33:09
  Speaker 4: And when that footage got back to lifetime.
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: But it was a real officer though.
• 33:12
  Speaker 4: It was a real officer. And he later brought his
• 33:14
  Speaker 4: daughter to take from my studio.
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: Oh my God.
• 33:17
  Speaker 4: She was too little at the time, but then he
• 33:19
  Speaker 4: brought her years later. And, um, the chief of police's
• 33:23
  Speaker 4: daughter was actually there at the studio too. And they, uh,
• 33:28
  Speaker 4: Got back to Lifetime, the footage. And they said, who
• 33:31
  Speaker 4: is this? Who is this woman? We don't know her.
• 33:35
  Speaker 4: We don't know a picture. And John's like, well, that's
• 33:37
  Speaker 4: the woman's studio you've been using for free.
• 33:41
  Speaker 3: Oh.
• 33:41
  Speaker 4: And my gas bills and my water bills went through
• 33:45
  Speaker 4: the roof. Because they were there from 8 in the morning.
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: So then they are like, we want you on.
• 33:50
  Speaker 4: And then they offer you money. Now you need a contract.
• 33:52
  Speaker 4: And we're going to offer you $ 1, 500 an episode.
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: Oh, God. And I.
• 33:56
  Speaker 4: Said, no, no, no, I don't have an entertainment attorney.
• 33:59
  Speaker 4: I don't even know one of those in Pittsburgh. I bankrupt.
• 34:03
  Speaker 4: I have to check with the bankruptcy court to see
• 34:05
  Speaker 4: if I can do this, if I can get paid.
• 34:08
  Speaker 4: How is this all going to work? Yada, yada, yada, yada.
• 34:11
  Speaker 4: So the next week we're in Arizona to film and
• 34:16
  Speaker 4: we have a different crew because they're not bringing the
• 34:18
  Speaker 4: cheap guys from Pittsburgh. They're hiring other people. So we're
• 34:22
  Speaker 4: filming and I had a new crew. So I have
• 34:25
  Speaker 4: to tell the guys where they enter and where they
• 34:28
  Speaker 4: exit the kids and where they do the dance. Like,
• 34:30
  Speaker 4: you know, because they don't know the dance. The other
• 34:32
  Speaker 4: guys knew the dance. So I'm standing there and my
• 34:36
  Speaker 4: back is to the audience and the stage is here.
• 34:40
  Speaker 4: And Satan comes over and he puts a piece of
• 34:41
  Speaker 4: paper in front of me and a pen in my
• 34:43
  Speaker 4: hand and says, you have to sign this. It's just
• 34:47
  Speaker 4: an appearance release. He said, everybody that walked in this
• 34:50
  Speaker 4: ballroom had to sign it. And I'm just like, no
• 34:53
  Speaker 4: one's even in the ballroom. He's like, what are you doing?
• 34:56
  Speaker 4: I turn around and my ass is to 500 people
• 35:00
  Speaker 4: sitting in seats that came in to watch the competition.
• 35:03
  Speaker 4: But I didn't know that because I'm engrossed in what
• 35:05
  Speaker 4: I'm doing right here. And I grabbed the pen and
• 35:09
  Speaker 4: I signed it. It was an eight-year contract. It was
• 35:12
  Speaker 4: a four-year contract with a four-year option for $ 1, 500.
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: So as the success went on year two and three,
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: you couldn't negotiate anymore?
• 35:22
  Speaker 4: I did. Okay. I did.
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: I did.
• 35:24
  Speaker 4: I did. I hired an entertainment attorney finally. He screwed
• 35:28
  Speaker 4: up and was awful and was just out of law school.
• 35:32
  Speaker 4: Didn't know that. He was suggested by the production company.
• 35:37
  Speaker 2: I had some friends that engaged in a deal with
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: somebody who the person said, here, just use my attorney.
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: My attorney, which I'm like, that's like a realtor that
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: represents both the buyer and the seller. It's It can happen,
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: but it's probably not in anyone's best interest.
• 35:54
  Speaker 4: Correct.
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 35:55
  Speaker 4: And then I paid that attorney in bankruptcy, had to
• 35:59
  Speaker 4: pay him $ 100, 000 to get rid of him to get
• 36:04
  Speaker 4: a real entertainment attorney. That's nuts to me. The mother's
• 36:07
  Speaker 4: had a new attorney every week.
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: Let me get into the show for a while because
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: I have some questions about the show. So we start watching,
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: people start watching the show and we're mesmerized by the
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: incredible dancing, by the jealousy of the mothers for each
• 36:20
  Speaker 2: other and their daughters and all of that. And, but
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: also we get some highlighted moments of where you are
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: frustrated with the girls. And when you see those little
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: snippets or whatever people feel like, is this any kind
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: of you know, cruelty towards kids or whatever. And what
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: was that like to get that feedback when you had
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: this successful business for decades? And now because it's on TV,
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: people are trying to say that you are, you know,
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: verbally abusive towards children.
• 36:51
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, if it was a football coach saying
• 36:53
  Speaker 4: that stuff, it would have been perfectly acceptable, especially in Pittsburgh.
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: You know what, it's just, it's funny that you say
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: that because I literally just was talking about how before
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: doing this interview, I said, you know, there's men all
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: over the world that said, my dad made me hate
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: baseball or whatever, because it was like so stressful, anxiety driven,
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: all that kind of stuff. And it isn't great, but
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: of those people, some are, you know, some are running
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: to their dad and saying, I can't believe I got
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: the grand slam, you know, in the, in the Dodger
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: game and others are it didn't work out for them.
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: So it's a very tough thing to do, but if
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: it is a competition and you know, that's the way
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: you make a star. So I guess- It's not always.
• 37:43
  Speaker 4: The way you make a star. I had students that
• 37:45
  Speaker 4: I still to this day, sweetie, put your leg, you're
• 37:49
  Speaker 4: not wrapping your sur la coup de pied when you
• 37:51
  Speaker 4: come to passe on that devil pay and they go, oh,
• 37:55
  Speaker 4: and they fix it right away. That was not these
• 37:58
  Speaker 4: kids because they picked these kids without seeing them dance.
• 38:03
  Speaker 4: They picked them on their mother's behavior, personality, camera-friendly looks.
• 38:10
  Speaker 4: They didn't pick my best dancers.
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: Now, where did JoJo come into play?
• 38:14
  Speaker 4: Okay. JoJo was on a spinoff show called Abby's Ultimate
• 38:17
  Speaker 4: Dance Competition, which I loved because I just had to
• 38:20
  Speaker 4: show up every once in a while and yell and
• 38:21
  Speaker 4: just sit in a chair with Robin Anton and Richie Jackson,
• 38:25
  Speaker 4: my buddy and judge. And that's where JoJo came from.
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: So she entered that competition.
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 38:31
  Speaker 4: She had submitted stuff for Dance Moms season after season.
• 38:34
  Speaker 4: They sat in Nebraska and watched it. We just talked
• 38:38
  Speaker 4: about this on my podcast that I did with JoJo
• 38:41
  Speaker 4: and said, oh my God, why aren't we on this show?
• 38:43
  Speaker 4: We should be on this show. And so then when
• 38:46
  Speaker 4: Abby's Ultimate was looking for, you know, kids all over
• 38:49
  Speaker 4: the country, they submitted and they got it. And then
• 38:52
  Speaker 4: she came on to Dance Moms. And she's very grateful.
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: Yes, I've seen that. And so what did you think?
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: I mean, when I see those old, I mean, she's
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: beautiful now, but that little face is just the sweetest.
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: With her little face, her eyes would open up wide.
• 39:11
  Speaker 4: She was a beautiful child. Yeah.
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: She's a beautiful girl now, but she was really just
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: like a little doll face.
• 39:16
  Speaker 4: Yes, she was. And she was a star.
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 39:22
  Speaker 4: I knew that. But a star... is different than a
• 39:26
  Speaker 4: team member. I wanted the Rockettes. I wanted everybody at
• 39:30
  Speaker 4: the same height, the same leg, the same side aerial
• 39:34
  Speaker 4: side so that, or both side side aerials, let's throw
• 39:37
  Speaker 4: that out there, so that they could learn a routine
• 39:41
  Speaker 4: in two days. We had Wednesday and Thursday to teach
• 39:44
  Speaker 4: those numbers to those kids. in several hours because of
• 39:48
  Speaker 4: the filming laws in Pennsylvania are very strict. Thank you
• 39:53
  Speaker 4: to that K plus eight chick.
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 39:55
  Speaker 4: Um, so now we're even, you know, under the thumb
• 39:58
  Speaker 4: being watched every minute and having to pull kids off
• 40:01
  Speaker 4: camera and not learn the routines. So, I didn't need
• 40:06
  Speaker 4: JoJo to stand out. I needed her to blend in.
• 40:09
  Speaker 4: And that was my problem with her. And also she
• 40:12
  Speaker 4: was homeschooled since she went to kindergarten. I think she
• 40:14
  Speaker 4: went one semester to kindergarten and never went back. So
• 40:18
  Speaker 4: kids learn. How to stand in line, how to raise
• 40:21
  Speaker 4: their hand and ask a question, how to, you can't
• 40:23
  Speaker 4: just run to the water fountain. You need to ask
• 40:26
  Speaker 4: to leave the class. But she didn't know that.
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: Because she was never in a traditional classroom.
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 40:30
  Speaker 4: So she didn't know any of those social graces or rules.
• 40:33
  Speaker 2: And that's where the line comes from.
• 40:35
  Speaker 4: Jojo, have you learned nothing? Because I have. I told
• 40:39
  Speaker 4: her a million times when two adults are speaking, you say,
• 40:42
  Speaker 4: excuse me.
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 40:43
  Speaker 4: You don't just interrupt and blurt shit out.
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 40:46
  Speaker 4: And she did.
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: So in dealing with all these kids, a couple of questions.
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: You know, were there times when you did feel, you know,
• 40:55
  Speaker 2: that they were in a bad situation with a parent? Like,
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: you know, where you were like, I feel like this
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: could be really detrimental if I don't step in. Whether
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: it was on camera or prior to the show, what
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: was that like?
• 41:10
  Speaker 4: Okay. Prior to the show, I would call Child and
• 41:15
  Speaker 4: Youth Services probably every couple of years.
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: On somebody.
• 41:18
  Speaker 4: On somebody.
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 41:20
  Speaker 4: When you saw it the most was when we were
• 41:22
  Speaker 4: doing the pictures, the photo shoots for these big program
• 41:25
  Speaker 4: books that we would do. And you'd see that woman
• 41:27
  Speaker 4: with the hairbrush. just going in on the kid and hitting,
• 41:31
  Speaker 4: hitting her, hitting them. Yeah. And you're like, this, this
• 41:34
  Speaker 4: is not just today because you can tell the way
• 41:37
  Speaker 4: the kid reacts. If the kid screamed and yelled and
• 41:41
  Speaker 4: ran and said, my mom just hit me with a hair,
• 41:44
  Speaker 4: you know, with her, then it just happened then. But
• 41:47
  Speaker 4: when the kid doesn't react and like sucks it in,
• 41:50
  Speaker 4: you know, that's going on every day. And I would
• 41:52
  Speaker 4: see that.
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: And you would call.
• 41:54
  Speaker 4: Absolutely. Absolutely.
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: Uh, And then would the mother ever retaliate thinking that
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: you were the one that was the whistleblower?
• 42:04
  Speaker 4: I think they quit and were never seen again. A
• 42:09
  Speaker 4: little girl that I still train over Zoom now, when
• 42:12
  Speaker 4: her mother was a child, she took from me and
• 42:14
  Speaker 4: she grew up to be a teenager that kind of
• 42:16
  Speaker 4: got in with the wrong crowd and stuff. And she
• 42:18
  Speaker 4: had a baby and would just leave her at the
• 42:23
  Speaker 4: studio and it would be eight o'clock at night and
• 42:26
  Speaker 4: Nobody ever came to pick the kid up. And somebody
• 42:29
  Speaker 4: else at the studio would take the child home with
• 42:31
  Speaker 4: them and feed them and put them to bed or whatever. Yeah.
• 42:35
  Speaker 4: So we had that too.
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 42:38
  Speaker 4: The Abby Lee Dance Company in Pittsburgh and my mother's
• 42:40
  Speaker 4: studio prior to that, it was a safe place. It
• 42:43
  Speaker 4: was a place where you knew your child was safe
• 42:46
  Speaker 4: and they were doing something artistic and athletic and they
• 42:52
  Speaker 4: weren't in the backseat of a car with a boy. Like,
• 42:55
  Speaker 4: you know what I mean? You knew where your kid
• 42:56
  Speaker 4: was on Wednesday nights at 8.30. You knew that your
• 42:59
  Speaker 4: kid was at the studio.
• 43:00
  Speaker 2: Now, what about, you know, with gymnastics and ice skating
• 43:04
  Speaker 2: and dancing, how did you deal with kids that might
• 43:08
  Speaker 2: be on the verge of an eating disorder or that
• 43:11
  Speaker 2: you feel maybe the parents were, like, that must be
• 43:14
  Speaker 2: a hard thing to make sure.
• 43:15
  Speaker 4: I had one kid. I probably had some teenagers that
• 43:22
  Speaker 4: tried it or whatever. And the parents would come to
• 43:25
  Speaker 4: me and say, we caught them. I'd say, take the
• 43:27
  Speaker 4: bathroom door off the hinges and the bedroom door off
• 43:29
  Speaker 4: the hinges. And that was it. It was one and done.
• 43:35
  Speaker 4: I had one little girl. She's an adult now. She's married.
• 43:39
  Speaker 4: She has two kids. And I still think she's anorexic.
• 43:42
  Speaker 4: I still think it. And we forbid her to dance.
• 43:46
  Speaker 4: She could watch class, but she was not allowed to
• 43:48
  Speaker 4: dance because the gymnastic teacher at the time was a
• 43:52
  Speaker 4: pharmacist by day. And in the medical field, and he
• 43:55
  Speaker 4: came to me and he said, Abby, she's going to
• 43:56
  Speaker 4: get hurt.
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: She was too fragile and thin, so she wasn't eating.
• 44:00
  Speaker 4: Yes. So we forbid her. But it was weird because
• 44:02
  Speaker 4: her dad used to bring her and he used to
• 44:04
  Speaker 4: sit upstairs every single day for hours and watch her
• 44:08
  Speaker 4: in the class. And I'm thinking, and she was young,
• 44:13
  Speaker 4: but she got put in the older kids, teenagers for
• 44:16
  Speaker 4: a These gorgeous girls are doing beat, beat, straddle with
• 44:22
  Speaker 4: their legs. And he's sitting up there. So we had
• 44:25
  Speaker 4: to stop him from going up because it was making
• 44:26
  Speaker 4: them feel uncomfortable. Yeah, creepy. And I thought, how does
• 44:30
  Speaker 4: this guy drive this little, I don't know, maybe she
• 44:34
  Speaker 4: was 12, to the studio and not just keep driving
• 44:37
  Speaker 4: to Children's Hospital?
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 44:40
  Speaker 4: You had the kid in the car, pass the studio,
• 44:43
  Speaker 4: drive to the hospital. I called the pediatrician because I
• 44:46
  Speaker 4: knew who it was. Called the pediatrician. in confidentiality and said,
• 44:53
  Speaker 4: this kid has a problem. I either too much exercising
• 44:58
  Speaker 4: at home, you know, like sweating it off or not
• 45:01
  Speaker 4: eating or it's up here. Maybe she doesn't want daddy
• 45:06
  Speaker 4: to watch her like he watches those other teenage girls.
• 45:09
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 45:09
  Speaker 4: Maybe she doesn't want to develop and grow up.
• 45:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, very true.
• 45:13
  Speaker 4: Or we had another little one in the studio that
• 45:15
  Speaker 4: was older and but petite and tiny and won everything
• 45:19
  Speaker 4: and got all the auditions because she was 14 but
• 45:22
  Speaker 4: looked 10. Right. And she could read a script like
• 45:24
  Speaker 4: a 14-year-old, right? And maybe she was jealous of her
• 45:28
  Speaker 4: and wanted to be like that and thought, if I
• 45:30
  Speaker 4: don't eat, I won't grow. I don't know. There's something
• 45:32
  Speaker 4: going on.
• 45:33
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 45:33
  Speaker 4: Called the pediatrician. In good faith, the next day, the
• 45:37
  Speaker 4: mother came into the studio, stormed in, and demanded to
• 45:40
  Speaker 4: see me in my office and shut the door and said,
• 45:42
  Speaker 4: how dare you call our pediatrician? That is our business
• 45:46
  Speaker 4: and we are dealing with it. I still don't think
• 45:50
  Speaker 4: they've dealt with it.
• 45:50
  Speaker 2: So what did you do then? Did you say leave?
• 45:53
  Speaker 4: She can't dance.
• 45:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 45:54
  Speaker 4: Until she puts the weight on. And she did. She
• 45:57
  Speaker 4: ended up working for me. She worked on the show
• 45:59
  Speaker 4: a little bit. Oh, okay.
• 46:00
  Speaker 2: So she got better.
• 46:01
  Speaker 4: Yes. But still, I don't think she's better.
• 46:04
  Speaker 2: Right. I mean, that's a hard thing to come over.
• 46:07
  Speaker 2: And then... As the show became so popular and the
• 46:11
  Speaker 2: moms became famous and some of the kids became famous,
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: what was like the best and the worst part of
• 46:18
  Speaker 2: it and yourself included in that? What was the greatest
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: thing about becoming famous and having this hit show? And
• 46:25
  Speaker 2: then what was the worst?
• 46:27
  Speaker 4: Well, the worst was losing my business.
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 46:30
  Speaker 4: Yes. And if I, you know, hindsight again, if I
• 46:34
  Speaker 4: would have demanded that all the kids be homeschooled, before
• 46:38
  Speaker 4: the show started, those six weeks. You have to be
• 46:40
  Speaker 4: homeschooled for the six weeks. And we shot from eight
• 46:42
  Speaker 4: in the morning until four. It's done. Camera crews are gone.
• 46:46
  Speaker 4: And then my business goes back to normal. I would
• 46:49
  Speaker 4: still have a booming business in Pittsburgh till this day.
• 46:52
  Speaker 4: I'm sure of it. Or I would have sold it
• 46:55
  Speaker 4: to somebody and I had something to sell, right?
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 46:58
  Speaker 4: But they didn't. So it destroyed the business.
• 47:02
  Speaker 2: Got it.
• 47:03
  Speaker 4: And with that being said, the moms started to do
• 47:09
  Speaker 4: these meet and greets and charge a hundred bucks for
• 47:11
  Speaker 4: somebody to take a picture with their kid and this
• 47:12
  Speaker 4: and that. But the kid, they were missing their dance classes,
• 47:17
  Speaker 4: their regular training, not the show, of course.
• 47:20
  Speaker 2: But also, and that's also work. That's also, they're working longer, taking,
• 47:24
  Speaker 2: doing meet and greets as a child.
• 47:25
  Speaker 4: There's one mom.
• 47:27
  Speaker 2: And who was going to the meet and greets? I'm
• 47:29
  Speaker 2: sure it was probably mostly girls and boys, but were
• 47:32
  Speaker 2: there any adult men going to these meet and greets?
• 47:34
  Speaker 4: That I don't know about so much because, yeah. But I,
• 47:39
  Speaker 4: you know, I know one kid that built her family
• 47:41
  Speaker 4: a home. They lived in nothing. They came from nothing.
• 47:46
  Speaker 4: And they live in a huge mansion now that the
• 47:48
  Speaker 4: kid built.
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: From the success of the show and going on.
• 47:52
  Speaker 4: In their own private meet and greets and pretending to
• 47:55
  Speaker 4: teach dance classes when they weren't teachers and stuff like that. Yeah.
• 47:59
  Speaker 2: And then with Jojo, I know that she then built
• 48:01
  Speaker 2: this YouTube channel and she had all these products.
• 48:04
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that's a regret. I should have been sitting next
• 48:06
  Speaker 4: to her on the bus learning to edit and upload
• 48:10
  Speaker 4: and do all that myself because Jojo, you give the
• 48:13
  Speaker 4: kid a computer and she'll make you a million dollars.
• 48:15
  Speaker 4: I should have been doing that. I should have had
• 48:17
  Speaker 4: cameras in that studio. I could have been teaching Zoom
• 48:20
  Speaker 4: all over the world then. I mean, we all didn't
• 48:22
  Speaker 4: know what Zoom was till the pandemic. Yeah, I could
• 48:26
  Speaker 4: have done a lot of things with Jojo.
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: That money went towards supporting her family as well. However,
• 48:34
  Speaker 2: she's doing so well now, it's not a problem. Now,
• 48:39
  Speaker 2: if she hadn't built an adult career, You know, which
• 48:44
  Speaker 2: is like the classic thing of, you know. So it's
• 48:46
  Speaker 2: good that everything has worked out for JoJo and she's
• 48:48
  Speaker 2: continuing to be an artist.
• 48:50
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I think she could have kept going with the
• 48:53
  Speaker 4: kid thing too. I mean, kids love her.
• 48:55
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 48:55
  Speaker 4: You know, and now with the resurgence of the show. Right.
• 48:58
  Speaker 4: You know, so I don't know if anyone that's watching.
• 49:01
  Speaker 2: How do you feel about how sexual she's gotten with
• 49:03
  Speaker 2: her art now?
• 49:04
  Speaker 4: You know, well, Richie Jackson is her choreographer. And so
• 49:09
  Speaker 4: I'm working with him on another project. So I knew...
• 49:12
  Speaker 4: what the video was going to be like, the first video.
• 49:14
  Speaker 4: And I knew that every single undulation was choreographed. was
• 49:20
  Speaker 4: counted out. And everybody is so professional on set. It
• 49:25
  Speaker 4: may not look like that, but it was. Because I
• 49:29
  Speaker 4: had some of my girls there that were extras in
• 49:31
  Speaker 4: it too. I think JoJo's laughing all the way to
• 49:35
  Speaker 4: the bank.
• 49:35
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah. I think it's great.
• 49:39
  Speaker 4: Whether she's selling a bow or a sexy song.
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: Or wearing a glittered dick on the cover of a magazine. Whatever.
• 49:46
  Speaker 2: Whatever sells, sells. Yeah, she said in her, I saw
• 49:50
  Speaker 2: a clip from her, which I have not watched the
• 49:52
  Speaker 2: whole thing, but Child Star on Hulu. where she said,
• 49:54
  Speaker 2: I got addicted to the numbers. I got addicted to
• 49:57
  Speaker 2: how many subscribers I had and how many views I
• 49:59
  Speaker 2: had on YouTube. And then I'd set another goal for
• 50:01
  Speaker 2: the following month and the following month and the following.
• 50:04
  Speaker 2: And then one day she said, I don't want this anymore.
• 50:07
  Speaker 2: And I remember I used to be like, first of all,
• 50:10
  Speaker 2: I thought she was gay very young. I was like,
• 50:12
  Speaker 2: this girl's gay and she's wearing these bows and she's
• 50:15
  Speaker 2: too old to be wearing bows. When can she break
• 50:18
  Speaker 2: from the bows and be herself? So I was really
• 50:21
  Speaker 2: happy to see her break and do what she wants,
• 50:25
  Speaker 2: whatever that is, style, singing, dancing.
• 50:28
  Speaker 4: Well, yeah, I'm thrilled that she's still dancing.
• 50:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 50:31
  Speaker 4: I was teaching at her studio Saturday and she showed up.
• 50:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 50:35
  Speaker 4: And she was like, she didn't take my class because
• 50:37
  Speaker 4: my class is too hard.
• 50:38
  Speaker 2: It's interesting that she still loves the fame. I mean,
• 50:41
  Speaker 2: she drives two cars around that her face and her
• 50:45
  Speaker 2: name are wrapped in it. She lives in my neighborhood.
• 50:47
  Speaker 2: I saw her. I chased her down. Oh, good. Well,
• 50:51
  Speaker 2: I don't think she knew who I was. I think
• 50:52
  Speaker 2: she just thought I was a weird mom saying JoJo.
• 50:54
  Speaker 2: Because then I acted like I was walking by the
• 50:55
  Speaker 2: house and I was like, JoJo, Heather Duff from Juicy Scoop.
• 50:58
  Speaker 4: And she's like, hey.
• 50:59
  Speaker 2: And she just went back into her house. But anyway,
• 51:02
  Speaker 2: I think that's great. I think it's great that, you know,
• 51:05
  Speaker 2: she has a good relationship with you.
• 51:08
  Speaker 4: Well, she knows she wouldn't be where she was if
• 51:11
  Speaker 4: it wasn't for the success of the show. And I
• 51:14
  Speaker 4: also think she understands reality TV because she went on,
• 51:19
  Speaker 4: she judges a reality TV show. So she's on the
• 51:22
  Speaker 4: other side of the fence, has to create the drama.
• 51:25
  Speaker 4: She was on that crazy show where they were out
• 51:29
  Speaker 4: in the middle of New Zealand somewhere and she had
• 51:32
  Speaker 4: carried a guy on her back and all that.
• 51:33
  Speaker 2: Special forces.
• 51:34
  Speaker 4: Yes. Special forces. So she's done it. She knows it.
• 51:38
  Speaker 4: All the other kids, even though they went on to
• 51:40
  Speaker 4: maybe do some other things- I'm going to leave that
• 51:44
  Speaker 4: with a facial expression.
• 51:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 51:47
  Speaker 4: They weren't reality TV things.
• 51:50
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 51:51
  Speaker 4: Oh, it was horrible. It was this.
• 51:53
  Speaker 2: It was toxic. Blah, blah, blah.
• 51:54
  Speaker 4: And it's like, you have a million dollars in the bank.
• 51:57
  Speaker 4: You're living in a $ 2 million house that you bought yourself.
• 52:00
  Speaker 4: You're 20 years old. And there's millions of young girls
• 52:06
  Speaker 4: that would trade places with you in a heartbeat. So
• 52:08
  Speaker 4: stop saying it was so tragic. When you were 10,
• 52:11
  Speaker 4: you wanted to win. You wanted to be the best.
• 52:14
  Speaker 4: And you had a week break. Where were you? With
• 52:18
  Speaker 4: me traveling somewhere, being my demonstrator in my class.
• 52:23
  Speaker 2: So now let's cut to when you had to go
• 52:27
  Speaker 2: and do a year in prison.
• 52:29
  Speaker 4: I was in a witch hunt because of the character
• 52:36
  Speaker 4: that I depicted on the show. Guaranteed.
• 52:38
  Speaker 2: Listen, I didn't know you very well and that's what
• 52:40
  Speaker 2: I thought.
• 52:41
  Speaker 4: Well, thank you.
• 52:42
  Speaker 2: I mean, I didn't know you personally and I didn't
• 52:43
  Speaker 2: really watch the show religiously. But just from what I saw,
• 52:47
  Speaker 2: I was like, who is this woman screaming at these
• 52:49
  Speaker 2: little kids all the time? And now she is a
• 52:53
  Speaker 2: convicted criminal.
• 52:54
  Speaker 4: 21 indictments and one stuck. 20 were proven wrong and
• 53:01
  Speaker 4: one stuck. And it sickens me to say this. I
• 53:05
  Speaker 4: went to prison. for eight and a half months. It
• 53:09
  Speaker 4: was a year and a day sentence. I served eight
• 53:11
  Speaker 4: and a half months because I was maybe going to
• 53:16
  Speaker 4: walk away from a vacation home in 2010.
• 53:19
  Speaker 2: What do you mean walk away from a vacation home?
• 53:23
  Speaker 4: We couldn't, my bankruptcy attorneys were trying to get Chase Bank,
• 53:28
  Speaker 4: who held the mortgage at that time on my house,
• 53:31
  Speaker 4: the adjustable mortgage, to negotiate a standard rate, a set rate,
• 53:39
  Speaker 4: so it wasn't adjustable anymore. And they couldn't get them
• 53:45
  Speaker 4: to play ball. They couldn't get a hold of them.
• 53:47
  Speaker 4: They wouldn't email back. They wouldn't phone call back. Nothing.
• 53:51
  Speaker 4: Could not get through. And I live in a cul-de-sac.
• 53:55
  Speaker 4: It's not a cul-de-sac. It's like a round loop. And
• 53:59
  Speaker 4: seven houses out of the 11 people left. They just
• 54:02
  Speaker 4: walked away from their homes and their mortgage. Because a
• 54:05
  Speaker 4: lot of expats in Orlando bought vacation homes. And till
• 54:11
  Speaker 4: this day, I still own that house. I still make
• 54:16
  Speaker 4: the payments. I never walked away from it.
• 54:18
  Speaker 2: So what?
• 54:19
  Speaker 4: My bankruptcy attorney on my behalf without my knowledge because
• 54:22
  Speaker 4: I made it perfectly clear I wasn't giving up the
• 54:25
  Speaker 4: house because I was too afraid I wouldn't get credit
• 54:28
  Speaker 4: again to buy another home. Okay. That was my philosophy.
• 54:31
  Speaker 4: So I was sticking by that. No, no, no. Just, just.
• 54:35
  Speaker 2: So if you were to go back, you would have
• 54:36
  Speaker 2: been like, take everything. Or are you okay with now
• 54:40
  Speaker 2: that the time is done?
• 54:41
  Speaker 4: Yes. You would have said take it. Well, I would
• 54:43
  Speaker 4: have went back. I would have just paid it off.
• 54:45
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 54:46
  Speaker 4: With the TV show. But you're not allowed to do
• 54:48
  Speaker 4: that in bankruptcy.
• 54:50
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 54:50
  Speaker 4: You can't get a chunk of money and pay one
• 54:52
  Speaker 4: person back.
• 54:53
  Speaker 2: Oh, okay.
• 54:53
  Speaker 4: You can't. So I owed that $ 37, 000. Got it. And
• 54:56
  Speaker 4: when they put everything all in, my cars, my house,
• 55:00
  Speaker 4: my parents' house, everything in, it was $ 620, 000. That was it.
• 55:07
  Speaker 4: That was it.
• 55:08
  Speaker 2: So what was prison like for eight months?
• 55:11
  Speaker 4: Hell.
• 55:12
  Speaker 2: You didn't make any friends?
• 55:13
  Speaker 4: I made wonderful friends.
• 55:15
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 55:15
  Speaker 4: I made a best friend that I still have.
• 55:18
  Speaker 2: Oh, that's good.
• 55:18
  Speaker 4: Shout out to Michelle. Yeah.
• 55:20
  Speaker 2: And so were you with like white collar criminals or
• 55:24
  Speaker 2: were you with any like murderers?
• 55:25
  Speaker 4: I was with white collar criminals who just got there.
• 55:29
  Speaker 4: Or I was with hard criminals who worked their way
• 55:33
  Speaker 4: up status wise with good behavior.
• 55:35
  Speaker 2: To be in a more lenient.
• 55:36
  Speaker 4: To be in a camp, a prison camp.
• 55:38
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 55:38
  Speaker 4: Yes. It was like... Your parents dropped you off at
• 55:43
  Speaker 4: the wrong Girl Scout camp.
• 55:45
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 55:46
  Speaker 4: Not the one with the horseback riding in the swimming pool.
• 55:48
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 55:49
  Speaker 4: In the good food. The other one, the cheap one.
• 55:52
  Speaker 4: That's what it was like.
• 55:53
  Speaker 2: And there were like bunk beds all in one room?
• 55:55
  Speaker 4: At the beginning.
• 55:56
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 55:56
  Speaker 4: You stay there and then you get assigned a square.
• 56:00
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 56:01
  Speaker 4: A rectangle, if you will. So it's all one room.
• 56:03
  Speaker 4: The ceiling's open.
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 56:05
  Speaker 4: But you're in with two girls and you have two
• 56:08
  Speaker 4: sets of lockers. In a bunk bed. And I was
• 56:12
  Speaker 4: on the bottom.
• 56:13
  Speaker 2: And at any point did you set up a dance
• 56:16
  Speaker 2: team there?
• 56:17
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 56:18
  Speaker 2: You did.
• 56:20
  Speaker 4: So your visitors come on the weekend and instead of
• 56:23
  Speaker 4: it just being the normal candy out of the vending machine,
• 56:26
  Speaker 4: it's party for the holidays.
• 56:28
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 56:28
  Speaker 4: So Christmas or Hanukkah, whatever you, you know.
• 56:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 56:31
  Speaker 4: And of course, I got a group of girls together
• 56:35
  Speaker 4: and I taught them Santa Claus is coming to town.
• 56:38
  Speaker 4: It's a 60s number. Same. class come but the pointer
• 56:41
  Speaker 4: sisters we got the music.
• 56:43
  Speaker 2: And then their families got to see it yes oh
• 56:46
  Speaker 2: that's so cute that's so sweet we took pictures we
• 56:49
  Speaker 2: had group pictures and it was fabulous at any point
• 56:53
  Speaker 2: when you got there what did were there was there
• 56:56
  Speaker 2: any time that people were mean and bullying yes because
• 56:59
  Speaker 2: you're famous until they got to know you yes and
• 57:02
  Speaker 2: what kind of bullying type of mean thing would they
• 57:04
  Speaker 2: do it was the guards oh the guards were bitter
• 57:07
  Speaker 2: and off not the not the prisoners No.
• 57:09
  Speaker 4: Some of them were just like, who does she think
• 57:11
  Speaker 4: she is?
• 57:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 57:12
  Speaker 4: Other ones were, oh my God, you have made this
• 57:17
  Speaker 4: okay for me. Oh, that's nice. Because my children were
• 57:20
  Speaker 4: so humiliated, embarrassed, angry with me, not speaking with me.
• 57:24
  Speaker 4: They wanted to disown me. And then you come here
• 57:27
  Speaker 4: and suddenly I'm cool because you know Abby Lee Miller.
• 57:32
  Speaker 4: We want to come visit you. Can we see her?
• 57:34
  Speaker 4: Oh my God.
• 57:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah.
• 57:36
  Speaker 4: Yeah. So that was great.
• 57:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 57:40
  Speaker 4: And I took a lot of.
• 57:40
  Speaker 2: Pictures with a lot of kids. What about lesbian love
• 57:43
  Speaker 2: in prison?
• 57:44
  Speaker 4: I think if you're a lesbian before you go in,
• 57:47
  Speaker 4: you're a lesbian there. Okay. There was a few people
• 57:49
  Speaker 4: I think turned that way. Yeah. Just because they needed something.
• 57:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 57:54
  Speaker 4: And they're there for years and years and years. I, no.
• 57:59
  Speaker 4: I like hot guys.
• 58:00
  Speaker 2: You didn't see anyone do the family thing where it'd
• 58:04
  Speaker 2: be like a family where they'd act like a mom
• 58:06
  Speaker 2: and dad and then another girl would act like their
• 58:08
  Speaker 2: child and they'd form a little weird family unit?
• 58:11
  Speaker 4: No, no.
• 58:11
  Speaker 2: I've seen that.
• 58:12
  Speaker 4: Most of the drama was over the microwave.
• 58:16
  Speaker 2: Oh, how many people can use it or waiting?
• 58:19
  Speaker 4: Waiting in line to use it. And so I get
• 58:21
  Speaker 4: there and I think, well, what's the big deal? I'm
• 58:23
  Speaker 4: just going to have my friend Diana order a couple
• 58:25
  Speaker 4: dozen microwaves like So I did. I ordered a dozen
• 58:29
  Speaker 4: for one unit and a dozen for the other unit.
• 58:31
  Speaker 4: And they came and they got turned away.
• 58:33
  Speaker 2: They got turned away. Oh, because they wouldn't allow it.
• 58:36
  Speaker 4: Of course you're not allowed. But I didn't know that.
• 58:38
  Speaker 2: You just thought it would be nice.
• 58:39
  Speaker 4: Another time the kitchen was broken or something happened and
• 58:42
  Speaker 4: they had to give us bagged lunch with peanut butter
• 58:45
  Speaker 4: and jelly and an apple or whatever. And I said,
• 58:47
  Speaker 4: can't we just order pizza? Like, oh, I can do it.
• 58:50
  Speaker 4: I'll order the pizza. Like, what?
• 58:52
  Speaker 2: Like, It's very backwards. Did the guards get nicer to
• 58:56
  Speaker 2: you once they got to know you?
• 58:58
  Speaker 4: Some of the guards, well, I shouldn't say guards. Some
• 59:00
  Speaker 4: of the- Correctional officers? Counselors.
• 59:03
  Speaker 2: Oh, okay.
• 59:04
  Speaker 4: Stuff like that. They were like, what are you doing here?
• 59:09
  Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.
• 59:10
  Speaker 4: Read your entire case. What are you doing here? It's ridiculous.
• 59:14
  Speaker 4: If this would have happened in California, you would have
• 59:15
  Speaker 4: got a letter in the mail.
• 59:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 59:20
  Speaker 4: So that was tough to take.
• 59:21
  Speaker 2: So we're going to wrap it up. But in doing
• 59:24
  Speaker 2: all of this- How do you feel about like in conclusion?
• 59:31
  Speaker 4: Well, conclusion, they took me off my medication and that
• 59:35
  Speaker 4: caused me to be in this chair. At the prison.
• 59:38
  Speaker 4: Cold turkey. Metformin for diabetes.
• 59:41
  Speaker 2: Oh.
• 59:42
  Speaker 4: And very high dose, 325 of thyroid medication, Levoxil and Synthroid.
• 59:48
  Speaker 4: And they took me off of a cold turkey, I feel,
• 59:50
  Speaker 4: as a punishment for something that happened. And they... I
• 59:56
  Speaker 4: got out, and a week later, I was visiting six
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 4: doctors in 10 days, getting, go home and take it easy, honey,
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 4: when they see that you're in prison or coming from
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 4: a halfway house. And I had cancer choking my spinal cord.
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 4: It left me in a chair. If any one of
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 4: those six doctors are listening, if you would have caught
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 4: it sooner, if you would have believed me and listened
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 4: to me, I wouldn't be in this chair.
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 2: Wow. So in looking back at everything, do you feel
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 2: that like the series of events of being on this show,
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 2: do you just feel like you were taken great advantage of? Absolutely.
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 2: And then like a series of unfortunate events then followed through?
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 4: I don't know if they were unfortunate or they were
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 4: calculated events.
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 2: Right. Yeah.
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 2: Definitely. And had catastrophic events. you know, results.
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 4: Yes, absolutely.
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 2: So now going forward, you have such like a positive attitude.
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 2: They didn't kill that.
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 4: Thank you. I think that God let me live, so
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 4: I need to live.
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 2: I think God let you live to redeem yourself here
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 2: on Juicy Scoop.
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 4: Well, I'm thrilled to be here. It's fabulous. And I
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 4: love your necklace. I'm going to need one of those
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 4: for my show. Thank you.
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 2: Yes. But I do think like, you know, I know
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 2: that you said you're working on other projects. You have
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 2: other things going. You are a really positive light. It
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 2: really was definitely not portrayed in the show.
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 4: Never saw the good times. You never saw the laughter
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 4: with the kids.
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 2: No, you never did.
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 4: And I just had that.
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 2: And so what would be your advice to somebody that
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 2: might be in some other business or whatnot and they go,
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 2: oh my God, they want to make a reality show
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 2: about me or I'm up for joining a reality show.
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 2: What would be your advice to someone like that?
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 4: Get a really good attorney, get an even better accountant,
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 4: and then question every single thing that they do. Read
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 4: the fine print.
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's good advice. I didn't do that.
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 4: Yeah. I was working. I had a camera on my
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 4: face 12 hours a day every day.
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 2: I also think you started, what year did you begin? 2011.
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 4: That's still beginnings of reality show.
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 2: I mean, we're 2024 now. That was 13 years ago.
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 2: Like a lot has happened. And you certainly....
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 4: I think they go after people.
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 2: There was no way to be savvy at that time
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 2: as a dance studio teacher. Yeah, in Pittsburgh, not in Hollywood,
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 2: not having a TV background. Like, what do you expect?
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 2: You know, and who would have thought? Again, you thought
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 2: it was going to be six weeks. Who would have
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 2: thought it would be this huge success? And then once
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 2: the train has left the station, like, then what are
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 2: you supposed to do, you know?
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 4: Right. And I just felt I'm a woman. I'm a
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 4: confident woman. I'm a strong woman. I get my fight
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 4: from my dad.
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 4: But had he been alive... He would have punched that
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 4: Satan guy in the face and they would have not
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 4: got in my studio for free.
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 4: You know what I'm saying?
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 4: Things would have been a little different. I didn't have
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 4: anyone that had my back.
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 4: I had friends. I still have them. They're my dear,
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 4: dear friends forever. But they weren't in a position to say, whoa, whoa,
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 4: wait a minute. You're not coming in here. They didn't
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 4: know TV either.
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 2: Have any of those mothers that you may have had
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 2: conflict with, have any of them come around and try
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 2: to reconnect in a positive way? Or have any of
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 2: them come back and been that much more vengeful?
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 4: You mean the one that stole money from me and
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 4: took money from me?
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 2: Who took money from you?
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 4: And forged checks?
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 2: One of them did?
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 2: And is that out there as public record?
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 4: Melissa.
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 2: Oh, okay.
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 4: Yeah, Maddie McKenzie's mom.
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 2: Oh.
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 4: McKenzie's had a little music career I started that I
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 4: believed in her because she wasn't that great of a dancer.
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 4: So I thought she likes to sing. We'll do this.
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 4: And we did It's a Girl Party. It went to
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 4: number one in three countries. It's still out there. It's
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 4: still making money. And I haven't seen one dime. And
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 4: we had a 360 deal with the kid. And she
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 4: just moves on and signs something else with somebody else. Yeah.
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 4: So it's been a lot.
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 2: But are there any moms that you're close with or
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 2: regained a friendship with?
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 4: JoJo's mom and I. Yes. Brynn's mom, Ashley. Oh, goodness. Yeah.
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 4: Lots of them.
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 2: Oh, that's good.
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 2: Good, good.
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 4: But the original ones from my studio that paid $ 242
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 4: a month. dance tuition for 16 hours and ended up
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 4: with millions from their dancing school. Like from there.
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 4: No.
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 2: Interesting.
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 4: None. I was dying in the hospital. Dying. Not one
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 4: visitor from those kids. Some kids did come, but not
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 4: those original kids.
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 4: But JoJo walked in with a $ 10, 000 check from Dancers
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 4: Against Cancer for me. That's great.
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 4: I just gave it back last month to the charity.
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 4: That's great.
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 2: Cause now you're doing much better.
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 2: And so tell everybody where they can follow you and
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 2: find you and, and listen to what you're doing.
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 4: So my podcast is leave it on the dance floor
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 4: and wherever you listen to your podcast, uh, check it out,
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 4: please subscribe, like turn on your post notifications. My Instagram
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 4: is at the real Abby Lee, uh, Tik TOK at
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 4: the real Abby Lee. And, uh, mainly my YouTube channel,
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 4: Abby Lee Miller. Please, please, please go watch, subscribe. It's fabulous.
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 2: Awesome. Well, this has been so great.
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 4: Thank you so much.
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 2: I learned so much.
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 4: It's fascinating.
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 4: We can go to lunch.
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 2: Yes. Okay. Thank you.
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 4: Thank you.
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 2: Well, thank you so much, you guys. I love you.
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 2: And as you know, go to heathermcdonald.net to join my
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 2: Patreon and also to buy my tickets for my February shows.
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 2: What a great treat for Christmas, you guys. Get those
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 2: tickets now and get the best seats that are still available.
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 2: And that's February 14th, New York City. February 15th, Washington, D.C.
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 2: February 16th, Red Bank, New Jersey. That is a Valentine's
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 2: holiday weekend. So what a perfect time to go and
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 2: see a funny stand-up show.
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 4: Thank you.
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 2: The car is beautiful. Where did you end up going
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 2: for it?
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 3: This exclusive place that Dad has connections with. They have
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 3: more cars for more dealerships than, like, anywhere else.
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 2: You have to put me in touch.
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 1: What's it called?
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 2: It's Dunediel.
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 1: Where?
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 2: Dunediel. There's an accent on the E.
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 4: Do you mean.
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 2: Yes, I got it on Dunediel Cars.
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 1: Lift?
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 2: Please. You going past Kimmage? Oh, Kimmage.
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 1: No.
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 2: Dunediel Cars. You couldn't possibly go anywhere else.