Latest / The Overland Journal Podcast / Rafiki on Tour on Overlanding Africa as a Couple

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Rafiki on Tour on Overlanding Africa as a Couple · The Overland Journal Podcast

• 0:07
  Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to the Overland Journals podcast. I'm your host,
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: Ashley Jordana, and in today's podcast from the Field, I'm
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: joined by Dutch Overlanders Tobias Amnon also known as Rafiki
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: on Tour. Tobias and Manana, I've traveled through Africa for
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: the past two and a half years and their land
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: where we're Defender one ten. In this episode, we dive
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: into the realities of beginning an overland journey with somebody
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: you don't know very well and becoming a couple along
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: the way. We also answer questions from the Overland Journal
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: audience about bribe etiquette, the realities of traveling with the
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: dog in Africa, and more. Thank you for joining I
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: hope you enjoyed this episode joining us on the Overland
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: Journal podcast. Today we're recording from the Field. I'm in Colombna,
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: British Columbia, just enjoying my morning coffee before sunrise, while
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: my guests Manon and Tobias of Rafiki on Tour are
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: winding down for the day in Zambia. I think welcome,
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: Thank you very much. You're in Zambia.
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: Rights border No. He crossed borders a few days ago
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: into Tanzania.
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: Oh awesome. It's hard to keep track of you guys
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: are always on the move, so that's awesome. Yeah, Tanzania.
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: So thank you so much for joining me on the
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: over lad Journal podcast. You to have an amazing story.
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: You've been traveling Africa for a couple of years, maybe more.
• 1:27
  Speaker 3: Now, maybe close to two and a half.
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: Wow, Oh my goodness. So starting in Europe, coming down
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: the west side, and spending quite a bit of time
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: in South and eastern Africa, right.
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so maybe hop back a little bit tough the beginning.
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: Guess our initial aim was to be on the road
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: for a year, circumnavigating the whole confident. But I think
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: by the time we hit Morocco or the south of Morocco,
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: we already found out like a year is never gonna happen.
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: And I think it took us about a year to
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: get to Angola, Gobon Gobono on the west coast, and yeah,
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: then I think another year in southern Africa, and I
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: guess now almost six months more going northeast.
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: Incredible. I love the story of how you guys Bet
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: and took off traveling together. Could you share a little
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: bit about that with the OJ audience.
• 2:29
  Speaker 4: It's a funny story, and I think we're gonna have
• 2:32
  Speaker 4: to fill in parts like both of us, so maybe
• 2:35
  Speaker 4: you start.
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So I've had Rafiki since twenty fifteen.
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: That's your over the years defender.
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: Defender, yes, perfect, yes, And I've done multiple trips with it,
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: just holidays, weekends, then two big trips in Europe, and
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: I actually wanted to do South America on the second trip,
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: but that was around twenty twenty beginning of twenty twenty,
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: so he sticked around in Europe, and then once I
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: got back from that one, I actually started looking for
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: a travel buddy because the first two trips I did
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: with somebody I didn't know before. Oh wow, some guy
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: I met online and we just became great friends over
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: the years. And then when we got back, it was like,
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: I'm in contact with a girl and she would be
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: the perfect fit. And I was like, oh, maybe something
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: comes in and nothing into the male bode. So I
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: just kept looking and it was May twenty twenty two
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: that I quit my job and I had two potential
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: travel buddies, one for South America one for Africa, but
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: both of them had their things. It just wasn't completely right.
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: So I told them both it's not gonna work. I'm
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: gonna stay in Europe for now, quit my job, and
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: I started or I wanted to start traveling the first
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: of July, and nobody sent me a message or that
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: girl never sent that message. And it was in that
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: same week that I quit my job that a message
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: from you came in.
• 4:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 4:14
  Speaker 4: And then the funny thing is so when spenn Tobia's
• 4:18
  Speaker 4: friend said like, hey, I met a nice girl that
• 4:22
  Speaker 4: was on Instagram, and I replied to a video that
• 4:25
  Speaker 4: I saw of a land Rover in Norway and I
• 4:27
  Speaker 4: was like, oh man, that's cool, Like where did you go?
• 4:30
  Speaker 4: How long were you traveling for? And he was like
• 4:34
  Speaker 4: talking to me, very like genuinely explaining what he did
• 4:37
  Speaker 4: and when he did it. But it only came up
• 4:40
  Speaker 4: later in the conversation that it wasn't his land rover
• 4:44
  Speaker 4: but his friends.
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  Speaker 3: And he then said like, okay, would you like to
• 4:48
  Speaker 3: go because.
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  Speaker 4: He's looking for someone. But I had no intention of leaving.
• 4:53
  Speaker 4: It was like, I think August twenty one and I
• 4:56
  Speaker 4: was like, well, no, I don't know this guy, like
• 4:59
  Speaker 4: why would I?
• 5:00
  Speaker 3: And eight months later in May, I was really.
• 5:04
  Speaker 4: Looking for a way out so I actually had thoughts
• 5:08
  Speaker 4: of moving to Canada, which has been a dream of
• 5:10
  Speaker 4: mine for very long.
• 5:12
  Speaker 3: But I knew, like.
• 5:14
  Speaker 4: I knew like, if I'm going to move there right now,
• 5:17
  Speaker 4: the life of travel will probably be like, will never
• 5:21
  Speaker 4: be fulfilled, so I'll have to look for something more adventurous.
• 5:26
  Speaker 4: And in the same week, I applied for a job
• 5:30
  Speaker 4: in Kenya, Africa, and I also reached out to Tobiel's
• 5:34
  Speaker 4: and I was like, okay, wait, your profile says leaving
• 5:38
  Speaker 4: first of July looking for travel buddy, and it was
• 5:42
  Speaker 4: like end of May. And I was like, that's strange,
• 5:44
  Speaker 4: isn't it Like five weeks before you leave, you're still
• 5:47
  Speaker 4: looking for someone. And that's when you said like, yeah,
• 5:50
  Speaker 4: I'm still looking. Are you interested? And I was like, oh, shoot,
• 5:55
  Speaker 4: like I just sent this out of curiosity, not because
• 5:58
  Speaker 4: I'm genuinely like thinking about this. It was very spontaneous
• 6:02
  Speaker 4: and impulsive, I would say.
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  Speaker 2: And I was like, I'm all in three days, I
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: could come to your round.
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: And she's like, yeah, I come to my house.
• 6:13
  Speaker 4: Well, at the time, because of COVID, I was living
• 6:16
  Speaker 4: with my parents and I knew, like, if this is
• 6:19
  Speaker 4: going to be something they will want to meet him.
• 6:23
  Speaker 4: So I said, yeah, sure, come to my house and
• 6:25
  Speaker 4: we'll go for a hike. I live near a forest,
• 6:27
  Speaker 4: and that Wednesday we never left a coffee table.
• 6:30
  Speaker 3: It was just three hours of straight.
• 6:32
  Speaker 4: Talking and we had so many things in common that
• 6:36
  Speaker 4: you proposed the same same afternoon, like, yeah, let's go
• 6:39
  Speaker 4: for a weekend. We'll just go camping. See how things
• 6:42
  Speaker 4: go while we do that. So it went very very
• 6:47
  Speaker 4: quickly from that point onwards.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, we did that a week later. And then on
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: the way back from Belgium because we went kayaking, we
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: went swimming and rivers, just camping in the forest, and
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: on the way back me, are we actually going to
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: do this? And that's when we just said yeah to
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: the adventure. And actually in that weekend, she also convinced
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: me to move on from South America and go to
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: Africa instead.
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: Whow where were you living that.
• 7:17
  Speaker 3: Both in the Netherlands?
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: Okay, nice, that is such, but.
• 7:21
  Speaker 4: The funny thing was, sorry, we've never been to Africa,
• 7:25
  Speaker 4: neither of us. So me applying for that job in
• 7:28
  Speaker 4: Kenya was the whole reason why I wanted to go
• 7:31
  Speaker 4: to Africa instead of South America. And we're now two
• 7:35
  Speaker 4: and a half years on the road and we've never
• 7:37
  Speaker 4: been to the country that I wanted to see so badly,
• 7:39
  Speaker 4: which is Kenya. So I mean, yeah, it happened the
• 7:44
  Speaker 4: way it happened. But I guess we were both very
• 7:47
  Speaker 4: like in the moment saying yes to it without any
• 7:51
  Speaker 4: prior thought of how Africa would be, Like we came
• 7:54
  Speaker 4: into Morocco not knowing anything about the culture, so we
• 7:58
  Speaker 4: were very I would say we were rookies Africa wise.
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely.
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Wow, that is quite a story. Like to take
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: a chance on a stranger like that and be like, yeah,
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  Speaker 1: I'm gonna travel with somebody for that like the time
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: that I don't know takes a lot of trust. So
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: it really speaks to the connection that you had on
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: meeting and how meant to be it was. That's that's
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: pretty Oh.
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and it's been great because of course things
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: evolved between us and then right from I would say
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: almost the start of Africa, we just skipped on the
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: one year plan and just said let's just see how
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: things go because there's no need to go back home.
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  Speaker 1: So that was good, amazing. Where is there kind of
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: like a period of time where you were traveling like
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: where you were not dating but like not not dating
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: and kind of living together in a small space, like
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: how did how did that look?
• 9:02
  Speaker 3: Well?
• 9:02
  Speaker 4: When we met, I just got out of a relationship
• 9:06
  Speaker 4: and I was very like, I don't know how you
• 9:10
  Speaker 4: say that in English, but very firm and saying I
• 9:14
  Speaker 4: don't want a relationship at all. I was not looking
• 9:17
  Speaker 4: for a life partner or anything. I just wanted to escape,
• 9:21
  Speaker 4: escape life. And I knew we had a great connection
• 9:24
  Speaker 4: so we could be friends. But in the beginning, it
• 9:26
  Speaker 4: was like we would get into bed, separate sleeping bags,
• 9:30
  Speaker 4: and I would be like, yeah, can you just turn
• 9:32
  Speaker 4: around and then I can like.
• 9:34
  Speaker 3: Put on my sleeping shirt and very awkwardly.
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  Speaker 2: Because it's just one roof of them. Yeah we know
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  Speaker 2: they're quite okay size wise, but it's still just one tiny.
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  Speaker 4: Ten And then the same for showering, like we would
• 9:47
  Speaker 4: go into rivers a lot in Europe, which was the
• 9:49
  Speaker 4: first five weeks, rivers or lakes, and either we would
• 9:54
  Speaker 4: wash ourselves in swimwear, yeah, or if we wouldn't want that,
• 9:59
  Speaker 4: then I I'd be like, yeah, yeah, you can go first,
• 10:02
  Speaker 4: I'll come second, you know, like very awkward, and it's
• 10:06
  Speaker 4: not that I mind, like I go to the sauna,
• 10:10
  Speaker 4: for example in Europe and I don't care.
• 10:13
  Speaker 3: But because it.
• 10:14
  Speaker 4: Was such a new friendship relationship, everything felt kind of
• 10:20
  Speaker 4: like you were looking at it through a looking glass magnified.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, but it is fun because things go super quick,
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: of course, because when you're dating, everybody's looking nice, and
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: it's just like two hours or three hours maybe, and
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: then you part ways and now it's right from the start,
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: it was just twenty for seven. I see everything. I
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: see all the good and all the head and same
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: for you about me of course.
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like a crash course in dating and over landing.
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: Wow yeah, wow, what a unique experience that I think
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: most couples had out already married or already dating or whatever.
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: So that's a really unique experience.
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  Speaker 2: And in all almost the in West Africa, you're really
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: so like couples grow closer to each other or they
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: break up or actually they just need to go home
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: to prevent that, and we just grow closer to each other,
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: but starting as strangers. So yeah, it was fun to
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: see that.
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: What a beautiful story. That's so yeah, I love it.
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: How did you? It was my question I was going
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: to ask, oh, like what you've learned along the way
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: living with another person in such a small space because
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: you both I don't know if this is I mean
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: to why as you traveled with somebody else for a while,
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: But this is a different situation, I'm assuming, so yeah.
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think if I can compare both situations, I think,
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: of course it's different now. Also if the other guy
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: we had completely different rhythms as well, so that meant
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: I would go up at get up at seven in
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: the morning or eight, and he would get out of
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: bed at ten and he would go into bed at
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: I don't know, two in the night, whilst I would
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: go to bed at ten or eleven. So we had
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: our own time and that really helped. And I think
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: now as well, just knowing when the other needs some
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: time off, and that can just be doing yeah for you,
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: your own thing, or just driving without talking like that
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: can be super awkward with people. And if you can
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: drive if somebody without talking, I think that says a lot.
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we do that a lot for sure.
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, So for me, I think it's just yeah,
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: having or knowing when the other person just needs their time,
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: their own time, and you can still be together in
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: the same car or in the same tent, or when
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: they're the same awning, but just knowing when do you
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: just do your own thing?
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 13:02
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and also being able to express that to one
• 13:04
  Speaker 4: another because I've been, like I would say, I've always
• 13:10
  Speaker 4: been kind of like a free, doing my own thing
• 13:14
  Speaker 4: kind of person, and when we got together in the
• 13:18
  Speaker 4: travel situation, that kind of disappeared. So you start doing
• 13:22
  Speaker 4: everything together because you don't want one to carry more
• 13:26
  Speaker 4: load than you're carrying. So it feels bad to say
• 13:30
  Speaker 4: I need a moment for myself. You just work on
• 13:33
  Speaker 4: the camp or on something else. And I think past years,
• 13:38
  Speaker 4: so since January, I've been trying to express more often
• 13:43
  Speaker 4: like Okay, now I need a moment. So that could
• 13:45
  Speaker 4: be like before we wind down the evening in the
• 13:48
  Speaker 4: rooft of tent, I can say like, okay, I need
• 13:50
  Speaker 4: like fifteen minutes just to wind down myself. And I
• 13:54
  Speaker 4: don't do that by watching a movie, but for example,
• 13:57
  Speaker 4: by meditating or in the morning, like we have a
• 14:01
  Speaker 4: very steady rhythm of getting up at eight, but I
• 14:04
  Speaker 4: actually like it to get up earlier and to take
• 14:07
  Speaker 4: some time just to be with myself, either that be
• 14:12
  Speaker 4: bird watching or journaling or just sitting and that doesn't
• 14:16
  Speaker 4: always feel nice because I mean it's cozy when you're
• 14:19
  Speaker 4: in bed together and you wake up together, and like,
• 14:23
  Speaker 4: I guess that's nice intimate time, which if you're overlanding
• 14:28
  Speaker 4: full time it can be. Sometimes it can feel like
• 14:31
  Speaker 4: you're more of a team than in a relationship because
• 14:34
  Speaker 4: you're like both really going for it, especially in Africa
• 14:37
  Speaker 4: when there's always challenges or missions or things to.
• 14:41
  Speaker 3: Take off your list.
• 14:43
  Speaker 4: So we really cherish the time that we are there
• 14:46
  Speaker 4: for each other.
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: So our dog she also like pulls us away from
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: each other for a bit every like a few times
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: a day, which also helps because we go to one
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: and a half years ago in Nigeria and we love
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: to go and walk together with the three of us.
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: But also in the morning it's mostly you prepping the
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: food and then I'll take her for a spend somewhere.
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: That also helps your US or US or metime, depending
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: on what we look for.
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: Very cool.
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: She's been a nice edition.
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I was gonna say, what's your dog's theme? And
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: I'd love to hear how she was brought into the mix.
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you want to start with this one.
• 15:31
  Speaker 4: The name, so she's called Nimba, which is actually a
• 15:35
  Speaker 4: mountain on the border of Guinea, Hiera Leone and every coast. Yes,
• 15:44
  Speaker 4: and when we were parked up there, we were watching
• 15:47
  Speaker 4: the mountain. It was covered in clouds and it was
• 15:49
  Speaker 4: so beautiful, and we said, this is a really nice
• 15:52
  Speaker 4: name for if one day we get a dog. And
• 15:57
  Speaker 4: I don't know if you've ever looked into traveling Africa
• 16:00
  Speaker 4: with a dog, but if you look into it, many
• 16:02
  Speaker 4: people say it's difficult. So this thought of ours was
• 16:06
  Speaker 4: really focused towards getting back to Europe, going to Greece
• 16:09
  Speaker 4: where there's lots of dogs on the street, and maybe
• 16:11
  Speaker 4: rescuing a dog there. We never thought we were going
• 16:15
  Speaker 4: to find the dog in Africa and decide on taking
• 16:18
  Speaker 4: him or her with us. But then a little bit
• 16:22
  Speaker 4: onwards in Nigeria, which was in May twenty three, so
• 16:27
  Speaker 4: I think like ten months sin Stra trip, yeah, something
• 16:29
  Speaker 4: like that, things changed and we couldn't say no.
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because then we we were traveling through Nigeria with
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: five cars, yeah, just because and convoy they just before
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: going yeah, convoy, which was super fun. But then just
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: before crossing into the mountains between Nigeria and Cameroon, we
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: rolled into I think the last camp before the tarmac
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: ends basically, and we split up the convoy two and three,
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: and so we were in first and then we parked
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: up and then suddenly underneath the other car comes this
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: tiny little puppy and we were parked up in this
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: little compound with apartments basically, but it was more or
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: less abandoned, like there was a shower room like a bathroom,
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: but there was no shower head, there was nothing, water
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: came from a well, there was no electricity. There was
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: just one guy managing the place basically, so it was
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: a horrible place. And then there was this tiny little
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: puppy and super scared as well. She didn't want to
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: have any of our treats because the other three cars
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: one of the cars had two dogs by that so
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: we were having dog treats for the other dogs. So
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: we tried to give the dog or they had the
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: treats to her, which was like no, no, I'm afraid
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: of humans.
• 17:53
  Speaker 4: She was a really scared soul, like she wasn't being
• 17:55
  Speaker 4: treated well. I think we think she was about two
• 17:58
  Speaker 4: months old based on the size, so I mean, well
• 18:03
  Speaker 4: she should have been with her mother at least, but
• 18:06
  Speaker 4: she wasn't and we could see that no one was
• 18:10
  Speaker 4: really taking care of her. So only things she ate
• 18:13
  Speaker 4: or got to eat were bones, like leftovers from the
• 18:17
  Speaker 4: people that were living there, and these first of all, yeah,
• 18:20
  Speaker 4: food scraps, but it wasn't much, and they were throwing
• 18:23
  Speaker 4: stones at her, so that all became quite evident in
• 18:27
  Speaker 4: the first few hours. So her not taking treats from
• 18:31
  Speaker 4: us was very logical, I would say, in a sense.
• 18:35
  Speaker 4: But we tried to earn her trust well in the
• 18:38
  Speaker 4: first few hours and the days after.
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because by the time the other three cars arrived,
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: one of the cars broke down in the driveway, and
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: then we spent the next two weeks in that compound
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: fixing that car. Oh wow, and the other three cars
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: left came back, and then we decided rainy season is coming, leave,
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: We'll stick with the guys because we have work to do,
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: we have the tools, we have the knowledge, we can
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: at least help. So he stayed with them for two weeks,
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: and in that time it was mostly me fixing the
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: helping trying to fix the car, and it was mostly
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: you with the girl from the other car, taking care
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: of the dogs, trusting her or trying to earn her trust.
• 19:23
  Speaker 4: The lovely thing was they had everything we needed to
• 19:27
  Speaker 4: make her healthy again. So because they had two dogs,
• 19:30
  Speaker 4: we could deworm her, take her ticks off, wash her,
• 19:35
  Speaker 4: make sure she didn't have any fleas anymore. We just
• 19:38
  Speaker 4: fed her the simplest things like rice and fish out
• 19:41
  Speaker 4: of cans, just to get well, some food into her.
• 19:44
  Speaker 4: Because her fur was so thin, you could just see
• 19:47
  Speaker 4: her skin. So that was all like a very intense period.
• 19:52
  Speaker 4: But because we had those friends with dogs, it was
• 19:55
  Speaker 4: I think the most lucky we've ever been. Yeah, And
• 19:58
  Speaker 4: because they had two dogs, she was so eager to learn.
• 20:04
  Speaker 4: So she was just picking up their behavior, like sitting
• 20:08
  Speaker 4: when they were getting food, and she was like, okay,
• 20:09
  Speaker 4: i'll sit too because maybe i'll get something. So the
• 20:14
  Speaker 4: things that you would normally have to teach a dog
• 20:17
  Speaker 4: she picked up instantly. And then after two weeks, when
• 20:21
  Speaker 4: she was clean and fed and we were well really
• 20:24
  Speaker 4: looking like are we going to leave this compound today
• 20:27
  Speaker 4: or tomorrow? Because the things were fixed with the car,
• 20:31
  Speaker 4: it was like, shoot, are we going to take her
• 20:35
  Speaker 4: or leave her?
• 20:36
  Speaker 3: Or well what are we going to do?
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: And then the people there actually said grab and go,
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: grab and go, go and we're like really, And then
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: we said, let's just see if she fits on the
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: cobby box in between the front seats, and we put
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: her there and she just curls up and it's like, oh,
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: she's still a puppy, but this fits perfectly. And then
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: I think it was a day later that we said,
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: if she's gonna come, she needs to sleep in the
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: tent with us, let's see if she likes the roof
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: of the tent.
• 21:09
  Speaker 3: And she did the exact same thing.
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: We put her up there, she runs towards the pillows,
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: curls up, falls asleep, and joins us for the night.
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: So next day.
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: She was, oh, wow, so it was meant to be
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: as well?
• 21:27
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, definitely.
• 21:29
  Speaker 4: The Yeah, it stirred things up tremendously travel wise, because
• 21:39
  Speaker 4: we went to Africa, I would say on a whim,
• 21:42
  Speaker 4: like without really doing any research or what did we
• 21:45
  Speaker 4: want to see? But we both have a passion for
• 21:48
  Speaker 4: biology and for nature and wildlife, so you'd expect us
• 21:52
  Speaker 4: to visit the national parks and to do all of that,
• 21:56
  Speaker 4: and then you bring a dog along and they're not
• 21:58
  Speaker 4: allowed in the national parks. So well, I don't think
• 22:03
  Speaker 4: we really grasped, like what effect the dog would have
• 22:06
  Speaker 4: on our travels because West Africa it has some national parks,
• 22:11
  Speaker 4: but we didn't go there because we thought we were
• 22:14
  Speaker 4: going to go to national parks in Southern Africa, which
• 22:17
  Speaker 4: we regrettedly didn't because now I'm like, oh, we should have. Yeah,
• 22:21
  Speaker 4: but she also made our life so much better because
• 22:25
  Speaker 4: in Africa we're less active and just taking on less
• 22:30
  Speaker 4: physical adventure. I would say in Europe we would hike
• 22:33
  Speaker 4: a lot or just mountain bike or via ferrata if
• 22:37
  Speaker 4: I say that correctly in English. And now with Nimba,
• 22:40
  Speaker 4: she actually pulls us out of camp, says okay, I
• 22:43
  Speaker 4: want to go for a walk, and it forces us
• 22:46
  Speaker 4: to explore, which is I think a really good thing.
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it has really impacted the travels some Yeah, sometimes negatively,
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: but overall definitely positively, just having her spice of the day,
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: having her yeah, just around, pulling us everywhere, and like
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: she's always energetic, so she wants to play like all
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: day long.
• 23:09
  Speaker 4: Oh.
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: So I did reach out to the community on Instagram
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: to see what kind of questions they had for you,
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: and at maybe it's welt at and a A I
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: asked was overlinding Africa with the dog a huge challenge
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: due to the heat bureaucracy at border crossings.
• 23:30
  Speaker 3: Et cetera.
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: Maybe just start with the heat. Yeah, so it really depends,
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: so she's really flexible. I would say if we take
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: it slowly, so if it becomes hot, she'll just move
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: up her ridden like she sleeps during the day. She'll
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: start eating during the night if it's cold, or she
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: will eat like all day long, especially Na. Maybe I
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: was challenging because it was near fifty degrees celsius during
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: the day wow, and then the scent would get seventy
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: to eighty degrees, so she couldn't really leave camp. So
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: when we were having lunch, we really have to look
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: for a spot underneath the trees so she could at
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: least walk a little bit. We also made some We
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: have a freezer, which is now super lucky for her
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: because then we were making ice creams with water coconut
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: milk and she loved it. So trying to keep her cool.
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: She has a little fan in her crate because later
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: on in the bond we got a crate for her,
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: so now she has like a fixed place in the car,
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: which is nice for her as well, yeah, we have
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: a fan, so I would say the heat has been
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: quite okay.
• 24:42
  Speaker 3: But she is an African dog.
• 24:44
  Speaker 4: I think we should reiterate that, like if you bring
• 24:47
  Speaker 4: like anski and Labra doodle or a husky or a
• 24:51
  Speaker 4: dog that isn't used to heat, we cannot tell you
• 24:56
  Speaker 4: like how your dog is going to react.
• 24:59
  Speaker 3: She just adapts really well.
• 25:01
  Speaker 4: And yes we'll have to adapt to what Tobia's a
• 25:03
  Speaker 4: saying with like feeding schedules and stuff, but beyond that,
• 25:07
  Speaker 4: it's nothing worrisome or super difficult.
• 25:12
  Speaker 3: No.
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: And then the most difficult thing we talked about, it's
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: just the national parks. Some countries do allow dogs in
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: national parks. We did visit a few national parks in
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: zombiond and Angola.
• 25:24
  Speaker 3: But overall mostly transit, right.
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, mostly or transit or if it's like a relatively
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: unknown national park, they're like, oh, there's tourists, you're welcome,
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: and we're like, yeah, we have a dog, just bring
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: her along in the truck. We're going as a farest
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: and they're all fine. They didn't care at all. They
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: loved it actually, so but in general, if you're in
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: Africa for national parks, it's going to be really difficult, right,
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: But then borders are everybody's biggest worry. Yeah, and that's
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: been like we don't really hide or because the car
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: isn't that big, but we just don't mention anything and
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: then try to smuggle her across the border. But we
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: do have all her paperwork like vaccinations and everything in order.
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: You just don't want to, like, I don't know, give
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: people a reason to start a problem or make a
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: conversation about it. So we just keep her quiet and
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: if they ask, you just hander the or give them
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: the passport. And then it's always been fine, Like all
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: the vaccinations are up to date. They look at the stamps,
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: mostly Arabias, and if they see like an up to
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: date Rabias vaccination, it's like it's okay, you can go.
• 26:39
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and maybe like if you ask us what the
• 26:42
  Speaker 4: legal thing is to do, usually you reach out to
• 26:46
  Speaker 4: like the Ministry of Agriculture, You ask for permission, you
• 26:49
  Speaker 4: go to a vet in the country where you are
• 26:51
  Speaker 4: at that moment, so before crossing the border, and you
• 26:54
  Speaker 4: make sure she gets like a health certificate or something,
• 26:58
  Speaker 4: or a bill of well, a bill of health I
• 27:01
  Speaker 4: would say, stating that she is fit to travel over
• 27:05
  Speaker 4: the border and it's not carrying any diseases.
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: But it's mostly like the bigger borders do have like
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: a veterinary on site. At least when we went from
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: South Africa to Botswana, nobody asked, but there was a
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: veterinarian on side. So if you still need to visit it,
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: like the bigger borders will have that person also there.
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: Just but then you just have to pay some money
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: and then you get the stamp and it's nice.
• 27:28
  Speaker 4: Yeah, so we're not doing things the legal way, but
• 27:33
  Speaker 4: we're also not hiding her, like if they see her, we're.
• 27:37
  Speaker 3: Willing to present the documents.
• 27:40
  Speaker 4: We're just not really in front of the line if
• 27:44
  Speaker 4: they ask us to pay like forty bucks for one
• 27:47
  Speaker 4: document stuff like that.
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: Right, so you have the paperwork on the vaccinations are done.
• 27:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly.
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and of course that's important, but we just it's
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: such a gray area because normal people here in the
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: countries don't really transport like pets, right, they don't transport
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: dogs across the border. They transporting kettle or stuff like that.
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: So it's a bit of a gray area. So we
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: make sure our vaccinations are in order and then just
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: hope for the best.
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I imagine it's very different than say I had
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: a dog and I was going to the US, or
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: I was going to bring my dog to Iceland, or
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: you know. I don't know what the rules are in
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: Europe about the pets and stuff, but I imagine it's
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: very kind of strict and people know the information because
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: it's set out clearly. Yeah, but this is different. It's different,
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: very different. Yeah, talk to me a little bit about
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: what you were doing for work before the trip and
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: what you are doing on the road now, because I
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: know that you are both as applied biologists and conservation
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: is important to you, So tell me a little bit
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: about that.
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: So you want to start. We both studied applied biology,
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: but at different years. We just mismatched in university.
• 29:08
  Speaker 4: Yeah, so it's like a five year study. I a
• 29:10
  Speaker 4: four year study and or five years apart. So the
• 29:13
  Speaker 4: funny thing is just to mention it. I hope people
• 29:16
  Speaker 4: like this to hear it. We actually met before we met,
• 29:21
  Speaker 4: so in the first camping weekend, we realized that there
• 29:26
  Speaker 4: was this event about I went for dieting purposes and
• 29:31
  Speaker 4: you went for Sea Shepherd as a volunteer. Yeah, and
• 29:35
  Speaker 4: I actually talked to someone at the stand of sea
• 29:38
  Speaker 4: Shepherd for a very long time too a guy. I
• 29:41
  Speaker 4: was sure of that, and Tobos was the only guy.
• 29:44
  Speaker 4: So we don't recall actually meeting each other, like physically
• 29:48
  Speaker 4: or like remembering each other's faces, but we actually talked.
• 29:53
  Speaker 4: I think it's like two or three years prior to
• 29:57
  Speaker 4: the first time meeting at the coffee table.
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: Wow, but sorry, yeah, how we got there? You want
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: to start? I start, you say, so. We both studied applbiology,
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: but by the time I graduated, like jobs weren't really
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: at hand. It was quite a difficult market to enter.
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: And I did have like the opportunity to start working
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: at my internship, but I didn't really like that. And
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: I was already working in e commerce, just on the
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: site for a company in my hometown, and I just
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: followed that path e commerce, warehousing systems, marketing, web stores,
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: everything user experienced sales online and then managing a team
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: for that, and it was never really my passion. But
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: the job was fun, the colleagues were nice, and I
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: had a lot of free time, so and you earned
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: a good deal of money and it was well paid,
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: so I was like and every time I got back
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: there as well after each trip. So when I traveled Europe,
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: they're like, when are you coming back? We wind you again,
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: And every now and then I would apply for a
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: job in the biology sector and they would play half
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: the sealery and I was like, yeah, but I just
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: want to be here for a year and then travel again.
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: So then of course you choose what pase for the travels. Yeah,
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: and it wasn't bad, it was quite fun. So I
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: just kept doing that until we left and now I
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: was like, I'm going to stop and I'm not coming
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: back anymore, so let's see.
• 31:38
  Speaker 4: And then on my side, by the time I was
• 31:41
  Speaker 4: doing the same studies, they had a different setup actually,
• 31:46
  Speaker 4: So I graduated not in anything biology or ecology related,
• 31:50
  Speaker 4: but in entrepreneurship, and that let me down an alley
• 31:54
  Speaker 4: of tiny houses agricultural property, like re inventing basically how
• 32:01
  Speaker 4: they're going to go into the future. That was very
• 32:04
  Speaker 4: difficult legally speaking, and also not one of my interests.
• 32:08
  Speaker 4: So I went into writing. And then actually after a
• 32:12
  Speaker 4: couple of years, I came back to my studies knowing
• 32:16
  Speaker 4: that I really liked conservation. So as an applied biologist,
• 32:19
  Speaker 4: you're really focusing towards the research part of nature and biology,
• 32:24
  Speaker 4: and that wasn't something I was interested in, but I
• 32:27
  Speaker 4: did really like the field of conservation trying to protect
• 32:29
  Speaker 4: nature and well protect biodiversity in general. And with my
• 32:35
  Speaker 4: background of writing and photography just as passions, so not
• 32:39
  Speaker 4: really a professional anything, but having a passion for it,
• 32:43
  Speaker 4: I decided to launch or found Ubuntu Magazine, which is
• 32:48
  Speaker 4: a nature conservation magazine including stories of others, so people
• 32:53
  Speaker 4: who are in the field working on nature conservation. And basically,
• 32:58
  Speaker 4: by the time we started travels, Ubuntu was the only
• 33:02
  Speaker 4: thing that I kept. So I stopped writing, I stopped
• 33:06
  Speaker 4: the tiny house everything, and I said to Toby, as
• 33:09
  Speaker 4: I'm willing to join, but I'm not going to quit
• 33:12
  Speaker 4: this project that I just started because I started in
• 33:14
  Speaker 4: October and we left in July, and you had Raffiki
• 33:18
  Speaker 4: on tour as a social media thing, if I can
• 33:23
  Speaker 4: say it like that.
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: Just sharing the travels and the website, sharing reviews as
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: well and information and maybe linking back to that Shepherd
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: part of when we met. Besides all doing all the
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: e commerce, I wasn't active volunteer for that nature conservation organization,
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: so when you wanted to keep Ubuntu going during the travels,
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: but that's actually really valuable and fun. Yeah, and it's
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: it was so close to your heart as well that
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: we just said let's just keep that going. The best weekend.
• 33:55
  Speaker 4: Beyond that, you were kind of anti work. You're like,
• 34:00
  Speaker 4: we're not gonna work on this trip, like we're gonna
• 34:03
  Speaker 4: enjoy the travel because we only have a year.
• 34:05
  Speaker 3: And now I can see why.
• 34:07
  Speaker 4: I mean, it's a very different trip that we're having
• 34:10
  Speaker 4: our expedition or well travels from people.
• 34:13
  Speaker 3: Who don't work on the road.
• 34:15
  Speaker 4: But I'm happy you came over the bridge and well,
• 34:19
  Speaker 4: I mean in the first week, I actually was sharing
• 34:23
  Speaker 4: my thoughts on Rafiki and how he could build it.
• 34:26
  Speaker 4: So we were not together as a couple yet, and
• 34:29
  Speaker 4: Toby also was like, yeah, in a year's time, we'll
• 34:32
  Speaker 4: have to go back to work. And I was like, well,
• 34:35
  Speaker 4: why don't you build rafiki while on the road and
• 34:38
  Speaker 4: make sure it's up and running by the time I leave.
• 34:42
  Speaker 4: And then I was helping out with just sharing thoughts,
• 34:45
  Speaker 4: and you were helping Ubuntu with the website, sharing his
• 34:48
  Speaker 4: thoughts and knowledge.
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, cause it's kind of like she writes, I write,
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: so we can help each other with writing and just
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: discussing topics and perspectives and you built websites just on
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: the side a little bit, but I did it a lot.
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: So but then you have like the vision for concepts
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: and thinking ahead. So when we merged everything, it was
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: just oh, this could actually work for Rafiki on tour
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: and you go into magazine and we just continued that
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: for the past two and half years.
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: Amazing. Yeah, do you have any favorite stories from the
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: magazine that really have are close to your heart or
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: are really memorable?
• 35:33
  Speaker 3: Oh, that's so difficult, Like.
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: It might be good to know that the magazine features
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: like organizations and persons globally, and we did visit a
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: few persons or organizations in Africa as well, So I
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: don't know, do you want to split that up?
• 35:50
  Speaker 4: Well, I think visiting the first one in Africa was
• 35:53
  Speaker 4: in Senegal with a local man who has been working
• 35:57
  Speaker 4: with turtles and tortoises all this life. So that was
• 36:01
  Speaker 4: very special because I finally got to step into someone's
• 36:04
  Speaker 4: world instead of just well doing it through a screen.
• 36:10
  Speaker 4: We actually when we were in Zambia months ago, we
• 36:13
  Speaker 4: met some really cool people. There's this town filled with
• 36:16
  Speaker 4: people who work in conservation, so the vibe, the moment
• 36:21
  Speaker 4: we drove into town, you were like, wow.
• 36:23
  Speaker 3: What is this place?
• 36:25
  Speaker 4: And it looked African and it felt African still, But yeah,
• 36:31
  Speaker 4: I don't know, feeling wise, like got feeling wise. It
• 36:33
  Speaker 4: felt really good, and we met really cool people, like
• 36:35
  Speaker 4: a bush pilot, someone who's working in law enforcement whose
• 36:40
  Speaker 4: dad actually was a poacher.
• 36:43
  Speaker 3: So that's a special story.
• 36:45
  Speaker 4: So I guess it's very difficult to.
• 36:49
  Speaker 3: Say one that I really well.
• 36:53
  Speaker 4: It feels like yesterday we were in Guinea Bissau and
• 36:57
  Speaker 4: I was actually calling with a really important guy from
• 37:01
  Speaker 4: C Shepherd and I never thought I would be talking
• 37:04
  Speaker 4: to people this high up in the chain or with
• 37:07
  Speaker 4: such big organizations, and he was so kind and we're
• 37:11
  Speaker 4: actually still in touch on whats happen. He sends me
• 37:14
  Speaker 4: pictures of his firstborn and I was like, I don't
• 37:17
  Speaker 4: know how he got to this stage because we only
• 37:20
  Speaker 4: talked for one and a half hours, But being able
• 37:23
  Speaker 4: to build that connection with people feels really really special.
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: So yeah, and talking about that Bush pilot, I think
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: that that was really powerful as well, because he was
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: a pilot for tourism at first.
• 37:35
  Speaker 3: Yeah, commercial flying.
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: Commercial flying, Yeah, And he was like, I don't really
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: see the purpose in it it's just transporting high paying
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: tourists from A to B and it's not really adding
• 37:49
  Speaker 2: anything like to the world. It's just transporting tourists from
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: loutch A to lodge B. And he actually decided to
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: stop flying, and then ian is Life wanted to move
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: to Zambia, so.
• 38:02
  Speaker 3: They lived in Tanhania first.
• 38:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and then they wanted to do something of conservation.
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: And he never thought that like being a bush pilot
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: or a pilot could contribute to conservation, and that was
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: his way in into the world of conservation in Zambia.
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: So I think just making that huge switch, but with
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: the experience he had that was I think that's pretty cool.
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: So yeah, oh, awesome story. Yeah, I'm curious your thought
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: there's Oh, go ahead.
• 38:32
  Speaker 4: No, I was going to there's so many stories, like
• 38:34
  Speaker 4: it's very difficult to choose just one. And I'm not
• 38:37
  Speaker 4: doing everything by myself. So we have a team of
• 38:39
  Speaker 4: roughly fifteen to twenty on and off a bit of
• 38:44
  Speaker 4: people who work on the articles. So unfortunately I only
• 38:49
  Speaker 4: get to read some of the stories and not doing
• 38:51
  Speaker 4: the interviews myself, so they feel a little bit further
• 38:54
  Speaker 4: away from me personally, but all of them are so yeah,
• 38:58
  Speaker 4: so wonderful to share.
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: I love that. I'm curious what your thoughts are on
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: combining overlanding with conservation. Is that possible? Do you feel
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: like there's a there's a way.
• 39:14
  Speaker 3: To do that.
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: Have you looked into that? I mean, I essentially you
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: are I guess if you're you know you're visiting sites
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: to write articles about conservation efforts. But yeah, I'm just curious.
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: We for ourselves, we have been like dreaming up a
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: plan for like the coming years to say, Okay, what
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: happens if we rebuild Rafiki, make it really like an
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: off gride office, and then combine like super remote travel
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: with visiting the projects for Ubuntu magazine, and then not
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: only visiting like one here and then one in a
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: few months from now, but actually trying to get to
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: the most remote conservation organization, like visit the most remote
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: ones in each country.
• 40:00
  Speaker 4: And also spending time there. Yeah, like right now, it's
• 40:03
  Speaker 4: one meeting of maybe a couple of hours. I'd really
• 40:06
  Speaker 4: love to immerse myself in someone's work, but that isn't
• 40:11
  Speaker 4: always possible. One with the dog because a lot of
• 40:13
  Speaker 4: conservation happens in national parks in Africa, and two just
• 40:17
  Speaker 4: with planning, Like we cannot say we're going to be
• 40:21
  Speaker 4: at your place in two months time from now because
• 40:24
  Speaker 4: we don't plan that far ahead. So it's very difficult
• 40:27
  Speaker 4: to ask for someone to be present for multiple days
• 40:30
  Speaker 4: and well, gif they're time to me, I would say,
• 40:33
  Speaker 4: but yeah, we have plans, definitely.
• 40:35
  Speaker 2: I've been thinking about it, like can we just make
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: it livable and workable for the coming years and just
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: really integrate that, i don't know, creating awareness for these
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: projects and really combine that with the remote travel that
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: we like. And then also we notice that a lot
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: of organizations, like the smaller ones that we like to feature,
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: don't have high quality photos. So we even said, like,
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: if we go there, we can just join them for
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: a week and take photos of their work. So that
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: would be something we would like to do in the future.
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: Very good, Very good. I love this using the vehicle
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: as a tool for sure. Yeah.
• 41:17
  Speaker 4: Yeah, And I think in general, like because we have
• 41:20
  Speaker 4: this perspective of being nature lovers and conservationists at heart,
• 41:26
  Speaker 4: we are able to share with others, like why would
• 41:30
  Speaker 4: you buy plastic bottles? Which happens a lot if I'm
• 41:34
  Speaker 4: honest with people traveling in Africa, people go to the
• 41:38
  Speaker 4: supermarket by like five liter or twenty little bottles time
• 41:42
  Speaker 4: and time again, whereas if you buy a proper filter
• 41:46
  Speaker 4: or a purification system, you don't need to. And seeing
• 41:51
  Speaker 4: all these huge dump places or whatever in Africa, it's
• 41:57
  Speaker 4: so saddening, Like even the most remote place, says are
• 42:00
  Speaker 4: just there's like plastic confetti on the road everywhere because
• 42:06
  Speaker 4: people receive it but just cannot take care of it
• 42:10
  Speaker 4: or recycle it in any way because they are two
• 42:12
  Speaker 4: remote and no one takes care of it. So being
• 42:16
  Speaker 4: able to raise awareness with other mostly with other overlanders
• 42:20
  Speaker 4: right now feels very important to us as well.
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, do you guys have a filtration system that you
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: really like?
• 42:28
  Speaker 2: I figured we've been using the Yeah, we've been using
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: the Life Save a jerry can for the past five years,
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: I think, and it's been so valuable. Like just having
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: a jerry can that you can transport to a water
• 42:43
  Speaker 2: source and that it takes out like viruses and heavy
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: metals has been amazing. And what we now do is
• 42:49
  Speaker 2: like we fill it, then pump it, and then fill
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: another jerry can with it, so we have one jerry
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: can of drinkable water and then fill the other one again,
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: so we have more that way nice.
• 43:02
  Speaker 4: It's a little bit easier because you have to pressurize
• 43:05
  Speaker 4: the system of the lifesaver to get the flow of water.
• 43:09
  Speaker 4: We don't want to leave it pressurized during the ride
• 43:12
  Speaker 4: because well, something pressurized can also break more.
• 43:15
  Speaker 3: Easily or yeah, well yeah, I.
• 43:18
  Speaker 4: Would say it's not the ideal situation. And being able
• 43:21
  Speaker 4: to just have a tap behind our car so it's
• 43:23
  Speaker 4: on the back of Raffiki, yeah, just simplifies the whole process.
• 43:28
  Speaker 2: I do think in the future that we want water
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: tanks and a build in system because it's just easier.
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: At least it's more livable, more comfortable when you're living
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: around the vehicle. But the versatility of the jerry again,
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: I think we will always bring it along, even if
• 43:46
  Speaker 2: it's just going to be a backup totally.
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, redundancy is I can't stress bad enough backups.
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah. How is Rafiki doing on the road?
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: Don't ask no such wood. We've had little trouble so far,
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: Like it's been doing a half years on rough roads
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: and we've had barely any big trouble. But it's always
• 44:21
  Speaker 2: a lot of small stuffy because the corrugation and the potholes.
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: Everything just vibrates, everything redles, everything gets loose, and yeah,
• 44:31
  Speaker 2: so it's constantly checking everything.
• 44:35
  Speaker 4: Basically, I mean we've driven seventy thousand kilometers as of yesterday.
• 44:43
  Speaker 4: I think, yeah, since we left home, mostly in Africa
• 44:46
  Speaker 4: on very bad roads, so it's logical that things are
• 44:49
  Speaker 4: going to break down. But also sometimes like a month ago,
• 44:52
  Speaker 4: we got stuck very very badly and we were just
• 44:56
  Speaker 4: well surprised by heavy downpour and which to save another
• 45:00
  Speaker 4: car who had been stuck for four days, we drove
• 45:05
  Speaker 4: through the swamps and got stuck ourselves and our left
• 45:10
  Speaker 4: rear tire just was submerged in water. So yes, of course,
• 45:14
  Speaker 4: in such situations, I think we were stuck for four
• 45:17
  Speaker 4: hours or something. Water is going to get into the
• 45:19
  Speaker 4: wheel bearing and I mean that's problem upon problem.
• 45:25
  Speaker 3: Which you cannot really escape.
• 45:27
  Speaker 4: Luckily, we know that that was going to be the case,
• 45:30
  Speaker 4: so we checked it as soon as we could.
• 45:31
  Speaker 3: And yeah, now it's okay.
• 45:34
  Speaker 4: But I mean it does take you a couple of
• 45:36
  Speaker 4: hours to fix that or check something. But Rafiki, I
• 45:39
  Speaker 4: mean it's a The funny thing is, up until now,
• 45:43
  Speaker 4: people in Africa have been saying like Toyota is much better,
• 45:47
  Speaker 4: and it's always a fight Toyota versus land Rover.
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: I think we love your Toyota by so we're not
• 45:54
  Speaker 2: fighting here.
• 45:55
  Speaker 4: No.
• 45:56
  Speaker 3: Was in Zambia. Oh, in Zambia people are actually saying, oh,
• 46:01
  Speaker 3: you've got a land Rover, really strong car, that's what
• 46:04
  Speaker 3: you need right here.
• 46:05
  Speaker 4: So I don't know when or how or why the
• 46:09
  Speaker 4: coin flipped.
• 46:10
  Speaker 2: That there has been a switch in mentality.
• 46:11
  Speaker 4: Are in Zambia people like the land Rover more than
• 46:15
  Speaker 4: they like Toyota. So well, I didn't want to prove
• 46:20
  Speaker 4: a point with this, but I mean it's a strong
• 46:22
  Speaker 4: car and even though it's driven seventy thousand kilometers on
• 46:25
  Speaker 4: bad roads, it's holding up quite well.
• 46:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, this tripper in all honesty, So it's creeping up
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: to five hundred thousand kilometers people, So we are hoping
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: like to one day give it a proper maintenance job,
• 46:41
  Speaker 2: just replace bushes, replace bearings, just to make everything a
• 46:47
  Speaker 2: bit more stable again, like all our hinges, like the
• 46:49
  Speaker 2: doors just rattle from left to right. Everything squeaks and creaks,
• 46:54
  Speaker 2: like we really need to put in some time there.
• 46:57
  Speaker 4: It's going to need an after Africa polish.
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, I remember when we got back from the
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: PanAm travels and our seats in the pickup were disgusting
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: and they had been put in I think Richard replaced them.
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: They were used, but they were in great shape at
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: the beginning of the trip, and they were like that
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: carpet material and by the end it's like all the
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: sweat from our bodies that you know in Columbia that
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: had just absorbed into the fabric. We're like, yeah, nobody
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: needs these seats anymore. There's like coffee and probably in snacks,
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: ground and of like sometimes it just needs a refresh
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: and there's like nothing you can do because it's just
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: been worked so hard for so long.
• 47:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I've once had a common like you don't smell
• 47:44
  Speaker 2: your own smell a vehicle. You don't really smell your vehicle.
• 47:48
  Speaker 2: I once said a woman come up and she's like,
• 47:50
  Speaker 2: I love your vehicle. Can I look inside? And we
• 47:52
  Speaker 2: opened the door. She's like, ohh nice. Oh it also
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: smells like you live in a right, I'm not sure
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: if that's supposed there.
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: Oh that's funny.
• 48:05
  Speaker 3: Oh man, that's a terrible comment.
• 48:09
  Speaker 2: But yeah, your laundry back and everything is in the garden.
• 48:13
  Speaker 2: After a while.
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so I have a few more questions for you
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: from some Instagram peeps. At ash Underscore the Wild said,
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: how much does it cost to pay off officials for
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: border crossings or police checks? Ooh, this is a spicy one. Yeah.
• 48:31
  Speaker 2: Zero, So you haven't had to pay any bribes yet.
• 48:37
  Speaker 2: Of course people have tried a lot. Okay, we have
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: to bring in there.
• 48:44
  Speaker 4: We'll have to start from the beginning. The moment you
• 48:47
  Speaker 4: come into Morocco, they're going to try and people are
• 48:52
  Speaker 4: often very scared of corruption and everything, but you've got
• 48:57
  Speaker 4: to realize that these are just people and they're working
• 49:00
  Speaker 4: in hot conditions. They're meeting mostly white or Western people
• 49:06
  Speaker 4: who are able to cross the border, which means they
• 49:08
  Speaker 4: can buy a visa, which means they have at least
• 49:10
  Speaker 4: some money. So they see an opportunity and they will
• 49:15
  Speaker 4: just ask you kindly, so what do you have for
• 49:19
  Speaker 4: me today?
• 49:20
  Speaker 3: Is it a soda? Is it some money? Do you
• 49:22
  Speaker 3: have something to eat for me?
• 49:24
  Speaker 4: And what we said from the beginning on is we're
• 49:28
  Speaker 4: not gonna give into it because the moment we do it,
• 49:31
  Speaker 4: he's gonna know or she's gonna know.
• 49:34
  Speaker 3: Ah it works, I.
• 49:36
  Speaker 4: Can try it with the next person too, so you're
• 49:41
  Speaker 4: not just saying yes to it yourself, you're making it
• 49:44
  Speaker 4: more difficult for someone else as well. So we always
• 49:47
  Speaker 4: reply with I brought my big smile for you today,
• 49:52
  Speaker 4: and you just smile and you sit and you wait
• 49:53
  Speaker 4: until they reply and they're like, ah, well, and sometimes
• 49:57
  Speaker 4: they find it very funny. They laugh and they're like okay,
• 50:00
  Speaker 4: so that's good, but you can continue. And sometimes they're like,
• 50:04
  Speaker 4: well that's a strange answer it like I would have
• 50:08
  Speaker 4: wanted something.
• 50:11
  Speaker 2: It's just about knowing that you're right and that you
• 50:15
  Speaker 2: have the time like they have the time too. You
• 50:18
  Speaker 2: can just wait it out, smile away, just keep chatting.
• 50:22
  Speaker 2: And actually today and yesterday they were making up like
• 50:26
  Speaker 2: things like you're speeding or you were overtaking and we weren't,
• 50:30
  Speaker 2: and we just chatted to them and then we're like, look,
• 50:34
  Speaker 2: we're rafiki on tour and rafiki means friend. You're in Tanzania,
• 50:40
  Speaker 2: so we're like friends on tour. And then we just
• 50:43
  Speaker 2: like look at our sticker. Oh, you can have the sticker, okay,
• 50:47
  Speaker 2: And then it was all okay. And so it's just
• 50:50
  Speaker 2: about being nice, staying polite, but also kind of staying
• 50:54
  Speaker 2: holding your ground, like not giving in right away because yeah,
• 50:58
  Speaker 2: but so far.
• 50:59
  Speaker 3: So good.
• 51:01
  Speaker 4: Yeah, And we have evolved our strategy over time, so
• 51:05
  Speaker 4: you can read a person like you can read if
• 51:07
  Speaker 4: someone's really angry or really forceful using his or her position,
• 51:12
  Speaker 4: being a policeman or a military employee, showcasing his or
• 51:17
  Speaker 4: her position, and then you know you have the threat carefully.
• 51:21
  Speaker 4: So in some cases when we we have been so
• 51:27
  Speaker 4: naive in some circumstances, like in Morocco Mauritani at the border,
• 51:33
  Speaker 4: there were a lot of fixers, which are people whom
• 51:35
  Speaker 4: you give some money to do your paperwork for you,
• 51:39
  Speaker 4: and they always go first into the office of the official.
• 51:43
  Speaker 4: And we were so fed up because we were waiting
• 51:46
  Speaker 4: for hours and no one was going to let us
• 51:48
  Speaker 4: into the office because all the fixers were going first,
• 51:51
  Speaker 4: and it was such a busy and hot day, and
• 51:53
  Speaker 4: we just decided to stand inside the doorway. We're like,
• 51:56
  Speaker 4: no one's going to come in here until we've been in.
• 52:01
  Speaker 3: And then a.
• 52:01
  Speaker 4: Guy approached and I think he was maybe like mid thirties,
• 52:06
  Speaker 4: and he's like, I want to go in. We're like, well, no, you're.
• 52:10
  Speaker 2: Not like wearing sports clothing. Yeah, we're sports living, I'm
• 52:14
  Speaker 2: seriously at all. And then the fixers were like, yeah,
• 52:19
  Speaker 2: but he's the bass. I'm like, yeah, but you just
• 52:21
  Speaker 2: said you're the bass. Turns out he was the main
• 52:24
  Speaker 2: boss of immigration oh no, and it was his office
• 52:29
  Speaker 2: and we were kind of looking him from so.
• 52:32
  Speaker 4: I think we've made some really dumb mistakes that luckily
• 52:37
  Speaker 4: didn't resolve in anything worse. In Senegal, we played good
• 52:40
  Speaker 4: Cub Bat Coup, so we had a very gnardly situation
• 52:44
  Speaker 4: an officer who had like very vague hand signals he
• 52:47
  Speaker 4: wanted us to stop. We continued our drive because we
• 52:51
  Speaker 4: knew there might be corrupt police in that area, and
• 52:54
  Speaker 4: we of course didn't want to pay. And then they
• 52:56
  Speaker 4: actually followed us in just a random on a rend scooter.
• 53:00
  Speaker 4: He just ordered a scooter just to follow us, took
• 53:03
  Speaker 4: our papers, drove back, and then we played good called
• 53:06
  Speaker 4: Bat Cup for like half an hour. So we have
• 53:10
  Speaker 4: these strategies, like yesterday we were given some kind of
• 53:14
  Speaker 4: penalty for something I don't recall doing, and I just
• 53:18
  Speaker 4: played very innocently. I was like, okay, but we don't
• 53:22
  Speaker 4: want to cause you any trouble. And then Tobia started
• 53:25
  Speaker 4: talking about the trip in Africa, and they're nice people.
• 53:30
  Speaker 4: I mean, they're all just people. So they want to talk,
• 53:32
  Speaker 4: they want to have a good day. They don't want
• 53:34
  Speaker 4: to stand in the heat all day.
• 53:36
  Speaker 3: So how do we deal with it?
• 53:37
  Speaker 4: We have different strategies, but most of all, just stay
• 53:41
  Speaker 4: in kind, smile and wave and we have the time.
• 53:45
  Speaker 3: Sorry for the long answer.
• 53:46
  Speaker 1: Oh no, that's great, yeah a bit.
• 53:48
  Speaker 3: How we roll over? Yeah, yeah, and.
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: It's all about that you have time. Those are great
• 53:52
  Speaker 1: strategies for sure. Yeah. And it's so funny because it
• 53:58
  Speaker 1: depends so much on where you're at, like have you
• 54:01
  Speaker 1: had a snack, how are you feeling, are you tired?
• 54:04
  Speaker 1: Is it hot? What's the situation? And it's almost like
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: every single circumstance that you have to just take it
• 54:12
  Speaker 1: at face value because it's not necessarily going to be
• 54:14
  Speaker 1: like the last one. And like you said, you're learning
• 54:17
  Speaker 1: along the way, and so you may be reacting differently
• 54:20
  Speaker 1: to a situation in the future than now. Just all yeah,
• 54:23
  Speaker 1: you're just constantly feeling it out right. It feels like
• 54:26
  Speaker 1: that traveling you're also scanning the environment and seeing what's up.
• 54:30
  Speaker 1: So yeah, interesting stuff. How often do these things happen?
• 54:33
  Speaker 1: I guess It is another question that I have like.
• 54:38
  Speaker 2: Multiple yeah, and I would say it really depends on
• 54:40
  Speaker 2: the country. Like West Africa had a few countries where
• 54:45
  Speaker 2: police was really corrupt, and then especially Senegal and Gumbia
• 54:49
  Speaker 2: and Cameroon and Cameroon as well, but mostly all other
• 54:55
  Speaker 2: countries in general have been fine, like barely any corruption. Okay,
• 55:01
  Speaker 2: they will ask for like a coke or anything, Yeah,
• 55:03
  Speaker 2: but just stopping you like paperwork, blah blah blah, what
• 55:06
  Speaker 2: did you bring for me? And then it's always the
• 55:09
  Speaker 2: smile answer. You get that like every week. But that's
• 55:13
  Speaker 2: not really corruptions. That's just them asking us forever for
• 55:17
  Speaker 2: something but not really not like they've already given us
• 55:21
  Speaker 2: our bossports back, like they don't hold control over us,
• 55:25
  Speaker 2: so they're fine to ask, like we can always say no,
• 55:28
  Speaker 2: and we do say no. But the real corruption, like
• 55:32
  Speaker 2: it's a handful or maybe maybe it happened ten times
• 55:36
  Speaker 2: in the span of two and off years. Yeah, so
• 55:40
  Speaker 2: don't worry too much about it.
• 55:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I have one more question from the interwebs. Let's see,
• 55:48
  Speaker 1: Chris co I think I have your name right, what
• 55:51
  Speaker 1: dividor what device holders do you use? So for like
• 55:56
  Speaker 1: if you're traveling with a tablet or your iPhones, what.
• 55:59
  Speaker 3: Do you use?
• 56:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so a land roper has a tiny, tiny, tiny
• 56:06
  Speaker 2: front window. Yeah, so you're not gonna put anything on
• 56:09
  Speaker 2: there with a section cup because it's just going to
• 56:11
  Speaker 2: be in the way. Yeah, So we really have and
• 56:15
  Speaker 2: like the dashboard itself doesn't have any space to mount
• 56:18
  Speaker 2: it for anything, basically, so we use our phone and
• 56:23
  Speaker 2: our garment Overlander navigation. The phone is in the cheapest
• 56:28
  Speaker 2: holder we bought homewhere on Amazon, which is just glued
• 56:32
  Speaker 2: on top of the dashboard. Works perfectly, it turns so
• 56:36
  Speaker 2: we can watch a movie or whatever.
• 56:39
  Speaker 3: Not well driving.
• 56:41
  Speaker 4: For example, if it's raining or we're waiting or something
• 56:46
  Speaker 4: like that, or maybe with a call with friends and
• 56:48
  Speaker 4: you don't want to be in the rooftop ten for example.
• 56:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and then the Overlander has a ram mound which
• 56:54
  Speaker 2: is screwed onto the dashboard just permanently fixed their holds
• 56:59
  Speaker 2: it really well. We don't have a tablet or anything.
• 57:01
  Speaker 2: It's just these two simple devices. That's it. Love it
• 57:06
  Speaker 2: maybe pro tip for in the rooftand our table actually
• 57:10
  Speaker 2: came with a little net to put like magazines in
• 57:13
  Speaker 2: and stuff. We actually mounted it up to the ROOFTND
• 57:16
  Speaker 2: like to the ceiling of the roof then, and we
• 57:18
  Speaker 2: can store our laptop in there, so in the evenings
• 57:21
  Speaker 2: we actually watch a movie just laying flat on our
• 57:24
  Speaker 2: pillows with the laptop at the ceiling of the rooftn
• 57:28
  Speaker 2: just stuck in that net like a little cinema.
• 57:31
  Speaker 1: Mac for maximum viewing experience.
• 57:34
  Speaker 3: I love that.
• 57:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, good, yeah, so nothing nothing fancy.
• 57:39
  Speaker 1: Great, thank you. Thanks for the answer that that was
• 57:42
  Speaker 1: from at chrisb dot co.
• 57:47
  Speaker 3: That question.
• 57:48
  Speaker 1: So thank you for people.
• 57:49
  Speaker 3: I've never heard those names before, so maybe we've talked
• 57:53
  Speaker 3: to them.
• 57:54
  Speaker 1: But excellent. Yeah, yeah, great stuff. So I wanted to
• 57:59
  Speaker 1: ask you guys, is what is your favorite book?
• 58:06
  Speaker 3: I knew this question, yeah, the book question.
• 58:12
  Speaker 4: You should have thought about this, but we've been caught
• 58:16
  Speaker 4: up in a hectic life. I read a lot, and
• 58:21
  Speaker 4: I think I I well, depending on how quickly we travel,
• 58:26
  Speaker 4: I read about one book every week or every two weeks.
• 58:30
  Speaker 4: But because I'm passionate about various things, maybe too many,
• 58:35
  Speaker 4: I also read a large variety of books. One that
• 58:41
  Speaker 4: I really like, when I should have written down the
• 58:44
  Speaker 4: name is one of David Ettenborough's books. It's about how
• 58:48
  Speaker 4: he started in the world of what he does. So
• 58:52
  Speaker 4: he would go onto trips and catch animals to put
• 58:57
  Speaker 4: in zeus in Europe or in the UK or whatsoever.
• 59:02
  Speaker 3: And it's such a wild life that he was living.
• 59:05
  Speaker 4: And actually from that life he evolved into becoming a
• 59:08
  Speaker 4: TV host and narrator and everything. So what I find
• 59:12
  Speaker 4: fascinating is that he just goes into the Amazon, for example,
• 59:15
  Speaker 4: with very limited supplies and imagining what we have as
• 59:20
  Speaker 4: overlanders and imagining what he had at the time. It's
• 59:24
  Speaker 4: very difficult to compare, and he would just find species
• 59:28
  Speaker 4: that he had never seen before, never even could fathom existed,
• 59:32
  Speaker 4: and then had to catch them, not just see them,
• 59:36
  Speaker 4: but had to catch them and bring them home. So well,
• 59:40
  Speaker 4: I mean seeing where David at Mureau is right now.
• 59:45
  Speaker 4: He I think is a huge idol for a lot
• 59:47
  Speaker 4: of people in this world. But he started in such
• 59:50
  Speaker 4: a different career and maybe even a world that we
• 59:55
  Speaker 4: cannot even comprehend anymore. Yeah, with everything that's so globalized
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 4: and instagrammable and everything, I think it's just fascinating to
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 4: read it out. So that would be my book more Yeah,
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 4: nature focused.
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 3: And I'm going to keep it at that great one.
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 3: There's many more.
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so I'm not really a reader. I love books
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 2: like back home, I have books as full of books,
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 2: like hundreds of Yeah, I do, but I don't like
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 2: reading at all. I would say not really but so,
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 2: but the only books I really enjoyed are from Gray
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 2: and Bell From A to Al and I just love
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 2: his writing style, the ease of reading it, and then
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 2: he really takes you along in their travels with their family.
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 2: And of course there's been some overlap because I wanted
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 2: to go to South America. He has books about South America.
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 2: He's been to Europe, he's been to Africa, so it's
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 2: also very relatable. So I have all books and that's
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 2: also the only books I've basically read.
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 1: That's awesome. Shout out to Graham. I love that.
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 2: Definitely good stuff. Yeah, and then we now these days
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 2: we also listen to a lot of different podcasts when driving,
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 2: so also that's a bit of our relaxation, just when
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 2: on the road.
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 1: Do you have some favorite podcasts?
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 4: Well, I should look on my phone actually to to
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 4: give you the full list. Talking about overlanding, which is
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 4: something that we like because it's like, on the one hand,
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 4: we can dive deep into a subject while listening to
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 4: a podcast. On the other hand, it's very light and
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 4: airy because we're already involved in the subject, like we're
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 4: not learning something about like quantum physics or something which
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 4: would be too difficult to listen to and to learn
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 4: while driving. Overland podcasts and overland journal podcasts are both
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 4: high on the list.
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 2: Conservation wise, we loved listening to Guardians of the River,
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 2: which revolves around the area of the Okavango Delta and
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 2: more like the source of the Okavango in Angola, where
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 2: the water comes from.
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 4: It's a very sophisticated podcast. It's like not just people talking,
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 4: but there's like field interviews involved, like a lot of
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 4: sound effects. I would say it's very well thought of,
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 4: well thought through.
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 3: Sorry.
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 2: And then we have a few adventure podcasts, but I
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 2: don't really know their names because you always put them
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 2: on on the radio.
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 4: Yeah, so further farther podcast and I wouldn't know the
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 4: names because they usually just download the people that we
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 4: find interesting. So for example, raisa acro I did it's
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 4: actually because of that podcast that we started looking him
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 4: up and listened to more of him. Then Pip Stewart
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 4: is a woman who's done some Epic Adventuring Meghan hine
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 4: Eva Zubek, who we follow on YouTube but have also
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 4: listened to some podcasts.
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 1: I think Scott Brady interviewed Zeebec as well for this podcast,
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 1: so yeah.
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 3: Oh did we listen to that. Oh it's a while ago, maybe, Yeah.
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 4: So yeah, some some adventurers also because it kind of
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 4: opens up a whole new world, Like we love overlanding,
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 4: but we're also dreaming of a life I would say
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 4: different to this, so we're worth talking about, like sailing.
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 3: Around the world.
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 4: I would really like to do, like a human power
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 4: something like kenyueing or kayaking or hiking or.
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 3: Something like that.
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 4: And being able to listen to people who have really
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 4: done some cool things kind of fires up your imagination like, wow,
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 4: so much is actually possible. Yeah, so that's been a
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 4: really good, good way to immerse ourselves in new things.
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 1: Those are great recommendations. And I love all the offshoots
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 1: from overlanding. You know, you're gaining the skills, all the
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 1: skills associated with it, and that gives you the confidence
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 1: to be able to undertake something that's a little bit
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 1: different and look at things in a different way. So yeah, and.
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 3: Oh, it's great.
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 4: I was going to say, like overlanding, I got into
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 4: it without any prior knowledge of what it was going
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 4: to entail, and because it's such a day by day process,
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 4: you don't really realize that you're having this really steep
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 4: learning curve and you're evolving. Looking back at the twenty
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 4: twenty two me, I'm such a different person like I
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 4: thought I was. Really, I thought really highly of myself
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 4: in t twenty two before we did this trip, and
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 4: then you become humbled by just traveling in Africa and everything,
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 4: and from there on you start growing again, but in
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 4: a different way. You're much more like open minded and
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 4: receptive to the world, I would say, instead of always
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 4: just thinking about yourself and thinking in a really small bubble. Yeah,
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 4: now I feel ready to take on more adventurous things
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 4: like that I wouldn't have thought of before. So you're
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 4: correct in that.
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a gay Yeah, the gateway. Once you start,
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 1: you can't stop. But yeah, thank you for sharing that.
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 1: That's amazing. So the sun has set where you are,
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 1: but it's now light where I am, So we've come
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 1: full full circle here. But yeah, I wanted.
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 2: It's actually gotten dark and I can already heard eye
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 2: us further in the valley.
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 1: Wow, I can hear. We were hoping a few bugs
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 1: over there.
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 2: We were hoping yea. At the moment, we're traveling with
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 2: friends from the Netherlands and we were hoping that they
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 2: would get some sort of wildlife experience. So if there's
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 2: a yenas around, now that's a good thing.
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 1: Yes, I better let you both so you can prepare
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 1: for that. But please let us know where we can
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 1: find you on the internet.
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so it's Instagram and Facebook as rafie on tour.
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 2: Also in YouTube, but we haven't done anything there for ages.
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 2: Who knows in the future, but it's just not been
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 2: like that.
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 3: We've been dabbling with the ideas though.
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 2: We also have Patreon as trafice on tour and then
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 2: on the website rafic on tour dot com is like
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 2: travel updates, gear reviews, just general blogs about how we
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 2: live in and around the vehicle.
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 4: And you guys have a podcast as well, all right, Yeah,
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 4: it's the Roofed Up Recordings. We have just finished season
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 4: one and people can find it on Patreon as well. Excellent,
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 4: So basically on Patreon and then on Spotify via Patreon.
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 3: The platform great.
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 1: I will include a link to the magazine as well.
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 3: Yeah, please do Yeah.
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 1: That would be that would be great. So yeah, thank
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 1: you so much for taking the time to chat with
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 1: me today. I had a lovely time with you. You're welcome.
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you.
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 1: And thank you so much to all the listeners for
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 1: tuning into this episode. We always appreciate it and we
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 1: will catch you next time.
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 3: Bye. Thank you.