Latest / Crosswalk Talk: Celebrity Christian Interviews / The More Science Knows, the More It Points to God

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The More Science Knows, the More It Points to God · Crosswalk Talk: Celebrity Christian Interviews

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: Life Audio, Doctor b thanks for joining me.
• 0:06
  Speaker 2: Hey, it's great to be with you.
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: Doctor Michael B. Mile, chemist and professor at Leah University,
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: who is part of a new movie, The Story of Everything,
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: that examines the scientific evidence for desire behind the universe.
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: The Story of Everything dot film as the website, Doctor BD,
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: you became widely known for the concept of irreducible complexity.
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: That's kind of what you're known for. Do you think
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: the conversation around that idea has changed in recent years
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  Speaker 1: and what role do you hope this film plays in
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  Speaker 1: that discussion.
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  Speaker 2: Well, I think more and more people are recognizing it,
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  Speaker 2: although I think the scientific established revolutionary biology is still
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: kicking and screaming against it. But they they try to
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: engage it, and they always recognize it, and it's not
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: going away, so it'll be there and annoying them for
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: a long time. In Britain, in the concept of molecular machinery,
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: Darwin didn't know anything about the basis of life, cells
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: and molecules and so on, and we've learned that the
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: cell is run by machines, really machines made out of molecules,
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  Speaker 2: and they are made up of many different parts. And
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  Speaker 2: if you take parts the way they don't work. So
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  Speaker 2: that's the irreducible complexity aspect of the phrase. So it's
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: hopefully getting concept more widely known.
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: He might have already answered my question, but what scientific
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  Speaker 1: evidence presented in the film do you think is most
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: difficult for strict materialists to explain naturally? In other words,
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: if you were going to boil this the arguments in
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  Speaker 1: this film down to one or two points, what would
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  Speaker 1: you say.
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  Speaker 2: The basic point of the universe is that the more
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  Speaker 2: and were The argument is that the more and more
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  Speaker 2: we know about the universe, the more and more books
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: to be purposely arranged to allow for life. Back in
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: the day and say, the time of the Greeks and
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  Speaker 2: the Romans, classical times, they saw that why look, the
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: seasons are arranged, and we have enough water and so
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  Speaker 2: on for life to exist. And this points to a
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  Speaker 2: creator somebody who set up the world for life to occur.
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: And then arguments were advanced to pooh pooh that. But
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  Speaker 2: then we learned more about biology. Microscope was invented, the
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  Speaker 2: telescope was invented, and we saw that the universe actually,
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  Speaker 2: if it was a little bit different, if the laws
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  Speaker 2: of nature were a little tiny bit different, life couldn't exist.
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: And if you look at biology, it's not. Things are
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  Speaker 2: not just featuredless blobs. And Darwin thought that the more
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  Speaker 2: and more closely you looked at biology, the simpler and
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  Speaker 2: simpler it would get out to be the exact opposite
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  Speaker 2: of what has been discovered. I get and Darwin didn't
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  Speaker 2: know about this cell and the contents of the cell
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  Speaker 2: and DNA and molecular machinery. We've discovered those in the
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: past seventy five hundred years. And the information in the
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  Speaker 2: cell all the machine inyan cell. That's things we know
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  Speaker 2: require purposeful, intelligent arrangement to produce. And so the basic
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  Speaker 2: point of the movie is the more we know, the
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  Speaker 2: more science advances, the more it points to a need
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  Speaker 2: for an explanation beyond the universe God, which most people
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  Speaker 2: will think.
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  Speaker 1: So a lot of people think that the more science
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  Speaker 1: we learn, the more that we learned about science, the
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  Speaker 1: weaker the argument for God.
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  Speaker 2: Is.
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  Speaker 1: You're arguing the opposite, and that is that the more
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  Speaker 1: we learn about science, the strongery of the argument for
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: God is. Why do you think so many people still
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: assume that science and faith are enemies?
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  Speaker 2: Well, and that's an excellent question. I think it just
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  Speaker 2: shows the power of sociology or so pressure in our thinking. Actually, yes,
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  Speaker 2: back in the day, Darwin thought what life was simple,
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  Speaker 2: The cell was just a glob of protoplasm. Most of
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: this is thought that the universe was pretty bland. You know,
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  Speaker 2: there's a bunch of stars there, the earth is planned,
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  Speaker 2: that there's water, but it's not much of them much.
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  Speaker 2: And then we learned that life is extremely sophisticated and
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  Speaker 2: complex and functional, and the universe is set up on
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  Speaker 2: a nice edge to allow life to exist. But ever
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  Speaker 2: since Darwin proposed his idea of evolution, in many quarters,
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  Speaker 2: it's been assumed not so much that he did explain things,
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  Speaker 2: but that science has to explain where everything i'ms from.
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  Speaker 2: And somehow that got embedded as the cool idea we
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  Speaker 2: are smart, we don't need no god or anything to
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  Speaker 2: explain life and nature, and so that is the point
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  Speaker 2: of view that's pushed now. I think it has more
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  Speaker 2: to do with the overwhelming presence of media and the
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  Speaker 2: media classes in our lives that push this idea that
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: science and religion are incompatible when the actual history of
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  Speaker 2: the past one hundred years as this film shows and
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  Speaker 2: a little one hundred and fifty years. Actually it shows
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  Speaker 2: that again the more and more science knows, the more
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  Speaker 2: it points to something beyond the universe.
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  Speaker 1: To God. You've argued, doctor BiH that scientific materialism dominates
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  Speaker 1: so much of scientific dominates so much of higher education.
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  Speaker 1: I should say, what effect does it have on students
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  Speaker 1: and young people searching for meaning and purpose when they
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  Speaker 1: are continually hearing scientific materialism in classrooms?
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  Speaker 2: Well, in classrooms it depends on a large lecture. Class
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  Speaker 2: people don't have much time to discuss these ideas, and
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  Speaker 2: you know, in one on one conversations you can see
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  Speaker 2: a lot of kids are troubled by the thought that
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  Speaker 2: they are just some accidental process of physical events, that
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  Speaker 2: they don't really have a meeting. If they don't have
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  Speaker 2: a meaning, why are they striving? Why are they even
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  Speaker 2: trying to accomplish anything? Darwinian theories as the important thing
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  Speaker 2: is to spread your genes into the next generation, But
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  Speaker 2: you know they don't even care about that. Why should
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  Speaker 2: they care about them? That's an excellent, excellent point. But
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  Speaker 2: as the movie shows, in fact, science is pointing in
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  Speaker 2: the opposite direction, and that we are planned that the
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  Speaker 2: whole universe is set up so that we can exist,
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  Speaker 2: that our bodies are fantastically arranged, and that means that
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  Speaker 2: somebody took a whole lot of care and really really
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  Speaker 2: cares about you and about and by implication, about what
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  Speaker 2: you do with your life, and that will give a
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  Speaker 2: young person a whole different point of view than if
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  Speaker 2: there are just some accident.
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  Speaker 1: I'm curious if you have seen a shift among students
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  Speaker 1: in what they believe or what they're searching for in
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  Speaker 1: recent years. I'm asking that because some college campuses have
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  Speaker 1: seen a shift in amongst students that I'm curious if
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: you've seen anything like that, or just students searching for
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  Speaker 1: maybe something else within the sciences besides materialism.
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  Speaker 2: Well, what I sample size is not that large of
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  Speaker 2: students that I interact with, and usually I interact mostly
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  Speaker 2: with upper class and grad students who are really focused
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  Speaker 2: on learning the details and what research projects are going
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  Speaker 2: on right now. But there certainly are a number of
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  Speaker 2: folks who agree with me and or agree with purposeful
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: design and are anxious to hear more about it. And
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  Speaker 2: the problem is that we've said before it's kind of
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  Speaker 2: officially discouraged. They're more than officially discouraged. It's stamped out
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  Speaker 2: if you talk too much about the reality of design
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  Speaker 2: in life. But hope that you know it's always hard
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: to predict these things. Hopefully it'll become more and more
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  Speaker 2: dominant as the years go by.
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: When you're on an airplane or in an elevator, Maybe
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  Speaker 1: elevator's a bad question because elevator conversations are so quick.
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  Speaker 1: But if you're on an airplane or or at a
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  Speaker 1: restaurant or somewhere and someone learns what you do, do
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  Speaker 1: you have a go to argument for the existence of
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  Speaker 1: God that you just kind of go to that you
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  Speaker 1: can you know, describe in a couple of minutes.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah. Well usually Well, if they're interested in and buy
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  Speaker 2: a chemistry, I start off talking about molecly machinery. But
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  Speaker 2: if it's just somebody who is, why should I believe
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  Speaker 2: that there's anything other than than rocks and stones and nature.
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  Speaker 2: My favorite point is that you have a mind. You know,
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  Speaker 2: it doesn't require any science or education to understand that
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  Speaker 2: you know things. You can reason, and you can understand
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  Speaker 2: and rockston't understand. You are different from just ordinary you
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  Speaker 2: know stuff and the mind, the ability to understand points
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  Speaker 2: to something beyond just laws and just mechanism. And if
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  Speaker 2: you follow along that road and it doesn't get you
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  Speaker 2: there immediately, but that will get you to a spiritual
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  Speaker 2: realm and onto God. And then I asked, you, know,
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  Speaker 2: how do you recognize that a mind has worked, that
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  Speaker 2: a mind has been somewhere doing something. And it turns
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  Speaker 2: out that the way we recognize minds is when we
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  Speaker 2: see physical things arranged for a purpose. And that's the lawn.
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  Speaker 2: But even when you speak, you're arranging sounds for a purpose,
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  Speaker 2: and when you write, you're arranging squiggles for a purpose
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  Speaker 2: of communication. And we see nature arranged for purposes. We
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  Speaker 2: see that in the molecular machinery of the cells that
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  Speaker 2: I write about, we see it in the laws of
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  Speaker 2: the universe, and even just in nature and bunny rabbits
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  Speaker 2: and birds and how they can fly. So we can
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  Speaker 2: see the effects of minds, all of mind into nature
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  Speaker 2: all around us. That's that's my favorite argument.
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  Speaker 1: That's pretty good, And that's pretty good. Maybe final question
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  Speaker 1: for you here, I would ask you why you wanted
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  Speaker 1: to be part of this film. Why did you want
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  Speaker 1: to be part of the story of everything? And what
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  Speaker 1: do you hope it accomplishes within the culture and among audiences.
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  Speaker 2: Well, I wanted to be part of it because I've
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  Speaker 2: spent much of my career trying to get people to
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  Speaker 2: understand that, in fact, science is pointing insistently beyond itself,
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  Speaker 2: to beyond nature and what people recognize as God, as
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  Speaker 2: God's affects on nature, and I want the film to accomplish.
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  Speaker 2: What I'm trying to do, too, is that get this
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  Speaker 2: awareness out into the general public, the mainstream media and
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  Speaker 2: much of society, academia and the press and so on.
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  Speaker 2: For some reason that I cannot understand, is opposed to
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  Speaker 2: that idea. They want to think of humans as autonomous,
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  Speaker 2: as determining their own faiths or something like that, but
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  Speaker 2: that there is nothing out there, and I want to
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  Speaker 2: show them that in fact, if you look at the
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  Speaker 2: science itself rather than what people say, you'll find that
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  Speaker 2: the science is pointing in the completely opposite direction.
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  Speaker 1: You believe then, that this film could encourage the faith
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  Speaker 1: of people of faith, And I'm assuming you also would
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  Speaker 1: love this to be viewed by students, students who are
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  Speaker 1: maybe troubled by what they hear in the classroom.
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  Speaker 2: Yes, yes, too many students have read books like say
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  Speaker 2: the God Delusion by Richard Dawkins and other popularizers of
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  Speaker 2: science who make it a point to try to destroy
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  Speaker 2: the faith of students. And it's extremely important, especially for
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  Speaker 2: young people, to know that there is a purpose for
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  Speaker 2: their lives that nature points to that purpose. You can
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  Speaker 2: be optimistic the things you do will matter, and I'm
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  Speaker 2: hoping the film will advance that message.
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  Speaker 3: If you enjoy today's interview, please make sure to subscribe
• 13:57
  Speaker 3: and share the episode with a friend. Thanks to the
• 14:00
  Speaker 3: team at Life Audio for their partnership with us on
• 14:03
  Speaker 3: the podcast. If you go to lifeaudio dot com, you
• 14:06
  Speaker 3: will find dozens of other faith centered podcasts in their network.
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: See you next time.