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Chosen Family- Shawn Stockman & Billy Mann · Caught on the Mike...

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_04: Disclaimer, the views and opinions expressed in this program are those of the speakers and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions of any entities they represent.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_04: Listener discretion is advised.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_04: On this episode of the podcast, I sit down with two heavyweights in the music world one, a legendary voice behind the most iconic RD group of our time, the Don't Document of Voice the Men, the other, a powerhouse songwriter and producer who's worked with everyone, from Fate to the lead beyond, Billy Command.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_04: Together they've watched something bold and beautiful, a new project called Chosen Family.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_04: It's much more than a musical project, it's a movement about connective creativity and carving space for authenticity in a chaotic world.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_04: We talk legacy, love, the music industry behind the curtain, and why now, more than ever, we need community over division.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_04: Ladies and gentlemen, this is Caught on the Microsoft.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_04: Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to another exciting episode of Caught on the Mic.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_04: Today's episode is a story about roots, reconnection, and the kind of creativity that doesn't just come from the studio, it comes from the soul.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_04: I am joined by two powerhouses: the one and only Sean Stockman, four-time Grammy winner and founder of Boys to Men.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_04: He's also provided the soundtrack of every single high school dance and girl I made out with in high school.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_04: So thank you very much for that, Sean.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_04: And the one and only Billy Man, uh hit making songwriter, producer.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_04: He's worked with the likes of Pink and John Legend and so much more.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_04: Combined together, they are chosen family, and their album dropped today, and it is fantastic.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_04: It's called Generation Us.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_04: I have been listening to tracks off of it for weeks now.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_04: I was so excited to hear the full thing fleshed out this morning on the drive to the day job.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_04: So, guys, welcome to the show.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_04: Thank you, bro.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you for having us and and we appreciate you uh supporting the effort and uh getting into the vibes.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_02: You know, this this is all we wanted.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_02: This is all vibes and energy and and good times and good feelings.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_02: So we wanted to just exude that and and spread it across the country, the world, actually.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_04: I love that.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_04: I love that.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_04: That that goes so well with kind of my mission statement with the podcast.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_04: There's so much going on in the world that is a force to divide us.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_04: And like I know my personal mission statement is to prove that we have more in common than we do different in a world constantly trying to divide us.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_04: So, like if we can put positive content and positive energy out there, whether it be through music and through podcasts, and throw out all the bullshit that we're dealing with in the world, this it's the right way to go.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_02: I agree.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_02: Amen.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_04: Well, you guys have a longstanding friendship that dates back to your time at Philadelphia's creative and performing art school, lifelong love of music, powerful connection as friends.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_04: Let's kind of start at the beginning.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_04: What do you remember about your time at Kappa and how did those early experiences plant the seeds for what this project is?
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I was older than Sean, so it's like we were both second tenors in the choir.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I used to um I used to walk to school with um um with Nate, you know, one of the guys in Boys to Men from time to time.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_01: But it was more later that we connected.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like we knew a lot of the same people.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um but I think but we were taught by the same vocal director, Mr.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_01: King, like anybody that went to Kappa during that era knows.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it was it was a community that was so deep with so many incredibly talented people at one time.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_01: Like I'm actually surprised that there isn't some sort of uh, you know, there's this that there's no like movie that's around all the people that went to the school.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_01: So I mean Boys to Men, but also the roots, um, Christian McBride, Joey D.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_01: Francesco, uh uh I don't know.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I'm like um G Love.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_02: Uh Mel Rue.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_02: Like it was a very we we call it the magic period, me and the guys, because it was in those four years, four or five years, I think we have more Grammys and awards and songwriting awards and things of that nature had come from those four years than probably any other time in the history of that school.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I would say I don't even think other than schools like Berkeley or schools that are predominantly music, then you find any high school that has this level of talent.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_01: And then one of the other guys we went to high school with, um, play Sears, who collaborated with us on the record, he was an instrumental music major and he has played with like John Mayer, and he's out with Stevie Wonder, and you know, so but that was the caliber when we were kids.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_01: And so I ran into, I would run into Sean.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, it was like over the course of as our careers evolved.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, uh Boys and Men Career, that's a rocket ship that took off.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_01: Mine was more like um, you know, I was traveling much more in the steady, you know, turtle wins the race, little train that could.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but you know, it's really where we landed was in the same studios and at the same award shows, and um, and then over over time, um, you know, we connected, and you know, it's very surface most of the time.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_01: Like at backstage in an award show or at a concert, you see people and you kind of like hug it out and say what's up.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_01: But um it's really the connection for us was through our kids.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um both both of us are autism dads.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, this isn't a record that's about that, but in terms of what prompted it, um our boys were really the prompts.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_01: And as um Sean will tell you, it's like when my son is not not verbal.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_01: So he spoke to me and said, call Sean.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_01: And and in that way, we were inspired to connect, and and and that's really where it started for me.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_01: If anything, um like most people from Philly, um, Boys to Men was like a it was a flag you wanted to wave because it was a point of pride.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_01: It was a point of pride for Kappa students, but you know, um, but it was very easy.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_01: We we picked up uh and like all the childhood slang um musically and socially just it did.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_04: Love that, love that.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_04: What do you think it was about that specific moment in time that and that location that produced all that level of talent?
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_04: Do you think it was just an iron sharpens iron moment?
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_02: 100%, 100%.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_02: Like when when you're raised under that ecosystem of talent and raw just gifts that are being honed and crafted and shaped by all of these genius teachers and professors and and uh instructors, um you can't help but to to be great.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_02: Like me and the guys always say, specifically in in our choir, there could have been four or five other boys demens.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_02: Easy.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_02: They were that they were that good.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_02: And and and you know, it just so happened to be us.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, I mean, I look at it as like a musical hardware.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_02: It's one of those things where it's like you're you're learning the the the craft of of of alchemaic uh music and and and within a within a structure, but it it still allowed us to be ourselves and to express ourselves vocally and musically and all of those.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_02: It's it wasn't just about the classes, it was the stuff we did in between class.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_02: Getting together, creating groups, making music, getting getting uh going to Mr.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_02: Walker's room where he had the piano and working out songs.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_02: I I I can literally see and and and look back and see the songs that Nate would work on, for example, and what I would work on that would eventually be on our first album that we worked out all in our in in that high school.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_02: So it's it's just that whole just ecosystem of creativity and music and dance and art and literature and and uh instruments and all of those things every day, five days a week for for six, seven, eight hours.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_01: It's the best place to be.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and the music, the level of musician was I mean, yeah, I don't want to I can't speak to like the other departments in the school, but I tell you this the music side, it was so it wasn't competitive with each other, it was competitive, like you had no choice but to rise.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_01: If you did it, you were gone.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you you were gone.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's like everybody was so good, and and it was like uh, and I you know, I'll give you an example.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_01: Like we can learn a classical piece in the choir, really complicated classical piece in German.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_01: And then you would find all of us in the hallway doing a gospel version of the German classical piece just to fuck with it, just just to like see what you could do with it, right?
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, right, and it was that's how that's how good it was, and um, but it was also look, you know, um the part that's really challenging is a lot of it was still a Philly, you know, an inner city school, and like it was a safe place when you were in the building, but a lot of kids that we grew up with, they did not, you know, they you know, they didn't do as well or um it was in the hood.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_01: It was yeah, it was it was and that part that part is still I think a little heartbreaking for me and and I think for for most of us, because you there are kids that we grew up with that were crazy talented that never saw honestly, they they never saw out of that school.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_01: That school was the that was the they peaked, they peaked.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_04: So, you know, we're kind of taking a step back to the past and we're talking about your experiences as youth.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_04: And as you mentioned, you guys reconnected as fathers of neurodivergent children.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_04: And how it's I'm trying to figure figure out the best way to phrase this, but it kind of adds a little bit more weight to the name of this project, in particular, the chosen family thing, these shared experiences, these shared life experiences, where you know, I I love the name of your group, by the way, because you know, as I'm I'm an estranged child, so I know the concept of chosen family very, very, very well.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_04: The people that you surround yourself with, the people that take up a special place in your heart.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_04: So reconnecting and like bringing all of these life experiences together, how has it influenced this album that dropped today, Generation Us?
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_02: Um, like Billy mentioned, it it it was the really the tie that binded us.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_02: Like we always respected each other's prowess and what we did and and enjoyed each other's music, you know, from afar, but uh it was almost like Kismet that we did this project because of the parallels.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_02: Us being going to the same high school, us all, you know, the both of us being autism dads, um musicians, the whole thing.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_02: Like it just we were chosen.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_02: We were chosen to uh walk this walk and to do it the way that we did it, or that we're we're doing it now.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_02: So we just felt like it was just meant to be, and and uh we were family from long ago, and just like some family, you you reunite and for a greater purpose.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_02: So chosen family was it it has many layers to the actual moniker because of just all of those those attributes, all of those components that make us who we are.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_02: So again, it's deeper than just the music itself.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_02: It's the bond.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_02: Like when it's all said and done, Billy and I will always be friends, whether this project, you know, soars or sec or sinks.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_02: Um, we have that connection, that that forever connection, and and we'll always be chosen family.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_01: I think the other thing I would add is that the I mean, look, there are a lot of people I know in the LGBTQ community that chosen family is really important to them, right?
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_01: And um, and so there are a lot of people like you, that you just mentioned, who are maybe kids that are estranged or they don't have access to family members, and then who you surround yourself with is chosen family.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I think um, you know, I mean, the only thing I would say, Sean, and hearing you is that there's nothing about this project that thinks, right?
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_01: Because the choice that we made to do it wasn't a choice based on trying to be validated by the industry.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_01: We've got that already.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_01: So it's more like what we and we have to remind ourselves of that too, right?
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_01: Because um when you are inherently so driven and you know, you want to achieve and and get music out there to people, um, this is a luxury experience.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_01: We are, I said to Sean earlier today, this is a good cheat.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_01: This is the kind of like thing you look at your life and you get to do it, and you are it's a good cheat.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_01: You're you're cheating on your life in good, healthy ways.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_01: And um, I would just, you know, well, it's a we're lucky that we get to to make that choice, I think.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_04: Based on some of the things that you guys are saying, it's almost like a full circle moment back to authenticity, that your life path has brought you back to a place where you can write from a place where you're not kind of chasing hits or you know, where you're able to actually express yourselves as if this was a fresh start all over again.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_04: Am I wrong to assume that?
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_02: 100% that that that's the the allure to doing this and and to wanting to do more of it because it's literally eating cake for breakfast, lunch, and dinner.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_02: And and this is the cool thing about it.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_02: We we can't wait to be on stage and and singing in front of people and just uh just sharing that joy.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_02: Because I think that's what a lot of music is missing.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's missing the the intent behind it.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_02: Like everybody you see or hear on the radio, most of the time their intention is to be famous, is to be a star, is to be rich, is to be the hot guy in the club, or the hot girl in the club, or whatever.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_02: And all of it being contrived to reach some level of superficial validation.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_02: Whereas this one, this particular project, we just want to grab some guitars that we just picked up from the guitar shop that we thought were cool, and and play these things in front of people and with some songs that we wrote, and just clown and sweat on stage and create a a camaraderie and create a energy of togetherness where by the end of the show we might be in the crowd playing our guitars with the crowds, drinking beers and and high-fiving each other.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_02: Like, you know what I'm saying?
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's we we we we welcome that type of of community, and this is what this whole thing is about.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, I love that.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_04: So let's talk about the genesis of you guys working together and writing these songs together.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_04: How did that specifically come about?
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_01: You know, initially we were, you know, we talk again like with our classmate from high school, Clay.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and we were I was sending texts of ideas to Don.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, I mean the the start of it was let's just hang out and play guitars and talk about life, and also because because we're autism dads, it's it's it's a good it was a good a good place for us to go and hang out, and then you could talk about your family life, which you know, I don't want to overly generalize about anything, but it's I think it's hard for dads to do that.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um I think it's hard for men to do that.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_01: Well, yeah, I I I I only know that it's such a unique experience, and I think that moms, I mean, my wife is amazing, and I know Sean's wife is amazing.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that you build community, it's you it's it's more for some reason it seems or felt more accessible.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_01: So that was the first start.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_01: And then um, you know, because Sean is an amazing guitarist, which is overlooked sometimes because you think, you know, when you're one of the greatest RB singers and the biggest RB groups, right?
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, guitar is not required, right?
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_01: But he started playing um when he was about 40, and he's ridiculous.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_01: So I think the idea of just um Sean showing up with a guitar and me showing up with a guitar, and he was they were on tour in London, and I was traveling, and Clay was coming from DC, and we just got to Philly and it just began.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but sending each other texts of like little snippets of ideas, and then Sean came in.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_01: Sorry, Sean, but Sean came in and he had this, he had this, you know, this idea, like started playing what became mistakes, and he was singing the well hello thing.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_01: And um, and you know, when you start any writing session with any artist, I mean for me, it's like I'm I'm this is my day-to-day.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you don't know what the fuck is gonna come out.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_01: You're gonna walk in and you uh first of all, you know, depending on who the artist is, you really are we're is we're magicians.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, songwriters, we're creating something that when you're done, it's still invisible, right?
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so we're just we don't know what it's gonna be, but it was so easy.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's when it when it all goes back to that sort of that that muscle memory, the experience that Sean was talking about in school, is that the training, like that it just it made it super easy.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_01: But I I will say that um what I didn't expect to happen, I don't think any of us expected, was how quickly it just poured out of us.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_01: It just it just poured out of us.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_02: It was a great inaugural song because it it it's really about my concept, my idea of it was me looking at the future me and seeing this illuminated human being that I always wanted to be, but was scared at the same time of being that person because of me understanding what it was going to take to evolve into that human being.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um that's why it says, Well, hello, you look familiar, but I I don't think that I've seen your face before because I haven't seen that guy yet.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, you know, but there's a glow all around you that makes me afraid, but so hard to ignore.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_02: So it it's one it's it's almost like looking at something so beautiful that you you you can't really turn your face from.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_02: And and and you know that it's something that connects with you.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_02: And it it's it's a scary thing to to change.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_02: It's a scary thing to evolve and to become greater than uh what you are, because uh you don't know uh uh what hell you're gonna have to go through to get there.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_02: So it's it's it's all of those things.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_02: And and as the core states, mistakes are where miracles are born to be.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_02: So you can't it's that old phrase, pressure makes diamonds.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_02: It's like you you can't really become the uh illuminated person that you're meant to become without uh feeling a little pain.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_02: And uh that that that's I think it's it's it it's congruent to this whole project in itself.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_02: Like it it it's about changing, it's about evolving and and welcoming the fear, welcoming the the the the the the bruises and the bumps, but still understand that there's a purpose behind every scar.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_02: And that's that's what the song's about.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_04: I gotta tell you, um, you know, we're all musicians here.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_04: So like music has this ability to the right song I should say has this ability to touch you on such a visceral level that you can kind of tap into past, present, future, your sense of nostalgia, your sense of where you're going.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_04: And that song in particular Mistakes did such a great job with that the other night when I was like I said I was I had the headphones on and I'm listening to it in bed.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_04: And um you know I hear the fingerprints of your both of your past works in that but I also hear moments that kind of evoke you know Simon and Garfunkel and the Beatles and like that pre-chorus in particular like the pre-chorus the way that that hit me at times it makes me think of other songs that kind of tap into that sense of nostalgia.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_04: 93 Tell Infinity by Souls of Mischief is one of those songs.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_01: But I mean it it tapped into that for me and I absolutely love that and there are several moments throughout the album press save is another one that does such a good job of that were you guys conscious of that while you're writing your music how that uh the emotions would be evoked from a person I mean I I think that we were conscious of the fact that we were taking a departure I mean for one from my perspective that's more the the singer-songwriter element of things is something that I I'd like steeped in that historically and I think from the um for Sean just like his guitar playing is a part of you know uh his growth and his experience and an extension of him I think I mean what I I think we were really aware of the fact that from a direction standpoint it was going to be an acoustic record it was going to be unison vocals and some harmonies that would be reverbs and and that that it would be it would be a much earthier thing than what you know whatever big pop artist I could be working with or a Boys to Med record.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_01: But I do think that we I mean the way that the album is being received is it's like an Americana soul.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_01: It's you know it is Americana in the way that it's acoustic guitars and vocals and it's raw there's no you know there's there's there's nothing about this that's like you know that kind of super ultra compressed ultra processed shit in it.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_01: But there the soul part it's like if you listen to like Oceans of love and you listen to any of these songs it's like well starter you can't you can't step away from that.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_02: Sorry Sean I feel like you want to jump in and go man no no no no bro I I I I listen I I I let you cook.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_01: I mean you know you're you're you're you're knocking it out the colour but I but I what I I guess what the part that you don't know is we we were moving so quickly I mean it was coming out of us so fast the whole process that not just the songwriting but the songwriting the vocals the guitar arrangements um you know I don't again I don't want to uh you know undercut just how impactful Clay uh Sears was who some great guitarists but the overall experience was like it was just untethered there was nothing there was no AR guy coming in saying oh you gotta like do X Y and Z.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_01: It was none of that it was it was pure the whole process was pure so you know press save was like I mean that's a special they're all special they they all have their own life force to them but they're all in my view they're all part have the spirit that's Simon Garfunkel's type spirit but it's also got the like Bill Withers spirit it's got you know it's so it's got like you know some of the Isley brothers you know is oceans of love and some of those core changes you know it's like if you Harvest for the world by the Isley brothers is adjacent to Americana Soul.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_01: But what but yeah I just think what's cool honestly is seeing us on these playlists Americana playlists um it's that part is I mean it's it's it's beautiful for me musically but I also see how much fun it is for Sean to be able to step out and not be typecast as a musician and that's part of it.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_01: Part of it is like uh how do you not typecast yourself and that's what I mean about the people that listen to it that are our age that are adults like we want you to sit and open up a bottle of wine and relax and and experience the music and that we and and not feel like you know either well what does that slang mean or you know I don't know if I should be listening to this or you know it's not even that it's like adult music.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_01: It's supposed to be that and that's the way our shows are going to be we're gonna include people and I think it's I think the best part about it is I'm sort of on one but is we we just kept going in the direction we were going.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think we thought about it beyond that.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_01: And this is what happened.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_04: So Sean what is it like for you to be on Americana charts and and and experience this from a different angle for once I told really I said this is this was not on like the life's bingo card for me.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_02: Apparently it was bro yeah yeah this this was something that just came with the the journey yeah and when when things like that happen it just makes life that much more spicier and yummier to to know that there are boundaries that you didn't even know about that you could break and but that's what happens when you follow your heart I think with with doing this guitar thing I I I was just trying to imitate my heroes Hendrix Stevie Ravon and John Mayer and learn the chords and and see if I could do a couple little tricks on stage for fun and I didn't realize how deep the the love was going to to go for just the virtues of guitar.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_02: Not just actually playing it but once you get into the philosophies and and the the verbiage of of a lot of my my heroes right which it is his extended now it it went from those guys that I just mentioned to uh uh Albert King and and BB King and and uh uh Jackson Brown and and and all these guys that I now listen to differently because now I'm I'm I'm dissecting what they do on the fretboard and trying to imprint some of that DNA into my plan.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_02: So now it now that I'm able to do that I have somewhat of a skill set.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_02: So now I can hear things and actually imitate it which is a bug out to me to know that I can actually learn an Ernie Isley lick is one of the most fulfilling things that I've ever done in my whole career.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_02: And this is next to Boys to men and all that other stuff.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_02: This is this this is spiritual on so many levels and the levels that I didn't think that I would be experiencing that I'm forever changed because of this.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_02: And like I said it it's it's been a a a blessing and such a fulfilling ride.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_02: And now I'm able to do it with a friend of mine standing next to me and and and and singing and playing and and hearing him do some shit that's gonna make me go, oh I gotta learn that later after the show.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I'm saying?
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's it's a constant just fertile soil of just music and and creativity.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_04: It's it's amazing.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_04: See I love the fact that you guys have put so much weight into the production value of the acoustic guitar specifically there are little nuances that you know I think maybe not a lot of um uh pedestrian non-musician types might get on first listen but little things like little pick scrapes and like the way a strum is recorded and such that you guys did so well like I I know from firsthand experience recording an acoustic guitar can sometimes be a damn nightmare but your your guitar tone and everything sounds so good.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_04: The album sounds so warm um listening to the thing front to back this morning um I I even posted about it on Instagram where I said this album is landing at the perfect time as summer starts to come to a close and we start kind of treading our way into fall because I know for me personally my music tastes are very seasonal and this feels like the right album coming out at the right time.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_02: Oh this album goes great with a pumpkin spice you you said it man it's perfect you get it you get a nice blueberry scone you get a pumpkin spice latte you you you got your your air pods on you're sitting outside because it's of the Starbucks or whatever coffee shop you you frequent and you you sit there and you people watch and you cross your legs and you're just listening to the music and you're just kind of vibing out and stuff it's perfect.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's it's that type of vibe that is like dude I'm just gonna say this right now that is like the totally spot on and how far we have come from Philly Philly be like I can see in an alleyway getting coffee from big feet someone smoking something and we're like we we we got those songs we split us I think we split a a tasty cake uh yeah man but this this is for the uh the advanced in wisdom yeah man i'll say that yeah they're the guy the the the folks that has gone through shit has raved in college and parties and had the lesbian experience and now is married and have kids and all of that stuff and you know you know what I'm saying like like you know you've you've you've grown you've you've you've you've you've seen some shit you've experienced some things you took the weird drugs you you you know you've you now you're grown up and and you've fallen in love and you've been heartbroken and you've broken hearts and and you've lost jobs and you've lost houses and you've gone through life things and you've lost people and all of that like this is what I think by osmosis this is encompassed with this record like this is our lives being played out with music and and and that's the the tie that binds us even if you you've never met us before like you can hear it and you can listen to the the lyrical content and and the the actual music itself just like you said the the the scraping of the pick on the strings and you know that type of thing like I I think I'm slightly autistic myself because part of playing the guitar for me is somewhat of a stem it soothes me so because it's so close to my chest so when I hear it and when I hear the scrapes of the strings and stuff like that it does something for me you know from a from a just a you know sensory sensitivity I like that M O R kind of feel yeah so so again it it covers all of those bases it's a human album it's filled with blood and anima and and and veins and and and sinew and all of those things.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_02: This is what makes this album what it is because it's all organic.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah you know you you talked basically talked about all of us being old guys without calling us all old guys but this album definitely feels lived in now we've all been through kind of a shared experience uh the whole world went through it five years ago we you know we all experienced the global pandemic and it seems like people's relationship with nostalgia and life experiences changed as a result of it we all look at life a lot differently as a result of that some better than others but what is your guys' individual relationship with nostalgia like when you consider the context of this album and the things that you guys have already created in the past I mean I think that uh like one of the benefits of being a songwriter and a producer professionally is that I get to hop around.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_01: So my experience is not you know it's it's much freer I can go from you know uh a boy band to Bert Baccarac to a John Legend to pink and in a in in a two week time I can move around genres I can move around differently and that that's a that's one of the cool parts of of being an independent and creative person in that way.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_01: I think what this project has done for me and the nostalgia is directly connected to the forcing mechanism that being quarantined and that the pandemic had on people which is it forced all of us to be grounded.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_01: I had never I had never been at home for longer than maybe six weeks since I was a teenager and all of a sudden I was at home and um we are I think everybody who has lived through that experience and listen I mean Sean and I live in really beautiful homes like our quarantine experience is a much more lucky and um easier experience than people who were like in families living in small apartments that were ramped up together and we know that but I think we feel less guilty about seizing the day.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that the nostalgia you know there's like the musical nostalgia it's like a this feels like a Bill Rithersy vibe or a Simon Garfung vibe.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_01: But I think the real nostalgia is feeling less guilt about allowing yourself to see the moment more because the humility that came to us from the pandemic I think that's gonna last especially for us the adults that live through the experience I mean my youngest kid it's like a it's they're so elastic and resilient it's like a it'll be a memory but it'll be a a faded memory.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_01: For us what that meant cleaning our stop you know the food we got at the store the bags I mean the stuff we the the the shit that we went through the the the the paranoia and the worry and it was it was terrible.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_01: So I think the biggest nostalgia point for me is it's not so selfish for us to carve out a little bit of space outside of our normal shit to express ourselves.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't know if that answers the question in terms of it does musical nostalgia but for me I feel like I I don't think I would have done this and I don't know if I can't speak for Sean but I it's much easier to explore something like this that's outside the lines knowing that you know we just don't know what tomorrow brings so why should we not do it and hopefully that the people that hear about the record and hear the record that the takeaway at least from our live shows because when we play together it's it is beautiful but from the live show that they take away like that was an unexpected cool thing that we were just a part of and I just I I want more of that I I want I'm I'm selfish about that and um mine I don't know I I I I do think that um a lot of things that people are doing in a post-pandemic way some of them by the way we're talking about musical but some of them are like divorces like this marriage was never good anyway or some others like you know I think it forced us to to to recognize our mortality in a way different than we had before yes yes like taking inventory realistically everybody's taking personal inventory a lot better and a lot more efficiently I mean we could we could commiserate for hours probably on the ugliness on the other side of it but we won't go there.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_04: What about you Sean what what is your experience with nostalgia and both musically and personally like in regards to all of this Billy pretty much summed it up but I'll just say that it's one of the reasons why I mean I was already on that fuck it drain but the the the pandemic just pretty much sealed it for me.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah like it just made everybody that is if you were paying attention made everybody realize that life is very fragile and what you do today is all that matters and and who you spend your time with today is all that matters so take full advantage of it because there's no guarantee of tomorrow so uh to know that people's lives hung in the balance of an invisible virus is just absolutely insane and it but it also puts a lot of things in in the right perspective.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_02: So with that yeah you you you look at your loved ones you realize at least in my case I've realized I realized during that pandemic that my family's access to cool people like you know outside of me loving them and the the bias side of it I think anybody could have hung with my family and and been totally fine like they're just cool folks yeah and and I I just I actually appreciated and enjoyed uh uh those two years I really did like you know it's it it was it just allowed us to bond in ways that we probably would have never dealt with before and it just allowed me to love my my babies more right baby yeah again you know why um I'm just gonna return I'm getting my nails done and I'm gonna get out so all right bye peace bye love it you'll be safe okay all right love you love you bye love so yeah so so yeah so it's one of those things where you just realize what matters and what doesn't so we've talked about the past we've talked about the present now let's talk about the future what happens next album drop today um obviously there's the normal marketing thing what are the plans for chosen family moving forward I know in your press release you guys talk a little bit about a tour are we expecting you guys to tour and do some shows all over the US we want to we want to that's the goal um the music is great in your headphones but we feel like the experience in person is better and it it just makes people appreciate those moments with our music better it more um when you see it um and when you hear the the the the conversation that we're having with the actual crowd and and the connection that that's that's where I think uh our our our brightest moments will be when we're on stage sweating it out making mistakes and laughing about it at the same time and and just enjoying a human experience with other humans that appreciate and understand the the the necessity of togetherness of actually being in s front of someone's face and hearing seeing and feeling their emotions.
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_02: There's nothing like a live show and it it it can in depending on the circumstance it could be life changing because the beauty of Performing live is you never know how the spirit's gonna move the crowd.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_02: There might be things that might come about in the midst of our set list that might make us go somewhere else and do something else, or sing something else, or say something else that just sparks a a different type of of weight to the performance.
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_02: So when people leave, they leave different.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_02: So we we look forward to being a part of that that that catharsis and and and and somehow generating something special within that.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_02: We want our shot.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_02: We want our shot at doing that.
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_02: We've seen so many do it.
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_02: We've seen Simon and Garfogel do it, we've seen uh uh Fish do it, we've seen The Grateful Dead do it, we've seen you know, so many artists do that and capture those moments with people.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_02: And it's a it's a blessed gift, and we want to be able to do that to it's coming.
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we've got by the way, just in the blocking and tackling of time, you know, we have a we're gonna do uh performance, I think, uh in Nashville coming up, one in Detroit coming up, but it's just you know, putting it together, it's really exciting.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_01: And um, and and Sean is right, there's nothing there's nothing better than when you sit in front of people with your instruments and connect.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_01: And you don't need all the bells and whistles and all whatever.
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_01: You can just do it with with great songs, great, great music.
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_04: I love that.
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_04: I love that.
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_04: Guys, this so far, this has been an absolute honor and a pleasure.
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_04: My closing question is a little bit off kilter, but I am really interested to hear how you guys answer it individually, and that is given all of your experience, what is your advice for making the world a better place tomorrow than what it is today?
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_02: I think um we are the same in a lot of uh instances, but I think the problem is we don't accept and appreciate each other's differences.
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_02: Like the part of the world and what makes it so spicy and beautiful are our differences, and while everybody's so busy at trying to be the same, we're the same, we should be the same.
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_02: No, we should be different, and we should learn how to respect each other's differences.
• 47:01
  SPEAKER_02: That's the that's the secret sauce.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_02: It's not being the same, it's reveling in each other's uh different perspectives and cultures and and and lifestyles and all of those things, and learning from it, or at least if you don't relate with it to it, at least respecting that person for thinking or believing those things and allowing that person their space.
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_02: The the problem with the world to me is the colonization of ideals.
• 47:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, everybody has to be this way, and that's where all hell broke roots.
• 47:47
  SPEAKER_02: There was a time where everybody wasn't the same, and that was okay.
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_02: Everybody came from different worlds and had different shades of and hues of skin and and different foods and different ways to cook it in the whole nine yards, and everybody just traded secrets, traded things off, and it was cool.
• 48:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, the problem started when everybody was trying to push this same thing agenda, where I don't I don't think that's it.
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_02: I think that yes, we we all we all have a life expectancy, that's what makes us the same.
• 48:27
  SPEAKER_02: We all have arms, limbs, and and eyes, that makes us the same.
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_02: But Billy's perspective is what makes me respect him.
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_02: Because even though we do have similar journeys, he took a different road, and I can learn from that.
• 48:48
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 48:49
  SPEAKER_02: I can be a better person because he did something that I didn't do.
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_02: So I think what in my humble opinion, what will make the world a better place is to stop alienating somebody or stop hating somebody because their nose is a little bigger.
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_02: It's weird.
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_02: It's weird, it's very weird, and it's not welcoming to me.
• 49:17
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, everybody should just accept the differences.
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_04: I was just gonna say, back in the day, you would walk in a bar and there would be a sign behind the bar and it would say, uh, no politics, no religion, and everybody would just get along and have drinks together.
• 49:31
  SPEAKER_04: And then when we started, then when we when we started exactly like you're saying, colonizing ideas and colonizing personalities, that's when all hell broke loose and and things went to shit.
• 49:45
  SPEAKER_04: Let's just let's just love each other for for who they are.
• 49:50
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, yes.
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_01: What about you, Billy?
• 49:53
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I I mean, I listen, I of course I agree with Sean.
• 49:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I I really like my nose, by the way.
• 49:59
  SPEAKER_01: I feel good about it.
• 50:00
  SPEAKER_01: Just FYI.
• 50:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um it's a great nose.
• 50:03
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you, brother.
• 50:04
  SPEAKER_01: Uh same for you.
• 50:06
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I what I would say is uh because I'm aligned with Sean on this, what stands in the way for me is the fact that we are being super tribalized every day.
• 50:19
  SPEAKER_01: What happens in the way that like a very complicated news story is reduced to like 15 seconds um without verification of where it is.
• 50:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um there are it it there's no quality control, there is just volume, and everything is on blast.
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_01: And the weird part about it is we've never been more connected ever in the history of the world, and people have never felt more tribalized and isolated and lonely um and depressed and hopeless, even though we're all so connected.
• 50:56
  SPEAKER_01: And part of that is to Sean's point, the idea that um there are forces seeking uniformity in the human experience, and that isn't what makes us beautiful.
• 51:09
  SPEAKER_01: So I would only say that um I think the way that the world becomes better is when we realize that the um information that we're getting and the volume, the velocity of it isn't giving us a variety of differences.
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_01: It's actually giving us more of the same in volume.
• 51:32
  SPEAKER_01: I like chocolate cake, and then all of a sudden my feed is flooded with so much chocolate cake.
• 51:39
  SPEAKER_01: You can't imagine how much chocolate cake and I love chocolate cake.
• 51:42
  SPEAKER_01: At which point I'm not exposed to strawberry shortcake or whatever else.
• 51:46
  SPEAKER_01: And it's the same thing with politics, it's the same thing with music, it's the same thing with fashion, it's the same thing with you know, whatever it is that you are attracting is going to be multiplied by that algorithm that you're subject to.
• 52:01
  SPEAKER_01: So we need to figure out how to stop that.
• 52:05
  SPEAKER_01: That's chosen family, the music we're making, our collaboration, the dynamic of two brothers who grew up together but in very separate and different experiences.
• 52:18
  SPEAKER_01: That's the beauty of this project.
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_01: That's what why we want to play live.
• 52:22
  SPEAKER_01: That's why we want people to listen to it.
• 52:24
  SPEAKER_01: Because you know what?
• 52:25
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sorry, but chocolate and peanut butter makes a really good Reese's peanut butter cup.
• 52:29
  SPEAKER_01: And we gotta like, that doesn't happen if we're just feeding ourselves the homogenous version of whatever it is we think we like in the moment.
• 52:37
  SPEAKER_01: So I think the more we do that, the more we diversify our our intake, the richer and more nutritious uh the quality of life will be for everybody.
• 52:47
  SPEAKER_01: I just about Reese's.
• 52:49
  SPEAKER_01: I know me too.
• 52:50
  SPEAKER_04: I love Reese's too, man.
• 52:53
  SPEAKER_04: Pursue discovery, not dopamine.
• 52:56
  SPEAKER_04: And maybe that's that's kind of a good way to to to sum it all up, like continuously pursue discovery versus just pursuing that dopamine rush that everybody is so after every day.
• 53:08
  SPEAKER_04: Why don't you let my audience know where they can find you guys online and your new album?
• 53:14
  SPEAKER_02: Chosen Family Music on uh Instagram.
• 53:16
  SPEAKER_02: We have our Chosen Family Music website where you can look at uh future tour dates, you can look them up and and merchandise and and other little tidbits we're going to uh have on the actual site.
• 53:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 53:28
  SPEAKER_02: And uh chosenfamily.co.
• 53:31
  SPEAKER_01: There you go, chosenfamily.co.co.
• 53:34
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 53:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, Billy Mann has his Instagram.
• 53:36
  SPEAKER_02: Please look him up.
• 53:37
  SPEAKER_02: He's he's a pretty nice guy.
• 53:38
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 53:39
  SPEAKER_02: And mine is Joe and Stockman Official.
• 53:41
  SPEAKER_02: And uh yeah, thank you so much for for supporting in advance, and we'll see y'all real soon.
• 53:48
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, I love it, guys.
• 53:50
  SPEAKER_04: You know, I I I gotta tell you guys, the world's a much better place with you guys in it.
• 53:55
  SPEAKER_04: I hope we can break bread together in the real world someday.
• 53:58
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 53:59
  SPEAKER_04: Thanks for doing the show.
• 54:00
  SPEAKER_04: Love it.
• 54:00
  SPEAKER_04: Thank you, brother.
• 54:01
  SPEAKER_04: Thank you so much.
• 54:02
  SPEAKER_04: Once again, I'd like to thank my new friends, John Stockman and Billy Mann, for joining me on the podcast today.
• 54:09
  SPEAKER_04: Check out Chosen Family on all streaming platforms.
• 54:13
  SPEAKER_04: Visit them, chosenfamily.co, buy a t-shirt, listen to their songs, help yourself feel better about the world.
• 54:21
  SPEAKER_04: Their music has that effect.
• 54:24
  SPEAKER_04: Make sure you follow them on social media as well at ChosenFamily Music.
• 54:29
  SPEAKER_04: And while you are being generous with the social media follows, make sure you follow me, caught on the mic at caught on the mic on all social platforms.
• 54:38
  SPEAKER_04: If you are only listening to this, go watch the video version on YouTube.
• 54:43
  SPEAKER_04: I need the YouTube subscriptions, so if you could give me a YouTube sub as well.
• 54:48
  SPEAKER_04: You can also find me online on my own website, www.caughtonthemic.com.
• 54:55
  SPEAKER_04: I could be reached there for a number of different things.
• 54:58
  SPEAKER_04: This has been Caught on the Mike with Michael Clark.
• 55:01
  SPEAKER_04: I'm Michael Clark.
• 55:02
  SPEAKER_04: Until next time, thank you.