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ARSON? FIRE DEATH TOLL RISING, LOOTERS ROAM, POLITICOS POINT FINGERS · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace Arson, with the fire death
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Speaker 1: toll rising, looters, roaming, politicians pointing the fingers. How do
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Speaker 1: the wildfires start? If this was Arson, that equals murder charges.
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Speaker 1: I'm Nancy Grace. This is crime Stories. Thank you for
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Speaker 1: being with us.
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Speaker 2: At least eighty thousand people displaced by raising fires as
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Speaker 2: evacuees learned their homes burned to the ground.
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Speaker 1: Eighty thousand and rising. You can't turn on the TV
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Speaker 1: or look at your iPad without seeing more people suffering.
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Speaker 1: And we're hearing a lot about a less celebrities hold
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Speaker 1: up at Chateau Mormont and beyond ordering wine, champagne, expensive
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Speaker 1: gourmet food and even ozipic.
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Speaker 3: What about the.
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Speaker 1: Other seventy nine thousand evacuated that have nowhere to go,
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Speaker 1: nowhere to go, all of their possessions gone, much less
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Speaker 1: the fatalities. Take a listen to La County Sheriff Robert Luna.
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Speaker 4: We started a search and rescue operation out in the
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Speaker 4: Eaton area where in the first day of this operation
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Speaker 4: grid searching, we searched approximately three hundred and sixty four
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Speaker 4: properties in the Altadena area. We have confirmed fourteen deaths
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Speaker 4: and that is in our specific La County jurisdiction, eleven
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Speaker 4: at the Eaton fire, and three in our portion or
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Speaker 4: our jurisdiction in the Palisades fire.
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Speaker 1: And that death toll is rising. Why joining me and
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Speaker 1: All Star panel to make sense of what we are
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Speaker 1: learning as we go to air. Straight out to Courtney Friel,
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Speaker 1: anchor reporter KTLA NS.
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Speaker 3: Courtney, thank you for being with us, Courtney.
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Speaker 1: It's hard to imagine all of these fires starting simultaneously
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Speaker 1: in various geographic areas.
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Speaker 3: What's happening right now, Nancy?
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Speaker 5: At one point there were seven fires at one time,
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Speaker 5: and I've been working in the past six days NonStop
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Speaker 5: around the clock at KTLA, and this is the most
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Speaker 5: devastating nightmare any of us have covered. The two main
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Speaker 5: fires that were focusing on. Of course, the Palisades Fire
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Speaker 5: twenty four thousand acres burned, fifty three hundred structures, only
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Speaker 5: thirteen percent contained. They Eaten fire over in Altadena and
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Speaker 5: Pasadena is fourteen thousand acres with fourteen hundred structures burned.
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Speaker 5: But sadly, as you mentioned, death and twenty four lives
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Speaker 5: have been lost. But the Pacific Palisades is just decimated.
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Speaker 5: There's nothing left there's maybe twenty percent of the homes
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Speaker 5: here and there still around, but those people aren't able
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Speaker 5: to even go back and live there anytime soon because
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Speaker 5: there's no electricity or internet, or gas or water. And
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Speaker 5: it's just unprecedented what's happened out here and so tragic.
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Speaker 1: Again, Courtney, feel thank you for being with us from KTLA.
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Speaker 1: Explain to me, you're mentioning multiple fires happening. It's very
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Speaker 1: hard for those that have not dealt with arson and
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Speaker 1: those of us that have dealt with arson cases to
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Speaker 1: understand how so many different fires could have started practically simultaneously.
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Speaker 5: Yeah, I understand that a lot of people are saying, oh,
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Speaker 5: this must be arson. And in the Kenneth fire, there
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Speaker 5: was an arrest that was made. I can only tell
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Speaker 5: you from our perspective what KTLA is covering. We probably
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Speaker 5: spent five minutes on that, because right now we are
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Speaker 5: focused on telling the stories of the people who have
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Speaker 5: lost their homes when people can get back in, and
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Speaker 5: the firefighting efforts, which, of course hundreds and hundreds of
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Speaker 5: firefighters from all over the country now are trying to
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Speaker 5: put these out. There's going to be a time to
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Speaker 5: blame everyone, of course, and this story is going to
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Speaker 5: have so many tangents. I mean, we're going to be
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Speaker 5: talking about the insurance issues. How about how no one
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Speaker 5: can find a place to live because there's price gouging
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Speaker 5: going on with all of the short term rentals. It's
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Speaker 5: just it's just mind boggling, to be.
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Speaker 1: Honest, it really is.
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Speaker 3: Guys. Take a listen to crime online dot Com Dave Mack.
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Speaker 2: The death toll for the Southern California fires is up
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Speaker 2: to twenty four with dozens more missing. Cadaver dogs are
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Speaker 2: now being brought in to locate human remains, and Los
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Speaker 2: Angeles County Sheriff Robert Luna has warned the death toll
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Speaker 2: will likely continue to rise.
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Speaker 1: Straight out to renowned medical examiner doctor Tyndall Crown's, joining
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Speaker 1: US Chief Medical Examiner Terran County and estamed lecturer at
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Speaker 1: the Brenet School of Medicine at Tea, see you, doctor
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Speaker 1: Kendall Crowns. In cases like this, the cod causes of
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Speaker 1: death can be many, many different things. We could have
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Speaker 1: smoke inhalation. We could have someone dying literally burning to death.
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Speaker 1: We could have a home being destroyed and timber falling
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Speaker 1: on the person. In cases like this, what is the
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Speaker 1: most common cood cause of death.
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Speaker 6: Usually it's carbon monoxide in toxicity or inhalation of the fire.
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Speaker 6: The gases produced by the fire produced carbon monoxide, and
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Speaker 6: usually people succumb to the carbon monoxide prior to being burned.
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Speaker 6: But sometimes if the fire is fast enough, what you'll
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Speaker 6: see is a combination of carbon monoxide and thermal burns.
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Speaker 1: When you say thermal burns, what do you mean.
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Speaker 6: When an individual the house catches on fire, They catch
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Speaker 6: on fire, their clothing catches on fire, They get burns
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Speaker 6: all over their skin, body, and then they succumb to
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Speaker 6: the burns that they've received.
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Speaker 1: Guys, take a listen to La County Fire Chief Anthony Morony.
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Speaker 7: The Eton fire is now estimated to be fourteen thousand,
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Speaker 7: one hundred and seventeen acres with twenty seven percent containment.
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Speaker 7: We know that over seven thousand structures are damaged or destroyed,
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Speaker 7: and we have three thousand, one hundred and fifty five
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Speaker 7: firefighting personnel assigned to the incident.
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Speaker 1: That regards the eight in fire. But what about Palisas?
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Speaker 1: Take us to La County Fire Chief Kristin Crowley.
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Speaker 8: Palisades Fire, aaron ground crews work tiresly overnight with favorable
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Speaker 8: wind conditions to prevent further spread into the Mandeville Canyon area.
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Speaker 8: The fire is currently at twenty three thousand, seven hundred
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Speaker 8: and seven acres with four thousand, seven hundred and twenty
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Speaker 8: personnel that are signed. They're still active fires that are
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Speaker 8: burning within the Palisades area, making it extremely extremely dangerous
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Speaker 8: for the public. There's no power, there's no water, there's
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Speaker 8: broken gas lines, and we have unstable structures. Canine search
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Speaker 8: teams have been deployed to assist with our recovery efforts.
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Speaker 1: Again joining me an all star panel. To Courtney Friel,
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Speaker 1: you have discussed the displacement in the evacuation of so
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Speaker 1: many thousands of people. What is the working theory as
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Speaker 1: to how the fires started.
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Speaker 5: I can tell you that I have been on the
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Speaker 5: ground in Pacific Palisades and it is so dangerous right now,
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Speaker 5: so that's why the residents are not being allowed back in.
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Speaker 5: But I've also been with people as they've come back
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Speaker 5: to their homes, and none of them who have lost
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Speaker 5: their homes are angry right now. They are grieving. It
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Speaker 5: is traumatic, lost everything. They are very sad.
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Speaker 9: Now.
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Speaker 5: I know people, I have a friend who actually saved
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Speaker 5: his house with a garden hose. He is very upset
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Speaker 5: because he feels with the water situation and didn't see
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Speaker 5: any firefighters for twelve hours and tried to get through
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Speaker 5: to nine to one one that there should have been
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Speaker 5: more help.
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Speaker 1: I hear you, Courtney, I hear you, Courtney Freil joining
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Speaker 1: us from KTLA regarding the cause of the fire. What
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Speaker 1: we think tonight. There's so many theories, but what do
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Speaker 1: we know? Listen, neighborhoods who lost property.
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Speaker 10: This Firestone firestorm is the big one in magnitude. Hurricane
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Speaker 10: force winds are usually accompanied by rainstorms, but these are
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Speaker 10: hurricane force winds that are combined with extremely dry drought conditions.
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Speaker 10: To provide context, At ten twenty am yesterday, the Palisades
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Speaker 10: fire was at ten acres. Twelve minutes later, it was
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Speaker 10: at two hundred acres.
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Speaker 7: The cause of the fire is unknown at this time.
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Speaker 11: If it turns out that this was an arson fire,
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Speaker 11: any death that relates from an arson fire is considered
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Speaker 11: a murder, and the LASD investigates those types of crimes.
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Speaker 1: Just what I'm getting at. Dave mac joining me in
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Speaker 1: investigative reporter that has covered numerous fires, including wildfires.
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Speaker 3: Dave Matt.
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Speaker 1: Right now, the cause of the fire they are saying
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Speaker 1: is unknown, but well, you know, listen to this, Dave
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Speaker 1: Matt and Courtney free O.
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Speaker 3: Listen.
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Speaker 11: We need to have a short period where we had
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Speaker 11: a low flow state on a very small amount of
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Speaker 11: our hydrants. We had an extreme amount of draw multiple
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Speaker 11: fire engines, warm water multiped.
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Speaker 12: At the same time, we also did have much loss
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Speaker 12: of power which impacted our pressure.
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Speaker 13: That was first, very temporary.
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Speaker 9: Amount of times that first evening.
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Speaker 1: I hope we have no impacts at this time, really,
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Speaker 1: Dave Matt, because that's not what we are hearing on
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Speaker 1: the ground.
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Speaker 3: He just said, and that was Pasadena County.
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Speaker 1: Fire chief, that we did have a loss of power
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Speaker 1: and impacted pressure for a very temporary amount of time
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Speaker 1: the first evening. There are hundreds of reports of the
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Speaker 1: fire hydrants being dry.
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Speaker 3: Dave Matt, what about it?
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Speaker 14: But Nancy is the water and I hate that it's
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Speaker 14: all political, But the water that should be going into
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Speaker 14: the reserves to help in southern California has actually been
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Speaker 14: diverted and is being sent into the ocean in some
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Speaker 14: cases to save some small fish. We have fire hydrants
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Speaker 14: that are actually dry. There is no word. We're not
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Speaker 14: talking no pressure. We're talking dry fire hydrants. Nancy, with
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Speaker 14: home burning people screaming, they go to open up a
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Speaker 14: fire hydrant, nothing comes out. That's because there's no water
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Speaker 14: for them to get because it's been diverted elsewhere.
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Speaker 1: Dry fire hydrants is joining me. Firefighter Arson expert Nicole
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Speaker 1: brought dry fire hydrants.
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Speaker 3: Nicole, have you ever seen that?
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Speaker 9: Absolutely?
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Speaker 5: I have.
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Speaker 9: We've done that. We've seen that before. The issue in
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Speaker 9: this situation is there's a reservoir. It holds one hundred
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Speaker 9: and seventeen million gallons of water.
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Speaker 1: That reservoir has been out.
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Speaker 9: Of commission due to a tear in the cover that
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Speaker 9: is to protect the water. So because it was out
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Speaker 9: of commission, it was unable to feed the the the
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Speaker 9: water to the hydrants.
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Speaker 3: This is why those hold on.
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Speaker 1: Nicole, you are telling me and one of the most
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Speaker 1: arid areas of our country. OK, No, that there are
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Speaker 1: Santa Ana wins, knowing that this is fire season.
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Speaker 3: There was a tear in the cover on one hundred and.
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Speaker 1: Seventeen million gallon reservoir, so we couldn't get at the water.
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Speaker 3: That's a simple yes.
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Speaker 1: No, Nicole's that's correct, afluely correct.
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Speaker 9: It's Clothesbury repairs.
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Speaker 1: Okay.
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Speaker 3: Did nobody know about the tear in the cover?
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Speaker 9: Yes, that's why with Clothesbery repairs.
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Speaker 1: Absolutely, so it was closed because they knew about the
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Speaker 1: tear in the cover but it hadn't been fixed. Well,
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Speaker 1: guess what. There are other allegations as to why there's
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Speaker 1: no water to fight the fires.
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Speaker 3: Listen, Governor, you got a.
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Speaker 9: Second Governor, Gominor, I live here, Governor.
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Speaker 2: Governor Gavin Newsom is forced to answer questions about why
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Speaker 2: he slashed funding for the wildfire and forest resilience by
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Speaker 2: over one hundred million dollars six months before the Palisades
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Speaker 2: fire begins. Cutting the funding of seven programs focused on
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Speaker 2: preventing and battling potential wildfires in the state, coupled with
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Speaker 2: the water system used by the state to fight the
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Speaker 2: wildfires struggled in some places failed under the strain. Rumors
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Speaker 2: of arson and equipment failure arise as investigators search for
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Speaker 2: what started the southern California fires.
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Speaker 1: Arson at the top of many lists as to why
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Speaker 1: some of these fires have started. There are many other theories,
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Speaker 1: but it's hard to ignore eyewitnesses and confessions. Guys, take
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Speaker 1: a listen to La City Fire Chief Kristin Crowley.
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Speaker 8: Are firefighters, the communities firefighters, LAFD firefighters need to be
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Speaker 8: properly funded.
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Speaker 1: We need to be supported so that they can do
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Speaker 1: their jobs.
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Speaker 3: Did they fail you?
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Speaker 8: That is our job and I tell you that's why
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Speaker 8: I'm here. So let's get us what we need so
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Speaker 8: firefighters can do their jobs.
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Speaker 3: Do they fail you?
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Speaker 1: Yes, you're hearing the fire chief Coursy have KTTV Fox eleven.
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Speaker 1: They're in La Orry. Back out to Courtney Friel joining
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Speaker 1: us from KTLA and investigative reporter and anchor Courtney, thank
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Speaker 1: you for being with us. We just heard the fire
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Speaker 1: chief saying that the firefighters need support to do their jobs.
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Speaker 1: Is it true that there were moves to cut the
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Speaker 1: fire departments money?
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Speaker 3: That is absolutely true.
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Speaker 5: And we have had Councilwoman Tracy Parks on our show
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Speaker 5: several times talking about how she has been fighting for
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Speaker 5: funding for the firefighters and they have been asking for
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Speaker 5: years and years. The residents have been asking for more funding.
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Speaker 5: They're basically fighting fires with equipment from ten years ago,
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Speaker 5: and as we know, the fires have just the everything
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Speaker 5: has just gotten so much worse. And we're coming off
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Speaker 5: having these two crazy wet winters and all this brush
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Speaker 5: grew back, and then we've had an eight month drought
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Speaker 5: no rain, so it is just fuel everywhere, areas that
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Speaker 5: haven't burned in fifty years. It's the worst case scenario,
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Speaker 5: and so now they need all these resources and they
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Speaker 5: don't have it. I mean, they are calling people from
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Speaker 5: all across the country to help assist, and that's great,
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Speaker 5: and we are seeing what the wind conditions get better.
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Speaker 5: They've been able to do these air drops and have
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Speaker 5: been successful in trying to get some containment and protecting
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Speaker 5: some homes. But we've got another wind event coming Tuesday
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Speaker 5: through Wednesday with high powerful winds, so who knows what's
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Speaker 5: going to happen.
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Speaker 1: There is joining me from la is doctor Bethany Marshall,
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Speaker 1: renounced psychoanalyst, author of deal Breaker. You can see her
15:34
Speaker 1: on peacock and she's at doctor Bethany Marshall dot com
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Speaker 1: Doctor Bethany Marshall. When you hear the budget to fight
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Speaker 1: fires was intentionally cut by millions and millions of dollars,
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Speaker 1: and the fire hydrants are empty and the water tankers
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Speaker 1: reportedly are empty, what's your response, Nancy.
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Speaker 15: When I hear that, I think of one of my patients,
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Speaker 15: an older male with cancer, who all of a sudden
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Speaker 15: gets an evacuation warning. He walks out his front door
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Speaker 15: and huge flames are roaring down the street in Altadena.
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Speaker 15: This is a cancer patient. He doesn't even have time
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Speaker 15: to grab his medication. He grabs his dog and he
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Speaker 15: drives away. I think of a colleague of mine who
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Speaker 15: is working at the Gay and Lesbian Sounder downtown, did
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Speaker 15: not hear the evacuation warning. He walks to the window
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Speaker 15: and there are flames roaring outside the building. That's what
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Speaker 15: I think about. These people are traumatized, they are terrorized.
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Speaker 15: They almost lost their lives, while officials are dithering about
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Speaker 15: fish and about money and things that are inconsequential in
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Speaker 15: a sense that it reminds me of, you know, Nero
16:49
Speaker 15: fiddling while Rome is burning. There's not a true sense
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Speaker 15: of how fragile life is. Fragile, Our structures are fragile,
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Speaker 15: our communities are. We really have to take care of ourselves,
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Speaker 15: and we need to prioritize danger.
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Speaker 1: You know, doctor Bethany, There's something that I and no
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Speaker 1: other lawyer is allowed to do in a criminal case,
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Speaker 1: and that is ask the jury to put themselves in
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Speaker 1: the shoes of the victims.
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Speaker 3: Control room, please.
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Speaker 1: Play for me the video you were just showing. Doctor
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Speaker 1: Bethany Marshall is joining us from LA and has seen this.
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Speaker 1: Now imagine you standing on the street watching your home burn,
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Speaker 1: wondering if your neighbors, your family, your relatives could be dead.
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Speaker 1: And what a horrific death, possibly the worst death to
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Speaker 1: die by fire. What if this was your home. Joining
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Speaker 1: me right now is a very special guest, Alice Axton
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Speaker 1: is joining us who evacuated, witnessed looters after this horrific event,
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Speaker 1: and they're still looting right now as we go to air.
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Speaker 1: There are groups of marauders looting right now. She is
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Speaker 1: also the inaugural director of USC's Annenberg Center for Climate
18:25
Speaker 1: Journalism and Communications. Miss Axton, thank you for being with us.
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Speaker 13: Thank you for having me today.
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Speaker 16: Nancy, please describe for those viewers, which I hope is
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Speaker 16: practically everybody that have never been part of a fire,
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Speaker 16: never seen what it can do, never had to evacuate,
18:46
Speaker 16: never been a firefighter like our guest Nicole, never picked
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Speaker 16: through the pieces of a.
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Speaker 1: Fire like myself after an arson event. Tell me about
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Speaker 1: your evacuation and what you witnessed.
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Speaker 13: You know, Nancy, it came on really really quick. We
19:04
Speaker 13: received some notifications about a fire. I came upstairs, I
19:07
Speaker 13: looked out my window and I couldn't believe what I saw.
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Speaker 13: Massive flames. Because I'm on a hillside. It's as if
19:13
Speaker 13: they're literally it's almost if they're growing over you, getting
19:18
Speaker 13: ready to consume you. I have a house full of
19:22
Speaker 13: six people. I take care of my disabled mom and
19:25
Speaker 13: my father who has stage four cancer, and I have
19:29
Speaker 13: two kids and a bunch of pets. And I rounded
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Speaker 13: everybody up and said, get your most important things. We
19:35
Speaker 13: got to get out of here. We did our best
19:37
Speaker 13: in short order with whatever ability we had to get
19:42
Speaker 13: out of the house. By the time it was ready
19:44
Speaker 13: to go, I don't know, maybe we had thirty minutes
19:47
Speaker 13: or so. There were a police on my property shouting,
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Speaker 13: you don't have a second longer. Get your things, go,
19:52
Speaker 13: get your family, go, get everybody, go, go go. And
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Speaker 13: we had our gate propped open because we wanted the
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Speaker 13: incredible heroic fire people to be able to get in
20:05
Speaker 13: to save our property. And the police said you have
20:07
Speaker 13: to remove that. There are looters there are looters around here,
20:10
Speaker 13: and they're going to get into your home. So we
20:13
Speaker 13: removed the prop from our gate, and as we were
20:15
Speaker 13: backing out, we saw a car full of men pull
20:19
Speaker 13: up to my neighbor's house and all got up and
20:21
Speaker 13: ran over to my neighbor's door, and we're looking in
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Speaker 13: the windows, and I was so confused at first. I thought,
20:29
Speaker 13: maybe those are helpers. Maybe they're here to help my
20:31
Speaker 13: neighbors and they just don't know them. I realized those
20:35
Speaker 13: were not helpers at all. Those were people who saw
20:39
Speaker 13: an opportunity. And my husband said to the police, Hey,
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Speaker 13: those people don't live here. Go get those people. They
20:48
Speaker 13: don't those people don't live here. And I think of
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Speaker 13: all the aspects of this fire, that might have been
20:54
Speaker 13: what rattled my children the most was the vulnerability of
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Speaker 13: leaving during a fire and then see this sort of
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Speaker 13: thing happened, seeing people ready to take advantage of you.
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Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace. The wildfire is out of
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Speaker 1: control right now, potential arson under investigation after eyewitnesses claim
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Speaker 1: they observe individuals starting fires. In the midst of all
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Speaker 1: of this, the death count is rising. Looters are marauding
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Speaker 1: the area, joining me right now is special guest Alison Exton,
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Speaker 1: who evacuated with her family and as she's driving away,
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Speaker 1: witnesses looters closing in on property. Miss Saxon, thank you
21:51
Speaker 1: for being with us. You mentioned that you heard the news.
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Speaker 1: It all happened so quickly that there was a fire.
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Speaker 1: Did did you hear the news? And what went through
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Speaker 1: your mind?
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Speaker 13: The first thing that happened is my phone started blowing up,
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Speaker 13: many many text messages again to have a big family
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Speaker 13: at my house. It's around dinner time, and I thought
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Speaker 13: what could possibly be going on? And it was others,
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Speaker 13: my friends looking out for me, because that's how we're
22:15
Speaker 13: going to get through this. Everybody, it's our group, chats
22:18
Speaker 13: up for our street, it's our friends. We're going to
22:20
Speaker 13: get through this to our community. And people said, there's
22:22
Speaker 13: a fire in your area, and I thought, oh, okay,
22:25
Speaker 13: I mean there's fires everywhere. And then I looked up
22:28
Speaker 13: on television and sure enough, there was a mountain immediately
22:32
Speaker 13: behind my home. And that's when I ran upstairs to
22:35
Speaker 13: see if I could see anything and saw flames everywhere
22:38
Speaker 13: and realized that we didn't really have a second longer.
22:40
Speaker 13: We needed to get our things together. We were then
22:43
Speaker 13: receiving alerts, those you know, terrible screeching.
22:45
Speaker 3: Alerts really really were Allison. Yes, I cannot imagine.
22:51
Speaker 1: Looking out and seeing flames and knowing I believe right then,
22:57
Speaker 1: I mean the baby albums, the christening gowns, everything, And
23:07
Speaker 1: I woke up in the night thinking about well, I
23:11
Speaker 1: was dreaming about it, and that woke me up.
23:13
Speaker 3: What would I do.
23:14
Speaker 1: I've got my ninety three year old mother at one
23:17
Speaker 1: in the end of the house and I have to
23:19
Speaker 1: help walk, and I have my children at my end
23:22
Speaker 1: of the house and Pats and.
23:25
Speaker 3: What did you do? How did you get them all out?
23:29
Speaker 13: Do you know what, Nancy? You go into producer mode.
23:31
Speaker 13: You do the thing that you do every day with work,
23:33
Speaker 13: except you're doing it at your home. I'm saying to
23:36
Speaker 13: my biggest son, Okay, you help your grandparents.
23:38
Speaker 1: They have trouble.
23:39
Speaker 13: You get them to the car. Once they're in the car,
23:41
Speaker 13: here's the directions to where they're going to. Okay, when
23:44
Speaker 13: you get back in, you're going to come and you're
23:46
Speaker 13: going to take this suitcases to the bottom of the stairs.
23:48
Speaker 13: And I'm just unpacking and directing and packing and directing,
23:51
Speaker 13: and you're just keeping your pool, because it's all you
23:53
Speaker 13: can do if you want your family to survive, it's
23:55
Speaker 13: the only thing you can do. You don't have a choice.
23:57
Speaker 13: You can't lose your mind or your family will die.
24:00
Speaker 1: If you get everybody mobilized, you start leaving, and I
24:03
Speaker 1: want to hear the part about where you're leaving your children.
24:07
Speaker 1: See men jumping out of cars coming to loop.
24:11
Speaker 13: It wasn't even just the men jumping out of cars.
24:13
Speaker 13: There was more than that. There was The smoke was
24:16
Speaker 13: so intense at this time that even walking through our
24:19
Speaker 13: house we had to have like a T shirt over
24:20
Speaker 13: our face. You're choking with smoke and fires on the hill,
24:25
Speaker 13: and now we've got police on our property saying we're
24:28
Speaker 13: pulling you out of the house and you don't have
24:30
Speaker 13: a second longer. And we see these men and a
24:33
Speaker 13: car pull out and they are jumping out of the
24:36
Speaker 13: car simultaneously running up to my neighbor's house looking inside,
24:39
Speaker 13: and the street it is throbbing with people. There are
24:42
Speaker 13: people riding up on scooters that have masks on in groups,
24:47
Speaker 13: and it just feels really, really uneasy. The level of
24:51
Speaker 13: chaos is so high that I don't know that you'd
24:54
Speaker 13: have to have a large, very large police presence to
24:57
Speaker 13: keep something like that under control. And I think the
25:00
Speaker 13: police probably have no clue who some of these people are.
25:02
Speaker 13: They don't know if they're a resident, they don't know
25:05
Speaker 13: if they're a criminal. So you just you feel it
25:08
Speaker 13: feels like chaos to the nth degree.
25:12
Speaker 5: And Nancy, when people hear these stories, this makes them
25:16
Speaker 5: not want to evacuate. So people want to stay and
25:20
Speaker 5: defend their homes if they don't see the flames right
25:23
Speaker 5: in their backyard, because they're afraid of this situation happening.
25:27
Speaker 5: And it's so unfortunate. There is a special place in
25:30
Speaker 5: hell for the looters and of course any arsonists that
25:34
Speaker 5: may have started this fire.
25:35
Speaker 1: The looting is taking over at a time like this, Guys,
25:39
Speaker 1: before I address the looting, joining me right now is
25:42
Speaker 1: a special guest, Bill Walker, joining me, Fire Chief City
25:47
Speaker 1: of Bedford, former fire Chief Santa Monica, Bill Walker, thank
25:53
Speaker 1: you so much for joining us.
25:55
Speaker 11: Bill.
25:56
Speaker 1: I've prosecuted a lot of felony cases. One of the
26:00
Speaker 1: hardest cases to prove and investigate are arson chases, which
26:07
Speaker 1: I didn't ask for it, but became a specialty. Sadly
26:10
Speaker 1: for me, Chief, I want to talk to you about
26:14
Speaker 1: the possibility. Well, it's not just a possibility anymore. I'm
26:18
Speaker 1: hearing a lot about the cause of these fires. What
26:22
Speaker 1: do you make of the drastic slash and the fire budget.
26:27
Speaker 17: Well, you clearly the fire chief put in writing that
26:33
Speaker 17: she felt the budget cuts would affect their ability to
26:36
Speaker 17: prepare and respond to the fires. So, uh, you know
26:42
Speaker 17: what that actual impact is. I think it's something that
26:45
Speaker 17: they'll get to as they as they evaluate it. But
26:49
Speaker 17: in the larger context, fire department budgets have have been,
26:53
Speaker 17: you know, not increased, and the call volume is up
27:00
Speaker 17: and the amount of these large fires is up so
27:02
Speaker 17: much that you know, I think it's very fairer when
27:05
Speaker 17: the fire chief says, we do not have the resources
27:08
Speaker 17: to keep up with the problems that we're faced with.
27:11
Speaker 3: Not all the people there, but some of those guys lit.
27:13
Speaker 9: That fire, and these guys are they're actually the trees
27:17
Speaker 9: caught fire, and then the palms are catching fire.
27:19
Speaker 1: So civilians are now lighting fires.
27:22
Speaker 2: Stanford neuroscientist and podcaster Andrew Huberman claims he saw people
27:26
Speaker 2: starting a fire firsthand in Santa Monica near Crescent Bay Park.
27:31
Speaker 2: New fires broke out in the overnight hours in the
27:33
Speaker 2: Hollywood Hills and Studio City, forcing responders to divide what
27:37
Speaker 2: they had to attack the other fires. Hubermanposted video on
27:41
Speaker 2: x and, writing that people are lighting fires and otherwise
27:44
Speaker 2: non burning urban areas of LA. The posted footage shows
27:48
Speaker 2: a group of men standing around a large fire while
27:51
Speaker 2: a nearby tree is set ablaze. One man is seen
27:54
Speaker 2: filming the incident on his phone, but none of the
27:57
Speaker 2: footage actually shows how the fire started or who did it.
28:00
Speaker 1: You were hearing from the Twitter page at Hebreman Labs
28:04
Speaker 1: joining me Special guests Alison Acton, who had to evacuate
28:08
Speaker 1: and witnessed looters jumping out of their cars, and now
28:12
Speaker 1: joining us. Fire Chief Bill Walker, who fought fires in
28:17
Speaker 1: Santa Monica, the former chief in Santa Monica.
28:22
Speaker 3: Do you hear that? Chief?
28:24
Speaker 1: While the Santa Ana winds are taking their toll, as
28:28
Speaker 1: Courtney Friel told us earlier, making it almost impossible to
28:32
Speaker 1: dump water from above from the sky because the winds
28:36
Speaker 1: would take the water away from the fire. You've got
28:39
Speaker 1: that going on, and now reports of eyewitnesses and even
28:43
Speaker 1: confessions of people starting the Fire's chief.
28:48
Speaker 17: Yeah, it's hard to believe, and it makes you stick
28:51
Speaker 17: to your stomach that you hear it and you know
28:54
Speaker 17: seeing the impact. I tell you, for the people that
28:56
Speaker 17: are there on the ground, that are looking people in
28:59
Speaker 17: the eye, the lot, everything they have in their homes,
29:02
Speaker 17: it's there's there's nothing like the reality of that. And
29:04
Speaker 17: I don't understand how anyone could could be doing that.
29:08
Speaker 17: I just I don't understand it, and it's it's it's
29:11
Speaker 17: heartbreaking to see.
29:12
Speaker 1: You know, Chief Walker, not only have you fought many
29:16
Speaker 1: many fires, you've risen to the ranks of chief and
29:18
Speaker 1: multiple jurisdictions, but you have been a witness on the
29:22
Speaker 1: stand under oath. And these arsonists may think it's just
29:26
Speaker 1: sports starting a fire, but people are dead, Chief, and
29:30
Speaker 1: that equals in my mind, felony, murder charges. You start
29:34
Speaker 1: a fire, that's a felony, and the death occurs, you
29:39
Speaker 1: are up the creek without a paddle. And I am
29:42
Speaker 1: not going to be happy until these people, these perps
29:46
Speaker 1: are apprehended and charged to the max.
29:49
Speaker 17: Chief, Well, we need accountability for people's actions, and I
29:52
Speaker 17: think that that is cover covers a lot of things
29:55
Speaker 17: in our world today, and it'd be nice to SE's
29:57
Speaker 17: some accountability for these people.
29:58
Speaker 3: I guess nobody on the panel.
29:59
Speaker 1: Is good to say it, but does that accountability reach
30:03
Speaker 1: to the governor and the mayor and listen, I don't
30:07
Speaker 1: have a political dog in the fight. You can pay
30:10
Speaker 1: me to run for office, to deny funds for firefighters
30:15
Speaker 1: and for water to fight these fires.
30:18
Speaker 3: The mayor off to some joy trip in Ghana.
30:22
Speaker 1: She made a promise, didn't she, This is a yes no,
30:24
Speaker 1: Courtney Friel, that she would not travel out of the country.
30:28
Speaker 3: Didn't she say that?
30:29
Speaker 13: Yeah?
30:29
Speaker 5: It is very bizarre that she left when we were
30:33
Speaker 5: telling everyone for days that this life threatening storm was coming,
30:38
Speaker 5: and yet she still went. But you know what, there's
30:42
Speaker 5: a change dot org petition with I think almost one
30:45
Speaker 5: hundred thousand signatures right now to try to get her
30:48
Speaker 5: to step down. I don't know if you've seen that
30:50
Speaker 5: meme that everyone here in California is posting. It's a
30:54
Speaker 5: picture of Gavin Newsom and Karen Bastani together with a
30:58
Speaker 5: sign that says fire us.
31:00
Speaker 3: So that is one.
31:02
Speaker 5: Percent conversation that is being had here among residents.
31:06
Speaker 1: And you know what, Cordney Friel, as you stated at
31:08
Speaker 1: the get go all, that's a political cesspool. There's really
31:13
Speaker 1: no way to put it I'll let the voters of
31:15
Speaker 1: California deal with that. What I know how to do
31:19
Speaker 1: is investigate and try an arson case. Hey, Chief, Chief
31:24
Speaker 1: Bill Walker with us former chief in Santa Monica's bought
31:27
Speaker 1: a lot of fires. Chief, you joined us after Alison
31:31
Speaker 1: Axton told what happened to her. Allison, could you describe
31:36
Speaker 1: for the Chief what you and your family endured? Starting
31:40
Speaker 1: with all your phone blowing up with texts.
31:42
Speaker 13: Sure, I was sitting in the living room with my
31:45
Speaker 13: family and I couldn't figure out what was going on.
31:47
Speaker 13: My phone was blowing up, looked down and saw that
31:50
Speaker 13: there was a fire at the park immediately of both
31:54
Speaker 13: my home.
31:55
Speaker 12: And ran upstairs, looked out the window, saw planed my
32:00
Speaker 12: bedroom window, and I grabbed my husband and said to
32:03
Speaker 12: him quietly, we need to make a plan to get
32:05
Speaker 12: our family out of this house right now. I don't
32:08
Speaker 12: think we have much time, and so we did. We
32:10
Speaker 12: packed up our two kids, three dogs, bearded dragon, and
32:14
Speaker 12: my two disabled elderly parents. We got a few things
32:18
Speaker 12: out and we were amongst the lucky ones. We've experienced
32:23
Speaker 12: so much community, which is something that I want.
32:26
Speaker 13: To really emphasize. There's a lot of great things going
32:29
Speaker 13: on in Los Angeles right now. People coming together, willing
32:32
Speaker 13: to shelter, help out what you need.
32:34
Speaker 3: There's a lot of that.
32:35
Speaker 13: But there's the nefarious activity too. There's the guys riding
32:38
Speaker 13: up the scooters on our streets. One of my neighbors
32:41
Speaker 13: had a man confront him who had a gun in
32:43
Speaker 13: his waistband cars with people driving up who don't live
32:47
Speaker 13: on this small dead end street behind it, trying to
32:51
Speaker 13: take advance.
32:52
Speaker 1: I can hardly break in what you're saying, doctor Bethany,
32:58
Speaker 1: who joining us by the way from La Doctor Bethany,
33:03
Speaker 1: the trauma of seeing a fire is bad enough. I
33:07
Speaker 1: can still remember every time I went through an arson scene.
33:11
Speaker 1: I'll never forget it. Everything nothing, nothing left, and people did.
33:17
Speaker 1: But doctor Bethany, the added insult of looters showing up
33:23
Speaker 1: looking at fire victims with guns.
33:25
Speaker 3: In their hands.
33:26
Speaker 1: I don't understand the mindset, Doctor Bethany.
33:29
Speaker 15: Nancy, it's almost it's unimaginable. And talk about a term
33:33
Speaker 15: in my field is complex trauma, when one trauma is
33:36
Speaker 15: layered on another and layered on another. Nancy, I think
33:39
Speaker 15: there are many people in our city who are latently homicile,
33:44
Speaker 15: latently arsonists, and latently larcenous. They want to steal, and
33:49
Speaker 15: when a fire is set ablaze, all of a sudden,
33:52
Speaker 15: it brings these criminals out of the woodwork. And when
33:56
Speaker 15: we think of arson, nancy, it's a compulsion people.
33:59
Speaker 3: Men and women.
34:01
Speaker 15: Women do it too, who want to commit arson. They
34:04
Speaker 15: think and think and think about is that they're very sneaky.
34:07
Speaker 15: They try to gain proximity to fires, they try to
34:10
Speaker 15: become firefighters, and once a fire is set, it's very
34:14
Speaker 15: exciting to them, so they'll go out and set more.
34:18
Speaker 15: So our city is at risk from arsonists, it's at
34:21
Speaker 15: risk from looters.
34:22
Speaker 1: Hold on, Bethany, I'm going to go to the chief
34:24
Speaker 1: on what you just said. Chief Walker, former fire chief
34:29
Speaker 1: in Santa Monica. When you hear that that people set
34:35
Speaker 1: these fires out of some sort of excitement, you have
34:39
Speaker 1: pulled the dead bodies out of homes, out of fire scenes.
34:45
Speaker 3: How do you respond to something like that.
34:47
Speaker 17: Well, you know, she's felling the truth. Unfortunately, it really
34:51
Speaker 17: is an illness, a mental illness that people have, and
34:56
Speaker 17: it's terrible and it's been that way for a long time.
35:00
Speaker 17: You're exactly why people try to get into the fire service.
35:02
Speaker 17: They try and get close to it, and we've had
35:05
Speaker 17: some terrible examples of that over the years, and it
35:09
Speaker 17: makes you just feel, if it's even possible, feel worse
35:12
Speaker 17: worse to know that sometimes these people get close to
35:14
Speaker 17: you and they're doing those things.
35:21
Speaker 1: Crime Stores with Nancy Gray. Chief Bill Walker, I know
35:31
Speaker 1: you're sitting down right now. You may need to lay
35:33
Speaker 1: down when you hear this.
35:35
Speaker 3: Listen.
35:35
Speaker 4: When I was out there in the Malibu area, I
35:39
Speaker 4: saw a gentleman I looked like a firefighter, and I
35:42
Speaker 4: asked him if he was okay because he was sitting down.
35:45
Speaker 4: I didn't realize we had him in handcuffs.
35:47
Speaker 1: We were turning them over.
35:48
Speaker 4: To lapd because he was dressed like a fireman and
35:52
Speaker 4: he was not. He just got caught burglarizing a home.
35:56
Speaker 4: There were three individuals in a vehicle. They were stopped.
36:00
Speaker 4: They were where they weren't supposed to be. One head on,
36:03
Speaker 4: fire jacket and a fire hat, and he was additionally
36:07
Speaker 4: arrested for impersonating a firefighter. We have people who will
36:11
Speaker 4: go to all ends to be able to do what
36:13
Speaker 4: it is they want to do to exploit the victims
36:16
Speaker 4: of this tragedy.
36:17
Speaker 1: Chief Walker, Looters, criminals wearing fire outfits wearing fire fighter
36:27
Speaker 1: out sins.
36:29
Speaker 3: Can you believe that? I feel sick?
36:31
Speaker 17: Well? I mean, these folks are there. I don't like
36:34
Speaker 17: the term, but they're somewhat sophisticated in their pros. Sometimes
36:37
Speaker 17: it's to organize. It's thoughtful, and they go out there
36:39
Speaker 17: to do bad things. And I wasn't senta monoicaly at
36:43
Speaker 17: civil unrest and that was well coordinated and planned and
36:47
Speaker 17: it was terrible. And it's just mind blowing to see
36:50
Speaker 17: people that.
36:51
Speaker 3: That's what they do.
36:52
Speaker 17: And you know, for people don't think that way. It's
36:55
Speaker 17: really hard for me and for most people like you.
36:57
Speaker 17: That's a wrapper heads around it, but it's it's out there,
36:59
Speaker 17: and it's it seems to becoming more and more prevalent.
37:02
Speaker 1: Imagine the panic of being trapped in a room in
37:05
Speaker 1: a home that's getting smokier and smokier and you can
37:09
Speaker 1: feel and hear the blaze closing in and there's no
37:14
Speaker 1: way out, the fires, raging looters closing in, Politicians blaming
37:21
Speaker 1: each other and pointing the fingers.
37:23
Speaker 3: What good is that? Guys?
37:26
Speaker 1: I want to go to doctor Kendall Crowns, joining US
37:29
Speaker 1: renowned chief medical Examiner, Doctor Kendall's crowns. What is it
37:35
Speaker 1: like to die of smoke inhalation? Granted, I mean I
37:39
Speaker 1: don't know. Is it worse to die of smoke inhalation
37:43
Speaker 1: or to actually burn alive? I don't know, But the
37:47
Speaker 1: smoke inhalation, my experience, seems to be a larger cod
37:52
Speaker 1: cause of death when fires occur. What is that like?
37:56
Speaker 6: So, when the black smoke is filling your home, it's
37:59
Speaker 6: very high. You're having to breathe it in because the
38:02
Speaker 6: oxygen is disappearing, basically being replaced by this black smoke.
38:06
Speaker 6: It's hot, It burns your throat, it burns your eyes.
38:11
Speaker 6: You're of course experienced in the heat. As you get
38:13
Speaker 6: more and more carbon monoxide coming in, you become more
38:16
Speaker 6: and more confused. You begin getting severe headaches, you start
38:20
Speaker 6: vomiting profusely, and then eventually you'll pass out.
38:24
Speaker 3: Now, of course, if the.
38:26
Speaker 6: Fire is also coming in at the same time, that
38:28
Speaker 6: will burn and that causes extreme pain as well. On
38:32
Speaker 6: top of the smoke inhlations.
38:33
Speaker 1: I'm just thinking what these victims have lived through. I'm
38:39
Speaker 1: thinking of the victims that didn't live their families to
38:43
Speaker 1: Nicole brought joining US firefighter Arson expert. Have you ever
38:48
Speaker 1: had to retrieve a dead body out of a fire scene.
38:53
Speaker 9: Absolutely, I've done that several times and it's probably one
38:56
Speaker 9: of the most gruesome sites you've ever seen. It's very disheartening.
39:01
Speaker 9: It's a very hard thing to do, especially when you
39:06
Speaker 9: have family members standing around. Those people have family and
39:11
Speaker 9: it's a very disheartening situation. Very hard, very hard for
39:16
Speaker 9: us as firefighters because we see those members and we
39:19
Speaker 9: see those dead bodies as our own family members. So
39:22
Speaker 9: it does leave a lasting impression on us equally.
39:25
Speaker 1: And Nicole Brock, what is your message to your fellow
39:29
Speaker 1: firefighters tonight?
39:31
Speaker 9: Stay strong. This is a brutal situation that you're up against.
39:38
Speaker 9: It's one that's going to leave a lasting impression. I've
39:41
Speaker 9: been so impressed with how LA Fire Department handle their employees,
39:47
Speaker 9: their members.
39:49
Speaker 1: I look to you all all the time.
39:52
Speaker 9: I always use LA Fire Department as a reference guide
39:55
Speaker 9: because your fire chief, your fire administration does such a
39:59
Speaker 9: great job with assisting you all on mental health side,
40:03
Speaker 9: on just supporting you as a department. They value you.
40:09
Speaker 9: I know that you're up against a long, hard climb,
40:13
Speaker 9: and all I say to you tonight is to stay resilient,
40:17
Speaker 9: Stay brave, continue to do the work that you signed
40:22
Speaker 9: up for in everyone. Everyone has so much respect for
40:26
Speaker 9: what you're doing. I pray for you each night. We
40:30
Speaker 9: all pray for you each night, each day, each moment.
40:35
Speaker 9: Continue Please to stay resilient.
40:39
Speaker 1: If you can give to help the victims of the
40:42
Speaker 1: California wildfires, here is a way to do it. Dial
40:46
Speaker 1: the Red Cross eight hundred six seven five five seven
40:51
Speaker 1: ninety nine, repeat eight hundred six seven five five seven
40:56
Speaker 1: nine nine, or text Red Cross to nine zero nine
41:02
Speaker 1: nine nine.
41:04
Speaker 3: Or try umcore.
41:07
Speaker 1: You m as a Methodist co R providing immediate relief
41:14
Speaker 1: like food, essential supplies, and support for volunteer efforts. Tonight,
41:22
Speaker 1: re remember and pray for American heroes, the California fire fighters,
41:30
Speaker 1: who have given and are giving. They're all to fight
41:35
Speaker 1: the fires and to save lives. Nancy Gray signing off,
41:42
Speaker 1: goodbye friend,