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Tax Strategies for Physicians with Amanda Han · Physicians and Properties

• 0:00
  Dr. Amanda: if you're married and you're both working full time this year, still, then maybe consider short term rentals from a tax perspective.
• 0:06
  Dr. Amanda: but maybe the goal is that you guys just want to build like a big real estate portfolio.
• 0:11
  Dr. Alex: Welcome to the Physicians and Properties Podcast.
• 0:15
  Dr. Alex: The show where we teach you how investing in real estate can give you the freedom to practice medicine and live life how you want.
• 0:24
  Dr. Alex: Doctor! Doctor! Doctor! Doctor! Doctor! Now, here's your host, Dr.
• 0:30
  Dr. Alex: Alex Schlo.
• 0:35
  Dr. Alex: Hello, everyone.
• 0:35
  Dr. Alex: Thanks for listening to another episode of the physicians and properties podcast.
• 0:40
  Dr. Alex: This episode is going to save you thousands of dollars.
• 0:43
  Dr. Alex: You heard that correctly.
• 0:44
  Dr. Alex: Thousands of dollars.
• 0:45
  Dr. Alex: Today, we are talking about a topic that to be fair, people don't tend to like talking about or listening to, and that is taxes.
• 0:52
  Dr. Alex: But I promise you, if you stick through this episode, you were going to learn so much.
• 0:56
  Dr. Alex: And if you just take one or two of these tax strategies and use them, you're going to save thousands of dollars in taxes.
• 1:03
  Dr. Alex: That's more money in your pocket, more money you can spend to invest in other rental properties or spend to invest doing things that you love doing.
• 1:09
  Dr. Alex: Our guest today is Amanda Hahn.
• 1:11
  Dr. Alex: She's a CPA and tax strategist who specializes in helping people use real estate in order to save massive amounts of money in taxes.
• 1:19
  Dr. Alex: She is the author of a highly rated book, tax strategies for savvy real estate investors, as well as an advanced tax strategies book as well, that is published through bigger pockets.
• 1:29
  Dr. Alex: Which is an incredible resource.
• 1:31
  Dr. Alex: She's also been featured in numerous publications for Forbes magazine, money magazine, Google talks, CNBC, spark money, talk radio.
• 1:40
  Dr. Alex: And she's been a guest on the bigger pockets podcast episode 370, which is where I first heard her in that episode.
• 1:46
  Dr. Alex: I heard her talking about taxes of Brandon Turner and David green, and she made taxes sound fun.
• 1:52
  Dr. Alex: And engaging.
• 1:52
  Dr. Alex: And it was the first podcast, honestly, in regards to taxes that I haven't turned off immediately or skipped to the next episode.
• 1:59
  Dr. Alex: So trust me, you're not going to want to skip this one.
• 2:02
  Dr. Alex: Without any further ado, let's get started with today's podcast with Amanda Hahn.
• 2:06
  Dr. Alex: Hey everyone.
• 2:06
  Dr. Alex: Welcome to another episode of the physicians and properties podcast.
• 2:09
  Dr. Alex: Today we have with us, Amanda Han she is a tax expert in this episode is going to save you a lot of money.
• 2:15
  Dr. Alex: So stay tuned.
• 2:16
  Dr. Alex: If you think, Hey, taxes are boring.
• 2:18
  Dr. Alex: This episode is going to change that.
• 2:19
  Dr. Alex: So we'll go ahead and get started.
• 2:20
  Dr. Alex: Amanda, how are you doing today?
• 2:22
  Dr. Amanda: I am doing wonderful.
• 2:23
  Dr. Amanda: Thank you so much for having me.
• 2:25
  Dr. Alex: Awesome.
• 2:26
  Dr. Alex: Thank you so much for coming on.
• 2:27
  Dr. Alex: I appreciate, working with your busy schedule to get on the show here.
• 2:30
  Dr. Alex: I think it's going to add a lot of value to folks.
• 2:32
  Dr. Alex: Appreciate that.
• 2:33
  Dr. Amanda: I'm always excited to talk about taxes and tax strategies and, physicians are, some of the people paying the highest taxes.
• 2:41
  Dr. Amanda: So very important topic.
• 2:42
  Dr. Alex: absolutely.
• 2:43
  Dr. Alex: I think it's a topic that, physicians tend to avoid because we don't understand and we don't like under not understanding things.
• 2:49
  Dr. Alex: And so I think this will be really helpful for a lot of people and selfishly, I think will be really helpful for myself as well.
• 2:54
  Dr. Alex: So thank you very much for coming on and talking with us.
• 2:57
  Dr. Alex: Thank you so much.
• 2:57
  Dr. Alex: Before we get started, do you just kind of mind sharing a little bit of your backstory and everything you're doing at Keystone CPA and the books and all this good stuff?
• 3:05
  Dr. Amanda: what I typically tell people is I am a CPA by day and a real estate investor by night.
• 3:12
  Dr. Amanda: So I think like a lot of people in our audience, my passion really is, In tax planning.
• 3:16
  Dr. Amanda: And so what our firm does is we help real estate investors nationwide on how to use real estate to also, build wealth as well as to save on taxes.
• 3:25
  Dr. Amanda: And, my background actually is.
• 3:28
  Dr. Amanda: that I started out at one of the big four public accounting firms, and I happened to work in their real estate specialty group.
• 3:35
  Dr. Amanda: and that just means that I worked with a lot of the, super wealthy investors and large real estate investment companies.
• 3:43
  Dr. Amanda: but even though that that was my job, I never actually thought to invest in real estate myself until I read.
• 3:51
  Dr. Amanda: Robert Kiyosaki's Rich Dad, Poor Dad book, like many people, who are with us today.
• 3:56
  Dr. Amanda: and so it was really interesting.
• 3:57
  Dr. Amanda: I'm actually also the third generation of real estate investors.
• 4:00
  Dr. Amanda: So my grandparents invested in real estate when they immigrated to the U.
• 4:03
  Dr. Amanda: S.
• 4:03
  Dr. Amanda: and then my parents dabbled in real estate.
• 4:05
  Dr. Amanda: So, yeah, third generation of real estate investors, CPA for real estate investors, and I never thought I would invest in real estate until I read Robert Kiyosaki's book.
• 4:15
  Dr. Amanda: and that's kind of how my husband and I got started into real estate investing ourselves to,
• 4:20
  Dr. Alex: that's awesome.
• 4:21
  Dr. Alex: What was it from Robert Kiyosaki's book, rich dad, poor dad, that kind of, impacted you in such a way to get started investing in real estate?
• 4:28
  Dr. Amanda: I just think it was eye opening to, look at.
• 4:33
  Dr. Amanda: Putting money to work for you, I always tell people there's a joke when, you know, in his book, Robert Kiyosaki talks about rich dad, poor dad, there were two different people in his life for me.
• 4:43
  Dr. Amanda: I had the same person.
• 4:44
  Dr. Amanda: So my dad was the rich dad and the poor dad, because on one hand, he was very entrepreneurial, helping with family businesses.
• 4:51
  Dr. Amanda: Like my grandparents did real estate, but they never taught me to do that.
• 4:54
  Dr. Amanda: You know, I was always taught to like, Get good grades, get to a good college, get a stable job.
• 5:00
  Dr. Amanda: And you know, what's job is more stable than being an accountant, right?
• 5:03
  Dr. Amanda: so it's really interesting for me to have to wait from the book to learn about, how do we put our money to work, and being able to build that, you know, that quadrant, in your financial profile.
• 5:15
  Dr. Alex: Yeah, absolutely.
• 5:16
  Dr. Alex: Assets and liabilities.
• 5:18
  Dr. Alex: That book has just changed so many, folks mindset and just impacted so many people, including my own.
• 5:23
  Dr. Alex: That was also partly how I got my journey started in real estate as well was reading rich dad, poor dad.
• 5:29
  Dr. Alex: So if you're listening to this and you haven't read it.
• 5:30
  Dr. Alex: What a great springboard to get started.
• 5:32
  Dr. Alex: You absolutely should.
• 5:33
  Dr. Alex: and I think a big component of that is also like, how much money are you keeping?
• 5:37
  Dr. Alex: And of course, this is tax strategy and certainly physicians and other real estate investors are giving uncle Sam a large amount of money and, you are really good at helping us keep our money.
• 5:47
  Dr. Alex: So, if I was a physician, just getting started investing in real estate, what are some things that you would tell me, or what are some benefits of tax strategy that you think would be helpful for folks?
• 5:56
  Dr. Amanda: what's really interesting is.
• 5:58
  Dr. Amanda: That there are studies that's shown that many Americans overpay in their taxes every year.
• 6:04
  Dr. Amanda: And I think one of the main reasons that people overpay is something you mentioned earlier.
• 6:08
  Dr. Amanda: You know, physicians are just medical professionals or people in general, actually not loving taxes, right?
• 6:14
  Dr. Amanda: People tax is sort of like a dirty word.
• 6:17
  Dr. Amanda: Bad word.
• 6:17
  Dr. Amanda: Nobody likes to talk about it.
• 6:19
  Dr. Amanda: We don't want to think about it has very negative connotations because we don't understand it.
• 6:23
  Dr. Amanda: It seems kind of scary.
• 6:24
  Dr. Amanda: But really, if you are doing tax planning correctly, actually, the tax code is filled with loopholes, benefits, strategies that are designed to help you reduce your taxes when you're doing the right things that the government incentivizes us to do.
• 6:41
  Dr. Amanda: so it's having that small mind shift now.
• 6:43
  Dr. Amanda: All of us file tax returns, right?
• 6:44
  Dr. Amanda: Whether it's, you know, you going to a CPA or you even doing it yourself on triple tax.
• 6:49
  Dr. Amanda: That's just something we all do.
• 6:50
  Dr. Amanda: If you make money, either you're paying tax, you're filing tax returns, but not many people actually do tax planning.
• 6:57
  Dr. Amanda: And so it's really important, I think, if you're serious about.
• 7:00
  Dr. Amanda: Reducing taxes and building wealth faster.
• 7:04
  Dr. Amanda: it's really important to get involved in tax planning tax planning.
• 7:08
  Dr. Amanda: I think in its simplest form is really just meeting with your tax advisor during the year or throughout the year so that, they can help you when you're making decisions with respect to your work or your business or your investments.
• 7:21
  Dr. Amanda: Taking a look at what are the best ways to implement those decisions so that you are maximizing your tax savings, right?
• 7:29
  Dr. Amanda: It doesn't mean you have to become a CPA or learn all about the tax code.
• 7:33
  Dr. Amanda: You just have to have that line of communication open with your tax advisor before you do a major financial changes so that they can help guide you accordingly to get the best benefit.
• 7:45
  Dr. Alex: Yeah, absolutely.
• 7:45
  Dr. Alex: I think, you know, tech strategy and a tech strategist is a great person to have on your team.
• 7:50
  Dr. Alex: You know, I'm, I'm a primary care physician.
• 7:52
  Dr. Alex: So oftentimes I'm referring people out to different specialists and you guys are just 1 of those specialists that, that we need to refer out to and get help on.
• 8:00
  Dr. Alex: We're not going to understand the tax code and the tax code is absolutely enormous for a reason.
• 8:05
  Dr. Alex: But I think it's interesting what you said.
• 8:06
  Dr. Alex: The, yeah.
• 8:07
  Dr. Alex: The government wants to incentivize us to own businesses, to buy real estate, to do these things that the government wants us to do.
• 8:13
  Dr. Alex: So they give us some of these tax strategies and ways to help with that what are some things that we should look out for or questions that we should ask if we're looking for a, CPA who is going to be helpful or has investment experience?
• 8:27
  Dr. Amanda: when we're interviewing CPAs, I think it's really important to ask good questions.
• 8:33
  Dr. Amanda: oftentimes people will, when they're interviewing a CPA, they'll say, Hey, do you have any investors?
• 8:38
  Dr. Amanda: Do you work with any real estate investors?
• 8:40
  Dr. Amanda: and the answer is almost always going to be yes, right?
• 8:43
  Dr. Amanda: Because we all have at least one client who has some kind of rental income.
• 8:47
  Dr. Amanda: so you really want to ask Better questions.
• 8:49
  Dr. Amanda: if you are someone who is getting into, short term rentals as an example, right?
• 8:55
  Dr. Amanda: You want to ask like, Hey, tell me some strategies that you use with your short term rental investors and it kind of let them shine and discuss what are some of the things like, are they using those key terms?
• 9:05
  Dr. Amanda: if they don't really know what short term rental means, then that's probably a sign that it's not the best person.
• 9:10
  Dr. Amanda: You know, same thing when it comes to like medical professionals, because we actually have A pretty decent percentage of our clients who are medical professionals, and, you know, because a lot of medical professionals want to do real estate, right?
• 9:22
  Dr. Amanda: To offset taxes.
• 9:22
  Dr. Amanda: So that's another question to, you know, let them look.
• 9:24
  Dr. Amanda: Hey, I'm a physician.
• 9:26
  Dr. Amanda: I generally get these types of income.
• 9:28
  Dr. Amanda: what kind of strategies do you work?
• 9:30
  Dr. Amanda: With your clients on who have similar profiles, who are also physicians with these types of income or these types of issues.
• 9:36
  Dr. Amanda: so I think asking better and open ended questions like that will help you to gauge, whether they actually are, very specialized in the area where you need, or is it just a generalist who kind of, is saying, Yeah, you know, I do real estate because I have 1 or 2 rental property clients.
• 9:54
  Dr. Alex: Yeah, absolutely.
• 9:55
  Dr. Alex: Those are great questions to ask.
• 9:57
  Dr. Alex: What are some ways that real estate can benefit you as, an investor in regards to taxes?
• 10:04
  Dr. Amanda: I think real estate is actually one of the best asset classes, when it comes to taxes.
• 10:09
  Dr. Amanda: And this is probably one of the reasons why you see most wealthy individuals will have real estate in their portfolio, right?
• 10:17
  Dr. Amanda: Regardless of whether their wealth is from, you know, a startup business in tech or a medical professional, or even like an entertainer, someone in the entertainment industry or the fine arts.
• 10:27
  Dr. Amanda: Oftentimes people when they get to higher net worth or higher income, they start to look at real estate as an investment vehicle.
• 10:35
  Dr. Amanda: One of the main reasons is because real estate is one of those very few asset classes where you get to take depreciation on the asset itself, prior to you selling it.
• 10:46
  Dr. Amanda: So, for example, if you invested in stocks, you invested$50 000 in stocks, you're not going to get to write that off.
• 10:52
  Dr. Amanda: You're not going to get to depreciate it, right?
• 10:54
  Dr. Amanda: It's just kind of an investment.
• 10:55
  Dr. Amanda: And hopefully you're getting gains and dividends from that.
• 10:58
  Dr. Amanda: But really, you don't get to write off that 50, 000 investment until you sell those stocks.
• 11:03
  Dr. Amanda: Now.
• 11:04
  Dr. Amanda: When it comes to real estate, when you invest money in real estate, if you bought a rental property for, you know, 400, 000, you can take depreciation on that purchase price of the building over time.
• 11:17
  Dr. Amanda: And this is true regardless of whether the property goes up in value or goes down in value.
• 11:22
  Dr. Amanda: And so depreciation is such a huge benefit because for all real estate investors.
• 11:27
  Dr. Amanda: That is a paper write off that we can use to offset taxes?
• 11:30
  Dr. Amanda: from the rental income.
• 11:32
  Dr. Amanda: And if you're someone who, again, medical professionals, typically are of higher income, higher income generally means higher tax rates, which means higher taxes.
• 11:40
  Dr. Amanda: And so for people with higher tax rates, if now I can start to make.
• 11:44
  Dr. Amanda: Other income that I'm paying low or no taxes on that's always a really great way to build wealth.
• 11:52
  Dr. Alex: absolutely.
• 11:53
  Dr. Alex: That was a question.
• 11:53
  Dr. Alex: We got asked a lot.
• 11:54
  Dr. Alex: I reached out to the community to see.
• 11:57
  Dr. Alex: Hey, what questions do you have for Amanda?
• 11:59
  Dr. Alex: in regards to taxes and 1 that came up a lot was depreciation and how that can be useful.
• 12:04
  Dr. Alex: Another 1 in regard to that, that comes with that is a cost segregation study and some questions surrounding that.
• 12:09
  Dr. Alex: what are some benefits to doing a cost segregation study on a property?
• 12:14
  Dr. Amanda: well, so, depreciation, like I said, it's going to get to.
• 12:17
  Dr. Amanda: Depreciate the kind of the purchase price of the building over time, and so depending on the type of property, usually, if it's residential, you can write it off over 27.
• 12:25
  Dr. Amanda: 5 years before talking about commercial real estate, you can depreciate it over 39 years, and that just means, you know, slow and steady.
• 12:33
  Dr. Amanda: You're getting a little bit of a paper loss per year.
• 12:36
  Dr. Amanda: the concept of cost segregation, You know.
• 12:38
  Dr. Amanda: Otherwise known as accelerated depreciation is basically saying, you know, instead of writing off the building over 27 and a half years, what if I broke out the components of that building?
• 12:51
  Dr. Amanda: Right?
• 12:51
  Dr. Amanda: And if I said, okay, this building is actually made up of 10, 000 of cabinetry, 20, 000 of flooring.
• 12:58
  Dr. Amanda: And so these different components, and with those other components, we can write them off faster.
• 13:04
  Dr. Amanda: So maybe instead of 27 and a half years, Part of that I can write off immediately or over five years or over seven years.
• 13:11
  Dr. Amanda: And so that's where you see people with bigger benefits.
• 13:14
  Dr. Amanda: You know, if I buy a rental property?
• 13:15
  Dr. Amanda: for 100, 000, maybe I might get a 20, 000 depreciation upfront if I'm accelerating part of this.
• 13:23
  Dr. Amanda: and so again, if you're someone with higher income and you have a lot of rental income.
• 13:29
  Dr. Amanda: Doing a cost segregation could be very helpful if that could be used to wipe out the taxes from your rental.
• 13:35
  Dr. Alex: Taking that, tax depreciation and ahead of time and getting that can then help you spur on your real estate investing as well going forward.
• 13:42
  Dr. Alex: And that's another way that folks are able to kind of do that stack as well.
• 13:46
  Dr. Alex: So cost segregation studies can be really helpful.
• 13:48
  Dr. Alex: We have one pending on one of our short term rentals right now.
• 13:51
  Dr. Alex: Can't wait for it.
• 13:51
  Dr. Alex: for that to come back and, and put to use the tax benefits of that going forward.
• 13:56
  Dr. Alex: So definitely a great option for folks, that kind of ties into the short term rental kind of loophole.
• 14:03
  Dr. Alex: that was the next question that came up all the time as well was what's the short term rental tax loophole, loophole in quotes, do you mind, kind of explaining that to folks that are listening?
• 14:13
  Dr. Amanda: I think before we talk about the short term rental loophole, maybe I'll take a moment to explain, the, the long term rental, investment treatment.
• 14:21
  Dr. Amanda: So if you're someone investing in long term rental properties and you have, you are of higher income, okay, so higher income for this purpose, we're talking about someone who makes over 150, 000.
• 14:31
  Dr. Amanda: So if you make over 150, 000.
• 14:34
  Dr. Amanda: And you invest in long term rentals.
• 14:36
  Dr. Amanda: if you're using these advanced strategies, like, you know, maximizing your write offs and taking accelerated depreciation, odds are, you're going to create a tax loss, right?
• 14:45
  Dr. Amanda: You're strategically creating a loss for the tax return on the rental side.
• 14:50
  Dr. Amanda: now, if you're someone with higher income.
• 14:52
  Dr. Amanda: Then those losses only offset taxes from rental income.
• 14:56
  Dr. Amanda: They don't offset taxes from like your W2 income or income from your other non rental related business.
• 15:02
  Dr. Amanda: unless if you or your spouse is a real estate professional.
• 15:06
  Dr. Amanda: So there are a couple different ways to be a real estate professional, but one of the main ones that's I think hardest for a lot of people to meet Is spending, you have to spend more time in real estate than your job.
• 15:15
  Dr. Amanda: And so if you're a single guy, who's a doctor, and you're working full time, very difficult for you to be a real estate professional, right?
• 15:22
  Dr. Amanda: unless, or if you're married and you're both working full time again, very difficult, but if you're.
• 15:26
  Dr. Amanda: You know, married, and you have a spouse who's not working full time, then it could be possible that they are a real estate professional.
• 15:32
  Dr. Amanda: The benefit of being a real estate professional is then there are long term rental losses can be used to offset taxes from not just the rental income, but also W2 and other income as well.
• 15:43
  Dr. Amanda: So when you hear people say, Hey, I made 200, 000 of income last year, and I paid zero taxes.
• 15:49
  Dr. Amanda: Odds are they're using this real estate professional strategy, right?
• 15:52
  Dr. Amanda: Either they or their spouse is a real estate professional.
• 15:55
  Dr. Amanda: But like I said, it is a big hurdle for people to overcome if they're working a full time job, because one of the requirements is you have to have more time in real estate.
• 16:04
  Dr. Amanda: And this is kind of where the concept of short term rental loophole comes in, because if you're someone who invests in short term rentals, you actually don't have to be a real estate professional.
• 16:16
  Dr. Amanda: You could be able to use your rental losses against your W 2 income.
• 16:21
  Dr. Amanda: Even if short term rental investing is sort of just like a side hustle for you.
• 16:26
  Dr. Amanda: So that's kind of the origin it's not a technical term.
• 16:28
  Dr. Amanda: It's just something like CPAs.
• 16:29
  Dr. Amanda: We call it a loophole because there's sort of no rhyme or reason why that is.
• 16:33
  Dr. Amanda: But, that's kind of the way that the IRS is looking at it is short term rentals.
• 16:37
  Dr. Amanda: You don't have to be a real estate professional.
• 16:39
  Dr. Amanda: You could use the rental losses against W2 income as long as you meet material participation hours.
• 16:45
  Dr. Alex: well, thanks for making that distinction.
• 16:46
  Dr. Alex: I think that's really important and really hard for physicians to, to get rep status.
• 16:50
  Dr. Alex: I've been trying to convince my wife to become a real estate professional, so we can write off my W2 and, have been unsuccessful.
• 16:57
  Dr. Alex: So when she hears this, maybe that'll change your mind a little bit, but we'll see.
• 17:00
  Dr. Alex: I think, you know, my understanding of the short term rental loophole is that you have to, yeah, the material.
• 17:05
  Dr. Alex: Participation is really important.
• 17:07
  Dr. Alex: And my understanding is you have to be the one who's spending the majority of the time operating or managing that short term rental or spending the most amount of time, you know, cleaning it, operating it, managing it, et cetera.
• 17:18
  Dr. Alex: is there anything that we're missing in regards to that?
• 17:21
  Dr. Amanda: so material participation, there's actually seven different ways to qualify, but we can touch on three of them.
• 17:25
  Dr. Amanda: There's three that are kind of the most recurring ones that we see.
• 17:29
  Dr. Amanda: So, and you only have to meet one of them.
• 17:31
  Dr. Amanda: Okay.
• 17:32
  Dr. Amanda: So the first one, and the one we typically recommend our clients try to meet is 500 hours of material participation.
• 17:39
  Dr. Amanda: So that just 500 hours on the short term rental property itself.
• 17:43
  Dr. Amanda: So that could be you staging it.
• 17:44
  Dr. Amanda: Dealing with Airbnb, dealing with the guests, dealing with the cleaning crew, or even managing and cleaning the property yourself.
• 17:51
  Dr. Amanda: Once you have 500 hours, then you don't have to worry about anything else.
• 17:56
  Dr. Amanda: Beyond that.
• 17:57
  Dr. Amanda: and for this purposes, the 500 hours.
• 18:00
  Dr. Amanda: Is a combination of the hours of both you as well as your spouse, if you're married.
• 18:05
  Dr. Amanda: Okay, so if you're both working on the property, both of your time can count for the 500 hours.
• 18:10
  Dr. Amanda: Now, if you can't meet 500 hours with the respect to the short term rentals.
• 18:15
  Dr. Amanda: The other way to meet it is if you spend at least 100 hours and nobody else spends more time than you.
• 18:21
  Dr. Amanda: So, an example might be if we look at the cleaning crew and they spend 80 hours this year, and you have some landscapers who spent 40 hours this year.
• 18:30
  Dr. Amanda: you've spent at least 100, and that is more than those other people.
• 18:33
  Dr. Amanda: Then you also could have met material participation.
• 18:36
  Dr. Amanda: Again, the benefit is, then you can use short term rental losses against W2 and other income for tax purposes.
• 18:42
  Dr. Amanda: and then there's the 3rd requirement, which is you spend any number of hours, but that is more hours than everybody else combined.
• 18:49
  Dr. Amanda: So, the same scenario you have, you know, let's say you had 80 hours, your cleaning crew, your gardeners, some repair guys collectively, they've only have.
• 18:57
  Dr. Amanda: 40 hours, then you would be able to meet material participation because you have more time than everybody else.
• 19:04
  Dr. Amanda: Combined.
• 19:05
  Dr. Alex: Awesome.
• 19:05
  Dr. Alex: Yeah, that's super helpful.
• 19:07
  Dr. Alex: You mentioned, you and your spouse, would this also work if you were in a partnership with somebody, like if you did a joint venture on a property and you guys split, or does that not meet material participation?
• 19:16
  Dr. Amanda: so if so, in this context, when we talk about the hours, it's only you and your spouse.
• 19:21
  Dr. Amanda: If you have a partner in a deal, they are actually considered other people because remember 2 of those tests were comparing your hours against other people.
• 19:29
  Dr. Amanda: So that would be, you know, that would be like, your partner's hour.
• 19:33
  Dr. Amanda: So you're all like competing against them in that scenario.
• 19:36
  Dr. Alex: Okay, so you'd have to outcompete your partner, in order to get that benefit.
• 19:40
  Dr. Alex: It sounds like,
• 19:41
  Dr. Amanda: Yeah, I mean, if you're going into one of those 2 other exemptions, but you could use the 500 hour role in that scenario.
• 19:49
  Dr. Amanda: You have 500 hours.
• 19:51
  Dr. Amanda: The partner also has 500 hours.
• 19:53
  Dr. Amanda: Then you both have met material participation.
• 19:55
  Dr. Amanda: and something else really interesting to for people to understand is for the short term rental loophole.
• 20:01
  Dr. Amanda: When we talk about hours, yeah, It does not have to be 500 hours per property.
• 20:07
  Dr. Amanda: So if you're someone who has a couple of short term rentals, you can combine the hours that you're spending across the different rental properties to reach the hours that you need.
• 20:18
  Dr. Amanda: so something important to keep in mind as well.
• 20:20
  Dr. Alex: That's really interesting.
• 20:22
  Dr. Alex: I need to reach out to you after this and talk a little bit more about that.
• 20:24
  Dr. Alex: Because we have a couple of properties, that are short term rentals, one of which just my wife and I manage the others with some partners.
• 20:29
  Dr. Alex: So, that's really interesting.
• 20:31
  Dr. Alex: I did not know that.
• 20:32
  Dr. Alex: So thank you.
• 20:33
  Dr. Alex: The other question I think that we're going to get, and you probably get a lot for this is how do you track those hours?
• 20:38
  Dr. Amanda: when it comes to hours tracking, it's kind of an honor system.
• 20:42
  Dr. Amanda: and so, What that means is your hours and logs are not included as part of your tax return.
• 20:49
  Dr. Amanda: It is not submitted to the IRS at the time you file.
• 20:52
  Dr. Amanda: It is something that you keep internally.
• 20:55
  Dr. Amanda: However, having said that, we always recommend our clients track those hours, because if you are audited and if the IRS were to challenge, Whether you have the hours?
• 21:04
  Dr. Amanda: you do have to be able to substantiate those hours.
• 21:08
  Dr. Amanda: and most commonly is through hours logs, right?
• 21:11
  Dr. Amanda: Logging in like what the date is, what you're doing, how many hours and which property is it related to?
• 21:18
  Dr. Amanda: now the IRS doesn't have a specific requirement in terms of.
• 21:21
  Dr. Amanda: how you track it in terms of methodology.
• 21:23
  Dr. Amanda: So, what they do want is it has to be consistent.
• 21:26
  Dr. Amanda: It has to be reasonable.
• 21:27
  Dr. Amanda: So consistent just means, okay, I'm going to do it all in this little log book that I have, that's fine.
• 21:32
  Dr. Amanda: Or it's going to all be in my Google calendar, or it's all going to be in this app or all going to be an Excel spreadsheet.
• 21:38
  Dr. Amanda: and of course it has to be reasonable.
• 21:40
  Dr. Amanda: So if I'm there setting, you know, I don't know, putting together a bed for my short term rental.
• 21:44
  Dr. Amanda: maybe it's going to be, two, three hours, it's not going to be a 30 hour project, right?
• 21:48
  Dr. Amanda: So those are the things that they would be looking for in terms of documentation.
• 21:51
  Dr. Amanda: And what we always tell clients is the documentation just has to be something that you are comfortable using because the main goal is that it is something you are tracking consistently.
• 22:01
  Dr. Amanda: And if you're like me, I have a hard time remembering what I did last week.
• 22:05
  Dr. Amanda: And so if, someone asks me 3 years from now what I did in real estate, I have a very hard time trying to figure out what I did for that specific day.
• 22:14
  Dr. Amanda: so, the tracking just needs to be detailed enough where it's easy for you to be able to recall and pull up additional documentation for support if ever needed.
• 22:22
  Dr. Alex: Absolutely.
• 22:23
  Dr. Alex: That's, really helpful.
• 22:24
  Dr. Alex: I'm sure there's plenty of apps that exist out there.
• 22:26
  Dr. Alex: there's actually a physician that I know I'm blanking on her name right now who created an app called reps tracker, which that's what exactly what it's for is just tracking this and it can be used as well for the short term rental loophole as well.
• 22:38
  Dr. Amanda: I was going to say that physician is actually a client of ours.
• 22:41
  Dr. Amanda: we worked with her a couple years ago and, you know, we provided this Excel spreadsheet.
• 22:46
  Dr. Amanda: I go, here's some examples.
• 22:47
  Dr. Amanda: And she had asked me for an app.
• 22:50
  Dr. Amanda: And I said, I know, I don't know of any apps out there.
• 22:52
  Dr. Amanda: and a couple months later, she said, Hey, I created this app.
• 22:54
  Dr. Amanda: Will you test it out?
• 22:56
  Dr. Amanda: And I said, how does a Harvard doctor also become an app developer?
• 23:01
  Dr. Amanda: but it's really an amazing app.
• 23:03
  Dr. Amanda: it's really taken off quite a bit of actually heard a lot of other CPAs referring to it and recommending that too.
• 23:09
  Dr. Alex: That's awesome.
• 23:10
  Dr. Alex: I'm going to look it up here real quick because I feel like she definitely deserves the credit.
• 23:15
  Dr. Alex: in regards to that first name's Kirsten reps, tracker.
• 23:18
  Dr. Alex: com.
• 23:18
  Dr. Alex: We're trying to get her on the podcast because, her and I have been messaging a little bit here as well.
• 23:24
  Dr. Alex: So Kirsten, if you're listening to this, Dr.
• 23:26
  Dr. Alex: Kirsten limer, reps, tracker.
• 23:27
  Dr. Alex: com.
• 23:28
  Dr. Alex: yeah, I want to hear all about how she did that.
• 23:29
  Dr. Alex: Cause I don't have enough time to create an app.
• 23:31
  Dr. Alex: I don't even know where you would begin to create an app, but really cool there.
• 23:35
  Dr. Alex: And, a cool thing that she did.
• 23:37
  Dr. Alex: The short term rental, taxable, it's a great option.
• 23:40
  Dr. Alex: I think, a little bit more.
• 23:41
  Dr. Alex: reasonable for physicians to accomplish that than to probably accomplish rep status.
• 23:46
  Dr. Alex: or if your spouse is not on board from a rep status perspective, really difficult to do that too.
• 23:51
  Dr. Amanda: and we've actually seen kind of, transitions as well.
• 23:54
  Dr. Amanda: So, for example, if you're married and you're both working full time this year, still, then maybe consider short term rentals from a tax perspective.
• 24:02
  Dr. Amanda: but maybe the goal is that you guys just want to build like a big real estate portfolio.
• 24:07
  Dr. Amanda: You want to get into apartments and, commercial shopping centers.
• 24:10
  Dr. Amanda: And so maybe it's, next year.
• 24:13
  Dr. Amanda: One of you reducing your work hours significantly and then going after the, the long term rental and real estate professional.
• 24:19
  Dr. Amanda: Right?
• 24:19
  Dr. Amanda: So there's just so many like different options in terms of what could make sense and the strategy could change from year to year depending on how many hours you're working, you know, in the medical field versus in real estate.
• 24:31
  Dr. Alex: I think that's why it's so important to follow up with your CPA a couple of times throughout the year for that checkup to see where you're at from that perspective.
• 24:39
  Dr. Alex: And I'm guilty.
• 24:40
  Dr. Alex: I'm very much 1 of just get my tax return done and don't follow up.
• 24:43
  Dr. Alex: So this is definitely inspiring me to make sure I'm staying on top of things because we got hit with a pretty big tax bill this last year that I would hope to not receive again going forward.
• 24:53
  Dr. Alex: So, definitely going to implement some of these strategies myself as well.
• 24:57
  Dr. Alex: Speaking of other real estate strategies, what are some other ways that you've found, you can invest in real estate and limit your tax burden, or what are some other real estate asset classes that can be beneficial to invest in as a physician or a high net worth individual?
• 25:10
  Dr. Amanda: I think for anyone is, the foundation of tax savings is really maximizing your write offs because now, as a real estate investor, you can start to shift some of your personal expenses into legitimate business deductions, you know, things like, when we use our car for, For our real estate business, or when we have a home office that we're working from, or if we hire our kids to help out in our real estate business.
• 25:34
  Dr. Amanda: So really taking a look at what are you spending money on already?
• 25:37
  Dr. Amanda: And within those buckets, are there any items that?
• 25:41
  Dr. Amanda: Can reasonably be shifted into legitimate business deductions.
• 25:45
  Dr. Amanda: And again, the higher income you have, the higher tax rate you're in, which means that every dollar of write off saves you at a higher tax rate, right?
• 25:53
  Dr. Amanda: So if you're 37 percent for federal, another 10 percent for state, that means every 100 you write off, you're saving 47 on it in terms of taxes.
• 26:03
  Dr. Amanda: Against the rental income, or maybe even like your W2 income if you're planning accordingly.
• 26:07
  Dr. Amanda: So, I think just kind of starting with the foundation, whenever you're spending a significant amount of money on something, whenever you have these recurring expenses.
• 26:16
  Dr. Amanda: Those are good opportunities to talk to your tax advisor and say, Hey, I'm spending a lot of money on these things.
• 26:21
  Dr. Amanda: Are there ways that we could turn them into legitimate deductions?
• 26:24
  Dr. Amanda: Or what are some of the things we can do to possibly make them legitimate write offs?
• 26:29
  Dr. Amanda: Right?
• 26:29
  Dr. Amanda: and go at it from that perspective.
• 26:32
  Dr. Alex: Very cool.
• 26:32
  Dr. Alex: What about people who are interested in investing in syndications?
• 26:36
  Dr. Alex: Is there benefits to investing in syndications?
• 26:39
  Dr. Amanda: Yeah, absolutely.
• 26:40
  Dr. Amanda: I mean, if you are a real estate professional with respect to your own properties, there are times or there are instances where you can also be a passive investor in other people's syndication and the losses, the tax losses from the syndications?
• 26:53
  Dr. Amanda: can also be used to offset taxes from your W2 income.
• 26:58
  Dr. Amanda: So there's definitely that potential benefit for those who are real estate professionals and investing in syndications.
• 27:04
  Dr. Amanda: But, you know, we'll talk about, even for people who are just purely passive, because we have a lot of clients like that too, where they're just very busy in the medical field.
• 27:12
  Dr. Amanda: They don't really have time to deal with their own properties, but they do like real estate.
• 27:16
  Dr. Amanda: They understand kind of the wealth building component of it.
• 27:19
  Dr. Amanda: And so if all you are is investing passively in other people's syndications and you're.
• 27:25
  Dr. Amanda: Receiving these tax losses from the K ones.
• 27:28
  Dr. Amanda: just understand that the benefit still is that you were able to generate cash flow.
• 27:35
  Dr. Amanda: Hopefully right from the investments and not pay taxes on it.
• 27:38
  Dr. Amanda: you got appreciation hopefully from those investments and not have to pay tax and compare that with your medical income, which you're fully paying taxes on.
• 27:46
  Dr. Amanda: Right?
• 27:46
  Dr. Amanda: So that's still a great benefit.
• 27:48
  Dr. Amanda: we also have a lot of, especially for physicians.
• 27:51
  Dr. Amanda: who invest in a lot of other passive businesses, so we have, like, let's say you're a family practice, but you also invested in another doctor's, dialysis center or assisted living, right?
• 28:02
  Dr. Amanda: And so, if to the extent that those investments are kicking off passive.
• 28:06
  Dr. Amanda: Income to you, your real estate syndication investments, losses can also offset that income and that could generate some pretty good tax savings there as well.
• 28:16
  Dr. Amanda: So, just because you're purely passive, I know a lot of CPS will say, oh, you get no benefit because you're just passive and it's just a syndication, but I think taking a broader view and saying, okay, I do have that income.
• 28:27
  Dr. Amanda: Maybe it's not offsetting my W2, but what are some other incomes that it could potentially offset?
• 28:33
  Dr. Alex: Awesome.
• 28:33
  Dr. Alex: Taking that whole global financial picture.
• 28:36
  Dr. Alex: Super important.
• 28:37
  Dr. Alex: And I think often miss that's, that's incredible advice.
• 28:40
  Dr. Alex: my wheels are spinning to be completely honest in terms of all these different things and different strategies.
• 28:46
  Dr. Alex: This is, so great.
• 28:47
  Dr. Alex: So thank you so much for doing that.
• 28:49
  Dr. Alex: What are some other common misconceptions that you've heard or common things that you've heard in the CPA community or real estate investing as a whole that, that may or may not be true?
• 28:58
  Dr. Alex: Thank you.
• 28:58
  Dr. Alex: From a tax perspective.
• 29:00
  Dr. Amanda: I would have to say that probably the most missed, item or biggest mistake that I'm seeing in the last year or two is probably the short term rental loophole.
• 29:09
  Dr. Amanda: Unfortunately, all the time I hear from clients where their CPA says, if you invest in short term rentals, you have to be a real estate professional.
• 29:17
  Dr. Amanda: so, you know, we kind of described that earlier that you don't have to be a real estate professional to use short term rental loophole.
• 29:22
  Dr. Amanda: I think, outside of that, probably another common mistake or myth is not people not understanding that their retirement money like IRAs.
• 29:32
  Dr. Amanda: step IRAs, maybe even 401ks do not have to be stuck in the stock market.
• 29:37
  Dr. Amanda: Those actually could potentially be redirected to real estate, without you paying very hefty taxes and penalties on that.
• 29:45
  Dr. Amanda: and the way that's done is through self directed investing.
• 29:48
  Dr. Amanda: So, in other words, we're not pulling money out of our retirement account.
• 29:53
  Dr. Amanda: We're simply moving it.
• 29:55
  Dr. Amanda: From maybe like fidelity or Merrill Lynch into another custodian, and then in that custodian, the retirement money is used to buy rental real estate and then growing tax deferred or tax free within the account.
• 30:08
  Dr. Amanda: I know for a lot of our clients who are medical professionals, especially doctors who maybe own their own practice, and they have a lot of 401k and maybe even pension money tied up in the stock market.
• 30:18
  Dr. Amanda: So I think it's really important for them to understand that it does not have to be limited.
• 30:23
  Dr. Amanda: In terms of investment classes, you very well could be able to move that to real estate.
• 30:29
  Dr. Amanda: If you can generate higher, better returns.
• 30:31
  Dr. Alex: Awesome.
• 30:32
  Dr. Alex: Yeah, you read my mind.
• 30:33
  Dr. Alex: That was a question I had written down to ask you next was self directed IRA and, and how that works and what that looks like.
• 30:39
  Dr. Alex: And you hit on that very well, way better than I could describe it.
• 30:43
  Dr. Alex: what are some pitfalls or things that people need to look out for if they're going to use a self directed IRA to invest in real estate?
• 30:49
  Dr. Amanda: one of the things important for people to understand is that when you use your IRA money for rental real estate, the cashflow from the property goes back into the retirement account.
• 31:01
  Dr. Amanda: That's exactly the same as, you know, when somebody does, invest in stocks.
• 31:05
  Dr. Amanda: Right, and, And so your IRA has a stock investment.
• 31:08
  Dr. Amanda: Dividends are all going back to the retirement account, so that works exactly the same way.
• 31:12
  Dr. Amanda: And so the benefit is that if you have a lot of cashflow or even if you sold the property that the IRA owns for a game, you don't have to pay taxes on that.
• 31:20
  Dr. Amanda: Right now it's all deferred because it all goes back into the IRA and you can reinvest that time and time again.
• 31:26
  Dr. Amanda: So on that same thought, though, if the real estate has a tax loss because of depreciation and things like that, you don't personally get a tax benefit from it because that loss is the loss of the retirement account.
• 31:38
  Dr. Amanda: so that's, I think, a kind of a somewhat common misconception that people are like, Hey, I want my IRA to invest.
• 31:44
  Dr. Amanda: And if there's depreciation, I'm going to save taxes.
• 31:46
  Dr. Amanda: and unfortunately, it doesn't work that way.
• 31:48
  Dr. Amanda: The depreciation is the depreciation.
• 31:49
  Dr. Amanda: in the retirement account, and it is used to offset the tax, any taxes in the retirement account itself.
• 31:55
  Dr. Alex: And you can use that self directed IRA to also invest in private notes or private lending, hard money loans, those sorts of things too, correct?
• 32:03
  Dr. Amanda: Yeah, I actually, I mean, it depends on the client and the investor, but, I love having retirement money invest in lending type of stuff, whether it's notes or hard money trustees, that kind of stuff.
• 32:17
  Dr. Amanda: And, It's almost a little bit better than rental real estate.
• 32:20
  Dr. Amanda: I'll tell you the reasons why, when we have rental real estate, we get to take depreciation and write offs and things like that.
• 32:26
  Dr. Amanda: Right.
• 32:27
  Dr. Amanda: and so if we do it outside of retirement account, then we can maybe use it to offset taxes from our other income if we're doing things correctly.
• 32:35
  Dr. Amanda: but if we do it inside of retirement account, like I said earlier, we don't get that benefit it's in the retirement account, when we make note investments in our personal name.
• 32:42
  Dr. Amanda: We don't get depreciation, right?
• 32:44
  Dr. Amanda: Because it's just a note.
• 32:45
  Dr. Amanda: and we don't really get a lot of write offs.
• 32:47
  Dr. Amanda: Like, you're not really traveling to look at the note that, I mean, you're not traveling to look at the property that's held by the note.
• 32:52
  Dr. Amanda: Maybe you are once, but that's pretty much it, right?
• 32:54
  Dr. Amanda: We're not really doing a whole lot with note investments.
• 32:56
  Dr. Amanda: So there's not a lot of write offs.
• 32:58
  Dr. Amanda: There's not a lot of depreciation.
• 32:59
  Dr. Amanda: So when I make A hard money loan in my personal name, I'm paying taxes on that interest income at my highest rate, similar to if I got interest from Bank of America.
• 33:09
  Dr. Amanda: So because it's higher tax and not a lot of deductions, no depreciation, it's not super great for my cash to be doing.
• 33:17
  Dr. Amanda: But at the same time, if I do that through my retirement account, then That's great, because the interest income is deferred, right?
• 33:23
  Dr. Amanda: Tax deferred or tax free in the retirement.
• 33:25
  Dr. Amanda: And I don't really care that I don't have depreciation because I wasn't going to get a personal benefit anyway.
• 33:30
  Dr. Amanda: So, typically, I like if you're someone who says, Hey, I want to do note investing, and I want to do rental properties, and here's the different cash source of funding.
• 33:38
  Dr. Amanda: I have a lot of times.
• 33:39
  Dr. Amanda: I would have them consider using the retirement money for notes because of those tax reasons.
• 33:44
  Dr. Alex: That's fantastic.
• 33:45
  Dr. Alex: Yeah, a lot of folks, that I know and in our circle, we just raised some money for a deal and offered it as a private lending scenario.
• 33:52
  Dr. Alex: And so, same thing.
• 33:53
  Dr. Alex: It was a note and it was a really great opportunity for some people who are interested in using a self directed IRA for funds to fund.
• 34:00
  Dr. Alex: Our investment deal.
• 34:01
  Dr. Alex: And we're really grateful for that.
• 34:02
  Dr. Alex: And the opportunity for that, and something that I think that folks don't really understand how that concept works.
• 34:07
  Dr. Alex: And I, the big education piece for them was the fact like, Hey, I don't have access to this money until retirement, but I can still change that investment into whatever I want it to be.
• 34:16
  Dr. Alex: And, they were invested in some high.
• 34:18
  Dr. Alex: expense ratio, mutual fund accounts, the folks that were interested in doing this.
• 34:22
  Dr. Alex: And so they, realized the, advantages that they had by switching to more of a private lending scenario, private notes scenario.
• 34:28
  Dr. Alex: So really cool option for folks, especially for physicians who have a lot of money sitting in IRA accounts.
• 34:34
  Dr. Alex: Hey, you can use that for different investment vehicles going forward.
• 34:37
  Dr. Amanda: I mean, part of what we do tax planning with our clients, part of what we do is we, we look for lazy assets.
• 34:43
  Dr. Amanda: So what we call lazy assets, meaning there's money or equity in places.
• 34:48
  Dr. Amanda: That's just not doing much for you, either not doing anything or not performing at its peak.
• 34:54
  Dr. Amanda: and it's really interesting that you mentioned about physicians and retirement accounts and this, this issue is not limited to physicians, but a lot of people, including like my friends it's like we always put money towards retirement account because that's one of the ways that we can reduce taxes.
• 35:06
  Dr. Amanda: And then the money that's in the retirement account, we don't really think about it because it's kind of like, I don't get to access it.
• 35:12
  Dr. Amanda: I'm not going to even get to see it until I retire.
• 35:14
  Dr. Amanda: And that might be like way down the road.
• 35:16
  Dr. Amanda: And so we just kind of forget about it.
• 35:18
  Dr. Amanda: Right.
• 35:18
  Dr. Amanda: But it's really important as part of overall wealth building to, to.
• 35:21
  Dr. Amanda: Identify that.
• 35:23
  Dr. Amanda: Maybe this bucket of money that's in the mutual funds or it's in a bond that's not really generating good returns.
• 35:29
  Dr. Amanda: And on the other hand, I have this note investment or have this rental property on the, you know, where it's going to generate much better returns.
• 35:36
  Dr. Amanda: That's where it could make sense to, you know, roll that money from where it currently is into like a self directed account.
• 35:42
  Dr. Alex: Yeah, that's, awesome.
• 35:43
  Dr. Alex: Yeah.
• 35:43
  Dr. Alex: Thanks for sharing that and the nuts and bolts behind that.
• 35:46
  Dr. Alex: That's really helpful, for folks going forward.
• 35:48
  Dr. Alex: what is, if you don't mind me asking, what's kind of the craziest financial situation that you've encountered or our story you have that you've encountered that either you're like, wow, I can't believe this is happening, or you were able to really, create a huge difference or huge tax savings for somebody.
• 36:03
  Dr. Alex: What are some stories that stick out?
• 36:05
  Dr. Alex: If you don't mind sharing that,
• 36:06
  Dr. Amanda: we'll share a good one because there's so many bad ones.
• 36:08
  Dr. Amanda: You want to hear the bad stories, the nightmare stories.
• 36:11
  Dr. Amanda: you should read, the book, that I wrote, called tax strategies for the savvy real estate investor.
• 36:16
  Dr. Amanda: you can get that on Amazon or bigger pockets or your local bookstore.
• 36:20
  Dr. Amanda: and there we share, good stories as well as some, some nightmare stories, but I think today maybe I'll share like a, a wonderful result.
• 36:27
  Dr. Alex: that sounds great.
• 36:28
  Dr. Amanda: just, yeah, because we're trying to get people to like taxes, right?
• 36:31
  Dr. Alex: Exactly.
• 36:31
  Dr. Alex: Exactly.
• 36:32
  Dr. Alex: I love
• 36:33
  Dr. Amanda: don't want to scare them anymore.
• 36:34
  Dr. Amanda: Good.
• 36:34
  Dr. Amanda: so since we're talking about the concept of retirement investing, when in a self directed, in the self directed investments, if you use a Roth IRA to invest in real estate, you get the same tax benefit as if you use a Roth to invest in stocks, right?
• 36:49
  Dr. Amanda: Which means tax free growth forever within that account.
• 36:52
  Dr. Amanda: And so the goal was always to say, okay, if I have a hundred thousand dollars in my Roth, how can I get that to be a million dollars or$10 million because I don't have to pay taxes.
• 37:02
  Dr. Amanda: In in the growth right within that bucket that I have.
• 37:05
  Dr. Amanda: so we work a lot with people who have, you know, good amount of money in their Roth account to see what can we do to to create the best possible scenario.
• 37:14
  Dr. Amanda: with respect to businesses, we have clients who.
• 37:16
  Dr. Amanda: invest in like startup.
• 37:18
  Dr. Amanda: So in this particular example, someone who was investing in a startup business with respect to like medical supplies, it's not really a supply, but that's the best way I can describe it.
• 37:27
  Dr. Amanda: So medical supply invention.
• 37:29
  Dr. Amanda: so they invested with a buddy of them that had that.
• 37:32
  Dr. Amanda: And, so it's not a lot of money.
• 37:34
  Dr. Amanda: I think it was like maybe 50, 000 or something.
• 37:36
  Dr. Amanda: Then that particular business.
• 37:38
  Dr. Amanda: Eventually went public, so that 50, 000 investment then became almost like close to 1, 000, 000 worth and all of that growth was tax free.
• 37:50
  Dr. Amanda: Right?
• 37:50
  Dr. Amanda: So, then, that money can be used to deploy into other types of assets to grow tax free as well.
• 37:56
  Dr. Amanda: We have a similar sort of example with respect to real estate to someone who bought, use their Roth IRA.
• 38:02
  Dr. Amanda: Right?
• 38:03
  Dr. Amanda: on a very, you know, very small property, but this investor is very smart.
• 38:06
  Dr. Amanda: They knew that there was going to actually be a medical facility coming up like close by.
• 38:12
  Dr. Amanda: And so they knew that that, it wasn't really about the small property was actually about the underlying land.
• 38:18
  Dr. Amanda: so they were able to lock up a huge amount of tax free growth from the time they bought that tiny home.
• 38:23
  Dr. Amanda: Into the time that, you know, it became super valuable when the medical building was finished.
• 38:28
  Dr. Amanda: So, again, always looking at the different buckets of assets you have and trying to look for ways that you can build your wealth with the least amount of taxes at the same time.
• 38:38
  Dr. Alex: That's great too.
• 38:39
  Dr. Alex: And, lazy assets too.
• 38:41
  Dr. Alex: I really liked that term.
• 38:42
  Dr. Alex: I was thinking back, we got to interview, Dr.
• 38:45
  Dr. Alex: Tom Burns, who you may or may not be familiar with.
• 38:48
  Dr. Alex: But he wrote, why doctors don't get rich, great book.
• 38:50
  Dr. Alex: And he's good friends with Robert Kiyosaki.
• 38:51
  Dr. Alex: And he was talking about active patients and he's saying how basically we're always thinking like we need to buy, buy, buy, buy, buy all these real estate.
• 38:58
  Dr. Alex: We want to be financially free in a year or two years.
• 39:01
  Dr. Alex: And that sounds amazing, but really playing the long game works and it has, and you just need good tech strategists and good folks in your corner.
• 39:08
  Dr. Alex: They're going to help you make smart decisions, save as much money as possible, and be able to put those into different buckets going forward.
• 39:14
  Dr. Alex: Exactly.
• 39:14
  Dr. Alex: Like you described.
• 39:15
  Dr. Alex: So.
• 39:16
  Dr. Alex: that is a great story.
• 39:16
  Dr. Alex: Thanks for sharing it.
• 39:17
  Dr. Alex: And, we'll make sure folks have the link to the book to hear some of the, nightmare ones going forward.
• 39:22
  Dr. Alex: It's in it, my Amazon shopping cart, that I'll be buying as well.
• 39:25
  Dr. Alex: So thanks, Amanda.
• 39:26
  Dr. Amanda: I've had people tell me they read it, and they get so engrossed in the book that, they end up reading it, you know, they take it to the beach with them and then their friends or their family make fun of them because it's like, who's reading a textbook at the beach?
• 39:39
  Dr. Amanda: So That's how good it is.
• 39:41
  Dr. Alex: That's awesome.
• 39:41
  Dr. Alex: Well, hey, that's all that I needed to hear from that perspective.
• 39:44
  Dr. Alex: Well, I want to be respectful of your time.
• 39:46
  Dr. Alex: where are some, ways that people can reach out to you if they want to know more, they want to, work with you or with Keystone CPA in regards to tax strategy going forward.
• 39:54
  Dr. Amanda: The best place to find more information about our services is on our website, KeystoneCPA.
• 40:00
  Dr. Amanda: com.
• 40:01
  Dr. Amanda: We have a phenomenal team of CPAs and tech strategists that work with investors all over the nation on how to use real estate to save money.
• 40:08
  Dr. Amanda: Save on taxes.
• 40:09
  Dr. Amanda: We also have a lot of great resources as well.
• 40:11
  Dr. Amanda: we have a free tax savings toolkit that you can download directly from our website.
• 40:16
  Dr. Amanda: and you know, in there we talk a lot about, legal entity considerations, you know, how to pay your kids and take a tax deduction.
• 40:23
  Dr. Amanda: And we have a whole section just on like the whole short term rental loophole.
• 40:27
  Dr. Amanda: If you want to dig into more of the details of that, if you're looking for kind of daily tidbits, and tax tips, the best place to find me is probably, on Instagram.
• 40:37
  Dr. Amanda: I try to post, kind of, more bite sized tax tips for people.
• 40:42
  Dr. Alex: You have some really great posts on there.
• 40:43
  Dr. Alex: Like the one today of the elderly woman who was, talking about going to the library.
• 40:47
  Dr. Alex: So, you keep it real.
• 40:48
  Dr. Alex: I like it.
• 40:51
  Dr. Amanda: Yes.
• 40:52
  Dr. Amanda: Like, I think that's Betty white from, But I don't know for sure.
• 40:56
  Dr. Amanda: Golden girl.
• 40:57
  Dr. Amanda: That's what It says.
• 40:59
  Dr. Amanda: I can't remember the shit.
• 41:02
  Dr. Alex: a, she was a national treasure.
• 41:03
  Dr. Alex: That's for sure.
• 41:04
  Dr. Amanda: Thanks
• 41:05
  Dr. Alex: I made it.
• 41:05
  Dr. Alex: Well, thank you so much for your time.
• 41:07
  Dr. Alex: I feel like we could, talk for hours and hours and there's so much to discuss in regards to Texas, which is where your book was going to be really helpful.
• 41:15
  Dr. Alex: so really appreciate it and I'll be reaching out to you guys in Keystone CPA for my wife and I's taxes to talk about some strategy going forward because we're definitely due for a checkup as well.
• 41:24
  Dr. Alex: So, thank you so much for your time.
• 41:27
  Dr. Amanda: for having me.
• 41:28
  Dr. Alex: Absolutely.
• 41:29
  Dr. Alex: Awesome.
• 41:29
  Dr. Alex: Well, with that, it's been Amanda Han and Dr.
• 41:31
  Dr. Alex: Alex Schloe with another episode of the Physicians and Properties Podcast signing off.
• 41:35
  Dr. Alex: Hey, real quick.
• 41:36
  Dr. Alex: If you're still listening to this, I'm assuming you got value from it.
• 41:39
  Dr. Alex: So I need your help specifically.
• 41:41
  Dr. Alex: My two year vision with this podcast is to help 100, 000 physicians learn how investing in real estate can give you the freedom to practice medicine and live life how you want.
• 41:51
  Dr. Alex: There are two main ways that a podcast grows.
• 41:54
  Dr. Alex: One is the ratings and reviews, and the other is word of mouth.
• 41:58
  Dr. Alex: If you can please leave me a five star rating and review on Apple Podcasts and Spotify, as well as send this to one to two friends.
• 42:05
  Dr. Alex: That you think would get value from it.
• 42:07
  Dr. Alex: We can reach the positions that we want to reach.
• 42:10
  Dr. Alex: Thanks in advance and talk to you on the next episode.
• 42:12
  Dr. Alex: Please note that the information shared on this podcast is for informational purposes only.
• 42:14
  Dr. Alex: It should not be considered financial and have with it.
• 42:15
  Dr. Alex: The views expressed on this podcast are those of the host and the guest and do not necessarily reflect the views of the Department of Defense or the United States Air Force.