Latest / I Hate Talking / Trail Life Camping Kerfuffle: Campfires, Conflict & Type A Parenting

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Trail Life Camping Kerfuffle: Campfires, Conflict & Type A Parenting · I Hate Talking

• 0:30
  Adam: Welcome to episode 131 of I Hate Talking.
• 0:34
  Steph: Hi everyone.
• 0:35
  Adam: So I don't think I've done any research on like how people visualize words in their mind.
• 0:41
  Steph: I haven't.
• 0:42
  Steph: I know in the past we've done a whole episode on is it called synothesia?
• 0:47
  Adam: Synothesia, yeah.
• 0:49
  Steph: And that's similar, probably.
• 0:51
  Adam: Colors from shapes and shapes from numbers, yes.
• 0:55
  Steph: Correct.
• 0:55
  Steph: Maybe so.
• 0:56
  Steph: I assume it says adjacent to that.
• 0:59
  Steph: But again, I haven't done research, so let's table this for another time.
• 1:04
  Adam: Okay.
• 1:05
  Steph: We were sick all week.
• 1:06
  Steph: And then you were doing a bunch of stuff with work and extracurriculars, but we were out, like we had kids that were knocked out for quite a while.
• 1:20
  Steph: That's true.
• 1:20
  Steph: It's been a wild week.
• 1:22
  Adam: You are a listener barely got an episode last time.
• 1:25
  Steph: If y'all know you probably did notice, I was pretty sick when we recorded last time.
• 1:29
  Steph: I held it together for the 30 minutes or so episode, but I was struggling.
• 1:37
  Adam: Well, there you go.
• 1:38
  Adam: So we'll get into some different topics and perhaps we'll research this synesthesia adjacent topic in the future.
• 1:45
  Adam: But as always, we have a word or phrase of the episode, and today's word or phrase is kerfuffle.
• 1:53
  Steph: I like that word.
• 1:54
  Adam: Have you ever heard the word kerfuffle before?
• 1:56
  Steph: I have, but I don't think I've ever used it.
• 1:59
  Steph: I think you have though, probably.
• 2:01
  Adam: Yeah, maybe I'm the only person that you've heard it from.
• 2:04
  Steph: Maybe.
• 2:04
  Steph: Maybe like old school TV.
• 2:07
  Steph: But I've heard you say it before, and I remember it making me laugh back then.
• 2:13
  Adam: Yeah, I'm hoping that this is like a German word and not a French word.
• 2:17
  Adam: We'll see.
• 2:18
  Steph: Because you're German or because we've been doing so much French lately.
• 2:23
  Adam: It just sounds like a German word, kerfuffle.
• 2:26
  Steph: You didn't answer my question.
• 2:29
  Adam: Yeah, I think because both.
• 2:31
  Adam: Okay.
• 2:32
  Adam: This is a good word, and hopefully it comes from German.
• 2:36
  Adam: And yeah, I'm just a little bit tired of French.
• 2:39
  Adam: Yes.
• 2:40
  Steph: Fair enough.
• 2:41
  Steph: Okay, let's check it out.
• 2:43
  Adam: Well, first let's guess at the definition.
• 2:45
  Adam: So obviously you've heard the word, and apparently maybe only in the context of me using it or an old TV show.
• 2:51
  Adam: But what do you think the word kerfuffle means?
• 2:54
  Steph: Like a big mistake.
• 2:55
  Steph: Like, whoops, a daisy, you made a mistake.
• 3:00
  Adam: I mean, it's related, yes.
• 3:02
  Adam: Perhaps it's like the people that are disagreeing with one another because of a mistake or something like that.
• 3:10
  Adam: But there's maybe like people that are normally friends, and now there's there's kerfuffle between them because one of them has made a mistake, and it's almost more like a sort of animosity between people.
• 3:22
  Steph: Oh, okay.
• 3:23
  Steph: I wouldn't have guessed that.
• 3:24
  Steph: Tell me more about it.
• 3:25
  Adam: Well, that's my guess.
• 3:26
  Adam: I don't know.
• 3:27
  Adam: I've I mean that's how I've used the word or would use the word.
• 3:32
  Adam: It's people that normally get along, but now they have a kerfuffle and they have some sort of disagreement.
• 3:39
  Adam: Again, because of some mistake or is it a big mistake?
• 3:42
  Steph: Or is it just like I don't agree that you put pineapple on your pizza?
• 3:50
  Adam: It's perhaps a little bit bigger than pineapple on pizza, but less than like World War or something like that.
• 3:57
  Steph: Okay.
• 3:58
  Adam: In between.
• 3:59
  Steph: Alright, let's check it out then.
• 4:00
  Adam: Alright, so let's check if there's a definition.
• 4:02
  Adam: I don't know if our favorite American Heritage Dictionary will have the definition.
• 4:06
  Adam: Let's check.
• 4:06
  Steph: I think it will.
• 4:07
  Adam: You think it will?
• 4:08
  Steph: I have faith in it.
• 4:10
  Adam: Alright, let's check.
• 4:11
  Adam: So you're right.
• 4:13
  Adam: The American Heritage Dictionary of the English language, 5th edition, has a definition.
• 4:17
  Steph: Nice, I had faith in it.
• 4:19
  Adam: A to-do or fuss, a disorderly outburst, disturbance, commotion, or tumult, a disorderly outburst or tumult.
• 4:30
  Adam: Hmm.
• 4:31
  Adam: Webster's defines it as a disturbance or commotion, typically caused by a dispute or conflict.
• 4:41
  Steph: Okay, so your definition was much closer than mine.
• 4:44
  Steph: I thought it was just like a whoopsa daisy.
• 4:46
  Steph: Made a mistake.
• 4:48
  Steph: So you're saying this is more severe, this is a conflict.
• 4:51
  Steph: Yeah we do not agree.
• 4:54
  Steph: Not just like I'm unhappy you put pineapple on the pizza.
• 4:59
  Steph: This is more like what in the world did you do?
• 5:04
  Adam: Yes.
• 5:05
  Adam: And it's not French or German.
• 5:08
  Steph: Oh, well.
• 5:09
  Steph: So are you happy about that or sad about that?
• 5:12
  Adam: I'm mainly happy about that.
• 5:14
  Adam: It's from Scottish.
• 5:16
  Steph: Okay.
• 5:18
  Adam: So it apparently traces back to the Scots word kerfuffle, where fuffle means to disorder or dishevel, and the prefix car from something awkward or wrong.
• 5:35
  Steph: Wait.
• 5:36
  Steph: Can you say that again?
• 5:38
  Steph: For all of us in the back.
• 5:40
  Adam: So it traces back from the Scottish kerfuffle, which means fuffle, meaning to disorder or dishevel, and the prefix car meaning something wrong or awkward.
• 5:52
  Adam: So you did something wrong or awkward, and now everything is disorderly, disheveled, or out of order.
• 5:59
  Steph: Oh, I feel this word.
• 6:01
  Steph: Okay.
• 6:03
  Adam: So yeah, fuffle.
• 6:04
  Adam: The part means to disorder or dishevel.
• 6:07
  Adam: Yeah, if you could just use fuffle as a word, I guess.
• 6:11
  Adam: And then car shuffle is the Scottish word, and then cur shuffle would be the English word recorded in the early 20th century, around 1908.
• 6:23
  Adam: And then yeah, it is pretty well established that it comes from Scottish.
• 6:28
  Steph: Okay, I do like that.
• 6:30
  Steph: I don't want to be biased one way or another, because I feel like I've been a little negative towards some of the words lesson recently.
• 6:37
  Steph: But I kind of like that.
• 6:39
  Steph: And I probably feel it because I'm not a type A mom, nor my type B mom.
• 6:46
  Steph: I'm definitely in the middle.
• 6:49
  Steph: And so I feel like this equates very properly to like some things are just awry and crazy, and other things are really orderly.
• 7:00
  Steph: Like it's just a kerfuffle.
• 7:02
  Adam: I guess we're about to have a kerfuffle because as a type A person through and through, you can't be not an A and not a B.
• 7:10
  Adam: You have to be one or the other.
• 7:11
  Steph: No, oh, I've seen some people say type C, which I guess if it's like just a made-up letter to explain the fact that you're not A or B.
• 7:20
  Steph: I relate so much to there's a Instagram lady who talks about type C moms.
• 7:26
  Steph: And 100% I sent you so many of her memes and reels.
• 7:31
  Steph: And I'm a type C mom, if you want to call it that.
• 7:36
  Steph: Because I'll know that the socks, one example is I will know the socks are clean and folded, but they are also underneath the bed in the guest room on the left side.
• 7:52
  Steph: So then it sounds crazy because I'm like, oh go, why did you not get the clean socks that were in the guest room under the bed on the left?
• 8:03
  Adam: I guess, yeah.
• 8:04
  Adam: I don't know.
• 8:04
  Adam: That's a type C thing.
• 8:05
  Adam: Instead of like a type A thing would be like you only have one spot for it, clean socks.
• 8:11
  Adam: Right.
• 8:11
  Steph: I think the idea is type A would have the clean socks are folded and put in the sock drawer.
• 8:19
  Steph: Right.
• 8:19
  Adam: And that's the only place that clean socks go.
• 8:21
  Adam: And the only place that clean socks can exist.
• 8:23
  Adam: Right.
• 8:24
  Adam: Yes.
• 8:25
  Steph: But there are clean socks.
• 8:27
  Steph: They're just not a clean sock drawer.
• 8:29
  Steph: They are over there.
• 8:31
  Steph: Kind of thing.
• 8:33
  Adam: Indeed.
• 8:34
  Steph: Or I think a B would be I don't know if they're cleaned, I don't really care.
• 8:39
  Adam: Or folded or yeah.
• 8:40
  Adam: Whatever.
• 8:42
  Adam: Yeah.
• 8:42
  Adam: I suppose so.
• 8:43
  Steph: So I can guess the concept is the b between.
• 8:47
  Adam: Like in between an A and B?
• 8:49
  Adam: So the average of A and B is C?
• 8:52
  Steph: I I agree.
• 8:53
  Steph: It doesn't make sense.
• 8:54
  Steph: But maybe this doesn't make sense either.
• 8:57
  Adam: Yeah, I would be okay with like type A B, but not type C.
• 9:01
  Steph: You want me to call myself an A B mom?
• 9:04
  Adam: Well, I think that should be the standard definition if you're like in between A B, because A the average of A and the average of B is not C.
• 9:10
  Steph: Because you're 100% an A.
• 9:12
  Adam: Well, apparently, yes.
• 9:14
  Adam: I think many people could be able to determine that based on.
• 9:18
  Steph: I feel like you want to call me a type B, but I'm not.
• 9:21
  Steph: Do you think I'm a B?
• 9:24
  Adam: You would lean B.
• 9:26
  Steph: Yeah, I'm not B.
• 9:27
  Adam: I think I think a lot of people exist on a spectrum.
• 9:29
  Steph: Exactly.
• 9:30
  Adam: There's not binary things in the world that people will typically fall within certain categories.
• 9:37
  Adam: But if there's not a categorical.
• 9:41
  Adam: That's why they started the C.
• 9:44
  Adam: Yeah, but see, I have a problem with the C.
• 9:46
  Adam: It should be like a scale.
• 9:48
  Adam: It should be like.
• 9:49
  Adam: Yes, exactly.
• 9:51
  Adam: But that's my type A coming out.
• 9:54
  Steph: Exactly.
• 9:54
  Steph: I think that probably is your type A.
• 9:56
  Steph: Because I don't think I'm an A or a B.
• 9:58
  Steph: I'm definitely and it depends on what group I'm in.
• 10:01
  Steph: If I'm with a bunch of Bs, I'm the A.
• 10:04
  Steph: If I'm with a bunch of A's, I'm the B.
• 10:07
  Steph: And I'm kind of somewhere in between I can rise to the occasion if I have to, or I'll chill and it doesn't matter.
• 10:15
  Steph: It depends.
• 10:17
  Adam: I guess.
• 10:18
  Adam: I don't know.
• 10:20
  Adam: I no, I'm just thinking if there's ever been like where I get frustrated at somebody else's type A.
• 10:27
  Adam: And I'm like, I guess I'm sort of a B compared to that type A person.
• 10:33
  Steph: But you're an ultra A.
• 10:36
  Adam: An ultra A?
• 10:37
  Adam: Yes.
• 10:38
  Adam: Okay.
• 10:40
  Steph: I don't know many more A's than you.
• 10:43
  Steph: You are the A of the A.
• 10:46
  Adam: I suppose so.
• 10:47
  Adam: Yeah, I'm having trouble thinking of a time that I've been to come across a person that is like more A than me.
• 10:59
  Adam: Or at least like equivalent.
• 11:01
  Steph: Right.
• 11:01
  Steph: That's why I think you think I'm of a B.
• 11:03
  Steph: But you're so far on the other spectrum that it really depends.
• 11:09
  Adam: I suppose so.
• 11:11
  Steph: Alright, is that what we're talking about?
• 11:12
  Steph: Or do you have a topic?
• 11:14
  Adam: I have at least two topics.
• 11:16
  Steph: Oh, okay.
• 11:17
  Steph: Choose one and let's go for it.
• 11:19
  Adam: Well, I have a topic related to kerfuffle because I use that word this weekend.
• 11:25
  Adam: In fact.
• 11:26
  Adam: And that's why it made me think of it as a good word for our podcast.
• 11:31
  Adam: Because we had a kerfuffle with a person at camp.
• 11:35
  Steph: Okay, tell me.
• 11:36
  Steph: So we have not seen each other.
• 11:37
  Steph: We've been apart for three days.
• 11:39
  Steph: You went camping with our little kids, and I stayed home with our big kids.
• 11:44
  Steph: So tell me about the kerfuffle that I missed.
• 11:48
  Adam: There's four boys in our family.
• 11:49
  Adam: I had the three youngest, and you had the one oldest.
• 11:51
  Adam: Yes.
• 11:53
  Adam: So just for clarification.
• 11:55
  Adam: That's my type A coming out, apparently.
• 11:57
  Steph: Okay.
• 11:57
  Adam: I did have everything very well defined.
• 12:00
  Steph: Everyone give Adam praise he deserves for camping with three kids.
• 12:04
  Steph: Well, I stayed home with one.
• 12:08
  Adam: That's true.
• 12:08
  Steph: I was trying to make it generic.
• 12:11
  Adam: I mean, we've done camping before, so this is sort of something that is typical.
• 12:17
  Adam: It's not like a new experience.
• 12:19
  Steph: But I stayed home with the oldest one and you camped with everyone else.
• 12:23
  Adam: I did.
• 12:23
  Adam: Yes.
• 12:24
  Steph: I like camping.
• 12:25
  Steph: I'm just putting it out there.
• 12:27
  Steph: I'm not opposed to it.
• 12:28
  Steph: But the circumstances we were in, I had to stay back with our oldest.
• 12:33
  Steph: And so you took the other three and you camped.
• 12:36
  Steph: So tell us about this kerfuffle camping experience I missed.
• 12:41
  Adam: Yeah.
• 12:41
  Adam: So the kerfuffle part of it is we were doing life skills and like pioneering skills.
• 12:50
  Adam: And in a group.
• 12:51
  Adam: In a group, yes.
• 12:52
  Adam: Not just you and your three kids.
• 12:53
  Adam: No, no, no.
• 12:54
  Adam: Yes, this was many different adult leaders and probably 40 kids or so.
• 12:59
  Adam: I think 50.
• 13:01
  Steph: I guess we can say, right, again, once pulling back the curtain.
• 13:04
  Steph: We've talked about being part of scouts before.
• 13:06
  Steph: We're no longer part of scouts because we moved.
• 13:09
  Steph: But you're part of a scouts adjacent group.
• 13:13
  Adam: Yes, also known as Trail Life.
• 13:15
  Steph: There we go.
• 13:15
  Steph: Give it its rewards.
• 13:17
  Steph: Trail Life.
• 13:18
  Adam: Yes.
• 13:18
  Steph: So you went camping with Trail Life.
• 13:20
  Adam: Right, which was gonna be my second topic on like the variations between Scouts and Trail Life.
• 13:27
  Steph: Alright, so next time we'll talk about that.
• 13:29
  Steph: So we can talk about the differences, right?
• 13:32
  Steph: We're not gonna gatekeep that.
• 13:36
  Adam: There's they're different.
• 13:37
  Adam: Yeah, there's some that are better and some that are worse.
• 13:40
  Steph: Alright, so we went you went with Trail Life, which in my little Nick is worse, is I can't camp with Trail Life.
• 13:48
  Adam: Scouts I can't like directly on the campsite.
• 13:50
  Steph: So this is one of the first times you've gotten to camp with the kids without me.
• 13:53
  Steph: Because in Scouts, I it was mom's and dad's camp together.
• 13:58
  Steph: But trail life, it's males only.
• 14:01
  Adam: I mean income scouts if you're a family pack, yes.
• 14:04
  Steph: Okay.
• 14:05
  Steph: So we'll talk about that in the future.
• 14:07
  Steph: But that's why you went camping without me.
• 14:10
  Adam: That's true.
• 14:11
  Steph: So you were camping with trail life.
• 14:14
  Steph: Yes.
• 14:14
  Steph: And the kerfuffle.
• 14:17
  Adam: So the kerfuffle was because I was the assistant to the fire and edge tool leader.
• 14:27
  Steph: Where we did fire and knives?
• 14:30
  Adam: No, you could use rocks as an edge tool.
• 14:32
  Adam: Like a sharp rock.
• 14:34
  Steph: Oh.
• 14:34
  Adam: It's considered an edge tool.
• 14:36
  Steph: Is anything that's sharp an edge tool?
• 14:39
  Adam: Yeah, it could be a knife, it could be a sharp rock, it could be a axe or a machete.
• 14:48
  Steph: Okay, so anything that could cut something.
• 14:50
  Adam: Right.
• 14:51
  Adam: Not exclusively knives, but paper.
• 14:53
  Adam: Something sharp.
• 14:54
  Adam: Paper is not an edge tool.
• 14:57
  Steph: You can get a paper cut.
• 14:58
  Adam: I yeah, I think that's going a little bit too far.
• 15:02
  Steph: Okay.
• 15:02
  Adam: The fact that it's an edge tool.
• 15:04
  Adam: Okay.
• 15:04
  Adam: So I was the assistant to the fire and edge tool person, and we did basically three rotations for the younger kids, the middle kids, and the older kids.
• 15:18
  Adam: And the younger kids and the middle kids did a variety of things with starting a fire from a magnifying glass or a ferro rod.
• 15:29
  Steph: Did it work?
• 15:30
  Adam: Yeah, they actually were able to do it.
• 15:32
  Steph: I've never gotten to do it successfully.
• 15:35
  Adam: I mean, we had zero clouds and very good weather this time.
• 15:40
  Adam: It was good weather for it, yes.
• 15:41
  Adam: And then we also practiced with, like I said, the ferro rod or the battery and seal wool.
• 15:48
  Adam: And then we did have matches and lighters, but we actually didn't even need those because people were successful with either the magnifying glass or the ferro rod.
• 15:56
  Steph: How cool.
• 15:57
  Steph: Okay.
• 15:57
  Adam: So that was good.
• 15:58
  Adam: So anyway, the proprietor or somebody associated with the campsite that we were staying at said that we needed to stay at a certain section unless we raked out the leaves for the particular section that was adjacent to where we were working.
• 16:15
  Steph: Okay, so let's slow this down for people slower like me.
• 16:20
  Steph: Um, you were not doing this in a fire pit.
• 16:24
  Steph: So when I'm camping, there's always a designated fire pit anytime I've camped.
• 16:30
  Steph: I understand people that backpack or whatnot don't.
• 16:34
  Steph: But in the basic general camping sites, you have a fire pit, and you were not in that.
• 16:41
  Adam: So we had a metal fire ring that we were using sort of in this leafy area.
• 16:47
  Adam: Yes, we had it with us.
• 16:48
  Adam: And then we were also doing the magnifying glass within a paved road that did not have any combustible material around it, which that didn't seem to be the problem.
• 16:57
  Adam: It was more the leafy area where our fire ring was.
• 17:01
  Steph: Because you brought a fire ring with you, and they were concerned about the leaves around it.
• 17:08
  Adam: Yes, I guess so.
• 17:09
  Steph: Let me, I mean, okay, tell me more about that because out of what I'm hearing, that makes sense.
• 17:15
  Steph: If you have a bunch of dead leaves, it's fall, you have dead leaves all around you, and you set up a generic ring, those leaves are gonna catch on fire also, and then theoretically spread to the forest, and then you have a problem.
• 17:30
  Adam: Yes, I'm very aware of fire problems.
• 17:32
  Adam: So the fire ring that we were using was basically just to start a flame from the magnifying glass or ferro rod, and then it was basically like immediately put out because and then you transport it to somewhere else.
• 17:45
  Adam: No, it was just put out because then the next kid tries their hand at starting the flame, and then we go on to the next kid from there.
• 17:53
  Adam: So we're not building like an excessive fire for the small kids or the middle kids.
• 17:58
  Steph: You're doing the flame and then you snuff it out, and the next kid tries it the same exact spot, right?
• 18:03
  Steph: The same equipment, okay.
• 18:06
  Adam: So no issues there.
• 18:08
  Steph: Okay.
• 18:09
  Adam: So then we get to the older kids, which were the last group to go, and as part of their fire safety training, we have them rake out all the leaves and pine needles and everything so that there is basically just dirt for the fire.
• 18:25
  Steph: Right.
• 18:25
  Steph: Okay, so that's appropriate.
• 18:27
  Adam: Because they are going to build a fire and then therefore and then cook food because as part of their requirements, they have to cook food from the fire.
• 18:36
  Steph: Okay.
• 18:36
  Adam: Where that's not part of the requirements for the middle kids or the little kids.
• 18:39
  Steph: So you the little kids, as long as it got a spark, they were good.
• 18:44
  Steph: Where the older kids not only just get a spark, they have to get an actual flame going.
• 18:50
  Adam: Right.
• 18:50
  Adam: Like the little kids and the middle kids had to start a fire.
• 18:54
  Steph: Yep.
• 18:55
  Adam: The older kids had to start a fire and then cook with said fire.
• 18:58
  Adam: So it had to be like big enough to cook meat, essentially.
• 19:03
  Steph: And that was not in the designated area.
• 19:06
  Steph: I see.
• 19:07
  Adam: So I had concerns about this, and I think there was some miscommunication between the people of our troupe that led to this kerfuffle because I thought we had to be in the fire ring, but like I was told otherwise that we could just build the fire in the dirt as long as everything was raked away, which is true.
• 19:27
  Adam: Like as long as you can't spray.
• 19:29
  Adam: Right.
• 19:29
  Adam: You break all the dry material away and you like dig down a little bit so that you just have dirt and everything.
• 19:34
  Adam: You have loose dirt so that you can put out the fire if it goes out of control.
• 19:39
  Steph: Did you have buckets of water?
• 19:40
  Adam: We had buckets of water at the campsite, not immediately adjacent.
• 19:45
  Steph: Okay.
• 19:46
  Adam: But you're not going to have buckets of water immediately adjacent in like a survival situation either, though.
• 19:52
  Steph: Okay.
• 19:53
  Adam: So you're doing like pioneer skills where you're basically don't have any running water or amenities like that.
• 20:01
  Steph: Right.
• 20:01
  Steph: Okay.
• 20:02
  Steph: So this is uh what we talked about next week.
• 20:04
  Steph: We'll talk about the difference between scouts and trail life.
• 20:07
  Steph: The difference right away is scouts, you do not start a fire until you have a bucket of water aside you.
• 20:15
  Adam: Yeah, I also think part of the difference, and again, we can get into this next time, is Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts versus Trail Life is different.
• 20:24
  Steph: Right.
• 20:24
  Steph: Okay, that's a different we only did Cub Scouts.
• 20:26
  Steph: Our kid, our oldest, was able to age up into Boy Scouts and never he chose not to.
• 20:35
  Steph: So we've had a decade or so experience fully involved in Cub Scouts.
• 20:43
  Steph: But in trail life, there's not necessarily a definition, right?
• 20:47
  Steph: Like the older kids and the younger kids are together.
• 20:51
  Adam: Yeah, it's basically just another patrol.
• 20:53
  Steph: Right.
• 20:54
  Steph: So Cub Scouts, at least in our group, Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts did not camp together.
• 21:01
  Steph: Maybe if you're a smaller group, you would.
• 21:04
  Steph: But we only did little kids like fifth grade below.
• 21:09
  Adam: Right, or Cub Scouts would like have a special visit from Boy Scouts, but it was like not co-camping.
• 21:17
  Steph: It was like They were showing us something.
• 21:19
  Adam: Right.
• 21:20
  Steph: Example and someone to look up to.
• 21:22
  Adam: Correct.
• 21:23
  Steph: Okay.
• 21:23
  Steph: So this is different because you have the big kids with you.
• 21:28
  Adam: Yes.
• 21:29
  Steph: So if our oldest had chosen to continue on, we gave him the choice if he wanted to join, he opted out.
• 21:36
  Steph: But had he chose to join, he'd be there with you right now.
• 21:40
  Adam: That's true.
• 21:41
  Adam: Yeah, he would have been at the kerfuffle.
• 21:43
  Steph: Would I have been by myself at home alone?
• 21:45
  Steph: Because I'm the only female in our family.
• 21:48
  Adam: Or you could have gone to the whatever it's called.
• 21:51
  Adam: What's it called?
• 21:52
  Adam: The equivalent of trail life for women.
• 21:54
  Steph: A spa?
• 21:55
  Adam: No, not the spa.
• 21:56
  Adam: The American American Girls thing.
• 22:00
  Steph: I don't have a daughter.
• 22:00
  Steph: You do that when you have a daughter.
• 22:02
  Adam: That's true.
• 22:02
  Steph: American Heritage is the female version of Girl Scouts.
• 22:07
  Adam: That's true.
• 22:08
  Steph: And Trail Life is the male version of Boy Scouts.
• 22:11
  Adam: It's not a version, it's sort of like the original.
• 22:14
  Steph: You are so brainwashed on.
• 22:17
  Steph: Okay.
• 22:18
  Steph: Next week.
• 22:18
  Steph: We'll talk about this next week.
• 22:20
  Steph: Let's continue on.
• 22:20
  Steph: This curfuffle.
• 22:22
  Steph: So y'all started a fire where you weren't supposed to.
• 22:25
  Adam: Well, we thought we were supposed to because we said you.
• 22:29
  Adam: Had to be in the fire rink unless you raked out the dry material.
• 22:33
  Adam: And we did all that.
• 22:34
  Adam: We like raked it out and had a very well-intentioned clearance between any dry material and the fire area.
• 22:42
  Steph: Okay.
• 22:42
  Steph: So as if you were hiking, camp backpacking, and stopped to make a fire.
• 22:48
  Adam: Right.
• 22:48
  Adam: Okay.
• 22:48
  Adam: Go on.
• 22:49
  Adam: Dug the little hole, had dirt ready for any particular yes.
• 22:53
  Adam: Did everything according to procedures, etc., etc.
• 22:58
  Adam: And then yeah, the proprietor of the camp or whoever's associated with the camp came and like basically used a front-end loader, like a little mini digger.
• 23:10
  Adam: It wasn't like a full front-end loader, but it was in between like a skid skier and a front-end loader.
• 23:16
  Steph: He drove it up to you guys?
• 23:17
  Adam: Yeah, he drove it up and like just turned all the dirt and like put our fryers out.
• 23:21
  Steph: Oh no.
• 23:22
  Steph: What'd y'all do?
• 23:24
  Adam: Well, we were done with all the cooking and we were done with all like the skills.
• 23:28
  Adam: So the one other leader was like, Oh, thank you so much for taking care of this.
• 23:34
  Adam: Because we were like, we're gonna put out the fires anyway and like turn over the dirt and so you saved us the work.
• 23:40
  Steph: Yeah, good job.
• 23:41
  Adam: But then there was the kerfuffle.
• 23:43
  Steph: Okay.
• 23:43
  Adam: Where he's like, I told you guys not to do it on this side and do it near the leaves in the thing.
• 23:49
  Adam: And then it was just like, I don't know.
• 23:52
  Steph: I'm still a little bit unclear because you just back up from that conversation or were you part of it?
• 23:58
  Adam: I I was part of it, yeah.
• 24:00
  Steph: Okay.
• 24:00
  Adam: I was like, okay, I didn't really fight the guy, nobody really fought the guy.
• 24:04
  Adam: He was like very set in his ways, and he was like, This is wrong.
• 24:09
  Adam: Even though, like many of us debriefed afterwards and was like, he said, if you clear the leaves and clear the thing, you can do it here.
• 24:16
  Adam: So I don't know if you like forgot that, or he meant like you can't really actually clear the leaves and the debris, so you have to do it over here.
• 24:25
  Adam: I'm not sure.
• 24:26
  Steph: He didn't think you were gonna okay.
• 24:28
  Steph: So, in no way am I trying to make you feel bad.
• 24:30
  Steph: Again, you were this assistant, so and this is your first time camping with them all.
• 24:35
  Steph: So I understand there's a hierarchy, but in all of our years of camping, unless you were legitimately backpacking, like you're carrying your stuff with you in hiking places, because you're just car camping, right?
• 24:49
  Adam: I mean, this was a little bit more rustic than car camping, but not by much.
• 24:54
  Steph: Okay, there's pretty clear expectations you only do a fire in the pit, right?
• 25:00
  Steph: Was there any part of you that thought like we should only be doing this near the pit?
• 25:06
  Adam: Yes, I did bring that up to some of the other leaders, and they're like, he said, as long as we're rake it, it's good.
• 25:12
  Adam: So I was like, okay.
• 25:14
  Adam: And also, true life is a little bit more rustic or like unsafe, quote unquote.
• 25:26
  Adam: Like Cub Scouts was too safe.
• 25:28
  Adam: Like you can't go on a river in a boat, or you can't go.
• 25:33
  Steph: Well, okay, we can't give away too much because next week you can talk about this.
• 25:38
  Steph: But while we were part of Cub Scouts, they made that rule, right?
• 25:41
  Steph: That you could not be on the water.
• 25:44
  Steph: They used to kayak and canoe and fish.
• 25:48
  Steph: And while we were there, they made a rule that that wasn't allowed anymore.
• 25:51
  Adam: Right.
• 25:53
  Steph: But think okay, pull yourself to 10 years ago, the rules from scouts 10 years ago.
• 25:59
  Steph: Would they have allowed you guys to make a fire out of the designated fire area?
• 26:04
  Adam: Not in Cub Scouts, but again, I was never part of Boy Scouts.
• 26:08
  Adam: I feel like this could have been allowed in Boy Scouts, and this was like the Boy Scout equivalent to Trail Life, yes, because they were yes, this was the older group.
• 26:17
  Steph: Okay, so going back just whether you got in the kerfuffle and got in trouble first.
• 26:22
  Steph: I want to hear more about that in a moment.
• 26:24
  Steph: Was it hard making a fire not in a fire pit?
• 26:28
  Adam: It was actually easier, really, yeah.
• 26:30
  Adam: Because you don't have like this mesh stuff around it or like this metal ring around it, you get a lot better airflow, you get a lot better access to actually creating sparks and fire and blowing on the fire to increase the flame and everything like that.
• 26:48
  Adam: That was actually far easier.
• 26:50
  Steph: Because how hard is it?
• 26:51
  Steph: Because again, once I've never made a fire not in a pit, but it is hard when you have like a foot, foot and a half of metal or concrete or something around you.
• 27:03
  Steph: It is really hard to, yeah, like you said, get the airflow and stuff into that fire.
• 27:09
  Steph: That's interesting.
• 27:11
  Adam: Yeah, it was far easier.
• 27:12
  Adam: They actually the kids had much easier time creating flame, and I don't think it was just because they were older, I think it was because they had better access to like airflow and visual acuity with the flame and everything like that.
• 27:26
  Steph: Because how quick, like if you're in a pit and then you need to add like dry leaves or something to it, when they put them on top, that just smothers it.
• 27:38
  Steph: But if you have that open area to add it to like the below area to um, I could see how it'd be easier.
• 27:46
  Steph: Yes, but I've never experienced it.
• 27:48
  Adam: It was a lot easier.
• 27:49
  Steph: So in the curve buffle, tell us what did you do and what happened.
• 27:54
  Steph: Y'all, okay, so trial life is Christian.
• 27:58
  Adam: I mean, I was I personally was like, okay, sorry.
• 28:02
  Adam: We move on.
• 28:03
  Adam: We learned our lesson.
• 28:05
  Adam: We yeah, we made a mistake, move on.
• 28:07
  Adam: There were some other people that were like, Well, it was miscommunication and XYZ, and I I did not feel that that was the proper tact with the particular person in mind.
• 28:20
  Steph: Because he wasn't listening to you anyways.
• 28:22
  Adam: Yeah, he had sort of made up his mind.
• 28:24
  Steph: He brought a freaking skid scare, right?
• 28:27
  Adam: It was larger than a skid skier.
• 28:28
  Steph: That's not easy to drive over there.
• 28:30
  Steph: Right.
• 28:30
  Steph: It's not like he had a shovel that he just Right.
• 28:34
  Adam: No, I was ready to just be like, yeah, we're wrong.
• 28:36
  Steph: Sorry.
• 28:37
  Adam: Yep, just move on.
• 28:39
  Steph: Okay.
• 28:39
  Steph: So was there any chance they were gonna kick you guys out?
• 28:43
  Steph: No.
• 28:44
  Steph: Because there is a legitimate concern.
• 28:46
  Adam: I mean, I guess if we set the whole place on fire, but it was not I was not concerned about that.
• 28:51
  Steph: Like we had cleared no trees near you.
• 28:54
  Adam: We had cleared a much larger area than needed, and we had dirt that was loosened in particular because we had prepared for this.
• 29:02
  Adam: Okay, like we had taken the shovel and like loosened dirt so that if there was any fire spreading, that we were already ready.
• 29:10
  Steph: So I think that's the difference, right?
• 29:11
  Steph: And maybe he didn't understand that initially, right?
• 29:15
  Steph: And then in the moment it's hard to evaluate and reflect on it.
• 29:21
  Steph: But most people do not clear a say five-foot radius or whatever it is for all that.
• 29:30
  Steph: So you're around trees, you're on bushes, you're around grass, and all that that it could catch on fire.
• 29:37
  Steph: It's all dry.
• 29:38
  Steph: We've had a pretty dry year.
• 29:40
  Steph: All that could catch on fire pretty quickly and spread faster than you're aware.
• 29:47
  Steph: So even if you guys were very careful from afar, he doesn't see that.
• 29:52
  Steph: He just sees they are not in the designated area, they are gonna catch this whole place on fire, and million dollars later, we are here.
• 30:03
  Steph: Right.
• 30:03
  Adam: And that's why I use the word kerfuffle, because I think it was perhaps a little bit blown out of proportion on one side, and perhaps not quite the seriousness on another side.
• 30:15
  Steph: So, okay, read me the word for kerfuffle again, and I'm gonna agree or disagree that you had a kerfuffle.
• 30:22
  Steph: Because in my head, logistically, I'm like, y'all, we're in the wrong.
• 30:28
  Steph: And not so much that I'd be concerned about your safety, but you did not do what the designated uh camping site said to do.
• 30:39
  Steph: It's not a couple of side you are in the air.
• 30:44
  Adam: Yeah, I think the miscommunication or misunderstanding or just lack of clarity was on the clearing of the leaves and the debris.
• 30:57
  Steph: Someone told you as long as it not you someone says to somebody, as long as the area is clear, we're good to go.
• 31:05
  Adam: Right.
• 31:06
  Steph: And this person said, uh-uh, you ain't in the pit area.
• 31:10
  Adam: Right.
• 31:11
  Steph: You're in trouble.
• 31:12
  Adam: Right.
• 31:13
  Adam: So kerfuffle, a disorderly outburst, a disturbance, commotion, or tumult.
• 31:20
  Steph: So did this city worker, national parks worker, cause the kerfuffle then?
• 31:28
  Steph: Since he was disorderly.
• 31:30
  Steph: Because y'all weren't disorderly.
• 31:33
  Adam: Yeah, it's more just like a disagreement about something that's maybe not quite as egregious as something he made it a bigger deal than you think.
• 31:44
  Adam: Yes, I think so.
• 31:46
  Steph: Except that had you caught something on fire and the whole area would be on flames that that's a bigger deal than you expect.
• 31:57
  Adam: I suppose so.
• 31:59
  Steph: Have you seen those people that like do gender reveals where they like set off fireworks with like blue or pink and then it like catches on fire and then like whole cities burn up?
• 32:11
  Adam: That's true.
• 32:12
  Steph: Is that a kerfuffle?
• 32:14
  Adam: No, I think the kerfuffle is more about the interaction between people.
• 32:19
  Steph: Okay.
• 32:19
  Steph: So you were like, sorry, dude, we won't do that again.
• 32:24
  Adam: The reason it's a kerfuffle is because it wasn't like we were kicked out or whatever the case may be.
• 32:30
  Adam: It was just more like there's this disagreement on something.
• 32:35
  Steph: Were you afraid they were gonna kick you guys out?
• 32:38
  Adam: No, I was not.
• 32:39
  Steph: Yeah.
• 32:39
  Steph: You didn't think you were gonna pack up and come home last night?
• 32:42
  Adam: No, I don't think so.
• 32:43
  Steph: Did anyone think that?
• 32:45
  Adam: I don't think so.
• 32:46
  Steph: Okay.
• 32:46
  Steph: Do you think you're gonna be allowed back next year?
• 32:48
  Steph: That's you don't think so.
• 32:51
  Adam: I don't I that's gonna be a thing.
• 32:53
  Adam: I don't know.
• 32:55
  Steph: Okay.
• 32:55
  Steph: You guys mess with the wrong guy, huh?
• 32:58
  Adam: I talked to one of the senior scout leaders, or I not scout leaders, trail life leaders.
• 33:04
  Steph: It's so hard.
• 33:04
  Adam: It's so hard to say the right word.
• 33:06
  Steph: I called it scouts the other day, Tio, and you were like, it's not scouts.
• 33:10
  Steph: I was like, I I don't know what to call it.
• 33:12
  Steph: We've called it scouts for ten years.
• 33:14
  Adam: Right.
• 33:14
  Steph: Okay.
• 33:15
  Adam: And I related all this to them, and they're like, well, I think it'd be okay.
• 33:20
  Steph: Is this a common thing, you think?
• 33:22
  Adam: I think that there might be a lot of kerfuffles in their past.
• 33:25
  Steph: Okay, I can't.
• 33:26
  Steph: I can't wait in the future to talk about the difference, especially because this is our first, your first trip with trail life.
• 33:38
  Steph: Because we again we have 10 years experience with Boy Scouts.
• 33:43
  Adam: Is it really 10?
• 33:44
  Adam: I said eight.
• 33:45
  Adam: I told people eight.
• 33:47
  Steph: Nineteen.
• 33:48
  Steph: We saw 19.
• 33:50
  Adam: 19 to 26?
• 33:53
  Steph: Oh, that's less than.
• 33:54
  Steph: What's that?
• 33:55
  Adam: Seven.
• 33:57
  Steph: No.
• 33:59
  Adam: I thought I told people eight.
• 34:00
  Steph: Eight's good enough.
• 34:02
  Adam: So not a decade.
• 34:03
  Adam: Type A and type B.
• 34:06
  Steph: Close enough.
• 34:07
  Adam: Close enough, that's what you would say.
• 34:08
  Adam: I would say eight point two.
• 34:11
  Steph: I can't wait to talk about your experience.
• 34:13
  Steph: Because again, I was home all weekend.
• 34:16
  Steph: Slightly enjoying living the only child life.
• 34:20
  Steph: Because I had one kid, and it's been 11 years since I've had one kid only.
• 34:24
  Steph: But so that was enjoyable.
• 34:27
  Steph: And maybe we can talk about that in dip in the future.
• 34:30
  Steph: What it's like to have one kid versus four kids.
• 34:33
  Steph: And that's not a thing that we usually have because they're all clumped together.
• 34:38
  Steph: But also, I want to hear what it was like to be part of trail life.
• 34:43
  Steph: Because girls aren't part of that.
• 34:46
  Adam: No, they're not.
• 34:47
  Adam: That was actually discussed at the weekend of camping.
• 34:50
  Steph: Okay, I want to hear about that because I asked you, I was like, what if you're a single mom?
• 34:54
  Steph: What do you do?
• 34:56
  Steph: And because our at least our pack, women and men were pretty equal.
• 35:03
  Steph: Maybe a little bit more men.
• 35:05
  Steph: But there are a lot of women there.
• 35:07
  Steph: And my best friends were part of it.
• 35:10
  Steph: We had now.
• 35:11
  Adam: That's true.
• 35:12
  Steph: Now I don't have that group that I get at camp with twice a year.
• 35:16
  Adam: You gotta go to the American Heritage Girls.
• 35:19
  Steph: I don't have any daughters.
• 35:20
  Adam: Oh, I see.
• 35:21
  Steph: I guess I can volunteer, but that's weird.
• 35:24
  Adam: That is sort of weird.
• 35:26
  Steph: Alright.
• 35:27
  Adam: So Trill A versus Cub Scouts next time.
• 35:31
  Steph: Or not verse, it's just different.
• 35:33
  Adam: Or different.
• 35:34
  Adam: Or we'll talk about how people visualize words in their mind that are not colors or shapes.
• 35:40
  Steph: That'll take a while to research.
• 35:42
  Steph: If you want to, I'm up for it.
• 35:44
  Adam: We could.
• 35:44
  Adam: We have lots of lots of different options ahead of us.
• 35:49
  Steph: All right.
• 35:50
  Adam: So, from your friends at I Hate Talking, until next time, remember it is only through talking that we begin the journey to understanding.