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Pete Coco on Photography, Perseverance and Finding Success | the Visual Historian Podcast · the Visual Historian - "A Photographer's Journey"

0:06
SPEAKER_00: Alright, you guys, we are back.
0:08
SPEAKER_00: I'm glad you're here.
0:10
SPEAKER_00: I'm so glad you're here.
0:12
SPEAKER_00: This is the Visual Historian Podcast, the Photographer Journey.
0:16
SPEAKER_00: My name is George Kushler, owner of GK Photography here in New Orleans.
0:21
SPEAKER_00: And all my people around here just call me GK.
0:24
SPEAKER_00: Just makes life a lot easier.
0:26
SPEAKER_00: Man, um, so I have I have been on YouTube for the past six years, uh, have not been nurturing my own channel.
0:34
SPEAKER_00: Um in the last two years, life just got busy.
0:38
SPEAKER_00: But this podcast thing is amazing because I get to reach out to some of my favorite creators that I either follow or um or just meet here and there.
0:48
SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, you got time for a phone call?
0:51
SPEAKER_00: And uh a lot of people say, sure, absolutely.
0:53
SPEAKER_00: And it's great.
0:54
SPEAKER_00: You you meet wonderful, fantastic people.
0:57
SPEAKER_00: Um, one guy that I follow on YouTube and Instagram, um, Mr.
1:02
SPEAKER_00: Pete Coco, he is the reason why he connects with me, I connect with him so much is because he's also a musician.
1:10
SPEAKER_00: He's a bass player, I'm a drummer.
1:12
SPEAKER_00: Anyone who's a musician in general will tell you it doesn't matter what the hell you play, you're just a musician.
1:18
SPEAKER_00: And it's in our blood, it's in our feet, our emotion, it's in our life.
1:22
SPEAKER_00: Like we're in a good mood, crank up the music.
1:25
SPEAKER_00: You know, we're in a bad mood, crank it louder.
1:28
SPEAKER_00: So I want to bring into the podcast right now, ladies and gentlemen.
1:31
SPEAKER_00: This is Mr.
1:32
SPEAKER_00: Pete Coco.
1:33
SPEAKER_00: How are you doing, sir?
1:35
SPEAKER_00: Good, GK.
1:36
SPEAKER_00: Thanks for having me, man.
1:37
SPEAKER_00: Oh, I mean, it's about time we did this.
1:39
SPEAKER_00: I know it's been like a couple months.
1:40
SPEAKER_00: We've been going back and forth, and we both just get busy with life.
1:44
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
1:45
SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
1:46
SPEAKER_00: So you are based out of New York, like one of my favorite places on the planet.
1:51
SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, in this beautiful business that we're in of of pro photography, I'm I'm I'm sure you've traveled too.
1:57
SPEAKER_00: It's it's amazing where you get to go um with your clients.
2:01
SPEAKER_00: And I've been, good lord, from Canada to New York to California.
2:06
SPEAKER_00: Love them all for their own things, but dude, there's there's just no place like New York.
2:10
SPEAKER_00: You know, I love New York.
2:12
SPEAKER_00: It is my inner attitude.
2:14
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it is my inner attitude, dude.
2:18
SPEAKER_02: It's my outer attitude.
2:21
SPEAKER_00: So uh so get everybody caught up here.
2:24
SPEAKER_00: So I so my podcast, I love to talk about the truth of what we do.
2:29
SPEAKER_00: I I love to inspire people, but at the same time, we're also in business, and everybody has a story, everybody has a beginning and middle, and probably not ended yet, because that's why we're still talking about it.
2:39
SPEAKER_00: Um but just tell everybody, I know I asked, I just told you, I just so what I do with my guests, uh people on the show.
2:49
SPEAKER_00: I'm sitting here, I'm looking at something over here, telling my my listeners out there, I love to talk to my guests before we actually jump on.
2:56
SPEAKER_00: And I was like, hey, you want to hear what ChatGPT said about you?
3:01
SPEAKER_00: And I'm gonna read it just because it's actually on point.
3:04
SPEAKER_00: All right.
3:04
SPEAKER_00: It says Pete Coco has an especially compelling story.
3:08
SPEAKER_00: He built his photography business from scratch at age 40, grew it rapidly, and combined his background as a jazz bassist with portraiture and music photography.
3:21
SPEAKER_02: It's it's pretty, it's accurate.
3:23
SPEAKER_02: There's lots of missing information, but it's it is uh it is not wrong.
3:27
SPEAKER_02: So AI got something right.
3:30
SPEAKER_00: Walk us through the the uh beginning days of of coco photography.
3:35
SPEAKER_02: So basically, um that is true that I started my portrait business at 40, which uh was 2020.
3:43
SPEAKER_02: So we all know that was a great year to be starting a new business, right?
3:47
SPEAKER_02: Right in the middle of the pandemic.
3:49
SPEAKER_02: Um and uh but I started in photography.
3:53
SPEAKER_02: I must have been like 16 or so, and my dad came home one day and he was like, hey, the camera store, uh I was looking for a job.
4:01
SPEAKER_02: He's like, hey, the camera store down the block is look is this help wanted side.
4:05
SPEAKER_02: You should go and uh see if you can get a job there.
4:08
SPEAKER_02: It's probably a good skill to have.
4:09
SPEAKER_02: And so I was like, okay, that's cool.
4:11
SPEAKER_02: So I that's when I started.
4:13
SPEAKER_02: So I was but then I wound up, um, I loved music and art from the time I was I could, you know, move.
4:21
SPEAKER_02: So as a very small child, I would be playing music, I'd be drawing, I'd be painting.
4:26
SPEAKER_02: Then I got into photography as a teenager.
4:29
SPEAKER_02: I started playing the bass as a teenager.
4:31
SPEAKER_02: So when I went off to college, I I didn't really know which one I was more passionate about.
4:37
SPEAKER_02: I was kind of passionate about both.
4:39
SPEAKER_02: But at that time, uh, really being a jazz bassist of all things really was the thing that I wanted to do the most.
4:46
SPEAKER_02: And so I wound up going to school for music and studying jazz and then classical, upright bass, and all that.
4:52
SPEAKER_02: But I put myself through school by working at camera stores out on Long Island and uh and working in the industry, freelancing, shooting for the school paper, that kind of stuff.
5:02
SPEAKER_02: So I was always had one foot in photography.
5:06
SPEAKER_02: Um then I opened the music school.
5:08
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
5:10
SPEAKER_02: And my what I did was open the music school uh after I graduated from college, and I ran that uh until 2020, when the world stopped.
5:23
SPEAKER_02: And then that's kind of when I I had to reevaluate things, you know, because like in New York, as you know, or maybe maybe people don't know, but you know, they basically shut the whole state down.
5:35
SPEAKER_02: So so every business was closed.
5:37
SPEAKER_02: So we lost half our clients in in a day because of that.
5:41
SPEAKER_02: And so so I found myself with a physical space that was empty.
5:46
SPEAKER_02: And I had kind of started getting into doing at the time, I was also an adjunct at a local college, and I was I was kind of doing some um photos for colleagues just here and there and learning how to take headshots and getting into portraits.
6:00
SPEAKER_02: And and uh, but then when that happened, I was like, well, I have the time, I have the equipment, and uh I need money.
6:07
SPEAKER_02: And so and so that was an impetus to start my portrait business.
6:11
SPEAKER_02: And then uh it it wasn't, yeah, man.
6:14
SPEAKER_02: So 2020, the worst possible time.
6:16
SPEAKER_02: Like, but you know, then I I I've read a lot about other like entrepreneurs and business owners, and you know, if you if you do your research, you realize like a lot of really great businesses were started like during the depression.
6:30
SPEAKER_02: And I think there's something something about that, you know, like like starting in in those kinds of times.
6:36
SPEAKER_02: Um, and I know, and then I started working obviously when people started coming in for headshots, and it was also something I could do one-on-one, and we can wear a mask and be separated when they had all those rules in place.
6:47
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so I was able to do it, you know, and then like people I remember people would pull their mask off for the photos and then put them back on.
6:54
SPEAKER_02: So I know it's crazy, crazy times, man.
6:57
SPEAKER_00: Remember, we needed like we we need to be like five feet from our people, like at least five feet.
7:01
SPEAKER_00: Five feet, yeah, yeah, yeah.
7:02
SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
7:03
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
7:04
SPEAKER_00: I was doing high school seniors uh downtown or something, and I got a couple of selfies of us like wingspanned, you know, with our arms out, touching, like barely finger touching each other, like look, we're five feet, we're good.
7:15
SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
7:16
SPEAKER_02: So you could you could just put them a few feet away and put behind your lights and take a headshot, and it was good.
7:22
SPEAKER_02: Um and then I was like, Well, I'm a musician, I love music, um, and I love working with musicians.
7:30
SPEAKER_02: So I just reached out to a couple of friends, and then even like, you know, I reached out to one or two people who I admired who were musicians and um invited them for like a test shoot.
7:41
SPEAKER_02: And lo and behold, the work that I did with those people opened doors uh for other work.
7:47
SPEAKER_02: But but what I did, yeah, and then then here we are.
7:50
SPEAKER_02: And so so I do a lot, uh we were saying before, like I do a lot of corporate work, which isn't the most inspiring, but it pays very well.
7:57
SPEAKER_02: And then I work with a lot of artists and musicians, which is high on the inspiration level, maybe not so high on the monetary scale, though.
8:06
SPEAKER_00: Right, as you know.
8:08
SPEAKER_00: I know, I know, but you gotta scratch that cool itch, you know.
8:11
SPEAKER_00: You still gotta do the the the creative things to keep you sane.
8:17
SPEAKER_02: Exactly, exactly, exactly.
8:19
SPEAKER_00: It's true.
8:20
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I've been photographing, this is my 32nd year in business.
8:25
SPEAKER_00: And I have one of my longest running clients is actually um a ballet company.
8:31
SPEAKER_00: And um, yeah, that's fun.
8:33
SPEAKER_00: It it it is, and I tell you what, it's very sobering the first couple of years.
8:38
SPEAKER_00: Like um, you know, it's not like shooting sports.
8:41
SPEAKER_00: When you when you shoot sports, you hold on that shutter, they're running and grinding and hitting, and like you're getting a bunch of cool shots along the way.
8:49
SPEAKER_00: Ballet, when they do that split in the air, it's kind of sort of one perfect shot, you know.
8:54
SPEAKER_00: It's just it's one and then you're off.
8:56
SPEAKER_00: And you either they're either in the groove to the band, to the you know, the the pit or not.
9:02
SPEAKER_00: And it's very humbling.
9:03
SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, that many years.
9:04
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I I've loved shooting a ballet though.
9:06
SPEAKER_00: Um, but yeah, many many many jobs are just paying the bills and just smile and wave.
9:12
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you know, dude.
9:14
SPEAKER_02: Um outside of musicians, dancers are my favorite subject because they just, you know, they know how to move their body and what they already know what it looks like because they're not guessing.
9:25
SPEAKER_02: Like most people, when they get in front of your camera and and and they start moving around, they have no idea what they look like, right?
9:30
SPEAKER_02: Because they haven't spent 15 years staring at themselves in a mirror, like a ballet dancer or a dancer in general, like scrutinizing every movement.
9:38
SPEAKER_02: So that's why if you wanna if you want to work with people who really are inspiring to work with, and uh, you know, like dancers are are probably the highest on the list for that.
9:48
SPEAKER_00: Oh man, absolutely, absolutely.
9:50
SPEAKER_00: And look, it it it becomes a thing where the the the longer you do this, the more you do this, the more like into their world you become, and you start right knowing what is supposed to be what.
10:01
SPEAKER_00: I forget all these years, you think I would know all the names to these poses?
10:06
SPEAKER_00: No, I still don't.
10:08
SPEAKER_00: I know it's right or wrong.
10:10
SPEAKER_00: I just couldn't tell you the date.
10:11
SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
10:12
SPEAKER_02: That's that's I think this is this is why also like when people ask me, like, how do you get into doing this?
10:19
SPEAKER_02: And and and well, I'm well all I did was I already loved jazz and music, and so it was a natural, it was a natural extension for me to be like, I'm gonna go to I'm gonna just take pictures of jazz musicians, I'm gonna go to clubs and take pictures of the concerts and then you know do portraits and this and that.
10:35
SPEAKER_02: It was it was a very natural extension for me.
10:38
SPEAKER_02: And then the thing that's really um like makes everything easier is that I already know that world intimately.
10:47
SPEAKER_02: So um one of the one of the people that I had contacted when I wanted I I wanted to take a photo of Ron Carter, who's uh legend jazz bass player here in New York.
11:00
SPEAKER_00: Bro, he is such a legend, like for real.
11:03
SPEAKER_02: Yes, and very intimidating.
11:06
SPEAKER_02: He's uh very tall and very dignified, uh, very serious.
11:11
SPEAKER_02: And um so, but I knew that I needed to connect with him.
11:15
SPEAKER_02: So the first time I did a photo shoot with him, I made sure that I had some jokes that only a jazz bass player would understand.
11:24
SPEAKER_02: And so once I dropped some of these jokes that were like it was about like bass lines and what notes you use on a bass line, and he just kind of opened up and then we were friends after that.
11:34
SPEAKER_02: So I really made sure to connect with him.
11:37
SPEAKER_02: I I think that is the most underrated part of being a successful photographer, is you need to connect with your client.
11:46
SPEAKER_02: And it doesn't matter who they are or what what they where they come from.
11:50
SPEAKER_02: I'll I'll work with people in my studio who come from very different backgrounds, but I always try to find a point of connection with them.
11:59
SPEAKER_02: And I think this is actually why we as photographers, it helps if you're into a lot of things.
12:05
SPEAKER_02: Now I'm into music, art, um, I like poetry, I like reading, I like movies.
12:13
SPEAKER_02: So I have a lot of points of interest that I can connect with people.
12:16
SPEAKER_02: I think it definitely helps if you're sort of a renaissance person.
12:20
SPEAKER_02: And I know very listen, I know very little about some of these subjects, but I know enough that if someone comes in and they and they say, I love Russian literature, I can have a half intelligent conversation with them because I've read some Dostoevsky or whatever.
12:36
SPEAKER_02: And I think that goes a long way with people.
12:38
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it does.
12:39
SPEAKER_02: And you're able to really connect with them.
12:41
SPEAKER_02: But but if you're really into a subject, like I'm a musician, I know I passionately know that subject.
12:48
SPEAKER_02: So for me, working with the musicians is a very natural extension of what I do.
12:53
SPEAKER_02: Um, so I tell people if you want to figure out what like who you want to work with, what do you like doing?
13:00
SPEAKER_02: Are you into you know whatever you're into?
13:02
SPEAKER_02: That's where you can start and and see where that leads you.
13:07
SPEAKER_00: Truth.
13:07
SPEAKER_00: Truth.
13:08
SPEAKER_00: What was it weird for you to be photographing the people in the beginning on stage where it's normally you on stage, you know, you know what I mean?
13:18
SPEAKER_02: Did I feel like you know, not it the the doing the photos didn't feel weird.
13:24
SPEAKER_02: Do you know what felt weird was promoting myself as a photographer after being a musician for 20-something years.
13:35
SPEAKER_02: And it was weird because it really came down to my own ego.
13:39
SPEAKER_02: Because in my mind, I was saying to myself, oh, if I if I start telling people I'm a photographer now, then they'll look at me like I failed as a musician.
13:48
SPEAKER_02: And who is this guy calling himself you're a photographer all of a sudden?
13:52
SPEAKER_02: You were a bass player and a music teacher all these years.
13:55
SPEAKER_02: So the weirdness was like most of the time it's it's in our own head.
14:00
SPEAKER_02: Um, but it was a struggle at first, but it was very freeing when I just said to myself, you know what, screw it.
14:05
SPEAKER_02: I don't care, I don't care what people think.
14:06
SPEAKER_02: Um, I need I want to do this, I'm passionate about it.
14:10
SPEAKER_02: And then the the funny thing is now people still call me and want to hire me um to play bass.
14:17
SPEAKER_02: And it's not like it's not like they looked at my you know camera exploits as as as a as a downgrade to my bass playing.
14:26
SPEAKER_02: Um and I would I would think most of my colleagues have even more respect for me to do these two different things now.
14:33
SPEAKER_02: But yeah, it wasn't it was definitely a struggle.
14:35
SPEAKER_02: Um it's more the the more intimidating part is when like when when I I asked uh Ron Carter for that photo shoot, that's how I got that shoot.
14:45
SPEAKER_02: I just cold called him, cold emailed, and asked.
14:48
SPEAKER_02: And and then I realized I wasn't afraid of him saying no.
14:52
SPEAKER_02: I was afraid that he was gonna say yes.
14:54
SPEAKER_02: That that's what the scary part was.
14:57
SPEAKER_02: Then you're then you gotta deliver.
14:59
SPEAKER_02: So um I think that's the part.
15:03
SPEAKER_02: It's just like being a jazz musician.
15:05
SPEAKER_02: It really is, because every gig you go to, you don't know what to expect.
15:09
SPEAKER_02: You're playing with people maybe you never met.
15:11
SPEAKER_02: They're gonna call tunes you may or may not know.
15:14
SPEAKER_02: You're gonna look at music you just never seen before if there's music at all.
15:18
SPEAKER_02: And being a portrait photographer is exactly the same thing.
15:21
SPEAKER_02: Every, every light, the light in every room is different.
15:24
SPEAKER_02: The face you're photographing is different.
15:26
SPEAKER_02: You bring your gear, you don't know what to expect.
15:29
SPEAKER_02: Um, and I think that's why maybe it's that personality of of being a musician, why it it it translates into being a photographer, because you're used to adapting, you're used to improvising and being creative on the fly.
15:44
SPEAKER_02: And then you have to really like assess a plan right away and then be like, this ain't working.
15:49
SPEAKER_02: I need to pivot.
15:50
SPEAKER_02: So if you if you do those things, you have to do those things if you're working, especially because the other thing is you're you're on this, if you if you're on set or you're at an at someone's home or you're at a club or whatever, photographing someone, I'm talking about more like a portrait shoot.
16:05
SPEAKER_02: They don't have they're not giving you it two hours, three hours of time.
16:08
SPEAKER_02: You have maybe 10-15 minutes if you have that.
16:11
SPEAKER_02: They don't want to be there, they're busy, especially if you like a lot of times.
16:14
SPEAKER_02: I'll go do portraits of a musician before the show.
16:17
SPEAKER_02: So the last thing they want to worry about before they're about to play is I need to pose for portraits because the time before they go on stage, right?
16:25
SPEAKER_02: You know, as a musician, like that's you need to dial it in.
16:28
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you want to get you got to dial in your emotions.
16:31
SPEAKER_02: You need to um, like I know a lot of musicians who just go sit quietly for 10-15 minutes before they go out to play just to settle their mind and body.
16:40
SPEAKER_02: So um it's challenging in that in that regard, but but it also makes it fun too.
16:45
SPEAKER_02: It's never boring, that's for sure.
16:47
SPEAKER_00: No, no, and I tell you what, the performance part of you know, meet me playing drums.
16:53
SPEAKER_00: So the performance part before that show, um you know your skill level, like you you know the songs, but you can't help it.
16:59
SPEAKER_00: You're nervous, and they always say nerves are good, it keeps you honest.
17:02
SPEAKER_00: Um but I I always see myself as a drummer, I'm on stage, so I'm I'm I'm projecting to who's out there, which is great.
17:13
SPEAKER_00: Right as a photographer, um, you're kinda in the shadows, but at the same time, I know damn well that people are watching me.
17:21
SPEAKER_00: You know, it's like I like to look the part, I like to look good, got my fedora, right?
17:26
SPEAKER_00: You know, depending on the job I'm going to do, I know damn well that eyes are on me because I see that when I go somewhere else, you know.
17:34
SPEAKER_00: So to me, it's always this professional performance.
17:38
SPEAKER_00: You know, I think being a stage musician has helped because I'm used to performing, I'm used to taking over taking over the crowd, so to speak, you know.
17:49
SPEAKER_00: So um have you done like weddings and that kind of stuff?
17:54
SPEAKER_02: I haven't done weddings, I've done a lot of events and stuff like that, but but you're a hundred percent right.
17:59
SPEAKER_02: You it is a performance.
18:01
SPEAKER_02: Even in my studio, I realized one one day it dawned on me, like even when I have an individual come in for a session, everything I do is is is a performance.
18:12
SPEAKER_02: And I don't mean that in a fake shallow way.
18:13
SPEAKER_02: I mean that in a way that it's all well rehearsed.
18:18
SPEAKER_02: I know, like just like when I bring my bass and I bring it on the stage, I know how to warm up, I know where to stand, I know where to put the amp to get the right sound.
18:28
SPEAKER_02: Like when you do it that many times as a photographer, I know where to put the lights, I know how to make the person feel comfortable, I know how to get this going, that going.
18:35
SPEAKER_02: And you're you're totally right.
18:36
SPEAKER_02: It's it's totally uh you're a different kind of performer.
18:40
SPEAKER_02: And I I think that dressing the part is super important too.
18:44
SPEAKER_02: Super um because oh yeah, you want to, you want, you want people to see you and know that you are an artist.
18:52
SPEAKER_02: Even if you're even if I'm doing a corporate photo shoot, they know that, oh, we got this cool artsy guy.
18:59
SPEAKER_02: He's cool, he's a musician, he's an artist, and he's gonna take these great photos of us.
19:05
SPEAKER_02: That that goes a long way with people because they don't they don't want the the their whole world is stodgy and and bland and right filled with you know AI.
19:17
SPEAKER_02: And so if they have a real human artist in front of them, I find that they they love that.
19:22
SPEAKER_02: Like sometimes it's those, and that's why I don't hate the corporate gigs.
19:26
SPEAKER_02: Some of them are are not as inspiring, but I try and I try I'm inspired by the people on those shoots because there's so many fascinating people that I've met met on these shoots and brilliant people too.
19:37
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
19:38
SPEAKER_02: So but I'm with you, man.
19:40
SPEAKER_02: Like it's totally a performance, and and in a good way, you gotta you you want to look the part and you want to make sure that that you you act the part and not act it, but that you know the part.
19:51
SPEAKER_00: Right.
19:51
SPEAKER_02: So it's just going in and knowing you're gonna be able to do it.
19:54
SPEAKER_00: I mean, look, even okay, so when I tell people, when I tell other photographers that may come be my second shooter or just a second and third on a corporate gig, I always tell them, I said, look, when that camera's in your hand, it you're on.
20:08
SPEAKER_00: You're on.
20:09
SPEAKER_00: The switch is on.
20:10
SPEAKER_00: And they're like, okay, we know that.
20:12
SPEAKER_00: No, no, no.
20:13
SPEAKER_00: What I mean is everything you do, everything, because somebody is watching you somewhere in the room.
20:22
SPEAKER_00: So even how especially how you speak to people, you know, the people people, it's just cause and effect, you know.
20:31
SPEAKER_00: People respond to whatever you're giving.
20:33
SPEAKER_00: So if you're polite but you know, direct, people love that.
20:38
SPEAKER_00: People like being told, hey, can I show you something real quick?
20:41
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
20:41
SPEAKER_00: Right.
20:42
SPEAKER_00: Go on that back step, point your front forward to me, chest up, turn your head toward towards your shoulder, and they're like, Oh, he's good.
20:48
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, I'm gonna make I'm gonna make you look good for that dress you're wearing, girl, because you can't be slouching in that kind of dress.
20:54
SPEAKER_00: I know darn well when you in front of that mirror, you were standing tall, looking at all those lines.
20:59
SPEAKER_00: And she goes, You're not wrong.
21:00
SPEAKER_00: It's just been four hours and I'm tired.
21:02
SPEAKER_00: I'm going, well, you give me 30 seconds, chest up.
21:05
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but you see, like you and I are laughing, and I have them like crying laughing because everybody starts dogging each other, and it's just cute.
21:14
SPEAKER_00: And then I'm done with them in 30 seconds, and next, you know, so it it is part of it.
21:19
SPEAKER_00: It really is.
21:20
SPEAKER_02: Man, you have to have this conversation too with I hate to say it to sound like the old guy, but you know, I grew up before the internet, thank God.
21:30
SPEAKER_02: Like we grew up, like the internet when we got it, I was in college, got the internet, and it was contained on one computer in the basement at the desk, and you couldn't bring it with you.
21:40
SPEAKER_02: Oh wow so our gen right?
21:43
SPEAKER_02: So, like my generation was benefited by the fact that you had to learn how to physically talk to people and look them in the eye.
21:50
SPEAKER_02: But it's definitely a thing now where um a lot of a lot of the young people just haven't they haven't had that same kind of social upload.
22:00
SPEAKER_02: That that that older generations have had.
22:03
SPEAKER_02: And um, but then again, I mean, there's also there's always been weird people.
22:08
SPEAKER_02: Like I we went to school with weirdos back then too.
22:12
SPEAKER_02: So it's really again goes back to like you just need people to have that personality that can connect with people.
22:17
SPEAKER_02: And then sometimes it's it boggles my mind, like you shouldn't have to tell your second shooter, don't be staring at your cell phone while you're on the clock at my gig.
22:26
SPEAKER_02: But you have to tell them that.
22:29
SPEAKER_02: That's a shame.
22:30
SPEAKER_02: That's a shame.
22:31
SPEAKER_02: It's I don't I don't understand it, but and then the thing that's that's that you know is crazy about events too is that like when you do when you're shooting, and I do a lot of corporate events.
22:41
SPEAKER_02: So if we have 10 speeches in a row, I get the shots I need within the first you know five minutes of the speaker speaking, but then I can't just sit and look and and start eating their food and staring at my phone.
22:53
SPEAKER_01: Right.
22:54
SPEAKER_02: Because like, what does that look like for the person who hired you?
22:57
SPEAKER_02: So you have to just even just pretend like you're keeping busy, even if you even if you got what you want, or sometimes there's other stuff going on.
23:05
SPEAKER_02: Leave the room, figure it out, get more shots, come back.
23:08
SPEAKER_02: So so I'm I when I was uh my first boss was like if you're sitting down, you're doing something wrong.
23:14
SPEAKER_02: There's always something to be done.
23:15
SPEAKER_02: I was like, oh, okay.
23:16
SPEAKER_02: Like if we just so, but um, I think that's also two pointers.
23:21
SPEAKER_00: I I can give you two pointers that of two things that I've learned.
23:24
SPEAKER_00: One, somebody told me a very, very, very long time ago, and to this day I still do it.
23:29
SPEAKER_00: Um, but the but the first thing I'm gonna tell you is that doing these events, because you're right, in the first five minutes, they're talking for 45.
23:36
SPEAKER_00: But the first five is all the emotion, you know.
23:39
SPEAKER_00: That's that's where they're that's where they're animated faces, they're they're they're they're making their first impression too, you know.
23:45
SPEAKER_00: And the last five.
23:46
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, first first five, last five.
23:49
SPEAKER_00: Um, so here's my secret sauce.
23:52
SPEAKER_00: Walk slowly around the room and just because those ballrooms are big, you know.
23:59
SPEAKER_00: So I was like, get your angles, do whatever it is, and I'll just put the camera up and I'll and all I'm doing is looking at the last image, and I'm like, yeah, I already got this, dude.
24:06
SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, okay, I'm gonna walk to the other side now.
24:09
SPEAKER_00: Walk to the other side, and you just kind of you stay a shark, you know.
24:14
SPEAKER_00: Sharks can't, they'll die if they if they stop moving.
24:17
SPEAKER_00: So just move slow.
24:18
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, just you know, do your thing.
24:20
SPEAKER_00: Um, so the second thing is that somebody told me a very long time ago when you have a group of people and you're posing them and um he goes, Sometimes everyone's in a blue moon, like guys in particular, like older guys or whatever, they don't want to be there, you know, they don't they don't want to give you their attention.
24:37
SPEAKER_00: He goes, I will always go to them to their jacket and pop their cuff down, the little shimmer on their shoulder, like you're getting something off of there for him, pop his collar, straighten his tie real quick, and say, Okay, look here, police.
24:52
SPEAKER_00: He goes, Man, you wouldn't believe this snap that happens with people.
24:57
SPEAKER_00: I used to thought he was talking, you know, BS.
25:00
SPEAKER_00: I really did.
25:02
SPEAKER_00: Dude did his day.
25:03
SPEAKER_00: I'm not lying.
25:04
SPEAKER_00: I will go, I will stop taking a picture real quick just to walk in and I go to the dad, the big guy, whoever's the important dude, that's who I'm fixing.
25:12
SPEAKER_00: And it's just real quick.
25:14
SPEAKER_00: And then I I can just look at the other guys and be like, you're good.
25:16
SPEAKER_00: You're good.
25:17
SPEAKER_00: Fix your time, please.
25:18
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
25:19
SPEAKER_00: Awesome.
25:20
SPEAKER_00: Great hands down, cuffs, beautiful.
25:22
SPEAKER_00: Look here, y'all.
25:23
SPEAKER_00: And it's like instant respect.
25:25
SPEAKER_00: I only need 20 seconds and we're done.
25:28
SPEAKER_00: You know, so if you feel like you're losing people, just do that.
25:31
SPEAKER_00: Just walk in and and just uh tweak something.
25:34
SPEAKER_00: You don't have to be fixing people's hair or anything, you know.
25:37
SPEAKER_02: So um, but you're showing you're showing them that you care, and you're showing them also that you're that you're the professional and you know what you're doing.
25:45
SPEAKER_02: Like that's so important.
25:47
SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
25:48
SPEAKER_02: Um it does go back to talking about business, which is why there's a lot of successful photographers out there who maybe aren't the best shooters, they might not have the best work, but they're super successful, and it's because they know all of those things.
26:06
SPEAKER_02: Um, yeah one of the big lessons I I learned with with my corporate clients, because I I've worked with a lot of big companies, um, which is great.
26:14
SPEAKER_02: And um, so I'll be like taking my gear into Manhattan to an office somewhere and working with finance companies or AI companies, whatever, different kind of companies.
26:25
SPEAKER_02: So one of the things that I learned quickly was that I'm there to make the people who hired me look good.
26:33
SPEAKER_02: Um, so it's not just I want to look good for my own business, it's well, this person who's the director of marketing who hired me, they your job is to make them look good too.
26:46
SPEAKER_02: So you have a lot of responsibility because now if you if you screw it up, then you make that person look like they're a screw up because they hired you.
26:56
SPEAKER_02: And yep, and it's also knowing knowing the the it's kind of knowing like where you fit into the scheme of things.
27:04
SPEAKER_02: Like, for instance, I have a I have a company that hires me all the time.
27:07
SPEAKER_02: They're very nice people and have a good relationship with their marketing director.
27:12
SPEAKER_02: But um, when I go in, I did a shoot recently there at the office, and so we have a bunch of these executives, and they did they did the work with them hair, makeup.
27:20
SPEAKER_02: We had my makeup artist come in.
27:22
SPEAKER_02: Nice and then they come in, yeah.
27:24
SPEAKER_02: So it was it was like one of those gigs.
27:26
SPEAKER_02: So they come in for their headshot and a portrait.
27:28
SPEAKER_02: So he's there.
27:29
SPEAKER_02: Now he doesn't need to be there while I'm photographing them, but he's explaining to them what's gonna happen.
27:35
SPEAKER_02: Now, of course, I can explain to them well, first we're gonna do a head and shoulders headshot, you're gonna be over here, this and that, and the other thing, and then I'm gonna seat you over here.
27:43
SPEAKER_02: We're gonna do a more casual portrait.
27:45
SPEAKER_02: He's explaining that to every single one.
27:47
SPEAKER_02: And why?
27:49
SPEAKER_02: Well, obviously, because he wants to remind his bosses that this is what I do, this is my role here, and I'm the guy who brought Pete here.
27:59
SPEAKER_02: And so I make sure that while I'm there, yeah, and I defer I defer to him.
28:04
SPEAKER_02: I'm like, hey man, so should we do a little this, do a little that?
28:06
SPEAKER_02: And I don't need I don't need to defer to him, but but it's important to kind of know where you fit in that exactly um and and then obviously the the best part is if you have if if if you can make them for the corporate clients especially, like there's if you can have if they have a good time and you make it quick and easy for them, they'll love you.
28:26
SPEAKER_02: Okay so I I have a company, they'll bring me in to do one headshot because they have you know offices all over the place, but they have an office on Fifth Avenue.
28:35
SPEAKER_02: This is a massive company, and they'll literally pay my entire location day rate to come take one headshot because that's how much they like my work.
28:46
SPEAKER_02: And so I was there recently, and I had the marketing director and then the creative director, like like the whole team was there to get.
28:54
SPEAKER_02: We wanted a photo of this one executive, and he was going in and out of meetings, finally got him in there within three minutes, and he's like, Oh, I'm old, I hate the way I look.
29:03
SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, No, man, you look great.
29:05
SPEAKER_02: Let's do it.
29:05
SPEAKER_02: So let's take a few shots.
29:07
SPEAKER_02: I pose him, I kind of you know, do my spiel, give him five, you know, took maybe five frames.
29:11
SPEAKER_02: I'm like, we got a good one.
29:13
SPEAKER_02: He's like, he's like, is that it?
29:14
SPEAKER_02: I was like, well, uh, I said, I think we got it.
29:17
SPEAKER_02: You look great.
29:17
SPEAKER_02: Check this out.
29:18
SPEAKER_02: I turned my computer to him, he's like, that is great.
29:21
SPEAKER_02: I love that.
29:22
SPEAKER_02: So we're done.
29:22
SPEAKER_02: I'm like, yeah.
29:23
SPEAKER_02: And so I said to the guy, I know you're busy.
29:25
SPEAKER_02: I don't I don't I don't want to have you, I don't want to waste your time.
29:28
SPEAKER_02: We got it done.
29:29
SPEAKER_02: You look great.
29:29
SPEAKER_02: That's what we need.
29:30
SPEAKER_02: As long as you're happy with it, you're done.
29:32
SPEAKER_02: And he the the man was like, thank you, because he was literally going from meeting to meeting.
29:38
SPEAKER_02: And then of course, the the the team that hired me was like, we're all rock stars.
29:44
SPEAKER_02: And and so I'm very, I'm very cognizant of that.
29:47
SPEAKER_02: Like, I'm I think I think you have to be sort of a psychologist in a way, um, where where you're really thinking about what's going on in other people's heads and and and and all of that stuff is important, as you know.
30:02
SPEAKER_02: Mm-hmm.
30:02
SPEAKER_00: Somebody told me a long time ago, they said, you know, if you when you learn, he because I was I was in my 20s when I started, I was 23 when I started my business.
30:12
SPEAKER_00: So I'm only I'm only 54 right now and I got 32 behind me, which is kind of nuts.
30:17
SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, thank you.
30:21
SPEAKER_00: And um, somebody told me a long time ago, he was like, Look, man, I'm gonna tell you the secret sauce to how you handle people.
30:27
SPEAKER_00: I was like, okay.
30:28
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, this guy doesn't know everything.
30:30
SPEAKER_00: He goes, as long as you're constantly giving the power back to them, you're actually more in control than you realize it, but you're still giving them the power.
30:41
SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, what do you mean by that?
30:43
SPEAKER_00: He goes, you know, um, when you have your kid, when you you don't tell your kid, I'm so proud of you, that's you owning it.
30:51
SPEAKER_00: You say you should be proud of yourself.
30:53
SPEAKER_00: You did so good, you're giving your kid the power.
30:56
SPEAKER_00: He goes, same results, but you're giving that person the power.
31:00
SPEAKER_00: I said, Okay.
31:00
SPEAKER_00: He goes, All right.
31:01
SPEAKER_00: So when you got that guy who's a pain in the booy to work with, find a way, acknowledge his issue where he's like, Oh, I don't like how my hair is.
31:10
SPEAKER_00: It's okay.
31:11
SPEAKER_00: Tell him, say, it could be combed a little bit better.
31:13
SPEAKER_00: Can I show you something real quick?
31:15
SPEAKER_00: Pull your phone out, put on a camera, reverse it, show him, say, fix it for me, brother.
31:19
SPEAKER_00: And he does a little finger thingy, he fixes it.
31:21
SPEAKER_00: You look like you look better than me, man.
31:22
SPEAKER_00: Back up, take the shot.
31:24
SPEAKER_00: And then when you show him the shot, say, I think you look great.
31:28
SPEAKER_00: What do you think?
31:29
SPEAKER_00: And now you give him the power to either take another damn picture, could he talk too, or he's gonna say, That's great, and you go, I agree, let's move on.
31:39
SPEAKER_00: Right, and to this day that it works, and it's just being kind, to be honest, it's not a trick, it's just being kind.
31:46
SPEAKER_02: But the problem with that method, and I'm being facetious, is that you have to check your ego at the door, yep.
31:54
SPEAKER_02: Which I find so many photographers, man, their ego is everything to them.
32:00
SPEAKER_02: And um, I don't know why.
32:02
SPEAKER_02: I I just weren't hugged enough by their mommy when they were growing up, or maybe their wife yells at them.
32:09
SPEAKER_02: Who the hell knows, man?
32:11
SPEAKER_02: But it's a thing, it's a thing.
32:12
SPEAKER_02: And so that's that's like I've heard stories from clients where the photographer is is like, no, we're doing it this way.
32:19
SPEAKER_02: This is like, what do you mean we're doing it this way?
32:21
SPEAKER_02: Like, who's paying who here?
32:23
SPEAKER_00: Right.
32:23
SPEAKER_02: Um, right.
32:24
SPEAKER_02: And and I'm I'm with you, man.
32:27
SPEAKER_02: Like when my when people come in and and I want them to leave happy.
32:31
SPEAKER_02: So if you want me to now, it doesn't mean you just do whatever they want because they don't know anything, right?
32:36
SPEAKER_02: What it means is that you guide them, but you take their input.
32:41
SPEAKER_02: So for me, it's very collaborative.
32:43
SPEAKER_02: Um, especially if it's if it's a shoot at my studio where we have time, there's a lot of collaboration because you obviously want them to be happy with the photo, but you gotta check your ego at the door, and you have to just remember that at the end of the day, you want them to be happy.
32:58
SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
33:00
SPEAKER_02: The best business advice that I could give anybody is just the golden rule.
33:06
SPEAKER_02: Just treat people like you want to be treated.
33:09
SPEAKER_02: Do do do to them what you'd want them to do to you if you are in their position.
33:14
SPEAKER_02: And if you do that, it's kind of hard to fail a business.
33:18
SPEAKER_02: It really is.
33:19
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, agreed.
33:20
SPEAKER_00: Agreed.
33:21
SPEAKER_00: That that 100% has been my secret sauce.
33:23
SPEAKER_00: I'm not lying.
33:24
SPEAKER_00: My my brides from 30 plus years ago, now their daughters are getting married, and right I'm getting a couple of those phone calls, and I'm not gonna lie, man.
33:33
SPEAKER_00: It's as humbling as all can be.
33:35
SPEAKER_00: And then at the same time, I'm like, oh, I'm she thinks her mom's pictures look good.
33:39
SPEAKER_00: Wait till I do it for this girl, Jesus.
33:41
SPEAKER_00: Like, I can't wait to show off.
33:43
SPEAKER_00: I want to show off for her for her, you know.
33:46
SPEAKER_00: Like, I want her to have this times a hundred, you know, compared to what her mom did.
33:50
SPEAKER_00: And her mom liked what we did, and we did it was good work, but watch this, you know.
33:55
SPEAKER_00: And I think as long as you're a testament, yeah.
33:58
SPEAKER_02: Oh god, like to that is to to you as a businessman, this is another thing that photographers, um, I think a lot of people jump a few years ago jumped into it, especially the headshot space.
34:10
SPEAKER_02: They jumped into it because they're like, this is quick, easy money.
34:13
SPEAKER_02: And it's not, there's no such thing.
34:16
SPEAKER_02: Uh it takes years to grow business, it takes years to create a reputation.
34:21
SPEAKER_02: And then when you have people like their literally their daughter, you you know, that you made such an impression on that bride 20 years ago that now their daughter or 20 to 25, 30 years ago that their daughter's getting married, and they're like that there's no one else they'll consider.
34:36
SPEAKER_02: That's that's amazing.
34:38
SPEAKER_02: And that's that's what we should all strive for as business people.
34:41
SPEAKER_02: Man, you don't need to advertise at all, then you don't need a weird marketing scheme.
34:46
SPEAKER_02: And I see that all the time with photographers.
34:48
SPEAKER_02: There's always some weird, silly marketing scheme, and and some of them are insulting to people's intelligence.
34:55
SPEAKER_02: We didn't why do that?
34:56
SPEAKER_02: Just do good work, treat them right, and they'll come back, you know?
35:00
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know what made my life a lot easier.
35:02
SPEAKER_00: And I mean, I mean, granted, I've always been of I don't know, maybe it's the Italian side of my mom or whatever that's always a pleaser, you know, just we just can't stop doing for people kind of thing.
35:14
SPEAKER_00: Um as a as a business, it's a superpower because you know, doing more for people is uh a blessing and a half.
35:21
SPEAKER_00: It'll always you doing the extra mile, whatever that is, we'll definitely um go.
35:27
SPEAKER_00: But I mean, I don't know about you, but I'm I'm still nervous before every job.
35:32
SPEAKER_00: Like if I have every time, every time, every night before an event, commercial, wedding, I don't care if I'm shooting food for a chef, it doesn't matter.
35:40
SPEAKER_00: I'm just always a little nervous before the job.
35:43
SPEAKER_00: And wifey's like, babe, three decades.
35:46
SPEAKER_00: What are you nervous about?
35:47
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, it's like that labor and delivery nurse.
35:50
SPEAKER_00: When she gets pregnant, she's freaking out because she knows too much.
35:55
SPEAKER_00: Right you know, for her own delivery.
35:57
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, we're the same thing.
35:59
SPEAKER_00: We know too much.
36:00
SPEAKER_00: I know what can happen.
36:01
SPEAKER_00: Things have happened in the past.
36:03
SPEAKER_00: That's why we have two cameras, two flashes, you know, double the car, double the batteries.
36:07
SPEAKER_00: It's why the bag is heavier than it was 15 years ago.
36:11
SPEAKER_02: Because we know too much, you know, but that nervousness also proves that you still care.
36:18
SPEAKER_02: I would be I if I wasn't nervous at all, then I'd be scared.
36:22
SPEAKER_02: Because then it would mean I'm going there and sort of phoning it in.
36:25
SPEAKER_02: Right.
36:25
SPEAKER_02: And so it goes back to exactly like the same way I feel when I have a gig, because there's always new variables.
36:32
SPEAKER_02: It's never, it's not like being a uh working in a cubicle for a company.
36:37
SPEAKER_02: You go in every day, you know what to expect.
36:39
SPEAKER_02: There's always some kind of variables that are new.
36:42
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
36:43
SPEAKER_02: So the fact that you're that you get that butterflies and and that little bit of nervousness, still it it to me, it shows that we actually still care and that we're also trying to outdo ourselves, right?
36:55
SPEAKER_02: Because every time I do a shoot, look, I got a shoot this Wednesday uh with a jazz pianist at one of the clubs in Manhattan.
37:02
SPEAKER_02: And I've been nervous about this for weeks.
37:05
SPEAKER_02: And it's not because I don't think I'm gonna do a good job, it's because I wanna I want the photos to be the best photos I've taken in my life up until that day.
37:12
SPEAKER_02: And so, and so I'm gonna I'm working really hard and and I'm I'm like really planning to make that happen.
37:18
SPEAKER_02: So I I think that's a that's a great thing.
37:21
SPEAKER_02: It's the way it should be.
37:22
SPEAKER_00: How do you get how do you find because I uh I don't like to copy anybody else, but you know, we all do need inspiration to some degree, you know.
37:31
SPEAKER_00: Like I still need to see a cool spotlight looking shot or something like that, and then I just make sure, okay, let me make sure I got that kind of a light source in my bag.
37:39
SPEAKER_00: If if the if it comes up, I'll know how to use it.
37:42
SPEAKER_00: And then it never fails because you don't wind up copying anyway, because it your scenario is in a different place, different lighting, every everything's different.
37:50
SPEAKER_00: Like your scenario is still your scenario, you know.
37:53
SPEAKER_00: How do you how do you kind of stay motivated?
37:57
SPEAKER_02: So um when I started playing music, when you when you learn jazz, the biggest thing that you're told to do by your teachers is transcribe.
38:06
SPEAKER_02: So basically, you just go in a room, you turn on, you know, back then I was CDs, turn on the CD of your hero.
38:17
SPEAKER_02: So, and then you just basically learn every note until you can play it along with the record.
38:22
SPEAKER_02: And that's how that's how musicians learn.
38:25
SPEAKER_02: That's that's the traditional way that jazz musicians learn, uh, went the main way.
38:29
SPEAKER_02: So when I was when I got into portrait photography, I found a photographer whose work inspired me.
38:36
SPEAKER_02: And then I just did some mentoring with that person.
38:40
SPEAKER_02: They taught me some stuff how they did it, and then I just copied exactly what they told me to do.
38:45
SPEAKER_02: Um and then I've then eventually um my own style, I think, started to emerge.
38:53
SPEAKER_02: So that's what happens when, and I did that with a number of photographers.
38:56
SPEAKER_02: So different photographers who inspire me, I will figure out their lighting, or if it's someone who's who's around that you can ask.
39:04
SPEAKER_02: Like most photographers that I've uh mentored with are very open and they'll they'll show you how they do stuff, and then you know, some stuff sticks with you.
39:13
SPEAKER_02: And then as you do it, your own style is going to emerge anyway.
39:17
SPEAKER_02: So that's that's worked for me.
39:18
SPEAKER_02: I think that's it's whatever you do, you gotta be inspired.
39:22
SPEAKER_02: So the other way I'm inspired is I have like a ton of photo books.
39:26
SPEAKER_02: So, you know, if I'm if I'm trying to come up with ideas, I'll just look at like my Peter Lindbergh book or you know, Gregory Heisler or Platon or Annie Liebowitz.
39:37
SPEAKER_02: I have all these books right in my studio, and I find that just going through those books, um and and especially for portrait shoots, you get so much inspiration.
39:47
SPEAKER_02: Um, so I think it's it's both of those things.
39:49
SPEAKER_02: And then also finding good mentors.
39:51
SPEAKER_02: Like I've I've had a lot of great mentors who have taught me a lot.
39:55
SPEAKER_02: And so if you want to fast track your growth as an artist and especially as a business person, you got to get a mentor.
40:01
SPEAKER_02: It's why figure it out on your own if you if there's someone who's been there who's willing to teach you.
40:06
SPEAKER_02: So that's that's what's kind of worked for me.
40:09
SPEAKER_00: Agreed.
40:10
SPEAKER_00: Agreed totally.
40:11
SPEAKER_00: My whole, you know, back when I was learning all this, it was film, only film.
40:15
SPEAKER_00: So if I didn't uh go to the PPA events and pay for the classes and all that stuff, you weren't really learning anything new.
40:23
SPEAKER_00: YouTube didn't exist, the internet wasn't really cranking yet.
40:26
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, um, you know, even when it was up and running, YouTube wasn't I don't think I forget how old YouTube is, but it wasn't out there in 95.
40:34
SPEAKER_02: Um no, 2006, I think, or 2007, somewhere like that.
40:38
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, man.
40:39
SPEAKER_00: You see, so I started my business um October 1st of 94.
40:43
SPEAKER_00: And I know so that gap from that to YouTube, and even then when YouTube started, it was just stuff.
40:50
SPEAKER_00: It's kind of like TikTok.
40:51
SPEAKER_00: TikTok was dancing and stuff until where it is now.
40:55
SPEAKER_00: And um, YouTube had it had its own little journey as well.
40:59
SPEAKER_00: Um, so speaking of, how do you how do you like your your YouTube channel?
41:04
SPEAKER_00: You're finding it easy to maintain, you still like doing it.
41:08
SPEAKER_00: No, is it aggravating you?
41:11
SPEAKER_02: Yes, it is aggravating.
41:13
SPEAKER_02: I mean, the thing is, um, you know what it is?
41:18
SPEAKER_02: It's it's the most, like I would say 99% of the people who interact with a YouTuber, if you have a YouTube channel, are great.
41:28
SPEAKER_02: But it's that 1% that's nasty and obnoxious that you just remember and that bothers you.
41:34
SPEAKER_01: So I've learned Yeah, yeah, me too.
41:37
SPEAKER_02: I troll the trolls.
41:39
SPEAKER_00: I love to troll the trolls, man.
41:41
SPEAKER_02: And I I enjoy doing it, I do, but it's it's like if you do it with any expectation nowadays.
41:47
SPEAKER_02: Like when I first started, I've had it for I guess five or six years I've been doing it.
41:51
SPEAKER_02: And I would I had a back of three years ago, I could post a video and I would know it's gonna do really well based on what I'm talking about.
41:59
SPEAKER_02: And I felt like I really had a good community, like especially with the Fujifilm people, because my channel was heavily into the Fujifilm realm and and I felt the real sense of community, but I don't really feel that now.
42:12
SPEAKER_02: And I think it's because they've changed the algorithms, of course, and there's a lot of other stuff going on.
42:18
SPEAKER_02: People are on different different apps, so I'm not as into it as I was.
42:22
SPEAKER_02: Um, so I'm posting less than I was and uh just trying to put my energies where I feel like there's a there's a better return.
42:30
SPEAKER_02: Plus, it's also because I'm very busy.
42:32
SPEAKER_02: So when I first like the YouTube channel, I would post three videos a week because I didn't have that much going on, but now I'm a lot busier than I was when I started, so I don't have the time to be posting even one video a week as a challenge.
42:44
SPEAKER_02: So if I do, I try and do at least once a month.
42:47
SPEAKER_02: Um, but you just never know.
42:49
SPEAKER_02: And then sometimes you just never know.
42:51
SPEAKER_02: You I'll post something, I'll be like, This is the worst video I've ever made, and people will love it and it'll pop off.
42:56
SPEAKER_02: You know how it goes.
42:57
SPEAKER_02: Right.
42:58
SPEAKER_02: So, but I haven't given up on it yet.
43:00
SPEAKER_02: That's where I'm at.
43:02
SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
43:03
SPEAKER_00: I got videos that are still hitting views from like five years ago or whatever, and I'm like, Yes, and and people will comment like it's brand new, you know, like, oh yeah, I just got that flash last weekend, you were right.
43:15
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, I don't use that flash anymore.
43:17
SPEAKER_00: It's yeah, it's six years, man.
43:20
SPEAKER_01: Six years.
43:21
SPEAKER_01: It's like funny.
43:22
SPEAKER_00: Oh, okay.
43:23
SPEAKER_00: And I I just keep it positive, but um, yeah, it's rare that I get a troll, but what do you when that person, you know, I'm I'm always like, first of all, I'm gonna assume you're 12 or you have whiskey in your hand because this question is dumb.
43:36
SPEAKER_00: But let me educate you a little bit.
43:38
SPEAKER_00: And blah blah blah blah blah blah.
43:40
SPEAKER_00: It's kind of like, oh, they didn't expect the guy to respond, you know.
43:44
SPEAKER_00: It's crazy.
43:45
SPEAKER_00: No, no, don't worry about it.
43:47
SPEAKER_02: People will say well, they'll just they'll say things online that they would never have the nerve to say to your face.
43:53
SPEAKER_02: That's the problem with it.
43:54
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and then half of them are bots.
43:56
SPEAKER_02: That's the other thing.
43:57
SPEAKER_02: You don't even know if it's a real person at this point.
43:59
SPEAKER_02: So you
44:02
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
44:02
SPEAKER_00: When I met uh Cody Wanner back when he was he was new, I was like, hey man, all those little angry, weird people, they're all 12 years old.
44:13
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
44:14
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, I'm serious, dude.
44:16
SPEAKER_00: They're bots, they're they're they don't even worry about it.
44:18
SPEAKER_00: Don't even stress, they're not even real, you know, not even real.
44:22
SPEAKER_00: Well, sir, I am so glad you had a chance to finally get on here, and we are definitely gonna do this again because um I want to go down the Fuji rabbit hole.
44:30
SPEAKER_00: Um, that's how I found you, by the way.
44:32
SPEAKER_00: That is how I originally found you.
44:34
SPEAKER_00: And um, you know, it's the one thing I love about I do like YouTube.
44:40
SPEAKER_00: Uh like you though, I don't one, I don't have the time.
44:43
SPEAKER_00: Sometimes I feel like the video is not even worthy.
44:45
SPEAKER_00: I'll just delete it.
44:46
SPEAKER_00: And doing doing the quicker content is just more simple kind of thing, you know.
44:52
SPEAKER_00: Right.
44:53
SPEAKER_00: But um, I follow you, everybody else.
44:55
SPEAKER_00: Uh if you need to go check him out on his Instagram page, go Pete Coco Photo.
44:59
SPEAKER_00: He is on Instagram, he's obviously on YouTube as well.
45:03
SPEAKER_00: Um, but you have a good look for your photography, and I love your angle on what your story is, being uh the musician part of it.
45:13
SPEAKER_00: Everybody loves New York, you know.
45:15
SPEAKER_00: There's also you you have things that I don't have here in New Orleans, you know, so you're easy, uh you're easy to follow.
45:22
SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
45:22
SPEAKER_00: When I see a video from you, I'm like, press play.
45:26
SPEAKER_00: Cool.
45:26
SPEAKER_00: Press play.
45:28
SPEAKER_02: I'm glad someone does doing that.
45:31
SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah, man.
45:33
SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah.
45:33
SPEAKER_00: And like another buddy of mine, he's like, I'm not sure, you know, about the growth.
45:37
SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, dude, you just hit 10k subs.
45:39
SPEAKER_00: That's amazing.
45:40
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I'm still at 2500.
45:42
SPEAKER_00: He's like, Yeah, that's hard to do today, too.
45:45
SPEAKER_00: It's very hard, you know?
45:46
SPEAKER_00: And and I told him, uh, um, do you do you use the community uh aspect, the community section of the YouTube control panel thing?
45:57
SPEAKER_02: Um, I do, I do, yeah.
45:59
SPEAKER_02: Sometimes that's fun to post photos and and just like talk with people.
46:03
SPEAKER_02: I mean like I'll I'll usually do like up and coming stuff, whenever I'm gonna release a video and post some photos.
46:09
SPEAKER_00: I think I think he posted some stuff.
46:11
SPEAKER_00: And I was like, hey man, I said I I respect and love my my 10 super fans that whenever I post a video, those same 10, ones from in um Ireland, two are from Australia, you know, a couple are from over here.
46:26
SPEAKER_00: I'm going.
46:26
SPEAKER_00: As long as you're posting for your 10, screw the other 5,000, screw everybody else.
46:33
SPEAKER_02: It's easy, it's easy to forget that, but it's so true.
46:36
SPEAKER_02: Those are the people that support you from from day one, and then they'll support you through thick and thin, too.
46:41
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's all you do, man.
46:42
SPEAKER_00: Talk to your 10, and everything else just kind of falls into place, you know.
46:46
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, true.
46:47
SPEAKER_00: So um, all right, man, I'm gonna get out of here.
46:49
SPEAKER_00: I got some client work to go do, but um, I appreciate you.
46:52
SPEAKER_00: I love your time and your talent.
46:54
SPEAKER_00: Thank you for giving it to me a little bit.
46:55
SPEAKER_00: And uh I I want to I want to come see you.
46:58
SPEAKER_00: Let me know if you ever do go play a gig sometime.
47:01
SPEAKER_00: Uh, you know, if I can hop on a flight, I'll come out there and see you.
47:05
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I'll I'm I'm doing it.
47:07
SPEAKER_02: I'm I'm still playing a little bit, so it'll be great to to hang in real life.
47:11
SPEAKER_02: Bring your camera, you can take my photo.
47:13
SPEAKER_00: Heck yeah, heck yeah.
47:14
SPEAKER_00: I do want I do want to get back to New York, man, with a two years ago with uh my wife and I for uh 25-year anniversary.
47:21
SPEAKER_00: And I gotta say, man, it's like a piece of my home.
47:24
SPEAKER_00: There's that's like the I call it my little New York attitude, you know.
47:27
SPEAKER_00: And you don't know you don't know what you don't know what it is until you're there.
47:30
SPEAKER_00: Like you don't know what I mean until you're there.
47:33
SPEAKER_00: You know, just it's true, just walk around.
47:35
SPEAKER_00: You'll you'll figure it out, you know.
47:37
SPEAKER_00: All right, man.
47:38
SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna get out of here.
47:39
SPEAKER_00: I got some my own band, my own rock band outro.
47:42
SPEAKER_00: And uh I appreciate you, Brother Pete.
47:45
SPEAKER_00: Thank you, sir.
47:45
SPEAKER_00: Thanks, UK.