Latest / Outside TG / Episode 60: Shawn Thomas TG Tribute

Transcript

Episode 60: Shawn Thomas TG Tribute · Outside TG

0:10
Hi, this is Charlie. This is Jeff.
0:12
And welcome back to another TG tribute podcast we got Chris,
0:17
how old here? Hey, Chris.
0:18
Hey, guys. How you doing?
0:19
I'm excellent. Awesome.
0:21
Yeah, we got a special guest today, none other than Mr. Shawn
0:25
Thomas. So welcome, Shawn.
0:27
Hi, nice to be here I think. Yeah.
0:32
Yeah, you're on the easy on you. You're on the hot seat.
0:34
Yeah, Jinx. So let's get this started.
0:40
Sean, how many years you've been a tweak approximately?
0:43
You don't have to tell us exactly if you're not
0:44
comfortable with it, but. I think this past July it was
0:48
36. 36 Quick Math 1990. 89 so maybe I'm wrong, maybe it's
0:57
more. I'm guessing you're right since
1:00
you were here. So what?
1:04
What brought you here? What?
1:05
How'd you end up at Tweak Garrett in 1989?
1:08
I well, I went to, I graduated in 88 from high school.
1:12
I went to college for one year and decided this was not for me.
1:17
So a friend of my parents, Lyle Wilford, who was working for
1:21
Tweak Garrett at the time at Saint Vincent's, told me about
1:27
the, the, I think it was a newly, probably in the last
1:31
contract pre apprenticeship. So I was in the first pre
1:38
apprentice class, we'll call it, because everything before that
1:41
you were either an apprentice or you weren't anything.
1:45
So I started as a pre apprentice.
1:48
I I got an interview with Tom and I got hired right away and
1:55
started at Saint Vincent's on the HPRP.
1:58
Job was an addition and remodel of Saint Vincent Hospital in
2:02
1989. I don't know if Tom like Tom
2:08
comes up in these a lot and he's either like, it doesn't sound
2:12
like he recruited you. So he's either like Phil Jackson
2:16
that he just inherits this like incredible team, or we had this,
2:20
or he's just like was really good at continuing to.
2:25
And maybe there were others and maybe he was great at like
2:28
filtering people out. But it feels like he inherited
2:31
like this really wonderful group of people that somehow found him
2:35
in the like 80s and early 90s. Well, I mean without saying any
2:41
names, there were some duds. There were some.
2:44
OK, All right, perfect. I do feel like if you did one of
2:47
those word cloud things on the TG Tribute podcast, Tom would
2:51
be. Like one of the biggest.
2:53
Yeah. So you did you get introduced to
2:56
Tom? Did you come in the office?
2:57
How did the I? Filled out probably how would I
3:00
remember, but I'm sure I filled out an application and then I
3:04
interviewed with Tom and it wasn't much after that I.
3:08
Started as a pre apprentice and then how long until your
3:11
apprenticeship? It was then it was you had one
3:15
year and if you didn't get one you had to be cut free.
3:19
But listening to Davies, he must have been at the same wedding.
3:25
I cornered Tom at the bar and got him to write it down on it.
3:29
I should have kept it probably a cocktail napkin that he was
3:33
giving me an apprenticeship and he was a man of his word.
3:36
And next week he says you're getting it.
3:37
And I think it was 11 months and that would probably probably
3:42
didn't. It was probably not official
3:44
until usually August was the dates for getting into school
3:49
and but yeah it was one year at that time.
3:52
How many drinks had Tom had at that?
3:54
.0 I'm sure it was. Massima's been monitoring.
3:56
Scotch. And Taylor's hammer.
3:59
I might have been feeding them it, yeah.
4:01
Another doers for that guy at the end of the bar.
4:04
I think when you think back and and think about all the, let's
4:07
just say plumbers that we have, a lot of them have been somebody
4:11
they know somebody. Yeah, you know, like the family
4:14
feel of the company. I mean, I was kind of brought in
4:16
that way and obviously you were. Yeah, I didn't.
4:19
I didn't have anybody that. I had somebody that brought me
4:23
in. I had an uncle that was owned
4:25
his own business up in Iron Mountain as a fitter, but I that
4:30
I didn't want to live up that way, so it's.
4:31
Kind of like people are vouching for these guys are hiring and
4:34
you know how the team's been getting so strong.
4:37
That's the only thing I can think of.
4:39
You know you're not going to tell some Yahoo to come in here
4:42
if you don't vote for him yourself, you know, right?
4:46
So. So what jobs do you remember
4:48
from early on? You mentioned one already, but
4:50
what else? Anything stick out to you?
4:57
Saint Vincent's, I was there for quite a while and then when Fort
5:01
Howard did a big boiler and paper mill, I went there with
5:05
John Rochowski and was there for quite a while.
5:08
I mean, it was you did it all. I mean, we bounced around, but I
5:13
was mostly with Eddie John Merczykowski and then John
5:18
worked with me at various projects until he retired.
5:24
Milt Ross was another one. I was, I spent a lot of time at
5:27
the hospitals between Bell and and Saint Vincent's and then the
5:31
then I ended up at the mill and then the last I was a, my last
5:37
job as an apprentice. I'd done some work and then I
5:41
tested out on, you know, I did some smaller jobs and then I
5:45
helped Eddie at Appleton North High School.
5:48
That was his pretty much his last big one.
5:53
And he actually ended up falling a little ill at the end of that
5:56
job, or kind of in the middle. So Lyle and I finished it.
6:00
I know you're going back and you're talking about, you know,
6:02
you're bringing up all these old, old timer names that I,
6:04
when I started, they were still here yet to it's kind of you got
6:06
to work with those guys back in the day.
6:07
How was Eddie Delcour to work with?
6:10
I mean, you got to be on the job sites with him.
6:12
I mean it, sometimes I would have been around for that.
6:15
I remember working with him and working with, let's say I was
6:19
partnered with a different person and another journeyman
6:22
and he would give the instructions and, you know, he
6:25
had that Belgian twang that, that I've had guys go.
6:29
Do you know what he said? I see.
6:31
I got it. Don't worry about it because it
6:33
was. But at the beginning it was, Oh,
6:36
yeah, I'm like, I don't know what he said because he's, he
6:40
spoke very fast and he had a little.
6:43
He's one of the last guys in the area that was speaking Belgian
6:46
slash Walhun, whatever that language that they spoke, and
6:49
half of it was probably half and half.
6:51
I know. And so I had, yeah, there were
6:53
people that would look at me like I got it, don't worry about
6:55
it, let's go. So I was sometimes an
6:58
interpreter. It was funny.
7:01
So going back to when you're coming through, I mean, who are
7:04
some of your mentors? Like who did you look up to
7:05
back? Where'd you learn most of your
7:07
stuff from? A lot with Ed and then Lyle, I
7:10
mean at the hospital that was a great those are great jobs to
7:12
start with. I mean you're seeing all the Med
7:14
gas, all the all the plumbing, the storm.
7:18
I mean it's. A lot of planning.
7:20
A lot. Of planning and that was and
7:22
that was a great job too. The architect was really good.
7:25
I mean that drawings I got to learn a lot of stuff reading
7:29
plans and I'll say one thing like Ed what he and this was at
7:36
Carla jeans, so you know where this real sure, but he's.
7:39
Not there anymore. But he told me and I, I still
7:42
bring this up to other learn, you know, we know our drawings,
7:48
You look at them. But I said you should spend more
7:49
time in other people's drawings and meld your stuff into that.
7:54
That's your job is to take your your stuff and get it in to fit
7:58
with everybody else's stuff. And a lot of guys, sometimes
8:01
they're focused on their plumbing plans.
8:03
I'm like, Nah, look at every you got to look at it all because I
8:06
mean, if you think you're going to run all this through and then
8:09
also in the sheet melt, well, they're going to move there.
8:10
You're going to get bumped. So you got to move, meld your
8:13
stuff with everybody else's stuff and you'll turn out to be
8:16
a good, you know, a good plumber.
8:18
And that served me well. That'll kind of bring the end to
8:23
like doing it like you did back in the day versus what's going
8:26
on today. Can you explain a little bit of
8:27
the transition of wallet technology has been helping?
8:31
I mean, it's pretty crazy what's going on in these days.
8:34
Yes, I, I, I, I love it, but I still think it's the old you're
8:39
still doing it the same way. Just putting a techie spin on it
8:43
is that, and that's the cool because you can see it before
8:47
you're doing it too. I mean, a lot of guys don't
8:50
have, I would say that they don't have the vision to be able
8:55
to see things without it being there.
8:58
And there are some guys that have it, some guys that don't.
9:01
But here are now you can't help but not see it because it's on a
9:04
screen before we're even boots on the ground.
9:07
That's that's pretty neat. Yeah.
9:10
I should have done this at the beginning, but can you kind of
9:12
so talk, talk about your career trajectory because you spent a
9:16
lot of time in the field, you talked about your
9:20
apprenticeship, you obviously worked as a foreman for a number
9:23
of years, but now you're doing something different.
9:26
So can you talk about that career trajectory?
9:29
And then then we can kind of tie into some of the the changes
9:32
that tweak your, you've seen it tweak your over the time, I
9:34
mean. Started as a pre, got my
9:37
apprenticeship 4 years went through it and started running
9:41
work. Was on countless jobs down.
9:47
If you ask me how many, I couldn't tell you.
9:48
And if if you ask me what my favorite one was, I'm going to
9:52
say they were all good to some were better than others.
9:56
Not a single bad one. Or don't want to call anybody
10:01
out again. No, I, I remember on a job, this
10:03
was, I got yelled at by a project.
10:06
It was a construction management outfit.
10:10
They, no, they didn't yell at me, but the owner's Rep or the
10:13
people in the, in the facility because he was asking us to do
10:17
stuff illegally. And I says I can't.
10:20
It was a food place too. And I'm not going to name it,
10:22
but it's like, I mean, I got yelled at like I never did
10:27
growing up. And I'm like, wow.
10:30
And the guy that was the construction management at the
10:32
time, well, I'll say there it was Fruitcon.
10:34
And the guy goes, wow, you held it together.
10:36
I'm like, I went back to the office and I said, Tom, I'm not
10:40
going back. And he goes, that's OK.
10:41
They don't want you back. I'm like, whoa, he says.
10:45
You go there and get your gang boxes tomorrow.
10:47
We're not going back there because it wasn't that I want I
10:51
told the guy, I said it's not that I I can't or I don't want
10:56
to do it. I can't.
10:57
I can't For me, I got a license and tweak Garrett.
11:00
We we I couldn't. I couldn't.
11:03
He just didn't understand. You're talking like plumbing
11:05
coats. Oh yeah, I was plumbing coat and
11:07
water and he just. The place was a nightmare, but
11:10
they let, I mean, they had their own people doing stuff that
11:13
didn't know what they're doing. And it's like, I'm not putting
11:16
my name to this. And the guy I was working with,
11:20
it was John Murkowski. He's like, we can't do this.
11:22
I'm like, I agree. I said.
11:24
And I got my butt handed to me and I but Tom had my back.
11:31
So I'm yeah, I mean, we never went back.
11:32
I mean, I'm. Going to make a note to ask you
11:34
who that company is after the podcast so I can avoid it in the
11:38
grocery store. Credit to you guys that's I
11:41
didn't mean to take us on that tangent.
11:43
I know we were talking about your career trajectory.
11:44
I just. But then I mean, there was
11:48
schools. I mean, there was, it was kind
11:50
of neat. I remember a job in Oshkosh, it
11:53
was Karl Traeger Elementary. So after doing working with
11:58
Eddie at Appleton North, which at the time was the biggest
12:01
school in the state, then I did my own.
12:03
It wasn't quite as large, but it was and was in a different local
12:07
because we were still, we weren't 400.
12:10
So it was down in Oshka. So it was Fond du Lac as was two
12:14
man travel. So it was me and a guy from up
12:16
here. We went down there and what
12:17
worked with two of their guys and it was amazing.
12:20
Four guys knocked that school out and I was watching the HVAC
12:23
company. It was it was a non signatory
12:26
one and they had like there must have been 40 guys there and it
12:29
was just us four and we just kept pecking away and we did
12:33
really good on the job. It was fun.
12:35
I mean, think about the jobs that you ran.
12:37
I mean, I mean anything plumbing, you've ran it.
12:40
I mean, we've done that. The acuities, the huge insurance
12:42
Billings, a huge mega church. I mean, these big huge hospitals
12:46
go again. Yeah, there's a lot of.
12:47
You've been a part of a lot of different stuff you have to eat
12:49
throughout the years. Just drive down Hwy. 41 like.
12:53
Your wife must be like. What?
12:54
You just speak like I did. That I did that.
12:58
And I'll say this, and this is probably something that because
13:01
I when I listen to Davies podcast, Tom told me I should
13:06
have kept the log book. He probably told Davy too, and I
13:10
didn't, and I kind of regret. I'll just vote everything you've
13:13
done, worked on. Yeah, yeah.
13:14
He said he brought it up right away and I, I barely wanted to
13:18
do my time that 'd. Be interesting to go back and
13:22
look. At now I wish I would a lot of
13:24
jobs, yeah. So I I keep telling the younger
13:26
ones and they all look at me the same, same thing I did to Tom
13:29
probably and they probably won't do the same thing, but maybe
13:32
there'll be 1. So keep going So so foreman for
13:39
a lot of years now. So at the hospital, so the.
13:44
Yeah. So like the last big one was the
13:47
Sheboygan Hospital. And then at the end, you know,
13:51
we were at our peak, we had 34 plumbers.
13:56
And at the end, you know, so now we're getting at the end of the
13:59
job. And it was me and an apprentice
14:00
that stayed down there. So I'm driving back and forth to
14:02
Sheboygan by myself, working with him, hooking up, final
14:07
hookups. I mean, probably at the last
14:09
three months. And it was getting to the point
14:11
where on Thursday and Friday, I didn't want to do anything on
14:17
Saturday and Sunday because my knees and my usually it was my
14:20
knees were so damn sore from doing what I was doing that I
14:25
didn't want to do anything on the weekend.
14:26
So I said I got to find something different.
14:28
So I kind of approached a couple people here and I kind of
14:32
jokingly say I created a position at tweaking tweak gear,
14:35
didn't know they needed and I've been doing it turned into what
14:40
we're calling a project planner. At the time it was 8.
14:43
I'll just take care of this for the for the jobs for the guys
14:45
and help them out. Look at stuff way before they
14:48
could get a plan, help them out. And that's kind of what I've
14:53
been doing ever since. I mean, there's more to it than
14:55
that, though. Can you get into the detail?
14:56
Like what exactly is that involved with the technology?
14:59
I mean, you can. You're talking total station.
15:00
You're talking, I mean, you get into all this stuff.
15:02
It's crazy what you've been doing.
15:05
Yeah, I mean, that's a side thing to what I'm, you know, I'm
15:09
supposed to, I'm a project planner, but I am also the guy
15:11
that pretty much, I mean, I mean, Mike is, it's his
15:14
department, but it's kind of me driving at least on the plumbing
15:18
side. And I wish we could do more, and
15:20
I think we could be doing more, but.
15:23
What does more look like? Like talk about some of your
15:25
vision for this? I just approached him.
15:29
So we right now we're doing some pretty cool stuff with the total
15:32
station and it strictly a lot of it underground, but I'm trying
15:36
to take the same thing that we're doing underground and
15:39
bringing it above ground. I think we could be doing a lot
15:43
more layout and we just got to purchase a few things that
15:46
didn't even know they existed. And Nelson, wow, this exists
15:50
too. So we're, it's it's, we haven't
15:54
done it yet, but I I got some ideas.
15:56
So talk, talk about it like talk about what do you see is
16:00
possible. Oh, what I just brought up to
16:03
Mike the other day was we have this thing called the auto pole
16:07
that you don't have to level it. So I'm thinking we could take, I
16:10
said, do they make a short 1? And we found out that they do.
16:14
And I'm envisioning a guy in a scissor lift been able to touch
16:20
a let's say I got 100. It could be ductwork, it could
16:23
be pipe or plumbing. A pitch pipe, pitch pipe would
16:27
be cool because we can layout all instead of laying out
16:29
points, we can lay out a line. So I can touch this beam and
16:36
it'll tell me which way to slide on the beam that the center of
16:39
the pipe will be. And I'm thinking if I, if I get
16:43
people to do what I need with the points, it'll be able to
16:47
tell me that the, the bottom of that hanger at that at that
16:50
location. So let's say we don't model the
16:53
hangers, but we'll be able to touch it in every spot, put the
16:56
hangers up. And I, I know when it's all said
17:00
and done, if it was level, if it was a level pipe or a level
17:03
duct, it would be level all the way through.
17:04
So if the beams are varied, don't care if it's a pitched
17:08
pipe and the beams vary. It'll figure that in.
17:10
It'll figure it in. I mean, we're still going to
17:12
think, but it's going to tell us, hey, we got to come down to
17:14
feet. If you move over 4 feet, it's
17:16
going to tell us we got to come down to foot less plus another
17:20
half inch for pit. You know, it's going to do it.
17:23
I mean, those are just little things that a couple years ago
17:28
wouldn't even think of that's. Can you create more work in our
17:30
manufacturing facilities that way?
17:32
That's what we're trying to do. I mean, yeah, more controlled
17:34
work. Yes, yeah.
17:37
I mean the fab shop that's I mean right now we're booming, I
17:41
mean plumbing wise anyways, or as much as we can handle.
17:46
Yeah. So talk about your in your
17:48
impact there because you had a huge impact.
17:50
So what are you, what are the specific things you're doing to
17:54
help foreman upfront that this and and you're helping Robbie
17:59
upfront too because typically Robbie would get plans later in
18:03
the process and was kind of reacting and it feels very
18:07
proactive now. What I found out and I didn't
18:09
realize this, I did like when Rob was even when Dan Lawrence
18:14
was, I would drop stuff and send and tell him this is what I
18:16
want. A lot of the guys I didn't
18:19
realize would come to Robin or the role of plans and say here
18:24
fab this stuff and didn't tell him what they wanted.
18:28
So now with all this technology and models, I'm able to get into
18:35
getting what, you know, instead of just guessing, sticking a
18:40
foot above. I mean, do we still sometimes do
18:42
that? Yes.
18:43
You know, when we don't have all the information, I'll talk to
18:46
them. Yeah, let's stick it above a
18:47
foot above the ceiling and wait, we go from there.
18:50
But here I can get us right where we need to be with with
18:56
elevations and stuff. And I, and, and that was just, a
18:59
lot of that was just me thinking and using what I had Now with
19:04
these models, if we're starting to get better at it, I'm not,
19:08
I'm able just to take this the stuff out of the model and just
19:11
put it right in there. That's kind of neat.
19:14
I mean, and now Rob can just be building.
19:16
He's not having to figure out what to build.
19:19
I can just, I can send it to him.
19:21
That's a great way to frame it. That's and that's huge.
19:24
Because he makes more, they make more time.
19:27
Or if he's not having to do that stuff and then then he can get
19:31
all the bills and materials off this.
19:33
I mean, he's ordering, He's not having to take time to figure it
19:36
out. There's lots of efficiencies to
19:38
be gained. So essentially you're, you're
19:41
saving a lot of time for the field foreman and the shop
19:44
foreman and you're like the middle man that touches
19:46
everything, right? That makes a lot of sense that I
19:48
was always saying eventually there's going to be like 4,
19:51
Sean, you know, maybe. And there's a lot of times we
19:55
can get a, you know, I've looked at jobs that we don't even know
19:59
who the foreman is. And to be honest with you, I
20:01
don't care who they are because I'm planning stuff that we're
20:05
going to do no matter who takes it over.
20:08
And now I guess I could someday up maybe maybe we'll run into a
20:11
guy. So that's not how I'm going to
20:13
do it. But so far it's they see it.
20:16
OK, you know it, I'm kind of taking a little, we'll call it.
20:21
We're pre thinking right before they're even involved.
20:24
I mean, and that's, I think that's pretty.
20:27
We're creating also there's a different way to think about it
20:30
and I think about it through this lens sometimes is if we're
20:34
working for AGC and we work for, we work for owners too.
20:39
And those are those jobs are different.
20:41
We have to build relationships and we have to, you know, focus
20:45
on the account. But if we're working for AGC,
20:48
our competitive advantage oftentimes is literally just
20:52
speed. And if you are, if you are
20:56
eliminating giant steps for the foreman and you're eliminating
21:00
steps for Robbie that thus the amount of the the speed increase
21:05
that we're getting on these on how how quickly we can get to a
21:08
project, how quickly we can be done with underground.
21:11
Those are like we're seeing it, we're seeing it in Bay Mills,
21:15
how far ahead we are of everyone else.
21:19
We're we're the speed is what we're capturing and that becomes
21:22
a giant competitive advantage for us.
21:23
It'll and it allows us to be actually, we are competitive
21:26
with anybody right now. We can be competitive with non
21:29
union guys because we are so much faster that it erases the
21:33
the wage gap. So it's really, it's really
21:37
something that we need to keep building around, which is why I
21:39
kind of am asking you questions around it and excited that more
21:42
people are going to get to hear about what you're doing.
21:44
This was This is where I like an aha type thing that I didn't
21:50
realize at the time when I did, I was at the at at the stadium
21:54
doing the the title town Plaza and then the Johnsonville
21:59
Tailgate Village. And the, you know, I was in
22:03
charge of I was doing both and the two foreman on it was Myron
22:07
on both really didn't care about each other's job.
22:10
But the, the, the tailgate village, they go OK, you know,
22:14
Myron had their stuff in Now it's my turn to dig.
22:19
How much time do you need? I says, I think I need 5 days.
22:22
Good, you got three. I'm like, why are you know, I'm
22:25
like, why are you even asking me?
22:27
So I'm like, OK, if I'm going to do this in three.
22:30
So that we prefabbed and what we did is we had points and I was
22:35
able to get measurements off the tablet before.
22:38
So I had Robbie make all this stuff.
22:40
We were kind of doing it before we had any software, but we're I
22:43
just got all the measurements out of here and if he made it to
22:46
that, it would go in to the total station.
22:49
I remember driving across town with you made this up as Austin.
22:54
It got a little larger than what I figured and I was driving
22:57
across town in the dark to get the fab to the to the to the job
23:03
site and we got it in like and guys were like, this is never
23:05
going to work. Also, they're like, wow, we had
23:07
that bar roughed in like I went over, we have the Christmas
23:09
party. I'm like thinking, shit, we did
23:11
this in. It was a couple hours.
23:13
We had that because we had more time on the beverage conduits
23:16
because that we couldn't prefab. But I mean, we, yeah, we were
23:20
done and I think we're done in less than three days, but we
23:23
made stuff up. Plumbing wise, that's a huge
23:25
thing. I remember when that this first
23:27
came out, we started doing that at a Cutie Cutie.
23:29
It was me, you and Craig and. Just think how stupid.
23:32
We were so dumb. Like you're taking the pole and
23:35
like, but it was so much faster. We didn't have to think.
23:39
I didn't. A lot of people, a lot of guys
23:41
entrusted right away. I mean, you know.
23:43
I didn't know. What it could do but.
23:45
Look how it evolved and how it seems.
23:46
That seems like every two months something new is cool.
23:49
Yeah. And that took us, I think, for
23:51
the. First year that total station
23:52
either sat in the tool crib or at your.
23:55
House that was that was the first job I and that Oh yeah,
24:01
now I look at that thing. That thing sucked compared to
24:03
what we got now, but I'm like wow, this is cool.
24:10
Yeah. I'm, I'm just sitting here
24:13
listening to this and it's somebody who has been like
24:16
trying to push technology here for the better part of 30 years.
24:20
And as like I don't even know how to put it into words because
24:26
I don't have the credibility because I haven't been out there
24:29
like you have, like I don't, you mentioned before, like we need 4
24:31
Shawn Thomas's. The problem is there is only one
24:34
Shawn Thomas, like you have the 30 years of experience before
24:39
you took on the total station. And now that it's working for
24:42
you, people will listen to you when you say it works like
24:45
they're you're a Unicorn. There aren't too many people
24:47
like that like it. And it's so appreciated from
24:50
where I sit to see somebody who, you know, we've, we've come up
24:54
with 1000 different technology ideas here over the years.
24:56
And some of them fall by the wayside, some because they just
24:59
weren't good, others because people wouldn't use them.
25:01
But because you took this thing and used it, now, like you said,
25:06
we can, we can install as quickly as anybody now.
25:09
Like, and that's, I don't know, it's refreshing to sit where I
25:12
am to be like, wow, something that we dreamt up someday.
25:17
How many years ago actually worked, you know, like, and
25:19
people, somebody with your level of credibility is now like using
25:25
it and teaching other people to use it like that.
25:27
That blows my mind. But it took, it took some time.
25:30
I mean, it evolved. I mean, we've had one for I
25:32
don't. Know 10 years.
25:34
I mean, at the beginning it was I, I was even approachable.
25:39
Can you do all the plumbing stuff?
25:41
I'm like, that's not going to ever add up to even 40 hours of
25:44
work. So what is, how is this going to
25:45
work? But now just my role and I, it's
25:51
not that I'm all I'm really doing is getting, it's making
25:55
sure that they're starting off on the right foot because you
25:57
know, you can, there's a lot of things that can be wrong.
25:59
Usually anything that's wrong is it's computer stuff.
26:03
Things aren't it's, it's the control isn't right.
26:07
You know what? But I get this job set up that
26:10
make sure they're right, get them set up on the right foot.
26:12
And then they usually the guys just especially young ones, they
26:16
grab it and they're just gone. I was just going to say this new
26:18
generation, the guys coming in, they're technology literate of
26:21
with everything that's going on, they catch on with real quick.
26:24
So this could really blow up the.
26:25
Last the last few jobs, you know, you show them the stuff
26:29
and then also you don't hear from them for a couple days.
26:31
It's like, well, either they didn't use it or it's working
26:34
and I'm like, well, do I want to know?
26:36
So most of the time I'll call. How is it going?
26:39
Oh, great. Well, just wanted to know
26:41
because at the beginning it was get a phone call right away, you
26:46
know, because you forget stuff because it's, it's easy to do.
26:49
There's there's a lot of steps involved and it's every time it
26:52
even different ways to set it up.
26:54
There's lots of ways to set it up that are different and the
26:57
guys forget. I says, no big deal, just call.
26:59
Usually I just say one thing that you do this and you didn't
27:05
hear from him again. And it's even guys that like
27:07
Craig Cluth is really good at it.
27:09
And if you don't use it for months, all of a sudden he'll
27:13
go. I can't get the damn thing to
27:15
work. Also, did you do this?
27:16
And then a week it's like, you know, and I'll do the same
27:20
thing, you know, but I'm using it all time now.
27:22
So now I hopefully I don't forget.
27:25
I think that's an import to what Charlie.
27:26
The point you made though is important and I wanted to
27:29
recognize it here for a couple of reasons.
27:31
The 1 is, I think the technology success we've had in certain
27:36
parts of the business have largely been sheer forces of
27:39
will from one person becoming very entrepreneurial, right?
27:43
So in this case, I think you kind of grabbed the bowl and and
27:47
figured it out. And Stratus is another example.
27:51
We had a couple people, Chris kind of at the very beginning
27:54
was like, I'm going to make this work, sheer will and
27:58
determination and entrepreneurialism.
28:00
And I think that's exciting. But also like, I love
28:03
celebrating this stuff. And that's why I'm so I was
28:06
excited for you to be on here because I want everybody, I want
28:09
to evangelize this. I want everyone at 2 year to
28:11
hear how cool the things are that Sean is doing and the
28:15
influence that he's had because this is what really what the
28:18
tribute podcast is supposed to be celebrating.
28:20
It's just influence and some people have had influence in the
28:24
number of jobs they've done or people they've mentored.
28:26
And you certainly have that. But this, this second part of
28:30
your career, I think the influence that you're having is,
28:34
is really, really significant. Like we're talking about we, how
28:38
do we, how do we replicate this in other parts of the business?
28:41
I mean, you're seeing it. I'm you're, you even told me
28:44
you're off to this job site, you're teaching people and you
28:47
know, different offices. So I'd be curious to hear about
28:51
that how how that part of this has been for you because you're
28:54
now interacting with different people in different parts of the
28:57
company and how you're how that transition has been for.
29:00
Your Noah, thanks for the kind words, but no, that this is fun.
29:06
I mean, it's something new every day like tomorrow I'm going out
29:10
to the Chippewa job just to show them how to he's going to lay
29:15
out his hangers on the concrete because it's we can't embed it.
29:18
It's it's metal decking, but they're going to he's going to
29:21
start putting up hangers because we're going to do some fab so he
29:25
can be doing that stuff. And then since I'm out there,
29:28
I'm going to show him some stuff that he tricks with Stratus that
29:32
I mean, you can only learn so much teams.
29:36
I mean it's and Kristen does a good job of teaching these guys,
29:40
but you know, I'm I'm more trade.
29:42
I'll give him some more trade specific stuff because, you
29:44
know, I don't know how they sheet metal packages stuff up.
29:48
Don't know, honestly, probably don't really care, but I know
29:51
what I know on the plumbing side and I'm just going to show them
29:55
what what I have learned and then learned from like Adam Zurn
30:00
doing stuff at Aligned, you know, or what I've taught him
30:03
and what he took it to and share it with some other crews are
30:10
people. Open to that.
30:11
Oh yeah, that job. They were a little overwhelmed
30:15
when they had that Excel job. They were a little chicken, the
30:18
farm. He he was a little apprehensive,
30:22
so I just let him there. They're using total station to
30:25
put the stuff in. And the guys that are working
30:26
for him also worked at Chippewa. And they're like, what is this
30:30
is OK, But sure would be nice if we had this all prefab.
30:32
I'm like, well, baby steps. This job wasn't ready.
30:36
They weren't, they weren't ready to do it.
30:38
Well, Chippewa, they kind of they, they were open, but we
30:44
also kind of told him this is how it's going to be, so you
30:46
better be open. And yeah, they, we spent so
30:50
little time with them and now they're like, holy, this is the
30:53
way we got to do it. So, and out there, that shop,
30:59
they really only have maybe 4 lead guys.
31:04
And it sounds like there's a lot of work out there.
31:06
So I, I keep telling them, I says, you know, if there's stuff
31:08
we could make for you, but you could do more, what less, right?
31:13
And I think they're open to it because it's the, the few of the
31:19
two that I met are my age. They're like they're past being,
31:23
I know how to do it. This is the way.
31:24
I'm like, they're like, I don't want to do it the easy way.
31:28
And I'm like, this is the easy way guys.
31:30
And it, I mean, why not? You're at that age.
31:35
Why should you, why should you bust your butt or rack your
31:39
brains when we can help you do it the easy way?
31:42
And they're pretty much doing it.
31:45
Well, then there's a market share piece to it too.
31:47
Like we could take on more, we could do more.
31:50
I don't think I, I think I think that's what's been a unique
31:54
value add as we've bought businesses and entered some of
31:58
the markets as they, they're all seeing that they can do more
32:01
with the same amount of people. If they have a big kind of big
32:04
support system behind them to help with labor, to help with
32:08
fabrication, to help with engineering, to help with VC,
32:13
they can do more and take up more space in their market
32:16
because they're they're running business differently.
32:18
Not that has happened every with every acquisition that we've
32:21
done and technology inevitably is a big piece of that.
32:25
So your kind of stewardship and guidance is goes a long way and
32:30
helping them see touch feel that it's possible.
32:33
So I'm excited to see how that shakes out.
32:39
Yeah. I just like, to me, you're
32:40
busting A myth right now that actually you mentioned it
32:43
earlier. I think people just assume that
32:45
like the young guys pick stuff up and the old guys like you
32:48
can't teach an old dog new tricks, all that stuff.
32:50
I'm like, and my experience here, it's exactly what you
32:53
said. It's the guys who are like, show
32:55
me an easier way and that doesn't age doesn't matter in
32:58
that case. Like I I find that the older
33:00
guys actually are more willing to take something on if you can
33:02
show them. Like this is going to make my
33:04
life easier. Yeah, it's, I always say it too.
33:07
It's like, dude, I'm older than you.
33:09
So you have a 40 year old. That's like kind of, I don't
33:13
know how to do that. I'm like, hey, I didn't even you
33:16
guys grew up with cell phones. I didn't have one of those until
33:19
I was 20 years old. They didn't, they weren't
33:22
around. Yeah, that's if I can do it.
33:28
Anybody can do it is how I take it.
33:30
Right. So I'd like to one thing,
33:35
because you've been so innovative here and have kind of
33:38
changed the game as far as I'm concerned.
33:40
We haven't asked you any questions about yourself.
33:41
What do you, what do you like to do outside of work?
33:43
What I know we've had you on here for the buck pool.
33:46
What? What else do you like to do?
33:48
I used to like deer hunting. No, I used to this.
33:53
I like hunting and fishing but not unfortunately, I didn't do
33:58
mud that I didn't do any fishing this past summer.
34:00
I haven't ice fished yet. I barely haunted because I'm
34:03
remodeling my cottage I've been working on.
34:06
It's been the summer of work and now it's the fall and winter of
34:11
work. I'm redoing the outside and the
34:14
inside. Oh, obviously I'm in the inside
34:16
now, but but I do want to next year, Yeah, next year I'm going.
34:22
To work now, enjoy, yeah. Next year, have that ready do.
34:25
You mind me asking where it is? Yeah, up in the Little Sturgeon
34:27
area. OK, so now I'm, yeah, I'm see
34:32
I'm doing a the stairs. I'm putting vinyl flooring on
34:35
the stairs this weekend. Nice.
34:36
So yeah, well, maybe I can come up and help you this weekend.
34:41
Sure as. Long as there's some beverages
34:44
up there. We'll see.
34:46
How about your family? You want to talk about that a
34:47
little bit? I'm a wife.
34:48
And kids. How many kids you got?
34:50
I got a son that's 24 and a daughter that's, I think she's
34:55
22 now. Yes, 22.
34:58
I'll edit that so you definitely say. 20, I think.
35:01
Yeah, it's 2222. And 20.
35:04
No, wait, he's 25. I'm sorry.
35:10
Time flies when you're having fun, right?
35:11
Yeah. And my wife, yeah, my wife of
35:16
2829, something like, yeah, something like that.
35:19
Long time. We're going to edit this so a
35:21
different voice comes in and goes 29, my wife of 29 years.
35:28
I'm hoping that's what it is as. Long as it's not like 36, right?
35:32
Exactly. Yeah, damn.
35:35
Let let's it's been a it's been a good time.
35:38
Yeah. So this is the same.
35:41
I guess I'm going to look at the template.
35:43
What does Tweet Garrett mean to you as far as like your career
35:46
and everything else moving? I'm not really good at stuff
35:52
like that, but I can say when I first started was a job, right?
35:55
Yeah. So now, I mean, it's it started
35:59
as a job and now I think it's it's not, you know, it's more
36:02
than that. It's right now.
36:03
I love what I'm doing. So I don't know if I'd call it a
36:09
passion, but I, I really enjoy, I want to see how far I can be
36:15
involved in taking us where we're in hot right now.
36:19
I don't know. I mean, it's a race.
36:22
It's a, it's a relay race. So I mean, I took the baton from
36:24
other guys and now I'm taking it how much farther?
36:27
And then somebody else will take it even further.
36:30
I'm hoping. I mean, I I'm sure that's
36:34
what'll happen. How far I'll go.
36:37
I got quite a while yet. It's I'm not tired yet.
36:40
That's great to hear. You don't hear too many people
36:42
saying that they're, you know, they love their job, that you
36:44
know, you can tell that you love your job.
36:46
You know, you come in really excited about it and then.
36:50
I'm with different jobs like this morning I was at the dot
36:53
job drawing stuff up with one of the foreman and field orders to
36:56
get stuff made because. For somebody who said you're not
37:01
good at an answer like that, I feel like that was a.
37:03
Really good answer. That was a very good answer.
37:05
Good. Yeah, yeah, it's a good fit for
37:08
you because you really like to help people and a lot of people
37:10
need it. So thanks for that.
37:13
And then maybe to finish it off, what would be one thing you
37:15
could piece of wisdom to pass on to some of the Co workers?
37:19
Well, the young ones there was maybe write that log, but
37:22
they're not going to do it because I know how they think
37:25
because I was there too. We were all.
37:29
But then like I said, what Ed said about looking at other
37:34
people's drawings and taking your stuff and and that's kind
37:37
of what that's kind of what like VC is, you know, and they, you
37:41
know, it's, I watch them sometimes on some earlier in our
37:46
VC that guys would be drawing stuff and have everybody else's
37:49
stuff off so they can see their stuff.
37:51
And then we turn it on. It's like, guys, what are you
37:53
aiming for each other? It's like, what the hell?
37:57
So I mean, you should have all this on in my opinion.
38:00
But yeah, the screen does get cluttered, but then you can see
38:02
it all and it's like that they're doing it.
38:04
But that's what we used to do on.
38:09
A on. A piece of drywall or a piece of
38:12
cardboard? What was that?
38:14
Cardboard assisted drying. That was CAD.
38:19
Yeah. Drag stuff up.
38:22
And we used to, you know, the guys, the trades would talk to
38:24
each other and everybody left. Nobody was super happy, but
38:29
nobody was super sad because he everybody had to give, give and
38:32
take. Because honestly, when it's all
38:34
said and done, we're doing our job for us.
38:38
But who are we really building this thing for?
38:41
Let's say you have 5 different contractors.
38:42
It's the owner that's getting it.
38:44
That's who you should be thinking of giving them the best
38:50
building. Yeah, we don't tell that story
38:52
enough. The evolution of sort of the VC
38:54
team and kind of where we were 15 years ago and the
39:01
adaptability like how Foreman felt about it in that moment to
39:06
where we are today. Whereas I think I would put our
39:10
team up against pretty much any contractor in the country right
39:13
now because I see a lot of what what other people are doing and
39:16
they're not nearly as technologically advanced.
39:18
They're not doing the things you're doing.
39:20
And so it is it would be that would be an interesting podcast
39:24
down the road, but I'll reframe that.
39:26
Maybe the final question, which is though, I think those were,
39:30
those were great career guidance.
39:34
What, what would you say to some, some of the more
39:37
technologically pessimistic people here?
39:42
As you've like, as you've watched your career evolve and
39:46
now you're taking your more, you know, tech forward, What advice
39:50
would you have to like some of the Luddites that.
39:54
This is my take on it and maybe this isn't tweaked Garrett's
39:57
take. Well, first they got to get on
40:00
board and if they don't see you later, that's just my take.
40:04
That's that's my take. I mean, obviously.
40:07
Honestly, that's what I was thinking.
40:08
Too, That's just how I that's sometimes is how I call.
40:11
It I think there needs yeah, there's an upskilling that has
40:13
to happen, right? We all have like being digital
40:17
has to be part of everybody's training.
40:20
I very much I'm on board. With that, and if they don't
40:22
know something, that's fine. Ask for help.
40:24
I have no problem. Yeah, we can.
40:26
Somebody will get you there. But the idea of like, I don't
40:29
know, I don't turn on my computer anymore.
40:30
I don't think that. Yeah, I think you're probably
40:33
right. We're past that.
40:34
Right. It's so it's.
40:36
Which Charlie has probably heard more than anybody else on the
40:39
planet. I'm still hung up on the phrase
40:41
technologically pessimistic. I'm going to hang on to that
40:44
one. That's a good one.
40:46
And I want AT shirt that says technologically optimistic.
40:49
Yeah. But anyway, sorry.
40:53
So OK, that's a good answer. I like that.
40:57
Straight to the point. Well, I don't know who's
41:01
wrapping this up here, but I personally thank you.
41:04
Like it's been A and it sounds like you're on your way out the
41:07
door. Obviously you're not, but it's
41:09
just been a pleasure working with you and I wish everybody
41:12
had the attitude that you do. Like it's it's really, it just
41:15
seems like anybody can throw any challenge at you and you're
41:18
going to take it on and and do it well and do it with a smile
41:21
on your face and then and then not only learn it, but show it
41:23
to others, which that just blows my mind.
41:26
That's awesome. I like, like you said earlier, I
41:28
wish there were four of you. I wish there were more than four
41:30
of you, but. Thank God don't be careful what
41:33
you wish for. I appreciate your humility.
41:39
Yeah. Thank you.
41:40
This was great. OK.
41:41
Thank you for telling your story.
41:42
It was awesome. And thanks for calling us fun.