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Did Robert E. Lee hate Confederate Memorials? · Ridiculous History

• 0:23
  Speaker 1: Casey, can we get a little bit of a kind
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: of a Gettysburg vibe music, you know, like with the
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: drums flute, there we go. I feel that cadence. It
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: sounds like a nineties song, like like like Jumper by
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: Third Eye Blind or something you know from centuries earlier. Yeah, yeah, totally.
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: It's those It's those marching drums that really give my
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: give my fields up. And speaking of fields, thanks for
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: tuning in. We hope that you are feeling great. Uh,
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: this is ridiculous history. My name is Ben, my name
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: is Noel, and the man on the ones and twos
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: as always give it up for our super producer, Casey Pegram.
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: Today's episode does concern some heavy history that we we
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: have to bring into the story, but we we don't
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: have to get to two in the weeds about it.
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: You've heard the story a thousand thousand times, whether or
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: not you live in the US. It's a story of
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: brother against brother, North and South, a nation divided. The
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: US Civil War. Well, how would you describe the US
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: Civil War to someone who had never heard of it?
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: It was real, main spirited man. Brothers were fighting brothers.
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: Everyone was at each other's throats in the North from
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: the South, and why can't we all just get along?
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: And it wasn't any fun, Man, wasn't any fun. From
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: April twelfth, eighteen sixty one, to April nine, eighteen sixty five,
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: this nation was embroiled in what would later become the
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: most heavily documented research war in US history. Yeah, that too,
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: So I think all of those facts together are are
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: pretty good high level look at at this conflict. But
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: the ramifications of the U. S Civil War carry on
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: in the United States today, not just in the southern
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: part of the continent, but in the policies and the
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: legislation created on a state and federal level. The war
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: created several larger than life historical figures, people who were
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: and are enormously influential here in Abraham Lincoln, for instance, right,
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: the guy who brought everybody back together hell or high water.
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: And today's episode is about another one of those giants,
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: a man named Robert E. Lee, or we can only
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: imagine Bobby Lee to his friends. Yeah, or maybe some
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: people call him Eddie because his middle name the East
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: for Edward. Yeah. I know that was eating a lot
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: of you up inside, not knowing what that he stood for.
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: Was it corn exactly. So what do we know about
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: Robert E. Lee? Well, like okay, So he was born
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: January nineteenth of eighteen oh seven, passed away October twelfth
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: of eighteen seventy, and he was a decorated um general.
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: He was born in a plantation in Westmoreland County, Virginia,
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: UM and he came from a military family. His father's
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: name was Major General Henry Lee the third had a
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: pretty dope nickname as with light Horse Harry UM and
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: it was He was also the governor of Virginia UH.
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: And he was had Robert E. With his second wife
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: and Hill Carter. And he was raised in this very
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: regimented military family and he carried on that legacy with
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: a career in military engineering. His father actually had some
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: difficulty is that he ended up in debtors prison due
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: to some financial troubles he had while doing business in
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: the West Indies. UM. But but Robert was left undeterred
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: and he got himself a pretty choice spot at the
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: prestigious military academy at West Point, where he graduated second
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: in his class um in eighteen twenty nine. But it
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: would be some time before Lee actually ever saw battle.
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: It wasn't until eighteen forty six in the War with
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: Mexico that he was able to really get his feet, wet,
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: his hands bloody. Whatever the euphemisity you'd like to use
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: under General Winfield Scott's brigade or whatever you want, regiments,
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: I don't know. Uh. He became a pretty well respected
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: soldier for bravery, and he came out of that situation
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: with the rank of colonel and then was appointed as
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: superintendent at West Point, where he served from eighteen fIF
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: two to eighteen fifty five. But um, let's remember where
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: this story starts. He was at heart a Southern gentleman
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: raised on a Southern plantation, and was also a slave owner,
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: and reports are that he was quite cruel to his
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: slaves in fact, and in a biography brief biography on
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: Battlefields dot org Um, the writer points out that during
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: his tenure as the superintendent, which is like the head
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: hauncho of West Point, he would be overseeing cadets who
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: would serve on both sides of the Civil War, both
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: under him and in opposition to his forces. Because, as
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: we know, he went on to become the general of
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: the Confederate Forces, which were the forces that supported slavery right. So,
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: one thing that people forgot pretty quickly after the close
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: of the Civil War and Robert E. Lee's death is
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: that he was by no means a perfect man. There
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: are a lot of myths about Lee that are still
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: circulating today, one of those being that he was opposed
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: to slavery. After the Civil War, he did attempt to
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: present himself as always having been opposed to slavery. In
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: an interview shortly after his surrender at Appomattox, he said
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: that the best men of the South have been eager
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: to do away with the abominable practice. In eighteen sixty six,
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: he testified before the Joint Committee on Reconstruction that he
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: had always been in favor of emancipation, gradual emancipation. However,
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: he owned or managed slaves for over thirty years in
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: eighteen sixty one, in April, he oversaw roughly two hundred individuals.
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: Not to mention that there were reports. You know, maybe
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: we haven't have cocon of present confirmation, but he wasn't
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: a particularly kind slave owner. That he may have been
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: much more on the cruel and brutal side. We give
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: this just to lay out those facts. These are very,
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: very important things. However, his personal or non military life aside,
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: he was known as one of the finest officers in
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: the US Army. In eighteen fifty nine, he was called
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: upon to suppress the raid at Harper's Ferry led by
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: the abolitionist John Brown, and was so successful that in
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: eighteen sixty one, Abraham Lincoln offered him command of the
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: full federal forces. Not only did he decline, he resigned
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: from the army when the state of Virginia seceded from
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: the Union on April seventeen of the same year, his
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: reasoning being I cannot make war against my own people.
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: And he didn't just resign, He didn't go, you know,
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: hang out on a farm somewhere. Instead, he joined up
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: with the newly formed Confederate Army as a general. So
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: his first military engagement is at a place called cheat Mountain, Virginia.
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: Well now it's West Virginia, but back then it was
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: just Cheap Mountain, Virginia on September eleventh, eighteen sixty one.
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: It was a victory for the Union, but he still
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: weathered the storm and was also a military advisor to
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: President Jefferson Davis until eighteen sixty two and there are
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: so many fantastic stories, books, biographies, podcast, research papers, and
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: so on written about the Civil War that we would
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: we would helpfully refer you to any one of those.
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: Let's fast forward to the end of the Civil War,
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: because this is when our story really begins to take shape.
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: So we said that the Civil War ended in eighteen
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: sixty five, right, Yeah, it's true because upon um defeat,
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: Robert E. Lee had to or didn't have to, but
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: he seemed to acquiesce to swearing allegiance to the Union
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: and to admitting defeat, and to not being a particularly
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: sore sport about the whole affair because he was, you know,
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: in fact, a professional military man, and he understood the
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: rules of engagement, and he wasn't gonna pitch a fit
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: about it, and he kind of went quietly. Yeah. On
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: April nine, eighteen sixty five, Lee surrendered the Confederate Army
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: to Ulysses S. Grant at the Appomattox Courthouse. This ended
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: the Civil War, I mean, effectively, he went home on parole.
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: His life went on for about five years after the
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: Civil Wars end, and he eventually became president of Washington
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: College right before his death on October twelfth, in eighteen seventy.
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: There's an interesting timeline here, right, So he only lives
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: about five years after the close of the Civil War.
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: And similar to the way that myths sprang up about
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: George Washington, you know, even while he was alive and
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: certainly immediately after his death, we see the same thing
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: in certain parts of American culture with Robert E. Lee.
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: He was romanticized, he was memorialized. You could say, people
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: in the South wanted to build statues to him. They
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: wanted to waive the stars and bars and talk about
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: I don't know, the South rising again, right, Yeah, I
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: mean that's what they said, absolutely, But it ends up
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: feeding into some pretty toxic romanticizations of these ideas. Oh yeah,
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: let's have no illusions about that. It's it's it's it's
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: it's bad stuff. And we will get into how that
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: plays into more contemporary history in just a little bit.
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: In an article on PBS dot Org by Lisa and
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna go ahead and really french this one up
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: Lisa Arden, which I may be overpronouncing it. I'd rather
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: overpronounced than underpronounced. She mentions how Lee was pretty clear
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: about the way he felt about that kind of romanticization
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: well before his death. Um, and that he stressed this
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: idea that it was very important for a country that
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: had been torn by war to move past it, and
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: that includes not memorializing it with any kind of symbolism
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: or militant monument remembrances, things like that that would continue
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: to cause UH to sort of sow the seeds of separatism.
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: And there's a really great quote from him that you
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: think you can kind of take as at faith faith value,
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: and then we can kind of dissect a little bit too, Ben,
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: Do you want to read that one? Sure? This quote
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: comes from a piece of correspondence about a proposed memorial
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: at Gettysburg written in eighteen sixty nine. I think it
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: was not to keep open the souls of war, but
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  Speaker 1: to follow the examples of those nations who wouldn't they
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: able to obliterate the marks of civil strath to commit
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: to oblivion. Little feelings engendered, very well spoken, sir. That's
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: not me, that's Robert E. Lee. I don't know where
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: we got the audio. I felt as though he floated
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: right into the room. Um. Yeah, it's true. And that
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: has led many to believe that what he meant was
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: any of these Confederate monuments were counter to his idea
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: of how it would be best to deal with the
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: fallout from a war like that. That by having these
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: romanticizations or any kind of these big reminders staring you
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: in the face, whatever side you were on, it's not
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: a good thing, and it would continue to sow those
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: seeds of division and hostility between the winning and the
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: losing sides. Yeah, there's a great biography of Lee by
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: a fellow named Jonathan Horne, The Man Who Would Not
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: Be Washington fantastic title, and he points out that Lee himself,
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: Roberty Lee himself, after the Civil War and those five
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: years before his death, he opposed monuments, but specifically opposed
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: Confederate War monuments, And in his correspondence we have multiple
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: documented reasons for his opinion. So in one case he
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: questions the cost of a monument to Stonewall Jackson, and
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: he finds some other ways to approach this issue. But
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: his underlying prime objection to this is that we empower
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: a cause or an idea when we remember it. That's
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: why so many civilizations work so ardently in the past
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: and in the modern day to erase things from your
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: history books. In his mind, the war had ended, the
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: nation was one again, and it needed to look forward
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: to the future, rather than um celebrating this social upheaval
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: and then potentially leading to further discord down the road. Yeah.
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: He he puts it pretty eloquently in this this court
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: that we also have tape off as regards the erectional
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: such a monument as is contemplated. My conviction eels that
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: how evil gratefully it would be to the feelings of
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: the South, the attempting the present condition of the country
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: would have the effect of re todd instead of accelerating
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: its accomplishment, all continuing, if not adding to the difficulties
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: under which the Southern people label We do want to
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: point out there that he is using a word that
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: could be seen as offensive, but he's using it in
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: the correct way, you know what I mean. He's meaning
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: to sty me the progress of the country. Yeah. Indeed, Um,
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: And there's a this actually was so divisive it made
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: the news really recently because of the senseless and bizarre
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: and unfortunate uh attack for lack of a better term,
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: that happened in Charlottesville, Virginia in um where in fact,
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: a an alt right or a white supremacist group descended
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: on the small college town because of a proposal to
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: pull down a statue of General Roberty Lee. And there
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: was violence. Um, a young woman was hit and killed
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: by a car, and it at the time, it was
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: just utter chaos. It became a very divisive political issue.
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: Even before this event. It became a very divisive political issue,
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: the idea of should we erase these marks of the
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: past because of what they represent, which you know, you
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: could argue is racism, is division, is pro slavery attitudes.
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: Some Southerners, old school Southerners say it's their heritage or represents,
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: you know, just the history of the South, and that
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: taking it down is disrespectful to them. So say what
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: you will. Our president have this to say about it.
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: Sad to see the history and culture of our great
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: country being ripped apart with the removal of our beautiful
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: statues and monuments. Do you know, no, I I noticed
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: you didn't do a Trump voice for that, And I
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: think that's I think that's a good call, because I
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: gotta tell you, I've been looking around and I just cannot,
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: for the life of me, find a good impression of
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: that guy, you know what I mean, Like the Alec
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: Baldwin and one is not that great. Well, that's sort
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: of what makes his funny, right, is that it's like
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: it's it's it's yeah, it's so out of left field
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: that it just kind of is like cartoonist as you
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: would say, right. Yeah. Even Stephen Colbert h love the
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: guys just I don't know, maybe it's a tough voice.
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: They're the pros. Let us know if you if you've
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: seen a decent impression. And I'm not saying anything further
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: than that, it's just usually when someone's president, there's like
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: one person, often from Saturday Night Live, who does the
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: best impression of that president. And it looks like we're
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: still looking for one. No offense to any Alec Baldwin
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: fans in the how US. But your point, your point stands, Nolan.
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: It goes back to, uh, what I was saying at
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: the top. We see these ramifications carry on to the
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: modern day. Faulkner was right when he said the past
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: is not over. It's not even past. And I'm paraphrasing there,
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: but this is an important point I believe. Now currently
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: as it stands, there's somewhere around seven hundred and fifty
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: monuments all told, across the US that are um there
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: are memorials for the Civil War, and that's according to
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: the Southern Poverty Law Center. People who want these removed
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: to say that the continued presence of the monuments confers
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: undue dignity on a faction that fought to preserve slavery
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: and white supremacy. So they agree with Robert E. Lee,
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: but perhaps for different reasons. Yeah, and not to mention that.
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: In August, it's when PBS News Hour and NPR are
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: uh an emarrassed pole found that six people responding to
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: the pole thought that monuments such as this should stay
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: in place as historical symbols. So it is a tricky
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: argument because on the one hand, it's a form of
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: revisionist history. On the other hand, you know, real estate
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: is scarce, maybe we should devote it to some more
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: positive things, you know what I mean, like as opposed
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: to something that represents things that are painful to others
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: who have family members that possibly even lived through it
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: or were connected to it more directly. And one thing
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: that a lot of people miss when they hear the
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: headline Robert E. Lee opposed Confederate memorials, is that he
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: also opposed Civil War memorials in general. He turned down
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: the Gettysburg Battlefield Memorial Association back in eighteen sixty nine.
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: He really wanted the battle fields to be erased, to
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: turn into farms, to turn into towns, another peaceful areas
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: of the nation, rather than memorializing them. He saw it
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: as a way to speed reconciliation. So it's not as
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: if he was holy repentant, you know what I mean,
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: Nor was he penitent. He said all of the memorials
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: would be better if they were left unbuilt, Ye for sure. Uh.
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: And this is one of those quotes, the original one
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: that we said about, you know, the sores of division
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: or whatever that you can very easily take out of
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: context and you use to support arguments on either side. Right,
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: And this is where our tail draws to a close.
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: But we didn't want to end on two somber a
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: note because there is a very specific type of unorthodox
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: Confederate memorial that will never be removed from the US
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: because it doesn't exist in the US. We're talking about
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: the Confederados, the ten thousand to twenty thousand Confederate American
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: refugees who fled to Brazil, mainly in sal Polo, and
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: UH then lived, reproduced, had descendants, They founded the city Americana, Brazil.
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: We did this on previous episodes. Yeah, it was that
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: obsession with the Confederate South, Uh in the very same
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: way that they romanticize it in an almost weird kind
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: of like alternate reality man in the High Castle, fictionalized
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: kind of way, as though if they had won the war,
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: what it would be like that was that's a weird one.
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: And you can you can see the residents of Americana
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: Salthpolo talking about how they how much they enjoy the
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: festival they hold every year, and how it's for them
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: not about commemorating a regime, right, it's not about commemorating
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: um racism or slavery year, all the things tied to
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: the Civil War. It's just for them part of their culture.
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: Very interesting town. So if you've ever been there, check
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: it out and let us know what you find. UH
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: And you know in fact, snopes dot com, the the
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: famous fact checking site, decided to weigh in on this
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: as well, with the question was Robert Eale opposed to
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: Confederate monuments, and they classify it as a mixture of
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: true and false, with the truth being UH supporting the
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: validity of those quotes that he expressed opposition to UH
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: Civil War monuments memorials, including the Stonewall Jackson one specifically,
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: But what isn't clear is the breadth of this position.
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: His opposition to Confederate monuments was probably more pronounced than
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: his opposition towards Civil War monuments in general, but it
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: was still against against them overall. That's right, that's right,
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: but it is one of those mixed, uh, mixed Snopes responses.
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: And then the continuation of the President Trump's quote from
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: earlier or the tweet was this, he says, you can't
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: change history, but you can learn from it. Robert Lee,
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: Stonewall Jackson, Who's next? Washington? Jefferson? So foolish. Also, the
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: beauty that is being taken out of our cities, towns,
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: and parks will be greatly missed and never able to
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: be completely replaced. Uh. So we we can see where
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: where our boy Donnie Trump falls in that debate. I'd
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: also like to hear from you, fellow ridiculous historians, where
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: where do you fall in this debate? And speaking of
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: hearing from you, what do what do you guys say?
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: We do a little listener mail. I think that's a
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: smashing idea. Did you see that? One listener wrote in
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: and said that the listener male sound effect fills them
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: with abject terror. Yes, yeah, interesting was that on Facebook?
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: It was on Facebook. I think you can you can
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: see what we're talking about if you join forces with
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: us on Facebook. At ridiculous historians just getting that plug
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: out of the way right now. So so what do
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: we got? You got you got any hot takes? No?
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: I do. I got one from Hannah uh says hello.
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: I was recently listening to your when West Virginia begged
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: for foreign aid from the U. S s R. And
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: I was inspired to inquire about a podcast on forgat TONI.
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: Forgat TONI as a west central section of Illinois that
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: was forgotten when highways were expanded west and there was
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: an attempt to secede from the United States. This section
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: of Illinois felt cut off and decided to bring attention
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: to it with this major move. I have lived in
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: this area my whole life, and it amazes me how
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: few people know of it. Please consider it for a
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: future podcast. Thanks, Hannah, Consider it considered, Hannah, Yes, consider
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: it considered. I had not heard of forgot Tonia before
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: receiving your letter, Hannah, and I think it's fascinating. I
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: actually reading a lot about it off air. And I
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: hope that there are license plates. I hope that there
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: are stickers. I hope that you can, you know, send
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: mail with forgot Tonia stamps. But I look forward to
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: learning more. And before we uh Forgetonia this segment, let's
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: have let's have one more listener mail. Rebecca C. Writes
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: to us with an email entitled or Deal by Cake. Hello,
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: says Rebecca, I have been listening to this podcast since
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: it started and it has become one of my favorites. Thanks.
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: In parentheses, she says, I love the quister. We have
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: complicated feelings there. The war began by the dog was timely,
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: as it came up in trivia last night. Or the
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: guy who sets the questions also listened to the show
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: wouldn't you discussed undergoing trials. I was reminded of or
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: Deal by Cake, where the person would have to eat
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: a dry cake without choking after swear into something, the
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: idea being that if you were lying, guilt would stick
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: in your throat, just a thought it might leave less
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: scars than other ordeals. Rebecca, thanks for writing. I had
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: never heard of the Trial by Cake. The closest I
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: remember hearing is that old stand up bit about cake
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: or death right and Eddie Izard bit. I just got
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: confirmed off air by Casey, But I don't know. I
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: would give it a try. It sounds kind of like
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: a an old school version of the Saltine Challenge. Have
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: you heard of that? Is that where you eat a
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: bunch of saltines? Is it like the cinnamon Challenge? Yeah?
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: Pretty much so. I don't know if that's a way
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: to set legal precedent, but um, I'd be interested in
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: trying it. I wonder if we could institute. Do you
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: think HR would let us get away with that? I mean,
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: I I say we Uh. What is it better to
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: ask for forgiveness than permission? Especially when Cake is involved? Man,
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: sign me up. I'll try anything I want, especially if
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: Cake is involved. So thank you so much, Hanna, thank you, Rebecca,
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: and to thank you for listening. This concludes listener mail,
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: but not our show. Tune in because we have more
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: ridiculous stuff on the way. As always, In the meantime,
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: you can learn more about ridiculous, bizarre, strange exploits throughout
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: the story of human civilization on our Facebook page Ridiculous Historians,
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: our Instagram, or our Twitter. You can also follow our
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: own personal adventures on Instagram where I am at Ben Boland,
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: I am at Embryonic Insider. Big thanks to super producer
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: Casey Pagram, Alex Williams, who composed our theme, research associate
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: Gaye Bluesier, and of course I think we're due for
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: a Christopher Hasiotis appearance and possibly a creepy drop in
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: from our arch nemesis the quis or Jonathan Strickland. I
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: have PTSD my friend podcast Trauma Traumatic Stress Disorder, because
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: this is gonna sound weird, but there are I know
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: that it sounds like a bit sometimes, but there are
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: genuinely times when we don't know that he's coming. It's
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: it's strange, It's it's a bizarre situation and we've just
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: been rolling with it. It's also where when he just
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: kind of drops down from the ceiling and then his
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: head turns around three hundred and sixty degrees and he
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: kind of makes a weird cackling sound that's a very guttural,
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: like from the throat kind of situation. Yeah, this is
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: not a bit. Sometimes he doesn't even make it to
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: the mic. He just drops in exorcist style and then
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: like skitters back up into the ceiling. It is quite
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: traumatic for all concerned. But at the same time, I
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: missed the little guy. You know, I'd like a statue.
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: I gotta tell you, I was conflicted with us because
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: I see Robert E. Lee's point about not wanting to
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: memorialize this, uh, this intense divisive period in time. But also,
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: wouldn't it be kind of cool to have a statue
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: of your of yourself? I mean, so it's such a
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: Kanye West move, you know, Casey, would you get a
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: statue of yourself? Probably not, someone else would have to
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: build it right at the very least. But I'll tell
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: you what you will get. Maybe not a statue, but
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: some kind of apparel I think maybe forthcoming. Oh oh,
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: stay tuned.