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The Impact of Hair Care on Scalp Health · The Science of Skin

• 0:05
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Dr.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_00: Patty Ferris, and I'm your co-host for this episode of Skin Care Confidential.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_00: Just to remind all of our listeners, this is an offshoot of our medical meeting, the Science of Skin Summit, formerly the Science of Skin Care Summit, but we rebranded recently and we're now called the Science of Skin Summit.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_00: But our focus is still heavy on skincare and all of the science that surrounds the great products that are in the marketplace.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm really excited today to have Dr.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_00: Iris Rubin, who is a dermatologist and a pioneer in the area of hair care.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_00: And we're going to learn all about her cool company, Scene, and how she got into this to begin with.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_00: But I want to start with her bio.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_00: Dr.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_00: Rubin is founder of Scene, which is a patented award-winning good-for-skin hair care line that's science-backed and mission-driven.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: I love that if that's your mission statement, it's fantastic.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_00: Dr.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_00: Rubin received her undergraduate degree with honors from Stanford, her medical degree from Harvard Medical School.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_00: She did her Durham residency at the University of Chicago and Harvard Medical School and served as academic chief at Harvard.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_00: She completed a laser surgery fellowship at Mass General at the Wellman Center for Photomedicine.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't know that, Iris.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_00: Interesting.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_00: You were a laser girl before you were into the hair care business.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: Prior to launching scene, she had positions as the medical director of the dermatologic and vascular surgery program at Children's National Medical Center in Washington, D.C.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_00: And she was a dermatologist at Mass General and a faculty member at Harvard.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_00: She's been an invited speaker at all the Wright meetings, including the Aslums, which is the American Society for Laser Medicine and Surgery.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_00: She's spoken at the AAD, the ASDS, which is our Derm Surgery Society, and Washington Derm Society as well.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_00: So welcome to Skincare Confidential.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you, Patty.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_01: It's such a pleasure to be here.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_00: I'm super excited.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_00: I want to start with something that is a little off script for us, but it came onto my feed this morning, and the article was titled The Science Behind Scalp Care: Key Ingredients and Technologies.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_00: And it came from the Global Cosmetic Industry newsletter, which I'm sure you read and I read, and anybody who's into skincare and hair care reads.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_00: But they said something that I thought was really fitting to start this.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_00: And it reads: scalp care is no longer just a niche, it's a movement paralleling sophisticated skincare regimens, positioning scalp health as equally essential.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_00: As consumer sophistication grows, hair health brands are poised to capitalize on this evolution, drawing lessons from skincare strategies to offer advanced scalp solutions.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_00: I do too.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_00: I thought it was so poignant and so well written.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_00: And it really brings us to where you and I want to start, which is, you know, how in the world?
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: So many dermatologists have started skincare lines.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I say every day, do we need another dermatologist skincare line?
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_00: I would say probably not, unless you have something super innovative.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_00: But how did you get into starting a hair care line?
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_00: I know there's a personal tie here too.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_00: So tell us that story.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely, Patty.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I never in a million years actually thought that I would start a product line.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_01: I remember when I moved into private practice from having worked at Mass General, moved to Maryland.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_01: I was actually called into the head of the private practice office and reprimanded for not selling enough product.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm actually like a beauty and skincare minimalist.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_01: Like I see derms giving these multi-step routines.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_01: And then I also see now with this trend of skinification of hair, advocating for this multi-salp scalp routine.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_01: But um, you know, it's really amazing to me actually that a dermatologist, that there's so few dermatologists founded hair care brands, because you know, you talked about how you changed your meeting title to science of skin care to um science of skin.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_01: Science of skin.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_01: Well, the scalp is skin.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_01: Correct.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and and actually, um, I really believe, and our science has proven that your hair care is an extension of your skincare regimen.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_01: So in my case, I was practicing as a pediatric laser surgeon.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_01: I trained with Rox Anderson, who by the way, Rox, I'm gonna call you out as using scene.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_01: He's a scene investor as well.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um love that.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I was uh practicing dermatologist, and I would just notice every time I went and got my hair done, about five or six days later, I would get an acne breakout.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_01: I'm 50, I'm still acne prone.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_01: We're called scene because if your hair skin don't look good, most people don't feel like they want to be seen.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_01: I actually have a pimple right here today, and I was like, really?
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_01: On the day of my podcast.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I came to realize that hair care really affects the skin in a way that we weren't really taught as dermatologists.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_01: We learned about POMAD acne.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_01: In my case, um, I'm prone to hormonal acne.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I view hair care as just really one of the tipping points if you are acne prone.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_01: It's potentially hair care can be potentially comedogenic.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_01: And um, it turns out it's a much bigger issue than I think many of us realize.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_01: So that was the genesis behind scene.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_01: I just thought this is what I call a confidence injustice that people can be doing all the right things with their skincare, investing so much time and you know, their mind and their energy, in some cases seeing a dermatologist and then potentially undoing it with their hair care.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_01: And it turns out, you know, we started with acne, but it's a much bigger story about the impact of hair care on the skin, can affect eczema, uh, a whole host of the scalp conditions, hair shedding, uh, just a whole host of conditions.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_00: So interesting.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_00: You mentioned skinification, so maybe tell the audience what that means.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_00: I love the term.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_01: So it's an industry term, skinification of hair, which is the idea that you treat your scalp like you would your skin and bring skincare ingredients to hair care.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_01: It's a great concept.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_01: It totally makes sense.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_01: The scalp is where your hair follicles live.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_01: And so if you're not treating your scalp well, if you're throwing poor clogging ingredients, irritants, allergens, that it just isn't going to support optimal hair follicle health.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_01: For us at Scene, we actually extend the term skinification of hair not just to skin science to scalp and hair care, but the way that hair care products can actually impact the skin on your face and body.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_01: So when I was getting acne when I would go get my hair done, I said, okay, I'm just gonna use shampoo and conditioner.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna put my head back, it's gonna rinse out, I'm not gonna break out.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_01: I still broke out and I said, there must be some sort of residue that's being left behind that's then transferring to my skin.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_01: What's the mechanism here?
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_01: So we actually did a study which we published in JDD showing that we just picked the top selling hair care products in US salons and did an FTIR spectroscopy study showing that even when you rinse shampoo and conditioner hours later, it can be on your scalp, your face, your body, and same with leave-in um products.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_01: So this is why we really approach hair care as skincare.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_00: So were you targeting back acne or facial acne, or I guess both?
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_01: That's a great question.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_01: When we started, um, I myself, it was face acne that was flaring, but it turns out hair care products are probably an even bigger contributor, as you mentioned, yes, to to back acne, which makes sense.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's literally impossible, yeah, to use a hair product without it getting on your skin.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_01: So um one of the other studies we did after after we showed the residue, I call it the residue study.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_01: For me, that was really the point where I was like, okay, I want to create a brand.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_01: If you, if hair care, if you use it and then hours later it can stay on your skin.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_01: As a dermatologist, to me, that really makes it skincare.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, we have a history of using even rinse-off products to treat certain conditions like sebreic dermatitis.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_01: So um, you know, so that was the genesis for starting the brand.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_01: We also did a dermatologist-graded acne study.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_01: 27 patients with mild to moderate face and body acne used scene, which is not medicated, for eight weeks.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_01: And at the end, 70% of people with body acne showed improvement.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, they didn't clear, but they showed significant improvement, and 52% with face acne.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_01: So I really think it's an under, it's a missing piece for some people in their um regimen when they're dealing with acne and other skin conditions.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_00: Like you said, it's something we don't talk about, and the consumer, I think, is just now starting to hear about this.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_00: It's totally fascinating, and I love the studies that you've done because they're so telling.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_00: What are the problematic ingredients?
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_00: What are the the ones that people should avoid?
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's a great question.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, Patty, we've also done studies.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_01: We kept hearing from people that their dry flaky scalp um had improved vacine.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_01: And so um we did a study, what we called it a dry flaky scalp study because we're not medicated.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_01: So as people with um not a lot of erythema, but flaking irritation, and that after a month, 93% by dermatologist grading had improvement.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then we also have a study out of um Dr.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_01: Marianne Santa approached us about doing a study.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um, she's she was running the Harvard Hair Loss Clinic, and we um tested fragrance-free scene shampoo and conditioner.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_01: So it comes sent in fragrance-free for six months in a randomized controlled um uh study and showed that women with female pattern hair loss had 44% less hair shedding after six months, and that was presented at SID.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_01: So I just want to make clear like it's much bigger story.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_01: It started with acne, but it turns out when you optimize hair products for the skin, there's a lot of benefits.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it just makes sense, you know, to do this.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but the ingredients is a it's a tricky thing.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_01: I'll make the analogy um almost to like baking a cake, because it's not just which ingredients, but it's the threshold of it, like and it's the way they combine.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_01: Like, for example, you know, there's certain cometogenic ingredients, like satirol alcohol, fine.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_01: But when you combine it with satiro 20, not so great.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, that combination is cometogenic.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_01: Certain oils like coconut oils commonly used in hair care, that's um quite cometogenic.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_01: But then there's all these ones that you you wouldn't even look to to think about, like lorith 4 and other names.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_01: So it's really a whole list, but the final formula is what's matter, what matters on the allergy side?
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_01: It's more straightforward to remove things like irritates, like irritants like sulfates.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_01: We don't have cocomedopropyl, betane, propylene, glycol, preservatives, MI, MCI.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_01: There's a list of ingredients.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_01: And then again, the fragrance-free option for people who may be sensitive or allergic to fragrance.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_00: What about like leave-on products?
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of people do leave-on conditioners, and then we have the whole dry shampoo phenomenon.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, are those leave-on products more potentially problematic?
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_01: They are.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_01: And um, I mean, you're basically rolling around in your leave-in products all night on your pillowcase.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_01: And then, you know, if you have you're it's touching your face and your back.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_01: So, um, and you know, I think I started this journey because I my hair naturally is really like wild.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_01: It's uh my my hairdresser has said it's like top 10 frizzy like of her clientele.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I'm not just she's doing a great job.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_00: It looks it look does not look frizzy.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you, Patty.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you'll notice a lot of our products.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_01: So, one thing that's different about scene, it took us over four years to launch, is that it had to be standalone amazing hair care.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_01: So we've got it's color safe, anti-breakage, anti anti-frizz, um, but all all those benefits um, you know, are really important.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_01: But I I started telling you about my crazy hair because I think I started this journey because of all the leave-in products I was piling on to try and tame the tame it down.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_01: So I was trying, I was having to pick between my hair looking good and my skin looking good.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_01: And I just again thought this was like a huge confidence um injustice.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_00: So interesting.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, how did you learn about these formulation issues?
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_00: Because I mean, I think a lot of us who follow skincare know a little bit about skincare formulations, but I certainly wouldn't know near as enough to create a line.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_00: Do you did you work with formulators and experts in this area?
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's a great question.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_01: It was a four-year journey before we launched our yeah, it it's a long time.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but you know, I didn't want to launch something unless it was just standalone amazing care, by the way, also safe for acne-prone, sensitive skin.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_01: So I actually started just by Googling like who makes a product, and I was like, oh, a cosmetic chemist.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I worked with one cosmetic chemist um who's formulated amazing products.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_01: And to be honest, it wasn't until I worked with another group that had a female chemist on the team where we could really talk hair and she had curly hair like me, um, really talk hair.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_01: She was trying all these versions.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so it was a combination of, you know, I think in another life, I would have loved to be a cosmetic chemist.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_01: I I love learning about ingredients and, you know, I'm very involved in every ingredient, thinking about is it going to be communogenic?
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_01: Is it going to be an irritant or allergen?
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_01: What's the hair and skin benefit?
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so you know, it's just a, I would say a second, second education, but definitely working closely with the cosmetic chemists and the testing agencies because we develop and test our hair care like you would a skincare um product.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I hadn't launched skincare, so figuring out all the testing there as well.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm sure there's a standard.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it makes me think of the microbiome.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_00: So, do you test your products for the their effects on the microbiome?
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_00: Because I'm sure it's just as important in the scalp as it is on the skin.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe even more, thinking about malcesia and some things like that.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_01: 100%.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_01: Patty, you know, we haven't tested.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_01: We looked into it a few years ago, but it things have evolved.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_01: The scalp microbiome is is also complex and and tricky, I'm sure.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_01: But um, we haven't made microbiome um claims really um or or testing, but it's something we should do because I've long thought that a lot of the benefits of um of scene are basically supporting the skin barrier on the skin and the scalp, and then in turn having all these benefits protecting against, you know, things like mellesia and um you know, we know that the skin barrier is disrupted for acne.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_01: So I do, I do think that it would be it's a great suggestion.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and there's so many skincare companies who are looking at that aspect of their product now.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's sort of the one of the next frontiers.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_00: Super interesting though.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_00: So when you were testing the patients with flaky scalp, so you have no medicated, none of our usual buzzwords of things that we would use for things pyrethrone, and we could go on and on.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_01: No, we do have a scalp serum that has a non-medicated active that has some antimalassia activity, but we don't have any of the dandruff materials.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_00: Not in that.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_00: So you were looking at patients who had dandruff and their dandruff got better.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, they weren't probably not sebderm patients because as you said, they didn't have the erythema and and all of that, but they were, I mean, I always sort of separated into dandruff, which is just a little flaking, and then you we all know the sebderm patients might have a bigger problem.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_01: Although, Patty, I think, I think a lot of um when I was in practice, I feel like, you know, the tendency was any flaking to put that in the sebderm category.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_00: For sure.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I do think it's underrecognized this idea that the scalp can just be dry and irritated, perhaps from surfactants like sulfates or like a low-grade contact dermatitis.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I do think there is this dry scalp condition that some people with dandruff don't actually have sebderm.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_01: Some of them may have had my mild um sebderm as well.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but again, there was no erysthema.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_01: I I think the way that scene shampoo conditioner potentially helped dry flaky scalp, again, are by supporting just removing these irritants and allergens and just supporting the scalp barrier.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_01: But there's a hypothesis, and again, this is a hypothesis that's not proven because scene is non-cometogenic, are you not trapping malesthesia in the pores, which then can cause it to overgrow?
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_01: We also don't have um traditional oils in the shampoo and conditioner, which can be food for the malesia.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_01: So there's a number of hypotheses about why it may potentially um support dry flaky scalp.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_00: How it worked is interesting.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, oh, I had another thought, but it went completely out of my brain.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, well, you were talking about the hair loss patients.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_00: Now that is totally fascinating.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_00: So they had a reduction in shedding when they were using the products.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_00: And what exactly were they using in that study?
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so it was a study um by Marianne Senna, and um it had patients with scarring and non-scarring alopecia.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_01: So the patients with female pattern um hair loss used fragrance-free shampoo and conditioner for six months and had 44% less hair shedding at the end of the study.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_01: We were approached by Dr.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_01: Senna, I think, in part because fragrance-free scene avoids allergens that have been linked actually to certain types of scarring alopecia.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_01: And so the study was actually, it was a small sample size on the Lycan Planopolaris um side, but it did show decrease in LPP activity as well.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, that's totally fascinating.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_00: So some of those ingredients and products could be precipitating scarring alopecias, or making the symptoms worse.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_01: Like the study wasn't long enough to see what you know, what it would actually do to hair growth and and hair and hair shedding.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_01: But I do think if, you know, the way that we treat hair follicles is not is not very friendly.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_01: We're just throwing like stuff into the pores and not even thinking about it.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_01: We're throwing irritants and allergens at it.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_01: Like, how do you expect it to function, you know, at its best when we're doing that without even thinking twice about it?
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's such an interesting point.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's the whole skinification, you know, have the same care and health-related concerns for your scalp as you do.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_01: Although I do think the skinification of hair in the industry currently is a lot about bringing skin care ingredients.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_01: So let's say hyaluronic acid or ceramides, but less about what's not in it, also, like getting rid of those communogenic ingredients, getting rid of those irritants and allergens.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that's the part that makes scene a little different.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, we have the ingredients that are great for your hair.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_01: We borrow a lot of skincare ingredients, like we have squalane in our styling products, but we also consider, okay, to support the follicles on the scalp, to support the skin and on the face and the body, what should we not put in here, considering hair care really as part of your skincare regimen?
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you're right.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_00: That's interesting because they are bringing skincare ingredients into hair care products, some of which may not be great for the follicle.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I think generally the ingredients that are being brought in are like are are are decent, but it's more that they're just not considering, like in that in their formula, they may put in like preservatives that are allergenic or they may put in oils that are cometogenic.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like that holistic view like putting hyaluronic acid or ceramides in a product is great, but like looking at that formula to make sure is it non-cometogenic, is it you know non-irritating?
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_01: That's the difference of how we approach hair.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's a totally different approach.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_00: Have you looked at textured hair?
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_01: We have um had many people with um textured hair use seen and and really love it.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_01: We haven't done a study specifically in textured hair, but we've we've gotten great feedback.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_01: We have a deeper conditioner, a curly cream, and a magic serum that are particularly good for textured hair.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_00: That's good to know because they're the ones most likely to be putting the oils and some of these things that we're talking about into the hair.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_01: And we do have this serum, we call it Restore Scalp Serum, that has propane dial caprilate, which has some um microbiome supporting effects.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_01: Specifically, it's anti malesia.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_01: Again, we're not medicated, but we have found, you know, if you're washing your hair less less often, that some people really find that that um serum can be helpful.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_00: So interesting.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um the brand has grown exponentially, I know.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_00: Aren't you in some major retails now?
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_00: Are you in Sephora or?
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_01: Well, maybe you're foreshadowing.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you, Patty.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we we just signed an exclusive with Ulta, actually.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_01: So we went full chain, yeah, in April.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_01: Ulta's been an amazing partner um with us.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_01: We're actually the first dermatologist-recommeded hair care brand at Ulta for our fragrance-free products.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_01: So our fragrance-free has the dermatologist recommended um claim to it.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_01: And we, you know, a big part of our success, I think, is that we sample in uh like over 6,200 dermatologist and healthcare professional offices that have opted into sampling.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's been a great way to really create this category of good for skin hair care.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's fantastic.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_00: Congratulations.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_00: That's great.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_00: That's great.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, one of the things I think is interesting is your business.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_00: I know, aren't you in partnership with your sister?
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_00: And your twin sister, right?
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_01: So I have a twin sister.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, I I yes, I I have a bad joke about she went to Harvard Business School.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_01: I went to Harvard Med School.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_01: But I say I'm I'm the stupid twin because I started after her and I and um no, I started before her and I finished after her.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_01: But actually, no, she's um she really is an inspiration to me.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_01: I've never really seen women like growing up.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_01: I hadn't seen women in business, and my sister's just a business powerhouse.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_01: She um co-founded a multi-billion dollar venture capital fund actually with my husband, but I work, it's kind of interesting.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_01: I work with her husband, Greg.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_01: So we kind of, you know, I work with her husband professionally and she works with my husband professionally.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_01: It works out really great though.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_00: That is crazy, but that's a great story.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_00: I love a family business story because you have each other's backs, you know.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_01: That's a hundred percent.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, when people say, How do you create a line?
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_01: My line is everyone needs a Greg.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I because you know, I like to do the innovation and the science.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I do the marketing because I need to.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but you know, the operations and a lot of that, those aspects are just I I'm so happy that Greg is my co-founder.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_00: It's fantastic.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_00: It's a great story.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_00: So just to kind of wrap it, what is the future for scene?
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_00: What do you see?
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_00: Are there some gaps in what you're not offering?
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_00: Interesting things you might be working on in the future.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_01: So we did just launch Scene Baby.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we had people asking us, you know, what can what can I use on my baby?
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_01: It's tier-free.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_01: It also doesn't have coconut propyl, betane, or sulfates or fragrance, which is um not common for um baby products to have avoided all of those.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_01: So that just launched, and we're launching um a frizz.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_01: I talked about frizz, frizz, and repair five-minute mask in um in a few months.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_01: And then we have a whole pipeline of products.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_01: I have all these folders on my desk, but there's a lot more to do in um in hair care, you know.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, there's a there's a lot to do work working on a clarifying shampoo or dry shampoo.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_01: You know, so many dry shampoos are heavily, uh, heavily fragranced.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I will say, even though we're working on a powder dry shampoo that's non-aerosol, I always tell people dry shampoo is not a substitute for washing your hair.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_01: It's fine like periodically, but it has to be washed off to have healthy follicles.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I don't like dry shampoos.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_00: I've never been a fan.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_00: Well, this has been so interesting, and I love the journey.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_00: I love what you've done.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_00: You really created something that's very special.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_00: Dermatologists love this brand, and I hope people out there who are not familiar with seeing now they know about it, and it's something that they can recommend to their patients.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_00: And you sent me some fabulous samples of the unscented product.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_00: Loved them.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_00: They really, it's they're just great products.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_00: So congratulations.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_00: What an incredible venture you've built and the journey and a huge niche to fill in the dermatology marketplace.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_01: Patty, I really appreciate it.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_01: I I love what you do.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, it's really a privilege to be here on your podcast and just grateful for the opportunity.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_01: We are mission-driven.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_01: I think for people who are dealing with acne, sensitive skin, eczema, scalp issues.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, it just makes sense for them to know that, hey, you know, perhaps their hair care could be contributing.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_01: And as dermatologists, if we can share that just to help our patients, you know, then our our mission is is accomplished.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_00: Well, we'll see you at the Science of Skin Summit this year.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_00: We're really, yeah, we're very excited to have you back and hope everybody's enjoyed this episode.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_00: Have a great day.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks so much for listening.