Latest / Integrate This! Ed Tech Podcast / Stevie Frank on EdTech Coaching, AI Literacy & Amplifying Student Voice

Transcript

Stevie Frank on EdTech Coaching, AI Literacy & Amplifying Student Voice · Integrate This! Ed Tech Podcast

0:00
Welcome to Integrate This, your go -to edtech
0:03
podcast where curiosity meets classroom innovation.
0:07
Join your hosts, David Berner and Jeremy Mikla,
0:09
as we explore the rapidly evolving world of educational
0:12
technology. From game -changing tools to insightful
0:15
conversations with today's top edtech voices,
0:18
we're here to help educators stay informed, inspired,
0:21
and ready to innovate. So tune in, level up,
0:25
and let's integrate this. To the Integrate This
0:28
EdTech podcast, today we have a special guest
0:31
with us, Stevie Frank. Stevie is a digital learning
0:35
coach at Zionsville, Indiana, and has 15 years
0:40
of educational experience. When she's not learning
0:43
to become an educator for all students, she's
0:45
marking off travels with her family. And while
0:49
Jeremy and I love to catalog our guest accomplishments
0:52
for intros, one thing I'm not a huge fan of,
0:54
it doesn't always encapsulate everything that
0:58
someone has done in their experience throughout
1:01
their teaching career. So I've seen Stevie in
1:05
a number of interviews, including along with
1:08
Dr. George Valenzuela. But Stevie, let's start
1:12
with your background. because you didn't just
1:14
start out as a digital learning coach, but you've
1:16
had a lot of experiences. So maybe guess started
1:19
with life before. Yeah. So first of all, thank
1:24
you so much for the opportunity to be able to
1:26
chat here. I was chatting with Jeremy before
1:27
a little bit before the show about some of my
1:29
bucket list travels. And so I think I am going
1:32
to have to stop by again, the Lego store when
1:34
we pass through Minneapolis area of Mall of America.
1:37
I have to do that now. So. So yes, I actually
1:42
started off as a fourth grade teacher in a different
1:45
district than where I'm at now. And then I was
1:48
like, okay, I'm getting bored. I'm a mastery
1:51
of what I'm doing at this point. So now it's
1:53
time to move. So I moved grade levels to fifth
1:56
grade and then I moved districts. And then I
1:59
switched districts again, where I like to say
2:01
I've kind of found my home now. So I live and
2:04
I work in the district where my kids go. So I'm
2:07
like, I've got the perfect like recipe of everything
2:11
right now where I'm on most likely their calendar.
2:14
I work a little bit more, longer hours than they
2:16
do. But for the most part, we all sync up. So
2:19
when they get a snow day, I get a snow day. So
2:22
those things are super fun. So that is a little
2:25
bit about me. I also got my master's education
2:29
from Indianapolis, Indiana. at IU. So that was
2:33
one of my fun things that I got to do. And it's
2:35
actually in literacy and reading. It's not in
2:38
technology. So a lot of people have that kind
2:41
of misinformation about me where they're like,
2:42
oh, well, she's all tech. And I'm like, no, I'm
2:44
all, my pedagogy is a lot in reading. So a lot
2:48
of times when you hear me speak or I'm presenting,
2:51
I talk a lot about the pedagogy rather than just
2:54
the tool. A lot of times the tool is the how,
2:57
but I really like to get down into like, Best
3:00
uses and utilization of the tool rather than
3:03
just tech for tech sake your website to it actually
3:07
will say it's like you you have experience in
3:09
literacy and in reading is a big thing that you've
3:12
you've focused on or you know had is clear if
3:15
you if you look at your website and stuff too,
3:19
so Thank you, I'm glad I'm glad you're picking
3:21
that up well and that's and that's really honestly
3:25
David and I also really didn't get our starts
3:27
in education and technology either. Both of us
3:31
were social studies teachers, actually, to start
3:34
out with in the classroom. And I was there also
3:39
taught in the school where my kids went to school.
3:43
So I can totally relate to that experience that
3:45
you're talking about. And yeah, that made snow
3:48
days really enjoyable when they would come around
3:50
and I would get the day off with them as well.
3:53
Yeah, that was all really unique, but I really
3:55
love how you talk about focusing then on the
3:58
pedagogy part of it first, you know, and the
4:01
technology, you know, kind of becomes the how
4:03
part. I think that's really a great way to look
4:08
at it, I think. So you kind of gave us some of
4:11
the ideas of things here before you got into
4:15
your current position, but can you tell us a
4:17
little bit about the school that you work in,
4:19
what your role is now in that capacity and helping
4:23
the people of your district and the students
4:27
that are there as well? Yeah. So I am a digital
4:31
learning coach. I'm one of three. So there are
4:33
three of us across the district. So we're very
4:35
grateful for that. But I support three different
4:38
schools in my district. I support the middle
4:41
school and then two elementary schools. And so
4:43
that we kind of like conquer and divide. And
4:46
then it's fun, too, because then now it's the
4:49
end of the year and the teachers have left. So
4:50
now it's like, OK, we get to sync up and I actually
4:54
get to spend time in my cubicle, which is such
4:57
a like. novel thing because I'm like I maybe
5:00
stop by the ESC, our education service center,
5:03
like maybe once a week. So it's really nice to
5:05
kind of be in here and be collaborating with
5:08
the amazing team here. So how I support teachers
5:11
is either co -teaching with them, co -planning
5:14
with them. Those are my, I would say those are
5:16
my two favorites, parts of my job. But I also
5:19
do offer different trainings and different professional
5:22
development opportunities too as well when I'm
5:25
asked and tasked to do, you know, a full staff
5:27
training on, you know, a digital tool that we've
5:29
just implemented. So, but I love that time in
5:32
the classroom. I love to walk around and see
5:35
what the students are doing because now that
5:38
I've taken a step back out of the classroom,
5:40
so I'm three years out, I really miss that like,
5:43
okay, ooh, I have this really great idea and
5:46
I want to do it with the kids. And then I'm like,
5:48
oh, I don't like talking about it. and I'm listening
5:52
to my newsletters about it and I'm hearing people
5:54
say but I get the opportunity to go in and when
5:57
I co -teach with them it's just like okay that's
6:00
great you know so I really enjoy being able to
6:02
be bopping and hopping everywhere it really fills
6:05
my cup like I just I so enjoy my role so this
6:08
is such a great fit for me for sure. And collaboration
6:13
is like, it's such an essential part of, because
6:16
like you said, I mean, if you're, if you're not
6:19
having opportunities like that, you're kind of
6:20
just doing stuff on your own and, and sending
6:23
out ideas. But have you found that, um, you know,
6:26
with, with Zionsville, do you have quite a few
6:29
opportunities where you're able to join those
6:31
classrooms. I mean, sometimes we get, you know,
6:34
teachers that like to keep the door closed pretty
6:37
frequently. So do you find like, and it sounds
6:40
like it's a big district too, right? I mean,
6:42
that you have three visual learning specialists
6:44
there. So do you find your, yeah, working with
6:48
teachers is pretty frequent. We have about 8
6:51
,500 students. So we're not huge, which is great,
6:54
but we're not, you know, too small either. So
6:57
it's kind of like, a bigger, you know, we get
6:59
the best of both worlds, if you will, with that.
7:02
And so what I really enjoy about the collaborative
7:04
efforts of our district is that we're all like
7:07
on the same mission and vision of, you know,
7:10
making sure that we are not necessarily test
7:13
driven when it comes to taking a look at our
7:17
pedagogy and, you know, use of that. But we're
7:19
really just looking more towards like, what is
7:21
best practice? And we're always thinking about
7:24
the kid first. So a lot of times we're thinking
7:27
about it through that lens of, okay, how will
7:29
this benefit all of our students in Scienceville
7:32
Community Schools and then how can we meet those
7:34
needs? And that is such a cool collaborative
7:36
effort. All of our administrators, so our CIO
7:41
here, also CTO, if you're more familiar with
7:44
the Chief Technology Officer instead of Chief
7:46
Innovative Officer, he was actually a principal
7:49
at an elementary school. So a lot of times What
7:52
I hear from people in my role have with it, like
7:55
a rub with their district is they're like, our
7:57
CTO doesn't get it. Like I'm trying to do this
8:00
innovative thing and he's more maybe on the tech
8:02
side, if he will. And that's something that I'm
8:04
really grateful for here in Zinesville. So all
8:07
of our administrators have been principals. So
8:09
they understand the pedagogy, the how, which
8:13
is really cool. So then it makes it my job. I
8:16
guess so much easier because I'm like, oh great,
8:19
like we're all hopping and bopping and, you know,
8:21
sharing ideas and we're all excited about what
8:23
we're doing here. And especially even how we
8:26
entered the world of AI, I think was pretty revolutionary
8:29
and pretty innovative. So a lot of districts
8:32
were like, close it down. In fact, our networking
8:36
guy had blocked the site. And then we were like,
8:40
hey, I saw the site was blocked. Why was that?
8:42
And he was like, it's chat GPT. And we were like,
8:44
yeah. We're open again. He's like, oh, these
8:48
crazy innovators again. But those were some really
8:53
cool decisions and cool thought that we've been
8:55
able to have and kind of cultivate here in Zionsville.
9:01
Yeah, so that's definitely challenging when you
9:03
don't have the support of administrators. So
9:05
it's really kind of great to hear. that that
9:08
collaboration exists amongst the teaching staff,
9:13
amongst the administrators, the instructional
9:15
coaching, digital coaching side of things that
9:18
when that all comes together, how successful
9:21
that can really be in impacting student learning.
9:24
But what are some of the things that you would
9:26
point to as some of your successes in the last,
9:29
say, three years or so? So great question. And
9:32
then I realized I was like, I never answered
9:34
his question. So I lovingly got to follow the
9:38
footsteps of two other amazing digital coaches.
9:41
So there used to be two and then I was the third
9:43
one added. And really what I noticed with their
9:46
relationship with teachers is that they were
9:48
just kind of used to the coaching model. So a
9:50
lot of times that really helped. But because
9:53
Zionsville was so based in relationships, my
9:56
first year on the job, I just was like, I'm going
9:59
to build relationships. So that was my goal.
10:01
If I came into any place or any, you know, any
10:05
classroom, or if I would, you know, I tried to
10:07
eat in a staff lounge, I just try to be visible.
10:10
And being visible as one person divided by three
10:14
schools, plus I have administrative things that
10:17
I need to do here. That kind of made it, you
10:19
know, difficult, but I did my best. And so I
10:22
think cultivating those relationships really
10:24
helped people. Approach me more and say like
10:28
hey, okay I needed some help and I I would have
10:31
to say the biggest thing that I hear so if you
10:34
find yourself as a new coach listening is Where
10:38
I never love to judge right? So anytime I come
10:41
into a teacher and if they have a question even
10:44
if it's like, oh my gosh This is such an easy
10:46
answer you think in your head or if you're like,
10:48
I can't believe that this is what's going on
10:50
always lead in with kindness kindness and benevolence
10:54
of whatever teacher you're working with because
10:57
everybody is on their own journey with tech.
11:00
And you, if you have found yourself in a technology
11:04
role, it is because you're an expert and not
11:08
everybody has the privilege to be one of those.
11:12
So not everybody is you. And so trying to find
11:15
those moments to be like, you know, I don't know
11:17
how many times they're like, oh my gosh, I know
11:19
you're probably like, oh, Stevie, why do you
11:21
have so many tabs? And I'm like, no, I will help
11:23
you in here. in your Google browser, be able
11:26
to open up those tabs every single time. So you
11:29
do restart your computer more and they're like,
11:31
oh my gosh, that's so helpful. So meeting the
11:34
teachers, where they're at and where their needs
11:36
are, and not even teachers, everybody. I worked
11:40
with preschool staff, I worked with lunchroom
11:43
staff, just anybody that needs help at any time.
11:45
I think that's huge. Yeah, and I think you know
11:49
you touched on AI here slightly and then we can
11:52
pivot that way if that's where we want to go
11:53
here David but I think one of the things that
11:56
you said to me is really valuable and and to
11:59
me is also the reason why I don't foresee a time
12:03
where AI will replace teachers in the classroom
12:05
and I think it's exactly what you said it's the
12:08
relationship part of it right and you know you
12:11
talk more about relationship with the role that
12:13
you have as the digital coach with the educators
12:17
And that can include the kitchen staff and the
12:19
bus drivers and everybody else as an educator,
12:21
I think, as long as they work for that school.
12:24
But, you know, at the same time, those relationships
12:27
are something that AI can't do, you know, at
12:31
least in a healthy way. And I think that's a
12:35
really important thing to point out here as well,
12:38
too. And I think you're exactly right to focus
12:41
on those relationships. And it is really kind
12:42
of... It is really fun when you go in and you
12:45
give someone just a simple little thing, you
12:47
know, that will totally like, Oh, wow, I didn't
12:49
know you could do that. Like I want to open a
12:52
new document and I type doc .new and it comes
12:54
up, but I don't have to go to drive to open it.
12:57
You know, and it's, it's those little things
12:59
that you know, you've hooked that person. They're
13:00
going to be much more likely to listen to you
13:03
and the next thing that you, you come to them
13:05
with. So that that's really neat. Oh, great.
13:08
I love and I've had the privilege of being able
13:11
to listen to a lot of amazing speakers speak
13:14
on AI. And so I know that that, you know, going
13:16
to conferences is a privilege. It was something
13:18
I listened to on Alana Leone's podcast, as she
13:22
had had. She was talking about that yesterday.
13:24
And something that I also want to make sure to
13:28
know is that we as a society have a chance right
13:32
now to say, with the ethical use of AI, where
13:35
is AI's role? that relationship? Is it that therapist?
13:40
Is it that? Or is it more of a productivity app?
13:44
You know, is it working smarter, not harder situation?
13:47
So I think there's just some pause points that
13:50
I think sometimes we're just, you know, I think
13:53
it when AI first came out, everybody was like,
13:54
use it, use it, use it, no matter what you're
13:56
using it for. And now we're really starting to
13:59
dig into that. Let's have the considerations.
14:02
Let's teach into AI literacy. you know, should
14:04
we be calling it a she or her, you know, should
14:07
we be, you know, anamorphalizing that. So those
14:11
are just some of the things that have been rolling
14:13
around in my brain that again, I've been able
14:15
to listen to so many amazing speakers talk about
14:19
it, which is how I've been able to formulate
14:21
some of my thoughts and opinions on, on that
14:23
topic. We're talking with, uh, I would say too,
14:29
obviously we're talking with you and that's,
14:32
uh, great. Cause you know, you're, you, you've
14:34
kind of growing, uh, been recognized for some
14:36
of the work you're doing, but all these conversations
14:39
that Jeremy and I have had with, um, yourself
14:42
and then several others as well around AI, um,
14:46
it's been really interesting to see how people
14:49
are taking that all in. And, um, and, you know,
14:52
we work with a ton of schools and we see the
14:54
different responses. And as you mentioned, you
14:56
know, like your school at first got blocked and
14:59
that, you know, you had to kind of coax them
15:01
into, well, you know, we can actually use it
15:03
for. for these things, but, um, there's, so there's
15:07
been a lot of just in the last couple of months
15:10
here, there, there has been much more of an emphasis
15:13
I've seen with AI in terms of rather than just
15:17
grabbing, you know, this tool or that tool, there's
15:20
been much more of a focus on foundational concepts.
15:23
Um, and so AI literacy is getting, getting talked
15:26
about a lot, the, you know, like teachers need
15:29
to know what these systems are and how to use
15:31
them properly. And that should translate into,
15:35
it doesn't really matter what tool you use as
15:37
long as your foundational concepts are correct.
15:39
Um, and then there's a student element as well.
15:43
As you, so when you've been looking at what has
15:46
come out, and I wanted to ask you specifically
15:48
about the, um, the AI literacy framework that
15:51
just came out, um, Do you have any thoughts on
15:56
how that benefits teachers maybe in your own
16:01
district or just in general? Like what is that
16:04
AI literacy framework going to do for them to
16:07
empower them to actually be able to teach students
16:10
effectively about AI? I love that question. As
16:15
somebody who is boots on the ground with public
16:18
school educators, that is not something our educators
16:22
are ready for. And I think there's a big misconception
16:26
of something that I notice a lot with thought
16:29
leaders of AI. And I am here for that because
16:31
I think we need people that are shoveling the
16:34
pathway and saying, you know, this is the direction
16:36
we need to go. And I'm so grateful for those
16:38
really I don't know, just innovative thought
16:42
leaders that are being intentional with the work
16:45
that we're doing. And that document, when it
16:46
came out, I was so excited and nerded out on
16:48
it and sent it to everybody, all my nerdy people
16:51
and was like, this is so great. Because I think
16:53
we do need to be moving more intentionally with
16:56
that. But our teachers are still just, I'm just
16:59
still trying to get teachers to use AI. So I
17:02
think that's also, it's very helpful to kind
17:05
of like take a step back and to be like, okay,
17:07
because sometimes I'm like, I get asked to speak
17:10
at different conferences, and I'm like, do you
17:12
want me to go the AI literacy route or the productivity?
17:16
And a lot of it is surrounded by productivity
17:18
for right now. They're like, we're just trying
17:20
to get teachers to use the thing so we can get
17:23
used to it. And I think that is still true today.
17:27
Now, anytime I speak on AI, I always talk about
17:30
the considerations in AI. I used to call it when
17:33
I first started presenting on AI a couple of
17:36
years ago, and now it's more you know, AI literacy
17:40
and taking a look at some of those considerations.
17:42
So I always talk about it. I always make sure
17:45
that teachers understand that that's a thing,
17:47
that's a topic that they should be thinking about.
17:50
But it's definitely, I think it's still like,
17:53
teachers are still getting used to it themselves.
17:56
And so if we can start moving into the student
17:59
use in meaningful ways, rather than just teacher
18:02
usage, I think that's going to be something where
18:05
we're really going to start to see an impact
18:07
in education and to the right way. And so it'll
18:11
be, it's going to be an interesting year. When
18:14
AI first came out, you know, it was just like,
18:15
I don't even know what this is. And now, you
18:18
know, when I've asked teachers, you know, how
18:20
many of you are utilizing it? And, you know,
18:21
we have a dashboard, we have a magic school AI
18:24
enterprise, we wrote a grant for that and got
18:26
that for teachers. And so that was something.
18:29
So we have a dashboard so we can see the usage.
18:31
And it's not as much as we had once thought,
18:33
you know, we're like, oh, everybody's gonna use
18:34
it's gonna be great. But really what we're starting
18:37
to see is teachers using it. They're getting
18:40
comfortable with it. And so that's step one.
18:42
Step two is going to be student usage. And then
18:45
I think step three is going to be that AI literacy
18:47
component now that definitely should we down
18:50
absolutely into those areas. But it's those are
18:54
some really big thoughts and topics. And I have
18:58
my thoughts on those things too, because it's
19:00
like not everybody's here. Like, everybody thinks
19:03
we're here. And those in the AI space are here,
19:07
but the rest of everybody, and I mean, educators,
19:10
are not quite yet. But our student population,
19:13
they are absolutely there, utilizing it every
19:17
day. Yeah, yeah. And it's, I mean, it's interesting
19:22
trying to make the connection between, like,
19:25
informing teachers about things that students
19:29
are already knee deep in. and doing, you know.
19:32
So that's been an interesting aspect too. I know
19:38
I found when I have led presentations on AI for
19:42
teaching staff, I think one of the best things
19:45
that I have done is to model for teachers ways
19:48
that I use it personally as well as professionally.
19:53
Like I even had AI Chad GPT help me write a cookbook
19:57
because I kept asking it for so many different
20:00
recipes that all turned out so great. And I had
20:02
it help me collaborate and put them curated together
20:06
into a Google Doc cookbook. But, you know, do
20:10
you find things like that work to help bring
20:13
that reluctant teacher on board to using AI?
20:16
Or do you have other ideas, strategies, tips
20:20
that, you know, kind of help bring people to
20:23
see the positive? uses of AI both, you know,
20:27
maybe and maybe also then towards that professional
20:30
way. Absolutely. And as a school district, two
20:34
years ago, we started the school year off with
20:37
having a artificial intelligence service this
20:40
year, it felt so long ago. So the beginning of
20:43
this year, we all made sure that we all we met
20:45
with our assistant superintendent and our chief
20:48
innovative officer and we were like, okay, let's
20:50
all get on the same page. And we're all going
20:51
to give these back to school AI sessions with
20:54
all of our teachers. And we're going to talk
20:56
about all of these different considerations to
20:59
have. Now, I know you had Matt Miller on as well.
21:03
And so he's a great thought leader when it comes
21:05
to this topic. And so I showed his levels of
21:08
use of AI, which starts from like, if you're
21:11
going to say no AI in your classroom, you have
21:13
to be specific in each assignment. So for example,
21:16
are you saying no spell check? Are you saying,
21:18
you know, you can't use Grammarly. Can you use
21:20
it as a way to help organize? Can you use it
21:23
as a thought partner? So you really have to be
21:25
explicit with the different levels of use. And
21:27
when we showed that infographic to our staff,
21:29
that really, I think, for some of our staff clicked,
21:32
where they were like, yeah, some of it is OK.
21:37
It's fine if they go to it as a thought partner.
21:39
They would go to Google, or they would go to
21:42
a peer. So some of them were starting to draw
21:45
the line a little bit further down. than maybe
21:48
where they were once thinking they were going
21:50
to be drawing that line. So I think that was
21:53
a big, a big aha for my teachers to see like,
21:56
oh, okay, like some use of AI is okay. And as
22:00
a former English teacher myself, I was like,
22:02
will you please use the spell check? You know,
22:05
if you are turning it in and it is squiggled
22:07
under red, here's what this means and here's
22:09
how you should use it to help edit your documents.
22:11
And I think, you know, some of those examples
22:14
to teachers I know are definitely helpful. I've
22:17
definitely been a lot more intentional when it
22:19
comes to my productivity tips is because I have
22:22
to think about, is it really going to save time?
22:25
Do we really need to go to chat GBT to answer
22:27
that email or is it just going to take more time
22:31
than that humanity piece of you really connecting
22:33
with that kid or parent? And again, I've gotten,
22:37
I've wanted to send email sometimes to teach
22:39
or to parents or to students. And I'm like, I
22:41
don't know. how this is going to be taken and
22:44
I need to tone it down maybe a little bit more
22:47
or make it shorter, then those are great uses.
22:51
But Sada Kidwye, she's amazing, got leader around
22:53
AI, and she has a quote where she's like prompt
22:56
the human before the AI. And I think that is
22:58
such a great, great way and great thought process
23:01
that I've been trying to lead forward with too
23:04
as well. So I'm gonna have to steal the cookbook
23:07
idea though. That's solid gold. Like you talked
23:11
about when we were chatting beforehand, you know,
23:15
I share everything for free. So take it and run
23:18
with it. I'll send you, I'll share you a copy
23:21
of the Google doc here before we're done. Yay.
23:24
Well, thank you. I appreciate it. So, and Stevie,
23:28
you've talked a little bit about professional
23:29
developments and some, you've mentioned some
23:33
thought leaders like Asaba or Matt Miller. if
23:37
you're looking at some of the PD that you've
23:39
done in the past, and so it doesn't have to necessarily
23:41
be AI, but what have been the most effective
23:44
things that you've done with educators that you
23:48
definitely get more of this clicked with them,
23:52
this is working for them, maybe like a specific
23:56
example of things that you've done in an individual
23:59
session, and just thinking about if there's somebody
24:03
else other than Jeremy and I, or maybe Jeremy
24:06
and I, maybe we need some improvement tips as
24:08
well. But how can those that are working with
24:13
educators improve on their PD and how can schools
24:17
improve on opportunities for professional development?
24:21
So there's a couple of questions in there, but
24:23
what is the most, I think it boils down to what
24:26
is the most effective things that you've done
24:28
or have seen? I love this question. I definitely
24:32
think a lot of times that I've attended a lot
24:34
of sessions myself where we need to start with
24:37
the pedagogy. So we have experience with Microsoft
24:41
Flip. Tools can come and go, but that pedagogical
24:44
practice of amplifying student voice, that has
24:46
not gone away. We just have to replace the tool.
24:49
So I think a lot of times leading in with professional
24:52
development of like, here's why we're doing this.
24:55
And here's how this connects to best practices.
24:58
So a lot of times when I start a session, I will
25:01
talk about the SAMR model, which I felt I know
25:04
it gets some heat at different times. Some people
25:06
are like, I don't know, but I still really like
25:08
it. I still really support the SAMR model and
25:11
the depth of knowledge. So when I'm talking about
25:13
the level four depth of knowledge, if I'm hitting
25:16
on my level four depth of knowledge, if I'm in
25:18
the redefinition phase of the SAMR model, that
25:20
typically will start to yield itself to better
25:24
uses of tech. and not just tech for tech sake,
25:27
because a lot of times I will get, I use Microsoft
25:30
Bookings as a coach, and so I'll get somebody
25:32
that'll be like, I want to use this tool. And
25:35
I'm like, that's so great. Okay, what are you
25:37
doing in the classroom already? You know, like,
25:39
let's really fuse that into your curriculum rather
25:42
than it just being off here to the side. And
25:45
then those are my biggest wins with those teachers
25:48
is they're like, oh, wow, like, I don't just
25:51
have to, like, I can assess this. I don't just,
25:54
you know, this is my assessment. And it's like,
25:55
yes, it is. And so those I would have to say
25:58
are one of the most important components. Definitely
26:02
make sure that you lead forward with that pedagogy
26:05
because a lot of things that I see us using is
26:09
just replacement tools. Like instead of doing
26:11
the work scene on a computer, you know, instead
26:14
of doing it on paper, I'm going to do it on a
26:15
computer. Like unless you're talking about accessibility
26:18
with that component and that's why you want to
26:20
move to the tech, like why are you using the
26:22
tech in meaningful ways? So I think Those components
26:26
is what I always try to hit with teachers And
26:28
always give them something that they feel like
26:30
they can do when they leave like when I go to
26:33
teach my class tomorrow Because the job of an
26:36
educator is one of the most difficult jobs and
26:39
oversensitizing I've experienced middle school
26:41
as well. And that's a whole different gamut So
26:44
I definitely would have to say always think about
26:47
that with your teachers too where you're like,
26:49
here's something you can do tomorrow Here's a
26:51
little bit Like, get them into the tool if you're
26:55
talking about it, get them clicking around, and
26:57
then be there as a support. I would say those
27:00
would be my biggest tips. Yeah, and I'm a big
27:03
advocate, too, of hands -on. Like, it doesn't
27:05
really do too much good to, you know, stand at
27:08
the front and talk about how, like, Magic School
27:11
works, right? I mean, being able to actually
27:13
get your hands on it and play around with it
27:15
is extremely important for educators, so... So
27:23
one of the things recently is you were named
27:25
EdTech magazines one of 30 K -12 IT influencers
27:30
to follow in 2025. You know, kudos. Thank you.
27:36
Has that recognition influenced any of your work
27:40
that you have done or any opportunities that
27:43
have come about because of that recognition within
27:46
an EdTech community? Interesting question. I'm
27:50
a very humble person. So honestly, my answer
27:54
is like, no, I don't think so. I'm like, I don't
27:57
think anybody reads those things. But as somebody
28:00
who is kind of in the marketing world and in
28:02
all of that social media and everything, I do
28:05
think that it has an impact and an effect on
28:08
some of the great work that so many people are
28:10
doing. And so when I looked at that list and
28:13
I looked at who I was named next to, that was
28:15
such a privilege to me because I look up to a
28:18
lot of those people and then I was like, well,
28:20
maybe people look to me for that too, which also
28:24
made me really dig deep down into like before
28:28
you post anything, before you put anything out
28:30
there, you're like, let's talk about your digital
28:31
footprint. you know, really be intentional with
28:35
everything that you're saying. So it it definitely
28:38
has. I've seen I've been asked to do my first
28:40
keynote, which is very exciting for me. I am
28:43
definitely going to have to, you know, feed into.
28:46
And I'm every time I'm watching a keynote now,
28:47
I'm watching it with a different lens. You know,
28:50
so some of those opportunities I don't think
28:52
I would have been able to have without some of
28:54
that recognition. And I'm just so grateful that
28:56
there are people out there that have seen what
28:58
I've done and have taken it. You know, I'm like,
29:01
wow, OK, great. I wanted to give back to the
29:05
community that gave me so much. And I think that
29:08
is what is amazing about the professional learning
29:10
network of educators. And I can speak mostly
29:13
to the EdTech, because that's the world I'm in,
29:16
is I don't feel like there's anybody unapproachable.
29:19
You can go up to Matt Miller, who has tens of
29:23
thousands of followers, hundreds of thousands,
29:25
depending on which platform you see him on. And
29:28
he is the nicest guy and everybody will say that.
29:31
He'll be like, oh yeah, like he will help build
29:34
you up and amplify you just as much and be humble
29:37
about it all in the same regard. Because at the
29:40
end of the day, we're just all educators trying
29:42
to help kids. Like that's all we're trying to
29:46
do. So we're trying to find that best practice.
29:49
We're trying to find those components. If some
29:52
of them can turn it into a career, I think that's
29:54
great. You know, but I think sometimes from my
29:58
people in my professional learning network, that's
30:00
their end goal. And I'm like, that's amazing.
30:03
Your heart's in the right spot. And if you can
30:05
figure out a way to monetize that, like I'm here
30:07
for you. I will purchase your book. I found it
30:11
extremely refreshing. Just being able to have
30:13
some of the conversations that we've had, it's
30:15
been very easy to reach out to some folks about.
30:19
Uh, you know, like these interviews are, you
30:21
know, even just exchanging some messages on,
30:24
on LinkedIn or things like that. So, um, it's,
30:27
yeah, you're, you're definitely right on that.
30:28
It's very open and, um, a great community, I
30:32
would say. So, um, on the, you had just mentioned,
30:35
you know, like keynoting and things like that.
30:37
You just spoke at spark summit, which I'm not
30:39
sure if Jeremy knows this, but Jeremy likes Harry
30:42
Potter. There's definitely some Harry Potter
30:46
themes with the Sparks on it. Can you talk a
30:48
little bit about that? Because that was just
30:50
yesterday, right? It was, yes. So, Nadine Gilkeson,
30:54
she puts that on for her district and she's amazing.
30:57
I've just had the opportunity to be on a board
30:59
with her, the ICE affiliate or the ISTE affiliate
31:02
here in our state of Indiana as ICE and she and
31:05
I worked on the board together and I completed
31:07
a conference together too as well. So, it was
31:09
so fun to be able to rub shoulders with her and
31:12
get into her brain about that. But, so this was
31:14
her district and so she put it on. She always
31:16
loves a good theme. Last year was Taylor Swift
31:18
and this year's Harry Potter. But I myself am
31:21
not, I know Jeremy don't hate me for the fun,
31:24
but I'm not the biggest Harry Potter fan. I'm
31:26
not against it. I just was like, where it fell
31:29
in my life, I was just like, okay, but we are
31:33
reading the books to my sons. And this is, you're
31:37
gonna laugh. And I'm gonna tell him I brought
31:39
this up. He's gonna be like, I don't know why
31:40
he did this TV. But whenever he reads it aloud,
31:43
I fall asleep. And it's not because I'm bored.
31:48
It's just simply because I'm like, oh, I don't
31:50
have to do anything but listen to a book. And
31:52
then I, it's just inevitable. But the ages my
31:57
kids are, I kind of grew up with them a little
32:00
bit more at that time. That was, you know, a
32:03
new book would just come out and they were little
32:06
at the time, but they just liked mom and dad
32:08
reading to them too. So that was part of it.
32:11
But I remember this day awake. Well, I would
32:14
give him most of the reading because they were
32:16
still kind of little, but they, I think they
32:17
just loved mom and dad reading, but I made that
32:19
connection with them then too. And then of course,
32:21
you know, my son gets big into Legos and then
32:23
we've got to buy every sort of, you know, Lego,
32:26
Star Wars, Lego, Hogwarts, Lego, everything,
32:30
you know, so it was really cool. We're in the
32:34
Minecraft phase right now, because Steve's Love
32:37
a Chicken is definitely being sang with my children.
32:39
I don't know if anybody else resonates to that.
32:41
But that's my ages. So all of that being said,
32:45
I love Harry Potter. I think it's a great JR
32:47
Tolkien with her way to really get maybe more
32:50
reluctant readers into reading. I'm here for
32:53
that. But the conference was amazing. When I
32:58
was asked to kind of present, I was like, can
32:59
I just do one? Because I just want to attend.
33:02
I really want to soak in and just sit in some
33:05
of these amazing, great sessions that the other
33:08
six conferences I'm going to, I'm all day presenting.
33:11
And I don't oftentimes get that opportunity.
33:14
So that was definitely a time where I was like,
33:16
can I just present one? And then I was able to
33:19
play around with a presentation that I've done
33:22
before and I wanted to add more AI literacy into
33:25
it. So that was the perfect platform. I really
33:27
enjoyed it because it was, you know, a great
33:30
group of educators that were hungry and, you
33:32
know, they were excited about it. They were like,
33:34
this was free for me. And I'm like, that's great
33:36
that she gets her educators so hyped up and,
33:39
you know, willing to come back after school has
33:42
ended. And so kudos to her for the great work
33:45
that she's doing. Yeah, that sounds awesome.
33:50
So kind of connecting here with teachers here
33:52
a little bit. Recently, I had seen that you had
33:56
done some co -teaching with a fifth grade class
33:59
that were doing some podcasting, right? And so
34:03
since we are on a podcast here now, what was
34:07
that experience like? Do you think you have any
34:09
future podcasters out of the fifth graders that
34:11
you were working with that we need? David and
34:14
I might need to be concerned about his competition.
34:17
So I love student podcasting. That is where I
34:20
really started my platform. I was on student
34:23
-driven podcasting, and I started with my class
34:26
that was in the year 19. Listen to that. We were
34:31
in 2019 and 2020. So everybody remembers what
34:35
happens in that year. So when I first started
34:38
doing that, it was in November. And that was
34:41
my first time I ever tried student podcasting
34:44
with students. And we went ahead and went for
34:46
the NPR student podcast challenge, because why
34:48
not? If I'm going to do something, I'm like,
34:50
go big or go home. So we did that. And actually,
34:55
one of my students won an honorable mention.
34:57
So I mean, talk about where you're like. Wow,
35:00
so much momentum, so much great energy around
35:03
what's going on. So I've been doing student podcasting
35:07
since that time. I've always done it either in
35:09
my classroom or when I went out of the classroom.
35:12
That was my teacher bestie that I went in, though
35:14
she still continued on the torch. And so I was
35:17
like, you have to invite me back. And she's like,
35:20
well, I know you're so busy. I was like, oh,
35:21
no, no. I want to see the student podcasting.
35:24
It is one of the most transformative tools that
35:27
I see. When you talk about building relationships
35:30
with students, there are some reluctant kids
35:33
that you're going to have come into your classroom
35:34
and they're not going to connect with you in
35:36
any way, shape or form. But if you're like, hey,
35:38
we're doing podcasting, that increased engagement,
35:41
you're able to make that connection with them
35:43
and then in a different way. So I've had several
35:46
student connections that I've been able to really
35:48
deepen that relationship because I was labeled
35:51
the reading teacher and some kids come through
35:53
my door and they're like, I'm not good at reading.
35:55
I don't want to read. Sometimes by middle school,
35:59
you're like, it's not just, oh, you haven't found
36:01
the right book anymore. Like, that doesn't work
36:03
for everybody. But what I really enjoyed was
36:06
the fact that these students were like, oh, we're
36:08
doing something different. We're looking around.
36:11
And I really enjoyed that, digging into my students
36:14
and digging into what they're passionate about
36:17
and handing them a mic and being like, here,
36:20
here's your microphone. Talk about it. But that
36:23
was one of the most amazing. I love doing student
36:26
podcasting for sure. Yes, that is my baby. Just
36:30
what a great way for kids to be able to express
36:32
themselves, to share their learning, to share
36:34
their their passions, you know, at the same time.
36:37
Just really, really impactful. I think that's
36:40
something they'll definitely remember, too. Yeah.
36:42
And I like all those opportunities, too, just
36:44
because we don't we don't really live in just
36:46
like the, you know, submit your paper world anymore.
36:49
There's so many different methods which, you
36:51
know, Students can show their work, their understanding
36:55
of things through presentations and audio formats,
36:59
video formats. It's all really interesting. So
37:03
there was another one that we saw too, in looking
37:06
at some of the work that you've done with, this
37:08
was, I think, a different project altogether,
37:13
but because of, with living in Indiana and you
37:16
have the Indianapolis 500, you also did there
37:19
was a project that you did with some fifth graders
37:21
that was centered around that event. Can you
37:25
tell us a little bit about about that? Oh, yes.
37:29
So Indy 500 is definitely it is like a month
37:33
long celebration here in Indiana. I have been
37:36
to probably like 15 or 20 of them. And then finally,
37:38
I had to tell my grandpa. It's like, OK, I'm
37:41
I'm done. You have great tickets, but I'm done.
37:44
Like you take other people. That is fine. But
37:47
it is such an amazing event and a lot of our
37:49
kids and families, they'll either be a part of
37:51
like racing, so either like part of their family
37:54
works in racing or something of that sort. So
37:56
there's deep rooted connections here in Indiana.
37:59
And so we have them create us, write a script.
38:02
So I had the students, I taught every single
38:04
fifth grader at Zionsville West Middle School
38:06
and one day, like I was exhausted after that,
38:09
but. We had 30 minutes because they just went
38:12
through different pit stops of the day and I
38:14
was just one of them with my teacher, Bestie.
38:17
And so when I was like, okay, I have 30 minutes.
38:20
I want them to do anime to audio in Adobe Express.
38:24
But I know that's not a ton of time to really
38:26
lean into writing. So all week they had been
38:28
working on researching one of their favorite
38:30
drivers. So I was like, well, what if they plugged
38:33
in all of their research that they had done,
38:35
not in AI. plugged in all of their research and
38:38
then threw it into Magic School AI and I uploaded
38:41
the rubric and all of my expectations for them
38:43
and said write a one -minute script being this
38:46
driver, about this driver. And then once they
38:49
did that then they would just read it aloud to
38:52
animate to audio. So a lot of the kids turned
38:54
themselves into mouse and then some of them turned
38:58
themselves into avocados. Some of them turned
39:00
themselves into popcorn. But again, it was kind
39:04
of one of that component where I talked about
39:06
with Microsoft with going away, amplifying student
39:08
voice is amazing. And any time you can do that,
39:12
you just got to find the right tool. And so that's
39:15
why I used Magic School AI as a way to make that
39:18
script writing quicker and more efficient. But
39:21
then we also coupled it with that fun project.
39:25
And then through Adobe Classrooms, they were
39:27
able to see everybody else's. So in that Adobe
39:31
classroom that I had that assignment, every student
39:34
was able to see all fifth graders on there. And
39:37
then they had the time of their life in there.
39:39
So that was definitely top tier, one of the most
39:42
fun projects I've done all year. So thank you
39:44
for pointing that out and let me talk about it.
39:46
That was great. Yeah. And I think it's great
39:48
that you have so many of those things on your
39:51
LinkedIn, probably other places too, but that's
39:53
where I've come across some of them. So it's
39:55
fun to watch. Yeah, that's just great to hear
39:58
you share some of these examples because I think
40:00
those are the things that will spark an idea
40:02
in someone else and they're gonna find a way
40:04
to adapt what you've done and totally make it
40:07
their own about their own About their own content.
40:09
They teach your age level kids. Yeah So, you
40:13
know, you mentioned Matt Miller a couple of times
40:15
and I know when we had him on to we talked about
40:18
the tomorrow glasses or the future glasses that
40:20
he talks about here, so And I know we're coming
40:23
up on the end of our time, but what do you see
40:26
out there on the horizon? Put on those tomorrow
40:29
glasses or those future glasses. Where is EdTech
40:33
headed in the next, whether it's pedagogically
40:38
or whether it's the technology, what direction
40:41
is that going, say, in the next three to five
40:43
years? Oh, wow. So I get a crystal ball experience
40:47
here. So I would have to say AI is either going
40:51
to force education to change practices and change
40:57
assessments, or we're going to just continue
41:00
to see this old school way of teaching that really
41:07
hasn't changed in a long time. What do I mean?
41:11
I mean, a lot of times, I was still having my
41:14
students write the same essays that I was asked
41:16
to write, which is why I pivoted to podcasts.
41:19
Because I was like, I'm giving information, it's
41:21
organized, we're writing, I'm hitting the same
41:24
standards, but it's in a different way. And we
41:27
have to really restart, rethink how we're doing
41:30
things in order to, I think, see a bigger change
41:33
and see more evidence of learning and stop seeing
41:37
just evidence of cheating. with AI. So we've
41:40
either really got to lean into like, okay, if
41:43
AI can do this, maybe I don't have them do AI.
41:48
Maybe I don't have them do that assignment, right?
41:50
Maybe I have them rethink about it. So like,
41:52
for instance, as animate to audio fiction, like
41:55
figurines that we did, that's AI proof. So that's
41:58
kind of where I've leaned in with my teachers
41:59
where I'm like, AI can't do that for the student.
42:02
I used AI. right, to help write the script and
42:04
to help do that. But it didn't do the research
42:06
for them. So where does AI fit in? Where does
42:09
it not fit in? And how are you going to assess?
42:12
I think that if we can really start to, as educators,
42:15
grasp onto that concept, change our assessments,
42:19
then I think we can start leading into this more
42:21
innovative direction. We'll see. I'll have to
42:27
play this back in like three to five years and
42:28
see how we did. See how accurate it was. We'll
42:32
hold you to that too. Yes, but they've been saying,
42:35
and even before AI, they were like the five paragraph
42:38
essay is dead, which I know is a hot topic. And
42:40
I was an English teacher. So, I mean, it'll be
42:43
interesting to see if AI really starts to change
42:46
that or not. So, we'll see. Yeah. And I think
42:50
you mentioned this earlier, but I'm a big fan
42:52
too of like looking at assessments and things
42:56
that students are doing. There's ways that you
42:58
can you can fold AI into the different aspects
43:01
of a project that don't totally take, you know,
43:06
the, they, you know, like we hear the term cognitive
43:08
offload where there's really, there's no, there's
43:11
no struggle involved for the students. And I
43:13
think some of the most interesting work being
43:14
done right now is just with the assessments and
43:17
ways that you can still maintain those things,
43:20
but still allow students to use tools like AI.
43:22
So there's, there's definitely opportunities
43:24
there. But I know, I know we're, I'm running
43:28
short on time here, and so I wanted to give you
43:30
an opportunity at what upcoming work or dates,
43:35
appearances, anything that you have coming up
43:37
that you'd like to highlight, and where can people
43:39
follow your work? Where are you most posting
43:43
your things? I know LinkedIn is one, but... Absolutely.
43:47
So professionally, I am on LinkedIn and Twitter
43:49
X, also on Blue Sky as well. I reserve my Instagram
43:53
and Facebook for personal use. Nobody wants to
43:55
see pictures of my kids every day. That's that's
43:57
for the family, family and friends. And then
44:00
I post a lot on my resources on steviefrank .com
44:03
as well. And I'm going to be presenting next
44:06
Wednesday and next Thursday at some Indiana conferences.
44:09
And I always post where I'm going to be at, definitely
44:12
on those different profiles of LinkedIn and X.
44:16
Thank you for letting me share some of my stuff
44:19
and what I've got going on. Yeah, definitely.
44:21
And thanks for joining us. We'll be sure to put
44:23
all of the resources so that our viewers can
44:27
access those and see some of the work that you're
44:29
doing in our show notes that we put out. So Stevie,
44:34
thanks again for joining us. We really appreciate
44:36
it and look forward to hopefully talking to you
44:39
again sometime. Well, thank you so much. I appreciate
44:42
you all sharing your time. It is a precious commodity
44:45
you can never get back. So thank you for having
44:47
me on. Thanks for listening to Integrate This.
44:51
Want to take your learning further? Head over
44:53
to our YouTube channel for quick tutorials, deep
44:56
dives, and more ed tech tips you can use right
44:59
away. Don't forget to subscribe and catch new
45:02
podcast episodes every Thursday on Apple, Spotify,
45:07
or wherever you get your podcasts. Until next
45:10
time, keep exploring, keep innovating and keep
45:13
integrating this.