Latest / Send & Grow by SparkLoop / The Future of Newsletters: Insights & Predictions — with Yong-Soo Chung of First Class Founders
Transcript
- EP 36 - Yong-Soo Chung === Yong-Soo Chung: [00:00:00] I think that the, the newsletter space is evolving very quickly and it, it's because we have amazing ESPs now and it's almost like the newsletters are becoming discovery platforms now. Mm-Hmm. And what I mean by that is because of great tools like Spark Loop, essentially when you subscribe to one newsletter, you get recommended. Few others based on similar audiences. And so this mechanism has never really been available. You know, I'd say, what, two years ago? Yep. Two, two plus years ago. Dylan Redekop: Welcome to the Send and Grow podcast. I'm your host, Dylan Retikoff. In my day job at Spark Loop, I spent all my time analyzing how the best newsletter operators and media brands in the world grow and monetize their audiences. I get a behind the scenes look at how they're growing their newsletters and driving revenue, and there is so much to learn from their success and from their mistakes. With this podcast, you get that access too. Every week I sit down with a different guest from industry [00:01:00] experts to successful operators, and we go deep on the stuff that you need to know so you can become really effective at growing and monetizing your newsletter. In today's episode, I'm joined by Yongsu Chung. A serial entrepreneur and the Brains Behind First Class Founders a content platform built to merge creative content and entrepreneurial spirit. Yongsu already managed several businesses under his personal hold-Co. Before starting first class Founders. Instead of starting simple, Yongsu dove in headfirst pairing a weekly newsletter. And a high quality podcast that's featured guests like Jay Abraham, Chanel Basilio, Andrew Warner, and Nick Huber to name a few. First Class Founders is an impressive content undertaking for someone running multiple businesses, and that's why I wanted to have Yongsu on the podcast. We dive into how creators are evolving into company founders and why founders are increasingly becoming creators. Yongsu shares, why he builds his newsletter in public, and the impact it's had on his journey. How [00:02:00] he's using his newsletter to grow his podcast, his innovative strategies for newsletter growth and his predictions for the future of newsletters in the business landscape. Yongsu, it's great to have you here. To start us off, could you tell us more about First Class Founders, its audience and its core Yong-Soo Chung: mission? My name is Yongsu Chang. I am a serial entrepreneur. The past eight years, I haven't really thought about myself as a personal hold co-owner, but, you know, speaking to a lot of other creators and, you know, I stumbled upon this, this terminology of a personal hold, co. And, uh, looking at my, my trajectory, I, I, I. Literally have a personal hold call with three other businesses. Uh, one is a pocket knife business, one is a French Bulldog business, uh, leveraging my French Bulldogs audience. And the other one is a three PL. And I guess the fourth one now that's just starting is first Class Founders, which is my podcast and newsletter. And, and that's really, um, you know what I'm, I'm kind of focused on now as I transition into the next phase [00:03:00] of, of my, uh. My career. So first Class Founders is, uh, it's a podcast, it's a newsletter for, uh, for creators and founders. 'cause my my belief is that in the future creators, the ones with, you know, large audiences are engaged, uh, they're gonna be creating companies. And I believe that company founders who are real good operators, they're actually gonna want become creators to leverage distribution of their own personal brand. And so, I think we'll kind of see this merging. Of like, if you'd like, imagine a Venn diagram like that sweet spot in the middle, middle where there's like founders and creators and kind of like that middle spot is where we're gonna end up, um, in the future. And so with first class Founders, I'm trying to, you know, you know, I'm kind of, um, exploring both sides of audience building and company building, and especially like people who are right in the middle. Um, that is like a really interesting, uh, place for me to dive into. And so. Yeah, that's, um, what I've been up to. Nice. And so Dylan Redekop: would you say the people right in the [00:04:00] middle, you mean the people who are like kind of a little bit entrepreneurial and people who are also, you know, online creators for lack of a better term, that those are the, the people you're really Yong-Soo Chung: trying to target? Exactly. Yeah. So essentially, uh, creators who have built audiences, but they haven't really leveraged them to build companies yet. But I think they will become company operators. Uh, and then mm-hmm. Founders who are really interested in the company building side. To be honest, it's like, kind of like me. 'cause I've been company building for, for eight years now, but I wasn't online sharing anything, uh, you know, and now I, I am. And so, um, I think we'll kind of see this intersection. Professional creators and professional company builders kind of like, you know, do both. And so that's what is really intriguing to me. Why do you think you will see this intersection? Well, you can already see some of this stuff happening with larger creators, like, I mean, mm-Hmm. Talk about like Logan Paul, you know, starting Prime and you know, just partnering up with all these brands. I mean, Mr. Beast with Feastables. I mean, these are things that are already happening. And they're happening with [00:05:00] larger creators. But I do think that, you know, this will trickle down into the smaller creators and more niche creators. So not like the celebrity type creators, but more of the, you know, the, the online education like niche topic creators. I think that will also, right this concept of like creators learning to become company operators, um, will continue. And then on the other side, I think founders are. You know, I'm one myself, where I, I realized that, that there's a power of like, just the media, you know, just getting out there and sharing. Yeah. Building in public, like sharing your journey, like this is really powerful to just drive awareness of your brand. I. In a very authentic, natural way where it doesn't feel like a press release, for example, or paid advertising. 'cause these are, you know, I feel like people are kind of over these, these things, right. But like a hundred percent building something authentic, you know, is something that I think is, is kind of be the next wave of, uh, pr almost almost like, yeah. PR, marketing, whatever. Yeah. Um, but so I think it's [00:06:00] important for founders to. Have an online presence, so Mm-Hmm. From both sides, it's kind of happening. Dylan Redekop: Yeah. And I think, you know, a really good example, one of the last conversations I had on this podcast was with Bill Kerr, who runs Athena, um, which is a Go global talent platform. He also just in 2023 launched, um, open source CEO, which is a newsletter. And so he's like a CEO for a, you know, remote SAS team. And he's started this newsletter, which he's keeping them as two separate entities, but he's really kind of like. Playing into the, um, creator field as well, because I think he sees exactly what you see as this opportunity to be more authentic, to, to show your personality, um, to share, you know, learnings and experiences and, and wisdom and not have it be this, you know, sort of boring formal, I. Press release kind of, Yong-Soo Chung: kind of status. Yeah, I, I know Bill pretty well and, um, yeah, I know that's exactly what, what he's doing. So, Mm-Hmm. I think the, the smart, smart founders will, will realize that they need to have a public-facing [00:07:00] personality to attract. You know, I mean, not even customers, but just people that like your brand. Mm-Hmm. And they will tell other people about it and it's just a, a really good way to engage with, um, the public, I guess. Dylan Redekop: Yeah. I mean, help with the recruitment and everything like that too. Yeah. As well. Right. So, great. So cutting right into the meat of it, you're doing this really, um, symbiotic relationship between your newsletter and your podcast, and I heard you speaking with Jeremy. A recent ish edition of your podcast. And Jeremy's a a really savvy marketer. He's really good at podcast marketing. That's kind of his, that's his niche. That's his forte. He also writes a, a couple newsletters too. So you mentioned to Jeremy that you're using your newsletter to funnel people to your podcast. I'd love to, you know, kind of just start a bit broad and had you talked us more about your approach to really just like that whole sort of strategy and how you're building first-class founders that way. The Yong-Soo Chung: way that I see this, um, you know, is kind of, um. You know, you, you gotta have a discovery [00:08:00] platform. So whether it's, you know, X, LinkedIn, Instagram, whatever it is, you need to be out there in, in the algorithms, unfortunately, to get people's attention. Mm-Hmm. And so. Constantly posting organic content is, is great. Um, and then you need to obviously drive people to the next step, which is, uh, in my opinion, the best way to do that is, is an email list. Um, you can drive people to your website, you know, and then you can have like a pop-up or something to collect emails or whatever, but like. Really, um, for me, I, I just go directly to the email. Mm-Hmm. Just because it's something that you own, it's an own relationship. And then also it's, uh, a very low hanging fruit. Like, you know, it's, um. It's something where if you just see, oh, like, oh, I can enter my email. Like it's not a huge commitment. Whereas like a podcast is like, okay, hey, have you, you know, listened to an episode of my podcast? It's like, you know, that's like 20, 30 minutes of my time. And it's not [00:09:00] easy to really ask your audience for that at that moment in time. And so the best way, in my opinion, is to gather emails and. Then the next part of the funnel is getting people to listen to your podcast. And so like, that's kind of like my funnel now is like social platforms, then the newsletter, and then the podcasts and then, um, yeah, that, that's it right now. But then, you know, in the future I plan to have a YouTube and everything, so that'll, right. That might change, but right now that's what it is. Right. Um, just Dylan Redekop: as you were saying that. It got me thinking like, you know, with a newsletter too, you have, you've welcome, welcome emails, a welcome sequence, uh, with podcasts. It's like, boom, I'm hitting you right away. You gotta like, invest half an hour, an hour into, into my podcast. You almost need a welcome sequence for your podcast. Uh, like here's, here's like, uh, three snippets of, of our, uh, of our greatest hits, if you like it. Uh, just in a side thought, but in terms of, in terms of newsletters and podcasts, do you think every podcast [00:10:00] should have a newsletter? And should every newsletter have a Yong-Soo Chung: podcast? That's a good question. I'd say that, um, so you gotta think about like, audience, so like a lot of podcasters and podcast listeners are not as big into newsletters and vice versa. A lot of newsletter writers or newsletter consumers are not podcast listeners. Hmm. And I've actually found this to be true when, you know, when I send out newsletters, some people don't know that it's a podcast newsletter type thing. Right. And so. They'll be like, oh, I thought there's gonna be more content on this. And I was like, well, the content is there. It's just that you prefer to just read it versus consuming it on audio. Right. And so I think it's, it's really you gotta do both, in my opinion. 'cause your audience hangs out in both Mm-Hmm. You know, whatever they're doing. But I think that for podcasts, because it's so hard to get discovered on, you know, just randomly Yeah. That you, that a newsletter serves as a natural. [00:11:00] Almost like a discovery platform for podcasts. And so I do think each podcast needs to have a newsletter. And a newsletter I don't think necessarily needs a podcast, but I, I just think it's a low hanging fruit. So if you're writing a newsletter, then you can kind of, you can just narrate it yourself and you can have an audio version of your newsletter as a podcast, and that will just. Increase your distribution. Right. So yeah, I just think you gotta do both. Yeah. Well there's, I mean, there's Dylan Redekop: people who have to commute a long ways to work and Right. Maybe their favorite newsletter, they just, you know, by the time they actually get to work, you don't have time to read it. They don't have time to read it before work. If you had an audio version of it. There's probably a good number of people who would just love to, you know, listen to the 15 minute version of it, of your newsletter on their way to work. So, and it's low lift if you've already written it right, to just, you know, hit record. So I think that's a good piece of advice. I was gonna ask you what you know, when does it make the most sense to pair a newsletter with a podcast? But I think that's a really good example. Um. You've got first class Founders where you are doing, you know, quite a [00:12:00] bit. If, if anybody has listened to your podcast, they can hear the level of time you put into it. Mm-Hmm. There's a lot of editing that goes, goes on. And I'm, you have a podcast editor that, you know, helps you with that, but I. There's a lot of thought and preparation that goes even to it before you hand it over to the, to the podcast editor. So, and on top of that, you're writing the newsletter, so can you give us like a behind the scenes look at what a week in the life of first class founders for you is? Like, what does a typical week look like to get the podcast, you know, produced, recorded, published, and then the same thing with your Yong-Soo Chung: newsletter. Yeah. So I am a huge fan of, um, delegation. Nice. And so, um. To be honest, I don't, it doesn't take me that long, which sounds crazy. It does. Um, so I believe you, but it does. I have a producer who is amazing and, um, he takes on a lot of the work himself for the podcast stuff. So he actually scripts a lot of my narrations and also obviously I'll do the, for the guest interviews, I will do the interviews and [00:13:00] then he will pick out soundbites. And essentially he'll create a script based on those soundbites. But obviously we will go, we will sync up, we have a sync up every Monday Okay. For about an hour. And we, we just discuss, hey, like how should we, what are the big themes for these for this episode? Uh, and then we kind of craft the, you know, craft the theme. And then he'll go back and like, get the soundbites that we need. To do, uh, you know, to craft the episode. And so a lot of times, like that's gonna also be on me to make sure that I'm asking the right questions during the podcast interview. Mm-Hmm. And so I'm always thinking about the packaging of the episode. So, like, for example, you know, I want the podcast interview to have some kind of like progression or theme. And so, for example, like I, I really like to have. I dunno steps. So like 10 step process into doing X, Y, and Z. And so I'll get, when I talk to someone on, um, you know, on, on, uh, Riverside, which is what we're using mm-Hmm. I'll essentially lead them down that path of steps one through 10 [00:14:00] with like different stories. And so I like to think of the, the packaging beforehand and I'll discuss it with my producer. But then once it's done, then it's all on him to do, create the script. And then I'll do a secondary narration. Like he'll gimme the script. And then I record the little bits and pieces of narration that go in between the sound bites. And then after that I do a bunch of takes. So essentially he'll gimme, okay, he'll gimme back the, the script and say, Hey, you know, you, you are meant to say because of, but you actually said and of whatever. So like, can you retake this? And so I have retakes to do. And so, yeah, I mean, it's, it's definitely a process, but I, I feel like the end product is, is pretty good. Mm-Hmm. And really, I've, I've delegated a lot to my producer and so he just essentially just tells me what to do. I'm almost like, um. It's almost like I'm an actor and like, yeah, you're a talent, you're hired talent. I'm, I'm a talent. And, and yeah, exactly. And, uh, you know, I'm told what to do almost. And then on the newsletter side, I have an executive [00:15:00] assistant who sets up the newsletter structure each week. Okay. And so literally, uh, she coordinates the cross promos. With o other newsletters, she gathers all the newsletter metrics and stats, and all I need to do is give her the links. So I have a section there where I, I, where I find cool links that I, you know, yeah, stumble upon on the weekends or whatever. And so I'll put those links in and then I'll do my little blurb. Um, and then that's it. She does the podcast, um, cover art. She does all the, you know, everything else, but I just need to read through it and make sure it's in my voice. And so I'll make sure that it's not just like. Some rant, like some copy that's not personal. So I, I will like change up Yeah. The copy, yeah. If necessary. But for the most part, it's all written, so all I have to do is just, just kind of paraphrase it here and there, and then do the links and, um, wow. That's about it, so. Wow. That's awesome. So yeah. Dylan Redekop: How much time would you say per week, on average, would it take to get the [00:16:00] podcast produced, you know, including your hour meetup and then also your newsletter created? Yong-Soo Chung: Um, I would say. Probably about four hours each or total, uh, total per week. Wow. Wow. That's a, Dylan Redekop: you've got, you gotta, uh, fine tune. That's awesome. It's impressive. So, uh, thanks for sharing that. I really appreciate that. I think a lot of people would be interested to, 'cause on the surface it looks like it a ton of work, but when you really, um, are able to delegate like you are and um, you know, have the capacity and the ability to hire out people to support you, then, then once you get systems in, processes in place, it really. That really helps. So that's, that's really cool. Yeah. Yong-Soo Chung: Last year we launched the most generous affiliate program in the newsletter space. Send just a handful of newsletters our way and you can unlock tens of thousands of dollars every month. And now we're turning up the heat, we're sending our top earning affiliate partner with a plus one on a free all-inclusive trip to Cancun. You can win. [00:17:00] Just share Spark loop with newsletter operators before April 30th. They get free access to the most popular newsletter recommendations network, and unlock millions of dollars in easy extra revenue. By recommending the world's best newsletters, you get a 30% commission win-win. It's that easy. See you on the beach. Dylan Redekop: He spoke. At the very beginning about your personal hold co and you know, you've posted on Twitter that over the, uh, number of years that you've had it, you've got it to over $20 million. Mm-Hmm. Uh, you're very open about your growth and your revenue. First-class founders, um, as well, your newsletter and your podcast. And so I'm wondering, you know, a lot of people. Hold, especially, you know, financials closer to their vest. Um, they don't necessarily wanna show all their cards. So why are you building this all so publicly? What is, what do you see the benefit, uh, to you for doing that? Um, Yong-Soo Chung: the first thing I'll say actually is that I don't believe building a public is for everyone. And I don't believe, I think there's a, there's a place in time for [00:18:00] it, but I think that eventually as you grow and scale and you get to a certain stage, I actually think it might hurt you. Mm. And so I'll kind of explain that a bit. Basically. At the beginning stages of any projects like First Class Founders, what I'm trying to do is get people to follow along on my journey and by sharing metrics and. Things that I'm learning, uh, you know, whether it's good or bad. Um, it really kind of, um, I don't know. It creates this sense of community and this sense of like, oh, I really want, want to see, you know, first-class founders succeed. Right? Right. And so it's a really good thing in the beginning to get that initial, I don't know, traction or like people that are interested in help, like kind of seeing you grow. Yeah. And so that's why I'm doing. First-class founders in public. Um, now I think that at, at a certain point, let's say it grows, and I mean, you know, who knows, but let's say it's super successful and it's, you know, one of the top shows or whatever. Then at that point [00:19:00] it will like the purpose of, of like the stuff that I just told you, like, I don't think it serves that purpose anymore. It's almost like everyone already knows, knows about the show and like, it's almost like people will. Listen carefully and like see how you're doing it and they'll just copy you right, at a certain point. And so I think there's this inflection point where you wanna build in public to a certain point, but then once you get to a certain stage, it, it doesn't make sense to continue doing it that way. And I don't know what that inflection point is. And it's very different depending on what you're sharing in public. Like if it's a SaaS company, then you know, it, it could be, um, you know, once you hit, I don't know. Let's say a hundred K MRR or something, whatever it is, but like Mm-Hmm. People will also look at you and be like, wow, like I'm not relatable anymore, right? This guy is way successful and he's way ahead, and therefore, like, I need to follow someone else who's like just a little bit ahead of me. And so like mm-hmm. At a certain point it doesn't make sense, but it's really good at the beginning stages, in my opinion. Dylan Redekop: [00:20:00] To just lay it all on the table, show people how you're doing it. Yep. Yeah, I think you're right. I think you're right. So do you think more newsletters could benefit from, um, or let's even, not necessarily newsletters, but content creators, uh, could benefit from building in public? Yong-Soo Chung: I think so if your audience is the people who are gonna be following along on that journey. Hmm. So for example, like if I'm writing a newsletter for, I don't know, car lovers. I'm, I'm like writing and I'm saying, Hey, I have 10,000 subscribers for this newsletter. I don't know if people would really care. Like those car lovers would really care, but like, because it's creators and founders, it's business oriented that I feel like it, it kind of, it it works because they're curious about the business side of first class founders. Right. Right. Yeah. Uh, and so it has to make sense in that regard also, like the audience has to be curious about. How I'm, I'm growing the business and, and things like that, uh, in order to make sense. Dylan Redekop: Yeah. And which it does so that the way you're doing it, it [00:21:00] would, that's a good example of the, uh, car aficionados as well. Might not be, yeah. Might not be on Twitter. Caring about how people are building car newsletters. Um, let's shift a little bit to growth now. Where, where are you at for first subscribers, for first class Yong-Soo Chung: founders these days? Uh, just north of 12,000 subscribers, Dylan Redekop: just north. Okay, nice. Yeah. And roughly Yong-Soo Chung: a year old? Um, roughly about a year old. Yes, exactly. Yeah. Okay. Dylan Redekop: So how have you gotten to 12,000? That's about a thousand subscribers a month, which to some people might not maybe seem like a lot, but for me, who's, you know, tried to grow a newsletter myself and, you know, never really surpassed the 5,000 point after over two years. Like, to me that's pretty impressive. So how did you, yeah, how did you go about growing the newsletter? Yong-Soo Chung: Yeah, so I talk about five growth levers of newsletter growth. Mm-Hmm. And so the first growth lever, which I think everyone should start with, is just organic content. So find a discovery channel like x LinkedIn, whatever, and just start getting your ideas out there. Just [00:22:00] start getting people on your newsletter. Just be like, Hey, you know, I'm, I'm gonna, did you like this? Like, I'm gonna write more about, you know, the top 10 things I learned doing X, Y, and z. Next week sign up if you wanna learn more and like. It'll be slow at the start. Mm-Hmm. Like everyone has to start slow. Um, but you'll start to get trickle, you know, trickling in subscribers here and there. Uh, and so that's kind of the first growth lever, which is like organic content. Mm-hmm. Right. Uh, the second growth lever is, is partnerships and collaborations. And so. This is, you know, cross-promoting with other newsletters who may also be in the same subscriber range as you are. So let's say you're around like a thousand to 3000 subscribers, like you could start reaching out to people. Join a community, uh, you know, there's a bunch of Discord communities out there for newsletters. Just talk to them, get friendly with them, and then work out a deal where you're like, oh, I'll post about your newsletter if you post about mine. And the deal can be, um, it can be, [00:23:00] it doesn't have to be one for one. So if you have a larger newsletter. And you wanna be in there and you have a smaller newsletter. You can do like a, like a three-for-one or like a five-for-one, right? So it doesn't always have to be a one-for-one. Um, and then one other way that I, um, or I guess there's two other ways. Um, the giveaway Giveaways are, in my opinion, they're underutilized, but it's a little bit of a hit or miss. Um, but I, I've done one and it, it, it. Brought in some high quality subs, which was, to be honest, a little bit surprising for me, but, but it did, it did work. Um, but there's a lot of coordination involved. Like you gotta have people like opting in and stuff. Yeah. So there's that. And then the last thing I'll talk about is recommendations. When someone signs up for a newsletter, there's like a recommendation. Engine that pops up that widget or whatever. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And, and so using that to, uh, you know, reaching out to other newsletters who are growing fast. And so here you don't care about newsletter size, you want the growth rates because that's gonna determine how often that widget is shown [00:24:00] to other. Possible subscribers. And so those three things are, um, for, for collaborations and partnerships. The next thing I would look at is virality, which is, which is a referral program. And so you really need a, a good core base, um, for referral program. And so. I'd say, you know, I, I dabbled with referral programs around the 10000th scrubber mark and, um, I actually had a, like a longer piece that I wrote and I called it like Yongsu's private journal. And so you could start reading those after just one referral. And so best practices for a good referral program, make it really simple. Have the first reward be at the one mm-Hmm. Referral mark. And then. I think it's like 3, 5, 7, or 10. Like, just make it really, really like, you know, don't go from like one to 10. 'cause then it's like such a high barrier. Yeah. Try not to do something that requires, like shipping out something physical, like stickers or like, 'cause that is a whole different operation thing that you [00:25:00] don't really wanna mess with. And so keep things digital if you can for, for referral programs. Right. So that's the referral program. Um, and then, um, as you grow, you'll start to get some sponsors in. And so the fourth lever that, that, that I liked, uh, talk about is, is direct sales, which is like, you're literally going out and like trying to get sponsors yourself. The sponsors is, is, is really interesting because once you start getting the revenue in, then you can actually utilize it with the fifth growth lever, uh, which, uh, is essentially, it's gonna be paid ads, right? Yeah. So you can do, you can do the, the sponsorships, use that money. To do paid ads and you're essentially kind of recycling this money and back and forth and you're, you're, you're, you got this nice Flywheel going of like newsletter growth. And that's exactly what I did because I'm, you know, I'm doing the, the paid ads along with the sponsorships, and essentially I'm just growing the newsletter. I'm, I'm compounding it and just like it's snowballing, right? And so. You want to continue doing the stuff that you're [00:26:00] doing. So like all these growth levers that I talked about, like you don't want to stop one because you are doing the other one. Like continue doing all those like Mm. I'm still doing the cross promo stuff in my newsletter, reaching out to other newsletter subscribers or newsletter operators. So like that's still going while I'm doing all this stuff. And that's how you get that like hockey puck. You know, hockey, uh, was it hockey stick? Growth curve. Hockey stick. Yeah. That's right. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. So that's, that's kind of, uh, the five growth levers that I, that, uh, I like to use for, for a newsletter. So, Dylan Redekop: because there's five Yeah. Did they start at different stages? Yeah. Um, I know you did mention like organic at the start, and you do kind of have to start getting revenue in before you do the fifth one, but is there any reason why you couldn't start doing them all right Yong-Soo Chung: away? You can. I, I think it's a, it's pretty. Like it's, it's overwhelming I would say if you try to do all of them. Mm-Hmm. At once and it won't be as effective. For example, like the referral program. Like you can't do a referral program if you have like 10 people on your newsletter. Right. Um, and so no, that will not work. I think there's like different [00:27:00] stages of growth or, or, or tactics for each growth stage. For me, I think that that's a natural progression is, you know, the one that I mentioned just now, um. But you could definitely do like paid ads early if you, if you have the money for it and you don't care, spending a little extra in the beginning to get really ramp up, definitely do that. 'cause it'll get you to sponsorships way faster. Right. Yeah. But I'd say 80, 90% of people listening to this will probably. Start with organic and then work themselves up to, um, you know, through these five growth levers, which makes sense. I mean, Dylan Redekop: it's the, the low hanging fruit and the, the free quote unquote free traffic just cost you your time to do those organic growth levers. So that does make sense. I noticed a post from you and we'll, we'll be wrapping up here. I think this is, this is a good way to wrap it up because, uh, you recently posted about your 2024, uh, newsletter predictions. And so what, what do you think is the most impactful or the biggest change that you predict we'll see in the newsletter space? I mean, even if you wanted to rattle off a few of the other [00:28:00] predictions, by all means, but, uh, I'd be curious what you think the, what's gonna impact the newsletter space the biggest in, in this upcoming year? Yong-Soo Chung: Yeah. I, I think that the, the newsletter space is evolving very quickly and it, it's because we have amazing ESPs now and it's almost like the newsletters are becoming. Discovery platforms now. Mm-Hmm. And what I mean by that is because of great tools like Spark Loop, essentially when you subscribe to one newsletter, you get recommended few others based on similar audiences. And so this mechanism has never really been available. You know, I'd say, what, two years ago? Two, two plus years ago. So, I mean, I think we're in kind of a golden era of newsletters where in my opinion you should, you should get on these, uh, platforms because. You can get a really high quality subscriber, honestly, like Spark Loop, the way that you guys like filter out bad quality subscribers, like that is brilliant. And I, I really think [00:29:00] that we're kind of in this like short window of time of newsletter growth where this discovery period of newsletters is, is is there. And I think that eventually it will get arbitraged out. That's just what I think. How do you mean? I think the cost will get much higher, for example. And so like getting a subscriber on Spark Loop, like a really high quality subscriber is gonna cost a lot more than it's costing now. Dylan Redekop: Sorry, just when you say high quality, you mean like, uh, somebody's gonna actually open an email, engage with it to some degree, right? Who's, who's a qualified. Okay. Yong-Soo Chung: Yeah. And then I also like to filter out for, for US based only, and this is actually one, one, uh, other small tip. For newsletter operators is that a lot of sponsorship folks wanna see US-based audience. And so Mm-Hmm. As one of my filters, I actually have, uh, it's gotta be US-based. And so like ninety-eight percent of my, my audience is, uh, US-based. Got it. Because I filter out everyone else. And so, yeah, I mean, I, I, I, I think that the ability to do that, just what I talked about is like really powerful and like, even with. [00:30:00] US only, which is the highest quality or the high, you know, most expensive subscriber. Like, it's still pretty, pretty good in terms of the, the price or the cost. Uh, and so I think that's really where this golden era, and I feel like it's only gonna, I don't know. I, I, I think that it's gonna close it's little like opportunity here. Hmm. The next thing I would look at is like, I think BDB newsletters, I'm really bullish on them. And, um, that's also why I'm trying to build first-class founders for business owners. Like the topics that I talk about on first-class founders aren't like extremely basic stuff. It's a little more advanced, right? And that's on purpose because I want that B2B audience. 'cause also, you gotta remember, B2B is not as easy to reach than, uh, B2C. So, for example, you run ads right on, on whatever meta or, or Twitter, like Yeah. You can't really, it's harder to target BDB audience than a BDC audience. And [00:31:00] so, mm-hmm. Sponsors are, are really, they want to get in front of BDB audiences and like, it's harder to do that through these, like, ad platforms. Yeah. So I think I'm, I'm pretty bullish on BDB stuff, so I want to build, continue to build my audience for B2B. And so, yeah, I mean, those are kind of the, the big ones that I, that I see. I think that, um, the newsletter will, I think we'll move away from like just a newsletter business. I think, we'll, we'll start to see more like newsletter will be like a part of a business. Mm-Hmm. But, um, I think we'll get away from the notion of like. You know, oh, this is a newsletter business Build the next morning, Brew. Yeah. I mean, even Morning Brew is moving is is, you know, they have all a lot of other channels now. I mean, they have a podcast. Yeah. They have like community like, so I think we're moving away from just newsletter-based businesses and it's gonna be more holistically fit into like, I. A larger thing and the newsletter just happens to be one of the distribution mechanisms. Yeah. And so I think we'll, we'll [00:32:00] continue to see that. And I think that the, the industry will evolve that way as it continues to mature. Yeah, I could Dylan Redekop: see that. And it, yeah, and it's interesting too, 'cause it kind of all starts with the newsletter, with that email address. Yes. That is so vitally important that that list, so you can actually reach your audience when you want to. Well, Yongsu, you've, uh, shared a. I found very, very interesting, um, insights here and I really appreciate you coming on the show. I think our listeners are really gonna get a lot out of it. Could you share with us where we can find you and, uh, first class Yong-Soo Chung: Founders? So, firstclassfounders.com slash newsletter is where you can sign up the newsletter, um, and then you can find me on X or LinkedIn at Yongsu Chung. That's Y-O-N-G-S-O-O. C-H-U-N-G. Awesome. Thank Dylan Redekop: you Yongsu. I really appreciate you coming on and uh, best of luck in 2024. We'll be watching. Yong-Soo Chung: Thanks Dylan. Appreciate it, man. Take care. Dylan Redekop: Thanks for listening to this episode of the Send and Grow [00:33:00] podcast. If you like what you heard, here are three quick ways that you can show your support. Number one, leave us a five star rating and review in the podcast app of your choice. Number two, email or DM me with some feedback with your questions or with suggestions for future episodes. And finally, number three, share your favorite quote from the episode on social media and tag both me and our guest. All of the links for that are available in the show notes and whatever option you choose. I am really grateful for your support. Thanks, and see you next week.