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301. What My Marriage Taught Me About Emotional Intelligence · Badass Confidence Coach | Your Personal Trainer for Your Mind

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Hey everyone, welcome back to the podcast.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_00: This morning we are talking about what emotional intelligence has taught us about our marriage and really what it's taught us about ourselves as individual people.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_00: This could be a good one.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_00: I'm going to talk a lot about in today's episode.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: I'm going to give you theory.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_00: I'm going to talk about the different modules that I've been trained in over the many years in my work with not just couples, but with individuals.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_00: But we're going to bring it into ourselves personally.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_00: So we're going to pull back the curtain a little bit and talk about ourselves even more today.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_01: Great.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_01: The wizard exposed.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_00: So all right.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I have to, I have to talk about something.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_00: I don't usually do this, but on the podcast with all that's happening in the world today, I mean, I think that this is an important episode today, talking about emotional intelligence and communication and really our psychologies as individuals and mental health.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, this is really about in so many ways mental health.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_00: How you and I work to have a emotionally and mentally healthy relationship, I think, with ourselves as individuals, but also with each other.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_00: And there's so much going on in the in the culture around mental health with what's just happened with Perez Hilton.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if you know about him, but it really sort of looked like he was having some sort of, I didn't watch the video, but looking like he was having some sort of self-harm.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_00: And then they're saying psychotic break on video.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's all over social media.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: And people that I do follow said, do not watch it.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_00: It's disturbing to watch.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_00: Do not watch it.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_00: He just really had sort of a breakdown.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_00: And then this whole Lindsey Clancy trial, which I did an episode on it back when it first happened in 2023.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_00: I had, and I you'd I have to find the episode.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_00: I had a father and daughter on who were from the Northeast who talked about their ex-I believe ex-wife and the daughter's mother about her postpartum psychosis after she had one of the kids.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I forget now if it was her, the the young woman who was on my podcast or a sibling.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_00: And it was because it was so disturbing at the time that it happened.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_00: And the trial is going on now.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I have been following it, and it's been there's so much to say about mental health and about that whole trial.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_00: And she so she murdered her three kids.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_00: And really about the mental the state of psychology and mental health help in this country, and the help she got or the help she didn't get, all the meds that she was on, how people, the professionals, didn't seem to be really talking to or communicating with one another, in my opinion, in what I saw and what I've seen.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_00: And it's really got me thinking about I'm glad we're talking about mental health even more, but man, people are suffering.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: People are suffering.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_00: So hopefully this episode today will be just a little blip on the radar of you working on your own mental and emotional health in your life.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_00: And maybe this will be the episode that I will get you to think, you know what?
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna reach out to Anna.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I'm I live in Illinois.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna reach out to her for therapy.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna start working with her, you know, or, you know, I'm in another state and I'm gonna finally start looking into getting some therapy for my for myself, or I'm gonna look into finally going to a couple of therapists because my marriage is not great.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_00: And it hasn't been for a while.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_00: And we've both been blowing it off.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_00: We both haven't been wanting to really see the writing on the wall of where this is going.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_00: And we know we're not happy.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_00: And you know what?
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_00: This is gonna be it.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna look into a therapist.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna start asking around for a couple of therapists and doing my research.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_00: So if that's what this episode does for you today, then I have done my job.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_00: I've done my due diligence and I paid it forward to all of you.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_01: You know what?
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_01: It feels like like we talk a lot about this.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_01: Just we, the world, talks a lot about the whole the the need for the assistance to mental health within all the communities.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of chat and then there's no answer, but like it still comes back to the person.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_01: The person that needs it has to make the move.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_01: You gotta make the move, but but you gotta do it.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_01: But what are the chances?
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_01: Like, like it's 50-50, maybe, right?
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_01: That the person's gonna actually jump like into getting assistance.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_00: But it's like especially for couples, because couples is much more vulnerable because you're with your spouse or your part life partner and it's hard to do.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you may be opening up a can of worms.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_00: And but here's the thing is it so what is it?
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_00: Is it the devil you know or the devil you don't know that you'd rather sit with?
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_00: And some people would say, Well, I'd rather sit with the devil I know.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_00: Well, how much longer are you gonna let that go on for?
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_00: You deserve peace, you deserve contentment, you deserve more happiness than you probably are living in your life right now.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_00: And so does your partner.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_00: And you deserve to you just deserve to have clarity.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, whether this marriage, this relationship can be improved.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_00: And think about what's on the other side.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_00: So you don't know what's on the other side.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_00: I can see what's on the other side.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_00: So much more peace in your life, yeah, just a general sense of satisfaction that's deep inside.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_00: Or you may decide or realize, and this can be very scary.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if this is it for me.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if this is for us anymore.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I mean, maybe this isn't going to survive this, right?
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_00: But but have courage, take courage and move forward and do it because where you're sitting right now, that kind of sucks too.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_00: I know that, and you know that it kind of sucks where you're sitting.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_00: If you're in this blah meh, unhappy marriage.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_01: You're kind of in no man's land, maybe, right?
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_01: You're kind of like, yeah.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, is part of the answer that this needs to be given or or we need to expose people at a younger age, like the importance of it.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_01: Like I think so.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_00: Is that like what is Well, I think we didn't talk about mental health.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_00: I we didn't talk about our vulnerabilities, we didn't talk about the issues that were really going on in marriages.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, maybe you talk about it a little bit with your girlfriends, but people didn't really, you know, and guys, I don't think talked about it much at all.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that, you know, we just it's not something that we really did.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_00: It's something that we kept private.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's something that we even dismiss and diminish within ourselves, or it's not that bad, or it's tolerable, I can do it, and I don't have the time.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_00: I think a lot of what I have heard over the years is how do I find a therapist?
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_00: It's so much work.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_00: And it is, it is work.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_00: I won't say it's not.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you have to start asking around, you have to ask people that you trust, you have to start looking online.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_00: You may have to go through more than one therapist.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_00: And yes, it is a pain in the butt to get an appointment, especially with COVID and post-COVID, it's hard to find therapists.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, you think to yourself, because I've thought this, I don't want to waste my time making the appointment, driving to the office, or getting on Zoom, and there goes 50 minutes of my life if I don't really care for the person, you know?
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, I understand that.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_00: And you, and you may have to go and make another phone call, send another email and go to another appointment.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_00: Because a first first first person didn't feel like a fit for you.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_00: So yes, it takes time.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_00: I say give yourself a month, give yourself six weeks of sending emails and making phone calls and seeing who reaches back out to you.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_00: And if you are a professional in my field, I'm telling you, call these people back.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_00: Email these people back, stop blowing people off.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_00: It drives me crazy.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_00: Is that a thing?
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it is.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_00: Because people, because some practices and there, some, some, not all, some, are very busy and they just don't return phone calls.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_00: Please return these phone calls, these people who are reaching out to you if you're in my profession.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_00: But there are a lot of practices and a lot of therapists who are have availability right now.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_00: I know practices that are really suffering because they don't have enough clients.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_00: So there are people, it's 20 midway through 2026 right now.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_00: There are lots of therapists available.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so make that effort.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, but know that yes, I understand it's gonna be a pain.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_00: The first person may not be the best fit for you and your partner or for just you.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_00: But do it anyway, do it anyway.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_00: You deserve it.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_00: This is like my early morning coffee voice because we haven't, it's early in the morning and I've got a throaty voice.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_00: So I have been doing this now, as many of you know, if you've been listening to the podcast for any amount of time, I've been a therapist for 30 years.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, I'm dating myself.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_00: I'm and I'm old.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I have spent thousands of hours talking to people about their relationships, about their marriages, about their divorces, about communication, resentment, intimacy, conflict.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I do this every single week, right?
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_00: And you would think that that would make me emotionally intelligent in my own marriage with you, that I would be, you know, next level when it came to emotional intelligence and that we'd have this amazing marriage because I'm just all those things, you know.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_00: I'm I'm the I sort of bring my profession into my marriage.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_00: Well, yeah, no, that's not true.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: It does not happen that way.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_01: That's fair.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_00: It's it doesn't, you know, because I'm a human and this is my personal life, and I'm not wearing my work hat when I'm in my relationship with you.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_00: Do I have knowledge?
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_00: And it comes up in our relationship, sure.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_00: But I am a person, I'm a woman, I'm a girl, and I get mad and I get up all the things with you.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_00: You know, knowing all this stuff professionally and actually practicing it when you have just completely pissed me off are two completely different things.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_01: Nice.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, our marriage or marriage in general has really taught me, you know, just as much about emotional intelligence as probably anything I've really studied because it's in our marriage that I've had to put it into practice, and that's where I've learned the lessons for myself.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think that for anybody in your field that's has a family, like like are there certain, and maybe it's not even fair, but but are there certain expectations of the rest of the family on you?
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_01: Like, because this is your world, you should know better.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_01: You should, right?
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_01: No, I don't really think I do that with the kids.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, well, you can't you're not doing anything.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_01: Are they do I'm saying are the those expectations of you are they there?
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, towards them?
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, no, no.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_00: They're children and they were teenagers, and no.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I think half of I think I know that 85 to 90 percent of the time they just rolled their eyes at me or blew me off.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_00: Because I was like, they're like, whatever, mom.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I think they listen a little bit more now.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_00: I received a great compliment about a couple of months ago when one of the kids said to me, had a really difficult conversation with someone in their life.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_00: They just had a difficult conversation.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_00: They said to me, you know, mom, thanks for employed the skills that you taught me.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_00: And you really did teach me about emotional intelligence.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I remembered things in all those family chit chats we talked about on the podcast, all those chit chats that we had to begrudgingly go to and sit in on Sundays when we were little, and and all the conversations that I've heard you have with me and and my siblings and Tim over the years, I was able to employ those and I was able to, you know, know about boundaries and what's about you, what's about me, and and knowing what to take on and not to take on.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_00: And she said, that's completely because of what we watched you do in our house and the emotional intelligence that you have taught us.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I was and I was like grinning to myself.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, thank you, it was a great compliment.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_00: But I was grinning because I thought, you know what, by osmosis, maybe some of it has rubbed off over the years.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_00: You know, so it's a great compliment.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, for sure.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_00: You know, but here's the thing about emotional intelligence.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_00: Emotional intelligence, let's get this straight from the very beginning.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_00: It's not about being calm all the time, right?
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's about recognizing what's inside of you, what's coming up for you, what's going on with you in the moment.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_00: It's about, so it's it's about recognizing what's happening inside of you, about understanding what's happening between you, you and the person in your life that you're having it with, and not allowing every emotion to run the relationship.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_00: So it's there's three parts to this that's emotional intelligence.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, today for this episode, and we we could, I could certainly I could turn this into like a one-day workshop for people.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_00: There's so much to be said about this, but for this episode today, I'm gonna give you five things that you know marriage has taught me about emotional intelligence.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, and chime in and what's taught you as well.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_00: One thing I wanted to address because it came up when I was when I was doing my research on this, and one of the kids I was telling I was doing this episode said something to me.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_00: I've had it's so weird interesting because last week a client said something to me, and then you sort of alluded to it earlier.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_00: My daughter and one of my clients said made a comment last week in a session about like so many therapists are nuts.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_00: So many therapists and psychiatrists are kind of nuts.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_00: And she was she made a comment to me about like she has psychological professionals in her in her family too.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_00: And she's like, you know, so many of these people that like live the nuttiest lives, like it's hard, you know, you go to see somebody for couples therapy and you find out that they're divorced.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like they lose credibility, or you find out that, you know, maybe you're in a small community and you find out that that therapist has like the craziest family, or that, you know, they are an alcoholic, you know, or you know, you just find these things out.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_00: Or, you know, and it's like, or I noticed they don't win a wedding ring, and that doesn't always mean they're married or divorced.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I don't always wear my wedding rings because I take them off after a workout and I forget to put them back on.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_00: So you can't make judgments about that.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I've always heard this.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't mean that they can't be a good therapist.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, there is something to that.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_00: I always go, I don't know.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you can have a couple of therapists, yeah, who is divorced, but they're fantastic couples therapists.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe they they have the knowledge, they have the book knowledge, maybe they've learned a lot through their life experience about, you know, marriage because of the divorce that they went through.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, there was a period of time where I was divorced and not married to you, and I was still a good, I'd say a really good couples therapist back when that was the bulk of what I was doing.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_00: I wasn't wearing a wedding band.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think anybody judged me, any of my my clients at the time.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_00: They didn't know, I didn't offer that information.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe they could have figured it out.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I I don't think that they can when they came in, I think they were in so much pain.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think they cared if I was married or they're I was divorced.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_00: They just wanted me to help them.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_00: But I think that my divorce taught me so much more about marriage.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_00: I think it gave me compassion and empathy for my clients.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_00: It also taught me a lot about marriage.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_00: And it taught me a lot about what I wasn't doing right and what I didn't do right and where I went wrong.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_00: So, and I think that, you know, now if someone's, I don't know if you're gonna know this, maybe if you're in a real small town, but you know, I think you have to spend your time working on yourself rather than thinking about like pointing your finger across the room or across the camera screen to what's, you know, if someone's an alcoholic if yeah, if a therapist looks like they're under the influence of alcohol or drugs in a session, well, that's a different story, but I I haven't heard that.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_00: I've just heard I heard that they're an alcoholic.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_00: Well, okay.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, what are you getting from that relationship with that person?
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, what are you getting?
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_00: And some people that might be a deal breaker, like, nope, can't work with them.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I get that, and I I respect that too.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_00: I think that that's rarely the case.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_00: I wanted to say that though.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_01: And isn't that kind of I mean, that's a common thread in in a lot of coaches, right?
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_01: You look at a lot of coaches, pick pick anything, coaches or therapists, or both?
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_01: Both.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I I mean, you look at a coach and you're like, take a football coach, right?
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_01: You look at a football coach and you look at them physically, you're like, oh my gosh, like, does this has this person ever played football?
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_01: Or look at a back.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_00: I've said that.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_00: I've said that.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_00: I've said, have they ever played football?
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_00: Have they ever played college ball or uh in the NFL?
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and half the time you're like, no, I don't think so.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_00: And they're fantastic coaches.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_01: Well, but that's the point, though, is that like you don't have to be an expert at the actual thing you're coaching.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_01: You don't have to be.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_01: You have to be an expert about the communication part of it, yes.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_01: But you don't have to actually be good at very good or a master of this whatever it is, you know.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_01: And the same with therapy.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_01: Like if you're a good communicator and you've got a lot of knowledge in your head, you maybe you don't there's so many things I haven't experienced.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, yeah, I haven't had a premature child, I haven't had a child with disabilities, I haven't been divorced twice, I haven't had the trauma that my clients have experienced, and I'm still a really good trauma therapist.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I I can there's so many things.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_00: I haven't retired, I haven't, you know, left one career and completely pivoted into another career, and I'm a really good coach of those individuals.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I have not been a professional athlete and I'm a high performance coach.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_00: I use sports psychology.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_00: No, I have been a competitive triathlete athlete for a lot of my life, but I haven't experienced all the things that the people that I have coached, the elites and the the former pros that I have coached.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I I'm not at their level, but I know what it is that they need.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_00: I know what they need, and I'm not a coach.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_01: And that's why they're with you.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, right?
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_01: They're not with you because of your experience as that, whatever that was, as that in that profession or whatever it is.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I and they and they I haven't played in the NFL.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a female and I'm I'm not a football player.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I've had my football player clients look at me like, how do you know that?
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_00: You just got inside my head.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it's because of the work I've studied, but it's also anecdotal.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's also experience and evidence from working with former clients over the years.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's also, I have been there as an athlete.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_00: I do know what it's like mentally to be, I know what it's like to be in their shoes mentally when it comes to mental performance and anxiety and psychology.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_00: But I haven't been on a football field.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_00: No, I've never done that.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_00: I've never been tackled.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_00: All that to say, you can still be a really good therapist and work with people and not have all these things happen to you personally in your life.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_00: So let's get into it.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_00: What my marriage or our marriage has taught me and Chime and Tim taught you about emotional intelligence over the years.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_00: One number one, I think it's important to remember that your feelings are real, but they don't need to be and they may not be your full story.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_00: So let's say something happens between us, something happens, something happens with you and your partner, and your partner does not respond the way that you wanted them to.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_00: They don't respond the way you want them to.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_00: So maybe they have a tone in their voice, they they forgot something, you're completely annoyed by it, upset.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_00: They're distracted, they're on their phone, they're doing something else.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_00: And without within about three seconds, your brain has already started to create a story.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_00: He doesn't care.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_00: She doesn't, she doesn't care.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_00: You know, she doesn't respect me.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_00: Here we go again.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_00: Here we go again, right?
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_00: The emotion is totally real.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_00: How you're feeling, the emotion is real, but your explanation for the emotion may not be.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_00: You're right.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_00: That's important.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, right.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, one of the most useful questions that I've learned to ask myself, and then I've asked clients to ask themselves is what do I actually know about the situation and what am I adding to it?
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_00: It's really important.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, this is kind of a weekly question for for everybody that I work with.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_00: What do I actually know?
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm I'm asking you to look for the evidence.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_00: And what do you what are you adding to the story?
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_00: What have you added to the situation?
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_00: Huge difference because it's the difference between I feel unimportant right now, I feel unimportant right now versus you don't think I'm important.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_00: Really, really big there.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_00: Really a big difference, too.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_01: Massive difference.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_00: So one is my experience.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_00: And okay, that's valid.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_00: That's legit.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_00: One is my experience.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_00: I may, this is my uh what I'm feeling.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_00: The other is mind reading.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_00: It's just actually a thought distortion.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_00: You are mind reading.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_00: You don't think I'm important because you I was saying this, making this comment to you, telling you about something happened today, and you didn't get looked up from your phone.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_00: You don't think that I'm important, you don't think the situation is important.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_00: You kind of are.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_00: You're mind reading because you're putting on the other person what you think they're thinking, right?
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_00: So, and this is where.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm gonna bring in a couple of different modules today in this episode because I think I would be remiss if I didn't to really, I just think it's important to do.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_00: This is internal family systems, which I love.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_00: This is Richard Schwartz.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_00: So this is where IFS, we call it, has been really useful for me in my personal life and really in my work with my clients.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_00: So Richard Schwartz, he talks, this is his model.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_00: He talks about the different, there's different parts of us.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_00: We have different parts inside of us.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_00: This is really goes sort sort of back to not sort of, it goes back to the inner child work that I do with my clients, which I thought, you know, years and years ago sounded really hokey.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, okay, your inner child.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_00: Well, there's a lot to it.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot to it.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I'll bet you all of you have those different parts of you, your inner child that is.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Is up and running at different times and at different places in your life.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, let's take this situation.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_00: So part of me, if I say something to you and you just kind of ignore me, you're looking down at your phone, part of me feel is annoyed with you because I'm feeling rejected.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_00: You know, a part might a part of me, because we have different parts inside of us, a part of me gets offensive, a part of me, you know, sort of wants to shut down with you.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_00: You know, these are the different parts of me, which is internal family systems.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_00: Instead of saying, like, I am so mad at you right now, I'm and I'm furious.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes it's useful useful to say a part of me is really mad right now.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_00: There's a part of me that's really, really pissed off.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_00: That tiny distinction, when I say that to myself, it does create some space.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_00: So what I'm what I'm doing is I'm creating space.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's so so now what it allows me to do is to ask, okay, why did why did this hit me so hard?
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_00: Like, why am I so annoyed with him right now?
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_00: What part is this protecting?
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_00: What's what's this what's this part protecting inside of me?
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_00: There's a part that needs protected that gets brought out because maybe underneath the anger that I feel towards you, because you're not looking up and I said something to you was important to me about my day or a thought I had, and you're still on your freaking phone, a part of me is hurt.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_00: I'm hurt, or maybe there's some fear there, feeling because I'm feared, I'm feeling unimportant.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_00: So this is doing the deep dive, this is the deeper stuff, this is so, so important, right?
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe there's a part of me that's feeling kind of rejected.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_00: You knowing that about yourself is emotional intelligence.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_00: You being able to go underneath and go, wow, why am I so mad at him right now?
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because I want to be heard, I want to be listened to.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_00: Because you've heard, and this is actually true for me.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_00: This is legit.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_00: This is an issue that I have had from my childhood.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_00: It's still a part of me.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_00: A part of me has not, and at times, not so much today, but it is still there.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_00: There's a part of me that still doesn't feel listened to, that still still doesn't feel heard.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_00: 90% of it is gone, but there is a part of it because I've done so much work on this, is parts where the memory's there, and a part of me feels not listened to and not validated.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_00: That goes back to being in a large family and being one of the air quote three little girls that I didn't feel heard or seen or listened to.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_00: And it rarely, rarely happens, even with my my adult siblings, like it doesn't happen.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_00: Every now and then it will come up.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_00: It will come up with you, it will come up with one of my siblings, and I get very defensive and I feel like I'm nine years old digging my heels and I get really mad.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_00: That is really important that I understand it.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_00: Because in a way, it's not about you, Tim.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_00: It's about me with me.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_00: So that's really important because that comes up in relationships all the time.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_00: So it's important for all of you to get curious about it, like I am.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what's that about for me?
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_00: Get curious about it before it drives the car.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_00: This is the work that I've done on my individual therapy, my individual work, right?
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_00: And here's your power move on this one.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_00: When you're at when you're when your action or your, I'm saying your reaction, your emotion feels sort of bigger than the situation.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_00: Like I really am reactive to you being on your phone.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like maybe it maybe it would be appropriate if it was like the 10th time and you were doing it for me.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_00: Usually it's like the first or second time, and I get really mad at you.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_00: It would behooves me to look at myself, look inside yourself, Anna.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_00: What is going on for you?
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_00: That's the power move.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_00: So the question is, what part of me just got activated?
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_00: Because I just got really activated.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_00: And what is it trying to yeah, yeah, and what is it trying to protect?
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_00: What what that reaction, what is what am I trying to protect inside of myself?
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there is something there.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_00: It's usually that little girl, it's usually the the inner child that's still trying to protect, and that's okay.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_00: Just just just knowing it is so, so you're like 50 yards down the field already.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's that in and of itself is therapeutic.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I think so.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_01: Knowing it's one thing.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_01: I think another part of this power move is like sharing that, right?
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_01: Sharing that with your person, like get it.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_01: I'm telling you.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_01: Like, like, like just in general, you don't have to share it like every time.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_01: Like, oh, don't forget, this is this is an example of this again, right?
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_01: That I think it's just sharing it once, and and your person, in this case, me or you know, our one of our kids, whatever, knows that that's in your head.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_01: I think that we then see that situation differently, right?
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_01: Like we're in that situation, we understand your reaction differently.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, right.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_01: Like because we've talked about it.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_01: If you never said that stuff out loud and you had those reactions, we'd be all of us would be like, okay, what's up with that?
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_00: And that's important.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_00: And it you it's a really good point to what has helped, I think, our marriage grow in an emotional intelligence is that I share that with you.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_00: And then we talk about it.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_00: Because I I I could easily do it because I'm from the field of psychology.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_00: You're not from the field, and also, you know, I have an interest and a curiosity about psychology.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think you really have had a whole huge interest or curiosity about psychology.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_00: I think being married to me has increased your knowledge and your curiosity, and now you are more interested, but you didn't come from the field, and I don't think you came with a lot of curiosity, right?
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_00: But it's really helped our marriage.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, for sure.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_00: Now we both you you like you're like, yeah, I'm with you.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like riding that wave with you.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_00: I I'm I'm I'm I'm vibing.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_00: I get it.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_00: I know what you're saying.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and we usually will talk about it.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, no, for sure.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_00: And there's usually not a solution, it's just we're talking about like that.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_00: And you've heard this before, yeah, it feels not seen or listened to.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but it's important because I and you tell me what you think.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_00: I think you're like, Got it, Anna.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_00: File that away for next time.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_00: I think you do.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_00: I think you've remember it, you file it away.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, thousands.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_00: For next time I get annoyed with you about something.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, for sure.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_01: For sure.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_00: Because you'll say to me, like, okay, what's you know, what's really going on here?
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_00: You'll you'll be like, okay, this is because I know that you know, like, this is not fully about this situation right now because she is so reactive.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_00: And so you will say, like, okay, what's sometimes it'll be just, or you'll come up and you'll give me a hug, and you'll be like, What's really going on right now?
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I don't want to talk about it.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_00: I hate swallowing my pride.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_00: Like, fine, this is what it is.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I think the other thing for me, so just sticking on the was this point one or whatever, but like the whole feelings thing, like it took me a minute and to find minute, minutes, probably actually more like years, but like, but it took a while to understand the fact that feelings, feelings, and facts are different.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_01: And you right, you have your feelings, you're very right to your feelings this whole time.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I and I would say to you, okay, you can once I started to kind of get into it, it's like, okay, well, you can feel you whatever you want to feel, that doesn't make you right, like right.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_01: Like, there's there's like how you feel about something, and then there's the facts, and it's like being thing you say to me.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_01: I guess but I don't say it anymore.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_01: I I used to say that you do say it every time.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you but it's not you're not wrong though.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_01: Hang on, hang on, you're not wrong, right?
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_01: So, but but being able to separate the fact that there's feelings about something, right, and then there's the facts, and those, and they don't have to line up, they don't, yeah, and you're pretty good because you don't just you don't diminish my feelings.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_00: You're just like, those are your feelings, that's how I find you feel usually when we're like going head to head about something we're disagreeing on, and you're just like feelings, you know, you like you say, Anna, feeling you say, like you say, you know, you can have your feelings, but feelings aren't facts.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_01: That's why I asked that question at the beginning of the episode.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_01: Because, like, is that fair?
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_01: Is that fair that I have certain expectations of you because of the field you're in?
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_01: I I don't think so.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think it's fair at all.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_01: But I but I wonder if that's common in your in your world.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, in my um yeah, I don't know.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_00: That's actually a good question.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not really that's like a meta meta question.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_00: I've actually never thought about that.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_00: What my colleagues would say, what my therapy and even my coaching colleagues would say about this.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_00: In their relationships with their husbands and wives and their life partners.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_00: You sort of have adopted so much psychology because of being married to me.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_00: You will say it to me.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you said it recently.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_00: You're like, feelings are valid, your feelings are valid, your feelings are your feelings, and they're valid, but it doesn't mean that you're right about this or something.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't like hearing it, it makes me mad because of my, I think my pride gets going and our ego.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_00: We have egos, right?
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_00: Or my ego gets going, and I have to swallow my pride and like kind of eat my ego because deep down inside I know you're right, it makes me mad, or that you have a good point to make, you know.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_00: And that's that's also maturity, that's also growing up, yeah, and be able to eat, you know, humble pie, so to speak, or like, you know, just say, okay, fine.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's very hard for people to not be right.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_00: It's very hard for people to say, that's fair, you make a good point.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_00: There's some, there are some people, and this is the concerns me about relationships, who they won't make themselves that feels too vulnerable, that feels too exposing to say, you have a good point and I'm wrong.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_00: There are a lot of people who don't want to be wrong.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_00: Even when they know they're wrong, they just wanna admit it.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_01: But you know what?
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_01: That's such a great, if you can figure that out, to take that into the world, like into your world, not you, Anna, but like into the the world that you go into every day, your your place of business, your circle, whatever that is, and having that mindset where you're like, okay, I can watch this person have some very strong feelings about something.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I also, and I don't have to say this out loud ever, but like I can I know they have strong feelings about this.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_01: I know they're actually wrong, right?
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_01: Like, like their their their take on it is not right because it's not factual and there's proof and there's da da da.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_01: And it's okay because their feelings are separate.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they don't even know that, right?
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_01: They don't even know too much.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes they just want to feel heard and see.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_00: Like, okay, okay, I hear that.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_00: I hear you.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_01: But being able to take that out there, like in my in from my chair, you know, I in anybody's chair, being able to take that out there into the world and being able to be good with it and see it and never speak about it is like that's a massive bonus.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_00: Because so many people in their lives, in their personal lives, they bring that into work and they don't feel seen and they would say, I've rarely ever heard.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_00: And so for you to take a minute and you go, okay, yeah.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_01: Because then if because if I didn't do it that way, or or the person in my seat didn't do it that way and reacted to the feelings that were being spewed every which way, it just gets worse.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_01: And it and then explodes, and it's like, oof, it just becomes ugly, you know?
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_01: It's a good, I think that's a good takeaway.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_01: I really do.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_00: All right, number two, emotional intelligence in relationships.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_00: Most arguments are not really about what you're arguing about.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_00: This is a big one.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_00: You know, this is where, and this is Sue Johnson.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna pull her work in.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_00: Sue Johnson is creator of emotionally focused therapy, which I also love.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_00: So this is where Sue Johnson's work comes in really nicely.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_00: So emotionally focused therapy is called EFT, that's what we call it.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_00: It's based heavily in attachment theory.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_00: So if you are somebody who you're attracted to, interested in, you've read books about attachment therapy, you would like Sue Johnson's work on EFT.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_00: So one of Sue Johnson's central ideas is that underneath many relationships, when there are conflicts, there's a much more basic question to be asked.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_00: Are you there for me?
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_00: Are you there for me?
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_00: Can I reach you?
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_00: Do I matter to you?
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_00: So we this is fundamental inside of us, is what she says.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you can be in a fight, we can be mad at each other, but can I count on you?
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_00: That's so that's not usually what we say out loud, right?
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_00: We're fighting, we're fighting, we're arguing, we're debating, we're bickering with each other.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_00: We're not saying these true thoughts out loud to each other.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_00: So we're arguing about, you know, let's say like who forgot to call the babysitter or who forgot to call to make the appointment to take the car in, you know, who didn't initiate sex, you know, who were never initiate sex, who, who isn't helping, you know, helping out enough around the house, you know, who's always on their phone?
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's probably a big debate and argument, or just a sigh and eye roll and annoyance that goes on with the couples a lot today, right?
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_00: Money, kids, the dishes, everything I just said, right?
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_00: But underneath it, it really might be like you said to me, what's really going on here?
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_00: This is Sue Johnson's work.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_00: What's really going on?
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_00: Is do I matter to you?
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_00: Do I matter?
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_00: Does this marriage matter?
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_00: Does this relationship matter to you?
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_00: Because what happens is we get caught in these patterns.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_00: Couples get caught in patterns, right?
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_00: One criticizes, the other withdraws.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_00: The withdrawal makes the person sort of more anxious, and then they pursue harder, right?
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_00: So this is the anxiously attached individual.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_00: That makes the other person withdraw even more because you're coming at me more.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_00: You're anxious, you're coming at me because I maybe have some issues with abandonment and I don't want you to go away.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_00: But the other person's like, uh, it's too much.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_00: They back up, and maybe you've said some nasty things to them, so they're gonna they're gonna withdraw from you, right?
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_00: You say nasty things because you're trying to actually get closer to them, and you don't want them to step away from you, but that's exactly what they're doing, right?
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_00: So now both people are creating exactly what they don't want to happen.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_00: Do you see the pattern here?
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_00: They don't want it to happen, the person's going after them even more, the person's withdrawing even more.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_00: They're both looking for connection and they more of a secure attachment to one another, right?
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_00: So, one of my favorite concepts from emotionally focused therapy is the cycle is the enemy, not your partner.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_00: It's the cycle that I just sort of very quickly described.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_00: That's the enemy.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_00: It's not each other, right?
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_00: That is such a different way to look at conflict.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_00: It's looking at what's really going on here.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_00: Instead of you're the problem, Tim, you're the problem, or I'm the problem, Anna.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's okay.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_00: We're doing this thing again that we do.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_00: And you and I do it.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_00: We've got a pattern.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_00: We have a pattern.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_00: We have this cycle that we get into.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_00: We get sometimes into really big fights or really big disagreements with each other.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_00: We tend to pull away from one another.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_00: We both do it.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_00: So we are the we, I don't go towards you, you go towards me.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_00: We both withdraw.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like you'll go in your corner and I go in my corner.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_00: That's a pattern that we need to look at.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_00: Versus so much of what we say to each other.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's EFT.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_00: EFT is a great therapy.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_00: I talk about Goblin a lot, and I will talk about it in today's episode as well.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_00: But I and I'll talk about EFT as much, and it's a great, great therapy.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_00: It's something to look into if you're looking for couples' therapy.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_00: I like Sue Johnson's work a lot.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_00: So it's it's what's really like that when you say to me, what's really going on here, that's what you're doing.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what is the pattern?
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_00: What do we, what's really going on here with us right now?
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_01: And and trying to, I mean, I don't want to assume this, but I mean, trying to, you're not gonna fix it, right?
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_01: Like I don't think you, I don't think it's just gonna, it's gonna just magically forever go away.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_01: It's gonna come back, but maybe, maybe the angle is so then what to do about it so you can get out of that.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_01: Think of it as like a whirlpool.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_01: You're gonna get in that whirlpool is always there.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_01: You're gonna get yourself in there, but how can you more efficiently and maybe a little quicker get out?
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, right.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe that's the thing to focus on.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_00: And here's your power move.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_00: The next time you have the argument that you've had been having with each other for the 47th time, stop talking about the topic for a minute and ask yourself, okay, what's the pattern here?
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_00: Is there a pattern here?
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_00: What is it?
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_00: What do I do?
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_00: And then what is what do they do next?
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_00: What do I do in response to that?
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, name that cycle, name it for each other.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, name it for yourself and bring it up to them.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_01: What I was gonna say, are you saying this out loud or are you is this in some of the things?
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_01: You're thinking this to yourself.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what is okay on here?
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_00: Or you can say it out loud, like, okay, I'm noticing a pattern here.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, Susie, hey Joe, do you notice we're doing this?
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_00: We do this all the time.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_00: There's our pattern.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_00: You I do this, and then you do this next, and then I do this.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_00: So you're taking responsibility.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_00: You're you're making an observation about your pattern.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, look, let there's a cycle we're in.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_00: Like I just named ours.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_00: Like we both go into like shutdown.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_00: We go to a corner.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_01: So, what's the research on that?
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_01: Like, if if somebody actually tries that, right?
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_01: D is there success?
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_00: Well, we're yeah, because we're starting with awareness.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_00: We're just right now, we're still in the awareness phase.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_00: We're just starting with awareness.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_00: The first two points of today's episode are really about about developing awareness.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_01: No, I'm just in in I don't know what the research is on it.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just curious.
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_01: Like, like, like I'm sure this has been suggested to people, like, hey, give this a go.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I've worked with clients on this many, many times.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm just wondering, did it work?
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it does.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_00: It's helpful.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's illuminating.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_01: Interesting.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_00: I you have to slow down.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_00: You have to slow down enough.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_00: And this is what Gottman talks about.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_00: You got to slow down in the argument if you can.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_00: Some couples can't do it in the beginning, and that's okay.
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_00: You'll you can get there over time.
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_00: You stick with the therapy.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_00: You can do it on your own.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_00: Let's say you like you and I go into our own corners, we're mad at each other, we get we get shut down, we withdraw from one another.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_00: Then take that time to look at what's the pattern here.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_00: Once you you gotta take your emotions out of it.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_00: Some people need to simmer down.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_00: I know, you need to simmer down.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_01: That's a tough ask because you're asking somebody to but not just slow down.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_00: That's why sometimes we take a hours and hours break from one another.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_00: Go and think about the pattern.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but it go and think about the go take a step further.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_00: It requires some work.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_01: It does, but and not but if I if I let's say it's you and me, and and then we realize that that we're into this pattern right now, right?
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_01: And normally the pattern would just even it would continue, and then the cycle would go on, and then tomorrow's another day, and then you know I mean it's like it just like we would have another pattern like this.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_00: Well, first we start with vulnerability.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_00: Let's say we come back, we get a huge fight.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_00: We had a huge fight not long ago about I forget what it's even about.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_00: We were really mad at each, oh, something around the kids, something happened, yeah.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_00: And we we it was a major miscommunication between us, and we were really mad at each other, and then realizing we you didn't speak to me, you didn't talk, you didn't push the issue.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm gonna say that because I'm like, why didn't you tell me this two days ago?
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_00: I wouldn't still be this mad.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't know.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you shut down, you totally shut down, and I was like, that's something in our marriage that we still have to work on.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_00: You're you're you struggle with communicating when you get really fluttered emotionally.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_00: Is that fair to say?
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_00: So you're still working on I'm still working on my stuff, that's for sure.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_00: And you're that's something I can just say because I remember this.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_00: You're working on your communication with around speaking up sooner, so that our fight didn't go on that long.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_00: So we talked, we talked it through, and we really talked it through.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_00: It was fine.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_00: But then maybe when the emotions come down later, it's like, here's our pattern.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_00: So maybe that would be helpful for all of you.
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_00: This is the pattern, this is what we do.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_00: So the fight's past, you've resolved it, you have closure, and then later think about we fight this way, we do this.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we go into this, like I just said, but we go into this withdrawal.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_00: We both like have to like go into our corners of the boxing ring and hang out there for a while before we can come back together when we get in these really big fights, or we completely just miss each other, we completely just don't agree, or we don't see it the same, or something has happened that's very emotional.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_00: Then okay, work through that, then look at the pattern later.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I think that's a strategy.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_01: I it's a strategy.
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_01: I think that it's it's I mean, it's like anything else.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_00: Because you're you're bringing up a good point.
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_00: Not everybody can do it in the moment.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_01: Well, but to do it later, but but would it be more beneficial to do it in the moment?
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but sometimes we're too flattered emotionally to what you said.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_01: But you'd only have to do it once in the moment, and maybe you change the course of history.
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_00: That's why this is practice, that's why this is work.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you have to keep working at it.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_00: So maybe a couple be like, yeah, no, we would never, we could never do that.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_00: We're so mad at each other.
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_00: All right, so work on that fight, that argument, that disagreement.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_00: There's skills I'm gonna teach you for this right now.
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_00: Then later, when the emotion is gone, you've received closure, you're past that.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, have a conversation, go out to dinner.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, this is neutral.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_00: You're you're not full, you know, it's not emotional.
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_00: Go out to dinner, go sit in the back, go have a drink, and say, This is you know, do you see the patterns here?
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_00: We have this pattern of how we fight.
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah, yeah, I do see it.
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_00: Because I do this, and yeah, you do this.
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, don't do you, you, you, you, you.
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's not just the other person.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_00: Don't do that.
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_01: That's the risk, right?
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's a risk.
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_01: So be fair in the way you do this.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_01: The Monday morning quarterback.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I know.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_00: And it's personal responsibility about being in a relationship with someone, it's personal responsibility.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_00: Take ownership, take accountability for your part.
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_00: If you're mature, emotionally mature enough to do that, then you can really have this conversation and have a good one.
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_01: I think, I think that's I think that's a great idea.
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's even better if you could like come to a point where you could like in real time pause everything and be like, hey, do you see what's going on right now?
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_01: Literally, right now.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_01: And both parties could be like, pause and talk it through.
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_01: And that's why we got this is yeah, and then like a light bulb comes on, you're like, okay, we just figure this out.
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_00: And that is why many people need to be in couples therapy because they cannot do it in the beginning on their own.
• 43:59
  SPEAKER_00: So you just That's really hard.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_00: That's what I used to help couples do.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_00: As they got to know me and they had psychological safety with me, those are the issues that they would bring in.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_00: They'd bring in those fights.
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what therapists do.
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_00: We help you.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_00: We are the third person objective, you know, outsider listening.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_00: And we're and now we're joined up with you.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_00: We're like, okay.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_00: And we help go through the strategy.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_00: What could have been done different?
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_00: What will you do different next time?
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_00: It it's great coaching.
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_00: It's really great coaching for couples.
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_00: You all, before we go on, I want to say this is, and I forgot to say in the beginning of the episode, this is our 300th episode.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_00: This is episode 300.
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yay!
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_01: So shoot, I was I was gonna like dress up for it, confetti, the whole sit.
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_00: This is our 300th episode.
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_00: We have been recording.
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_00: I started recording this episode in 2019 before COVID, and we started going live in 2020, January of 2020.
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_00: We've been doing this for six and a half years.
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_00: So here's my ask as a give back, if you're listening to this episode or this podcast and you get anything out of it, please write a review.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_00: It makes all the difference in the world.
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_00: Go to Spotify, go to wherever you listen to podcasts, and you know, give us five stars and write a review.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_00: I'll write it makes all the difference in the world.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_00: I'm trying to make it up the rankings from one and a half percent to the one percent range globally of all podcasts.
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so that's all podcasts, not just, you know, coaching or therapy or mental health podcasts, all podcasts.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_00: We're one and a half percent right now.
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_00: I want to get into one one percent, and that's listener, and that's downloads.
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_00: That's downloads.
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_00: So please, please, please download it.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_00: It makes a huge difference.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_00: So thank you, thank you, thank you.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_00: All right, and as always, if you want to work with me, you know how to reach me.
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_00: Hello at anamarcaline.com.
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_00: If you're looking for therapy, that's in the state of Illinois.
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_00: Coaching is all over the world.
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_00: All right, number three, what our marriage has really taught me, has helped me increase my emotional intelligence personally in my life is that being right is highly overrated.
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_00: So being right is way, way, way overrated.
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_00: I have had to work on this, and I think I've really come to a nice place in my life where just in my life in general with people, and that is my marriage with you, my relationship with you.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_00: It's also my individual work in my spiritual life in meditation, that being right is something I don't really not as focused on that anymore.
• 46:25
  SPEAKER_00: So do I like being right?
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_00: Of course.
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I do I do like it, and sometimes I like, you know, I really am right.
• 46:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I and I like that.
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_00: But that's what also can make this difficult for a lot of people.
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_00: You know, marriage, what is my marriage with you, Tim?
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_00: It's taught me that, you know, you can win an argument, you can win an argument and still really lose.
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, Anna, you won that argument, and I but I'm I'm still in a way losing.
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_00: I can prove prove something to you, right?
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_00: I can I can pull up the text, like, oh, I got the receipts on that and I'm right.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_00: And you're like, okay, fine, I did say that.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_00: I did do that.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_00: And so I win and you lose, but really, where does that get us?
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you can establish, you know, I could establish beyond all reasonable doubts that, you know, your recollection is wrong and that mine is right, right?
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yay, congratulations to me.
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_00: Congratulations, Anna.
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_00: You know, now what?
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, now what?
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, so you know, what have I learned over the years to ask myself?
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_00: It's you know, what am I really trying to accomplish here?
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_00: What what am I really trying to accomplish?
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, what do I want to be understood?
• 47:45
  SPEAKER_00: Do I want something to change?
• 47:47
  SPEAKER_00: Is that what this is really about?
• 47:49
  SPEAKER_00: Do I or do I are am I looking for us to sort of reconnect in a in a different way?
• 47:55
  SPEAKER_00: You know, or or do I want the satisfaction of hearing you say to me you're right, you know, because those are really different goals, you know, and maybe in a way, I sometimes I do want you to say you're right when we really get into something, like, no, this is I am right on this.
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_00: Like, but most times it's not that.
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, sometimes you may want to say, you may want to hear me say, no, you're Tim, you're right.
• 48:20
  SPEAKER_00: Like we'll bicker, you and I will bicker about stupid things the other day, like the traffic.
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I said to you, no, you're actually I'm totally wrong.
• 48:26
  SPEAKER_00: You're right.
• 48:27
  SPEAKER_00: You didn't ask for it.
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_00: You didn't, you didn't ask for me to say that.
• 48:30
  SPEAKER_00: But I think it's important.
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_00: What I've learned is that I also think it's important when you and I go back and forth about stupid little things.
• 48:36
  SPEAKER_00: Because we'll we'll bicker about, we will bicker about little things.
• 48:39
  SPEAKER_00: When I'm wrong, to tell you you're right.
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_00: If I'm wrong, you're right.
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you are right on that.
• 48:43
  SPEAKER_00: You you had actually you you knew the right way to go to get to the store or whatever.
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm not saying that people shouldn't stay on their grounds and relationships.
• 48:51
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not I'm not really saying that at all.
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, there are things that are worth fighting for, right?
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_00: Things like respect and trust, you know, things like what you value, your values and your boundaries.
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, those are things worth fighting for.
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_00: But I think a lot of relationships and relationship arguments, what people fight about, they're they're not those things.
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's more about our egos, unfortunately.
• 49:16
  SPEAKER_00: A thousand percent.
• 49:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's about my ego, it's about your ego.
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's about like, no, I I'm not giving up on this one.
• 49:23
  SPEAKER_00: I'm I want to be right on this.
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_00: Even something as stupid as the quickest way to get to the store, or you know, who remembers a statistic better?
• 49:33
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you and I will like, let's say we'll fight about some stupid football statistic.
• 49:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, no, and I'm like, oh shoot, I'll go look it up because I want to prove I'm right.
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, oh darn, Tim's right.
• 49:44
  SPEAKER_00: But I'll go back and be like, no, I'm totally wrong on that.
• 49:46
  SPEAKER_00: You're right.
• 49:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, those are low stakes uh arguments, but they're still stupid little bickering things we get into.
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's isn't that how life works?
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, yeah, but it's ego, it's ego, right?
• 49:58
  SPEAKER_00: So many of these like bickerings that may start out innocently enough with couples is about ego, and then they get to be bigger, and it's still ego, right?
• 50:08
  SPEAKER_01: Well, maybe that's the risk right there, is is is because these little things come up all the time for everybody.
• 50:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, look, where could it go?
• 50:16
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 50:17
  SPEAKER_01: Like how how big could it get?
• 50:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's the risk.
• 50:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I think here's your power move.
• 50:22
  SPEAKER_00: I think the question really for you to ask yourself is do I want to be right or do I want to be effective?
• 50:30
  SPEAKER_00: Or do I want to be happy?
• 50:31
  SPEAKER_00: You know, do I you want to be right or do you want to be happy?
• 50:34
  SPEAKER_00: Do you want to be right or do you want to be effective in your relationship with your person?
• 50:38
  SPEAKER_00: And they're they're not the same thing.
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 50:41
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just thinking, like, there's there's things that come up where it's like, are you right?
• 50:46
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's hard because like some things you can pull statements or you can pull your air quotes, you said the word receipts, like you can pull that stuff up to like prove something, but then there's also like like something being pulled completely out of context, which is what the other person is trying to convey.
• 51:05
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's not okay, the the fact of that little fact, yeah, that is correct.
• 51:12
  SPEAKER_01: And what the other person was trying to to say to you was was that that was pulled completely out of context in the moment to prove this, like there's layers to it, yes, right?
• 51:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, and then it's like then you distorting distorting sort of misremembering, yeah.
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_01: And then there's really and then it then it becomes like, well, then who can you're grasping for the for the land, like you're in the world.
• 51:35
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that's ego, but that's also ego, but it's like who can who can get a better hold on it, right?
• 51:40
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, uh no, I'm gonna get a little better hold.
• 51:42
  SPEAKER_01: No, I'm gonna get it.
• 51:43
  SPEAKER_01: No, I'm gonna get it on it.
• 51:43
  SPEAKER_01: It goes on all the time, yeah.
• 51:44
  SPEAKER_00: It goes on all the time in relationships.
• 51:46
  SPEAKER_00: All right, we gotta move on.
• 51:48
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so the next one, really great relationships.
• 51:52
  SPEAKER_00: I have seen this with my couples I've worked with, I've seen it in my personal life, and I I see it with us really good and great relationships are built in the ridiculously small moments.
• 52:03
  SPEAKER_00: And those of you who are in these good relationships or you've really had a great relationship model for you with people in your life, you know this to be true.
• 52:12
  SPEAKER_00: And this is where Gottman's research is really very useful.
• 52:15
  SPEAKER_00: John Gottman calls them bids for connection, and we've talked about this before.
• 52:19
  SPEAKER_00: It's a bids for connection are so important.
• 52:21
  SPEAKER_00: So your partner says something like, Oh, come look at this, or did you hear what happened?
• 52:26
  SPEAKER_00: These are bids for connection.
• 52:27
  SPEAKER_00: Come here, come here, I want to show you something.
• 52:29
  SPEAKER_00: Or, or they touch you, the touch on the arm, a touch on the shoulder, or they tell you, this is me, they tell you something really stupid, you know, that's kind of funny.
• 52:38
  SPEAKER_00: Those are bids for connection.
• 52:39
  SPEAKER_00: I do this all the time with you, I'll show you something funny on TikTok, or you'll you'll send me really funny things or insightful things through Instagram.
• 52:48
  SPEAKER_00: Those are bids for connection.
• 52:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't even know if we sometimes realize it.
• 52:52
  SPEAKER_00: Those are really small things we don't always have to be together, but I get a DM from you on Instagram or something you want me to see.
• 52:58
  SPEAKER_00: Those are bids for connection.
• 52:59
  SPEAKER_00: Think about it, Tim.
• 53:00
  SPEAKER_00: When we're really mad at each other, do you still send me them?
• 53:03
  SPEAKER_00: No, we don't.
• 53:04
  SPEAKER_01: That's interesting.
• 53:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 53:06
  SPEAKER_00: When you're really mad at me, when we get in like a really big fight, you're not you're not DMing me funny things or even financial stuff.
• 53:13
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes you'll send me a couple financial people you follow.
• 53:16
  SPEAKER_00: You're not sending me financial things about retirement.
• 53:18
  SPEAKER_00: You're so mad at me, you're not sending me anything.
• 53:20
  unknown: Right.
• 53:21
  SPEAKER_00: Those are little bids for connection.
• 53:22
  SPEAKER_01: That's true, it's true, right?
• 53:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 53:24
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, those are there, these bids mean I want to connect with you.
• 53:30
  SPEAKER_00: Connect with me.
• 53:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 53:31
  SPEAKER_00: Connect with me, right?
• 53:33
  SPEAKER_00: You know, so John Gottman, he has this famous study research that he did with newlyweds.
• 53:39
  SPEAKER_00: And in that research, what he showed was that the couples who were still married six years later had turned towards one another's bids for connection about 86% of the time when they were in the lab.
• 53:52
  SPEAKER_00: They were, it's called the love lab.
• 53:53
  SPEAKER_00: They were in the lab.
• 53:54
  SPEAKER_00: The couples who divorced, only 33% of them put out bids for connection with each other.
• 54:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I love this because we think good marriages are made out of the really big things in in our in our lives, like the anniversary trips, the romantic dinner, having great sex, the big gestures, right?
• 54:13
  SPEAKER_00: And those, yeah, those things do matter.
• 54:15
  SPEAKER_00: But most marriages happen on a Tuesday night in your kitchen.
• 54:20
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you know, it's your spouse saying, Look at what the dog, look at the dog, look what the dog's doing.
• 54:26
  SPEAKER_00: What the hell?
• 54:26
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 54:27
  SPEAKER_00: And you looking up.
• 54:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's putting down your phone.
• 54:30
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's asking the second question, asking a follow-up question that shows you're really paying attention.
• 54:37
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's touching somebody, you know, touching them, me when I walk past you, you know, it's it's saying, You tell me more.
• 54:45
  SPEAKER_00: Tell me more.
• 54:46
  SPEAKER_00: I want to know more about that.
• 54:47
  SPEAKER_00: Really?
• 54:47
  SPEAKER_00: Really?
• 54:48
  SPEAKER_00: That's what happened.
• 54:48
  SPEAKER_00: What else?
• 54:49
  SPEAKER_00: What else?
• 54:49
  SPEAKER_00: Tell me next.
• 54:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I'll do that for you.
• 54:51
  SPEAKER_00: You'll talk to me about something, and I'm like, oh yeah, what else?
• 54:53
  SPEAKER_00: What else?
• 54:54
  SPEAKER_00: Tell me more about that.
• 54:55
  SPEAKER_00: You know, those are bids for connection.
• 54:57
  SPEAKER_00: That's emotionally intelligent couples in an emotionally intelligent per person.
• 55:03
  SPEAKER_00: It's really quite simple.
• 55:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 55:05
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 55:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 55:06
  SPEAKER_00: So, so here's your power move for this one.
• 55:09
  SPEAKER_00: For one day, just notice your partner's bids.
• 55:13
  SPEAKER_00: For one day this week, notice their bids for connection with you.
• 55:17
  SPEAKER_00: How often are they reaching towards you in really tiny ways?
• 55:21
  SPEAKER_00: And how often are you actually turning towards them?
• 55:24
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that's yeah, that's big.
• 55:26
  SPEAKER_01: Pay attention, right?
• 55:26
  SPEAKER_00: Because how often are you looking up from your phone or actually putting your phone down?
• 55:31
  SPEAKER_01: Or just well, just stopping.
• 55:33
  SPEAKER_00: Or leaning up against the counter in the kitchen and talking with them.
• 55:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 55:38
  SPEAKER_00: Laughing about, say, look at the dog.
• 55:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 55:40
  SPEAKER_00: You know, just just talking.
• 55:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 55:42
  SPEAKER_00: You know, not being on your phone at night and looking to one another and you know, maybe talking in bed versus both of you being on your phones.
• 55:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 55:49
  SPEAKER_00: Those are bids for a connection.
• 55:51
  SPEAKER_00: Someone makes a bid, you have to respond to it.
• 55:54
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 55:54
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 55:55
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah.
• 55:55
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I was gonna say, because it's it's I I know I've done this.
• 55:59
  SPEAKER_01: I I feel like and I know when I'm doing it too, which stinks, but like, so you'll you'll want to show me something and I'm and I'm doing something already, right?
• 56:09
  SPEAKER_01: Probably something work related.
• 56:11
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe I'm texting clients trying to like come up with a schedule, and I'm so wrapped up in like getting that done that I that I'm like, I become like uh with your reach out.
• 56:23
  SPEAKER_00: I know, right?
• 56:23
  SPEAKER_01: Like, like those I know, I see it.
• 56:26
  SPEAKER_00: Because you're working all the time, yeah.
• 56:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 56:29
  SPEAKER_00: Always working.
• 56:30
  SPEAKER_01: But I think that's a good lesson for anybody that's listening, is like like be mindful of that because like we're all busy.
• 56:36
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that's interesting.
• 56:37
  SPEAKER_00: It's actually a good insight, good point to bring up because I know you're working and you are working so much of the time.
• 56:45
  SPEAKER_00: You're always in your phone or in your schedule, your your schedule or your book thing, and I'm trying to talk to you.
• 56:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I actually get used, I'm kind of used to it.
• 56:53
  SPEAKER_00: I'm kind of used to you sort of ignoring me or half listening to me because I know you're working, but it's like, when are you not?
• 56:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and so I think for me, the being the recipient of that, or for those of you who are watching or listening, you know what I'm talking about because you do get used to the person not really fully listening to you, and I'm okay with it because a lot of times it's like whatever, I don't know.
• 57:12
  SPEAKER_00: I don't really care, it's not that important.
• 57:13
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I'll I don't know, I'll make something I'll talk about something inane about the kitchen or something in the kitchen, or yeah, something about why is the air fryer not working, it's whatever.
• 57:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I and it's a kind of a rhetorical question, it's to you, but I can figure it out myself.
• 57:26
  SPEAKER_00: But there are times when I do want to talk to you and you're like annoyed with me, but I'm like, you're always working, you have to stop for a second.
• 57:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so that that's yeah, it's interesting.
• 57:37
  SPEAKER_00: I've actually never said that to you.
• 57:38
  SPEAKER_00: I'm glad you actually said that right now because there are times when I do want to really talk to you about something, and you're always I mean, it is a lot to yeah, you're always doing something with work, yeah.
• 57:49
  SPEAKER_01: And it is your point, and it's like being able to like unplug from that for a second because it's not gonna go away.
• 57:54
  SPEAKER_01: Like you can go, you can go back in five in five minutes.
• 57:57
  SPEAKER_01: I'm saying to me now, I can go back in five minutes, I can go back in 30 minutes.
• 58:01
  SPEAKER_00: Because they're probably not gonna be talking about it in five minutes, it's just in that moment right now.
• 58:04
  SPEAKER_00: Or I want to tell you I remembered something from the day.
• 58:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, okay.
• 58:08
  SPEAKER_00: All right, next one and the last one.
• 58:10
  SPEAKER_00: I want you to repair, make that repair.
• 58:12
  SPEAKER_00: It matters more than you having perfect communication.
• 58:15
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 58:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that we we've done a good job of this, a really good job of this.
• 58:20
  SPEAKER_00: So we don't have perfect communication, but I think we really work on making a repair.
• 58:24
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, I think we've created in general this ridiculous standard for relationships.
• 58:31
  SPEAKER_00: You know, emotionally intelligent couples apparently you know, they never yell at each other.
• 58:36
  SPEAKER_00: That's a bunch of BS.
• 58:37
  SPEAKER_00: They do yell at each other.
• 58:38
  SPEAKER_00: They never get defensive, right?
• 58:40
  SPEAKER_00: You know, they never misinterpret each other.
• 58:43
  SPEAKER_00: No, that's not what emotional intelligence is, and that's not what emotionally intelligent couples that I have worked with and I've seen, they do.
• 58:50
  SPEAKER_00: They get mad at each other, they get defensive, they yell at each other, they talk, right?
• 58:55
  SPEAKER_00: You know, they they don't, you know, they're not always using I statements all the time.
• 58:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they do work on it, but they screw that up too.
• 59:02
  SPEAKER_00: And like we get really, really mad and like, no, you do do this all the time.
• 59:06
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's like the I know I shouldn't have should use my ear air quote should you have used I statements, but I was really mad at her.
• 59:14
  SPEAKER_00: And and she does do this all the time.
• 59:16
  SPEAKER_00: He really does do this all the time, and I needed to tell him.
• 59:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, right.
• 59:18
  SPEAKER_00: You know, that's not marriage, that's customer service.
• 59:22
  SPEAKER_00: And marriages are not customer service, right?
• 59:24
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you're gonna screw it up, you're gonna say something really badly to the other person, right?
• 59:30
  SPEAKER_00: You're gonna get flooded, you're gonna get overwhelmed, you're gonna walk away and not say, when we're getting back together to have this fight, because you're so mad you need to leave the room.
• 59:38
  SPEAKER_00: And actually, I need to like get out of this house.
• 59:40
  SPEAKER_00: I need to go for a drive, I need to get out and go for a walk because I'm so mad at you right now.
• 59:45
  SPEAKER_00: That's okay.
• 59:46
  SPEAKER_00: That happens, that's real life.
• 59:48
  SPEAKER_00: You know, Gottman's work on physiological flooding is really important here because once we are highly activated, highly, really, really mad at each other, and it's like, you know, we need to stop right now because I'm gonna probably say some things that I'll regret.
• 1:00:03
  SPEAKER_00: When you're training to be a Gottman therapist, and I don't know how many Gottman people do this anymore, you actually wear the pulse oximeter in the sessions, you know, that you have a pulse oximeter where you wear it because we can see your physical physiological changes, and I can see it in the person and we can see it in each other.
• 1:00:20
  SPEAKER_00: So it actually shows you the physiological responses of being air quote flooded emotionally.
• 1:00:25
  SPEAKER_00: It's happening in your body.
• 1:00:27
  SPEAKER_00: This is somatic work, it's happening in your body.
• 1:00:30
  SPEAKER_00: And so while people get really activated and really upset, that's why it's like, you know what?
• 1:00:35
  SPEAKER_00: There ain't no way that person's listening.
• 1:00:38
  SPEAKER_00: There ain't no way I'm listening at this point.
• 1:00:40
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I'm not gonna empathize with you and I'm not gonna problem solve with you because I am so pissed off right now.
• 1:00:47
  SPEAKER_00: I need to leave.
• 1:00:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and that's okay, right?
• 1:00:49
  SPEAKER_00: So sometimes the smartest thing that a couple can do, both or one of you, is to say, stop.
• 1:00:56
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I can't do this right now.
• 1:00:58
  SPEAKER_00: Don't storm out.
• 1:00:59
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's not storming out, it's not, you're not gonna punish them.
• 1:01:03
  SPEAKER_00: Don't be punishing of them.
• 1:01:04
  SPEAKER_00: Just say something like, okay, we're not doing anything useful right now.
• 1:01:08
  SPEAKER_00: And you and I have done this.
• 1:01:10
  SPEAKER_00: There's nothing about this conversation that's that's going right.
• 1:01:13
  SPEAKER_00: And you said it to me, like this is not useful.
• 1:01:16
  SPEAKER_00: We have to come back to this.
• 1:01:18
  SPEAKER_00: And this is the rule that I was taught in Gottman.
• 1:01:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I do say to my would say to my couples, is you can leave, but you do have to tell the other, you need to try to get yourself centered for a minute to say, let's talk tonight.
• 1:01:28
  SPEAKER_00: You can't you can't just leave because it's gonna feel like an abandonment.
• 1:01:32
  SPEAKER_00: You have to say, We'll talk tonight, or we'll talk, we'll talk at eight.
• 1:01:35
  SPEAKER_00: We'll talk at we'll after let's put the kids to bed and we'll we'll have this conversation.
• 1:01:38
  SPEAKER_00: We have done that, and it actually come back much calmer because you've had some time to think about what it is because the the we have started to come come to blows, not physically, but emotionally come to blows.
• 1:01:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like we are shut down, we are just we're yelling at each other, and we're both so dug in in our points, and then we've we've stopped and we've come back.
• 1:01:57
  SPEAKER_00: You've had to drive the kids to practice or something back in the day, or I've had to make dinner, and then we've come back later that night, and it's been much, much better.
• 1:02:04
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so but you gotta actually come back, all right?
• 1:02:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and and so when when you screw it up, make a repair.
• 1:02:13
  SPEAKER_00: So when you screw it up, make that repair with the other person, say, okay, that wasn't fair.
• 1:02:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I got I got really, really defensive with you.
• 1:02:20
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I still but I still believe, you know, what I was trying to say to you is what I think and I feel.
• 1:02:28
  SPEAKER_00: I do believe that those are the facts for me, but I don't like how I said it to you.
• 1:02:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm I'm sorry for that.
• 1:02:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I was wrong on that.
• 1:02:34
  SPEAKER_00: You know, that wasn't fair.
• 1:02:36
  SPEAKER_00: I I shouldn't have said it that way, and I'm sorry I said it that way.
• 1:02:38
  SPEAKER_00: Say you're sorry.
• 1:02:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:02:39
  SPEAKER_00: I say this on the podcast before.
• 1:02:41
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes it's like just say you're sorry.
• 1:02:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:02:43
  SPEAKER_00: You know, the last sentence, though, is one of my favorites.
• 1:02:47
  SPEAKER_00: I don't like how he said it because apologizing doesn't mean admitting that your entire position was wrong, right?
• 1:02:52
  SPEAKER_00: Doesn't mean you're totally wrong.
• 1:02:54
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you can either repair the way you handled something without surrendering your point, right?
• 1:03:01
  SPEAKER_00: You can still make your point, but I don't like the way I said it.
• 1:03:04
  SPEAKER_00: That was wrong.
• 1:03:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I take that back.
• 1:03:06
  SPEAKER_00: I I shouldn't have spoken to you that way.
• 1:03:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I won't, I'll I'm gonna do my, I'm not gonna do that again.
• 1:03:11
  SPEAKER_00: I won't speak to you that way again.
• 1:03:12
  SPEAKER_00: You've done that before.
• 1:03:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:03:14
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and I think, I mean, most of the time, I think there's there's a miss on both sides of it, right?
• 1:03:20
  SPEAKER_01: Like not one person's not all correct, right?
• 1:03:24
  SPEAKER_01: I I think there's there's like a there's and we say that to each other.
• 1:03:28
  SPEAKER_00: You are not 100% correct in this fight, right?
• 1:03:30
  SPEAKER_01: So we've said that.
• 1:03:31
  SPEAKER_00: So the takeaway from And it's hard to hear, it's hard to hear, but we have to take it.
• 1:03:35
  SPEAKER_01: It is, but I I think the big takeaway is then like then that person needs to own it, right?
• 1:03:40
  SPEAKER_01: Be like, yeah, you know what?
• 1:03:42
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not all right on this.
• 1:03:44
  SPEAKER_01: And sometimes we get stubborn.
• 1:03:46
  SPEAKER_01: That's what we're doing.
• 1:03:46
  SPEAKER_00: Well, we get stubborn, stubbornness comes in for people, we don't like to admit it.
• 1:03:49
  SPEAKER_00: Like, okay, fine, I wasn't completely right.
• 1:03:52
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, but you gotta work on that.
• 1:03:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you gotta work on that.
• 1:03:56
  SPEAKER_00: I know I've had to work on it because I can be very stubborn.
• 1:03:58
  SPEAKER_00: We both can be really stubborn.
• 1:03:59
  SPEAKER_00: We get stubborn, like I said, we we dig our heels in and like when we're making the repair.
• 1:04:04
  SPEAKER_00: I still I still don't like like to give up like that.
• 1:04:07
  SPEAKER_00: Like, well, it's kind of right on that part, but you have to let it go.
• 1:04:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's what you we talk about.
• 1:04:12
  SPEAKER_00: Like, take you talk about taking one for the team all the time in our family.
• 1:04:15
  SPEAKER_00: Take one for the team, you're gonna take this one for our team.
• 1:04:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I have to take one for the team of the two of us.
• 1:04:20
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes I'll get to the case.
• 1:04:21
  SPEAKER_01: Because you don't have to win, yeah.
• 1:04:23
  SPEAKER_01: Like you said earlier, you don't you might think that you have to win, but the reality is like don't don't say that or or don't portray that, right?
• 1:04:35
  SPEAKER_01: Because because if that's how I receive what you're saying, or your eye contact or your facial expressions, I'd be like, Wait, you're not really even believing what you're saying out of your own mouth, right?
• 1:04:45
  SPEAKER_00: And I and I yeah, and then you got me thinking, I want to make a point here because I'm thinking about the you know, clients I've worked with are people I know who maybe they don't fight, they don't fight well because they're more of a a quieter couple or they're not the most communicative couple, and they get mad at each other, and they might play head games and mental games with each other.
• 1:05:05
  SPEAKER_00: This is maybe a stretch and it's something to work on.
• 1:05:09
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe, you know, you you don't, you're the type of couple who like, no, we don't psychoanalyze everything with each other, we just we don't do that, and you still get mad, you know.
• 1:05:19
  SPEAKER_00: Work on finding ways in your own way of talking with one another about thoughts and feelings.
• 1:05:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like work on meeting that person, maybe, or one of you is a quieter, less communicative person than the other person.
• 1:05:33
  SPEAKER_00: Both of you have to find a way to meet each other in the middle.
• 1:05:35
  SPEAKER_00: So I want to say that because not every couple, like you and I are communicative.
• 1:05:40
  SPEAKER_00: You've gotten to be more communicative.
• 1:05:42
  SPEAKER_00: You weren't.
• 1:05:43
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you were probably you're outgoing, but you're probably maybe less communicative or less talkative than I am historically.
• 1:05:51
  SPEAKER_00: And you have certainly changed so much throughout our marriage.
• 1:05:55
  SPEAKER_00: And there are couples who that's just not how they are, they're never gonna be, they're not an extrovert.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_00: They're more of an introvert.
• 1:06:01
  SPEAKER_00: They're a quieter person.
• 1:06:02
  SPEAKER_00: They don't communicate as much.
• 1:06:03
  SPEAKER_00: They have lots and lots of thoughts and feelings, and they keep them close inside themselves, even with their husband or their wife or their life partner.
• 1:06:11
  SPEAKER_00: They're just not that person.
• 1:06:13
  SPEAKER_00: So for those of you who are like that, that's okay too.
• 1:06:17
  SPEAKER_00: Find a way to communicate in a way that works for you and in your relationship and in your marriage and your partnership.
• 1:06:23
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 1:06:23
  SPEAKER_00: I want to say that because not everybody is going to be the way we are.
• 1:06:27
  SPEAKER_00: Find it and work with someone who can help you communicate a little bit better in the way that works for you.
• 1:06:33
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 1:06:34
  SPEAKER_00: Because you can take all these points and all the power moves I'm giving you today and and kind of work them and curate them and hone them into a way that works for you.
• 1:06:42
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 1:06:43
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 1:06:43
  SPEAKER_00: Really important.
• 1:06:44
  SPEAKER_00: I want to say that.
• 1:06:45
  SPEAKER_00: So the power move on that last one is I want you to get really good at saying, don't take back what I was trying to say to you, but I don't like how I said it.
• 1:06:54
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's a good power move.
• 1:06:56
  SPEAKER_00: I I don't take back what I was trying to say, but I will take back how I said it to you.
• 1:07:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm sorry for that.
• 1:07:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I was wrong for that.
• 1:07:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I will work on that.
• 1:07:04
  SPEAKER_00: I'll I will work on changing that.
• 1:07:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:07:06
  SPEAKER_00: Say that.
• 1:07:06
  SPEAKER_00: It's a huge power move.
• 1:07:08
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 1:07:08
  SPEAKER_00: It's really, really big.
• 1:07:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:07:10
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, my gosh, that's like so healing.
• 1:07:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's really helpful.
• 1:07:13
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so one more thing I want to add before we end this episode.
• 1:07:18
  SPEAKER_00: Your partner cannot manage your entire inner world.
• 1:07:23
  SPEAKER_00: And this is really important.
• 1:07:24
  SPEAKER_00: Probably the most important thing I'm gonna say in this episode at the very end.
• 1:07:28
  SPEAKER_00: So sometimes your partner does affect how you feel, right?
• 1:07:32
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes.
• 1:07:33
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 1:07:34
  SPEAKER_00: That's a thing.
• 1:07:35
  SPEAKER_00: But there's a big difference between something you did, Tim, hurt me, versus you're responsible for making sure that I never never feel hurt.
• 1:07:46
  SPEAKER_00: No, it's not right.
• 1:07:48
  SPEAKER_00: That's not it.
• 1:07:50
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, you're not responsible for making sure that I never feel hurt.
• 1:07:53
  SPEAKER_00: That's on me.
• 1:07:54
  SPEAKER_00: That's impossible.
• 1:07:56
  SPEAKER_00: You can't do it.
• 1:07:57
  SPEAKER_00: So this goes back to 12 steps.
• 1:07:58
  SPEAKER_00: This goes to AA, which I love.
• 1:08:00
  SPEAKER_00: We can't fix, manage, and control other people.
• 1:08:02
  SPEAKER_00: That's what I would say to you.
• 1:08:04
  SPEAKER_00: You can't fix, manage, and control other people.
• 1:08:06
  SPEAKER_00: You know, the marriage does not eliminate your personal responsibility to work on yourself.
• 1:08:12
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes I get anxious.
• 1:08:14
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes I'm insecure.
• 1:08:16
  SPEAKER_00: You know, sometimes I'm cranky.
• 1:08:17
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes I get really bitchy.
• 1:08:19
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes, and we know that, right?
• 1:08:21
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes something old, like I said earlier about my family of origin, gets triggered in me.
• 1:08:26
  SPEAKER_00: And it actually has nothing to do with you.
• 1:08:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's what's coming up, what's percolating to the surface inside of me.
• 1:08:33
  SPEAKER_00: That's why your individual work is so, so important.
• 1:08:37
  SPEAKER_00: And that's not about couples or marriage.
• 1:08:39
  SPEAKER_00: That's where it's like, okay, you you got some of your own work that you need to do.
• 1:08:43
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 1:08:43
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, you didn't necessarily, we get into a fight, something gets triggered inside of me, you didn't necessarily cause it, right?
• 1:08:51
  SPEAKER_00: One of the questions that I have learned to ask myself over the years is, is this something, is this something that's happening between us?
• 1:08:59
  SPEAKER_00: Or is this something that's happening inside of me?
• 1:09:02
  SPEAKER_00: And there have been many times, when it's not between us, it's it's something that's happening inside of me.
• 1:09:06
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 1:09:07
  SPEAKER_00: That you actually don't even know anything about because I haven't shared it with you, but I am triggered.
• 1:09:12
  SPEAKER_00: And like you may be like, wow, that was she's having a really strong reaction.
• 1:09:16
  SPEAKER_00: And then later I'll be like, You would say to me, Yeah, that was strong, you know, strong.
• 1:09:20
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, Yeah, because it had nothing to do with you actually, maybe it was about me with this or that.
• 1:09:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, it's like, okay, yeah, that's on me.
• 1:09:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's on me, right?
• 1:09:29
  SPEAKER_01: Well, we said this earlier in the episode.
• 1:09:31
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, but sharing that, right?
• 1:09:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like if I know that, like when I forget like family abortion stuff, we said at the very beginning, yeah.
• 1:09:39
  SPEAKER_01: Like if I know that that's a trigger for you, like that's buried deep inside your head, and those memories will surface every once in a while.
• 1:09:46
  SPEAKER_01: Having said that out loud, you having had said that out loud to me, I know that now.
• 1:09:51
  SPEAKER_01: And now I and now I know to look for that because I know at some point it's gonna it's gonna get intertwined with something.
• 1:09:58
  SPEAKER_00: And that's when you said to me, okay, what's really going on?
• 1:10:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:10:01
  SPEAKER_00: I know that you know, and I just haven't said it yet.
• 1:10:04
  SPEAKER_00: And that helps me to kind of because sometimes I'm not always even aware, I'm just in my bodily reactive mode, my stomach's tight because I have all the somatic stuff going on.
• 1:10:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:10:13
  SPEAKER_00: And when you say that, it will help me to pause, be like, uh, uh, okay, it's okay.
• 1:10:19
  SPEAKER_00: There's something with, and I don't always know what it is, but there's something with that with being spoken to.
• 1:10:24
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 1:10:25
  SPEAKER_00: And there's a tone, and you're like, I didn't even think I had a tone.
• 1:10:28
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, Yeah, you you probably didn't, but I inter in a way it didn't matter because like what I interpreted it is its tone.
• 1:10:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:10:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, Yeah, truth be told, it probably wasn't so much you, it was the tone, the tone.
• 1:10:39
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I got activated.
• 1:10:40
  SPEAKER_00: For some reason, I went back to this memory and it was a tone and I didn't like it.
• 1:10:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like yelling at you, and it wasn't really about you, it was about me being mad about something else that happened a long time ago.
• 1:10:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I will tell you this, it's very helpful.
• 1:10:52
  SPEAKER_00: It's healing.
• 1:10:53
  SPEAKER_00: It's healing, it's healing for me, it's helpful for you.
• 1:10:55
  SPEAKER_00: It's good for the relationship.
• 1:10:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, okay.
• 1:10:57
  SPEAKER_00: So this is where internal family systems is really very helpful again.
• 1:11:00
  SPEAKER_00: This is what I just did out loud with all of you.
• 1:11:03
  SPEAKER_00: You know, so the question is can I take, can I take care of the part of me that's activated before demanding that another person make it disappear?
• 1:11:13
  SPEAKER_00: Can I take care of that part of me, which I kind of do with you without making having you make it disappear?
• 1:11:20
  SPEAKER_00: And and I don't think I do that.
• 1:11:22
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think we we just said, I don't think we do that, but there are couples who do that.
• 1:11:26
  SPEAKER_00: Make it go away, make it go away because it's about you.
• 1:11:28
  SPEAKER_00: And the work that that person still needs to do is no, no, no, it's not about the couple, you as in the context of a couple, it's not about your partner, your spouse.
• 1:11:35
  SPEAKER_00: This is about you.
• 1:11:37
  SPEAKER_00: This is about something that's getting activated inside of you.
• 1:11:39
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so that's very different from never needing your spouse.
• 1:11:42
  SPEAKER_00: We all always should need each other.
• 1:11:45
  SPEAKER_00: That's intimacy.
• 1:11:46
  SPEAKER_00: We always should need that emotional, psychological, physical intimacy with one with one another.
• 1:11:52
  SPEAKER_00: It's it, but it's about more of I need you right now is different from you need to fix me.
• 1:12:00
  SPEAKER_00: Because you don't need to fix me.
• 1:12:01
  SPEAKER_00: You can't actually fix me.
• 1:12:03
  SPEAKER_00: I need you, I need you in my life, I need you in all parts of my life, but I don't need you to fix me.
• 1:12:08
  SPEAKER_00: I gotta, I gotta do that.
• 1:12:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:12:09
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 1:12:10
  SPEAKER_00: Really important.
• 1:12:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:12:11
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 1:12:12
  SPEAKER_00: So the five questions that you can steal from this episode, all right.
• 1:12:16
  SPEAKER_00: Here they are.
• 1:12:17
  SPEAKER_00: What do I actually know?
• 1:12:19
  SPEAKER_00: And what am I adding to the situation?
• 1:12:22
  SPEAKER_00: What part of me is activated right now?
• 1:12:24
  SPEAKER_00: And what is it protecting?
• 1:12:26
  SPEAKER_00: There's your internal family systems, that's your your parts work, your inner child work.
• 1:12:31
  SPEAKER_00: What's the cycle that we are caught in?
• 1:12:34
  SPEAKER_00: What's the cycle?
• 1:12:35
  SPEAKER_00: You you push back on that a little bit.
• 1:12:37
  SPEAKER_00: If you can't sit in the moment, after you've made the repair, after you've made up, spend some time, each of you, going back and looking.
• 1:12:43
  SPEAKER_00: Is there a pattern, is there a cycle that we've gotten ourselves into?
• 1:12:46
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 1:12:46
  SPEAKER_00: Do I want to be right or do I want to be effective in this relationship?
• 1:12:51
  SPEAKER_00: Next, what will be turning toward this person look like right now?
• 1:12:54
  SPEAKER_00: Those are those bids for connection that I talked about.
• 1:12:57
  SPEAKER_00: And maybe a sixth one could be is this a problem to solve or just a feeling to tolerate?
• 1:13:04
  SPEAKER_00: Because I have to say this at the end of this episode, not every single fight situation is worth having a big, huge conversation around.
• 1:13:13
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes it's just yeah, sometimes it's just living with someone, and that's their quirks.
• 1:13:18
  SPEAKER_00: And this is just something I gotta, I don't really care for it, but it's something that I gotta tolerate.
• 1:13:22
  SPEAKER_00: And no, it's not a big deal, it's not a deal breaker.
• 1:13:25
  SPEAKER_00: It's just something about that person that you know I don't love.
• 1:13:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's kind of annoying to me, and I love him or her or them, and I'm gonna let it go.
• 1:13:32
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 1:13:33
  SPEAKER_00: So, because not every irritation needs to have a meeting, right?
• 1:13:37
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes your spouse is just annoying as hell to you.
• 1:13:40
  SPEAKER_00: You know what?
• 1:13:40
  SPEAKER_00: You're annoying too.
• 1:13:41
  SPEAKER_00: We are annoying, right?
• 1:13:43
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to marriage.
• 1:13:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, right.
• 1:13:45
  SPEAKER_00: So, this is something that I know after 30 years of being a therapist, I know quite a bit about emotional intelligence.
• 1:13:53
  SPEAKER_00: I know Gottman's research, I know internal family systems, I know Sue Johnson's work and emotionally focused and attachment theory.
• 1:14:02
  SPEAKER_00: I know all this, but marriage has taught me something that none of those models could have taught me.
• 1:14:07
  SPEAKER_00: It's that knowing is not the same thing as living it.
• 1:14:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I try my best.
• 1:14:12
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not perfect, but I try my best.
• 1:14:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I think you try your best to really try to live this stuff, right?
• 1:14:18
  SPEAKER_00: The real test of emotional intelligence is what happens when the person you love hits the exact nerve that makes you defensive, angry, scared, PO'd, or hurt?
• 1:14:30
  SPEAKER_00: You know, can you notice your own reaction?
• 1:14:33
  SPEAKER_00: Can you get underneath it?
• 1:14:34
  SPEAKER_00: Can you understand it?
• 1:14:35
  SPEAKER_00: Can you recognize a cycle instead of immediately blaming your partner?
• 1:14:39
  SPEAKER_00: Can you tolerate occasionally being wrong?
• 1:14:42
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe sometimes it's you.
• 1:14:43
  SPEAKER_00: You're the problem.
• 1:14:44
  SPEAKER_00: Can you repair when you screw it up?
• 1:14:47
  SPEAKER_00: And can you turn, can you keep turning towards each other in all those incredibly ordinary moments of your life?
• 1:14:55
  SPEAKER_00: That's what I think emotional intelligence looks like in a marriage, right?
• 1:14:58
  SPEAKER_00: Not perfect communication, not never fighting, not being endlessly calm, right?
• 1:15:03
  SPEAKER_00: It's awareness, it's responsibility, it's curiosity about each other and the situation and the way you're fighting, it's repair, right, it's connection, and the willingness over and over and over again to find your way back to each other.
• 1:15:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:15:19
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 1:15:20
  SPEAKER_01: Like it.
• 1:15:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:15:21
  SPEAKER_00: Hope that this is helpful, everybody.
• 1:15:23
  SPEAKER_00: Mad love.
• 1:15:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I'll see you next time.
• 1:15:25
  SPEAKER_00: Don't forget to give us a five star review.
• 1:15:28
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 1:15:29
  SPEAKER_00: See you later.