Latest / Most Things Kenobi - A Star Wars Podcast / Episode 109: Leadership within Star Wars: Characters that Inspire Us to Be Better through Example

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Episode 109: Leadership within Star Wars: Characters that Inspire Us to Be Better through Example · Most Things Kenobi - A Star Wars Podcast

0:00
Hello. Then it's time for most things
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Kenobi. Shouldn't it be all things
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Kenobi. Hmm.
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Hi everyone, welcome to another episode of most things Kenobi.
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A podcast about Obi-Wan Kenobi and all things.
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Star Wars. I'm your host Leanne.
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And I'm your host Lauren. in this week, we're going to talk
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about the overarching theme of leadership but within the Star
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Wars world because there are a number of leaders in all of the
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different Star Wars media, right?
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Some we can think of right off the top of our head and some
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that may not be so obvious but have traits of a leader and it
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goes, it spans from the prequels all the way to the sequels and
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everything in between including Comics.
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I mean we're not going to have that kind of time to go through
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all of them but I do have notes on how we're going to go through
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this. Yes.
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You want to give Background or a caveat of why?
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Sure why we are not me, you are qualified to have this guy, I'm
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not qualified. We need you more qualify that I
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am. Well, all of this is okay.
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So I guess in my personal life, I've attended leadership
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conferences where we had to learn about our own Styles and
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what we want to see from a leader And I couldn't help, but
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think of Star Wars. I mean, some of the best
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characters in the best examples of the types of things we went
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over in these leadership workshops, I could easily
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identify in characters. I holy respect in Star Wars
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itself. And so, in Star Wars, it's more
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obvious. There's good versus evil.
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One is trying to triumph over the other.
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And how did they get it done? With great leadership.
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And I want to ask you this question to start this entire
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thing off, who would you follow into battle in Star Wars?
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Who comes to your mind first? Hmm.
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Honestly, Obi-Wan comes to mind first, right, followed closely
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by Leia. Exactly same.
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Yeah, there's no, of course, there's not a theme.
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And in fact, I asked this question on Twitter and of the
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replies I got Leo was the most, the most obvious like the most
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commonly referenced leader, okay.
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And I actually want to break it down into the original trilogy,
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The Clone Wars, and then everything else sequels and
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Mandalorian and and what's the other one Rebels, God, because
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male female alien on alien, there's all these perfect
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archetypes, right? In Star Wars that You just want
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it, you would trust and follow and Leia is the top of the top,
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right? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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And even from a young age, right?
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Even when like you don't need a workshop to know that I trust
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that woman and I would follow her forward into whatever.
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She, you know, wanted me to. And yeah, it's interesting
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because they all kind of exude the same qualities.
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And I think on a much larger much larger scale, what I want
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to get from this episode in our conversation between ourselves
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is like, how, how can we be like these people?
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Right? Because I've always said, I am
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Leia, but I aspire to be Luke Yeah.
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And it's one of those things where you look up to a certain
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character and you want to emulate those characteristics of
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said character and it's like, why do we even why do we even
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think of them. So that's what I thought we
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could talk about. And I guess I'll drive this
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episode just based on the fact that I've been to a few doesn't
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work shops for work? Well, I mean, you know that
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because of these workshops you have an understanding of
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leadership style and I know nothing.
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About my knowledge on leadership is all intuitive.
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I have no like formal training in it at all.
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So yeah. Like when you asked me, who
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would I follow into battle 0 b 1 because I trust him.
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Yes. And I don't think you would risk
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my life needlessly, right Leia, because kind of the same thing
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she but both of them would be willing to ask you to sacrifice
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a lot, which correct? Yes.
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Yeah. What's interesting is those are
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all the traits of a great leader.
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And I'm glad you explained why? Because I know why I would
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follow Obi-Wan for the same reasons.
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You said he's someone who's he's not going to endanger us and if
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he did he's going in with us member the right landing at
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Point rain. Yes he was injured, but he
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wasn't going to let his whole Squadron girl without him
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joining him, you know it's like yeah what is it?
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The Commander goes down with the ship.
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I mean That's I mean, we're all in this together type mentality.
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Right. And there's always the
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comparison of, what's the difference between a leader and
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a manager, right? The manager sends people out to
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do things. A leader is with the people that
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go out and do the Honker L bitch.
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Yes, fuck well, so there's two, there's, there's the leaders on
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that edge on that side of things.
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And I also have that in thing. Palpatine Invader were leaders.
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Okay, yeah, yes. Effective leaders.
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You think I want to leaders way and I hate to bring this up, but
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Historical figures, that weren't so great think of whoever you
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can, there's a whole list of historical figures that were
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horrible, terrible people, but they were able to join a large
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group of people together to accomplish something through,
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persuasion through good communication skills, to unite
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uniting them, organizing them, you know, kind of brainwashing
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them. Who's that sound like, Hmm.
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Yeah. So when you're talking about
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being a good leader, are you talking about?
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Morality, or are you talking about Effectiveness, like you
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could use it for bad as well? Well, Palpatine was effective,
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right. He got anyone under him to do
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what he wanted them to do. Hmm.
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So he was in effective leader. But not someone people
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voluntarily wanted to fall. They did not want to follow him.
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They followed him out of fear. It goes back to the from a
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certain point of view. What's his name was a he needed.
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Help p.m. yes. He needed that fear in order to
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continue to follow the orders and feel like he was somebody.
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That's not a good leader, it's an effective leader, but it's
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not, someone you would want to follow Leia.
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Luke Obi-Wan, those are people. You want to follow, and that's
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the key to being an excellent. Good.
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Leader, people are still following you, you're still
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getting things done, but it's because you've bonded with them.
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They trust you and they want to do do the things for you.
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Well, I mean if you've ever had a boss that treated you with
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respect and understanding when they come back around and they
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ask you can you work an extra shift?
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You'll be like yeah I could do that for you because when I need
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something I know you're going to be there for me.
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It's a reciprocal. It's really how you build
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loyalty is respecting the people that you manage or yeah are in
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charge of So let's talk about the original trilogy
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individuals. And we start start with Leah
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because she's the top of the top, right?
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Hmm. And we saw in the Kenobi series,
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that it was already starting with her, mmm, right?
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She you can already see the budding, you know, the budding,
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Senator to come the budding, General to follow.
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And she met people where they were.
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She never thought she was higher than anyone else.
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You know how many times did Han collar princess?
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And she was just like leave that out of it.
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You know, she's it was just yeah, not even part of her
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equation and there's qualities of a leader that make you want
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to follow them. And lay a really exemplifies the
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ability to inspire she inspired so many Even from a young age
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communication, she was always very clear when she's giving
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those briefings people listened. She had an audience, they wanted
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to hear what she had to say. They trusted her, she came with
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a sense of humor she had confidence and she was
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committed, never wavered. And and who does that make?
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You also think of mon mothma? Yes.
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Oh my gosh, yes, right she had a more quiet sense about her but
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she had the same thing she inspired She delegated, she was
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committed. She had the attitude.
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She was honest. She had the best interest of her
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group in mind. She had to make the hard
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decisions. That nobody else wanted to do
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but they look to her to make his, they trusted her.
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So it's these same qualities over and over and over.
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I'm probably gonna sound like a broken record.
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Well, it's it's interesting why you're saying this I'm thinking
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of luthan also? Because, so the thing that makes
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him a little bit like I wouldn't put my life in his hands because
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we've seen the way he communicates.
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What I cannot remember, the character's name who is in his
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shop with him all the time, his shop.
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Oh yes, yeah. Whatever her name is.
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And she is willing to cut off their lines, right?
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Cut their losses and pull back without any explanation.
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To the person? They're cutting out, space
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resent. They put a hit on people, you
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know, they they literally are willing to kill off people and
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so joining his team, I would never be sure I was safe, right?
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It kind of reminds me of like, This coming to my because I just
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watched it The Dark Knight at the beginning.
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The Joker puts a team together. Oh yes, I see each person on the
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team to kill another team member.
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So by the end, he's the only one standing, right?
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And it's like, that's kind of how I feel with luthan.
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It's like, as long as you're fighting for the same cause it's
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him on the same page as him, you're fine.
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But if you ever start to think outside the box, I feel like you
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might not be part of the team anymore, you to be Expendable.
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Hmm. I mean, they even say that
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Cassie and Expendable when they put them on the team.
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Well that's why I would rather follow.
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Cassian then luthan. Mmm, kassian is more real.
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He's more down-to-earth, kind of he came from it and thus he
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knows it. Mmm.
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You know, you start at the bottom and work your way up.
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He and it's those moments when they're on L Donnie where he
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just, he ends up being the leader of this group that he was
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Just thrust into. Yes, he steps up when other
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people kind of start to falter. Yes.
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And it's because he's giving them the truth.
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He's not, he's not sugarcoating anything and he's also not gonna
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pull any strings and say, look, this is how it is and this is
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how we got to be to go into this either you're with me or not
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like you guys need to get your minds, right?
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Because he had the best interest of the group because he didn't
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want to die either, right. Right.
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And they ended up trusting him and I think it's an excellent
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And point to make where you don't even have to be the top of
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the top, anyone can be a leader. Anyone you don't have to be the
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captain of a ship, you don't have to be a Jedi, you don't
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have to be part of this. You could be the new person in a
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group and you just have that Charisma and the forthrightness
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of just being honest and truthful about things and people
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are going to turn to you and look to you.
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And that's what I think, separates a good leader from.
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Let's say, the effective leader leadership style that Palpatine
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had he ruled by fear. You couldn't bring your issues
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to Palpatine. Know what did please give
13:04
Invader couldn't bring his issues to Palpatine.
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It was used against him. Can you imagine, like,
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everyone's afraid of Vader? Darth Vader is also playing
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Palpatine's game at the same time?
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Yes. Us which in the comics.
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They help seeing keeps challenging him in the comics,
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like, trying to replace him and Vader.
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Just always manages to step up and Achieve whatever, insane
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thing the emperor wants. I just can't imagine living
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under that kind of stress. You know, who put you in an
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early grave. If you had a boss like that in
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real life, honest to God. Like the stress that everyone is
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under in the Empire. Well, we see it in and or we see
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it in Rogue one chronic was sweating.
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Almost every scene. Oh my God.
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Tarkin and critic scenes, I love them.
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I could honestly watch them over.
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They're both just such, they're like, it's like watching two
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type A people? Yes, I am.
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Yes, you know, it's just like, oh, the head-butting is amazing.
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But I mean, does anyone want to follow that?
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Know, some people. I thrive in it, but I don't know
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if you do then you're made of the same thing that the leader
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is because you have to see eye-to-eye with somebody, right,
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right. If the fear isn't great enough
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to keep you there, then there's also something you share in
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common with that person so you at least understand where
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they're coming from. Yeah, that's an interesting
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point. What a great point and very
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true, that's why the Empire so fucks, right?
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And then there's Finn who was part of the MIT.
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Higher. Hmm, but didn't have the
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qualities. The morality, the he didn't see,
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he didn't understand he was following orders and he defected
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and became a much more effective leader in his like in his
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people, his group of people. Yeah, he was more accepted
15:09
because he had the same goals. The same dream, the same wants
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as Leia, who was leading them essentially.
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And then, Paul and pose. Another one, I want to talk
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about Poe becomes the leader after Leia, essentially, with
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within, which I think no one person can try can replace Leia.
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It has to be filled label. Yeah.
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Yes. But he's an effective leader and
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a good leader. Because comes with that sense of
15:39
humor comes with that realness. He knows what he's talking
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about. Hmm, he knows strategy, he knows
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ships. He's not afraid to take chances
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and he gains the trust of individuals and I would follow
15:52
po because I don't think that he would jeopardize anybody, he
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would sacrifice himself first before his Droid Okay, yes.
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Before, you know, he thinks about everyone and I'm going to
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leave everything from The Last Jedi out of this conversation.
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It deviates from his character far, too much for my liking but
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yeah, PO is he's extremely good leader.
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I think and he also worked his way up.
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He was also kind of underlay has Wing when his parents died.
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So he was learning from the best.
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Mmm. And Leah's like that Pinnacle.
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She's just, she's everything all in one.
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When I kind of wanna focus on how is that because of Baal and
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Brea. So, in the Kenobi series, we see
16:45
how bail talks to Leia with respect, even though she's a
16:50
child. And something I loved about this
16:54
show is that sometimes they have conflict with parents, right?
16:59
Yeah. And briault was kind of Yeah.
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And I was expecting contention there's not she was actually a
17:06
very understanding mother. She wasn't frustrated that her
17:10
daughter was behaving a certain way just needed her to have
17:14
certain manners under certain circumstances but really
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respected her wanting to be an independent spirit and I think
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all of that leads to Leia being so grounded when she's an adult
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and confident. Yes and compassionate and all
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these Things, make a great leader.
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So I just liked seeing that in the Kenobi series.
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Well the treat is the well. What I think they did Bria and
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bail, they allowed Leia to be Leia and her strengths they
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allowed her strengths to come out, right?
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They fostered? What was good about her and an
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excellent leader wants to make sure that they utilize
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everyone's specific talents. They may not be the best at
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Flying a ship but they might be the best at communicating over
18:04
the lines to those who are flying the ship, right?
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And you have to build them up in their area so that they can
18:11
become their greatest version of themself and it takes a really
18:14
smart empathetic InTune person to know people to sense.
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They're not happy. They are happy you know there
18:25
you got to kind of read a room and not everyone's really good
18:28
at that but yeah, it seems Like Leo was placed in a lot of rooms
18:34
since a very young age where she observed people, you know, she
18:37
she handled that what was it? The cousin and the animal, you
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know? Hmm.
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I wish I had. I wish I could be that way,
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right? And she called Obi-Wan out
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because she could sense what he was going through, what he was
18:55
feeling without even asking him. Yeah, you know, you could say
18:59
the force maybe she was in tune with the force and could feel
19:01
it. Maybe not, doesn't matter.
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Either way she used that skill and that feeling or observation
19:10
to positively in, you know, empower the people around her.
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And I think that Obi-Wan does that as well Obi-Wan's.
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If I were to read you, let me just read you a quote, the
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qualities of leadership. Now this is not limited to, but
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this is just a few. Let's all think of Obi-Wan,
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while we listen to these qualities honesty, efficient
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communication knowledge, consistency.
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A Visionary selflessness, courage.
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Judge and willpower. Those are just a few check,
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check, check check, check, check, check, check check.
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And for Leia to, and I would like to add Luke Skywalker.
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Courage selflessness, consistently all over the place.
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God bless him. He, he was honest, he didn't
20:04
hesitate and telling Yoda. Hey man, I gotta go because my
20:08
friends are in trouble, you know.
20:09
Yeah. He felt a certain way and went
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for it and and, you know, he learned from his missteps and
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became a much better communicator.
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But he always did the exact same thing if you were in trouble.
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Luke was there. We saw it in the Mandalorian.
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Yeah. Essentially, Boba Fett has.
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Well, I guess he met grow, gu where he was, he didn't pretend
20:33
to be, you know, above him and anyway just because one was
20:37
young and he was much older. Yeah.
20:39
Yeah, yeah. Grow who trusted him?
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And he had no reason to but he felt through the force.
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This is a good guy, you know, right.
20:49
He's somebody I would follow. Whoa.
20:51
Oh absolutely, I would always follow Luke.
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He's With Luke, what you see is what you get, you know, I think
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that that is also a sign of a good leader when you're
21:04
noticing. Like I think it in a work
21:07
environment, right? If your boss is different with
21:10
you than they are with any other people, you start to wonder You
21:15
know, are they playing you to get you to?
21:18
It's when you start to wonder about people's motivations, it
21:22
starts to make you less loyal and a little more distrusting is
21:27
distressing a word. Yeah.
21:29
Are you missing you mistrust some right?
21:31
Distrust? Mistrust, I don't know.
21:34
You just don't trust them. You don't trust me.
21:40
And with 0 b, 1. I feel like I would trust him to
21:47
not be like using me the way, you know, like pong Krell is
21:54
using his people like pawns. Yeah.
21:56
But I like in Revenge of the Sith when they start to ask,
21:59
only one who to asked Anakin to start spying on the emperor.
22:04
It's like, you see how uncomfortable I'll be one is
22:07
with it. He still, he does it but he
22:09
really doesn't like it. Yeah, and It's because it's
22:14
counterintuitive to the way he leads.
22:17
You know, he still does it because he's a subordinate but
22:20
he I'm glad that they showed that moment where he says, the
22:24
council is asking you. You can tell he hates to even
22:27
say it out loud right at scene, right?
22:30
It goes against what he's already established with Anakin,
22:33
which is it's already difficult between them because there is a
22:37
little bit of there's a lack of trust on Anakin side only
22:41
because he's got pal. Patina in the other ear, you
22:44
know. Yeah, and Obi-Wan doesn't want
22:47
to do anything to further distance themselves and he needs
22:51
to maintain that trust in order to have Anakin's full by in.
22:55
You got to have buy-in for the people around you, in order to
22:59
lead them and the further, the more doubt that creeps into
23:02
Anakin's mind, the, the more distant they become and then
23:05
Anakin's able to completely disconnect from Obi-Wan and it
23:09
was not anything that Obi-Wan was doing What we've talked
23:13
about, like, the events leading up to Revenge of the Sith.
23:17
Basically is like, cutting off all of Obi-Wan's lines of
23:22
retreat when it comes to like, thinking for yourself a little
23:25
bit. You know, it's like stettin and
23:28
then Ahsoka and now the council and it's kind of like the more
23:34
opportunity he has to say this isn't right.
23:38
We shouldn't do this and he doesn't take that opportunity.
23:41
He becomes less and less able to do that.
23:44
So by the time Revenge of the Sith comes around, it's almost
23:47
like he has lost his own Compass at that point.
23:52
And said, I think it's understandable why he doesn't
23:57
stand up for Anakin because he's his like, so, in the mix, right?
24:02
And is, it's probably just trying to do the right thing.
24:04
And the right thing is what he knows, you know, the council and
24:07
the code. And because there's been so much
24:09
turmoil and his life especially Since Lee, right?
24:13
You know, but how different could things have been?
24:16
If he finally put his foot down it's just like this isn't right?
24:20
I'm not going to ask my best friend to do this.
24:23
Yes, I don't know where that would have gone.
24:25
That's a good question. What if he had put his foot down
24:27
when they have listened to him? Or would they just kicked him
24:30
off the council? Yeah, I mean for all we know it
24:33
would have isolated them Anakin and Obi-Wan together as
24:36
Outsiders then. Yeah, I don't that's an
24:39
interesting. I never thought of that.
24:41
What would have happened if Obi-Wan would have put his foot
24:44
down? Huh, a new episode coming coming
24:48
sentence. I guess we just have all the
24:54
instances where he could have put his foot down, but didn't
24:57
that's. That is the title of the next
24:59
episode or or the future episode.
25:02
Yeah, all the times he could have put his foot down and then
25:07
God, okay, so let me ask you this question.
25:12
This is not a trick question, just your honest answer.
25:16
Okay. Would you follow Anakin No, why
25:23
the reason is specially comes in point rain.
25:27
So as Point rain is the reason I would follow Obi-Wan, it's the
25:31
exact reason I wouldn't follow Anakin.
25:33
Yes to see him on the battlefield with Ahsoka,
25:36
bickering, and fighting. Yes.
25:38
Even if it's funny. Makes me feel like and you can
25:43
see Rex looking at them while they're doing is kind of like
25:45
Queen Focus here folks. Well I think a little bit.
25:50
Alright even said that right. Yes she did and as a consumer
25:57
watching the show, I loved it. If I would say his Soldier I'd
26:00
be like the fuck dude. Like can we please give me
26:03
serious for a minute? Like can we get some guidance
26:06
here? Which I think he grows into a
26:09
little more because Rex. Yes.
26:10
It surely does trust him and yeah, those 500 first follow
26:15
him. But I would also hesitate
26:19
because of what we know, he's not organized.
26:25
He often looks to an Obi-Wan You know, as he's still in, if
26:31
you're thinking of like seasons one through three maybe you know
26:34
he's still kind of leaning on, it will be one for answers and
26:36
stuff but he's also supposed to be teaching Ahsoka and one of
26:40
the things is lead by example and Ahsoka picked up a little
26:43
bit of it, the good and the bad. Yeah but he's still a little too
26:50
inconsistent for me to be like, Obi-Wan, you know.
26:54
Yeah. You know and that's comforting
26:57
especially if you're Running into a highly volatile
27:01
situation, you know, I want somebody like Obi-Wan who's cool
27:05
and has a plan and follows it and is going to, you know, make
27:09
sure everyone knows what they're doing where they're going
27:11
excetera and Anakin is just kind of like, let's go, you know.
27:15
Yeah. And it's one thing for him to
27:16
risk himself and be courageous. It's another thing for you to
27:20
risk the lives of other people, depending on you.
27:23
And I think, I think Anakin kind of learns as of Sokka makes
27:28
mistakes. Ex.
27:29
Yes. I feel like we see when she
27:33
leaves her Squadron in and they all get killed.
27:35
Hmm. And then there's another example
27:38
when and this is what she's very young.
27:39
And there's the other time. Where is that holocron Heist
27:44
when CAD Bane? She goes running up to CAD Bane
27:47
and he takes her hostage, and Anakin to shouting Ahsoka.
27:51
It's a trap, but the doors closed before and it's like
27:54
exactly what Obi-Wan has men shouting.
27:56
It Anakin Anakin Yep. You know, it's like every
28:03
parents blessing, / curse that they hope their children has a
28:07
child just like them. You know that's how and as
28:13
that's probably season 1 season 2 and as they get into the
28:16
deeper Seasons, you start to see Anakin's leadership mature and
28:21
ahsoka's Leadership mature as well.
28:24
And I definitely would not feel. Safe, with a leader.
28:31
Who's kind of getting their legs under them.
28:35
You know, it's like I want your legs under you before you start
28:38
leading me anywhere, right? I don't want you to be learning
28:41
on the job if my life is in danger.
28:43
So I think Anakin is an effective leader especially
28:48
later but in the earlier Seasons I would not want to be assigned
28:52
to him. I'd be quite nervous.
28:54
Actually, it points to in fact, His growth points to Obi-Wan's
29:01
style of leadership. Hmm.
29:03
He made it a safe place. He promoted.
29:06
Anakin's failures to like, look, you can learn from this, just
29:10
keep going, keep trying Etc. And I think him with Ahsoka,
29:14
meaning Anakin and Ahsoka, they kind of grew up together at
29:18
different stages. They were both very young, but
29:22
Anakin was older than her, of course.
29:23
But yeah, they were They were both kind of making their way
29:28
and learning together which is they were both under Obi-Wan.
29:31
And you always see we set in a previous episode Ahsoka turned
29:37
to Obi-Wan more than she did Anakin because he was able to.
29:43
He he had like a quiet inspiration, I would say mmm,
29:47
you know and he's allowed inspiration Inspire what I'm not
29:52
sure fill in the blank but Obi-Wan I had that trust
29:56
established and was able to communicate with Ahsoka in a way
30:00
that she felt safe to ask questions.
30:03
She felt safe to make mistakes and that I think is a reflection
30:09
of where she ends up. We just talked about this in
30:12
the, in the Obi-Wan and Ahsoka episode.
30:14
Yeah, all of that led to a Soca maturing in a way that Anakin
30:18
never could because Anakin was kind of still very egocentric,
30:22
and you got to let go of that in order to be a really good.
30:25
Leader. Otherwise then you end up ruling
30:27
with fear because the ego is a whole other episode.
30:31
That's a whole nother thing. Yeah, I was going to say, does
30:35
he even stand a chance? Because are you born with ego?
30:38
I mean, I'm sure he goes probably something that's more
30:40
learned socially as you grow, but once you have like a really
30:44
strong ego, it takes something really humiliating.
30:47
I think. Yeah, generally to break you of
30:48
that. So I mean it's very hard to
30:52
remove a strong ego and I mean, ego and sense of like Pride, not
30:57
in a sense of like the ad versus the right.
30:59
Right right. Right.
31:00
And that I think that's essentially Anakin's problem,
31:03
right? Because have you ever heard of
31:05
the servant leader? Mmm.
31:08
It's it's a way of being a servant to the others in your
31:12
group that makes you a good leader.
31:15
You serve them in whatever way possible and I don't know that
31:20
Anakin ever served anyone other than his own fears.
31:24
Mmm. That's a really interesting
31:27
point. We know that he cares about Rex
31:30
and his sofa and Obi-Wan, and he's honest with them, he
31:34
communicates to them. Yeah.
31:37
But his his bottom line was always making sure he didn't
31:40
lose anybody and that's very selfish.
31:43
There's a weight. You don't want to have losses in
31:46
War, of course. Yeah.
31:48
But if you think of the way that Obi-Wan and Anakin handle that,
31:52
there's a huge difference. Yeah.
31:55
Such a good point. That's so interesting to think
31:57
about. And I you were saying earlier,
32:00
the Anakin is like loud and over one is quiet and it made me
32:03
think of attack of the Clones. There's the scene where this is
32:09
so great because it's the scene where they're protecting Padme
32:12
at night. Yeah.
32:13
No. Be one like jumps through the
32:15
window and anacott but like there's this whole sequence
32:21
right after that of Anakin gets a speeder and open ones.
32:25
Always on the move or whatever. The hell it is, he's irritated
32:28
by Anakin acting really Brash and jumping off the speeder and
32:33
doing all this crazy shit. They both end up at the same
32:36
place. At the same time, even though
32:38
one was chaotic and one took his time.
32:41
Yes. And then ultimately Obi-Wan is
32:44
the one who very calmly has a drink at the bar and foils the
32:48
Assassin attempt, you know, at the same time, it's all this
32:51
wasted energy on Anakin's part. Yes, exactly.
32:55
Actually, it's like, they achieved, they reach the same
32:57
point, but Obi-Wan has learned that you don't have to expend
33:01
all this fucking energy, emotional and physical.
33:05
Yes, to get to the end point and I think that is where you are
33:09
much more effective leader because not only do you preserve
33:13
your own energy, you can help your unit preserve its energy as
33:17
well. And I think and getting as a lot
33:22
of trouble he wants to just run in all the I'm yeah.
33:26
And I mean you can't hate him for that.
33:29
He wants to save people. He wants to do good, right.
33:32
It comes from a good place. Yes.
33:34
But the manner in which it's it's played out.
33:39
Often has a few missteps here and there, I really think he
33:46
shines in the kadavo arc because it's on him too.
33:50
Yeah, make sure all of them come together thing is taken care of,
33:53
and he's battling. His own personal feelings about,
33:57
you know, slavery and all this stuff.
34:00
So you have mirach, really forces him to kind of look at
34:05
that selflessness quote-unquote, and she's offering him, you
34:10
know, I will set your friends free, you just have to agree to
34:13
be my slave and that's it's like, it makes this Paradox and
34:17
his mind that he cannot accept either, you know, it was just,
34:22
but then he does. Ultimately, I mean, I, Going to
34:25
say he finds a way but maybe he like if Dooku had never shown up
34:28
who knows what how would that would have played out right?
34:31
True but it's interesting that Arc is so interesting because
34:36
it's such a challenge to him. Yeah, but he does Shine the
34:40
whole time. Yeah.
34:41
But he also that's where it when we say we want to do like a Red
34:44
Flag episode. Yeah Scott, yeah.
34:45
So do many red flags in that case.
34:49
God bless him. He had all the makings, you
34:51
know. Yeah.
34:52
Of what, you know. Luke becomes what Anakin could
34:57
have been if Anakin would have just shoved Anakin down, you
35:01
don't even be more. Luke is the is the T-shirt I
35:05
would make in this instance, just be more Loom, you know?
35:12
I'd be remiss if we didn't talk about the quiet leaders, which
35:16
are I categorized as Padme and Hera Oh yeah, mmm, two totally
35:23
different women. Okay two.
35:27
Totally different positions. But I would follow both of them
35:34
because they especially hair because hair is kind of in the
35:39
action, a little more and this is not a discredit to Padme.
35:42
She just different time. Different position.
35:45
Hair is in the mud with her people.
35:47
Hmm. And they follow her.
35:50
They trust her, she makes hard decisions and timely decisions.
35:55
If she's, you know, in the ship and she has to do something,
35:57
she's asking people, we got to get in there, we got him.
36:00
Make it, you know, this that the other thing she knows there's
36:02
risk and she pushes forward anyway.
36:06
But not at the potential of hurting anyone in her in her
36:09
family. The the ghost crew.
36:12
Yeah, and they respect her for it.
36:15
And she goes on to lead larger groups and become more involved
36:23
in the rebellion and she makes it all the way to the end, and
36:26
she has that skill, and I don't know where it comes from, of,
36:32
just the right amount of Street. Smarts and just the right amount
36:35
of Apathy to make her deadly and dangerous, but a damn good
36:44
leader. Like, she's a dangerous.
36:46
I almost said human. She's a dangerous woman because
36:50
she's got heart and mind and soul.
36:54
All working at the same time in like this delicate balance, that
36:59
allows everyone to respect her to follow her, to never
37:02
questioned her, she's like the top up there with Leia to me,
37:07
but she she has this. I don't know if you've seen the
37:10
bad batch episodes that show her as a child, not yet.
37:14
Sorry, everyone. They're interesting because you
37:18
kind of start to see that making their sure her parents are
37:22
people of power on ryloth but the Empire's there and so she's
37:27
watching this Injustice and she has an uncle who's like kind of
37:32
part of the underground. They're doing like arms runs
37:34
where they try and like, you know, bye.
37:36
Weapons to arm the rebels still while the Empire's there.
37:40
And she starts to see consequences of those decisions
37:45
and how they can affect her family and how they can affect
37:47
her population as a whole. And it's really cool to see how
37:53
what we've said in the past, are you going to let it break you or
37:56
you going to let it make you stronger?
37:58
Absolutely comes away so much stronger.
38:00
She's such a great character. God, I love her so much.
38:04
She and padmé share. The teamwork aspect because I
38:08
don't think Padme ever did anything self selfishly.
38:12
I don't know if she was possibly like capable.
38:16
Even from a young age, again, from a young age, these
38:20
individuals, they're fully competent.
38:24
They have the trust of people, they're effective communicators.
38:27
They everyone around them knows what they need to do and we'll
38:31
follow the orders or or instructions of their leader.
38:36
Right. And they motivate they Inspire,
38:38
Padme inspired Ahsoka so much. Yeah.
38:43
And Hera inspired everyone. Including Chopper is a little
38:49
Hellion that won't listen to anybody.
38:50
He is his own person, okay? He has his own Droid.
38:54
He'll listen to her, he'll listen to her, why trust, right?
38:59
Mmm. And he understands her
39:01
motivations. Isn't that it padme's?
39:04
Motivation was the same. As Harris is the same as Leia's
39:08
is the same as mon mothma. I know they're all female, but
39:10
I'm going somewhere with this the same as Luke.
39:12
The same, as Obi-Wan is to make sure the people around them.
39:16
They were, they had a job to do. They had trust in the people
39:21
that were around them and they had to make decisions to get the
39:24
job done with as little loss as possible.
39:28
If they could Inspire someone on the way bonus.
39:32
Yeah. Which what, how wouldn't you
39:34
inspire someone by doing all those other things, having trust
39:38
in large amounts of people fighting for what's right?
39:40
Your intentions are centered in a good wholesome, you know.
39:45
They're just trying to do things.
39:47
They're trying to give the rights to the clones.
39:48
They're trying to have Have the, you know, these poor people on
39:52
the poor civilizations on planets that are being just
39:54
wiped out by the Empire, you know, all these things all the
39:58
Discrimination they're just they're fighting for basic human
40:02
rights. Or alien rights it's so it's so
40:08
hard. Yeah.
40:09
This the rights of the of the Commonwealth I'll say and
40:16
they're motivated, they're motivating.
40:18
Others to do the same mon mothma motivated, how many people
40:22
leading what she needed to do and I don't even think we've
40:24
seen the whole of it yet. We're getting that net and or I
40:27
don't know. I wonder what is gonna be.
40:30
That that brain'll Catalyst. Yeah.
40:34
Yeah, that we're she becomes the mon mothma that everyone follows
40:38
and Revere's. I suspect it's going to be like
40:40
a phoenix moment where, like her life gets burned to the ground
40:43
and yams bag like fucking stronger, but every single, one
40:48
of these people have climbed out of the darkness and have gone on
40:53
to do great things, Inspire others, to do, great things.
40:56
And if I could do that in my life, just once cool clocks
41:02
tickin But you know, I have so many people on this list and we
41:11
don't have the time but who are your like top leaders and that
41:16
you would follow the ones that you are worse.
41:19
Yeah. Wholesale in Star Wars.
41:22
Honestly, it would be Leia and Obi-Wan for sure, but then I
41:27
would follow jyn erso. I didn't even holy shit.
41:32
Can we talk about Jin? Yes, Jin my God.
41:38
Okay, she has that she was so unsure of herself.
41:42
I have to get my life together. In order to talk about maybe you
41:45
should talk about her because you're the Jinn expert here.
41:47
You're the Jinn. Ologist she I don't think she
41:53
thought she could be a leader until she became one.
41:56
Yes, I think that's accurate. She was in prison for how many
42:00
fucking years and she went on to lead the very first like, what
42:08
is it? Like, the first everything that
42:10
started? The downfall of the Empire.
42:13
Yeah. I mean it was almost like a
42:16
pirate crew, right? The decided to trust her.
42:19
It was basically like the trust that she established with Cassie
42:24
and cheering bass boat ek2, even every single one of them.
42:30
Yeah. Like to instill trust even
42:33
accidentally just by incidentally okay you know
42:38
because of the way she is under pressure and the way she doesn't
42:42
even know her own value. Ya think?
42:45
That's, that's why she's so good because, you know, she doesn't
42:50
see her own value. But Cassie and does.
42:52
Yeah. And that's what makes him so
42:54
good. Exactly.
42:56
Like, he's what you mentioned earlier, seeing other people's
42:59
strengths and allowing them to use their strengths and they
43:03
talked about it a little bit more in the novelization that he
43:05
sees this thing like burning in her and she's like, don't come
43:09
to me for absolution. Like I can't do that for you and
43:12
it's not that he needs someone to follow because Has he he does
43:16
need Absolution because he's done terrible things.
43:19
But what he really wants to do is finally do something that's
43:23
actually good. That's gonna do some fucking
43:26
good and she is the fire that can.
43:30
She's the spark that starts to fire, you know?
43:33
Yes and yes, in the people that he brings with on the thus
43:36
caref, you know, Mission. Yeah.
43:40
Like all those people are there because they know her
43:44
intentions. Shin again, the real reason she
43:47
wants to go. It's not Glory, it's not, you
43:50
know, self-righteous it's because if we don't stop it,
43:54
everyone else suffers. And it doesn't really matter
43:57
what I need. You know, at this point.
44:00
Yeah. And I think she had kind of seen
44:03
the futility by this point, you know, like that meeting where
44:07
they're all there and everyone's like, we're just going to
44:09
surrender. Yep.
44:10
She's already seen the blood on the ground, you know, from what
44:14
the The not just the Death Star what it can do.
44:17
But also watching her father died and watching cheer it and
44:20
Bay's, lose him and Bode for that.
44:22
But yeah, Jetta also like I think it's pretty amazing that a
44:27
person that now has like nothing left to lose steps up and
44:32
decides to do something for the greater good as opposed to
44:35
cowering away and slinking off to some part of the, you know,
44:39
the Galaxy where maybe I can live a few more years before the
44:42
Empire catches up to me kind of thing.
44:44
She always We tried that and it didn't work.
44:46
She's been on the other side, she already knows what doesn't
44:49
work. So she has that knowledge that
44:54
like we are in a position where we act or we die.
44:57
And yeah unfortunately they did both but in doing so they
45:03
inspired so many others. It was not in vain.
45:08
Yeah. But Jin is one hell of a you.
45:10
I would go. I would follow her.
45:12
I would follow her hands down. He's down and I think by that
45:17
times, there's a line in the book which I think is kind of
45:20
interesting that I think they cut out of the movie.
45:23
It's when they're there on the little, I don't know.
45:26
It's like a conveyor belt that takes them from The Landing Pad
45:29
into the Citadel. Yeah.
45:31
And in there, she's acting all antsy and Cassie ins like what's
45:35
wrong with you? Like what is it?
45:38
And she says something like, she's afraid of how she's going
45:42
to be once. She's she becomes afraid in.
45:45
Citadel like once enough pressure is put on her.
45:48
In the past she would have run and Cassius like you're going to
45:52
do fine, like just relax. You'll be fine.
45:54
And I like that about her character because she's
45:58
realizing she doesn't have to be that anymore.
46:03
Yeah, you know. Yeah.
46:04
It's it's a it's that's the kind of moment where it's like, man I
46:09
wish I could be that strong and find that string on myself.
46:13
So yeah, I love I love her so much just wish I could take like
46:18
a handful of traits from all of these amazing characters.
46:23
Yeah. And like even do just one of
46:25
them a day but we all have the ability to do that because of
46:30
Jinn can come for where she came from or Leia can come where, she
46:34
from where she came from Obi-Wan name, any of the people we
46:39
talked about except for Palpatine?
46:43
He's just, he's just Authoritative dick or pong
46:47
Krell? Leave him out of this, he's not
46:48
even allowed in the converse. We should do an episode about
46:52
the opposite side of this like, well let's do it.
46:55
Yeah, because the authoritarian bosses versus leaders.
47:00
There's leaders. Yeah.
47:02
And then there's bosses managers dictators Star Wars managers.
47:09
Yeah. In the great Office of the
47:13
Galaxy. Gonna say it's like office
47:15
space. Hey Vader.
47:17
What's happening? What's happening?
47:19
I'm gonna need you to get a Starship.
47:23
This Saturday, we're putting a cover on the pts reports or
47:28
whatever the hell that is TPS the GPS.
47:32
Thank you. Thank you.
47:33
Thank you. Who would be Milton with the
47:34
stapler? Have you seen my stapler?
47:38
I'm sorry. I politely requested to listen
47:40
to my radio edit. Basically will volcanic I just
47:51
like saying it's my death star, my death star and they just keep
47:54
telling him to put his desk in the basement.
48:01
Okay, we're going to end this episode with a preview of what
48:06
Star Wars bosses look like, and it's coming up next time in the
48:10
future will cover Star Wars bosses, and we'll do it in the
48:15
form of office space. If you haven't seen the movie,
48:20
we're sorry. Yeah, it's a good one.
48:23
The whole movie is a meme, Our question to you, this week is
48:35
pretty obvious. If you were to follow anyone and
48:39
make them your leader in Star Wars, who would it be and why?
48:45
Join us next week. We are going to do some more 0,
48:48
b 1 because we really could never get enough ob1 on the
48:52
show. Not on this show.
48:54
Nope. We're gonna talk about the
48:57
Mustafar duel from Revenge of the Sith.
49:00
We're gonna analyze it, break it down, gush about it, cry about
49:05
it, I'm sure. And then as it is like a second
49:09
part to that in The Following episode, we're going to talk
49:11
about the Kenobi duel. So does back here next week to
49:18
talk about, Mustafar Thank you so much for joining us here on
49:23
the most things Kenobi podcast. We appreciate every single one
49:26
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49:29
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49:32
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49:53
May the force be with you always.