Latest / Millennial Mustard Seed / S6 255. Rod and Pete - Rethinking Eternal Security, part 6

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S6 255. Rod and Pete - Rethinking Eternal Security, part 6 · Millennial Mustard Seed

0:24
Welcome back everybody to another mini episode.
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I'm here with Rod Smith from the Millennial Mustard Seed podcast.
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Hey, Rod. How's it going, Pete?
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It's going well. And this one, we decided we are
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going to try to bookend this series, but we've got a decent
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bit of ground to cover. And So what I think we're going
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to try to do is just blaze through all of the stuff that we
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have. And whether that makes two or
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three mini episodes, we're just going to keep the microphone
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rolling and split it as it makes sense to split it.
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And then when we get done with this, put these all together
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with the previous five minis and call it one large series in one
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episode as a bonus episode on rethinking eternal security.
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So lot to cover, but we prayed. The words are going to be salt,
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right, Rod? Shout out to your book title.
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And yeah, so looking over the things that we have yet to
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cover, we did not get into all of the verses that seem to point
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to why the believer cannot lose their salvation.
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And I want to lift up my buddy Kevin Thompson over at Beyond
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the Fundamentals, and one of his free files that you can get at
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his website of the same name has an Eternal security 3 or 4 page
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PDF with a lot of good verse references.
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And kind of the premise that I felt like God prompted me to
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start this series with Rod was the idea that all of these
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verses can still be true. And yet someone who can someone
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can profess faith and yet not enter heaven.
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How is that possible if all of these promises for the believer
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are true? How can someone not enter heaven
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if they're a believer? Well, what if they don't stay a
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believer? These are reasons why the
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believer cannot lose salvation. But in my opinion and please,
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prayerfully and scripturally you guys out there, check this.
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I'm not teaching something that I think is 100% factual,
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correct. I want you to check this and be
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a good Berean. The believer cannot lose
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salvation, but any person can. What does that mean?
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It's kind of like an indestructible bus on its way to
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heaven. We have a guaranteed destination
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as long as we're on that bus, but in this life we still have a
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choice to jump off or stay on. If you stop having the faith,
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which is the means of appropriating the grace of
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salvation, then you stop having the grace.
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One of the most famous verses comes from Ephesians 2.
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I'm sure all you guys are familiar with it. 2 Verse 8.
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For by grace you have been saved through faith and this is not
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your own doing. What's the this the saving?
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The saving is God's doing and how does he manifest it?
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What is the means of appropriating that grace through
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faith? And Rod, you asked me earlier,
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when we look at through what to meet, what do we mean do it?
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Do we mean like I, I just walked through a crowd?
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No, it means by means of right. I'll pass it to you for a second
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just to just to comment on that because I that is a key point of
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what that that through means. It's kind of like a plug and a
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cord, and that plug and cord is plugged into the power source.
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Yeah. I mean, my critical thinking
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about that verse arise that question, you know, from outside
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of the box kind of looking in and trying to understand, well,
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how would the younger me, I've wrestled with that versus how I
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view it now? And how does my neighbor see
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that regardless of where they're at and their education of the
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Bible or relationship or anything, right?
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Like how are people really resonating with what they're
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reading when they're trying to understand where where you're
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at, where's your eternal security at right.
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And so that question obviously, as you highlighted, was my way
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of kind of pointing out, are we leaving anything off the table
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with just glancing at that scripturally brushing the the
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top of your book off and flipping through?
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Are we really getting to the crux of the issue?
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And So what I walked away from our pre air conversation with
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that question that you you brought up a minute ago that I
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asked, what does it mean to go through?
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Let's define that. And it's by means of which means
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what has been denoted and created is the only way to
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access it. So it's, it's God's created gift
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to us. It's the narrow plank that they
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can feel like a plank sometimes that you're working on.
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And and there's no other way. Only a thief would take a
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different way. So I'll pass it back to you as
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just kind of a brief comment on that was a really good part that
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we maybe we should have captured.
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Unfortunately that one didn't get on the mic, but we tried to
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bring in some justice here. Yeah, yeah.
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And that's the key thing. I know in in some circles people
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can accuse others of saying, well, if the faith is yours,
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then that's a work and now you're taking credit for
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salvation. Well, I've said this many times
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when it comes to sort of that Gnostic determinism of, you
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know, the idea of, of being saved because you're elect.
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If I'm in a 50 foot hole and I've got a 5 foot rope, I can't
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get out. But if somebody comes along with
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a 50 foot rope and they throw it down and once I get to the top,
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I don't pat myself on the back and say, boy, was I smart to
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grab that rope. No, I think the guy for the
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rope, the rope was the means. It was through that rope that I
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was saved. The person at the top gets all
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the credit. And so we give we give God all
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the credit for our salvation, but he has made a way that
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narrow way, which is through faith.
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And it to me, it's really like that a power cord plugged into a
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wall, you know, keep yourself plugged in, abide in me.
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We're going to look at that, that verse talking about abiding
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in me. The means of appropriating that
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grace is through faith. So eternal security is
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absolutely true in the sense that God is not going to reject
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us as long as we have faith in Him.
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We are. We are declaring our allegiance
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to Him. We are saying we are loyal to
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Him. Ups and downs, yes.
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Sin abounds, yes. But rejecting Him, No.
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No, we are confessing Him before men and He will confess us
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before His Father. So let's look at some of these
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eternal security so-called proof texts and see how all of these
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things can be true for the believer but are conditional
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upon faith. And again, they are for the
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believer. If someone ceases to be a
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believer, then these promises are no longer for them, they are
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for the believer. Just like in Ephesians, Paul
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says predestined to be conformed to his image.
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We are on that bus and the destination of the believer is
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to be sanctified. So, Rod, do you want to just go
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through a few of these verses that we have, especially the
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ones that are maybe highlighted or in bold, and I'll jump in
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with a few of them that I think are are powerful.
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The believers in Christ it talks about Romans 8 one first
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Corinthians 130 and many other verses and the believers known
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knows Christ that's second Timothy 219 John 17 three the
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believer is part of the body of Christ.
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This is reference many places First Corinthians 1212 through
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13, Ephesians 412. I mean just thinking about the
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body of Christ, all of those members being unified and God
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giving us the subscription of like we were in him, he's in US,
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He's it's made by him and for him Jesus is the eternal being.
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John 858 says Revelation 1/8. Nothing can separate the
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believer from the love of God. Romans 838 through 39 says,
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which means that the believer will never be subject to God's
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wrath. The believer's life is
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everlasting. John 316 and 1st John 513 talk
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about and the believers chosen and this is one that we know.
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There's certain denominational preferences out there that will
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run with this isolated concept and let it supersede all the
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other Scriptures. I think those of you may kind of
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know what I'm talking about. I'm not going to bash them, but
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what we will do is acknowledge that there's reverence to
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Ephesians 1/4 and 2nd Thessalonians 213.
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We have so much favor and acceptance in Christ.
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You know, the believers called the elect according to the
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foreknowledge of God in first Peter one and two and the verses
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go on and on. I just skimmed through a couple
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to give you guys that reference point to, you know, to start
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looking. This is in a eternal security
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perspective in him there. There's nothing we can do
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outside of it ourselves. There's nothing we bring to the
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table there. There is no righteousness of our
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own. You know, before I pass it back
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to you, Pete, I am triggered about Revelation the sheep and
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the goat nations, which Dan Deval wrote a really good book
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on that that I've interviewed him on.
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And we might have talked about this before.
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So forgive me if I'm repeating myself minutely, but the
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separation is based on the goats are saying we did this.
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We cast out demons in your name. We healed the sick.
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And then there's these sheeps that are like, when did I do
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something, Lord, like I, I've been trembling and I, I kept
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getting it wrong. I, I didn't always understand.
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And so I mean, I pass it back to you with the concept of it
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either is from him, through him, by him, or it's nothing of
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ourselves. That's right clear.
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I'll add a few more from the list here from Kevin Thompson's
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PDF. Excellent list.
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There is no condemnation for the believer.
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Romans 8 one First Thessalonians 59 and 10.
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The believer has the righteousness of Christ. 2nd
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Corinthians 521. The believer is a Son of God.
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John 112 Galatians 4-5 and six. The believer is secured by God's
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greatness and knowledge despite serious doubts of the heart.
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First, John 319 through 21. Let that be an assurance for so
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much of you guys out there. And I know people in my family
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grew up this way too. Where you'll hear this message
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all the only thing good about you is God and otherwise you're
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just a wretched Sinner. You're an awful worm, you know,
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and and God had to practically plug his nose to build like a
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stinky diaper to pick you up out of your sin.
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And that is not how he sees you before or after salvation.
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You know, we're made in his image.
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But even more so loved is the believer who now has the
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righteousness of his very own Son on us.
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But even before. I mean, yeah, that kind of
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language takes the truth of the ugliness of sin and makes us
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pushed down to the dirt to try to make God look more glorified.
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I, I don't think God would ever want to push us down to get more
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glory for himself. He doesn't act like that.
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But that's just a little bit of a sidebar.
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So we see all these verses about eternal security and this is God
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holding on to us, right? This is to assure us that having
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faith in him and we don't have time to unpack what that looks
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like believing in him. The difference between even
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belief and faith. You know belief comes from
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beloved that when we believe on Christ it we're saying he's our
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beloved. We treasure him and we do.
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Our actions follow, you know, one that we have love for,
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right? But even with that in mind, the
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difference between intellectual belief only, which is where the
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Scripture says even the demons believe in God and shudder,
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right? The devil believes in God, he's
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not going to heaven, right? So it's not mere intellectual
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ascent, but that's I think for you guys to continue to press in
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and understand what does it mean to be connected to God through
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faith? As long as you are doing that
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and it's not works, then you're saved and you remain saved and
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God's not kicking you out. That part is absolutely secure,
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but it's conditional upon faith. You got to keep the plug in.
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If you cease to be a believer, you forfeit those promises.
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It's kind of like if my team is heading to the playoffs, we get
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through the playoffs, we're headed to the championship, and
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for whatever reason, I decide to quit the team.
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My team goes to the championship, wins the game,
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gets the trophy, gets the rings. I'm not getting one because I
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quit the team before the game, right?
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So all the promises that God has is when we stay on the team.
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And I'm not about to say you have to do a minimum amount of
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works to get there because that's workspace salvation.
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But if you have none, Book of James might say, do you actually
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have faith? I think that's something worth
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wrestling with. Paul also says test yourself to
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see if you are in the faith. We ought to test ourselves, hold
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ourselves up to Scripture Rod right and go, am I in alignment
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with this? Yeah, I mean maintenance.
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There's no piece of equipment that you'll just run and not
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give its due maintenance. Even your body can only handle
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so much before you need to sleep.
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Rehydrate intermittent fast the same as it is with our walk with
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the Lord. That's why the Sabbath's are
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commanded. It's in the Big 10.
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It's not a recommendation. And so we should be checking our
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faith. And just like the word says, you
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know a man who looks into the mirror and doesn't remember who
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he is. Well, when we look into the Word
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of God, we should see him in US through a long form development
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in relationship where it's just like Paul said, he's like, who
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can save me from this wretched flesh?
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Isn't that interesting how he isolates the flesh out of his
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trifold nature? You know, he's like, who can
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save me from this wretched flesh, right?
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I go to do the thing which I, you know, wish not to do.
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I end up doing that right? And it's not a license to sin,
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but it is the reality that there's a deeper part of us that
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resonates with who the Spirit of God is and that we're willing
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and and submitted to him, moving and working through.
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It's not many times the image of the flesh that God will use to
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do miraculous things. It's sometimes it's the psyche
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of the man. Sometimes it's the act of simple
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generosity, compassion, humbling yourself.
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Just as the word says. If you want to turn away wrath,
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give a soft answer, takes your tongue and your heart and your
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mind to be in union to do that. That this is the deeper part of
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us that I believe accepts and presses into the Lord and holds
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on and we go through the way that He is made.
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Just as you mentioned earlier, Pete, you're climbing out of the
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well. You came equipped with A5 foot
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rope in a 20 foot well. So everything you brought to the
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table, it ain't working. But when he's in us, there
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should be fruit. And we're always going to have a
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bad day. All right, If you cut somebody
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off in traffic 5 minutes ago as you're listening to this driving
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your car and you thought why I ought to, it's the flesh.
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Don't be so hard on yourself, but what me and Peter are really
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trying to do here is, is bring the understanding and the
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questioning forward. We want to get you guys to think
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about this because I know what it feels like for somebody to
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not get me to critical think to just sit down, shut up, be a
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good little boy and nod your head when I speak that that's
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been enough. We've had enough of that.
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It's really time for us to open the can of worms of have we
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wrestled with this, dealt with it and considered in the deep
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inner part of us. And that's exactly what we're
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doing right here. You know, Pete, I'm going to
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pass it back to you and where we go from here, You know, and and
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the climax that has already been built over this however many
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parts series, we're getting to a scriptural dominance, right?
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Like the scripture has the final say.
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It's unarguable. We just need to make sure that
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we're in agreement.