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50 Cents New Scripted Show About Gilgo Beach Killer Rex Heuermann to Shine Light on Even More Murder Victims? · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. I have always believed that
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: the Long Island serial killer, also called the Gilgo Beach Killer,
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: Rex Hureman, has murdered many more women than the ones
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: he owned up to in court. Will fifty cents new
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: scripted show about Rex Hureman put more spotlight on Hureman
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: and hopefully discover his other victims. I'm Nancy Grace. This
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for being
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: with us in the last days we learned fifty cent
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: producing a scripted show about the Gilgo Beach Killer Long
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: Island serial killer Rex Hureman, But many of us believe
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: Hureman is also responsible for many other murders. In fact,
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: many people believe that Rex Huerman, the Long e On
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: serial killer, is also the Manerville Butcher. Early in the investigation,
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: speculation arose connecting Hureman to other dismemberment cases on Long Island,
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: specifically the Man Butcher, because some of those victims were
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: found dismembered and wrapped in burlap. How many serial killers
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: can there be in Long Island that kill the victim,
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: dismember the victim, and wrap them in similar burlap. I
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: think there are more victims out there.
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: What do we know?
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: We now understand why the Las Vegas victims are now
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: potential victims of the Long Island serial Killer. What is
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: the connection? And how many more dead bodies can be
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: chalked up to one man? Also rex Hureman, the Long
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: Island serial killer suspect refuses to give DNA. Wonder why
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: but a judge swoops in and demands you will give
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: DNA rex Hureman, But let's just start at the beginning.
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: Take a listen, our friends at News.
• 2:15
  Speaker 3: Twelve twenty years since a gravel truck driver made a
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  Speaker 3: grusome discovery along the West coast in this grassy, deserted
• 2:22
  Speaker 3: area outside Las Vegas.
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  Speaker 1: That she just was thrown like a piece of trash
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  Speaker 1: in the desert you first heard. It's unbelievable.
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  Speaker 3: It feels like a lifetime movie. The discarded body belonged
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  Speaker 3: to a young teenage sex worker originally from New Jersey
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  Speaker 3: named Victoria Kamara.
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: With me an all star panel to make sense of
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  Speaker 1: what we know right now, including a woman that has
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  Speaker 1: seemingly connected the dots between the Long Island serial killer
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: and potential suspects in Vegas, and that would be Tara
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: Rosenbloom joining us from News twelve Long Island. But first
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: I want to go to a special guest joining me,
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  Speaker 1: Glen Dean Grant. You may not have her of her,
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: but you will remember her name after you hear what
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: she's got to say. Glendane is the mother of a
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  Speaker 1: twenty year old young girl trafficked into sex work in Vegas,
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  Speaker 1: missing since two thousand and six. She is the founder
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  Speaker 1: of math m at H Mothers Against Trafficking Humans. Miss Grant,
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  Speaker 1: thank you for being with us.
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  Speaker 4: Oh, I appreciate you having me on, Nancy, I appreciate
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  Speaker 4: it a lot.
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  Speaker 1: You know, it actually hurts me to hear you thank
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  Speaker 1: me after all you have been through. You know, I
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  Speaker 1: have a daughter and a son. They're twins and not
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  Speaker 1: much younger than your daughter when she was sex trafficked
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  Speaker 1: in Vegas. I want to hear your reaction to the
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: potential link between the Long Island serial killer and bodies
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  Speaker 1: of young sex workers found in your area.
• 4:02
  Speaker 4: Oh well, it's it's just wells a scout off again.
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  Speaker 4: It gets us going again, hopeful that there might be answers,
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  Speaker 4: praying that Jesse has found. You know, at this point,
• 4:18
  Speaker 4: you know, having her missing for seventeen and a half years.
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  Speaker 4: You know, I bounced back and forth from you know,
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  Speaker 4: maybe she's still alive, to you know, you kind of
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  Speaker 4: hope she's not after all this time, if it's you know,
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  Speaker 4: horrible things are happening to her, and then back to
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  Speaker 4: you know, I just don't feel that she's gone in
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  Speaker 4: my mother heart to not seeing any other options. So
• 4:42
  Speaker 4: anytime something like this comes up, we get anxious again.
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  Speaker 4: We hope that this time we will have the answers
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  Speaker 4: that we need, and then we just keep going. We
• 4:53
  Speaker 4: keep going on. You know, we have I actually lost
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  Speaker 4: another daughter in twenty twenty one, and I have four daughters.
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  Speaker 4: So now I have just my two daughters and my
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  Speaker 4: grandkids and my husband. So we form a very strong
• 5:06
  Speaker 4: bond and we won't stop until we get some kind
• 5:08
  Speaker 4: of answers joining me.
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: In addition to Tara Rosenbloom News twelve Long Island, Kristin
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: Thorn is with US investigator reporter WABC seven Eyewitness News, Tara,
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  Speaker 1: I want to talk to you about potential links between
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  Speaker 1: the suspect Rex Huermann, suspected of being a serial killer
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: in the Long Island area, and Vegas. First take a
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: listen to our friends at News twelve.
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  Speaker 3: News twelve learn late Wednesday afternoon that the Las Vegas
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  Speaker 3: Police Department just got the green light to conduct a
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  Speaker 3: direct comparison between suspected Gilgo Beach killer Rex Hewerman's DNA
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  Speaker 3: with the DNA recovered from Victoria Kamara's body. Sources tell
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  Speaker 3: us the DNA testing could take six to eight weeks
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  Speaker 3: to complete, and that it could expand to include four
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  Speaker 3: other cold cases that we've reported on in recent weeks,
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  Speaker 3: all involving young sex workers in Las Vegas who were
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  Speaker 3: killed in similarly suspicious circumstances as the Gilgo Beach victims.
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  Speaker 1: Okay, straight to you, Tara Rosenbloom needs twelve Long Island
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  Speaker 1: hit me.
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  Speaker 5: Okay, Nancy, thanks for sharing those clips. That was actually
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  Speaker 5: all information that we broke first on News twelve and
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  Speaker 5: shared throughout the country because immediately, you know, we had
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  Speaker 5: prosecutors calling this the most consequential homicide investigation in Long
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  Speaker 5: Island history, as you know, but my team, literally twenty
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  Speaker 5: four hours after his arrest, set out to determine whether
• 6:36
  Speaker 5: or not other police departments across the country would be
• 6:39
  Speaker 5: able to say the same thing. We set our sites
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  Speaker 5: on the Vegas early on, because we know that he's
• 6:45
  Speaker 5: owed two time shares. They are dating back two decades.
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  Speaker 5: First thing we needed to find out, as you and
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  Speaker 5: I have spoken, Nancy, is how many cold cases there
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  Speaker 5: are in the department. We comed through all online records
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  Speaker 5: because they didn't have Italian determined there were two hundred
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  Speaker 5: and sixty six activity.
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  Speaker 1: Okay, whoa right there? Right there? You think and I
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: even hate to say this is so cliche. In Sin City,
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  Speaker 1: for Pete's sake, they would have an up to date
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  Speaker 1: toll of how many people are missing. I mean, Glendaine Grant,
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  Speaker 1: that's just got to rub you the wrong way. Your
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  Speaker 1: daughter has been missing since two thousand and six, and
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  Speaker 1: I think Tara's going to tell us that's around the
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  Speaker 1: time that Huerman was there, and they don't even have
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  Speaker 1: a tally of how many people are missing. Are you
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  Speaker 1: kidding me, Glendane? What what the he's going on out there?
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  Speaker 4: Oh? It drives us crazy, Nancy. We literally have to
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  Speaker 4: be the ones that contact the police on the most cases,
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  Speaker 4: and we give them tips that don't always get looked at.
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  Speaker 4: I have to say, though, in the last year or so,
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  Speaker 4: maybe a little longer, we've had a new detective on
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  Speaker 4: the case that I'm so grateful for. He contacted me,
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  Speaker 4: he asked to be put on the case. He remembers
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  Speaker 4: Jesse's kids from the Geck. He said that he was
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  Speaker 4: a rookie when she went missing, so it's always stood
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  Speaker 4: out to him. And he also told me that they
• 8:00
  Speaker 4: were born in the same year, so we had a connection.
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  Speaker 1: Well, that's so good news. There's new a need to
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  Speaker 1: take tim on it. But Tara Rosenbliam, I want to
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  Speaker 1: get about three inches of their tailpipe. You had to
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  Speaker 1: go in and amass the numbers yourself.
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  Speaker 5: We did, Nancy, and out of those two hundred and
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  Speaker 5: sixty six cold cases, sixty one of them this is
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  Speaker 5: by our count, involved women. So the first thing we
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  Speaker 5: needed to know how many of.
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  Speaker 6: Those are sex workers.
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  Speaker 5: We were looking for similarities to Gilgo Beach. So we
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  Speaker 5: went through one by one. Glendy knows her and I
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  Speaker 5: were in touch. We went through one by one and
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  Speaker 5: reached out to family members, tried to develop law enforcement sources,
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  Speaker 5: and of those, I was able to identify five cases
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  Speaker 5: with striking similarities to the Gilgo Beach cases. I mean,
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  Speaker 5: we were knee deep in this. We were comparing autopsy
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  Speaker 5: records we were putting in foiled records, and we found
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  Speaker 5: out that sure enough, the Las Vegas Police Department, they
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  Speaker 5: got the green light for their DNA lab to conclude
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  Speaker 5: a direct compare sin of suspected Gilgo Beach serial killer
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  Speaker 5: Rex human DNA with the DNA recovered in one of
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  Speaker 5: the cases that we had highlighted early on had involved
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  Speaker 5: the murder of a New Jersey mother, Victoria Kamaras, who
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  Speaker 5: for two decades her family has been looking for answers.
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  Speaker 5: Her daughter was barely one when she was found dead.
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  Speaker 4: I spoke with her yesterday.
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  Speaker 5: She is now twenty one and just really hoping that
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  Speaker 5: this results in justice for their family.
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  Speaker 1: Okay, hold on, you've just thrown us all a bombshell
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  Speaker 1: a grenade. I read your report late last night, and
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  Speaker 1: it's amazing, not only your reporting and all the work,
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: the investigative work you had to do to report what
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  Speaker 1: you reported, but the content of your report. It's happening,
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  Speaker 1: It is happening. Vegas PD now has the go ahead
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  Speaker 1: to make DNA comparisons from what they have found on
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  Speaker 1: these women in Vegas. Two Rex Hueman sitting, as I
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  Speaker 1: said earlier, getting three hots and a cot. Now you
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  Speaker 1: just heard Tara Rosenwilliam bring up the name, and now
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  Speaker 1: I want to follow up with that. Take listen our
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  Speaker 1: friends at News twelve.
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  Speaker 3: In his first interview since Hiraman's bombshell was, a three
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  Speaker 3: decade veteran of the Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department reveals
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  Speaker 3: the chilling reason the suspected serial killer is also being
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  Speaker 3: investigated for possible ties to a string of unsolved murders
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  Speaker 3: that he probed as a detective in the cold case
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  Speaker 3: unit until his retirement two months ago.
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  Speaker 1: I can just say that there are similar circumstances between
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  Speaker 1: these three murder victims.
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  Speaker 7: They were sex workers, and they disappeared and they were
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  Speaker 7: found out in the desert.
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  Speaker 3: Phil Ramos told me three cases he knows of have
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  Speaker 3: similar methodology to the Gilgo Beach murders.
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: Time Stories with Nancy Grace will a new scripted show
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  Speaker 1: produced by fifty cent about Gilgo Beach killer aka Long
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  Speaker 1: Island serial killer Rex Huerman shine light on other victims
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  Speaker 1: in the same area. What do we know about the similarities?
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  Speaker 1: Take a listen to NBC.
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  Speaker 3: The Gilgo Task Force is now expanding its investigation to
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  Speaker 3: other cold cases on Long Island.
• 11:29
  Speaker 8: A serial killer stocked the streets of Atlantic City, strangling
• 11:31
  Speaker 8: prostitutes and leaving them in a narrow ditch behind a
• 11:34
  Speaker 8: CD motel. In November two thousand and six, the bodies
• 11:37
  Speaker 8: of these four women were discovered behind the Golden Key
• 11:40
  Speaker 8: Motel in a Carpor township, their shoes and socks missing,
• 11:44
  Speaker 8: and their bodies with their faces pointed eastward towards the
• 11:47
  Speaker 8: gold and silver spires of Atlantic City across the back.
• 11:50
  Speaker 8: The media called the killer the Eastbound strangler, and no
• 11:53
  Speaker 8: one's ever been arrested and charged with this crime.
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: Okay, let that say, Ken, you're not only hearing our
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: friends at NBC, but also chasing news nine. Let's hear
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: that one more time. Specifically, Cut one five Jack.
• 12:07
  Speaker 8: A serial killer stocked the streets of Atlantic City, strangling
• 12:10
  Speaker 8: prostitutes and leaving them in a narrow ditch behind a
• 12:13
  Speaker 8: CD motel. In November two thousand and six, the bodies
• 12:16
  Speaker 8: of these four women were discovered behind the Golden Key
• 12:19
  Speaker 8: Motel in a Carpor township, their shoes and socks missing,
• 12:22
  Speaker 8: and their bodies with their faces pointed eastward towards the
• 12:26
  Speaker 8: gold and silver spires of Atlantic City across the Bak.
• 12:28
  Speaker 8: The media called the killer the Eastbound strangler, and no
• 12:31
  Speaker 8: one's ever been arrested and charged with this crime.
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: Straight out to the founder and director of the Cold
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: Case Research Institute, forensic expert currently analyzing for a job
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: for a living crime scenes. You can find her at
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: coldcasecrimes dot org. Host of a new hit podcast, Zone seven,
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: Cheryl McCollum. Cheryl, you were with me so many times
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: and during the time I prosecuted violent crimes, including mar
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: including serial killers. The first thing you want to do
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: when you look at similar transactions, as it is called
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: typically in our constitute. Under our constitution, past crimes do
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: not come in on the case in chief. The jury
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: doesn't need to be tainted by other crimes unless and
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: until it shows course of conduct, motive, a frame of
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: mind similarity. So the first thing you want to do
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: to get that evident sin, of course, is to find similarities.
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: Here we have all the victims, and this has really
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: been under played. Nobody even says this word women. They're
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: almost all women. Now, there was one Asian male over
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: on Long Island, and there was one child, but overwhelmingly
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: all the victims are women, many of them sex workers.
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: Here in the Eastbound killer case. And I think we're
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: going to learn in Manerville Lump to get other in
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  Speaker 1: their burial sites, their disposal sites. Burial is probably a euphemism.
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  Speaker 1: They're all disposed of in the same area. They're all
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: killed in the same manner, which is not necessary to
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: be a similar transaction. And many of them, if not all,
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: are sex workers. Okay, how far away? Hold on to
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: a second? Jen Smith joining me, Chief investigative reporter deallymail
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: dot com. Jen, how far are the bodies in the
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  Speaker 1: Eastbound Strangler from the bodies at Gilgo? Just give me
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  Speaker 1: that one fact if you know it, if it's somebody
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: else knows it, jump in.
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  Speaker 9: Yeah, pretty far. I mean we're talking about Long Island
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  Speaker 9: or New York's East Coast and then Jersey, Atlantic City,
• 14:43
  Speaker 9: Wada and kind of at the tip there. So pretty far,
• 14:46
  Speaker 9: but you know, not impossible, right?
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: No? Pretty far? What is pretty far? Three hours? Are
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: you serious? People drive two and a half hours, three
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: hours just to get to work. And if you're looking
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: to kill hookers, where you're going to go? Atlantic City,
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: Vegas away from home so your wife and your children
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: don't know what you're doing enough?
• 15:07
  Speaker 9: Yes, you're right, they are close enough for a connection
• 15:10
  Speaker 9: to be plausible.
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: A three hour drive to dispose of bodies. Okay, sure,
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: I will call him similarities. What do you make of it?
• 15:17
  Speaker 10: They're all safe workers. Their cell phones were taken. That's
• 15:22
  Speaker 10: key to me, because we know not only has Rex
• 15:25
  Speaker 10: taken cell phones from the victims, is used them.
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: Well well, wait, stop, did you actually just call him
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: by his first name? Where are you gonna have dinner
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: with him?
• 15:35
  Speaker 10: Let not be too respectful by calling him by his
• 15:38
  Speaker 10: last name.
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: Don't don't go while his wife and children aren't home.
• 15:42
  Speaker 10: And I'm trying not to give him too much for
• 15:44
  Speaker 10: what So I'm just saying, we know he took.
• 15:46
  Speaker 4: Cell phones, we know he used those falls.
• 15:49
  Speaker 10: The other thing, not only are the dumping grounds similar,
• 15:52
  Speaker 10: but the way he's left the victims enclosed proc similarly
• 15:55
  Speaker 10: to woman. Never is key, Nancy. You and I talked
• 15:58
  Speaker 10: about from street there were going to be bodies in
• 16:02
  Speaker 10: other states. We believed that the fact that he had
• 16:05
  Speaker 10: seven cell phones. The pros right now are going to
• 16:10
  Speaker 10: try to see the distinction of why he.
• 16:13
  Speaker 4: Had seven phones.
• 16:15
  Speaker 10: Was each bone designated a different state?
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: We will see, guys, we're talking about the very real
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: possibility that Rex Hureman, the so called Long Island serial
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: Killer or Gilgo Beach Killer, is connected to a string
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: of murders, the Moniker, the east Bound Strangler, and Manabel Butcher.
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: I want to go now to a very special guest
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: joining us, and remember everybody on the panel, Doctor Bethany
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: bernarda Vielona, Joe Jackelone, doctor Tim Gallagher, Jen Smith, everybody
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: please jump in. We have an expert joining us right now,
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: film producer and director of the killing season and eight
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: part series on the Gilg Killer airing right now. You
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: can stream it at Hulu, Amazon Prime and ae TV. Okay, well,
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: let that just sink in. This guy has produced and
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: directed an eight part series on the Gilg Beach Killer
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: and ties to other victims in the area. Josh Zeeman
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: is joining to us. Okay, you know what, Josh, I
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: just got chills on my arm thinking about and not
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: in a good way, in the scary way, thinking about
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: the Eastbound Strangler and the Manerbal Butcher as he has
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: called because he dismembered bodies. Josh, what do you think
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: right now?
• 17:46
  Speaker 6: It's really hard to kind of put it all together.
• 17:50
  Speaker 6: I mean, you know, the defendant. Is he even considered
• 17:55
  Speaker 6: to be the Manorbill Butcher. That's the first and big question. Yes,
• 17:58
  Speaker 6: the gilg Beach four, the Maniville Butcher. We don't quite know.
• 18:02
  Speaker 6: And we're talking about six other victims who are found
• 18:05
  Speaker 6: basically around the Gilgo Beach four. The Manerville Butcher. Yes,
• 18:12
  Speaker 6: probably the Eastbound strangler. I don't know. That's it's really tough.
• 18:17
  Speaker 6: I mean, we're talking about four women, all sex workers,
• 18:21
  Speaker 6: all found in close proximity to each other, all found
• 18:24
  Speaker 6: near water. There's a lot of similarities, but there's also
• 18:27
  Speaker 6: a lot of differences too.
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: Okay, hold on, justin. Joe Jackalone is joining us former
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: NYPD sergeant, Colgate investigator and author of the cold case
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: handbook WOW and the Criminal Investigative Function, a guide for
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: new investigators. The guy has literally written the book and
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: you can find him at Joseph jackelone spelled gia c
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: A l o n E. Okay, completely than the way
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: it sounds dot com. Joe, thank you for being with us.
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: You know, I hear Josh Zaemon and I agree. The
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: three hours drive for the Eastbounds Strangler doesn't bother me
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: at all. That's no, that doesn't bother me for someone
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: that at that point in his killing career wants to
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: dump bodies further away from his home. Now, the Manville Butcher, Josh,
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: weren't some of the body parts of the Mannerval Butcher
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: victims found at Gilgo Beach.
• 19:39
  Speaker 6: I mean, yeah, that's the crazy thing. How how are
• 19:42
  Speaker 6: there two serial killers dumping bodies in the same place. Yeah,
• 19:46
  Speaker 6: you know, for a long time we didn't really quite
• 19:49
  Speaker 6: think the tour connected. But one of the biggest issues
• 19:52
  Speaker 6: is the defendants google searches. In his Google search there
• 19:56
  Speaker 6: it comes up Asian twink, which really is kind of
• 19:59
  Speaker 6: like think that's identified with an Asian, kind of effeminine man.
• 20:05
  Speaker 11: Also, just from being a top of myself on Cherry
• 20:07
  Speaker 11: will tell you we don't believe in coincidences, right, So
• 20:10
  Speaker 11: from the very beginning, I always thought it was one
• 20:12
  Speaker 11: individual response that responsible for all of these And I'll
• 20:15
  Speaker 11: tell you what people say, Well, these people, you know,
• 20:18
  Speaker 11: the first book, Jessica Taylor and Valerie Mack were all
• 20:21
  Speaker 11: caught up, and then you know, remains were left in
• 20:23
  Speaker 11: Manorville and Hempstead State Lake Park and Fire Island Jane Goe.
• 20:27
  Speaker 11: But you know, and now the other he'll go for
• 20:30
  Speaker 11: totally intact. And it's because my belief is that this
• 20:34
  Speaker 11: individual fet those girls up off the street and he
• 20:37
  Speaker 11: was worried about somebody seeing and get in the car,
• 20:39
  Speaker 11: and that's so he had to try to dismember him
• 20:42
  Speaker 11: to try to make sure that the police couldn't identify
• 20:44
  Speaker 11: and so nothing would lead back to him. The gill
• 20:46
  Speaker 11: go for all done anonymously what he thought with burna
• 20:50
  Speaker 11: phones on the internet, and there was no need to
• 20:52
  Speaker 11: dismember those bodies. That has been my working theory from
• 20:55
  Speaker 11: the beginning, and I'm going to stick with it at
• 20:57
  Speaker 11: this point. I can't. There's no going back. So the
• 21:00
  Speaker 11: issue that comes down to is we now have all
• 21:03
  Speaker 11: of the electronic records and I'm sure with this Atlantic
• 21:06
  Speaker 11: city trip that everybody's now focusing in on, you have
• 21:09
  Speaker 11: to pay tolls to get their easy pass records, cell
• 21:12
  Speaker 11: phone towers all along the way. We have all his phones,
• 21:14
  Speaker 11: or at least seven of them. So that digital evidence,
• 21:18
  Speaker 11: I think will kind of determine exactly what we're looking at,
• 21:22
  Speaker 11: if we're looking at all.
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: Okay, I want to have to process everything you just said,
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: except it's a huge data dump right there, and every
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: word of it was significant. Jen Smith joining me, Chief
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: investigative reporter, dailymail dot com. Jen, give me the framework,
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: the time framework of the Gilg Beach killings, the Gilg
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: four they started and stopped when I could just look
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: at my notes that I've made. Is this correct? Two
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: thousand and seven ten for Gilgo No.
• 21:52
  Speaker 9: Not quite the earliest that the girls went missing with
• 21:55
  Speaker 9: around two thousand and nine, but the bodies were all
• 21:58
  Speaker 9: discovered in two thousand.
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: But we know it's in that area. Two thousand and seven,
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: twenty ten. You're saying two thousand and nine correct. Here
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: comes my question, Eastbound Strangler. Everybody jump in. If these
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: numbers are If these dates are wrong, Eastbound Strangler two
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: thousand and six, is that the discovery of the Okay?
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: All right, so hold on, I'm working very slowly working
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: out something. Then we have the Manivald Butcher victims ninety
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: three ninety four.
• 22:29
  Speaker 6: Ish, right, that's correct.
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: There are also unattributed Long Island murder victims nineteen ninety
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: seven to two thousand and three. What I'm saying is
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: I have basically a linear line, speaking of redundancy, I
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: have a linear chronology of murders starting back in ninety three.
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: You got the Manibal Butcher murders in ninety three, starting
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: then where the bodies would be dismembered. Then from about
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: ninety seventy two thousand and three, multiple other victims two
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: thousand and six, East found strangler two thousand and seven
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: to twenty ten, the Guilgo victims. I mean, it just said, Okay,
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: you know what. Let me go to BERNARDA. Vielona, who
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: actually worked in the homicide bureau with one of the
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: guilt current Gilgo case prosecutors. She's a high profile criminal
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: defense attorney former prosecutor in New York and you can
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: find her at via Loona law dot com. BERNARDA, do
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: you remember the very first case you ever tried? You
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: don't need to tell me about it, but do you
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: remember absolutely?
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: Okayt absolutely and it was a cold case.
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: Do you remember the last case? Do you remember the
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: last case?
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: You tried to remember the first case in the last case,
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: but definitely the first case. It was cold case, and
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: cold cases are the most difficult cases.
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: How much did you improve? How much did I improve
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: from my first case of an attimpted shoplifting to the
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: last case where I had a serial killer. How much
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: did you hone your craft?
• 24:12
  Speaker 4: Oh my god, one hundred.
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: I mean I'm a different person now, a completely different person,
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: completely second attorney.
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: I'm getting a sign waved at me by Jackie Hueman.
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: Would have been twenty nine in nineteen ninety three. Okay, yes,
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: how old was Bundy? Wasn't he? And Doctor Bethany Marshall
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: jump in with me here, I'm trying to talk about
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: what I see as a chronological a very clear line.
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: Doctor Bethany Marshall, high profile psychoanalyst joining us out of
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: Beverly Hills where they're all worried about which designer bag
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: goes with which designer outfit. But hey, everybody's got problems.
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: You can find her at doctor Bethany Marshall dot com.
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: Doctor Bethany jump in, Well, here's what.
• 24:56
  Speaker 12: I think about the chronology. Sure, at the beginning, he's
• 24:59
  Speaker 12: just working up the courage to begin killing people, so
• 25:03
  Speaker 12: maybe he won't be as talented at it.
• 25:07
  Speaker 9: But see, one of the things we know about.
• 25:09
  Speaker 12: Serial killers, and and this is sort of in the literature,
• 25:12
  Speaker 12: and it's known in my field, is that they do
• 25:15
  Speaker 12: kill a few victims at a time, and then they
• 25:19
  Speaker 12: go underground and then they start they have another killing spree,
• 25:23
  Speaker 12: and then they go underground. And the question is why
• 25:26
  Speaker 12: is that. The reason that they do that is that
• 25:28
  Speaker 12: they have such prolific fantasy lives. Now, remember serial killing
• 25:33
  Speaker 12: is motivated by sex, right that the desire to inflict cruelty,
• 25:38
  Speaker 12: to kill in order to achieve sexual arousal. Well, because
• 25:42
  Speaker 12: these guys have such prolific fantasy lives, they can take
• 25:46
  Speaker 12: a trophy or a body part and they can fantasize,
• 25:49
  Speaker 12: they can think, they can go on the internet, they
• 25:51
  Speaker 12: can they can plan their next crime, and then they
• 25:55
  Speaker 12: pop up and then there's another cluster of killings. And
• 25:59
  Speaker 12: that's that's what I'm seeing in the chronology, is there
• 26:02
  Speaker 12: are clusters. You know, he kills like the sort of
• 26:05
  Speaker 12: the four women that are are faced east, and then
• 26:08
  Speaker 12: he goes underground again and then he pops up again.
• 26:10
  Speaker 4: The idea of this.
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: Three hour drive.
• 26:14
  Speaker 12: I sorry to keep bringing this back to sex, but
• 26:16
  Speaker 12: I think that sex addicts people are sexually compulsive. They
• 26:20
  Speaker 12: do drive a lot. They're looking just they masturbate a lot,
• 26:25
  Speaker 12: they fantasize a lot. They're looking for that right next
• 26:28
  Speaker 12: victim or person that they're going to hook up with.
• 26:32
  Speaker 12: So think of it as a compulsion. And there's a
• 26:35
  Speaker 12: lot of time spent in the compulsion. And also we're
• 26:39
  Speaker 12: just focusing on the people who died. He may have
• 26:43
  Speaker 12: been having sex with a lot of people every day,
• 26:46
  Speaker 12: hooking up a lot, dating a lot, you know, calling
• 26:50
  Speaker 12: women a lot.
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: So the deaths have.
• 26:53
  Speaker 4: Come to our attention.
• 26:54
  Speaker 12: Well, we have to remember that this is a man
• 26:56
  Speaker 12: who's thinking, acting, masturbating. Look in calling all the time.
• 27:01
  Speaker 12: There's this huge amount of energy.
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: Hey, let me throw something in there. Of course, the
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: guy's got seven burner phones plus his regular phone. What
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: do you think he's doing again, Ladies, your husband or
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: boyfriend gets a burner phone, you get a lawyer. Okay,
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: bye bye. But I'm thinking I'm not I'm in the
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: same boat with josh A Zemon. I'm ready to consider
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: the manial Butcher killings. I've got to know more about
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: the Eastbound strangler, although that mo modus operandi in Eastbound
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: seems more similar to me. The manival butcher puts body
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: parts of his dismember victims at Gilgo Beach with the
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: Gilgo for bodies and the other bodies found there. MENI
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: MENI bodies. I mean, are you ready to believe that
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: there's a coincidence that there's a serial kill convention and
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: several of them are leaving bodies there. Doctor Tim Gallagher
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: is with US Medical Examiner for the State of Florida.
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: You can find him at pathcaremed dot com. Lecturer University
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: of Florida Medical School and Forensic Medicine, Founder of the
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: International Forensic Medicine Death Investigation Conference. Just in a nutshell,
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: if that's possible. I mean, you studied what seven years
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: and med school, then the undergrad and the residency and
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: all that, and I ask you to put it in
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: a nutshell, Dr Gallagher, How hard is it truly difficult
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: to dismember a body?
• 28:40
  Speaker 13: Well, I think that's something important to talk about here, Nancy.
• 28:43
  Speaker 13: The way the body has been dismembered can also lead
• 28:47
  Speaker 13: to is it one killer or is it two? If
• 28:50
  Speaker 13: the body was surgically dismembered, for instance, if the knife.
• 28:54
  Speaker 13: If the knife was used and it was between the joints,
• 28:57
  Speaker 13: the person would have to know about anatomy and exactly
• 29:00
  Speaker 13: to cut it, so they would leave virtually no marks
• 29:04
  Speaker 13: on any of the bones with the knife. If the
• 29:07
  Speaker 13: person had used as say an electrical saw you know,
• 29:11
  Speaker 13: to cut through the bones. Just say, as a butcher,
• 29:15
  Speaker 13: would you know that can And if all the bodies
• 29:18
  Speaker 13: who were dismembered were dismembered in the same way, that
• 29:21
  Speaker 13: could lead to one or two killers. So it's important
• 29:26
  Speaker 13: to look at the ends of the bones when they're
• 29:28
  Speaker 13: found to see if the bones were surgically dissected from
• 29:31
  Speaker 13: each other, for instance, the knife was gone through the joints,
• 29:35
  Speaker 13: or if a electrical saw type device was used which
• 29:39
  Speaker 13: left teeth marks and damage to the bones while the
• 29:44
  Speaker 13: person was cutting through. If the damage to the bones
• 29:47
  Speaker 13: were the same in each of the body parts that
• 29:51
  Speaker 13: were found, then we could attribute that to the same person,
• 29:56
  Speaker 13: you know. So, but as far as dismembering a person,
• 30:00
  Speaker 13: it takes a lot of energy. It's a lot a
• 30:02
  Speaker 13: lot of energy. It's it's not for the meek, it's
• 30:05
  Speaker 13: not for somebody who is weak. It's and the actual
• 30:12
  Speaker 13: pattern to look for will help you decide whether it's
• 30:15
  Speaker 13: one or two killers.
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: You know, online everyone is not everyone. A lot of
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: people are saying, oh, it's just like Dexter. It's not
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: just like Dexter number one. That's pretend number one. Number
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: two Dexter was killing bad guys. This guy is killing, stalking,
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: torturing and killing women and children. Because isn't there a child?
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: Wasn't there a child found Jen Smith or the Eastbound Strangler, Yeah.
• 30:46
  Speaker 4: There was.
• 30:46
  Speaker 9: It wasn't the eastbund strangler, Nancy. It was one of
• 30:49
  Speaker 9: the Manorville victims. There was a toddler friend with the
• 30:53
  Speaker 9: mother Peaches correct. Yeah, so the mother is unidentified the
• 30:58
  Speaker 9: Jane Doe and investigators obvious, they were so struck by
• 31:02
  Speaker 9: the tragedy of this they didn't want to refer to
• 31:04
  Speaker 9: a toddler girl as a Jane Doe, so they came
• 31:07
  Speaker 9: up with the name Peaches for her. And I mean, yeah,
• 31:12
  Speaker 9: that would have been the Manavilla Butcher.
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: Thank you guys speaking out of the Manifld Butcher. Takelis
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: knock cut one thirty nine ABC seven.
• 31:21
  Speaker 4: Today, we are announcing that Jane Doe number six.
• 31:24
  Speaker 8: Has been positively identified as Valerie Mac.
• 31:28
  Speaker 7: It has been twenty years since the family of Valerie
• 31:30
  Speaker 7: Mac has seen her smile or hurt her laugh. The
• 31:34
  Speaker 7: twenty four year old was last seen in the spring
• 31:36
  Speaker 7: of two thousand, about one hundred miles away from Philly.
• 31:39
  Speaker 7: In November of that year, the partial remains of a
• 31:42
  Speaker 7: woman were found in Manorville. More than ten years later,
• 31:45
  Speaker 7: more remains were discovered in Gilgo Beach State Park in
• 31:48
  Speaker 7: April of twenty eleven.
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: Gilgo, Gilgo, Gilgo. We keep hearing Gilgo dead bodies, body parts,
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: and there's another similarity. Take a listen to our friends
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: at pix eleven in our cut one four.
• 32:03
  Speaker 14: Two, Jessica Taylor and Valerie Mack, another dismembered victim found
• 32:08
  Speaker 14: in Manerville, were tied to the Gilgo Beach serial killer
• 32:12
  Speaker 14: or killers. Two law enforcement sources told me they were
• 32:15
  Speaker 14: tied up in a very cruel way, one saying their
• 32:19
  Speaker 14: leg area was bound in a ball. You'd have to
• 32:21
  Speaker 14: be a hunter to do something like that. The second
• 32:25
  Speaker 14: source said the knees were brought into their chest area.
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: Josh Zeeman, joining us director of the Killing Season, an
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: eight part series on the Gilg killer and ties to
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: other victims in the area. Weren't the Gilgo victims bound
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: as well?
• 32:44
  Speaker 6: Yeah? In fact, one was bound with a belt, So
• 32:50
  Speaker 6: the bounding is similar for sure. You know that's another
• 32:53
  Speaker 6: big issue. I mean, how are body parts being left
• 32:56
  Speaker 6: in Manorville? The same body parts being left in Gilgo Beach.
• 33:00
  Speaker 6: It's just too coincidental.
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: How far is Mannerabal from Gilgo Beach?
• 33:06
  Speaker 6: Fifty miles? Joe, how far is it?
• 33:09
  Speaker 11: Yeah, I was gonna say about anywhere from forty to
• 33:11
  Speaker 11: forty five miles.
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: And listen, forty five miles an hour, an hour and
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: a half maybe in the car, but late at night,
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: cut that down to fifty minutes one hour. If you
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: had to get rid of a dead body, how far
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: would you drive in the middle of the night to
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: do that. I would definitely drive at least an hour
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: or two hours or three hours to get rid of
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: a dead body. I'm curious about, Well, it would be
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: on his way home, explained.
• 33:43
  Speaker 11: It would be on his way home. So if he
• 33:46
  Speaker 11: was whoever's response to letters say it's the suspect they
• 33:49
  Speaker 11: have now on the way going to matter Billy, you
• 33:51
  Speaker 11: would just pop down onto the Sagetos, go all the
• 33:54
  Speaker 11: way down to the Southern State, right over the Robert
• 33:56
  Speaker 11: Moses right into Gilgo Gilgo, right into the Walstow Parkway
• 33:59
  Speaker 11: right now, write I mean, it's just it's just you know,
• 34:04
  Speaker 11: it's a direct route. I mean, And Josh would say
• 34:06
  Speaker 11: you too. For of us who grew up on Long Island.
• 34:08
  Speaker 11: I mean, you just don't find Gilgo Beach. It's not
• 34:10
  Speaker 11: like you can stumble upon it. You have to know
• 34:12
  Speaker 11: it's there. So it's just to me, it's just interesting
• 34:15
  Speaker 11: because when you look at a map and you look
• 34:17
  Speaker 11: at where Manerville is in Hampstead Lake State Park and
• 34:19
  Speaker 11: everything else in Massa Peaka, now it all comes into
• 34:22
  Speaker 11: a into a circle.
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: Okay, that is incredibly primitive or proves something to me, Joe,
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: are you telling me that humans and again he has
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: not been charged in Manibal or Eastbound? We're exploring the similarities.
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: Are you telling me Jack alone that humans drive home
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: goes through Gilgo and Mannible.
• 34:48
  Speaker 11: You know what I'm saying is that if you look
• 34:50
  Speaker 11: at the map, you look at where he lives, and
• 34:51
  Speaker 11: look at where the bodies are recovered and the parts
• 34:54
  Speaker 11: of the bodies are covered, It's it's basically like an
• 34:57
  Speaker 11: oval or a circle. So you can connec with dods
• 35:00
  Speaker 11: and put them all within that oval, and you know,
• 35:02
  Speaker 11: be able to try to pinpoint it. And that's what
• 35:04
  Speaker 11: we've seen investigators do already with even the cell phone
• 35:07
  Speaker 11: records where they pinpointed him down at the Massa Peaquay
• 35:09
  Speaker 11: into Manhattan, and I think they're going to try to
• 35:12
  Speaker 11: do the same thing with these cases. Just that do
• 35:14
  Speaker 11: they have the records from way back when? I mean,
• 35:16
  Speaker 11: we know they don't have them from the ninety six cases,
• 35:18
  Speaker 11: in the ninety seven cases because it was still I
• 35:21
  Speaker 11: don't think they got anything back then, because I don't
• 35:23
  Speaker 11: think much of this existed. So the issue that comes
• 35:26
  Speaker 11: down to is you can make it. You can make
• 35:28
  Speaker 11: a point.
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: Okay, coming from someone with no accent at all me,
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: could you slow down your New York keys and tell
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: me what you identify on the map as a would
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: be route by hereman or Let's just pretend the killer
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: go ahead.
• 35:47
  Speaker 11: It depends on where he's picking these girls up. But
• 35:49
  Speaker 11: if you look at Manorvil, you can make a direct
• 35:52
  Speaker 11: line right to Gilgo Beach right from Manerville. If you
• 35:55
  Speaker 11: if you come from Messapequa, you can make a direct
• 35:58
  Speaker 11: route to Gilgo, no problem them. You make a good
• 36:01
  Speaker 11: direct route at Hempstead Lake State Park be home within
• 36:04
  Speaker 11: half an hour back and forth. And of course, anybody
• 36:08
  Speaker 11: who's ever written in the Southern State Parkway knows that
• 36:11
  Speaker 11: timing is everything. So if you're doing this in the
• 36:12
  Speaker 11: middle of the night. You're you're pretty good. If you're
• 36:14
  Speaker 11: trying to do this at three o'clock in the afternoon,
• 36:16
  Speaker 11: it'll take you a long time to do so. But
• 36:19
  Speaker 11: it's plaudible.
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Gray, will a scripted program produced
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: by fifty Cents, shine a light on even more murders
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: at the hands of Long Island serial killer Rex Hureman.
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: This as details of his secret plea deal exposed. While
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: human stood calmly in court in a suit and tie,
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: his hands and ankles shackled. His victims' family's watched from
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: the sideline, and his Asa Ellrope was there as well,
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: counting the money she'll make from her reality show The
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: DA now stating if there had been a weak case,
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: he did not think that Humman would ever have played guilty.
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: As part of the pla negotiations, the prosecutor says he
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: and Humeman sat down and met face to face. It
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: was there Hureman accept a responsibility for the murders of
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: eight victims covered by the plea, But how many more
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: victims are there out there? Josh Zeeman, filmmaker, producer, director
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: of the Killing season in eight part series on Gilgo,
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: Josh I'm thinking about what he's saying regarding the route
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: and what he said that you'd have to know the
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: area to even find Gilgo Beach. Everybody pause and think
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: of a play place in your hometown, a place not
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: many people would know about that a local only somebody
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: that lived in that area would know. What do you
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: make of that, Josh, someone that knows Manival, that knows Gilgo,
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: that knows the state park.
• 38:20
  Speaker 6: Nancy, I think we can get even more specific than that.
• 38:23
  Speaker 6: We know he's a hunter. We know he had what
• 38:26
  Speaker 6: two hundred and ninety five guns and probably other hunting implements.
• 38:30
  Speaker 6: We know that he buried the GB four in camouflage,
• 38:36
  Speaker 6: so we know he's a hunter. We know he's a
• 38:38
  Speaker 6: duck hunter. He knows Gilgo because he went hunting there,
• 38:42
  Speaker 6: and some of the other victims who were found in
• 38:44
  Speaker 6: Manerville were found by hunters, So I believe he knows
• 38:48
  Speaker 6: both areas from his hunting. The question is what is
• 38:51
  Speaker 6: he hunting?
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: Okay, you just gave me a lot of critical information.
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: Would you say that one more time? Place, Well, the
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: question is the hunting aspect. Actually, I've got hunters on
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: my notes, It says one investigator saying there a leg area.
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: This is mannable victims. Their leg area was bound in
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: a ball. You'd have to be a hunter to do
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: something like that. That was their quote. Okay, would you
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: tell me that again, Please just that.
• 39:21
  Speaker 6: The reason one of the reasons why he knows these
• 39:23
  Speaker 6: areas outside of being a long islander is because he's
• 39:27
  Speaker 6: a hunter. We know he's a hunter. We know he's
• 39:29
  Speaker 6: a duck hunter. We know he had a huge collection
• 39:31
  Speaker 6: of weapons, hunting implements. We know that the Gilgo Beach
• 39:36
  Speaker 6: four were wrapped in burlap camo, so Gilgo Beach duck
• 39:42
  Speaker 6: hunters use it, and even a hunter found one of
• 39:46
  Speaker 6: the victims in Manorville. So I think hunting kind of
• 39:50
  Speaker 6: ties this all together. You know, are we hunting individuals
• 39:53
  Speaker 6: or are we hunting animals? There's just a lot of
• 39:56
  Speaker 6: connections to the idea of being a hunter.
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: Bernardo, who's being unusually quiet today via Luna you hone,
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: you hone. Okay, here's a simple comparison. In my first
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: jury trial, I thought that's when women thought they had
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: to dress link men. I had on the shirt up
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: to my chin, the long sleeves, the long sleeved jacket,
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: the skirt, the weirdly ivory hose, the flats, my hair
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: up on my head, and one of those fake ties
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: that women used to wear, like a rosette or something
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: stuck in my throat. By that was the week the
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: air condition went out in the Folding County Courthouse and
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: I was on the fifth floor. By the time that
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: trial was over, my hair was on one side of
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: my head, had all black eyeliner coming down my face.
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: The jacket was gone, the shirt was untacked. I don't
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: know what happened to that rosette. Long story short, simply put,
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: I adapted. I changed the way I gave it clothing,
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: the way I did directs, a cross exams. Everything changes.
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: But Nancy, he could have honed his craft, is that.
• 41:07
  Speaker 4: Yes, Nancy?
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: So you have to think, we don't know when human
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: started his little serial killing. We don't know where's starting.
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: Where was his first kill, who was his first killed,
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: Where did it happen, When did it happen? So what
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: we encountered is just the gil Go Beach murders, and
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: that being the four women. But he's only charged for three.
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: And these are the questions in the clues that investigators
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: are trying to find and those questions that we've been
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: talking about all day are the same things that investigators
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: are like, wait, could it have started in this area?
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: Could have started New Jersey, could have started in South Carolina,
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: could have started in the bottom where's the first kill?
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: Because there's no way that you start right with Gilgo.
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: There's something more to it. You started simple, with a
• 41:52
  Speaker 2: simpler murder than just this, because this seems to have
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: been well planned. When you're talking about getting these bodies
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: to gil Go Beachhi're bite.
• 42:00
  Speaker 4: And he'd like to jump in about the hunting.
• 42:03
  Speaker 12: You know, people who have compulsions tend to have habits
• 42:07
  Speaker 12: that relate to the compulsion. So let's say he has
• 42:10
  Speaker 12: a compulsion to kill, compulsion to inflict cruelty. So the
• 42:14
  Speaker 12: hunting is related to the compulsion, just like somebody who's
• 42:17
  Speaker 12: an alcoholic may begin to uh make craft beers, right,
• 42:24
  Speaker 12: because that is related to the compulsion. So he probably
• 42:28
  Speaker 12: had a lot of activities in his life, you know,
• 42:31
  Speaker 12: the the idea of dismembering the bodies, whether that was
• 42:34
  Speaker 12: for pleasure, sexual pleasure, or also because he was trying
• 42:38
  Speaker 12: to cover his tracks, It was probably.
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: A little bit of both.
• 42:41
  Speaker 12: You know, did he do would work. I hate to say,
• 42:43
  Speaker 12: I mean, I hate to be so cross about it,
• 42:46
  Speaker 12: but I'm sure we're going to learn that he has
• 42:48
  Speaker 12: a lot of habits that relate to his compulsions.
• 42:51
  Speaker 4: Hey, Nancy, can I get back.
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: To my perfect I just wanted to point out classic
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: example Ted Bundy. He started picking up for women that Oh,
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: I'm so happy Ted Bundy start off, there's another aspect
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: to Bundy. I bet this was not what you were
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: going to say. He started picking up female university students,
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: but then he shifted and no longer was picking up
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: university students. In the end, he went back to murdering
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: them in their place. But at the beginning he tried
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: to pick them up. But I bet you've got a
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: different change in mo I do's.
• 43:30
  Speaker 10: He dismembered some of his victims, he strangled some with pantyhose,
• 43:34
  Speaker 10: and then he picked up a log and performed blunt
• 43:36
  Speaker 10: force trauma.
• 43:38
  Speaker 4: The mo can change. He can fool.
• 43:40
  Speaker 10: You because his fantasies will also change. Ted Bundy had
• 43:45
  Speaker 10: adults primarily, and then all of a sudden he has
• 43:47
  Speaker 10: a twelve year old child. It does change. So, for example,
• 43:51
  Speaker 10: when we're looking at these different pockets of victims that
• 43:56
  Speaker 10: were taken from a similar area. Look at the Asian male.
• 44:00
  Speaker 10: The Asian male was found wearing women's clothing.
• 44:03
  Speaker 4: My question is whose clothes were they?
• 44:06
  Speaker 10: Because all the other victims were found nude, he wasn't,
• 44:10
  Speaker 10: So I want to know when he googled the Asian
• 44:13
  Speaker 10: tink was that before or after the murder? That timeline
• 44:16
  Speaker 10: is going to be crucial in telling you his mindset
• 44:20
  Speaker 10: with that murder.
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: Speaking of m A modus operandi method of operation, take
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: a listener cut one two six and one two seven
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: from the Killing season. Listen.
• 44:31
  Speaker 15: There were in all ten bodies that were found a
• 44:35
  Speaker 15: Long Ocean parkway. Some were dismembered and some were found intact.
• 44:41
  Speaker 15: The Gilgo Beach four, which is the three women plus
• 44:45
  Speaker 15: one that Rex was has been arrested for. They were
• 44:48
  Speaker 15: all found intact. So the police kind of because of
• 44:50
  Speaker 15: that MO, they basically grouped them together and they called
• 44:53
  Speaker 15: them the Gilgo Beach four. The question becomes, what about
• 44:58
  Speaker 15: these other six vicvictims? Dismemberment it's different m O. And
• 45:03
  Speaker 15: this is hard to talk about, but is it the
• 45:06
  Speaker 15: same killer or is it different? You know, some experts
• 45:09
  Speaker 15: would say that it's completely different. Other people would say, no,
• 45:14
  Speaker 15: this guy was just dismembering body parts in the beginning,
• 45:18
  Speaker 15: and then he got lazy because he didn't get caught,
• 45:21
  Speaker 15: and then was leaving bodies whole. So that's where this
• 45:24
  Speaker 15: whole confusion comes from.
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: Okay, you're hearing our new friend Josh Zeeman speaking. Explain
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: to me. Josh and Phil, don't feel fenced in or
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: limited by my question. Explain to me when you said
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: he just got lazy.
• 45:43
  Speaker 6: I mean that's a question that has been brought up.
• 45:45
  Speaker 6: And look, I'm not an expert. We have a lot
• 45:46
  Speaker 6: of experts on this panel who know far more than
• 45:49
  Speaker 6: I do. I'm just a documentarian, but I do.
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: Want Can I stop right there? Zaemon? You've done an
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: eight part series on the Gilgo Beach killer and ties
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: to other victims, so I think, go ahead.
• 46:01
  Speaker 6: Okay, So the question just becomes and I throw this
• 46:03
  Speaker 6: out to the rest of the panel. Do we have
• 46:07
  Speaker 6: examples of serial killers basically getting lazy? I mean they
• 46:11
  Speaker 6: take all these early forensic countermeasures. Yes, could the dismemberment
• 46:17
  Speaker 6: be part of some type of pleasure as well? Is
• 46:20
  Speaker 6: it also a forensic countermeasure? And then you know he
• 46:23
  Speaker 6: doesn't get caught for so long. We're talking about nineteen
• 46:26
  Speaker 6: ninety three, when the first started, nineteen ninety six, when
• 46:29
  Speaker 6: the first victim fire Island Jane Doe disappeared, going all
• 46:33
  Speaker 6: the way to when the Gilgo Beach FOURD disappeared about
• 46:36
  Speaker 6: ten twelve years later. So could he get lazy? That's
• 46:40
  Speaker 6: my question? Could he change his mo because hey, he
• 46:43
  Speaker 6: just wasn't caught.
• 46:45
  Speaker 10: Nancy, I'd like to answer that.
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: Could I stop him?
• 46:48
  Speaker 10: He didn't go ahead, He didn't get lazy, He got comfortable.
• 46:53
  Speaker 10: There's a difference. We see it in law enforcement. Sometimes
• 46:56
  Speaker 10: you get very comfortable in your zone among your people,
• 47:00
  Speaker 10: and maybe you're not on a you know, on a
• 47:02
  Speaker 10: swivel looking for problems to being situationally aware. This man
• 47:08
  Speaker 10: full time researched Google, read about downloaded torture poor, He
• 47:15
  Speaker 10: drove extensively looking for places peaking dumping grounds. He contacted
• 47:21
  Speaker 10: sex workers all the time. This was something he did
• 47:26
  Speaker 10: full time. He was absolutely not lazy.
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: As I may, I was just going to you, Chief
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: investigative reporter, dailymail dot Com. I was going to ask
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: you a different question. But let's hear what you were
• 47:37
  Speaker 1: going to say.
• 47:38
  Speaker 9: Well, that's a really important, crucial point. The reason that
• 47:40
  Speaker 9: they hauled ras here him and because they felt as
• 47:44
  Speaker 9: if their investigation was complete, it was because he was
• 47:47
  Speaker 9: continuing to contact sex workers, using burner phones and making
• 47:51
  Speaker 9: arrangements to meet with more women. So investigators were frankly
• 47:55
  Speaker 9: terrified that he might strike again. He'd been they were
• 47:59
  Speaker 9: watching him a year before they brought him in, and
• 48:02
  Speaker 9: he was continuing.
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: Okay, hold on, Jen Smith, I read every single thing
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: you write about this on dailymail dot com and far
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: far beyond. I want you to explain what you just
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: said about how he was continuing to contact sex workers
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: up to the time of his arrest. But I saw
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: the photo that you first published of Rex Huerman in
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: a cell phone oh store buying additional minutes. Oh yeah, yeah,
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: buying additional minutes. At least I think I saw it
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: on delim buying additional minutes for his burner phone. If
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: David Lynch popped up on video at a cell phone
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: store buying more minutes for his burner phone, oh yeah,
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: I'm changing the locks then that minute? And what else
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: is he gonna do on a burner phone? That's his
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: mo O. But now you are adding to that and saying,
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: not only was he buying the additional minutes, he's caught
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: down the water on that. But we know for a
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: fact he was contacting sex workers up until the time
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: of his arrest. And that woman, I believe she said
• 49:10
  Speaker 1: July four, July seven, he approached her in a very
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: aggressive manner out in the public park. She got so
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: afraid that she called her sister and said, I need
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: to come home right now, right. It was all happening
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: up until the moment of his arrest.
• 49:25
  Speaker 9: Absolutely know he was brazen. He did not feel like
• 49:30
  Speaker 9: he had anything to worry about, and he was continuing
• 49:33
  Speaker 9: to behave in a way that he had been for decades.
• 49:38
  Speaker 9: I mean, they really were worried about him striking again.
• 49:41
  Speaker 9: That's why they arrested him. You know where they arrested
• 49:45
  Speaker 9: him outside his office in Manhattan. They did that away
• 49:49
  Speaker 9: from the home where he kept two hundred and seventy
• 49:52
  Speaker 9: nine or two hundred and ninety five firearms. They were
• 49:55
  Speaker 9: worried about standoff, Nancy. That's why they hold him in.
• 49:57
  Speaker 9: This guy was dangerous, you know what.
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: Just zero in on something that we're all talking about.
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: You know, Cheryl McCollum, you say, tomato let's just say
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: I say tomato, you say tomato. But Zeeman, Josh Zeeman
• 50:11
  Speaker 1: says he got lazy, you say he got comfortable. Joe,
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: Jacquelone and bernarda Violona with me, Joe, isn't that always
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: the way? I mean, the first time I backed out
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: of our garage and nearly took off the side mirror, Well,
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: guess what, I don't even slow down. Now you become comfortable.
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: Some people might call it lazy, but isn't that the
• 50:36
  Speaker 1: way it always happens?
• 50:37
  Speaker 11: Well, I don't know if.
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: Go ahead, Joe, Jackoelone.
• 50:41
  Speaker 11: Yeah, I don't know if it's always that way. But
• 50:44
  Speaker 11: I always try to find because I have actually investigated
• 50:47
  Speaker 11: these kinds of cases, and you try to find where
• 50:50
  Speaker 11: that first or second one happened, because that's the time
• 50:54
  Speaker 11: when this individual made the most mistakes, and that's where you,
• 50:57
  Speaker 11: as an investigator, try to exploit that.
• 50:59
  Speaker 1: So right, and so.
• 51:02
  Speaker 11: We get arrogant.
• 51:03
  Speaker 12: Criminals never think they're going to get caught. I mean,
• 51:06
  Speaker 12: that's just the thing. I mean, when even with white
• 51:08
  Speaker 12: collar crimes, we see that increasingly they fail.
• 51:12
  Speaker 2: That's sit right there. That's it right there, is that
• 51:16
  Speaker 2: they never think they're going to get caught, and you
• 51:18
  Speaker 2: have to think that Rex Hureman, Remember he had over
• 51:22
  Speaker 2: a ten year had start on us because he did
• 51:24
  Speaker 2: not become a suspect until just last year, twenty twenty two.
• 51:28
  Speaker 2: So of course he thought he wasn't going to get caught.
• 51:30
  Speaker 2: That's why he continued acting the way that he was
• 51:33
  Speaker 2: acting and why the prosecution and law enforcement had to
• 51:36
  Speaker 2: move in to stop them, because they saw that he
• 51:38
  Speaker 2: was about to kill again.
• 51:39
  Speaker 1: Is Rex human responsible for many many more murders? We
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: wait as justice unfolds. Nancy gray sonning Off