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Microsoft Plans Data Center Push to Triple Its Computing Power · Bloomberg Intelligence

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  Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios. Podcasts.
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  Speaker 2: Radio.
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  Speaker 3: News.
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  Speaker 4: You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence Podcast. Catch us live
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  Speaker 4: weekdays at 10 a.m. Eastern on Apple CarPlay and Android
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  Speaker 4: you get your podcasts or watch us live on YouTube.
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  Speaker 5: Let's get to some of those tech earnings, Oracle and Adobe.
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  Speaker 5: We got an analyst who follows those companies, so that
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  Speaker 5: makes it very easy.
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  Speaker 1: Anurag Rana.
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  Speaker 5: He is a senior technology analyst for Bloomberg Intelligence. He's
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  Speaker 5: out there in Chicago. Anurag, let's start with Oracle here because, man,
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  Speaker 5: I saw their cloud business had a great number, and
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  Speaker 5: that's what I thought people were focusing on. The stock
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  Speaker 5: traded up 9% at the open, but it's kind of
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  Speaker 5: giving it back. What's going on there?
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  Speaker 6: Yeah, to be honest, it's a bit confusing because we
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  Speaker 6: really like the numbers.
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  Speaker 7: I mean, I think the.
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  Speaker 6: Cloud business was improving even more than what– the street
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  Speaker 6: was expecting and that's what had happened. I think the
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  Speaker 6: guidance for next quarter is also conservative. They should be
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  Speaker 6: able to beat that cloud numbers as well. I think
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  Speaker 6: what's happening over here is there is a little bit
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  Speaker 6: of uncertainty about data center expansion. you know, it's probably
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  Speaker 6: that's more macro, not related just to Oracle. And I
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  Speaker 6: think that could be one factor. The one thing that
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  Speaker 6: I liked about the earnings was that they actually said
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  Speaker 6: they're not going to have to raise CapEx because that
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  Speaker 6: has been my biggest worry when it relates to Oracle
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  Speaker 6: is that do.
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  Speaker 7: They have to keep on increasing CapEx?
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  Speaker 6: One of the things they're doing is they are asking
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  Speaker 6: customers to think about it, bring your own chips or
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  Speaker 6: bring your own hardware.
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  Speaker 7: This way, they don't have to foot the bill ahead
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  Speaker 7: of time.
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  Speaker 6: So It's really doing these arrangements are helping them out,
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  Speaker 6: but I think it's more the macro related about data
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  Speaker 6: center expansion in general.
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  Speaker 2: So our Bloomberg News story written by Brody Ford points
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  Speaker 2: out as well that gross margin shrank to 61%. And sequentially,
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  Speaker 2: that's a big drop because it was 66.3% in the
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  Speaker 2: previous quarter. Does that worry you, Anurag?
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  Speaker 7: Well, we have been modeling that for a while.
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  Speaker 6: I mean, it is normally a natural, whenever you have
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  Speaker 6: a brand new business starting in the infancy, it will
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  Speaker 6: have very low gross margins. But imagine this, they missed
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  Speaker 6: out massively on gross margins. I mean, compared to last year,
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  Speaker 6: I shouldn't say miss, but the gross margins dropped, but
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  Speaker 6: their operating margins improved. They have been cutting costs so
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  Speaker 6: well that they are actually showing, you know, very decent
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  Speaker 6: operating margin. So I personally would not worry about it
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  Speaker 6: because you're adding a lot of gross profit dollars to
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  Speaker 6: the company, which we would not get otherwise.
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  Speaker 5: All right, Anurag, we got to get the story of
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  Speaker 5: the day here. Microsoft here, Bloomberg's got a green B,
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  Speaker 5: which means they got exclusive reporting. Brody Ford, Matthew Day,
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  Speaker 5: Microsoft plans to more than triple It's data center capacity
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  Speaker 5: going from 38 gigawatts.
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  Speaker 1: I have no idea what a gigawatt is, but it
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  Speaker 1: sounds big.
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  Speaker 5: Up to, you know, I mean, it's going to be
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  Speaker 5: up from like 12 gigawatts now.
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  Speaker 1: What is going on there? Who's paying for that?
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  Speaker 7: I mean, they are paying for that.
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  Speaker 6: I mean, they're spending over close to $ 200 billion a
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  Speaker 6: year trying to do that. And in fact, you know,
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  Speaker 6: the gentleman they mentioned in the report, we had him
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  Speaker 6: on our podcast six months ago. And these guys really
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  Speaker 6: are changing the infrastructure of all of Microsoft data centers
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  Speaker 6: because the way you do GPU kind of computing or
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  Speaker 6: AI computing is very different than what you would do
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  Speaker 6: on a CPU-based or the older cloud-based. I mean, they
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  Speaker 6: have some really impressive data centers that are going on live.
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  Speaker 7: There is one in Texas.
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  Speaker 6: There is one in um wisconsin so they've done a
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  Speaker 6: very good job of managing it and right now whatever
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  Speaker 6: they actually can't do it in-house they are outsourcing it
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  Speaker 6: to neo clouds at this point so uh you know
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  Speaker 6: frankly speaking microsoft is in the middle of this is
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  Speaker 6: one of the biggest beneficiaries of ai um so you
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  Speaker 6: you know and and on top of that you know
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  Speaker 6: they will still be free cash flow positive.
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  Speaker 7: This year Okay.
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  Speaker 2: I mean, those are ambitious plans, but will they actually
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  Speaker 2: be able to do that given there's a lot of
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  Speaker 2: public opposition to data centers in local communities? I mean,
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  Speaker 2: it's one thing to say that this is what they
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  Speaker 2: want to do. Can it get done in the timeframe
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  Speaker 2: they want?
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  Speaker 6: I think that is the single biggest, you could say,
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  Speaker 6: obstacle right now, or the overhang, and not just Microsoft,
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  Speaker 6: but you can extend that to everybody, whether it's AWS, Google, Oracle,
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  Speaker 6: or the Neoclouds, is do they get the permits to
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  Speaker 6: be able to do it? Will they have the power?
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  Speaker 6: And so far, we have not seen any major, I
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  Speaker 6: would say, there have been delays, but not any massive delays.
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  Speaker 6: But frankly speaking, the opposition we are seeing right now,
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  Speaker 6: I would say across the board, not just with the Democrats,
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  Speaker 6: but Republicans as well, I think this is going to
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  Speaker 6: be a bigger.
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  Speaker 7: Issue that plays out over the next six to 12 months.
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  Speaker 6: And that is one thing I could, I think that
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  Speaker 6: is one thing that could, you know, soften the growth
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  Speaker 6: rate of some of these AI labs, as well as,
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  Speaker 6: you know, I would say just the entire AI trade
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  Speaker 6: in general.
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  Speaker 1: So is this in the numbers?
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  Speaker 5: I'm looking at the, I see CapEx ramping up on
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  Speaker 5: the Bloomberg terminal for Microsoft, but is.
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  Speaker 1: This kind of gigawatt expenditures? Is that in the numbers?
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  Speaker 6: I mean, right now, I think you have because you're
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  Speaker 6: looking at this year and next year. Almost everybody is
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  Speaker 6: increasing CapEx next year. In our own BI's projected data
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  Speaker 6: center model, we have CapEx going over the next few years.
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  Speaker 6: We are not tapering it down at this point because
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  Speaker 6: you have more backlog revenue on the balance sheets than
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  Speaker 6: they have the capacity.
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  Speaker 7: To fulfill it.
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  Speaker 6: And the math is, you know, one gigawatt costs somewhere around,
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  Speaker 6: depending on what kind of data center you're building, $ 40
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  Speaker 6: to $ 60 billion right now of an NVIDIA data center.
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  Speaker 7: Are you kidding?
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  Speaker 1: I don't know what these guys are doing. Big numbers
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  Speaker 1: either way.
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  Speaker 7: Big numbers. By the way, half of that goes to NVIDIA.
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  Speaker 7: Just think about it this way.
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  Speaker 6: Stay with us.
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  Speaker 2: More from Bloomberg Intelligence coming up after this.
• 5:52
  Speaker 4: You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence Podcast. Catch us live
• 5:56
  Speaker 4: weekdays at 10 a.m. Eastern on Apple CarPlay and Android
• 5:59
  Speaker 4: Auto with the Bloomberg Business App. Listen on demand wherever
• 6:02
  Speaker 4: you get your podcasts or watch us live on YouTube.
• 6:06
  Speaker 5: I'll tell you, when I first worked down in lower
• 6:08
  Speaker 5: Manhattan in the mid-' 80s, it was a ghost town. Man,
• 6:10
  Speaker 5: at 5 o'clock, everybody just kind of bailed.
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  Speaker 1: Maybe you had the South Street Seaport, but that was
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  Speaker 1: about it if you.
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  Speaker 7: Wanted some action.
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  Speaker 1: That was on the fringes of downtown, yeah.
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  Speaker 3: Yes, exactly.
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  Speaker 1: Now, that was good.
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  Speaker 5: We did some good stuff down there at South Street
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  Speaker 5: Seaport after work.
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  Speaker 1: But now it's just ripping down there.
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  Speaker 5: They did a phenomenal job renovating and rejuvenating the entire town.
• 6:28
  Speaker 5: southern tip of manhattan post 9-11 and we write about
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  Speaker 5: it on bloomberg news had a great great story amanda
• 6:35
  Speaker 5: gordon joins us here she's a reporter for the wealth
• 6:36
  Speaker 5: team at the bloomberg news joining us here in our
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  Speaker 5: studio amanda talk to us about what's going on in
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  Speaker 5: lower manhattan because boy post 9-11 it's not just that
• 6:45
  Speaker 5: the world trade center site it's just kind of lower
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  Speaker 5: manhattan in general has kind of been rejuvenated what's going
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  Speaker 5: on down.
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  Speaker 3: Exactly As this morning, as those names are being read,
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  Speaker 3: we think of a void that was created. And it
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  Speaker 3: really was one, to your point, that already existed. People
• 7:00
  Speaker 3: already felt that the uses of this downtown area were
• 7:06
  Speaker 3: not vital before 9-11. And so that void that was
• 7:11
  Speaker 3: created that day sort of spurred so many New Yorkers
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  Speaker 3: to get on board to think about how to reinvent.
• 7:18
  Speaker 3: And I just think it's so important reporting the story
• 7:21
  Speaker 3: to note that those who played a part in conversions
• 7:26
  Speaker 3: of those office buildings where you worked into residential, of
• 7:31
  Speaker 3: opening restaurants when it was a leap of faith, of
• 7:34
  Speaker 3: reopening businesses after 9-11, when people were scared to be
• 7:39
  Speaker 3: down there, All of that, there's just a sense of
• 7:42
  Speaker 3: pride now in what it has become, but also very
• 7:46
  Speaker 3: much indicative of a New York spirit of resilience and reinvention.
• 7:51
  Speaker 3: This was the land that George Washington and Alexander Hamilton
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  Speaker 3: also tread. And now the young people, the tech companies, Spotify, Uber, Amazon,
• 8:01
  Speaker 3: that are down there and making things happen in the
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  Speaker 3: New York way is a sign that we always reinvent ourselves.
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  Speaker 1: That was so elegantly put, Amanda.
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  Speaker 2: And I heard you about Spotify and some of the
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  Speaker 2: other companies that have really sprouted up and opened offices there.
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  Speaker 2: That gets to the point that Paul said basically it
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  Speaker 2: was the home of Wall Street and it was the
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  Speaker 2: financial district, but it's so much more than that now.
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  Speaker 1: I mean, finance is not even the.
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: It's still a big part of downtown Manhattan and lower Manhattan,
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  Speaker 2: but it's not dominant the way it once was.
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  Speaker 7: That's exactly true.
• 8:35
  Speaker 3: About a quarter of the office tenants in lower Manhattan
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  Speaker 3: are finance-related. Tech, AI, design, a lot of creative industries
• 8:44
  Speaker 3: have come in. And it's a place that is not
• 8:47
  Speaker 3: just to go to the office. It's a place where
• 8:50
  Speaker 3: people live and work. I talked to one 28-year-old who
• 8:56
  Speaker 3: said that he chose the building that he did because
• 8:59
  Speaker 3: the gym was open 24-7. And that was the critical thing.
• 9:03
  Speaker 3: So what happened is that pre-9-11 and then afterward... when
• 9:10
  Speaker 3: the responsibility was to make sure that we could remember
• 9:13
  Speaker 3: and honor those lives that were lost, there was just
• 9:17
  Speaker 3: a lot of energy and diversification that took place.
• 9:21
  Speaker 5: My 30-year-old daughter, she tells me, I'm going to go
• 9:24
  Speaker 5: meet some friends in Phi Di.
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: I'm like, what? Phi Di? What is the financial district?
• 9:29
  Speaker 5: You mean Wall Street? Is that what you're trying to
• 9:30
  Speaker 5: tell me? Apparently, it's a place young folks are going
• 9:33
  Speaker 5: to kind of meet for drinks and dinner. And I'm like, Dude,
• 9:36
  Speaker 5: you don't know what you're talking about, but all right.
• 9:37
  Speaker 7: That's the future.
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: That's what's going on down there.
• 9:40
  Speaker 3: Let's not forget the bones were there. Charm, gargoyles on
• 9:43
  Speaker 3: the buildings, old buildings that were not all torn down,
• 9:46
  Speaker 3: not a grid. So people who live down there, you know,
• 9:51
  Speaker 3: cite these elements of character and authenticity that they feel
• 9:56
  Speaker 3: that they don't see anymore in the rest of New York.
• 9:58
  Speaker 3: And then the transit.
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  Speaker 7: Being able to get to Brooklyn. I'll tell you, the Oculus.
• 10:02
  Speaker 3: Anywhere.
• 10:02
  Speaker 5: That thing, that Oculus Center down there. I mean, if
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  Speaker 5: you haven't been to that, that alone is a reason
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  Speaker 5: to go to Lower Manhattan. The Oculus, it is a
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  Speaker 5: transportation hub.
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  Speaker 1: I mean, you can get anywhere. I think like anywhere
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: in the world from there. I think that's a really
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  Speaker 1: good point.
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: The fact that you can get anywhere and the transportation options,
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: the public transportation options there are just phenomenal.
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: And that was always the case, wasn't it?
• 10:23
  Speaker 3: It was, but the Oculus, as you mentioned, the remaking
• 10:26
  Speaker 3: of the Fulton Street Station, everything was remade and made
• 10:31
  Speaker 3: much easier to use, much brighter. And that's an amenity
• 10:36
  Speaker 3: that cannot be beat for New Yorkers. Some get to
• 10:41
  Speaker 3: walk to work and some zip up to Midtown to
• 10:44
  Speaker 3: their office.
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: You spoke with Bill Rudin, who's co-executive chairman of a
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: real estate.
• 10:49
  Speaker 7: Company, Rudin?
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: And he was one of the key players who helped
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: diversify the area before 9-11.
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: What did he tell you?
• 10:58
  Speaker 3: Well, you know, the family has played such a role
• 11:02
  Speaker 3: at these critical times in my lifetime. In the 70s,
• 11:06
  Speaker 3: his father helped New York through fiscal crisis. And then
• 11:09
  Speaker 3: in this moment, in 1990, it was a Valentine's Day massacre,
• 11:13
  Speaker 3: he told me, when Drexel Burnham went bankrupt. And they
• 11:17
  Speaker 3: occupied most of the building that he had built initially
• 11:21
  Speaker 3: for Goldman Sachs. And he talked about mothballing it until
• 11:26
  Speaker 3: the market turned around. And I think that shows you
• 11:29
  Speaker 3: how bleak the outlook was. But what happened is that,
• 11:33
  Speaker 3: as in the 70s, business leaders got together and really
• 11:36
  Speaker 3: decided to put their brains to this idea of diversification.
• 11:41
  Speaker 3: And in that building, 55 Broad Street, they wired it.
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: They put in broadband, fiber optics.
• 11:47
  Speaker 3: The New York New Media Association opened their first office there,
• 11:52
  Speaker 3: and it became sort of the initial hub and promotion
• 11:56
  Speaker 3: of New York as a Silicon Alley, sort of the
• 12:00
  Speaker 3: downtown anchor of that new corridor, which we've seen flourish
• 12:05
  Speaker 3: so much. And so... He laid down those roots, and
• 12:08
  Speaker 3: I think it's very moving in the story that he said,
• 12:11
  Speaker 3: you know, it's taken these 25 years to get recognized
• 12:15
  Speaker 3: for that early work.
• 12:16
  Speaker 5: Very good stuff. 25 Broad Street was one of my
• 12:18
  Speaker 5: first offices at Payne Webber. And that was just when
• 12:21
  Speaker 5: computers were coming in. We didn't have enough outlets to
• 12:24
  Speaker 5: plug in the computers because the building was built in
• 12:26
  Speaker 5: like the 1800s.
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: They weren't really thinking about computers anymore.
• 12:29
  Speaker 3: I worked as a journalist a few blocks north. Our
• 12:31
  Speaker 3: offices opened in 2002. And there were days when the
• 12:35
  Speaker 3: phones didn't work because things were being rebuilt and it
• 12:38
  Speaker 3: was chaos.
• 12:39
  Speaker 8: And you just had to go with it.
• 12:40
  Speaker 7: Stay with us.
• 12:41
  Speaker 4: More from Bloomberg Intelligence coming up after this. You're listening
• 12:48
  Speaker 4: to the Bloomberg Intelligence Podcast. Catch us live weekdays at
• 12:52
  Speaker 4: 10 a.m. Eastern on Apple CarPlay and Android Auto with
• 12:55
  Speaker 4: the Bloomberg Business App. Listen on demand wherever you get
• 12:58
  Speaker 4: your podcasts or watch us live on YouTube.
• 13:02
  Speaker 5: Jonathan Schanzer, he's an executive director at the Foundation for
• 13:05
  Speaker 5: Defense of Democracies based down there in Washington, D.C.
• 13:09
  Speaker 7: D.C.
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  Speaker 5: Jonathan, thanks so much for joining us here. As we remember, 9-11,
• 13:14
  Speaker 5: 25 years on. What are some of the key lessons
• 13:18
  Speaker 5: from just a geopolitical sense, an anti-terrorism sense? What are
• 13:23
  Speaker 5: some of the lessons that you think this country has taken?
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: Maybe what we still need to do.
• 13:28
  Speaker 8: Yeah, first of all, thank you for having me. And
• 13:31
  Speaker 8: it's obviously meaningful for me today to be on this program.
• 13:35
  Speaker 8: This is an event that obviously shaped American history over
• 13:39
  Speaker 8: the last 25 years and I think continues to. I
• 13:44
  Speaker 8: think the first takeaway here is that we needed to
• 13:47
  Speaker 8: take these threats seriously when they first began to materialize.
• 13:51
  Speaker 8: We saw the 1993 World Trade Center bombing. We saw
• 13:54
  Speaker 8: the 1998 Twin Embassy bombings, the 2000 attack on the
• 13:59
  Speaker 8: USS Cullen. We did not put the pieces together that
• 14:03
  Speaker 8: an enemy had waged or has declared war on us.
• 14:07
  Speaker 8: And we just kept waiting for the attacks to get
• 14:09
  Speaker 8: worse over time. I think that when you start to
• 14:12
  Speaker 8: see an enemy declare war and to follow up on it,
• 14:16
  Speaker 8: that you need to take action. And I would argue
• 14:18
  Speaker 8: that there were two presidents in a row that didn't
• 14:21
  Speaker 8: take the threat seriously enough. The first was Bill Clinton.
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: Then, of course, George W.
• 14:25
  Speaker 8: Bush didn't move quickly enough and then had to move
• 14:28
  Speaker 8: more quickly than he ever thought he would need to.
• 14:30
  Speaker 8: So taking those threats seriously as they emerge, I'd argue
• 14:34
  Speaker 8: we didn't even learn that when ISIS emerged. We were
• 14:37
  Speaker 8: still thinking that it was a minor threat This is
• 14:39
  Speaker 8: a consistent theme in American history. But I think the
• 14:45
  Speaker 8: other thing that we still struggle with to this day
• 14:47
  Speaker 8: is just getting our heads wrapped around the ideology of
• 14:51
  Speaker 8: jihadism or militant Islam. It's a minority interpretation of the faith.
• 14:56
  Speaker 8: There's no question. But it is still, after all these years,
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  Speaker 8: something that we are having a hard time getting our
• 15:02
  Speaker 8: heads wrapped around. It is playing a role right now
• 15:05
  Speaker 8: in the Middle East conflicts that we're grappling with, all
• 15:07
  Speaker 8: the different Iranian proxy groups, not to mention Iran itself.
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  Speaker 8: I'm looking at the Houthis right now as they look
• 15:13
  Speaker 8: to expand their war in the Middle East. We still
• 15:16
  Speaker 8: don't seem to understand how to defeat these groups. Admittedly,
• 15:21
  Speaker 8: they don't want to surrender, but that's part of the problem.
• 15:24
  Speaker 8: This is a martyrdom complex, a sense that they need
• 15:26
  Speaker 8: to continue to fight to the finish. And we have
• 15:29
  Speaker 8: not adjusted our way of war to figuring out how
• 15:32
  Speaker 8: to defeat this problem long term. And my sense is
• 15:35
  Speaker 8: we're going to have to continue to grapple with this,
• 15:38
  Speaker 8: even as we pivot into great power competition with China
• 15:41
  Speaker 8: and Russia. I don't think that these smaller conflicts are
• 15:44
  Speaker 8: going to go away. They're going to become potentially even
• 15:47
  Speaker 8: more of an irritant.
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: Jonathan, you previously worked as a terrorism finance analyst at
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: the Department of Treasury, where you followed and froze the
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: funding of Hamas and al-Qaeda. We now have different forms
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: of funding that is less traceable. Crypto, for instance. You
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: have a gray market, a black market. How does that
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: complicate our efforts to follow the money, so to speak?
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  Speaker 8: Oh, it is absolutely more complicated than it was when
• 16:13
  Speaker 8: I was doing this, you know, some 20 years ago.
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  Speaker 8: Back then, it was much more simple, right? I mean,
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  Speaker 8: you know, people were still dealing in cash, which is,
• 16:21
  Speaker 8: I think, still the preferred way of terrorists to move money.
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  Speaker 8: But yes, now we have various means of crypto trading.
• 16:29
  Speaker 8: And it's a lot easier in many ways to create
• 16:31
  Speaker 8: cutouts and front companies than it was even back then,
• 16:34
  Speaker 8: even though we've got greater tools to be able to
• 16:38
  Speaker 8: track some of this stuff. But yes, I would argue
• 16:41
  Speaker 8: that terrorists are getting more creative here. It's also important
• 16:44
  Speaker 8: to understand that, you know, there are state sponsors that
• 16:48
  Speaker 8: continue to front these terror organizations and move money on
• 16:52
  Speaker 8: their behalf. You know, I look at China. That's one example.
• 16:57
  Speaker 8: Russia is another. North Korea has been a perennial problem. Iran, obviously,
• 17:02
  Speaker 8: although I think that Operation Economic Outcast is certainly constraining
• 17:08
  Speaker 8: their ability to move money in this way. But yes,
• 17:10
  Speaker 8: crypto is a growing problem. Crowdfunding platforms are a big problem.
• 17:16
  Speaker 8: One of the things that I look at right now is,
• 17:18
  Speaker 8: have we done a good enough job of purging the
• 17:21
  Speaker 8: bad apples from just the American nonprofit sector, the 501c3s
• 17:25
  Speaker 8: that have a license to operate here? My sense is
• 17:29
  Speaker 8: that we've not done enough to purge. We were so
• 17:32
  Speaker 8: good looking abroad, but I think we've kind of taken
• 17:35
  Speaker 8: our eye off the ball on the terror finance problem
• 17:39
  Speaker 8: here at home. That is going to be one of
• 17:41
  Speaker 8: the things we have to address in the months and
• 17:44
  Speaker 8: years to come.
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: Jonathan, do economic sanctions work.
• 17:49
  Speaker 8: They do, but they only work as much as you're
• 17:52
  Speaker 8: willing to ensure that they are adhered to by all.
• 17:57
  Speaker 8: One of the things that I've been marveling at is
• 18:00
  Speaker 8: the success, at least so far, of this new sanctions
• 18:04
  Speaker 8: regime that we've put in place against the Islamic Republic
• 18:08
  Speaker 8: of Iran. It's actually not new at all. There's nothing
• 18:11
  Speaker 8: new or innovative about what we're doing. We're just simply
• 18:14
  Speaker 8: making sure that these sanctions are adhered to in jurisdictions
• 18:18
  Speaker 8: that were ignoring our sanctions guidance. So I think right
• 18:24
  Speaker 8: now about the UAE, a friend of the United States
• 18:26
  Speaker 8: that continued to allow for Iranian assets to move through
• 18:31
  Speaker 8: their banks and through their businesses, the Turks, NATO allies,
• 18:35
  Speaker 8: that had banks that were openly operating on behalf of
• 18:39
  Speaker 8: the Islamic Republic. In fact, one bank moved $ 20 billion
• 18:43
  Speaker 8: in cash and gold during the height of our effort
• 18:46
  Speaker 8: to sanction the nuclear program of Iran back in 2012
• 18:50
  Speaker 8: to 2015. Iraq is another jurisdiction that we need to
• 18:54
  Speaker 8: be aware of. Malaysia, Indonesia. These are all areas and
• 18:59
  Speaker 8: countries where we have alliances. And we have an understanding
• 19:03
  Speaker 8: with these governments, but they have not been enforcing our sanctions.
• 19:07
  Speaker 8: So now we're really starting to button all of this down.
• 19:12
  Speaker 8: And we've made it serious that nobody gets a free pass.
• 19:15
  Speaker 8: That's great. But why did it take so long? Why
• 19:19
  Speaker 8: can't we make these sanctions work the first time, bankrupt
• 19:22
  Speaker 8: our enemies, force them to come to the table and
• 19:24
  Speaker 8: get the capitulation that we were looking for?
• 19:27
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• 19:36
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• 19:44
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