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Is California’s ICE crackdown about more than immigration? · This Week On ICE

• 0:00
  [music]
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  SPEAKER_02: Welcome to This Week On ICE.
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  SPEAKER_02: I'm here with Courier,
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  SPEAKER_02: California journalist Michelle Zacarias,
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  SPEAKER_02: who is an LA-based reporter and two-time cancer survivor covering politics,
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  SPEAKER_02: immigration, civic engagement, and health inequity.
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  SPEAKER_02: Her reporting has been seen in the LA Times, Prism,
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  SPEAKER_02: Truthout,
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  SPEAKER_02: Teen Vogue,
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  SPEAKER_02: City Bureau,
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  SPEAKER_02: LA Public
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  SPEAKER_03: Press, and her own podcast called the Latino Newsletter Podcast.
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  SPEAKER_02: This week,
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  SPEAKER_02: we're focusing on California,
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  SPEAKER_02: a state that's become a major battleground in the national debate
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  SPEAKER_02: over immigration enforcement,
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  SPEAKER_02: voting rights, and the fight for political power ahead of the midterm elections.
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  SPEAKER_02: Michelle and I are going to start with Operation Safe California.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_02: A 45-day immigration enforcement surge reportedly launched earlier this month by ICE
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  SPEAKER_02: across Central and Southern California.
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  SPEAKER_02: The reported timeline for the operation extends through the midterm elections on November 3rd.
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  SPEAKER_02: And speaking of elections,
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  SPEAKER_02: we'll turn to the escalating legal battle between California
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  SPEAKER_02: and President Trump's Department of Justice.
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  SPEAKER_02: Federal officials have recently focused on the state as part of a broader effort
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  SPEAKER_02: to investigate alleged non-citizen voting.
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  SPEAKER_02: In the past few days,
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  SPEAKER_02: federal prosecutors have called on California election officials to verify a list
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  SPEAKER_02: of roughly 20,000 ballots tied to suspected noncitizens.
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  SPEAKER_02: Now, as we've discussed on this podcast before,
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  SPEAKER_02: noncitizen voting is extremely rare,
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  SPEAKER_02: but the Justice Department has stepped up prosecutions of people accused
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  SPEAKER_02: of voting illegally without U.S. citizenship.
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  SPEAKER_02: California election officials,
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  SPEAKER_02: meanwhile,
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  SPEAKER_02: Argue that the administration's directive is politically motivated in bad faith
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  SPEAKER_02: and could put eligible citizens' voting rights at risk.
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  SPEAKER_02: Lots to discuss today.
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  SPEAKER_02: Michelle, welcome to the show.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you so much for having me.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_03: There's a lot happening in California.
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  SPEAKER_03: It's an extremely politically volatile state.
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  SPEAKER_03: There's a couple of key districts that hold national stakes.
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  SPEAKER_03: And as you might know,
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  SPEAKER_03: it's one of the main reasons that they're so closely watched right now is
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  SPEAKER_03: because there's a couple of districts that have the potential to flip The House back
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  SPEAKER_03: in the Democratic favor.
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  SPEAKER_03: So there's a couple of areas that we can talk about that have been really pertinent
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  SPEAKER_03: to our coverage at Courier California.
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  SPEAKER_03: One of them is California or California District 22.
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  SPEAKER_03: That's kind of like in the Central Valley.
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  SPEAKER_03: And the other one is California 48.
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  SPEAKER_03: And that one is more in Southern California that encompasses areas of like San Diego
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  SPEAKER_03: and now some new redistricting areas of Palm Springs.
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  SPEAKER_03: And a lot of these regions have been recently redrawn through Proposition 50,
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  SPEAKER_03: which is why they're going through these major electoral changes.
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  SPEAKER_02: So there are a couple of consequential California districts.
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  SPEAKER_02: And can you make that connection between this ICE surge right now and
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  SPEAKER_02: then these districts that are also kind of up for a lot of debate and consequence
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  SPEAKER_02: during the midterm elections?
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  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so,
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  SPEAKER_03: you know,
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  SPEAKER_03: one of the things that I really emphasize when I talk about
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  SPEAKER_03: a reporting is like there is an ICE search going on right now,
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  SPEAKER_03: but that overall presence of ICE and Border Patrol has never changed in California,
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  SPEAKER_03: right?
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  SPEAKER_03: It has been consistent and in some areas it's actually been record-breaking.
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  SPEAKER_03: Like in San Diego,
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  SPEAKER_03: there was a report that was released recently that showed that,
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  SPEAKER_03: you know, the numbers compared to last year have actually increased.
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  SPEAKER_03: So, you know, I think one of the misconceptions is that there was kind of a lull.
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  SPEAKER_03: And meanwhile, these communities at the local level have continued to come under attack.
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  SPEAKER_03: So, you know,
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  SPEAKER_03: when it comes to ICE launching their 45-day crackdown,
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  SPEAKER_03: it's very politically strategic, right?
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  SPEAKER_03: We heard that there was this Operation Save California enacted by
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  SPEAKER_03: the Trump administration through insider sources.
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  SPEAKER_03: And essentially,
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  SPEAKER_03: it targets these areas of California
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  SPEAKER_03: that encompass really important electoral districts.
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  SPEAKER_03: So we know that,
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  SPEAKER_03: you know,
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  SPEAKER_03: they started down in San Diego,
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  SPEAKER_03: they're targeting areas there,
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  SPEAKER_03: but they're also moving their way upstate towards the Central Valley.
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  SPEAKER_03: So we're seeing raids happening in these like hot pockets across the state.
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  SPEAKER_02: When it comes to the kind of political consequences,
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  SPEAKER_02: what are you thinking may be the suspected endgame that nobody
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  SPEAKER_02: from these districts go to the polls?
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  SPEAKER_02: Do they want a chilling effect?
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  SPEAKER_02: Do they...
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  SPEAKER_02: Want to send a message.
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  SPEAKER_02: Ultimately,
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  SPEAKER_02: what is the federal government possibly getting at
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  SPEAKER_02: in targeting such consequential districts?
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  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I think it's an intimidation tactic, right?
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  SPEAKER_03: It's not a coincidence that they're coinciding this surge with
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  SPEAKER_03: the early voting opening in California and civil rights groups have said,
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  SPEAKER_03: you know, that we're weeks away from the midterm elections.
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  SPEAKER_03: So suddenly we're seeing reports of ICE activity near polling sites.
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  SPEAKER_03: So it is 100% an intimidation tactic.
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  SPEAKER_03: I think a lot of people might have questions about why this is a specific type of tactic.
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  SPEAKER_03: Someone is registered to vote and they're legally authorized to do so.
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  SPEAKER_03: Why would it matter?
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  SPEAKER_03: And the reality is that a lot of these federal agents don't care about that, right?
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  SPEAKER_03: Like they don't care about the laws.
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  SPEAKER_03: They don't care about regulations.
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  SPEAKER_03: They've been given free range to openly profile people based on their physical appearance.
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  SPEAKER_03: And so even if you are legally authorized to vote,
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  SPEAKER_03: It just feels like a really uncertain and scary moment.
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  SPEAKER_03: And so we're seeing a lot of talking points right now from voting advocacy groups
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  SPEAKER_03: and voter education groups basically saying,
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  SPEAKER_03: you know, Go and fill out your ballot early and then take it to the drop box.
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  SPEAKER_03: Do everything you can to make sure that you're ahead of the curve in terms of voting.
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  SPEAKER_03: Obviously,
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  SPEAKER_03: educate yourself on the candidates and the ballot measures,
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  SPEAKER_03: but make sure you're giving yourself enough time and be prepared.
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  SPEAKER_03: Be prepared for anything that could possibly happen.
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  SPEAKER_03: I give the example of what happened recently in Long Beach,
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  SPEAKER_03: California,
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  SPEAKER_03: where There was a U.S.
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  SPEAKER_03: citizen named Ricardo Gonzalez who was essentially targeted and assaulted
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  SPEAKER_03: by federal officers.
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  SPEAKER_03: And he was just riding his e-bike around in his neighborhood, minding his business.
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  SPEAKER_03: And an unmarked federal vehicle was going down the wrong way on a one-way street
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  SPEAKER_03: and boxed him in and assaulted him.
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  SPEAKER_03: And the neighbors came out,
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  SPEAKER_03: they recorded, they,
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  SPEAKER_03: you know,
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  SPEAKER_03: made sure that like There was community support and people there to document
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  SPEAKER_03: the incident,
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  SPEAKER_03: but I think this is just one example of the way in
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  SPEAKER_03: which these federal agencies are just allowed to sort of reign free
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  SPEAKER_03: without consequences and terrorize these communities.
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  SPEAKER_02: We've talked a bit about the political consequence and you're hinting now at
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  SPEAKER_02: the real human impact as well,
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  SPEAKER_02: as we have seen in ICE searches all over the country, not just in California.
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  SPEAKER_02: When there's a confirmed ICE operation,
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  SPEAKER_02: local businesses in majority immigrant communities
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  SPEAKER_02: and neighborhoods really struggle.
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  SPEAKER_02: And even schools see more absences.
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  SPEAKER_02: Immigrant families may even postpone going to the doctor.
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  SPEAKER_02: That's what we've seen historically.
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  SPEAKER_02: When we look at this particular ICE operation,
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  SPEAKER_02: what are you seeing in terms of kind of the human impact and also
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  SPEAKER_02: who is being targeted if there is indeed some sort of pattern?
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  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I mean,
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  SPEAKER_03: the reality is black and brown people,
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  SPEAKER_03: people who look like they are of ethnic backgrounds,
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  SPEAKER_03: who might have any kind of hint that they might not be like your typical...
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  SPEAKER_03: White, Anglo-Saxon American, and that's just the reality, right?
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  SPEAKER_03: We do know that in terms of detainments and deportations,
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  SPEAKER_03: that's disproportionately impacting Latino folks,
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  SPEAKER_03: it's disproportionately impacting API folks,
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  SPEAKER_03: it's even impacting Black communities, especially like Haitian communities.
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  SPEAKER_03: A lot of this is racialized state-sanctioned violence.
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  SPEAKER_03: It's very targeted and so that's why I think a lot of people are existing kind of
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  SPEAKER_03: in this place of fear and uncertainty,
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  SPEAKER_03: even people that have quote unquote done it the right way.
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  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, right now we're seeing these specific communities targeted.
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  SPEAKER_03: If you look at like maps of where these raids are happening,
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  SPEAKER_03: disproportionately like low income Latino communities throughout Southern
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  SPEAKER_03: California.
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  SPEAKER_03: Working class communities too, right?
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  SPEAKER_03: And I think that is really telling because there is an intentionality, right?
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  SPEAKER_03: Like a lot of times the framing of the way that the raids are covered in
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  SPEAKER_03: the news makes it sound like it's kind of just like widespread.
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  SPEAKER_03: It's absolutely not.
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  SPEAKER_03: They are very intentional and very specific about the way they're going after people.
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  SPEAKER_02: Who have been some of the major watchdogs and organizations
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  SPEAKER_02: that are helping document and really quantify this particular operation
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  SPEAKER_02: at this time?
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  SPEAKER_02: And how are they identifying and really verifying these arrests and raids?
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  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I mean,
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  SPEAKER_03: that's a great question because there's so many groups
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  SPEAKER_03: that are doing like rapid response on the ground information sharing
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  SPEAKER_03: as it's happening, right?
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  SPEAKER_03: And so one of the big ones has been stopice.net,
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  SPEAKER_03: which is actually ran by a coder, Sherman Austin, who's based out of Long Beach.
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  SPEAKER_03: And he does a lot of not just coverage of actual raids that they're happening
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  SPEAKER_03: and abductions that they're happening.
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  SPEAKER_03: He also has the app.
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  SPEAKER_03: That people can submit reports to.
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  SPEAKER_03: Another organization that has been on the front lines that has also been targeted by
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  SPEAKER_03: the federal government is BC Defensa.
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  SPEAKER_03: They've been doing incredible work even prior to Trump's administration.
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  SPEAKER_03: And we have
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  SPEAKER_03: seen it gotten worse under Trump's administration, especially Trump 2.0.
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  SPEAKER_03: But a lot of these like skill sets
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  SPEAKER_03: and information sharing techniques were actually established
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  SPEAKER_03: under presidents like Biden and under presidents like Obama
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  SPEAKER_03: who were still enacting raids in different communities as well.
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  SPEAKER_02: And for those that are getting ready to vote,
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  SPEAKER_02: to have the legal right to vote in this country,
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  SPEAKER_02: what do you recommend that they do to keep themselves safe,
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  SPEAKER_02: their loved ones safe,
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_02: if they do actually want to exercise their right to vote right now?
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah,
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  SPEAKER_03: I think that a lot of these voter education organizations have done a great job of,
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  SPEAKER_03: you know,
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  SPEAKER_03: directing people to voter guides,
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_03: directing people to information that will help them kind of better prepare.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_03: And we We even at Courier have been sending out graphics
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_03: about early voting deadlines and mail-in ballot deadlines,
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  SPEAKER_03: things like that, just to keep people informed.
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  SPEAKER_03: And so the more time that you give people to assess,
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  SPEAKER_03: you know,
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  SPEAKER_03: what candidates they want to vote for,
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  SPEAKER_03: what measures they want to vote for,
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  SPEAKER_03: the more able they're going to be able to kind of set up the necessary precautions
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_03: for themselves.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_03: You know,
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  SPEAKER_03: it's no secret that,
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
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  SPEAKER_03: a lot of people have concerns about the mail-in ballots right now,
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  SPEAKER_03: but there's alternatives to that.
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  SPEAKER_03: There's ballot boxes that you can walk to.
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  SPEAKER_03: You can search up your nearest ones in your area online.
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  SPEAKER_03: Or you can show up the day of to vote and if you're feeling really confident about
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_03: that, make sure that you're there early.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_03: And I believe In the state of California,
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_03: there is a law that makes it so that your boss has to allow a certain amount of time
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_03: for you to go vote if it falls on a work day.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_03: And I think it's like at the end of a shift,
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_03: you're allowed like two hours or something like that.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_03: But you know,
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_03: there's like all of these policies in place to help people get out
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_03: and have their voices heard.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_02: We'll be sure to link to your coverage and your newsroom in our newsletter for folks
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_02: that are curious about how they're able to vote if they are in the state
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_02: of California.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_02: Before we move on to our next topic,
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  SPEAKER_02: I wanted to leave the floor to any things that you're recently covering or that
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_02: The Courier is recently covering that we weren't able to touch on when it comes
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_02: to this particular ICE surge.
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  SPEAKER_03: The coverage is nonstop,
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  SPEAKER_03: and I think one of the difficulties is that And we've seen kind of a lull
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  SPEAKER_03: in coverage, right?
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  SPEAKER_03: And that's why I was saying that the raids haven't stopped, but the coverage has lulled.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_03: And I think part of it is that we're not seeing the same employment tactics.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_03: So we saw at the very beginning,
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_03: there was kind of this like hyper militarized presence,
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_03: especially in Southern California,
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_03: and it's made its way across California,
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_03: where we had The National Guard and the U.S.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_03: Marines and every police department,
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_03: they were all kind of creating this sort of sensationalized version
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_03: of what was happening in various residential communities.
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  SPEAKER_03: Those raids are still happening now.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_03: And even though the National Guard is gone and the U.S.
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  SPEAKER_03: Marines are gone,
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  SPEAKER_03: federal agents are still there terrorizing these local communities.
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  SPEAKER_03: And so I think one of the things that I try to reiterate often is that
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  SPEAKER_03: if you are doing really good local coverage and you're tapping into
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_03: the various neighborhoods and residential areas across the state,
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_03: you will have these stories of people who are desperately trying to reconnect
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_03: with their loved ones,
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_03: figure out how to get legal support for their friends and families who are locked up
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_03: at Adelanto,
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_03: The detention center,
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_03: and even the folks who are locked up inside are fighting desperately
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_03: for just basic things like clean water and access to legal resources and just ways
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_03: to, you know, support themselves while they continue to fight their cases.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_03: And so there's a lot happening on all of these different fronts.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_03: And like the best way to plug into that is by support.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_03: You're supporting a local news outlet, right?
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_03: There are so many of them across California.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_03: I don't have time to name them all, but there's been some incredible reporting.
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  SPEAKER_03: Not all of it is about raids.
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  SPEAKER_03: The aftermath of a lot of these raids leave families desecrated.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_03: And so what happens after is just as important as what's happening in the moment.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_02: We now have to turn to the Justice Department,
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_02: which has recently warned California election officials that they face legal trouble
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_02: if they refuse to help identify suspected quote, non-citizen voters, end quote.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_02: So much has happened in so little time with regards to this particular story,
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_02: so Michelle, a lot of our readers are not necessarily from California.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_02: They might not be even following this news development.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_02: So just give us the basics.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_02: What is happening here?
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_02: And what is this list of like so-called non-citizen voters in California?
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I mean,
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_03: it's very soap opera-ish because,
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_03: as you know, Trump absolutely hates California and has made it kind of its target.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_03: And so the DOJ had,
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_03: filed a suit against California around October 15th,
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_03: claiming that the state had failed to review a list of suspected non-citizens
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_03: who received mail-in ballots for the upcoming midterm election.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_03: And the It was extremely suspicious circumstances because the DOJ issued
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_03: a 48-hour deadline just 21 days before Election Day.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_03: They sent LA County a thumb drive with a list of allegedly non-citizen voters on their rolls.
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  SPEAKER_03: The federal government,
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_03: the federal government,
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  SPEAKER_03: delivered this list on a thumb drive with the password that was written on
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_03: a sticky note.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_03: So, you know, there were a lot of questions about the validity of this list.
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  SPEAKER_03: And California Secretary of State Shirley Weber,
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_03: popped off on them and basically sent this long letter questioning the validity of
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_03: the claims.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_03: And in this letter, she asked how the data was verified.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_03: What was the methodology?
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_03: How was it compiled?
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_03: Because according to her assessment,
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_03: it was extremely vague and felt very unsubstantiated in terms of allegations.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_03: So the DOJ obviously has not actually provided anything credible.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_03: And they continue to kind of try to spin this narrative
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_03: that there's all this voter fraud going on because It's kind of like laying
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_03: the groundwork for what is essentially their inevitable loss, right?
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_03: Like they feel like if they lose,
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_03: they can say,
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_03: well, there's all this voter fraud and this election was stolen from us.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_03: And we've seen it before.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_03: We've seen Trump spin that same narrative before.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_03: So of course, why wouldn't he lean back into that same tactic now?
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_02: And so when it comes to this list of 20,000 alleged non-citizen voters,
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_02: you know, California saying that these are unsubstantiated claims.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_02: What is the process now?
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_02: Are they trying to verify this list?
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_02: How are they so certain that this is an unsubstantiated claim?
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_02: Where are we on that?
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, you know, that's a great question.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_03: How are they so certain?
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_03: Nobody knows.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_03: That's the questions that people are asking that they're not getting answers for.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_03: And, you know, it's a lot of legal back and forth.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_03: Like, you know, I can get into the jargon of it.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_03: At the end of the day,
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_03: it's them saying you guys are, you know, not investigating voter fraud enough.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_03: It's the state of California saying this is crazy.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_03: Like this is a non-issue and it's been a non-issue.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_03: And then there's like a lot of Strongly worded letters going back and forth
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_03: and obviously some tweets in there too.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_03: So, you know, it's extremely, it's kind of absurd.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_03: It's giving idiocracy a little bit.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know if you've ever watched that movie,
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_03: but it feels very aligned with what's happening right now with our government.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_03: And, you know,
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_03: even in LA County,
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_03: I think it was like 28 green card holders in California were charged
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_03: for fraudulently registering to vote and casting illegal ballots, right?
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_03: And then just in LA County, like that amount proved to be like really insignificant.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_03: And the federal government arrested more registered Republicans than Democrats
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_03: in voter fraud sweep that happened in LA County.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_03: So even looking at the details of like what's coming out,
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_03: it seems extremely just,
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_03: like they're trying to throw anything against the wall,
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_03: hoping that something sticks, you know?
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_02: When it comes to this,
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_02: the registered Republicans and the green card holders that they were able
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_02: to identify, you know, when did this occur?
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_02: And then of the people that they've identified, what are these people then facing consequences?
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_02: Are they in some type of limbo now?
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_02: What is that looking like?
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I think you would have to look at each individual case.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_03: There was actually pretty good reporting on one of the individuals who was arrested.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_03: And I forget his name, so I would have to look it up and fact check it.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_03: But he, you know, spoke to the news.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_03: He was just like, I never imagined that this would happen to me.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_03: And I believe he was a registered Republican,
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_03: but he's been a naturalized citizen for many, many years.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_03: So I think,
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_03: A lot of people are kind of in this weird legal limbo or gray area,
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_03: but again,
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_03: the number of people that are Found guilty of,
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_03: I guess, fraudulently registering to vote is so, so, so small.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_03: Like, even if all,
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_03: I think,
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_03: 28 of the people that were green card holders that were charged,
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_03: that would be like 28 out of what, like 23 million Californians.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_03: That's 85% of eligible adults in California are registered to vote.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_03: So if all 28 were found guilty,
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_03: let's like play devil's advocate,
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_03: that would still be like 0.000012179% of the vote, something very, very small.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_03: So, you know,
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_03: you can give people these numbers to kind of just drive home that, like,
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_03: this is not a significant enough number of people that would flip any kind
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_03: of electoral, like, vote.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_02: As we look toward the midterm elections and this particular case,
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_02: where do you see this developing in the future?
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_02: And what kind of consequences do we see from this story?
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_02: Should it continue at the pace and development that it's going?
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I mean, it's all interconnected, right?
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_03: The ICE crackdown,
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_03: the attempts to create this fraudulent voter narrative and spin it into
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_03: a larger issue.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_03: And the fact of the matter is that it all just comes down to Prop 50, right?
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_03: We knew That Prop 50 redrew a number of districts in California, as I mentioned.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_03: So there's a very real possibility that California 22, California 48 might flip blue.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_03: And that would mean that the Democrats regain control of Congress.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_03: So, you know, the House has 435 members going into the 2026 midterms.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_03: And there are 218 Republicans and 213 Democrats, right?
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_03: And there's like one independent and four vacancies.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_03: But
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_03: The voters,
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_03: if they shift even five seats from Republican to Democrats in the midterm elections,
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_03: then the Democrats basically get the majority and flip the house.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_03: And that feels like such a high stakes situation for the Republicans
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_03: who have had We've had control of all of the branches of government for so long.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_03: And so, you know,
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_03: we're seeing now these very,
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_03: like, intentional and concerted efforts to, like, stifle that.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_03: Very undemocratic.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_03: And, you know, also the direct attacks to the media are directly related to that.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_03: They're a byproduct of that as well.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_02: What's on your radar right now as a local journalist covering LA extensively?
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, it's not unreported,
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_03: but I think the big spotlight ballot measure is Prop 40,
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_03: right, which is the billionaire tax.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_03: And it is essentially just like a one-time 5% tax on like California's 200-ish billionaires.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_03: And so there's this really interesting division amongst people about this specific ballot.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_03: And If you look at kind of the arguments made on both sides,
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_03: it's fascinating because it's not all Democratic and Republican.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_03: There's actually some huge Democratic elected officials like Gavin Newsom,
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_03: who's our governor, who opposed Prop 40.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_03: And there is a number of reasons why people have theorized that he doesn't support it.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_03: He says publicly that he feels like taxing billionaires is going to drive
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_03: the billionaires and business out of California and that he would,
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_03: in theory,
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_03: support something at the federal level so
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_03: that these billionaires couldn't just run out of state, right?
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_03: And I recently interviewed one of the architects of Prop 40 and one of
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_03: the co-authors and he was like,
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_03: I absolutely think that Gavin Newsom is just opposing this because he is depending
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_03: on the billionaire donor class to fund his presidential campaign.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_03: And so, you know,
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_03: there's a lot of like spicy tea behind the scenes of like,
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_03: why is this,
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_03: why is this Democrat not supporting,
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_03: why aren't these unions supporting this measure, you know?
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_03: And a big chunk of the money was supposed to be redirected to healthcare services.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_03: So there's like unions that don't support it
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_03: because they feel like they should also get a cut of the pie.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_03: And there's other people who don't support it because they're afraid they're going
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_03: to drive jobs and businesses out of California.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_03: But If you look at the reporting and the numbers,
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_03: you see that there's actually so much money,
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_03: primarily from billionaires, going into squashing this measure.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_03: They have spent insane amounts of money instead of just
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_02: paying the tax.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_03: They're trying to squash this tax.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_03: We've got people like Sergey Brin, who is the head of Google.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_03: We've got these People from Meta,
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_03: from just massive global organizations that are also tech moguls who are unwilling
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_03: to kind of like pay their fair share while also profiting off of the labor of people
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_03: who live and exist in California.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_03: So I think this is one of the really interesting like class divide conversations
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_03: that we're having right now.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_03: And we're seeing the difference between say like the left versus the right and like
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_03: the 1% versus the working class, right?
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_03: Like we're seeing where there's actually some overlap on all the different sides of
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_03: the spectrum.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_02: I look forward to reading more about your coverage of Prop 40.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_02: It seems like a really, really spicy topic.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_02: Whenever I'm in California,
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_02: there's actually quite a lot of people that just kind
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_02: of voluntarily bring up this particular measure.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_02: So it's definitely one that's combustible in the state currently.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_03: Immigration has been a longstanding issue and one
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_03: that neither party has been particularly strong on.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_03: And obviously what we're experiencing is a very amplified version of like the raids
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_03: and the deportations that were happening under other administrations.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_03: But They were still going on under administrations like the Biden administration and
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_03: the Obama administration.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_03: And so when we're talking about issues like immigration,
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_03: you have to keep in mind that a lot of these folks are the target
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_03: of state-sanctioned violence regardless of who's in office.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_03: And so You have to be able to report and talk about those issues with that in mind
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_03: and objectively think about how at the very human level,
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_03: they've been experiencing and undergoing these sorts of raids and deportations
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_03: and abductions for such a long time that it just takes a toll.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_03: It takes a toll on people's families,
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_03: on people's mental health,
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_03: on their ability to work Provide housing security for themselves,
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_03: you know, even go out and get groceries exist in the world.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_03: It's like all of these barriers continue to go up.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_03: And so as that's happening,
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_03: we're losing income,
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_03: we're losing job and housing stability,
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_03: and we're just losing like a sense of like community that makes this state
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_03: so wonderful and like connected to one another.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_03: So it's just a very like all around impact on so many different levels.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, absolutely.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_02: Well, Michelle, thank you so much.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_02: We look forward to following your coverage.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_02: And you're always a friend of the show.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_02: So always feel welcome to rejoin and give us developments of your coverage as you go along.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_00: Hi, folks.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_00: Producer Matt here.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much to Michelle Zacarias for her insight on the state of California
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_00: and this unbelievable crackdown on migrants that we see going on in one
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_00: of America's most prosperous, most important states.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_00: I just want to remind you that we are officially less than one week away from one of
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_00: the most consequential elections that you will live through in your life.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I would encourage you once again to go to USA.gov and check your voter registration.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_00: If you have already voted by mail or early voted,
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_00: please check with your county registrar to make sure
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_00: that your ballot has been received and will be counted.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_00: In many states,
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_00: they are not allowed to begin counting them until election day,
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_00: but nonetheless,
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_00: you should be able to confirm that your ballot is in the pile and will be counted in
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_00: the end.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_00: I'd also encourage you to come up with a voting plan.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_00: Make sure you know where you're going to vote,
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_00: what polling precincts you're allowed to vote in, what time you're going to vote.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_00: Make sure that you have any job or childcare or other responsibilities.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_00: Covered because it may be quite a while that you could be standing in line.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_00: We've seen how these elections have gone in the past and it is so important
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_00: that your voice be heard.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_00: I just spent the last weekend in Hungary where I was privileged
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_00: to witness Prime Minister Peter I heard Nagyar speak on the occasion of
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_00: the 70th anniversary of the Hungarian Revolution and it was such a strong reminder
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_00: of how many people around the world have given their lives and their freedom
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_00: in order to have the right to vote and self-determination.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_00: We've seen in Brazil and in Serbia similar electoral upsets that put democracy on
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_00: the right footing in both of those countries.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I really hope that you will play your part in doing the same for
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_00: the United States next Tuesday.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_00: That's it for us.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_00: As always, stay safe, look out for your neighbors, and we'll see you next week.
• 28:57
  [music]