Latest / Let's Kick It Off! / Ep 45: Kieran Maguire Returns - Football Finance!

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Ep 45: Kieran Maguire Returns - Football Finance! · Let's Kick It Off!

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Store. When I was when I was MMU, I was
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based in, yeah, various places in Manchester.
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Right. Then Liverpool sort of persuaded
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me to come over to just teach football.
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Yeah, which was quite an attractive proposition.
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Yeah. And then six years ago I managed
0:44
to persuade my wife that if you want to see me, more of me at
0:47
weekends, even though I've got a season ticket at Brighton, why
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don't we move down to Brighton and you'll see me after the
0:53
match. Oh wow.
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OK, so I thought you were still based up in Manchester, but
0:59
you're actually? No, no, I've been at Liverpool
1:01
now for 12 to 13 years and I've been, I've got an apartment in
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Liverpool and I've got, yeah, a house in, in Brighton or near
1:07
Brighton. OK.
1:08
Because you did you, I'm sure on the last part you said you lived
1:11
in Manchester for, was it 40 years?
1:12
40 years. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 1980 to 29,
1:16
Just just the end of 2019, yeah. Right, OK.
1:20
Love Manchester? Yeah, more than Liverpool.
1:24
As a place to live, yes, because it's got more music.
1:28
I'm more interested in music and cricket than having football.
1:31
So. So yeah, Manchester's really
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good for cricket and it's amazing for for music.
1:37
It's just out of interest, is Manchester better than
1:39
Birmingham in your opinion? For music.
1:44
Everything like if you, if you were lived, if you wanted to
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live in a city, which one would you rather live in?
1:50
I think, I think I'd choose Manchester just for the music
1:53
vibe, for the venues. But I, I, I, I really enjoy
1:57
Birmingham. I think it's a great place.
2:00
Did you get to go to Oasis? No, no, I, yeah, If I want to go
2:06
see a Beatles tribute band, I'll go and watch a Beatles.
2:07
Tribute. Hey, so Beatles better than
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Oasis, right? Yeah, By miles.
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Thank you. Thank you.
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And end of discussion. Sorry.
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It's not a discussion. Thank you.
2:20
You need to convince someone here Kieran not naming.
2:23
Names. Well, I'm, I'm a little bit
2:24
younger than these two dinosaurs, so I'm more of an
2:28
Oasis man, but that's just. Oasis are great at what they do
2:31
and if I could have got hold of a ticket I'd love to have seen
2:33
them. But the fact that they played
2:35
the same set every night on the tour shows that everybody I know
2:42
that went to see it said it was fantastic.
2:45
But you do feel it. It sort of lacks a bit of
2:48
spontaneity if if they're at doing that and that was that was
2:51
part of the contractual arrangement between the two, the
2:54
two brothers. And from what I understand, at
2:56
least one of them had a very expensive divorce settlement to
3:00
fund, which might have been a driving factor between between
3:03
the two of. Them any ideas unlike how much
3:06
they've earned through this tour?
3:07
Like this world tour? I've I've got their accounts on
3:11
company's house, but they won't be out for another year.
3:13
That the deal with Adidas, the deal with Paul Smith, the deal
3:20
with City. Land Rover was one another one,
3:23
right? In terms of how to knock it out
3:26
of the park from a from a marketing point of view, you've
3:30
got to give them a huge amount of credit.
3:31
Yeah. I mean, just touching on your
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podcast here and it is a brilliant podcast.
3:34
And I believe you're doing a live show at the Amex, is that
3:37
right next month? That that's right.
3:39
The I'll I'll get my little soapbox here.
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You're you're young men. I'm an old man.
3:47
Suicide is the biggest killer of men under the age of 55.
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It's the biggest killer of women under the age of 35.
3:53
I know people that have killed themselves.
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I know of people that have tried to kill themselves.
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We don't talk about it. You know when it and, and when
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you know, when you meet somebody who has killed themselves, you
4:04
don't you don't know what to say to them.
4:09
And how can we address this? How can we try to turn the dial
4:14
down a little bit? It is through talking.
4:17
So, you know, props to the the Premier League, they have
4:21
partners with Samaritans this year and they are making suicide
4:25
awareness, especially amongst men.
4:28
You know, it's a it's a huge issue because we are messed up
4:32
and we all know we're messed up and there's nobody we can tell
4:34
that we're messed up. So Samaritans is that perhaps
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that one place that could be that final conversation you ever
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have. And if it is, you'll be treated
4:44
with respect and dignity and and so on and care and compassion.
4:48
But that conversation might stop you from doing something.
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And we're, we're delighted that the Brighton have signed up for
4:56
for the suicide awareness campaign and they've given us
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one of the the big sweets at the Amex to do this show.
5:03
So every penny generated goes to go to Samaritans.
5:07
Glenn Murray, who's I, I do the show with Kevin Day, who's a
5:10
Crystal Palace fan. He's a he's a writer, he's a
5:12
comedian got going back a long way.
5:16
So, so Glenn Murray was the guy that scored the, the goals,
5:19
which got Crystal Palace promoted in 2013.
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He then ended up at Brighton and he scored the goals which got
5:24
Brighton promoted in 2017. So he's a he's a hero and a
5:27
legend to, to both sets of fans and, and we're really glad that
5:32
he's come along to give us additional support.
5:33
So, so yes. So thanks for giving me the
5:35
opportunity to to plug it. That's amazing.
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Yeah, I saw it. And yeah, I think we've all been
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touched by friends or friends of friends with suicide.
5:44
And I think, yeah, speaking about it does need to happen.
5:47
So yeah, I think tickets is it for your LinkedIn, for your, for
5:50
your X page. Yeah, if you, if you go to
5:52
Eventbrite Brighton price of Football Live, it's, it's £16.50
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because it cost Brighton Samaritans 165 lbs a day.
6:02
So with that we've sell 10 tickets, We've covered the cost
6:04
for a day. We sell 100 tickets.
6:05
We've we've covered the price for, you know, covering the
6:07
place for 10 days and so on. That's what that's what we've
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tried to do with us. Nice.
6:11
That's amazing. Let's kick it off.
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I'm Steve and I'm joined by Ash and us and we have the return of
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Kieran McGuire to the podcast. So thank you Kieran for coming
6:36
back on. Kieran, you need no
6:37
introduction. You are everywhere talking about
6:40
football finance. I think you made football
6:42
finance cool before it became trendy in the last five years or
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so. Now every time Dick and Harry,
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or in our case Steve, Ash and us think they can talk about
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football finance. So there's only one place to
6:54
start really. Kieran, You're of course a
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Brighton fan and we're Manchester United supporters and
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we did beat you 4/2 on the weekend to rack up three wins in
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a row for us and yeah, get our season back on track.
7:07
But I know you go to your games. Did you go to the game by any
7:09
chance? I I I didn't because I live near
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Brighton. There was only one train after
7:16
the match which was going to Piccadilly.
7:19
The Lionesses were playing at the Etihad.
7:22
This isn't a dig. Yeah, Manchester United have got
7:25
a global and a national fan base, but there's a significant
7:28
number of United fans who are on that the train back.
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So that train was at 8:15 out of pick and there'll be loads of
7:35
Brighton fans as well. And I just thought I didn't
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really fancy standing on the train or missing or not being
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allowed to get on the train. So so I just just sacked it off.
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It's the first match I've missed this season so it was it was
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disappointing but you know, having watched it on telly
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probably made the wise decision. Well, that's a, it's a good
7:57
point actually. I'm sure we'll touch on it
7:59
about, you know, scheduling fixtures and you know how
8:02
inconvenient they are for the match going fans.
8:04
But yeah, in terms of the actual game, what did you make of it?
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Did you think you were going to beat us going into it?
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You've got an amazing record against us right over the last
8:11
few years. But that's right, I mean,
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Brighton have won seven out of the last 8, which is ridiculous
8:16
for a small club, small provincial club such as
8:18
ourselves. Having said that, we've kept one
8:23
clean sheet in 12 months. So you know, we, we would have
8:28
to have scored to have got anything.
8:32
Brighton haven't won away from home this season in the Premier
8:37
League, so there was that as well.
8:39
I, I, I wasn't feeling confident.
8:41
I think I went on another podcast, another Manchester
8:46
United podcast, just after the teams have been announced and
8:50
said I thought United would win by two goals, and that that
8:54
proved to be the case. Yeah, I think it was a
8:56
comfortable win for Manchester United, not helped by the fact
9:00
that of the four Manchester United goals, I think three of
9:03
them were assists from Brighton. As such was the inept ability to
9:08
to keep control. But fair play to United.
9:11
They played the trace, you know, the, the press well, they
9:13
identified what Brighton were going to try to do in terms of
9:17
playing it out from the back and, and, and they got the
9:19
nudges and the tackles in and, you know, no, no complaints.
9:24
And I think I didn't think United were particularly good,
9:27
but then they didn't have to be. And ultimately you can only beat
9:30
what's in front of you and what was in front of them wasn't a
9:33
particularly good side. Just as just as you know the the
9:36
previous week the the winner Anfield it, it was a poor
9:39
little, poor performance, but you still have to score the two
9:41
goals and they scored the two goals.
9:43
Yeah, it's interesting because if you look at the stats of the
9:46
game, I think Brighton had just more possession than United.
9:50
And also if you look at the famous XG stat, I think it was
9:53
pretty even. So what's what's interesting
9:55
with United is when we were losing games at the start of the
9:57
season, the Reuben inquiry were banging on about the underlying
10:00
data saying, oh, if you look at XG, we should be way, way higher
10:03
up the table. The last two games against
10:05
Brighton and Liverpool, the XG is much lower.
10:08
And if you look at the games, you know, you could argue we got
10:10
a bit lucky. So as what would you say in
10:12
terms of the performance of United?
10:13
Do you think we played well? Yeah, good finishing, right?
10:16
You can talk about XG, but if you look at the Cunha goal,
10:21
really, really nice finish and boom, a really nice finish.
10:25
So what happens when you spend 60 odd million on a couple of
10:27
decent forwards who can hit the ball in the back of the net
10:30
pretty well and it's good to see them.
10:33
So finally, you know, sort of clicking a bit, it's taking a
10:36
bit of time to settle in and obviously with Brighton, you
10:40
know, obviously having to sell their best players often, right.
10:44
So the recycling of of talent and their their main man Danny
10:49
Welbeck is one of our rejects. So that that's that's the
10:53
difference right between the two team.
10:54
We have got Cesco up front as well, who played pretty well.
10:58
So, yeah, you know, it's good to see the, the, the money spent by
11:04
Sir Jim, you know, paying some dividends finally.
11:07
We'll come on to that because ours is a staunch in ER
11:10
supporter. So I'm not a payroll.
11:12
Kieran, I would. I would I would characterise
11:17
myself more as anyone but the Glazers and I'm happy that
11:20
someone else is in charge of the club, thank God.
11:23
Even if his name's Jim Blazer. Discussed that.
11:27
Well, hold it, hold, hold fire guys.
11:29
We'll get into that. I just want to hear from Ash in
11:30
terms of the game. And also what did you make of
11:32
our old potential new friend for Labour who we were looking at in
11:35
the summer? I think he got a bit overrun,
11:37
didn't he? Yeah, I'm not sure if Brighton
11:40
could ask for 100 + 1,000,000 next summer, so we'll have to
11:44
see. But yeah, he's he's been off the
11:46
boil ever since the rumours started.
11:48
Their managers talked about it a bit, but yeah, it was a decent
11:52
performance. I mean, I have to say Brighton
11:55
started the game really well, kept the wall really well, good,
11:59
some good passing moves. And I was thinking like in
12:02
preparation, like when Kieran's on, it's like you got to be
12:06
happy with the football. Like in terms of the style, like
12:09
to think where you were like years ago when I was a kid, the
12:14
Goldstone and everything like that to where you are today.
12:16
It's it's phenomenal. But yeah, in terms of Manchester
12:19
United, yeah, great to get their third win in a row.
12:24
It's taken I think 18 months to do so.
12:28
Ironically, Eric Tenhag sacking is one year tomorrow.
12:33
So yeah, anniversary is all over the place.
12:36
And I did hear actually before the game, had Brighton won, it
12:40
would have been the first team to have won four games at Old
12:43
Trafford in 50 years. Yeah, just shows you like how
12:47
how dominant Brighton have been in this fixture over the last
12:51
few years. Yeah, good, good performance in
12:53
terms of the finishing. And I think to your point,
12:57
Steve, in terms of the XG, one of the things that I've noticed
13:00
obviously is we've gone longer and we're winning the second
13:04
balls. Do you know what it's working
13:07
for Reuben? So he's got to take it.
13:09
So instead of playing out from the back and I guess like having
13:13
the pressure put on us, which would have sued to Brighton,
13:16
like you take it and roll on and hopefully three more points
13:20
against Sean Deutsch's lot now, right?
13:24
Nothing for us next week. It is, yeah.
13:27
I'm just interested, before we took off the pitch stuff,
13:30
Kieran, just keeping it on the pitch for a moment more.
13:32
If we'd have done this podcast two or three weeks earlier, it
13:35
would have been a very different tone with the way we're speaking
13:38
about United and the manager, right?
13:40
So just as a neutral football fan, what do you make of Reuben
13:43
at United? I don't think he's been as
13:47
terrible as people have made him out to be when he was getting
13:50
all the pelters and I don't think he's the next second
13:53
coming of Sir Alex Ferguson because you've won three matches
13:56
in a row are. You saying it's not one extreme
13:58
or the other, Kieran? I know this is, this is the
14:02
problem of being a boring academic.
14:04
You, you tend to sort of look at long term data and just just
14:07
referring back to Manchester United start to the season,
14:13
whereas I think one of you already said, well, perhaps they
14:15
were a wee bit fortunate with, with certainly the result
14:18
against Liverpool. I, I don't think it was, I
14:21
thought that Manchester United deservedly won on on on Sunday,
14:27
despite what XG said. I mean, I appreciate the, the
14:31
shots were from outside the box, you know, two or three of them,
14:36
but they, they were, they were very well taken and Brighton
14:40
gave them the chances. And if you do that, you don't
14:44
don't deserve anything. Earlier in this season, they,
14:48
they weren't playing badly, but they, they weren't getting
14:51
results. The trouble is you have to
14:55
accept as Manchester United fans or Manchester United staff that
14:59
you are being viewed through a telescope in, in terms of the
15:05
amount of attention, because it works for sky, it works for the
15:09
printed media, it works for talksport and it goes with the
15:14
territory. I do a podcast on football
15:18
finance where I cover every club from the likes of Manchester
15:22
United and Real Madrid at one end of the scale clubs in, you
15:27
know, I've just been talking about Hamilton Academic course
15:29
today and then a points deduction and I know that if I
15:35
put Hamilton Academicals on the show notes before I put it out,
15:39
that's going to gain no attraction.
15:42
Bruno Fernandez just says that his his favourite pizza has gone
15:46
from Hawaiian to pepperoni. I've got 20,000 views.
15:51
I don't think he likes Hawaiian. Bruno's got their taste in that.
15:55
Kieran, just a quick question before we jump into the
15:58
boardroom. If Manchester United were
16:01
successful, is that better for you in terms of like the
16:04
interview requests or is it, is it better the way it is?
16:08
I, I, I think it in terms of the, the audience for the show
16:13
that I do, we've now established ourselves as being very
16:17
independent and sort of a bit chippy about it as well.
16:21
So today I did a 50 minute show. Well, half of the show was about
16:24
Sheffield Wednesday. Then it was Hamilton Academicals
16:28
and would if, if there was a big story about Manchester United,
16:35
such as, such as a rose during the takeover, would we get more
16:38
listeners? Yes, we would.
16:39
But we'd lose them after one episode because it's not a, a
16:43
club focus show. It it's, it's a topic related
16:48
show. I I suspect on one episode which
16:54
has not yet gone out because the issue's not come out, I'm
16:58
expecting at least 115 additional listeners. 15, OK,
17:03
interesting. Is that a little, is that a
17:05
little clue there, right, Kieran, we'll get into the
17:09
finances then for Manchester United, if that's OK.
17:12
So I think about a month ago, United released their Q3
17:16
results, right, And a lot of the headlines were around record
17:21
revenues. So from your perspective, I'm
17:23
sure you studied those, you studied those accounts.
17:26
Well, what is under the bonnet that we're not seeing in terms
17:29
of headlines outside what is being reported in the media,
17:32
would you say? Yes, it was.
17:37
It was a strange announcement because all of the focus was,
17:42
was on the revenues of Manchester United and, and, and
17:46
ironically and, and, and I would sort of pick up on this type of
17:49
nonsense. The, the club called the Red
17:52
Devils had revenue of 666,000,000 lbs, which was the
17:57
number of the beast. So, so I got slightly giddy
18:00
about that as a nerd, but but we have this rather glib saying in
18:06
the world of finance, even you is vanity.
18:09
Profit is sanity because you can bring in all of the money that
18:12
you can, but if you can't control your costs, you're just
18:16
wasting your time. So I, I think as far as
18:20
Manchester United were concerned, the the revenue bit
18:24
was, was OK, but it was, it was up less than 1% than the
18:29
previous year. Was the point around though,
18:31
like, you know, not being in Europe and still having record,
18:35
is that that's what the club were trying to sell it felt?
18:37
Like that that was. And is that a good or a bad
18:41
thing? Manchester United's ticket
18:45
revenue has gone up by £50 million over the course of the
18:49
last three years. And the club are saying that's
18:51
really good and I'm going well, if I was a Manchester United
18:54
fan, that means I'm paying a lot more money for my ticket.
18:57
So, you know, I'm funding this directly and, you know, as, as
19:02
Manchester United fans and, and as people who attend the matches
19:05
on a more regular basis than myself.
19:06
And I'm, I'm protected as an away fan because I pay £30 a
19:09
ticket. So, you know, I'm, I'm not
19:11
seeing that that particular impact under the new owners,
19:19
they have been able to, to sell the story of we're going to
19:24
squeeze you folks an awful lot for more money for tickets in a
19:31
way that I think the Glazers would have struggled to do so
19:33
because there was goodwill following the takeover.
19:38
And this is where, you know, I think I might be falling out
19:40
because I think that Ratcliffe is a Glazer enabler because he,
19:45
it means all of the heat has been taken away from them.
19:48
And because he is portraying himself as, you know, I was a
19:52
Manchester lad for, you know, for going back to my youth.
19:54
I go, well, hold on, mate. You're a Chelsea season ticket
19:57
holder and you tried to buy Chelsea in 2021.
19:59
You know, don't, don't give me that nonsense.
20:01
You know, don't, don't try, don't try to, I think he's
20:04
trying to mug people off. So, so I, I've, I'm don't like
20:08
any offs for, for a variety of reasons, which I suspect will
20:11
come to over the course of the of the chat together.
20:14
So yeah, it it's very good. From a financial point of view
20:19
that they're extracting a lot more money from fans for each
20:23
ticket and we saw last season you have £66 for the kids
20:27
tickets. We've seen this season season
20:31
ticket holders being squeezed out of, of where they sit
20:34
because the club wants to sell that particular seat as an
20:38
experience. Because you can now see, you
20:41
know, Ruben Amaram playing Angry Birds on his iPad through
20:45
through the dugout. And, and it's worth it trying to
20:47
work out, you know, OK, if, if you are losing at home, when do
20:51
I bring Harry on? You know, that that discussion
20:53
he has, when am I going to send him upfront?
20:55
All, all of the key stuff which, which people will be prepared to
20:58
pay a premium for and and so on. So the, the club is, is good at
21:06
extracting more money from fans. If it continues to increase
21:10
prices, it will continue to set up because it's Manchester
21:13
United. It's, it's, it's the benefit of
21:15
being a global brand. It's the benefit of being such
21:19
an important part of people's lives.
21:21
As far as fans are concerned, they'll they'll moan about it,
21:24
they'll grumble about it, they'll they'll go on to social
21:27
media and complain, and then they'll buy a ticket for the
21:30
next match. Yeah.
21:31
Can I actually just give some context around those prices
21:34
because I've actually been looking at the prices over the
21:36
last couple of days because of we had some friends looking for
21:38
tickets to the Brighton game on the weekend.
21:41
And I actually just went on the website to have a look what's
21:43
available and the tickets now versus 12 to 18 months ago.
21:47
So behind the goal previously, you're not paying more than £40.
21:51
Those tickets are now £65 for members and then on the long
21:56
side of the pitch, previously you weren't paying more than
21:59
£60, you're now paying £80. So it's quite a big percentage
22:02
increase. And not only that, Ash, our
22:05
cousin is up in Manchester on Wednesday, Thursday and they
22:08
were asking me what to do in Manchester.
22:10
So I said, oh, you can go and visit the Science Museum, you
22:14
can visit Manchester Museum, but obviously you should visit Old
22:16
Trafford, right. And he's like, oh, is it free
22:18
entry? I was like, oh, no, let me check
22:20
it out because we're season ticket holders here in US three.
22:22
So we get, you know, slightly discounted entry fees.
22:24
And I was looking at the stadium tour price, £40 for the stadium
22:28
tour. Yeah, yeah, that's, that's as
22:31
much as a ticket would have been to a match, you know, 18 months
22:34
ago. So just to add some context in,
22:36
in terms of those prices. So as I'm going to let you chime
22:40
in here regarding any US, so you know Kieran's mentioned there
22:43
about any off squeezing the fans.
22:45
What would you say to that? Would you agree with that?
22:47
Yeah, I don't disagree, but I think that's a general problem
22:51
in football. So I think if you look at ticket
22:53
prices overall, United's fairly average, like we're one of the
22:57
biggest names, one of the biggest draws.
23:00
Kieran, you mentioned talking about in a Hamilton Academicals,
23:03
you probably need to pay £25 to see one of those games, right?
23:07
So it like it's relative and I wish to chat with you, Steve,
23:12
you're in Manchester. I'm like, oh, it's looking up
23:13
tickets for this Drake concert. They're like 200 lbs and that's
23:17
sold out. And then we're talking about
23:18
Oasis, that's £250 that's sold out.
23:21
So clearly people do have money, have some disposable income and
23:24
want to enjoy their lives. I do think there should be some
23:27
regulation around it generally, but you know, like the one of
23:33
the reasons our revenue was high from ticket price.
23:35
We had a lot of home games and cup home games, Europa League,
23:39
you know, EFL Cup that's going to drop off.
23:42
So I go are you're going to see that drop off a lot.
23:45
The season ticket prices I think will potentially be going up.
23:50
But they they were kept flat for 10 years, right.
23:53
So there is some rooms by the Glazes yet they had a big rise
23:57
at the beginning and then they kept them flat for a while.
24:00
So there is some room. But yeah, I I generally feel
24:04
Kieran, you mentioned the away ticket 30 lbs.
24:08
I think if if you had a Premier League wide thing where you said
24:12
50% of the stadium, you know, regular loyal fans had to pay
24:16
£30 home or away, that would be good.
24:19
And then this idea of the corporates, I have no issue with
24:21
that. So my firm for example had
24:23
season tickets with Arsenal. I think we pay like 1400 lbs and
24:27
you get some crappy food or whatever.
24:29
It's a beautiful view, but it's, you know, there's businesses out
24:34
there are willing to spend for the prep, premium seating and I
24:37
think why, you know, it's an experience you can get make
24:40
money through that. I think you know, other clubs
24:41
do, Real Madrid with the new stadium, Barcelona, etcetera.
24:44
So we do need to make that revenue as long as they protect
24:47
the core fans, which Jim has said he would in interviews.
24:52
Has he if he's kicked out fans from seats who've been there?
24:55
But they're, they're in 60 years, but they're still in Old
24:57
Trafford. We need to, you know, The thing
24:59
is. But they've been kicked out of
25:00
their seats. Yeah, but they're in seats they
25:02
shouldn't be in. Well, those should be corporate
25:03
seats. We should be making money.
25:05
We need to make money from businesses as well for the
25:08
sustainability of the club. Here's the.
25:10
Thing like he's on the payroll. No, here's here's my issue is
25:13
that there's a a disagreement, right, Kieran?
25:16
You know, different people have different philosophy.
25:18
Some of our fanbase want Middle Eastern owners.
25:20
I have I have ethic issues with Middle Eastern money while for
25:24
me a chemicals company, you know, that makes plastic is not
25:28
a big deal. I'd rather ask club is
25:30
sustainable that that we are as supporters can make that
25:34
sustainable if we like Man United.
25:36
I've got this top on and I want to go to the game.
25:38
I put my money and it goes into the club.
25:40
I don't want to take money from from Middle Eastern states with
25:43
their own ethical problems to to win football matches.
25:46
So I think it's just, you know, there's, there's no right answer
25:50
is what I'm saying. And you know, you can, you can
25:52
say, you know, for me, the Glazers, they haven't put a
25:55
single penny into Manchester United ever.
25:58
They came in, they put 200 odd to buy the shares.
26:01
The rest of the club they bought through debt.
26:03
They've been taking out dividends year on year.
26:06
They never invested in the training ground in the stadium
26:08
in all their time. They paid themselves huge fees.
26:12
They even paid like the likes of Fergie. 5 million to watch
26:14
football matches, right? So our money is billing.
26:18
For Manchester United, that Fergie bloke.
26:20
No, he got no. But The thing is, he was paid
26:22
when he was a manager. What's he doing now?
26:23
He just watches games. Why should he get 5 million of
26:26
our money? It makes no sense to me as an
26:28
ambassador. It's like a pension basically
26:30
just to sit around and it's or everyone defends him because
26:34
he's a God, right? But it's the same, you know,
26:36
this country reveres these old, old guys.
26:38
But at the end of the day, he was well remunerated his time as
26:41
manager and we don't need we as working class people don't need
26:44
to be keep funding his pension, right.
26:46
So he he's rich enough as it is like him getting rid of that is
26:49
good. Obviously Jim's gone through
26:52
massive cuts, but you've mentioned yourself, revenue is
26:55
just the, the, the shiny thing, the top number we were, we were
26:59
haemorrhaging money. So he's, he's, he's, he's gone
27:02
too far with the cut. But I've also hired a lot of
27:05
good people that have come in new people and fresh ideas.
27:08
Some as well. Dan Ashworth.
27:10
Made made some clear mistakes, but I think the mistakes, you
27:13
know, the big contracts that the Glaze has signed up to is going
27:17
to take time to roll off. They're they're slowly working
27:20
through it. We'll see.
27:22
I just there's no perfect ownership in my opinion.
27:25
I'd like I'd like fan ownership. I'd like the club to, you know,
27:28
for us as supporters. But then even then us
27:31
supporters, you just listen to a wee one.
27:33
We're all crazy as well. We make stupid decisions.
27:35
Steve wanted to spend 100 million on gawkers in the summer
27:38
and you can't hit a barn door at the moment for us and.
27:41
Harry Kane two years ago as well.
27:43
We'll let we'll let that one slide.
27:45
Ash, I want to come to you because on the last podcasts
27:48
where Kieran joined us, Kieran talked about I think 3 pillars
27:52
that you kind of measure up a club's ability to succeed.
27:57
One of them is around senior management decision making, one
28:01
of them is around opportunity, and the third one is resources,
28:05
capital resources, right? So I think we were quite big on
28:08
the last episode, which I think was in January and around that
28:11
time it was not long after Dan Ashworth have left.
28:14
So you know, six months down the line, US has touched on it
28:18
there. I think he's trying to to
28:20
promote the fact that their summer windows being good and
28:22
the decision making is improving.
28:24
Ash, are you buying it? Well, we would have gone bust
28:28
right in about two months time without all these cuts.
28:31
So no, you know, for the record, Kieran, like when it was Qatar
28:38
versus Inios, I did go Inios because to some of Oz's points,
28:42
I didn't want, you know, a state, you know, either owning
28:46
the club or like investing. And also just through kind of my
28:51
own experiences of following Formula One, I knew a little bit
28:54
about Jim. I have to say I didn't know as
28:56
much about the chemical side as I do now in terms of the way he
29:00
operated, you know, with the chemical side, the fallouts of
29:04
the unions. But it's all come up in the last
29:07
18 months in his ownership, right?
29:09
You see the culture, it's, I think it's been decimated, even
29:13
more so compared to when the Glazers were there.
29:15
Kieran, I know you, you know, staff who are still there or you
29:20
know, have left because of any us.
29:22
And you know, when I listen to your pods, you know it.
29:26
It seems like more of a negative perspective rather than
29:29
positive. And certainly the decision
29:32
making from a football perspective has been, has been
29:37
very inconsistent and choppy. He gave Eric Turnhag an
29:41
extension then fires him. We had the debacle of the FA Cup
29:46
final and basically trying to get any manager in, but we
29:51
couldn't for whatever reason. And like I said earlier, it's
29:56
the anniversary of 10 Argsak in tomorrow.
29:59
And then obviously from a, you know, a hiring perspective, the
30:03
Dan Ashworth debacle of trying to get him to join for some
30:08
reason. So Jim not understanding
30:10
gardening leave, you know, and and you know, obviously he has
30:16
to play the game a little bit in terms of that side of it and,
30:19
you know, trying to pressurise Newcastle.
30:22
I guess the big thing that everyone is probably focusing on
30:25
long term for Manchester United is is the stadium.
30:29
And already to me that just seems like that's going to
30:32
become a debacle. You know, we obviously came out
30:36
I think in March to say this grand design with the massive
30:40
umbrella and already they've come back and said like,
30:44
actually we can't do that. No shit.
30:46
Sherlock didn't take, you know, an architect to to understand
30:51
that. So yeah, I mean it just very
30:55
inconsistent, not what I expected when I thought any us
30:58
could do a good job. And you know, I worry as well
31:03
about even the Academy side of it because, you know, there's
31:06
clear shifts in terms of instead of looking at players from a
31:11
perspective of putting them in the first team, we are
31:14
definitely moving towards a model of Manchester City.
31:17
I mean, it's not a surprise with I'm a Barada there and Jason
31:20
Wilcox. But you can see a change, I
31:23
know, as we'll probably argue that, well, if we sign, you
31:27
know, 10, you know, players around the world and you know,
31:29
one's an absolute worldy, then it doesn't matter.
31:32
And then the rest you can just sell for 10/15 million.
31:36
But also we need to get those prices because, you know, we've
31:39
been shocking over the whether it's the the Glazer period or in
31:43
the early any odds period of selling players like Ganache was
31:46
undervalue God nice. You know, if we do sell Kobe,
31:50
mainly how much he'll go for. So yeah, not being impressed is
31:55
kind of like the the summary, Steve.
31:58
Yeah. And Kieran, obviously interested
32:00
to hear your take, because when we last did this in January, you
32:03
know, you weren't very complimentary of any US to date.
32:07
I think at that point they'd only been in the building for
32:09
about a year. Now we're getting on to kind of
32:11
18 months, two years, Yeah, as your perspective changed, you
32:15
know, we have won three games in a row, you know.
32:18
So any any change in your opinion there?
32:21
I, I think we're having this conversation on the back of
32:23
three victories in a row, which has significantly changed
32:27
perceptions. And, and football is an industry
32:31
and there's, it's a bit like politics in a way, where a week
32:34
is a long time and two weeks is as, as we've seen with
32:39
Liverpool, we've seen that, you know, Paddy Power were paying
32:44
out on Celtic to be champions of Scotland after two games this
32:48
season and now look at them. So things, things can change
32:53
very quickly. My, my issue with Ineos is not
32:57
on the footballing side of things because I generally don't
33:00
think I'm qualified to comment. But from a, from a management
33:05
point of view, they knew what Dan Ashworth was like.
33:11
So why recruit him when they, they must have realised Dan
33:15
Ashworth was sacked because he stood up for staff.
33:18
He stood up for, for, for members of Manchester United who
33:21
are being treated appallingly by, by Ineos.
33:25
And you don't do that. You know, it's, it's a, it's
33:28
sort of a, it's a bit Trump like if, if you speak up against the
33:31
governor, you're, you're, you're going to lose your job.
33:34
So I absolutely understand why he went.
33:36
But surely they should have done their homework before then On
33:41
the comments that I've had, we've done us some live shows.
33:44
We've had people who have been formerly working at Manchester
33:48
United and yeah, they're potentially going to have a
33:51
grudge. I I get that.
33:53
But one guy came up to us after we'd done a gig in London.
33:56
He was working for Manchester United in the London office.
34:00
He was told he had to relocate to Manchester and they were
34:03
going to give him three weeks. And he said, not unreasonably,
34:08
any chance of giving me a longer period of time because I've got
34:13
a house here, I've got two kids are at school here.
34:16
And I don't think it's reasonable.
34:18
And the reply was, but if you do that, you're deemed to have
34:22
tended your own resignation. And it, and it's that part of
34:25
the culture that that I resent tearing down the staff.
34:33
You, you can get rid of staff through natural wastage, you
34:36
know, because 10% of your staff leave every year anyway.
34:39
If they, if they really thought thought.
34:40
But when I talk to people at the club now, they're saying they've
34:45
brought people in as consultants and they're paying them more
34:49
than the people that they would make they'd released.
34:54
Now, I know last season Jim Ratcliffe had this idea that
34:59
that working from home was woke and therefore you had to be in
35:03
at Old Trafford every day of the week.
35:06
And I'm going, well, OK, I'm, I'm, I'm not, the data doesn't
35:11
bear that out. But OK, if it's a decision
35:14
that's what you want to do, then fine.
35:16
But the problem is it didn't work because of the changes at
35:19
Carrington. The people who are working at
35:21
Carrington had to work at Old Trafford.
35:24
And because Manchester United were having a success, when
35:27
people forget this last season was a success as far as European
35:30
football was, they made the final.
35:32
And if they'd won that final, let's face it, was possibly the
35:35
worst. And I've seen some stinking
35:37
finals. But yeah, and this was I've got,
35:39
I don't have a dog in the fight between Manchester United and
35:42
Spurs. I didn't really care who won it
35:43
from a football, but boy was that a poor game of football.
35:46
And here we were there. Oh good.
35:48
Well, well, funnily enough, that was the was it the Wednesday or
35:54
the Thursday? Wednesday.
35:55
Yes, that was, that was the Wednesday after the FA Cup
35:58
final, Yes. And the previous Saturday
36:03
Crystal Palace had won the FA Cup.
36:06
I've, I've now sort of, you know, built up a network of
36:09
people that I talked to in football were very, very kind to
36:12
me. And they give me the time and I
36:13
know, and I tried to give them something back in, in terms of
36:16
sort of analysis and so on. And I was very kindly phoned up
36:20
by UEFA and UEFA said to me on the Sunday, Kieran, you must be
36:25
gutted. Crystal Palace have won a trophy
36:28
and Brighton had never won a trophy and they're your biggest
36:30
rivals. Yes, it's not, it's not a good
36:32
24 hours and they said we've got 2 tickets for the Europa League
36:37
final for you to try to make it up to you.
36:40
Wow. And I and I and then sort of
36:43
course, I went on to Skyscanner and when I found out the cost of
36:46
accommodation and flights. So yeah, that's very, very kind
36:49
of you, you need to find somebody else because I couldn't
36:52
afford the divorce, let alone the tickets that that would
36:55
provoke the divorce. What are the tickets, the the
36:58
flight, flight costs and hotel costs that have taken it up?
37:01
Yeah. I mean, the only way we got
37:03
round it was by somehow spending a week out there and getting
37:06
reasonable, Yeah, getting reasonable prices, but.
37:09
Highly recommend Northern Spain as a as a venue.
37:11
So the football was terrible, but the the holiday was
37:15
excellent. So if you if you're not, I mean
37:16
the. Tapas and everything that goes
37:18
with it. Yeah, the culture there is
37:19
fantastic. Bilbao and Santander, San
37:22
Sebastian, sorry, was brilliant. Yeah.
37:25
Yeah, was really nice. But yeah, I mean, yeah, just
37:29
touching on that Bill Bow game, you know, that would have
37:32
papered over a lot of cracks. I think it would have won that
37:34
game. In the Champions League,
37:36
guaranteed 100 billion pounds. Yeah, everybody's got a smile on
37:40
the face. Yeah.
37:42
And And it's small margins because Manchester United didn't
37:46
deserve to lose that match, no more than Spurs.
37:49
And Spurs didn't deserve to win it or lose it.
37:51
It was just a God awful game of football.
37:53
It was a classic toss of a coin into.
37:56
I mean, even the goal was one of the worst goals I think I can
37:59
never remember seeing. They're still trying to work
38:01
out, but it was an own goal or somebody stuffed it over the
38:04
line. Yeah.
38:06
Can we just before we kind of move on and talk about some
38:09
certain Middle Eastern rumours that surfaced a few weeks ago,
38:12
can we just talk in terms of like, so following that final,
38:16
the deflation from us guys, even us through here, yeah, us
38:19
managed to source some kebab shop which was 4 out of five on
38:22
Google after the game. So we're sitting in this kebab
38:24
shop, you know, the mood is on the floor and we've had some bad
38:28
ones over the last 10 years. But yeah, just sitting there
38:31
thinking, oh, we've missed out on this revenue.
38:34
You know, we thought the Champions League was going to
38:35
get us back, you know, a lot quicker than we thought.
38:38
And then you're facing the reality of no European football.
38:41
And then you're kind of thinking about the summer in terms of the
38:44
transfer window. Like, you know, how much can we
38:45
spend, you know, when there's a lot of players who want to get
38:47
out, etcetera. And I think in the early part of
38:50
the summer, the kind of budget that was touted for Manchester
38:53
United was around like the 100 million mark in terms of net
38:56
spend. And I think once we'd signed
38:59
Kunya and Imbumo early in the summer and then we suddenly
39:03
signed Chesco out of nowhere, really a lot of people were
39:06
surprised that we were able to afford Chesco more.
39:09
So. So do you think the club have
39:12
made certain bets in terms of where the club need to finish
39:16
say this season in terms of European positions?
39:19
Do you think we're, you know, we've taken a slight risk there?
39:21
What's your making of it? No, I, I think the club's
39:25
probably being conservative, I think they probably budgeted for
39:28
your Europa League place and not anything more than that.
39:33
At the same time, the the sales of of Greenwood and Mctominay
39:39
the previous year because they were both Academy players.
39:42
Pure profit. Yeah, so yes, Manchester United
39:46
spent, you know, well over £200 million in the summer, but those
39:49
players effectively all on five year contracts.
39:51
So from a cost point of view it's 40 million going out.
39:55
The sale of Garnacho brought in 40 million coming in, former
39:59
Academy player, pure profit. So I think they, you know,
40:02
whilst the deal went through late, I think the club was
40:06
always confident shifting Rashford in terms of wages.
40:11
Off getting, you know, shifting Sancho in terms of wages.
40:15
And I know that people say, well, hold on, they did the same
40:17
the previous season. But yeah, they they have done
40:20
the right thing. So, so that, you know, the bomb
40:23
squad was well and truly bombed out of the club And, and I think
40:28
that they they deserve some credit for doing so.
40:31
We don't know what proportion of Sancho's wages they're paying.
40:34
We don't know whether Barcelona are paying all of the wages.
40:38
I think the rumours are that they are.
40:41
I think they cut both players are covered.
40:43
So like those were good semi good deals and also if if
40:47
Rashford does stay then there's some money to come from that
40:49
Hoyland as well was another player right.
40:51
We there's a loan fee, but there's an sort of option stroke
40:56
obligation if Napoli qualify for the Champions League, plus some
41:00
of those add-ons from like the Alanga sale, Alvaro Carreras
41:04
going to the Real Madrid from Portugal.
41:07
So like bits and pieces of money came in probably was around the
41:11
100 million as you mentioned, Kieran as well.
41:13
The amortisation helped. So, you know, hopefully we can
41:17
go and then Casimiro's wages will come off in the summer as
41:20
well. And then Bruno's being linked to
41:22
Saudi potentially. So maybe next?
41:24
Summer out of contract this summer.
41:27
Yeah, yeah. McGuire as well.
41:29
Credit, credit facility that was extended as well like Kieran.
41:34
Yep, I, if I was a bank bouncer, I'd do that for Manchester
41:37
United. They, they, the club generates
41:39
cash. So, so you know, it's, it's I
41:43
know you're Manchester United season ticket holders and fans.
41:47
Jim Ratcliffe describes it as a very successful brand.
41:50
And it is from a business perspective, because you can
41:52
stick a man Manchester United badge on anything and, and get
41:56
those additional revenues as you see.
41:58
So you've got your mug there, you've got your, your, your Gary
42:01
Neville Halloween masks. So this a bit later this week
42:05
and so on. Yeah, no, if just in terms of
42:09
you mentioned there that the club are probably budgeted for
42:11
finishing in in the Europa League.
42:13
If we were to finish, say, you know, no European football, do
42:16
you think that could have a an impact or do you think they can
42:18
still manoeuvre their way out of it?
42:20
No, that they've, that they've, they've got a lot of horrible
42:24
worth it. They've got a lot of inventory
42:26
which is out of contract in, in the summer of of 2026.
42:34
Having seen the having seen Manchester United contracts,
42:38
they, they do cover their, their own backsides in the sense that
42:43
the basics are actually not that high.
42:47
But there's big step UPS only for Champions League
42:50
participation. If you, if you qualify for the
42:52
Europa League, you don't get a penny more.
42:53
So this, this does incentivise the players.
42:56
I still think that with, you know, the chances are that
43:00
there's going to be 5 Champions League places next season,
43:05
Arsenal asserts. I think City, although they've
43:08
been a whip wobbly, but although if Harlem gets injured, you
43:12
know, everything changes. But I think City are are pretty
43:15
close to certs. Liverpool, yes.
43:18
You know as a Manchester United fan, 3 victories for you when
43:22
Liverpool have 4 consecutive defeats.
43:24
It can't get much better in October.
43:27
Yeah, it must be one of your best Octobers of all time.
43:30
You look at that Liverpool squad and it still looks pretty tasty,
43:34
although they should have reinforced the different, we're
43:36
talking footballer defence looks a bit bit creaky.
43:39
But it will, it will do enough. So I think they'll take three of
43:43
the the Champions League places and I think the other two are up
43:46
for grabs. And you don't have the
43:50
distraction of Europe. So, you know, you play a match
43:54
at the weekend and then, then, then the manager gets the
43:57
players in on a Monday or Tuesday and you start working on
44:00
the drills for the following weekend.
44:03
And, and you, you've got the, the data analysts who have
44:05
identified how the next opposition plays.
44:08
So that gets drilled into the players for four days.
44:11
And, and instead of having to go away on, you know, the Monday or
44:14
the Tuesday overseas. So I, I, I do anticipate, I, I
44:17
know when, when Chelsea didn't qualify for Europe in 20, either
44:25
2015 or 2016, the following year they won the Premier League.
44:30
And at the start of the season, I put this out on Twitter and
44:32
Manchester United fans gave me absolute Peltus.
44:35
And I'm just saying, I'm not saying it will happen, but
44:39
recruit well, less chance of injuries because of, of, of the
44:44
less pressure on the players. You can, you can have a season
44:49
probably a bit, a lot better than than many anticipated.
44:52
So yeah, I, I personally think you've got at least a 5050
44:55
chance of, of Champions League football next season.
44:58
So you think, did you think the lack, I mean, we went into that
45:01
Brighton game. I think we're just Lisandro
45:03
Martinez out. So do you think the lack of
45:05
injuries are more like less playing time and not actually.
45:08
So Jim suggesting these stretching exercises we've heard
45:11
of in in Carrington. Yeah, I think that's how it
45:15
clearly had an effect in my opinion.
45:17
Right. Yeah.
45:19
Yeah, Yeah, obviously I don't know.
45:21
There's there's various places in Manchester we can get
45:24
massages, which perhaps Jim, Jim wouldn't, wouldn't appreciate
45:27
either. So moving on swiftly, we'll,
45:31
we'll touch on the yeah, Middle East and investment rumours that
45:35
started a few weeks ago. I know you've spoken about it on
45:38
other platforms, Kieran, but just to give you context as as
45:42
mentioned and Ash there, you know, when we had this Ineos
45:46
versus Qatar slash Sheikh Jaseem thing going on a few years back,
45:50
I was of the opinion that we should just take the money.
45:54
Do I love everything the Middle East do?
45:56
No Do I want Manchester United winning?
45:58
Yes. As an Ash have no problem, you
46:01
know, going around London dining in nice restaurants that have
46:04
been funded with Middle Eastern investment.
46:07
That's the way I look at it. So in terms of these rumours
46:10
that initiated a few weeks back, I think it was Turkey LL shape
46:13
that started them. He's the Saudi sports guy that's
46:17
involved in boxing etcetera, and he intimated that there was new
46:21
investors for Manchester United. He came and said it's not his
46:24
country. The rumour mill then started to
46:27
say it's a consortium in the UAE.
46:30
So Kieran, first of all, tell us what you know.
46:32
I'm sure you've got some inside track.
46:35
And secondly, yeah, do you think it's viable or is it just a
46:38
smokescreen? And some people made an awful
46:43
lot of money from that tweet. Share price, right?
46:46
Share price went up, you know, because, because I was tweeting
46:49
the share price every day and on on the back of that, you know,
46:57
it probably went up by 15%. You know, if you, if you'd gone
47:02
in significantly, you'd have come out with a with a decent
47:06
profit. And I think it's dipped a wee
47:08
bit since then. The issue with there's two
47:12
issues. First of all, Sheikh Jaseem is a
47:14
strange one because this was a person you know.
47:17
We all live in a digital world. Is he a person?
47:21
Well, that was that's the push, because prior to that bid nobody
47:26
had ever said there's only one photograph on the whole of
47:30
Google, of Sheikh Jaseem. It's all it's that one
47:33
photograph that we've seen does seem very, very weird for
47:37
somebody to have that level of privacy.
47:39
So I was always slightly sceptical.
47:44
The only thing which made me raise my eyebrows was that I was
47:49
working down in London during sort of that summer during that
47:54
period. And I got a phone call from a
47:58
fairly reputable source who said that they were on the Sheikh
48:03
Jaseem side of the deal. It's somebody who I would, you
48:07
know, normally trust quite well. And and they were telling me,
48:12
you know, titbits. And the reason why people tell
48:15
me titbits is because I'll then mention them on the podcast.
48:19
I'm a terrible gossip, but I've got a but I've got a slight
48:23
degree of so, you know, I, I, I tried to second check things as
48:26
I'm not a journalist, but I tried to second check things.
48:28
So I thought that perhaps that did gave a little bit of
48:31
credibility to shake Jaseem. But since that bid, nobody's
48:35
seen or heard of him. You know, he's, he's again come
48:38
completely under the radar. So it can it, it does call into
48:42
question the, the sort of the legist legitimacy of the
48:45
existence of, of Sheikh Jaseem. When it came to the rumours
48:51
about the UAE, part of me was thinking, I'm not sure that
48:57
Sheikh Mansour would be particularly pleased at somebody
49:03
from, you know, his neck of the woods buying Manchester United
49:07
when there's already UAE investment in Manchester City.
49:10
That for me did not add up. And then from what happens in
49:20
terms of, you know, it's, it's not multi club ownership, but
49:25
the Premier League's definition of connected parties is much
49:29
broader than it used to be. What is going to be the reaction
49:33
of UEFA to all of this? So it it's a strange one.
49:39
And then we'll talk about. You know.
49:43
The the drag along rights that the Glazers could force
49:46
Ratcliffe to sell at $32. He'd be delighted if he gets
49:52
given given where we are knocking around.
49:54
So, so it was just all very odd. And there's nothing coming out
50:02
of Wall Street, I can assure you, apart from yeah, everybody
50:07
refers back to the tweet and and why would Turk Al Sheikh put out
50:11
the tweet in the 1st place? Yeah, that, that and he's, he's
50:14
sort of semi backtracked since then as well.
50:20
I, I, I don't know, it just seems a very strange 1.
50:25
And I, I can absolutely understand from, you know, some
50:30
people have got ethical objections to Middle East and
50:32
investment. You know, Manchester United have
50:36
currently got American investment and, you know, the
50:39
behaviour of the American state, which is sort of, you know,
50:43
randomly shooting people in boats.
50:46
Yeah, in in South America people go, no, that's fine.
50:51
I think we should just clarify on them because you're making
50:54
the point on, you know, rest invest.
50:56
There's a difference between investment.
50:58
Firstly, there's a difference between state ownership and
51:00
individual. So the American state doesn't
51:02
own Manchester United. I don't like the glazes either
51:05
as individuals or them. You're right, there's difference
51:08
between that and the state. Secondly, there's difference
51:10
between investment. So if they want to give us the
51:11
money and say I like here's a here's here's a bunch of money
51:14
sticker name or, you know, I want to buy some boxes or
51:17
whatever it is, right? I want to build your stadium.
51:19
I don't care about that. My issue with when state, what
51:22
I'm talking about is using Manchester United as a vehicle
51:25
to maintain your position in illegitimate power in your
51:28
country, right? Because that's what the states
51:31
are doing by having a hold in certain institutions or
51:34
controlling sports, they are looking to maintain their the
51:38
hegemony, right? That's a diff.
51:39
That's not investment. It's it's, it's, it's something
51:42
more sinister in my opinion. That's why I have a problem with
51:45
it. Just to be clear, it's different
51:47
from a restaurant. That's all, all Harrods.
51:49
It's owned by the Qataris or whatever, right?
51:53
If that makes sense to you. I absolutely get where you're
51:56
coming from as what I would say is that I'm aware of many other
52:03
countries in the world which have got fairly repulsive
52:07
ownership. And what they do is that they do
52:11
nothing because. And we don't talk about them
52:14
because they, they, they don't. If I if I was running a a self
52:20
perpetuating dynasty and I was abusing my citizens, the one
52:25
thing I wouldn't do is buy a football club because nobody
52:28
gives a damn about my country. I'm currently pillaging it for
52:32
its natural resources. I've got a secret police force
52:36
which keeps me in power. And if nobody knows about my
52:42
country because there's there's wars taking place in the world
52:45
that we don't talk about. There's brutal regimes we don't
52:47
talk about. Why?
52:48
Because they're not connected to football.
52:50
And therefore I'm not being rude.
52:51
We don't really care that much. And it's not doesn't reflect
52:54
necessarily well or badly on us. It's the way of the world.
52:59
So, so, so why? Why create?
53:01
I mentioned to you earlier, Manchester United is viewed
53:04
through a telescope. Why bring that attention on
53:07
yourself? Yeah, because because it brings
53:11
them. It brings.
53:12
No, but those links bring them a certain sense of legitimacy of,
53:16
you know, a seat at the table with certain powers, you see
53:19
with Trump and Infantino. And it's it's part of this.
53:22
It's web. And I just would like going back
53:25
to that point of ideally, you know, a football club is a club,
53:29
a local institution of Manchester of the UK of the
53:32
supporters. And I just for me, it's somewhat
53:36
taint that where. And, you know, Jim Ratcliffe's
53:41
money is plastics. You know, it's petrochemicals.
53:44
Yeah. But at the end of the day, he's
53:46
not even putting that much money in himself.
53:48
He's kind of just, you know, but like I said, he's sort of
53:51
sitting on top of it And and we are, as you mentioned, the
53:54
ticket prices, we're going to eventually fund it.
53:56
So at least it feels like somewhat sustainable.
54:01
This kind of pumping in of of you know, I don't, I don't
54:06
personally like it myself. You, you mentioned we're a great
54:09
brand. We are in financial
54:11
difficulties. I think we can dig ourselves out
54:13
of it ourselves without, you know, a bit of patience.
54:16
See these contracts running off, build that new stadium.
54:19
I'll pay a little bit more. Instead of going to these Drake
54:21
concerts and Oasis, let's go and watch a winning Manchester
54:24
United team. You do realise they're one off
54:26
events right? So when you keep talking about
54:29
Drake and Oasis, it's not 19 home league games and the cup
54:33
run. So yeah.
54:35
But I think to that to the people who do pay for trade
54:38
tickets like, yeah, I think it's an anomaly versus.
54:42
Probably got Londoners buying buying them in Manchester and
54:45
travelling. Exactly.
54:46
That too. And also you're going to win in
54:49
the sense that he's going to play the songs that you want to
54:51
hear. It's when you draw at home
54:54
against Bournemouth over a 12/30 kick off on a Saturday, you're
54:57
going. Come on, Kieran.
54:59
You, you, you. You spend a lot of money going
55:01
watching Brighton. You know that.
55:02
It's part of the the joy, right? You win, lose or draw.
55:05
It's part of the Yeah, you, you sacrifice it a little bit.
55:08
But you're you're young, you're dynamic.
55:10
I'm I'm a 63 year old spreadsheet obsessed teetotal
55:15
accountant. I've got no friends or life.
55:18
What else I'm gonna do on a Saturday?
55:20
Exactly. That's it.
55:21
It brings some joy. People want to spend that money.
55:23
I think people also just, you know, essentialize London as
55:26
this rich place. Yes, there's these, there's
55:28
there's, there's rich oligarchs and there's lawyers who like
55:31
going to the opera. There's also a lot of working
55:33
class where you go to Spurs or Arsenal average, if you go go on
55:36
the tube at 7:00 AM, you'll see so many working class people
55:39
working really hard in London who also want to go and watch
55:42
football. You know, Manchester is not some
55:45
poverty stricken place either. Like, you know, they they, you
55:47
know. Steve lives in a bigger house
55:49
than I do and I'm in A2 bed flat.
55:51
Clearly has some disposable income.
55:53
We won't reveal the post code of it as.
55:57
This idea that everyone in London is like swimming in
56:00
money. We're not, we're struggling.
56:01
We have high rent, we have high cost of living, we have high
56:03
transportation costs. And we're there's a lot of
56:05
working class people here in the inner city as well.
56:08
So, you know, I think generally the whole football community
56:12
should get together to lower ticket price and not say, oh,
56:14
London is they can pay lots of money.
56:15
All of us should be paying a bit less.
56:17
And you mentioned the transportation care and you
56:20
know, the government should be investing more in trample
56:23
infrastructure and subsidising that as well so that people, you
56:27
know, average people can get around.
56:28
So I think it's a, it's a way the problem and not just, you
56:31
know, so Jim. Yeah, I agree with you entirely,
56:35
you know, and I'm voting for you in the next election as.
56:44
I'll be, I'll be voting for, I'll be voting for the Green
56:46
Party. And I know they do well in
56:47
Brighton, but you know. Yeah, here we Caroline Lucas.
56:51
She follows me on Twitter, as does Ryan Reynolds.
56:54
I have to, I have to like I'm contractually obliged on every
56:57
podcast when when I'm appearing with younger people to mention
57:01
that I'm down with. Yeah.
57:04
And I actually just wanted to ask you a question on Sir Jim in
57:08
terms of his famous speech from March.
57:11
We're going to become the most profitable club in the world, I
57:15
believe in three years time. How do you see that with what
57:19
he's done and you know the future?
57:24
If that's his objective, that that can be achieved, you know,
57:28
get rid of some more dinner ladies, increase the prices for
57:30
kids, boot out the people sitting near the the dugouts and
57:37
so on. And, and, and make it more of a
57:40
a dignified experience. And I think that's where the new
57:42
stadium can make a huge difference because one of the
57:46
things we've seen at Spurs is that people now arrive at the
57:52
ground earlier and they leave later.
57:54
Yeah. And by average of 50 minutes.
57:56
And have you been to Spurs as away fans?
57:59
Well, you know, it's, it's, it's, it is magnificent.
58:03
But also it, it's, it's got that link with with Disneyland in the
58:08
sense that when I went to Disneyland with my kids, from
58:11
the moment I arrived to the moment I left, there was
58:15
somebody persuading me to spend money, which is the same when
58:18
you go to Spurs and that extra 50 minutes that people are
58:22
spending there, they're not watching the grass grow, they're
58:25
not admiring the floodlights. They're spending money.
58:27
So Old Trafford is not fit for that.
58:31
You know, I've, I've been going to, I went to the university in
58:34
Manchester 1980. It's not changed significantly
58:38
since then in, in the sense that the toilets are appalling.
58:42
The catering is, is woeful. You're, you're squeezed in those
58:47
areas. There's not a concourse as such.
58:50
There's there's a set of set of stairs and there's somebody
58:53
selling pies at the bottom of them and it's right next to the
58:56
toilet. With some bricks, yeah, yeah.
58:58
Yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's not somewhere where you want to
59:02
stay. And I, I, I played for, for, for
59:05
Trafford Metro VIX Cricket Club. So, you know, that's pretty
59:09
close to, to the stadium itself. So therefore I shared a, a
59:13
dressing room, a cricket dressing room.
59:14
And and yeah, it was half red, half blue, you know, proper,
59:18
proper Manchester working class cricket team.
59:21
The lads who I knew who were Manchester United fans, they
59:24
said we're not going to drink in the ground before the match
59:27
because it's absolutely appalling.
59:28
So we go to the same old boozer. We'll arrive at 2:50 the minute
59:32
the final whistle finishes or potentially early.
59:35
If it was a, if it was a foregone conclusion they're out.
59:38
So it was the only money the club was making was was through
59:41
ticket sales. I think they've a new stadium
59:44
will give them the opportunity to increase the yield by by
59:48
offering alternatives to that. And on that, in terms of the new
59:51
stadium, there's obviously a lot of talk and, you know, they
59:54
revealed their grand plans back in March.
59:57
Yeah. How viable do you think it is?
59:59
Because obviously it requires a lot of government investment in
1:00:02
terms of the surrounding area, you know, do you think this can
1:00:05
happen? I know they need to buy land
1:00:07
near the stadium etcetera and those talks are dragging on.
1:00:12
Yeah, there's a few gaps in the master plan.
1:00:16
So certainly the silly tent has gone that saved 300 million.
1:00:21
I don't think it will be 100,000 seater stadium because if the
1:00:28
most expensive seats to build are going to be the ones right
1:00:31
at the top, but they could be so far away from the pitch, you're
1:00:34
not going to charge high prices for them.
1:00:36
So why spend the most amount of money to get the least amount of
1:00:40
money coming in from ticket sales?
1:00:41
So I, I think you know, at some point in time we will see an
1:00:45
announcement that, you know, in, in order to reach the target
1:00:49
date, they decided to reduce the capacity to 85,000, but they're
1:00:52
going to be 85,000 brilliant seats and they probably will be
1:00:56
as well. But you know, As for those
1:00:58
Manchester United fans who are on the waiting list for a season
1:01:01
ticket saying we're still an extra 12,000 seats, We've got a
1:01:04
chance of getting one. And I've always wanted the
1:01:05
season ticket. Old Trafford, just just forget
1:01:08
it, guys, because those extra 12,000 seats, they're going to
1:01:11
tourists and they're going to corporates because they're the
1:01:14
people with the biggest wallets. If you're in Harper High or
1:01:17
Gorton, you've got no chance. Yeah, fair enough.
1:01:21
So just very last point of Manchester United.
1:01:23
So let's just say there was a UAE consortium that came forward
1:01:26
with six billion, 7 billion. Do you think there's appetite
1:01:29
from the glazes more so the glazes because they've they've
1:01:33
got the majority right and they've got the drag long right.
1:01:35
Do you think there's appetite for them to sell at this moment
1:01:38
or even in the next year or so? I think Avram and Joel are
1:01:42
convinced that Manchester United could be the first £10 billion
1:01:45
football club. They've they've seen the prices
1:01:48
that are that are being charged for NFL franchises and and those
1:01:52
prices are going through the roof.
1:01:54
They believe that the further adoption of American style
1:01:59
marketing and broadcasting techniques in an ideal world,
1:02:04
they want to get rid of two halves and they want to replace
1:02:06
it with four quarters, for example, because that's that's
1:02:11
that's three, that's three half times to sell food.
1:02:14
That's three to half times to increase the number of adverts
1:02:17
on Sky. So Sky will be willing to pay
1:02:19
more. And remember that was part of
1:02:22
Super League's proposals. Anybody that's read Super League
1:02:25
in detail, it's a frighteningly dystopian, scary change of, of
1:02:33
the game that that we love the game that we've brought been
1:02:36
brought up on. But you know, tomorrow morning
1:02:38
I'm, I'm doing an interview with the BBC on Baller League.
1:02:43
That's ridiculously popular and and you wouldn't catch me near
1:02:48
in a in a week of Sundays. But it's it's not targeted at my
1:02:53
generation, not being rude, not necessarily targeted at your
1:02:56
generation. You know, it's, it's for people
1:02:59
who, who think influencers have have real personalities and have
1:03:04
something valid to say. Yeah, fair play.
1:03:08
So unlikely because I'm praying for the Glazers and any us to
1:03:11
leave, but I think after these three wins I'm going to be
1:03:14
waiting even more years it seems.
1:03:16
Kieran, we, we had to ask this. So we've been arguing about it
1:03:20
for about a year and a bit. Proof of funds, Sheikh Jaseem,
1:03:24
could you just give us like your opinion and what you know about
1:03:28
that? What happened with that
1:03:30
scenario? Well, according to, I think the
1:03:33
Rain Group, he never came up with a credible offer.
1:03:37
Rain Group, again, quite a conservative organisation that
1:03:39
they wouldn't say that unless they had evidence to back it.
1:03:43
Up couple of quick ones before you go.
1:03:44
So La Liga, in terms of the international fixture that got
1:03:48
cancelled, I think between Barcelona and Villarreal was
1:03:51
meant to be out in Miami. I think it's kind of a warning
1:03:54
sign to the Premier League because, you know, there's been
1:03:56
talk of this potentially happening in the Premier League.
1:04:00
Do you see proposals like that coming forward in our country?
1:04:06
I, I think they have to wait for somebody else to make that move.
1:04:10
So, so there has been a backlash in Spain, There's been a
1:04:12
backlash from Real Madrid most of all, which is, but then you
1:04:16
know, why, why have people not going to the burnabout?
1:04:20
Because it, it, it's, it's a money making machine, whereas
1:04:24
Villarreal are a different kettle of fish.
1:04:26
I, I, I think we're fairly safe for at least six or seven years.
1:04:31
If it does go overseas in the Liga, I, I can't see the
1:04:34
Bundesliga clubs going for it because their fans won't allow
1:04:36
it. So we, we saw how our fans stood
1:04:40
together as one, regardless of whether you were knighted City
1:04:43
or Chelsea or Liverpool or or whoever went with Super League
1:04:47
came along. I I think there will be a
1:04:48
backlash and and it will be very, very difficult to sell.
1:04:52
Yeah, fair enough. I think me personally, I
1:04:54
wouldn't like to see it. I think the part of the product
1:04:57
is the fans in the stadium, etcetera.
1:04:59
So probably the last one, salary caps.
1:05:03
I think there's a Premier League meeting next month, is it?
1:05:07
Yeah. So you see them coming into
1:05:09
play. And just very briefly, what's
1:05:10
the benefit of bringing them in? Well, it's a weird one because
1:05:15
even if you bring in the salary cap, you've got to combine it
1:05:18
with Uefa's rules which which aren't based quite the same so.
1:05:22
So the proposal is under this anchoring rule.
1:05:26
This in theory would work really well for the likes of Newcastle
1:05:29
and Villa. What you do is you take the
1:05:31
money generated from the TV deal of the side finishing bottom of
1:05:36
the Premier League and multiply it by 5 S 110 million which is
1:05:41
your bottom TV. Multiply it by 5.
1:05:43
Every club in the Premier League can spend 550 million on wages.
1:05:48
So that in theory would allow Newcastle to compete with
1:05:51
Manchester United and Liverpool and so on.
1:05:53
But given that if you did that you would file the UEFA rules,
1:05:56
it just seems a bit daft and I know the union are opposed to
1:06:00
it. It if it was then applied in the
1:06:03
EFL Championship, it would mean that every club that was
1:06:06
relegated would be would have to sell practically the whole
1:06:11
squad. So it doesn't make any sense
1:06:14
whatsoever. And I'm be I personally would be
1:06:17
surprised. Manchester United are opposed to
1:06:19
it, Manchester City are opposed to it.
1:06:21
I know Steve Parrish from Palace was behind it.
1:06:24
I think he's big buddy. Amongst the big six clips clubs
1:06:28
was Tim Lewis of Arsenal. He's been given the the heave
1:06:32
hoe. There's been a bit of a night of
1:06:33
the long nights at the Emirates so I'm I'm not sure it will get
1:06:36
enough support. Yeah, fair enough.
1:06:39
OK. And final question from us is,
1:06:42
last time you told us about the potential of VR headsets and
1:06:46
generating revenue abroad, but you think you said that's 5 to
1:06:48
10 years down the line possibly. I guess general question, what's
1:06:52
the next big financial flashpoint you see coming up?
1:06:58
Well, I think we have covered it in in terms of the battle
1:07:01
between the Premier League and the PFA over wage caps.
1:07:06
I think what we will also see is a continued squeeze and decrease
1:07:13
in the number of season ticket holders and, and, and replacing,
1:07:16
especially if if two people leave, they they aren't, they're
1:07:19
not, they're not going to go to new season ticket holders.
1:07:21
So we're going to see, and this won't be at all clubs.
1:07:24
It will be at the big brands who who can replace season ticket
1:07:28
holders with fans who are coming on a day ticket for, you know,
1:07:32
membership fans. There will be a continual drive
1:07:36
for that and clubs will be coming up with more and more
1:07:39
schemes to try to squeeze the legacy fan out of the game.
1:07:45
Well, actually on that, on that one question on the sort of
1:07:48
potential I saw that Lee Gong they couldn't get ATV deal, so
1:07:53
they set up their own. I don't know how all that's
1:07:56
gone. What do you think of?
1:07:57
Terribly. It has been an absolute
1:07:59
disaster. Yeah.
1:08:00
So you don't think the Premier League would think of taking it
1:08:03
away from Sky? Do you think Sky is protected
1:08:05
basically for for for the long term?
1:08:07
Sky's been really good for the Premier League and the Premier
1:08:10
League's been brilliant for Sky so so there is that sort of
1:08:12
symbiotic relationship. I think the Premier League might
1:08:17
try selling some matches to itself and to broadcast them to
1:08:23
work out what works and what doesn't.
1:08:25
But I don't think it's going to do, I don't think it's going to
1:08:27
try to squeeze out Sky Sky's business model would collapse if
1:08:32
you take away the Premier League because we we wouldn't pay £35 a
1:08:36
month for Sky Sports. So.
1:08:38
So it's a case of wait and see. Yeah, there has been some talk
1:08:42
about it, right, in terms of the Premier League doing their own
1:08:45
like more production and like researching it in in behind.
1:08:49
But yeah, I, I, I agree with you, Kieran, it's, you're
1:08:52
talking probably a decade plus before that could actually
1:08:55
happen. Yeah, I, I think Sky will
1:08:57
certainly be in the 2029 TV round, which will take, you
1:09:01
know, that's another four years, takes us to 2033 will the
1:09:04
Premier League clubs. Let's face it, with with some of
1:09:07
the regimes around in this world, if I'm still alive in
1:09:11
2033, I'll probably be counting the blessings.
1:09:13
Yeah, it's just amazing. Like when I was younger in the
1:09:15
initial deals, they were always talking about pay-per-view,
1:09:18
pay-per-view and it's just never happened and it's just amazing
1:09:21
that it's never happened. But good job, yes, Guy have done
1:09:23
a really good job and they're televising more matches this
1:09:26
season than ever. We still have the 3:00 blackout
1:09:29
in the UK and you know, have to find ways around that to, to
1:09:32
see. Go and go and watch non league.
1:09:34
Go go and watch the match National League.
1:09:36
You have a great time. Thank you Kieran so much for
1:09:38
your time we. Really appreciate to meet up
1:09:40
again. All the best, enjoy the rest of
1:09:42
the season.