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‘Evil Mom’ Has Daughter’s Father Executed On Her Birthday · Murder Files Unsealed

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: You know, usually when we talk about a medical diagnosis,
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: there's this this expectation of precision. Like it's almost like engineering. Right.
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: You break your arm. The X-ray shows that jagged white line.
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: And the doctor just points and says, you know, there
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: it is broken or not broken. It's clean.
• 0:16
  Speaker 2: Very binary.
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: Exactly. But then you step into the world of human
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: behavior and suddenly that X-ray machine is just it's totally useless.
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: We are looking at a landscape that is murky and
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: layered and just full of contradictions.
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And taking that exact same concept and applying it
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: to criminal justice, you know, you might look at a
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: crime scene and expect a clearer story, like good guy,
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: bad guy.
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: A sequence of events you can just map out on
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: a whiteboard with a red marker.
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: But when we plunge into the source material today, we
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: are throwing that expectation completely out the window. Oh, absolutely.
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: Absolutely. Because today our mission for you, the listener, is
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: to unpack a massive stack of interrogation transcripts, police reports,
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: and court records surrounding a deeply, deeply disturbing 2019 homicide case.
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: And we aren't just here to figure out how a
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: horrific crime was solved.
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: No, we are going to deconstruct the intense psychology of
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: the interrogation room. We're going to trace the invisible digital
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: mechanics involved. that criminals, you know, unwittingly leave behind.
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: The digital break truck.
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: Right. And we'll examine the incredibly complex legal philosophy when
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: a mastermind and a trigger man both have to face
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: the scales of justice.
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: Here's a really sobering collection of documents. I mean, what
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: really strikes you when you read through these transcripts is
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: the sheer volume of psychological manipulation happening in real time.
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: You are watching a single event being refracted through multiple
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: distorted lenses. depending entirely on who is sitting across from
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: the detective.
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: And what they believe the detective already knows.
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: Exactly.
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: And the hook here, the thing that just stops you
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: dead in your tracks when you read the timeline, is
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: the date.
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: Oh, man.
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah. November 19, 2019. A four-year-old girl's birthday party.
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: Which should be a milestone of absolute joy. Right.
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: There is actual audio in the source material of a
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: loving father spending his last moments with his daughter. You
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: hear the little girl say, uh... Best birthday party in
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: all four years. And her dad says, this is my
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: whole life.
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: It's so pure. It really is.
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: It is. And then you contrast that with the chilling,
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: incredibly sinister plot being hatched at that exact same moment
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: by the child's own mother. It just, it gives you
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: psychological whiplash.
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: It really does.
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: Okay, let's untack this. We have to start with the
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: baseline of that night to understand the sheer chaos law
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: enforcement walked into.
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: So the victim is 35-year-old Edgar Jennings III.
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: And by all accounts in the files, just a regular guy.
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: He was a professional gamer, loved playing Madden football. But
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: the core of his identity, the thing he loved more
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: than anything, was his young daughter.
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and they spent that entire Tuesday celebrating her turning four.
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: But the timeline in the police reports takes a violently
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: dark turn just hours later. Right. By 11.48 p.m., dispatch
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: in Fort Walton Beach starts lighting up. Multiple 911 calls
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: are coming in reporting a break-in, the terrifying sound of gunfire.
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: And a man literally yelling for help at Edgar's apartment
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: on Culp Avenue.
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: And the police response is rapid. But by the time
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: Okaloosa deputies arrive on the scene, they find Edgar Jennings
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: outside his apartment. He has suffered a gunshot wound to
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: the head and he is pronounced dead right there at
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: the scene.
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: It's just a devastating pivot. From blowing out birthday candles
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: to a crime scene tape in a matter of hours.
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and the witnesses in the area give the police
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: almost nothing to work with. I mean, the reports indicate
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: that people saw a thin black male with dreadlocks wearing
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: a red bandana over his face, sprinting away from the area.
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: And that is the entirety of the physical description.
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: Right, like when you synthesize the data from that initial scene,
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: detectives are staring at a void.
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: A total void. They have a chaotic environment, a highly
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: generic suspect description... And zero immediate physical links pointing them
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: toward anyone.
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: A masked stranger running into the night is like the
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: literal definition of a hoodoonit.
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: So they have to rely entirely on victimology.
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: Which is fascinating because I always look at these investigations
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: like throwing a stone into a pond. You don't start
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: by examining the outermost ripples, right? Like the fleeing stranger
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: in the bandana.
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: No, you start dead center at the splash.
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: Exactly. You examine the water closest to the impact. But
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: I wonder about the mechanics of that. Is it just
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: an assumption that in a seemingly random home invasion, law
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: enforcement instantly looks at the X's in the inner circle?
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: Or is there a statistical foundation for that?
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: It's entirely statistical. I mean, random stranger-on-stranger home invasions that
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: end in targeted executions are incredibly rare.
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: Really?
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah. Violence usually has a recognizable face. It has
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: a history and a buildup. So investigators build their foundation
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: by reconstructing the victim's social universe.
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: Who loved him, who hated him.
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: Exactly. Who stood to gain from his absence. You start
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: at the epicenter of the victim and you slowly expand
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: the radius. In this case, following that standard protocol of
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: investigating the inner circle led them straight to the mother
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: of Edgar's child.
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: Right. So detectives bring in Cararisa Lynn Parker. And let's
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: look at her profile based on the reports because it
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: paints a very specific picture of her life at that moment,
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: which seems to inform, you know, everything that follows. She's
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: in her 20s, renting a room. Hovering between permanent housing situations. Right.
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: She's unemployed, piecing together a living, doing temporary babysitting gigs.
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: She's relying on public assistance. She's got a suspended driver's license.
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: And she notes that she's hoping to get her GED.
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: That socioeconomic snapshot is crucial, though. She is experiencing a
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: high degree of instability and stress.
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: And when the detectives ask her about her relationship with Edgar,
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: she immediately categorizes it as toxic. describing a dynamic characterized
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: by frequent, intense arguments.
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: And ongoing tension, especially regarding their four-year-old daughter. Right. But
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: then the transcript takes this bizarre detour. The detectives are
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: just asking general relationship questions, and she launches into this massive,
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: highly specific tangent to explain the tension.
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: The bathtub story.
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: Yes. She claims that the previous Halloween, Edgar attempted to
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: have sex with her while Edgar's current girlfriend, Stacy, was
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: literally in the bathtub in the same apartment. And the
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: punchline of her story isn't even about Edgar's behavior. It's
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: that Stacy was mad at Carissa for being disloyal by
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: not telling her about it sooner. I'm reading this thinking,
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: why on earth are you offering this level of uncomfortable
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: detail to a homicide detective?
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: Because it is a tactical deployment of information.
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: What do you mean?
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: When a suspect is asked a broad question and responds
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: with a highly dramatic, incredibly specific, and somewhat degrading anecdote
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: about the victim, it is an attempt to muddy the waters.
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: It's a psychological defense mechanism. The interviewee tries to subtly
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: align the detective with their own grievances. By painting the
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: victim as morally bankrupt, and in this case, throwing the
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: current girlfriend under the bus as well, Karawis is trying
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: to control the narrative.
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: Okay, I see. So she wants the detectives to subconsciously
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: think that Edgar was a problematic guy who naturally attracted messy,
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: violent situations. It's like she's handing them a daytime soap
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: opera script to distract them from the reality of a murder.
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: If you're the investigator in that room, how do you
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: process that? You have a woman giving you a plot
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: about back tubs and betrayals while the father of her
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: child is lying in the morgue. Do you call her
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: out on the absurdity of it?
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: Actually, no. You actively encourage it.
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: Wait, really?
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah. You nod, you take notes, you offer empathetic responses.
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: What the suspect rarely realizes is that by talking, they
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: are providing a baseline. The detectives aren't evaluating the truth
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: of the bathtub story.
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: They don't care about the bathtub.
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: Not at all. They're evaluating her speech patterns, her baseline
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: anxiety levels, and her willingness to fabricate or exaggerate. They
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: are letting her lock herself into a narrative.
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: And honestly, the most revealing moment of this first interview
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: isn't the bathtub story at all. is her explanation of
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: how she found out about the murder.
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: Right, because detectives ask her how she learned Edgar was dead.
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: Carissa claims that early that morning she called Edgar's mother,
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: who she refers to as Miss Linda, about a totally
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: unrelated issue. And according to Carissa, Miss Linda basically brushed
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: her off, said she had to go to the doctor,
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: and then just flatly stated, you know my son is dead.
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: And we really have to evaluate how Carissa says she
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: reacted to that news.
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: Because she tells the police she was so confused she
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: hit the floor. Yep. She describes having a panic attack, crying,
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: falling apart on the floor at her friend Lacey's house
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: where she was babysitting. She emphasizes over and over that
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: nobody called her and she had to find out by accident.
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: Well, detectives are highly trained to differentiate between performative grief
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: and genuine shock.
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: And how do they do that?
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: Genuine shock often manifests as silence, denial, a literal inability
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: for the brain to process the auditory information. or a
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: barrage of desperate granular questions about the details. Performative grief,
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: on the other hand, is often highly theatrical and cinematic.
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: I hit the floor. It sounds like a stage direction.
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: It is how a person who has watched a lot
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: of television believes someone is supposed to react to tragedy. Furthermore,
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: think about the mechanics of Ms. Linder's alleged reaction. If
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: the mother of a murdered man receives a call from
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: the mother of her grandchild the morning after the homicide,
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: and she truly believes this woman had nothing to do
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: with it, Would she just casually drop, you know my
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: son is dead, as an excuse to get off the phone?
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: It completely defies human nature. If she said that, it
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: implies Ms. Linda already suspected Carissa, or at least their
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: relationship was so fractured she couldn't bear to engage.
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: Exactly.
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: But the detectives don't challenge her on this. They let
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: her talk freely and paint this elaborate picture of her
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: being the aggrieved, traumatized ex-partner.
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: Because once that story is locked in, once she has
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: explicitly stated her timeline her emotions, and her lack of involvement,
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: they have a rigid structure they can test.
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: They box her in.
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they give her a false sense of security and
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: let her walk out of the station. And while she
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: thinks she has outsmarted them, the investigators go straight to
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: the digital evidence to break her story apart into a
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: million pieces.
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: So the investigation completely pivots away from the interrogation room
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: and out into the real world.
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: Police start pulling surveillance footage from the neighborhood near the
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: crime scene on Culp Avenue. And on Carmel Drive, just
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: east of the scene, a camera captures the suspected shooter
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: getting into the passenger side of a sedan shortly after
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: the gunfire.
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: And they identify that vehicle as a 2010 green Hyundai Sonata. Right.
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: Now, in the first interview, Carissa consented to a download
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: of her phone data. And this is where the modern
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: reality of criminal investigation intersects with human error. I don't
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: think people comprehend the sheer volume of metadata their phones
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: generate every single second.
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: We are essentially carrying around high-powered tracking devices that masquerade
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: as communication tools.
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: Right, yeah.
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: When investigators perform a digital extraction, they aren't just looking
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: at text messages. They're looking at cell tower pings.
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: Because a phone is constantly reaching out to the nearest
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: cell tower to maintain a signal.
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: Exactly. Each time it pings, it creates a time-stamped geolocation coordinate.
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: Detectives can map those coordinates to create a highly accurate
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: timeline of a person's physical movements. So the investigators dive
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: into this metadata, and they find a direct connection between
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: Carissa and a 2010 green Hyundai Sonata owned by a
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: friend of hers named Kyra. They also find communications with
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: a suspicious contact, so they have her digital footprint blatantly
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: contradicting her verbal narrative. So they politely invite Kariseth back
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: to the station for a second interview to, you know,
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: clarify a few things.
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: This is where the psychological pressure cooker is turned on.
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: In the first interview, they were information gatherers. In the second,
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: they're information presenters.
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: That's a huge shift. It is.
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: They sit her down and immediately change the tone. The
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: detective tells her straight up that they've looked through her
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: phone and there is concerning material that contradicts her story.
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: And the dismantling of her lies is methodical. First, they
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: ask her about a former co-worker at a place called Equality,
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: a woman named Marilyn. The detective asks, have you ever
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: told Marilyn that you wanted to kill Edgar?
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: And Carissa tries to play it off. She's like, I
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: was upset. I did say that. Did I really mean it?
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: Absolutely not.
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: Notice her immediate pivot to minimization there. She admits to
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: the text because she knows they have the hard copy,
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: but she attacks the intent.
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: Right. She claims she let Edgar get under her skin.
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: She was emotional.
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: But the detective keeps pushing, bringing up texts from just
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: the day before the murder, where she complained that the
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: police wouldn't help her with a restraining order. And then
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: she sent a text saying it was time to call
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: the goons.
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: Time to call the goons. That is an incredibly specific
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: and incriminating phrase. Cararissa claims she doesn't have any goons,
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: that it was just a figure of speech. But the
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: detective is already 10 steps ahead of her. He moves
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: on to her timeline for the night of the 19th.
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: This is the crux of the trap. They ask her
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: what she was doing.
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: Right. She claims she was at her friend Lacey's house,
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: ate dinner, visited her sister, went back to Lacey's. Then
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: the detective asks about a text at 8.10 p.m. where
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: she says she wants to get a whip.
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: And she explains that whip means car.
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah. She says she borrowed Kyra's car, the 2010 green
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: Hyundai Sonata, to go to the grocery store.
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: And the level of detail she provides here is her
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: complete undoing.
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: She says she had her food stamp card and she
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: was taking Kyra's car to a Walmart on Mobile Highway.
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: So the detective points out a text at 8.38 p.m.
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: where Kyra asks what time she'll be back. Kara Rissa
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: replied to Kyra, well, it takes an hour to get
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: there and an hour to get back, so maybe by midnight.
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: Here's where the detective leverages the concept of fixed geography
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: against her law.
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: Because he knows the area.
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: He knows the geography perfectly. He knows that the Walmart
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: on Mobile Highway is only about a 10 to 15
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: minute drive from where she was.
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: Right. And here's where it gets really interesting. He literally
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: stops her mid-sentence and says, I'm going to stop you
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: right there. It's very important that you're extremely honest with
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: me at this point because right now I know you're lying. Ouch.
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: And then he asks the ultimate question. What takes an
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: hour to get from Pensacola to where?
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: The silence that follows that kind of confrontation is just profound.
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: He is letting her know that her timeline is mathematically
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: impossible for a grocery run, but perfectly aligns with a
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: round trip to Fort Walton Beach.
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: I have to ask about the thought process here. Why
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: do people think they can just invent geography in an
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: interrogation room? Did she really think the cops who drive
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: these exact streets every single day wouldn't instantly map the
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: distance to a Walmart? It seems profoundly illogical.
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: Well, it seems illogical from the outside, but it is
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: a direct result of cognitive load.
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: Cognitive load. Yeah.
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: When a person is actively trying to maintain a complex
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: web of lies, the brain is working in overdrive. It
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: has finite processing power. To conserve energy, the brain clings
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: to familiar, mundane details to sound convincing in this case.
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: Having a food stamp card and going to Walmart.
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: Because it's a normal, everyday thing to do. Right.
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: It sounds pedestrian, which makes it feel safe to the liar.
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: But because the brain is devoting so much energy to
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: monitoring the lie, it loses the capacity for spatial and
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: temporal logic. They literally forget that time and distance are
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: fixed variables that police can easily verify.
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: That is wild. So her cognitive load has caused her
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: to trap herself. Her texts say she wants to call
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: the goons, her timeline is destroyed, and the detective links
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: her to a contact named TG, who she admits is
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: the guy she buys her weed from. At this point,
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: the detective does something that feels completely counterintuitive. He doesn't
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: scream at her that she's a cold-blooded murderer. He offers
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: her an out.
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: What's fascinating here is how the detective offers her an
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: out to minimize her culpability. This is a textbook interrogation
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: technique known as minimization.
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: How does it work?
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: The detective presents a narrative that significantly lowers the moral
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: weight of the crime. He suggests that perhaps she didn't
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: tell T.G. to go over there and kill Edgar. He
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: offers the idea that she just sent him over there
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: to scare him or maybe to rob some weed or
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: powder from the girlfriend.
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: And he paints a picture where Edgar probably came out
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: aggressively and things just accidentally escalated. Oh, I see.
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: He's handing her a psychological life preserver. He's framing it
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: so she isn't a monster who ordered a hit on
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: the father of her child. She's just a frustrated mom
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: whose prank got out of hand because the system failed her.
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: Exactly.
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: It is incredibly manipulative, but I can see why it
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: would be effective.
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: It allows the suspect to save face. It reduces the
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: perceived legal consequences in their mind. Now, legally, if someone
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: dies during a felony robbery you orchestrated, you are still
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: on the hook for felony murder.
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: Oh, definitely.
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: But in that high-stress room, The minimized story feels like
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: a safer truth to admit to. It is a mechanism
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: to coax the suspect into placing themselves at the scene
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: of the crime.
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: But despite this intense pressure, Cararissa holds her ground, relatively speaking.
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: I mean, she admits she lied earlier. She admits she
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: vented to her dealer, T.G. And she admits she told T.G.
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: that Edgar lived in Fort Walton. Right. But she absolutely
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: denies ordering a hit, claiming she didn't even give him
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: the physical address. She is clinging to the edge of
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: the cliff.
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: But the police know she's lying. They know she was
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: in the car because of the metadata and the surveillance.
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: But they just don't have the definitive proof of her
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: presence at the scene in her own words. Not yet. No.
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: So the police decide they need to force an unforced error.
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: Two weeks go by. You can imagine Kara Rissa thinking
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: she might have actually navigated her way out of it.
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: Probably.
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: But investigators are working in the background. They use a
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: cooperating individual to arrange a controlled, recorded phone call with
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: Kara Rissa.
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: And this is a highly effective strategy because it changes
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: the environmental context. In a relaxed environment, speaking with a
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: peer outside the interrogation room, suspects experience a drop in
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: their cognitive guard.
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: Right. They will often say things to a friend that
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: they would never say to law enforcement. Oh, exactly. And
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: during this recorded call, Kara Rissa slips up. She refers
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: to the shooter explicitly as T.G., identifying him as Jordan Phillips.
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: But more importantly, she acknowledges driving him to Edgar's residence
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: that night. However.
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: She still doesn't confess to orchestrating a murder. She spins
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: a new narrative. Oh, of course. She claims she was
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: just venting to T.G. about her issues with Edgar and
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: that T.G. suddenly produced a firearm and forced her to
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: take him to the house to, quote unquote, solve the problem.
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: But with this direct audio evidence placing her in the
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: getaway car, the police don't ask her to come to
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: the station this time. They execute an unannounced visit.
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: A surprise drop in.
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they show up at the house in Crestview where
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: she is babysitting for her friends, Terrence and Lacey. If
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: you read the transcript of this interaction, her entire demeanor
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: shifts the second she sees them at the door.
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: Because the confidence she displayed in the first two interviews
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: evaporates instantly. Her immediate reaction is to stall.
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: She says, can I go check on the baby real quick?
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: Is that okay?
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: I just laid them down.
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: This is a fascinating display of human psychology under threat.
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: This specific stalling tactic, asking to step into another room,
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: is a manifestation of the autonomic nervous system's flight response.
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: So it's biological.
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: Absolutely. When confronted by a perceived predator in this case,
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: the detectives, the biological instinct is to create physical distance.
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: By asking to walk away, even for a moment, she
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: is subconsciously testing the boundaries of her freedom. She's trying
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: to gauge without asking directly whether she's is under arrest.
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: Wow. And the detectives don't let her go alone. They
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: say they have to step in with her. And she
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: immediately gets defensive, saying it's not her house, so she
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: can't give them permission to enter. It's an incredibly tense
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: standoff on a front porch.
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: Very tense.
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: Eventually, they read her Miranda rights right there. And this
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: is where she launches into her final, most desperate defense.
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: The hit-a-lick defense. Right.
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: Let's break down the anatomy of this final story, because
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: it requires an examination of the logical fallacies inherent in
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: criminal panic.
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: She tells the police that the original plan was just
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: to hang out with T.G. and buy some weed. She
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: gets Kyra's car, picks T.G. up. She says T.G. then
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: asked her to take him to go hit-a-lick, which is
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: slang for committing a robbery. She agrees. They make a
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: drug drop-off, and then they are riding around. She says
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: she starts venting about Edgar.
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: And this is where she introduces a new variable to
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: explain the murder. T.G. 's mental state. She claims T.G.
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: was acting strange, like his adrenaline was rushing or like
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: he was on heavy drugs, which she claims was unusual
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: for him.
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: According to Carissa, in the middle of her venting, T.G.
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: pulls out a gun, waves it around and says, well,
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: we can go handle this right now. She claims she
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: said no, but that T.G. basically kidnapped her at gunpoint.
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: He forced her to drive to Fort Walton. She even
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: claims she tried to sabotage him by taking him to
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: the wrong house, but he didn't buy it. He goes
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: to Edgar's, she hears shots, he runs back to the car,
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: points the gunner again, and forces her to drive away.
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: That's an extraordinary narrative pivot.
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: I mean, she's gone from, I was at Walmart with
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: my food stamp card, to I was kidnapped by a
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: crazed gunman and forced to be a getaway driver.
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: I want to dissect the plausibility here purely from a
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: behavioral standpoint. Is it remotely common for a hired hitman...
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: or a neighborhood drug dealer who is out looking to
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: commit a robbery for cash to suddenly become a crazed
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: kidnapper who forces the person who hired him to act
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: as the getaway driver at gunpoint.
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: It is statistically and logically absurd. When you study the
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: mechanics of criminal enterprise, violence is usually transactional or deeply personal.
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: A drug dealer looking to hit a lick is motivated
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: by financial gain. Taking a massive detour to murder a
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: stranger in another town simply because the driver is complaining
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: about him, offers zero financial reward and brings an exponential
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: amount of risk. Furthermore, from a purely tactical standpoint, forcing
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: an uncooperative, terrified civilian to be your getaway driver at
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: gunpoint is a terrible decision.
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: Because they'd freak out.
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: A terrified driver under duress is highly likely to crash
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: the car, attract police attention, or simply flee the moment
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: the gunman steps out of the vehicle.
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: Which is exactly what she didn't do. She sat in
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: the car and waited for him to commit the murder
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: and return.
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: Precisely. The logic of her story collapses under the weight
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: of basic human behavior and criminal tactics. But the detectives
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: let her tell it. Because at this point, Carissa is
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: charged as an accessory after the fact.
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: They have her tied to the scene with her own
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: words and digital metadata.
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: But a massive piece of the puzzle is still missing.
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: They have the orchestrator, but they need the man who
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: pulled the trigger.
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: And his version of events is going to blow Carissa's
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: kidnapping story out of the water. Four days after Karras' arrest,
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: the U.S. Marshals locate and arrest 24-year-old Jordan Phillips, the
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: man known as T.G. or Trigger in Pensacola.
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: When investigators begin questioning Phillips, they note a crucial contextual
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: detail that illuminates his mindset. He had been fired from
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: his job earlier that exact same day.
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: That seems like a massive detail. It's not just a
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: bad day. It's a destabilizing event.
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: It operates as a precipitating stressor in forensic psychology. We
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: look for events that push an individual from latent volatility
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: into active violence. Losing a job, facing eviction, a sudden
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: financial crisis. These events create an acute sense of desperation.
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: The individual feels a loss of control and a feeling
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: of having nothing left to lose.
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: So Phillips is in the interrogation room. Initially, he denies
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: any involvement. But as the interview progresses, he caves. He
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: admits he was the shooter. But he completely contradicts Karavisa's
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: story of a spontaneous drug-fueled kidnapping. He reveals that this
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: was a heavily premeditated execution orchestrated entirely by Cararisa.
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: He tells investigators that Cararisa had wanted Edgar, in his words,
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: gone forever, dating all the way back to October or
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: early November. This wasn't a sudden escalation of a bad mood.
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: This was a simmering plot that had been workshopped for weeks.
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: The detail that really stuck with me in the files
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: is the method they were planning to use to avoid detection.
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: The detectives ask Phillips about conversations they had prior to
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: the murder about how to keep it quiet. And Phillips
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: tells them that Carariso was actually brainstorming ideas for a
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: makeshift silencer.
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: He said she asked him if a pillow would work
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: to silence a gunshot. And then he details a conversation
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: about using potatoes.
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: I have to read this exact quote from the transcript
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: because it is staggering. Phillips says, all I heard was
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: about potatoes. And she was like, but I got $ 13.
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: You know, we can go to Walmart and get potatoes.
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: It is a profound juxtaposition of the mundane and the macabre.
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: It's horrifyingly casual. It's like a bad movie script playing
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: out in real life. They are budgeting exactly $ 13 for
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: produce to muffle an execution. It highlights how dangerously detached
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: they were from the reality of taking a human life.
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: It's like they're planning a grocery run, not an assassination.
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: If you compare the physics of a real suppressor to
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: a potato on the barrel of a gun, it just
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: shows how entirely unequipped they were for this reality.
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: It reveals a phenomenon often referred to as the banality
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: of evil. They are not criminal masterminds utilizing high-tech weaponry
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: or sophisticated tactical planning. They are a struggling mother and
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: an unemployed dealer brainstorming with pocket change and root vegetables
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: based on myths they probably absorbed from television tropes.
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, TV logic.
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: Exactly. But while the method is absurd, the intent is
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: absolute and lethal.
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: And going back to the concept of the precipitating stressor,
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: his job loss, it really created a perfect storm for
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: this to happen.
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: If we connect this to the bigger picture... You have
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: a woman harboring a deep-seated toxic resentment, actively searching for
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: a proxy to solve her problem. And on that specific Tuesday,
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: she meets up with a man who has just been fired,
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: who is experiencing acute financial stress, anger, and a sense
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: of powerlessness.
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: He had nothing to lose that day. Right.
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: She points him at a target. She provides the transportation.
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: She provides the geographic location. And she provides the justification.
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: It's a lethal alignment of desperation and premeditated malice.
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: So, the authorities have both the mastermind and the trigger
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: man in custody. Their conflicting stories are laid bare, and
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: the digital forensics support the theory of premeditation. The case
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: moves out of the interrogation room, past the police department,
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: and into the courtroom. And the way the legal system
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: handles these two individuals reveals a fascinating philosophy about justice
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: and culpability.
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: In January of 2020, a grand jury indicts both Carissa
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: Parker and Jordan Phillips. on charges of first-degree premeditated murder. Now,
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: an indictment is a formal accusation, but first-degree premeditated murder
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: carries the highest penalties available under the law.
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: But as the source material notes, this case never actually
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: reaches a trial by jury. Both take plea deals.
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: Which is standard practice. Over 90% of criminal cases in
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: the United States are resolved through plea bargaining.
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: Wow, 90%.
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, it is the vast majority. The mechanism of
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: a plea deal guarantees a conviction for the state, saves
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: the emotional toll on the victim's family of a protracted
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: trial with uncertain outcomes, and offers the defendants a known
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: quantity of punishment rather than risking life without parole or,
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: in some jurisdictions, the death penalty.
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: So let's examine the actual sentences they agreed to because
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: this is where the legal theory gets really interesting. Carissa
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: Parker pleads guilty to second-degree murder with a firearm. In exchange,
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: the judge sentences her to 53 years in prison. with
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: a mandatory minimum of 25 years before she can even
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: be considered for any sort of release.
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: Now, compare that to Jordan Phillips. He also pleads Kelsey
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: to second-degree murder with a firearm, but he pleads guilty
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: to an additional charge, possession of a firearm by a
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: convicted felon.
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: He has a prior felony record, and he is the
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: one who actually walked up to Edgar Jennings and pulled
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: the trigger.
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: Yet his sentence is 40 years, also carrying the 25-year
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: mandatory minimum.
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: This is the part that I think requires some deep exploration. Cararissa,
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: the orchestrator who never touched the weapon during the murder,
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: gets 53 years. Jordan, a convicted felon who shot a
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: man in the head, gets 40 years. She receives 13
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: more years in prison than the actual killer. Can you
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: explain the mechanics behind that legal logic?
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: This disparity speaks directly to the legal philosophy of mens rea,
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: which is the mental state or intent behind a crime,
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: versus actus reus, which is the physical act of the
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: crime itself. When prosecutors and judges evaluate a conspiracy to
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: commit murder, they often view the mastermind, the instigator, as
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: the more profound societal danger.
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: The person who planned it is viewed as more dangerous
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: than the person who executed it?
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: Yes. The legal framework views Jordan Fields as a blunt instrument.
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: He is the weapon. But a weapon sitting on a
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: table is inert until someone picks it up, loads it,
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: and aims it. Carissa Parker set the entire sequence of
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: events in motion. She harbored the grievance. She selected the target.
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: She procured the transportation, and she brought the imminent danger
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: directly to Edgar Jennings' doorstep. Without her animating intent, Jordan
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: Phillips is just an angry guy who got fired from
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: his job that day.
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: So what does this all mean? It really forces you
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: to look at the chain of causality. If Jordan never
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: met Carissa that day, Edgar is almost certainly still alive.
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: Jordan might have robbed someone or gotten into a fight,
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: but he wouldn't have been at that specific apartment complex
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: on Culp Avenue.
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: Conversely. If Carissa had never met Jordan Phillips... would she
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: have just kept looking for another proxy? Would she have
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: just found another goon? Her text to Marilyn saying it
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: was time to call the goons suggests she was actively
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: shopping for someone to commit this violence on her behalf.
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that premeditation is undeniable.
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: The legal system looks at that persistent premeditated malice. and
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: determines that the architect of the crime requires a harsher
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: penalty than the contractor who built it. The architect possesses
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: a sustained intent to cause harm, which is far more
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: difficult to rehabilitate than a single act of violence triggered
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: by situational desperation.
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: It's a heavy concept to digest. The legal system has Spoker,
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: leaving decades of prison time in its wake, a combined
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: 93 years behind bars for a toxic dispute that escalated
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: beyond all reason. An assassination on a child's birthday, undone
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: by a digital trail, a bizarre $ 13 potato plan, and
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: the sharp tactics of detectives who refuse to buy a
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: fabricated story.
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: The legal system has balanced its scales through these plea deals,
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: but the real cost of the crime goes far beyond
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: the cell block.
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: As we wrap up this deep dive into the source material,
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: we've analyzed the victimology, the perpetrators, the digital forensics, and
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: the legal outcomes. But there is someone else at the
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: center of this tragedy whose story doesn't end with a
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: gavel strike.
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: This raises an important question, perhaps the most profound one
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: of all, about the profound lifelong psychological inheritance of that
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: four-year-old daughter. Yeah. We invite you to consider what it
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: means for a child whose absolute last memory of her
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: father is a joyous birthday party. The audio of him
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: telling her she is his whole life to be that
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: child and to eventually have to grow up and learn
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: as an adult that the other person in the world
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: who was meant to protect her mother used that very
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: same night to orchestrate his murder. How does a person
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: reconcile the gift of their own life with the ultimate
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: betrayal by the person who gave it to them?
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: It is a staggering psychological burden that outlasts any prison sentence.
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: It really takes us back to where we started, expecting
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: the clean lines of an x-ray and instead finding a murky,
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: devastating reality that takes a lifetime to process. Thank you
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: all for joining us on this deep dive into the
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: sources and for taking the time to explore the complex
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: mechanics of human behavior with us. Keep questioning the world
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: around you. Keep looking beneath the surface. And we will
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: catch you on the next one.