Latest / Clean Power Hour / Solar Sheep: The Future of Sustainable Vegetation Control in Renewable Energy | EP220

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Solar Sheep: The Future of Sustainable Vegetation Control in Renewable Energy | EP220 · Clean Power Hour

• 0:51
  JR Howard: You know, just recently we did a big water line and fencing project, just to give you some idea on a 3000 acre solar side. He was a$200,000 range, cost and construction. But on the back end, it was in a 50 $60,000 range discount on him vegetation going forward. So it's a really fast return. And then this site has water all access all over their site. And it was just a way it was an easy, easy decision for them. So
• 1:15
  intro: are you speeding the energy transition? Here at the Clean Power Hour, our hosts, Tim Montague and John Weaver bring you the best in solar batteries and clean technologies every week? I want to go deeper into decarbonisation. We do two, we're here to help you understand and command the commercial, residential and utility, solar, wind and storage industries. So let's get to it.
• 1:36
  intro: Together, we can speed the energy transition.
• 1:43
  Tim Montague: Where the solar farm summit Welcome to the Clean Power Hour. I'm Tim Montague, your host check out all of our content at cleanpowerhour.com.
• 1:48
  Tim Montague: Today, my guest is Jr. Howard.
• 1:54
  Tim Montague: He is the owner of Texas Solar Sheep. Welcome to the show, Jr.
• 1:58
  Tim Montague: Neil. Thank you, Tim. Good to hear you, sir. So, as we were talking in the pre show, there's this wave of solar grazing happening in the US, you're based in the Texas market. Tell us a little bit about the market. And how you became aware of solar grazing.
• 2:14
  JR Howard: Sure. friend of ours, de la Valdez, probably three and a half years ago, had recommended we look into solar grazing we were a sheep producer, you know, ranch and things like that. And, of course, we didn't know anything about solar, it just you know, solar Drazen to us was just alien term, I guess. So we, you know, we did a lot of research, we joined asga Solar grazing Association, and I spent six or eight months probably doing research. And then we went looked at our looked at the first site that the ELI knew about that was up for contract and and looked it over and put a proposal and couple months later, we were awarded that on a kind of a test basis. You know, we did we put 500 views on about a quarter of a turn 60 megawatt site in northeast Texas. And it was supposed to be a six month pilot project about three months into that the owners at that site were last source VP, they saw, you know, the benefits of that and just said, Hey, let's go ahead and, and work out a contract on the whole site. So we got on that whole site then.
• 3:14
  JR Howard: And now we're three years later, we're little on a little over five gigawatts in the lower 10,000 sheep on solar shown.
• 3:23
  Tim Montague: So there's, there's kind of two industries that are that are coming together now. Right, you, you got the Texas solar industry, which is now eclipsed the California market in terms of the amount of solar being installed on an annual basis. So you've marked it, and then you have a traditional ranching industry. So you were doing sheep grazing before there was solar sheep grazing? How has your business changed as a result of this advent of solar grazing?
• 3:50
  JR Howard: Well, we're not we're not a big landowner, I have access to lots of land. So really, for us, there's no way we could have scaled anywhere near where we are now without the access with solar. So we've taken what was a small operation in terms of where we are now, and been able to scale it into something much larger without having all that land access prior. So and, you know, the thing is, we've morphed that into, you know, it is a so it is a vegetation management business. So we, we do a hybrid program, we do mowing and mechanical mowing and cut in combination with grazing to, to meet the side goals for vegetation.
• 4:23
  Tim Montague: And so in a way, you're becoming a full service all at em around vegetation and
• 4:28
  JR Howard: deserts. We've had to the initially, we got some some sheep on the sides. But now basically, the asset owners want one vendor to take care of all of it. So we provide that all in solution for for vegetation maintenance for the for year round. So we have mowing crews, we have folks that take care of sheep, and then some folks that do both, but we but we do operate these as a full time Ranch, if you want to call it each each side, we're on very large sites in Texas and we operate as a full time Ranch, we have full time local employees use local vendors and try to make that whole kind of circular economy work their locale. So So
• 5:04
  Tim Montague: tell us a little bit about how solar developers are accommodating sheep, are there special equipment or accommodations that they need to make in order to easily graze sheep on their site?
• 5:16
  JR Howard: Well, really, really, we can take almost any Solar City, newer developed solar saw the way they're built on now and make sheep work, okay. But there are ways to get involved in the development phase to end construction to actually build them where they're more built for grazing. And in doing that, it really is a long term play for lnM to be cheaper down the road for the operator. So if you were getting involved in development now, and you're able to put in some water lines and some cross fencing and some things like that, that assist us in a better grazing program. But on the back end of that, if that's all put in front were able to give them a cheaper Oh nm rate going forward so that that investment is recouped very fast for the asset owner.
• 5:58
  Tim Montague: Yeah, my understanding is that asset owners can save perhaps 10% on the lnM cost by using grazers, right? Oh, yeah, we've
• 6:06
  JR Howard: seen we on a very large project, we've seen up to 20 25% of our mechanical. So that's a big number. And, you know, we've, you know, just recently we did a big waterline and fencing project, just to give you some idea on our 3000 acre solar site, it was a$200,000 range, cost and construction. But on the back end, it was in a 50 $60,000 range discount on Oh nm, vegetation going forward. So it's a really fast return. And then this site has water all access all over their site. And it was just a way it was an easy, easy decision for them. So
• 6:40
  Tim Montague: how important is water access,
• 6:42
  JR Howard: that's the most important that's probably one of our biggest cost as if some of these sites don't have any water at all. Water hauling is our biggest expense. Okay, so if we have access to water that just cuts down on what our proposal is for the site. We're lucky in East Texas, most of my stuff's in East Texas east of I 35. We do have some surface water as long as they'll leave it when they develop the site. So we do have some ponds and stuff to use. And all that goes into that bid, you know, on what that cost Oh, nm for the asset owner? So yeah, every piece of that, that helps us we can be cheaper on the on the vegetation management?
• 7:12
  Tim Montague: And what about the species of plants that are planted on the site? Does that need to change in order to properly graze sheep?
• 7:18
  JR Howard: Well, they're sending those to this now in development and just saying, hey, does this work in this area for you guys, so do number one, we want it to be something that does grow in the area, something that is going to help keep the erosion problem from happening, and and also something that she can control. So we are we have tweaked some of those seed mixes, these companies have actually gotten a lot better in the last couple of years of finding what that local seed mix is that really works well. And dictating that to the construction side, we, the older sites, they really just left it up to the construction company to seed with kind of whatever they wanted to. And of course, that's going to be probably the cheapest thing that may or may not work. So now most of these owners are dictating hey, here's our seed mix we want to use, and you guys are gonna find it. But here's, here's the layout of what we want to see. Yeah.
• 8:03
  Tim Montague: But there's been some give and take on that. On that mix. Yes,
• 8:06
  JR Howard: that Oh, yeah.
• 8:06
  JR Howard: They've been sending that to us and basically leaving the dust.
• 8:07
  JR Howard: Hey, is there anything here we need to take out? Is there something we need to add? Yeah, most of the time. Recently, they've been in really good work and really good with local Extension agents or things like that in the area that are added folks that know what's going to work there. And they've got a pretty good mix to start with. A lot better than it was even just three years ago.
• 8:26
  Tim Montague: Oh, got and tell us a little bit about the sheep industry, you know, I have strong ties to Scandinavia, where she growing is very popular. But in the US, you don't run into it a whole lot in the Midwest, where I'm from here in Illinois. But what is the status of that industry? Well, that's
• 8:42
  JR Howard: gonna be the problem going forward is, you know, really, this is the biggest opportunity for the sheep industry in my lifetime is he's putting sheep back into this country that doesn't have that as an as he may be 100 years.
• 8:52
  JR Howard: But the problem is, we don't have enough sheep. You know, and I think we're coming up against that with solar faster than people thought we were even just in Texas, where it was kind of the, you know, we've got huge numbers of sheep, but they're, we're already running into issues finding enough sheep for the solar farms. But there is a huge land market in the US, we're still importing, I think over 60% of the land consumed in the US is imported. We just don't have that volume. Since World War Two, you know that the sheet volumes really down, down, kind of consistently. So I think the the solar is going to be huge for the sheep industry, we just have to make sure that we're kind of get our arms around it and making sure we're supplying the sheet needed for this going forward. Because it is going to be tough to, especially in some of these areas, like the Midwest northeast that don't have large groups of sheep. And they're building 1000 acre solar farm, they may need 1000 or 1500.
• 9:39
  JR Howard: Sheep, well, there may not be 1000 cheaper than 100 miles of that area, you know, yeah. Some of that's going to be tough, there's gonna be some supply issues. And what is
• 9:49
  Tim Montague: the rule of thumb in terms of the number of head of sheep per acre of solar?
• 9:51
  Tim Montague: Well, there's
• 9:54
  JR Howard: a wide variance on what kind of vegetation is there and what kind of rainfall you see. I mean, we've we've seen everywhere from half acre per sheep to for sheep per acre. So there's a huge range, there are a lot of that just depends on what the prior land use was, how much vegetation you have, and, you know, rainfall and some of the things like that, so Okay.
• 10:12
  Tim Montague: And what would you say to other ranchers who are considering getting into solar grazing game?
• 10:19
  JR Howard: Number one is just understand it is a service business. I mean, we all think of it as grazing, but really, we're providing a vegetation management service. And if you're interested in being in service business, and having customers and then making all that work, you know, it's going to work for you. But if you go into thinking, hey, this is just like my farm at home, I get to go by all my rules, and, you know, all that you're gonna have a little rougher time. So, you know, once we go in these gates on the solar farms, where we're working under their rules, and then, you know, that's just the way it is, but I think if they think of it number one as a service business, they'll do they'll do really good Yeah, if they think they if they go into just thinking it's another grazing lease, I think they're gonna have trouble.
• 10:56
  Tim Montague: Is there anything that you're looking for here the solar farm summit as a glazier yourself, um,
• 11:02
  JR Howard: I'm just trying to network and share what I do know, you know, we're speaking in a couple of sections of it.
• 11:07
  JR Howard: You know, the networking is just a big deal for me, you know, just just kind of staying relevant, you know, and but, but there's a lot of ideas here, we're, we've also moved into cutting hay, we're doing some no tills seeding now on our sites, so we're not just doing sheep.
• 11:18
  JR Howard: You know, we cut 600 round bales last year on solar. So I think that number could easily triple next year for us. And then so there's a lot of other farm enterprises that could go along with what we're doing. But the sheep are just the easiest to get on site. And, you know, once we get confidence of the owners, hey, these guys know what they're doing. The sheep are doing a great job. Can we now try to cut hay or whatever that next step is? I think it's really a stepping stone to more options. So I'm here. Hopefully, I can talk to some folks that have done some of these other options, even if it's at small scale where I can figure out how to make it work and big scale.
• 11:49
  JR Howard: Yeah,
• 11:52
  Tim Montague: you mentioned lightsource, lightsource. BP, they're doing a lot of solar grazing and other other big developers that you can name that you're working with or have
• 12:01
  JR Howard: in l just started a huge program in Texas, it's a little over two gigawatts, I guess. All in One whack. So that's, uh, that's one of the biggest, probably single deals I've seen. We're a big part of that. There's another operator too. We do a lot of work for Softbank SP energy, they're, they're very big that they want sheep on pretty much every one of their sites. So those have been big partners. adapture renewables is another good one.
• 12:24
  JR Howard: Like they're, they're getting to where they're, they're grazing almost all their sites as well.
• 12:30
  JR Howard: So Gabbay adapture. Yes, sir.
• 12:30
  JR Howard: Okay. And, but yeah, and they'll just did more of the bigger probably single deals I've heard of today. You know, it's a, I think it might have been two and a half gigawatts, but it's a lot of land in Texas. And there's that we've already moved sheep on for those sites and sheep are moving on to for more in the next couple of weeks. So yeah, though, that that's a big one.
• 12:51
  JR Howard: Salt makes a big one in law course. Last source kind of always been the leader. And we've got to get out there first. I'm doing a lot of that so bad down in Texas anyway.
• 13:01
  Tim Montague: Yeah, I'm a big fan of Lexi Haynes. She's now the Director of solar grazing and at BP lights where Oh, yeah.
• 13:08
  Tim Montague: And, you know, one of the founding directors of Aza which I know you're involved with is yes. Oh, American Solar grazing, it says you're fishing.
• 13:17
  JR Howard: Yeah. And that's one of the best. You know, for us, for somebody new, that's probably the best place to go. I mean, that those member pages on AZKALS page, or just have so many podcasts, and so much information, you know, you kind of got to pull out the information that fits your area of the US, you know, where you're where you're at may not fit what what they're doing in the northeast, but it may fit at a different scale or so you gotta there's there's so much information there, though, for the cost is just a, that was the best thing for us starting out with just having all that information at our fingertips and trying to figure out if it was something we wanted to look at or not set. And I try to help with that a lot. We do a lot of podcasts on there. And I'm on the advisory board and just try to, you know, we had so much help starting out, I'm trying to, especially things like this, I'm trying to help others where I can, because we just we need more, we need more good people involved, we don't have enough people involved, we don't have enough sheep involved. So we just we got to try to get the right phones, we just started the we did the first solar grazing certification school in Texas this spring, we had over 40 people I think at that that event, so we did a few days of classroom instruction, I helped with the I was one of the instructors. And then we went out actual to the solar side the last day and got the load there show folks kind of what I was involved.
• 14:25
  Tim Montague: So so if you're if you're getting in the business of solar grazing, you can now become a certified solar days.
• 14:33
  Tim Montague: So
• 14:34
  JR Howard: there's a American land board is putting on a class and each quarter of the US and then there's other actual separate service companies doing certified school. So they all go through, ask them to get a certified get their criteria certified. Yeah. And then you can actually go to the school.
• 14:49
  JR Howard: And I think it'll help a lot of new folks too. When they go to an asset developer, and they say, Hey, I did go to the school, you know, at least I know a little bit about what I'm doing what I'm getting myself into. So, you know, that's always the hardest one is that first side getting on the first side, getting that confidence from a, from an asset owner to get started. And once you do, and they see what you can do that it's a sure a lot easier to get work after that. But that first one is tough. So I'm hoping this school will help you know, at least give them some initial training, know what they're getting ourselves into number one, you know, and then decide if that's for them or not. And then if it is then a least they have that basis to go off when they go approach a developer or asset owner, you know, well, what
• 15:26
  Tim Montague: else should we know about your business or the industry?
• 15:30
  JR Howard: You know, like said I think it's kind of wide open around now. Somebody wants to get involved that's, that's good at working with people can you know can manage a service business, it's really we're really still on the front end of it, even though we're a couple years in I mean, there's people been sold raising for 15 years, especially in small sites in the northeast, but as far as large scale the last three or four years. It's really blown up and opportunity's there I said I'd said, There's no way we could ever have more than three 400 sheep on the land we had to operate with. So it's just a, it's just been a huge opportunity for me and my family. My boys help all the time. And it's just, I think it's gonna be a good long term situation for sheep ranchers.
• 16:06
  Tim Montague: Well, thank you, Jr, Howard, the our Texas solar sheep. Check out all of our content at Cleanpowerhour.com.
• 16:13
  Tim Montague: Please give us a rating and a review on Apple and Spotify. And reach out to me on LinkedIn. I love hearing from my listeners.
• 16:20
  Tim Montague: With that. I'm Tim Montague.
• 16:20
  Tim Montague: Let's grow solar and sheep.