Latest / Blue Grit Podcast: The Voice of Texas Law Enforcement / #068-"The Lady Law Shield"

Transcript

#068-"The Lady Law Shield" · Blue Grit Podcast: The Voice of Texas Law Enforcement

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: let's talk about brady yep brady giglio it's ugly promise you, all 246 district attorneys are enforcing brady differently.
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: Yes, because there is zero consistency.
• 0:14
  Speaker 2: Yep, um share a little bit about brady okay, so here's your law school class in 30 seconds.
• 0:21
  Speaker 2: Hey, blue grit podcast.
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: We are back this week with co-host clint mcnear and tyler owen school class in 30 seconds.
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: Hey, Blue Grit Podcast.
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: We are back this week with co-host Clint McNair and.
• 0:29
  Speaker 3: Tyler Owen.
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: How have you been TO?
• 0:31
  Speaker 3: Good Good Hanging out, getting ready for this is my first year down in the old hill country with all the rivers and lakes, and getting ready for that, getting my dad bod ready there you go.
• 0:43
  Speaker 3: It's going to be a good time in the western front.
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: Dad bod in the speedo.
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: I don't know about all that.
• 0:50
  Speaker 3: I don't know about all that, but I'm getting ready School's fixing to be out.
• 0:55
  Speaker 3: Kids are getting excited, I'm sure.
• 0:57
  Speaker 3: Like everybody else, I'm ready for school to be done.
• 0:59
  Speaker 3: So hopefully all of our listeners, watchers, viewers, y'all's kids are doing great.
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: Y'all's kids.
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: That's about Texan.
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: As you can get, it's a little East.
• 1:09
  Speaker 3: Texan, actually Excuse me.
• 1:10
  Speaker 3: Y'all's children have done an amazing or had an amazing school year, like mine.
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: Police Week in DC May 11 through 15?
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: .
• 1:20
  Speaker 3: I think the 13th, 14th and 15thth, somewhere in that that range, you and I'll be going remembering our fallen.
• 1:27
  Speaker 3: It's gonna be a good time.
• 1:29
  Speaker 3: It's gonna be a good time to honor those who, uh, who paid the ultimate sacrifice.
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: Um, you've gotten to go right once or twice before uh, I went prior to tmpa when we put one of my guys on the wall and I've been 10 or 11 years ago as TMPA.
• 1:46
  Speaker 3: I'm I'm very much looking forward to it.
• 1:47
  Speaker 3: We're going to be, uh, co-branding some stuff with relentless and I'm just I'm looking forward to going up there.
• 1:53
  Speaker 3: It's going to be very, very, very emotional, so it is definitely a bucket list to attend.
• 1:58
  Speaker 3: Are you going to?
• 1:58
  Speaker 3: Are we going to hang out?
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: Possibly.
• 2:01
  Speaker 3: Okay, well, I hope I hauled you to it.
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: I hope we got on today we have on world famous, infamous, famous attorney from the Houston area, Bridget Truxillo.
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: You did it right, truxillo.
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: Yes, I've been working on it.
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: I practiced all morning driving down here, three hours from Dallas driving.
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you nailed it Welcome on Welcome home.
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: Thank you, how was your drive-in?
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: It was beautiful and pleasant.
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: Only two hours and 15 minutes for me, so better, but I just love driving through the whole country.
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: It's just so pretty you must live on the non-crazy side of Houston.
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: I do, yes, she was thinking about that?
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: Yes, I did she was thinking about that.
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yes, I just think about it, but I live, you know, on the west side of houston, so it's so easy for me from a driving perspective, it's perfect to just hop right beltway to two, nine.
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: Wait, which way did I take, because it doesn't take me 290, it took me.
• 2:56
  Speaker 3: I tend to something, something I will say there's a stretch there on that end that, uh, I'm sure you've been to louisiana oh, I'm from Louisiana.
• 3:03
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 3:03
  Speaker 3: Well then, there you go, their roads.
• 3:05
  Speaker 3: How can I say this delicately without upsetting anybody?
• 3:08
  Speaker 3: They're not the best.
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: In Louisiana.
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: Oh God, they're horrible throughout the state.
• 3:12
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like driving on the moon.
• 3:13
  Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, If I've never driven on the moon, but if I did and I would feel like it not fun to drive on and I tend to drive a little bit over the speed limit.
• 3:28
  Speaker 3: Yeah, me too.
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: I'm a good driver, I think.
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: So as soon as we end here in an hour, I'm headed to Galveston.
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: What is that?
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: Three hours?
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, you're going to hit some traffic, my friend.
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's going to take you more than three hours, but two hours and 15 minutes to my side of Houston, 45 minutes to get through Houston and then out.
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: 45 minutes to an hour.
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: Okay, yeah.
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: For our non-Texan listeners.
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: We have a bunch of people from outside Texas and outside the United States.
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: Wow, you can drive what?
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: 12 hours across Texas and still be in Texas.
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: So when I moved to Texas from Florida, the same amount of time it took me to get from Miami to Texas.
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: It would take me that same amount of time to get across Texas.
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: That's crazy, yeah, and four of it could be rush hour in Houston.
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: Well.
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: I mean if it's rush hour in Houston.
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: you might as well just pull over, yeah.
• 4:23
  Speaker 3: That is the worst trafficked city in, I would say, America.
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: Well, but I was in Dallas in January for continuing CLA, continuing legal education class, and the traffic there was outrageous.
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: And I don't spend much time in Austin, but my understanding is that it's a bit congested.
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: Austin is bad too, but it's just Houston's just so big, I mean you go from just from one side to the other side, even without traffic, is a good, solid 45 minute drive, so throw traffic in it and just hold on.
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: That's crazy.
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: We like to start each episode of who the hell's Bridget?
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: It's a good question.
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: Um, so, my name is Bridget Truxillo.
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: Hi, I am an attorney.
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: Thank you.
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: I live in Houston, texas.
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: I'm not from Texas.
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: I lived in Florida for 15 years, which is where I'm an attorney now.
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: I've been an attorney for a long time.
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: Before that, I was a deputy sheriff in Florida.
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: Well, yes, before I became an attorney, I went to the University of Florida for college.
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: Go Gators.
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: Anybody watching.
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: I'm a proud member of the Gator Nation, born in Louisiana.
• 5:29
  Speaker 3: Born in Louisiana.
• 5:29
  Speaker 3: That's shocking.
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: I'm from the south.
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: I was born in Louisiana, I've lived in Missouri, oklahoma, arkansas, back to Louisiana and then I went to the University of Florida.
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: Week after I graduated I went to the police academy, ended up working for Alachua County, which is where Gainesville is, in Alachua County which is where the college is.
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: And then when I quit, I went to a small Catholic university for law school in Miami, North Dade.
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: For anybody that's familiar with the area Also, my dad lived in the Keys at the time, Not a bad gig.
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: No, when I was broke as all get out in law school, I would just go spend my weekends with my dad.
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: Roughing it, roughing it on the boat, you know going dolphin fishing, but you know.
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: It was not awful.
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he doesn't live there anymore, sadly.
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: He's still in Florida, but just not in the Keys.
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: But yeah, so then I moved to Texas for my now husband.
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: So I blame it on him.
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: It's all his fault.
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: Otherwise I would be living in Florida on the water with a boat in my backyard and I always say but this is okay too, Just kidding.
• 6:32
  Speaker 3: What is the Netflix series that the?
• 6:34
  Speaker 3: It's the family, the guys, a cop and the brother is a piece of shit and he ends up getting.
• 6:40
  Speaker 3: He ends up killing the brother.
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: Is that based on the keys?
• 6:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I, you end up killing the brother.
• 6:46
  Speaker 3: Is that based on the Keys?
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I can't remember the name of it, you know what I'm talking about, though, right when they got the beautiful beach in the background.
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, is it Bosch?
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: No, no, no.
• 6:51
  Speaker 3: I'll tell you the name of that one too.
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: You're going to get hooked on that one too.
• 7:02
  Speaker 3: I'm bad about'd like that one.
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: It's really good, I have an addiction issue in the sense that once I start something, I cannot stop.
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: I have that similar addiction.
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: If I get into the show I have three kids that I will start ignoring and not feeding them dinner or bathing them.
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: But my kids are a little bit older.
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: Thankfully they can feed themselves sometimes, but sometimes I'm afraid to get into a series because I can't control myself.
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: I understand that.
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: So, growing up, what led you down the law path?
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: That was by default.
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: I went to, like I said, University of Florida.
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: I actually have a degree in horticulture plants.
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: We'll talk about that on another episode.
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: I'll tell you help all your plant problems, Just kidding it's been a long time yeah.
• 7:48
  Speaker 3: I knew what that was.
• 7:49
  Speaker 3: I'm glad you specified that for the listener out there.
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: That'll help lighten understanding.
• 7:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: Yep, um, when I came time to graduate, I didn't really want to, so I was in when I chose it and then realized I didn't want to be an engineer.
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: And then I.
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: So I changed my major.
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: I was agricultural and biological engineering.
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: I switched it to the college that horticulture was still in the college of ag agriculture.
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: I wanted a job that was outside.
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: I just couldn't picture myself being in an office for the rest of my life.
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: And then I came time to graduate, like well crap, I don't want to grow celery for the rest of my life, cause that was my specialty.
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: My degree was like mass production of like celery or poinsettias, or I just couldn't imagine.
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: I just sounded like marijuana, you know.
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: So and then I go, what am I going to do with my life?
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: And then decided to do law enforcement and I thought I wanted to do, like FBI, something federal, and I went through the local route to become, hopefully, federal someday.
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: But no one in my family has ever been in law enforcement before.
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: My dad thought I was nuts.
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: Many times in my life he thought I was nuts and I wanted a job.
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: I chose law enforcement partially because I thought normally, you know, it's active, it's outside, it's not just an office job.
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: And also I thought I wanted something that required me to be fit, because at the time I was working out and active.
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: But I was in my 20s and I thought, well, I don't know if I'll always be motivated for this, but if I get a job that makes me be fit, that'd be great.
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: Of course I became a cop and realized you don't have to be fit for that job.
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: You should be, but a lot of people are not.
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: And so that's what led me to law enforcement.
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: And then my story with that is I was deputy sheriff.
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: I did patrol for about a year.
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: Then I went to the undercover narcotics unit for the rest of the time for a little over three years.
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: And right after I got on the narcotics unit I also got on SWAT team.
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: So I was the only female member of SWAT.
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: And because I was the only female member of SWAT team I quit law enforcement and that's what led me to becoming an attorney.
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: So while I figured it's all the law, it was not my plan to become an attorney, and even that journey has changed a lot.
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: I did not like it very much.
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: I got a job so I could start to pay back my bills.
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: That's when I moved to Texas.
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: And then about four years ago is when I just finally couldn't take the law firm life and decided it was just time for me to.
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: I knew I wanted to help.
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: Even though I quit law enforcement because of my experiences there, I knew I wanted to help cops again someday.
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: I still believe in the mission of what we're all supposed to be doing and I say we because I was in it.
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: I still include myself, and so this is my way of I want to help cops live a happy life and try and balance what the job does to them, and my way of doing that is helping with the problems they face at work.
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: So I specialize in employment-related issues for law enforcement and first responders.
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: I have non-first responder clients, but I specialize in law enforcement just because I mean I know the world, I've lived in, I've walked it, I can talk it.
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: So that's what.
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: That's the long way of answering me to the law question.
• 10:54
  Speaker 3: We got a legal call the other day.
• 10:55
  Speaker 3: I don't know if it was Clint or another field rep, but just to just touch on talk to the member, for those in law enforcement that are listening or watching, talk about how crucial it is to and, if they are an event, that they believe that they are either under investigation, facing an internal affairs how important it is to either reach out to tmpa or seek legal immediately prior to giving a statement, prior to talking to internal affairs, because we see that often.
• 11:25
  Speaker 3: I think people are scared from an association standpoint.
• 11:29
  Speaker 3: I think people don't.
• 11:30
  Speaker 3: They think that when they call, they waste our time.
• 11:33
  Speaker 3: That's the perception on their end.
• 11:36
  Speaker 3: I don't want to call those guys.
• 11:37
  Speaker 3: You know they got better and the reality is is that we all have the mindset here that and we work for them.
• 11:43
  Speaker 3: I mean they're our customers Right.
• 11:44
  Speaker 3: All have the mindset here that and we work for them.
• 11:47
  Speaker 3: I mean they're our customers right.
• 11:47
  Speaker 3: And so talk about how crucial it is for someone to do that and the mistakes that can be made if they don't.
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: Well, first, as I will say, your mistakes begin when you don't call someone right away.
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: I mean right away.
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: You're going to say something.
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: You shouldn't say.
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: You're going to not say something.
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: You should say You're not going to stand up for yourself in some way.
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: You should, because I know from experience because I was investigated by Internal Affairs too if you're in the job long enough, it happens to you.
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: I think if you're a good enough cop, you sometimes step in it and you're going to be investigated and it's all good if you do the right things.
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: But it has to happen right away for so many reasons.
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: One is that while you might think you know all the law, you don't know all the law, and I'm sending it to so many cops out there.
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: You think, well, you might know criminal law and you might know what murder is.
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: You might know if I can give somebody the speeding ticket or if it's reckless driving or whatever, but that does not mean you know civil law.
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: I'm sure you do not know your federal employment rights and so right away you should contact somebody.
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: I'm a huge proponent of.
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: I say all the time I do not take the place of your union lawyer.
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: Your union lawyer will do things for you that you already pay for, that you do not have to pay for me.
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: And yet, as you guys are aware, there's certain things union lawyers don't do, like file a harassment, discrimination claim with the EEOC or the TWC for here in Texas or eventually a lawsuit for that.
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: You guys don't do that part of it.
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: I mean, granted, tmpa can cover part of that, but I work with union lawyers all the time.
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: I have talked with several TNP lawyers in Texas and the point being, right away, if you need to protect your rights from the very beginning, you're not going to know exactly what those rights are.
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: That's my job, that's y'all's job and you at least should call and say quickly, like, here's what's happening.
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: Should I, should you help me, or should, bridget, you know as me?
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: Like, should I hire you to help me?
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: And certainly with you guys.
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: Absolutely Another piece I think that's so important about what you guys do is that, like when I was in this situation, I didn't have a.
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: I was a different union.
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: Maybe I'll just leave the name out still not don't regret being in the union because I had, you know, if I'd ever been indicted they would have represented me, but they offered me no help whatsoever and face the issues I was facing inside my department because the guy that I would have called on was kind of part of the problem.
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: What I love about what you guys do is that you are external and they can call you and they don't have to worry about somebody hearing what you're saying.
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: And so I think, for multiple reasons, is call somebody outside your agency.
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: If you're worried about somebody hearing about you seeking help, if you're worried about retribution or retaliation, if you do call one of us, all the more reason why you should talk to one of us, because if you're worried about retaliation, you need to be covering yourself and getting that story out and talking to somebody who's experiencing it from the very beginning.
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: And another big, huge piece of that is because you are going to need support through this.
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: If you start to report something or make a claim, they might come out to you harder, they might retaliate against you.
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: You're going to get scared, you're going to get freaked out.
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: You might say never mind, but I promise no matter.
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: If one of those things happen is it's going to affect your mental health negatively and you need somebody there to support you, to encourage you and to cheer you on and say no, this is not right.
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: We need to fight back on this.
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: This is how we're going to help you through it, whether that's me or you guys.
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: But yes, 100% right away.
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: Call somebody to get help and support.
• 15:07
  Speaker 3: And our legal plan, just for clarification to the listener out there.
• 15:09
  Speaker 3: I would probably guess three to four phone calls a day and we're fixing to touch on this.
• 15:16
  Speaker 3: Our legal plan follows the ERISA trust.
• 15:20
  Speaker 3: It's outlined, it's on our website.
• 15:22
  Speaker 3: You can look at it.
• 15:24
  Speaker 3: It's outlined, it's on.
• 15:26
  Speaker 3: It's on our website, you can.
• 15:26
  Speaker 3: You can look at it.
• 15:27
  Speaker 3: We, the board of directors, things can be appealed to them through our legal plan.
• 15:30
  Speaker 3: But if a member is going through a situation to file a civil lawsuit, that's that's not really in our bread and butter.
• 15:36
  Speaker 3: Okay, our bread and butter is going to be criminal, it's going to be administrative.
• 15:41
  Speaker 3: That's not really what tmpa we on the civil side.
• 15:44
  Speaker 3: If you're being sued, that's something that we are, our legal plan is going to cover and so what we will do is refer our members to private practice attorneys such as her.
• 15:56
  Speaker 3: So when she says stuff like that, it's just, and all these stuff again is outlined in our legal plan there on our website.
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: Clint did I make because we talked about this the other day there are proactive suits that we take where the board approves funding for proactive suits.
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, um, those are reviewed and made above mine, in your, above mine in your level.
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: One of the one thing I'd like to hit on you brought up.
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: You know people call and um harassment in the workplace or discrimination.
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: We get a lot of calls um and to your point where you said, cops, we feel like we know the law and we're really good at some things in the law and there's some part, as you referred to, that we're not Help for our listeners to understand what is and is not discrimination, what is and is not harassment, and with all of your experience, so that they understand, my sergeants mean well, it's not harassment or it's not discrimination.
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: Tyler's meeting me every day and it's not, it's not discrimination.
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: I don't think.
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: I'm not sure.
• 17:08
  Speaker 3: No.
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: I feel like it's age discrimination.
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: Sometimes it could be that, and if you're over 40, then I'm barely.
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: I mean.
• 17:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah, there you go.
• 17:15
  Speaker 3: I'm not yet Barely 39.
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: You're all just butt babes.
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: I am almost a decade.
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: Probably am a decade older than you.
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: Almost a decade.
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: Probably am a decade older than you.
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: That just sucks.
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: I'm 51, about to be 52.
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: Are you, you're older than me.
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: Thank you, I'm usually the oldest.
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: Thank you for that.
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: I didn't know you were older than me, so that's good.
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: So okay, demonstration I promise I'm a lawyer.
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: Discrimination or harassment, discrimination is not.
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: My boss is a jerk.
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: You made a mistake and you got written up for it.
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: I mean, so did I?
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: I got legit, I made mistakes and I got written up for it.
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: That's not discrimination.
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: However, discrimination comes in when you are being written up significantly more than other people For similar conduct.
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: What For similar conduct?
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: What For similar conduct Correct?
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: And that's what it's called disparate treatment.
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: That's a term of art.
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: I use it all the time.
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: If I'm drafting something for you, I will put that this person received quote-unquote disparate treatment and I will outline how that happened.
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: Now, sometimes it's explicit it could be as bad as have sex with me, or you'll never get promoted.
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: Or a chief asking a female about her sex life with her husband, which you should never do.
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: Also, that chief shouldn't have recorded the conversation and then put it in her employee file.
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: Thank you very much, chief, but but there's the non explicit versions of it, which is are yes, did you make a mistake?
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: But I'll tell people all the time.
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: I'll be in a room full of people.
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: Raise your hand if you've never made a mistake.
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: However, your mistakes can't be more significant than others.
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: If you made a mistake for handling a weapon without gloves on, of course that violates a policy.
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: You've potentially tampered with evidence or messed up the evidence.
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: With evidence or mess up the evidence, but if you're written up for it and demoted for it and moved from day shift to night shift and taken away an extra title, that now you make less money, but a coworker does the same thing, and that person, nothing is said to that person.
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: That's when it becomes discrimination, the harassment again.
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: It becomes disparate treatment.
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: Are you being treated differently than for some reason?
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: And it has to be a federally protected or state protected defined reason, meaning gender, age, religion, injured status, something like that, and that's.
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: You can look it up, you can Google it and you can find if it's for, if you think it's for this reason, you better show it's disparate treatment or you better have an explicit statement or action that you can say this and then that this and then that it's not.
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: And I experienced it too.
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: It is not a sergeant that you just can't stand or a sergeant who just some people just don't get along.
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: I say all the time you can be fired for any reason or no reason.
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: They can fire you because they don't like your watch, or no reason.
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: They can fire you because they don't like your watch.
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: I don't like you, you just get on my nerves.
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: But it can't be because you're a girl or because you're black or because you're, you know, because you got hurt and now you're on injured status and I don't like that and now I'm going to retaliate against you.
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: So there's lots.
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: I can go on and on with examples, but it can't be for one of those statutorily defined reasons.
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: But just being a jerk is not bad.
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: Getting passed over for a promotion is not bad.
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: I mean it could be, depending on the facts.
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: But I mean my sergeant and I did not get along, but that's not made my issue the problem.
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and to spare your treatment for our listeners, if Bridget has a negligent discharge and gets a verbal counseling and a month later Tyler has a negligent discharge and gets a verbal counseling, and a month later Tyler has a negligent discharge and gets a verbal counseling, and then I have a negligent discharge and get six days off without pay, right, I'm getting treated a little bit different than they are for some reason.
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: And when you look at the facts maybe I've had two prior negligent discharges Well, there you have the six days off.
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: But you look at all things and all facts are the same.
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: We've never had one before.
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: We have no discipline history.
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: Something doesn't smell right, something isn't correct there.
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I also like to tell people a lot too that this is not always male against female, it's not always black versus white.
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: I have a case a girl and I advise on cases outside of Texas, because this is based on federal law and a girl outside of Texas was discriminated against because she's a female by a female sergeant who would blatantly say I don't want to work with women, women shouldn't be in this job, I don't want you on my shift, I don't want any females.
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: Also, she kept saying you're way too young for this, you should never have been given this job.
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: And in her state you can have age discrimination under the age of 40.
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: In Texas you can't.
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: But so you know, know your state and you know, if anybody ever has any questions about that, I'd be happy to direct you in the right place if you're outside Texas.
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: But um, or you can Google it.
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: But um, my point being it's not always what you think.
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: Well, but it's just for women against?
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: No, it's not.
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: I have the majority of my clients are men that in the law enforcement world, women still are by far the minority, so there are still more men dealing with these problems than females.
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: And of course, I have a lot of female clients because they know I get their situation, but it's not exclusive to women at all.
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: And would you say harassment, and the only thing I can compare it to.
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: I used to work stalking cases people call and go.
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: Well, my husband drove by my job, so you need to file stalking and I'm like driving by one time probably is not going to rise to the level.
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: Is harassment something similar?
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: Can there be one single incident, or do you need to show at least some minimal pattern of behavior that constitutes sexual harassment?
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: In the legal context.
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: You either have the explicit example, which could be one thing or you have the circumstantial evidence case you have to put together, which I think everybody in this context and is listening probably understands circumstantial evidence.
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: So you either have to build the picture by multiple events or you can have the one statement, like the chief who asked the female about if she's still having sex with her husband.
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: That that one's pretty explicit.
• 23:14
  Speaker 3: But is every civil case need to be punitive?
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: No, in fact that's a good question, especially in somewhere like Texas.
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: You don't get punitives.
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: The government I didn't think it was a great question, but anyway.
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: So Thank you.
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: I'm not aware of any states that do allow punitive damage.
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: I'm sorry, katie, it could be maybe somewhere like California and I know you just had a guest on.
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: He's from California and I'm just going to ding, I'm just kidding, but certain states can have a.
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: There's the public policy, and I believe in the public policy against punitives against the government, because that's taxpayer dollars and we all know there's not enough of that to go around already.
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: So then why would you want to give away even more of it?
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: And even if they're paying into a risk pool most, you know most agencies pay into whatever their insurance plan is.
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: Sometimes it's called a risk pool or whatever.
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: Ultimately it's insurance to cover for their liabilities.
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: They don't cover things like punitives anyway, but in general you can't get punitives but you could still get compensatory damages.
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: Compensatory meaning money damages.
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: But I that's also something I talk to people about a lot.
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: I think a lot in general with law enforcement is the majority of people who come to me or probably even reach out to you, they don't necessarily, they probably don't want to sue, they just want the problem to stop.
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: Like if I would have called you guys, I would have said I just want to be a SWAT operator.
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: I just want to be an investigator, like tell them, just leave me, make them stop.
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: Let me just do my job and be respected as an operator, respected as an investigator, and it's just that's what you want.
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: So a lot of times there's so many things you can ask for that have nothing to do with or getting all the way to a lawsuit and getting money, and in most cases, especially in general in Texas, you're going to file a lawsuit if you want money from somebody.
• 24:53
  Speaker 3: I think it's a good point.
• 24:54
  Speaker 3: We're going to jump on it quick and I'm going to try to tackle it myself.
• 24:56
  Speaker 3: Feel free to jump in, but that's one great point that she was talking about.
• 25:01
  Speaker 3: The pun punitive aspect is that let's say that I'm I am disciplined, or a situation at work where I am transferred.
• 25:11
  Speaker 3: We get a lot of transfer calls.
• 25:12
  Speaker 3: I have been transferred from days to nights.
• 25:14
  Speaker 3: I've been transferred out of CID to patrol and it's not equal treatment.
• 25:20
  Speaker 3: Just like we talked about Um, one of the number one questions that we asked said member, said caller, is have you had loss of wages?
• 25:29
  Speaker 3: Has there been any loss on your side of it?
• 25:32
  Speaker 3: That's what our general counsel has kind of directed us to ask and nine times out of ten there's not.
• 25:36
  Speaker 3: I mean because they're still making the same wage.
• 25:38
  Speaker 3: What do you say to the listener out there that's on night shift receiving a increase?
• 25:46
  Speaker 3: Some departments have this where they get a bonus for being on nights, they get an extra stipend for being on nights and they get transferred to day shift and it's not that equal treatment.
• 25:55
  Speaker 3: Could that be considered the punitive damage under like a civil case, depending on like a discriminatory lawsuit?
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: I would say that, reframe that just a bit to say that is it's.
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: I would never want to frame it punitive in the sense that is the department trying to punish them in some way or make an example of them or just do it, or is it discriminatory or retaliatory in some way, in that, that being the reason why they are they moving you and as punishment, that being the punitive part and knowing that that you're going to lose money from it?
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: Could that be a piece of a case that I would get involved in an employment perspective, that being the punitive part and knowing that you're going to lose money from it?
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: Could that be a piece of a case that I would get involved in an employment perspective?
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: Yes, but again, it's really the typical lawyer answer would be well, it depends, because it depends on the facts of your situation.
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: Like you say, if we all get a letter, an LOR, a letter of reprimand in our file or whatever you call it, at your department or performance plan or whatever, and all facts being equal, and we all have, you know, didn't happen to you, didn't happen to you or didn't have me, or it happened to Clinton, you and I, then what?
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: Why did it only happen to him?
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: And is it, you know?
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: Is it a racially motivated thing?
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: Is it a gender motivated thing?
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: Is it a religion motivated thing?
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: That could be a factor that you could use.
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: And also, I do ask that question.
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: A lot too is.
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: But have you lost any money from this?
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: You know, I always one of the very first questions I ask people is what do you, what?
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: How?
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: You want me to help?
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: What is it you're wanting to get out of this?
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: Because if you're coming to me saying I want the chief fired, I think they owe me $2 million because I didn't get this promotion.
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: If I would have had the promotion, I would have made it to Sergeant.
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: I would have made it to Sergeant, I would have made it Lieutenant, and that's just how much salary I would have gotten.
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: I'm like, look, that is so speculative, you wouldn't.
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: Even if you won at trial, you probably wouldn't win on those points, and so it's just very there's two things.
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: Is you know, it's very fact, specific.
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: And also you have to know what is it you're wanting out of this.
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: Are you just wanting back on nights and you want the money, are you?
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: I mean, there's so I have even this chart that I will share with people.
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: It's like here's all the different things you could ask for.
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: Do you think somebody should be extra training?
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: Do you think that somebody else should get punished, with, you know, lor in their file, or dinged or demoted?
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: I mean, there's all kinds of stuff you can ask for.
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: What is happening with you?
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: Can I prove either that you have an explicit or pattern of behavior that show that you're being treated unfairly and you shouldn't have been?
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: And if it has something to do with money, then yes, that helps your case.
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: If you're like, you did this on purpose, and I have a lot of cases like that, where I have a female in El Paso where she was demoted and it's a six-figure difference up until now, and we're just trying to get her position back.
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: But while they're ignoring us, the damages are growing.
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's a six-figure difference up until now and we're just trying to get her position back, but while they're ignoring us, the damages are growing because she's lost six figures in income, so that all can matter and it also just depends on well, it just depends.
• 28:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: Sidetrack EEOC complaint.
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: You get a lot of people call and they'll go.
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: Hey, I'm ready.
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: I've got a great, great case.
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: I'm so ready I'm going to win big Cause.
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: I just got to write a suit, oh, my gosh.
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: I would tell you this I turn away cases If they come to me with their right to sue letter, for many reasons.
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: One you probably made a crap claim to start with because you think you said enough.
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: You probably didn't.
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: As you guys know, any lawyer knows, once you become somebody's attorney, it's hard to not be their attorney.
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: I have a fiduciary duty to take care of them.
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: I can't just say no, I don't really like you anymore, I quit.
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: I can't, just because I can't just leave them hanging.
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: And so if you're saying you have a right to sue letter, which means we're going to court and once I file a lawsuit for you, I really almost can't.
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: I mean, you could fire me, but it would be very difficult for me to get out of that case.
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: Draws counsel Right, it's difficult.
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: It's difficult because then you have to find someone else to take the case.
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: Most attorneys don't want to get involved in a case that's already been filed because it could be messy and I don't want to step in somebody else's malpractice dump.
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: But so if you come to me with a right to sue letter, I mean I'm still going to have to start from scratch and you probably didn't say everything you needed to say to start, and have you even tried to negotiate with your department.
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: And once you get this right to sue letter, you have 90 days to file a lawsuit, and that doesn't leave much time to like.
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: What do you need to do?
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: What do you want to ask for?
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: Can we negotiate with the agency?
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: Um cause?
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: Once you file a lawsuit and I tell people this all the time you need to understand that it is not easy to sue the government.
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: They have lots of tools in their belt that can delay it either forever, get it dismissed, um and you.
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: You are not going to be able to afford that lawsuit because most attorneys will not take a case like this on a contingency fee basis.
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: I do not work on contingency fee for all the reasons I just said.
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: I talked to an attorney of the Dallas area who did win a case against a police department, but it took seven years and he has said he will not do it anymore, that because of that seven years he's funding it that whole time and it's gambling.
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: He's taking a gamble that he will get paid on it someday.
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: And most attorneys can't afford to fund a case for that long Because it takes their time that they can't devote to something else.
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: We all need to put money in the bank.
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: So I tell people be very sure that you want to actually sue.
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: But that's why I always say there's so many, so many things you can do before that have nothing to do with a lawsuit.
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: Let's start to have a conversation.
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: Let's say here's all the things we think you did wrong, agency, but let's come to the table and talk about it and see where we can.
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: Maybe if, even if you do want money, let's.
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: Let's see how much money you want, some things, and see if we can make some headway and if not, maybe you do need to file a lawsuit.
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: But you hear about.
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: Well, I saw this so-and-so, especially recently.
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: I know that girl that just recently got $500,000 from her department.
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: Well, first of all, what state was it in?
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: Second, I don't know any of those facts.
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: I mean, there might've been some really bad facts against the department if they were willing to say, pay $500,000.
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: And the fact that everybody knows so quickly that that's how much she got paid and that wasn't part of the non-disclosure agreement, um.
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: So I just hate when people say, oh, I know that girl got $500,000.
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: I think I can get that too, like, um, you probably can't, but a lot of it is.
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: I'm being Debbie Downer for people.
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: Um, and yet I still refuse to believe to be a Debbie Downer all the time, because I still think you can get something, because I think really what you want is you want to do your job, you want them to leave you alone, you want to just be able to, you know, just just perform and and and help your community.
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: For all the reasons you became a cop in the first place and it's just not always going to result in money.
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: Well, and I don't.
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: I don't giving people realistic expectations, because the question I was going to ask is I feel like right to sue people misunderstand that letter because it feels like everybody gets one, so it's not like it's this highly coveted, scrutinized letter that means you have the golden egg all that means is they looked at the statement you gave them.
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: They didn't investigate it at all and they think this might be enough.
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: Get out of my office.
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: They are so overworked and I know at least in Texas they're trying.
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: Really, every division of the EEOC is run differently.
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: Somebody's running it differently, like the Houston office, for example.
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: They have a former military guy and he's running it trying to right the ship.
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: Trying to right the ship, trying to fit as efficiently as possible.
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: To tell you, if they think you have a claim but the EEOC, the way it can go is you file your claim, they look at it and they see the facts and they either are going to.
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: Well, three things can happen.
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: You have nothing, it's completely dismissed.
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: We think you have something, but here's your right to sue letter.
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: You go do it with your time and resources yeah, we have 50.1% short.
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: They're not even going to say that, or they'll say oh my gosh, this is so bad.
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: We're going to sue for you.
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: We're going to sue these people, we'll take care of it.
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: I have never seen one.
• 33:39
  Speaker 3: My wife did Really.
• 33:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah, she was pregnant.
• 33:42
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I mean, it happens, let her go.
• 33:45
  Speaker 3: And they did it for her.
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: The EEOC did yeah, wow.
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: But it doesn't happen that often, no.
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: It's the first one I've heard.
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: Right, I thought you knew that.
• 33:55
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I was wondering why you are so rich.
• 33:58
  Speaker 3: Shit we didn't get much.
• 34:00
  Speaker 3: We got a couple months of salary right from the start, because already rightfully so, because she was pregnant.
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: Right, I mean, it's not always like you're winning the lottery.
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: They're just trying to make you whole your compensatory damages.
• 34:10
  Speaker 3: Well, and I stupidly thought that this was a common practice.
• 34:14
  Speaker 3: So when I was referring members over there until I was talking to Clint, clint brought them into an in-service training, and so when they came, I was talking to them one day about the situation and they were like, yeah, that's not how this works, and so I've found out really how minimal that really is.
• 34:30
  Speaker 3: So it kind of shocked me.
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: The right to sue letter.
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: There's been no investigation.
• 34:33
  Speaker 2: It does not mean that you're like super strong facts and a lot of times somebody like I say I'll turn down a lot of those, especially if they're not law enforcement, just because my time and resources are, you know, it's not unlimited and you're still.
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: If you have a right to sue letter.
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: The way I work is you're still going to have to pay me to review it all and see if I still have to review it to see if I think you have a case and it might be.
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: No, I mean so they don't investigate that.
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: You can, even now that they have a new portal for if an attorney files for you that I don't know what it looks like on the plaintiff side I mean the the the complainant side but as attorneys I can.
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: It's all an online form.
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: I can put in all the facts and then right away I can click a little box that says do would you like to skip the whole process and get a right to sue letter?
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: If I click that box that I'll get a letter in two weeks.
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: Wow, I mean in the Houston office.
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: So the Houston-based EEOC office, which they also take care of all of Louisiana.
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: So they still have a lot to take care of.
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: What they're doing is just moving claims out.
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: Moving claims out, they don't want to say that you don't have anything but they didn't look into it.
• 35:37
  Speaker 2: I mean.
• 35:37
  Speaker 2: So you getting a right to sue letter does not mean that the EEOC investigated it and that you're going to win.
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: Okay, trying to think what else Shift gears?
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: again.
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: Yep, let's talk about Brady.
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: Yep Brady Giglio it's ugly, it's ugly, it's bad For our listeners.
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: There's 254 counties in Texas.
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: I think there's a couple of DAs that cover multiple counties, so there's like 246 district attorneys, something like that, and I promise you all 246 district attorneys, something like that, and I promise you all 246 district attorneys are enforcing Brady differently.
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: Yes, because there is zero consistency.
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: Yep, share a little bit about Brady with our listeners.
• 36:20
  Speaker 2: Okay, so here's your law school class in 30 seconds.
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: Awesome, just kidding.
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: Brady and Giglio are two.
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: You guys may know this, so this is for anybody who doesn't know.
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: Brady and Giglio are two US Supreme Court cases that mostly and partly define a criminal defendant's rights in trial.
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: So obviously we do not want somebody going to prison.
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: That shouldn't be there.
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: I believe in that.
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: I'm a super dork when it comes to I believe in constitutional law.
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: I believe in our separation of executive, legislative, judicial branches of our government.
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: I believe in it completely.
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: Is it perfect?
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: No, but this one defines the rights of a criminal defendant.
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: If the prosecution knows of evidence that could help a defendant defend themselves and not go to prison, they have to turn it over.
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: It's also called exculpatory evidence.
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: That could include evidence that the cop who investigated the claim did something wrong, violated policy, broke chain of command, tainted evidence, blah, blah, blah.
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: Unfortunately, that's a federal case law.
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: It's interpreted state by state, county by county, city by city, chief by chief, sheriff by sheriff, da by DA, prosecutor by prosecutor.
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: Even federal prosecution offices don't have the same rules, office by office.
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: Sometimes it's called a Giglio list, sometimes it's called Brady.
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: Let's just say Brady, giglio to make it simple, but the point being, like you said, there's no uniform way in which Brady Giglio is applied, defined, taught or educated.
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: I would say the majority of and I have officers call me across the country because I try and help, but the way that I try and help is well, I look at.
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: Was this used as like an employment-related violation?
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: Was it harassment, discrimination, retaliation?
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: Sometimes it's a politically motivated thing.
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah.
• 38:16
  Speaker 2: And that I try to help officers who are on the Brady list.
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: Look at it, brady Giglio list, look at it from a public relations perspective and I try and help them figure out.
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: Who else can we talk to to try and educate the people involved about why this person shouldn't be on the list called DAs, and this is a sad part about it.
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: You say there's multiple ways they they can get on the list but ultimately it's a DA who has to, or prosecutor I'll just say DA to make it faster who will decide that you are not somehow not trustworthy and put you on a quote unquote list.
• 38:47
  Speaker 2: Sometimes it's a database, sometimes it's something they keep internally, sometimes it's a letter that they send out to every defense attorney in the jurisdiction saying we will not be calling this person anymore because they think this person's a liar.
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: Your chief or sheriff then says well, you can't do your job if you can't testify, so you're fired, brady's attached to you forever and you can never get a job again in law enforcement.
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: So you're fired, brady's attached to you forever and you can never get a job again in law enforcement.
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: Sadly, there are chiefs who decide well, you know what you just did was Brady, I'm going to send the letter to the DA.
• 39:17
  Speaker 2: The DA looks at it and says, ok, then I mean I'm not a chief of police, it might be a little bit intimidated by the chief of police and say, well, if he said he or she says so, okay, then I'll just put them on the list.
• 39:30
  Speaker 2: I'll call them and say, well, hey, can we talk about why you put this person on the list?
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: They'll say, well, you got to talk to the chief because the chief said I should.
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: No, the chief's the one that said I should do this.
• 39:36
  Speaker 2: I'll call the chief and if they'll talk to me they'll say, well, the DA's the one that put them.
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: And ultimately, everybody around the country should have a brady giglio class where they learn what it is and what it's not.
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: It's not a mistake on your application where you've something that you did 25 years ago which shouldn't even count anyway because of the time frame.
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: Like you, I was wrong about that award I got in junior high that I put on my application.
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: I know somebody who's been braided for that.
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: That's not the same thing as lying intentionally about to get a search warrant to get into somebody's house, which happened in Houston not so long ago.
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: That is what Brady is for.
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: Credibility, and integrity and honesty is what it's supposed to be tied to, not that one time you wrecked a car Right, okay, well, that doesn't make the officer any less credible or his veracity.
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: You know there's no challenge to the veracity.
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: But the unique part about Brady?
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: Two things One, it's weaponized.
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: Frequently it's used as a weapon.
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: But the the the damn horrible, freaking side of it is if I get in trouble I can go to T Cole and challenge T Cole to keep my license.
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: I file a complaint on you.
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: With a bar, you have a right to be heard in in in some sort of due process to defend yourself and to fight for your bar Once you're on.
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: Brady there is absolutely no recourse whatsoever.
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: The medical field has it, the law field has it, everyone has it.
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: But once somebody is deemed by God you're a non-disclosure.
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: You're Brady, and probably 70% of chiefs it's an immediate death penalty for your career.
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: We have a few chiefs that are like screw them, that's crazy.
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: You can go hide over here and work these cases or whatever, but for someone to lose their entire career, their paycheck and have zero recourse, when often it's a weapon because there's a political or a personality issue, it's absurd, it is.
• 41:54
  Speaker 2: You're 100% right.
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: I truly think it's a 14th Amendment violation of the US Constitution and if I had all the time and money and resources in the world, I would put a team of people together to start arguing this, but it would have to be argued everywhere.
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 42:08
  Speaker 2: Um, that there's no.
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: You don't have to be noticed, notified that you're put on the list you get.
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: There's no.
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: There's no right to appeal it.
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: We'll get a phone call to members like um, just found out, I've been on they, because that's not all.
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: they don't always publicize the letter, depending on, like you said, in the state, as you know there was, they tried to make bring some legislation forward in Texas, I think, last year on the issue.
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: And not only do you get a lot of pushback from different factions, but the problem is, let's say, you get a law that states they exist in some states, not very many, I think I'm aware of two ohio and one other, I think uh there's two or three, not many it might be indiana, I can't remember, but they have a law.
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: But it's basically about notice and appeal.
• 42:59
  Speaker 2: So you're supposed to get notice that you're on it and a right to appeal or to clear your name, however there are.
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: There's no teeth to it, there's no.
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: But what happens if you prove you never should have been on the list in the first place?
• 43:11
  Speaker 2: Who gets in trouble?
• 43:11
  Speaker 2: What are the consequences for those people?
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: You're never going to get the prosecutor or DA's association to agree to say, oh yeah, we agree to be punished if we do this wrong.
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: No plus, you cannot sue, you can file a complaint against the prosecutor that they have prosecutorial immunity which is almost stronger than qualified immunity.
• 43:28
  Speaker 2: Wow, you cannot overcome prosecutorial.
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: It's almost impossible not impossible, but close to impossible to overcoming prosecutorial immunity.
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: And so that's what I say, is I look at it and say, okay, well, what could we do to try and convince people Like, should they?
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: Okay, at least review it and see if the person shouldn't be on there?
• 43:46
  Speaker 2: Some, some DAs, won't even do that.
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: Some do.
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: There's somebody out of Washington that the office where he was braided out of once a month there's one.
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: They review it and he was made it.
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: He managed to get his name off the list.
• 43:56
  Speaker 2: Sadly it's still in the file.
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: So it's gonna, you know, as for law enforcement and I think rightly so you shouldn't be able to easily take things out of law enforcement officers files.
• 44:05
  Speaker 2: But once it's there, it's there.
• 44:08
  Speaker 2: Just one little word we have another guy out of Utah and they had one word, the word Brady's in there one time and he, after a year he did just finally get another job, huge pay cut really small, whatever.
• 44:21
  Speaker 2: But also he was on my watch list.
• 44:24
  Speaker 2: He's not even my client.
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: I had tried to help him for a little while, but I had no money, Taking all his retirement out, about to lose his wife, about to lose his home, I literally thought he was on my suicide watch list the last time I heard from him.
• 44:38
  Speaker 2: It worried me so bad.
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: He's not even my client, but I'm calling him regularly or I'm texting him.
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: He sent me an email last week telling me he got a job and I was like, dude, I was about to start like harassing, calling you it just because I was so worried that he was going down that slippery, dark path it's scary times.
• 44:54
  Speaker 3: I mean you're taking, you're taking food off our table for no reason.
• 44:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, for a political and there's nothing and you feel like there's nothing you can do about it.
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: No, I do try and help.
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: Like I said, more from like a pr perspective than a legal, because you can't sue anybody for it.
• 45:06
  Speaker 2: Some people have sued.
• 45:07
  Speaker 2: There's a great series of articles about it, by Val Van Brocklin for Police One.
• 45:12
  Speaker 2: She's an attorney who's written a lot about it.
• 45:14
  Speaker 2: She just refers a lot of people to me.
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: She's out of Alaska.
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: We should go visit her and do a podcast.
• 45:21
  Speaker 2: We should in Alaska in the summer.
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: Absolutely.
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: I've got polar bears, I'm good.
• 45:30
  Speaker 2: Let's schedule that.
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: Yes, but it's not 118 in Alaska in the summer.
• 45:34
  Speaker 2: But some people sued for it and were able to prove that it was a 100% political motivation.
• 45:37
  Speaker 2: Somebody ran against somebody and they lost and as soon as the bad guy won he did something and got the loser on the Brady list and he was able to prove it.
• 45:45
  Speaker 2: He got a good settlement, I guess, basically loss of salary.
• 45:48
  Speaker 2: But that's not common.
• 45:50
  Speaker 2: You know, it's always hard, hard to prove that somebody uses it for political purposes and it happens all the time.
• 45:55
  Speaker 3: Well, and speaking of civil cases or cases like that of like appeals, look at the hospital 17 with our ODA bill and how that's going to play out.
• 46:03
  Speaker 3: We don't know what ramifications or how much teeth that really has.
• 46:07
  Speaker 3: It's kind of interesting times right now with these attorneys.
• 46:11
  Speaker 3: Clearly there's a problem in Texas.
• 46:12
  Speaker 3: We probably had more Bills pertaining to DA conduct filed last session than any other session prior that I can think of.
• 46:22
  Speaker 3: Yep, agreed Yep, and so there's an issue.
• 46:25
  Speaker 3: So hopefully we can get it corrected.
• 46:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 46:28
  Speaker 3: Maybe we'll call you down and you can come testify.
• 46:29
  Speaker 2: I would love to.
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: And on the Brady issue, we're certainly not saying bad, dirty lying cops shouldn't be held accountable A hundred percent, shouldn't be held accountable 100%.
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: But for any tool that can end somebody's be a death penalty for somebody's career, there should be due process tied to it oh 100%.
• 46:47
  Speaker 3: We had a member that got put on Brady for calling in sick and going to a sports game and being seen on the sports game.
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: Oh, like on the jumbo train.
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: That's just not.
• 46:58
  Speaker 1: That has nothing to do with their criminal defendantsbo truck.
• 46:59
  Speaker 3: That's just not that's not.
• 47:00
  Speaker 2: That has nothing to do with a criminal defendant.
• 47:02
  Speaker 3: That's right.
• 47:04
  Speaker 2: That's right.
• 47:04
  Speaker 2: Should you be counseled?
• 47:05
  Speaker 2: If you have, and then if you start to have a long history of lying and and not being where you're supposed to be?
• 47:10
  Speaker 2: Of course that could be different, but one time no, that is not Brady.
• 47:21
  Speaker 3: There's nothing to do with a specific case for a specific defendant in that specific instance and it goes back to Clint saying that weaponizing for a political situation.
• 47:24
  Speaker 3: It's just bad.
• 47:25
  Speaker 3: It was in Harris County, kim Aug.
• 47:29
  Speaker 2: Really.
• 47:30
  Speaker 3: Kim Aug's office.
• 47:31
  Speaker 3: I don't want to say anything because I don't want to endorse anybody, right, but there's an election coming up in November.
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: There is yes, I heard you guys had a um an opponent on the podcast recently.
• 47:46
  Speaker 3: A candidate?
• 47:46
  Speaker 3: Yeah, a candidate.
• 47:47
  Speaker 3: Yes, we didn't have a candidate.
• 47:48
  Speaker 2: I'm just joking.
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: I listened to it this morning.
• 47:50
  Speaker 3: It was great.
• 47:50
  Speaker 3: It was great.
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: I thought it was a great interview.
• 47:52
  Speaker 2: I did like it, it was very so we appreciate that.
• 47:57
  Speaker 2: Maybe a little bit less skeptical of what we'll probably do.
• 48:01
  Speaker 3: That's exactly what having a conversation will do Right.
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: I think she meant of us, less skeptical of us.
• 48:06
  Speaker 3: Oh, okay, good, that happens too.
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: What did we not cover?
• 48:12
  Speaker 2: I mean, I think we covered it all we covered it all.
• 48:16
  Speaker 2: This is what I like people to know about me is I want you to stay on the job.
• 48:22
  Speaker 2: We all know that there's probably not a single department in this country that's fully staffed, and for many reasons, it could be political, it could be budgetary, definitely highly swayed by the political crap that's been going on for way too many years now, which, like you guys have said in a podcast like this, should have nothing to do with politics and yet too often it is affected by politics.
• 48:47
  Speaker 2: But I want to be able to do my part to be able to help you, because when I tell the time, you can't change what law enforcement is.
• 48:52
  Speaker 2: It's dirty, it's ugly.
• 48:55
  Speaker 2: You see mean, you see violence, you see death.
• 48:59
  Speaker 2: You see filth.
• 48:59
  Speaker 2: You see all the things I mean.
• 49:00
  Speaker 2: You've seen violence, you see death.
• 49:01
  Speaker 2: You see filth.
• 49:01
  Speaker 2: You see all the things I mean.
• 49:01
  Speaker 2: I've walked out of house.
• 49:01
  Speaker 2: We could all tell stories, but one that's popping into my head right now is walking in when we're doing a narcotics investigation.
• 49:05
  Speaker 2: I walk out and I'm just covered in fleas.
• 49:07
  Speaker 2: That's a silly example, but I'll never forget, or all the maggots that I had to dig through when we were in the narcotics unit piece.
• 49:19
  Speaker 2: Obviously, it can be heinous and mean, and the death and all that Um, but you can't change that.
• 49:24
  Speaker 2: It's what law enforcement is.
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: If that's what you're struggling with with law enforcement and you're trying to blame it on a Sergeant, like no, then you need to evaluate your career choice.
• 49:32
  Speaker 2: But you shouldn't have to face you're okay because of all the hard things that you face in the job.
• 49:43
  Speaker 2: It's not fair that you face things inside your own department.
• 49:46
  Speaker 2: It happens all the time, everywhere, and so, while I do recommend highly that, I think everybody should have a strong wellness routine and all that, and I don't want to sound all hippy dippy about it, but take care of yourself.
• 49:56
  Speaker 2: But this is the way that I can help you.
• 50:00
  Speaker 2: I help with your legal problems because I want you to be okay, I want you to stay on the job.
• 50:05
  Speaker 2: But you can't just ignore it, just like you can't ignore the mental toll that it will take on you not if but will, then you can't ignore your anger management issues because of the mental toll.
• 50:18
  Speaker 2: This is any more than you can ignore.
• 50:20
  Speaker 2: I'll just ignore this, this problem having at work cause it'll go away.
• 50:23
  Speaker 2: No, it won't.
• 50:23
  Speaker 2: They won't fix what you're not telling them they should fix.
• 50:27
  Speaker 2: I'm not saying it'll always be fixed, but you at least should tell them something needs to be fixed because it will wear on you.
• 50:33
  Speaker 2: I've met so many I mean just career professionals, first responders, career professionals, first responders, firefighters, law enforcement that call me in tears because they're 20, 25, 30 plus years in and they feel like that, because of how they're being treated, their department, that they feel like they don't matter.
• 50:47
  Speaker 2: Well, I don't want that to mean in life.
• 50:51
  Speaker 2: Like, and I think and I've talked with people who have committed suicide, I haven't talked to anyone that committed suicide.
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 50:58
  Speaker 2: But I know people who have that near.
• 51:00
  Speaker 2: Or have attempted and it starts like it's the straw that breaks the camel's back is like the how they feel their department is treating them and the harassment, discrimination, retaliation, whatever that's happening in the department.
• 51:09
  Speaker 2: You can do something about that and don't just take it.
• 51:13
  Speaker 2: That's what I just that.
• 51:14
  Speaker 2: That's why I'll I'll step off my soapbox now, but that's my point of doing.
• 51:17
  Speaker 2: What I do is I just want you to know do something for yourself.
• 51:20
  Speaker 2: You can take control of this.
• 51:22
  Speaker 2: It might get worse before it gets better, but do something and get help.
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: Well, you said you don't want to get all hippy dippy, but we're in Austin, so it's okay.
• 51:30
  Speaker 2: if you want to be hippy dippy, oh yeah, we can just cross legs and have some incense and then start some meditation, breathing.
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: And.
• 51:37
  Speaker 2: I do believe strongly in meditation, breathing.
• 51:38
  Speaker 2: I also really believe strongly in yoga.
• 51:40
  Speaker 2: Everybody should do yoga.
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: I'm a firm believer in countdowns.
• 51:46
  Speaker 1: I think you call them where you go, find somewhere and lay down and it talks you through a countdown just for 10 minutes.
• 51:53
  Speaker 1: It's some calm, soothing, sexy voice.
• 51:57
  Speaker 2: It sets your mind elsewhere.
• 51:58
  Speaker 2: I never thought I would be hippy-dippy, because I'm more kind of get up and elsewhere.
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's really.
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: I never thought I would be hippy dippy because I'm more kind of redneckish.
• 52:04
  Speaker 3: We're kind of redneckish yeah but, like a 10 minute countdown.
• 52:08
  Speaker 3: I really like that you just go lay down and like how does that well?
• 52:12
  Speaker 1: you can google like youtube okay uh, 10 minute meditation or 10 minute countdown or 15 minute countdown?
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: like when your day goes to shit right in the middle of the day, I frigging push back from my desk and fold the laptop down and I'll go get somewhere and sit down or try and lay down and turn it on or put earbuds in.
• 52:31
  Speaker 1: It walks you through.
• 52:32
  Speaker 1: Just slow your breathing down, turn your mind off.
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: It'll be some cool, soothing voice and then it's like 10 or 12 minutes.
• 52:41
  Speaker 1: Usually it just lets you Damn, I need to get that.
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: It lets you reset.
• 52:47
  Speaker 2: A good resource for that is yoga for first responders.
• 52:50
  Speaker 2: They teach yoga specifically with law enforcement, firefighters, first responders in mind.
• 52:54
  Speaker 2: I'm not talking about yoga, but one of the things they do is the breathing exercises.
• 52:58
  Speaker 2: There's science behind why that works.
• 53:06
  Speaker 2: That by intentionally slowing down your breathing, you start to and I'll just tell you you're not asking is that, and I'm not a medical professional, but I am a certified yoga teacher and a certified yoga for first responders instructor that the science behind that is that when you slow down and you start to focus on just your breath and the nerves that you engage from your torso up start to tell your brain.
• 53:24
  Speaker 2: Literally it sends a chemical signal telling your brain, hey, we're okay, and your brain will say, oh, okay then.
• 53:31
  Speaker 2: And then it releases all the good hormones and chemicals and then that signal then travels down where it helps your whole body.
• 53:37
  Speaker 2: So it's a scientific-backed proof that by doing this type of breathing you can calm the F down when you need to and release stress, and then you, then you can recreate, you can actually release trauma and stress just through breathing.
• 53:51
  Speaker 3: I went to yoga one time and I had a bad experience.
• 53:53
  Speaker 3: I, I, I relaxed too much and it fall asleep.
• 53:58
  Speaker 2: No no.
• 53:58
  Speaker 2: And it just didn't go well, I wasn't invited back.
• 54:05
  Speaker 3: I'll leave it at that.
• 54:07
  Speaker 1: Anyway, I'm a little Neanderthal and caveman-ish.
• 54:10
  Speaker 1: The reason I know.
• 54:11
  Speaker 1: I believe what you're saying.
• 54:13
  Speaker 1: I got a physical a year ago and he's like you're borderline blood pressure High blood pressure Borderline.
• 54:19
  Speaker 1: I'm like my thermostat's off, I just run a little hot.
• 54:22
  Speaker 1: I'm good, I don't have high blood pressure.
• 54:25
  Speaker 2: So he had me get a thing, Cuff yeah.
• 54:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and I didn't.
• 54:32
  Speaker 1: I don't want to get on medicine, I just I'm fat and 51.
• 54:35
  Speaker 1: I don't want to be on.
• 54:37
  Speaker 1: I don't want to be on prescriptions.
• 54:38
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 54:39
  Speaker 1: And so I would take my blood pressure and then I would do that 10-minute deal and both numbers would be down like 15 points, 18 points, both numbers in 12 minutes, no BS, damn.
• 54:53
  Speaker 2: I'm telling you, it's scientifically proven that it works and people think it's just breathing.
• 54:58
  Speaker 2: It's so dumb but I even use it as attorneys.
• 55:01
  Speaker 2: On friday the 13th, when I was walking into court in new orleans and it had a huge case that I used to do asbestos litigation and the case is worth millions or a couple million and all the defendants and it's like 20 defendants and me and they're trying to get my expert disqualified.
• 55:18
  Speaker 2: Well, they won, they got my expert, we.
• 55:20
  Speaker 2: We took it to the Louisiana Supreme Court and they overturned it.
• 55:23
  Speaker 2: But that morning I knew what I was up against and I thought I was going to throw up.
• 55:27
  Speaker 2: I was so nervous.
• 55:28
  Speaker 2: But I did that like in the cab riding to the courthouse, I just was like close my eyes, I just have to breathe through this Because otherwise I was going to walk in, not be able to speak.
• 55:36
  Speaker 2: So for many reasons whether you just had a critical incident and you need to breathe, whether somebody was yelling in your face and you need to calm down I mean, it works with so many your wife's having a menopause attack and she seems like she's going nuts and you need to walk away and calm down.
• 55:52
  Speaker 3: before you react to it, I need to have the breathing exercise.
• 55:54
  Speaker 3: I need to download this app.
• 55:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 55:56
  Speaker 1: I think a bunch of tier one folks are really getting into it too.
• 55:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they probably need to Get into a high-speed deal and get your focus and the breathing back in.
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: It's cool, man, I'm dead serious.
• 56:07
  Speaker 1: I'm more Neanderthal than hippy-dippy, but I'm a believer in that I like the hippy-dippy.
• 56:11
  Speaker 3: I'm going to steal that.
• 56:12
  Speaker 2: You can use it.
• 56:13
  Speaker 2: Thank you For free.
• 56:25
  Speaker 3: I get the whole aaron brockovich feel I watched that yesterday morning.
• 56:27
  Speaker 1: Oh really, I did love the show.
• 56:27
  Speaker 1: Sorry, it's a show, not a movie.
• 56:28
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's the movie, it's a movie.
• 56:28
  Speaker 3: Well okay, I'm from east texas, everything's a show to us.
• 56:29
  Speaker 3: Oh, okay, that's a good show, that's a good program.
• 56:31
  Speaker 3: Sorry, well, is there anything else we didn't cover?
• 56:32
  Speaker 3: I don't think so.
• 56:33
  Speaker 3: I think we got everything rapid fire rapid fire.
• 56:36
  Speaker 3: You do it because I always screw it up.
• 56:37
  Speaker 3: I went backwards last time.
• 56:39
  Speaker 1: All right, favorite drink of choice, favorite cop movie or line from a cop movie and favorite cop car oh, I can answer two of the three.
• 56:51
  Speaker 2: Well, I guess three Favorite drink.
• 56:54
  Speaker 2: Drink of choice when you're going to relax, alcohol or non-alcohol, whenever you're going to have wine on the weekend.
• 56:59
  Speaker 1: what's your breathings when your breathing's down?
• 57:01
  Speaker 2: I don't drink liquor Like I can do margaritas, but as I age I can't drink as much sugary drinks, so I don't do that many margaritas anymore.
• 57:09
  Speaker 1: What's your go-to?
• 57:10
  Speaker 1: You need to chill and be hippy-dippy.
• 57:12
  Speaker 1: With what?
• 57:13
  Speaker 2: Wine or beer.
• 57:15
  Speaker 1: You said red or white and dry.
• 57:17
  Speaker 1: What's your favorite one?
• 57:18
  Speaker 2: Yes, is the answer to that.
• 57:20
  Speaker 2: What's your favorite?
• 57:24
  Speaker 2: One Bubbles, pinot Noir or like a Sauvignon Blanc.
• 57:27
  Speaker 2: Summertime, a rosé or a Sauvignon Blanc, but before bed I like to have a glass of red wine.
• 57:32
  Speaker 2: Most nights.
• 57:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm not opposed it's got antioxidants.
• 57:36
  Speaker 1: It's healthy, I agree 100%.
• 57:40
  Speaker 2: Second question was the favorite cop movie?
• 57:42
  Speaker 2: I'm going to say I joke around.
• 57:43
  Speaker 2: People say what made you become a cop?
• 57:44
  Speaker 2: I say, well, I watched GI Jane and I thought that was cool, don't?
• 57:51
  Speaker 3: worry, will Smith's not around.
• 57:52
  Speaker 2: Well, GI Jane, with Demi Moore, I thought, well, she can do one-arm push-ups, I can too.
• 57:57
  Speaker 2: And then I said I'll just shave my head like she did.
• 58:01
  Speaker 2: I didn't shave my head, and I always say no disrespect to all the Navy SEALs out there, Cause obviously I'm not trying to.
• 58:05
  Speaker 2: But anyway and this is dating me when that movie came out, you women couldn't have tried out for the Navy.
• 58:13
  Speaker 2: SEALs.
• 58:13
  Speaker 2: It was against the, it wasn't allowed.
• 58:15
  Speaker 2: You can not saying I would do that I could also have a lot of opinions on.
• 58:19
  Speaker 2: Well, I think, the women, women in those roles having been a female on SWAT team I could have.
• 58:28
  Speaker 2: We could have a long discussion about what that is, yeah, cause I came out of it thinking I don't think women should be on SWAT, I don't think women should be on the front line.
• 58:37
  Speaker 2: I just think that it's just not possible.
• 58:40
  Speaker 2: It's just apples and oranges.
• 58:40
  Speaker 2: Men and women are just different.
• 58:41
  Speaker 2: Now I can say that do I think it's right that you should be excluded just because you're female, but I just think that anybody who wants to be in one of those roles needs to go in that with eyes wide open.
• 58:51
  Speaker 1: Period.
• 58:52
  Speaker 1: I can see that.
• 58:52
  Speaker 2: Because it's just different.
• 58:54
  Speaker 2: It's not better or worse.
• 58:56
  Speaker 2: I think women can have strong roles in all of that and, having lived it, I can say just know what you're getting yourself into.
• 59:04
  Speaker 2: I also don't think men should be overly stupid and you have a female in there, Like some of my counterparts.
• 59:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we're overly stupid sometimes.
• 59:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and the third one is favorite cop car.
• 59:17
  Speaker 2: I had an LTD.
• 59:19
  Speaker 2: Ford, ltd, ford LTD.
• 59:22
  Speaker 1: Ford LTD.
• 59:23
  Speaker 1: Is that almost a Crown Vic?
• 59:24
  Speaker 1: It is almost a Crown Vic, it is almost a Crown Vic yeah.
• 59:27
  Speaker 1: It was the boxy square one.
• 59:31
  Speaker 2: Well, mine was almost like a bubble.
• 59:32
  Speaker 2: I was a cop a long time ago and mine was more of a bubble.
• 59:36
  Speaker 2: And then I ended up getting the Crown Vic, especially when I came out of narcotics back to patrol briefly before I left, I had a Crown Vic.
• 59:43
  Speaker 3: The War Wagon.
• 59:44
  Speaker 2: Is there a better one?
• 59:45
  Speaker 2: Oh, according to Clint there is yes, which is what.
• 59:50
  Speaker 1: He likes the Crown Vic.
• 59:51
  Speaker 1: The best police car ever made was the 94 and 95 Chevrolet Caprice with the Corvette motor.
• 59:56
  Speaker 2: Wow, I definitely did not drive one of those who got to drive one of those.
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 1: Somebody in traffic.
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 1: I did, we had them, it was our fleet.
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 1: They were amazing.
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 1: He only knows Crown Vic because he was born too late to have driven a good police car.
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 1: Not everybody's, fortunate.
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 3: I'm not even going to comment on that.
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 3: I can say my first one.
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 2: Anytime we would have a high-speed pursuit.
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 2: The engine got so hot, the car got so hot and the AC couldn't keep up and the brakes I got out of it quickly, I went quickly into undercover so I wasn't in that car that long.
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 2: But yeah, I mean I have lots of different undercover cars, A lot of them not cool.
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 3: Currently.
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 3: What is your firm name?
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 2: The Lady Law Shield.
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 2: Thank you for asking.
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 1: Where can people find you?
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 2: The Lady Law Shield Law Firm.
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 2: It is ladylawshieldcom and that is all.
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 2: The ways to find me is from the website.
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 3: You can find the information out right here.
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 3: We will put the information in our link.
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 3: Yeah, if you're listening, we will put it on our Spotify Apple Podcasts.
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 3: All into the description.
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 1: Lady Law.
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 1: Lady Law Reality show.
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 1: Lady Law Clinton, you got anything else?
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 1: National Peace Officer.
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 1: Memorial of DC like 12 through 15.
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 3: And then obviously our TNPA FOP joint conference is going to be late july.
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 3: Uh, registration is should be open by the time this podcast drops.
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 3: We are hoping to push all that information out to you guys very much, looking forward to seeing y'all there.
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 3: It's like a big family reunion, july 26th through 28th dallas height at regents reunion tower it's gonna be a good time, good time.
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 3: Well, I think this about wraps it up.
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 3: You got anything else, big Bill?
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 1: Cannot thank you enough for coming on.
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 1: We met at the National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Event in Fort Worth.
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 2: In that Hall of Fame, hall of Fame Induction.
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 2: Yes, that was amazing, it was cool.
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 1: Got to visit, got to hang out a little bit and glad we got.
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 1: I'll go back on this.
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 2: You too, thanks for having me.
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 1: It was awesome.
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 1: It was awesome Good times, good times.
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 3: Well, this about wraps this thing up.
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 3: You guys, take care, stay safe, god bless you and, as always, may God bless Texas.
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 3: We're out.
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 3: Thank you, bye.