Latest / Houselights: A Film Director Podcast / They Live (1988) - John Carpenter | Houselights #299

Transcript

They Live (1988) - John Carpenter | Houselights #299 · Houselights: A Film Director Podcast

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Nerd Party.
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: I came here to chew bubblegum and podcast, and I'm
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: all out of bubblegum. We are here in the final
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: entry of the House of Carpenter to talk about his...
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: cult classic and modest hit for its day, They Live,
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: a movie which has found a completely new life in
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: a host of gifts that you can get all across
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: the internet and use all the time, especially for the
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: aforementioned bubblegum line. I am wrestling aficionado, at least from
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: the 1980s, John Mills, here to cover this movie with
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: my two compatriots, my very stubborn friend, Darren Moser, who
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: won't put the sunglasses on, and tool of the evil
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: alien regime that is keeping us all asleep, Tristan Riddell.
• 1:05
  Speaker 3: It tracks so well, John. Yes, it does.
• 1:07
  Speaker 4: It tracks so much. Is there a red mark on
• 1:10
  Speaker 4: my face?
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: When you and I first saw each other, John, we
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: just couldn't stop punching each other for five minutes.
• 1:15
  Speaker 4: It was great.
• 1:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly.
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: So, you know, here we are talking about They Live,
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: a movie that is yet another John Carpenter movie that
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: has been it was a Mills family favorite, not because
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: my dad watched it, but because my brother and I
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: were huge wrestling fans. And in particular, Rowdy Roddy Piper
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: was absolutely a staple of my childhood. So as soon
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: as a movie by John Carpenter came out that was
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: starring Roddy Piper and it was available on video, my
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: brother and I were like, oh, yeah. oh yeah, we're
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: going to see this the minute we can put our
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: hands on it. So that's my background with it. But
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: you two gentlemen, I believe are too young to have
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: seen They Live. Is this a first time viewing for
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: the both of you?
• 1:59
  Speaker 3: Jog my memory.
• 2:00
  Speaker 5: No, I've seen it before.
• 2:02
  Speaker 4: Okay.
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: For me, it was, I couldn't remember. And on rewatch,
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: it came back like, okay, I remember this part like that.
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: I had seen it before, but it had been so
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: long before. that I'd forgotten the plot. Like I didn't
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: know what was going to happen next, but it filled
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: in those gaps.
• 2:21
  Speaker 4: As it played. We've all seen movies like that.
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: Now, of course, this movie deals with a down on
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: his luck guy who shows up in LA trying to
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: find work. And he, along the way, hijinks ensue when
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: he discovers sunglasses that allow him to see past the
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: illusion and realize that aliens have infiltrated the society and
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: they are controlling our minds with hidden messages in everything
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: from broadcasts to billboards to magazines. So what I want
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: to talk about first this week is we talked about
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: it last week, how everything we had watched was basically
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: shot by Dean Cundy. And it was, the question we
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: always have is like, where do you see Carpenter? And
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: it's like, well, we've only seen him working with Cundy.
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: So when he gets away from Cundy, what's it going
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: to look like? Is it still going to look the same?
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: So Darren, I'll actually throw it to you first. Did
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: you see a difference here? And did you miss Cundy
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: in any way?
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: No, I, it's felt like, I could tell that Carpenter
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: was kind of maturing. This did not feel like a
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: TV movie. This felt like a cinema movie. I mean,
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: just the effects, which are subtle, but the whole world
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: behind the glasses is so amazingly executed from really complicated
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: shots of moving the glasses in front of the camera
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: to the standard blink and now you're in black and
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: white now you're in color you know it's it runs
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: the gambit of of those effects but no i i
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: didn't necessarily miss the cinematographer i felt you know this
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: did its job of placing me in this world i
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: felt like i was in the late 80s you know
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: i felt like you know maybe it was the big
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: hair or or the product placement but i think the
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: the premise of this movie is such a Twilight Zone
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: TV movie type that you kind of have to elevate
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: it to a cinematic experience to a point, or it's
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: going to feel like a TV movie of the week.
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: And all that to say, I think the cinematography did that.
• 4:54
  Speaker 4: Okay.
• 4:54
  Speaker 3: So Tristan, same question to you.
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: Do you miss Cundy or do you think that, carpenter
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: proves that cundy was a great collaborator but not necessary
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: for the visual mystique of john carpenter.
• 5:06
  Speaker 6: I missed cundy yeah i um i thought the cinematography
• 5:11
  Speaker 6: was fine there was nothing wrong with it it wasn't
• 5:16
  Speaker 6: it wasn't inefficient it wasn't insufficient it was just lacking
• 5:22
  Speaker 6: cundy i i really do feel like it didn't have
• 5:25
  Speaker 6: panache it didn't really have style I felt like it
• 5:28
  Speaker 6: was utilitarian. It got the shot, it established the space,
• 5:33
  Speaker 6: it moved on. I feel like there was probably more
• 5:36
  Speaker 6: glory in the editing with this because of all the
• 5:40
  Speaker 6: different types of action scenes and because of showing what's
• 5:44
  Speaker 6: seen through the glasses, what's not seen through the glasses,
• 5:47
  Speaker 6: and trying to make the spaces that.
• 5:52
  Speaker 6: Showing you geographically where everything is I was never lost.
• 5:56
  Speaker 6: Like even when he was going through the bowels of
• 5:58
  Speaker 6: the church, like I knew exactly where he was and
• 6:01
  Speaker 6: in relation to everything else. And if you look at
• 6:03
  Speaker 6: how a big trouble in little China was shot, there's
• 6:07
  Speaker 6: just this, this essence to it, this, this tangible quality
• 6:12
  Speaker 6: of character and substance. And I just really think this
• 6:18
  Speaker 6: was bland by comparison.
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: I would actually go all the way back to escape
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: from New York because that's shoestring.
• 6:26
  Speaker 3: And still has some visual flair.
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: Whatever other problems anybody might have with it, I think
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: that you can really get the sense of, oh, the
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: person that is setting these shots up is really using
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: light in a certain way. And the thing that carries
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: through as well, all those beautiful shots with the flares
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: and stuff like that at night. I guess I split
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: the difference. I didn't necessarily miss Cundy, quote unquote, but
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: I agree with you, Tristan. It doesn't have the same
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: vibe to it. The visual language is not as alive
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: as it usually is in a Carpenter movie, though the
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: shots are perfectly fine. There are a couple that stand
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: out to me as super cool. For some reason, I've
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: always loved the shot That's moving past Roddy Piper as
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: he's looking at the camera saying, either you're going to
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: put those glasses on or you're going to be wearing
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: that trash can. That shot, for some reason, I'm like,
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: if there was more of that in this movie, I
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: would have absolutely fallen in love with the visual style.
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: That's where I feel like some panache coming through. I
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: think even the shot of him walking into the bank
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: before he delivers the iconic line, I thought that was
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: beautifully shot. So there are moments where it comes across
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: as But then I go back to the moments where
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: it's insufficient are like when he's in the back room
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: of the church. That feels very stilted and limited in
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: the way that it uses the space. And I think,
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: and again, this is another movie where I have to say,
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: I can't completely divorce my nostalgia from this. Because again,
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: I watched it specifically because Roddy Piper was in it
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: as a kid. And I just, I have a hard
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: time being too tough on it. But I feel like
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: if I didn't have that nostalgia, I'd probably be even
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: tougher on the visual style here. But that goes into,
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: you know, Tristan, you said the editing. With the editing here,
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: we got two names editing it, Gib Jaffe and Frank Jimenez.
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: And you mentioned the editing a second ago. So Is
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: the editing, you think, the really successful part of it?
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: Do you think that's what makes the transitions that Darren's
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: talking about work so well? What is it about the
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: editing that works for you here?
• 8:47
  Speaker 6: On a micro level, the editing works really, really well.
• 8:53
  Speaker 6: I feel like there was no shots that kind of
• 8:58
  Speaker 6: made me think, why the hell did we do that? Like,
• 9:01
  Speaker 6: why are we looking at this now? What are we
• 9:03
  Speaker 6: doing here? Why are we looking at this person? Why
• 9:05
  Speaker 6: are we looking at that person?
• 9:06
  Speaker 4: When does this happen in the movie? Yes.
• 9:12
  Speaker 6: So I didn't feel any of that. The fight scene,
• 9:15
  Speaker 6: I thought that was wonderfully cut. It was really, like,
• 9:18
  Speaker 6: it kept it interesting. There was none of that Jason
• 9:21
  Speaker 6: Bourne BS where you have 15 cuts for one punch
• 9:25
  Speaker 6: and you have no idea who's actually throwing the punch
• 9:27
  Speaker 6: or anything like that.
• 9:28
  Speaker 3: Like, this is.
• 9:29
  Speaker 6: A literal and metaphorical street brawl. And they show it
• 9:35
  Speaker 6: as such. And that's when you have Roddy Piper. If
• 9:39
  Speaker 6: you're going to get Roddy Piper, then put him in
• 9:42
  Speaker 6: a street brawl. Have him throw some garbage cans. Now,
• 9:46
  Speaker 6: here's the thing. From a macro level of editing, I
• 9:49
  Speaker 6: think every scene went on two minutes too long.
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: That's interesting to me because the movie's 94 minutes. So
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: you're saying in a perfect world, this should have been
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: about 80.
• 10:00
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 10:01
  Speaker 6: I think it has 80 minutes worth of content and
• 10:04
  Speaker 6: they stretched it hard. And this is very common. I
• 10:08
  Speaker 6: think when movies are based off of short stories, is
• 10:11
  Speaker 6: that they're trying to fill in the gaps. They're trying
• 10:15
  Speaker 6: to make it cinematic. Sometimes it works.
• 10:16
  Speaker 5: Sometimes it doesn't.
• 10:18
  Speaker 6: I'm not saying this movie doesn't work, But as a movie,
• 10:22
  Speaker 6: I don't think it drags. But when you're watching it,
• 10:26
  Speaker 6: you're just like, we're still here. We're still in this scene. Now,
• 10:32
  Speaker 6: the fight is a unique case because it goes on
• 10:36
  Speaker 6: and you're like, wow, this is a really long scene.
• 10:38
  Speaker 6: And then like it keeps going. You're like, OK, good Lord,
• 10:42
  Speaker 6: we get it.
• 10:43
  Speaker 5: Wrap it up. But then it keeps going and it
• 10:46
  Speaker 5: gets fun again.
• 10:47
  Speaker 3: And it's just one of those griffin is peter griffin
• 10:50
  Speaker 3: hitting his shin.
• 10:52
  Speaker 6: Yeah exactly exactly it's like oh this is really funny
• 10:55
  Speaker 6: okay you're going on too long but then it goes
• 10:57
  Speaker 6: on long enough that it gets funny again but yet
• 11:00
  Speaker 6: with an action fight and interesting and so i find
• 11:03
  Speaker 6: that very unique about it but with other stuff it
• 11:05
  Speaker 6: just go like the um the grocery scene yes two
• 11:09
  Speaker 6: minutes is an exaggeration you can't cut two minutes from
• 11:11
  Speaker 6: that grocery scene but Oh, and the scene when he
• 11:15
  Speaker 6: finds the glasses and he's at the magazine stand.
• 11:18
  Speaker 4: Yeah. I understand. We get it. We get what the
• 11:22
  Speaker 4: glasses do.
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: But let's take 10 minutes to make sure our character
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: knows what the glasses do.
• 11:27
  Speaker 4: No, no, I got it. When's the commercial break coming? Yeah.
• 11:31
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I think that's the thing.
• 11:32
  Speaker 6: Like, it's a really interesting scene and you need to
• 11:35
  Speaker 6: be with that character in order to find it. But
• 11:37
  Speaker 6: at the same time, you're like, oh, my gosh, let's
• 11:40
  Speaker 6: cut to the chase.
• 11:41
  Speaker 4: Here, folks.
• 11:42
  Speaker 3: I agree with you.
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: I think in those moments, Carpenter falls too much in
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: love with the conceit of the moment. But I will
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: defend that fight to my dying day as one of
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: the best screen fights ever put on film, specifically because
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: I remember watching it and my brother, who's always been
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: very much involved in fighting and martial arts and stuff
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: like that.
• 12:06
  Speaker 3: I remember being a young lad and my brother, who
• 12:09
  Speaker 3: was already involved in.
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: That world, going, that fight, That's actually that's that's how
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: it goes. He wasn't saying like this is the most
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: realistic fight ever. But he's like, you bite, you take
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: dirty shots, you swing two by fours. That's what's realistic
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: about the fight scene is it's not abiding by this.
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: Like I throw a punch and then you throw the
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: uppercut and then you go over and stuff like that.
• 12:30
  Speaker 3: It's like it's suplexes. It's it's breaking car windows and
• 12:35
  Speaker 3: it progresses.
• 12:36
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 12:37
  Speaker 6: Like you can see them get more desperate and dirtier
• 12:39
  Speaker 6: in the fighting as they get. you know, um, get
• 12:43
  Speaker 6: more and more beat up. The, the first time I
• 12:45
  Speaker 6: saw this film, it wasn't in its entirety. Uh, my
• 12:48
  Speaker 6: dad was watching it on TV and this was the
• 12:51
  Speaker 6: scene I walked in on. And I turned to my dad,
• 12:56
  Speaker 6: I think I was pretty young at the time. And
• 12:59
  Speaker 6: I turned to my dad, I'm just like, what, what
• 13:01
  Speaker 6: is going on? And I always loved how my dad
• 13:05
  Speaker 6: talked about plots with zero, um, He was not sardonic
• 13:11
  Speaker 6: at all. No sarcasm. He was completely honest. He's like, well,
• 13:15
  Speaker 6: you see, Tristan, there's these glasses. And they can see
• 13:22
  Speaker 6: a completely different world. They can see the world how
• 13:25
  Speaker 6: it truly is. And they're all being brainwashed. These aliens
• 13:28
  Speaker 6: have invaded. And he's trying to convince them to put
• 13:31
  Speaker 6: on the glasses. And Keith David over there, he doesn't
• 13:33
  Speaker 6: want to put on the glasses. And so they're fighting
• 13:35
  Speaker 6: about it. And it's just like, it's just always like that.
• 13:37
  Speaker 6: And like, here's a tangent about my dad that I
• 13:41
  Speaker 6: absolutely loved was, um, Texas, uh, Walker, Texas Ranger. My
• 13:46
  Speaker 6: dad used to watch tons of Walker, Texas Ranger. And
• 13:49
  Speaker 6: I was, I was a wee lad. There was a
• 13:51
  Speaker 6: scene where Chuck Norris, he kind of squints and the
• 13:54
  Speaker 6: camera zooms into his face. And then you can see
• 13:57
  Speaker 6: what Chuck Norris is thinking and seeing in his mind's eye.
• 13:59
  Speaker 3: Dad, what is this?
• 14:00
  Speaker 5: What's going on? He's like, well, you see, Tristan Walker,
• 14:06
  Speaker 5: He's a psychic Indian.
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: I now want your dad to write the back covers
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: of DVDs.
• 14:19
  Speaker 4: You see this, viewer. There's these glasses.
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: I was afraid you were going to say you walked
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: in on the fight and you said, Dad, what's going on?
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: And he was going to look at you and say,
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: and that's how I met your mother.
• 14:30
  Speaker 4: So....
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: Darren, same sort of question to you, right? Like, do
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: you agree with Tristan? Does it go on in a
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: macro level too long? Is this an 80-minute movie stretched
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: like taffy to 94 minutes? Or did you feel like
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: it had a good pace?
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: Well, one last thing I wanted to say about the fight,
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: because I didn't know this until research, but apparently it
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: was inspired a lot by the really, really long brawl.
• 14:57
  Speaker 4: In A Quiet Man, which is an amazing, you know, John... Wayne,
• 15:03
  Speaker 4: like they're just, they just keep going.
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: Like they pause and get a pint and then keep fighting. Like.
• 15:08
  Speaker 3: Spoilers for people who haven't seen it, Darren.
• 15:11
  Speaker 4: Come on, man. It was 1952, John. It's we've got,
• 15:14
  Speaker 4: got some time.
• 15:15
  Speaker 3: I'm just saying I'm being considerate of the audience here.
• 15:17
  Speaker 3: Come on.
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: Well, I'll, I'll go back to my opening statement about
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: the TV movie of the concept. I'm not saying the
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: visuals I'm saying like the core of this story is
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: a paragraph and And you, yeah, you can feel where
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: they're like the fight, the newsstand, certain scenes, like those
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: are the key scenes that they had in mind. And
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: then they kind of stretch them a little bit because
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: we got a pad. We got to get that runtime going.
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: I agree with Tristan. Every major sequence runs a little long. Like, oh,
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: he's a wanderer. He's still wandering. Like, I think maybe
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: think back to like, uh, Rambo or First Blood, you know,
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: he's wandering into town, but we establish that fairly quickly.
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: I don't feel any of those shots are wasted on
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: establishing who Rambo is. In this, like, it's a good
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: amount of time before he settles in the homeless encampment
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: and he gets a little, you know, business job and
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: he's working at the construction site. I give it some
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: grace because Just the two leads are so amazing in
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: every scene they're in.
• 16:35
  Speaker 4: But this could easily be.
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: A TV movie of the week and be like an hour.
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: And you wouldn't really lose anything plot-wise. You could easily
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: edit for TV and show it in one hour block.
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: See, I'll come back to this later, but I actually
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: think that this... could slash should be turned into a
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: limited run, like six episode Netflix thing.
• 17:04
  Speaker 5: I think you could go either way.
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: Well, I think that the problem with the editing becomes apparent.
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: And there were a couple of critics who said this,
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: were like, once it gets to like the back half
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: of the movie, it's like Carpenter almost seems to get
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: disinterested in keeping it together. It's almost like the fight
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: really is the crescendo and they spent so much energy
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: figuring it out. that it was like, yeah, okay, the
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: rest is going to sort of sort itself out. I'm
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: not saying that to trash the movie. I'm saying it
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: in light of the fact that every time I watch it,
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: I'm invested. I get what you guys are saying about
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: it goes on for a long time, but I'm like,
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: I kind of like the sort of leisurely pace that
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: it takes because it's like, okay, it's the monotony of life.
• 17:48
  Speaker 3: It's like, okay, it's just every day.
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: You see how people sort of get lulled into this,
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: you know, complacency of like, okay, this is just the
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: way the world is. And then he has the shock
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: where he sees everything and it goes off running. But the,
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: the final, you know, I guess like 20 minutes of
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: the movie or whatever, it, it almost seems just to
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: be so concerned with just wrapping it up as quickly
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: as it can that I'm like.
• 18:13
  Speaker 3: Well, wait a minute.
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: No.
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: Like when the cops come in to, you know, bust
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: up the revolution, the underground meeting, right. There are a
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: couple of questions I have with it, but whatever, because
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: I thought they were on the second floor and the
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: cops come through the wall. And I'm like, and then
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: they go down and the cops are on the ground.
• 18:31
  Speaker 3: I'm like, wait, what?
• 18:32
  Speaker 6: How?
• 18:34
  Speaker 3: How did that work? I'm not going to waste time
• 18:37
  Speaker 3: trying to figure it out, though.
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: But like even that scene, it's like you look at
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: the artistry of the way they put together that fight scene.
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: And then the cops coming in, that's where I think
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: the cinematography falls down. That's where I think the editing
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: falls down. is it just gets so choppy. And then
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: from that moment on, it's almost like the sense of like,
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: all right, let's just, we're going to wrap this up.
• 18:57
  Speaker 3: We're going to wrap this up. And it's like, I
• 18:59
  Speaker 3: don't like that about the ending.
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: The ending, I was very reminded of Escape from New York.
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: Like that low budget, early carpenter. Like it felt like
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: when we were in the broadcast building, it felt like
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: another scene from Escape from New York. Like the way
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: the hallways were shot, You know, you come around a
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: corner and you're kind of still like the story hasn't
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: actually progressed. You're just in another hallway escaping another two
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: bad guys that come around the corner and can't get
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: a beat on you again. Like that happens like five
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: times in a row.
• 19:37
  Speaker 4: And then, yeah.
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: And then he gets up on the tower or on
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: the roof and it's like, okay, we're done. I mean, it's,
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: it is a very interesting, like it, you're right.
• 19:49
  Speaker 4: Like, of is a climax. I don't know.
• 19:51
  Speaker 6: I mean, I kind of like that it ended that way.
• 19:54
  Speaker 5: I like that.
• 19:55
  Speaker 4: It's just a, it's a choice.
• 19:57
  Speaker 5: It is a choice.
• 19:58
  Speaker 6: I mean, there's no Daniel Ma. There's no, there's no
• 20:00
  Speaker 6: real falling action other than the fall out. Would I
• 20:03
  Speaker 6: have ended the movie on the shot that it did?
• 20:07
  Speaker 5: Probably not. Do I remember it? Yeah.
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: Like I appreciated at the time that they ended the
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: shot that way, being a young man. But I think
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: that I love.
• 20:18
  Speaker 5: They died, though. I love that both of them died.
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: I love the very end. I actually love the very
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: end because that's the that's the fun side of Carpenter
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: coming out. That last scene is just his sense of
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: humor coming out. And I love his sense of humor.
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: And I think it's just of funny way to send
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: the audience out the door with like a little shock
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: comedy moment, everything leading up to that though, Darren, you're right. Like,
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: you know, you turn a corner and there's more bad
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: guys and turn a corner and there's more bad guys.
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: And it's like, you even have the opportunity to have
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: more dialogue to maybe set up that she's about to
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: betray him the way she does. Like it's even that it's,
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: it's almost like they sacrificed set up for the sake
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: of that shock.
• 21:04
  Speaker 3: Moment with her pulling the gun on him. Um, And
• 21:09
  Speaker 3: I think that.
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: Probably one of my favorite shots in the movie as
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: well is from the end, though, of the alien at
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: the bar watching TV and everybody's like freaking out looking
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: at him sort of thing.
• 21:26
  Speaker 5: Which is clearly a doll.
• 21:28
  Speaker 3: It doesn't move.
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 21:31
  Speaker 5: Which is so weird to see.
• 21:33
  Speaker 3: I think that, you know.
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: With that, it's a movie that almost feels like it
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: needed more development. And sometimes that gets back to the writing.
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: And Carpenter wrote this under a pseudonym, Frank Armitage. And so, Tristan,
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: we're looking at it from the production and post-production standpoint.
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: Do you think that Carpenter just didn't give himself enough
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: time to work on the script? Do you think if
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: he'd given himself a little more time, He could have
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: made this 94 minutes beefier.
• 22:10
  Speaker 6: Yeah, absolutely. I think he had a good idea. I
• 22:13
  Speaker 6: think he had a solid approach. And I think it
• 22:17
  Speaker 6: just needed a few more rounds. He needed somebody to
• 22:19
  Speaker 6: come in and just punch it up. He needed a
• 22:22
  Speaker 6: Carrie Fisher. And I think with that, this structure... There's
• 22:29
  Speaker 6: nothing wrong with the structure. It's just you need to
• 22:32
  Speaker 6: fill it out.
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: And.
• 22:39
  Speaker 5: You'll have to forgive me, John, but Roddy Piper is
• 22:43
  Speaker 5: a horrible actor.
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: The next time I see you in person, I'm going
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: to be dressed as rowdy Roddy Piper. And I'm going
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: to treat you to, you know what I want every,
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: I want you and I want everybody else. I want
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: you to look up on YouTube, uh, Piper's pit, which
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: was the talk show that Roddy Piper had during WWF, uh,
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: matches and stuff like that, that they would air on
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: the UHS stations.
• 23:09
  Speaker 3: Look one of them up. That's what's coming for you.
• 23:12
  Speaker 3: I hope you understand that. So go on.
• 23:15
  Speaker 5: Good, sir. I, I respect that. And I expect it.
• 23:19
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 23:19
  Speaker 6: But yeah, it's just, I mean, he was clearly a
• 23:23
  Speaker 6: Kurt Russell stand in, you know, where.
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: According to Carpenter, Carpenter said he met him at WrestleMania
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: three and decided in that moment, he was the guy
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: he wanted because he wasn't pretty. And he looked like
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: a guy who had taken a couple of beatings in life.
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: I don't talk about that because from, from the sweet
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: watch as we're going through and yeah, it's Kurt Russell,
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: this Kurt Russell, that like he's everywhere. I totally thought
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: that was going to be the case too, where, Oh,
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: it didn't work out or, Oh, Kurt Russell's a little
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: bit too big of a star, but I can see the,
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: the reason to, to not just put Kurt Russell in that, uh, oh,
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: he's the leading guy in a John Carpenter movie of
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: the 80s, better put him in. I think Roddy's the
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: better choice. I don't think Kurt Russell would have been.
• 24:15
  Speaker 6: I agree that how this movie played out, having someone
• 24:22
  Speaker 6: like Roddy makes sense, but I feel like if he cast,
• 24:32
  Speaker 6: if Kurt Russell was in this film, it would be,
• 24:34
  Speaker 6: he would have been able to elevate the script. He
• 24:38
  Speaker 6: would have been able to take Carpenter's material and try
• 24:41
  Speaker 6: to find a way to elevate the words. And I
• 24:43
  Speaker 6: don't think Piper has the ability to do that.
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: Now, I love me some Kurt Russell, so I'll never
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: disagree with that sentiment. You know, you could put Kurt
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: Russell in just about any movie where it's like, hey,
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: sub that person out and put Kurt Russell in. And
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: my reflex action is to say, Uh-huh.
• 25:03
  Speaker 3: Yeah, sure.
• 25:03
  Speaker 4: Absolutely. He's an amazing Santa Claus, for goodness sakes.
• 25:07
  Speaker 3: It's ridiculous.
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: There's very little that Kurt Russell can't do, but he's
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: working on a way to do the rest of it.
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: But the reason I think Piper works is because I
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: think Piper gives this movie permission to.
• 25:19
  Speaker 3: Be, I don't want to say bad because it's not bad,
• 25:24
  Speaker 3: but pulpy.
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: This feels like a big homage to, you know, you
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: watch a Lucas and Spielberg movie from the eighties and
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: it's an homage to the cereals and Flash Gordon and
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: stuff like that. This feels like an homage to the
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: type of movies that Carpenter was watching when he was
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: a kid, which are of a decidedly different flavor and
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: they have an appeal. Carpenter's always had this, this exploitation
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: film vibe to him. He's, he's almost that people might,
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: consider this apostasy. He's almost like a proto Tarantino. You
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: can see his influences all over him. And I think
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: in they live, it really comes through, but I think
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: they live is like his death proof. Either you're going
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: to be along for it and say, okay, I get
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: the sort of cheesy thing you're going for. And I'm
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: going to give you a lot of grace. Or are
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: you going to look at it? You're going to be like, Hey,
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: you could do better than this. But I like, and
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: I understand both because I look at they live and
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: I'm like, I, this is the guy that did the thing.
• 26:26
  Speaker 3: Like the thing?
• 26:27
  Speaker 4: Really?
• 26:28
  Speaker 3: That's this guy?
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: Or even Big Trouble in Little China has more fun
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: to it. I would have loved to see more fun
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: in this one because while people, you know, Darren, a
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: lot of people say this was when Carpenter finally got political,
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: quote unquote. But this is the guy that did Assault
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: on Precinct 13. Escape from New York has political commentary
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: all over it. like, do you give any credence? Is
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: this any more overtly political? Do you think that this
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: is more of a commentary film?
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's, I don't feel it's as much a
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: commentary movie, but it is more overt. I think just
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: the nature of the, the premise, like, I mean, they're
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: literally a, you could pull a still image from this
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: and it's just black and white with the word obey.
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: Like you can't get more, straight than that. And, and
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: I think it resonates as far as people kind of
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: pay attention to it. And then I think they shift to, okay,
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: well then what is this saying? Because I, you've captivated
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: my interest in this world and these aliens. And then
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: it kind of just tells a story of a guy
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: who likes punching people and, and the resistance. It doesn't
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: elevate its commentary, which I'm not saying is bad. I'm
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: saying it just, it sticks with the course it's taking.
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: I think I get what you're saying.
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: And I think what you're getting at is that there's
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: sort of a lack of subtlety to it. And Tristan,
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: would you agree that that's a flaw with the movie
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: or do you like the lack of subtlety? Do you
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: think that adds to its charm?
• 28:12
  Speaker 6: Well, I think the lack of subtlety definitely adds to
• 28:15
  Speaker 6: its charm because it's as subtle as a hammer to
• 28:19
  Speaker 6: the face. And that's okay because sometimes it's, that works
• 28:23
  Speaker 6: with the shtick. I think that is the shtick. And it's,
• 28:28
  Speaker 6: I mean, when you're doing subliminal messages, sometimes you don't
• 28:34
  Speaker 6: need to be subtle because you need the audience to
• 28:37
  Speaker 6: get it. You need the audience to recognize right away
• 28:42
  Speaker 6: what's happening and when it's happening, because it's like, uh,
• 28:46
  Speaker 6: it's like, again, another family guy reference. It's, um, the
• 28:49
  Speaker 6: quote unquote subliminal messages in Lassie, when all of a
• 28:53
  Speaker 6: sudden you see this, this guy in the middle of
• 28:56
  Speaker 6: the scene going smoke.
• 28:58
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 28:59
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 29:00
  Speaker 3: Exactly.
• 29:00
  Speaker 5: That's this movie.
• 29:01
  Speaker 6: I got to obey, you know, don't like watch TV,
• 29:05
  Speaker 6: don't have imagination and everything like that. It's just like,
• 29:08
  Speaker 6: it's reinforcing the ideas. And I think what kills me
• 29:12
  Speaker 6: is that the only thing that makes this feel like
• 29:15
  Speaker 6: the eighties is the hair. Because if you change the hair,
• 29:19
  Speaker 6: this could have been any decade.
• 29:21
  Speaker 4: And that makes me sad.
• 29:23
  Speaker 3: I'm glad you touch on that. Because, you know, and Darren,
• 29:26
  Speaker 3: I'll kick it over to you.
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: Like, I think that what's fascinating, what makes this successful,
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: despite its lack of subtlety, is exactly what Tristan's saying.
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: My take is it's a type of satire or social
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: commentary that it doesn't matter what your particular flavor of
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: worldview is. You're going to jump on with it and go, well, yeah, obviously,
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: we're all being manipulated.
• 29:52
  Speaker 3: Do you think that Carpenter.
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: manages to thread that needle and make it a universal
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: type of concept that everybody can watch and say oh
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: well yeah obviously i.
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: Think it does because it really there's kind of two
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: layers to it there's the the commentary layer which is
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: oh look what the aliens are making us do they're
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: make look at all the subliminal you know things that
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: are beamed into our brains and look at all this
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: exposition dump to get us to understand all the, the,
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: you know, the political kind of stuff. But at a,
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: at a baser level, which I think is what makes
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: it a fun movie is just the whole premise of
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: the hiding in plain sight in a frequency outside of
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: our view. Like you could just have a movie about that.
• 30:39
  Speaker 4: And that's really interesting that they're here. They're everywhere.
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: Every third person you pass on the street is an
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: alien and, even without the, you know, beaming thoughts into
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: the mind, that is a really interesting story. So I
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: think that's what kind of helps this movie work is
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: that if you aren't really as bought into the commentary aspect,
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: you're still having a fun time with your protagonist uncovering
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: this mystery at the, at that big, that, you know,
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: that foundation level. And then if you want to take
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: it farther into like, oh yeah, oh man, yeah, this
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: could be made, this decade or this decade or this decade.
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: And it's not really that different. And so, yeah, it
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: works on two levels and that kind of makes it timeless.
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: Tristan, did you appreciate the fact that we have an
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: alien species, which has shown up and has taken up residence,
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: but we don't get treated to any scenes of them
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: harvesting and or eating people? Do you think that that
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: sets this movie apart a little bit too, is that
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: there isn't a stretch for gore because it, it tends
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: to be in this sort of sub-genre. You know, a
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: lot of times it's like, oh, because they make reference
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: to us as livestock or pets in the movie. And
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: usually we get some sort of like disturbing scene with
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: people being harvested in some way. You know, do you
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: appreciate that we don't get that aspect to it?
• 32:04
  Speaker 6: I think interesting to me is how quickly Roddy Piper says,
• 32:11
  Speaker 6: you know what, screw it, I'm going to rob a bank.
• 32:14
  Speaker 5: I think.
• 32:15
  Speaker 6: It's a bit of a leap. Because he didn't see
• 32:19
  Speaker 6: them feasting on people. He didn't see them, you know,
• 32:23
  Speaker 6: he didn't see the gore. He didn't see them eat
• 32:25
  Speaker 6: a baby. He didn't see them, you know, like harvesting
• 32:29
  Speaker 6: us like in the Matrix or anything like that, which
• 32:32
  Speaker 6: he just saw some weird people who might not even
• 32:35
  Speaker 6: be aliens, just saw some really weird people through some
• 32:39
  Speaker 6: mysterious glasses and then was like, you know what? Nothing matters.
• 32:43
  Speaker 6: I'm going to go punch a cop Actually, no, I'm
• 32:46
  Speaker 6: going to kill two cops and I'm going to rob
• 32:49
  Speaker 6: a bank. And just like that jump is huge. So
• 32:53
  Speaker 6: I feel like if we witnessed the aliens doing something
• 33:00
  Speaker 6: sinister like that, it would have given Piper a little
• 33:04
  Speaker 6: bit more motivation to do what he did.
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: I see what you're saying with that, especially because the, like,
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: the question I'm left with is if these are the
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: big aliens that are trying to keep their secret, uh,
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: you know, eventually you get there, they want to find
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: out where he got the glasses and everything like that.
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: But like the cops who grab them, they're like, they're
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: not even pulling their guns. They're like, Hey, Hey, come on,
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: come with us. Let's talk this out. So like, you're
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: right there. There isn't a big atrocity moment that makes him,
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: you know, go crazy. I mean, Darren, do you think
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: that could have been solved at the script stage? Have Piper, uh,
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: have the incident with the cops, then go on the
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: run before we jump to, you know, the famous bubble
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: gum line.
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah. It's interesting because it makes me wonder like what
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: parts would have been punched up if this was remade today.
• 33:56
  Speaker 4: And because there's, there's no villain figure. It's the collective
• 34:02
  Speaker 4: we're against.
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: Like I kind of need a, a singular alien that's
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: kind of calling the shots and, to to rally my
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: anger around because they're so blasé about like why are
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: they even worried as long as that antenna stays on
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: no one's gonna believe this guy no one's gonna believe
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: anybody yeah they can be seen but only by the
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: people like are they worried that everybody's gonna get glasses
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: i i guess but i think it's one of those
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: things where i could use a couple of rounds a
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: little more in the story department. Those are the moments
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: where it's showing that TV of the, you know, video
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: of the week.
• 34:49
  Speaker 4: Bones that are making this structure.
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: Well, I think even as you look at, you know,
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: here in our house of carpenter, he writes this under
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: a pseudonym, but I think that there's no question that
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: when he has somebody else writing either with him in
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: his career or or for him in his career, it
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: tends to allow him the focus to further refine things,
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: to make them work. He can focus on being a director.
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: And again, I'm not trying to take anything away from him.
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: I'm a huge fan, as you know. But I think
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: that this exposes where he needed that extra brain working
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: with him to sit in the room and pitch the
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: alternate concept or say, you know what, take this scene here,
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: move it over there so that Roddy Piper has his
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: encounter with the cops. Then he talks with the resistance.
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: Then he goes off and he says, no, screw you.
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: I'm going to take care of this on my own.
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: Then he shows up at the bank. Then he realizes
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: he needs the resistance and then et cetera, et cetera,
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: et cetera.
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: So there's one aspect that I kept thinking about is,
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: I love the newsstand scene. I think it's done really well.
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: It really conveys the fact that every product is individually
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: labeled is really chilling.
• 36:12
  Speaker 4: But I feel like they could have done more with Frank,
• 36:17
  Speaker 4: with Keith David's realization.
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: Because here's another opportunity to do the same thing where
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: you are initially exposing a human to the veil falling.
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: I wanted that to be at a very inopportune moment. Like,
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: their fight leads them onto a subway. They can't just
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: be looking around at everybody, wigging out. Like, they have
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: to play it cool really quick, or they're in big trouble.
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: I don't want to change the newsstand, but it's so
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: over the top of, like, he's just staring at everything,
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: and he's starting to call people weird. Like, they see
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: through him He's not very bright. Like they see through
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: the fact that he can see them really quickly. I
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: wanted something a little different with Keith David, where maybe
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: he's a little quicker on the uptake and he realizes like, oh,
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: it's like walking into a room and realizing that everybody
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: here is your enemy. And how do you get out
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: of that room? You know, there was never that amount
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: of fear in that second reveal. I think that's something
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: I would have punched up.
• 37:31
  Speaker 3: Okay, I accept that.
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: But obviously audiences wound up going along with Carpenter on
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: this ride to an extent.
• 37:38
  Speaker 3: It opened at number one.
• 37:41
  Speaker 2: After a string of disappointing box office returns, he has
• 37:46
  Speaker 2: a $ 4 million budget. He more than triples it. So
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: good on him. He gets his hit. While it's a
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: very modest hit, it's a hit nonetheless. The investors all
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: went home happy after this movie. So my question, you know,
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: just as we're sort of like rounding third here before
• 38:04
  Speaker 2: we get to final thoughts and everything, Tristan, I'll give
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: it to you. We've gone through this arc of the
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: House of Carpenter, and now you see they live. Do
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: you see growth from Escape from New York to they live,
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: or do you see somebody reverting to his origins.
• 38:25
  Speaker 3: If you will, at the end of this House.
• 38:28
  Speaker 5: Of I think he went from.
• 38:36
  Speaker 6: New York to the thing and there was a huge
• 38:42
  Speaker 6: piece of growth. It was just like, holy crap. Like
• 38:46
  Speaker 6: this guy studied or all he needed was some budget.
• 38:51
  Speaker 6: I don't see that much growth from the thing to
• 38:55
  Speaker 6: they live personally.
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: I think that's a fair comment. Now, keep in mind,
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: because people are probably barking at us, we did leave
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: out a couple of movies that Carpenter did.
• 39:06
  Speaker 5: We did.
• 39:08
  Speaker 3: He was really churning them out.
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: There was even one between Big Trouble in Little China
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: and They Live called Prince of Darkness, where he reunited
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: with Donald Pleasance.
• 39:16
  Speaker 3: He had Starman in there.
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: So he was busy, so it would be very interesting,
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: but I don't know that your your opinion would change
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: about the the arc of this journey had we included
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: those specifically because you we still wind up here at
• 39:36
  Speaker 2: they live which very much feels more like the director
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: of escape from New York than the director of the
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: thing and Darren, are you in that same camp or
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: do you see this and you're like, yeah, he figured
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: it out and we're going forward with Carpenter?
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: No, I mean, just looking at at box office, which
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: I know is just one piece of the pie.
• 39:58
  Speaker 4: That's not the measure of a director.
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: But this was the the last movie that made more
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: than its budget. It's been an interesting journey because it's
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: really a lot of it is. You know, how is
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: he pulling out the material? Who is he partnered with?
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: You know, is he composing how like all it's like
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: every single time he's kind of tweaking the settings of
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: how he's doing a movie. And sometimes it works and
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: sometimes it doesn't versus another director like like a Michael Bay.
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: Like they found their formula. Like, you know what you're
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: going to get. And and they got their team together.
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: that they work with every single time and it works.
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: And I'm not saying that that's the only way to
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: do it, but Carpenter never really felt like Kurt Russell
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: was his.
• 40:51
  Speaker 4: You know, lucky coin that kind.
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: Of filled that role a bit, but he never had that,
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: you know, the team that went with him, that, that
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: pushed him to excel or, or countered the crazy idea
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: that would just blow money and didn't really need to
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: be in the mood. Like we all need those opposing
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: forces that are going to make us better. And he
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: just never got that, unfortunately. And so it's, we get
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: this kind of rollercoaster of, you know, Halloween, you know,
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: one of the greatest horror movies ever.
• 41:28
  Speaker 4: And then, you know, ghost of Mars. And we're not
• 41:30
  Speaker 4: going to talk about, well.
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: I think that, I think that, uh, uh, you know, his,
• 41:36
  Speaker 2: his necessary counterforce, if you will, was, uh, the late
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: Deborah Hill. Um, because she was an amazing producer and
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: she was also a great writer. And I think that
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: she would, she was the necessary antagonist when he was
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: doing things to bounce the ideas off of. And I
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: think that once they've stopped working so closely together, I
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: think you see a very distinct difference. Um, which is
• 42:02
  Speaker 2: not to say he couldn't function without her. It's to
• 42:05
  Speaker 2: say that his works were richer, uh, with her a
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: lot of the time. Now, of course she didn't, I
• 42:11
  Speaker 2: don't think she worked with him on the thing and
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: the thing was a great film, but I think that
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: overall Deborah Hill being present with him during a low
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: budget film like this, I think she would have helped him, uh,
• 42:25
  Speaker 2: you know, figure it out, uh, and, and smooth it
• 42:28
  Speaker 2: out a little bit. Um, And again, The Thing is,
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: in my opinion, one of the greatest films ever made.
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: So obviously he was capable of greatness. I would argue
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: in this arc, you can sort of see how The
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: Thing was his big push. And then when it doesn't
• 42:48
  Speaker 2: get the recognition it deserves, I think it hurts him
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: a great deal. And then I think big trouble in
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: little China, you see another swing where it's, he's coming
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: in and he's having a great time and he's just
• 43:03
  Speaker 2: having fun with it. I think honestly, and then that
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: one doesn't get received particularly well. I think that Carpenter
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: is starting to show some fatigue by this point where
• 43:15
  Speaker 2: he's got the great concept, but there's sort of the
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: sense of somebody that's like, well, they're going to hate
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: it anyway. You know, like he's, he, there's almost this
• 43:25
  Speaker 2: air of defeat underneath it where it's like he just
• 43:28
  Speaker 2: figures they're going to hate it anyway. Now, I maintain
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: he still has some great films in his future from
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: this point forward.
• 43:33
  Speaker 3: Escape from L.A.
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: Is not one of them, but he does have some
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: great films in his future going forward. But, you know,
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: here we are. We've done this House of Carpenter. I'm
• 43:46
  Speaker 2: happy as a pig in slop because I love John
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: Carpenter films. Even when they're bad, they're good so far
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: as I'm concerned. So let's get to our final thoughts
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: and ratings. And, you know, we'll start with Tristan this time. Tristan,
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: final thoughts and your rating for.
• 44:07
  Speaker 3: They Live.
• 44:09
  Speaker 6: This is a classic film for a reason. This is
• 44:10
  Speaker 6: a cult classic for a reason. It has a really
• 44:12
  Speaker 6: great idea. It has some really memorable scenes. And I
• 44:18
  Speaker 6: think it starts well, it ends well. And, uh, it
• 44:21
  Speaker 6: had the, the fight scene in the alley is just
• 44:24
  Speaker 6: absolutely iconic. And I still remember my dad laughing after
• 44:29
  Speaker 6: the scene is over and they're all just like hobbling
• 44:31
  Speaker 6: down the street.
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: That's the most realistic part of that fight is the
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: way that they're walking afterward where they just can barely move.
• 44:39
  Speaker 3: That's the most realistic part.
• 44:42
  Speaker 6: Uh, this is, this is a good movie with a
• 44:45
  Speaker 6: lot wrong with it. So I'm giving it three stars.
• 44:48
  Speaker 3: Fair enough. Fair enough. I'll go next.
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: And I will say that, yes, I recognize the limitations.
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: There are things about this, the execution on this that
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: annoy me. And in a sense, it's like my favorite pulp, bad,
• 45:07
  Speaker 2: quote unquote, movie. But I will never stop watching it.
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: And it's not just nostalgia. I think that for all
• 45:15
  Speaker 2: of its flaws and for that air of anticipatory disappointment
• 45:21
  Speaker 2: Carpenter has going into a movie by this point, he's
• 45:25
  Speaker 2: still having some fun with it. Um, so I will
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: wind up giving it a three and a half. That
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: extra half is strictly for the fight scene. The fight
• 45:36
  Speaker 2: scene elevates the hell out of this movie because I
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: still make reference with friends and everything, you know, you're
• 45:45
  Speaker 2: going to do X or you're going to be wearing
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: that trash can, you know, like that's, that's a go-to
• 45:50
  Speaker 2: in my circle.
• 45:50
  Speaker 3: So three and a half for me.
• 45:55
  Speaker 4: No, I'm giving it a three as well.
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: It, you know, just looking back on the last hour,
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: we've had a lot of positive to say about it.
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: Definitely looking at the movie, there's no rose colored glasses
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: at all in this review. You know, we see the flaws,
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: we see the runtime, the, you know, the, story elements
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: that could have used more, but it's a fun ride.
• 46:19
  Speaker 4: It really is.
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: And I think they, they pull it off really well.
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: I would like to see a modern or an updated
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: retelling of this. I think you could, you know, do it,
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: make the story a little bigger, big enough to fill
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: an actual movie length of time. Uh, but yeah, I
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: give this a solid three. We'll probably put this into
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: my spooky season, uh, rewatch cycle next year.
• 46:48
  Speaker 2: At the very least, it's a lot of fun. So
• 46:50
  Speaker 2: that's it for us for House of Carpenter.
• 46:53
  Speaker 3: We might come back to Mr.
• 46:54
  Speaker 2: Carpenter at some point if I whine enough. But, you know,
• 46:59
  Speaker 2: we'll leave that for the future. But, Darren, what's coming up?
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: Well, next week, we have a special announcement. It's our
• 47:09
  Speaker 1: 300th episode here on House Light.
• 47:12
  Speaker 3: So, of course.
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: What movie must we watch? It's Zack Snyder's 300, next
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: on House Lights. Join the revolution.
• 47:26
  Speaker 4: Join the nerd party.