Latest / Life with Bitcoin / Suffering From Success: When Winning Is Not Enough | Brandon Hawk

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Suffering From Success: When Winning Is Not Enough | Brandon Hawk · Life with Bitcoin

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  You think Bitcoin's going to save you.
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  I thought tennis was going to save me, but really it didn't save me.
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  Tennis just became my greatest mirror.
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  Just like Bitcoin, the next frontier for people in Bitcoin is if they'll use Bitcoin as the
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  mirror inside of themselves to truly see themselves.
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  And the ones that do, oh wow, the ones that do, then they can partner with Bitcoin from
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  a true place of health and sovereignty and connection rather than for it.
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  Welcome to Live with Bitcoin, where we delve into the human side of Bitcoin by focusing
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  on Bitcoiners' personal transformations and life stories.
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  Thanks for tuning in.
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  If you like and want to support our mission on shining light on the human side of Bitcoin,
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  Remember to subscribe to this channel, leave a comment, or send a few thoughts.
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  I'll link in the description.
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  Today's conversation is really about the moment in life that you realize what you thought
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  would be enough isn't.
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  And what happens after you achieve something meaningful and still feel like there's something
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  more to uncover.
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  And today we'll be delving into these questions that may not be comfortable for many of the
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  people out there, including Bitcoiners.
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  Today we'll be doing this very special process with Brandon Huck.
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  Brandon Hawk is a former professional tennis player, formational coach, and author of the
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  best-selling book, You.
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  By the age of 21, he had already achieved his childhood dream, competing in the main
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  draw of Wimbledon and the US Open, before an injury brought that chapter of his life
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  to an early close.
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  What followed was a deep surge into the mind, human behavior, and spiritual traditions.
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  Today, his works intersect with Bitcoin space, increasingly, working with men who have built
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  real wealth but find themselves asking a different question. What comes next? His work is less about
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  achieving more and more about understanding what to do with the capacity that success and the
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  Bitcoin journey has already built. Welcome, Brandon, for joining us today. Thank you so much for having
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  me. I'm going to start from a perhaps uncomfortable question so that we dive right inside of your
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  story and the beginning of your journey in a way that led us to this conversation. You achieved your
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  childhood dream very early as a professional tennis player. That chapter closed early for you.
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  I'm curious what happened to a man when the things he built his identity around disappears,
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  especially for someone who's achieving that dream in the 20s. Yeah, it was, I mean, an identity
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  crisis, right? That's what I'd built my life upon ever since I was five years old, maybe even
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  younger. But man, I was going hard at tennis from a very early age. And my identity was wrapped up
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  in being a tennis player and winning and performing well and everything that came with that. And when
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  that ended, I was left with a real crossroads. And I think that's the biggest thing that tennis
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  gave me. It gave me the opportunity to have that identity crisis in my early days that I see a lot
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  of my clients have, you know, later on in life. And so I had the blessing of receiving that at a
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  very early age and was asked from the universe, what are you going to do with this? When we say
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  that there's an identity crisis going on, what does that mean? What did it mean for you? You know,
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  I can tell you when I had this dream as a little boy to play at Wimbledon, right?
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  And I'm from an early age, and I remember watching the 1989 Wimbledon final in my parents'
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  bedroom before we were going to church.
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  And, you know, when you have those moments, you're like, I'm going to do that someday.
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  Like you kind of have this vision of something that's possible, and maybe not yet, but you
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  have that divine moment.
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  I had one of those and I was like nine years old.
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  And then at the age of 21, I played at Wimbledon and I lost seven.
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  You know, I lost, I think it was 11-9 in the fifth set, right?
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  And I went back to my Wimbledon flat and it should have been like this great joyous moment, right?
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  Like I did it, I accomplished something.
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  I'm from a small town in Texas.
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  I'm the son of a bull rider, not a tennis player, but a professional bull rider.
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  couldn't be more opposite of tennis. And I felt all the pain in that moment, actually,
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  of emotional debt, all the years of bypassing how I feel to produce and to perform. In that moment,
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  I had to pay a debt. I had to feel all those feelings. I thought this moment was going to
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  do it for me, and it didn't. And in my world, we call that emotional debt. And you see a lot of
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  very successful individuals, whether you're a Bitcoiner and all of a sudden you look up and you
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  go, man, Bitcoin's at 125,000 and I've been in it since 2012. And I thought that when it hit this
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  mark, that was going to complete me. And then it didn't complete me. And now I'm left with
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  all the other stuff. I still have to deal with myself. And I work with celebrities or Fortune
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  500 executives and they all have these big moments, right? These Grammy moments. And then you're like,
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  the next day you read they're in jail or this has happened or something kind of catastrophic has
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  happened. It's because they don't know what to do with that, that, that, that emotional debt that
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  they have to pay in that moment or just, you know, how they feel, right? All the, all the feelings
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  come to the surface. When it seems like when you achieve your childhood dream, it didn't really
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  feel like freedom. And it was kind of the opposite of losing yourself in that process. So what was
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  the next thing you did after having that realization? I bet it must be quite painful for you to admit
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  that something still needs to be done. Yeah. You know, for me, I knew I was done with tennis at
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  that moment. I knew that I played two or three more years beyond that, but I knew that I knew
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  that I was done and that life had called me to something deeper. And I wanted to move in to start
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  asking the questions, you know, because what's most personal is most universal, right? And so if
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  I'm struggling with this, then it is, it's very universal for others that have experienced
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  success, but don't know how to navigate that emotional pain that comes up with, you know,
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  accomplishing your dreams or accomplishing your goals or that identity crisis or midlife,
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  I call it midlife breakthrough, midlife crisis. You know, that took me to a place of like,
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  I want to figure this out. And then what I realized is I couldn't figure it out. And I had to
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  feel through the emotion and go on my own journey of deconstruction and reconstruction.
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  And I believe that's common for a lot of young athletes when they really put in so much heart
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  and soul and really like blood and sweat in training on a daily basis. And I can tell,
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  or I can imagine how one's entire identity would be very very much linked to the sports and this is
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  something that they hold dear to it's something that they are really proud of themselves so for
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  yourself like how much of your own identity was tied to tennis at the time when you realized that
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  it's not for you and you said you keep playing for two or three years and without quitting just
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  just yet knowing that ultimately you need to be doing something else so what in that period what
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  What did that period ask of you emotionally and mentally?
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  I think it was definitely twofold.
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  Physically, I was in some misalignment, right?
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  So if your heart's not in it and you know you're done and then you're still asking your body to produce at the highest level,
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  that's when I really started to get injured because I was in some misalignment, right?
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  I was not fully in it emotionally, but my body, I was asking my body to cash some checks that emotionally I wasn't.
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  There wasn't money in the bank account for.
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  And so my body started to break down. So that started to happen, you know, physically. But then I felt like I was being prepared emotionally for actually quitting. It kind of took me two to three years to like go through this deep emotional process of surrender and letting go that almost like two years of death.
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  I had to feel the feelings of that part of me dying.
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  I'd have moments of, okay, I'm ready to surrender it.
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  And then I'm like, no, I'm going to hold on tight and I'm going to give it another go.
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  And then I would let go.
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  And so I had a couple of years of wrestling with the angel.
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  You see that in the Bible, right?
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  There's a wrestling with the angel and there's coming out the other side, you receive a new name.
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  I was kind of in that place of trying to find my new name.
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  Hell, I can totally relate to that process a lot.
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  I've personally gone through that process many times.
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  Right now, we're entering in a time where it's not going to be a choice anymore.
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  It's going to be we don't have options but to align ourselves.
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  Otherwise, our body will break down when we're in a disaligned environment or disaligned state of mind.
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  So I definitely resonate with you there.
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  and i know there's a lot of people who are going through that wrestling phase right now even like
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  into this world they want to be starting something or they want to be quitting something but that
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  conviction is just not there yet and they go through that wrestling period as well and that
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  can be ranging from two weeks to two decades right like depending on who you are for for you
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  personally how much of that wrestling was from fear like how much was that now you think about
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  it was like fear-based? Oh, I mean, a lot, a lot of it was, uh, you know, that push was out of
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  my need for approval. Right. And I got, I received love from my dad through performing and playing
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  well and winning and a great athlete gave me connection with him because that was his passion.
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  And so there was a lot of love, approval, you know, built into how well I performed.
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  So in my programming, if I performed well, then I was worthy of receiving love.
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  I was worthy of receiving connection.
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  And so, yeah, I had to really reprogram myself, right?
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  It was a this this identity process was a reprogramming of of of how I received love and how I received connection, how I received approval.
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  And and it had to become an inside job.
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  I had to learn to start receiving that not from my performance or winning, but but just because of being me.
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  You nailed it. It was from fear to love. Right.
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  And from scarcity to abundance to, right, you know, leaving the world of performing for value.
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  I call it performing for value.
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  That's where I was to performing from value.
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  What's the difference between the two?
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  Well, one is for something, right, in the future.
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  If I perform well, then it'll happen in the future.
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  And then one is from already feeling valuable.
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  this is the this is the coming from abundance that we talk about in in manifestation like the
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  number one trick of manifestation is that it's not about wanting it enough it's about considering
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  it done that's right and then the considering it done mentality is very much of coming from
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  abundance coming from a place of value coming from a place of a lot of source of love and light
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  So that you are overflowing these abundance to share with everyone, to attract more abundance instead of, oh, I'm lacking abundance.
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  So I'm seeking, I'm pursuing, and I'm chasing.
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  So these are completely two mentalities.
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  That's right.
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  That's right.
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  And we're talking at my world from force to power, right, internal power.
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  And here's the hard part with that.
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  I think we can go here.
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  You're such a deep person, and I can feel your depth.
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  So this is in this part, this is what I started to see. It's one thing to tell someone to, okay, you got to feel it first and you've got to feel it inside of yourself to produce it, right? And it has to come from you, not outside of you. But here's the hard part with that. To actually feel abundance, you have to also be willing to feel the lack and because you can't selectively open.
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  So if you to actually heal your heart and you going to tap into this emotional component that beyond your old identity you have to be open to not just the joy and the abundance and the bliss You have to also be open to the pain That so yeah Right And so a lot of my identity was built around avoiding pain
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  And so now I'm having to go, wow, everything I did was to avoid pain.
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  But now you're saying the pain is the gateway.
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  The pain and the tension, the lack, the scarcity is the gateway in.
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  Right.
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  You know, I see this with a lot of my Bitcoin clients, right? I have these OG Bitcoiners that I coach now. That's what's brought me into the Bitcoin world. And, you know, they've achieved this insane amount of success because they were early adopters. And what I started to see, they're just like my athletes that I work with.
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  They have accomplished so much, but they still feel like they're that person that's a fighter and having to fight for something.
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  Or they still feel like that little boy or that little girl that's scared or doesn't have a lot of money.
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  And so they have all this success, but at an emotional level, they still feel scarcity.
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  So what do you do with that?
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  It's called the gap, right?
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  We have to close the gap.
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  Scarcity is such a common or such a well-received concept. There's always this concept of scarcity
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  somewhere. And then in the world, we're very used to scarcity. We say that resources are scarce and
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  our time is scarce. And there's a lot of fear-based things going on in there. And I feel like a lot
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  of people are on that journey. They're on the journey of self-love. And by now, it's a little
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  cliche to say self-love even when everybody know it but don't know how to do it so the question here
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  is that sometimes a sentiment i hear is that oh i know self-love i want to do that but i can't so
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  as humans we we are we have two we have many sides right we have the rational brain and then we have
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  the emotional side of us and sometimes we can rationally understand something and say i know
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  smoking is bad for me. I know that I shouldn't be staying up late or I know I shouldn't shouldn't do
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  this or that because it's bad for my house, my mood or whatever. But emotionally, we can't stop
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  ourselves where we can't really go there to do the things that we know are good for us. So in this
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  case of self-love, when you are really in the ditch, like when you're really in the darkness,
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  looking for that deconstruction of identity so that you can heal and for self-love, but we just
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  can't bring ourselves to it? Like, where's the gap for you? I think that that was beautifully said.
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  And that is what I do, right? The closing of that gap, which is from the head to the heart.
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  And one thing to have the information, let's just take a concept that's in Bitcoin, right?
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  Sovereignty, okay? There's one thing to have the mental ideal and the information of sovereignty.
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  there's another thing to embody sovereignty. There's another thing to actually feel it inside
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  of you that you are sovereign. No matter what happens to the Bitcoin price, no matter what
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  happens outside of you, that you feel sovereign and powerful. You feel that inside of your body.
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  And so we talk about embodiment a lot. It has to go from the head to just information or knowledge,
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  And it has to go into a place where it is actually embodied and you feel that.
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  That's that for to from process.
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  And I have a process called the pit, right?
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  People in transition.
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  And there's four real distinct stages in someone closing that gap or transitioning.
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  And I also see great leaders have to go through that process when they're deconstructing and
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  reconstructing.
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  Bitcoin also is going through that process as well as a technology, right?
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  And as a movement. And so, yeah, that's a that's a process that's come out of my own my own transformation.
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  That's very clear that all people have to go through. And so we can dive into that or not, but that there are real clear, distinct stages in that process of embodiment.
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  For sure. I'm let's dive into this later, because I'm really interested in learning in people's decision making.
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  you take touch points right like sometimes if they eventually do something like yourself you
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  eventually quit tennis and that's not an overnight decision and you have to go through the whole
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  process of deconstructing yourself and review yourself and heal self-love all that like all
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  that jazz to finally come to the next stage of your life so i'm all for the change right and
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  myself i'm obsessed with that spark where electricity becomes fire and that transformation
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  It seems like you've kind of decided that you want to be doing something else other than tennis already before you got injured.
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  And then I guess by the time you started to get more like physically warm because of that disalignment, how did the decision making finally take place?
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  Was that voluntary?
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  It was.
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  I'd gotten married to my high school sweetheart.
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  We both we got married early.
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  I think I was 23.
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  She was, you know, and I was supposed to go to the Australian Open to play a couple tournaments and then the qualifying of the Australian Open.
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  And in December, Australian Opens in January.
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  I got married in December and I was just said, I'm not going.
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  I'm done.
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  I'm going to the shock of my wife.
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  You know, I think she had dreams of traveling the world with me, right?
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  I said, no, I'm done.
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  And I could feel it was over.
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  It was like that season had ended and now I moved into a new season of my life and I could feel it.
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  I'm a generator in human design.
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  And so I didn't have the energy backing me.
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  And so it was over.
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  And during my tennis time, I've been since I was a little boy, a student of spirituality.
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  I've been a student of transformation.
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  I even did a lot of public speaking to like high schools and different things of motivational type speaking.
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  That was a part of something that I was already cultivating in my life.
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  And so I started to see an on-ramp for me in the religious world.
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  That's where I grew up.
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  So I only knew how to give that gift really inside of a religious context.
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  And so I started to see that, OK, I could make this jump into being a pastor or being a spiritual type teacher.
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  And that's its own process within itself.
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  But that's that's what it started for me.
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  My father owned a manufacturing plant.
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  I did some I could play a role in that company while I was cultivating my
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  my gift as a speaker and as a teacher.
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  And I did both of those things.
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  I was worked for him and then also I started pastoring as well.
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  Why? Why the spiritual route?
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  Because from from you could be doing many things after a professional tennis career.
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  Exactly.
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  Being a pastor.
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  That's a really good question. That's a very good question. I had the world open to me and I chose that route, right? And, you know, I think it was a safe place for me to start to deconstruct myself.
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  And while still giving my gift and doing something impactful and starting to maybe prepare for another career or another way to, yeah, yeah, live out my, live out my purpose.
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  And it was, you know, working for my dad and then also doing this pastoring thing.
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  It gave me a chance to really personally deconstruct and then also study, right?
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  study what was going on inside of me to I spent the next, you know, five, six, seven years in deep,
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  like study of all things transformational and all things personal growth and all things, even
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  even the biblical process of that. Yeah, that was that was the journey. I feel like my
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  deconstruction was more important than my professional success. Is that right?
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  I think ultimately everybody should land on this conclusion for them to be real sovereign,
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  for them to be taking responsibility of their own agency, of their own uniqueness, originality,
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  to say, now I'm going to invest in myself and do something with it.
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  What's special for you is that you already knew to seek guidance from God or from spiritual
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  guidance.
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  Yeah.
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  From a spiritual background where just found you on your path.
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  No, I grew up in a religious, spiritual home. And so that was a part of the framework that I grew up in. And I grew up in a, you know, my parents were leaders at a Christian church locally. And so that was a part of my framework.
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  The hard part of my framework was reconciling some of those things with traveling all over the world at the age of 12 years old and being in India for a month and being in China for a month and being in South America.
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  And like tennis is so international, one of the greatest gifts was the gift of travel at an early age.
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  So I started to see that, OK, some of these frameworks that are regional maybe don't play out at a very corporate or global level.
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  And so that was also a part of my deconstruction was reconciling some of those beliefs and frameworks that I'd been given at an early age and finding my own belief system, finding my own sovereignty.
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  What do I believe?
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  Yeah, I think probably one of my proudest moments of myself looking back was not capitalizing on my tennis success to just, you know, avoid how I feel to create more success somewhere else.
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  yeah and like I said I had that experience I knew that the success wasn't going to complete me so I
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  was able to pull from that okay if Wimbledon didn't do it being a tennis commentator or being a you
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  know doing something you know a little bit more out in the in the spotlight and limelight that's
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  not going to do it for me and so I was proud of myself that I didn't take the bait and that I went
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  inward rather than outward wow kudos to you I can I can see how it could be a bait indeed because
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  you had all these amazing experience and achievement and there will be many many paths
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  back then would be available for you would have led to you to have a completely different life
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  perhaps yes almost guaranteed so it seems like when you were making the shift from 10s to more
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  what were you actually searching you know these years trying to get out of get out of 10s get
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  into pastoring like what is the thing you were trying to search at the time through these
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  initiatives for yourself? You know, such a great question. The search inside of me, like, you know,
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  man's search for meaning, right? And I was searching for, you know, the meaning within myself,
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  my own sovereignty, my own power. I was searching for all of that. And, you know, ultimately I was
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  searching for connection and love and not connection outside of myself, not love outside of
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  myself, but like real love and connection inside of myself. And, you know, to do that, I had to
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  deconstruct and go through some of the emotional pain that I felt as a child and some of my own
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  trauma. And that took me deep into trauma work. Right. And then I started to really go through a
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  lot of trauma healing processes with inside of myself. I started to teach some of those processes.
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  I started to take people through those same processes that I was going through. But yeah,
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  Yeah. Some of the pain for sure, healing that pain inside of my heart.
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  Yeah.
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  And then coming out the other side to like a place of actually loving myself and then a place of like sovereignty with, you know, personal sovereignty.
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  And that came from a lot of different experiences and moments.
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  But that was the journey that I was on for sure.
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  Self-love is one of my favorite topics to discuss on this podcast.
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  It's so crucial in everything we want to do in life.
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  You can't get around it.
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  And sometimes you feel like, I don't have to think about this.
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  But no, it applies to literally everyone.
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  You're absolutely right.
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  We should be seeking love no elsewhere from within.
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  Because that's how we can extend the most love to ourselves and extend the most love to the world.
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  the world. Myself has gone through that process of developing that self-love and to work through
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  that trauma to the point where you very centered and you very grounded and then your circumstances where your life can be more fluid around you how i describe the how we ground ourselves is that once we do the shadow work once we healed we more
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  loved um from within then it's really like standing in the river you're you're standing in the river
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  with your your feet on the ground so that your your weight like pulls you down just from your
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  heart and then the water no matter what happens around you they will just flow through you without
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  changing without having to take you away from where you are and if we are acting from fear acting
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  from a place of trauma i feel like we're just sitting on the ring on the water and you're on
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  the surface level so there's to be a really calm wave that comes and then you can be totally falling
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  from the ring and then in the water and start drowning so the the the self-love component it's
• 26:52
  so crucial. What I was contemplating for self-love, one thing is that you can't give
• 26:57
  unconditional love. You haven't received unconditional love. And I want to ask you if
• 27:04
  that's true. Yeah, you know, kudos to you on your journey. I just feel so inspired by you because
• 27:09
  you get it. And obviously, you've gone through a lot of these processes right within yourself.
• 27:15
  And I can totally see that. So that's beautiful to see. You know, I think in that time of
• 27:21
  study, I started to see, you know, in the Bible, Jesus would say stuff like, you can't, you know,
• 27:27
  you can only love another as much as you love yourself. And then the call was to like enemy
• 27:33
  love. Like what good is it to love someone who loves you back? The way that they know that you're
• 27:38
  a follower of my path or my way is by how you not love those that love you, but love those that
• 27:43
  persecute you. So really it's like loving your enemies. And I'm like, oh my gosh, loving our
• 27:49
  enemies is the call, but we can't do that if we can't love the enemy within, right? We can't,
• 27:55
  you know, such a high call to love our enemies. And what I started to see in Christianity was there
• 28:00
  was actually not a love of the enemies. It was like a more of a violence towards people who
• 28:05
  disagreed or didn't think the same way. And I was like, where is that coming from? That's a breakdown.
• 28:11
  That's not in alignment with the teaching. And so what I started to see is people could only give
• 28:17
  the amount of love that they felt for themselves. And so if I'm going to align myself to enemy love,
• 28:23
  I have to be able to love all parts of me. I've got to love the parts of me that are great,
• 28:29
  but I also have to love the parts of me that aren't. And I had to start to go to those places
• 28:34
  of unconditional love for all parts of myself so that I could give that. Because you can't give what
• 28:42
  you haven't received. And here's the hard part. We call this in my world, the tension of receiving,
• 28:49
  because we all grew up with a certain level of love that feels familiar. This is what love feels
• 28:55
  like. Love feels like winning tennis tournaments and you get love. That's what love is, right?
• 29:00
  And so what all I could give out to others was that same love. If you perform well,
• 29:06
  then I can really love you. Well, that's very not unconditional. That's very conditional love.
• 29:12
  So conditional love was very familiar to me. So to change that inside of myself, I had to go through what I call the tension of receiving something bigger and deeper than what I grew up with. And so think about it. Somebody gives you a compliment, right? And like, man, you're such a great speaker. You're such a, you're an amazing podcast host. And you're just, you're so good at what you do.
• 29:37
  It's so easy for us to what? Because of that tension of love that is being transferred, we can't handle that. So we end up going what? We end up going, no, you're great too. And you and you and you and you're the best and you're awesome. And it's like because we can't hold or handle that level of love. Because what does love do inside of us?
• 29:59
  love eradicates fear. So when love comes in and it sounds good, but it also dismantles the parts
• 30:09
  inside of us that are built out of fear. And so it can feel transcending and elevating your love
• 30:15
  for yourself, learning to love yourself unconditionally rattles the parts of us that
• 30:21
  receive love conditionally. Right. And that's hard, right? Because it's very unfamiliar to have
• 30:26
  someone now give you unconditional love feels very unfamiliar. Yeah, yeah, totally. And it totally,
• 30:33
  totally makes people scared and question a bunch of things. And I totally agree because
• 30:38
  unconditional love, this is something I've contemplated for years. I've heard people say
• 30:43
  it under different contexts. And many people I know, many people know that I'm also a singer-songwriter,
• 30:49
  Labie Rumi. Just recently, I released a song called Blonde Night that speaks to exactly that
• 30:56
  because two of the lyrics, two lines, it says, do you love me for my merits? Do you love me despite?
• 31:03
  I feel like this comes back to discernment too. Like we as the receiver needs to learn to discern,
• 31:10
  are you loving me for you or are you loving me for me? Because there's a difference, right?
• 31:15
  And oftentimes when people love us for them, it's oftentimes fear-based. There's some sort of
• 31:22
  fear-based things going on about themselves where they're traumatized in whatever way where they're
• 31:28
  projecting one thing or another onto us and the love they've extended to us sometimes can be
• 31:34
  disguised as unconditional even but they're really not it was really to fulfill some sort of fear-based
• 31:41
  expectations there were do you love me from my mirrors do you love me despite is really about
• 31:47
  You know, like, do you love me performance based or you love me regardless?
• 31:51
  That's wow. What depth there. That's that's awesome that asking those questions, right?
• 31:57
  Even in your music, those were the questions I was asking. I'm not music. I love music, but I'm not musical as a person.
• 32:04
  But my art was also my art of crafting processes and communication.
• 32:09
  And I was creating some of that music, right, myself by asking that.
• 32:15
  And what I discovered, there's four stages of love and we attract people based on what stage of love that we're in.
• 32:22
  And so if you're in the second stage, which is conditional love, you're going to attract people, future partners, potential mates, you know, business partners on that same frequency.
• 32:34
  And so that's what the hard part is. I work with people that, you know, they're maybe looking for a partner that's in the third stage, which is unconditional love, but they're still in conditional love. That's how they give and receive love.
• 32:51
  And so they can't find their partner because the people they attract on conditional love, they don't want to marry them or they don't want, you know, and vice versa.
• 33:00
  But they haven't transcended into unconditional love.
• 33:04
  And so, yeah, those stages of love are so important to go through and transcend into.
• 33:09
  Right. And sounds like you've been on that journey.
• 33:12
  For sure. And if we think about frequency matching makes total sense.
• 33:17
  You can't find and maintain unconditional love even if you find that person if yourself is not ready to receive.
• 33:24
  Even if you get together for whatever reason, it's just not sustainable.
• 33:28
  Because people who can give unconditional love, they would want more in their partner too.
• 33:35
  That's right.
• 33:35
  You need to be at each other's wavelength to make a relationship work.
• 33:41
  So it's oftentimes we have to return to that shadow work, return to all of the trauma and healing before we can really make changes in our life.
• 33:51
  And that speaks to your program and what your work in the Bitcoin industry and beyond helping people who have realized that gap in their lives to really optimize more for themselves emotionally, physically and mentally.
• 34:05
  Just have to live a better life, like more loved, more connected.
• 34:08
  And I know that a lot of people, especially so in the Bitcoin world, because in Bitcoin, a lot of Bitcoiners found Bitcoin via a lot of the trauma, via a lot of the anger that they feel towards the fiat society or just different circumstances in their lives.
• 34:27
  They are the people who did not follow the herd.
• 34:30
  They took risk.
• 34:32
  They held conviction.
• 34:34
  They can thin, rain or shine.
• 34:36
  And in many ways, they were right.
• 34:38
  Yeah, that's why we're here. But there's always this moment after that. And as you mentioned, the current demographic, you work in the Bitcoin space, they have been, they have made it in a way like they have been wealthy. They've been in the space long enough and they have been enough of a sack so that they're financially free. We're going towards that. And for your experience and your experience with your clients, what do you see happening in a man after he's already won?
• 35:05
  Yeah, I mean, that's a great question. I was talking about it. I spoke at a Bitcoin conference. I just came back from there and I was talking to the crowd about this exact thing, right? There's in this process that Bitcoin's gone on and Bitcoiners have gone on from joke, right? You know, they were a joke and then they were a threat. And now they're emerging as leader.
• 35:29
  and this is the stage.
• 35:32
  From threat to leader is the toughest jump
• 35:35
  because it's no longer about fighting or force.
• 35:39
  It's now about embodiment and you can't fake embodiment.
• 35:43
  And so a lot of these guys, they made their money through fight.
• 35:47
  Now they've made it, there's nothing to fight
• 35:49
  and they're not wanting to fight anymore.
• 35:51
  So when I get with these individuals in this process
• 35:56
  to where they've made it, right?
• 35:58
  Like I said earlier, there is now a new identity that's wanting to emerge from them.
• 36:04
  And there's a new programming that's wanting to be installed.
• 36:08
  And the hard part is the program got them to hear the old program, but now it's not working anymore.
• 36:16
  And they're like, I have so much money and I have a lot of success, but I'm still operating from an old programming.
• 36:24
  Oh my gosh, this feels awful.
• 36:27
  And the quality of our emotions, right, determines the quality of our life. And so that process that we go on is really an emotional process. And I love the word emotion, energy in motion. It's energy in motion that we're having to retrain inside of ourselves.
• 36:46
  And it's beautiful to see beautiful to see these Bitcoiners to go, man, you know, I'm willing to risk everything to now personalize this inside of myself and really willing to take that jump to go, OK, Bitcoin produced some great things for me, but it didn't save me from myself.
• 37:07
  myself. You think Bitcoin is going to save you? I thought tennis was going to save me,
• 37:14
  but really it didn't save me. Tennis just became my greatest mirror, just like Bitcoin. Bitcoin now
• 37:21
  for those individuals, it's such a strong energy. It's now become such a strong mirror for people to
• 37:28
  see themselves. And the next frontier for people in Bitcoin is if they'll use Bitcoin as the great
• 37:35
  mirror inside of themselves to truly see themselves and the ones that do oh wow the ones that do then
• 37:42
  they can partner with bitcoin from a from a true place of health and sovereignty and connection
• 37:47
  rather than for it right rather than a future reality yeah and it's it's beautiful to see
• 37:54
  these individuals take that jump and i love being a part of it for sure and this is the this is the
• 37:59
  the sole reason why Live with Bitcoin exists. And this podcast existed since 2020, starting
• 38:05
  from that time, because I was already feeling like, you guys are wealthy and all, but you
• 38:11
  don't look happy. And then I'm like, we need some content that can bring people to see
• 38:16
  the positive side of Bitcoin and not bore them or intimidate them with all of the technology
• 38:22
  so that we introduce people on the ground of love, on the ground of being more loved
• 38:27
  and connected. And it's amazing to see many Bitcoiners are making that shift. So my question
• 38:32
  here, what I'm really curious to hear is that we know how Bitcoiners, some of them are like they're,
• 38:38
  they can be very, very sure of themselves. Let's put it that way. So if you encounter a Bitcoiner
• 38:46
  and you are somehow having a conversation and you can clearly tell that they're kind of
• 38:51
  struggling inside and with their trauma and need to do some shadow work. If you were to have this
• 38:57
  conversation with them like how do you push through that pushback so that they on board with doing something like the program and committing to work on themselves in the way that you introduce them
• 39:09
  Because we can be wanting to love ourselves, wanting to improve, but not, right?
• 39:15
  That's right.
• 39:16
  The journey for all of us is like we have to be, you know, I have a mentor that says, whatever medicine it is, don't take the medicine unless the medicine is calling you.
• 39:25
  And for some people, this message isn't calling them yet, right? They're not in a place of
• 39:34
  awareness or in a frequency where this message resonates with them. They're still stuck in that
• 39:40
  mental, strong mental energy and that identity, right? That strong identity. To break them out
• 39:46
  of that, that's an intense confront. But I've gotten out of the game of trying to
• 39:54
  confront or convince those guys because there's so many people that are ready for the medicine,
• 40:00
  if that makes sense. There is a sliver of openness that they're like, okay,
• 40:04
  this identity structure is not producing what I want it to produce anymore. I am now open to a
• 40:10
  deeper conversation around the soul of Bitcoin. And that's what you're doing. You're talking about
• 40:16
  the heart of Bitcoin, the soul of Bitcoin here. And for those people, there's always a sliver of
• 40:22
  resonance. And I can find that sliver of resonance through how they feel and true honesty around.
• 40:32
  I was at a Bitcoin meetup with one of my clients. He took me to, I think it was a SWAN event,
• 40:38
  right? And with high net worth individuals. And I was there with him and all these guys were
• 40:44
  gathered around and I asked them, I said, at what number will it finally, will you finally feel like
• 40:52
  you didn't? What number will you finally feel approved of? What number will you finally feel
• 41:00
  like, like, oh, this did it. I finally feel okay. And did you know that none of them could answer
• 41:05
  me. And we had a great laugh about it. It was very funny. Well, it probably will never will.
• 41:10
  Right. And what it revealed was, you know, these guys have been in since, you know, it was it was three hundred, five hundred dollars.
• 41:16
  And now it's, you know, at that point it was at one hundred and ten, I think it was one hundred and ten thousand a coin.
• 41:21
  And it had gone from there to there and they still couldn't feel it.
• 41:26
  Yeah. Right. Yeah.
• 41:28
  And so there are people that have experienced that pain or that that that that tension so much.
• 41:37
  They're open to, right, okay, let's have a new conversation.
• 41:42
  For sure.
• 41:43
  And oftentimes it's really, really about your perspective, looking at the thing instead of the thing itself, right?
• 41:49
  And being a lot of big winners in early stage, and I've talked to a number of people who have lost the majority of their coins from like early days.
• 41:58
  Yeah.
• 41:58
  And I've seen people reacted in different ways.
• 42:03
  Some of them, it really freed them.
• 42:05
  Yeah.
• 42:06
  I've lost 80% of my stack.
• 42:10
  And now I realize I should be spending every day
• 42:12
  till I die to do what I love.
• 42:14
  And through that, they found freedom
• 42:17
  versus some stories are less fortunate.
• 42:20
  The coin were lost.
• 42:21
  And then over the course of years and even decade,
• 42:25
  and there's a lot of cried over spilled wine energy.
• 42:29
  And I couldn't have been doing this.
• 42:31
  I could have been doing that.
• 42:32
  It's a terrible place to be.
• 42:33
  It's a terrible place to be.
• 42:34
  And I witness and my heart aches for them.
• 42:38
  So a program like yours is so valuable for us to kind of get in touch with ourselves if you're not able to do it on your own time or in your own method.
• 42:48
  Because it's not that obvious.
• 42:49
  And sometimes it's very intimidating and painful to go there voluntarily.
• 42:55
  And we need someone to be holding us accountable.
• 42:59
  That's the truth.
• 43:00
  We need two things I tell people.
• 43:04
  We need access to someone who's gone through that process.
• 43:07
  Okay.
• 43:07
  Access is so key to duplication.
• 43:11
  And so you have to have access to someone who's done it, who's gone through a deep level of transition, who's transitioned and who's gone through the deconstruction and reconstruction.
• 43:22
  And then you have to have a container of accountability.
• 43:25
  Right.
• 43:26
  Because we're talking about, you know, doing things that your mind wants to say, no, don't do it.
• 43:32
  Right.
• 43:32
  I've worked with Navy SEALs, SEAL Team 6, and they said they'd rather go door to door in Afghanistan than to actually deconstruct and go into their feelings.
• 43:41
  So that shows you the intensity of going in.
• 43:45
  They would rather go into something unknown where their actual physical life is on the line than go into how they feel.
• 43:52
  So you need accountability in that process because especially in the beginning, it's a muscle that we don't know how to use.
• 44:00
  right? I call it emotional fitness. And so most people, high achievers are emotionally weak.
• 44:06
  And so to get into this emotional process, they do need access and they need accountability big
• 44:13
  time. I have a client that's, he was an executive at Wells Fargo, but one of the early guys in
• 44:19
  Bitcoin. And what he started to see in his life was, okay, first he sees I'm working my day job
• 44:26
  over here, but this is what I truly believe, right? You couldn't be more opposite, right?
• 44:31
  If executive here at this big bank, and then you're a massive holder of Bitcoin. So that
• 44:36
  automatically reveals the tension. And then he made that jump to quitting his job and finally
• 44:44
  feeling the power of what he had created within himself and his Bitcoin stack. But what he started
• 44:50
  to see was that very stack that he had created actually became bondage because he wasn't even
• 44:56
  able to release it or let go of it or even, God forbid, use a little bit of it to take his family
• 45:03
  on a magical vacation or to, right, it was something that was even more important. The
• 45:10
  Bitcoin was even more important, excuse me, than his family. It was more important than,
• 45:19
  And so his role as a quote unquote maxi, his identity as a Bitcoin maxi now was actually not a place of freedom, but now a place of bondage.
• 45:31
  It was a place of bondage because it wasn't even like he had it because it was, I can't even use it and I only have to keep it here.
• 45:40
  So feel that his wife and his kids didn't feel the goodness of what he had created.
• 45:47
  They only felt what the lack because he could not even use the wealth that he created to invest now into his family or first to himself.
• 45:59
  OK, and then into his family. And so that's the liberation.
• 46:04
  The liberation is is not allowing that thing to, you know, tennis was now bondage for me.
• 46:10
  It was now a place of suppression.
• 46:12
  But now to like from the inside out, now can he actually use the very thing, Bitcoin, as a source of what?
• 46:21
  Of abundance with himself and with his family.
• 46:24
  And so that's been a beautiful process to see him go from the very thing that now is becoming a place of like bondage and heaviness to actually liberating himself and utilizing this thing called Bitcoin for freedom and connection within his family.
• 46:43
  He had to go through some real shifts inside of his own heart and head to do that, right?
• 46:47
  Totally against the grain for what he had been pushing for for 12 years.
• 46:52
  And you just reminded me, and like oftentimes we say that in Bitcoin, you have to rethink what is
• 46:58
  money and rethink what is your relationship with money. And from your story, it seems like it's not
• 47:03
  really about relationship with money. It's about relationship with love. What do you prioritize in
• 47:08
  life, right? Like, do you prioritize your relationship with your wife, your kids, your family?
• 47:13
  And do you utilize the resource to create memory to reach the experience of your priorities in life?
• 47:21
  And, and, but to answer all these questions, we have to be honest and, and do the shadow work and all of the things that we talked about.
• 47:29
  I love the phrase you used of emotional fitness.
• 47:31
  And what I've, what I've realized is that oftentimes we have to be emotionally fit for us to be physically fit.
• 47:39
  Yeah.
• 47:39
  That's the alignment you were talking about.
• 47:41
  And I'll share a personal story here.
• 47:43
  I've, I've always been a chubby kid.
• 47:45
  I've always been a chubby kid growing up.
• 47:47
  I was, you know, like growing up in this generation in the place where they criticize body image a lot and then people care about it.
• 47:55
  And I've always had this relationship with food that I thought it was my relationship with food, with my lifestyle.
• 48:01
  But really, it was about my relationship with love and how in my brain the relationship with food and love and they're intertwined somehow and with comfort, with trauma.
• 48:12
  So all of these things combined together that made me the person I was.
• 48:19
  And then once the journey begins, once the self-love really start to kick in and make me more sovereign emotionally,
• 48:27
  then I get to develop a different relationship with my diet, different relationship with my schedule on a daily basis.
• 48:34
  And I can actually bring myself to take care of myself.
• 48:39
  Awesome.
• 48:40
  now because before it was it was very difficult in the form of sometimes like right now if i have
• 48:46
  12 minutes in the morning i would do tai chi okay before the calls and sometimes i genuinely don't
• 48:51
  have that 12 minutes like when i wake up and things start to to come up but before i would
• 48:57
  i would realize myself really struggling to to do it even though i have all the time in the world
• 49:04
  in the morning to do it i know it's 12 minutes i know it's not anything intense i wouldn't be
• 49:09
  restless afterwards, eating a shower or whatever. And I just couldn't bring myself to do it.
• 49:16
  Knowing that it's good for me. Right. So it's really once we develop that emotional fitness
• 49:22
  and we can bring ourselves to these actions to make physical changes in the physical world that
• 49:29
  help us help our relationship be in a better place. And a lot of it I recognized was because
• 49:35
  I was kind of not trying not wanting to cave in because of my own ego.
• 49:40
  Sometimes you would want you would say, I don't want to say I'm wrong because I don't want to be wrong.
• 49:46
  Right. And I don't want to be admitting that I have issues or I have trauma.
• 49:50
  And I bet you would encounter that in your conversation with clients where you would reach out to them and you would get in a conversation and they just don't believe they're traumatized.
• 49:59
  human in general, but I guess in your case, you work mostly with men. How much of the trauma or
• 50:06
  the pain that were self-induced due to something like ego? Yeah, I think there is some of it. Ego
• 50:14
  is, you know, a protection mechanism for the pain and I call it mental protectionism. So mental
• 50:21
  protectionism is a, and you see a lot of Bitcoiners, they've got a lot of mental protectionism
• 50:26
  And it protects them from what? The pain, the emotional pain. And so they really bulk up the mental. Just like an athlete, an athlete bulks up. I try to win a lot. That was my form. I'm going to win, win, win, win, win and have a lot of trophies and a lot of success. But that was what? That was to cover up how I feel.
• 50:46
  Okay. And mental protectionism is real, right? It's strong and it's ego. I love the term edging ego, edging God out, right? And ego is defined by I am what I have, I am what I do, and I am what other people think.
• 51:02
  And letting go of that structure, I am what I have, I am what I do, right? I am how many Bitcoins I have, I am what I do, I am what other people think. That is a big part of this process is letting go of those, yeah, those ways of connection and tapping into, no, I'm not what I have. I'm not how good of a tennis player I am. I'm not what other people think about me. I'm not my reputation. I'm so much more.
• 51:31
  And finding that part of us is such a beautiful process and such a beautiful journey to going beyond ego.
• 51:38
  And then there's a place of partnering with ego.
• 51:41
  Ego is there, right?
• 51:42
  It's a part of us.
• 51:44
  And letting the ego become the servant but not the master, where we get in trouble when it becomes the master.
• 51:52
  But it's always going to be there, but it needs to be serving your highest self versus the other way around.
• 52:01
  For sure.
• 52:01
  For sure.
• 52:02
  When we think about how the transformation
• 52:04
  place and you you mentioned that it's it's not your job right it's not your job it's not what you do
• 52:10
  it's uh not performance based yeah so what when you work with your clients and hopefully transform
• 52:17
  them from the performance based mentality to something alternative like what is that alternative
• 52:22
  yeah we call it from performance it's a relational based right it's from we can call it fear to love
• 52:28
  we can call it performance to connection performance to relationship you know there's you even see
• 52:34
  company, I work with a lot of corporations, right? And they go, they're wanting to make the shift in
• 52:37
  culture from a performance-based culture to a relational-based culture. Okay. But to do that
• 52:44
  is tough because you have to relate to your, like, like relationship is the, is relating to yourself
• 52:51
  well, right? You, if you don't relate to yourself well, and you don't have a great relationship with
• 52:57
  self, you're not going to have a great relationship with others. Beautiful part of this process is
• 53:02
  when someone starts to create a really safe and loving relationship within themselves,
• 53:08
  right?
• 53:08
  And they start to make relationship with themselves, all parts of themselves, the things outside
• 53:14
  of them change.
• 53:15
  Okay.
• 53:15
  And what I mean by that, their relationship with food changes, their relationship with
• 53:20
  their religion changes, their relationship with alcohol changes, their relationship with
• 53:24
  Bitcoin changes.
• 53:26
  Okay.
• 53:26
  Right.
• 53:27
  And so I love seeing that.
• 53:29
  I love seeing someone and because they have changed their relationship with certain things outside of themselves now become different.
• 53:38
  Right. And I'm I've got guys that come to me and they have a lot of different, you know, they've medicated their pain through different forms, whether it be alcohol or whatever that is, you know, food addiction.
• 53:49
  I don't focus on the behavior because I understand that when they start to create a great relationship with themselves through starting to love all parts of themselves and go through this process, their relationship with that food or that alcohol is going to change.
• 54:05
  They're not going to need it anymore to medicate the pain or to soothe themselves because now they know how to soothe themselves or now they know how to deal with the pain themselves without having to medicate that.
• 54:18
  And so that's a beautiful part of this process is like for me, my relationship with the religion of my youth and that denomination changed.
• 54:28
  Why did it change?
• 54:29
  I changed.
• 54:30
  Okay.
• 54:30
  Yeah, for sure.
• 54:31
  You remind me of what I read about addiction.
• 54:35
  I can't remember if it's either from Jordan Peterson or Dr. Gabriel Mate about when we are dealing with addiction, we shouldn't be dealing with the substance.
• 54:47
  It's always we should be dealing with the comfort, the need, the substance is trying to meet.
• 54:53
  Like when you're drinking, maybe you're seeking comfort.
• 54:56
  Maybe you're seeking like understanding.
• 54:58
  Maybe you're just trying to forget about it.
• 55:00
  You're taking a avoidant approach, escapism in something, but the needs are still there.
• 55:07
  And then when we talk about addiction, we need to focus on the needs that are unmet.
• 55:10
  And then the substance addiction would likely go away. We're much easier to cope once we get the needs sorted, basically.
• 55:20
  Yeah, that's right. I mean, I see guys, because they don't know how to handle the tension inside of themselves, they're scrolling on Twitter about Bitcoin all day.
• 55:27
  Or they're always looking at the price, right? And they're constantly checking and wanting more information.
• 55:32
  and what is that about? That is a way that they found to soothe themselves, to try to make
• 55:38
  themselves feel good and feel okay and feel safe. But what happens when they go through a process
• 55:45
  of safety and they start to feel safe? Like you said in the beginning, they start to feel anchored
• 55:50
  in the river. What happens when they start to feel anchored in the river, no matter if it's the lazy
• 55:54
  river or if it's a stage five rapids, they're able to bring that groundedness to themselves.
• 56:00
  You know, now they look up, they go, hey, Brandon, I'm not looking at Twitter.
• 56:05
  I'm not on Twitter anymore trying to gain information.
• 56:08
  I'm not always looking at the price of Bitcoin.
• 56:10
  I don't need Bitcoin to be different to feel better about myself.
• 56:15
  Yeah, yeah, that's the key.
• 56:17
  That's a that's a beautiful place to be because I know most Bitcoiners have this anxiety, right?
• 56:22
  Like of this, oh, it's down or it's up.
• 56:24
  I don't ever actively look for Bitcoin price ever.
• 56:26
  But being in a space, like you're constantly bombarded with all sorts of news and from the living base in the culture, you kind of have to know what's going on where you're fed this information from your surroundings, right?
• 56:39
  So, and from your explanation, it seems like when men have this disalignment going on, wanting for more and start to feel that, oh, like I'm not feeling at my best.
• 56:51
  I'm not performing as well.
• 56:53
  And I'm hitting a wall sense of fulfillment wise or performance wise.
• 56:58
  Do you also see your clients or high performing men struggle more with intimacy because of their special traits?
• 57:06
  Yeah, for sure, because they had to shut off that part of themselves to produce at a high level.
• 57:11
  So they feel high levels of aloneness because they had to shut off their heart to perform and to produce.
• 57:21
  So now they come into a relationship of intimacy, maybe with a partner, maybe with business partners or even their team, and their team is needing their heart.
• 57:30
  okay but they don't know how to give that part because they were trained in shutting that part
• 57:36
  of themselves off to produce okay so here's what they start to see they start to see that that
• 57:41
  method or that that strategy doesn't work anymore doesn't work with their wife it now doesn't work
• 57:46
  with their team and so the hard part is now they have i told you about emotional debt and that
• 57:52
  emotional baggage to now open up all they have is what they all they have is the emotional debt and
• 57:58
  baggage to give them. Okay. That makes sense. And oftentimes those people don't know how to handle
• 58:05
  that emotional baggage or debt. And so they're caught. They feel like they're in a lose-lose
• 58:11
  situation. And so their wife just wants them to be better. To be better, what starts with openness?
• 58:18
  And that openness in the beginning is heavy and messy and it's a lot. And so that's where we come
• 58:25
  in, we come in and help them process that debt, right? And start to navigate those waters and
• 58:31
  start to become familiar with how they feel. And then they start a process of openness with the
• 58:38
  people around them. And, you know, it's so beautiful to see these high-powered individuals
• 58:43
  start to open up, right? Start to become vulnerable with their team, start to give their team their
• 58:49
  heart, start to share these parts of themselves that they've hidden. Yeah, it's very courageous
• 58:56
  because they're like tens on a scale of one to 10 at their profession and at the level that they
• 59:03
  operate in. But at an emotional level, they're like threes. They're very awkward. They're in
• 59:09
  the Bambi stage. They're in the very awkward stage. And so for them to risk that is, man,
• 59:15
  And those are the guys that inspire me that are willing to take that risk for
• 59:19
  connection and close that gap out loud and externally to be a part of that
• 59:25
  process of closing that gap and walking them from a three emotionally and a 10
• 59:30
  professionally and to close that gap is such a beautiful gap to close But when they do when they come into alignment at that level now they operating there still a nine or a 10 at an external level And now they bring that
• 59:45
  emotional piece up to the same level. You want to talk about power. You want to talk about a new
• 59:51
  level of a new vibration, a new frequency. Now their world becomes very exponential. Now their
• 59:58
  world becomes, whoa, it's not one for one anymore. It's one for a hundred. The potency and power
• 1:00:05
  that comes from that is so amazing. But the process to get there is a little wonky.
• 1:00:14
  I bet. And especially if you know, I'm already like feeling pressure because you mentioned all
• 1:00:18
  the wives would just want the husband be better. Like be better is very high pressure. I sense a
• 1:00:25
  lot of pressure just by you say, be better. Like I can imagine a wife's like, be better. Like it's
• 1:00:30
  a lot of stress and a lot of pressure to start with. Feel understood. And now you're opening up
• 1:00:36
  emotionally and then that opens up her emotionally. And then it becomes a, you know, forgive my
• 1:00:42
  language, but a real shit storm and it becomes messy, right? Because now you've opened up,
• 1:00:48
  you know, 20 years of emotional, you know, of emotions and resentments. And now he's opening
• 1:00:55
  up and finally going there, it's not a real safe place.
• 1:00:59
  If two traumatized people come together and they fall in love and they live through that
• 1:01:04
  turbulence, and oftentimes we just see the two people start to spiral because one person
• 1:01:10
  would feel triggered for whatever reason the other person would have no idea of.
• 1:01:14
  And then if the other person is traumatized, then they will feel offended.
• 1:01:17
  They will feel attacked.
• 1:01:18
  They will feel personal.
• 1:01:20
  Why are you saying this to me?
• 1:01:21
  Like, it's your fault.
• 1:01:22
  And then they get into stimulating and reminding each other's trauma constantly.
• 1:01:28
  And then, but at the same time, you're in love, like you want it to work.
• 1:01:31
  And it's very difficult to having to navigate through love while dealing with your own and your partner's trauma.
• 1:01:39
  It is a shit show.
• 1:01:41
  Yeah.
• 1:01:41
  Jenny and I, my wife, we've been together for 23 years, right?
• 1:01:46
  I tell people we've had three different marriages.
• 1:01:49
  and you know the the first seven years we came together out of okay you know right she's beautiful
• 1:01:58
  I'm a professional athlete we came together out of some of those in incompletions you're going to
• 1:02:03
  complete me kind of energy and fear and the core wounds weren't processed and so there's all of
• 1:02:09
  that we're having kids and the whole thing and then you have to come to a place okay wow this
• 1:02:14
  way of relating doesn't feel good. And this way of relating is obsolete. Are we willing to let go
• 1:02:21
  of what we've been to create something new? And that's very scary, right? Because you have to
• 1:02:27
  create something better. You have to be willing to let go and surrender what you have. And so I
• 1:02:34
  know for us that navigating our own healing inside of our marriage is a very, very vulnerable process.
• 1:02:42
  And that's why we needed support. I needed support in my life. I needed coaches in my life. I needed people in my life to help me navigate that so that we don't get in that trigger cycle. There is a trigger cycle, right, that you open up to your partner. And then what does it do? It hits on their, what, identity, okay? I'm not being a good husband, which hits on their core wound of I'm not enough.
• 1:03:06
  And then you're in this place of you're both triggered and we don't know how to get past this place.
• 1:03:14
  We see a lot of, I see a lot of marriages happen that way.
• 1:03:18
  And helping these individuals navigate, we call it the tension, the emotional tension.
• 1:03:23
  You can't be a safe place for your partner's emotional tension if you don't, if you haven't been a safe place for your own emotional tension.
• 1:03:31
  If you don't know how to navigate your own emotional tension, you definitely can't navigate your wife's emotional tension.
• 1:03:39
  You're not going to have the tools to be able to do that.
• 1:03:42
  And so I love that process of being able to, you know, we call it the seven-layer dip, right?
• 1:03:48
  Got to go seven layers inside of yourself to get to that warm, chocolatey center.
• 1:03:54
  Same thing with our partners.
• 1:03:56
  There's seven layers to really get to her heart. And to be able to go there and to navigate all of that is not something you can do mentally, right? It's not something you can do just because you picked up the curriculum. It's something that you have to first personally embody.
• 1:04:14
  Yeah, for sure. For sure. Yeah. Yeah. And for those of whom who are watching this episode right now, who are themselves high performance individuals, let's say, how do you what is one thing you can say to themselves and their partners?
• 1:04:29
  For those of whom whose partner is like really highly achieving and type A, all that jazz.
• 1:04:34
  What is something you want to tell each of these groups, something actionable that can help them navigate through this process next time the tension starts to build?
• 1:04:45
  Yeah, don't take it personal.
• 1:04:48
  Okay, and it's not about you.
• 1:04:52
  And that's really helped me to know that when my wife is sharing, sometimes it starts with some always and never statements, right?
• 1:04:59
  to go, okay, this isn't about me and I'm not going to take this personal. What is she really
• 1:05:06
  trying to tell me? And I get to go, hey, maybe it's not about I never take out the trash or I
• 1:05:11
  never pick up my clothes or I never do. What is she really feeling? And I'm able to keep it about
• 1:05:16
  her and her heart by not taking it personal. Even those triggers that come up in me that want to
• 1:05:21
  defend, I even get to go, hey, that's just childhood trauma. That's not even real.
• 1:05:27
  Okay.
• 1:05:28
  We're not going to let that win.
• 1:05:29
  I can breathe through those triggers and still be present for her.
• 1:05:35
  Right.
• 1:05:35
  I can breathe through those things that are happening inside of my body, not take those
• 1:05:39
  personal, not identify with them and still ask for more.
• 1:05:43
  Hey, tell me more about how you're feeling.
• 1:05:45
  Obviously you feel frustrated.
• 1:05:47
  Tell me more about that.
• 1:05:48
  I want to know.
• 1:05:48
  I want to know more about, well, yeah, I just feel frustrated.
• 1:05:51
  And I, you know, dah, dah, dah, dah, dah.
• 1:05:53
  And you did that.
• 1:05:53
  Hey, I know that doesn't feel good.
• 1:05:55
  I know that doesn't feel like you're being respected. Tell me how it feels that you're not,
• 1:05:59
  you don't feel respected. Well, you know, I just, I never felt respected as a kid and they,
• 1:06:03
  I felt like my boundaries were always bypassed and, and Hey, like, keep going. Tell me more about
• 1:06:08
  how that felt that, you know, you didn't feel safe and that your boundaries were by, well,
• 1:06:12
  yeah, I just felt so alone most of my life and I had to walk through life alone. And,
• 1:06:17
  and I just feel this alonement. I feel alone. And then, and then, yeah, I can relate to feeling
• 1:06:23
  alone. I felt that way when I played tennis. Tell me more about the aloneness. And then, you know,
• 1:06:27
  you go about seven layers in and then you're just like, what has happened here? Now, wow,
• 1:06:35
  we are so connected and we're healing each other through this process, right?
• 1:06:41
  For sure. Because humans are rich in context. Like sometimes we forget about how important
• 1:06:47
  contexts when it comes to everybody's story. And we are the only people that are inside ourselves.
• 1:06:53
  We're the only person that knows the trajectory of starting to at this very moment, right? Like
• 1:06:59
  none of the other people outside ourselves know our part of the story. So when we take requests,
• 1:07:07
  when we take different emotions or statements to others especially for the ones we love Like we can expect them to know all of the context already And your approach is very true because I sure we humans do it to a certain extent
• 1:07:23
  but I can speak as a woman that it's true that oftentimes when we're starting things,
• 1:07:30
  well, not starting things, but giving these sentiments, showing that we're upset,
• 1:07:34
  It's really oftentimes about wanting to be heard, wanting to be wanting a proof that you still love me, you still care about me.
• 1:07:44
  Yeah.
• 1:07:45
  And it's cliche to ask, do you still love me?
• 1:07:49
  Like, it's not like that, right?
• 1:07:50
  So we need to kind of look for evidence as humans in different scenarios to see, oh, does my partner still love me?
• 1:07:58
  Where can I feel loved from the action of my partners, right?
• 1:08:03
  And that speaks to the core of a lot of the issues.
• 1:08:08
  That emotional safety, right, is a way that we can transfer love the greatest.
• 1:08:14
  Truly hearing and seeing our partner and not just hearing them what they're saying, but actually hearing what their heart is saying.
• 1:08:22
  And seeing that part and being a safe place for that part is so powerful. And it is a way, probably the most effective way to transfer love in a relationship and is to truly hear and see. The hard part with that is when we're, you know, our partner opening up and asking those questions, do you love me? I don't feel safe, right?
• 1:08:45
  Sometimes it's not communicated that way. It is communicated in an attack or it's communicated in a, I call them always and nevers. And so being able to hear what people are saying, right? Not what they're saying, but being able to hear what they're saying. What is Jenny, my wife saying? What are my kids really saying right now? And then we can take that into the business world. Like, what are they really saying right now? Hey, I hear you. You don't feel safe.
• 1:09:13
  Yeah, you don't feel safe. You don't feel something. You're feeling, you're trying to tell me something you're feeling. Like, tell me what you're really feeling right now. And when you hear somebody hear their heart and you see their heart, you know, that's such a wonderful, wonderful thing and a wonderful gift to give others that very few people ever get.
• 1:09:34
  Yeah, for sure. I definitely have been that lucky and received guidance in that sense and having to open up myself.
• 1:09:42
  But I always try to keep them posted, I guess, once in a while so that they get to see the trajectory.
• 1:09:48
  I wanted to show them this is how far I've come as a thank you.
• 1:09:51
  Right. Because as you said, it's a really rare gift that anyone gets to receive.
• 1:09:57
  And in your program, you also talk about different kind of move.
• 1:10:02
  So let's talk about that. When we are transferring our value, making impact in the real world, when people go through the program, go through this shadow work, this healing process with your handholding with you in that process to help them.
• 1:10:20
  And in the end, they will be able to make a different kind of move, which will help them build high something high leverage in life.
• 1:10:29
  And that's not necessarily business from from what I can understand.
• 1:10:32
  So let's talk about the concept of capacity and this type of move that you were you were talking about.
• 1:10:38
  Is that really one specific move? What does what would make something high leverage in life?
• 1:10:45
  If it's not just business.
• 1:10:46
  I had this client that's a private equity guy, has hundreds of companies that he's in charge of. And he's going through this process and he's leveraged people's fear, right? And their survival energy to get for them to perform and produce. Now he's moving into leveraging his own heart and leveraging the heart of others.
• 1:11:08
  And what we're able to see from that leverage of leveraging the heart and leveraging the heart of others, the, you know, heart math, I don't know if you're familiar with heart math, but heart math quantifies scientifically the power when someone's connected to their heart versus when they're intellectualizing.
• 1:11:25
  It's a thousand times greater electromagnetically.
• 1:11:29
  So the greatest form of leverage is to operate from your heart.
• 1:11:33
  I mean, you want to talk about a thousand times greater energy is when someone operates and leverages their heart and leverages the heart of others.
• 1:11:42
  And so that is the biggest, to me, the biggest power move is learning to navigate the waters of your own heart and then being able to learn to what steward and to captain the ship of an entity, an organization.
• 1:11:56
  We call them now, instead of organization, organisms to to captain this organism, right, to be a part of this and leading this organism.
• 1:12:04
  You want to talk about leverage and exponentiality. You want to talk about, you know, there's nothing like a there's nothing worse than a high powered guy.
• 1:12:13
  Let's take my private equity guy coming home to his wife and and they not have connection.
• 1:12:18
  You want to talk about the work? I'm this big, massive guy. And then I come home and I feel so small because I'm so bad at this.
• 1:12:26
  gap. Right. That's the worst kind of hell and misalignment and suffering. But for those things
• 1:12:34
  to come into order and alignment and congruence, to close that gap, that now you're not just the
• 1:12:41
  people outside of you, but the people inside it, like your kids actually want to be around you,
• 1:12:45
  not because of the money you give them, but because you're actually relevant to them emotionally.
• 1:12:49
  You want to talk about leverage. You want to talk about the bigger things in life when you can feel
• 1:12:56
  that, that you're emotionally relevant to your children. You're emotionally relevant to your
• 1:13:00
  partner. You know, that's the biggest, as my kids say, I've got older kids, I've got high school
• 1:13:05
  age kids. That's the biggest flex. The biggest flex in the world is to be able to be emotionally
• 1:13:11
  relevant as you age. That move from the head to the heart and creating then not just creating a
• 1:13:18
  world and realigning your organizations and your structures to the heart, that is a process and
• 1:13:25
  that's an intense process, but there's no more fulfilling process than when that happens because
• 1:13:30
  now you don't just have admiration outside. Now you have love on the inside. And it really is the
• 1:13:37
  journey for these guys to go from admiration to love. It's different. It's different to be admired.
• 1:13:44
  It's one thing to be admired. It's another thing to be loved.
• 1:13:48
  You don't want people to love you merely based on admiration because then they wouldn't love you
• 1:13:54
  despite, right? Right. So to move to that place of receiving and giving love versus just living
• 1:14:02
  that egoic structure of admiration and performing for value and mental protectionism,
• 1:14:07
  for someone to break out of that world and to create something new, that's the work.
• 1:14:14
  And I love being a part of it. I love helping guide that process. It's the honor of my life
• 1:14:20
  to get to be able to be my first client.
• 1:14:23
  You know, I'm my first client.
• 1:14:24
  I have to embody it and live it out.
• 1:14:26
  And then also to be able to administer, guide, facilitate,
• 1:14:31
  mediate all the things that I get to do in my world.
• 1:14:33
  For sure.
• 1:14:33
  And this is how you can have your piece
• 1:14:36
  as the mentor in that process, right?
• 1:14:39
  Because otherwise, if you don't,
• 1:14:40
  I guess we have to practice what we preach here If you not personally have gone through that process first you will not speak from a place of truth issue number one number two that you would feel so much
• 1:14:52
  stress because you haven't personally gone through that process so really love to see that and see
• 1:14:58
  the transformation you personally have gone through and all of the people that have been part of your
• 1:15:02
  program and did something for themselves and ultimately benefited not only their immediate
• 1:15:08
  circle but whatever they touch us on because they now have a different approach to life and from
• 1:15:14
  from my own experience out of the chunk of work i would say it's 50 50 right like the first 50
• 1:15:20
  of the work is is to be radically honest with ourselves and to really have that internal dialogue
• 1:15:27
  the good the good thing is that you can do this in private right you can do this any time of the day
• 1:15:33
  on a walk, in shower, or, you know, before you sleep, like you have so much freedom and flexibility
• 1:15:40
  in terms of how you want to approach this. But the worst thing is that you're in this alone,
• 1:15:45
  like you're in this alone, no matter how much guidance you have, no matter how many people
• 1:15:51
  are handholding you in that process, the end of the day, there's still questions that would rely
• 1:15:57
  ourselves to find the answers and would need our, again, like radical honesty to push through
• 1:16:04
  the confusion and then the fear and then the insecurity and all. And that's only 50% of the
• 1:16:10
  work. And then another 50% is now this time to align your life based on that, right?
• 1:16:18
  The awareness is one thing that that honesty brings. Then there's life alignment.
• 1:16:24
  Yes, yes.
• 1:16:25
  So now I've been given this awareness. Now, how do I build my life from this awareness? Okay. When I've built my life up into this point from a different awareness. Okay. And so now you have this new awareness. And then, like you said, there's the life application. That's, that's, that's the, that's, we're going to do that. I did that at age 20, you know, 23 when I retired from tennis, but I'm still doing it. Right.
• 1:16:50
  I'm still applying deeper levels of awareness in my life every day.
• 1:16:56
  Even seeing you, I get to hear you and see you and see you as a mirror.
• 1:17:00
  And I get to see myself through my clients.
• 1:17:03
  And it always calls me deeper and higher, right?
• 1:17:07
  It's a never-ending practice.
• 1:17:08
  And it's just like video games, right?
• 1:17:10
  The final boss at your level, they're going to be stronger as you become stronger.
• 1:17:16
  And that's really the fun of it, if you think about it.
• 1:17:19
  And you don't want to be leveling up and beating the same boss and you'll be like quitting the game after three days.
• 1:17:24
  So it's a good thing that we get to level up once we work through our trauma.
• 1:17:29
  And I have so much respect and appreciation in what you do.
• 1:17:33
  As I can also see, everybody nowadays are traumatized in this postmodern society for historical reasons, social reasons or family reasons.
• 1:17:43
  And it's hard for us to come together and build something if we're all traumatized.
• 1:17:47
  And this is something that I personally frustrate with, with my environment sometimes, because I've gone through a lot of the process we've chatted about today.
• 1:17:56
  And I can personally attest that it has brought me tremendous transformation.
• 1:18:01
  So I'm so looking forward to learning more stories from your clients of their transformations.
• 1:18:06
  And maybe they would be the perfect guest to come on Live with Bitcoin.
• 1:18:09
  And is there any final suggestions you would like to say to someone who is feeling the fog but doesn't know what to do with it?
• 1:18:18
  Yeah, we call it a holding pattern, right?
• 1:18:21
  You've been in a holding pattern from one season that has ended.
• 1:18:26
  You can feel it to the new season that's beginning.
• 1:18:29
  And there's not a lot of clarity.
• 1:18:31
  I love that word, the fog, right?
• 1:18:32
  And you're just up here and you're in a holding pattern, right?
• 1:18:35
  That holding pattern is a signal that you're wanting to land the plane into the new season, but you don't know how. And if anybody that is in that place of knowing that what used to work for me doesn't work and you're being called to something new, but you're kind of just holding and you're in this holding pattern and you're bored of Bitcoin or you're bored of whatever you're doing, right?
• 1:18:56
  Like, and you're just kind of up here, you're being called to a new season and that transition, getting you out of that holding pattern and into your new season.
• 1:19:05
  Man, it's just, it's, I know that world very well.
• 1:19:08
  And it starts, starts with, it's, it's an emotional journey.
• 1:19:11
  You can't figure it out.
• 1:19:13
  A lot of these guys try to figure out how to land the plane.
• 1:19:15
  And now you can't figure it out.
• 1:19:17
  This is something that has to be felt through.
• 1:19:19
  So the journey that they're being asked to go on is, is feeling it through rather than figuring it out.
• 1:19:24
  For sure.
• 1:19:25
  And once you feel it through, you will realize that all things is clear and the questions that you were trying to answer may have already disappeared by then.
• 1:19:34
  Yeah, that's right.
• 1:19:35
  The things that you made the problem are no longer the problem.
• 1:19:38
  And the clarity emerges and you're like, whoa, I can see.
• 1:19:42
  My goodness, it all opens up.
• 1:19:44
  Right.
• 1:19:44
  And there's a new clarity.
• 1:19:46
  And yeah, it's beautiful.
• 1:19:47
  It does start with a little bit of trust.
• 1:19:49
  The trust fall.
• 1:19:50
  We always say everybody has to take the jump.
• 1:19:53
  Okay.
• 1:19:53
  Everybody has to take the leap into the heart.
• 1:19:55
  but there's always a feather bed underneath.
• 1:19:57
  It feels really scary,
• 1:19:58
  but there's always a feather bed waiting to catch you
• 1:20:00
  for those that are willing to take the job.
• 1:20:03
  Yeah, I guess.
• 1:20:03
  And I guess for all the hopeless romantics out there,
• 1:20:06
  one motivator is that once the shadow work is done,
• 1:20:10
  there's definitely more likely and more chances
• 1:20:14
  where we can find our love and thrive in love.
• 1:20:17
  So I hope that's a good enough motivator
• 1:20:19
  for the romantics out there to get started today.
• 1:20:22
  And for those of whom who want to get to know more about the program of Proof of Heart, how can they find you?
• 1:20:30
  I'm on all the socials and you can go to my website, brandonhawk.com.
• 1:20:34
  And I think it's got all of our information.
• 1:20:38
  And yeah, I have Jared Stankowski as my business partner.
• 1:20:43
  He's also a client, but he wanted to bring this to the Bitcoin world.
• 1:20:46
  And so for the last couple of years, he's brought this to the Bitcoin world.
• 1:20:50
  and we have been now being pursued and being sought out because the message resonates.
• 1:20:56
  And I'm really enjoying this group of people I'm getting to work with inside of the Bitcoin community.
• 1:21:02
  Yeah, it's been a lot of fun.
• 1:21:04
  And the Bitcoiners are so brave.
• 1:21:06
  And I love being a part of people who are really courageous and brave and early adopters.
• 1:21:13
  And Proof of Heart is a brand we're creating inside of Bitcoin.
• 1:21:16
  and I'm super thankful for Jared and what he's doing
• 1:21:19
  and how he's getting my message out to this group
• 1:21:21
  that I'm now, you know,
• 1:21:23
  Bitcoin's even become a big part of my investment portfolio
• 1:21:26
  because of Jared and that whole process.
• 1:21:28
  So I'm being indoctrinated myself
• 1:21:30
  and I'm learning myself from all of you guys.
• 1:21:33
  And it's just a real absolute honor to be on your show.
• 1:21:37
  Thank you so much for having me.
• 1:21:38
  Thank you so much.
• 1:21:39
  And kudos to Jared who made this very conversation happen.
• 1:21:43
  You bet.
• 1:21:44
  We look forward to bring your voice to more people in the Bitcoin community.
• 1:21:48
  And I'm sure that what you have experienced, what you are working on would resonate deeply in this community as we all move on to the next season in our lives as Bitcoiners.
• 1:21:59
  Thank you so much for sharing your insights with us.
• 1:22:03
  And for those of whom who are looking to learn more about the program, more about Brendan and their work, please check out the links in the description below.
• 1:22:11
  Thank you so much, Brendan, for joining me today.
• 1:22:14
  And this is another episode of Live with Bitcoin.
• 1:22:17
  This is Ivy Lumi, and we'll see you in the next one.