Latest / Vanity Farah with Chris Farah / Love After Lockup Relationship Rehab Deep Dive with Dr. Ish, Michael and Justin

Transcript

Love After Lockup Relationship Rehab Deep Dive with Dr. Ish, Michael and Justin · Vanity Farah with Chris Farah

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: Hello. Hello.
• 0:05
  Speaker 2: How are you?
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: You guys, I'm so good. Thank you so much for
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: meeting with me, truly. I know that you're, like, on
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: a press day, but I promise you, A, this will
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: be a fun interview because I'm a longtime fan. I
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: know everything about it, so I'm, like, in it. Like,
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: we're going to talk about the fact that Justine can spit, like,
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: nobody's game. Like, we'll talk about things that, like, you.
• 0:26
  Speaker 3: Know I know. Okay, so hi.
• 0:28
  Speaker 4: Hi.
• 0:29
  Speaker 3: My name is Chris. I specialize, I guess, in.
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: Pop culture commentary. Like I was on Chelsea Lately and
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: stuff like that. I had a podcast with a friend
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: for a long time called DocuSweeties, and we had covered
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: you guys in the show.
• 0:40
  Speaker 4: Nice to meet you, Chris.
• 0:42
  Speaker 3: It's a pleasure.
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: So first of all, let me say this show is
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: incredibly intentional and thoughtful in a way that.
• 0:51
  Speaker 3: I was not expecting.
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: And I'm pretty well versed in the landscape of not
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: only reality shows, but honey, like sharp entertainment.
• 0:59
  Speaker 3: I've seen every last resort.
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: So when I came to this, I wasn't, I had
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: no idea what I was going to watch and I
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: am incredibly appreciative to be able to watch it.
• 1:09
  Speaker 3: Thank you.
• 1:12
  Speaker 4: Thank you for that. Thank you for that.
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: I think the, the realness of it, the authenticity of it,
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: we've got to, we've got to thank the couples for that.
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: They showed up and they were willing to share parts
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: of their lives with us.
• 1:27
  Speaker 4: That they've never shared out loud before. And so we
• 1:30
  Speaker 4: got to thank you guys for that.
• 1:33
  Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely.
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: Every couple came with a lot of heart and a
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: lot of empathy and the curiosity to sit and watch
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: each other experience and also be there for people outside
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: of therapy sessions.
• 1:50
  Speaker 3: And Dr.
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: Ish, of course, yes, it's like everyone needs to come
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: with vulnerability, but the show was obviously set up and
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: produced with a way of like having dramatic moments, but
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: not for drama sake, just because there is a human
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: need to be loved.
• 2:06
  Speaker 3: And yet it is so fucking hard. Like in itself,
• 2:09
  Speaker 3: that is, that's all you need to be a nightmare.
• 2:13
  Speaker 5: Real emotion is not produced. See here, he's not telling
• 2:16
  Speaker 5: me you're going to come in here and cry in
• 2:18
  Speaker 5: a minute. It's like, it's, it's going to come out
• 2:21
  Speaker 5: because of what's being said, you know?
• 2:24
  Speaker 4: So he did a great job.
• 2:25
  Speaker 5: Because I mean, without him, there was no show. He's
• 2:28
  Speaker 5: the one pulling out them demons.
• 2:32
  Speaker 3: It was so well produced.
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: I know.
• 2:35
  Speaker 3: I'm telling you.
• 2:36
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 2:37
  Speaker 3: Congratulations. Congratulations across the board. I'm so thankful.
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: But also, it's going to be so helpful for people. Anyway,
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: I'm going to get over that. That was amazing. You know, Michael,
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: something that you experienced and something that is very hard
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: for everyone is that It is hard to feel discomfort
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: or vulnerability, especially if you've experienced trauma or grief because
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: you have the memories of that pain and you sort
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: of like catastrophize the idea of feeling it again. And
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: I understand the, you know, wanting to be hard. And
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: it's so, it's such a, like an interesting dichotomy that
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: like the hardest thing is just to allow something to happen.
• 3:23
  Speaker 3: Take you down and feel.
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: And even if the knowledge of the feeling will pass
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: like a cloud in the sky, the devastation of just
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: allowing that is overwhelming. And I feel for you so
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: much when that's hard.
• 3:34
  Speaker 3: But I guess, Dr.
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: Ish, what would you say, advice-wise, for someone who just
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: the thought of feeling any sort of pain takes them
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: out of therapy or even being open?
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think, let's reframe it. I don't think it's
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: a matter of Mike wanting to be hard. I think
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: it's a matter of Mike wanting to feel safe. psychologically
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: safe to be me and to be okay. And I
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: think that's what it is for everybody. And if we
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: can create that space where you feel safe to go
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: there and know that you don't have to carry it
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: with you.
• 4:08
  Speaker 4: And I think that's the biggest thing. It really is.
• 4:12
  Speaker 4: When you guys came in, I had a few things
• 4:16
  Speaker 4: I wanted.
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: To make sure that you went home, which was knowing
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: that I'm better than the worst decision I ever made
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: in my life. And the worst decision in my life
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: didn't deserve a life sentence. I'm allowed to leave that
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: person behind as a new version of myself. I'm not
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: betraying anybody. And if I'm staying loyal to that, but
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: you know, guys who get out and they stay loyal
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: to the life.
• 4:41
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: But my question was, who are you being loyal to?
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: And is that loyalty serving you? And if it's not,
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: let me give you some options on how to do
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: something different.
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: Right. Exactly.
• 4:53
  Speaker 4: I mean, well said. Better than that, you can't explain it.
• 4:57
  Speaker 5: You know, I feel like, especially when you're incarcerated, you know,
• 5:02
  Speaker 5: the first thing you're going to do when you're released
• 5:04
  Speaker 5: is what you know. Because the opportunities are not stacked
• 5:08
  Speaker 5: up for you. It's not like you're coming home to
• 5:10
  Speaker 5: a debit card for $ 500 and a room for a
• 5:13
  Speaker 5: week and, you know, get on your feet.
• 5:15
  Speaker 4: No, you're coming to whoever's couch. You know, you're coming
• 5:19
  Speaker 4: to whatever halfway house, whatever. So it's easy to get.
• 5:22
  Speaker 5: Around people who are still doing the same thing and say, hey, man,
• 5:26
  Speaker 5: you know, just get your dollars.
• 5:27
  Speaker 4: Up real quick.
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 5:29
  Speaker 4: It takes someone real courage to stare adversity in the
• 5:34
  Speaker 4: face and be like, you know what? I'm going to
• 5:35
  Speaker 4: do something different. And I'm going to get here doing
• 5:38
  Speaker 4: it this way because this is the way you're supposed
• 5:40
  Speaker 4: to do it.
• 5:40
  Speaker 5: Because there's integrity behind actions now. It's just not money
• 5:45
  Speaker 5: and glamour and glitz.
• 5:46
  Speaker 4: It's integrity.
• 5:47
  Speaker 5: So that's why I feel like everything we're building is strong, founded,
• 5:51
  Speaker 5: happy strong foundation because we're just being genuine to each
• 5:55
  Speaker 5: other too.
• 5:57
  Speaker 4: And our relationship is public. You know what I mean?
• 6:00
  Speaker 5: So where the girls popping out with the, you know
• 6:04
  Speaker 5: what I mean?
• 6:04
  Speaker 4: And where the guys popping out with the receipts, like
• 6:06
  Speaker 4: we're loyal to each other. So you can't fake it,
• 6:10
  Speaker 4: you know? Oh yeah.
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: I'm sure people would love to take you down because
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: there's fandoms that are annoying and you are a hot
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: ass couple. So I'm sure people have tried to do
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: dirty things. I mean, your love is obviously palpable. And it's,
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: I think one of the reasons why something else that
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: you guys, you, you Dr. Rich talk about in episode one.
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: And another reason why I think the show has like
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: a lead in some necessary discourse is the idea of recidivism,
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: which is, Can I just let you define, I didn't
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: actually know that word until you said it. And I
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: think it's an important idea for the society to understand
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: that we set up systems that fail us in a
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: lot of ways. Anyway, will you mind commenting on that? Yeah.
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: So when you think about recidivism, the way we normally
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: think about it is as a repeat offender, right? So
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: for whatever reason, well, it got out and then six
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: months and then right back in. And so it's just,
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: it's coming out and going right back in. And so
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: that recidivism rate is 75%. At three years, you've got
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: a 75% chance of going back in.
• 7:13
  Speaker 4: Now, that's you, if you've been inside. You've got a
• 7:16
  Speaker 4: child who's been impacted by justice. Mom's been in, dad's
• 7:19
  Speaker 4: been in.
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: That child's got a 74% chance.
• 7:22
  Speaker 4: 74%.
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: So Chris, if I said, Chris, you know what? I
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: think you've got a 74% chance of winning the Mega
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: Million Lottery next week.
• 7:32
  Speaker 4: How many lottery tickets are you going to go buy?
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: All the money I can spend on them, honey.
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: Because you know it's going to happen. Now, the biggest
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: protective factor, the biggest thing that keeps you safe is
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: coming home with somebody who loves you. And not just
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: somebody who loves.
• 7:51
  Speaker 4: You, but somebody who believes in you. And you can trust. Right?
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: What did that mean when you look at her and
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: she's like, I believe you can do it.
• 8:02
  Speaker 4: What does that mean?
• 8:03
  Speaker 5: It means everything because her opinion is the only one
• 8:06
  Speaker 5: that really matters.
• 8:08
  Speaker 4: You know what I mean? Outside, I mean, outside, anyone
• 8:11
  Speaker 4: can say whatever the fuck they want. But when I
• 8:13
  Speaker 4: sit down with her, it's like, how do you feel
• 8:16
  Speaker 4: about it?
• 8:16
  Speaker 5: Because everybody else, you know, they're going to feel momentarily,
• 8:19
  Speaker 5: but you're going to, it's going to impact you.
• 8:21
  Speaker 4: So how are we doing? And like I said, people
• 8:25
  Speaker 4: look at our relationship and be like, oh my God,
• 8:26
  Speaker 4: you know, they communicate. But remember, three and a half
• 8:29
  Speaker 4: years on the phone. It's a lot of time to communicate. Yeah.
• 8:32
  Speaker 5: When we were able, our relationship isn't like we didn't
• 8:35
  Speaker 5: hook up and next week we had sex and we
• 8:37
  Speaker 5: had a baby and we.
• 8:38
  Speaker 4: Stuck with each other.
• 8:39
  Speaker 5: We took almost four years to really know each other
• 8:42
  Speaker 5: before we even.
• 8:43
  Speaker 6: I feel like our relationship has been very intentional from
• 8:45
  Speaker 6: the beginning.
• 8:46
  Speaker 4: Like how? In what way? Well, I knew where he was.
• 8:50
  Speaker 3: You worked with his mom. I mean, like, yeah.
• 8:53
  Speaker 4: I worked with his mom at the time. Yes.
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: So.
• 8:57
  Speaker 6: I knew where he was and I intentionally went forward,
• 9:01
  Speaker 6: you know, and I got to see a side of
• 9:03
  Speaker 6: Mike that I don't think anybody else will ever get
• 9:07
  Speaker 6: to see. I've seen him at his lowest, you know,
• 9:11
  Speaker 6: for three and a half years. I didn't even see
• 9:12
  Speaker 6: him in a different color of clothing.
• 9:15
  Speaker 4: You know what I mean? So, and then we went
• 9:18
  Speaker 4: through the pandemic together.
• 9:19
  Speaker 6: You know, there were times where I was talking to
• 9:21
  Speaker 6: him on the phone and he's coughing and he told
• 9:23
  Speaker 6: me one time, it's like, I don't know if I'm
• 9:24
  Speaker 6: going to make it to tomorrow. That was the craziest
• 9:27
  Speaker 6: night of my life, waiting for that call in the morning.
• 9:32
  Speaker 6: And the waiting throughout the years and being true to
• 9:38
  Speaker 6: myself and just really thinking about him is kind of
• 9:45
  Speaker 6: what kept me going. And every move that we've made
• 9:48
  Speaker 6: since has made sense, and it's been intentional.
• 9:51
  Speaker 4: And I don't regret any of the steps.
• 9:55
  Speaker 3: No, it was still celebratory, Justine.
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: You really, I mean, your moment coming out, honey, with the... catsuit, honey,
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: and the car.
• 10:03
  Speaker 4: They still talk about it. Of course. She was coming
• 10:06
  Speaker 4: to the jail. The guards would be like, dude, you
• 10:08
  Speaker 4: need to tell your girlfriend. She can't be coming.
• 10:12
  Speaker 6: No, listen, we found out later that the guards used
• 10:14
  Speaker 6: to let me in in different clothing than the other
• 10:17
  Speaker 6: girls because it kept him calm for seven hours.
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 10:20
  Speaker 4: So that's why they... They said if they turned her around,
• 10:23
  Speaker 4: he's going to cause hell. So let her through.
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 10:26
  Speaker 4: They told him, you're leaving.
• 10:28
  Speaker 6: I love that.
• 10:29
  Speaker 4: I love that.
• 10:30
  Speaker 3: I wasn't playing. I love it. They won.
• 10:33
  Speaker 4: I was not playing. I love that. Even when she
• 10:35
  Speaker 4: would leave, I would tell the guard, at least until
• 10:37
  Speaker 4: she'd get in her fucking car.
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 10:39
  Speaker 5: Like, y'all watch her leave, man. Don't... You know those
• 10:41
  Speaker 5: weirdos that be parked in all these mountains and shit.
• 10:44
  Speaker 5: And I think that Like she said, even the jail
• 10:48
  Speaker 5: saw a different side of me, you know?
• 10:49
  Speaker 4: You know what I mean?
• 10:50
  Speaker 5: Even the guards, even the prisoners, everyone was like, oh, man,
• 10:53
  Speaker 5: this guy's your last. He's not on edge, you know?
• 10:58
  Speaker 4: She gave me that. She gave me that comfortability. She
• 10:59
  Speaker 4: saved my life, to be honest. Wow.
• 11:03
  Speaker 3: No, you say that.
• 11:03
  Speaker 4: You can feel it. Trust me. I would have been
• 11:06
  Speaker 4: dead or in jail. Because when I was coming home,
• 11:09
  Speaker 4: I wasn't coming. Before I met Justina, I was coming
• 11:11
  Speaker 4: home with vengeance.
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.
• 11:13
  Speaker 4: I felt like everybody was shitting on me. I'm going
• 11:15
  Speaker 4: to get this.
• 11:16
  Speaker 5: Much more money and I'm going to, and I'm making
• 11:19
  Speaker 5: connections in there and incriminating myself before I even get up.
• 11:24
  Speaker 4: And then when she came, just like, yo, I can't
• 11:26
  Speaker 4: fuck this up.
• 11:28
  Speaker 3: God bless you, Justine. And I mean that, you know,
• 11:30
  Speaker 3: you did. Yeah, it's hard. And, and your looks are
• 11:34
  Speaker 3: always so good.
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: Like I was going to say this, if that is
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: an iconic moment, I will say you do have an
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: iconic moment, honey, because your entrance into episode one.
• 11:41
  Speaker 3: Of this, it gave me grease. It gave me, Danny
• 11:44
  Speaker 3: and Sandy. It gave me.
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's hot as hell. Listen, you have good style.
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: I have like three minutes. I have a couple minutes left. Michael,
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: your hair is always fun every episode of every scene.
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: It's like, oh, what's happening now with that? Your styles
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: are fun. I just want to say that. And I
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: need to say something else to you. I'm so sorry
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: about Izzy. I don't know if you were public about that.
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: You put that on your Instagram. I don't know if
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: anyone ever asked about that. Your sister was on the show.
• 12:12
  Speaker 3: So you talk.
• 12:15
  Speaker 3: You talk about this moment.
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: In the rehab, honey, where you talk about going to
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: your uncle and aunt's house and you get a plate
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: of food and it's just rice and it's ketchup. And
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: your sister is like, what's happening? Can I get some meat?
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: And so my heart just goes out to all of you.
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: And yeah, that was a really hard moment. And I
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: think that like feeling other and like feeling those like
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: Micro moments in childhood that stay with you is just
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: such a universal thing. So a lot of love to
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: your family. And thank you so much for spending time
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: and talking with me.
• 12:49
  Speaker 3: And Dr. Ish, pleasure.
• 12:50
  Speaker 4: No problem.
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: No problem.
• 12:52
  Speaker 4: Just to clarify, that moment was what shaped me.
• 12:55
  Speaker 3: Oh, was it?
• 12:56
  Speaker 4: When I knew that I wasn't going to put up
• 12:58
  Speaker 4: with being treated like that. And I was young. And
• 13:01
  Speaker 4: to feel that young is crazy.
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: The male authority thing would make sense about your uncle then, right?
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: Because you were like, I don't know. I don't want
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: to put that on you, but you say that those
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: two things would be hard.
• 13:18
  Speaker 3: Thank you.
• 13:18
  Speaker 4: Thank you. Chris, it was a pleasure. Thank you so much.