Latest / The Art of Costume Podcast / Cleopatra (1963)

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Cleopatra (1963) · The Art of Costume Podcast

0:05
Hello and welcome to the Art of Costume podcast.
0:07
I'm Elizabeth Joy Glass. And I am Emperor deity Spencer
0:12
Williams. You wish.
0:14
You wish, Spencer. All all you have to do is get
0:17
married and next thing you know you're a God to some people.
0:20
You know, apparently. This is apparently how it works.
0:25
How you doing this week? I am doing good.
0:27
I have been preparing for the past 4872 hours for today's
0:32
episode and it's it's a real fun one.
0:36
Historical hot girl summer got real hot.
0:38
It did. It absolutely did.
0:42
But First things first, Spencer, I believe you have the results
0:47
of our Pride and Prejudice Stitch rating.
0:50
We have some business to take care of.
0:52
So if you listen to our last episode, Pride and Prejudice,
0:55
Elizabeth and I just cannot decide on what stitch rating to
1:00
give. Prayer and Prejudice because it
1:01
obviously was stunningly beautiful.
1:03
Costumes, production, acting, directing, everything about it
1:08
is stunning. There's just some parts.
1:10
To me, they're like, yeah, I don't know, just kind of drag.
1:13
So it's just, I don't know. We just couldn't.
1:15
Yeah, it was. It was a hard one.
1:17
I gave it a 3.5. I think I gave it about the
1:20
same. Yeah, I don't know.
1:21
So we went to the audience and I was like, kind of worried that
1:26
maybe like a couple people. No, the costume nerds blew it
1:30
out. So I had some great statistics.
1:35
Statistics. I'm a math person.
1:38
Absolutely, absolutely. OK, so I actually, I'm not even
1:44
going to pull pull it up because I just haven't memorized.
1:46
So TikTok was a little bit of a smaller pool.
1:49
Maybe it was like 1015 costume nerds reached in.
1:53
I mean, I should actually read some of the comments.
1:56
They were all very. Oh, we got comments too.
1:58
Oh, we got a lot of comments. Oh man, yeah, you have to bring
2:02
up the comments. OK, bring up the comments.
2:06
I mean, there's, there's quite a bit.
2:08
I'll try to be quick because we have a big episode ahead.
2:12
Oh yeah. But some people like, for
2:15
example, someone who I actually very much admire on TikTok,
2:20
Summonly Eaton, who has a also great podcast and talks about
2:24
costumes on TikTok, She said as an adaptation, it's a 3.5, As a
2:31
standalone film, 5 Stitches, which I was like, yeah.
2:37
You know what? Yeah.
2:39
Seen it on the big screen, really solidified my wavering
2:42
opinion. It's a beautiful film both
2:44
visually and story wise enough to convert many non period film
2:47
watchers into art of fans. I actually think it transformed
2:50
a genre. Ava Rozer said Everything's A5
2:54
for me, which I totally agree with.
2:59
Some people said it's one of the best Pride and Prejudice
3:01
adaptations, this, Marie said. I prefer senses to the
3:06
sensibility. One person said they actually
3:10
hated some elements of it, which I we did get a one and someone
3:15
said it's a one for the music. And I was like, what?
3:18
Even I was like, I don't know about that.
3:20
The music's quite good in my. Opinion.
3:23
They said. Music's the only thing good.
3:27
And I was like, I'm not going to name this person's name just to
3:30
protect them from the costume nerds.
3:32
So we got a whole bunch of them, you know.
3:34
What? Everybody has different
3:35
opinions. Also, we said between 1:00 to
3:39
5:00, many of you gave us numbers within the millions,
3:45
including some people that I will not bring up on this
3:48
podcast. So there's, there's a lot from
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Instagram. We had a lot of comments, a lot
3:54
of ratings probably like, I don't know, we were getting into
3:57
the like the 100 costume nerds weighing in.
4:00
And when I got the the rating, it averaged out to about a
4:04
4.84.9. It was mostly fives and TikTok
4:09
was about a 4.5 so. You know what?
4:12
Thank you, costume nerds. So thank you.
4:14
I feel like we have to give it a 5 because that's just where the
4:18
scale wishes so. Although that 3.5 for
4:22
adaptation, yes. Absolutely.
4:27
Like, I, I think that's what I was hung up on.
4:29
Yeah, as a Jane Austen person. But that, that's the perfect.
4:33
Yeah. So official stitch rating is A5
4:38
due to all the costume nerds weighing in.
4:39
So thank you. Yeah.
4:41
Thank you. Now that we have that out of the
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way, historical Hot Girl Summer really kicks up in a film that I
4:49
cannot believe I haven't seen before.
4:50
Actually, I can't believe once you and I sat down and texted
4:54
each other when we both saw the runtime at the same time.
4:59
I so yesterday I fully had a cold and I go to Amazon and I
5:05
rent it and I see the four hour. Yeah.
5:08
And I immediately text Spencer with, like, the face emoji, and
5:15
I'm like, this movie's 4 hours long.
5:17
He's like, yeah. I was like, I'm actually on
5:22
night 2 of watching this. Movie.
5:24
It took. Yeah, it took me two nights.
5:25
It's yeah, I actually, I actually didn't finish it last
5:29
night. I fell asleep in the second-half
5:31
and I woke up again around 2:30 in the morning with a new burst
5:35
of energy. So then I finished it.
5:37
We're talking about Cleopatra. Cleopatra 1960 threes Cleopatra
5:44
There are multiple so oh, I'm just.
5:47
Well, this is, I mean, this is the one.
5:49
This is the one. This is the Liz Taylor, Richard
5:52
Burton Cleopatra the story. The one that's regarded as the
5:57
nail in the coffin of the golden age of Hollywood.
6:00
I've gone on a deep dive today. I bet you I'm glad you did
6:04
because I have a lot of like just rant, you know, I have
6:07
random facts about things and I meant to like go watch
6:11
documentaries and like YouTube and stuff about the behind the
6:15
scenes of this. I didn't because I was sick and
6:17
ended up taking two hour and a half, but yeah.
6:23
No, I was getting my oil changed and I had the volume on full
6:26
blast, so the people working on my car were also like damn.
6:31
They were like Richard Burton did what Liz Taylor did what I.
6:35
Know it's it's serious. So you, you saw my book and
6:39
you're like, oh. He took a bunch of notes on the
6:41
costumes. None of this is costume related.
6:43
Spencer picked up his costume, his little like opinions
6:48
notebook, looked at me and put this bookmarker in and then
6:53
closed it and I was like, oh, OK.
6:56
These are just some of the scandals that happened in the
6:59
creation of Cleopatra. And there's a lot.
7:03
But before we dive into all of that, Spencer, do you want to
7:06
give us just the littlest I will summary.
7:10
I will try Cleopatra, A sprawling, spectacular love
7:16
story following Queen Cleopatra of Egypt as she experiences both
7:20
triumph and tragedy, manipulating Julius Caesar and
7:25
Mark Antony in a bold, I'll fated attempt to save her empire
7:29
from the rising power of Rome. And that's Cleopatra.
7:33
That is Cleopatra. If you don't know the story of
7:38
Cleopatra, I suggest you go watch it or watch the HBO
7:42
miniseries Roam. We have to do that at some
7:44
point. Would.
7:45
That be fun. Or just look up a documentary on
7:47
her fascinating woman. Yeah, from what I've gathered,
7:51
almost none of this is historically accurate.
7:53
Pretty much no. Yeah.
7:55
And a a lot of the like love story, especially of Anthony
7:59
Anthony Auntie and Cleopatra comes from the Shakespeare play
8:03
so. I wasn't here for a historically
8:06
accurate I kind of knew I was going to play something too.
8:09
Yeah, it's it is what it is. But going behind the costumes,
8:17
we have directors Joseph L Mankiewicz and Ruben Mamoulin.
8:24
In addition to those two directors, we have three costume
8:29
designers today and Spencer. They are rock star costume
8:36
designers of the golden age of film.
8:41
First up we have the men's costume designer, Vitro Nino
8:47
Noversi. You will know his work from
8:50
Prince of Foxes, Spartacus 1960, The Greatest Story Ever Told,
8:56
The Agony and the Ecstasy, Cromwell, for which he received
9:00
an Oscar, and Blazing Saddles. Blazing Saddles Well, that's a
9:06
That's a random one to throw on the right I.
9:08
I think that was one of the last, if not the last film he
9:13
did. No, that's many years later.
9:15
Then we have women's costume designer Renee.
9:20
You will know her work from Cat People, the model and the
9:23
marriage broker, the president's Lady, the big fisherman,
9:29
caravans and Body Heat. And she did get some Oscar
9:36
nominations and wins in there, and I forgot to put them in.
9:39
I'm so sorry. But we will revisit her I'm
9:42
sure, in the future episodes. And last but not least, we have
9:47
Elizabeth Taylor, his costume designer, Irene Schirath.
9:53
You will know her work from Meet Me in Saint Louis, Brigadoon,
9:58
Guys and Dolls, The King and I, 1956 West Side Story from 1961
10:06
Funny Girl. Hello Dolly and Mommy dearest.
10:11
I mean, Irene Sheriff is one of the best of the best.
10:14
I don't know that have we haven't done that Irene Sheriff
10:17
episode yet, so I've been waiting to.
10:19
I we almost did Funny Girl once. That's true.
10:23
That's true. She it was on the schedule, but
10:26
I don't. Remember something?
10:27
Yeah, something happened. Yeah, so excited to talk about
10:31
it. The fact that Elizabeth Taylor
10:32
had her own costume designer is. Crazy like that.
10:36
And it's just so old Hollywood. Yeah, it's so old Hollywood that
10:39
the star is like, no, I want this person.
10:42
Well, I mean, that wasn't her only ask.
10:46
Oh, oh, I know, I know. And these three designers for
10:53
Cleopatra designed 26,000 costumes along with 8000 pairs
11:00
of shoes. Their budget was 44 million in
11:06
the 1960s, right? Which like, that's some big box
11:11
office budgets today. It was the most expensive film
11:14
ever made at the time, yes. Yes.
11:17
And box office just under 58,000,000.
11:21
Yeah, which like, Dang, yeah, it's pretty good.
11:26
Yeah, it's pretty good. I somewhat I listened to some
11:29
podcasts today about how much it was in today's money, I don't
11:32
know, but it sounded like quite a bit.
11:34
So I do the math for us. Like we elaborate.
11:37
We're not math people. We're not math people.
11:40
Yeah. I mean, can we bring up some of
11:41
these scandals or do we have? I mean, like we said, she had
11:45
her own costume designer, but that's not the only thing.
11:48
First, like when they reached out to Elizabeth Taylor, she
11:52
basically said that she would only do this movie for
11:55
$1,000,000 as like a joke. Yeah, and they gave it to her.
11:58
I know. Oh, my gosh.
11:59
I watched, I watched a like documentary about Elizabeth
12:03
Taylor years and years ago. And I had a clip of like an
12:06
interview she did. She was like, yeah, I was in the
12:09
bathtub. And I told my husband, like, not
12:11
to bother me. And then he told me what they
12:14
wanted. And I was like, only if they
12:16
give me $1,000,000. And they agreed.
12:19
I was listening to The Plot Thickens.
12:22
It's hosted by Ben Mankiewicz, which is like related to the
12:26
director, which the director is also related to Herman
12:31
Mankiewicz, who did Susan Kane. Of course, that's a quite famous
12:34
family. So because she actually said
12:39
agreed to this $1 million, Fox Studios was like, we're going to
12:42
go all in, so we're going to make this a big deal.
12:44
So they had her signing like a fake contract for like a
12:48
publicity stunt. And because she did that, she
12:53
knew that she had Fox Studios. Well, she had to lock down that
12:59
one because she did it in public.
13:00
So some of she part of her contract included two penthouses
13:06
on location, a Rolls Royce with a personal chauffeur.
13:11
OK, fair. First class airfare for her
13:14
family and her agent. Yeah.
13:16
I mean, that was that was really just the beginning.
13:18
And it just continued to grow from that, I'm sure.
13:24
Well, before we get into this wild, wild film, let's take a
13:30
little break, Spencer. We're going to need it.
13:32
We'll be right back. Hi, I'm Dan who does all the
13:39
magic behind the scenes. I wanted to say thank you.
13:43
And if you want to support the show even farther, go to
13:45
tpublic.com/user slash the Art of Costume where you can buy a
13:52
couple variations of our logo on T-shirts, mugs and stickers.
13:57
Also, be sure to leave a like comment and subscribe.
14:01
And if you're an audio listener, leave us a five star review, an
14:04
Apple podcast. Now back to the show.
14:12
Spencer, Are you ready for Cleopatra?
14:15
I don't know if one could be really ready for Cleopatra, but
14:19
I'm as ready as I'll ever be. Like.
14:23
I don't think they were ready for.
14:24
Cleopatra. They were not ready for
14:26
Cleopatra. Like costume merits.
14:29
If you decide to watch this film and you just clear your schedule
14:34
for the day. Yeah, because there is an
14:36
intermission and you will need a break.
14:39
Yeah, that's when I took my 2 hour.
14:40
Math, you know why there's two directors credited is because
14:44
there was one director who is working on it for many, many
14:47
months. And Elizabeth Taylor,
14:49
unfortunately, was very prone to gain sick a lot.
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She was always getting sick. And then they were moving
14:56
location, location where they kept building these sets and
14:59
then kept turning them down because at first we're doing it
15:01
in LA. He said, now let's go here.
15:05
They went to London. And then that didn't work.
15:08
It was so bad. Like at one point they kept
15:10
having seagulls. So they got like pounds and
15:13
pounds of fish and put them off location to drive all the
15:16
seagulls away. And it kept raining.
15:17
Obviously doesn't rain in Egypt. So then they end up going to
15:21
Rome eventually and then and they also also they didn't have
15:27
a script, so it's just like one nightmare after the other.
15:32
And then so eventually, that director ended up being like,
15:35
OK, I'm done. And he was.
15:37
After months, they turned in 10 minutes of footage, all without
15:40
Elizabeth Taylor because she was sick the whole time.
15:42
That's when Mankiewicz took the job, and also very reluctantly.
15:46
And he said that he hated this grip and so much so that he
15:50
wouldn't even go see this movie if someone else made it.
15:54
But then Fox also offered him a very, very, very, very generous
15:57
sum. Money talks.
15:59
Yeah, so that lays the stage for Cleopatra.
16:05
And Speaking of the of the script, Irene Schaefer is quoted
16:11
in the book dressed as saying the script called for 60 changes
16:18
of costumes for Cleopatra from a girl of 17 to a woman OF371.
16:27
Tends to think of Cleopatra as looking the same through her
16:31
relatively short life. But of course, the maturing had
16:36
to be indicated. She does it so well, especially
16:41
because the first time you see Cleopatra, she's rolled out of a
16:46
rug and is wearing this great but simple orange and white
16:54
number, which I really like because she's apparently like
17:00
run off into the desert. She's running from her brother
17:04
husband who's trying to murder her.
17:08
Did you say brother? Husband.
17:10
Yeah. So it's a whole, it's a whole
17:12
Egyptian thing. That didn't come off to me.
17:15
I knew I hated him. Yeah, but I mean, she was also
17:19
the older sister, right? For her to have power, they had
17:22
to be like, married. It's a whole thing.
17:25
We don't get involved. Watch a documentary.
17:30
So it's like simple, like she was running away.
17:32
But still it's she still looks so good.
17:35
Yeah, she still looks like clean and glamorous like, not like she
17:40
was running away through the desert.
17:42
And it is interesting because with this, this very long film,
17:46
which I believe it originally came out to almost five hours,
17:49
it was 5 hours. They cut it down.
17:53
You do really see her kind of mature throughout the film.
17:56
And from the moment she rolls out that rug, there's like a
18:00
very young, flirty runaway queen vibe about her to the end where
18:04
it does feel like just like a very proud but concerned mother.
18:08
Once you get to the end of the film, because so much time
18:10
passes by, you don't really know how much time is passing by.
18:15
But things like the costumes really do kind of act as visual
18:19
cues. It really does.
18:21
And I love this like slew of costumes she has when she's
18:27
trying to seduce Caesar. They're all very young, very
18:34
flirty, Irene said. For Cleopatra, I started using a
18:41
chart to help keep things clear. It covered one wall of the small
18:47
office, was useful for the color plan, and serve to tell at a
18:53
glance which costumes and accessories had been shot, which
18:59
were noted next, and which would be called for later.
19:04
From then on, I used charts for all large productions.
19:10
Yeah, she had to have a spreadsheet.
19:12
Yeah, spreadsheets. Before there were spreadsheets,
19:15
Yeah. I mean, there were so many
19:17
costumes. I can imagine getting lost in
19:19
all this and making sure you're like, do we shoot this over?
19:22
Especially the way the script is being made as they were
19:25
shooting, It's like, I don't know what I've used and what I
19:28
haven't. So yeah, I'm sure, I'm sure
19:31
Irene learned a lot of good habits working on Cleopatra.
19:36
Because if you could do Cleopatra Patra, you could
19:38
probably do. Anything.
19:39
You can do anything. I do love Cleopatra's like
19:43
tendency to wear a lot of these. Like sheer looks around scenes
19:47
are very sexy and flirty if she's not like in a bathtub,
19:51
which is like her preferred method of.
19:53
I I love how like the next two scenes we see her in after that
19:58
opening, she only has like a piece of fabric draped over her.
20:02
Yeah. Very very sexy obviously, but
20:06
then still like modest 60s sexy though too at the same time.
20:10
Well they had to get past the sensors.
20:12
This somehow has AG rating like I mean I get it but also like
20:18
very risque. We'll get to the nipple tassels
20:21
later, just like yeah. I don't know if I got a photo of
20:25
that in here, but we, yeah, we'll talk.
20:27
Don't worry, they're in here. I also I love this film because
20:34
obviously there is not a ton of research for this.
20:39
Irene Schaefer lived the longest out of all these costume
20:43
designers which I think is why she I was able to get some
20:46
quotes from her. But mid 60s golden age not a ton
20:52
of research. There is a lot of film analysis
20:57
of Cleopatra though. And one thing I noticed and that
21:01
a lot of people like is not that it's the first film that does
21:06
it, but it has a very strong mixing of influences of the 60s
21:13
and, you know, their research of Egyptian culture.
21:18
And then Cleopatra also went on to influence fashion.
21:22
Yeah, in the 60s. But I like cuz nowadays people
21:25
are like, they like always have to bring in like modern design
21:29
to film. It's like film has been doing
21:31
this forever. This isn't a new concept.
21:34
Not at all Cleopatra. It definitely is one of the big
21:37
ones to do. I mean, there was even I I was
21:40
reading an article that Revlon did like a Sphinx pink lipstick
21:46
or something that came out like to this film as like mixed
21:49
reviews as it got really influenced culture.
21:52
I mean, people were obsessed with it.
21:54
Well, not just like the movie, but like also, of course, like
21:57
the fair between Liz Taylor and Richard Burton.
22:02
We'll. Talk about that later.
22:03
Like the paparazzi and like everything about this movie was
22:06
like the talking of. So it really had an influence
22:10
everywhere. So while of course we could talk
22:12
about how this film, you know, lots of white people, Yeah, you
22:18
know, if. You're looking for historical
22:20
accuracy and, you know, representation.
22:25
This is not the film. If you look up Cleopatra the
22:28
movie in the dictionary, it'll be right next to appropriation.
22:32
Yeah. Like, yes, they'll trust us.
22:35
We we understand. But this really for what film
22:40
could do at the time, yeah, it was like, we don't really get
22:46
spectacular films like this anymore.
22:48
No, this is an epic honestly. Well, I believe there is one
22:52
currently possibly being made with Gal Gadot, which I'm like,
22:58
we'll see. Gal Gadot.
23:00
Yeah. OK, well, Gal Gadot's origin is
23:04
similar to allegedly what I read the actual Cleopatra.
23:10
But that aside, anyway, I'd love to see a Christopher Nolan
23:13
version of Cleopatra. Stop that.
23:15
Would that would kill. OK, anyway.
23:21
We should probably just stop chatting.
23:22
Yeah, seriously, let's move on. Let's move on to this when she's
23:28
officially declared Pharaoh is what I think was going on in
23:32
this scene. I just love the Hollywood of
23:37
vacation of the costumes, the Lemay, the sequins, the like
23:43
jewel studded headpieces which I'm like this is not even close
23:49
to historically accurate but I would not mind like a really
23:54
nice photo of this for my wall. Yeah, though it's it's, you
23:58
can't like take your eyes off of it every single piece.
24:02
Like they're definitely just, I would say they're prejudice
24:04
inspired by like hieroglyphics and what they.
24:07
Like that's, yeah, that's absolutely.
24:09
That's, you know, they're taking the odd shapes that they're
24:12
seeing on these walls and like taking them literally.
24:16
I, I don't know, I mean, it's funny because like everything in
24:19
my, I, my head of like what this culture will look like comes
24:23
from like a mummy and now Cleopatra.
24:25
So I wouldn't be the right person to do this either.
24:28
So to them, like, yeah, this made sense.
24:31
So like, yeah, this on this orange hat, she's holding the
24:36
I'm not even sure what they're called and they call it a day,
24:38
but it looks. Beautiful.
24:39
It looks gorgeous. I love Caesar in here.
24:42
He's wearing like his nicest armor.
24:45
I'll. Say, and the laurels.
24:48
Rex Harrison as Julius Caesar is arguably one of the best parts
24:51
of this movie. He kills it.
24:52
He actually kills it. Very good and very convincing as
24:56
a leader in a Caesar. And I would understand why
24:59
Cleopatra fall in love with him. Yeah, that's why I think the
25:03
first half of this film is light years better than the
25:06
second-half. Absolutely.
25:09
Absolutely. Especially when he has to go
25:13
back to Rome and the way she enters Rome, Oh my gosh.
25:22
My stitch rating jumped very high I know during this scene.
25:26
I know like costume like I think.
25:30
You know who texted me about the scene actually was our friend
25:34
Janae, she said. There's a scene in Cleopatra
25:36
where Cleopatra brings her baby to Rome, and it's like one of
25:40
the great scenes ever. And I was like, OK, And I saw
25:42
it. And I was like, she's right.
25:44
Like, yeah. This scene slaps.
25:47
And I think this is where Renee and Vietro really shine is this.
25:54
And then Irene is just like the icing on top.
25:58
Yeah. Like it like like those dancers
26:03
with with the wings. The wings that were kind of
26:06
giving me like a Bob Mackie type of feel before, you know, it's
26:11
just. Where's the one girl in the
26:13
flower Pasty? Bikini The pasties that got so
26:17
close to the camera. I was kind of shocked, actually.
26:21
I was like this has AG rating in 1963.
26:25
So, so scandalous. But yeah, I mean, you just see
26:28
waves and waves of dancers, these huge, incredible sets.
26:32
I was very taken aback by the colors.
26:36
Yeah, lots of African influence. Yeah, and I was very like taken
26:40
by the the purples, the Blues, the Reds, the golds.
26:44
Like there was there was everything.
26:46
And I've, I was like, OK, this I'm this is still within the
26:50
realm of the golden age of Hollywood before this murders, I
26:54
guess the golden age. But I was like, like, this is
26:57
something epic. This is what I would consider
26:59
like something epic. Epic scale.
27:01
Yeah, I was. I was blown away by it.
27:03
I could watch the scene over and over.
27:05
I know some people say it's way too long.
27:07
To me, I was like, this was the most captivating part of the
27:10
entire film. Yeah, honestly, if you just want
27:14
to watch up to the intermission and be done with Cleopatra,
27:19
you're good. I don't blame you.
27:20
It's OK. Then Cleopatra steps down to see
27:25
Caesar and she just has this gorgeous headpiece, the gold,
27:28
all gold next to her, her son and her.
27:31
Son, all in great. Too.
27:33
That's Yeah, that's spectacular. Yeah.
27:36
If you haven't seen this scene, you would need to go watch it
27:38
right now. And I like how they did all the
27:42
Rome Roman citizens and senators and Caesar, and we get our first
27:48
look at Anthony, who I really like how he's not in his armor,
27:55
but in something very fancy. Yeah, I'm like, OK.
27:59
Yeah, he's trying to see what this Cleopatra is about.
28:02
Yeah. Which apparently he sees quite a
28:04
bit he. And William, I belong so to
28:14
Entertainment Weekly about Cleopatra.
28:18
Those were costumes, as they say, with a capital K.
28:23
It was a big, glamorous film. Everything Elizabeth Taylor wore
28:27
could have been worn to the movie opening.
28:31
They were couture gowns, totally over the top, totally
28:35
appropriate for Cleopatra and Elizabeth Taylor.
28:39
Yeah. And like, that's what that whole
28:41
scene is over the top. Totally.
28:43
I mean, I don't know too much about Cleopatra, but I would
28:46
like to vision that she is this big.
28:49
I mean, she's supposed to be a God to these people, so might as
28:53
well lean into it. So at this point, when with the
28:55
budget this film had, I would also be like, you know what, go
28:59
for it. Go big.
29:00
Irene, Sheriff. Why not?
29:02
Go big or go home, and that's what they did.
29:06
They really did. They really did and some I like
29:11
her costumes in Rome because they have a very Roman influence
29:16
without looking what looking like what all the other Roman
29:20
women are wearing, especially that red, white and black
29:25
number. I I really love that.
29:29
And her, her black and gold getaway dress with the blue
29:34
veil. I was like, girl, you're not
29:36
hiding. Come on with the.
29:39
Huge. Tassel earrings, yeah.
29:42
It was very interesting though to see the way that she was kind
29:46
of like had like that signature Roman drape to her, but it was
29:50
like she was blending both worlds like all the time,
29:53
Egyptian and Roman as a through line.
29:58
But just like the film, we need a little intermission A.
30:03
Little intermission. This is before we get to the
30:06
dark part of this. Yeah, this is a long movie,
30:09
y'all. This is a long movie and we will
30:12
see you shortly, all right? Alright, Elizabeth, Are you
30:20
ready to head back to Egypt? Oh yeah, Because somehow we are
30:25
not done with Cleopatra. We have a lot more trauma to
30:27
bring to Egypt for her. Well, Caesar's dead, so now
30:32
she's got a pivot. Her plan?
30:34
And I'll, I'll say I was kind of shocked when Caesar died, which
30:38
I know just very much historically recorded.
30:43
That's like. But when he died.
30:45
A big historical moment when? He died and I then hit
30:48
intermission. I was like, well, what are we
30:50
going to do with the rest of the film?
30:51
I thought that's what the whole movie was about there.
30:53
No, the rest is Anthony and Clefatra.
30:55
Yeah. And then I was like, oh, we're
30:56
doing the same film just two times.
30:58
Yeah, just the second time is a little bit more cringy.
31:01
Yeah. So we take some time goes
31:05
forward. I believe that it's, I believe
31:07
they said it was like 3 years or something, something.
31:09
Like that travel took a long time back then.
31:12
Well, when it counts in this film, sometimes it's a couple
31:16
seconds. But yeah, so we're back in Egypt
31:19
and Cleopatra obviously feels like a little bit more older, a
31:22
little bit more mature, but she's like fully the ruler of
31:25
Egypt at this point. She's not trying to go between
31:29
these both worlds at the time because Caesar's dead and she's
31:33
kind of over it. Like she's like, Egypt's her
31:35
thing now. She absolutely is.
31:36
She just wants to be secure in her position.
31:39
That's all she wants. And well, actually, she wants
31:43
her son to be ruling Rome as well.
31:47
Like actually she works. Quite a bit.
31:49
She does work quite a bit, but I love this first look of hers
31:54
because she's clearly like, morning Caesar.
31:57
And she's got a kind of like, more conservative version of the
32:05
gold headpiece and silver conservative for Cleopatra,
32:11
restrained for Cleopatra. But she's got this whole, like,
32:14
silver, gold and purple number, and it's just top notch.
32:19
She's got, like, one of her courtiers, her, like, main
32:22
advisory guy gets a little bit of like an upgrade to, like,
32:27
black and gold. Yeah.
32:29
And it suits him. Yeah, he looks good.
32:32
Cleopatra's crew. Oh.
32:35
Top notch. They're killing it.
32:36
All the handmaids and you know, servants whatnot, they, it just
32:42
her, she takes care of her court.
32:44
She does, I would say. And actually I did read a lot
32:47
that actually a lot of the people that worked with
32:49
Elizabeth Taylor amongst all the drama also said that she was
32:52
actually very nice and very kind to all the people that she
32:55
worked with. That's what I've heard too.
32:57
Despite all the drama, they're like, actually, she was nice to
32:59
work with. Yeah, if she was there, yeah,
33:03
you know. If she was in the room,
33:04
fantastic. Also, who really wants Cleopatra
33:10
in the room? Is Anthony the one?
33:13
They're like, she's got to come to Rome and it's like, you're
33:15
not going to get that woman to Rome.
33:18
Although I love how she gives them what they want without
33:23
giving them what they want. She rolls her boat up into the
33:26
parking lot across from Rome. And she's like, you're coming on
33:30
my boat. Yeah.
33:30
And I was like, that's a baller move.
33:32
Right, right. I love the blue, the black, the
33:37
gold. I think they've even, like,
33:38
painted her skin gold. Yeah, she looked very shimmery
33:43
in that opening boat scene, and I was just confused.
33:48
Yeah, she, I mean, just felt like she was appearing almost
33:52
like the savior that Mark Antony needs in her, in his life when
33:57
he sees her. But of course, he gets very.
34:00
Mark Antony has a serious crash out amongst many in this film.
34:04
And the first one is when he realizes that Cleopatra's
34:07
wearing that golden necklace made out of the coins of Julius
34:10
Caesar. He does not take that well.
34:12
He does not, but she's like, you know what, Sir, you're going to
34:17
do what I want you to because she seduces that man like
34:21
nobody's business. And I love his look in this with
34:25
the blue and the leopard skin chef's kiss.
34:30
I like how they like change up the Roman look in this film
34:36
because I feel like a lot of times it's kept very standard
34:41
the like red or gold armor, but this I'm like I like the change
34:47
UPS. I like the change UPS the.
34:49
Subtle. I believe it's Jaguar the subtle
34:52
like Jaguar notes that would. That would be more sense.
34:55
And like his clothing and sometimes her clothing when they
34:58
kind of like, are finally together.
35:01
Oh, I shouldn't say finally, because no one asked for that.
35:03
They're always back and forth. But yeah.
35:09
And we just get a lot of drama, a lot of looks.
35:14
One of her favorite looks for this second-half for me is that
35:18
green and gold gown. With all the pleading.
35:22
I was like, oof, yeah, girl, yeah.
35:25
That snatched at a waistline, yeah.
35:27
Oh yeah, I also love the amount of like Rome we get to see in
35:32
the second-half. Yeah, I mean, shout out to the
35:36
production and set designers that created these sets because
35:38
they were incredible. And we get to see Anthony's
35:42
Roman wife and that poor woman. She's just, like, stuck in this
35:49
game between these two men. Yeah, but.
35:52
That's like a good costume speak to like for Renee.
35:56
Also, though, who? Yeah, like I really do
35:58
appreciate the drape of that like, Roman dress that she's
36:02
wearing, almost looking like a statue of her time.
36:06
And I also love like, especially like the bus lines for the Roman
36:10
women. It gives me very like 1950s new
36:14
look, which I'm like, yeah, they would be a little more like like
36:21
old school conservative compared to Cleopatra, who's out here
36:24
being like, I'm going to do what I want.
36:26
Yeah, very eccentric. Although talking about like
36:32
culture and costume coming together, that orange and gold
36:39
like night time outfit she wears when she's like Anthony has
36:43
betrayed me and she's stabbing everything with the sword kills
36:51
it is so good. So good and just so 60s too.
36:56
I'm like, this is such a snake. Hair.
36:58
The eye makeup. Everything about it, it's just,
37:02
yeah, it's. The way she screams his name, I
37:06
was like, girl, get it together. And I believe that scene was
37:09
actually happening at time when her and her affair with Richard
37:13
Burton were actually in a very bad place.
37:16
I'm. Like the second-half of this
37:18
movie is messy and so is your life.
37:20
Like art imitating life. Life imitating art?
37:25
Not good. If you don't want to like it's
37:27
just learn about it. I mean, it's it's messy in
37:31
today's standards of like messy celebrity relationships very,
37:35
very bad. Both married to.
37:37
Yeah, yeah. Like, so this is a crazy affair,
37:42
not going well and it was bleeding into like the film and
37:46
stage. Of course.
37:47
I think Elizabeth Taylor actually handles it very well.
37:50
I think she does great in her parts.
37:52
Yeah. That being said, I don't think
37:54
Richard Burton was a great actor in this film.
37:57
I don't think he was. I don't think he was, but we
38:02
have some more great Cleopatra looks.
38:07
I call this her goth court look cause literally black, silver,
38:14
gold for her court and she's in this like fantastic red, white
38:20
and blue number. We're just Egyptian symbols all
38:26
embroidered all over it. Yeah.
38:29
And, like, I wish we got to see more of the back in the film
38:34
because I just stumbled upon, like, one of these, like,
38:36
costume snapshots for reference. And it's gorgeous.
38:41
It's gorgeous. I love that scene because she's
38:44
basically like, you're going to give me what I want because you
38:48
screwed me over. Yeah, and then it gets even more
38:50
goth when she, like, puts her son on the throne and she's also
38:54
in black. And it's just like, girl, you
38:57
know what you're doing. I'll be honest, I think I slept
39:01
through this part. Spencer I don't remember.
39:04
Seeing the sun. But guys it was a long movie I I
39:09
must have checked out this part but I did come back.
39:13
Don't remember this, but that, that looks great.
39:15
I was missing this. I was like, where is the sun?
39:17
And seeing her in that little black #2 next to her son with
39:21
him on the big stage right there.
39:23
Oh, I gotta go back and watch that you.
39:25
Do you do before that? Amazon?
39:29
Did you rent it? Yeah.
39:31
Oh yeah. Get in there.
39:32
I played it like 3 or 4 times so at some point they're going to
39:36
lock me out. We also, so there's especially
39:42
in the second-half, there are so many costume changes.
39:45
In one of those documentaries I was watching about Elizabeth
39:48
Taylor, there's another clip of her just being like, it was just
39:52
costume after. She's like, I just felt like I
39:54
was part of like a costume parade.
39:56
She was like, this wasn't a film.
39:57
It was just a parade of costumes.
40:00
But this is true. Yeah.
40:03
I mean. She's not wrong.
40:05
But there are some standouts in the second-half, the all white
40:10
number with her like crown hair. Yeah, I loved that.
40:16
Her black, red and silver nightgown.
40:22
That was one of my favorites. That was chef's kiss.
40:25
Which looks ridiculous next to Marc Anthony.
40:28
Yeah, I want to say he doesn't to me, doesn't look good.
40:31
And his. No, he never looks good in the
40:33
second-half of this film. After that like Jaguar and blue
40:38
armor he shows like a a mess. Yeah, I mean, he, he looks, he
40:43
does not look like a warrior to me.
40:44
The guy needed, I'm sorry, but need to hit the gym.
40:48
He. Did.
40:49
Instead of hitting women? Really.
40:51
Did we? Yeah, so true.
40:57
We also got another one of these like great court outfits.
41:02
Oh, this one was ridiculous. With like this crown wig combo.
41:08
If you're not watching on YouTube, you really need to come
41:11
by and see some of these costumes because these are this
41:15
one it's. Wild.
41:17
This is so wild, I don't even know how they came up with this
41:20
one. I don't know.
41:22
And I like, I wish I'd like gotten to do a little bit more
41:26
research about everyone else involved.
41:29
So I want to know how they came up with this.
41:30
Yeah. I want a tutorial.
41:32
How did you make this? It looks like she has like a
41:35
bunch of statue of liberties on her head almost.
41:37
I I think they're definitely a bunch of little like Egyptian
41:40
God statues and then like this just like gold hair, yeah,
41:45
helmet thing. But that purple dress that she's
41:49
wearing, I feel like I've seen it before too.
41:52
I don't know. It's, it's stunning.
41:54
It is. And I love the use of purple on
41:56
her. It looks great.
41:57
Also, I mean, her eyes have always had like a Violet tint.
42:01
Elizabeth Taylor. So I feel like this is one of
42:04
those costumes where they really let her eyes stand out too.
42:06
Absolutely. Also I feel like this is like
42:10
really her last standout look is her like military commander
42:17
outfit all blue with like the fur lined coat.
42:24
I honestly I saw this and I was like almost worth sitting
42:29
through the second-half to just to see this.
42:32
You don't get to see it for very long either.
42:34
Yeah, that one did stand out to me.
42:37
I obviously love the headpiece, but I was also really struck by
42:41
like the Jaguar fur lining underneath too, because that to
42:44
me was like, that was saying that she, I don't know, it's
42:47
like she's fighting Rome, but she's still has acknowledging.
42:52
Seasons with them, yeah. Yeah, I don't know.
42:55
She was very torn on the whole thing, but she just need a win
42:58
is what Cleopatra needs. So she did.
43:00
She kept time Marc Anthony to get his ass up because we need
43:03
to win on this day and boy did we not get it.
43:07
We did not get it and she knows it.
43:11
They lost. We lost the production loss.
43:14
Everyone lost. Everybody.
43:16
Everyone lost, but she ends it in simplicity and style.
43:21
This white gown, the orange and red coat she's wearing, chef's
43:28
kiss, and then her bestie handmaids burying her in the
43:33
gold outfit from when she enters Rome.
43:40
Stunning. And I like this end because you
43:42
really get to see her handmaidens for the first time.
43:46
They're always kind of in the background and this is where
43:48
they really stand out. Yeah.
43:50
And you can see how like invested they are in protecting
43:53
her, but they're realizing that things are going very South and
43:56
very fast. This is the end of the.
43:58
Road. I did love that white look on
44:00
her though toward the end with the orange shawl over her.
44:04
It just felt, I don't know, it worked with the coast.
44:08
It looked around her. Oof, so many good.
44:12
Ones the little gold dagger just hanging there.
44:15
Yeah. So good, so good.
44:18
And that is Cleopatra, yeah. I mean, what else was there to
44:23
say? There's just so many.
44:25
We could just talk about costumes all day long from this
44:28
film. Yeah, we really cut it down.
44:31
We really cut it. Down.
44:32
We really cut it down. I mean, it's just like one of
44:35
those films that's just not, it wasn't recorded well in terms of
44:38
the costumes, all of all they would talk about was just how
44:41
many costumes there were historians would talk about and
44:45
just how expensive it was. But I would love to hear more,
44:50
you know, about the research, if there was any, which I assume, I
44:54
mean, Irene Sheriff, I'm sure you know, was a researcher and a
44:58
historian in ways. So I loved it.
45:03
What would you give this film as a stitch rating though?
45:12
It's hard to rate older films. It is.
45:15
I'm going to give it a 2.5 for incredible costuming, incredible
45:26
sets, the music. Everything else is terrible.
45:33
Like even they have fantastic actors in this.
45:37
None of them are doing I I think Rex is the only one that's
45:40
really like acting his ass off. Yeah, in this.
45:43
Yeah, I I think I'm also going to say a 2.5 I but like I did
45:51
like this movie though. Me too.
45:53
I enjoyed it. I think it was.
45:55
I do think it was good. It's just like it really
45:59
suffered from their obvious like, because we know writing a
46:04
script in a moment isn't that very.
46:05
Good. I know.
46:07
No, it is. Not it's not good.
46:10
So I think it definitely suffered from that.
46:12
I think Richard Burton really brings the second-half of this
46:16
film down. And also Mankiewicz famously
46:21
talked about how he always kind of once he did kind of have
46:25
creative control over this film, which he never truly did.
46:29
He was like, this needs to be a two-part movie like that's.
46:33
It should have been. He was like, I see this as like
46:36
one movie with like the way the intermission was set, like
46:38
that's where he wanted his first movie, the end, and then they
46:41
will regroup and come back for the second-half.
46:44
And Fox did not want that. So he missed out.
46:49
Yeah, so I think that they would have benefited from that and
46:51
they even did cut that. I guess there's a version out
46:54
there that where they brought down to like 2 1/2 hours.
46:57
But of course they were like, it didn't make any sense because
47:00
all dudes just jump around scene to scene.
47:03
Like that's like there's so much storytelling, but not really.
47:08
So let's just, I'm going to stick with a 2.5.
47:11
I like you said, you cannot deny that the costumes are
47:15
outstanding. They won an Oscar and one of the
47:18
few Oscars. I will say Elizabeth Taylor was
47:21
not nominated for an Oscar. I'm not shocked you don't think.
47:25
I thought she did great. She did fine, she showed up and
47:28
she did her job. But I cannot imagine anyone
47:33
else's Cleopatra though, because Elizabeth Taylor was at the top
47:36
of her game. She was one of the probably the
47:39
most famous actress in this moment.
47:41
I couldn't imagine. She to me is she was right for
47:45
this film. She was Cleopatra and just like
47:47
all the like drama and you know, the press fascination with her
47:52
just made it even more evident. That being said, it's still 2.5
47:58
if if you cut a intermission it might be a three.
48:00
Yeah. I also think because I know a
48:02
lot of historical context around it, I'm like, although I must
48:10
say, I do appreciate they gave her like more smarts than most
48:16
people would because for a long time, historians were like, oh,
48:20
she was just like a suggestress who like, manipulated men to get
48:25
what she wanted. And it's like, no, she was a
48:28
powerful woman in a man's world who knew what she wanted and how
48:33
to get it. And was widely a successful
48:35
ruler. Absolutely.
48:36
So well, maybe we can figure out A1 cost to rule them all though.
48:43
Spencer, I think there is only one costume to rule them all
48:48
really, for Cleopatra. Oh, let's hit the music, Daniel.
48:54
The one costume to rule them all.
49:02
Spencer, I think we're in agreement.
49:07
Are we? On this movie.
49:10
OK, well should we say at the same time, yes, the one costume
49:13
rule them all is? The golden look.
49:16
OK. From when she arrives to Rome,
49:21
when she comes down those stairs after the parade she had, which
49:25
was like 15 minutes in the movie.
49:28
I thought it was fantastic. I just.
49:30
Yeah. That was such an image.
49:33
I I agree. I could have a print of that
49:35
film store in my office. Yeah.
49:37
Absolutely. It's gorgeous and it just feels
49:40
very rich. You could tell that they put so
49:43
much into it. The headpiece, the beading.
49:46
I want to say metalwork bound up.
49:48
It's real metal. I think it's all sequencing.
49:51
Well, it looks incredible. It's that is an iconic piece.
49:56
It absolutely is. It's perfect for that scene, and
50:00
then it's a perfect costume for them to end on when she's laying
50:04
there, just like chef's kiss through and through.
50:09
Well, that brings us to the end of Cleopatra.
50:12
I'm so glad that you picked this one.
50:15
I you're. Welcome, she put.
50:16
It on the schedule and I was just kind of like, OK, like I've
50:19
never seen Cleopatra, but I've obviously heard about.
50:21
And we've talked about trying to get more older films onto the
50:26
podcast and. So far it's we've been 2 for two
50:29
we've. All been for.
50:29
Cleopatra. I don't know.
50:31
I, I, we're, I think we're headed in the right direction.
50:35
Once I once I start reading about the drama, I was like, oh,
50:38
I'm hooked. That's.
50:40
What brings you into this movie? I'm going to continue deep
50:45
diving on the drama after today's episode, but let us know
50:49
what you thought of Cleopatra. If you were able to get through
50:52
the whole 4 hour movie or even if you got through the first
50:55
half, send us an e-mail at theartofcostume@gmail.com of the
51:00
hear or comment on our Instagram and TikTok because I'll be
51:05
posting clips and I'm sure everyone will have a lot to say
51:09
like you did on Pride and Prejudice.
51:11
Follow us on Instagram at our costume pod, TikTok at the Art
51:15
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51:17
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51:25
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because that's just rude. You know, it's because it's
51:34
right there. Just hit the button.
51:36
And it helps us a lot it. Helps us and you can see all
51:39
these beautiful costumes that were ranting your raving about
51:42
Elizabeth Historical hot girl summer continues in our next
51:46
episode. And I've been wanting to do this
51:49
film since the very beginning, but it hasn't worked and now it
51:53
has. This is a top five Elizabeth Joy
51:56
Glass costume film, although it is just also an amazing film all
52:02
together. Everybody.
52:04
Next week we will be watching Memoirs of a Geisha.
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I'm so excited. I just watched it for the first
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time a couple hours ago like this and I have a lot to say
52:18
about it so I'm excited. Yes, all right, everybody go
52:22
watch Memoirs of a Geisha and we'll see you next week.