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Labour’s deputy leader race - who is Bridget Phillipson? · The Fourcast

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  There is a moral case to make as well about who we are as a
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  country, what we believe in, and I don't think we win by seeking
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  to out reform reform. The last thing we need at the
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  moment is internal squabbles. Divided parties don't win, and
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  we can't beat reform if we're arguing amongst ourselves.
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  Theme that that the conference has developed against reform,
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  about sort of going against our, you know, British nature, if you
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  like. Where does that go next?
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  Hello and welcome to the forecast from Labour Party
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  conference in Liverpool and the first of our deputy leadership
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  interviews. First up is the Education
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  Secretary, Bridget Phillips. And welcome.
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  Hello, write your own job description.
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  Campaigner in chief, a voice to get things done in government
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  and bringing together the membership and the movement to
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  do more brilliant Labour things. So so it's it's a more internal
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  focus job for you rather than public facing.
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  So I have the public facing rules, so I think I can combine
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  the two. But I also would be that link
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  between the membership and the movement and the party in
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  government. That's the way it's always been
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  done in the past where you look at people like Harriet Harman,
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  John Prescott, Angela Rayner, who were big figures in
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  government but also had to reach into the membership and into our
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  trade union movement. And that's what I think I can
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  bring I. Mean, normally I would be going
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  through a load of policies and asking you what you think about
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  this, that and the other. If it was a leadership contest
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  and you weren't in government because you're in cabinets, I
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  assume you're not going to disagree with anything that is
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  government policy. Well, what I've done
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  consistently and what I'll always do is to make the case
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  what needs to happen to represent the views of our
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  members, our voters and our movement in government.
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  It's why, you know, I fought tooth and nail to expand free
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  school meals to half a million more children.
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  But that only happened because I had a seat at the cabinet table
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  and I could get things done. I wasn't throwing stones from
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  the outside. Do you feel that is the way to
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  get things done? Look, I think there's a risk
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  that if you're not in government, you you're simply
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  throwing stones, you're not contributing to that wider
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  direction. What I would bring is the voice
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  of members, the voice of the movement, but into the heart of
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  government, putting our values into action.
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  And what I've been setting out today in the speech I gave to
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  Labour Party conference is how we do that.
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  You know, for example, bringing them up maintenance grants,
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  targeted maintenance grants for less well off students.
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  Yes, I mean, but if if you're not able to voice the criticism
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  because you're in the cabinet, how would people know what
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  you're saying? Because it's about what you
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  deliver, not just simply what you talk about doing.
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  And I think members can look at my record of delivery, whether
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  that's on rolling out early years education and childcare,
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  the new free breakfast clubs, the further announcement I've
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  made this week to go even further, half a million more
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  children benefiting from free school meals.
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  And today, new targeted maintenance grants for students.
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  That's the difference you make when you've got a seat at the
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  cabinet table, when you're able to get things done.
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  And that would build on the amazing campaigning record of
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  people like Angela Rayner who did that incredibly effectively
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  from within government. So, I mean, you're widely
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  assumed to be one of the big voices calling for an end to the
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  two child benefit cap in the government, but we don't know
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  that, you know, would you like to tell me is that what you're
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  calling for inside? I've been very clear that
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  scrapping the two child limit is on the table.
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  I have been leading that work of the Child Poverty Task Force.
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  The evidence is clear. I'm clear about what needs to
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  happen. Two child limit is on the table,
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  but I haven't been waiting around for that.
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  And that's why, you know, 100,000 children next year will
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  be lifted out of poverty because of the action that I've taken as
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  Education Secretary. I think members can look at my
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  record, look at what I've delivered and take confidence in
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  that. But what I'd also say is that
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  the message I've heard loud and clear from all the people that
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  are with us here this week is that they want us to unite, to
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  take the fight to reform and to beat them.
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  The last thing we need at the moment is internal squabbles.
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  Divided parties don't win, and we can't beat reform if we're
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  arguing amongst ourselves. Right.
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  So, so you think all the leadership talk is, is
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  destructive at the moment? I mean, you know, if you were,
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  if you were deputy leader, you'd be on the NEC in a couple of
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  months time. A proposal comes forward, Andy
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  Burnham wants to stand in a by election.
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  I think I know how Lucy Powell would vote on that candidate
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  selection. How would you do?
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  You. Well, I think Lucy Powell's a
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  big friend of Andy Burnham's and would support him coming back
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  into Parliament. Look, I've worked.
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  Really, I don't know what you would think in that scenario.
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  Look, I've worked really closely with Andy.
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  We've done lots together on skills, a big priority for him
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  and we've worked with him and with our regional mayors to to
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  deliver a lot more on skills. But I'm not going to get into
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  hypotheticals for as to events that you know will or won't
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  happen. And we did just have a general
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  election last year. So you know if.
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  He wants to be an MP. Would you like to see him back
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  in Parliament? That's a matter if that's up to
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  him, really. It's not for me to say.
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  I mean, he's. He's well, it would be if you
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  were a deputy leader because you get a vote on the NEC.
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  No. If no, I mean, we're talking
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  about a few hypotheticals way, way down the line.
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  Look, Andy's doing a great job in Manchester.
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  As, as I understand it, he's got no intention of stepping away
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  from that position. No.
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  But it's interesting that you're not, you're not prepared to say.
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  I think it'd be great, great to see him back in Parliament.
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  Well, I'm generally opposed to like hypotheticals about if
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  there were a by election. If this were to happen, you're
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  asking me to get a few steps along along a journey that
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  doesn't actually exist at the moment.
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  People tend to like hypotheticals they like.
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  Journalists love. Hypotheticals they.
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  Journalists love hypotheticals for reasons you will understand,
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  but I'm I'm not getting into that.
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  Right. So, so when you say taking the
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  fight to reform, what do you mean?
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  Because, you know, we, we, we, I think we're not used to seeing
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  you, you know, in the way that we're perhaps used to seeing
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  Angela Rayner as a sort of a barnstorming Street Fighter.
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  I mean, I think my speech is that what you are?
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  Well. Have watched my speech and you
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  can give me a verdict. What you reckon?
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  Yeah, but I've campaigned the length and breadth of our
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  country. You know, I was shadow education
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  secretary for 2 1/2 years. I campaigned in seats the whole
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  length and breadth of England and what I've also done since I
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  launched my campaign to be deputy leader is to be in every
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  nation and region because we've got really vital elections
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  coming up in Scotland and Wales next year.
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  And I've also always been confident and keen to make sure
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  that our members, our MPs, our counsellors have got things they
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  can put on their leaflets. And when I go to those seats and
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  I campaign, what I see in those leaflets is the new breakfast
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  club that's opening in the in the town, the new the new
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  nursery that opened in September that my department is delivering
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  and the expansion of free school meals.
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  So good Labour policies are values into action.
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  I've got a record of delivery, but I'm asking members for the
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  mandate to go even further. Can you do that when you're
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  education secretary? I mean, it's not a part time
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  job, is it? No, but is anybody seriously
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  suggesting that Angela Rayner was a part timer?
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  She was running a big government department.
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  John Prescott was the same 1 he was in government and Harriet
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  Harman too. But I suppose there's more
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  campaigning now, isn't there? I mean, you've got elections
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  coming up next year, as you say, that are going to be really,
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  really important, not least to the future of Keir Starmer, that
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  are going to need the deputy leader out there on the streets
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  a lot. And you've got a big job.
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  Absolutely. But I'm out there on the streets
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  anyway. I'm in, I'm out across the
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  country every week, you know, visiting schools, colleges,
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  campaigning with our candidates on the doors.
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  It's why if you, you know, look at lots of the MPs who endorse
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  me, and I did secure the biggest number of endorsements from MPs,
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  it was me, you know, two years ago knocking on doors in their
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  constituency or with them on a school visit.
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  I've got a strong track record on this.
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  I think Members recognise that and I want to do more.
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  So, so how do you now take the fight to reform?
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  I mean, there's been a big argument at conference since
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  Keir Starmer, you know, launched his attack on what a policy he
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  believes is racist around how you attack a policy that is
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  racist without saying the people behind it and the people who
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  support it are also racist. So there are two things.
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  Firstly, we do need to to make a difference in people's lives in
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  terms of the cost of living pressures and the challenges
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  that they're seeing around public services.
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  That is part of how we will beat Reform, people seeing and
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  feeling change in our communities and being better
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  off. But alongside that we have to
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  make the moral case for what we believe in and why we believe
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  it, why we're Labour and why our values are the values of the
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  British people. And I don't think where people
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  are is the divisive, unpleasant rhetoric that Reform are
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  increasingly peddling. That's becoming ever more
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  extreme. You know, I think we have seen
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  would. Disagree with that?
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  Wouldn't they? I think it, I think it reflects
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  the frustration that people feel about the pace of change.
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  And you know, we've had many, many years where in communities
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  like mine, people have seen bus services disappear, they can't
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  get to see an NHS dentist. When they ring the police,
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  nobody comes. That's what we've inherited as a
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  government. After 14 years, that's what we
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  will turn around and we have to deliver and show to people that
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  their communities are getting better, that their lives will
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  improve and they've got more money in their pocket.
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  And the action I've taken in government has done precisely
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  that. You know, the 30 hours of
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  government funded childcare we rolled out that puts seven and a
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  half 1000 lbs back into the pockets of families.
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  That makes a huge difference. But there is a moral case to
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  make as well about who we are as a country, what we believe in
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  and what we thought, what what we are for.
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  And I don't think we win by seeking to out reform, reform.
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  I mean, you talk about the moral case.
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  Is there an intellectual case? Is there a red thread that runs
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  through the Labour project at the moment?
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  A lot of people are really struggling to see, you know
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  what, what is the the guiding belief that unites all of the
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  things that you are doing that makes them more than just a sort
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  of a shopping list of transactions.
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  So for me, it's about the opportunity that we give not
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  just to our young people, but to working people right across the
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  country. So it's about the power of
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  government to change lives, to open up opportunities, but to
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  give people freedom to choose what they want to do in life, to
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  choose their calling and their cause and for our young people
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  to not be held back because of their circumstances and their
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  family background. The Labour Party has always been
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  been about how you break that link between background and
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  success. It's why tackling child poverty
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  is such a big priority for me. It will be my number one
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  priority as deputies leader because while we have a
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  situation where millions of children in our country grew up
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  in poverty, they It's not just a question of those families being
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  poorer. We are all poorer, we all
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  suffer. I.
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  Mean, do you think that's survives the current modern
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  political environment, which is very driven by social media that
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  is very rigged in terms of the algorithm and the mood of
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  politics, in which people aren't really that interested in
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  statistics they don't necessarily believe or
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  understand? It's a lot to do with feel,
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  isn't it? It is.
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  We've got to adapt and we've got to get our message across in a
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  much more effective way. I've heard that from members.
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  I agree we've got to tell that story, but it's also, it's not
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  just enough to tell, you've actually got to show it in
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  reality. And that's why the change that
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  people will see in their communities will be critical.
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  Look, I do see the polls. I mean, of course I see them.
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  I've all, you know, you're a politician, you look at the
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  polls, but polls represent how people feel at this moment in
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  time. They're not a prediction of the
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  future. They can't predict what's going
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  to come. It is within our power to turn
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  that around to secure that second term Labour government.
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  And why I want to be deputy leader is to be out there making
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  the case not, not just for what we're delivering now, but what
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  more we have to do and bring our members and our movement
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  together. But in government, we don't do
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  that by throwing stones from the outside.
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  But what makes you think that that will turn around, given you
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  already have a story to tell on certain on your own department
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  and another cabinet minister here saying, well, we've done
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  this, that and the other and it doesn't seem to be being felt by
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  the electorate. What What makes you think that
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  there will come a point when these incremental changes are
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  suddenly felt and everybody goes, oh, they are changing the
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  country? But people are impatient for
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  change. I'm impatient for that and I'm
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  I'm ambitious for what we can do.
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  We're a little more than a year into this government.
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  I mean, have we got everything right?
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  No, of course we haven't. I'd be the first to accept it.
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  But we have done some amazing, brilliant Labour things that our
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  members can be proud of. We've got to do more, but
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  there's a long, long road to run until that next general
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  election, and I do believe that we can turn it around.
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  And, and how do you accelerate the pace of change?
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  Well, you know, that's, that's rhetoric at the moment.
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  You can promise that. Well, I just the question is
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  when do people feel it? Well, I've just delivered some
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  of it in the conference hall with the announcement I've made
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  today that this Labour government will be introducing
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  new targeted maintenance grants for less well off students to
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  have the chance to go with the college.
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  We don't know how. Much we don't.
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  Know how much we'll be setting out all the detail in the
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  budget, We'll set out the detail, but this is going to be
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  a significant change that will make a really big difference to
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  young people in our country. I mean, even that is unpopular
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  with some parts of the party here, isn't it?
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  I mean it's been criticised as stupid by MPs like Alex Sobel.
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  Sorry, what? Your maintenance grants policy
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  because they say it's taking money away from universities.
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  No, we will raise money from the international students levy and
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  and invest in support for domestic students.
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  I I do believe that is the right thing to do and we'll do what
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  we're doing. That because the Conservatives
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  pulled away maintenance grant support from less well off
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  students. That's having a really big
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  impact on students and on the cost of living and that is a
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  choice that I have made to prioritise investing in those
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  who need it the most. That is a labour choice.
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  How close are you to Keir Starmer?
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  I'm close to him, of course I am.
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  I'm in his cabinet. He's our Prime Minister.
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  All of us as party members, whether in the cabinet or out,
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  should want the Prime Minister and our government to succeed
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  and I that's what I've heard from our members.
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  Would you, would you be working very closely as a team or would
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  you, do you see yourself as sort of a step removed as deputy
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  leader? Yeah, I would be working closely
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  with our Prime Minister, but I'd also be working closely with our
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  counsellors, with our mayors, with our movement.
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  I mean that's what I do at the moment.
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  That's my record. And I think if you look at the
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  support that I've secured, not just from MPs but also from many
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  of our big affiliated trade unions, that's because they
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  recognise the work that we've done together and they have put
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  confidence in me to be that link between our the movement in the
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  country and our members and government.
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  And, and would you have the strength and the independence if
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  it came to it, to tell the Prime Minister the hardest thing,
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  which might be it's not working, you're not up to it.
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  You know, if you needed to, I'm not saying you would ever get to
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  that point, but do you have the independence and the strength of
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  mind as a deputy leader with your own mandate, elected to
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  deliver the tough news to the leader if it comes to it?
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  Look, if you speak to any of my colleagues, those in cabinet and
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  outside the Cabinet, they'll know that I'm someone that does
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  say what I think and I will do that forcefully behind closed
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  doors. What you won't see me doing is
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  out there undermining our government, making it harder for
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  us to win that second term. But I make and win arguments and
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  I deliver for our members. That's what I've delivered at
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  conference. It's what I've delivered in the
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  last year or so as education secretary.
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  And, and this theme that the conference has delivered has
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  developed against reform, about sort of going against our, you
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  know, British nature, if you like.
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  Where does that go next? Because I mean, one of the
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  criticisms I think of this government, I've heard a lot
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  here is that you announce things.
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  You haven't been building the arguments and making the case
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  very well. So you announce digital ID, you
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  announce recognition of Palestine, but you haven't taken
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  the public and the party on a journey towards those places.
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  Is this going to be a sustained attack and campaign do you
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  think? Yes, I mean, we're in the fight
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  of our lives with reform, but it's not just about the Labour
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  Party. In fact, the Labour Party is
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  secondary in this. This is about our country and
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  our country's future and why we do have to build a Britain where
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  everyone can get on and where we reject the politics of division
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  peddled by Farage. Right, five quick ones I'll put
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  to Lucy as well. What's the most listened to song
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  on your? Playlist Bell and Sebastian,
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  Various Bell and Sebastian songs.
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  My favorite band. If you weren't a politician,
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  what would you? Be I'd be running a bookshop.
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  What's your guilty pleasure? Watching Netflix Tony.
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  Blair or Gordon Brown? Tony Blair.
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  Do you have a hobby and what is it?
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  I play hockey for a women's hockey team.
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  Bridget Phillipson, thank you very much indeed.
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  Thank you. And that's the forecast.
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  Bye bye.