Latest / Decisions, Decisions / EP 494: Freak With Limits feat. Connie

Transcript

EP 494: Freak With Limits feat. Connie · Decisions, Decisions

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: That's the other thing that pisses me off sometimes going
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: to the play party. It's like, it doesn't feel like
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: anybody's checking for anybody else. You came with all the
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: bitches that you're about to have an orgy with and
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: you have the scene planned already.
• 0:11
  Speaker 2: I've seen that so much and I'm like, dang, is
• 0:12
  Speaker 2: there no more? If you're a woman that wants to
• 0:15
  Speaker 2: be married. Yes.
• 0:16
  Speaker 3: If you even are entering a dynamic with a couple
• 0:21
  Speaker 3: that's already married, bitch, you can't get married in this dynamic.
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: Well, not to them, but you can marry somebody else.
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: In terms of like, For instance, on tube sites like YouPorn, RedTube, whatever,
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: when you look at categories like Ebony Latina, those are
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: still like top performing categories for those sites. And personally,
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: I don't think those categories should exist.
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: What?
• 0:49
  Speaker 4: Decisions, decisions.
• 0:51
  Speaker 3: Hey guys, welcome to another episode of Decisions, Decisions. It's
• 0:56
  Speaker 3: your girl Mandy V, a.k.a. Peg the Stallion, a.k.a. Peggy Marco, a.k.a.
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: That Beach.
• 1:02
  Speaker 4: Welcome back, everybody.
• 1:03
  Speaker 5: It's a threesome today, and this episode is actually going
• 1:07
  Speaker 5: to be a part two. So if you're part of
• 1:09
  Speaker 5: our Patreon and you know our guests and you really
• 1:12
  Speaker 5: want the ho shit, we're trying to keep it a little... Actually, no,
• 1:15
  Speaker 5: this is still rated R. It's just not rated X.
• 1:18
  Speaker 3: And before we start this week's episode, I do want
• 1:20
  Speaker 3: to remind everyone that October is Breast Cancer Awareness Month.
• 1:25
  Speaker 3: So please, please, please, please, please, ladies, go get those mammograms.
• 1:29
  Speaker 3: Know your status. Fill them titties. And if you can,
• 1:32
  Speaker 3: make sure you donate. There are numerous breast cancer awareness
• 1:37
  Speaker 3: organizations out there that help the people going through breast cancer.
• 1:41
  Speaker 3: So I just wanted to let that be known all month.
• 1:43
  Speaker 3: Make sure you make a difference.
• 1:45
  Speaker 4: Now, speaking of titties, yours are out and about. We
• 1:50
  Speaker 4: have Connie, a.k.a.
• 1:51
  Speaker 5: On IG, one of my favorite accounts, First Date Diaries,
• 1:55
  Speaker 5: for the hoes and the romantics.
• 1:56
  Speaker 4: Clap it up, everybody.
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: Ew.
• 1:59
  Speaker 4: So I was reading the bio on you, and I
• 2:04
  Speaker 4: don't know if I ever knew.
• 2:05
  Speaker 5: I knew you were queer and poly because that's your shit. Dom,
• 2:09
  Speaker 5: award-winning sex educator and a porn scholar.
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: Now, what is a porn scholar?
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: I went to Brown University for undergrad, and I majored
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: in gender and sexuality studies, as one does. I thought
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: I wanted to be psychology and Africana studies because I
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: thought I was going to be a therapist specializing in
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: racial trauma. That's what I applied to do. And then
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: I took my first social psych class, and it wasn't
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: what I wanted it to be.
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: Very science-y, huh? It was very science-y.
• 2:39
  Speaker 4: And.
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: It was very white.
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: And somehow, I guess my writing style just didn't feel
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: like it was meshing and gelling well in that class.
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: But at the same time, I was taking intro to
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: gender and sexuality studies kind of as a why not
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: sort of class. And the answers I think I was
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: looking for going for a psych and Africana track, I
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: actually ended up finding in a gender studies course anyway,
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: because it is so interdisciplinary and black feminist studies is
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: so foundational to gender studies, sexuality studies, period.
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: So I was like, let me keep going with that.
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: And then my second semester of freshman year, I took
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: a philosophy of sex class, which was mind blowing.
• 3:23
  Speaker 4: That sounds like it would even be a good book.
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: It was.
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: I hope that the professor writes it. They were working
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: with a grad student towards the end of my time
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: at Brown. And I was a research assistant on that project.
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: So it was consent and sexual ethics.
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: It was so cool. Boy, don't we need that right now.
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: Where's the porn? With the goddamn Cornell 7. Hell yeah.
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: So that was the final unit in the course was ethical.
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: Can pornography be ethical? And what would make it ethical
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: in terms of production, in terms of content? And one
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: of the production companies that came up was Erica Lust Films.
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: Oh, of course.
• 3:55
  Speaker 4: We love Erica Lust.
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: So me, baby freshman.
• 3:58
  Speaker 4: No, we went to watch porn with her.
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: You did? She did a VR film. She did a
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: VR film.
• 4:03
  Speaker 3: And so you were watching it through the lens of?
• 4:05
  Speaker 3: a woman and she films it for the female gaze.
• 4:09
  Speaker 3: Cause you know, porn is not really shot that way.
• 4:11
  Speaker 5: And another interesting fact about Erica Lust. I used to
• 4:13
  Speaker 5: talk about this a lot in the beginning of the show.
• 4:15
  Speaker 5: She would have users submit their fantasies and create movies
• 4:18
  Speaker 5: on them, based on them. I don't know if she
• 4:20
  Speaker 5: necessarily does that as much anymore, but one of my
• 4:22
  Speaker 5: favorites was like a woman that had a weird fantasy
• 4:25
  Speaker 5: about bread and like baking.
• 4:27
  Speaker 4: Which is like so girly pop.
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: But wait, what was the fantasy about bread?
• 4:31
  Speaker 5: Just like a bread maker and like it being messy
• 4:34
  Speaker 5: and all this shit.
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: And the bitch made it. Wait, she was having sex?
• 4:37
  Speaker 4: Yes, like in a bakery. And you just see mess
• 4:40
  Speaker 4: with like flour and all this shit all over the place.
• 4:42
  Speaker 4: And who would have thought it could be sexy? But
• 4:44
  Speaker 4: you see those white powder and then cut.
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: With a man though. Correct.
• 4:47
  Speaker 3: Okay, because I'm thinking American Pie, he's fucking a pie.
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: That's what I was going to say. I'm like, are
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: we fucking the bread? Wait, is there a man in
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: this thing?
• 4:54
  Speaker 5: Oh, also the other thing, you know, Erika Lust films
• 4:57
  Speaker 5: always prioritize the female orgasm. That's like the center of her,
• 5:02
  Speaker 5: I don't know if I was going to say vicious state,
• 5:04
  Speaker 5: but you know what I'm saying.
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: I mean, essentially, yes.
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: And I think, I saw that, so freshman me was like,
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: I would love to work for them. So I sent
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: a little email. I cold emailed them, sent them my resume.
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: You probably don't have any use for me, blah, blah, blah.
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: They totally said no. But then four months later, they
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: were like, actually, we have like a communications internship paid
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: opening up.
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: Do you want to take it? And I took it.
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: What did that look like? Like, what was your role?
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: It was I ended up doing partnerships for them.
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: So I developed a suite of presentations that they could
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: give at the university level. So I partnered them with
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: Cardiff University, Stanford, McGill, Brown as well. so overseas and
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: in the U.S., and we worked with Kali Sudra, who presented,
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: Erica Lust herself presented, and it was really dope. So
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: I got to help them build student partnerships because it's
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: a younger demographic that they struggle with the most to
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: get to pay for, like, how do you get young
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: people to pay for porn, you know?
• 5:58
  Speaker 4: Wait, so is paying part of the ethics?
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: Yes, it is.
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: So there was this one study done by the University
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: of Delphi in 2017, Australia, where they got a panel
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: together of a bunch of different sexperts, essentially, and they
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: were trying to kind of get to the nitty gritty
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: of what would make pornography ethical to begin with, because
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: there's not really any scholarship on it, at least when
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: I was doing my research. But they said that a
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: primary feature of it is that performers are paid for
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: their labor.
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: Like, that is huge.
• 6:26
  Speaker 5: I'm gonna be honest with you. I don't know if
• 6:28
  Speaker 5: this is considered a hot take, because I'm all for it.
• 6:31
  Speaker 4: Still am, will always be. I do not think we can.
• 6:36
  Speaker 5: Say that the labor of a porn star is worth
• 6:38
  Speaker 5: more than any type of other creator. I am watching
• 6:41
  Speaker 5: phenomenal creators making stuff, whether it be about designing their
• 6:45
  Speaker 5: own homes, enjoying travel, food, and I'm not paying.
• 6:49
  Speaker 4: To access that.
• 6:50
  Speaker 5: Now, I do think there could be another level of
• 6:54
  Speaker 5: porn we could be paying for. Maybe we're just getting previews,
• 6:56
  Speaker 5: maybe the privates, things like that. But no, I think
• 6:59
  Speaker 5: there should be kind of a distinction between why The
• 7:03
  Speaker 5: fucking should be worth more than what anyone else is doing.
• 7:06
  Speaker 5: We don't pay for podcasts either. You know what I'm saying?
• 7:09
  Speaker 5: Because I see free porn on Twitter all the time.
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: Well, yeah. They use it as a marketing tool now.
• 7:15
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: But I think.
• 7:16
  Speaker 3: It's harder for, unfortunately, that type of content to be
• 7:20
  Speaker 3: free because of the laws around where it's visible for us. Like,
• 7:24
  Speaker 3: we don't get to just scroll TikTok and see dick
• 7:27
  Speaker 3: and vagina.
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean? Not yet.
• 7:30
  Speaker 3: Twitter is different, of course, right now, but I think
• 7:33
  Speaker 3: it's because of how it's still viewed and the legalization
• 7:35
  Speaker 3: of it and essentially what it is across state lines.
• 7:38
  Speaker 5: Because I thought when you said ethics, it was going
• 7:40
  Speaker 5: to be like making sure the performer is protected.
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, absolutely. Those are definitely... other parts of it.
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: And when I did write my paper or thesis or whatever,
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: it's definitely has to do with, you know, centering orgasmic pleasure,
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: especially for women and also thinking about how we're treating
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: identifiers as well and not like fetishizing people over.
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: So in terms of like, for instance, on.
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: Tube sites, like YouPorn, RedTube, whatever, when you look at
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: categories like Ebony Latina, those are still like top performing
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: categories for those Sites. And personally, I don't think those
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: categories should exist.
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: What? Yeah. I don't think. Oh, Naga. No, no, no.
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: Get her out of here. I mean that. Why shouldn't
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: they exist?
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: I just think that the idea. First of all, do
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: we call each other Ebony? Have you ever called yourself
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: as a.
• 8:33
  Speaker 4: Black woman Ebony? So you want to just be black?
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: I mean, I'm not mad at Ebony magazine. You know
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: what I mean? You should be able to search for
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: just like if you're just looking for black porn. Absolutely. However, like.
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: When we think about the category of Ebony and specifically
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: tube site porn in general is, and this was something
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: that I had argued, but like it's capitalizing off of
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: like racial tension and the idea, like the trope of
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: the revision of the black woman to begin with.
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: And I just think that I take issue with that personally.
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: And like, also when you search up Ebony too, there's
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: still like, I don't think that there should be like,
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: slave and white master role play, picking any type shit, like,
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: as a, as a, like a tableau for porn.
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: But what if it, what would be the alt? What
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: would be the alternative?
• 9:18
  Speaker 4: If it wasn't Ebony?
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: I actually don't like, I want to see that. Absolutely. Absolutely.
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: I think like you should be able to search for
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: those things. I'm a big fan of Pink and White Productions,
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: which was started by Shine Louise Houston.
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: She's a queer black woman. And like that whole site
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: is just black and brown performers.
• 9:39
  Speaker 4: But as far as a tube site, which has categories.
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 9:43
  Speaker 5: How can I specify? Like, I'm gonna be honest with you.
• 9:45
  Speaker 5: I'm starting to like really enjoy.
• 9:49
  Speaker 5: Watching asphyxiation in porn. But I type in black choking kink.
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: Yes. Just to know, or I'll type in ebony.
• 9:58
  Speaker 4: Just to know I'll die. get it in the porn.
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: Absolutely.
• 10:01
  Speaker 4: So now I'm about to get a bunch of what?
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: No, it's not that.
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: I think you should be able, like the user themselves
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: should be able, I mean, like what you search up
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: is what you search up and you need to have
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: those tags associated with videos so somebody can find the
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: right video for them. However, when you do that dropdown box,
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: The category white does not appear in there. And I
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: just mean that for me, it's the implications of those categories, A,
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: being the top performing categories in terms of like, well,
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: obviously I want to watch black and brown women.
• 10:31
  Speaker 4: I see what you're saying. There's Ebony, Latina, Asian, Indian.
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: But there's not a white category.
• 10:36
  Speaker 3: But there's not even, if we think of the distinction
• 10:39
  Speaker 3: between films as well.
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: Yes. Like not porn, but films. Yes. You have your Korean.
• 10:45
  Speaker 3: But that's international, though. No, but what I'm saying is
• 10:49
  Speaker 3: they never distinct white films either.
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: But you do have black cult classics.
• 10:54
  Speaker 3: We identify what movies are for us a lot of
• 10:57
  Speaker 3: times as well. When you go to film festivals, they
• 11:00
  Speaker 3: have black film festivals. Like they just had one in
• 11:03
  Speaker 3: Atlanta a couple weeks ago. And so to me, the
• 11:05
  Speaker 3: distinction is that there is a subgenre of that.
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: Absolutely. Like they don't say white music. It's pop. They don't.
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean? But then we have R & B.
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: We have urban.
• 11:14
  Speaker 3: We now have urban contemporary for black country artists.
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: So to me, I think.
• 11:19
  Speaker 4: Pop music definitely is not just white anymore, though.
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: No, no, no. I'm not saying it's just white, but
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: they're not going to ever call it white pop. They're
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: not going to call it white pop is what I'm saying.
• 11:27
  Speaker 3: So, to me, the distinction isn't bad because even when
• 11:32
  Speaker 3: we go to bookstores, there's black books. Like, I'm not
• 11:36
  Speaker 3: mad about distinctions within any category to.
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: Identify us as what we want to watch.
• 11:44
  Speaker 5: If we're talking about minorities by the definition themselves, I
• 11:48
  Speaker 5: guess that's.
• 11:48
  Speaker 4: What makes sense.
• 11:49
  Speaker 5: But I see where you're going by saying if the
• 11:53
  Speaker 5: top categories are.
• 11:54
  Speaker 4: XYZ, But I don't know.
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: It's more like.
• 11:57
  Speaker 5: The tube sites themselves, maybe the titling could use some
• 12:00
  Speaker 5: better ethics.
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: It's specifically the tube sites that I take issue with
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: and specifically thinking about who owns them, who's setting up
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: these platforms. So I'm thinking about it definitely in more
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: of a meta way. Because like when you go on
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: to Hulu, for instance, and it's like February, what do
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: you see?
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: Black voices. Yep. And you know how we feel about that.
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: I'm not mad at that. But I'm not saying that
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: they should.
• 12:19
  Speaker 4: Wait, what do you mean? How do we feel about that?
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: How do you feel about it? How do I feel
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: about that? Because, girl, I'm. I'll be like, yeah. I'm
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: here for it.
• 12:24
  Speaker 4: It's the heritage ones right now.
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: Of course.
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: I think the category, it's not that we don't want
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: to be highlighting these stories. It's just more like, even
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: with Pride Month, all of a sudden Apple has the
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: rainbow flag going on. And all of these corporate companies
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: that are making a ton of money off of the
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: sort of the cosplay that they are really supporting or
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: because we know that Apple isn't necessarily for queer rights.
• 12:52
  Speaker 4: It's not like Chick-fil-A did it.
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: No, absolutely. I think it's more just like, to what
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: effect is this serving?
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: And I don't believe that the U-porn or, you know,
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: Pornhub is specifically there to uplift black porn performers. That
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: is not the purpose of the ebony category, if that
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: makes sense. And I don't think it's where it emerges from. However,
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: and also, we should absolutely be able to search for
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: And be able to distinguish if we're looking for black
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: women performers.
• 13:20
  Speaker 4: So you know what the tube site is to me?
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 13:23
  Speaker 5: We all know they don't get paid a lot from
• 13:24
  Speaker 5: the tube sites, correct? We know we have to use
• 13:27
  Speaker 5: Amazon because it's one of the largest commodities.
• 13:29
  Speaker 4: You need something quick.
• 13:30
  Speaker 5: It's not easy for a New Yorker to not use Uber, right?
• 13:34
  Speaker 5: I look at the tube sites sometimes like that. It's
• 13:37
  Speaker 5: such a large conglomerate.
• 13:39
  Speaker 4: Of porn and media. It's almost hard to avoid it.
• 13:43
  Speaker 4: People that are.
• 13:45
  Speaker 5: able to spend, can then now directly go straight to,
• 13:49
  Speaker 5: you know, direct to consumer is OnlyFans. But it's hard
• 13:54
  Speaker 5: to control that because I don't think Pornhub gives a
• 13:56
  Speaker 5: fuck about black people, but I also don't think Hulu
• 13:58
  Speaker 5: does either. But I can also appreciate and enjoy that
• 14:02
  Speaker 5: they've made something for me, who's paying $ 15. 99 a month
• 14:05
  Speaker 5: with no ads.
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: Absolutely.
• 14:07
  Speaker 4: To like, I don't know, it's weird. I feel what
• 14:09
  Speaker 4: you're saying.
• 14:10
  Speaker 5: I just hired a social media agency and fired them
• 14:12
  Speaker 5: within two weeks.
• 14:14
  Speaker 4: Do tell. One of the things I said.
• 14:16
  Speaker 5: On the call that I appreciated, they weren't black. It's
• 14:20
  Speaker 5: for my gym trap house. I guess everything I do
• 14:23
  Speaker 5: is black. But specifically, that is a black message. Our
• 14:26
  Speaker 5: podcast studio isn't like black messaging all the time. It's
• 14:29
  Speaker 5: cool that it's black owned, but I know people fuck
• 14:31
  Speaker 5: with trap house because it's black. So they said to me,
• 14:35
  Speaker 5: what do you guys want as far as how deep
• 14:37
  Speaker 5: you want to go in with the months? I was like, oh,
• 14:40
  Speaker 5: tell me more. She's like, for example, Black History Month,
• 14:44
  Speaker 5: we can already understand. is one we're going to celebrate,
• 14:47
  Speaker 5: Women History Month. She's like, but Breast Cancer Awareness Month
• 14:51
  Speaker 5: is coming and Hispanic Heritage Month is coming.
• 14:53
  Speaker 4: This was last month.
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: And it's Mental Health Awareness Month.
• 14:55
  Speaker 4: And she goes, yeah.
• 14:56
  Speaker 5: She's like, how many of those is your gym supposed
• 14:59
  Speaker 5: to cover? What's a real story in with what's happening
• 15:02
  Speaker 5: in these months that doesn't make you look like you're
• 15:05
  Speaker 5: doing too much? And that was probably the best thing
• 15:07
  Speaker 5: I had heard. She's like, can't do a mental awareness
• 15:09
  Speaker 5: class unless you've probably talked about it or you can
• 15:12
  Speaker 5: tie it to something you do. Hispanic Heritage has made
• 15:15
  Speaker 5: sense because of Brianda.
• 15:16
  Speaker 4: She's one of the owners.
• 15:17
  Speaker 5: Breast Cancer Awareness Month definitely makes sense because the women ran.
• 15:22
  Speaker 5: But she's like, you can't do every single month because
• 15:24
  Speaker 5: the first thing people will say is you're inauthentic.
• 15:28
  Speaker 4: But you also cannot do them. And I think companies
• 15:30
  Speaker 4: may have a hard time. To me, here's the ones
• 15:33
  Speaker 4: you got to hit.
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: What's Apple got to hit?
• 15:35
  Speaker 4: We all got the phone, all right? We know Black
• 15:37
  Speaker 4: History Month, Women's History Month, Pride Month.
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: I would pick a cancer. I would pick a cancer.
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: I'm dead ass.
• 15:44
  Speaker 4: We all know somebody, right?
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: Oh, absolutely.
• 15:46
  Speaker 4: My aunt's cervical, your best friend's breast.
• 15:48
  Speaker 5: Like, we all got somebody. And then I would say
• 15:50
  Speaker 5: Hispanic heritage, AAPI.
• 15:53
  Speaker 3: Well, not only that, then you have all the holidays
• 15:54
  Speaker 3: to hit in between. So, I mean, what are we
• 15:58
  Speaker 3: talking about here?
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: I think, like, it was something that I wanted to trouble,
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: especially since, like, for my work, I was coming from
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: the perspective of Black feminist studies, which, to be clear—
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: a lot of black feminist theories, foundational ones, including Audre Lorde,
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: including Patricia Hill Collins, all demonized.
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: Like they're like porn. No, absolutely not.
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: Because the only thing that we're doing is like recapitulating
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: racial stereotypes over and over again, which I don't agree with.
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: I was arguing for, I'm pro-porn. That is, I think
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: that it ends up being a scapegoat for a lot
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: of social ills when we have to remember that There
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: are people filming this. What are they filming? Why are
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: they choosing to film it? And then also I wanted
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: to ask, well, there's a lot of black women porn directors.
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: What are they getting out of this? It's obviously something
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: that they enjoy. And why would it be important for
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: a black woman to film porn, to star in porn,
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: or a black woman to watch porn? And so it's
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: absolutely necessary. I just personally believe that the tube sites...
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: And we're all going to watch it. Yes, I get
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: onto X videos every once in a while if I'm
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: looking for something real niche, that Erika Lust or whoever.
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: Do you pay for most of your porn? I do.
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: I do.
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: I still pay for Erika Lust and X Confessions, but
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: it comes with a suite. I don't think you have
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: to pay separately for either of them.
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: I use Cheeks as well. Cheeks is good.
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: They've got some great stuff. And you also get to
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: see the cross performers. Like, for instance, Bishop Black.
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: Is on every... Bishop Black is everywhere. You know what
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: I'm saying? Kali Sue Dredd's everywhere, you know? So, yeah, I.
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: It's important to me because I can afford it and
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: then be like, if I'm going to pay for HBO Max,
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: if I'm going to pay for Amazon Prime, if I'm
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: going to pay for Peacock.
• 17:35
  Speaker 4: Nah, I'll give you that. You ain't lying on that one.
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: That's what I'm saying. Like, I think it's a value
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: judgment at the end of the day.
• 17:40
  Speaker 4: How much porn do you pay for? Because you say
• 17:42
  Speaker 4: you watch it every night or is it every other night?
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: Oh, hello, please tell us more.
• 17:46
  Speaker 3: I sell subscriptions on OnlyFans. I mostly actually pay for
• 17:51
  Speaker 3: trans performers on OnlyFans because... Their content is a little
• 17:56
  Speaker 3: harder to find, especially ones that are like big dick
• 17:59
  Speaker 3: and really attractive. So I support maybe three or four trans,
• 18:06
  Speaker 3: King Noir, and the Stagg couple. So maybe only five
• 18:11
  Speaker 3: subscriptions on OnlyFans.
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: That's a lot.
• 18:13
  Speaker 3: And then everything else is free on Twitter.
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: But it's because.
• 18:16
  Speaker 4: You masturbate on Twitter?
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: Yes. I mean, as you should. Actually, there's great pegging
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: content on Twitter.
• 18:21
  Speaker 3: There's a pegging couple I've been wanting to bring on here.
• 18:23
  Speaker 3: They're great, but I think they live in... Boston or Connecticut?
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: They could get down here.
• 18:27
  Speaker 4: Connecticut. Yeah, I want to.
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: I want to.
• 18:29
  Speaker 3: And there's another pegging couple that live in the Bay.
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: They're great.
• 18:39
  Speaker 3: I am going to admit something very problematic.
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: Y'all know I don't care.
• 18:44
  Speaker 5: Now, y'all know, just from the 15 minutes into this episode,
• 18:47
  Speaker 5: Connie is awake.
• 18:49
  Speaker 4: What you about to say?
• 18:52
  Speaker 3: I've already admitted a couple months ago that I'm into
• 18:55
  Speaker 3: taboo porn.
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: I'm so curious.
• 18:58
  Speaker 3: And they don't shoot a lot of the taboo that
• 19:02
  Speaker 3: I'm currently watching.
• 19:03
  Speaker 4: Not race play.
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: It's not race play. No, I'm not into that.
• 19:07
  Speaker 3: But it's A.I., Wait, wait, explain. I went from hentai
• 19:11
  Speaker 3: to AI. And so, like, it's really, so it's AI porn.
• 19:14
  Speaker 4: I don't think that's crazy.
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: That's not true. Well, first off, it's, they're using data. Oh, wait,
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: it's because it's using AI.
• 19:20
  Speaker 3: It's using the goddamn water to create this shit.
• 19:23
  Speaker 4: And it's like, yes. Yeah, but if you're going to
• 19:25
  Speaker 4: use chat GPT, you're already in it, right?
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: No, no, no, I get that. No, I agree.
• 19:29
  Speaker 3: But I also was like, I ain't going to do
• 19:32
  Speaker 3: the amount of gallons of waters that were used for
• 19:35
  Speaker 3: that goddamn thing.
• 19:38
  Speaker 4: Migos.
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that shit. I was like, not worth it.
• 19:43
  Speaker 4: It's just one video.
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: Don't really need to do it. But I am into
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: AI porn now. Are you generating it yourself? No, no, no, no, no. Oh, okay, okay. Oh, okay, okay. Listen,
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: I had to ask. So it's being generated.
• 19:54
  Speaker 4: You're like, make Lenny Kravitz.
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: Oh, no, no, no. It's terrible.
• 19:59
  Speaker 3: The guys have like eight packs, big old dicks. They're
• 20:03
  Speaker 3: like cheating with I'm not even going to tell you
• 20:07
  Speaker 3: how taboo and nasty it is, but it's really nasty.
• 20:09
  Speaker 4: Are you going to tell us when we get out
• 20:11
  Speaker 4: of the hall?
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: It's really inappropriate. Don't be ashamed of your porn. No, no, no.
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: It's really inappropriate. No, I'm ashamed of mine.
• 20:18
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: Is the sexiness or the interest in it? It's the
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: taboo of it. It's the taboo that it is AI.
• 20:25
  Speaker 3: It's the taboo of the content that doesn't really get
• 20:28
  Speaker 3: shot with humans.
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: Okay, but what's the content then? Because that's what I
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: want to know.
• 20:32
  Speaker 4: Is it incestual?
• 20:34
  Speaker 3: A little bit of incest and then a lot of.
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: Maybe non-consent. Oh, no, no. Girl, my books.
• 20:44
  Speaker 4: Well, non-consent with A.I.
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: I'm not a C.N.C.
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: Girl in terms of my personal play, but when I
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: am reading my smut novels.
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: Okay, we're going to dig into that. You know what
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: I mean? It's so fucked up. It's fucked up a
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: little bit.
• 20:55
  Speaker 5: We are definitely going to dig into that horrible because, yeah.
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: I'm sorry.
• 20:59
  Speaker 5: No, no.
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: I think with AI too, you know, you're just, yeah.
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 21:04
  Speaker 4: Okay.
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: I'm with you. Okay. We'll do that on horrible.
• 21:09
  Speaker 5: So we're going to react to one of your videos,
• 21:12
  Speaker 5: which I thought was very interesting and great discussion because
• 21:18
  Speaker 5: Mandy has a chapter about this in No Holds Barred.
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: So. You're gonna date a married man. There are three
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: mistakes you cannot make and I'll give you examples for
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: each because I did do that shit. And technically I'm
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: still doing it but he's not married anymore and that
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: is not my fault.
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: To set the scene I went to a femdom munch
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: in northern London and I see this tall ass scrumptious
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: looking motherfucker and I'm like I want to go talk
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: to this guy.
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: I'm with my girl and we go up to him.
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: He's talking to this other dude. We were hanging out.
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: We were chatting. Comes up that he's married and they
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: just opened up their relationship. Never ever ever ever. date, fuck,
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: play with, dom, a married man that just opened up
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: his relationship because they have not, and I guarantee you,
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: figured out their dynamic yet. Like, I'm being blinded by
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: gorgeous sexiness, so we just start talking about, well, what
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: are your boundaries? How do you all feel? And he's like,
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: my wife is.
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: Down and cool with me playing with other people. The
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: day comes for us to go to Club Thumbdom together
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: and we go and get a drink. And this is
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: exactly where I went wrong because I should have grilled
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: him harder. You have to grill them. on their dynamics,
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: even if they say, oh, our boundaries are established, this
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: is what I can do and what I can't do, no.
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: You need to get in the weeds because his wife
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: was not okay with him taking me out on a date.
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: We did not find out any of this until we
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: had A, gone on the date, and then went and
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: played at this event, which he apparently was totally fine with.
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: We had floated the idea of going to Pedestal, another
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: femdom event, and KV together.
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: It was only when I texted him with both of
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: those ticket links that he tells me my wife was
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: not okay with what we did together, we should take
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: a pause. And I immediately stepped all the way back
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: because third mistake, which I luckily did not make. It
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: is not your job to give them advice. It is
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: not your job to be the holier than thou E &
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: M person that is their relationship.
• 22:53
  Speaker 4: Since we have you here, what advice did you give
• 22:56
  Speaker 4: that man after that?
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: I did not. I gave him no advice because it
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: wasn't my, it's his marriage. You know what I'm saying?
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: And I wasn't there to interject and to be like, well,
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: y'all should be doing this and you should have known better.
• 23:10
  Speaker 3: That's their relationship. This to me wasn't advice at all
• 23:12
  Speaker 3: about dating married men. This advice to me was advice
• 23:15
  Speaker 3: on entering a.
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: Dynamic. Yeah.
• 23:19
  Speaker 3: So for me, none of your advice to me lended
• 23:22
  Speaker 3: to the fact that he was married and more so
• 23:24
  Speaker 3: landed to the fact that him and his partner weren't
• 23:27
  Speaker 3: yet on the same page. So a couple of years ago,
• 23:30
  Speaker 3: I shared and was dating a couple.
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: I came into the couple. The man was black. The
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: woman was Asian.
• 23:37
  Speaker 3: And he was looking for a girlfriend. Met them on field,
• 23:41
  Speaker 3: but connected to him. He then later added her.
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: And when we all got.
• 23:45
  Speaker 3: Together, there was clearly a miscommunication in how she wanted
• 23:49
  Speaker 3: a woman to join the couple. That was the one issue.
• 23:52
  Speaker 3: The second one probably had to do with the fact
• 23:58
  Speaker 3: that I'm Dom only. She was super sub.
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: He was Dom. And when we all.
• 24:04
  Speaker 3: Finally got to play, it was clearly uncomfortable that I
• 24:09
  Speaker 3: domed him. Because she had never domed him ever. It
• 24:13
  Speaker 3: wasn't their dynamic.
• 24:13
  Speaker 4: Fascinating.
• 24:14
  Speaker 3: And so after we got done, she let me know
• 24:18
  Speaker 3: that she no longer wanted us to talk solo.
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: She said, you're not a girlfriend. You're our partner. And
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: I was like, oh, yeah, no.
• 24:26
  Speaker 3: That's not what I'm looking for. There's not enough money here.
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.
• 24:30
  Speaker 4: What were you looking for?
• 24:31
  Speaker 3: I wanted to be a unicorn, but I wanted to
• 24:34
  Speaker 3: date a couple.
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.
• 24:35
  Speaker 3: And it was clearly like she didn't want me to
• 24:38
  Speaker 3: have a relationship with him. And for me, I was
• 24:41
  Speaker 3: just like, oh, because I think there was a sense
• 24:45
  Speaker 3: of maybe some level of insecurity with how me and
• 24:49
  Speaker 3: him were connecting. Clearly, me and him were doing things.
• 24:52
  Speaker 3: Different things sexually, which you experienced also in your dynamic.
• 24:56
  Speaker 3: But then she was like, there's only one girlfriend here.
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: Right. Well, I'm not just here to.
• 25:02
  Speaker 3: Add to the fun of the bedroom. I want intimacy.
• 25:06
  Speaker 3: I want to be able to feel loved by both
• 25:08
  Speaker 3: of you, not.
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: Just together, if that makes sense.
• 25:12
  Speaker 3: So she was super cool.
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: But that's another thing. Well, me and her then sat separately.
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: We ended up going to lunch.
• 25:19
  Speaker 3: Because he had to go do some real estate stuff.
• 25:22
  Speaker 3: she started like complaining to me about him.
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: Oh, hell no.
• 25:27
  Speaker 3: I ain't nobody therapist, but also like, I don't want
• 25:30
  Speaker 3: to come into a dynamic where you're now telling me
• 25:33
  Speaker 3: the things you don't like about him because I haven't
• 25:36
  Speaker 3: experienced that yet. And I probably won't. So like, but
• 25:39
  Speaker 3: I'm also not going to be in the middle of y'all.
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: So to me, it was more like that.
• 25:41
  Speaker 4: Do you think they're still doing and looking for people? Probably.
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: I don't know. You think that you would have been like,
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: I could see that. I haven't come across. I mean,
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: I'm not on any dating apps, so I haven't seen it.
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: Not at all. No dating apps for me. I'm very
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: curious about yours.
• 25:57
  Speaker 3: I'm on Raya, but that's not to date. It's like
• 26:00
  Speaker 3: for me to meet. Yeah, it's literally networking. And so, yeah,
• 26:06
  Speaker 3: to me, that definitely leaned into an E & M dynamic.
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: Absolutely.
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: And I think, to your point, I could have definitely
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: caveated that a little bit better because it definitely was
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: suited for advice of how do you know how to
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: enter a dynamic and whether or not someone's dynamic feels
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: right for you to, like, be even starting to step into, not, like,
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: necessarily over the course of dating someone.
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: A married man, whether.
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: That's separately from his partnership with his spouse or whatever.
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: He was like, a woman.
• 26:36
  Speaker 3: Who wants marriage eventually should not even be dating a
• 26:40
  Speaker 3: couple that's married either.
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: Let's talk about that.
• 26:43
  Speaker 4: Wait, wait, wait.
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: What do you mean?
• 26:44
  Speaker 3: If you're a woman that wants to be married, if
• 26:47
  Speaker 3: you even are entering a dynamic with a Bitch, you
• 26:53
  Speaker 3: can't get married in this dynamic. Well, not to them,
• 26:55
  Speaker 3: but you can marry somebody else.
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: No, but that's what I'm saying.
• 26:57
  Speaker 3: But if you're looking long-term, like to me, like getting
• 27:00
  Speaker 3: into a relationship with a couple, as a woman who
• 27:03
  Speaker 3: has goals to be married, this needs to then be
• 27:06
  Speaker 3: to me.
• 27:06
  Speaker 4: Let's talk about this because this is in my outline, actually.
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: No, I feel like you can talk.
• 27:09
  Speaker 4: You have a.
• 27:10
  Speaker 5: Conversation about why you could be looking for love and
• 27:12
  Speaker 5: be hoeing at the same time.
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: Well, yes.
• 27:15
  Speaker 3: I don't think dating a couple is hoeing, especially if
• 27:18
  Speaker 3: you're an ethically non-monogamous person.
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: Well, yeah, yeah. But to me, if you are a woman...
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: that wants to be.
• 27:24
  Speaker 3: Married, you should find your anchor partner to be married to.
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: You're saying that needs to happen before you were to
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: date a couple? Yes, because if you're dating.
• 27:32
  Speaker 4: A couple that's- Then why are we having casual sex
• 27:34
  Speaker 4: if we want to get married?
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: No, no, no, no. Let me finish. If you want
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: to be married in the U.S. of A- A man
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: cannot marry two women. Yes. Hear me out. Follow me, please.
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: I follow.
• 27:43
  Speaker 3: So if you're a woman who wants to be married,
• 27:46
  Speaker 3: you dealing with a couple to me isn't hoeing. However,
• 27:49
  Speaker 3: you will never be fulfilled with this dynamic because he
• 27:52
  Speaker 3: can never marry you unless he divorces this woman. You
• 27:55
  Speaker 3: break up this institution and then he marries you.
• 27:57
  Speaker 4: Are people dating couples to be with them forever? Yes,
• 28:00
  Speaker 4: they can. They can.
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: But that's what I'm saying. So if you are, depending
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: on what kind of non-monogamous. I don't think ethical non-monogamy
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: is hoeing. I don't like that. Oh, no, no, no. No,
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: absolutely not.
• 28:09
  Speaker 4: Let me rephrase.
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: Oof. No, no, no. I'm curious.
• 28:12
  Speaker 4: I'm absolutely not calling that hoeing.
• 28:14
  Speaker 5: I'm literally just saying your particular, I think verbatim it
• 28:17
  Speaker 5: was like how to have a hoe phase and look
• 28:19
  Speaker 5: for love at the same time.
• 28:20
  Speaker 4: So I was just using that phrase.
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: We're talking all about different things. No, no, no. I'm
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: coming back to your topic in particular.
• 28:25
  Speaker 5: Yeah, but I also want to say I don't think
• 28:28
  Speaker 5: hoeing is bad. I think indulging in non-monogamy is part
• 28:32
  Speaker 5: of ho shit.
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: I do.
• 28:34
  Speaker 4: I don't think that's normie stuff. I think it's like.
• 28:36
  Speaker 5: I think it's ho shit and I think ho shit
• 28:38
  Speaker 5: isn't like something to look down upon.
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: I'm curious about that philosophy. I want to come back
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: around to that. My friends don't fuck other people. I'm
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: very curious. I do.
• 28:45
  Speaker 5: Just because I might care about them or like them
• 28:47
  Speaker 5: first or maybe don't fuck them and I don't know
• 28:49
  Speaker 5: their names.
• 28:50
  Speaker 4: It's still ho shit.
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: I want to circle back around to that. Regarding, though,
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: dating a couple, a married couple. So for me, as
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: I consider myself polyamorous, but neither here nor there, If
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: I started dating a couple, I may not want to
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: marry the man that's in that couple. We're dating, though,
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: and I'm still seeing other people theoretically and might meet
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: the person that I want to marry outside of that couple.
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: So agree. Yeah, exactly.
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: So in my opinion, if I'm dating this couple, let's
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: say we've been in it for like nine months, whatever.
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: I meet someone during that time.
• 29:25
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: We're having a grand ball event. I'm like, dang, I
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: see like my future with this person. I'm still dating
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: this couple.
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: I have no interest in.
• 29:32
  Speaker 3: In a poly dynamic where a couple is, where the
• 29:36
  Speaker 3: boundaries or the polycule allows you to go date.
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: Yes. what I'm saying so it's different and I.
• 29:41
  Speaker 3: Think I'm looking at it more because I want a
• 29:43
  Speaker 3: unicorn like a polyfidelitous poly yes There we go.
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: We got there.
• 29:47
  Speaker 3: So yes, you can still be married and want to
• 29:49
  Speaker 3: be married if that polycule allows you to go and
• 29:52
  Speaker 3: have other male partners.
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: But if you're a throuple together, that shit is closed,
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: and you want to be married, you can't marry.
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: Yes. Okay. I hear you. That makes sense.
• 30:01
  Speaker 3: And I think when we see the polycules, there's a
• 30:05
  Speaker 3: hierarchy that's happening to where as a woman who does
• 30:09
  Speaker 3: want a ring or want.
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: That wife title.
• 30:12
  Speaker 3: entering a dynamic where there's already a wife, you're going
• 30:16
  Speaker 3: to be unfulfilled.
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: It's not going to work. Can you talk about.
• 30:18
  Speaker 4: How in your volume... I love that we got there.
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: Yes, no, we got there. Can I just say I
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: love that we got there? We got there.
• 30:23
  Speaker 4: I'm actually happy that we got there.
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: I was like, that's why I was like, there's not,
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: I feel like there's not, we're not opposed here, but
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: we needed to get there.
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: Here we go.
• 30:29
  Speaker 5: Especially considering like, we've definitely been in dynamics where we've, yeah, like,
• 30:37
  Speaker 5: could want something long-term with someone else, but maybe not
• 30:39
  Speaker 5: the other. So I'm interested in your hierarchy.
• 30:43
  Speaker 4: Dynamics in polyamory.
• 30:44
  Speaker 5: So tell me a little bit about how, what I
• 30:48
  Speaker 5: noticed in most relationships through friends or even through chatting
• 30:52
  Speaker 5: in E & M, most women in my life, not
• 30:57
  Speaker 5: necessarily the men all the time, they can sometimes figure
• 31:00
  Speaker 5: it out. Most women in my life want to at
• 31:03
  Speaker 5: least have one of their partners where they're the primary.
• 31:06
  Speaker 5: They want to have a primary partner. When I've had
• 31:09
  Speaker 5: friends that are indulging in E & M, and they're
• 31:11
  Speaker 5: not the primary in at least one, they tend to
• 31:15
  Speaker 5: seem or feel empty or lost. And I don't know
• 31:19
  Speaker 5: if anyone could relate here to that that we're chatting
• 31:21
  Speaker 5: with today, but Mandy or you, but I have seen
• 31:25
  Speaker 5: this quite a bit. Seems like my friends that have
• 31:27
  Speaker 5: a primary feel more anchored in their own self-worth, being
• 31:32
  Speaker 5: able to go out and have sex with other people
• 31:33
  Speaker 5: and feeling confident. But when it's three to four partners
• 31:36
  Speaker 5: and they're not the primary of either of them, That's
• 31:40
  Speaker 5: where I've seen my friends feel like, I don't know
• 31:42
  Speaker 5: if this is for me.
• 31:42
  Speaker 4: This can feel weird, et cetera.
• 31:44
  Speaker 3: I think you only feel that way if you don't
• 31:47
  Speaker 3: feel valued or respected by those other partners.
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: Absolutely.
• 31:51
  Speaker 3: To me, this year has been the best I've felt
• 31:57
  Speaker 3: in choosing my partners and being able to communicate what
• 32:00
  Speaker 3: I need from them, which is why I do the check-ins.
• 32:02
  Speaker 3: Are you getting everything you need from me? I'm letting
• 32:05
  Speaker 3: them know what I need from them. And as soon
• 32:06
  Speaker 3: as I feel like they're not showing up in how
• 32:08
  Speaker 3: I want them, OK, we need to tap in. And
• 32:10
  Speaker 3: if this doesn't work anymore, it doesn't work. But for me,
• 32:14
  Speaker 3: you only feel empty and lost if it's just casual
• 32:19
  Speaker 3: sex and you're not getting the intimacy, respect, validation or
• 32:23
  Speaker 3: things that you need. in partnership from those partners.
• 32:28
  Speaker 5: Can you really have a true partnership with someone that's
• 32:30
  Speaker 5: not your primary?
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think absolutely.
• 32:33
  Speaker 4: Talk about some of that. Okay.
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: So first of all, I want to just caveat this
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: by saying that my take, again, my word ain't dogma
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: and people really disagree with me on this point. I
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: personally hold firm because it's just my opinion. I don't,
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: There's hierarchy in non-monogamy. It has so much of a
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: place in non-monogamy. I would not identify as polyamorous if
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: I was looking for a hierarchical relationship, personally.
• 32:59
  Speaker 4: Ooh, I like this.
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's just... I.
• 33:03
  Speaker 5: Actually think that's why I can't define as poly.
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: I don't think that, like, I genuinely do believe that
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: if you align yourself to, I have a primary partner, and, like, Yeah,
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: whatever that entails for you. And that person is primary,
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: not a nesting, not an anchor, because I do think
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: that there's a distinction between that. I wouldn't identify as polyamorous.
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: But whenever I say that, like, if it's not polyamory,
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: if it's a hierarchical relationship, people lose their minds. They
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: come for me and I get understand why. But I'm like,
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: there's so much non-monogamy.
• 33:34
  Speaker 3: For the people listening, though, you just used three words.
• 33:37
  Speaker 3: And I want you to distinct between the three. So
• 33:40
  Speaker 3: there's primary.
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 33:42
  Speaker 3: There's nesting.
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: There's anchor. Yes.
• 33:44
  Speaker 3: Those three terms in a hierarchical, polyamorous dynamic.
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 33:48
  Speaker 4: Could you define them?
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: What's the difference between the three? So for me, and again,
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: everybody's going to define this differently.
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: A primary partner is like that is still aligns to
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: like a coupled unit. This is my primary unit of
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: a relationship. And this person takes precedence.
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: Which is the point of it. Over everyone. Over every
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: other person that I'm dating.
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: There's a particular sanctity of this relationship that cannot be compromised,
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: that cannot be moved, that cannot be changed or whatever
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: by any of the other relationships that I have.
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: That is how I would define a primary. And that's,
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: I think, what is the purpose of it.
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: And so anchor and nesting, I do believe, anchor and
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: nesting partners, you can be polyamorous. And I think identify
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: and align yourself with polyamory, feel like you have that connection.
• 34:35
  Speaker 4: What is an anchor and nesting partner?
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: So anchor partners are And nesting partners are about proximity,
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: in my opinion.
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: Location and living with them.
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: Location and living with them, but also, like, proximity in
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: terms of, like, emotions, finances. So, like, what is my
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: literal proximity to this person? I would consider somebody my
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: anchor partner if I see them a lot. We, like,
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: live together definitely for nesting especially. We maybe share finances.
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: I've met all of their family.
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: How is that not a primary? But that's the thing.
• 35:04
  Speaker 4: If you're sharing finances.
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: The thing is, anchors can move.
• 35:08
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: Like, primaries don't move. They're immutable. They're fixed. Like, this
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: is my prime. Unless we break up entirely.
• 35:14
  Speaker 4: Even if they don't live together.
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: Exactly. Like, me and my boyfriend number one. Boyfriend number one.
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: Boyfriend number one. We don't live in the same city.
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: But for sure. Actually, but I have no partners that
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: live in Atlanta.
• 35:26
  Speaker 4: Mm-hmm.
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: So.
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: But that's what I'm saying. So, like, anchors, I think, like,
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: can move in and out. Like, in terms of, like, just.
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: proximity to you in a number of different ways. Again,
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: whether that's finances, where you live, you know, how much
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: of your lives you really do share together. And so some,
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: but if I had an anchor partner that moved to Spain,
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: we maybe see each other less. We have like kind
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: of divested in terms of like financial, whatever. they're no
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: longer necessarily my anchor partner, you know? And so I
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: think that that's, and specifically the importance of this is
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: that my anchor partner does not have veto power. They
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: are not like, my relationship to them is not an
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: immutably like fixed dynamic that none of my other like
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: people I'm seeing like can affect.
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: And I also don't, I guess it's.
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: Also the perspective of like, I love this person more than, like,
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: anybody else that I'm with. And this is the relationship
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: that I'm protecting at all costs.
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: Do you allow veto power? No. Me neither.
• 36:27
  Speaker 3: That just also doesn't make sense to me.
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: Same. In polyamory. I agree. Same. Veto power. And veto
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: power for those of you who are like, what the fuck?
• 36:38
  Speaker 3: What the fuck are these bitches talking about?
• 36:41
  Speaker 4: Are we talking ENM Chinese right now?
• 36:44
  Speaker 3: No, we're absolutely talking. People are probably listening like, these
• 36:47
  Speaker 3: bitches are crazy. So veto power is where you allow
• 36:51
  Speaker 3: your partner, your primary, your anchor, your nesting, the person
• 36:55
  Speaker 3: that you love the most above all, to tell.
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: You that someone got to go. That they can remove someone.
• 37:01
  Speaker 5: I've always had the opinion that primary partners... should be
• 37:08
  Speaker 5: able to have veto power for new people, not the
• 37:11
  Speaker 5: ones that existed before. That's just my opinion. I also,
• 37:20
  Speaker 5: we got into this dialogue, my man and I, about,
• 37:24
  Speaker 5: what was it? This girl kept trying to force the
• 37:26
  Speaker 5: idea of polyamory on us.
• 37:28
  Speaker 4: Saying we're polyamorous.
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: That's not cool.
• 37:30
  Speaker 5: And we were on a date with someone else. She's like,
• 37:32
  Speaker 5: but you guys are poly because you're basically saying you
• 37:34
  Speaker 5: want to continue to see her. You want to fly
• 37:36
  Speaker 5: to see her. And I'm like, you're not understanding it.
• 37:39
  Speaker 4: The fact that he's.
• 37:41
  Speaker 5: Not even saying the words, my primary partner, to me,
• 37:46
  Speaker 5: that just means, hey, out of all the partners, there's
• 37:49
  Speaker 5: not a instance where we say and define, I have
• 37:53
  Speaker 5: this XYZ relationship with here's number two, me and this
• 37:55
  Speaker 5: person share this together. Like it's way more casual than that.
• 37:59
  Speaker 5: It's definitely ethical. We definitely aren't people that just throw
• 38:03
  Speaker 5: someone away.
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah.
• 38:04
  Speaker 5: But at the same time, polyamory to me is cultivating
• 38:07
  Speaker 5: and investing in relationships and putting time and effort in.
• 38:11
  Speaker 5: I can't say truthfully that I've ever been polyamorous. What
• 38:17
  Speaker 5: I have always had is either a primary and people
• 38:23
  Speaker 5: that I've been connected to, much like I would even
• 38:25
  Speaker 5: say with a best friend and associates. I have homegirls
• 38:27
  Speaker 5: I party with from time to time, but I'm not
• 38:29
  Speaker 5: checking on their well-being.
• 38:30
  Speaker 4: All the time.
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Right.
• 38:32
  Speaker 5: So to me, there is definitely a different investment that
• 38:34
  Speaker 5: polyamorous people get to have together. And I don't even
• 38:37
  Speaker 5: want people to confuse me with that because in fear
• 38:41
  Speaker 5: that I'd end up letting them down.
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I think it's also weird, though.
• 38:44
  Speaker 3: I just feel like people just don't like labels. Because
• 38:46
  Speaker 3: I've also told you your lifestyle.
• 38:47
  Speaker 2: I'm not lifestyle. I'm not poly.
• 38:49
  Speaker 3: I think even when I talk to my partner, right?
• 38:51
  Speaker 3: He's like, I don't like this poly shit. He says
• 38:55
  Speaker 3: I'm poly, but you're not. What the fuck do you
• 38:57
  Speaker 3: think this is? This is ethical non-monogamy. And so to me,
• 39:00
  Speaker 3: when we get into like the labels of it all,
• 39:03
  Speaker 3: me and my homegirl Kiki just had this conversation. Because
• 39:07
  Speaker 3: she's now living with her boyfriend that ain't her boyfriend.
• 39:09
  Speaker 3: That's her boyfriend. So I called him her partner. And
• 39:13
  Speaker 3: she was like, bitch, I'm not gay. Partners is what
• 39:16
  Speaker 3: the gays use for their partner. And I was like, oh,
• 39:20
  Speaker 3: we are dealing with pronouns, dealing with E & M, poly, lifestyle, swinger.
• 39:26
  Speaker 2: People are now like, you don't get to label me.
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: I'm going to label you. myself and I don't like
• 39:30
  Speaker 2: any of these terms.
• 39:31
  Speaker 5: Let's talk about the lifestyle one and Connie's opinion. What
• 39:34
  Speaker 5: do you consider lifestyle?
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: I don't even use this term. Your story's as lifestyle
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: as ever. See, you don't like the term. I don't.
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: It's not that I don't like it.
• 39:40
  Speaker 4: I just don't.
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: You should be lifestyle. I literally just don't use it.
• 39:42
  Speaker 2: She be like, one time at the sex club, let
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: me tell you. Everybody's like, oh, you in the lifestyle.
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: And I'm like, I've never once used that term. Bro,
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: I'm not in the lifestyle. Because you don't like that
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: damn word. It's not that I don't like it. It's
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: just never been in my lexicon to describe. Oh, my God. No, bitch,
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: let me tell you.
• 39:56
  Speaker 4: Let me talk about lexes and cons.
• 39:58
  Speaker 2: Lexes and cons. Because here's the thing. What? I have
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: so many thoughts. Why?
• 40:02
  Speaker 4: I don't fuck with the lifestyle term.
• 40:04
  Speaker 2: Bro, you lifestyle. You lifestyle. You poly. You ENL.
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: Also, it means something else to me, especially like whether
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: you're like.
• 40:10
  Speaker 4: What does it mean to you? I think that's why
• 40:12
  Speaker 4: I don't like it.
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: No, it's like the way that I've defined it. And
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: maybe this is because I came like the dom route
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: into like the kink lifestyle. But like a lifestyle of
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: dom versus a pro dom. Like, that's usually the way
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: that I think about it.
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: The people are about to check the fuck out. Because
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: what the fuck? Like, all of these goddamn terms, both
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: of y'all are fucking poly lifestyle bitches.
• 40:33
  Speaker 4: We never inviting a hoe like this on again. We
• 40:34
  Speaker 4: not getting no college educated hoes. It's too much.
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: You too, D. You know what's crazy, though?
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: Because everybody wants to get pissed off by, like, labels
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: and terms and all of the little, like... things that
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: we assign to ourselves when it comes to queer. No,
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: but when you get to kink, everybody's all down.
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: That's a fact.
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because there's so many different labels and terms and
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: the switches and the subs and the pro doms and
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: the lifestyle doms and the different kinds of impact play
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: and breath play. And everybody's cool with those terms because
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: we figure and we understand that there is also a
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: level of education and understanding You need to have.
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: Going into it.
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: And then also, like, how do you find the right
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: play partners for you if y'all can't get on.
• 41:11
  Speaker 4: The same page? I don't think it's the level of education.
• 41:13
  Speaker 5: I believe when you just said it, it's because it's
• 41:16
  Speaker 5: a tangible thing you can see.
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: Okay. Interesting.
• 41:18
  Speaker 4: I could see breath play. I could see the choking.
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 41:21
  Speaker 4: I could see doming.
• 41:23
  Speaker 5: Basically, what I'm saying is these are tangible things you
• 41:25
  Speaker 5: could see, right?
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 41:27
  Speaker 4: Water sports. So now that we can see it, it's
• 41:33
  Speaker 4: something we can touch.
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: Because it feels like it's in the realm of the real.
• 41:35
  Speaker 5: Because most people don't have a level of education when
• 41:37
  Speaker 5: they say they're a dom or something.
• 41:38
  Speaker 4: Let's be honest.
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: That is very true. People be playing reckless. People do
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: be playing very reckless. But that's another thing, right? When
• 41:44
  Speaker 2: we talk about the education of it, when you get.
• 41:46
  Speaker 3: Into BDSM and know what those words mean, when someone
• 41:50
  Speaker 3: identifies as those words, you assume they know a little
• 41:52
  Speaker 3: bit of who they are or how they show up
• 41:54
  Speaker 3: in the bedroom.
• 41:54
  Speaker 4: Essentially.
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: A lot of people don't. They misuse the word. For me,
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: I would never. Not interested. As soon as a man
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: says he's pro-dom, uninterested.
• 42:03
  Speaker 4: What's the difference between pro and lifestyle doms?
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: Well, my understanding is that pro doms have like there's
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: finance and money involved. Like they're going to like they
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: maybe have a dungeon. They're going to see clients like
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: that's how doms who are pro doms in my life
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: define it.
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: But see, that's with money. So I'm I'm asserting a
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: pro dom. Like a professional, you know what you're doing.
• 42:24
  Speaker 3: Not only knows what he's doing, but when they identify
• 42:26
  Speaker 3: as that, they're not a switch. And they don't sub.
• 42:30
  Speaker 3: So to me, they enjoy sex. They enjoy their dynamics
• 42:35
  Speaker 3: as doms only.
• 42:36
  Speaker 4: Interesting.
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: That wouldn't work for me because I'm a dom.
• 42:38
  Speaker 4: What's a lifestyle dom?
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: For me, it's like I'm a dom not for money.
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: Like this is how I like to conduct my relationships.
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: I'm dominant in my like romantic dynamics, which like that's
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: also a whole interesting question. I was reading a book
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: recently that kind of brought all of that into question.
• 42:52
  Speaker 2: Which one?
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: It's called, do you know Sarah Kate? She writes this
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: series called The Salacious Players Club.
• 42:57
  Speaker 4: No.
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: It's about a bunch of people who co-own a sex
• 42:59
  Speaker 2: club together. No.
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: And so I've only read the two books that are
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: about femdoms, obviously. But there's this one called Mercy. And
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: then this most recent one that I read is called Madam.
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: You got to sometimes sidestep how they write in smut
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: books sometimes.
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: I love you, Sarah Kate, just like to be clear.
• 43:14
  Speaker 2: I'm not bashing you.
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: But she starts off as a pro dom, but then
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: she gets in deep with one of her clients and
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: And they start building this dynamic and they realize it's romantic. Like,
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: she is falling in love. She is in love with
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: this guy. But she's just like, I'm Madame Kink. I
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: work at this club.
• 43:28
  Speaker 2: You are a client. Like, I can't. They can't co-mingle. See,
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: that's a dominatrix to me. Exactly. Yes.
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: When I say dominatrix and prodom, like, that's where I'm
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: figuring those together.
• 43:37
  Speaker 3: Dominatrix to me is the woman version of that who
• 43:40
  Speaker 3: focuses on money.
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: Yes. Yes. Okay. I hear you. But I hear what
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: you're saying.
• 43:43
  Speaker 4: Now, and before. Okay, so.
• 43:46
  Speaker 5: With lifestyle, because we started there. When you hear that word,
• 43:50
  Speaker 5: what do you think of?
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: Because I could tell you. Now I know what to
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: think of. Pineapple.
• 43:56
  Speaker 4: No, but what do you think when you hear it?
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, what do you think?
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: When I hear it, like, I'm specifically thinking of, like, usually...
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: couples or people who are in relationships who are going
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: to like specifically like they're thinking of the swingers club
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: before they're thinking of like the.
• 44:12
  Speaker 2: Kink and fetish party. That's where they're going to it.
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: And I often think like, yeah, maybe there's a little
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: bit of kink involved, but they're more like the lifestyle
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: of non-monogamy and like sex parties and like we're bringing
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: people in the bedroom.
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: It's adding people to the mix.
• 44:28
  Speaker 5: So I've always thought of lifestyle as the specific type
• 44:32
  Speaker 5: of non-monogamous people.
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: Interesting.
• 44:35
  Speaker 4: See, this is what I'm saying.
• 44:38
  Speaker 5: So it's the people that are going to, it's the
• 44:40
  Speaker 5: swinger party people. It's the people that's main community are
• 44:44
  Speaker 5: people from sex parties. They're the ones that are going
• 44:47
  Speaker 5: to hang out with the people from the sex party
• 44:50
  Speaker 5: at a.
• 44:50
  Speaker 4: Regular game night. If you on field, you like that.
• 44:52
  Speaker 5: There's people that are generally, like I would say, probably
• 44:57
  Speaker 5: leading with, well, I'm just, I'm still talking about it,
• 45:00
  Speaker 5: but generally people that are leading with A particular identity
• 45:04
  Speaker 5: of swingers, like the upside down pineapple thing.
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: Which like, do you all know why that? I've always,
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: it's always been confusing to me. I don't understand why,
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: why that's a thing. Like the pineapple specifically? I mean,
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: it started on cruise ships.
• 45:16
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 45:17
  Speaker 3: Cruise ships and like letting people know that.
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: That's so interesting because I've always wondered.
• 45:25
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it was cruise ships is where it
• 45:27
  Speaker 3: began and it was like a.
• 45:28
  Speaker 2: Symbol of it. Lifestyle is like the key party type shit.
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: You're inviting all your friends to your house and it's
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: like we're swapping partners for the night.
• 45:37
  Speaker 2: I mean, I think that's the thing too, right?
• 45:38
  Speaker 3: Lifestyle seems like a secret.
• 45:42
  Speaker 3: When realistically, to me now, if you're on an app
• 45:46
  Speaker 3: with your partner looking for a third, that's a public setting.
• 45:49
  Speaker 3: You're on a public app looking for someone to join in. Lifestyle,
• 45:54
  Speaker 3: to me, I agree with you, seems more like not
• 45:57
  Speaker 3: only E & M, but we're intertwining other people in
• 46:00
  Speaker 3: the mix.
• 46:01
  Speaker 5: But I also don't like to say it because I
• 46:03
  Speaker 5: feel like it does confuse it.
• 46:04
  Speaker 2: I personally will not be describing myself like that. But also....
• 46:10
  Speaker 5: I think the other branch of lifestyle sometimes, it's definitely
• 46:12
  Speaker 5: someone that enjoys sex parties.
• 46:14
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah. I feel like they are definitely involved. I
• 46:16
  Speaker 2: actually don't, which is probably... Ooh, you don't. So when
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: you've gone, I'm assuming, like, of course you've been. Of course.
• 46:23
  Speaker 4: I don't like to have sex at sex parties.
• 46:24
  Speaker 2: But you like to watch? Do you like the atmosphere?
• 46:26
  Speaker 2: Do you like to be there? Or you're, like, wholly, like,
• 46:28
  Speaker 2: just not my scene, my vibe?
• 46:30
  Speaker 5: Damn, I'm trying to think of what to say because
• 46:32
  Speaker 5: everyone we've ever really had on this podcast I've particularly, like,
• 46:35
  Speaker 5: enjoyed that run sex parties.
• 46:40
  Speaker 5: I think for me, there's a different energy that I
• 46:46
  Speaker 5: appreciate sex in. I also need a higher attractivity level
• 46:51
  Speaker 5: to everybody in the room.
• 46:51
  Speaker 4: Oh, yeah. I also think that when I'm engaging in.
• 46:56
  Speaker 5: Sex, even if I was having sex with three or
• 46:58
  Speaker 5: four women at once, which that's happened to me, right?
• 47:01
  Speaker 5: I would prefer curated group sex.
• 47:04
  Speaker 4: And a sex party is essentially.
• 47:06
  Speaker 5: the community leader, the sex party leader's curation.
• 47:10
  Speaker 4: Whereas like, that's not going to be the same as
• 47:12
  Speaker 4: what I want, right?
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, you should host your own because like this
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: year was the first year I ever went to like
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: a private play party, like hosted by a friend.
• 47:19
  Speaker 2: And I'm going to another one.
• 47:20
  Speaker 4: How many people were there?
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: It was like, I have like actually horrible, I can't
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: be in a room of people and be like, there's
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: 50 people in here.
• 47:27
  Speaker 2: I actually have a.
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: Horrible number association, but I want to say it was
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: probably no more than like 30 max.
• 47:32
  Speaker 4: That's a lot.
• 47:33
  Speaker 2: 20, like 20 to like.
• 47:35
  Speaker 4: I actually think that number is average. What do you
• 47:37
  Speaker 4: think is average sex party?
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: No. Yeah, like 60 plus.
• 47:40
  Speaker 4: 60 plus. I feel like when I went to CCM,
• 47:42
  Speaker 4: maybe a small thing.
• 47:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, 60 plus. For private parties or. It depends on
• 47:47
  Speaker 2: the space you have. It also depends on that. But yeah, like,
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: I would say. So you're thinking more like 10 people? No, no, no.
• 47:52
  Speaker 5: I was thinking, I just feel like every time I
• 47:53
  Speaker 5: popped into Susie, it's been about 30 or so.
• 47:55
  Speaker 4: But you're right. You're right when it comes to sex.
• 47:57
  Speaker 4: I'll be right. It's definitely 50, 60 plus.
• 47:59
  Speaker 5: Now, the other thing for me within sex parties that
• 48:02
  Speaker 5: I think sometimes.
• 48:04
  Speaker 4: I get in my head about is.
• 48:09
  Speaker 5: I have been talking about sex so long, there's no
• 48:11
  Speaker 5: way no one in the room doesn't know me. And
• 48:13
  Speaker 5: I don't like sex party and the continuation of like
• 48:17
  Speaker 5: how we'll carry on the relationship. I don't really want,
• 48:20
  Speaker 5: I look at sex party as this seedy, nasty, fun
• 48:23
  Speaker 5: thing I'm going to do. You want to be anonymous.
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 48:26
  Speaker 2: Anonymous sex parties would be my jam.
• 48:28
  Speaker 5: If Sucia existed in Brazil and I could leave, I'm in.
• 48:33
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 48:34
  Speaker 4: Sucia, which has.
• 48:36
  Speaker 5: The mission and like, I think all of the things
• 48:40
  Speaker 5: that I hold near and dear to true ethics of
• 48:42
  Speaker 5: a sex party. However, I don't see y'all niggas next
• 48:45
  Speaker 5: to us.
• 48:46
  Speaker 2: No, that's so fair.
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: You want to be in like the nasty little dark
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: ass alleyway at basement during Bound.
• 48:52
  Speaker 2: Like that's what you want.
• 48:53
  Speaker 4: Okay, totally go to Bound.
• 48:54
  Speaker 2: Oh, so you see a lot of people there.
• 48:55
  Speaker 4: I don't have sex at Bound, but I enjoy Bound.
• 48:57
  Speaker 2: Well, you're not, apparently you're not supposed to, but people
• 48:59
  Speaker 2: definitely do.
• 49:01
  Speaker 4: I've seen people have sex at Basemate.
• 49:02
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah. Just even outside of that, I'm sure.
• 49:04
  Speaker 4: But it was raining and I didn't feel like smoking.
• 49:05
  Speaker 2: Okay. So you just want to be in a different
• 49:07
  Speaker 2: country under a new name and you don't want nobody.
• 49:09
  Speaker 4: To know you.
• 49:10
  Speaker 5: I think it's too much connection to others too that
• 49:12
  Speaker 5: I don't necessarily want to fuck.
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: That's so fascinating because I think like maybe I feel
• 49:17
  Speaker 1: twofold about this. Number one, I think that the play
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: party community in New York can get a little interesting
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: in terms of like I think people like to be
• 49:28
  Speaker 1: known in these communities.
• 49:30
  Speaker 2: They do. Yes, there are like.
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: You know, they want to be known as like that
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: dope ass impact top who, you know, is at these
• 49:39
  Speaker 1: parties regularly and has design group scenes. That's the other
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: thing that pisses me off sometimes going to the play party.
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: It's like it doesn't feel like anybody's checking for anybody else.
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: You came with all the bitches that you're about to
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: have an orgy with and you have the scene planned.
• 49:50
  Speaker 2: Ooh, that's interesting.
• 49:51
  Speaker 4: Already.
• 49:51
  Speaker 2: I've seen that so much. And I'm like, dang, is
• 49:53
  Speaker 2: there no more?
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: And I can't use this term because it's not for me,
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: but in terms of, like, cruising.
• 49:59
  Speaker 2: But, like, you're coming here.
• 50:00
  Speaker 4: You can't use the term cruising?
• 50:01
  Speaker 2: Well, for me, it's a gay mass term. Girl, we
• 50:04
  Speaker 2: know what it means. You really woke right now.
• 50:06
  Speaker 5: No, no, no.
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: I just mean to say, like, are we allowed to
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: use that? I feel like I'm not supposed to use
• 50:10
  Speaker 1: that term for myself. But that's what I mean to
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: say is, like, you know. I'm coming in no associations.
• 50:16
  Speaker 1: I'm coming in for a whole new night. I didn't
• 50:19
  Speaker 1: pre-plan anything.
• 50:20
  Speaker 4: You talk about coming alone?
• 50:21
  Speaker 2: I think, yeah.
• 50:22
  Speaker 3: So you do it differently than me. When I go alone,
• 50:24
  Speaker 3: I'm going just to watch.
• 50:25
  Speaker 2: And drink and do drugs. And that's also incredible. I
• 50:28
  Speaker 2: only play when I come with a partner. That's interesting.
• 50:31
  Speaker 3: So what I do like, though, going alone, that's when
• 50:35
  Speaker 3: I'll do the impact stations. Because I don't deal with professionals.
• 50:40
  Speaker 3: So I'll go to the sex club. when I want
• 50:43
  Speaker 3: electro play or impact play or anything that's not penetration
• 50:48
  Speaker 3: and not intimate, but more BDSM.
• 50:51
  Speaker 2: But if I want to have sex, I have to
• 50:54
  Speaker 2: bring my partner. I don't go there. I don't like.
• 50:59
  Speaker 3: Casual or new sex club scenes with men. I won't
• 51:04
  Speaker 3: play with a man, a new man in a sex club.
• 51:06
  Speaker 3: So I bring my partner. I play with women, but
• 51:08
  Speaker 3: I only want to really play with women too, with
• 51:10
  Speaker 3: a man. So.
• 51:12
  Speaker 2: Interesting. Okay, yeah. But I love that that's where like...
• 51:15
  Speaker 2: Everybody's different. Everyone's different. And that's okay. There's no right
• 51:18
  Speaker 2: or wrong way to enjoy it. There is no wrong way.
• 51:20
  Speaker 4: Giving the perspective of something you don't like.
• 51:22
  Speaker 2: Whatever you like, baby. You ain't hurting nobody. It's consensual.
• 51:25
  Speaker 3: And as long as you there, getting tested, being protected,
• 51:28
  Speaker 3: doing the things you need.
• 51:29
  Speaker 2: I get way too.
• 51:30
  Speaker 1: There's so many comments being like.
• 51:32
  Speaker 2: I just feel like everybody's just like.
• 51:33
  Speaker 4: Oh, that's nasty shit.
• 51:34
  Speaker 2: Like you're diseased, blah, blah, blah.
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: The bitches who go to the play party, at least
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: the play party I want to be at and the
• 51:39
  Speaker 1: people that I know, are getting tested way more frequently
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: than any nasty-ass.
• 51:43
  Speaker 2: Person who's just fucking casually out here.
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: There's so many guys being like, oh, well, I haven't
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: been with any dirty bitches, but they haven't been tested
• 51:53
  Speaker 1: since 2016.
• 51:54
  Speaker 5: That's a common theme. I wanted to tell you that
• 51:58
  Speaker 5: I really appreciate you talking about something you don't like.
• 52:01
  Speaker 5: One thing I think we don't do enough is... Ever
• 52:04
  Speaker 5: really ask, because generally this pod is so fun and
• 52:07
  Speaker 5: we're exploring so many of the fun stories. We never
• 52:10
  Speaker 5: really ask, what about a time that you didn't like something?
• 52:14
  Speaker 5: What's something that went wrong at a play party you
• 52:16
  Speaker 5: weren't fucking with?
• 52:17
  Speaker 4: Sometimes we'll share our own thing. But for the most part,
• 52:21
  Speaker 4: we talk about only the pros.
• 52:23
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah.
• 52:24
  Speaker 4: You know?
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: I've had so many experiences that were just not... on it,
• 52:28
  Speaker 1: especially because I go alone so often. There are so
• 52:31
  Speaker 1: many moments where you kind of just feel like on
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: the outside of it and not in a sexy way,
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: you know? So I've had plenty, like the first play
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: party that I ever, well, technically it was the second,
• 52:41
  Speaker 1: but the first play party I ever went to was
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: in Cranston, Rhode Island.
• 52:44
  Speaker 2: We don't need to talk about that.
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: But the first like play party, play party I ever
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: went to was in London at Club Verboten. And I
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: went by myself. I felt real cute. My fits were
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: so like simplistically And I just like, I was still
• 52:57
  Speaker 1: wearing something cute, but it was like intimacy, some bullshit, whatever.
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: And I went and there was this hot guy who
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: came up to me. He was like, have you ever
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: been here before? And I was like, no, this is
• 53:05
  Speaker 1: my first time. He was like, well, you nailed it
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: for it being your first time. And I was just like, oh,
• 53:08
  Speaker 1: he flirted, he flirted. I tried to assert myself, whatever.
• 53:12
  Speaker 2: He turned me down flat. He was like, I'm here
• 53:13
  Speaker 2: with my partner. I'm like, no. It was a sort
• 53:15
  Speaker 2: of situation. I was like, oh, fuck.
• 53:18
  Speaker 1: And that kind of rejection definitely threw me for most
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: of the night.
• 53:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because I was like that.
• 53:26
  Speaker 1: It just felt like, oh, am I not presenting myself
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: in the way that I want to in this space?
• 53:30
  Speaker 1: Am I not desired in this space? There was just
• 53:31
  Speaker 1: so many things running through my mind. You know what's crazy?
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: I mean, I'm sure it's changed now, but that's the
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: one thing.
• 53:38
  Speaker 2: Men go in.
• 53:39
  Speaker 3: Kind of preparing to be rejected and they should because
• 53:42
  Speaker 3: it's going to happen but women feeling rejected is interesting
• 53:46
  Speaker 3: because I've been saying and I know I just said
• 53:49
  Speaker 3: this maybe on a YGD but the importance of being
• 53:52
  Speaker 3: in this space too as a woman is feeling powerful
• 53:56
  Speaker 3: because you can't say no, but there has to be
• 53:59
  Speaker 3: a power in receiving it too because we're not all
• 54:02
  Speaker 3: for everybody.
• 54:03
  Speaker 2: Men, women, like whatever.
• 54:05
  Speaker 3: So like you even bringing up one of your bad
• 54:07
  Speaker 3: experiences being rejection, that's something like we should all kind
• 54:11
  Speaker 3: of welcome in dating and sex.
• 54:13
  Speaker 2: And lifestyle and all of that, right?
• 54:15
  Speaker 3: I'm curious though, because you go solo, when you date,
• 54:20
  Speaker 3: when you have partners or get in partnerships that are
• 54:23
  Speaker 3: whatever dynamic they.
• 54:24
  Speaker 2: Are, Do you go with them?
• 54:26
  Speaker 3: Or is this something you do just when you're single?
• 54:28
  Speaker 2: No, absolutely.
• 54:30
  Speaker 1: Whenever I start seeing someone and it seems like we're
• 54:33
  Speaker 1: going to see each other for a while, I always
• 54:35
  Speaker 1: tell them that I go to play parties.
• 54:36
  Speaker 2: Also, it's really hard to avoid the conversation coming up.
• 54:38
  Speaker 2: How soon do you bring it up? I mean, if
• 54:39
  Speaker 2: they don't know your Instagram, right? Yeah.
• 54:41
  Speaker 3: How soon are you like... Because there's certain things that
• 54:44
  Speaker 3: you should let people know at the gate. How soon
• 54:46
  Speaker 3: are you like, just so you know... you know, maybe
• 54:48
  Speaker 3: once a month, maybe once a quarter. I like to
• 54:50
  Speaker 3: go to parties.
• 54:51
  Speaker 1: Honestly, really early on. I've definitely told people as soon
• 54:54
  Speaker 1: as like the first date or whatever because like, you know,
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: they ask me, oh, what do you do?
• 54:57
  Speaker 2: Like, what are your hobbies? What are your interests? And
• 54:58
  Speaker 2: I'm like, yeah, I have like my very vanilla day job,
• 55:01
  Speaker 2: like nine to five, whatever, corporate.
• 55:03
  Speaker 1: But I'm like also a sex educator and like my
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: thesis was in porn studies and like I go to
• 55:07
  Speaker 1: play parties. Like this is a part of my life
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: in a way that I just don't feel ashamed sharing.
• 55:11
  Speaker 5: Do you think if it wasn't tied to being a
• 55:15
  Speaker 5: sex educator that somebody should bring up Because to me,
• 55:19
  Speaker 5: I wouldn't talk about my kinks on a first date.
• 55:22
  Speaker 5: And I actually consider attending play parties as something kinky.
• 55:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 55:27
  Speaker 5: And not particularly of a hobby or interest. However, as
• 55:30
  Speaker 5: also I am a sex educator, I do say that
• 55:34
  Speaker 5: on the first date generally just.
• 55:37
  Speaker 4: To get it out of the way. If they want
• 55:39
  Speaker 4: to know more, they do. But for the most part,
• 55:41
  Speaker 4: it's like, you know.
• 55:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 55:42
  Speaker 5: But curious, if you aren't a sex educator and this
• 55:46
  Speaker 5: isn't part of what you do, Should you be discussing
• 55:50
  Speaker 5: the fact that you go to play parties knowing the
• 55:52
  Speaker 5: conversation can be super sexualized after?
• 55:54
  Speaker 2: What do you think?
• 55:55
  Speaker 5: Yeah, tell me about what you think about that because
• 55:57
  Speaker 5: I want to go back to dating right before we
• 55:58
  Speaker 5: end too since.
• 55:59
  Speaker 4: We have so much sex coming.
• 56:00
  Speaker 1: I mean like obviously one could say that it's different
• 56:03
  Speaker 1: for women versus men. Personally, I'm so used to having
• 56:05
  Speaker 1: these conversations in a desexualized manner insofar as I'm not
• 56:10
  Speaker 1: trying to instigate.
• 56:11
  Speaker 2: Us, oh, we going to a play party tonight? I'm
• 56:13
  Speaker 2: not trying to tell you I'm sucking your dick after this. Exactly.
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: And, like, I'm so used, because I'd be talking about
• 56:17
  Speaker 1: this with my girlfriends, just, like, casually, my mother.
• 56:20
  Speaker 2: The waiter. Oh, my God. Literally the waiter. Everybody, yeah. Actually,
• 56:25
  Speaker 2: for my birthday, we were at the wife hotel has, like, a.
• 56:28
  Speaker 2: I love the wife hotel. Yes, the El Crocodile, the
• 56:31
  Speaker 2: Michelin star restaurant. Beautiful there. Isn't it gorgeous? It's in Brooklyn, y'all.
• 56:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so we were there, and I don't even– I
• 56:37
  Speaker 1: didn't recognize this person, or I sort of did, but
• 56:38
  Speaker 1: they were a friend of a friend who goes to
• 56:41
  Speaker 1: play parties. And we were talking about literally at the
• 56:43
  Speaker 1: dinner table at El Crocodile. I'm discussing with the general
• 56:46
  Speaker 1: manager there, play parties. It just comes up. And so–
• 56:51
  Speaker 1: I know that when I'm bringing these things up, I'm
• 56:52
  Speaker 1: sharing something about who I am and like how I
• 56:55
  Speaker 1: live my life, not what are we going to get
• 56:57
  Speaker 1: up to after this. So if you are a person
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: who's sharing, first of all, you should always ask if
• 57:02
  Speaker 1: this is like, you can always say like, hey, if
• 57:03
  Speaker 1: you don't want to have this conversation, totally okay. I'm
• 57:06
  Speaker 1: just like letting you know, this is like part of
• 57:07
  Speaker 1: my life, not and like who I am and some
• 57:10
  Speaker 1: of my interests, but I have no expectations for you
• 57:13
  Speaker 1: like after this, but we can discontinue this conversation now
• 57:15
  Speaker 1: if you'd like to. So- obviously there should be consent
• 57:18
  Speaker 1: involved in like, maybe this person may not feel comfortable
• 57:20
  Speaker 1: hearing this or like right now, though I would have,
• 57:23
  Speaker 1: you know, thoughts about that.
• 57:25
  Speaker 3: But I just had to have a conversation with my
• 57:26
  Speaker 3: boyfriend about that. Cause he said that like in my
• 57:28
  Speaker 3: home girls, I bring up a lot of sex topics
• 57:31
  Speaker 3: or I'm sharing something in Ubers. And so sometimes I'd
• 57:36
  Speaker 3: be like, God, no.
• 57:37
  Speaker 2: And Etta knows.
• 57:38
  Speaker 3: So it'll be like a conversation where I'll talk about it.
• 57:42
  Speaker 3: And then I'll be like, oh shit, are you fine
• 57:43
  Speaker 3: with us having this conversation in the back? And, If
• 57:47
  Speaker 3: they're not, I have no problem stopping.
• 57:49
  Speaker 2: Have they said no? Not yet, no.
• 57:51
  Speaker 3: But I've had to like... My friends and my boyfriend
• 57:54
  Speaker 3: feel like it's so inappropriate. But to me, I feel
• 57:57
  Speaker 3: like we're in a private space even though there's another person.
• 58:01
  Speaker 3: So we literally just had to have the conversation where
• 58:03
  Speaker 3: he's like, that's someone that.
• 58:06
  Speaker 2: you should ask first.
• 58:07
  Speaker 3: You shouldn't just feel so comfortable talking about eating ass
• 58:10
  Speaker 3: in the backseat of someone else's car.
• 58:11
  Speaker 1: Which is crazy because would he tell somebody who was
• 58:14
  Speaker 1: going to be making out, if somebody was making out
• 58:16
  Speaker 1: with their partner in the backseat of an Uber, would
• 58:18
  Speaker 1: he be telling them, you need to ask the Uber
• 58:20
  Speaker 1: driver first.
• 58:20
  Speaker 2: If it's okay? You know what I mean?
• 58:22
  Speaker 3: But because I'm talking about eating ass and pegging, now
• 58:25
  Speaker 3: it's a problem.
• 58:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's interesting. And so it was really.
• 58:27
  Speaker 3: Interesting, but I've had to have that conversation with both
• 58:30
  Speaker 3: my friends and my partner because I have these conversations
• 58:33
  Speaker 3: fluidly and they feel like, Time and place, bitch. And
• 58:37
  Speaker 3: I'm like, bro, I'm having a conversation with y'all. And
• 58:40
  Speaker 3: if someone hears it, I'm also not, I don't, and yeah,
• 58:45
  Speaker 3: maybe it's a level of caring. But it's the same
• 58:47
  Speaker 3: way when I'm in a theme park. Bitch, I wish
• 58:49
  Speaker 3: you would say I can't say bitch because there's some
• 58:51
  Speaker 3: kids around here.
• 58:52
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean? So there's a level of,
• 58:53
  Speaker 2: I guess.
• 58:54
  Speaker 3: A discernment with these types of conversations that I understand
• 58:57
  Speaker 3: people have.
• 58:58
  Speaker 5: Can we pivot for a second before we get to
• 59:00
  Speaker 5: horrible shit?
• 59:01
  Speaker 2: Yes. Oh, yeah. Because we've really been talking about horrible shit.
• 59:04
  Speaker 4: This is so good.
• 59:05
  Speaker 2: This is so good. No, no, you're good.
• 59:07
  Speaker 4: I mean, to me, it's still not as kinky as
• 59:10
  Speaker 4: it will get. So, I would like to know.
• 59:12
  Speaker 5: Because you talked about the looking for love while I
• 59:18
  Speaker 5: saw a video titled Lessons from a Situation Ship. Could
• 59:21
  Speaker 5: you just talk about for the last few minutes because most,
• 59:26
  Speaker 5: I don't know, I think 85% or 80% of women
• 59:27
  Speaker 5: that Sometimes they're chatting with us or looking for long-term
• 59:31
  Speaker 5: relationships when they're dating. I would like to know kind
• 59:36
  Speaker 5: of your advice or a story you can tell and
• 59:39
  Speaker 5: share with how this can happen successfully.
• 59:42
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 59:42
  Speaker 5: While dating casually. Because sometimes we'll hear people say, hey,
• 59:47
  Speaker 5: if you're looking for marriage and you're looking for love
• 59:49
  Speaker 5: and you're on a date and it's a no for him,
• 59:51
  Speaker 5: cut it out.
• 59:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 59:52
  Speaker 5: Talk a little bit about that. How do you date
• 59:54
  Speaker 5: while you're looking for something that that person may not want?
• 59:56
  Speaker 2: I have.
• 59:57
  Speaker 1: So many thoughts about this. I think that when we
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 1: ask ourselves to choose, when we're like, I can only
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 1: be in my lover girl era or my, my whole
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 1: phase right now, I think that you don't stop masturbating
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 1: when you're looking for love. You're still experiencing pleasure. You
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 1: still want, like you still have that sort of erotic life.
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 1: It's just like, you're saying that I'm saving that for
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 1: a relationship now when you're looking for love, et cetera,
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 1: et cetera. And I just find that like, when we say, okay,
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 1: I'm only in my lover girl era and, there's a
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 1: part of at least for me like I still want
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 1: to fuck I still want to have fun I still
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 1: want to do all of that stuff but I'm bridling
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 1: myself now but what ends up being the issue is
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 1: that when I'm approaching someone let's say I meet someone
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 1: who I like I'm like interested in like seeing this
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 1: person a little bit more often I find myself jumping
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 1: a little bit faster to like maybe sexual experiences bringing
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 1: them to this play party that play party blah blah
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 1: because that's something I still do want but like I'm
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 1: in my lover like even though like I'm looking for
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 1: a relationship I mean like it's like that those things
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 1: are going to be a part of my relationship I
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 1: just find that they bleed into each other a little
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 1: bit too much and it doesn't allow you to identify
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 1: when someone is like maybe this is the person that
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 1: we just like our best compatible relationship is us just
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 1: fucking like there I've met plenty of people where it's
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 1: like we actually really would not be good in a relationship.
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 1: But because I'm in my lover girl era right now
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 1: and I kind of like you and we're seeing each other,
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 1: I'm like looking for a relationship and I can't reasonably
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 1: assess or allow myself to assess that maybe the best
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 1: connection we have here is like we sleep around sometimes.
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 1: And vice versa, when you're trying to turn a situation, yeah,
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 1: like a situationship into a relationship when that actually is
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 1: not the best format for you.
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 5: Sounds like you know how to compartmentalize more than some
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 5: others can. Because the thing that I find maybe got
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 5: me closer to the aisle.
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 4: Or whatever I.
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 5: Know for a fact right before maybe the two years
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 5: before I met my man I was able to have
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 5: sex with people I knew.
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 4: I wouldn't end up with whereas before.
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 5: I think because I know I want marriage and children
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 5: I would confuse myself with chemistry, attraction, and compatibility.
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 2: Thank you for putting that so much better than I
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 2: just did right now.
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 1: But I think we don't allow ourselves to be And
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 1: I've had people come under my comment section saying, like,
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 1: I can't compartmentalize like this. I don't really see it
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 1: as compartmentalization. I just see it as being able to
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 1: see your relationships clearly. Being able to be clear with
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 1: who you are and what you want.
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 4: Compartmentalize sounds like a bad word.
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 3: With who they are and what they're willing to give
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 3: and if they're looking for the same thing.
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 1: I'm like, some people are out here trying to force
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 1: shit to work with people where it's like, you really,
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 1: y'all are not compatible. And I don't even mean that
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 1: to say, but I think so many people are just
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 1: trying to prove that That they're desirable through people who
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 1: really like they're not compatible with. And then also some
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 1: people who really just don't want them like that. And
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 1: I think what I I was just pressuring myself so
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 1: much either way. I've like pressured myself into my whole
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 1: phase like, oh, I'm just like, you know, not going
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 1: to care. I'm just having fun when I know that
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 1: I still have that like. lover girl in me. Like,
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 1: I want to be able to pursue, like, and deeper
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 1: connections with people that make sense with. But I also
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 1: don't want to have to forego enjoying sexual connections with
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 1: people who that that's like the right situation for us.
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 1: And I think right now we. People, I think, are forcing,
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 1: especially women, are forcing themselves to choose.
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 2: You don't have to choose, baby. Like, it just isn't.
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 1: And I know that it might feel harder for women
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 1: who identify as monogamous, especially because it's like, well, when
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 1: I find my husband, I got to cut all that
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 1: other shit off. For me, it's like they can kind
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 1: of all bleed into each other.
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 2: Do you want to.
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 4: Be you want a long term relationship? Do you want
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 4: to be married?
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 1: I would be very wary of that just because I've
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 1: seen it played like not.
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 2: Played out well.
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 4: And when you're not nervous.
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 2: No, no.
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 1: Just like if my mom sees the show, I love
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 1: you both so much. My parents are absolutely incredible and
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 1: they've supported me in ways. There's just certain parts of
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 1: their relationship that I'm like that they stayed through that
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 1: I would never have stayed. And there's something about and
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 1: there's something about marriage, like the kind of locking in
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 1: that happens that just scares me. Because if I think
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 1: if I did get married with someone, we would have
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 1: had to been together for like 10 years.
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 2: And then the marriage was an afterthought.
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 4: That's interesting.
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 5: I feel like people look down on those who have
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 5: been together too long.
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 4: You know what I mean? Really? I think we generally
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 4: are like.
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 2: Took eight years to give her a ring.
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 4: Like it's something you, you know what I mean? Like we,
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 4: but you really got to know each other while they're
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 4: living together first.
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 2: I mean, that's for the people that want rings. Exactly.
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 3: And that's where, you know, it's tricky because when we
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 3: sit on these platforms and we talk about Not monogamy.
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 3: I'm a woman who doesn't want marriage. I wish somebody
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 3: would shame me for being with someone for eight years.
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 3: I don't want the outcome of a ring. I think,
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 3: I think if you're a woman that wants it and
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 3: you've been begging for one for eight years, that's different than.
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 4: Trust me, everybody feels it too. And you're like, yeah,
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 4: we're still waiting. It's like, oh my God.
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 1: Also like, that freaks me out because I'm like, if
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 1: that's where you're at and like you're dogging your man
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 1: or your person, like in public being.
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 2: Like, he ain't got it.
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, that's why Jhené, I ain't go and wait
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 3: for Sean no more. She was on stage like.
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 1: Where's my ring? That's terrifying to me. I personally would
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 1: hate to be in that situation.
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 2: Do you want kids?
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 4: Definitely no.
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 2: Definitely no. Yeah. I want to be rich auntie.
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 3: Hello.
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 4: Period.
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 2: I want to have all the money, the houses. I
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 2: can buy you out anywhere.
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 4: When did you know you didn't want kids?
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 2: I think the first part of this was.
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 1: I just don't think I would carry well in terms
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 1: of not how I would look, but I don't think
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 1: my body would tolerate being pregnant. Well, like I just,
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 1: there's something about, I feel like I would be ill.
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 1: I would have back problems. I feel like I would
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 1: have a very painful birth. Like I, there's so many
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 1: parts of it where it's like from a bodily perspective,
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 1: I just feel like it would be bad for me.
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 1: So then I was like, okay, maybe if I did
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 1: have kids, I would adopt from both an ethical standpoint
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 1: because kids need to hit homes and then I don't
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 1: have to give birth.
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 2: But then I was like, I just don't think that
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 2: I want the responsibility.
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 4: Is it hard for you when looking for long-term commitment?
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 2: I think it's going to become more of an issue
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 2: probably later on. I'm 25.
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 1: So like right now, I think a lot of the
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 1: people who I've been like with seeing whatever who are
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 1: close to.
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 2: My age also aren't thinking about kids right now. Yes. Well,
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 2: it's why I date YNs or 50 plus. Yes. Because
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 2: they're on a whole other spectrum.
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 3: But when I moved to Atlanta and I was dating
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 3: men that were my age, it was like the ones
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 3: that didn't have kids want them yesterday.
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 5: I have so much empathy for people in my life
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 5: that don't want kids that actually want marriage.
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 2: I know that must be hard.
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 5: And one of my friends just, it's just not for her, whatever.
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 5: Same auntie vibes, you know? And she was like, bro,
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 5: sometimes I just.
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 4: Want to lie.
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 3: Like.
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 4: Oh, yeah. She's like, I just want to lie and
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 4: then say I changed my mind once we're locked in.
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 4: And I'm like.
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 2: What?
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 1: Wait, wasn't that on Love is Blind recently? That girl
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 1: went in and she was like, I don't normally watch it.
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 4: Oh, no. That. Oh, God.
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 2: There was this one tall ass black man who was
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 2: on that show. He was so beautiful.
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 4: Oh.
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 1: Anyhow, he was a big reason why I kept watching.
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 1: But this girl was like, I don't want kids. But
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 1: she allowed herself to kind of say, well, maybe I
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 1: can think about it and maybe I can be convinced.
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 1: Comes out of the pods. They're engaged. But the reason
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 1: they end up not getting married.
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 4: He's like, I don't believe you.
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 2: You know what I'm talking about. That's scary.
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 1: Like, don't lie.
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 2: Don't lie.
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 4: No, I mean, and she's not, but I completely understand.
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 2: They don't have a baby for a man either. Oh,
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 2: my God. You could not even get me in that situation.
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 4: You know what's funny?
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 5: I actually think it's almost 50-50 amount of women that
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 5: have a baby for a man, about a man that
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 5: just be like, all right.
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 2: Well, they don't have to carry or do nothing.
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 1: I just feel like it's so easy for them to
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 1: be like, all right. Because the way that they can
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 1: just shirk responsibility later on, men like to think that
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 1: they're like, oh, we're so roped into shit.
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 2: Like, you guys leave if you want. You leave if
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 2: you want, or you only got to see him for
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 2: the weekend.
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 5: Now, y'all don't have to wait too long. In just
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 5: another day, we're going to have horrible decisions with Connie.
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 5: So we're about to film that now. And I'm going
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 5: to tell you what I want.
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 4: Bitch, I want to know.
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 5: The craziest Dom story for you. I want to know
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 5: like you almost being like, damn, am I, am I
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 5: going to kill him? Like, I want to know the
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 5: wildest shit you've seen at a sex party. I want
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 5: all this tea. So y'all go head on over to
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 5: patreon.com backslash horrible decisions. You'll be seeing the clips all week,
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 5: but if you want to watch the whole episode, it's
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 5: there by our book, no holes barred. And how do
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 5: they support you?
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 2: Oh, I, wow. You can book a concierge call with me.
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 2: I think that'll be linked with this. Yes, the free calls.
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 2: The free calls. I'm really good at finding play parties.
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 1: This is the number one question I always get asked.
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 1: How do I find a play party in my city?
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 1: And I have to be like, some of them I'm like,
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 1: are y'all not looking?
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 2: It's not as hard to find. It's really not.
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 1: And I try to explain in my videos, but I
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 1: still get people in my DMs being like, I just
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 1: need you to help me.
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 2: So I'm like, if you want me to help you,
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 2: I'll help you. Just book a call.
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 1: So, and I also think it's really fun, but I
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 1: have no, somebody was asking me from LA and I
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 1: was like, girl, you're in LA. There's a smatter, too
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 1: many probably like shit.
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 2: So you can do that.
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 1: And then if you want to sign up for my newsletter,
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 1: I get fucked. I haven't written on it in a
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 1: really long time, but people love the stories that are
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 1: on there.
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 2: Go for it. Love it.
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 4: Great subtext name. I like that.
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 2: Thank you. Get fucked.
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 5: See y'all next week or see you in a few
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 5: days with Connie.
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 1: Bye.