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Incorporating your business into your estate plan · The Legal Exchange

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  Speaker 1: This is the Legal Exchange with Todd Lutsky from the
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  Speaker 1: law firm of Cushing and Dolan and Susan Powers of
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  Speaker 1: the Armstrong Advisory Group. Each week, Todd and Susan will
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  Speaker 1: discuss many topics, including estate planning, how to avoid probate,
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  Speaker 1: and protecting your money from a nursing home. If you
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  Speaker 1: need assistance in any of these areas, or have a
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  Speaker 1: question about another issue that may affect your future, call
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  Speaker 1: to make an appointment. That's eight sixty six eight four
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  Speaker 1: eight five six ninety nine. Operators are standing by. Now
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: Here are your hosts, Todd Lutsky and Susan Powers.
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  Speaker 2: Welcome into the Legal Exchange with Todd Lutsky. I'm Susan Powers,
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  Speaker 2: a financial advisor with the Armstrong Advisory Group, and I'm
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  Speaker 2: joined by Todd Latsky, a partner with the law firm
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  Speaker 2: of Cushing and Dolan with a master's in taxation.
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  Speaker 3: Welcome Todd. How are you today?
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  Speaker 4: I'm never better in you.
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  Speaker 3: I am great? Thank you. What do you have for
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  Speaker 3: us today?
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  Speaker 4: I got two things. We've got a Missouri case out
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  Speaker 4: of an appellate case in Missouri, basically, when do you
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  Speaker 4: exercise your option to purchase real estate and how to
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  Speaker 4: go about doing it. Basically, it's a great case about
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  Speaker 4: how to deal with real estate in your estate plan,
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  Speaker 4: giving somebody a first right of refusal, giving somebody a
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  Speaker 4: purchase option, making sure you actually exercise and if you
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  Speaker 4: don't do it, what happens? I mean, there's right, But
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  Speaker 4: it's a really great case to learn not only from
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  Speaker 4: this fact pattern, but how we can make sure you
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  Speaker 4: take care of your real estate with your family and
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  Speaker 4: a lot of people along the way. So really I
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  Speaker 4: found it to be an interesting case. And then I
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  Speaker 4: have one an Illinois appellate court case undue influence by
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  Speaker 4: a spouse really or not? And then basically what's the
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  Speaker 4: attorney's role in drafting this and is the attorney responsible
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  Speaker 4: for the undue influence aspects of it? So it's just
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  Speaker 4: an interesting case where where you know, the husband leaves
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  Speaker 4: assets in a business which is important to you know,
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  Speaker 4: siblings because the spouse wasn't involved in and later leaves
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  Speaker 4: it to the spouse, and you know, is that the
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  Speaker 4: best thing to do with a business interest? Right? And
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  Speaker 4: we're going to talk about the problems that arose in
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  Speaker 4: this case. But more importantly, how do we fix those problems? So,
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  Speaker 4: especially when you have a business and leaving that in
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  Speaker 4: your family's estate plan, what's the best way to transition
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  Speaker 4: to business? Not always easy either way, folks, lots to
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  Speaker 4: talk about today, and we, of course, we are dealing
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  Speaker 4: your assets in one trust. You don't have to divide
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  Speaker 4: them between a husband and wan life. You don't have
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  Speaker 4: to worry about you know, when operating it, you're both
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  Speaker 4: going to be trustees, one growing more than another. You
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  Speaker 4: Let's head over to Missouri.
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  Speaker 3: So what do we got have and some shady spouses.
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  Speaker 4: Well, now this one is the exercising the option to
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  Speaker 4: purchase real estates first, but we're going to get to
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  Speaker 4: the shady spouse too. So Ann died in May of
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  Speaker 4: twenty sixteen, leaving five kids. June twenty sixteen, they admitted
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  Speaker 4: the will to probate. The real estate was left equally
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  Speaker 4: to the kids, but they gave Dennis the first option
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  Speaker 4: to purchase the property, but he needed to provide timely
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  Speaker 4: notice in writing of his desire to exercise the option,
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  Speaker 4: which makes sense. You don't want to leave property lingering, sure, right,
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  Speaker 4: the time was one year. Well, Dennis did provide timely
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  Speaker 4: notice to exercise the option September twenty sixteen. A few
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  Speaker 4: months later, two sisters, Cecil and Teresa, contested the will,
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  Speaker 4: specifically the first right to purchase that Dennis had. They
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  Speaker 4: didn't like that. The probate courts stayed the sale until
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  Speaker 4: the outcome of the will context.
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  Speaker 3: What does that mean? They put a pin in it, put.
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  Speaker 4: A hold on it. Hold on if you can't, they're
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  Speaker 4: going to stay the sale. You can't do anything until
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  Speaker 4: we've finished this will contest. Okay, that's fine. October twenty
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  Speaker 4: twenty two. Whoa wow, it's a lot of years later.
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  Speaker 4: Years later, the will contest concludes. Okay, May twenty twenty four.
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  Speaker 4: What row? The estate filed a hearing and a petition
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  Speaker 4: to sell the property. The sisters objected, and they argued
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  Speaker 4: that it was not done timely within one year. Court agreed. Yep. Well,
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  Speaker 4: as you might imagine, Dennis appealed and the appellate court affirmed.
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  Speaker 4: It stated that you do not need a separate order
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  Speaker 4: to lift the stay on the sale of real estate.
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  Speaker 4: The court order was clear. It said that the sale
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  Speaker 4: will be held until the resolution of the will contest,
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  Speaker 4: and that concluded in October of twenty twenty two. Thereby,
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  Speaker 4: Dennis had until October of twenty twenty three to complete
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  Speaker 4: the sale. Yeah, he failed to do so. Therefore the
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  Speaker 4: power to buy.
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  Speaker 3: Failed after all that time and fighting, all.
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  Speaker 4: That time and fighting caused him to sort of get
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  Speaker 4: off this. Yeah, get you get off track, right, yeah,
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  Speaker 4: and so you forget about it. And then that many
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  Speaker 4: years later. And so at the end of the day,
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  Speaker 4: they lost, but they won, they sure did. Yeah, they
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  Speaker 4: lost because there was you know, he did have this
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  Speaker 4: right to do this. There was no problem with the will,
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  Speaker 4: There was no will contact, there was no problem with
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  Speaker 4: the drafting of the will, and so it should have
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  Speaker 4: been allowed. But they ended up didn't do it. He
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  Speaker 4: didn't do it, So they ended up losing but winning,
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  Speaker 4: and he lost the whole way around. Right now, I mean,
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  Speaker 4: we don't mean to laugh at that, but it's like,
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  Speaker 4: this is what this is what happens when you have
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  Speaker 4: problems with your estate plan. So we're going to take
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  Speaker 4: a few minutes and learn from this.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, because you have lots of clients that have said, hey,
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  Speaker 2: I want, you know, Billy to be able to buy
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  Speaker 2: this house because he's renting it from us now or whatever.
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  Speaker 3: There is a refusal. You have a lot of those.
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  Speaker 4: Or some kids just need a place to live, some
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  Speaker 4: kids want a certain piece property. So property is really tricky, right,
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  Speaker 4: and I say, you really need a trust for this, right,
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  Speaker 4: and so let's just run through some options right here.
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  Speaker 4: The will, you know, has to go to probate. But remember,
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  Speaker 4: if you have real estate, you know, in multiple states,
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  Speaker 4: you're now going to have to go to probate in
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  Speaker 4: multiple states. You're going to have to file an ancillary
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  Speaker 4: probate in every state where you own property. So when
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  Speaker 4: I say a will is not the way to go
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  Speaker 4: with real estate because a trust avoids probate, yeah, but
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  Speaker 4: this particular asset could help you avoid probate in multiple places. Yeah,
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  Speaker 4: so real estate is really a reason to have a
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  Speaker 4: trust and avoid probate. Second option. You know, if you
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  Speaker 4: simply want to treat all kids equally, well, then it's
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  Speaker 4: pretty easy. You do our language that says all property
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  Speaker 4: is sold unless you all want it.
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  Speaker 1: Right.
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  Speaker 4: If you all want it, then you get it. If
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  Speaker 4: anyone doesn't want it, then that person. The people who
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  Speaker 4: do want it, get to buy out the interest of
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  Speaker 4: the people who don't at fair market value in a
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  Speaker 4: set timetable.
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  Speaker 5: M hm.
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  Speaker 4: Again, the kids aren't fighting, and every bucket is filled equally,
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  Speaker 4: no problem, no headache. You never know where the kids
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  Speaker 4: heads are going to be at when you die. Now,
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  Speaker 4: if you want one of them to get the house, well,
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  Speaker 4: then yes, you need this first rate you know of
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  Speaker 4: refusal to allow you know, but really make sure that
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  Speaker 4: the child either has enough money to buy out the
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  Speaker 4: others or to keep things equal. You know, you can
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  Speaker 4: you can have that person qualify for a mortgage. So
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  Speaker 4: when you're doing that, you got to make sure you
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  Speaker 4: have the money.
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  Speaker 2: So in this case, Todd, the sisters can tested the will.
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  Speaker 2: Would they still have that option if it weren't a trust.
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  Speaker 4: To contest the trust?
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  Speaker 3: The trust?
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  Speaker 4: You can always file a will contest, that's true. Yeah, always,
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  Speaker 4: But when you start doing things like this, when you
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  Speaker 4: start allocating things differently, you need a will. You need
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  Speaker 4: a no contest clause. And that would be the way
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  Speaker 4: to go because if you put the no contest clause in,
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  Speaker 4: then they wouldn't contest because they're going to lose whatever
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  Speaker 4: they would have got.
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  Speaker 3: Perfect.
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  Speaker 4: So that's a great, great idea. Now, another way to
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  Speaker 4: do it is you know, and if you're not you know,
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  Speaker 4: so that's the writer first refusal, and then you know,
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  Speaker 4: if you're if it's not going to be held in trust,
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  Speaker 4: Let's say one kid gets the right to live there. Well,
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  Speaker 4: we just want that child to live there because they
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  Speaker 4: have nowhere to live.
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  Speaker 3: Not necessarily own it.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, they don't have to own it, but they got
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  Speaker 4: to pay all the maintenance, all the upkeep, all the taxes, expenses,
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  Speaker 4: and put teeth in there. You know, if you're over
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  Speaker 4: ninety days, if you move out, if you have a
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  Speaker 4: bill that's not paid for ninety days, you lose it.
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  Speaker 4: If you move out for six consecutive months, if you die,
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  Speaker 4: and then it gets added to the balance and everybody
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  Speaker 4: shares equally. So there's plenty of ways to treat things
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  Speaker 4: when you're dealing with real estate, but you need a
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  Speaker 4: trust to do it, and you need to make sure
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  Speaker 4: that you spell out how you're going to do it,
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  Speaker 4: especially if going to leave one app one real estate
• 10:00
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  Speaker 2: You've been listening to Todd Lutsky a partner with the
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  Speaker 2: law firm of Cushing and Dolan. I'm Susan Powers, a
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  Speaker 2: financial advisor with the Armstrong Advisory Group. We've got much
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  Speaker 1: You're listening to the Legal Exchange with Todd Lunsky, an
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  Speaker 2: Welcome back into the Legal Exchange with Todd Lutsky. I'm
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  Speaker 2: Susan Power as a financial advisor with the Armstrong Advisory Group,
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  Speaker 2: and I'm joined by Todd Lahk, a partner with the
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  Speaker 2: law firm of Cushing and Dolan with a Masters in taxation.
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  Speaker 3: Where are we headed now, Todd, We're.
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  Speaker 4: Going to go over to Illinois. We got an appellet
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  Speaker 4: court case there that I found interesting. The undue influenced
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  Speaker 4: by the spouse and maybe even the attorney's role attorneys too, Well,
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  Speaker 4: maybe not. Let's see, so Mark owned a large portion
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  Speaker 4: of shares in his family business, Kaufman Truck Sales, Inc. Okay,
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  Speaker 4: and a one third interest in Kaufman Real Estate LLC,
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  Speaker 4: which owned the land that the business operated. Out of
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  Speaker 4: very common arrangement. Two thousand and one, Mark's estate plan
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  Speaker 4: says upon his death his wife Dorothy, upon Dorothy's death,
• 14:50
  Speaker 4: so after the both of them die, upon Dorothy's death,
• 14:54
  Speaker 4: the Kaufman business assets, all of them would go to
• 14:57
  Speaker 4: his siblings or their kid which is interesting. Maybe they
• 15:02
  Speaker 4: were involved in the business. Keep that in mind when
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  Speaker 4: you got a business interest. Well, Dorothy, as trustee had
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  Speaker 4: the power to distribute to herself all the income and
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  Speaker 4: principle from the trust except not from the assets comprising
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  Speaker 4: of Mark's business or sale proceeds from the business assets.
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  Speaker 4: So a little exception exclusion okay. Well, twenty eighteen, after
• 15:29
  Speaker 4: entering hospice due to having cancer, he did a new
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  Speaker 4: will which distributed Mark's business interest to Dorothy outright and
• 15:39
  Speaker 4: authorized her to name and all the recipients of the
• 15:43
  Speaker 4: ownership interests of the business at her death.
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  Speaker 3: So she basically got everything, not as siblings.
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  Speaker 4: Not as siblings. Well, after Mark's death in twenty eighteen,
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  Speaker 4: the will was admitted to probate, of course, to siblings.
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  Speaker 4: A meetiate ly contested the will, stating that it was
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  Speaker 4: a product of undue influence by the wife. Hmm. It's
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  Speaker 4: a tough road to hoe when it's your wife or
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  Speaker 4: your spouse. And as you might imagine, the court dismissed
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  Speaker 4: us and found that there was no evidence of any
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  Speaker 4: undue influence while the siblings during the case, while it
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  Speaker 4: was pending with the Supreme Court, they sued the attorney
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  Speaker 4: for malpractice, saying, you're not ensuring that it was Mark's
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  Speaker 4: real wishes all. The attorney immediately filed a summary judgment
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  Speaker 4: motion stating that, hey, we have no duty of care
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  Speaker 4: to the siblings, right and as you might imagine, and
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  Speaker 4: I agree. The court agreed, and they approved the summary judgment. Well,
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  Speaker 4: the appellate court, of course, they didn't like that, so
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  Speaker 4: they appealed. The appellate court affirmed, stating siblings would have
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  Speaker 4: to have to prove that the will did not reflect
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  Speaker 4: Mark's true intent, and they were unable to do that.
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  Speaker 4: All evidence showed that Mark was competent. These were his
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  Speaker 4: wishes and he was able to act the way he acted.
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  Speaker 4: He changed his mind, changed his mind's my spouse right, right,
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  Speaker 4: So at the end of the day, nobody everything worked out.
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  Speaker 4: And again it's by doing your planning your wishes are going.
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  Speaker 3: To get on, yeah, rather than doing nothing right.
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  Speaker 4: And again, change your mind.
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  Speaker 2: They're your wishes until you're dead exactly.
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  Speaker 4: And folks, that's kind of what I want you to
• 17:25
  Speaker 4: think about when you let's say you've never done your
• 17:27
  Speaker 4: estate planning. The guide we're giving away might be the
• 17:30
  Speaker 4: easiest way for you to kick off your estate plan right.
• 17:33
  Speaker 4: I never understood trust. Well, this is a joint revocable
• 17:36
  Speaker 4: trust for a married couple. Your life doesn't change. You
• 17:39
  Speaker 4: remain in control, and it's simple to retitle. You don't
• 17:42
  Speaker 4: have to split assets. Everything goes into one trust. You
• 17:46
  Speaker 4: control it while you're both alive. The survivor controls that.
• 17:49
  Speaker 4: It explains the savings of the estate tax and the
• 17:52
  Speaker 4: real beauty is you get a full step up in
• 17:54
  Speaker 4: basis on the first death. You can shelter more assets
• 17:58
  Speaker 4: for a state taxes than you can if you divide
• 18:00
  Speaker 4: him between the two. And you can even have a
• 18:03
  Speaker 4: designed so that on the second death you can get
• 18:05
  Speaker 4: another step up in basis. I keep saying that because
• 18:08
  Speaker 4: you're winning on the estate tax front with this and
• 18:11
  Speaker 4: the income tax front with this. Remember the basis is
• 18:14
  Speaker 4: important because the exemptions are really high after the new
• 18:18
  Speaker 4: BBBA that passed. So folks get the guide The Simplicity
• 18:23
  Speaker 4: of Joint Revocable Trusts eight six six eight four eight
• 18:28
  Speaker 4: five six ninety nine or Legal Exchange Show dot com.
• 18:31
  Speaker 4: You can download it there eight six six eight four
• 18:35
  Speaker 4: eight five six nine nine or Legal Exchange Show dot com.
• 18:42
  Speaker 4: What are we going to learn from this?
• 18:43
  Speaker 3: I think lots.
• 18:44
  Speaker 4: I think lots too. Let's talk about it. It's really
• 18:46
  Speaker 4: more of a business. When you have a business, right
• 18:48
  Speaker 4: you really need to figure out what to do. So
• 18:50
  Speaker 4: he did. He had a trust plan done here, which
• 18:53
  Speaker 4: I like. Right, it was important, you know, from an
• 18:56
  Speaker 4: estate tax savings standpoint, you want to make sure that
• 18:59
  Speaker 4: you've got a trust in place to do your planning.
• 19:02
  Speaker 4: I know there's a business here too, and I want
• 19:03
  Speaker 4: to talk about both, you know, but also you know,
• 19:07
  Speaker 4: the important thing was when you have the business, you
• 19:10
  Speaker 4: need to make sure you have a trust in place.
• 19:12
  Speaker 4: Now here. The problem they did with this trust though
• 19:14
  Speaker 4: was in the beginning it's said that all income and
• 19:19
  Speaker 4: principle can be paid out to Dorothy excluding the business.
• 19:22
  Speaker 4: Well that's good, it preserves the business. But you really
• 19:26
  Speaker 4: need to limit the access to the principle or the
• 19:29
  Speaker 4: income subject to health, education, maintenance support, those standards that
• 19:33
  Speaker 4: we talk a lot about, Susan, And you need to
• 19:36
  Speaker 4: have a marital share and a remainder share to be
• 19:39
  Speaker 4: able to shelter these assets from a state taxes. If
• 19:42
  Speaker 4: you turn around and draft a trust and just say
• 19:44
  Speaker 4: and again he changed it, even giving her the business assets. Remember,
• 19:48
  Speaker 4: so if you change it and you have a document
• 19:51
  Speaker 4: that says, yeah, the surviving spouse can just take everything
• 19:55
  Speaker 4: with no standard, well that's called a general power of appointment,
• 19:59
  Speaker 4: and you really have nothing sheltered on the first death.
• 20:02
  Speaker 4: You really need to set up that marital share and
• 20:05
  Speaker 4: that remainder share inside the trust. So, while I know
• 20:08
  Speaker 4: the focus on this is how to handle a business,
• 20:10
  Speaker 4: which we're going to talk about in a minute, we
• 20:12
  Speaker 4: can't forget when we're drafting the basics you need. You
• 20:18
  Speaker 4: need the estate tax reduction and the savings and the
• 20:21
  Speaker 4: marital share and the remainder share and you can still
• 20:24
  Speaker 4: you know, control how the business goes. Boy, this drafting
• 20:28
  Speaker 4: just kind of yeah, kind of bling.
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: That speaks volumes to why you need someone who has
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: that knowledge and expertise about the taxation part of your
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: estate planning.
• 20:38
  Speaker 3: Yeah, truly.
• 20:39
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 20:39
  Speaker 3: People that just say, oh, I can draft you trust right?
• 20:42
  Speaker 4: Maybe not? Yeah, And so it's really important folks to
• 20:46
  Speaker 4: make sure these are drafted properly to get you know,
• 20:49
  Speaker 4: the taxing side. And I know that's not part of
• 20:51
  Speaker 4: the case, but that's my point is to what can
• 20:53
  Speaker 4: we learn from this? And that's a lesson that wasn't
• 20:55
  Speaker 4: even brought up in the litigations. Switch gears to the business.
• 21:02
  Speaker 4: So on the business. Remember, it is important when you
• 21:04
  Speaker 4: have a business to control it. Maybe you do not
• 21:07
  Speaker 4: want control of the business in the hands of the
• 21:10
  Speaker 4: spouse if the spouse has never been involved in the business,
• 21:13
  Speaker 4: doesn't matter who it is. Yeah, it could be the husband,
• 21:16
  Speaker 4: the wife, doesn't matter. If you're not involved in the business,
• 21:19
  Speaker 4: you might not want that person running the business when
• 21:21
  Speaker 4: you're dead.
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: I would think that let's say there's three siblings and
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: they all own the business together, that they would have
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: a business succession plan in place that would override whatever
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: their individual estate plans say.
• 21:36
  Speaker 4: That's exactly what you would need, right, So the trust
• 21:38
  Speaker 4: is important. But in addition to the trust, you'll have
• 21:41
  Speaker 4: the shares held in the trust. But you put together
• 21:44
  Speaker 4: what you're referring to, I believe, Susan would be a
• 21:46
  Speaker 4: by sell agreement exactly. And here, if the siblings truly
• 21:50
  Speaker 4: were running the show, If the siblings were truly involved
• 21:54
  Speaker 4: in this, and they may have been, since Mark wanted
• 21:58
  Speaker 4: to leave this to them, it's all right. Then you
• 22:02
  Speaker 4: put a buy sell agreement that says on the date
• 22:05
  Speaker 4: of death, and there's other trigger events we won't get
• 22:07
  Speaker 4: into in the buy sell agreement, but on the date
• 22:09
  Speaker 4: of death you have life insurance in place. And this
• 22:12
  Speaker 4: way the kids or the siblings would receive the life
• 22:17
  Speaker 4: insurance on the life of Mark when he dies. They
• 22:20
  Speaker 4: get that money income tax free because it's life insurance. Meanwhile,
• 22:26
  Speaker 4: Mark's trust owns the shares of the business, so they
• 22:31
  Speaker 4: get a step up in basis on the date of
• 22:33
  Speaker 4: Mark's death. And then what Mark is under this buy
• 22:38
  Speaker 4: sell agreement, His estate is forced to sell the stock
• 22:42
  Speaker 4: based on the valuations done in the buy sell agreement
• 22:45
  Speaker 4: to the siblings. The siblings take the life insurance money
• 22:48
  Speaker 4: and give it to the spouse. There's no capital gains
• 22:52
  Speaker 4: tax on the sale by the estate because of the
• 22:54
  Speaker 4: step up in basis. The money is available to the
• 22:59
  Speaker 4: siblings to buy out and the family got money instead
• 23:04
  Speaker 4: of controlling the company for a sibling, for a spouse
• 23:07
  Speaker 4: to have a stock in a business that they can't run,
• 23:10
  Speaker 4: it's not helpful. They rather have the money cash. Yeah,
• 23:12
  Speaker 4: So there's so many ways to help your family folks
• 23:16
  Speaker 4: figure it out. Get this guide. It's called the Simplicity
• 23:19
  Speaker 4: of Joint Revocable Trusts. It so it makes the state
• 23:23
  Speaker 4: planning so much easier for you. You put assets into
• 23:26
  Speaker 4: one trust and you can give it away easier eight
• 23:29
  Speaker 4: six six eight four eight five six nine to nine
• 23:33
  Speaker 4: or Legal Exchange show dot com.
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: You've been listening to Todd Lutsky, a partner with the
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: law firm of Cushing and Dolan. I'm Susan Powers of
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: financial Advisor with the Armstrong Advisory Group, and Todd will
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: be answering your listener questions when we return to the
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: Legal Exchange with Todd Lutsky.
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: The state planning isn't just about taxes, It's about peace
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: of Mind. At Cushing and Dolan, we believe your plan
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: should protect your family complicate your life. A joint revocable
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: trust can help you do both. It lets you avoid probate,
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: which means no court delays, no public filings, and no
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: stress for your loved ones. Your estate stays private and
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: your family stays in control. Our new guide, The Simplicity
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: of Joint Revocable Trusts also explains how a trust can
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: protect your children's inheritance from creditors, divorce, or bad financial
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: decisions down the road. This guide makes it easy to
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: understand why a joint trust may be the smart move
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: for your family's future. Call eight six six eight four
• 24:29
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• 24:31
  Speaker 1: your free copy of The Simplicity of Joint Revocable Trusts
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: that's eight six six eight four eight five six ninety nine,
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: or requested online from our website Legal exchange show dot com.
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: The proceeding was paid for in The views expressed are
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: solely those of Cushing and Dolan. Cushing and Dolan and
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: or Armstrong Advisory may contact you offering legal investment services.
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  Speaker 4: Hi.
• 26:24
  Speaker 7: This is Chuck Zada from the Armstrong Advisory Group. Your
• 26:26
  Speaker 7: home is more than just a place to live, it's
• 26:28
  Speaker 7: part of your story. In retirement, real estate can play
• 26:31
  Speaker 7: a powerful role in how you manage your wealth and
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  Speaker 7: plan for the next generation. Passing property to family members
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  Speaker 7: isn't always easy. One child might want to keep the
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  Speaker 7: home while another prefers to sell it. Maintenance costs, taxes,
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• 27:11
  Speaker 1: The proceeding was paid for by Armstrong Advisory Group, a
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: registered investment advisor. Nothing in the ad or in any
• 27:15
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• 27:18
  Speaker 1: your own financial tax into state planning advisors before making
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  Speaker 1: any investment decisions. Armstrong make contact you to offer investment
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: advisory services. You're listening to the Legal Exchange and it's
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: time for Ask Todd, the segment where Todd will answer
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: your questions about anything and everything that's included in the
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: estate planning process. Once again, here's Todd Lutsky and Susan Powers.
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: Welcome back, Todd. I have a few questions from listeners
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: for you. First question comes from Lisa in Rehoboth, Mass
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: and Lisa writes, my husband and I just crossed the
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: eight million mark in assets, and we're totally confused. Should
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: we be using one joint trust instead of two separate ones?
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: What actually makes more sense. We're family like ours.
• 28:02
  Speaker 4: This is perfect because this is when you think about
• 28:06
  Speaker 4: starting to do your estate plan, which is really what
• 28:09
  Speaker 4: this is all about. You know, what kind of trust
• 28:12
  Speaker 4: do you need? You start with the size of someone's estate.
• 28:15
  Speaker 4: So that's why I'm focused on the eight million here, folks,
• 28:18
  Speaker 4: So you look at your own assets, right, eight million
• 28:22
  Speaker 4: puts us at a place where, regardless of their age,
• 28:25
  Speaker 4: I'm going to assume their retirement age. Right. Sure, you know,
• 28:31
  Speaker 4: probably not worried about nursing home planning. I say that
• 28:35
  Speaker 4: because most people I meet in this you know, five
• 28:38
  Speaker 4: million and up six million in up range, probably have
• 28:42
  Speaker 4: enough money that they're self insured, meaning sure they're generating
• 28:46
  Speaker 4: interest dividends with their investments, they have social Security, they
• 28:49
  Speaker 4: have pension, they add all that together or required minimum distributions,
• 28:53
  Speaker 4: et cetera, and there's probably enough money coming in to
• 28:58
  Speaker 4: cover the cost private pay, private pay, So your your
• 29:02
  Speaker 4: principle is already protected anyway, So you don't you don't
• 29:06
  Speaker 4: care about that, and you're more focused on a state taxes. Well, great.
• 29:10
  Speaker 4: Then when you focus on a state in probate, you say, well,
• 29:13
  Speaker 4: we have a fifteen million call it January one exemption
• 29:19
  Speaker 4: federally and a two million for the state. Well, I
• 29:21
  Speaker 4: need a revocable trust. And because my estate is what
• 29:25
  Speaker 4: I like to call a moderate estate. And again, don't
• 29:28
  Speaker 4: look at this and say, oh, eight millions moderate, No,
• 29:30
  Speaker 4: eight millions great, But it's moderate because the federal exemption
• 29:34
  Speaker 4: is fifteen million from.
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: A tax perspective, from the federal tax perspective, and that's.
• 29:38
  Speaker 3: Eight so fifteen each, so thirty thirty.
• 29:41
  Speaker 4: Yeah, So when we're talking, you know every bit of
• 29:44
  Speaker 4: a state's you know, under fifteen million for sure, you
• 29:47
  Speaker 4: know you could do a joint revocable trust. So I
• 29:51
  Speaker 4: finally answer the question for them, a joint revocable trust
• 29:55
  Speaker 4: would be better. Now why again, usually you can't you
• 30:00
  Speaker 4: know a lot of that could be IRA money. Well,
• 30:02
  Speaker 4: IRA money can't go into even if you had a
• 30:05
  Speaker 4: husband and wife trust, you can't put money from an
• 30:07
  Speaker 4: IRA into the trust. So the amount of assets you
• 30:10
  Speaker 4: might have there might only be six million available for
• 30:14
  Speaker 4: that are non IRA money, right, And so if I
• 30:17
  Speaker 4: have six million dollars and I have two trusts, I'm
• 30:20
  Speaker 4: going to have to say, well, I'm going to put
• 30:22
  Speaker 4: three in each trust. That's okay. It kind of gets
• 30:25
  Speaker 4: me to where I need to be for the estate
• 30:26
  Speaker 4: tax purposes for mass. But you know what, I can
• 30:30
  Speaker 4: only shelter three if I have a joint trust. I
• 30:34
  Speaker 4: put the all six in the joint trust. And now
• 30:37
  Speaker 4: there's language in the joint trust that's called a general
• 30:40
  Speaker 4: power of appointment, which means it doesn't matter who contributed.
• 30:45
  Speaker 4: There's language that says the first to die has the
• 30:48
  Speaker 4: power to direct where the other ones half goes, including
• 30:52
  Speaker 4: to themselves and vice versa. In English, that means that
• 30:56
  Speaker 4: not only what you contributed is included in your estate
• 30:59
  Speaker 4: when you die, but what your spouse contributed is included
• 31:02
  Speaker 4: in your estate when you die. And so now you
• 31:07
  Speaker 4: get full inclusion of the six million dollars in my example,
• 31:11
  Speaker 4: assuming you could only put six in, and it will
• 31:15
  Speaker 4: now be fully stepped up in basis, so everything is
• 31:19
  Speaker 4: included on the first death, and therefore everything is a
• 31:22
  Speaker 4: step up on the first death, and federally, the whole
• 31:26
  Speaker 4: six million is sheltered first eight taxes, So if she
• 31:29
  Speaker 4: dies the next day, she's worth two million, which is
• 31:31
  Speaker 4: the ira money. Wow. Right, So you're really able to
• 31:35
  Speaker 4: cram down a lot more on the first death than
• 31:38
  Speaker 4: you can on the second. And if you read the guide,
• 31:41
  Speaker 4: you're going to learn a little bit about how you
• 31:43
  Speaker 4: could get maybe a second step up when the survivor
• 31:48
  Speaker 4: dies through using these joint trusts, and of course all
• 31:52
  Speaker 4: the other benefits folks, This guide, the simplicity of joint
• 31:56
  Speaker 4: trusts really is exactly what I was just describing in
• 32:00
  Speaker 4: in this example. But it also don't forget, it also
• 32:03
  Speaker 4: lives on like any other trust, like a dynasty trust,
• 32:05
  Speaker 4: and it provides for divorce proofing and credit or protection
• 32:09
  Speaker 4: and everything else that your other trust would do. So
• 32:12
  Speaker 4: this might be for you, folks, if you've never started
• 32:14
  Speaker 4: your estate plan and are wondering what kind of trust
• 32:16
  Speaker 4: is right for you and something that's not going to
• 32:19
  Speaker 4: overly complicate your life. This guides for you, this Simplicity
• 32:24
  Speaker 4: of joint revocable trust, brand new guide for the month
• 32:28
  Speaker 4: and never given away before actually eight six six eight
• 32:32
  Speaker 4: four eight five six nine nine or Legal Exchange Show
• 32:36
  Speaker 4: dot Com again Simplicity of joint revocable Trust Call and
• 32:40
  Speaker 4: get it eight six six eight four eight five six
• 32:44
  Speaker 4: nine nine or Legal Exchange show dot com todd.
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: Our last question comes from Kevin in Wallingford, Connecticut, and
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: Kevin writes, We've got two great kids, but one of
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: them married someone we're not so sure about. Can we
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: use a trust to protect our child's inheritance in case
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: that marriage goes sideways?
• 33:04
  Speaker 3: Is there any we're down?
• 33:06
  Speaker 4: Is there anyone that when our children marry that we're
• 33:10
  Speaker 4: very sure about.
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: Listen, if you asked my mother in law, she would
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: say absolutely, I'm my mother in law's favorite child.
• 33:18
  Speaker 4: There you go. You're the exception to the rule. You're
• 33:20
  Speaker 4: outside the bell curve. So but no, it's it's true.
• 33:24
  Speaker 4: I always tell people they say, oh, no, no, I
• 33:26
  Speaker 4: love my in laws, and I say, no, you only
• 33:28
  Speaker 4: think you do until something goes wrong.
• 33:32
  Speaker 3: You trust him, but I don't.
• 33:34
  Speaker 4: So so the answer is yes, obviously, And again the
• 33:37
  Speaker 4: type of trust isn't really going to matter. Just so
• 33:40
  Speaker 4: you know, I know we're kind of focusing this month
• 33:42
  Speaker 4: on these joint revocable trusts, but I want you to
• 33:46
  Speaker 4: understand that when you're talking about the dying part, when
• 33:51
  Speaker 4: you're talking about the trust living on after you're gone, right,
• 33:57
  Speaker 4: it doesn't matter what kind of trust you set up
• 34:00
  Speaker 4: while you're alive. It can be a joint revocable trust.
• 34:04
  Speaker 4: It can be a husband wife separate revocable trust. It
• 34:07
  Speaker 4: can be irrevocable medicaid trust. It can be joint irrevocable medicaid.
• 34:12
  Speaker 4: I mean, it doesn't matter the kind of trust, because
• 34:16
  Speaker 4: when you die, every trust is irrevocable.
• 34:21
  Speaker 3: Because you're dead.
• 34:22
  Speaker 4: Can't revoke it, can't revoke it. So it's it's like
• 34:24
  Speaker 4: an obvious thing, but until you say it, sometimes you
• 34:27
  Speaker 4: don't realize, oh, yeah, how did that happen while you're dead. Yes,
• 34:30
  Speaker 4: it's it's just one of those things.
• 34:31
  Speaker 3: You're the only.
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: One that can revoke it, and you cannot any longer.
• 34:34
  Speaker 4: And so at that point, now you read the guts
• 34:39
  Speaker 4: of the trust right, and that those guts are going
• 34:42
  Speaker 4: to have to have special language in it in order
• 34:45
  Speaker 4: to do this. And when I tell clients this all
• 34:47
  Speaker 4: the time, I say, okay, now we're at the dying part.
• 34:49
  Speaker 4: I always preface it by saying there is no right
• 34:52
  Speaker 4: or wrong answer to these questions. These questions are simply
• 34:56
  Speaker 4: a function of how you feel about your children and
• 35:01
  Speaker 4: whether they're good kids, level headed, bad spenders, horrible with money,
• 35:05
  Speaker 4: on drugs, have problem marriage. I mean, I don't know
• 35:08
  Speaker 4: that you guys tell us about.
• 35:12
  Speaker 3: Your family and that dynamic.
• 35:14
  Speaker 4: That dynamic is what's going to dictate, you know, how
• 35:18
  Speaker 4: we draft this part of the trust. So staying with
• 35:22
  Speaker 4: Kevin's question, and I say all that for everybody else
• 35:26
  Speaker 4: that's listening, because you might have your own situation. Now,
• 35:31
  Speaker 4: staying with Kevin's example, this case, we would say, since
• 35:37
  Speaker 4: you know it says our child's inheritances, is there only
• 35:39
  Speaker 4: one child?
• 35:41
  Speaker 3: I'm concerned about the one that's married.
• 35:43
  Speaker 4: And that's a great point. I wouldn't want to treat
• 35:47
  Speaker 4: one differently than the other. So if I'm going to
• 35:49
  Speaker 4: be doing it for one, I'd be doing it for
• 35:51
  Speaker 4: the other so that they don't feel ostracized.
• 35:53
  Speaker 3: So even if the other one's not married.
• 35:54
  Speaker 4: Yeah, even if they're not married. Because of the flexibility
• 35:57
  Speaker 4: that's built in, it'll be irrevocable. You could put both
• 36:00
  Speaker 4: kids on as trustees. There's two, it's okay, you don't
• 36:03
  Speaker 4: have to, and they would be the general trustees, managing
• 36:08
  Speaker 4: and investing their buckets. I don't know however, much money's
• 36:11
  Speaker 4: in there.
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 36:12
  Speaker 4: Let's use the eight million dollar example above and say
• 36:14
  Speaker 4: four million in each bucket. Okay, they're managing and investing
• 36:18
  Speaker 4: the money, but they can't get it. The only way
• 36:21
  Speaker 4: they get it is they appoint an independent trustee who
• 36:25
  Speaker 4: they can remove and replace again. If you love them,
• 36:27
  Speaker 4: if you think they're level headed, give them the power.
• 36:29
  Speaker 4: It's great power. So they can appoint and remove an
• 36:33
  Speaker 4: independent trustee whose only job is to decide whether or
• 36:37
  Speaker 4: not distribution should be made to them or their children
• 36:40
  Speaker 4: out of their respective buckets, and they can't steal from
• 36:43
  Speaker 4: each other. That power means that when the divorce comes,
• 36:47
  Speaker 4: they don't own it, and if they don't own it,
• 36:50
  Speaker 4: they can't get it. It's not subject to the marriage.
• 36:54
  Speaker 4: That's the simplicity of it. Folks, call and get the
• 36:57
  Speaker 4: guide learn how that can be drafted into this as
• 37:00
  Speaker 4: well eight six six eight four eight five six nine
• 37:04
  Speaker 4: to nine or Legal Exchange Show dot com and you
• 37:07
  Speaker 4: can download it right there.
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: If you have a question you would like to ask Todd,
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: visit his website Legal Exchange Show dot com and click
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: on the as Tod tab. Maybe I'll be able to
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: read your question on the air, and hopefully his answer
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: will stop you from becoming one of his next real
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: life stories. You've been listening to Todd Lutsky, a partner
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: with the law firm of Cushing and Dolan. I'm Susan Powers,
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: a financial advisor with the Armstrong Advisory Group. We'll be
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: back with more after this quick break on the legal
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: exchange with Todd Lutski.
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: The state planning isn't just about taxes, It's about peace
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: of mind. At Cushing and Dolan, we believe your plan
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: should protect your family, not complicate your life. A joint
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: revocable trust can help you do both. It lets you
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: avoid probate, which means no court delays, no public filings,
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: and no stress for your loved ones. Your state stays
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: private and your family stays in control. Our new guide,
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: The Simplicity of Joint Revocable Trusts, also explains how a
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: trust can protect your children's inheritance from creditors, divorce, or
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: bad financial decisions down the road. This guide makes it
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: easy to understand why a joint trust may be the
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: smart move for your family's future. Call eight six six
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: eight four eight five six ninety nine right now and
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: ask for your free copy of the Simplicity of Joint
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: Revocable Trusts. That's eight six six eight four eight five
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: six ninety nine, or requested online from our website Legal
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: exchange show dot com. The proceeding was paid for in
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: The views expressed are solely those of Cushing and Dolan.
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: Cushing and Dolan in or Armstrong Advisory may contact you
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: offering legal or investment services. Cushing and Dolan in Armstrong
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: Advisory do not endorse each other in are not affiliated.
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  Speaker 1: The proceeding was paid for by Armstrong Advisory Group, a
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• 40:43
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• 40:54
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• 40:56
  Speaker 1: online at Legal Exchange show dot com.
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: Welcome back into the Legal Exchange with Todd Lutsky. I'm
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: Susan Powers, a financial advisor with the Armstrong Advisory Group,
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: and I'm joined, of course by Todd Lutsky, a partner
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: with a law firm of Cushing and Dolan with a
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: master's in taxation. So Todd today, I have a real
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: life story for you.
• 41:19
  Speaker 4: I'm all, heres, I'm a little worried, but go ahead.
• 41:21
  Speaker 3: Nope, don't be worried.
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: I met with clients this past week and they actually
• 41:25
  Speaker 2: have scheduled to come and meet with you. But I
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: thought maybe we could do a sneak peak of forcial situation. Yes, Execs,
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: you'll be so prepped for their meeting.
• 41:35
  Speaker 4: You don't get to use the word foreshadowing a lot
• 41:37
  Speaker 4: in English. How about that I do, We're foreshadowing.
• 41:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you got it? Okay.
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: Husband and wife, they just turned sixty. They have not
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: done any planning yet. They have two I arrays about
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: two million total. They have other investments in bank accounts
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: of about five hundred thousand. They have two houses, one
• 41:59
  Speaker 2: in my one in Florida. Total is around three million.
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: They have two kids, a daughter and a son. The
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: son has dependency issues and the daughter runs the husband's
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: business with him. So they're both very much involved in
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: his very successful business. And I would say the business
• 42:22
  Speaker 2: is probably worth I'm guessing here it's got to be
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: five million.
• 42:27
  Speaker 4: Wow.
• 42:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's an international business that he runs small but
• 42:31
  Speaker 3: big Okay, no, that's true. So for them, what would
• 42:37
  Speaker 3: you recommend?
• 42:38
  Speaker 4: So they're looking at about ten million, ten point five
• 42:42
  Speaker 4: ten million, ten point five million.
• 42:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, their biggest concern is not putting money in the
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: hands of their son because of his dependency issues. They
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: just think nothing good will come of that. That's fine,
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: that's that's their overwriting concern.
• 42:56
  Speaker 4: We'll probably treat both kids the same though. But yeah,
• 43:00
  Speaker 4: protection wise, yeah, it's always good. Even when we talk
• 43:03
  Speaker 4: about protecting assets for children, you know, one might be
• 43:08
  Speaker 4: because they're a dependency. One might just because we're worried
• 43:10
  Speaker 4: about divorces. So it doesn't matter the reason for the protection,
• 43:13
  Speaker 4: the language is the same. And another note, just to
• 43:17
  Speaker 4: help people remember if they are residents of mass in
• 43:20
  Speaker 4: this case, Massachusetts cannot tax out of state property. Okay,
• 43:25
  Speaker 4: so the good news is at least the Florida property
• 43:28
  Speaker 4: would not be subject to tax in Massy Okay at all,
• 43:33
  Speaker 4: assuming they remain residents of mass But so what federally
• 43:37
  Speaker 4: they're worth ten million, ten point five million. So when
• 43:41
  Speaker 4: I look at that, the first thing we say is, well,
• 43:43
  Speaker 4: we don't need nursing home planning. We're self insured. Secondly,
• 43:46
  Speaker 4: we're worried about a state taxes. We have a fifteen
• 43:48
  Speaker 4: million dollar exemption each, So we need a trust not
• 43:51
  Speaker 4: just for taxes and probate. And by the way, Florida
• 43:54
  Speaker 4: multiple states of probate. If we don't put the real
• 43:56
  Speaker 4: estate inside of trust, you're going to be looking at
• 43:59
  Speaker 4: probated in multi utiple states. So we certainly want probate
• 44:02
  Speaker 4: to be avoided everywhere. And of course we focus on
• 44:05
  Speaker 4: the state taxes. And then of course the bloodline planning
• 44:08
  Speaker 4: piece seems to be our important part. And I can't
• 44:12
  Speaker 4: ignore a business. When you have a business, you really
• 44:15
  Speaker 4: have to spend a little extra time sort of focusing
• 44:18
  Speaker 4: on the business side of things. So with that said,
• 44:23
  Speaker 4: let's take a peek. I would suggest probably the joint
• 44:28
  Speaker 4: trust would be the way to go in this case.
• 44:32
  Speaker 4: And I would start with the joint trust, which is interesting.
• 44:34
  Speaker 4: That's what we're doing in our guide, and the beauty
• 44:37
  Speaker 4: of it. Part of the beauty of it is we can
• 44:39
  Speaker 4: now start to put everything in it, right, everything except
• 44:45
  Speaker 4: the iras. And I still have clients. They always come
• 44:47
  Speaker 4: to me and they say, well, I got this one
• 44:49
  Speaker 4: investment account over here I use for this, and I
• 44:51
  Speaker 4: have this other one I use for this, and there's
• 44:53
  Speaker 4: our special name for this one. Yeah, doesn't matter, folks,
• 44:56
  Speaker 4: Every non IRA bank and investment account, everyone retitle it
• 45:03
  Speaker 4: to the trust. Okay, name owner, trust, not the IRA.
• 45:07
  Speaker 4: The beneficiary though, will also be important to title that
• 45:10
  Speaker 4: to the trust. We will take that and we will
• 45:12
  Speaker 4: make the primary the spouses always and the contingent the
• 45:19
  Speaker 4: trust yep, Okay important. Why because we're thinking about how
• 45:23
  Speaker 4: we're going to leave things when we're both done as well.
• 45:25
  Speaker 4: That's to protect the kids. That's why I want to
• 45:28
  Speaker 4: put that in the trust. Okay, it's not going to
• 45:30
  Speaker 4: cause an RMD problem as long as we draft the
• 45:32
  Speaker 4: trust appropriately. So now I've helped, and of course the
• 45:36
  Speaker 4: real estate directly in the trust. You don't have to
• 45:38
  Speaker 4: split anything. It's beautiful. That's the simplicity of the joint trust.
• 45:42
  Speaker 4: Put everything in there, avoid probate in both states. Now
• 45:44
  Speaker 4: we got it funded. Before I talk about that, I
• 45:48
  Speaker 4: want you to understand this is exactly how you would
• 45:52
  Speaker 4: fund the joint trust, which is what our guide is
• 45:54
  Speaker 4: about the simplicity of joint trusts. It explains not only
• 45:58
  Speaker 4: how to fund it, it explains the estate tax savings.
• 46:01
  Speaker 4: It explains to you how you can now both be
• 46:05
  Speaker 4: donors and trustees of one trust. It explains how everything
• 46:09
  Speaker 4: gets crammed down on the first death, and that's really
• 46:12
  Speaker 4: the key. You're gonna see it in this example. We're
• 46:15
  Speaker 4: gonna shelter more assets on the first death than we
• 46:17
  Speaker 4: ever could with two, and we're gonna get a full
• 46:20
  Speaker 4: step up in basis. Folks, with the high estate tax
• 46:23
  Speaker 4: exemptions in play for at least the next three years.
• 46:27
  Speaker 4: This is a wonderful way to take advantage of both
• 46:30
  Speaker 4: estate tax savings and income tax savings. Call and get
• 46:36
  Speaker 4: the guide eight six six eight four eight five six
• 46:40
  Speaker 4: nine nine or Legal Exchange Show dot com. You can
• 46:43
  Speaker 4: download it. Get there again, the Simplicity of joint Revocable
• 46:47
  Speaker 4: Trust Brand New Guide eight six six eight four eight
• 46:51
  Speaker 4: five six nine nine or Legal Exchange Show dot com. Now,
• 46:58
  Speaker 4: now we got this joint trust all funded first and foremost, folks,
• 47:04
  Speaker 4: Mom and dad, husband and wife here. Their life's not
• 47:07
  Speaker 4: going to change at all, and not so many people
• 47:09
  Speaker 4: coming in his house. It's so complicated and overwhelmed. This
• 47:11
  Speaker 4: document is sixty pages long, God matter, no matterity page
• 47:15
  Speaker 4: as long as is. It's a revocable trust and your
• 47:18
  Speaker 4: life's going to go on exactly the same. You're gonna
• 47:20
  Speaker 4: run the business. You're gonna do all that. Oh, by
• 47:22
  Speaker 4: the way, and the business would have been titled to
• 47:24
  Speaker 4: the trust. The shares of the business would have also
• 47:26
  Speaker 4: been titled to the trust. Okay, so our life goes on.
• 47:31
  Speaker 4: We don't have any disruption, and no separate income tax
• 47:34
  Speaker 4: return is needed. So life just runs along really unchanged
• 47:39
  Speaker 4: until someone dies. So now as when you cram down
• 47:42
  Speaker 4: everything on the first death, and all these assets get
• 47:46
  Speaker 4: valued and held in the marital share remainder, share bypass share.
• 47:49
  Speaker 4: We've talked about these lots of times on the show,
• 47:52
  Speaker 4: and it would be continuing for the benefit of the spouse. Now,
• 47:56
  Speaker 4: it does seem to say that the business is something
• 47:59
  Speaker 4: you might need to think about on the first death.
• 48:02
  Speaker 4: You know, do we want the daughter to start getting
• 48:05
  Speaker 4: shares of the business while we're alive. Do we want
• 48:07
  Speaker 4: to have non voting shares transferred over to the daughter
• 48:10
  Speaker 4: while we're living? Do we want to keep voting shares
• 48:13
  Speaker 4: in the business in the trust for the wife to run.
• 48:17
  Speaker 4: You're going to have to talk to the family about that, right,
• 48:19
  Speaker 4: I don't know. It might be that you keep you know,
• 48:22
  Speaker 4: ninety percent of the non voting shares in the business,
• 48:25
  Speaker 4: So the mom can have you know, revenue from the business,
• 48:29
  Speaker 4: but give the voting control to the daughter so she
• 48:31
  Speaker 4: could run the business continue to run it. Yeah, so
• 48:33
  Speaker 4: you're going to have to figure out the dynamics of
• 48:36
  Speaker 4: the business. But that needs to be designed in this trust.
• 48:42
  Speaker 4: Not sure how well she would do it, but you
• 48:45
  Speaker 4: got to learn how involved the wife is.
• 48:46
  Speaker 3: Can I ask a question Todd there right now? I
• 48:49
  Speaker 3: think we said what ten million?
• 48:50
  Speaker 4: Yeah, ten million?
• 48:52
  Speaker 2: So what happens now because they've just recently turned sixty,
• 48:55
  Speaker 2: if they live until you know, they're eighties, if they're
• 48:59
  Speaker 2: a grew above the thirty million whatever the state taxes
• 49:04
  Speaker 2: at that time, would you do additional planning for them
• 49:08
  Speaker 2: along the way as their net worth?
• 49:10
  Speaker 4: Yeah? I think what happened is when you have clients
• 49:13
  Speaker 4: that are higher net worth, they usually call me, you know,
• 49:17
  Speaker 4: sometimes depending on how high their net worth is, you know,
• 49:20
  Speaker 4: sometimes once every November December, at the end of the year,
• 49:23
  Speaker 4: should we do do any of them? Or you know
• 49:25
  Speaker 4: if depending on this size, maybe every three years. You know,
• 49:28
  Speaker 4: they might check in and say, you know, what's our state,
• 49:30
  Speaker 4: what's the net worth, and so you kind of keep
• 49:32
  Speaker 4: track of that. Sure, Planners like you would probably call
• 49:35
  Speaker 4: me and tell me my client's assets grew, so we know,
• 49:39
  Speaker 4: and so we would be planning for it before they die,
• 49:42
  Speaker 4: and it would likely be that they will and everybody
• 49:45
  Speaker 4: needs to know that. You will never outgrow this. But
• 49:48
  Speaker 4: you might need to, as you said, susann ad to it.
• 49:51
  Speaker 4: You might say, all right, let's keep this the way
• 49:53
  Speaker 4: it is, but maybe we set up some kind of
• 49:54
  Speaker 4: gifting trust, maybe we set up a spousal lifetime access trust.
• 49:58
  Speaker 4: Maybe we move assets out of the estate. So there's
• 50:01
  Speaker 4: things to do.
• 50:01
  Speaker 3: And this would still work.
• 50:02
  Speaker 2: Oh, but you just might need to add things on
• 50:05
  Speaker 2: to further reduce taxes.
• 50:07
  Speaker 4: For everything you keep. This still works, okay, and just
• 50:11
  Speaker 4: quickly don't forget to put the language in there to
• 50:13
  Speaker 4: protect the assets from the divorces and the dependency child
• 50:17
  Speaker 4: and the special needs stuff. Folks, call and get the
• 50:20
  Speaker 4: guide The Simplicity of Joint Revocable Trusts eight six six
• 50:26
  Speaker 4: eight four eight five six nine nine or legal exchange
• 50:30
  Speaker 4: show dot com. You can download it right there one
• 50:33
  Speaker 4: more time eight six six eight four eight five six
• 50:37
  Speaker 4: nine nine or Legal exchange Show dot com and you
• 50:41
  Speaker 4: can download the guide right there.
• 50:43
  Speaker 2: Todd Lutsky from the law firm of Cushing and Doughan,
• 50:46
  Speaker 2: thank you so much.
• 50:47
  Speaker 4: Thank you, Susan, always a pleasure.
• 50:49
  Speaker 2: I'm Susan Powers, a financial advisor with the Armstrong Advisory Group.
• 50:53
  Speaker 2: We thank you for joining us today and we'll be
• 50:55
  Speaker 2: back again next week on the Legal Exchange with Todd Lutski.
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: The state planning isn't just about taxes, It's about peace
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: of mind. At Cushing and Dolan, we believe your plan
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: should protect your family, not complicate your life. A joint
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: revocable trust can help you do both. It lets you
• 51:11
  Speaker 1: avoid probate, which means no court delays, no public filings,
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: and no stress for your loved ones. Your estate stays
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: private and your family stays in control. Our new guide,
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: The Simplicity of Joint Revocable Trusts also explains how a
• 51:24
  Speaker 1: trust can protect your children's inheritance from creditors, divorce, or
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: bad financial decisions down the road. This guide makes it
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: easy to understand why a joint trust may be the
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: smart move for your family's future. Call eight six six
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: eight four eight five six ninety nine right now and
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: ask for your free copy of the Simplicity of Joint
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: Revocable Trusts that's eight six six eight four eight five
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: six ninety nine, or requested online from our website Legal
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: exchange show dot com. The proceeding was paid for in
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: The views expressed are solely those of Cushing and Dolan.
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: Cushing and Dolan and or Armstrong Advisory may contact you
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: offering legal or investment services. Cushing and Dolan in Armstrong
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: Advisory do not endorse each other in or not affiliated HI.
• 52:00
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