Latest / Martyr's Row / Ep. 33 - Is THIS The 1000 Year Reign of Christ?

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Ep. 33 - Is THIS The 1000 Year Reign of Christ? · Martyr's Row

• 0:00
  This week on Martyrs Row... Were the Teenage
• 0:02
  Mutant Ninja Turtles actually Christian missionaries?
• 0:05
  Was Saint Augustine just an emo kid? Why did
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  Noah take so long to build the Ark? Was he lazy
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  or something? Was he just out like playing golf?
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  Or like what was he doing? Is it a thousand years?
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  Like one day? Or is it like 365 ,000 days? Which
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  one is it? I don't know! Let's find out! On Martyrs
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  Row! Three, two, one! Pope Fabian, Pope Fabian,
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  Bishop of Rome, was by the providence of God
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  chosen to the papal chair. For as the people
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  were gathered to elect a bishop, a dove descended
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  and lighted upon his head, whereupon they all
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  cried that he was worthy. For 14 years, he governed
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  the church with great faithfulness and sent forth
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  bishops and missionaries to strengthen the flock.
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  In the persecution under Decius, he was seized
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  and brought before the tribunal, where he made
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  good confession of Christ. Refusing to offer
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  sacrifice to the gods, he was condemned and with
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  steadfast cheerfulness suffered death by the
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  sword. Thus fell this faithful shepherd, whose
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  witness strengthened the church to stand fast
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  in time of trial. Anno Domini, 250. Hey, Paul.
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  Hey, Steven. Oh, it's good to be back on Martyrs
• 1:41
  Row. M -m -m -m -martyrs row. That's where you
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  are. Right here. That's our new jingle. I hope
• 1:48
  you like it. Did we just write it? We did. In
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  real time, you experienced it. Hey, I have a
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  fun question for you. Okay. I hope you haven't
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  seen this yet, but I'm gonna ask you a question.
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  because you might have seen it and you may already
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  know the answers, but here's my question. Other
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  than Jesus, God, or the Holy Spirit, whose names
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  appear in the Bible the most? Top five. So other
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  than the Holy Trinity and any form of use of
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  the Trinity's names, what... are the top five
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  most named people in the Bible. Okay, so the
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  first thought that came to my head was Abraham,
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  Isaac, and Jacob. Those are the first three names
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  that popped into my head. Okay, only one of them
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  is on this list. Is it Abraham? It is not. Jacob?
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  Yes. Okay. And Jacob is number three on this
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  list. And Jacob's name is mentioned 363 times.
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  That's a lot of times. Yes. Okay. And interesting
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  fact, is that Jacob only or Jacob and Israel?
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  Just Jacob. Okay. Wow. And interesting fact,
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  there's only one Jacob in the Old Testament.
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  That's fascinating. Yeah. So the name Jacob is
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  only referring to Jacob who becomes Israel. That's
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  kind of cool. In the Old Testament. Wow. I feel
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  like that's fascinating. That is fascinating.
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  He's number three. So you got four more, top
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  five. So let me try... Think of the big guys.
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  I'm going to say Moses was the other one. Okay,
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  number two. Number two, Elijah. No, no, number
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  two is Moses. No, no, no. I mean, but like another
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  person. But I have more about Moses. Oh, okay.
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  No, I want to get the list. Okay, talking about
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  Moses. Again, there's only one Moses in the Bible.
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  That's true. Yeah. Which is kind of cool. Yeah.
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  I feel like Jacob's harder, but Moses is like,
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  yeah, yeah. There's only one. It's just one Moses.
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  But it's just to think about like that's the,
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  that guy's name's only used once. It's crazy.
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  Yeah. Just cause like even, even the name Enoch
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  is used a couple of times. It's twice. Yeah.
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  So it's true. But Moses's name is mentioned 803
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  times. Wow. So that's second. And then the third
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  one, Jacob is 363 times. It's a huge drop off.
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  Yeah. It's like 400 times more. It's more than
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  twice as much. That's amazing. Pretty crazy.
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  All right, so three more. Okay. I said Elijah
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  Not that that's not on there. Okay. That's just
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  a thought I'm just thinking some big hitters.
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  Yeah Yeah, you're stay in the same space that
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  you were just in. Okay, so I'll try Adam No,
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  I mean, there's only a couple times I really
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  talk about that guy. Yeah He kind of ruined everything
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  Yeah, yeah Noah no, okay, but You said Moses
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  has to think around Moses Okay, Moses Aaron.
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  Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So Aaron is fifth. Oh, so 342
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  times Aaron also the only Aaron in the Bible
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  really very weird, right? That's weird. It is
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  weird But that's very but fact Yeah. Okay. So
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  you got... I want to say like David. David is
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  number one. Number one. Let's go. Number one
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  with a bullet. We love our David. David is said
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  971 times. Wow. And he's the only David in the
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  Bible. That's incredible. Again, very weird.
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  Because this list didn't come with that fact.
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  And I was like, wow, I wonder if there are any
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  other ones. Yeah. And there are not. That's so
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  interesting. So all of these people, David, Moses,
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  Aaron, Jacob, I almost said the fifth one. You
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  were so close. The last one is actually number
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  four. Okay, number four. This person, there are
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  multiple people in the Bible with this name.
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  Okay. And there are two main ones. Old Testament,
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  New Testament, same name. The name that came
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  to my head was Saul. That's it. Okay. I said
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  David and I was like, it has to be Saul because
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  of Paul and King Saul. Yes. Okay. Yeah. So Saul
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  is number four, 362. Nice. And there is King
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  Saul. I would not have guessed that many times.
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  I know, it's a lot. There's Saul of the Edomite
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  King, Saul of the Simeonite genealogy, and then
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  Saul, Paul of Tarsus. That's amazing. So there's
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  four Sauls. Yeah. Wow, that's incredible. Kind
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  of interesting, right? That's really cool. And
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  then here's the last weird thing. So there's
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  only one Jacob. But if you look at the Greek
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  New Testament, the Greek New Testament uses Lakabos,
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  which actually is Jacob. Of course. So every
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  James in English Bibles is literally Jacob. Really?
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  Yes. That means that there are several Jacob's
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  or James's in the New Testament. So when it says
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  James the son of Zebedee, in Greek it says Jacob.
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  Really? Yeah. How did we change it to James?
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  Because it actually is James. Oh, it's just like
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  a modernized? The word in Greek is Jacob. Oh,
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  I see. But their actual name is James. Isn't
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  that weird? That's very weird. Yeah. So then
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  you have like James son of Zebedee. You have
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  James, the son of Alpheus, James, the brother
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  of the Lord or the stepbrother, if you're Catholic.
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  And then James, the father of Judas, not Ascariot.
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  And then James, the less love ourselves and James
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  less good boy. And then James mentioned in genealogies
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  father of Joseph and the husband of Mary. No,
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  no, father of Joseph, the husband of Mary. Okay.
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  Sorry. You know, Joseph who's also James. Who's
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  the father of Joseph and the husband of Mary.
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  A little weird. That's very fascinating. It is,
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  right? Yeah. I haven't seen that before. You
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  have David, then Moses, then Jacob, then Saul,
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  then Aaron. Wow. Those are the top five names
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  mentioned in the Bible. I'm surprised Aaron's
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  mentioned that much, too. Well, you've got to
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  think the Torah. I mean, yeah, he's all over
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  the place because the law, he is the second person
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  in the law. I mean, he is like the first high
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  priest. Yeah, he is. Yeah. Yeah. Which thinking
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  about that, like thinking about the Essenes and
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  stuff like that, like going back to the tradition
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  of Zadok, who is the high priest of Solomon's
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  Temple. Yeah. It's interesting that people don't
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  know that name. You're like, who? I mean, I didn't
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  until I started to go back and look at that.
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  And you start to read and you're like, oh, OK.
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  Yeah, and then Zadak's a pretty important high
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  priest in the line of Levi. But yeah, I thought
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  that was interesting. That's so fascinating.
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  Weird, right? I like that. Cool. Well, let's
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  have fun. Three, two, one. Hey there Augustine,
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  what's it like in ancient history? I'm a thousand
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  years away, but man, your mind still gets so
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  witty Yes it does Though you wrestled sin, you
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  changed your views And you wrote books too Hey
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  there, Augustine, you and Plato made a pairing
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  All your talk of will and grace left Pelagius
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  despairing Oh, it's true Western thoughts still
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  based on you What'd you do? No, it's what you
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  didn't see Your words still shape our liturgy
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  And no, it's what you didn't see Confessions
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  turn to legacy They turn to legacy Hey there
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  Augustine I've been reading your confessions
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  All your pair stealing ways They teach us little
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  lessons that I love You pray, Lord, make me pure,
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  but not yet Are you sure about that? Hey there,
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  Augustine, where theology meant history Your
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  belief was all millennial But not lacking, history's
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  still the same Your shadows long, but say your
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  name Our thoughts not the same, no No, it's what
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  you didn't see Your words still shape our liturgy
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  No, it's what you didn't see Confessions turn
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  to legacy It turned to legacy What's up? I Feel
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  like post the the 90s I guess that like the extended
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  what's up? Yeah, kind of just it's just gonna
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  happen. It just happened I don't know just part
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  of who we are. I can't you're like the wise out
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  I can't stop doing it when have you ever actually
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  seen the commercial? Yeah, I watched it recently
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  for some reason and I was like that's what Caused
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  us to do all of this. Yeah, it's It's good though.
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  It is good. I like, I still enjoy it. And it's
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  also like positive. Yeah. That's what I like
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  about it. Times are weird though, man. Yeah.
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  I wish it was the nineties. I'm emo for the nineties.
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  Even though later one. I really, I feel like,
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  I feel like an imposter if I call myself a nineties
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  kid. I get it. Cause I was. I was born in 94.
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  Yeah, we're both kind of 2000 kids Yeah, which
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  is in a lot of ways like an extension of the
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  90s I feel like the 90s like like like the culture
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  of it didn't really give up and sure like they're
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  like Middle early 2000 that makes sense. Yeah,
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  I feel like 2005 on it really changed. Yeah Yeah,
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  it's like retro like half when you're halfway
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  through something you realize when it began.
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  Yes, that makes sense Yeah, yeah, cuz you know
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  one's like all right Now it's 1990, everything's
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  different. Now change your style. What? That'd
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  actually be kind of cool though. That could be
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  fun. I mean, technically clothing companies do
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  that. Yeah, they do like every month, don't they?
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  I don't know. I don't know anymore, to be honest.
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  I'm just like, that's cool, I'll buy that. Or
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  I'll just buy this and keep it for 10 years.
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  Speaking of keeping things for 10 years, I have
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  a question for you. Okay. I've been thinking.
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  Okay. Yeah, I'm just gonna. I'm just gonna jump
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  right into okay. Do it anyway. Let me go in this
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  long tangent Yes, Paul would you if you had to
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  gather an answer for a bundle of sticks What
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  bundle would you gather for this answer to this
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  question I'm about to ask? Okay. Is this the
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  1 ,000 year reign of Christ? Right now? Right
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  now. Are we in it? Was the 90s? The 1 ,000 year
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  reign of Christ? Honestly, I think if any decade
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  was going to be, it would be the 60s. Yeah, that's
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  probably true. Yeah, everyone wore suits. They
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  were snappy. Yeah. They had cooler cars. Yeah.
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  The 1 ,000 year reign of Christ, are we in it?
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  Yeah, right now. Is this it? Is this it? Are
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  we here? Is this what we're doing? Huh. Is this
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  what we're doing? It's an interesting question,
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  because there's so many elements to unpack. I
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  think one of the first things I think of is just
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  simply the idea that regardless of another podcast
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  we haven't done yet, but like age of the earth,
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  like how long have humans actually been here
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  based on our timeframe? We kind of already know
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  theory of relativity. We know the concept also
• 15:42
  of time as being relative to what place you are
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  in. with rotation of the earth, rotation of the
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  sun, movement of the stars, all of that stuff.
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  Where we know that time is experienced differently
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  depending on how far apart you are from somebody.
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  So there's this linear path of time, but we also
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  know that there's elements of time itself that
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  are kinda tricky. It's not just like everybody's
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  clock is the same. It doesn't really work that
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  way. We all age differently depending where we
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  are in the earth, too Yeah, and depending on
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  like where we travel like there's like really
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  nano like micro levels of time adjustment Yeah,
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  that can happen. Yeah that's that's kind of interesting
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  but This is not a science podcast, which is good
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  because we are way Way ill -equipped for that.
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  We're out of our depth, but it's interesting
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  because I think like maybe this helps preface
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  this, or maybe it doesn't at all, I don't know,
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  but I'm gonna say it anyway. Because this is
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  something we've talked about on other episodes,
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  is like I think I hear it a lot from other Christians,
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  where something bad happens on the earth, whether
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  it's like a hurricane or somebody gets killed
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  or something bad happens, that people are like,
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  oh well, things are supposed to get worse before
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  they get better. You know, it's like true things
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  are getting worse. That's really the main thing
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  people harp on like, yeah You know the end times
• 17:15
  stuff's getting worse. Yeah, and for me, I'm
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  like, I don't think it's gotten worse I think
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  it's gotten like the same level of bad And it's
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  always it's like I feel actually like things
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  might have been worse before Yeah, but I think
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  like the only difference now is we're more aware
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  of the things that are happening outside of our
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  sphere. Well, we have a larger scope of what's
• 17:39
  going on in the whole Earth. Right. So, like,
• 17:41
  if something bad happened to us today, we also
• 17:44
  know about everything bad that happened to everybody
• 17:46
  everywhere else. Yes. Which is insane. Which
• 17:50
  is like, why do we have access to that? Well,
• 17:51
  and that's, like, a lot of discussions I've had
• 17:53
  recently with people is the concept that, like,
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  we are... We are, we're not politically globalist,
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  but we are a globalist society. Meaning that
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  we are not just simply concerned with the people
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  and the things directly in front of us. We're
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  fully aware of everything else going on. We can
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  choose not to know it. It doesn't mean we don't
• 18:20
  have access to it. So, you know what I mean?
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  So like, the idea that like, we have all of this
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  information and we are aware like if something
• 18:31
  extremely significant happens on the complete
• 18:34
  other side of the earth depending on how significant
• 18:38
  it is we're gonna find out about it pretty quick
• 18:40
  yeah i mean even even if it is only like minorly
• 18:46
  significant in the scope of like a lot of major
• 18:49
  things that could be happening yes there are
• 18:52
  niches of people that talk about those things
• 18:54
  too right Mean it's like there's like even if
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  it's like China for example, which is very far
• 19:00
  from here. Yeah And it's like, oh, yeah, you
• 19:03
  can fire both directions. It's true. Yeah Well,
• 19:06
  you can find people on YouTube. Yes, their whole
• 19:09
  channel their whole show is just talking about
• 19:11
  things happening in China Yeah, so it's like
• 19:13
  oh if I wanted to I could get very granular with
• 19:16
  nice There's a muff Well, that's a That's a sign
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  of the times, right? Things are getting worse.
• 19:28
  Moth and rust will destroy. They will. Right?
• 19:31
  Is the moth coming to destroy us now? I just
• 19:33
  think it's gonna happen right now. It's slowly
• 19:35
  destroying us. From dust we were made, from dust
• 19:38
  we shall return. That's right. Is this the moth
• 19:41
  that has come to kill us? No. It's the snail
• 19:45
  I'm looking out for. See you previous episode.
• 19:50
  Did we talk about that? Yeah. I think last episode.
• 19:53
  Did we actually? No, no, the one before that.
• 19:55
  Maybe. Yeah, who knows? It could be an episode.
• 19:58
  Go watch all of them and see what happens. Let
• 20:00
  us know which one it is. But yeah, so like globalist
• 20:04
  view, like the idea that we can kind of see and
• 20:07
  we're aware of everything going on. Right. Which
• 20:10
  gets to like the biblical concept that like...
• 20:14
  every knee will bow, every tongue confess, that
• 20:17
  the concept of all nations will understand and
• 20:20
  know all at the same time. We're finally in a
• 20:23
  time, technology -wise, where that's actually
• 20:25
  possible. Now, that doesn't mean that there's
• 20:29
  not a technology that Christ has in his second
• 20:32
  coming that could not have made that possible
• 20:35
  before now, which is an interesting idea. But.
• 20:41
  Yeah, that's interesting. But. we can perceive
• 20:45
  how it would happen now. So like, I mean, you
• 20:50
  even have like companies like Metta who is actively
• 20:56
  like giving cell phones to third world countries
• 20:59
  and they're preloaded with Facebook and, or I
• 21:02
  guess that's Metta, but it's hard to keep track.
• 21:05
  Gathering that data and that. connectivity to
• 21:09
  everybody yeah yeah yeah so that's that's an
• 21:12
  interesting concept but your question was about
• 21:14
  the thousand years yeah so looking like all this
• 21:17
  is happening right so like oh are we currently
• 21:20
  living in the thousand years right well like
• 21:24
  is this what it looks like so so the other element
• 21:26
  to that is like we like it's hard to even think
• 21:31
  about which one of the thousand years, or if
• 21:36
  we are living in the thousand years, from when
• 21:39
  did it begin? Are we at the end of the thousand
• 21:42
  years? Are we at the beginning of the thousand
• 21:43
  years? Well, I think we've established it started
• 21:45
  in the 60s. Has the thousand years happened yet?
• 21:49
  Is the thousand years a literal thousand years?
• 21:52
  Right. there's all this type of discussion. There's
• 21:55
  a lot of variables inside of there. 100%. Yeah.
• 21:57
  And a big part of that is the Bible has variables
• 22:00
  as well. Yeah. Depending on where you see thousand
• 22:04
  years. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's kind of interesting.
• 22:07
  So if you're like, what are you even talking
• 22:08
  about the thousand year reign of Christ? Yeah.
• 22:11
  Because like, like let's go, all right, throw
• 22:13
  out, throw out previous timeline, pre Genesis
• 22:17
  12. Again, we always have to go back to Genesis.
• 22:20
  That's where it all began, baby. Well, it's where
• 22:23
  the corrections began, right? That's the truth.
• 22:27
  But like Genesis 12, you have Abram. So if we
• 22:31
  go back to Abram, all right, from this point
• 22:33
  now back to Abram is at least several thousand
• 22:39
  years. Yes. Like at minimum, it's at least 3000
• 22:42
  to 4000 years. Yeah. So, but that's just like
• 22:47
  basic timeline of when we know the a nation of
• 22:52
  Israel was out like in and out of Babylon, Assyria
• 22:57
  came out of Egypt, went into the promised land,
• 22:59
  like timelines in first and second kings and
• 23:02
  chronicles and things like that. All of that
• 23:04
  stuff expands in such a way where we kind of
• 23:06
  know like from this point back to Abraham is
• 23:10
  at least three to 4 ,000 years. Everything that
• 23:12
  came before that, have fun. But it's one of those
• 23:16
  things where like we kind of know that. So if
• 23:19
  we're talking about a thousand year reign of
• 23:20
  Christ, well, from now or from this point back
• 23:25
  to Abram, you have like three or four thousand
• 23:28
  years. Yeah. So does that mean there's only a
• 23:30
  thousand years left or there's another thousand
• 23:32
  years on top or when does the thousand years
• 23:34
  begin? That's fair. Yeah. Or what even is the
• 23:37
  thousand years? Yeah, but all those there's an
• 23:42
  and let's not get to this yet. but there is a
• 23:46
  guy who believed that they were already in the
• 23:48
  thousand years. Yeah. And spoiler alert, he's
• 23:52
  been dead longer than a thousand years. Which
• 23:57
  is interesting. That is interesting. We'll get
• 24:00
  into that later. But yeah, and that's, and then,
• 24:02
  you know, just me being me, because this is how
• 24:04
  I like to ask things to you. Be you, Paul. Thanks.
• 24:07
  Thanks. It's like, okay, but like, what does
• 24:10
  it even look like? And maybe that's something
• 24:12
  we can't even talk about within the thousand
• 24:13
  years. Yeah. So it's like, oh, we're looking
• 24:15
  for the thousand year reign of Christ. And I
• 24:17
  think there's like maybe preconceived notions
• 24:19
  of like what that looks like. Yeah. But it's
• 24:22
  like, but is that what it actually looks like?
• 24:25
  Like, what are we looking forward to? Yeah. Same
• 24:27
  thing with the rapture. It's like, what are we
• 24:29
  actually waiting for? What are we looking forward
• 24:32
  to? Yeah. Yeah. All right. So yeah, sorry. No,
• 24:35
  no, no. I could keep running on that tangent,
• 24:37
  but let's yeah, let's do it. But first, let's
• 24:40
  read some scripture. Ah, okay. So because it's
• 24:44
  like, well what thousand years are you talking
• 24:47
  about? Where and when, what are we? So I'm gonna
• 24:49
  jump all the way to the end because, and I'll
• 24:52
  explain this in a minute, of why I'm going here
• 24:54
  first. Which I believe either last episode or
• 24:57
  the episode before we read from this same chapter.
• 25:00
  So at the moment, I'm gonna go in and open my
• 25:03
  scroll. So for those of you watching, here comes
• 25:06
  my scroll. And those of you listening, it's an
• 25:08
  actual scroll. It is. You can't see it though,
• 25:12
  it's behind the camera. Revelation 20 verse one,
• 25:16
  then I saw an angel coming down from heaven,
• 25:19
  holding in his hand the key to the bottomless
• 25:22
  pit and a great chain. And he sees the dragon,
• 25:25
  that ancient serpent who is the devil and Satan
• 25:29
  and bound him for a thousand years. Hey, there's.
• 25:32
  thousand years, and threw him into the pit and
• 25:36
  shut it and sealed it over him so that he might
• 25:39
  not deceive the nations any longer until the
• 25:43
  thousand years were ended. After that, he must
• 25:47
  be released for a little while. That's unfortunate.
• 25:50
  Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those
• 25:55
  to whom the authority to judge was committed.
• 25:58
  Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded
• 26:01
  for the testimony of Jesus and for the word of
• 26:04
  God." Those are the martyrs. and those who had
• 26:07
  not worshipped the beast or its image and had
• 26:10
  not received its mark on their foreheads or their
• 26:14
  hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ
• 26:18
  for a thousand years. The rest of the dead did
• 26:23
  not come to life until the thousand years were
• 26:25
  ended. This is the first resurrection. Blessed
• 26:29
  and holy is the one who shares in the first resurrection.
• 26:34
  Over such, the second death has no power, but
• 26:37
  they will be priests of God and of Christ, and
• 26:42
  they will reign with him for a thousand years.
• 26:46
  And when the thousand years are ended, Satan
• 26:49
  will be released from his prison and will come
• 26:51
  out to deceive the nations that are at the four
• 26:54
  corners of the earth." I'm gonna stop right there
• 26:58
  because it gets into some other stuff that I
• 27:00
  don't wanna mention. But yeah, there's... A thousand
• 27:06
  is said here in Revelation 20 seven times. Yeah.
• 27:11
  And it is mentioned in the New Testament nine
• 27:14
  times. So seven of the nine times that 1 ,000
• 27:19
  years is mentioned is in Revelation 20. Yeah.
• 27:22
  So now it doesn't mean that's the only time in
• 27:25
  the Bible that it's seven times and then nine
• 27:27
  times. There's other times in the Old Testament
• 27:29
  as well. And so my thought was like, well, If
• 27:33
  we're talking about a thousand year reign of
• 27:35
  Christ, what's the significance of a thousand
• 27:38
  years in scripture? Let's look at the Bible and
• 27:41
  go, where else does it talk about a thousand
• 27:43
  years? And I think it's interesting to discuss
• 27:46
  that because like in this particular chapter,
• 27:52
  the emphasis on a thousand years is pretty significant.
• 27:56
  It also doesn't say 1 ,000 years. It says a thousand
• 28:01
  years. And there's this concept here where a
• 28:08
  thousand years, okay, so you get this part, well,
• 28:12
  there's so many things in this. There's a lot,
• 28:14
  yeah. Because I think one of the things that's
• 28:17
  important that we talk about all the time is
• 28:18
  like when you're reading scripture, and again,
• 28:20
  this is not a Bible study on Revelation 20. Like
• 28:24
  what we're doing here is we're going, hey, consider
• 28:27
  this. Or we're simply just saying, hey, there
• 28:31
  are other people who have thought other things
• 28:33
  throughout the years and throughout the centuries,
• 28:36
  and let's consider what they talked about and
• 28:39
  discussed. Mainly so that the places where they
• 28:43
  exhaustively discussed something and just ended
• 28:47
  at the point of either heresy, or indifference
• 28:51
  or just like, oh, these are just two different
• 28:54
  viewpoints. We can't really decide which one
• 28:56
  I lean this way or I lean that way. That we don't,
• 28:59
  we can do the work ourselves, but they've already
• 29:02
  done the work. Yeah. Let's just use what they
• 29:04
  have. Yeah. So let's start from where they, you
• 29:07
  know what I mean? Cause I think like a lot of
• 29:08
  the things that we question or it's like, oh,
• 29:11
  what about that? It's like, yeah, throughout
• 29:13
  church history, people have debated these same
• 29:15
  things. I think that, I mean, I think that's
• 29:17
  even a fascinating thing, even in Jesus' day,
• 29:21
  when it's like, oh, that was a lot of the questions
• 29:24
  that the Pharisees asked him were debates that
• 29:28
  they'd been having for thousands of years. Yeah,
• 29:30
  exactly. I mean, the one on divorce is one where
• 29:32
  it's like, oh, this was like - You had to bring
• 29:33
  up divorce, Paul. I had to. You know I did. But
• 29:37
  it's like, that was a popular debate at that
• 29:38
  time that they'd been having for a very long
• 29:40
  time. For sure. And so they're like, oh, we know
• 29:44
  how to divide Jesus' people. Yeah. And so it's
• 29:46
  like, oh, yeah, it's like, We've been talking
• 29:48
  about these things for such a long time. Yeah.
• 29:52
  And so to think that we're the only ones like,
• 29:54
  oh, I just had a new thought. It's like maybe,
• 29:56
  but probably not. Yeah. Let's just go back and
• 29:58
  see what everyone else went through. Exactly.
• 30:00
  And we can diverge from there as well. Yeah,
• 30:03
  so there's a couple things that this brings to
• 30:05
  mind. So like in verse four, it says, then I
• 30:07
  saw thrones and seated on them or those to whom
• 30:11
  the authority to judge was committed. Also, I
• 30:13
  saw the souls of those who had been beheaded
• 30:15
  for the testimony of Jesus and for the word of
• 30:18
  God. Now that's specific because the testimony
• 30:22
  of Jesus. being beheaded for the testimony of
• 30:25
  Jesus and for the word of God, that's era specific.
• 30:29
  So that's specifically the martyrs of the church.
• 30:32
  It would have to be because otherwise it would
• 30:35
  be assuming those who testified about Jesus before
• 30:39
  the incarnation, right? Which there is prophecy
• 30:44
  of Jesus in the Old Testament, but the prophets
• 30:47
  in the Old Testament weren't beheaded. For the
• 30:50
  sake of their testimony about Jesus. Yeah, but
• 30:53
  instead they're they're witness of Yahweh Yes,
• 30:56
  which you could be like, well aren't they one
• 30:57
  of the same not exactly in the timeline, right?
• 31:00
  Right. So like Yahweh is not God incarnate. He's
• 31:03
  not the Savior come as the physical lamb Yeah,
• 31:07
  so this is a different conversation So these
• 31:10
  souls who were beheaded who appear in the first
• 31:13
  resurrection are the martyrs of the church They're
• 31:17
  the Saints. Yeah or they're the martyrs of the
• 31:21
  church. Just because we are also saints in regards
• 31:29
  to equipping the saints for the work of the ministry.
• 31:33
  Those who are Christ's followers are the saints
• 31:35
  collective. But different discussion. So that's
• 31:41
  who we're talking about. And then it says, and
• 31:43
  those who had not worshiped the beast or its
• 31:45
  image and had not received its mark on their
• 31:48
  foreheads or their hands. This imagery also calls
• 31:51
  back to like Daniel 7. It calls back to Daniel
• 31:54
  when the children of Israel are in Babylon, right?
• 31:59
  And they're having to worship pagan gods. And
• 32:02
  part of the worship of pagan gods is things like
• 32:06
  markings on your body that would represent those
• 32:09
  pagan gods. There's all these pieces in place,
• 32:12
  but then also there's discussion, modern scholars
• 32:16
  talking about referring to this passage in chapter
• 32:19
  20 about the Roman government itself. So there's
• 32:23
  a bunch of interpretations of what that looks
• 32:25
  like. But That just makes me so so we're we're
• 32:31
  talking about like there's imagery here That's
• 32:32
  pointing back to different places in the Bible,
• 32:35
  right? And then they came to life and reigned
• 32:37
  with Christ for a thousand years There's another
• 32:40
  place before this moment where those that were
• 32:44
  righteous dead came back to life and walked with
• 32:49
  Christ After his resurrection. Yes, and when
• 32:54
  I read this again, I thought about that and the
• 32:56
  idea that When Jesus dies on the cross, he rises
• 33:02
  again, and he teaches the disciples for 40 days
• 33:06
  before his ascension. And then there's witness,
• 33:08
  I believe, at the end of Mark, the book of Mark,
• 33:12
  where it talks about up to 500 people were seen,
• 33:17
  resurrected bodies walking, or the dead were
• 33:22
  walking among. So it's almost like - I think
• 33:24
  even Matthew brings that up. It's like a little
• 33:27
  half a verse, if not one just small verse. That's
• 33:31
  just like, yeah, and then all the dead, like
• 33:34
  a lot of dead came out of their tombs. But then.
• 33:37
  Right, yeah. And it's like, and then so you go
• 33:41
  like, well, is that the first resurrection that
• 33:43
  he's talking about here? Because if it is, then
• 33:46
  those individuals most likely are the righteous
• 33:49
  of the Old Testament that were in Abraham's bosom
• 33:52
  in the waiting place. or in paradise where Jesus
• 33:56
  was saying, all right, come on. Let's go upward
• 34:00
  now. You were down and you were waiting. Now
• 34:03
  let's go. Now let's bring you to heaven. Yes.
• 34:06
  That's kind of the glimpse that we get at the
• 34:07
  end of the synoptic gospels. Yeah. Yeah, I guess
• 34:12
  some in Matthew and then there's that additional
• 34:14
  added chapter that wasn't in some of the original
• 34:17
  manuscripts in the book of Mark. Yes. But. But
• 34:22
  yeah, so it made me think of that and it's like,
• 34:24
  well, but it says those that were beheaded. So
• 34:28
  for the sake of Jesus, so then it must have been
• 34:31
  those that were martyred after Jesus' resurrection.
• 34:35
  Which would put you in the destruction of Jerusalem
• 34:37
  in the temple. Correct. Yeah. Which points a
• 34:40
  little bit more towards guys like Nero. Right.
• 34:43
  Who had the spirit of the antichrist. Yes. Talked
• 34:47
  about in Revelation. Yeah, and also like the
• 34:51
  sign of taking on the sign of Caesar as a Roman
• 34:55
  citizen. And we've even talked about in a previous
• 34:58
  episode about even like the number and how it's
• 35:01
  like, well, that can be that was used back in
• 35:05
  that time as like a graffiti to refer to someone's
• 35:08
  name secretly. Well, and that's where like I
• 35:11
  was going to mention the beast. Yeah, because
• 35:13
  that's the thing is like the beast. A lot of
• 35:15
  people parallel to Nero. But then they also parallel
• 35:18
  to Babylon. Yeah, and Daniel. Well, I find it
• 35:23
  interesting the way it's written there. Mm -hmm,
• 35:25
  cuz it's like How does it how does it say it?
• 35:29
  About the beast. Yeah about the mark or that
• 35:32
  not the mark. Sorry the number Those who had
• 35:35
  not worshiped the oh, I we haven't gotten there
• 35:38
  yet. Okay. Well, I'll save that then for when
• 35:40
  we're there It is very interesting how it's phrased.
• 35:44
  Mm -hmm. And it's like, oh it kind of places
• 35:45
  it in a very Weird oh It's not like not in 20.
• 35:51
  Sorry. Okay, that's in a whole different section.
• 35:52
  Yeah. Yeah, but yeah anyway We don't need to
• 35:54
  go under that little tangent. No No, but I mean
• 35:57
  that's yeah that is a good point because that
• 36:00
  like that is one of those pieces where it's like
• 36:02
  well I wonder exactly what they were talking
• 36:05
  about because right because it talks about the
• 36:08
  beast. And one of the things I was interested
• 36:10
  in, maybe we should do a whole episode on beasts
• 36:12
  because I was thinking about like, all right,
• 36:14
  you have the beast here in Revelation and it's
• 36:19
  like, it's a monstrous beast. Right? And it's
• 36:24
  a specific like Greek wording that kind of talks
• 36:27
  about like a paralleled monster beast. But then
• 36:31
  you also have like in Genesis in the garden,
• 36:36
  you have the idea that the serpent was craftier
• 36:41
  than any other beast of the field. And then you
• 36:45
  kind of go like, okay, but that's animal beasts,
• 36:49
  if you interpret it that way, as far as what
• 36:52
  the original language is actually saying. or
• 36:55
  it's saying that this beast was monstrous. That's
• 36:59
  for a different episode. That's a whole different
• 37:01
  episode, but that's a great tease. But that is
• 37:04
  a discussion. Yeah, we need to do an episode
• 37:07
  on the beast. There's so many episodes to do.
• 37:10
  The beasts of the field. Of course. We're not
• 37:13
  planning on running out anytime soon. This is
• 37:14
  not a limited series. This is a weekly podcast.
• 37:16
  It's true. And because every time we talk, we're
• 37:19
  like, oh, that's seven more episodes in there.
• 37:21
  100%. Yeah. Yeah, and so as you go through this,
• 37:25
  there is that element of, all right, so that's
• 37:28
  all these parallels that I'm looking at. They
• 37:29
  came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand
• 37:32
  years. The rest of the dead did not come to life
• 37:35
  until the thousand years were ended. So what
• 37:37
  that means is, what it's saying is that the martyrs
• 37:42
  that were beheaded for the sake of Jesus, the
• 37:44
  early church martyrs, they came back to life
• 37:47
  and they reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
• 37:52
  And those who weren't them, the martyrs of the
• 37:56
  church, the early church, they remained dead
• 38:00
  until the thousand years was over. Right? So
• 38:05
  right now it's not talking about anyone that's
• 38:07
  currently alive. Yes. It's only talking about
• 38:10
  the dead before us. Right? Yeah, and it says,
• 38:15
  this is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy
• 38:17
  is the one who shares. In the first resurrection,
• 38:19
  over such the second death has no power. But
• 38:23
  they will be priests of God and of Christ, and
• 38:26
  they will reign with him for a thousand years.
• 38:30
  So, you don't have to die a third time in the
• 38:34
  second death. You've already done it twice. Yeah,
• 38:37
  so there's a first death and then a second death
• 38:39
  that are not our death on the earth and then
• 38:42
  new life. but instead a time of Christ's reign
• 38:46
  at the completion of all things and the judgment
• 38:50
  and then the recreation or new creation. Well,
• 38:56
  it's interesting to even with that the phrase
• 38:58
  life, it's like, well, is it referring to like
• 39:01
  human life as far as like us on earth breathing?
• 39:05
  Right. Or is it talking about a resurrected life?
• 39:08
  Sure. Yeah, I mean, Yeah, most likely it's talking
• 39:14
  about, because it describes it as the first resurrection.
• 39:20
  Yeah. So it would be resurrection life. Yeah.
• 39:22
  It would be resurrected bodies with Christ. That
• 39:23
  seems to be what it would point to. Yes. So they
• 39:26
  would be resurrected with him in the way that
• 39:28
  he was resurrected. Yeah. But the New Testament
• 39:33
  can't describe or can't pinpoint exactly where
• 39:36
  it is because I don't remember exactly, calls
• 39:39
  Jesus the first. the first born among the dead.
• 39:42
  Yes. So I think that's first Corinthians. I believe
• 39:45
  so. It's definitely Pauline. Yeah. Definitely.
• 39:49
  You know, Paul's sister, Pauline. Pauline. That's
• 39:54
  a different episode. Weird tease. Do we all have
• 40:03
  a sister? That's the title of our Pauline theology
• 40:08
  episode. And then we just don't address it. Okay,
• 40:13
  so anyway, so then a thousand years. So I mentioned
• 40:17
  before that like in the New Testament, it's only
• 40:20
  mentioned a couple other times. But Revelation
• 40:22
  20 mentions it seven times. So one of the things
• 40:27
  that's interesting as you go through that, is
• 40:31
  in that study, Revelation 20, the Greek word,
• 40:37
  chilea, a thousand, it's the base for the English
• 40:41
  term chileast, an early name for premillennialism
• 40:46
  from chileism. In the New Testament, it only
• 40:50
  appears in Revelation 20 and 2 Peter 3, 8. Yeah.
• 40:54
  I think it's only like two places used in the
• 40:56
  Old Testament. So, right. Because I think we
• 41:00
  talked about that in a previous episode, briefly.
• 41:04
  Yeah, well, and the main place it's used is Daniel.
• 41:08
  It uses a thousand years, but it saturates Revelation's
• 41:13
  imagery. So it's all over the imagery of the
• 41:17
  Book of Revelation, but it's only mentioned a
• 41:20
  couple of times in Daniel, and it's mentioned
• 41:22
  slightly different in Daniel. Yeah, because there's
• 41:28
  a lot of symbolic numbers, but the seven times
• 41:34
  in the New Testament is in, sorry, six times
• 41:38
  in Revelation 20, once in 1 Peter 3, 8. It's
• 41:42
  a seven times total. Yes. In the New Testament.
• 41:46
  Sorry, 2 Peter 3, 8. And I thought it was interesting
• 41:50
  to go into 2 Peter 3, 8. 2 Peter is a wild book.
• 41:55
  Second Peter is a wild book. Because, and I want
• 41:59
  to like jump backwards through the Bible and
• 42:03
  read different passages where these are mentioned.
• 42:06
  So we're gonna go to Second Peter 3, 8. But then
• 42:11
  the other one that it's mentioned is, well, we'll
• 42:14
  get to that in a second. So let me pull up my
• 42:17
  scroll. Scroll time! We're gonna start in uh...
• 42:23
  Scroll time with Stephen and Paul. I don't know
• 42:27
  why I passed this song. Well, you're famously
• 42:29
  good at singing the wrong song. For the wrong
• 42:32
  moment. For the wrong moment. I love it. It's
• 42:36
  part of my charm. A little spice in life. Second
• 42:40
  Peter 3. Starting in verse one says, Dear friends,
• 42:43
  this is now my second letter to you. I have written
• 42:46
  both of them as reminders to stimulate you to
• 42:50
  wholesome thinking. I want you to recall the
• 42:53
  words spoken in the past by the holy prophets
• 42:55
  and the command given by our Lord and Savior
• 42:59
  through your apostles. Above all, you must understand
• 43:03
  that in the last days, scoffers will come scoffing
• 43:08
  and following their own evil desires. They will
• 43:11
  say, where is this coming? He promised. Ever
• 43:15
  since our ancestors died, everything goes on
• 43:18
  as it has since the beginning of creation. But
• 43:21
  they deliberately forget that long ago, by God's
• 43:25
  word, the heavens came into being and the earth
• 43:28
  was formed out of water and by water. By these
• 43:32
  waters also the world of that time was deluged
• 43:36
  and destroyed. What does that sound like? That
• 43:39
  sounds like the days of Noah. That one was right.
• 43:45
  Which Jesus says, it'll be like the days of Noah.
• 43:48
  Yeah. And in 2 Peter 3, that's where we are.
• 43:55
  The world of that time was deluged and destroyed.
• 43:58
  By the same word, the present heavens and earth
• 44:01
  are reserved for fire, being kept for the day
• 44:05
  of judgment and destruction of the ungodly. Verse
• 44:08
  eight. But do not forget this one thing, dear
• 44:11
  friends. With the Lord, a day is like a thousand
• 44:14
  years, and a thousand years are like a day. The
• 44:18
  Lord is not slow in keeping His promise, as some
• 44:21
  understand slowness. Instead, He is patient with
• 44:24
  you. not wanting you, not wanting anyone to perish,
• 44:28
  but everyone to come to repentance. But the day
• 44:32
  of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens
• 44:35
  will disappear with a roar. The elements will
• 44:37
  be destroyed by fire and the earth and everything
• 44:40
  done in it will be laid bare." So, we get this
• 44:46
  before Revelation, we get this passage in 2 Peter,
• 44:52
  where It's basically the imagery of Revelation
• 44:56
  20. It's this foretelling looking to and going,
• 45:00
  hey, there is this, so what does that mean? It
• 45:02
  means that even the prophecy that John is giving
• 45:05
  as what is to come and what will be is not new.
• 45:11
  It's not a new prophetic moment. It's something
• 45:15
  that's been echoed. And 2 Peter here even says
• 45:18
  it's been echoed from the beginning when the
• 45:21
  waters were created by the waters. And then even
• 45:26
  those waters washed out the corruption of the
• 45:31
  world once before. And this time it won't be
• 45:36
  water that purifies the earth, it'll be fire.
• 45:40
  And so you get this imagery there that's interesting,
• 45:43
  because God said I'm not gonna flood the earth
• 45:44
  again. He didn't say I'm not gonna rain fire
• 45:48
  down from heaven again. He's like, I got another
• 45:51
  element. But I got another element. Honda? But
• 46:00
  the interesting thing about this is he mentions
• 46:03
  a thousand years. And can I also say really quick?
• 46:06
  Yes, please. What's interesting about this, because
• 46:09
  you brought up the this echoing. Yes. And so
• 46:12
  for me, it's kind of like, all right, where does
• 46:13
  that come from? Right. I think that's what's
• 46:16
  so interesting is because we do see these echoes
• 46:19
  throughout the Old Testament. Even Jesus himself
• 46:22
  tells us a lot. Right. It's like there's a lot
• 46:24
  of concrete things that he tells us, like, OK,
• 46:28
  this is like what's going to happen. Yes, exactly.
• 46:31
  As far as he spends a lot of time talking more
• 46:33
  of like after all that happens, this is what
• 46:36
  eternity is going to look like. Right. But what's
• 46:40
  also interesting, and Second Peter is in this
• 46:43
  category, kind of notorious for referencing a
• 46:46
  lot of Enochian thoughts. OK. And so it's interesting
• 46:50
  because even when it comes to this, there's a
• 46:51
  lot of end times prophecy inside of Enoch. Yes.
• 46:56
  And so it doesn't surprise me that we see these
• 46:58
  echoes continue on. Because he's like, oh, the
• 47:01
  story's kind of been told in bits and pieces
• 47:04
  for us to get an idea of, like, this is what
• 47:07
  the Lord plans to do. Yeah, and he even mentions
• 47:10
  here those mocking and scoffing. Saying, where
• 47:14
  is this coming, he promised. Which is really
• 47:17
  funny because that's a lot, like, I hear that
• 47:20
  all the time. It's like, well, is Jesus really
• 47:23
  even coming back? It's like, what? Like, is that
• 47:26
  actually gonna happen? Like, every generation
• 47:28
  says he's coming back now. And look, every generation
• 47:30
  has died. Yeah. So, the where is your God? That's
• 47:34
  right. You know what I mean? And it's not any
• 47:37
  different than the days of Noah. Yeah. Where
• 47:41
  Noah's like, guys, it's going to rain and flood
• 47:44
  the earth. And they're like, no, it's never rained
• 47:47
  before. What are you even talking about? What
• 47:48
  are you on about? And they're scoffing and mocking
• 47:52
  him. That's right. And they were saying, well,
• 47:55
  where's your God? You know, where's the God that's
• 47:57
  going to bring the rain? Yeah. He's like, guys,
• 48:00
  you need to repent and turn and get on the boat.
• 48:04
  Yeah. You know what I mean? And so it's kind
• 48:06
  of maybe this is out of ignorance to say this,
• 48:11
  but it is it is the one thing to think about.
• 48:13
  It's like, OK, so Noah built a pretty big ark.
• 48:16
  He did. It's pretty massive. Yeah. But 120 years
• 48:19
  to build it. Right. I think he took some rest
• 48:22
  days. You know what I mean? It's like, there's
• 48:26
  no way it took that much time to actually build
• 48:28
  it, when it's like, maybe five years he could
• 48:31
  have built that thing. Well, I mean, the Levitical
• 48:33
  law hadn't been set in place yet, Paul. Yeah,
• 48:35
  that's true. So, uh, the Sabbath had not been
• 48:38
  made for the man yet. But do you know what I
• 48:43
  mean? But arguably it was created in creation,
• 48:46
  it was built into creation. It was. But yeah,
• 48:49
  I mean you're right. But like looking at that
• 48:51
  it's like, okay there's, especially if he had
• 48:53
  his sons as helpers. But how old was Noah when
• 48:55
  he died? Like 300? He was a pretty old guy. So
• 48:58
  like... He's he's moving slow, you know a day
• 49:01
  is not a thousand years or a thousand years on
• 49:03
  a day to know us but Maybe like six months. It
• 49:07
  does take like ten minutes for him to get anything
• 49:09
  but so I guess the the thought with that is We
• 49:14
  should be slow and diligent in our work. Well,
• 49:16
  yeah very slow apparently But it's the idea of
• 49:21
  like it probably didn't take him that long to
• 49:24
  actually build the arc that's an interesting
• 49:26
  thought Like maybe that's maybe that's totally
• 49:28
  ignorant for me to say but let me just follow
• 49:31
  this train of thought anyway With that being
• 49:33
  said I mean it's like it may not have taken him
• 49:36
  that long But God said I'm gonna give everyone
• 49:39
  this amount of time sure as far as like you have
• 49:42
  this much time to repent. Yeah And that's what
• 49:46
  second Peter's talking that's echoing that it's
• 49:48
  that same thought where it's like hey God isn't
• 49:50
  coming back yet for your sake. Yes God didn't
• 49:53
  flood the earth yet because of your sake. Yeah
• 49:56
  He's like, okay, I'm gonna do this. But I'm giving
• 49:59
  you time to get yourself right with me. A hundred
• 50:02
  percent. And he's like, yeah, a day is like a
• 50:04
  thousand years and a thousand years like a day.
• 50:05
  Sorry, a thousand percent. One thousand? No,
• 50:09
  a thousand. Oh, sorry, a thousand. A thousand.
• 50:13
  A thousand. It's like, yeah, he's not back yet,
• 50:16
  for your sake. Right. For our sake. He's not
• 50:19
  slow to return. That's right. But he's intentionally
• 50:23
  giving us... as much time as we possibly can,
• 50:26
  and then at the right moment, he's gonna shut
• 50:28
  the door. Yeah, and that echoes back to my boy
• 50:30
  Amos. It's that same thing where it's like -
• 50:33
  Wait, hold on to that, because you could use
• 50:35
  that later. Okay. Because you're setting me up.
• 50:37
  Okay. Hold on to Amos. It's not Amos time yet.
• 50:42
  Too soon? I'll tell you when. Paul, it's Amos
• 50:44
  time. It's Amos time! We need a clock. It's Amos
• 50:48
  the clock! We should do that That would be awesome.
• 50:53
  That's a new t -shirt But yeah, I mean you're
• 50:56
  you're echoing into exactly what I'm talking
• 50:58
  about here because when when in this passage
• 51:00
  when it says that By same word the present heavens
• 51:04
  and earth are reserved for fire being kept for
• 51:06
  the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly
• 51:08
  It's funny because he sets all of that up. Where
• 51:11
  is your God? What like the people mocking him
• 51:13
  and he's like look God is God is Present and
• 51:18
  the reason he hasn't come yet is for your sake.
• 51:21
  Yeah, you foolish one. Yeah, basically what he's
• 51:24
  saying And just like the days of Noah, which
• 51:27
  is something that Jesus references back to, and
• 51:30
  then that's when you get to this passage, but
• 51:31
  do not forget this one thing, dear friends. With
• 51:34
  the Lord, a day is like a thousand years, and
• 51:36
  a thousand years are like a day. The Lord is
• 51:39
  not slow in keeping His promise, as some understand
• 51:41
  slowness. Instead, He is patient with you, not
• 51:44
  wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come
• 51:47
  to repentance. So does God set some aside for
• 51:51
  damnation? Well, according to 2 Peter, No, no,
• 51:57
  but he's giving everyone a chance again different
• 52:00
  podcast. That's it. Yeah, that's a different
• 52:01
  one But so then we go like, all right, cool.
• 52:05
  So Revelation 20, 1 ,000 years, 1 ,000 years,
• 52:08
  1 ,000 years, 1 ,000 years. It's like all of
• 52:10
  this stuff is 1 ,000 years. You go back and you
• 52:13
  go, all right, where's the place before that
• 52:15
  that it says 1 ,000 years? 2 Peter 3 ,8. OK,
• 52:19
  well, 2 Peter 3 ,8 is referencing 1 ,000 years
• 52:22
  in context of speaking forward to Revelation.
• 52:26
  So it's still talking about going back to the
• 52:29
  flood, the days of Noah. it's referencing what
• 52:32
  will come and the Lord's return, the second coming,
• 52:35
  which is what Revelation 20 is about. And then,
• 52:39
  so then you're going, all right, well, we're
• 52:40
  in context. These two passages are talking about
• 52:43
  the same thing. They both reference a thousand
• 52:46
  years. I'm not, what I'm about to say is not
• 52:49
  saying that this explains Revelation 20. I'm
• 52:52
  just saying consider this. Because, What 2 Peter
• 52:58
  is intentionally referencing in its exact phrasing
• 53:01
  is Psalm 90. Yes. In Psalm 90, let me get out
• 53:06
  my scroll. This one's a little bit older. Scroll
• 53:08
  time. In Psalm 90, it is a prayer of Moses, the
• 53:13
  man of God. We all know who Moses is. The most
• 53:16
  humble man. The man who split the waters with
• 53:19
  his staff. Coming in at 5 foot 9. He wasn't that
• 53:25
  tall. At 5 foot 3. At best, yeah. Long beard.
• 53:34
  Stuttering. Staff, not great with words. Not
• 53:37
  great with words, but his brother, however. But
• 53:40
  a man of God. Man of God even though he disobeyed
• 53:45
  at the last second and lost his chance the promised
• 53:47
  land But he's still very humble and here he is
• 53:51
  but Have you can you say this about yourself
• 53:55
  that uh? The Archangel Michael fought over where
• 53:58
  your bones were going to land. I can't silence
• 54:02
  Not that I'm aware of like wait. What are you
• 54:06
  even talking about? Hey Michael? What's the dealio?
• 54:12
  Discuss my bones, man. Where are they going?
• 54:16
  Where are they going? He's like, hey, I got too
• 54:18
  many bones to worry about. OK, so scroll. Psalm
• 54:23
  90. Psalm 90 verse 1 says, Lord you have been
• 54:27
  our dwelling place in all generations before
• 54:30
  the mountains were brought forth or ever you
• 54:33
  had formed the earth and the world from everlasting
• 54:36
  to everlasting you are God. So what does that
• 54:40
  point to? Creation, Genesis 1. Yes. This sounds
• 54:42
  like 2nd Peter. This sounds like Revelation 20.
• 54:46
  Verse 3, you return man to dust and say, return,
• 54:51
  O children of man, for a thousand years in your
• 54:55
  sight are but as yesterday when it is past or
• 54:59
  as a watch in the night. You sweep them away
• 55:02
  as with a flood. They are like a dream, like
• 55:06
  grass that is renewed in the morning. In the
• 55:08
  morning it flourishes and is renewed. In the
• 55:12
  evening it fades and withers. So this imagery
• 55:16
  that Moses is expressing here is pointing back
• 55:20
  to creation. And it's he's basically saying that
• 55:24
  they're from dust. We were made from dust. We
• 55:28
  will return. Yeah. And. when all of that happens,
• 55:32
  when the completion of time has happened, when
• 55:35
  what needs to happen on the earth has happened,
• 55:39
  that thousand years, the concept will be as if
• 55:44
  it was a day, as if it were yesterday, not. in
• 55:48
  the 24 hour span, but it will go by quickly that
• 55:51
  it will feel like it was just yesterday. That
• 55:54
  on the other side of it, in the completion of
• 55:57
  all things, it will feel like it was just yesterday.
• 56:01
  So that's this idea that you get in Psalms that's
• 56:05
  echoed in 2nd Peter. And then it's mentioned
• 56:07
  a bunch of times in Revelation 20. Now, does
• 56:10
  that mean that the... that the concept carries
• 56:13
  over? Not necessarily, because it's slightly
• 56:16
  different words when it comes to a thousand years.
• 56:19
  When it comes to the Hebrew in Psalms, and then
• 56:23
  the Greek in 2 Peter, and then the Greek again
• 56:26
  in Revelation. They're slightly different words
• 56:29
  when it comes to a thousand years. but considering
• 56:32
  concepts. So considering the concept, and this
• 56:36
  is where the discussion around what is the thousand
• 56:39
  years? When will Christ reign? What does tribulation
• 56:42
  look like? When is the first resurrection, the
• 56:46
  second death? When are all of these things going
• 56:49
  to take place? Because the thousand years, when
• 56:52
  it's mentioned everywhere else in the Bible,
• 56:55
  it's a concept of completion of time. When the
• 56:58
  Lord has finished His work. That's what the concept
• 57:01
  means. When the Lord has completed His work,
• 57:05
  when it is the completion of time, the door will
• 57:09
  be shut. When it is the completion of time, then
• 57:13
  the second death will happen. Then there will
• 57:17
  be a second resurrection. Then the fire will
• 57:22
  rain down on the earth and purify it. and then
• 57:26
  the new heavens and the earth will be completed.
• 57:29
  It will be the end of the age as Jesus talks
• 57:31
  about. So the thousand years, a thousand years
• 57:35
  is significant in that way, is that it's used
• 57:38
  often as like an idiom, that it's this concept
• 57:43
  of the completion of time. Yeah, so that's essentially
• 57:48
  what a thousand years is. And when we get into
• 57:52
  like, all right, well, what did people, think
• 57:55
  about the thousand years. That's kind of where
• 57:57
  my mind went. It's like, all right, what do some
• 57:59
  early church boys think? Yeah, so then that's
• 58:01
  the question. So then if we read Revelation,
• 58:04
  Revelation 20, then we kind of go like, well,
• 58:08
  then what is the thousand years? When does it
• 58:10
  happen? Are we currently in it or are we not?
• 58:14
  Or does it happen? Right. Or does it literally
• 58:17
  happen? Or is it just saying, the same thing
• 58:20
  that 2nd Peter and Psalm 90 are saying, which
• 58:23
  is also an echo of Daniel, which is the sentiment
• 58:28
  of completion of time, a time... plus a time,
• 58:31
  plus half a time. Yeah. When you get into Daniel's
• 58:34
  language and there's this completion of prophetic
• 58:38
  timelines that it's what the Lord's work is,
• 58:42
  is complete in this moment. And when it's complete,
• 58:45
  it means that the door is shut and everyone and
• 58:48
  this may be where I can lean a little bit towards
• 58:52
  the Calvinist thought is that at the time where
• 58:56
  Jesus knows no more are going to repent. is the
• 59:01
  moment where the door shuts. And it's less of
• 59:05
  a determined moment and more of a foreseen or
• 59:10
  foreknowledge of that moment. So that kind of
• 59:15
  rubs in that space. That's interesting. I haven't
• 59:17
  heard that one yet. That's interesting. Well,
• 59:19
  it's just, if it is in the completion of his
• 59:23
  timing, then according to the grace of God and
• 59:27
  the expression here in second, Second Peter and
• 59:30
  then even in Revelation That is what it seems
• 59:34
  like is that God is is waiting for our sake yeah
• 59:37
  for everybody to have a chance to repent and
• 59:41
  It just seems to me. That's a personal opinion
• 59:43
  that yeah, it seems to me that like he's waiting
• 59:46
  for that teetering moment. We're like All right
• 59:50
  Everyone's on that's gonna get on Let's shut
• 59:53
  the door. Yeah, which is what happens with Noah
• 59:55
  in the ark All right, everyone's on that's going
• 59:57
  to get on. So God shuts the door of the ark.
• 1:00:01
  Yeah. Right. Yeah. No, it makes sense. It's interesting
• 1:00:04
  because I think I like what that moment is. I
• 1:00:09
  think I take that a different direction. Sure.
• 1:00:11
  And so for me and some of this comes from like
• 1:00:15
  old or the concept I'm taking from. old, like,
• 1:00:20
  Native American prophecy as well. Okay. So not
• 1:00:27
  Hebrew. Not Hebrew. Old Native American prophecy.
• 1:00:30
  Well, so it's interesting. I like that. I can't
• 1:00:32
  remember what tribe it was, but there's a story
• 1:00:35
  that they tell and I'm not going to do it perfectly
• 1:00:37
  because it's been a year since I've read it.
• 1:00:39
  You're the myth guy. But I'm going to try my
• 1:00:41
  very best here. So there is in this tribe. the
• 1:00:48
  people had gotten sick. And the medicine man's
• 1:00:53
  trying his best to like, let me try to heal these
• 1:00:56
  people, but it's not working. And he's still
• 1:00:58
  doing what he can, but the people have been sick
• 1:01:01
  for a long time. And so the chief, what he does,
• 1:01:03
  he goes up on top of a high mountain and he starts
• 1:01:06
  to pray to the Lord and he says, God, you are
• 1:01:10
  good, you are just, you are faithful. And he
• 1:01:12
  starts praying these prayers and naming qualities
• 1:01:15
  of who God is. And he's like, just heal my people,
• 1:01:19
  make them better. And through that, because this
• 1:01:23
  happens for several days over and over, he's
• 1:01:25
  fasting and praying on top of this mountain to
• 1:01:27
  the Lord. And then through that, he's given a
• 1:01:32
  word where he sees in the clouds a window open
• 1:01:35
  up and he sees a man on a cross. And he hears
• 1:01:39
  a voice from heaven that tells him, this is Jesus,
• 1:01:42
  this is my son. um and right now you just have
• 1:01:46
  a glimpse of the like the full truth but in time
• 1:01:52
  there will be people that come over dressed as
• 1:01:55
  turtles that will bring you the fullness of the
• 1:01:57
  gospel and the story of who i am oh and so this
• 1:02:00
  was something they've they've held on to for
• 1:02:02
  hundreds if not thousands of years oh wow okay
• 1:02:05
  um which it was uh revealed through the conquistadors
• 1:02:10
  that came over got it but then there was a downside
• 1:02:13
  to that where darkness can take its turn. Yes.
• 1:02:17
  And we see how history's played that out. Oh,
• 1:02:20
  because they're helmets. Yes. And the way that
• 1:02:23
  they're, like, their breastplates and everything
• 1:02:24
  are shaped. It's like, oh, it does look like
• 1:02:26
  turtles. It's hilarious the idea that Yahweh
• 1:02:29
  splits the sky and says, there are going to be
• 1:02:32
  little men that look like turtles. The Teenage
• 1:02:34
  Mutant Ninja Turtles are coming. And they've
• 1:02:36
  got books. I wonder if they left out that he
• 1:02:47
  was also like, and fair warning, it's not gonna
• 1:02:49
  be great. Don't grab the swords by the blades.
• 1:02:54
  Hide the yellow stuff. It's unfortunate. It is.
• 1:02:59
  But with that, it's like, oh, but what did Western
• 1:03:04
  civilization bring? It's like, well, we brought
• 1:03:06
  the Bible. Yeah. And that was what was prophesied.
• 1:03:10
  And so for me, I guess - But that's a direct
• 1:03:12
  revelation. It is. Which is pretty cool. And
• 1:03:14
  so I kind of like take that concept and apply
• 1:03:17
  it to like, oh, well, everyone needs to have
• 1:03:21
  the word. And maybe that's like an analytical
• 1:03:24
  like, oh, this needs to happen. And then this,
• 1:03:26
  because we don't know. Right. But I think it's
• 1:03:29
  one of those where, like, what is God waiting
• 1:03:33
  for? What is Jesus waiting for? Sure. It's like
• 1:03:36
  maybe he's waiting for the fullness of the word
• 1:03:39
  to reach everybody. Right. Or every tribe, every
• 1:03:43
  nation. Yeah. It's like that could be it. And
• 1:03:46
  to your point, it's like maybe that's the point
• 1:03:48
  when it's like, OK, everyone that could or that
• 1:03:52
  will will. Yeah. Oh, yeah, exactly. And that
• 1:03:56
  doesn't mean and I think that's the other cool
• 1:03:58
  part of it that it reveals is the idea of like
• 1:04:01
  no man's without excuse. So it's like, okay,
• 1:04:03
  even when they didn't have any of these stories,
• 1:04:07
  Yahweh still spoke to somebody and was like,
• 1:04:09
  hey, this is who I am. It's cool on many levels.
• 1:04:13
  I think my question with that, my first question
• 1:04:15
  with that would be, did Yahweh extend grace to
• 1:04:20
  this tribe until they received the gospel? Which
• 1:04:23
  would be an interesting idea. That he would break
• 1:04:26
  through the clouds and go, hey, salvation is
• 1:04:28
  coming, but it will be multiple generations away,
• 1:04:31
  so you'll actually die before you ever get it.
• 1:04:33
  Which did happen. Right. Because it was a long
• 1:04:35
  time. And that's where it's like, in some ways
• 1:04:36
  it feels kind of almost Old Testament grace.
• 1:04:40
  Oh, sure. Where it's like, okay, you don't have
• 1:04:42
  the full story of the gospel, but you have a
• 1:04:45
  piece of it. And so trust in the piece of it.
• 1:04:49
  Depending on when that was, it hadn't happened
• 1:04:50
  yet. That's possible. it is possible yeah and
• 1:04:53
  i actually don't know the timeline to say that
• 1:04:55
  yeah um but it's like in some ways it could be
• 1:04:58
  this yeah kind of like old testament grace or
• 1:05:00
  it could have been the moment it happened that
• 1:05:03
  would be wild it could have been an image of
• 1:05:05
  what was literally happening in that would be
• 1:05:07
  actually kind of crazy that would be kind of
• 1:05:09
  that would be awesome that would be cool um yeah
• 1:05:12
  so there's a little tangent but it's i think
• 1:05:14
  it applies no but yeah so so in the original
• 1:05:17
  question of like well what about are we in the
• 1:05:20
  actual thousand years? Are we already in the
• 1:05:22
  thousand years of Christ? I mean, the short answer
• 1:05:28
  for me is, I don't know. But we can go back and
• 1:05:33
  go, all right, well, what did everybody else
• 1:05:35
  think? And I think that that's interesting. And
• 1:05:38
  you started to bring up this idea, but let me
• 1:05:40
  jump before that, before you set up. what you
• 1:05:43
  were gonna interject before. To set that up.
• 1:05:47
  Well, so early on when you get that, when you
• 1:05:50
  get this concept, the Chilean, or Chilean, however
• 1:05:57
  that - Pre -millennial. Yeah, pre -millennial.
• 1:06:00
  We'll use the easy word. You get this idea that,
• 1:06:03
  this idea of, in the early church, millenarianism.
• 1:06:07
  and millenarianism from millennium, a thousand
• 1:06:11
  years, is the belief that history will culminate
• 1:06:13
  in a future golden age of peace, justice, and
• 1:06:17
  divine rule, often lasting 1 ,000 years. It's
• 1:06:21
  typically apocalyptic in tone. Evil will be overthrown,
• 1:06:25
  the faithful vindicated, and a new order established.
• 1:06:28
  It shows up in many cultures and religions, not
• 1:06:31
  just Christianity. In Jewish apocalypticism,
• 1:06:35
  Some Islamic traditions and even secular revolutionary
• 1:06:39
  movements such as Marxism is sometimes described
• 1:06:43
  as secular millenarian, which is kind of interesting.
• 1:06:48
  Because if you think about like, even if you
• 1:06:50
  think about Marxism and then the Nazi reign,
• 1:06:53
  there were elements of the thousand year reign
• 1:06:56
  that slid into those leaders. that like they
• 1:07:02
  were Christ on the earth and this was the reign
• 1:07:04
  of Christ that has been used by dictators over
• 1:07:10
  the years. That's fascinating. It is interesting
• 1:07:12
  to think about. And then some of the Jewish roots
• 1:07:14
  of that, the Second Temple Judaism had strands
• 1:07:16
  of millenarian hope, looking for a messianic
• 1:07:20
  age when God would decisively defeat evil and
• 1:07:23
  establish his kingdom. Daniel seven, one Enoch
• 1:07:27
  and the Dead Sea Scrolls. So these expectations
• 1:07:31
  influence early Christian readings of prophecy.
• 1:07:33
  So what does that look like? Second temple Judaism
• 1:07:35
  is you're getting to the time of the reestablishment
• 1:07:39
  of the temple as prophesied in the Old Testament
• 1:07:42
  after the destruction of Solomon's temple and
• 1:07:46
  the exile. And then pre the time of Jesus leading
• 1:07:51
  up to that time that they were looking for God
• 1:07:55
  to come and decisively defeat evil and establish
• 1:07:58
  his kingdom, which is what Jesus does, but they're
• 1:08:01
  looking at it in a literal thousand year reign.
• 1:08:04
  They're looking at it in a literal reign of the
• 1:08:08
  Messiah, that the Messiah was gonna come and
• 1:08:12
  literally destroy physical evil instead of take
• 1:08:17
  back Yahweh's portion and eliminate spiritual
• 1:08:21
  evil, which is what Jesus does. And they don't
• 1:08:25
  see it that way, right? Which is so interesting
• 1:08:28
  because it's like that is echoed throughout even
• 1:08:31
  Colossians. Yeah. And it's like when he talks
• 1:08:34
  about it, it's like, yeah, he put them to shame,
• 1:08:35
  to open shame. Yes. The darkness. Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:08:39
  Yeah, it just turns out that some of the Jewish
• 1:08:42
  leaders were also ones put to shame. Yes. Which
• 1:08:46
  is unfortunate. Sorry, guys. It's true. It happens.
• 1:08:50
  It happens to the best of us. And then Christian
• 1:08:53
  millenarianism. Early Christians reading Revelation
• 1:08:57
  20, one through six, which is what we just read,
• 1:08:59
  expected Christ to return soon, overthrow the
• 1:09:02
  wicked, and literally reign on earth for 1 ,000
• 1:09:04
  years. This view is often called Chileism, or
• 1:09:10
  thousand. I know I'm saying it wrong. It was
• 1:09:15
  popular in the second century. Papias of Areopolis,
• 1:09:22
  Justin Martyr. and Aranius all embraced a literal
• 1:09:27
  millennium. They envisioned a renewed earth abundance
• 1:09:30
  and even Jerusalem as the center of Christ's
• 1:09:33
  reign. And then in the fourth and fifth century,
• 1:09:38
  we get the guy that just ruined everything. Our
• 1:09:41
  boy. Are you talking about our boy Augustine?
• 1:09:45
  Yeah. He came in like a wrecking ball. Imagine
• 1:09:53
  that, just like Gustin swinging in, stealing
• 1:09:56
  pears as he's going. I confess. My name is Augustin
• 1:10:07
  and these are my confessions. I mean, he doesn't
• 1:10:11
  ruin everything. In fact, he establishes a different
• 1:10:13
  view of the thousand years that is still, I would
• 1:10:17
  say, widely held. I mean, by all of his contemporaries,
• 1:10:21
  they still hold to the premillennial view, largely.
• 1:10:25
  Yes, which would be, technically, I did have
• 1:10:32
  a question within a question for you, Paul. Ooh.
• 1:10:36
  So when we get to Augustine, my question is,
• 1:10:38
  was Augustine just an emo kid? Yes. He's one
• 1:10:48
  of us. He's one of us. He's an ah millennial.
• 1:10:53
  Oh He's Everyone's like, what are you trying
• 1:11:00
  to say? You guys are forcing that ah millennial.
• 1:11:02
  Ah, so ah millennialism is what I what is what
• 1:11:07
  is Known now to be the the widespread belief
• 1:11:12
  of Christendom Yeah, set up by and I say widespread
• 1:11:16
  belief because yeah, if you look at Christendom
• 1:11:18
  as a whole a higher percentage of Christians
• 1:11:22
  Hold to an all millennials all millennialism
• 1:11:26
  view Yeah, our all millennialist view and that
• 1:11:29
  is all credited to Augustine. Yeah, so all the
• 1:11:33
  Catholic Church Yeah, pretty much the Anglican
• 1:11:36
  church. I'm pretty sure he was the one to kind
• 1:11:37
  of I don't know if he created the view He definitely
• 1:11:40
  popularized it. Yeah And him being a bishop also
• 1:11:45
  helps kind of spread that because it was in his
• 1:11:49
  book, The Two Cities, the city of God and the
• 1:11:51
  city of man. Yes. That's where he kind of promotes
• 1:11:54
  that idea, which, yeah, then went on to become
• 1:11:57
  the predominant view. Right. Yeah. So, yeah,
• 1:12:04
  so Amillennialism is the millennial of Revelation
• 1:12:07
  20 is symbolic of the present church age, which
• 1:12:10
  is interesting. Because that's why I say like
• 1:12:13
  It's going more symbolic versus literal timeline.
• 1:12:17
  Yes, because in the all millennials millennialism
• 1:12:19
  view if the thousand years were literal then
• 1:12:24
  Augustine would have been or Augustine would
• 1:12:27
  have been in the He would have been at least
• 1:12:30
  in the beginning or early portions of that thousand
• 1:12:33
  years. Yeah and that was the fourth or fifth
• 1:12:36
  century, so it would be up by now. That's why
• 1:12:40
  he went with symbolic. Which maybe the Reformation
• 1:12:43
  was the end of it. I mean, timeline works out.
• 1:12:47
  Fourth or fifth century. Not bad. Augustine shows
• 1:12:51
  up, and then Martin Luther puts the 95 Thesis
• 1:12:53
  on the door of the church. He did it. And that's
• 1:12:56
  the end of the thousand years. Now Satan's going.
• 1:13:00
  And then that's the modern era. Satan's released
• 1:13:02
  again. For a little while. For a little while.
• 1:13:05
  For a little bit. That's not what we believe,
• 1:13:10
  that's just funny to talk about. It is funny.
• 1:13:14
  Yeah, because Augustine, because he went with,
• 1:13:17
  if I remember right, that the first resurrection,
• 1:13:23
  he would say that's symbolic for salvation, and
• 1:13:27
  then the second one is when we are reconciled
• 1:13:30
  fully to Christ. Yeah, so going through some
• 1:13:33
  of these passages, the key scriptures in that
• 1:13:35
  is, Revelation 21 through six is interpreted
• 1:13:38
  symbolically as Christ's present reign from heaven.
• 1:13:41
  What that means is that Christ is in heaven,
• 1:13:44
  seated at the right hand of the Father, and the
• 1:13:46
  reign or the time of completion in which he reigns
• 1:13:50
  is with the saints in heaven, those who have
• 1:13:52
  been martyred that are reigning with him in heaven
• 1:13:55
  or from heaven, and they're doing so in the age
• 1:13:59
  of the church. and the age of the church would
• 1:14:02
  be, and you kind of get where this breaks down
• 1:14:06
  in a way that does make sense, where you get
• 1:14:08
  this idea that essentially Jesus doesn't come
• 1:14:13
  and reign literally on the earth. Instead, he
• 1:14:17
  defeats the spiritual spaces. He takes back Yahweh's
• 1:14:22
  portion and then the Holy Spirit comes and the
• 1:14:24
  church goes out and takes back the whole earth.
• 1:14:28
  And we are currently in the, the church age,
• 1:14:31
  or the age of the Gentiles, which is how it's
• 1:14:34
  described in the New Testament, that we are currently
• 1:14:37
  in the age of the Gentiles. And that's what Augustine
• 1:14:41
  was, that's where he would be with that, is like,
• 1:14:44
  oh no, the reign is the fact that he retook the
• 1:14:48
  spiritual space. Right. And that's him reigning.
• 1:14:51
  Yeah, and he would also take the... So even like
• 1:14:54
  Satan being bound. Right. It's like, well, he's
• 1:14:56
  bound from deceiving the nations like he could
• 1:14:58
  in the past. It's like he still has limited ability.
• 1:15:02
  Yes. But he doesn't have the same control over
• 1:15:05
  the nations like he did. Right. So he's still
• 1:15:07
  the prince of the air. Yes. But he has no control
• 1:15:11
  over those who are following Christ. Yeah. Which
• 1:15:15
  we see that that logic in the Old Testament.
• 1:15:18
  pre -Christ where, I mean, we see that with Daniel,
• 1:15:22
  or sorry, David, as he's being chased by Saul.
• 1:15:25
  And he's like, hey, don't chase me out of the
• 1:15:26
  boundary. I think we've read that on a previous.
• 1:15:29
  And it's like, okay, so there is that, like,
• 1:15:31
  boundaries do matter. Yeah, the distinction between
• 1:15:35
  the nations. Yeah, that goes to the cosmic geography
• 1:15:37
  idea. And then Jesus, through his death and resurrection,
• 1:15:42
  he basically... deleted all those boundaries.
• 1:15:45
  He's like, no, no, no, we're gonna take all,
• 1:15:47
  this is all me now. This is all back. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:15:50
  But he doesn't take back the nations at once.
• 1:15:53
  No. Instead, he takes back Israel. Yes. God's
• 1:15:57
  promised land. Yes. And then, yeah, like you
• 1:16:00
  said, through the Holy Spirit and through Christians,
• 1:16:02
  it spreads. And that's how we reclaim all those
• 1:16:05
  boundaries. Yes, the boundaries are still there
• 1:16:08
  and those gods are still there, but they do not
• 1:16:12
  have the power that they have when there are...
• 1:16:16
  more or a higher concentration of individual
• 1:16:21
  temples of the Holy Spirit, which are Christians.
• 1:16:24
  So the pervasiveness. They don't have the right
• 1:16:26
  to rule over those lands anymore. Right, because
• 1:16:28
  the temple that was in Jerusalem contained just
• 1:16:31
  in Yahweh's portion, is now that temple and that
• 1:16:34
  holy place is now all over the earth. So it's
• 1:16:37
  not just in Jerusalem, it's all over the earth.
• 1:16:39
  It's to the ends of the earth. And we even get
• 1:16:42
  the echoes of the tribulation language, where
• 1:16:46
  you have these saints that have died pre -Augustine
• 1:16:52
  in this view, or these martyrs who have been
• 1:16:54
  beheaded. These are reigning with Christ in heavenly
• 1:16:57
  places. This is all language of the New Testament.
• 1:17:02
  And so it makes sense where he kind of gets a
• 1:17:04
  lot of this stuff from. And also like how Paul
• 1:17:08
  talks about the suffering, the suffering of living
• 1:17:13
  for Christ and to live as Christ and to die as
• 1:17:16
  gain. Yeah. It's that idea that like we will
• 1:17:20
  reign with Christ in heavenly places, but while
• 1:17:24
  on the earth we will be persecuted and the world
• 1:17:28
  will hate us because of Jesus. Yeah. because
• 1:17:34
  we are representing him, they will hate us, and
• 1:17:37
  they will even try to kill us like they killed
• 1:17:39
  him, which we see so many examples of that all
• 1:17:43
  over the place. Yeah, so that's that idea. And
• 1:17:48
  yeah, like you said, like Matthew 12, 28 through
• 1:17:50
  29, Jesus' ministry shows that Satan is bound.
• 1:17:54
  So there are examples of where the Pharisees
• 1:17:58
  say, you must be casting out demons in the name
• 1:18:01
  of Beelzebub. And he's like, no. like a house
• 1:18:06
  divided can't stand. Right. He's saying, I'm
• 1:18:09
  doing this in the name of Yahweh. I'm going out
• 1:18:14
  and casting out demons by the creator of all
• 1:18:18
  things. And the kingdom of God is advancing in
• 1:18:22
  this space now. And I'm removing the spiritual
• 1:18:27
  rulers in this area, in this region and casting
• 1:18:32
  out the demonic forces in the spiritual realm
• 1:18:36
  in this region. And that's what he's doing in
• 1:18:40
  that space. So he is showing the binding of Satan's
• 1:18:44
  authority on the earth in those examples. And
• 1:18:49
  then Luke 17, 20 -21, the kingdom of God is already
• 1:18:52
  present in our midst. And then 2nd Peter 3, which
• 1:18:57
  we just read, final judgment and new creation
• 1:18:59
  occur at Christ's coming. no thousand year gap.
• 1:19:04
  So he's saying, he's looking at it as the same
• 1:19:08
  way that we talked about it in Psalm 90, and
• 1:19:11
  in this passage in 2 Peter 3, that it's the concept
• 1:19:15
  that a thousand years is when it is all completed.
• 1:19:20
  Because in the Psalm 90, which is a little bit
• 1:19:22
  more direct, and then referenced again in 2 Peter
• 1:19:26
  3 passage, you get this. completion of all things
• 1:19:31
  and all of a sudden it's the next day. And it's
• 1:19:33
  like the thousand years was yesterday. And so
• 1:19:36
  you get this idea that the final judgment and
• 1:19:38
  new creation, they all occur at Christ's coming.
• 1:19:42
  So it's all one event. And this is Amillennialism.
• 1:19:46
  And then 1 Corinthians 15, 23 through 26, Christ's
• 1:19:49
  return immediately brings the end and destroys
• 1:19:52
  death. So it's this final victory is how Amillennialism.
• 1:19:58
  odd -millennialism would describe it, which is
• 1:20:01
  pretty interesting. Yeah. Yeah, because, and
• 1:20:06
  it makes sense, like, that's why a lot of people
• 1:20:08
  hold to that belief. Yeah. But, yeah, and then
• 1:20:13
  there's several other views, which, to be honest
• 1:20:16
  with you, I don't even know if I want to get
• 1:20:17
  into them. And it's not because they're not worth
• 1:20:23
  getting into, but at the same time. Well, I mean,
• 1:20:32
  we've definitely hit the big two. That's true.
• 1:20:36
  Yeah, that's true. But you have, let me just
• 1:20:39
  read them. Okay. But you have, so breeze through.
• 1:20:42
  You have historic premillennialism or post -trib.
• 1:20:47
  You may have to rewind this and listen to it
• 1:20:48
  a couple of times. The summary of that is that
• 1:20:52
  Christ will return before a literal millennium.
• 1:20:55
  believers endure the tribulation and then reign
• 1:20:57
  with him on the earth. Yeah, and so basically
• 1:21:03
  what that means is Christ would return before
• 1:21:05
  the thousand years and then believers have to
• 1:21:08
  live through the tribulation period and then
• 1:21:10
  they will reign with him on the earth. And then
• 1:21:15
  there's pre -tribulation, rapture, dispensational,
• 1:21:18
  pre -millennialism, which is what we talked about
• 1:21:21
  a couple episodes back. dispensationalism, and
• 1:21:24
  it's the church is raptured before a seven -year
• 1:21:27
  tribulation. Christ returns after the tribulation
• 1:21:30
  to establish the millennium. You might be like,
• 1:21:32
  well, where did the seven -year tribulation come
• 1:21:34
  from? Well, dispensationalism pulls also from
• 1:21:38
  1 Thessalonians, chapter four and chapter five,
• 1:21:42
  where the rapture of the believers before wrath
• 1:21:45
  and God has not destined us for wrath, the description
• 1:21:49
  of those things. So they They actually don't
• 1:21:53
  even really get into Revelation 20. They have
• 1:21:58
  a bunch of different other passages here. Yeah,
• 1:22:02
  and then you have mid -tribulation rapture. The
• 1:22:05
  church is raptured in the middle of the seven
• 1:22:07
  -year tribulation before the great tribulation.
• 1:22:10
  So it's like a half and half thing. So a seven
• 1:22:13
  -year tribulation. But it's interesting because
• 1:22:15
  we talked a little bit in the last episode about
• 1:22:19
  the potential parallel in Revelation chapter
• 1:22:22
  2 with Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur, which is
• 1:22:29
  the Feast of Trumpets, which is a 10 -day period
• 1:22:32
  of repentance which lands in Yom Kippur, which
• 1:22:35
  is the beginning of the Jewish New Year, and
• 1:22:37
  it's believed in the Mishnah, which is a commentary
• 1:22:42
  on creation, a Jewish commentary that is alongside
• 1:22:46
  the Torah that calls back to the idea that Rosh
• 1:22:51
  Hashanah and Yom Kippur are echoing the anniversary
• 1:22:56
  of creation itself. So it's like the new creation
• 1:23:00
  will happen on the anniversary of the old creation.
• 1:23:03
  But then that describes in Revelation two, it's
• 1:23:06
  referencing Rosh Hashanah and it's doing it in
• 1:23:10
  such a way where it's referencing this 10 day
• 1:23:13
  period of tribulation. So you kind of go like,
• 1:23:15
  is it seven years? Is it 10 days? Was it yesterday?
• 1:23:19
  You know what I mean? It's like, there's a bunch
• 1:23:21
  of different things here. And we're not even,
• 1:23:23
  like again, like this is not a study of Revelation
• 1:23:26
  20. It's just a discussion of like, there's so
• 1:23:30
  much to talk about. Yes. And we're kind of building
• 1:23:32
  up to Amos. Yeah. It's, there's a lot. Yeah.
• 1:23:36
  It's all right. There's two more. Post -Tribulation
• 1:23:38
  Rapture. The Rapture and Second Coming are the
• 1:23:41
  same event at the end of the Tribulation. So
• 1:23:44
  there's a time of Tribulation. And then the rapture
• 1:23:47
  and the second coming of Jesus would happen at
• 1:23:49
  the same time, which I kind of like that idea
• 1:23:53
  that like there is this tribulation period and
• 1:23:56
  the saints endure to the end. And then when Christ
• 1:23:58
  returns on the clouds, as described, that the
• 1:24:02
  the church then is the wheat taken from the chaff
• 1:24:05
  lifted up into the sky with I'm not saying I
• 1:24:08
  hold to that view. I just I see that it seems
• 1:24:11
  to be more of a parallel. Yeah. And it seems
• 1:24:13
  to echo a lot of. Yeah. Paul's sister's theology.
• 1:24:18
  Yeah. I like it. That's going to be an inside
• 1:24:24
  joke. As martyrs row people. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:24:29
  Post -trib definitely echoes better for us. Oh,
• 1:24:34
  yeah. It's more on brand. Yeah. It doesn't mean
• 1:24:37
  that that's what we hold to. We hold to. It's
• 1:24:40
  just, it's, we want to suffer for Christ. or
• 1:24:45
  just die, for Christ. Yeah, because members of
• 1:24:50
  Marja's Row, check out raptureready .com if you
• 1:24:56
  are around after the Rapture. Yeah, if you are.
• 1:25:01
  If you want to be a tribulation tank. Our word's
• 1:25:05
  not theirs, but you can write to them. Yeah.
• 1:25:09
  If you're writing to them after the rapture,
• 1:25:12
  then they probably won't answer. Yeah. And I
• 1:25:14
  know even in some ways, like it might seem like
• 1:25:16
  we know a little bit more about one thing or
• 1:25:18
  the other. It's really just, we're kind of just
• 1:25:20
  trying to hit all of these, all of these pieces
• 1:25:23
  because you have all millennialism and then you
• 1:25:26
  have like pre, mid and post. Tribulation. Tribulation,
• 1:25:32
  and those three are like kind of all in the same
• 1:25:33
  camp as far as the foundation of that. Right.
• 1:25:36
  And then you also have premillennialism, and
• 1:25:39
  then millenarianism, which kind of came before
• 1:25:42
  everything. So, I mean, these are the big concepts
• 1:25:48
  as far as what it looks like for the end of times,
• 1:25:52
  what happens in the end times. Which, I mean,
• 1:25:54
  it is wild just on the face of it. that it's
• 1:25:57
  like, okay, here's a thing people are like, oh,
• 1:25:59
  I've got to figure it out. It's like, yeah, but
• 1:26:01
  there's like at least six different views that
• 1:26:05
  people are convinced of. You have written volumes
• 1:26:10
  and volumes of books on, have had debates, and
• 1:26:15
  sometimes wars over. So to say like, this is
• 1:26:21
  it. Right. okay well and and one one space passage
• 1:26:28
  that we didn't read out of which is basically
• 1:26:31
  the words of Jesus and I feel like in the last
• 1:26:34
  three to four episodes we've read from this at
• 1:26:36
  some point I can't yeah it's all kind of mushing
• 1:26:39
  together but it's Matthew 24 and Matthew 24 is
• 1:26:43
  Jesus talking about the end of the age as its
• 1:26:46
  disciples ask about that and he goes into he
• 1:26:50
  goes into all this description as well and when
• 1:26:53
  he goes into that description one of the things
• 1:26:55
  is he he talks about it as a woman giving birth
• 1:26:59
  he talks about it in this idea that there's wars
• 1:27:01
  and rumors of wars and these things will happen
• 1:27:05
  but don't lose hope don't have fear because they
• 1:27:08
  have to happen it's as a woman giving birth it's
• 1:27:11
  as birth pains or pangs depending on on your
• 1:27:16
  translation how old your english is yeah but
• 1:27:18
  these birth that the earth is groaning and longing
• 1:27:22
  for the return of the King, that there is this
• 1:27:25
  concept where Jesus is basically saying, there
• 1:27:28
  is this birth. of new life coming, but the pains
• 1:27:33
  of childbirth is what you're experiencing now.
• 1:27:37
  So it's almost like he's expressing it in the
• 1:27:40
  same way he typically does in these visuals of
• 1:27:44
  stories or parables that come alongside the narrative
• 1:27:47
  or in the metaphors that he's giving and the
• 1:27:49
  descriptions that he's giving to explain what's
• 1:27:52
  literally happening or what's about to happen.
• 1:27:55
  That it's this idea that new creation will be
• 1:27:59
  as if in an instant, but we will feel the effects
• 1:28:02
  of birth happening up until the point in which
• 1:28:04
  it does breed new life, which is beautiful. Yeah,
• 1:28:08
  it is. Because that is the that's that piece
• 1:28:11
  of like, all right, God is working out all things
• 1:28:14
  for the good of those who love him. And we feel
• 1:28:18
  those pains, right? Yeah. Mother rejoices at
• 1:28:21
  the end of it. And it's as if the birth didn't
• 1:28:23
  happen. She forgets. how painful it was, which
• 1:28:27
  is why she then turns around and has another
• 1:28:28
  child. But it's it's that idea that like we will
• 1:28:33
  forget that trauma and live in the light of new
• 1:28:36
  life. Yeah. But through the tribulation comes
• 1:28:39
  new life and new birth. And that's what Matthew
• 1:28:42
  24 is kind of sentiment of speaking to. And can
• 1:28:45
  I can I also say it's it's kind of I know we're
• 1:28:48
  going a little bit long. Oh, you're good. But
• 1:28:51
  hey, it's our show. We can do what we want, I
• 1:28:52
  guess. It does echo kind of like that story of
• 1:28:58
  Job, which I think is another part of it where,
• 1:29:02
  and I laugh, I've heard pastors say this, and
• 1:29:06
  I've heard other people that are not pastors
• 1:29:07
  say this too, where it's like, okay, we live
• 1:29:09
  in Florida. Pastors say that all the time. They
• 1:29:13
  do. Pastors in Florida are like, we live in Florida.
• 1:29:16
  It's like, oh, we get it. We get it. We live
• 1:29:19
  here too. Leave me alone. At the grocery store,
• 1:29:23
  hey, we live in Florida. I was trying to forget
• 1:29:26
  for a minute. But you know, it's like, oh, there's
• 1:29:31
  a hurricane coming. God's judging us. And then
• 1:29:34
  it's like, they don't say that, but then they're
• 1:29:35
  like, it's hurricane season. It happens every
• 1:29:38
  year. That's what's happening right now. It's
• 1:29:39
  like, that's just it. Yeah. And so I think that
• 1:29:44
  there's, and why I bring up Job is like that
• 1:29:46
  echo is one of the things that God shows in that,
• 1:29:50
  and we see this throughout Genesis as well. is
• 1:29:53
  that God didn't create an earth that was without
• 1:29:57
  the capacity for suffering. Sure. And so there
• 1:30:01
  is suffering that is from God. Okay, you're getting
• 1:30:05
  into a whole different topic. Which is a whole
• 1:30:06
  different thing. But what I'm saying is like,
• 1:30:08
  I think a lot of times we look at things that
• 1:30:10
  it's like, oh, this is bad. Sure. But it's like,
• 1:30:12
  oh, but those are, you know, birthing pains.
• 1:30:14
  Right. It's like, that's actually not bad. It's
• 1:30:17
  the process. It doesn't mean it doesn't hurt.
• 1:30:19
  Process of purification. Yeah. So it's kind of
• 1:30:21
  like that separation between, okay, what is actually
• 1:30:25
  evil and what is just not good, if that makes
• 1:30:30
  sense. Or not enjoyable. That's better. That's
• 1:30:32
  better. That's a better phrase. Because good
• 1:30:33
  is our definition. Right. Not biblical definition.
• 1:30:37
  Yeah. Yeah, no, no, and that's true because,
• 1:30:40
  yeah, it is one of those things that... Yeah,
• 1:30:42
  that's New Testament all the way through. I mean,
• 1:30:44
  even talking about tribulation, jumping in here
• 1:30:47
  a little bit, but it's like, even with that,
• 1:30:48
  it's like, we've talked about this a lot. It's
• 1:30:50
  like when God called what He created good, what
• 1:30:53
  He called it was useful. He's like, this is purposeful.
• 1:30:56
  It has use. And so when we look through the tribulation,
• 1:31:03
  it's like, if God is the one who's purifying
• 1:31:05
  the earth, and it's like, well, He's using suffering
• 1:31:09
  to purify, to make things better. even though
• 1:31:12
  it hurts in the process. I'm not saying that
• 1:31:14
  that is what's happening. But it's like, oh,
• 1:31:17
  if God is purifying the earth, which we know
• 1:31:20
  he says he's going to do, it's not gonna be enjoyable.
• 1:31:24
  Yeah, well, it will be total destruction. Yeah,
• 1:31:27
  that's what I mean. It's like, yeah, this isn't
• 1:31:30
  great. It's not that, and that's the thing is
• 1:31:33
  like, maybe I will take a stance on this. I wouldn't
• 1:31:36
  hold to the view that things are progressively
• 1:31:39
  getting better. meaning the process of purification
• 1:31:42
  is the earth being shaped and we're feeling shaping.
• 1:31:47
  Oh, when it's final, we better not be here. Yeah,
• 1:31:49
  yeah, yeah. That means we're also getting destroyed.
• 1:31:52
  Right. Or purified. In the refining of fire,
• 1:31:56
  the fire that comes and destroys the impure.
• 1:31:59
  Right. And maybe it goes back, maybe the earth
• 1:32:02
  goes back to that state of darkness in order
• 1:32:08
  for there to be new life. but that's a whole
• 1:32:11
  different thing. But as a side point. Yeah, yeah,
• 1:32:13
  but I think in the overall discussion of what
• 1:32:16
  we're talking about is this concept that like,
• 1:32:20
  again, we're not mentioning. where we would land
• 1:32:24
  in any of these spaces, leaning in some ways
• 1:32:27
  or liking certain things or understanding why
• 1:32:30
  certain beliefs are the way that they are. I
• 1:32:33
  think at the end of the day, we realize that
• 1:32:36
  we are all making decisions actively based off
• 1:32:39
  of what our set beliefs are. Or what we are doing
• 1:32:43
  is we are reacting in real time and our beliefs
• 1:32:46
  are created on the back of our reaction. So I
• 1:32:50
  think if you are a Christian, then I think it's
• 1:32:54
  important to understand and set in place beliefs
• 1:32:57
  and doctrines that allow you to conduct your
• 1:33:01
  life in a way that's non -reactive, but instead
• 1:33:05
  proactive where you know how to make a decision
• 1:33:08
  when something comes up because of the doctrines
• 1:33:11
  that you've set before you based on scripture.
• 1:33:14
  So I think that is valuable. However, what's
• 1:33:16
  not valuable is doctrine that enforces hurting
• 1:33:22
  other people, neglecting other people, or doctrines,
• 1:33:27
  particularly doctrines of the end times or the
• 1:33:31
  end of the age that would put down other people
• 1:33:35
  and cause us to shame other people and mock them
• 1:33:41
  in the way that they would mock us for our beliefs.
• 1:33:46
  But instead, walking in love and a deep desire
• 1:33:50
  to help get people on the boat. Yeah. You know
• 1:33:53
  what I mean? And that's where Amos comes in.
• 1:33:57
  Can I actually, before we go there, I'm actually
• 1:33:59
  going to sidestep it real quick. Okay. With another
• 1:34:01
  verse. With another verse. Okay, go for it. And
• 1:34:04
  so this is another one of my favorite verses,
• 1:34:05
  which is Micah 6, 8. Cool. And so what that says,
• 1:34:09
  this is kind of on the B side of that verse.
• 1:34:12
  And it's like, okay, so what does God require
• 1:34:15
  of us? And it's to do justice. to love mercy
• 1:34:19
  or love kindness, depending on your translation,
• 1:34:21
  and to walk humbly with God. And it's like, okay,
• 1:34:25
  that's our posture. So it's like, to do justice
• 1:34:29
  when we see things that are against the principles
• 1:34:32
  that God has laid out for us, we are to react
• 1:34:36
  to that in a just way. But at the same time,
• 1:34:38
  we're supposed to do kindness or to love mercy.
• 1:34:42
  So it's like... Oh, at the same time, we're supposed
• 1:34:45
  to show mercy and love to people. Yes. And to
• 1:34:47
  be kind to one another. Yes. So another New Testament
• 1:34:50
  phrasing of that is to speak truth and love.
• 1:34:54
  Yeah. That's what that is. Yeah. But then at
• 1:34:56
  the same time, it's understanding that we're
• 1:34:58
  going to mess both of those things up. Sure.
• 1:35:00
  So walk humbly before the Lord so that way he
• 1:35:03
  can correct you and guide your path. Yes. So
• 1:35:05
  that way we can do the first two things properly.
• 1:35:08
  Yeah. No, I love that. On the other side of that,
• 1:35:13
  when we're not doing those things, that's when
• 1:35:16
  we jump to our boy Amos. It's Amos time. Amos
• 1:35:19
  time. And, oh man, what a classic. Woe to you.
• 1:35:25
  Love me some Amos. Woe to you. Who longed for
• 1:35:28
  the day of the Lord. Yeah. Yeah. So I think jumping
• 1:35:36
  all the way back to our original question, our...
• 1:35:39
  are we living in the thousand years, the thousand
• 1:35:43
  year reign of Christ? And I think the answer
• 1:35:48
  to that would depend on which eschatology you
• 1:35:51
  hold to. If you're all millennial, then yes.
• 1:35:59
  But the thousand years is not a literal thousand
• 1:36:01
  years. So then technically yes. Yeah. And if
• 1:36:06
  you're at the other views, then. Not yet, not
• 1:36:10
  yet Not yet or yes and Depending on which one
• 1:36:18
  did Christ come first before the thousand years
• 1:36:20
  or after or is it the seven years of tribulation
• 1:36:24
  or potentially you gotta do all of it Ten days
• 1:36:29
  of tribulation It potentially when you're hearing
• 1:36:33
  this if it was ten days of tribulation. It could
• 1:36:36
  have happened last week Yeah, which would be
• 1:36:40
  bad for our timing. Yeah, or perfect. That's
• 1:36:44
  true. Tribulation tanks out there. Time to find
• 1:36:47
  out. Three, two, one. That's like me for all
• 1:37:06
  right take three you probably won't use this
• 1:37:07
  uh -huh