Latest / The HighDive / Ep. 3 | Can I Trust My Bible? Part 3 | Why I Still Trust My Bible: Confidence, Authority, and Preaching Scripture

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Ep. 3 | Can I Trust My Bible? Part 3 | Why I Still Trust My Bible: Confidence, Authority, and Preaching Scripture · The HighDive

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome back to the High Die podcast, episode twice.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_02: Or to French.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_02: French.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_02: Man, that's right.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_00: I forgot you studied French.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_00: I did.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_00: High school.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: So.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_02: Can you uh how would you say like welcome in French?
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_02: Bonjour.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, bonjour.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_02: I knew that word.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_02: Man, uh the High Dive Podcast Podcast.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_02: Uh where we're every other episode, Philip, we have recorded in the afternoon.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_02: This is in the morning.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_02: Therefore, I have coffee instead of sparkling water.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_02: So the words may it may take a little warm-up.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_02: It takes a little time.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_02: But it's okay.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_02: If this is your first time finding our podcast, welcome.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_02: We're glad that you were here.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_02: You're jumping in at episode three in a three what we hope will be a four-part series answering the question, can I trust the Bible?
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_02: So please uh go back into the archives if you're kind of jumping in in the middle of a longer conversation.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_02: But we always want to remind folks our our target audience is first and foremost uh the people of our church, Calvary Baptist Church here in Columbus, Georgia, kind of helping to grow our faith as we walk and pursue Jesus together.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_02: But certainly anyone is welcome.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_02: This is on the the ether of the interweb things.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_02: And so anybody could find it.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_02: So we hope you're encouraged.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um you can check out the show notes to link more about our church, or if you are in another part of the country or the world and you need help connecting with the church in your area, we would love to help you do that so that you can walk and find faith um and pursue Jesus with a community of believers where you live, work, learn, and play.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_02: And so uh Philip, glad you're here today.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_02: It's good to be here today.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I think it might be helpful just in case.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_02: Like, who are you?
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_02: Like, what do you do?
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_00: Well, obviously, my name is Philip, and I serve as the pastors pastor for missions and community outreach here at Calvary.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_00: So um coordinating, developing, managing all the relationships that we have off of our campus, both globally and locally.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_02: And when you and I have traveled to France before, uh your somewhat basic understanding of the French language has been helpful.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_02: So thank you.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_02: It it's been okay.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_02: Fair.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_02: Uh okay, let's have some fun for a minute.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_02: Let's talk about France.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_02: So are I know the answer to this, but the people listening to this may not.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_02: Are the croissants in France actually as good as people say that they are?
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, uh yes, yes, but it's different.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um the freshness, the flakiness, like it we don't have anything here that can compare to it.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's a whole whole experience that yeah, it's just different over there.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_02: I agree.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, it's special.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, you were not prepared for this question.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_02: No.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_02: But I'm gonna ask it.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_02: You probably panic because you do travel a lot.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_02: Um, a, because you just enjoy traveling.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_02: B, as a missions pastor, you go a lot.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_02: Uh what is your favorite country or city that you visited in the world?
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, now there's there's a difference there.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_00: Is it for pleasure or for ministry?
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_02: Uh let's hear both.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_00: So I've I've always said that my favorite city in the world is Rome.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I vacationed there a couple times.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, the food, my wife Lola, we love just walking the streets.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's architecture, the art, everything is is awesome.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_00: Rome, if you haven't been, you need to go.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, for ministry, though, I would say coda, India.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_00: Just because of uh the confidence that we have in the in the work with hope givers, our dear friends there.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, the gospel transformation that happens within that ministry of lives, generational lives being changed.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you see things that you've never seen before, you've seen poverty that you've never seen before, but you also see joy and confidence in Christ that you've never seen before.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_00: So true.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_00: And so every time I go there, I am challenged, I am humbled, I am encouraged, I'm sparked with just new life and energy uh for for the sake of the kingdom, for the sake of the gospel.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um so Coda has a special place in my heart from a from a personal perspective, but also from a ministry perspective.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_02: Agreed.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_02: Having been there, it is amazing.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_02: And speaking of having been there, uh if folks in our church are listening to this podcast and maybe they've been thinking about like I really need to go on a mission trip, but I'm not sure, like obviously they could just come talk to you.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_02: Is there a space that they could get more information or explore what trips we've got coming up?
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_00: Or yeah, if you go to the website calvaryga.com forward slash trips, that is going to give a detailed um information for all of our trips.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_00: We go to Mexico, we go to France, and we go to India.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_00: There is a detailed page of what a typical schedule is going to be like, what a packing list would be, where what are the accommodations are going to be, but more importantly, is going to answer the question: why do we go to these places?
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_00: Why do we go to Mexico, France, and India?
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_00: What is the purpose of that?
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_00: How does it fit into the um kingdom aspect that we all want to live in of God's kingdom?
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_00: We're subjects in his kingdom.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_00: And so how are we expanding God's kingdom in those areas?
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and what is the actual tangible physical thing that we're going to be doing in those places?
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_00: So calvaryga.com forward slash trips.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_00: That's going to give you a detailed um information and all the things that you would need to know for those trips.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_02: Helpful reminder.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, as as ambassadors for Christ, as Paul would say, we are then to live sent.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think it's uh an opportunity, an expectation, an invitation, a mandate, a commandment, whatever word we want to use for every follower of Jesus to participate in kingdom advancement missions.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_02: And so whether that's going, praying, resourcing, all those things.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_02: And so uh pray about that.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I and I I would argue um you can't read scripture without having an eye towards the nations.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um and in the same way, you can't read scripture without having an eye towards your local community.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's not an either or, it's a both and.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm really proud of our church on how we take up that mantle of it's not we're not one or the other.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_00: We could do both.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_02: So, what what I'm also hearing is maybe there's some opportunities for some future podcasts we can discuss and explore, maybe go deeper into that.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_02: But for today, um, we want to kind of dive into the meat of episode three.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_02: So let me just give a little bit of a uh recap.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_02: So in episode one, Pastor Alan was here, and we really um we really dove deeply into what is the issue in Mark 16 that has created this conversation and ultimately challenged us to not panic when we come to those places.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_02: Episode two, Pastor Frank was in here and we defined some terms.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_02: We looked at what are manuscripts, what are textual variants, and ultimately kind of centered around uh the providence of God.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_02: And if we trust the creator and the sustainer of the universe to inspire scripture, we can also trust uh an all-powerful God to sustain and um guard that scripture to preserve it over time.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_02: So today, in this episode, we want to start to bring that together to some matters of faith and conviction and even lead up to our final episode where we'll really kind of get into the weeds about translations and all that kind of stuff.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_02: So uh I think today we're really gonna look at, okay, can I trust my Bible?
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_02: Do I trust my Bible?
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_02: Not just academically, not just as a historical document, but devotionally, spiritually.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_02: Why do I, maybe even you, why do I still open the Bible with confidence and say, like, God speak to me?
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_02: Um, or even not every time, but you know, most Sundays through our corporate prayer time, before we'll study scripture, we will even say, like, speak, Lord, your servants are listening.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_02: And we're doing that as we're opening into the Bible.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_02: So maybe I would love to maybe just start with some personal testimony for you.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_02: Like uh it'll be a compound question, like, do you trust the Bible?
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_02: Have you always trusted the Bible?
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_02: Have there ever been times in your faith journey where you have kind of struggled or questioned, like, can I can I really rely on this?
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_02: Well, unpack that for us for you personally.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I well, I think if we're all honest, we all struggle and have these moments of, is this true?
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: Is this reliable?
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_00: Was this put together by men and just one big scheme?
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I I remember in high school and even a little bit in college, um, even while I was serving in the church and leadership and youth ministry and college ministry and and and things like that, there was this lingering doubt of like, is this true?
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_00: Is is this the instruction manual for life?
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like I've heard my whole life.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because there was moments where you know you feel like you're doing the right thing, you feel like you're living by the Bible, but crap just keeps hitting you.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_00: And you're just like, what this is not the abundant life that I read about.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um all of these challenges, all of these struggles, all of these things.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_00: When do I get to that abundant life?
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I think part of that is just immaturity on my part, of really understanding what abundant life means.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but uh yeah, there were definitely this moment of like, I don't have confidence of opening this Bible and believing that I'm not being taken for a ride because you know, you you kind of lean into the critics of it was orchestrated by men, it's a big scheme, it's this, that, whatever else, and uh it's so far removed from the original text.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but over time, through God's grace and counsel and um continuing to work out my salvation, um, really turning and and and seeing how living by this book, um, life isn't great, life isn't perfect, but living by this book is uh is the design of of is the way that life is meant to be lived, the the design of it all.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um I think our good friend Patrick Thompson um says it this way, you know, you you try all these things, um do life this way, do life that way, and his evangelistic turn is how's that working out for you?
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um and the more I study scripture, the more that I open scripture, the more that I um just dive in, the more I realize that it only works out if I live out what the Bible says.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um so there have been so many things, so many trials, so many things that my wife and I I've personally walked through and you realize that we couldn't have peace in a situation without reading the word, without living out the word, or um even direction in life.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_00: You know, all your ways acknowledge him, he will direct your paths.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_00: Like there have been so many times where that has actually happened, and and we have confidence in in what the Lord what the Lord is doing.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks for sharing that.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_02: When I when I hear that, there are kind of two thoughts I have.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_02: One is the I think the key word, even in what we're calling this series, is can I trust the Bible?
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_02: So it's that key word of trust, and trust by definition is action that relies on what I've been told.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_02: And even in your testimony, you've you've commented then as you've do I live this out, do I turn to scripture, do I acknowledge the Lord in these moments?
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_02: And as you've done that, he's met you through that.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_02: I guess my my question then, would you say through that process, you just went back in your mind to high school, college, even to now, would you say that that process has led you to a place where you have avoided hard questions or you've allowed yourself or given yourself permission to ask those hard questions?
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_00: I I think you have you don't you don't grow unless you ask the hard questions or you lean into those hard questions.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_00: Kind of like I talked about the abundant life.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we we think that it's just it's a life of ease and it's a life of you know getting whatever we want.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_00: And there's a lot of immaturity in that mindset there, but abundant life is we're able to walk with Christ.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we're able to have that the creator of the universe, the person who uh died on the cross, like he is with us.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that is the abundant life there.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, I think for us to be able to really understand scripture so that we can trust, you have to ask those hard questions.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, oftentimes that is not you you can't stay within yourself, you have to bring others into that process.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_00: So you have to ask wise counsel, ask those hard questions to wise counsel to help wrestle, which speaks to the community of our faith.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's not No Man is an island, it's a great book.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like, and and it's so true.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_00: Like we have to bring in our community of trusted and um wiser people who have already wrestled with some of these hard questions um so that we can build our confidence.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_00: And and you talked about trust.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, trust is built over time too, it's not something that's just gonna happen overnight.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's that diligent.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_00: I am working this out, I am allowing time to be on my side to build that trust um over the long haul.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_02: And I think if you don't and you instead avoid the hard questions, uh at the end of the day, avoiding hard questions will actually produce a faith that is fragile.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_02: Uh and a fragile faith is going to collapse at the first sign of real pressure.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_02: And so today I I I want, I hope to kind of start turning the page where we can talk about confidence, not a shallow confidence, not uh not a defensive posture, but real confidence.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_02: And so maybe we want to think through uh comparing and contrasting what trusting scripture doesn't mean, uh, but then also think about what it does mean.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_02: So I would love for you to think through maybe you can entertain that second, like what does it mean?
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_02: And I'll think through for a minute what's what trusting scripture does not mean.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_02: So um just to kind of clear the ground here, trusting scripture does not pretend that there are no difficult passages.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_02: Uh whether that's textual variants that we discussed, there are some really difficult passages in scripture to reason with, like especially some of the old testament passages where you know it at first pass it seems like God is telling the people of Israel to annihilate uh a similar like what what is happening here?
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_02: And so if I that's a very difficult passage, and there are others like them that that creates a lot of struggle of faith for people.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_02: So that rather than using that as a springboard, well then now I can't trust the Bible, this is all hogwash.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, let me actually lean in.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it doesn't mean that I refuse to even acknowledge some of those manuscript questions.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it doesn't mean that I think there's a risk that because we're talking about faith, and let's just be honest, faith can sometimes lean more to the emotional side, um, especially if we think of what is uh sadly, I think, overembellished of like modern-day worship contexts.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, oh, this is all emotional, and I feel this connection to God.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_02: And I think we should strive to feel a connection to God.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_02: I am not throwing the baby out with a bath water, but I think that creates this danger of well, if I don't feel it, it isn't real.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_02: It must not be true.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think it therefore it doesn't mean I shut down my brain.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_02: I don't, I don't need to shut down God has God has challenged me to love him with my heart, soul, and my mind.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_02: And so there is this scholarship level that I think we all need to lean into.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_02: And I even mentioned that last week, the importance of always being a learner.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I also think it doesn't uh it doesn't mean that uh we as pastors or teachers of the word should be threatened when uh somebody in our church or somebody that we interact with asks uh a sincere hard question, because I think if if there's a threatening nature or a defensive posture, uh that's that's not maturity, that's insecurity.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think we as the people of God should not fear questions, but we should be prepared to dig and search the scriptures uh and lead us to a place that we can answer them full of grace and truth.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_02: Um so maybe those are some things about what it doesn't mean.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_02: What would you say though, that will flip we flip that over?
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_02: What does trusting scripture mean?
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I think the first trusting scripture means you're approaching it with a spirit of humility and submission.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, I don't have all the answers.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_00: I'm going to the book that I believe and I'm trusting has all the answers.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_00: So even if I go through difficult questions or difficult passages or things like that, there's a there's a bedrock of hey, I'm trusting this because I believe this is the source of truth, that this is the source of um answers for everyday living.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um it's I don't yeah, that humility, I don't have the answers.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_00: I am submitting myself to to the book that does.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um I also think when when you look at okay, what does it mean?
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_00: I looking at the life of Jesus, how he interacted with scripture and how he um built all of his responses, he was quote quoting scripture more than more than it.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, absolutely.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think when you look at trusting scripture means you're using it, you are engaged with it, you are seeing it as the truth that that it is.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um uh you're trusting that uh what God has inspired, He He truly did preserve.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_00: So for me, when I was questioning is this just a group of men who is scheming the whole world, well, I either believe that all scripture is god breathed, used for teaching, rebuking, correcting, and training in righteousness, or I don't.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_00: So if if that has been preserved throughout all of eternity or or all of human history, um I I either believe that or I don't.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um so truly believing that of the text that we have, um, it has gone through so many tests, so many scrutiny, um so many validating processes, and that it's not men who is uh carrying this through human history, God is the one that's preserving it.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um and so I think leaning leaning in that uh for sure.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um I also think when you look at what what it does mean to trust, I have never known a person who would die for a lie.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_00: So when you look at the apostles, when you look at other uh believers, believers today that are still dying because of the Bible and what the Bible.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Represents and stands for.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_00: No one dies for a lie.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_00: So we could trust it because the amount of life-changing um moments for people all over the world and people who are willing to die for it.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_00: I think that brings a lot of validity to it.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_00: You know, scripture talks about approaching our faith, approaching um Jesus with a childlike faith.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think there is this tension that we have of what does it mean to trust, where we don't check our mind at the door.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_00: We love God with our whole mind.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um and and and we we ask those difficult questions.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_00: But I also think at the end of the day, there's the tension there where we do approach this with faith, like assurance of things, um, hope for and confidence of things that that are not seen.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_00: And so uh it's it's that managing the tension of approaching it with with a childlike faith, as well as loving God with our mind, um, and and wrestling with with some of the harder questions, harder things.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_02: That's good stuff.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_02: I I'm even thinking, you know, uh you just you just referred to Hebrews 12, 1 and 2, which is kind of like uh the the definition of it.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_02: Um so excuse me, Hebrews 11, 1 and 2.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I'm gonna pull this up.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_02: Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction for things not seen.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_02: Verse 2 though.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_02: For by it the people of old receive their condemnation.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so that and and then following, we're seeing story after story after story of the heroes of the faith that come in.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_02: And so there is a lot of strength in that where uh where my mind starts to drift back.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_02: Um we we touched on this a little bit in episode two.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_02: Naturally, there are some people that um trust more easily, and then there are others that uh I get that, and I I really want to trust that, but I still need a little more evidence.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think that is where the willingness to to kind of unlock that intellect, loving God with my mind, scholarly research is a willingness to to kind of do some digging in to be more informed.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, and in fact, I'm gonna ask our um our podcast producer Blake maybe to to add a couple of links into the show notes because like I was uh in preparation for this episode, I came across this.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_02: It's actually a like a white paper for a longer research project that a guy named Harold Wilmington did, and I don't know Harold.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_02: Uh it was it was through the research that it was on Liberty University's page.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_02: But you know, he he asked this question like when, where, and by whom were the biblical books acknowledged to be, and this is a word that we have not yet used, canonical in nature.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_02: So um canonical or the canon of scripture.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_02: That that that word is kind of a weird word.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_02: It this is not with two N's in the middle, like a like a weapon that shoots a cannonball.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_02: This is C A N-O-N, one N in the middle.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_02: And it's it's the idea of um what has been established as authoritative or another definition of the word.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's the measuring rod.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_02: It's it has met the standard criteria.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I think what a lot of people, I hope, are encouraged to think through is the old testament was uh ratified, if we want to use that highly commonly accepted, like hundreds of years before Christ.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_02: And when we look at this, um there's this period of history from the end of Amalachi to the opening of Matthew.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_02: There's this, it's commonly called the Maccabean period.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um about 400 years.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_02: So before the Maccabean period started, the Old Testament canon was already adopted and received and affirmed.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_02: Um and and even Jesus acknowledged and affirmed it.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_02: Luke, I'm I'm gonna lean to my notes here, um, Luke 11, 50 through 51.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_02: Jesus says that the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of this generation, from the blood of Abel, Genesis, to the blood of Zacharias, which perished between the altar and the temple, which he's referring there now to the end of the Old Testament.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_02: Um Zechariah's martyrdom, he's basically saying from Genesis to Malachi.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_02: We read of, we read of that Zacharias's martyrdom in the uh end of 2 Chronicles, which interestingly uh in the the Hebrew Old Testament structure, um, it ends in 2 Chronicles, whereas ours ends in Malachi, but it's um it's all the same books, just the order's different.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_02: That that's another conversation that's fascinating.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_02: But either way, uh in essence, Jesus He himself is ratifying all the Old Testament, yeah.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so what what is that knowledge and information, how does that shape your trust in the Old Testament at least?
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_00: I I think I again we mentioned this earlier, how Jesus handled the Old Testament and having the full confidence of as he's responding, he's quoting, as he's living out, he he knew it was important for him to have time with the Father.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_00: And so many times in the New Testament, as you're reading the life of Christ, you're seeing him go off to a desolate place and pray.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but then also you're seeing that he's not living alone, he he's going back to his disciples.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_00: And then as a collective group, they're engaging the world by expanding the kingdom, the kingdom that he has brought that we studied, Mark 1, um, the kingdom is near, the kingdom is at hand, repent and believe in the gospel.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_00: So all of that is wrapped into um one could even argue a summarization of the old testament.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_00: And so when I see how Jesus lived out the Old Testament in that regard, um, and as you uh referred Luke 11, um, there is an incredible amount.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_00: If it's good for Jesus, it's good for me.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_02: And I think it's also helpful from the Old Testament perspective.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_02: You you mentioned this a minute ago, the the frequency at which Jesus quoted and referred.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_02: He did not exclusively refer to just the Torah, the first five books of the Bible.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_02: He often referred to the Psalms.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_02: He often referred to Daniel, Ezekiel, Nehemiah, you know, some of the prophetic books.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_02: And so there is, if somebody wanted to explore that further, there are certainly other evidence from um ancient historians like Josephus that that give us even further affirmation of the canon, the authorized books of the Old Testament being accepted early on, truthfully, never in debate.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_02: I I will we're not gonna chase this rabbit in the interest of time, but I think any of the Old Testament books, it's not been debated what's in, it's more been debated what's not in.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_02: And it's kind of leaning the more to those um in the in the Catholic Old Testament, those, you know, and from the Protestant word, we would use uh the Apocrypha, the those, those second-level books that are that are coming out of the Maccabean period.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_02: And so it's kind of been more debate on what what did we do with those.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_02: Um so the I think when we shift to the New Testament, because of where it was written in history, and we we discussed last week some of those manuscripts and the frequency of them and how many of them that we have and how widely circulated they were.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_02: I think we that's one where we need to start looking at, okay, what was the what was the mindset and the attitude of the early church?
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_02: Those, whether it's apostles or those that directly related and saw face to face, eye to eye with the apostles.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm just gonna read through some factoids here.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_02: Uh 150 AD, Polycarp.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_02: Do you remember by the way you and I went to Turkey?
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_02: Do you remember when we were in the city where he was killed?
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_02: Do you remember that?
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_00: Vaguely.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_02: Polycarp is amazing.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_02: Just his confidence, his confidence.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_02: He he was a disciple of John.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_02: Uh he quoted from two-thirds of the New Testament in a letter.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_02: Um 170 AD, Ireneus, uh, who was a disciple of Polycarp, um, either quoted from or considered uh 23 of the 27 New Testament books to be canon, meaning the measuring rod, authoritative.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_02: Uh 200 A.D.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_02: By that time, um, all but 11 New Testament verses were quoted in more than 36,000 writings or citations by the church fathers.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_00: That's an incredible number.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_02: Isn't it though?
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_00: I, yeah, you know, when you look at all of this and you you look at just how much of the scripture from the early church, uh, early fathers um centered around citating, you know, it it brings so much evidence that this what is these verses is the inspired word.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_02: Correct.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_02: And I think this is where now if we if we were to continue to go through the history line and if we get to like um a uh the end of the fourth century, or like we're at 393 AD somewhere, and we're now getting into like the Council of Hippo or the Council at Carthage, this is where the skeptics start to find ammunition.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_02: Because uh in in the context of the organized Catholic Church at this point, so some something had shifted.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_02: Man, I gotta, I gotta so resist this temptation to chase this rabbit.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um we have we have now in this, we'll call it 400 years, just to oversimplify the timeline, we've shifted from a still a very, very Jewish historian faith now into this Roman Catholic faith.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_02: Or or I would I will Catholic faith.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_02: I'll devoid the the Roman part.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_02: And so now we've got the Council of Hippo, the Councils at Carthage that are affirming the canonical books.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_02: Like these are the books that we are going to craft together and call our Bible.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_02: So that that was a true point in history.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_02: What a lot of people who maybe have already a preconceived uh skeptical or predetermined opinion about the Bible use that historical moment as evidence to say, no, it's not really the Bible.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_02: A bunch of people just got together and uh, you know, at Hippo and Carthage in 393 and 397, and they just decided what books are the Bible.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_00: Ignoring all the things that came before.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_02: Um, ignoring now, if we want to go back, you know, not quite a thousand years, but you know, 500 BC in regarding to the authoritative acceptance of the Old Testament all the way through the early church, the first, second, third, now in the fourth century.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_02: For 400 years, this has been commonly accepted and circulated, affirmed and affirmed and affirmed by the apostles, or those that were discipled directly by the apostles, or that second generation of those that were discipled directly by those that were discipled by the apostles who were fulfilling the Great Commission.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, it just be aware of that ammunition that people are trying to use.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_02: And I I think it's a straw man argument, truthfully.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_02: Let's just go, let's just look at this.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_02: I think councils are so important, uh, and they have been historically to give clarity and unity.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, out of that comes confessions and creeds, and there's so much value.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_02: In fact, uh I'll drop in a little promo.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, in our fall series on Wednesday nights, one of our Wednesday night classes is going to be just studying the history of creeds and confessions, absolutely, why they matter and all that kind of stuff.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_02: So uh we could go on and on.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_02: You can click into the link on the show notes about understanding what some of that means.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_02: But I just think those are examples of the importance of us doing some research, strengthening our faith that hopefully will strengthen in some confidence.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_02: And at the at the end of the day, we're trying to get to the place that we can, okay, why do I trust my Bible?
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_02: Obviously, because Jesus rose from the dead, because Jesus, uh, we just we just quoted from Luke, Jesus validated and he treated scriptures as the very Word of God.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_02: What what are some other reasons or ways that you would answer that question?
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_02: Like, why do I trust my Bible?
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I I I think when you look at all the kind of evidence that we just talked about, um I the amount of people uh before us who have built their lives, dedicated their lives, gave their lives over, um overwhelmingly evidence of there's something about this that has to be true.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_00: There's something about this, and when when you look at the person and I think this all goes back to the person of Jesus, where um as as I'm sitting here thinking, you know, I said previously nobody will die for a lie.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_00: Well, in some ways, if someone believes it to be true, they'll die for it.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_00: That doesn't make it true.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_00: That's true.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_00: But when you look when you when so like that alone is not enough.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_00: When you go back to the person of Jesus, Jesus is the only man that came back from from the dead.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_00: Jesus is the only person where he was able to say something and able to back it up.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um, all of the other religious leaders, they're rotting in the grave.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_00: Uh they're they not come back.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_00: Things that they have said that turned out to be not not to be true.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think when you look at this why do I trust my Bible, um, it it goes back to the person of Jesus.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_00: He did everything that he said.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_00: So if he's done if he's done the hardest things, then then all the things that he has said we can trust to be true.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_00: We could trust and kind of take it to the bank.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um and so I think I think that is kind of that bedrock, unshaking um Jesus will accomplish all that he has set out to do.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um in us throughout the world, his kingdom will come.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_00: And there will be one day where um all of this debate, all of these other ideas are not going to be a thing anymore.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, his kingdom is gonna be fully and finally here.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, yes, and amen.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_02: So building off of that, why why then can I trust the Bible?
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_02: A, because of who Jesus is and because of what he has done.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_02: Also, because of the genuine encounter then I have had with the living word that ultimately helps me have a genuine encounter with the risen Christ.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_02: Coming out of that, then um I I can look at, because I just gave some what I would call scholarly evidence that pointed back to what the apostles in the early church did.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_02: And here's why I think that matters.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_02: We've in in the last couple of sermons, uh, throughout our whole journey of Mark, we've seen time and time again the reluctant, almost in hindsight, stupidity is this too strong of a word of the disciples?
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_02: Like, how are you missing this?
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_02: And even even after Jesus had promised them so much, toward the end of Mark, the frequency, Mary Magdalene goes and tells, and they still didn't believe.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_02: The the two witnesses on the road to Emmaus, they go and tell, and they still didn't believe.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_02: So at some point, through the encounters that the resurrected Christ had with his disciples and all these other witnesses, at some point, those encounters with the resurrected Christ flip the switch from any disbelief to reckless abandon for him.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_02: And that then led them to this fulfillment of the mandate to go into all the world and preach the gospels to the point that they died for it.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_02: That's right.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_02: So even for us, through our through our faith, through our questions, not avoiding them, the prayer is that we have the same response.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_02: Like we have genuinely encountered the risen Christ through his word, and it it unlocks for us this such deep, compelling motivation.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_02: Like I can't not obey him, and I can't not trust him, and I can't not tell others about him.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um that's the motivation to encounter the risen Christ that brings us to our knees every morning.
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_00: Like we have to be in his word because that's how he chose to reveal himself.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so yeah, that's why being in being a student of the word on a daily basis and telling others what we're learning, being that mouthpiece in that regard is is so important in our life.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_02: I I think then to kind of start wrapping up today, I think out of that, um, I think we got to learn to build our confidence in scripture ultimately on the on the character of God, on the resurrection of Christ, on the witness of the apostles, on the clarity of the gospel, on the faithful preservation of the text.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um because if our faith rests on the resurrected Christ who speaks through his word, even when I come to some footnote like we see in Mark 16, it becomes an occasion to trust more deeply.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_02: Um so I I think I think there's I hope there's some encouragement of that.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_02: Here's here's what I want us to follow through.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_02: Um we'll drop in the show notes today that that link to that um reference that I mentioned to the article in um from the Liberty University website.
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_02: I think also you you just made a comment about then the importance of our pursuit and study of scripture.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe we'll drop a note.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_02: We've got a it's kind of a class that we did several years back that's record recorded on the website because a lot of people are like, I don't even know how to study the scripture.
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_02: Well, we we want let's provide some handlebars for that.
• 43:23
  SPEAKER_02: And so that may be something you know, explore in the show notes to kind of dig more deeply into that.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_02: But um anyway, thank you for the time today.
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_02: Uh it's been a pleasure.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you for your willingness to share your journey in the testimony of your faith and also helping us see more reliable reasons on why we can trust scripture.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_02: Again, uh, this is episode three of four, so we got another one to come.
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_02: Here's some things that you can do for us.
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, be on the lookout for the next episode to drop.
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_02: Go ahead and click like, subscribe, follow, share this with your friends, uh, leave a review for us.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_02: That would be helpful and make it possible.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_02: For more people to find it.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_02: In our next episode that'll kind of close out the series, we're actually going to kind of get more in the weeds than real practically, like on we follow the narrative of the manuscripts, the textual variants, the canon.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_02: Now we're going to leapfrog into modern times of like Bible translations.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_02: Like many people ask, like, what translation should I use?
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_02: Uh what translation do you preach from and why?
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_02: How do I choose one without being cynical or confused?
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_02: And so that's where we're headed next.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so we hope you'll look forward to that and uh be a part of that journey as we follow through.
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_02: So uh Philip, we want to end our episode.
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_02: We're still kind of establishing this new, you know, Brother Don well.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so in honor of him, we're trying to end every episode kind of in the way that he would humorously end some meetings or funerals or summer.
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_02: And so uh, you want to close us out today?
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_02: Bye.