Latest / The Reverse Aging Club with Meredith Oke / 169: The Body's Light That We Can't See: What Your Biophotons Reveal About Your Health

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169: The Body's Light That We Can't See: What Your Biophotons Reveal About Your Health · The Reverse Aging Club with Meredith Oke

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  Typical nutrition the person has, the skin type, particular diseases also
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  are affecting peripheral blood flow. This is all affecting it. So
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  what we need to build, and that's our grand, I would say, plan for
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  upcoming 10 to 15 years, is to build a
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  global human biophoton atlas,
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  as we call it. Welcome to the QVC Podcast, where we explore
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  exciting new paradigms that have a meaningful impact on
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  our day-to-day lives. I'm your host, Meredith Oak.
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  Let's keep the conversation going. Join us in our free community by
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  visiting qbcpod.com. That's
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  qbcpod.com. And let's see where the quantum
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  superhighway takes us next. It is just so
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  wild what our bodies do when you really start digging into
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  health through the lens of light. And our guest today, we
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  go super deep into biophoton emissions.
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  What are biophoton emissions? Well, our bodies are
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  emitting light. I don't mean that as a metaphor. I
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  mean, literally, we are— there is light
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  coming out of our cells. And I don't mean like our body heat that would
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  be picked up by like night vision goggles. I mean
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  photons, like actual light, or as it
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  has now been renamed biological
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  autoluminescence. So my guest today is Michal
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  Sifra. He runs a lab in Prague that is deep
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  into the weeds studying biophotonic emissions, right?
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  Biological autoluminescence. Stay through the podcast. He
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  gives a big announcement about how all of you,
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  yes, all of you can participate in this
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  biophotonic research. It is his dream to
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  democratize it, which of course lines up perfectly with
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  the mission at the Institute of Applied Quantum Biology to
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  start sourcing data from the field, from actual
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  practitioners who are out there in the weeds putting all the research together
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  in real life with real people and all the beautiful mess that
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  that entails and all of the gold wisdom and
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  information that is buried in all of your practices,
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  all of your visits to your clinician, health coach,
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  integrative physician. So I think
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  the future is finding ways to pull
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  data from those interactions. And
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  Michal Sifra has a really, really crazy cool project
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  that he's looking to launch that he will tell us about partway
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  through the episode. So stay tuned for that. He is, just a
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  little background, an electromagnetic biophysicist and team
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  leader of the Bioelectrodynamics research team at the
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  Institute of Photonics and Electronics of the Czech
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  Academy of Sciences in Prague. His
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  earliest mentor was someone that the light nerds
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  probably have heard of, and that was
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  Professor Fitzalbert Popp, was one of his early
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  undergrad mentors, and his thesis advisor was none other
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  than Roland van Wyck. So Michal
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  is deep into the absolute latest research
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  of our body's ability to create
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  and give off light. It's crazy, crazy fun, cool
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  stuff. And I know you're going to love it. And if you
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  want to get certified in applying these
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  principles, and there will be principles of biophotonic emissions to be
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  applied in clinical practice very soon, keep listening.
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  Do go to qbcpod.com and click on Institute to and fill out the application and
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  set up a clarity call. We'd love to have you in there. It is a
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  no-pressure program. We have tons of support, tons of
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  references, self-paced plus live
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  Q&As with faculty members for an ongoing period
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  of time, as long as you want. You know, as long as you stay a
• 4:00
  member of the QVC community, you're actually inside of there from the
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  moment that you register. And even after you get certified, you
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  can stay inside and access everything, including the calls. We want
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  this community to be as cohesive and growth-oriented
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  and research-oriented as possible. So come on
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  in, jump in, go to qbcpod.com and click on Institute.
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  Okay. And also visit our friends at boncharge.com. We wanna
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  take care of our biology. As Professor talks
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  about, there are biophotonic ways to tell
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  when our bodies are out of balance and stressed and aging badly. It's also cool.
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  So Take care of yourself now with some of the amazing tools at
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  boncharge.com and make sure you
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  engage with your light by downloading the My Circadian
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  app. Practitioners, there's a practitioner bundle. You're
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  gonna wanna go order that. And then when you sign up a new client, they
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  automatically get access to the app. You give them one of your
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  codes that you buy in the bundle, and then they have something real and
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  tangible to play with. They have the lux meter, they have
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  sunset times, the sunrise times, the vitamin
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  D calculator, like all the fun stuff that will make circadian
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  regulation a real thing for them and probably a little bit fun because it's a
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  fun app to use. Okay, everybody, thank
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  you for being here. You are a joy to be around and enjoy
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  my conversation with Professor Sifra. All right,
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  Michal Sifra, welcome to the Quantum Biology
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  Collective. Podcast. So looking forward to this conversation.
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  All right, so we're going to talk about a really interesting, fun
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  topic today that our audience is familiar with, but not
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  deeply. And I'd love to get into it, which is
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  biophotonic emissions. So before you
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  sort of explain like what that is, could you give us a
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  little background about what you do and how you ended up in this
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  very cutting-edge field. Absolutely.
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  I am— thanks, first of all, thank you very much for inviting me to speak
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  about, well, all this topic, which is, I would say, the
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  closest to my, um, heart, scientific heart. It's actually
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  the research of human photon emission or biophoton emission
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  is the thing which got me to the science in the first place. So
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  I can tell you a bit of the actually personal story. Which is
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  exactly about how I got to the research of this topic. I was
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  reading certain journals, which are more about the philosophy, a bit
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  of spirituality, when I was an undergrad student in the university, and I was
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  studying biomedical engineering. I was always wondering how I
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  can build, you know, understand new technologies and devices, how to help the
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  people, especially with any health issues potentially, or preventing them.
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  And in that, in the journal, I read about
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  people's kind of popular story about the fact that
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  human body emits light. And I say, wow, that's weird. How is that
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  possible? Right? Because nobody told me that about the university and biomedical engineering
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  courses. So I decided to
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  explore it myself. So I arranged contact with
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  Professor Fritz Albert Popp, who is one of the founders of the photon
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  field. And I arranged them to meet at a
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  conference and I just took him for lunch. He was a bit
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  of not busy and I said, hey, I would like to explore this more. So
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  how can we do that? And he was a very generous person. I can say
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  later on, I have a lot of, let's say, different opinions than he
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  had on this field of research, but he was always a very generous person
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  and invited me to come to this Institute of International Institute of
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  Biophysics, as they call it, in Neuss in Western Germany. And I
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  calculated, calculated there my, my internship, which I had in
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  Germany because I studied originally in Slovakia in my home country. And there
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  suddenly I find myself surrounded by the people like probably you and who are very
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  enthusiastic, going definitely beyond the edge of what is standard
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  science, I would say. And they were all very interested to,
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  to understand this phenomena. So this is how, how it, I go
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  to the science there and I slept there in a darkroom measuring how I
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  shine during the night over the time. And it was my master's thesis. And it
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  was a lot of fun. And it's, I still like to make this fun research.
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  And I learned a lot over last, it's almost 20 years
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  now. So currently I'm a team leader of the
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  bioelectrodynamics research team at the Institute of
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  Photonics and Electronics of the Czech Academy of Sciences. And we
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  are exploring fundamental understanding of the
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  field biomatter interaction. So. How external
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  fields affect the biology on a molecular and
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  cellular level, especially, and how
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  biomaterial, active biomaterials, organisms generate their
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  field. So this is what we do in our research. I love that
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  you're looking at how the environment
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  affects our biology because that's, I think, something
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  that is becoming more and more important to people. We've looked you know,
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  we focus so much on our food and our fitness and
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  our supplements and our prescriptions,
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  but then we don't necessarily think about where in the world
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  we're putting our biology and what is around us that is affecting it.
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  So is that sort of what your team is looking to understand
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  partially? We are trying to understand the, how we call it,
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  well, physical mechanisms of these interactions. So,
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  Uh, in broader research field of what you kind of called
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  bioelectromagnetics, that's the research
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  field or scientific field which exactly deals the
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  questions how electromagnetic fields affect
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  biology from the smallest scale, from the molecules to the ecosystems.
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  So that's bioelectromagnetics. By the way, I, I'm
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  privileged to be on a communication committee of the BioEM Society.
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  However, this is not my role today, just to put it apart.
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  There is a wonderful conference for if anyone wants to dive into
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  that. We'll put the link to that in the show notes as well. So there
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  indeed, people are since the time
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  mankind started to use technologies using electromagnetism,
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  electricity. So being exposed since already
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  100 years to the increasing degree of electromagnetic
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  waves, microwaves, which we all use for wireless communication
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  and other purposes. People have been interested to what extent this can be affecting
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  the health. I would say the consensus in the community based on nearly tens of
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  thousands of studies is that it indeed can be
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  considered extremely mild stressor, but you
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  know, to the same level as drinking too much caffeine. For example, radiofrequency
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  radiation is categorized as possibly carcinogenic. But this
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  is all well known public, but in the same level,
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  in the same category is just same as the caffeine. So
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  drinking too much coffee, for example, I like the coffee, by the way, I have
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  nothing against caffeine. So as I have nothing against the wireless
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  communication, if it's done properly. So yeah, so this is
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  put it to the proper level. So it's categorized as something
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  possibly carcinogenic because there are some studies which show that.
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  However, you know, Everything can be carcinogenic if you just do too much of
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  it. And the public health levels are set
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  to protect us against, you know, vast majority
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  of potential risks. So yeah, this is the consensus of the community,
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  consensus of the biostimulus community. Of course, you can find some
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  researchers, I would say it's one of the hundred who will tell you that this
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  is not enough. You should be protecting more and other stuff, but it's, I'm, you
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  know, I kind of weigh, I'm I'm personally more— how I perceive the,
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  let's say, risk of being exposed by the external electromagnetic technologies
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  is somewhere on a level that is just one of the millions of the stressors
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  we are exposed to. And this happens to be generated by the humans. It's not
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  a natural stressor. Okay. So you're talking about like
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  Wi-Fi radiation, cell towers, things like that. So in your
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  opinion, it is affecting our biology, but not to the level that we
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  should be deeply deeply concerned. Yes. I mean, this is, this is,
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  I would say, not only my opinion. This is, uh, I would say this is
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  my opinion as well, but it's opinion of the vast majority of the scientists. I
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  would say this consensus in the bioelectromagnetics community. But I can say what can
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  be much more harmful is actually believing is doing something wrong to you. The effect
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  of nocebo is extremely
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  strong, and this is well known and proved. So for people who
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  believe electromagnetic radiation is doing some harm for them, they could
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  physically get harmed while not even being
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  exposed because they believe it's something out there. So the
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  psychology is extremely powerful and has to be carefully, I would say, separated. And
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  it's very difficult in studies from actual physical effects of
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  electromagnetic fields or any other, say, subtle fields. I would, I fully
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  agree. Yes. That the psychological fear, the constant worry,
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  panic is definitely going to have a
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  detrimental effect. And potentially more of
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  a detrimental effect than the actual electromagnetic fields themselves.
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  That's possible. That's in some, I would say, population, this is actually a real risk,
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  I would say. And it's actually happening, I would say. Yes, that's true. I
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  mean, we all definitely, I would say, have
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  a slightly, take a slightly more cautious view
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  of the harms that could possibly be caused.
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  However, not to the point of freaking out. It's it's sort of like we
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  turn our Wi-Fi off at night when, you know, when we go to bed.
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  And I think most people would choose not to live next to a cell
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  tower if they could avoid it, but it's not an
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  overriding panic. Yeah, I think, I think it's, it's reasonable
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  approach, of course. Okay. Of course, you know,
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  as a, if I may add just a bit of it, of course that,
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  uh, science is always open, right? So With best of our
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  understanding of this topic, we can say that
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  they are safely protected. However,
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  we never know what will be there in the long run. And that's with any
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  knowledge, right? So, yeah, I think knowledge might change, but
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  it's very unlikely it will be dramatic change to a huge
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  accumulation of knowledge which you have so far, at least in this level of
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  the, let's say, protection. Of the
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  population against, you know, unwanted effects of electromagnetic field.
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  So there are some small probability something very dramatic would happen. I would say it
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  is completely overturned our understanding, but it seems to be unlikely based on
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  the, you know, yeah, tens of thousands of the studies
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  have been researchers all over the world in the last 60 years really looking into
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  that. I mean, there are people who take a more— who take
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  a different view. And there are also, I think, people who are more
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  affected than others. Like you could have 20 people be fine, but
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  one person gets knocked out by the same level, which
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  to my knowledge is still a bit of a mystery as to why some people
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  are so much more sensitive than others.
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  Maybe, maybe a mystery that will get solved soon with all of the science that's
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  unraveling. Okay, so that's, those are the bioelectromagnetic
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  fields. That we are most
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  commonly exposed to that you talk about,
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  that you, and that's what you consider when you're talking about like the environment that
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  we're in. Is there anything else from your perspective,
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  like when you're describing how our, how our biology
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  interacts with the environment? Yeah, absolutely. So actually what
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  we do in our research team, and that's what I, I think
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  it's, uh, even more fun, actually finding
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  the conditions where the fields are actually doing a strong effect.
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  I mean, robust. Yeah, that's what we are trying. That's
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  actually what I'm most interested in. So what I would say, it seems so
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  far it's absolutely very important research field. We need to be
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  clear to clarify any concern of the, of the, of the
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  societies about this technology. That's very clear. Now,
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  honestly speaking, I think, uh, but this is not my cup of coffee. I really
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  like to find, you know, This is how it looks like. There is like hundreds
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  of scientists doing this research of the safety. And most of the things they are
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  finding out, negative, negative results, negative results means there is no effect.
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  So it's actually good. But then I would like to find the conditions at which
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  electromagnetic fields do something to the biology and hopefully for benefit of
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  humankind. So that's what we are doing in our research team. So there,
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  well, physically, obvious ways to go is to
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  deliver fields which are strong enough to do
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  something with the molecular structure or cells. And
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  that's actually a huge booming field. There is a lot of applications
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  in, in even in what you would call the mainstream medicine,
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  but particularly, for example, so the so-called huge
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  research field of the pulsed electric field where
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  the effects are non-thermal. So there is no effectively no
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  or very little heating, let's say, of the tissue or
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  organism, but the biological effects
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  are extremely strong. And that's what's being used
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  in therapy, for example. In a, I would say, most
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  striking way, it is being used just to ablate the tissue. You want to
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  remove parts of the tissue, but without heating or cooling it. It's called
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  pulsed field ablation. It's a booming field in, especially in
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  interventional cardiology. But then there are more subtle
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  levels of this because you can use also piezoelectric fields to modulate biology without
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  actually— not for the purpose of killing the cells, but actually to modulate their
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  function. Because what we all know, and this is not disputed, it's also well accepted,
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  that cells use electrical
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  signaling. So basically we run on bioelectricity in terms of signaling. Of
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  course, it all goes hand in hand with the chemistry. So it's a very complex
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  bioelectrochemistry which is running our biology. Energetics and so on.
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  This is something very well established. So this is actually, I would say, very
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  interesting how to modulate, let's say, cellular scale and
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  organism scale bioelectricity for regeneration and so on. For
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  example, Michael Levin, you might guess, know very well,
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  very famous professor for Tufts University, who is
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  really an expert, I would say, visionary in bioelectricity, where he was able
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  to show you can regenerate part of the lost, say,
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  parts of the organisms just by reconstructing the real
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  electric blueprint of the tissues. So this is a very fascinating field.
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  So we are close to that, but going deeper to the
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  sub-solar and molecular scale.
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  Fascinating. Okay. This is
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  such interesting stuff. And I'm— it's really heartening to hear
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  about all of the research that's being done that could give us an
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  alternative to just the sort of chemical model of treating
• 18:55
  illness. And as you also said, maintaining optimal
• 18:59
  health, that would be nice. That would be good too. Okay. So getting back
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  to the biophoton emissions, you mentioned for
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  your thesis paper, you slept in a dark room and measured the
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  light coming out of your body. Could you tell us how you did that? Oh,
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  it was so much fun. You know, I was a bit younger. It was 20
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  years ago. And the first thing
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  I would become immediately interested for some reason I don't know really why
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  I was always interested, you know, in internal processes and
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  biochronology. So cycles of the biology.
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  And my question, research question for my thesis was actually, I was so
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  privileged I could coin it myself. I just came with the idea and the supervisor
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  said, okay, let's do that. It's very liberal supervisor. It
• 19:40
  was Professor Roland van Wyk. I had to really acknowledge him. He was
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  so liberal. Roland van Wyk? Yes, exactly. He was
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  your, he was your supervisor? Right. Right. Okay. Yes.
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  Our audience might know him as well. That's great. Okay.
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  So anyway, so my thesis was, the research question was, how
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  does the biophoton emission from a human
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  body varies over time? Particularly I was targeting
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  periods of few hours, basically, or circadian rhythms, the daily
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  rhythms. So my experiments were basically
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  every one, every hour or every second hour. I
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  had to go to the darkroom and I was mostly measuring
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  the standard spots which are easily accessible, is the palms and
• 20:24
  dorsal parts of both hands. So, okay. And
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  the fun started when I wanted to do it, you know, 24 hours
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  or 48 hours. So I was actually sleeping in a darkroom. There was a bed
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  and a colleague of mine, she was so kind that she
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  was waking up every 2 hours just to run the measurement.
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  The operation station was out of the darkroom, just an only— Okay.
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  So did you have to put your hands on a machine?
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  Or how was it? It was dark enough. And I only— there was single-channel detection
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  at that time. We are now building something much more fancier and faster.
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  At that time, it was a single-channel detector which could be moved. So I had
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  just put the hand under the detector. It was vertically, basically
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  hanging from the ceiling. And I put my hand
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  there. There, measurement was run. Again, 3 minutes on the other side,
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  and I did it for, let's say, both hands, both sides, and
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  then I fell back to sleep. So that was quite
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  fun to do that. So I collected a lot of interesting data and I published
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  it very early when I started my, when I finished my master's. That was my
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  first, one of my first papers. So that is how I got to this field.
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  And it's actually now we are, it's really, you know,
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  experiencing a new boom, I would say, this field. I can tell later on about
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  what we are up Thank you. Okay. Yes.
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  And so what exactly are
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  biophoton emissions? So most people, myself
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  included, were surprised to learn
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  that our bodies are emitting light. That seemed, it's
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  like, wait, what? We are? Most people don't know
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  that. I learned that, you know, quite recently. So,
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  Wow. Like, how is that possible? What is it? What's going on there? So of
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  course, when you hear it for a first time without any scientific background, or even
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  having scientific background, you would get impression of something like aura-like stuff,
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  you know, some something glowing around the body, which is known in philosophy
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  since thousands of years, right?
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  So by experiencing— but the people who are
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  experiencing could see some light around the body, and by what is measured by
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  the technology, these are two different things
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  to my understanding. Okay. Because what we
• 22:36
  are, what biophotons, it's, you know, it's one of the terminology we prefer to
• 22:40
  call it biological autoluminescence or
• 22:43
  biological autochemiluminescence. I can explain details later.
• 22:47
  It comes from the nature phenomenon.
• 22:51
  This is the light which physically is being emitted directly from
• 22:54
  the object. So if you make a photo, you don't see any light
• 22:58
  around the object, it's directly coming from the object. So basically
• 23:02
  the visual source, basically
• 23:06
  the light of sight is really, you see exactly copies the shape of the object.
• 23:09
  If you put the hand under the sensitive cameras, one of the heavy
• 23:13
  in our institute, you will see exactly the same shape of the light
• 23:17
  with some interesting details because there is a spatial, there's some spatial property.
• 23:21
  So it's light is not always completely homogeneous intensity. There are some spots which
• 23:24
  shine brighter than the others. Can, may or may not.
• 23:28
  So it is a physical light. You are indeed detecting
• 23:31
  photons, so particles of light in the range of
• 23:35
  what you would call visible range.
• 23:39
  But because there is so little of these photons, we cannot
• 23:42
  see them with naked eye. And I tried very hard, I can tell you.
• 23:46
  When I was still younger, I was sitting in a darkroom for a lot of
• 23:49
  time, acclimating my eyes. You really cannot see that. Oh, I could not. And most
• 23:52
  of the people, all the people who came there, could not. We thought we
• 23:56
  can because we know where our limbs are, but then you have to—
• 24:00
  somebody else was sitting there and you were asked, where
• 24:03
  is this? Where is his or her hand? You cannot say. You have impression, you
• 24:07
  know, because you know where your arms are, but you can't really see this light.
• 24:10
  So it's more where we can more tell where it is by the— through
• 24:14
  a spatial recognition, but the naked eye cannot see
• 24:17
  these emissions. Yes. And Do you need like a,
• 24:21
  you, I would imagine a very specific type of technical
• 24:25
  camera that's able to capture. You need very sensitive detectors to do that.
• 24:29
  However, they are not that unavailable. I will tell about it. We
• 24:33
  have a project which is supposed to democratize and spread this technology to the world
• 24:37
  because it's expensive. Yes. I will talk about it later. It's
• 24:40
  something I'm passionate about. All right. Once, say a few months. So yes. So
• 24:44
  to go back to the answer. So it is a physical light emitted.
• 24:48
  So it's nothing, uh, I would say going out of the standard
• 24:52
  physics. It's really— we are perfectly sure, and it's
• 24:56
  not my opinion, it's— there is a community which knows this phenomenon. So
• 25:00
  if you encounter a skeptic, they're saying this is not
• 25:04
  a true phenomenon, he's just not educated. So I was already having this
• 25:07
  discussion, and it's sometimes fun to see that some people are very smart by their
• 25:11
  education just because they raises them some, you know,
• 25:15
  something esoteric, they rather, you know, banish this idea
• 25:19
  completely without actually going to study what is out there in the
• 25:23
  literature, because there's a lot of data in the literature which shows this is really
• 25:26
  the emission in the visible range. So it's not just
• 25:30
  some thermal emission because of the fact that
• 25:33
  the bodies have certain, emit certain heat. This
• 25:37
  is really coming from as, you know, visible
• 25:41
  wavelengths. Okay. So it's not— the light is not generated
• 25:45
  by heat. It is visible light that can be picked up if
• 25:49
  you have a sensitive enough instrument. Exactly. And yet
• 25:53
  I do— yeah, it can be sometimes
• 25:57
  dismissed by people because it's a bit of a not
• 26:00
  a far step into more esoteric
• 26:04
  ideas. That's one thought. Once you start talking about the body giving off
• 26:07
  light. And then because you did mention that you were
• 26:11
  inspired to take a scientific
• 26:15
  view to all of this by reading spiritual literature.
• 26:19
  So have those ideas come
• 26:23
  together for you? I do, I understand that you are deeply
• 26:27
  rigorous in the scientific method.
• 26:31
  But also has that in any way informed
• 26:35
  your spiritual and philosophical views? Actually,
• 26:40
  I thought about it for some time, and in certain years when I was young,
• 26:44
  it did. But now I kind of see it's different than I thought,
• 26:47
  and it's a development. So in a way, you know, I can tell you my
• 26:51
  personal motivation in my life and in my research is really understanding
• 26:55
  of interaction, I would say, of the subtle
• 27:00
  fields and the matter, particularly biomatter. And then when I translate it
• 27:03
  to physics, it's interaction between electromagnetic fields
• 27:07
  and the materials, soft matter,
• 27:10
  biological matter. Because that's what something, you know, is
• 27:15
  researchable. And of course we can think
• 27:18
  beyond the standard physics, metaphysics, but that's, you
• 27:22
  know, much more difficult to work it. So I was being, I was a
• 27:25
  bit pragmatic and I decided, okay, I want to do rigorous research. I want to
• 27:29
  use scientific methods to understand interaction between the
• 27:32
  fields and the biomatter. And this is a very clear
• 27:36
  choice where you go. It's electromagnetic field because it's rather the
• 27:39
  subtlest you can get and still physically measurable. And, you know,
• 27:43
  everybody using it, just using your phone. So it's something real
• 27:47
  and everybody takes it for granted. So you can, you know, we can really study
• 27:51
  that quantitatively. Sometimes I like to make jokes about my surname,
• 27:55
  you know, it's Cifra, which means in certain languages a number or a
• 27:58
  digit. And I make these jokes that I like to be, like to be
• 28:02
  quantitative. Right. So yes.
• 28:05
  Answering that, um, there is, I would say inner drive, my inner
• 28:09
  motivation is really deep, goes beyond the rational.
• 28:13
  But what I really consider important is to keep the
• 28:16
  scientific methods. So to open up this
• 28:20
  phenomenon to broader scientific community, because that's what I believe is
• 28:24
  my way how to make an impact. Right.
• 28:28
  And where would you say things are at with that in terms
• 28:32
  of this work? And I'm going to use the word that you
• 28:36
  prefer over biophoton emission. You used
• 28:39
  biological autoluminescence.
• 28:43
  Correct. Okay. Where is
• 28:46
  biological autoluminescence in terms of the— why,
• 28:50
  you know, your lab is deeply focused on it and you've mentioned there are many
• 28:53
  others. Where does it sort of fit into the wider
• 28:57
  field and how does it relate to
• 29:00
  biophysics? I like to take perspective of, as you mentioned,
• 29:03
  electromagnetic perspective of how the organisms
• 29:07
  work. So it's well established that from
• 29:11
  the solar level, from even the simplest organism, there are membrane
• 29:15
  structures in the cells which use
• 29:18
  electricity to usually convert the energy or generate certain
• 29:22
  chemistry in it for the life. So it's, you know, the electricity there is
• 29:25
  there from the smallest, let's say, units of life, the cells.
• 29:29
  And then higher organisms developed, developed capability to
• 29:33
  harness electricity to, to make movements.
• 29:36
  So using musculoskeletal systems, and also for
• 29:40
  signaling, hence processing information. So all
• 29:44
  the other neurology and electrophysiology related to
• 29:47
  higher brain functions, this all uses electricity.
• 29:52
  Now I took your perspective of, let's say, physicist or engineer. So
• 29:56
  you can speak of the frequencies or frequency bands. So
• 30:00
  this classical, well-accepted electrical activity in those
• 30:03
  cells and certain organs is reaching
• 30:07
  in frequencies usually up to a few kilohertz or tens
• 30:11
  of the kilohertz, means, you know, thousands or tens of thousands of cycles
• 30:14
  per second. But in physics, we know that,
• 30:19
  well, there is much broader frequency range of the
• 30:22
  electromagnetic spectrum which exists there. So my
• 30:26
  supervisor here in Prague, he was already asking the
• 30:29
  question, so is there any
• 30:32
  biophysical activity in the cells which generates
• 30:36
  the much higher frequencies than those which are currently
• 30:40
  well known in the textbooks, and they are studied by a huge amount of people.
• 30:43
  So he was asking, for example, do cells generate
• 30:47
  microwaves? Do they emit microwaves not just because they are warm,
• 30:51
  but because there is certain activity which corresponds to these frequencies or
• 30:54
  fluctuations? And People have been asking, do
• 30:59
  cells and organisms emit different frequencies of
• 31:02
  electromagnetic field? And when you go like this through all the electromagnetic spectrum, you will
• 31:05
  end up also in the optical range,
• 31:09
  where we are speaking about emission of the light. So from this
• 31:13
  perspective, there are basically— I have one of the slides in my presentation where I
• 31:17
  show the spectrum, electromagnetic spectrum, and see this is well known, this is a little
• 31:20
  bit known, and here is a gap. So this bit
• 31:24
  known is exactly these biological autoluminescence. So when I, I took this
• 31:28
  perspective, basically it's kind of a, what I call electromagnetic
• 31:32
  biophysics. Also, I sometimes tend to call myself, and people ask
• 31:35
  about my profession, I say I'm electromagnetic biophysicist,
• 31:39
  basically combining biophysics from the electromagnetic perspective.
• 31:43
  And so this is how it fits the physics, uh, engineering or physical
• 31:47
  perspective. So there is different frequencies life
• 31:51
  uses. I mean, now really speaking about electric, electromagnetic frequencies life uses
• 31:54
  for its operation, and some of them are well described, some of them
• 31:58
  are not well described, some of them are unknown and maybe non-existent. We
• 32:02
  just don't have data, much data to actually say something about that.
• 32:06
  So this is how it fits to, let's say, physics, biophysics perspective,
• 32:10
  the phenomenon of biological out-of-human essence. So it's just
• 32:14
  another frequencies which happen to be
• 32:17
  perceived by us as light. And
• 32:21
  yeah, fun fact is that any organism emits light
• 32:24
  because of it contains chemistry, which is
• 32:28
  very general. It's oxidative chemistry which generates
• 32:32
  this light, well, by so-called chemiexcitation or
• 32:35
  chemically. So this is well established how phenomenon,
• 32:39
  let's say mechanism, how biological luminescence or biophotons is
• 32:43
  generated. Okay. And so that's all living systems, not
• 32:46
  just humans that generate this light. I should make a side
• 32:50
  note. It's important, actually, all organic systems, even the non-living.
• 32:54
  If there is a— you can just take a piece of butter or oil.
• 32:58
  When it's in contact with oxygen, or even when
• 33:02
  you seal the bottle, there is still some oxygen before it gets consumed. You
• 33:06
  know when things get really rancid, yellowish?
• 33:09
  Let's say, you know, the really natural butter sits,
• 33:13
  then it gets to become yellowish after a long time. So this is oxidation.
• 33:17
  This oxidation leads to emission of light as
• 33:21
  well. So it's all organic, basically, materials when they are in contact with
• 33:25
  oxygen, especially some
• 33:28
  reactive forms of oxygen and other species, they—
• 33:32
  one of the reactions which is taking place also leading to emission
• 33:36
  of light. However, in living systems, because
• 33:40
  these reactions are controlled and regulated,
• 33:43
  then also this light emission is regulated in a way.
• 33:47
  So this is what makes distinction between this light emission from
• 33:50
  non-living organic materials and living.
• 33:55
  Okay. So the non-living
• 33:59
  materials are giving off light through an
• 34:02
  unregulated chemical reaction. Correct. Especially organic ones.
• 34:06
  If you take inorganic material, you know, for
• 34:10
  example, metal, even plastics is a bit organic, depends on what exactly it
• 34:13
  is. It's basically also material. Plastics are organic materials. So, but
• 34:17
  especially those which are typical for biology, those materials, if they're, let's
• 34:21
  say, if something which is of the biological origin, so to say, that's best example.
• 34:25
  Can be any food basically. Even if it doesn't
• 34:28
  contain any more living cells, it Also the wood fruit does,
• 34:32
  it's still, even if it's non-living food, it still emits light just because it
• 34:36
  just, you know, these chemical reactions are going on without any, any control.
• 34:40
  Actually, these can even emit much more light than a human. You just take a
• 34:43
  bit old olive oil, shines more than a human does per the same
• 34:47
  surface area. But it's the light is being created
• 34:51
  through a different mechanism in a, in a human than in
• 34:54
  olive oil. Oh, that's a good question. Actually, the
• 34:58
  fundamental reactions are very similar, but they are not regulated in the non-living
• 35:02
  systems while they are regulated in living systems. So what do you mean
• 35:06
  by regulated? So, you know, homeostasis, right?
• 35:10
  And, and, uh, and dynamic
• 35:14
  balance of all different aspects of, of, uh, of
• 35:18
  a procedure. So there is homeostasis in, uh, in
• 35:22
  energetics. There is homeostasis in,
• 35:25
  um, so-called oxidative stress. There is also good
• 35:29
  stress, so-called eustress, from the Greek good.
• 35:33
  So eustress is also a good stress, and there is a balance
• 35:37
  of these stresses. And on, uh, this
• 35:40
  electro-bioelectrochemical level, it's so-called reductive-oxidative
• 35:46
  homeostasis, which is being
• 35:50
  balanced so it's in favor of staying
• 35:54
  alive, so the system stays alive. So, and this
• 35:57
  redox homeostasis, this, I would say,
• 36:02
  bioelectrochemical homeostasis is the thing which is regulated,
• 36:05
  which then leads also to these photon emissions. So this is the,
• 36:09
  let's say, chemical perspective of these photon emissions, which
• 36:13
  is well accepted in the community. Okay.
• 36:17
  So that's why like the olive oil over time, that chemical reaction would cause
• 36:21
  it to go rancid. But we don't cause ourselves to go rancid.
• 36:25
  Well, in the end, there is end of everything. Or do we?
• 36:30
  It's sad news. Sorry. But yeah, yeah, we are trying to
• 36:34
  keep away from it as long as possible, right?
• 36:40
  Right. All the dirty things. So is there, have you found in your research that
• 36:44
  there are different levels of I'm
• 36:48
  just going to make sure, of biological autoluminescence
• 36:52
  depending on a person's level of health or depending on their
• 36:56
  age or depending on where they live? Like, are there,
• 36:59
  are there factors that change it? Absolutely. Absolutely. This is
• 37:03
  actually the questions. I mean, it's many questions,
• 37:07
  right? So yeah. So
• 37:10
  there is quite some literature out there. As in our lab, we've been
• 37:14
  focusing really on understanding the molecular details of that. There's
• 37:18
  also recent reviews, which I also, I sent some of the review papers. So
• 37:22
  when you go to the, to the level of, let's say,
• 37:25
  the molecular and cellular, there are hundreds of papers which are explaining
• 37:29
  how light is generated by, at these levels of
• 37:33
  organization, let's say cellular and molecular. And there are hundreds of
• 37:37
  factors being explored how they're affecting it. There is
• 37:40
  much less data when you go to the, say, organism scale. That
• 37:44
  means, you know, plant, animal, or human scale. There is
• 37:48
  a few tens of the papers or maybe several tens of the papers. So there
• 37:52
  is still some data. So yes, let's stick to something which is
• 37:55
  most important to the audience, which are the people, right? So that's the
• 37:59
  humans. So what is known out there?
• 38:03
  So the I'll just start to list as it
• 38:07
  comes to my mind. So as we age, we
• 38:11
  shine more. Our dominant
• 38:15
  hand tends to shine more. The extremities,
• 38:18
  so ends of the, you know, feet and hands, they tend to shine more than
• 38:22
  the flat surfaces. The
• 38:25
  nails, well, especially if they have no nail polish to
• 38:29
  block light, shines more. Shine more.
• 38:34
  People who are in the acute phase of some, well,
• 38:38
  even mild respiratory disease, they shine more. People who are more
• 38:42
  stressed shine more. So long-term meditators typically shine
• 38:45
  less. And this is correlated
• 38:49
  by the level of the stress markers in the blood. So the more,
• 38:53
  the higher level of these different oxidative or
• 38:57
  let's say generally speaking, stress markers in the blood, typically the higher emission
• 39:01
  is from the, from the person.
• 39:05
  In a lot of diseases which cause certain asymmetries,
• 39:09
  this is extremely pronounced. So for example, in
• 39:13
  paraplegic patients, you know, the how the body is
• 39:17
  basically paralyzed, that inactive one shines
• 39:21
  less. Physical exercise
• 39:24
  acutely increases the emission. Then
• 39:29
  there is also changes in, for
• 39:33
  diabetic patients. This is a little
• 39:37
  more not clear which direction it goes, but because
• 39:41
  all of this is usually tied rather clearly to the physiology,
• 39:45
  there are some very, like, same mysteries, like it's not clear why.
• 39:49
  For example, why nails shine more, it's not really clear why.
• 39:53
  But there are, most of the stuff is tied to physiology and to the
• 39:57
  biochemistry of the, let's say, underlying the human
• 40:00
  whole. So the older you are,
• 40:04
  the more stressed you are, the sicker you are,
• 40:08
  the more light that you're emitting. More light you are
• 40:12
  emitting, yeah. Why? Because the, well, now it is all perfectly fixed to
• 40:16
  the standard I would say explanation of this
• 40:19
  phenomenon. And that's because there is more
• 40:23
  oxidative stress accumulated over time when you are sick
• 40:27
  is increased. Well, there is some more things why when you are sick, but it's,
• 40:30
  you can elaborate on that. So all it fits the,
• 40:34
  the paradigm of increased oxidative
• 40:39
  stress, which leads to increased rate of
• 40:42
  reactions, which generate these like So this is how,
• 40:46
  yeah, this is how we understand it is. Okay.
• 40:50
  So it's related to increased levels of oxidative
• 40:54
  stress. So could
• 40:59
  measuring, and I keep looking at the
• 41:03
  paper you sent me so I say it properly, could measuring
• 41:07
  the autoluminescence be a way
• 41:11
  to have, like, could that be
• 41:15
  a marker for health? This is what we exactly plan to,
• 41:20
  to prove. So there is lots of the papers which
• 41:24
  bring some evidence to that. However, what
• 41:28
  we are trying to do in upcoming few years is actually
• 41:32
  massively expand this research. And I
• 41:36
  think now is the time to and to introduce what we are up to. Yeah.
• 41:40
  So we do believe— now, this is still belief, to be honest. It has some
• 41:44
  data to suggest, but it's still more to, I would say, large perspective. It's
• 41:47
  believed that the information which is carried by the signals can
• 41:51
  non-invasively report on health,
• 41:55
  particularly on both local and
• 41:58
  systemic oxidative stress
• 42:02
  index. That's something we want to build. So What we
• 42:06
  plan to do, and we are aware of the limitations, is
• 42:10
  the rigorous population study and massive
• 42:13
  statistics. Because what we are missing so far is
• 42:18
  have much more data on how this is related to age. There's only
• 42:22
  one paper on it, maybe two, on a few tens of the people. How is
• 42:25
  it related to lifestyle, particularly a whole style, let's say,
• 42:29
  typical nutrition the person has. The skin type.
• 42:33
  There are particular diseases also affecting
• 42:36
  peripheral blood flow. This is all affecting it. So what we need to
• 42:40
  build, and that's our grand, I would say, plan for upcoming 10 to
• 42:44
  15 years, is to build a global
• 42:47
  human biophoton atlas, as we call it.
• 42:52
  And we are just unleashing that. That sounds really cool. Could you say that
• 42:55
  again? Yes, we are going to build
• 42:59
  global human biophoton atlas. A
• 43:03
  global human biophoton atlas.
• 43:07
  Love it. I love it. Okay. Sorry. Keep going.
• 43:11
  Uh, now we are about maybe the third person out of our institute who hears
• 43:15
  that. So we are just ramping up, preparing all the
• 43:18
  branding, all the fun part of it, because we want also to gamify that.
• 43:23
  The goal is in a first 2, 3 years,
• 43:27
  we're going to do a pilot study at the institute. Well, we can bring on
• 43:30
  volunteers if you come over, build it here. We will have some bloggers coming
• 43:34
  already in April just to be on site and try it, you
• 43:38
  know, with their own hands physically. Okay, cool. So
• 43:41
  you're saying if people are interested, they can come to Prague?
• 43:45
  All right, like Roderick Lambert did, who I, how I met you.
• 43:49
  But this is bigger. This is bigger because beyond when we finish this
• 43:53
  pilot, yeah, uh, we already will be building a
• 43:56
  network. Thanks to you, we are already doing that, right, in this discussion. We
• 44:00
  want to build a worldwide network of ambassadors,
• 44:04
  and we will provide them as much as affordably as
• 44:07
  we can our systems, because we are building on our own, so we know all
• 44:11
  the technology. We can scale it, we can produce tens of any hundreds of these
• 44:14
  systems, uh, and we want to make, you know, imagine
• 44:18
  we're gonna have a website with the globe and build the spots where you
• 44:22
  can go to measure your biophoton emission. It will be fun
• 44:26
  and great. So fun. That's so fun. One of
• 44:29
  my missions in this, in along this line, is to really
• 44:33
  get this to textbooks so everybody will know who gets
• 44:37
  some, you know, education that, you know, in the school you might learn
• 44:41
  biology that, yeah, heart using uses electricity, brain uses
• 44:44
  electricity. So we should learn that organisms emit light, all of them, not
• 44:48
  only a few which we can see by naked eye. So this is the plan.
• 44:51
  And the idea is, the science idea behind that, if
• 44:55
  you increase the number of the people in the database, then
• 44:59
  you are making all the knowledge much more precise because it increases, you're
• 45:02
  increasing statistical significance. Yeah. This is how
• 45:06
  it typically works. When there are certain phenomena which you want and
• 45:10
  the effect size is not that strong, need to increase number of the n
• 45:13
  of the samples or subjects to get that. So this is idea. And
• 45:17
  we, we want to make it big. So the idea is that first few years,
• 45:21
  the few hundreds, I think I would love that within, within
• 45:25
  5 to 7 years, we go to 10,000. And my,
• 45:28
  my ultimate goal within 15 years, let's say till end of my career, to have
• 45:31
  a million subjects measured all over the world using the ambassador network and
• 45:35
  leveraging all the enthusiasm from the community. Because we will need
• 45:39
  people and of course very good logistics, which we can support, but
• 45:44
  we will need, well, we will need a global engagement in this.
• 45:48
  That's really fun and super exciting. And I love the way
• 45:52
  you're looking at it. It's like, yes, we can measure the
• 45:56
  body's electrical output and we've done so
• 45:59
  in lots of different ways and it's taught and people understand that.
• 46:03
  And so now the next step is for everyone to understand that our body emits
• 46:07
  light to that same extent. Okay. So
• 46:11
  let's talk about the Global Biophoton Atlas. So would your
• 46:14
  vision be that the machines or the
• 46:19
  cameras, what do you call them, that would measure it? Systems
• 46:22
  which are easy to scale are the photodetectors. There are particular
• 46:26
  types of them. We plan to use photomultiplier modules,
• 46:30
  which will be very robust. You can bring it out of the lab. They operate
• 46:33
  perfectly and reliably for a long time. So basically
• 46:37
  those enable the operator to, to, to
• 46:40
  basically measure the overall light from certain part. Usually
• 46:44
  it's how it looks, the system which we want to spread to the world is
• 46:48
  the, is a small black box which you can just transport anywhere you like and
• 46:51
  the detector. So what you get there is, is basically amount of
• 46:55
  light. You don't see images. You just, you see numbers,
• 46:59
  but you can put them to a certain perspective after getting some data.
• 47:03
  You can say, yeah, hey. You know, because point is that we're going to measure
• 47:07
  these light signals, like basically the amount of light you emit from
• 47:11
  certain areas which are accessible mostly hands. And
• 47:14
  we will gonna, we have to, and what's, what's very important for that, we have
• 47:18
  a, we'll have a questionnaire. We have to write all the consent because there'll be,
• 47:21
  this is, you know, I think this is a medically approved study.
• 47:25
  And based on this, we're going to build a database which
• 47:28
  will be all the data, the data will be open.,
• 47:32
  and all the ambassadors and collaborators will feed
• 47:36
  it because we'll have to have standardized procedures so it's
• 47:40
  comparable. And this will, this will bring a lot of
• 47:45
  information. And the questionnaire is very important because this will basically be
• 47:48
  repetitive twice. We were going to put direct questions. We will put you to the
• 47:51
  scale. So for example, for this age, for this gender,
• 47:55
  for this, you know, lifestyle, where you are, Do they
• 47:59
  shine too much or too little? Or, and you know,
• 48:03
  it's the number itself doesn't mean much without the context. And with this, we're
• 48:07
  going to collect the information about the context
• 48:11
  and the light information itself. So amount of light, which one
• 48:14
  person emits. That's really cool. So who,
• 48:18
  who is best set up to host
• 48:22
  these, this technology or to have to become a center for
• 48:26
  measuring the emissions? Would it need to be a hospital? Could it be
• 48:30
  a clinic of some kind? So we want to keep
• 48:34
  it open to basically anyone who is willing to follow
• 48:37
  the protocols because there is a science behind it. Of course, in
• 48:41
  your free time you can play with that. That's the fun part. But we want
• 48:44
  something back from that. And that's the data, right? Yeah.
• 48:49
  So this is still very early. First, in the first year, if you're gonna
• 48:52
  have approval for a single-center
• 48:56
  study, going multi-center study is possible, but there will
• 49:00
  be some— I think since it's— I believe it will be
• 49:03
  possible, and it shouldn't be limited to clinics or hospitals. It can be, you know,
• 49:07
  it can be, um,
• 49:10
  health coaches, consultants, longevity clinics. Great. Anyone who
• 49:14
  is interested, what we will require is that
• 49:18
  it pays back in the data. So once you get a device,
• 49:21
  for example, rented or for any conditions we'll agree on, we just
• 49:25
  want you to use it to collect as much data according to a protocol.
• 49:29
  And that's, that's how we, how we plan to do that. So we will be
• 49:32
  open even to enthusiasts, as like you said, you, if you make a deal over
• 49:36
  the good conditions, we can think of providing that. So, you
• 49:39
  know, it will help us to build a science about it. So cool. All
• 49:43
  right, everybody listening, We have
• 49:46
  many practitioners in our audience. If
• 49:50
  you would like to be a biophoton emission measurer,
• 49:53
  stay tuned. Ambassador. Ambassador. I know, I like
• 49:57
  to play with words. Yes,
• 50:00
  ambassador. Stay tuned. You will have that opportunity coming
• 50:06
  soon. Okay. So we talked
• 50:09
  about biophoton our
• 50:14
  bioluminescence emission as a marker for
• 50:18
  health. Is there anything
• 50:22
  else related to health. That. You
• 50:26
  have even theoretically thought about? Like, is the light— is
• 50:30
  this our ability to create this light doing
• 50:35
  something for us, or our ability to regulate it? Because
• 50:39
  it So if the difference between non-living and living systems is that we
• 50:43
  can regulate it, and then when we're
• 50:46
  older or unhealthy, the light goes up,
• 50:50
  does that mean our capacity to regulate has been diminished in addition
• 50:54
  to the oxidative stress? Right. That's how it works on a cell
• 50:57
  level. Indeed. Okay. Yeah. So what
• 51:01
  does it mean to
• 51:04
  our biology to be able to create and regulate this
• 51:08
  light? Like, what are the—
• 51:12
  so, um, the ability to control the underlying processes
• 51:15
  is crucial for health. So we believe it will
• 51:19
  be a marker of biological age
• 51:23
  at certain point. Okay, so not the chronological
• 51:27
  but the biological one. So that's— it's, it's— I believe it's
• 51:31
  tightly coupled
• 51:37
  to the oxidative stress and oxidative, let's say, redox
• 51:40
  homeostasis or reductive oxidative
• 51:44
  homeostasis. So definitely the capability of organism
• 51:47
  to regulate the processes which lead
• 51:51
  to this light emission is very crucial and fundamental
• 51:54
  for biology. Now there is one branch which I was
• 51:58
  always fascinated about. It'll be super speculative and you might like to hear about
• 52:02
  it. Of course I would. I love the
• 52:06
  speculative. We go beyond, let's say, the established science because it's all the fun.
• 52:10
  Talking theory now, people. We're talking theory. All right. Love it. Not
• 52:14
  theory, but— Not theory. Okay. It's not a theory yet. It's still a
• 52:18
  speculation. Okay. All right. Sorry. I know I hear
• 52:21
  from people when I— when I play with words, so like, you didn't— you
• 52:25
  didn't— no problem.
• 52:29
  Okay, so we're talking speculative. We're not even—
• 52:33
  interpretations into the theory yet. All right, got
• 52:37
  it. Um, okay, so just terminology-wise, so when you say theory, that's
• 52:43
  something, uh, just some formulations, often, often quantitative, when it's in physics
• 52:47
  or biophysics or even engineering, which
• 52:50
  predicts something which you can experimentally test. That means theory.
• 52:55
  Okay, so what you're about to tell us, we're not even at that stage yet,
• 52:58
  we're pre-theory? Uh, actually what I'm thinking
• 53:02
  about is about experiments which are very
• 53:06
  fascinating but are hard to reproduce. Okay, this is actually where most of
• 53:10
  the fun is, when you do see something in experiment, a real
• 53:14
  thing, but then and somebody else tries to do it as well, but he's
• 53:18
  not getting the same stuff. Right. And this kind of stuff
• 53:21
  is very fascinating because in this kind of experiment, which we call— they are not
• 53:25
  easily reproducible or irreproducible. This is like a gray
• 53:29
  zone of science. So there is something there. It is either just artifact that
• 53:33
  something was done wrong. So we got the interesting data, but we don't know what
• 53:36
  goes wrong or it's actually really true thing which we
• 53:40
  got., but the other one who tried to reproduce couldn't reproduce because it didn't do
• 53:43
  the stuff exactly as he or she
• 53:48
  should. So now this fun part, and this
• 53:51
  is about the, I would say,
• 53:55
  speculative suggestions that biology could use these
• 53:59
  lights to communicate. So there
• 54:02
  are quite a lot of experiments on this kind of guide that you
• 54:08
  have a say, two cell cultures which
• 54:11
  are separated mechanically. So let's say there is a flask or a dish
• 54:15
  with a cell culture here and here.
• 54:19
  And now you stress one. And then, as we know, as you stress the
• 54:22
  cell culture, you'll start to shine typically. Now, the fun part
• 54:26
  is that some works claim that some papers claim
• 54:30
  in there, and there is usually Well, some of them quite reasonable
• 54:34
  research. You don't see anything wrong methodically there. Some of the
• 54:37
  papers claim that the other culture could respond just
• 54:41
  by seeing this light from the other culture. So it means
• 54:45
  if, as if some experiments suggest
• 54:48
  that the biology could use this light for communication. This is absolutely
• 54:52
  fascinating, right? But there are many buts. And I'm one of the authors
• 54:56
  who are telling what are those. And I like to play
• 54:59
  with these ideas. We tried on our own and it's super hard. Sometimes it just
• 55:03
  doesn't work. So you cannot rely on that. So it goes beyond science
• 55:07
  sometimes because if something's irreproducible, you know,
• 55:11
  it's like, would you like to have a car which starts only every
• 55:15
  third time? So one day it doesn't start at all, another day it does. It's
• 55:18
  useless. It's not a car. I mean, it just starts randomly. So what can you
• 55:21
  make of it? So these kinds of experiments are super difficult to work with because
• 55:24
  then you just suddenly for some even long period of time, they just don't do
• 55:28
  the stuff which they used to do before, and they just don't know why is
• 55:31
  it so. There are many speculations why it could be so, why it only
• 55:35
  works sometimes, or for some people it doesn't work at all,
• 55:39
  never. So this is fun, but this is exactly this, this how these kind of
• 55:43
  experiments tend to behave. But this is in
• 55:46
  core very fascinating, and I, I guess for obvious
• 55:50
  reasons, right? The, there are claims there could be communication
• 55:53
  channels using lights. But there are many buts, right? Because this light
• 55:57
  is so extremely weak, so it's
• 56:01
  very, very hard to imagine how it could work in, um, let's say, normal
• 56:04
  light conditions. So most of the experiments are being done in
• 56:08
  dark. And one could say, yeah, it's dark inside of
• 56:12
  our bodies. Yes or no? That
• 56:17
  depends. So yeah. You know, if the cells talk to each other using
• 56:21
  light language, it could be fun. But it's still, I would say, a
• 56:24
  very open question. So this is the fun part. Yes, that is— this
• 56:28
  is really fun. Okay, so you have the experiment is you
• 56:32
  have cell cultures in two separate Petri dishes.
• 56:36
  You trigger one of them to have a stress response, which
• 56:40
  increases its light emission. And then you look to see if
• 56:43
  that light emission is received or changed in
• 56:48
  the other. And sometimes there is an
• 56:52
  observable effect and sometimes there isn't. Is that sort of
• 56:55
  what's going on? So it's like the effect is there and
• 56:59
  it's real, but without understanding how to reliably
• 57:03
  reproduce it, no one wants. To commit to them. There is this, there
• 57:07
  is this uncertainty because, you know, in every work
• 57:10
  there's always uncertainty. So even by
• 57:15
  a random, you know, playing dice, you know, how probable is that
• 57:19
  you will throw 6 10 times in a row? Very low, but
• 57:22
  it's possible, right? In the same way, you
• 57:26
  can get some effect without actually being reproducible. I mean, I
• 57:31
  would say really in a way that
• 57:35
  it's common. So some things can be just obtained by randomness. You can
• 57:39
  get some reading which is beyond the threshold saying, yes, this is an
• 57:42
  effect. Just by chance. And because of
• 57:46
  the publication bias, that means that if things don't work,
• 57:50
  usually published, that's the problem of the academic research. Not only academic research, anyone, you
• 57:54
  know, people like to be positive, right? It's human nature that you want to
• 57:58
  achieve something. It's very rare to publish, hey, this just
• 58:02
  didn't work. And because of this bias, probably most of negative
• 58:05
  results are not even published. So we don't know even what went
• 58:09
  wrong in those experiments, what they tried and why it
• 58:13
  didn't work. So the ratio of, you know, if these things worked, usually people
• 58:17
  publish that, but there might be hundreds of other papers or works which never
• 58:21
  been published and they just show there is no effect. And this
• 58:25
  is because these changes are real. This is like this publication bias
• 58:28
  is there. That's why we are so careful to say this is
• 58:32
  really true effect. Although there are some, a
• 58:35
  few dozen papers which have these findings, as I
• 58:39
  mentioned. So, and this is a very tricky area of research. I know people who
• 58:43
  ruined their careers trying to do that because
• 58:47
  just for several years, no results, no funding, out of
• 58:51
  the business. And doing good research just takes time and
• 58:54
  money because you need to eat, right? Pay rent and other
• 58:58
  stuff. So, This is very difficult. There are some extreme cases
• 59:02
  from former Soviet Union that, you know, there was academic research like, just
• 59:06
  do whatever you do, just pay a little, you just survive and do the stuff.
• 59:10
  So there was some researchers might know that. And I learned
• 59:13
  Russian just because of these crazy
• 59:17
  things. There are works from
• 59:21
  Kaznacheev who worked on this 30 years and they were doing these kind of
• 59:25
  experiments of stressing one culture and looking at another for many years
• 59:31
  every day. And they found, this is a very, this is crazy. I remember still
• 59:34
  the graph there in the Russian description. They found cycles
• 59:38
  over time when these experiments tended to work and, and
• 59:42
  the effect faded away completely. And it changed over time periodically
• 59:46
  over the year. I don't know what it was. It was
• 59:49
  linked somehow. There was a cycle to it. They were the
• 59:53
  cycle theorists. It wasn't random. But, you
• 59:57
  know, how can possibly in our research system you could do this experiment? They were
• 1:00:01
  doing 30 years. Mm-hmm. These things, you know, we have
• 1:00:05
  funding now for 2, 3 years. Yes.
• 1:00:08
  So they, they stayed at it for 30 years and they were
• 1:00:12
  able to discern a pattern. Exactly. But they have to do it every day
• 1:00:16
  or every week, a few times at least. To see a piece pattern. So I
• 1:00:19
  don't know how to trust this data. As a side note, I love
• 1:00:23
  scientists. Like who codes and does the same experiment every
• 1:00:27
  day for 30 years? Like, God bless him.
• 1:00:31
  That's amazing. Okay. You have to be a freak to do that, right? So yeah,
• 1:00:35
  I mean, you just have to be so committed and so
• 1:00:38
  focused and motivated to find out what's going to happen. It's, it's,
• 1:00:42
  I mean, it's amazing to me. But that's also a really good point
• 1:00:46
  because all of the people throwing out or not publishing because it didn't
• 1:00:49
  work, like, that's still useful information,
• 1:00:53
  is what the Russians showed. Yeah, that was still Soviet times.
• 1:00:57
  There were some very far in the East. Well, yeah.
• 1:01:00
  Isn't that something? This is like a bigger problem. It's not only about
• 1:01:04
  this research field. Any research field has huge
• 1:01:08
  positive publication bias. Yes. You don't sell negative data, which stays in the drawers
• 1:01:11
  for different reasons. Yeah. So anyway, so of
• 1:01:15
  course, and, and, you know, that does make sense, but in an
• 1:01:19
  ideal world where it was, you know, like, so those
• 1:01:22
  Russians were almost operating in an ideal world where they weren't tied to
• 1:01:26
  funding and approvals. They were just like to live in that world. But if
• 1:01:30
  you're a scientist, probably you would like, you could.
• 1:01:34
  Do this. I guess I'm just trying, I'm thinking, you know, like in an ideal,
• 1:01:38
  an ideal scientific setting, there wouldn't be these kinds of
• 1:01:42
  constraints. You could just follow your, in
• 1:01:46
  some sense, maybe your gut feeling that there's something there,
• 1:01:50
  even if in the short term you're getting mixed
• 1:01:53
  results or things that can't be reproduced or things that
• 1:01:57
  seem random. But again, since it was only a single lab who was doing these
• 1:02:00
  crazy things because just, you know, It's just, I can't imagine who else could be
• 1:02:03
  doing that, you know, for such a long time. Yeah. There's nothing to compare with
• 1:02:07
  like this. Yeah. There are some other long-term study or some other cycles, but it's
• 1:02:11
  very different fields. So could it be that
• 1:02:14
  they have certain periodic artifact in their setup over
• 1:02:18
  the years? Mm-hmm. We don't know. Could there be that over
• 1:02:22
  the time they had increased moisture in the lab, which they definitely had. It was
• 1:02:26
  no fancy lab which you control moisture and temperature, and they have leakage during certain
• 1:02:29
  time of the year. I don't know. So it's
• 1:02:33
  fascinating, but we have to be very cautious about this. You know, typically
• 1:02:37
  there's a saying, if there is extraordinary
• 1:02:41
  data, it requires extraordinary evidence. So it has to be really
• 1:02:44
  strong, very convincing. So this is exactly the type of the field. Having
• 1:02:48
  very strong claims about these kinds of things, which are rather unexpected
• 1:02:51
  based on, let's say, what physics and biophysics knows,
• 1:02:55
  it has to have very strong evidence to make
• 1:02:59
  strong claims. If I'm really trying to be careful. Okay, so
• 1:03:02
  if the, if the idea that cells can communicate with each other
• 1:03:06
  via light is
• 1:03:11
  unexpected and, uh, not accepted, what, what would need to
• 1:03:16
  be true in order for that to be, I
• 1:03:20
  think, a likely scenario? I'm on the papers I sent you.
• 1:03:23
  I've It was already my more.
• 1:03:29
  Skeptical years. It's the late, um, the one about how it— there's only a ghost
• 1:03:31
  of a chance. Exactly, that one. Yeah. Okay, there we
• 1:03:35
  exactly list what are the problems, why it seems to
• 1:03:40
  be not— well, why it's hard to accept by any
• 1:03:44
  reasonable biophysicist, I would say, because there are certain risks, you know, just the simplest
• 1:03:47
  idea, simple thing, which is Just to give you an example, I was
• 1:03:51
  thinking about it today, how to, how to put it clearly. So this light is
• 1:03:54
  extremely weak. Imagine a lighter or a candle
• 1:03:59
  light. Now take this candle light and let it light
• 1:04:03
  to International Space Station, so 400 kilometers above the, above
• 1:04:06
  the ground level.
• 1:04:10
  So imagine you're trying to look on that from your— somewhere
• 1:04:14
  in darkness completely, looking on that Space station, sometimes you can see that, right? It's
• 1:04:17
  one of the satellites flying around. And during that space
• 1:04:21
  station, they light up the candle. And the amount of light
• 1:04:25
  which comes from that candle down to the ground is the intensity of the
• 1:04:29
  light which humans and organisms emit. It
• 1:04:32
  is so weak as a candlelight.
• 1:04:36
  Okay. The light emissions from our bodies, as
• 1:04:39
  to compare metaphorically, would be like seeing. Candlelight that was up
• 1:04:43
  in space. Numerically it fits. I was doing the calculations, so that's what I
• 1:04:47
  found. Of course you. Were.
• 1:04:51
  Okay. I'm a.
• 1:04:56
  Cipherer, right? So. The digits. The digits. Get the numbers. All.
• 1:05:02
  Right. So, so the, the visibility is very weak,
• 1:05:06
  but is there still something left. They could
• 1:05:10
  be communicating? In principle, yes. The problem is here then
• 1:05:13
  the noise. Everything, all other signals that
• 1:05:18
  organisms integrating are very rough, can be much stronger, like many orders of
• 1:05:22
  magnitude, millions, billions times stronger than this. You know, other, let's say,
• 1:05:27
  chemical signals. So this is the major conceptual or
• 1:05:31
  paradigm challenge to overcome. And this is exactly what we write in the paper. There
• 1:05:34
  are limitations and there would need to
• 1:05:38
  be extraordinary things happening in biology, which we haven't noticed
• 1:05:42
  so far, which could enable these deciphering these
• 1:05:46
  very weak signals from the background to all their stuff. And this
• 1:05:49
  is super hard to understand because the way out
• 1:05:53
  of it, and there are, of course, people try to find out theoretically if there
• 1:05:56
  is certain coding, you know, certain patterns in time and other stuff
• 1:06:00
  or space-facing wavelengths. People were thinking of all possibilities that you can physically
• 1:06:04
  think of because people are very good in coding and cryptography and
• 1:06:08
  all the stuff is very advanced. So there were some ideas how
• 1:06:11
  to overcome these problems of very low signals and high, let's say, levels of
• 1:06:15
  noise, which organisms perceive. It's very tricky. It's
• 1:06:19
  very tricky. All the possibilities are, seems to be unlikely so far,
• 1:06:24
  unless you assume, assume something very
• 1:06:27
  extraordinary happening in biology. Which is not proved
• 1:06:31
  so far. So what would a paradigm look
• 1:06:35
  like where this made sense, the light
• 1:06:39
  communication between cells made
• 1:06:42
  sense? Like, just as a.
• 1:06:46
  Full speculation. So one of the things you mentioned, there would need
• 1:06:49
  to be
• 1:06:53
  extremely sensitive integrating and decoding detector in inside the
• 1:06:57
  cells, and it's not clear what it could be. We don't
• 1:07:01
  know. They just don't see anything. So which could it be? This
• 1:07:04
  is basically it. I mean, technically it's possible
• 1:07:08
  to detect the candlelight from the orbit, from the space
• 1:07:12
  station, but you would need to look on it very long time, very sensitive detector.
• 1:07:15
  And there are some tricks how to do that. There need to be blinking light,
• 1:07:18
  and you know exactly, you would need to know
• 1:07:22
  the code so to say. And yet you have to be extremely
• 1:07:25
  sensitive. So there is no clear idea why, what could be decoding
• 1:07:29
  any code, if there is any code in these light signals. And I can tell
• 1:07:32
  you, we've been trying very hard. We have a few papers on that. This is
• 1:07:35
  not very essential because they're very mathematical, how we
• 1:07:38
  could, what could be the code in these signals.
• 1:07:42
  So we couldn't find any except very one
• 1:07:47
  weak signature. And then there's one side that's
• 1:07:51
  on the sender, and on the receiver side, there will need to be something
• 1:07:54
  which can decode that in the huge
• 1:07:58
  amount of background signal. So we would need to
• 1:08:02
  have these, we need to prove there is
• 1:08:06
  certain code inside this specific sequence,
• 1:08:09
  or, you know, very broadly speaking, it's not like sequence in time, it's very complex
• 1:08:13
  in a complex space of properties of the light. From
• 1:08:16
  even from quantum perspective. And on the other
• 1:08:20
  side, on the receiving side, if I simplify it, because it's, you know, it can
• 1:08:24
  be more complex, it's not, you know, it, when you go to more— Yeah,
• 1:08:28
  please simplify. We'll take the simplified version. I think this is important now.
• 1:08:32
  Yeah. I'm simplifying the concept to sender and
• 1:08:36
  receiver. But now if we want to learn the words from quantum biology, it can
• 1:08:39
  be just sharing. As a field
• 1:08:43
  does, right? Yes. I'm simplifying the words to sender-receiver, but it can be
• 1:08:47
  more complex. But this is already a much more crazier idea, which is known
• 1:08:51
  from quantum biology, but is not really much known that cells could be,
• 1:08:54
  you know, somehow entangled or field-coupled. I mean, this is because the field is not
• 1:08:59
  just the particles, you know, it
• 1:09:03
  can be interfering and coupling the things together. So it's
• 1:09:07
  not like simply say things go there and there because it's all around and mingling,
• 1:09:11
  so. To say. So yeah, I guess that
• 1:09:14
  was kind of what I was wondering, if there was more at
• 1:09:18
  play than there's the biology but also the,
• 1:09:22
  the field around the biology. Is
• 1:09:27
  there something, some medium through which they could be communicating that
• 1:09:31
  we. Don'T see? Well, this is
• 1:09:35
  all philosophy,
• 1:09:39
  right? You can think of one of them, but it's— then it goes pretty
• 1:09:42
  much beyond the standard science. There are a lot of weird
• 1:09:46
  things which I think— I don't know if they are worthy to speak about because
• 1:09:49
  they go very beyond my expertise. You know, you can
• 1:09:52
  find a society which are dealing with this. They are
• 1:09:56
  not— definitely not, I would
• 1:10:00
  say following the standard science for
• 1:10:03
  different reasons. So for example, there is well-known in US established
• 1:10:07
  Society for Scientific Exploration. You can check,
• 1:10:12
  they're very, uh, extravagant topics, so.
• 1:10:17
  To say. I love it. Yeah, but that's different, that's not
• 1:10:21
  my field. I just know they exist, they do
• 1:10:25
  all the crazy things you can imagine, from remote viewing, telepathy,
• 1:10:28
  and this stuff. But that's not the— it's not my
• 1:10:32
  cup of coffee for my research. It's fun to hear about it, but for
• 1:10:36
  me, it's, you know, I can't. Really use it in our research,
• 1:10:40
  right? And that's fair. And I think, you know, obviously we need
• 1:10:44
  to stay very grounded in what we
• 1:10:48
  can figure out for sure. Appreciate that you're
• 1:10:52
  doing that. To wrap up, could you
• 1:10:57
  just say if your wildest dreams come
• 1:11:00
  true and you get to have a million different data points
• 1:11:05
  on the
• 1:11:08
  bioluminescence emissions, what would you
• 1:11:12
  maybe expect to see or hope to see in
• 1:11:17
  that data? What would be like really
• 1:11:21
  cool to—. So I would like to know, I would like to see
• 1:11:24
  the things which we didn't know. What
• 1:11:28
  I expect to see though is that if everything
• 1:11:32
  is well controlled, it will be
• 1:11:35
  able to monitor, as I mentioned,
• 1:11:39
  through these indices of oxidative
• 1:11:44
  stress to probe, let's say, affecting biological age,
• 1:11:47
  to see effects of therapies, different kinds
• 1:11:52
  of them. Because what will be interesting to see, longitudinal evolution, like if
• 1:11:55
  you measure something at one subject and then over time
• 1:11:59
  after certain interventions, this could be
• 1:12:03
  interesting metric. Just purely pragmatically, it's completely non-invasive. You just
• 1:12:07
  watch, you don't even send any light, you just watch the light being emitted from
• 1:12:11
  the from the, from the organism. So it's completely non-invasive, so no
• 1:12:14
  burden for the patient, just a matter of minutes to get
• 1:12:18
  the signals. So just from this perspective of being completely non-invasive, that's something
• 1:12:22
  that I believe is just cool if
• 1:12:25
  it brings enough interesting information, but that will, that we will know. So
• 1:12:29
  yeah, so on, on this pragmatic level, having new biomedical technology
• 1:12:33
  which can non-invasively tell the level of
• 1:12:36
  the, say, biological stress, I think also it'd be useful in different
• 1:12:40
  medical fields to monitor different interventions, medical interventions or
• 1:12:44
  different interventions in whole, that could be useful. Now having this
• 1:12:48
  huge database, you can now then nicely compare, okay, so this worked, so we do
• 1:12:52
  see changes in this metric, let's say this oxidative stress. And
• 1:12:55
  of course, also frankly speaking, as my, let's
• 1:12:59
  say, personal research mission is really understanding of interaction
• 1:13:03
  within the field and matter, one of
• 1:13:06
  the important side effects will be increasing the awareness of this. I think
• 1:13:10
  it really inspired many people, many new scientists, to think about
• 1:13:14
  more broadly about the bioelectromagnetic phenomenon. And
• 1:13:17
  I think that's maybe in the end more
• 1:13:21
  important for this project, if you call it Biophoton IQ or
• 1:13:26
  Biophotonic project. So that would be my biggest dream, that it really Everybody in the
• 1:13:30
  world knows that organisms emit light
• 1:13:33
  and start from that thinking further. I love it. I'm so
• 1:13:37
  excited and congratulations to you and your team for coming up
• 1:13:41
  with this idea and moving forward with it and,
• 1:13:44
  you know, constructing it in a way that can involve truly
• 1:13:48
  anyone who's committed and interested. That is, I
• 1:13:51
  think, really exciting information and I know Our crowd is going
• 1:13:55
  to be excited to participate and to follow along and to
• 1:13:59
  keep learning more. So is there anywhere
• 1:14:02
  where people should connect with you or follow you if they want to
• 1:14:06
  maintain updates? I'm active on 8 social networks, but my primary one
• 1:14:09
  is LinkedIn. Okay. It's a professional network. As I mentioned, this project is
• 1:14:13
  not online yet. We like to assume we're going
• 1:14:17
  to have first public presentation if it all works out in
• 1:14:20
  Washington, D.C. in Quantum Biology Forum. Forum. It's still not
• 1:14:24
  accepted abstract, but I believe organizers will accept
• 1:14:28
  that. Okay. It's the first public thing, and by the time,
• 1:14:31
  by April, hopefully we should have a website
• 1:14:35
  online, and we'll start to build a network of interested people. After the
• 1:14:38
  pilot study, we'll try to make this as far as possible, and we, when
• 1:14:42
  we see promising data, we'll step up beyond the, let's say,
• 1:14:46
  the Prague and go worldwide and Of course, people will be
• 1:14:50
  very much interested. It will be very interesting to purchase the device. We can
• 1:14:53
  make it faster because, you know, the funding will be bottlenecked for
• 1:14:57
  a certain time. But that's, we'll wait to see how we, how we'll scale it.
• 1:15:01
  We have different strategies how to do that, but we'll see depending on, let's
• 1:15:04
  say, number of interested people and how committed they can
• 1:15:09
  be to deliver the data. But they, but there is a device that they
• 1:15:12
  could rent or purchase that will be able to This is so
• 1:15:16
  cool because I— it must be very difficult right now because when you look for
• 1:15:20
  photos online, there aren't very many, which led me to believe it's
• 1:15:24
  quite hard to get to take them. So you're changing
• 1:15:28
  that. Yeah, so again, again, this will be not making photos, it'll
• 1:15:32
  be collecting. That's collecting the numbers, right? Could you then
• 1:15:36
  create images out of the numbers? Um,
• 1:15:39
  very, very coarse images if you like. Imagine like a
• 1:15:43
  scanning detector. So yeah, light, you could basically scan and then
• 1:15:47
  reconstruct, but it's, you know, very complicated. Okay, so important clarification.
• 1:15:51
  So it's not a photo, it's— you're picking up the data points and
• 1:15:54
  storing it numerically inside the device so people
• 1:15:59
  can track the levels of emissions over time as someone
• 1:16:02
  recovers or ages or gets ill, or if there was a change after a lifestyle
• 1:16:06
  change or a certain intervention, you can measure if there is a
• 1:16:10
  change. So exciting, so exciting. Thank you so much, Michal. Let me share the
• 1:16:14
  excitement because I think it will be really, really big and impactful in a
• 1:16:18
  positive way. I think so. Thank you. Thank you for coming up with
• 1:16:22
  it. Thank you for your time today, and I look forward to
• 1:16:25
  doing this again when we can hear
• 1:16:29
  some updates. I will be happy to help. Thank you
• 1:16:33
  very much. This has been The Quantum Biology
• 1:16:37
  Collective podcast. To find a practitioner who practices from this point
• 1:16:41
  of view, visit our
• 1:16:41
  directory
• 1:16:46
  at quantumbiologycollective.org. If you are a practitioner, definitely take a look
• 1:16:50
  at the Applied Quantum Biology Certification, a
• 1:16:53
  6-week study of the science of the new human health paradigm
• 1:16:57
  and its practical application with your patients
• 1:17:01
  and clients. We also love to feature graduates of the program
• 1:17:05
  on this very podcast. Until next time, the QVC.