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The Big O Show-Episode #2: OMF Reunion · The Big O Podcast

• Glenn Ordway: So it's episode two, and I'm thinking, okay, who do I get on for episode two? Had a great run with the big show, great one with the Celtics, but I also had a another run that I was pretty proud of with a couple of ex athletes and Christian Fourier and Lou Merlone. It was OMF. And so here we are today, a reunion with the OMF boys. God. The Professor: Yeah, there it is. Finally, finally, you finally listened to me. You find begging you to get us together because you're not doing a goddamn thing. You're you just you're not you're so bored. You know, Lou and I are working, you know, busting Glenn Ordway: Yeah, no, I am not. I am yes. Lou Merloni: Yeah. The Professor: our butt, you know, trying to make a difference in the world. And here you are, waking up late, playing golf, playing Batman, Glenn Ordway: Yep. Yep. The Professor: playing a pickleball. It's good to see you, skinny hoe. Glenn Ordway: it's great Lou Merloni: know, Glenn Ordway: to see you again. Lou Merloni: we sat there, we had a few dinners and we were both like, Audrey, what are you doing out in the desert? You don't golf. Look at you. You know, you're not The Professor: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I know. Lou Merloni: a golfer. Golfers are like 6'2", 6'4", and lean. Yeah, Glenn Ordway: Golf rarely, Lou. Rarely, not like you. Right. Yeah. The Professor: Yeah. Lou Merloni: you're not a golfer. You're doing a podcast. What do we got? Get the boys back together, right? OMF. The Professor: Yeah. Yeah. Glenn Ordway: So this is this is great. So first of all, for those people that don't know what you've been doing, I think most people know what Lou's been doing because you watch him on TV on Nessant every night with the Red Sox games. And maybe, and we'll we'll get to it later on, maybe the most bizarre Red Sox season I can Lou Merloni: Yeah. Glenn Ordway: ever, ever remember. I mean, I thought I was back in the nineteen sixties for the first two and a half months, and now I think I'm back in the early two thousands. So it's just crazy. We'll get to it. But Christian is now A professor, or do they call you the the prophes? The Professor: The professor, yes. Yeah, I know. Lou Merloni: Mr. Foyer, Mr. Foyer. The Professor: Foyer hasn't really hit yet. I'm waiting for that. I thought that would kind of be a thing and it hasn't really, you know, it hasn't really hit yet. It's funny. You walk around campus and and the kids are like, you know, class is over and I'm here every day and you're like, Professor, professor, and I literally stop and I'm I'm trying to figure out who they're talking to, you know. And it's Lou Merloni: You The Professor: Are you talking to me? What do you need from me? Glenn Ordway: So so let me ask let me ask you this. what course are you teaching? Like tight ends? Is that what you're teaching? What are you te what are you teaching? Teach what? The Professor: No, no. There's actually I teach this. I teach Lou Merloni: Touchdown dances. The Professor: I I touchdown dances, spike between the legs, you know, wham blocks, lots of lots of three technique talk in my class. Lots of three technique talk. Glenn Ordway: So Lou, let me ask you this. Yeah. Lou Merloni: So Ordway, yeah, well, both of us, Ordway, you and I both have been asked to talk to his class, correct? Like, have you, did you talk to Fogier's class? Yeah. So we go in there. Well, it's strange, right? Glenn Ordway: correct. No, you know what he did. Yeah, go ahead, Lou. Lou Merloni: Because you've got these 19, 20 year old students and they're like, Mr. Fogier, Mr. Fogier, next week, the assignment, and you're just like in this bizarro world. of Christian teaching these kids and it was, I think I The Professor: I know. Lou Merloni: laughed the entire time driving home. Like that was fun. The Professor: Yeah. I know. Glenn Ordway: Lou, I think I think this was just another foyer scam. What he did was he got a job as a professor at Bryant College teaching broadcasting. The Professor: It's university. First of all, get it Lou Merloni: Mm-hmm. The Professor: right. If you're gonna c if come on now, Bryant University. We're a university. You didn't do your research, Glenn Ordway: Which what school is it? O'Brien University. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I know these Lou Merloni: University of Bryant. Yes. The Professor: F for you to the day. See, I would just I would just mark you down right now. That's it. Get out of here, Ordway. Glenn Ordway: But it's a scam. He's teaching broadcasting and then what he does is he picks up the phone, he calls you, he calls me, he calls Steve Burton, he calls all of his buddies who are in the business, The Professor: No, I don't call Steve. Glenn Ordway: and they come in and do the whole lecture for an hour. And he sits back and does fucking nothing. That's what he does. The Professor: First of all, the lecture Lou Merloni: To that. The Professor: is the the lecture is three hours. It's three hours. Glenn and his and his and his greatness was actually my first guest. and I titled it The Genesis of Sports Talk. And of course, who to start than the the king himself, like Mr. Marconi. Like so he Lou Merloni: Of course, you have to. The Professor: was great. Lou came in a in a different respect as far 'cause I needed true leadership advice Glenn Ordway: Okay. The Professor: for the kids. And I couldn't go to you, Glenn. to go to Lou, you know, was Lou Merloni: Yeah. The Professor: about how to real what is what does it really take to make it in this business? And, you know, you were hand fed everything, right? They just gave you everything. You know, you never have to work for anything. What are we talking about? Glenn Ordway: So listen, he's saying all these nice Lou Merloni: Ugh. Glenn Ordway: things about me, Lou, but I want to go back to the genesis of our show. You two guys were doing a show with Tim Benz, right? Kid Lou Merloni: Yeah, it's going well. Glenn Ordway: from Pittsburgh, right? Was he from Pittsburgh? Yeah. Yeah. The Professor: Yeah, yeah. He's still covering the Steelers. Lou Merloni: Pittsburgh, yeah, it still is. Glenn Ordway: Lou had just come off doing a show with Mutt, Mike Manansky. And Lou Merloni: Yep, who's covering horses? Glenn Ordway: right, exactly. Hey, listen, Lou, Lou, I listened to your show. Lou Merloni: He's with- he's with- no, he's- The Professor: think those interviews go? How do those interviews go? Glenn Ordway: I listened to your show during the Derby week. It was great. but Christian and and Lou were doing a show with Tim Benz. It was not going well. And they ended up bringing me back to do the show. Now I've got to give you what the feedback that I got from Phil Zachary, who was bringing us all together and all this. Because this guy now, Foyer, is saying all these wonderful things about me right now. First Lou Merloni: Yeah. Glenn Ordway: thing Fourier said was, because Lou had worked with me, Lou said, this will be great. This will be great. This will work. This will be awesome. Lou Merloni: Before you didn't want him, said he's done. Glenn Ordway: He wanted he wanted tangway. He wanted tangway. He said Ordway won't work. What was I too fat? Was I too old? What was the The Professor: No, I didn't. I wanna Tangway. Yeah. Yeah. Well no no no. Lou Merloni: Well, see, you... Glenn Ordway: problem with you? Lou Merloni: Go ahead, Paul, you gotta The Professor: That's not true. Lou Merloni: speak for yourself there. Go ahead. The Professor: Okay, that's not technically true. it's not I didn't say it wouldn't work. I told Lou, and he'll vouch for it. I I said I didn't know you, I didn't know anything about you. I wasn't, you know, even though I played sports, I didn't listen to sports talk radio. I would go on as a guest randomly whenever if I had free time, but I didn't listen to sports talk radio. But I knew Gary because I would work up, work with him, I think back when it was like Fox. Sports Northeast or something like that. Right? Glenn Ordway: Yeah. Right. Yeah. Lou Merloni: Gary Tengwe. The Professor: Four different Yeah. So yeah, Glenn Ordway: New England, Fox Sports, New England. The Professor: so him and I were friends and was like, this would be great. I just wanted to work with my friends. Honestly, people that I people that I liked. Lou Merloni: See, my thing was like, I wanted Old Way Back because Christian had just started with Tim and Tim, know, whatever, I didn't mind Tim, I didn't like the way he ran a show. We went back to Pittsburgh because he was going back and forth and everything else. But it was like, I wanted the format back. I wanted the radio format back. Like we'd had this format that Tim really believed in and Christian had just joined the show and he's like, I kind of like bouncing around. We would hit The Professor: I didn't know any better. Yeah. Lou Merloni: four sports in the first hour. And then the second hour we'd go back and hit four different sports. And then people would be like, why aren't we getting any calls? And I'm like, well, Jesus Christ, we just talked for freaking Red Sox for 10 minutes and everybody started to call and you just teased Patriots, so they hung up and they're ready to talk The Professor: Yeah. Lou Merloni: Patriots, you just teased Celtics and they hung up. So it was like, was kind of losing it. And I was like, I need forward way back here, or way rather, let's hit a topic, let's stay with it, let's run it dry, get to the next one. And it was. The Professor: Well, let me add let me add Glenn Ordway: Aye. The Professor: something real quick, Glenn, because you know, again, I had no idea. Lou had already been there and Lou kept bitching and complaining. Lou Merloni: I learned under Ordway. The Professor: Well, I know, but he kept complaining. I was like, I didn't know any better. But I also came from ESPN. So ESPN was very similar. Their radio, like they had hard outs at the top of the hour, the music would start playing, and before, and then they would have a countdown. So you were this the clock was very, very, very strict. Okay. And it is now when I work for Sirius. It's like that you gotta get out when you gotta get out. But he would bitch and complain. And I was like, dude, I don't know. Like, I mean, how would I know? Lou Merloni: Not me. The Professor: But but to his credit, he was absolutely right. He was absolutely right. And I think I noticed it immediately. First day, first segment, immediately I was like, Wow, this is so much better. and you were so much better. Not that Tim wasn't good, but he just didn't really I didn't I didn't think it fit, you know. And we were we were forcing Lou Merloni: You different styles. Yeah. The Professor: we were forcing this relationship that I thought wasn't going anywhere. Glenn Ordway: So I think a lot of broadcasters, and not just broadcasters, but program directors make the mistake. If you're doing a four hour show, nobody listens for the entire four hours. They actually listen for about 15 minutes. That's about it. And if you're not talking about the topic that's number one priority up on your your list during the 15 minutes they're listening, guess what? They push the button, they go elsewhere. So you have to hit them with that. So the mistake they make is. I thought Andy Gresh did the same thing with you in in your midday show. Cause Andy, I think, is a pretty good broadcaster, but he, you know, seemed like he was well prepared, but he wanted to give you 20 topics. And so he's all over the place as opposed to Andy, just give me what we're all talking about right now at the water cooler right now for the 15 minutes that I'm listening, and I'm yours. And I think that mistake is made a lot. The Professor: But he but see, you know, that that that I don't think was the problem with Gresh and I. Because Gresh Yeah, yeah. Now I I'll take the blame. I'll take the hit on that. Glenn Ordway: Well, you were the problem with Gresh and and you. There's no question about that. Yeah. Lou Merloni: Yeah. The Professor: But but what Wreck It Ralph thought would work would be like a new version of Gresh and Zolak. So I was like, I'm not Zolak. Yeah, Glenn Ordway: Right. From the Providence days. Right. The Professor: well, I was this is this, we're not we have a we Wreck It Ralph, King Dingling, whatever you want to call him. You know, and Lou Merloni: my God. The Professor: I was like, This ain't gonna work because I would say the very Lou Merloni: Good. The Professor: The most important thing that I learned from working with you guys, and then was how tough it is to create chemistry on a show. And and I Lou Glenn Ordway: Most important. The Professor: and I found that out, like our second trip or third trip once you left, when Mego kind of came on, and they were like, Remember Lou Merloni: Yeah. The Professor: him and I were like, wow, I think this is gonna work. Like she's self-deprecating, she's down for whatever, she's you know, intelligent, she's funny. Right. And it really worked with us, you know, but the other ones did not. And that's and that's what I think w so it's less about Gresh, in my opinion. It was more about like I just I knew from the beginning the the public wasn't gonna accept it. He had already had a popular show with Rich. He already they were doing a 10. Like I was like, why are you King Diggling? What are you doing? Why are you breaking this show, these shows up? But Wreck It Ralph had a plan, you know, and Wreck It Ralph is never wrong, right? Never wrong. Ever. Glenn Ordway: Well well I busted your no I I busted your balls for Lou Merloni: Huh. The Professor: I know. Glenn Ordway: you know, giving me shit the first week and saying, Who the fuck is this dude and this old The Professor: me? Glenn Ordway: man? But I will say this, and that you're right. You figured it out very quickly, 'cause Lou, I think it was probably three or four days in. We're done with the show. I get up out of the chair, he's got this like glaze eyed look. He comes up to me, he gives me a big hug, he says, I think I love you. And I think this is going to work. The Professor: But he was, but he was Lou Merloni: What it was The Professor: suffering because he knew, he knew. Glenn Ordway: my god. The Professor: I didn't know. So I didn't know any better. But he Lou Merloni: Yeah. The Professor: understood what it was like on the other side. I felt like we were in like a like a like you know, witness protection and we were captives, right? And I was like, this isn't so bad, Lou, right? You know, he's like, No man, this sucks. Glenn Ordway: Yeah. I w I wanna I wanna get to Lou Merloni: No, it's honestly, yeah, I think we just need it. And that's the whole thing to chemistry stuff. Like when you're talking for four hours, you can't try to be something else, somebody you're not. Like Glenn Ordway: Yeah. Lou Merloni: when you're working with someone, you can't try to pretend that you like them. I mean, it's four hours a day. It's conversation. It's talks before, talks after. And if you just, your personalities don't click, you know, and it's not going to click on the air. It's, and you can't pretend. You can only pretend for so long to the point where you're like, I fucking hate this guy. Like, I just don't want to do this anymore. But when you have a group that really likes each other and are real friends, it The Professor: Yeah. Yeah. Lou Merloni: just comes off that way. The Professor: Yeah. Glenn Ordway: Yeah, we became friends and we really did like each other. And we had battles. There was no question. There were commercial breaks where one of us was screaming at the other one or whatever. But I think there was, yes, it was you. You were always the one. Lou was pretty good about it. He was pretty calm. You were The Professor: I know. That was a hothead. Glenn Ordway: the one that had a little fucking hissy fit on a regular basis, but we respected The Professor: I did. Yeah. Glenn Ordway: each other and it worked. So I gotta give you the rest of this. So we start doing the show. Fourier suddenly is in love with me now, hugging me after every fucking show. And two weeks. Lou Merloni: It really was embarrassing. Glenn Ordway: It was embarrassing. The Professor: No. Glenn Ordway: And two weeks Lou Merloni: Yeah. Glenn Ordway: two weeks two weeks into the show, it's a Patriots Jet scheme down at Gillette Stadium, and I pass out and I am rushed to the hospital. Two weeks into the show. Correct. The Professor: Right. He almost died. I remember I was like, Lou Merloni: Yes. The Professor: I do remember going, holy crap. This guy just came back and he's gonna die on us, Lou. Lou, he's gonna die. Lou Merloni: Yeah. And with Glenn Ordway: Exactly. Lou Merloni: the news of it, first Christian calls me up and he's like, hey, Audrey Pastel, who's our new host? I was like, come on, man. Like, care for the guy. Did Tangwei resign? Glenn Ordway: Is Ten Wei still available? Right. Lou Merloni: Care for the guy. Don't worry about the show quite yet. Glenn Ordway: So so they end up shipping me to Brigham and Women's Hospital. The Professor: so funny. Yeah. Glenn Ordway: And it was it's this was 2015, and it was Lou Merloni: Mm-hmm. Glenn Ordway: the most September, and it was the most bizarre thing because I am in one of the best hospitals in the world. And for three days, they think I'm having a bleeding ulcer, yet they're feeding me up with like 10 units of blood every single day because I'm just bleeding to death and they can't figure it out. So finally, my wife, in the middle of the night, Emails a a surgeon friend of ours who worked at Brigham and Women's Hospital, told him what the situation is. He shows up at seven AM in the morning, the next morning, and says, What are you feeling? What are you doing? This I'm doing a CAT skin. I'm he just took over and came back to me within an hour and said, We found out what it is. And I said, What is it? He said, You've got a tumor the size of a softball that The Professor: man. Glenn Ordway: is attached to your small in intestine. And we need to get it out. I said, when? Right now. We're doing Lou Merloni: Hmm. Glenn Ordway: emergency surgery. I'm putting a team together. We're wheeling you in in a few minutes. Right after he said that he walks out of the room. I pass out again. And so now they're feeding me with blood and oxygen just to keep me alive. These guys have no clue of what's The Professor: I didn't know that. Glenn Ordway: going on. yeah, it was I almost died. There's no question about it. Lou Merloni: No. No, we're texting back and forth like what the open's gonna be. You know, we're trying to figure out Glenn Ordway: Yeah, well Lou Merloni: reaction for, you know, we don't know what the hell's going on. The Professor: I know, Glenn Ordway: Yeah. Well, the funny thing is The Professor: I know. Glenn Ordway: you guys were worrying about what was going on. And Phil Zachary, so Zachary had just come back to the Boston market. I had worked with Phil Zachary. He was the general man, came back as a general manager. I had worked with him in our twenties when we were just kids. So he's the general manager. He just comes back to the station. Station is starting to make some traction. They The Professor: Mm-hmm. Glenn Ordway: bring in Kirk Minahan in the morning. He's doing well with with Dennison Callahan. And they bring me in midday. He sees, boy, this is optimistic. We're gonna go. Lou Merloni: Yeah, we're rolling. Glenn Ordway: And Ordway's dying over at Brigham and Women's. So The Professor: You know. Seriously. Lou Merloni: Yeah. Glenn Ordway: Phil Zachary, Phil Zachary hung out for two days at the hospital in the lobby because he wasn't a family member. They wouldn't let him in. He wanted to find out whether I was dead, and he had to make that phone call to Gary Tangway. He didn't, you Lou Merloni: You Glenn Ordway: know, he so The Professor: Well I'll say this. Listen, I Lou Merloni: Is Changwei still available? Glenn Ordway: Não vai bom. The Professor: I think he's available now, actually. the you know, that I didn't know all Lou Merloni: Yeah! The Professor: that. I we were joking about it. 'cause I again I just didn't know you like I know you now. Like you we we we talk about whatever, nothing is off limits. Good, bad, good, bad. It doesn't matter. And Glenn Ordway: Talk about life, don't we? We do talk about life. Yeah. Yeah. Lou Merloni: Yeah. The Professor: and that's and you know, Lou and I we have a standing, you know, recurring dinner that we have during Christmas with Joe. We always get together during Christmas and we have our like our show dinner. There's been a Glenn Ordway: I will do that this Christmas with you guys. I will do it. The Professor: Yeah. And so we you but now Lou Merloni: Yeah, The Professor: with you, since you you stay Lou Merloni: we hit our summer one. The Professor: in Arizona, we had a summer one. I will say Phil is great. When I came to that station, it was a different atmosphere. I was used to the sports life and, you know, camaraderie, people supporting each other. It was a totally different environment. Phil was well, no, but Phil was great. Like Glenn Ordway: First class travel, yeah. The Professor: as far as like a leader, I thought he was just really good at clear messaging. Glenn Ordway: I agree, he was good. I liked him. The Professor: He was you know, he would do whatever he could for you, is so supportive, like, you know, loved all the shows, like was never was this would never try to undercut you or lie to you or make stuff up or bully you. Like he never had a silly, you know, you know, tattoos of like, you know, radio signals on his arm. Like he never had anything silly, like he was tougher than, you know, peop like he would portray. He was just a good dude. Glenn Ordway: Choose a Yeah. Hold on, hold on, hold on. Who who was stupid enough to put like a radio tower on their arm tattoo? So I want to give you Lou Merloni: What? The Professor: Radio ta who puts the radio tattoo on their forearm? Who does that? Glenn Ordway: I I want to give you one. I think you know, I think you know Lou Merloni: yeah. Glenn Ordway: this information because it clearly in this podcast we have nothing to to hide. The first time Lou and I talked about becoming a broadcaster, he was playing for Cleveland. You were was it Cleveland? You were in your last year, Lou? Lou Merloni: Yeah, yeah. Glenn Ordway: He shows up at one of our New England tailgate parties down at Foxboro. And Lou and I knew each other a little bit. And so he comes up to me, and next thing you know, we start talking about baseball and you know the normal things that that you you talk about. And then he asks the question, which was a smart question. I'm done. I'm done. So is there an opportunity in in broadcasting? I'm sitting there going, Hell yeah. You're a local guy. You know all the sports. You're from Framingham, Massachusetts. And you got the baseball credentials? Yeah, you wanna try out and and spend some time with the big show? And he said, Absolutely. And so then we met later, we talked and we worked it all out. I wanna fast forward this. Lou Merloni: Yeah, I think it was like Steve Burton or Cedric Maxwell was one of first shows that I did. And it was just like, hey, why don't you come in once a week? Actually, come in once. Let's just see, because this could really suck, right? And then we'll never hear from you ever again. So Glenn Ordway: Right. Right. Possibility. Lou Merloni: I think I came in once and the show was over and Old Ray's like, you know, let me know if you're not busy next week. Maybe come in again. And it just, that was... The Professor: What was where were you getting paid back then, Lou? If you came in for an appearance, you're just doing it for free, right? Lou Merloni: I don't even know if I was. I don't even know if I was. Glenn Ordway: You were getting you were getting you were getting paid, but it might have been twenty five bucks an hour. The Professor: No Lou Merloni: Yeah, I don't even know if I was. But I mean, you're The Professor: it wasn't much. Yeah. Lou Merloni: at that stage where like, I'm retired, you know, and I'm like, I don't know what I'm doing. Like, I don't really care if you're gonna pay me here for this, whatever. I'm not worried about that right now. I just want to see what I want to do, right? Like, yeah. Glenn Ordway: All right, so I want to fast forward it. so Lou gets really good at this, and he becomes a regular and he is really into our schedule. 2009 comes up now. CBS is going to put 98.5 on the air. Next thing I know, guess who they were talking about to pair together with Michael Felger? It was going to be Lou Merlone. At least that was one of the guys they were talking to. They were talking to him. They were talking to Tony Maz, who obviously got the job. And they might have been talking to somebody else. I'm not sure. I'm on vacation now. It's the summertime. Lou Merloni: You Glenn Ordway: You know, remember the summers? I kind of took a little bit of vacation in the summer. I'm in the I'm in the Lou Merloni: took the whole thing off, I know. Back then you had 12 weeks of vacation. Glenn Ordway: I'm in the vineyard. And Lou pick calls me up and says, Hey, big O. I gotta tell you, I'm thinking about taking a job. At that new radio star station that's starting The Professor: Ha ha. Glenn Ordway: up. And I'm going, shit. Lou Merloni: I'm gonna kick your ass. Glenn Ordway: Exactly. And I'm sitting there going, my God. I just so I spent my entire vacation. My wife was pissed at me. I spent my entire vacation going back and forth with Lou trying to convince him to stay. Now, I don't think I was the one that ultimately convinced him to stay. What convinced him to stay was the fact that. EEI had Red Sox baseball games and Lou could be involved in those Red Sox baseball games. Lou Merloni: Yeah. Glenn Ordway: That was his passion. That's what he wanted to do. And if he could do that, be involved in the games, do some of the games, and then also talk about baseball on the big show. I you tell me, I think you Lou Merloni: Yeah. Glenn Ordway: felt that was going to satisfy your needs, correct? Lou Merloni: Yeah, that was a huge role in it, you know? And I don't know if like the hub was really kind of tied into NBC or not at that time, but it was like, was just, that was just not any Glenn Ordway: that was the other one. That was the other one, correct? 'Cause Lou Merloni: kind of baseball path that I was looking for, right? Like I wanted to talk baseball. I wanted to stay associated with the team, whether it was, know, maybe there was an opportunity to maybe start calling some games on the radio, which I was doing maybe 25 to 30 of them. And the other one was that two to six slot, you know, it was just, I think at the time I was still, kind of midday or whatever it was. I was willing to but the schedule was nice for me. And I was like, if I go over there, they don't have socks on radio. If they're tied into a station, it doesn't have socks on TV. And it was just, moving away from it. So it's just at the time, it didn't feel right for me. It didn't Glenn Ordway: Okay. Lou Merloni: at all. Glenn Ordway: So let me ask you the question. You know what has happened. You've had to work with these two idiots, me and Lou Merloni: Yeah. Glenn Ordway: and this tight end. You've done a bunch of other stuff along the way. When you look back and you look back at the success right now that Felger in that show has had, do you ever sit back, maybe say to your wife, Boy, I got some regrets. I should have done that show with Felger. Do you ever say that? Lou Merloni: Well, mean, there were times when like, you know, their success that they had and you're sitting here, it's really more of like a financial thing. You're like, these guys just kept tearing it up, right? Like, I don't know where they're where they're at financially. But The Professor: Bonus after bonus after bonus. Lou Merloni: I will say this, like, I have no regrets because of where I landed, like in what I'm doing right now. Like this, I don't know if I would have been doing this if I was over there. I would have to left at some point. to kind of be doing the games on Ness. And you guys know, I mean, this is like, I'll talk all sports, but my life right now is just baseball. And I'm covering this game, I do 120 games on TV. Like this is the perfect job for me. Like I could not be happier. Glenn Ordway: It's a great kick. Yeah. Lou Merloni: So like, would I have been here if I was over there? I don't know, I would have had to have left, you know, at some point. So I don't have any regrets whatsoever. They've had a ton of success. It's been a little chaotic, you know, on the other side, not as stable. as you would say as far as shows go. But now I have no regrets because where I end up is what matters and where I end up right now is perfect. It's absolutely perfect. Glenn Ordway: Actually, if you were doing that other gig, the timeline probably would have been the same as Tony Maz. John Henry would get excited about getting somebody who's on talk radio getting big ratings to come in and do the Red Sox broadcast on Nesson till they actually put him on Nesson and found out he might say some things they don't want him to say. And within a year, they fire his ass out of Nesson. So you might have this you might have had the exact same experience. I want to get into Lou Merloni: Yeah, actually, I think it was me that kind of unfortunately got Maz out of there because it was like, you know, I remember that the timing of it. He was doing like 25 to 30. And at the time when he let me go, that door sort of opened and everyone's sort of not really know what's going on in the fall when I talk to them and they're like, maybe we can find 25 to 30 games. And it was weird because Maz is sort of like, haven't heard from them. And I'm talking about doing 25 to 30, which is the 25 to 30 that he was doing the year before. And so in the end, it's like, think I might've pushed his ass out and he's a friend of mine. But so I don't think it was anything like him like, he was too hard on them. anything, if anything, now that he was in the booth, he was a lot softer on them compared to not being in the booth. So I think, yeah, and then that Glenn Ordway: Yes, yes. I I agree. Lou Merloni: sort of started my, they had an opportunity to get me in the door at like 25 to 30 games. And unfortunately, I think those are the ones that he was doing the year before. Glenn Ordway: Didn't they want you to do like a kids program or something like that? Lou Merloni: Yeah, I don't know. EI wanted me to do pre and post, but I was just on the radio. So I don't know. I just wasn't. Let's do some games. Let's figure it out. Glenn Ordway: Pre impost, you're an analyst. You should be doing the game. I wanna I want to get into where you guys worked without me, because I I was really proud of what you guys were able to accomplish. So my last day, they stick us out at a remote, thought that was be the perfect way to send off the old man retiring, you know, give him the gold watch and get him the fuck out of here. And so it and The Professor: Such a weird day. Such a weird day. Lou Merloni: Yeah. Glenn Ordway: so we get we get down to the last hour of the show. And you guys did a terrific job with the show. You had all these people that were popping on coming in. Bill Walton Walt Walton was one of the guests who popped on, gave me all sorts of shit. We get to that The Professor: Yeah. That was fun. He just kept talking. Glenn Ordway: we wouldn't Lou Merloni: Chalker. The Professor: Just kept talking. It was funny. We told them to. Yeah. Glenn Ordway: We get down to the last we get down to the last fifteen Lou Merloni: Glenn Ordway, The Professor: Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Lou Merloni: the big O. and he just kept going. The Professor: Yeah. Glenn Ordway: We get down to the last 15 minutes. And Christian, you probably remember this. I look over The Professor: Mm-hmm. Glenn Ordway: and Lou is tearing up. I mean, I was I was taken back. Lou was actually like you. There was moisture here when Lou. The Professor: Yeah. He's the emotional one. Glenn Ordway: And and I said, I said, well, yeah. And I said, I really feel good now. I really feel Lou Merloni: I am. I'm an Italian. The Professor: Yeah. Yeah. So am I. Kinda. Glenn Ordway: I'm not. I I'm Greek. Lou Merloni: On 16th. Glenn Ordway: I said, I really feel good about working with these guys because look at the emotion they're getting. Then the station, for some reason, this guy, Tim Clark, was our general manager Lou Merloni: my god. Glenn Ordway: at the time. Tim Clark, he The Professor: Yeah. Glenn Ordway: had been the general manager for literally two weeks. Let me tell you what my first meeting with Tim Clark was. Two weeks before this last show, when I retire, he calls me into his office and he wants to take me out to dinner. I said, Okay, when do you want to go? Right now. He said Lou Merloni: fire you? Glenn Ordway: Not yeah. The Professor: Ha ha. Glenn Ordway: I so we go out to dinner and the dinner was basically he already knew that I had retired, that I was done in two weeks, and we just had like an hour and a half dinner and and that was it. Now let's fast forward two weeks later. The last 15 minutes of my 50-year career, he's gonna get up now, take the microphone away from Christian. And he is going to sit there. He's not from the area. He doesn't know anything about Boston. He claims his The Professor: Mm-hmm. All made up. Lou Merloni: Right. Glenn Ordway: claims his what's that? Made up. What is made up? yeah. He like like he gets on the microphone and starts praising us like The Professor: All made up. His his association with you and everything, all made up. Yeah. Mm. Like your long lost friends. Yeah. Glenn Ordway: I had he had known everything that I had ever done. And his father used to listen to me do Celtic The Professor: Yeah. Glenn Ordway: schemes and what. And I'm sitting there going, fifty years in the business, Lou's crying. Christian sitting there worried about can I get Tangway on the phone or somebody else to replace him? And the general manager, Tim Clark, takes over the last 15 minutes of the show. It pissed me, it pissed me off. Lou Merloni: Who you don't even know. The Professor: So no, you got the you got you got it wrong. You got it wrong. I was thinking of Gary just a little bit. but so I was beside myself with this, with with how the he hijacked this segment. And Glenn Ordway: Be hijacked is the right word. The Professor: he hijacked Lou Merloni: Yeah. The Professor: it, he shoehorned his way into it, and he had no business being in there. And we knew he was just passing through. So, like, I'm like, dude, nobody knows you. Like nobody even like you know understands what exactly you're going to do because everything was so vague. And everything Glenn Ordway: there for two weeks, Christian. Two weeks. The Professor: was because I had dinner with him too. It was all so vague. It was nonsense. Like, dude, whatever, beat it. Glenn Ordway: Nonsense. The Professor: And and then and sure, like you know why I couldn't be emotional? I wish like this to be on the record. Lou Merloni: Cause you're pissed. Glenn Ordway: Good. were you? Why? You were mad at pissed at me? The Professor: Cause I was pissed. This is God's honest truth. I was pissed. No, I was pissed that this guy Lou Merloni: No, because he did it. The Professor: who had no relationship with any of us had not You know, we came in and and we had goals and we reached our goal. We were number one show in midday. We I that was we never thought that was gonna be capable. We were gonna be capable of doing that. And that was tough. And I was a took pride in that, you know, and I was happy for you, you know, the fact that they fired you, they bring you back, right? And then here you are doing what you've always done. So that that was so aggravating for me, you know. And and I remember Lou Merloni: Well, I mean, you did it for so long. It'd have been different if Wolfie came up, right? That's a guy you had a career The Professor: Yeah. Lou Merloni: with, you know? But it was like this guy that everybody just know for whether it was two weeks, three weeks, or whatever it was, was like, need to have the final segment of this guy's great career. And it's like, you don't even know him. Like, why don't let people who have actually The Professor: God. Unbelievable. Lou Merloni: worked with him and know the guy talk about the last couple of minutes of this freaking show? The Professor: Think about that, Lou. Lou, he was there the whole time. Glenn Ordway: He was there the whole th The Professor: He was there the whole time, just kind of hovering. The whole just hovering. And it's like he was like he's like trying to Glenn Ordway: Whole show, yes. Like lurking, like lurking. Lou Merloni: Which is fine. Yeah. The Professor: jump in. I'm like, I remember sitting there go like pulling like a Heisman. I'm like, somebody get in this dude's way, put a chair there. Cause I could see he wanted to jump in. It Glenn Ordway: No, and Lou Merloni: You know, jump in, jump in hour Glenn Ordway: the funny thing about yeah. Lou Merloni: one. You jump in at the end of hour one or the beginning of hour two. The last five The Professor: Exact yes. Yes. Yeah. Lou Merloni: minutes of this man's radio career, get the fuck off the mic. Like, what are you doing? The Professor: Yeah. I know, it's crazy. Only there. Glenn Ordway: Well the funny thing about it is Mark Cannon was there for the whole broadcast as well. And if Mark Cannon had come up for like five minutes or whatever, I wouldn't have mind because I had worked and spent a lot of time with Mar Cannon. I had Lou Merloni: Exactly. Yeah. Glenn Ordway: known him over the years. I'll get into some of the Mar Cannon stories in in future episodes. But I want to get into the whole COVID thing, guys, because do you remember the day COVID? The Professor: Come on, did we really need to do COVID? Glenn Ordway: Do you rem I d I Lou Merloni: I hate COVID. COVID sucks. The Professor: Are we COVID sucks, nobody wants to hear about COVID. Next segment. Yeah. Glenn Ordway: Well no no no. The reason I want to bring it up is because it was no, Lou Merloni: You a good COVID story? Glenn Ordway: it was so difficult struggling through that period trying to do a radio show. And I remember the day it all started. You remember the day it started? It was Rudy Gobert. That was the day it started. The Professor: No, it was Guys, guys, hey guys, we're all gonna die. Lou, Lou, you gotta get some hands there. We're making it in our house. Glenn Ordway: Well I Lou Merloni: Hey guys, hey guys, we gotta flatten Glenn Ordway: it's it's a Lou Merloni: the curve. We gotta flatten the curve. If we don't flatten the curve, The Professor: Right! He kept saying Fly the curve. Glenn Ordway: Is it? Lou Merloni: we ain't never gonna do a show. The Professor: Can I can't go into the studio? Glenn Ordway: This is what I had to deal with. Holy shit. Lou Merloni: Luckily, I got a studio The Professor: Mm. Lou Merloni: in my house and I can do it from there. I know what you guys gonna do. Glenn Ordway: But it was kind of The Professor: Doug's coming over. my God. Sweating. Glenn Ordway: it it was kind of crazy though that when you look back at it now and we're learning so much more now than we knew then. I mean, think about this. Yeah, that yeah, Lou Merloni: Whether it was all bullshit. Glenn Ordway: that that a lot of it was. Now, some of it might have been just ignorance. We're not sure what we're dealing with here. So let's be more cautious. But right. Lou Merloni: We didn't know. People didn't know. Glenn Ordway: And some of that, but I think when you look back now and see how foolish it was. I mean, literally they had us separated in the studio. We had like markings of where we could sit. Now you couldn't be next to e each other. The ball games. Remember the baseball games where they had cutouts of fans and they had no no nobody in the stands? And we have to go on the next day and talk about these games. It was when you look back at it now, at the time, Lou Merloni: It sucked. Glenn Ordway: right, it sucked. We were doing what we had to do at the time. Everybody was. But when you look back at it right now, It was really foolish. That whole period was just especially for us in the broadcast business was crazy. Except it opened up the door for stuff like this for podcasts. We realized you can do Lou Merloni: yeah. Glenn Ordway: anything from anywhere in the world. You can be in India, you can be anywhere, and you can you can do all this stuff. But Lou Merloni: Well, I remember the whole process people talking about it and you're still doing your shows. And I'm like, yeah, I'm like, you imagine we're doing a sports show, talking four hours, five days a week, and there's no sports. Like there's no sports. Like, The Professor: No. No sports. It's painful. Lou Merloni: you tell me what we're going to do here. There's always that dead period, right? After the Superbowl, spring training, NBA, NHL, there's nothing going on. You're just waiting for the playoffs that month, month and a half. We'd always, every year, like, what are you going to do during this time period? What are we going to do? Come up with something. We got to figure something out. This was what? Months, months upon months of that. The Professor: Do you do you guys remember Glenn Ordway: twenty twenty. The Professor: what because I was doing the show for my basement. I I had all these COVID projects. And I you remember I finished my basement, redid my basement during breaks. During breaks, I was like hardwork flooring it. I was painting. I was like, Glenn Ordway: I remember we'd hear hammering during breaks. The Professor: we weren't talking about anything. It was so lame. We had we did the whole you know mystery guest thing, and that was like we wore we we ran out of guest. you know, but yeah, it changed a lot. Lou Merloni: Deaf. The Professor: Man, I tell you the one thing I don't like talking about. This is my least favorite segment of the big old podcast is COVID talk. I I just despise it. I despise it. It was fun. It's so Glenn Ordway: We're done. We're done. We're done. Lou Merloni: It was fun. That was fun. The Professor: much funnier as when Memory Lou, when when Glenn was like coaching his son's basketball team and he he was trying to teach he was trying to teach the team how to like shuffle and he like tore his calf muscle. I was like, Glenn. I was like, Glenn, you're supposed to tell them, not show them. Glenn Ordway: I was in a boot. Lou Merloni: Well, the weird part was that he had wristbands and a headband The Professor: Yeah. Lou Merloni: on, and it was just like, Ordway, I don't know. I don't know. This is not a good look. I'm not gonna lie to you. I'm not gonna lie to you. But it's the pick and roll. It's the pick and roll, the Glenn Ordway: Jay Williams look. All right. The Professor: my god. Lou Merloni: high pick and roll. Mikhail The Professor: Yeah. Lou Merloni: used to drop back, and then Glenn Ordway: Yeah. Lou Merloni: Larry used to come in, and he'd go over the top to rob it. You gotta run it like the Celtics. The Professor: So little Billy, you're Mikael. Okay. Now, little Johnny, you are Parish. Okay, now what I want you to do. That's that's in my head, that's how I see you coaching. Yeah, that kid is like 26 now. All right. All right. Keep us on track. Glenn Ordway: Yeah, the kid the k the kid that was parish wasn't listening. All right, I I we we've got we we we've gotta get to this. There's more you can bust my balls. You'll have plenty of time to bust my balls. Lou Merloni: I'm Yeah. Yeah. Glenn Ordway: I I got I I've gotta get to somebody who was part of my show for over twenty years, and he was a part of our show, your show, for a few years as well. And that is Bill Belichick. I gotta Lou Merloni: Mm. Glenn Ordway: get to it. I I wanna throw this out because this was the latest that happened. Yesterday, Steve Belichick has resigned at North Carolina's defensive coordinator amid the conclusion, which is interesting, of an internal investigation into the football program's culture under his father. UNC announced the findings of its investigation Thursday in connection with Belichick's resignation, saying in a statement that the probe revealed isolated disregard for values and standards of conduct. Lou Merloni: So, Glenn Ordway: These actions were isolated in scope and not a s systemic failure. Well, I think it was a s systemic failure. But the investigation, guys, was a wide ranging and it included sex between the staff and players, as well as drug use within the program. Now, Steve Belichick resigns. He's under medical leave right now, which could have something to do with drugs. We're not sure. We don't know. But they will not give you the reason in which Steve Belichick has resigned, yet it's floated out Lou Merloni: Okay. Glenn Ordway: there sex between staff and players and other staff members and drugs. How vague is that? What what does this do to Steve Belichick right now? Lou Merloni: Okay. The Professor: What does it do to him? I mean Glenn Ordway: Nobody knows what he got what was it? Lou Merloni: I just keep thinking about that meme that people are throwing out there, right, with him in his hands and looking at the sidelines and his tongue is like flying out of his mouth and people are like, no Glenn Ordway: Yes. Lou Merloni: way, this guy's taking drugs? You know, like, and I don't know whether it is, whether alleged or not, but it's not good because both of these guys, you The Professor: That's true. Yeah. Lou Merloni: know, they follow their dad down to Carolina and it's sort of like you're waiting for them to just sort of be their own men, you know, and it's sort of like you still can't control, something's going wrong under your dad's control, right? It's just a bad situation for him, for a guy that wants to kind of stay in football. We don't know the details of it, but it's a bad, bad look. I think for everybody involved down in Carolina, that's kind of turned into a shit show down there. The Professor: Dude, it is a it is a god. That that I Glenn Ordway: And your best buddy, Christian, Mike Lombardi. He's already out. He was your best buddy. We had him on every week. Lou Merloni: That guy. The Professor: I always say out of out of all the guests that we've had, I think I probably hated him the most. I I Glenn Ordway: You did. The Professor: remember like the morning show, they just they just ripped him and he he he tapped out. Like Kirk and Jerry, they were just riding him so much that he tapped out. And I I don't even know who was in charge back at those days. I think it was Joe. And Joe was like, Hey, can you guys just have him on? And we were like, I mean, fine. We hated him. He would come on our show and he would just glad hand Bill and make excuses for Bill. It was the biggest gaslighting interview I think we would we would do during the week. And then he would go on other shows and then just rip everybody. He was he was so just affected by Bill. It drove us nuts. We're so happy that he was done. We couldn't be happier that we didn't have to interview this guy because he he was so arrogant. He was so just he thought he was just so much smarter and every reference had something to do with the green berets or the frickin' navy seals. And this dude has never thrown a Glenn Ordway: Or Springsteen. The Professor: punch or worked out in his life. Are you kidding me? Lou Merloni: Well, I mean, it worked for Glenn Ordway: Yeah, or Spring Stadium. Yeah. Lou Merloni: him. It worked for him, right? Like all those years, I got in that gig down in North Carolina. The man wrote a book and it was entitled Football Genius. Okay. But I'm just saying, The Professor: he d listen, if you didn't know, he'll tell you. I work with Bill Walsh. Lou Merloni: what should be the title of your book? Well. I football genius. I mean, obviously, because that's who I am. He was arrogant. The Professor: That's not taken. Yeah. Lou Merloni: He was condescending. It was one of those like, yeah, I heard you guys asking Bill why he punted on third. How dare you ask Bill? That's Bill Belichick. Who do you think The Professor: Yeah. yeah. Lou Merloni: you are asking questions? It's like, shut up you. You're only on here because we have to have you. I don't want anything to do The Professor: No, I know. Lou Merloni: with you. Anything. Glenn Ordway: I think he was a guy when you when you talk about he he wanted to be smarter than i anybody else, I think he was a fairly smart guy and I think he was fairly smart when it came to football. But having said all of that, I still think he's one of the biggest bullshit artists I think I've ever met in my life. Because he would add on to that instead of just accepting, okay, you got some pretty good football credentials and go with it. You're doing your gambling The Professor: You've had him. Glenn Ordway: shows, you're you know, you got a media empire working for you. But he there was just that asshole in him that he couldn't help himself, that if you said something, you would see that look on his face like Well, really, that's not exactly and he would he would do a lot. I want to get to Bill though, because I I I must tell you, I never thought Lou Merloni: My guy. Glenn Ordway: I never you're guys We're gonna we're gonna get we're gonna get to to the to the interviews next here. Because The Professor: We gotta get to our post show discussions. my god. Glenn Ordway: I will tell you this that I never thought, and Bill's going to get into the Hall of Fame. He will get in this year. It is almost as if they are redoing all of the process for the Hall of Fame right now. So that's so so they don't get right. They don't get embarrassed The Professor: They kicked Pauline out. Glenn Ordway: and they don't and Bill Belichick doesn't get rejected once again. But he's done a lot of this damage to himself. Here was the kicker for me, and you guys tell me, because we did the show every Monday with him. At the beginning I remember the first couple of weeks, Lou wanted to be the tough guy and the and the dog, and it was good. He was the watchdog and he said, You had to be because Christian I was I had a really good he was scared. Lou Merloni: I didn't want to be, I had to be. You were best friends with him. Christian Playform won Super Bowls, although it's still a coach-player relationship. You were like off the field buddies with him, and I'm sitting there going, The Professor: yeah. Lou Merloni: all right, why didn't you play Malcolm Butler? Like, I gotta The Professor: Yeah. Lou Merloni: be that guy. Glenn Ordway: Lou, we're only worried about San Diego this week. We're not. But Christian was scared shitless of him. He felt like he was still back in the locker room. And that, you know, Bill had control of him. And you're right, I The Professor: I'll let you have your moment. Go ahead. Glenn Ordway: had a good relationship with him. And so I was kinder to him. And so you had to be the the the dog. And you were, and you were great at it. You really were, even though Bill didn't answer a lot of those questions. But Lou Merloni: No. Glenn Ordway: here's the one, and you tell me, spending all that time with Bill, the one that got me from which I said, This is not the same guy. He's doing that interview with CBS. He's got his 24-year-old girlfriend, Jordan Hudson, with him now, that apparently Lou Merloni: Yeah. Glenn Ordway: is running the whole interview. And now listen, I I'm not gonna get into the whole relationship, whatever. My wife is a little bit younger than I am. Not 50 years younger, but you know, a few years younger. But if Bill wants to do that, so be it. Do it. I do what you want. But now. A guy that has always had total control of everything he does, of every aspect of the organization, he's going to allow this 24 year old kid from Bridgewater State to come in and stop the middle of an interview at CBS and say that's not an appropriate question. You can't answer that. I must tell you, in all the interviews we did, Birge, who was his Bill's assistant, Birge, Stacy James. The Professor: Yeah. Glenn Ordway: Who was the PR director? They were always there, always around Bill when Bill came into the studio to do this Monday interview with us. None of them ever said a single word. And I will guarantee you, if any one of them jumped in and said, Hey, Lou, you can't ask that butler question. We're not going there, Bill would have told them to shut the fuck up and get out of the room. I that was the moment Lou Merloni: But But. Glenn Ordway: when Jordan Hudson did that CBS halt into the interview. And then everybody saw the video. That's when I said, The man's lost his balls. The Professor: Or maybe someone has found them for him and is, yeah, you know, to me, it's Lou Merloni: you The Professor: powerful. Lou Merloni: Yeah. The Professor: Very powerful. An attractive being. of course. Here Glenn Ordway: Weren't you shocked at that? Weren't you shocked at that that she had taken over the interview? The Professor: it's you know what? Glenn Ordway: And he allowed it. The Professor: Again, it you know, the one thing about Bill is is is is as much as you think you kinda can predict like what he's going to do, because we've we knew what he was gonna do even when we were interviewing him. And you know, like he's this aspect of his life I know nothing about. I know nothing about it. I and I just know it's like, you know, you build a career. And then this is how it ends. Like I I would be kind of like more protective of it. If it was me, I would be more protective of it. At least I think I would be, you know, but I'm not 80 years old. I don't know. I mean, so to me, that was that whole situation down there is just is interesting because it just shows you how different college football is and you know how you win how you Glenn Ordway: today it's crazy. The Professor: win in that level. Lou Merloni: God The Professor: And it's less about talent, it's more about money now. And we can go on and on about it. But I would say this, Glenn, you would you would have a better idea. Like I haven't talked to Bill since I, you know, since the last time we interviewed him. And believe me, Lou, Lou and I hated those interviews. Hate Dread, we used to leave those, we used to leave the stadium and we would just Lou Merloni: man! The Professor: dog cuss him and we would be, yeah, I'm a man. Who's this guy thinking he's talking to? He's so rude. Like, why do we put up with this trap? Lou Merloni: You know what? I just look at what's going on now and I just think it's sad, right? Because I hated those interviews. And I hated doing them, to be honest with you, because I hated the way it made me feel about the man. You know, I know how he deals with media and everything else. And it did all change, by the way, when we stopped interviewing him in person. Okay, because when we were down to Gillette and we started interviewing him, he would come in and there would at least be like three minutes of human, you know, of talk, of back and forth. And then we would do the interview and all of a sudden, it would be Bill. But when we started stop seeing him in person and having those moments before or after and humanize it a little bit, and it was just radio, all we got was this. And I think Bill Belichick's the greatest coach of all time. I think he's an absolute football genius. I was a fan of the Patriots. I loved the New England Patriots. I loved Tom Brady. I loved Bill Belichick. And I hated the way it ended because it was like, this is now how I feel about it because of my job, like these interviews. Like I would stress out the night before. You'd ask him a simple question. I listen to interviews now and I'm like, if those guys asked Bill Belichick that question, they would have got slapped in the face or a Glenn Ordway: Yes. Lou Merloni: look or just treated like you were a two year old. The Professor: Just nothing. Yeah, just nothing. Lou Merloni: And I hate the fact that this generation, people my age remember Bill and the Patriots and who they are. There's another generation that's gonna remember North Carolina Bill and dating this 24 year old. and being strung along and everyone in the sidelines in a different uniform every single day. And it's just their memory of Bill is so different than mine that I refuse to allow the change given how I felt about those interviews. Like when it was over, I'm like, whatever. He's still the great Bill Belichick to me. know, even though I hated Glenn Ordway: Well you've got yeah. Lou Merloni: it, I absolutely hated it. Glenn Ordway: It was rough on Mondays. And as you guys already pointed out, I had a very good relationship with him, though I was never invited down to the house in Nantucket. By the way, Felger was down there, I believe, on numerous occasions. I was never invited down there. my my wife The Professor: Wow, he took your spot, huh? Glenn Ordway: my wife was very friendly with his former girlfriend because Bill lived nearby Linda holiday, because Lou Merloni: Mm-hmm. Glenn Ordway: he lived nearby where we lived. on the South Shore. Bill and and Linda did. So they became fairly good friends or whatever. So yes, the relationship was there, but it didn't help me in the interview. It wasn't like Bill gave me inside information. He never gave me shit. You know, I never got any of that stuff. But here's what I don't understand and I do I did talk to a few Lou Merloni: Christian, I'd ask about Malcolm Butler and it'd be very tense and in order it'd be like, but your special teams was really good that day. I loved the way you defended the punt. Let's talk Navy, Army, football game. The Professor: No. Here's here's what Gl yeah. Here's what here's what Glenn Glenn, you gotta be honest. You gotta be honest. Okay. You're Glenn Ordway: He never gave me the he never gave me the Malcolm Butler story. Yes, I'll be honest. This is an honest podcast. Lou Merloni: Yes. The Professor: not yeah, you don't owe anybody anybody, you're not serving anybody, nobody's paying you, right? Glenn Ordway: Correct. The Professor: You you had a ton of inside information on r almost all sports, probably not hockey, definitely basketball with the Celtics, definitely Glenn Ordway: Yes. Basketball, yes. The Professor: you you know, Mer Lou, remember Lou Merloni: For me, it was the hockey guy. The Professor: when You remember when we would yeah, I'm the hockey guy. You remember when we'd have our like pre-show talks and and Glenn would be spitting all this information and this and that and I know this and I'm and he'd be like, we're like, well then say it then. He'd be like, I'm gonna say it. Show would start. You and I would be sitting back with our feet up, going, Okay, say it, big boy. Nope. Just completely just whimped out. He whimped out. Glenn Ordway: That's why I'm coming back. I'm gonna say it now. The Professor: You did not right, Lou, and Mike, can you cosign on this? Was he constantly Lou Merloni: Yeah. The Professor: bragging about all this inside information and then he refused to use it? Yeah, here, come on. He's gonna do it. Lou Merloni: No, because he was leading up to it and we're like, here it is, he's gonna say it. He was leading up to it and all of sudden he would just stop short and he would look at you and me we're The Professor: Yeah. Right, Lou? Lou Merloni: like, you gonna say it or should we start talking now? Glenn Ordway: Well when it comes to Bill when it comes to The Professor: It would never say it. They credit to you, Glenn, for protecting your sources, buddy. Glenn Ordway: when it comes to when it comes to Bill When it comes to Bill, Lou Merloni: Mm-hmm. Glenn Ordway: I got more out of friends of Bill than I did out of Bill. Matter of fact, the last time I've talked to him was be just before the North Carolina gig. He was doing media and he was doing McAfee show. He was swearing, he was kind of being a normal natural guy. The Professor: so cool. Yeah. Lou Merloni: Yeah. The Professor: look at him. Glenn Ordway: And and and and I th I think he was doing something nobody thought that he could do, and that is be a member of the media and be somebody that you had to turn the TV on to watch. He became that for that year. He was an interesting guy to watch on television. At that point, you've had a Hall of Fame career. You're now liked by people because he wasn't liked by a lot of the media before that. Now people are kind of saying, you know, Bill's a decent guy now. Look at him on TV. It's all, you know, character stuff. At that point, you're right, Christian. Why don't you just move on to Canton, Lou Merloni: Yeah. Glenn Ordway: Ohio and just say, it is I'm done. So when it when the Lou Merloni: He was so good at that. Wasn't that the 100th anniversary team or something like that that he was sitting in on? And he was breaking down Glenn Ordway: It w it was phenomenal. They won an Emmy for it. Lou Merloni: every generation. I only had heard of. He was talking about them, talking about the covered players. He was so good at that. And then that's why I say, don't like this. I don't like anything about this right now and how this thing is going and how people kind of look at them, how people talk about them. I just don't... I don't know, it's a bad taste in my mouth. Glenn Ordway: Yeah, I was shocked when I heard the rumors about North Carolina. So the first thing I did is pick up the phone and call one of his buddies. And I said, Have you seen these rumors out there? Bill's gonna go to North Carolina. Cause they were talking about Atlanta in the the Falcons. They were talking about the commanders as a possibility. And, you know, Bill's up there and aged. As you know, Christian, that's Not what the NFL is looking for now. They're looking for young, vibrant coaches. That's what the Sean McVay has kind of changed how they look at coaches in the National Football League. We can get them in their 30s. They can relate to the players. So Bill didn't have a shot at that point of getting an NFL job. And I said to the guy, I said, Is he really going to take that North Korea? He goes, You won't believe it, Glenn. He is. He is lost. He misses coaching so badly. He needs to do it. And that's where they came up with that whole bullshit line that Mike Lombardi threw out there. We're gonna be the thirty-third NFL team. Do you remember that? That was part of it because that was Bill's entry back. The Professor: Thirty third. Of course it came from him. Of course it came. Of course. Lou Merloni: my god, yeah. my God. Well, he, The Professor: Yeah. Lou Merloni: Mike really thought that he was going to do that. And that's the sad part about it. But especially if you talk about going back to college football, given the state of it, like guys are leaving. mean, is it one phone call to Nick Saban? Like your boy and be like, Nick, I'm thinking about diving in. He's like, well, I'm diving out because it's bullshit. It's portal. It's NIL. You don't want anything to do with this. It's a new team every year. And that's the info people are leaving. Like old coaches are leaving college because it's a train wreck, you know, and Bill's going into it. Glenn Ordway: Now what do you think why do you think Sabin got out? Yeah, Sabin got out for that reason. Say you can't Lou Merloni: Yeah, Bill's going into it? Makes no sense. Glenn Ordway: con you can't control, and I know you're doing a a show that deals with the football right now as well, Christian, but the you can't but I don't know how I don't know how The Professor: I don't cover I don't I want nothing to do with college football. I want nothing to do with it. Glenn Ordway: you can control the kids when if you want to take a quarterback and say to them, you need to work on this, you need to work on fundamentals. Screw you, coach. Season's done. I'm going to LSU because Kiffin will have me and give me five million dollars. I don't need you. I mean, how could Bill Lou Merloni: No. Glenn Ordway: even deal with that? And that he loved being able to control professional players who were making like Preety who are making twenty-five, thirty The Professor: I know, right? Yeah. Glenn Ordway: million dollars a year. And Bill even had more difficulty. I don't know if you saw it a couple of days ago. Two of his players got picked up speeding in a car. One of had a gun. There was marijuana in the in the car as well. So those two players have got suspended. This is the type of shit that Bill's gonna deal with. Lou Merloni: you Glenn Ordway: He's gonna be a babysitter down there. The Professor: I would say that the issues that he had with the Patriots were ten times worse. I mean, let's start, let's line up all the issues that he had you know, with the Patriots as far as, you know, controversies and, you know, conflicts. Glenn Ordway: To play game. The Professor: I mean, there's that's it goes on Lou Merloni: Aaron Hernandez. The Professor: and on and on. I mean, there's just the list is so long. Listen, the the college, yeah, I would just say when it comes to college, I just don't appreciate the college game. I just don't like it. I just I only want to talk NFL. I only want to focus on the NFL game and the NFL teams. That's it. I feel like it's just it's just so much better. And also, I can't keep track. Like you get no relationship with the players to your point because they constantly leave. But that's just the way the business is. I mean, I've dealt with all these coaches. I've had grown create relationships with these college coaches. And I always ask them, like, dude, how can you do this? This is the worst job. Glenn Ordway: Money. The Professor: This is the worst job. Glenn Ordway: Money. The Professor: Well, yeah. The goal is to is to get hired by one of these SEC schools. You know, work for their work for them for two years and then get fired. Right. And Glenn Ordway: Exactly. The Professor: then you you have, you know, sixty million dollars that they're owing you. So yeah, to me Lou Merloni: But he's the thing is too he's also at a school that's like a feeder system You know what mean? Like year one people like Bill Belichick's there Let's go there and off he develops somebody they're leaving they're leaving the ACC they're going over to SEC like he's It's a feeder system. Like how's he gonna handle developing a kid only to watch him say, thanks coach, but I'm getting $4 million to go to the SEC. Like, why would you wanna be part of that? The Professor: And not for nothing. And hold on. And not for nothing. Okay. There's other college coaches that are better than him. There are other college coaches in college Lou Merloni: at that level, yeah. The Professor: that are better than him as a college coach. Now, could they coach in the pros? I don't know. But there's a long list. Dan Lanning, Kirby Smart, just I mean, just start start listing them off. The the guy that's at it's my point is that but they're they're Glenn Ordway: I don't know. Dan Lannings had a fur a a a bad first two games here, but yeah. The Professor: Their personalities and their demeanor and their and their character and what they're teaching and how they're teaching it and the the messages that they send. And I listen, I'm just saying from an X is an O standpoint, like, you know, only goes so far when when the when the when the deck is stacked against you, I don't care how smart you are, because it's players, not plays anymore. My players are better than your players. And that's and so I don't care how Lou Merloni: Yeah. The Professor: smart you are. My my player who's six four. 220, he runs a four three. You got some corner out there. That's decent, right? He's a D one guy, but he ain't gonna stop my guy. So I don't care how inside leverage, blah, blah, blah, all twenty-two. It doesn't matter. So, and you know, what he needs is you know, Michael Jordan to just drop a boatload of cash and go buy every single player for one year and and they're all gonna be twenty four or twenty five. So they'll have a there'll be a massive age gap. They'll just be mature and they'll just bully everybody. Lou Merloni: Yeah. Glenn Ordway: Yeah, think Bill's I think Bill's thirst to just go out there and do this coaching job has just hurt his whole reputation. I think he could have walked away with that media game. He could have walked no, he of course he's gonna be fine. The legacy doesn't change, The Professor: He'll be fine. He'll be fine. He'll be fine. Yeah. Lou Merloni: you Glenn Ordway: okay? The chapters change a little bit, but the legacy doesn't change. He's still, as Lou already referred to him, as the greatest Lou Merloni: Well, you say that though, Glenn Ordway: NFL coach. Lou Merloni: but you say that and it doesn't change to us, okay? But if you're a 25 year old kid, you know, what is that legacy? You know, what do you remember? Do you remember Bill Belichick, The Professor: Nothing. Lou Merloni: you know, stopping Peyton Manning offenses? Do you remember those days? You know, or is now the discussion more of it was all Tom Brady? You know, I mean, we can time that conversation out. Brady, Belichick, everything. We both know, we all know that it was both of them. You know what I mean? But for different reasons. But I'm just saying, you're talking about like legacy hasn't changed. I think it kind of will. I think a lot of people will view him differently as the years go on with how this thing ended, with how this thing ends at North Carolina. And I think that's the sad part. If you don't end it. and just say, this is who I am, it's time to move on and do media, then the book isn't closed yet on you. And people look at you Glenn Ordway: He Lou Merloni: a little bit differently. Glenn Ordway: he he really needed somebody other than this twenty-four-year-old woman advising him. He needed somebody The Professor: Needed you. Needed you. Glenn Ordway: to say to him, Bill, Lou Merloni: See you road, bye. The Professor: You need it you need a Nordway. Glenn Ordway: Bill, my services were available, but he didn't call. No, The Professor: He didn't take advantage of it. Glenn Ordway: he didn't. But you could have walked away doing this media stuff, and everybody, everywhere you went, would have been kissing your ass. Not just Lombardi kissing your ass, but everybody would have been kissing your ass. Saying you're the greatest ever. I want to give one more inside thing on Bill Belichick that you guys can understand. Lou already mentioned it earlier. Lou would come up with the tough questions, and I will give Lou all the credit in the world. He sat down and he had them all down. And he might have given five tough questions. He had he he practiced. He practiced them. He had The Professor: He would we would practice. We would practice. I'ma I'm gonna say it like this. Lou Merloni: It was all about the follow ups. No, was all, honest to God, it was all about the follow ups, because he never answered anything. So you had The Professor: Yeah. Yeah. Lou Merloni: to follow it up, Glenn Ordway: Okay, but Lou Merloni: and then you get pissed off because you follow it up, because nobody usually follows up. And then you really get pissed. The Professor: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Glenn Ordway: Correct, correct. Lou, we're right. Lou, we're talking about this game. That's all we're talking about. But the thing is, I've never seen anybody that I've ever interviewed over the years, and I don't know if you guys have, that wear their emotion on their sleeve more than Bill Belichick. If it was a loss against the Jets, he would be so miserable on that Monday interview that he would literally be answering questions and not just lose, but mine and Christians with a yep. No. He wouldn't answer anything, okay? Then there would be other days in which he'd be happy. He would really push back on the questions that Lou was asking, but then we would be done with the interview. Okay, thank you, coach. Good luck this Sunday, and we'll see you here next Monday. We go to the break. We can't get him out of the studio. He's sitting there and he's chewing our ears off. Now, the good thing in radio. Good thing in radio or the bad thing in radio right now, they have like seven and eight minute commercial breaks. They don't have them in podcasting. But we had long breaks. So Bill was able to just talk and talk and talk. And I'm sitting there going, Why didn't we get any of this in the last 40 minutes that we just recorded? And he's giving us everything. And then literally we come back on the air and Bill's still talking and we're going, Bill, we got to go. Bill, we're back on the air. Do you remember that? The Professor: See, to I I do, I do, because like every now and then like the red light would go on and and we were like, you should probably just go to a commercial again, right? Because he's not leaving and he doesn't want this on air. And the conversation is really interesting, but we can't put it on there, which is what we wanted to anyways. But that was one aspect of those. I I I do remember the one thing that used to drive me nuts Glenn Ordway: They used to drive me. The Professor: was less even less it was the player interviews. Like we had the worst player interviews. Glenn Ordway: They were terrible. The Professor: History of a like we used to we used to interview Danny Amendola and then we would interview Julian Edelman. Danny Glenn Ordway: Julian Edelman, yeah. The Professor: would come into the studio, and we literally thought he had some sort of anxiety disorder. He just was like weirded out, he was always like preoccupied, he wouldn't say anything. It's like somebody Lou Merloni: Yeah. The Professor: had a red dot on him, and like and he would just leave. I'm like, dude, what's wrong with that guy? Then he leaves, he's got this massive personality, he's you know, he's just Lou Merloni: I know, I know. Glenn Ordway: Yeah. The Professor: He was great. And we're like, where the hell is that guy? Why, why Lou Merloni: Yeah. The Professor: wouldn't that guy, even Edelman, who turned into a massive hard o with us a couple times, and we were just like, all right, we're done with this guy as well. But he's a media darling, you know? So Lou Merloni: Yeah. The Professor: he always had personality. I mean, Trey Flowers, you know who was the Glenn Ordway: A The Professor: worst? The worst. my god, like now I can't remember his name. Gerard Mayo. Glenn Ordway: Senior moment. The Professor: Gerard Mayo was the worst. Glenn Ordway: Gerard Mayo was not good. Wasn't wasn't great as a head coach either. Yeah. The Professor: It was the worst. But but he was it was almost like a joke it was a joke for him. It was it was a joke Lou Merloni: They're scared to say anything. The Professor: for him. He was just he like knew he wasn't saying anything. I think our interviews with him were like thirty seconds and we just he wasn't doing anything. Lou Merloni: Well, mean, they were trained to the point where they were doing an interview imagining Bill sitting next to them. I mean, that's kind of like probably the The Professor: Yeah. Exactly. Lou Merloni: thought that they had. So yeah, those player interviews were awful. And Glenn, to your point, as I said before, that was the worst thing that ever happened to this sort of relationship with Bill, is that there was no more personal interaction. He would come in during the break, we'd spend five minutes, he'd ask me how the Red Sox are doing, or ask me a question about the Red Sox and how do they look this year and everything else, and then the interview would be over and he'd keep talking to Christian about, know, playoffs at Super Bowls years ago, so was like you saw the human side of him. So you could deal The Professor: Lou. Lou Merloni: with the interview, but it was just without that, you know, Christian and I are sitting there, you know, pissed off after interviews, the way he treats you. And I'm like, you know, I'm married. I have a son. You know what I mean? Like who the hell do you think he is? Like, you know, who The Professor: I'm a man. Lou Merloni: the fuck do you think I am? You know, like treat me with a touch of respect, right? But no, it just wasn't happening. The Professor: Lou, do you re Glenn? You should you you can co-sign on this. So don't don't even answer Lou because Lou mentioned the Red Sox, right? And when Lou would ask him questions and Bill would just shoot him down and just become massively disrespectful, there was like during the breaks, I think Bill felt guilty for being a jerk. And and he would you know you know introduce a Red Sox like discussion to like almost Glenn Ordway: Yes. Yep. The Professor: Like a like a peace offering to Lou so he wasn't as mad at him for how we treated him during a football interview. I am I right on that? Lou Merloni: Yeah, but that's what I'm saying. Without that, Glenn Ordway: Yes. No, no questions. Lou Merloni: was simply on the phone, interview, bill, know, like interview style bill, and then you click and you would just be like, you know, but that's why I say that before and after those interviews, when we were down at Gillette in person, they were fine. It's just that those stopped happening and all we got them was on the phone. And that's when it was bad. Glenn Ordway: So you so it it almost happened that you guys never had the opportunity to do that show with Bill on Mondays because I believe it was two thousand and five. I think it was two thousand and five. We're doing the interview with Bill, and it was Fred and Steve at the time. And Bill Belichick's son Brian gets picked up for underage drinking. Was it at the lacrosse championships or one of those country music? festivals at Gillette or whatever. And it's a front page story in the Boston Herald the next day. Lou Merloni: Okay. Glenn Ordway: So we're going down to interview Bill that day. And that morning, Dennis and Callahan talk about it. But in all fairness, Lou Merloni: Thank Glenn Ordway: you may remember this Lou. They didn't talk about it an awful lot. They mention it because they were doing a show that wasn't just sports. It was the front page Lou Merloni: Yeah. Glenn Ordway: of the Globe and the Herald and they brought it up. It was news. You had to bring Lou Merloni: Yeah. Glenn Ordway: it up. I they didn't sit there and rip the kid. I mean, come on, we've all been there at 17 years of age and we've all had, you know, a couple beers during that period of time. So nobody was being judgmental. I get a phone call from the station and they say, Bill Belichick just quit Patriots Monday. I said, I said, what? He quit Patriots Monday because he's pissed that the station on the morning was talking about the whole situation with his kid getting picked up for Lou Merloni: Yeah. Glenn Ordway: underage drinking. So At that point, they say, you have to go down there and talk to him. So this is where having a good relationship with Bill Belichick didn't help me out, Christian, because Lou Merloni: Works. Yeah. Glenn Ordway: the station's sitting there going, well, we want nothing to do with it. Or you get your fat ass down to Floxboro early Lou Merloni: You The Professor: Yeah. Go kiss the ring. Yeah. Glenn Ordway: and go talk go talk to Belichick Lou Merloni: Yes. Glenn Ordway: and get him back in the fold. The Professor: Yeah. Glenn Ordway: So I go down there and I d Bill came down toward where the studio was and he was fucking livid. Okay. And I I tried to play the compassionate father, other father role. Bill, I Lou Merloni: Yeah. Glenn Ordway: know what you're talking about. My daughter goes to those country festivals and I'm sure she's been drinking a little bit. And she was just one of the lucky ones that didn't get picked up. Cause I think that night there were like fifty or sixty kids that were arrested that night, Lou Merloni: Mm-hmm. Glenn Ordway: along with his son, his son Brian. He is screaming, call me every name in the book. I said, Bill, we're not bringing it up in the interview. All right. So don't worry about it. We're not going to bring it up right now. Finally he says, Well, this is bullshit. I'm not, I I I don't need to to do the show. And I finally said, Okay, I understand you as a father being really upset, but I'm gonna tell you Lou Merloni: Mm-hmm. Glenn Ordway: this right now. If you don't show up, what am I going to say to the public? What am I gonna say? And guess what? He left, The Professor: Here comes the wisdom. Yeah. I think I see what you did there. I see what you did. Lou Merloni: Yeah. Glenn Ordway: he took off in a huff and puff. A few hours later, he showed up and he did the interview. Lou Merloni: Yeah, because then it's going to be a bigger story. Glenn Ordway: And The rest is history. You got the opportunity to spend six or seven years with Bill Belichick on Mondays. Hey, this was fun, guys. I had a blast. Lou Merloni: I loved it. Yeah, I have to actually get going, but I appreciate it. It's always great seeing you guys. Glenn Ordway: You wanna do it on a weekly basis? You wanna come back and spend some time? The Professor: This has been the Lou Merloni: I'll do it again. The Professor: best part of my week. I and the the problem is, like we're never gonna have enough time to fit in all the stories that we got. And we didn't even talk about the about the live sports. We got a lot more to get to. Lou Merloni: That was just Bill Belichick's Glenn Ordway: You know what? You know what, Fourier? Put it on your calendar. We're doing it again next week. Lou, we're doing it again next week. The Professor: Done. Done. Hold on. Lou Merloni: Alright. The Professor: Hold on. Dunsky. Lou Merloni: Donski is right. Glenn Ordway: I never thought I never thought I would hear that word ever again in my life and I just heard it. Guys, it it was great. Great catching up with you. This is fun. See ya. Bye bye. Bye. The Professor: Well, there you go. All right, boys. All right. All right. Lou Merloni: Alright boys, great seeing you. Yes, absolutely.