Latest / Broken Record with Rick Rubin, Malcolm Gladwell, Bruce Headlam and Justin Richmond / Daryl Hall

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Daryl Hall · Broken Record with Rick Rubin, Malcolm Gladwell, Bruce Headlam and Justin Richmond

• 0:15
  Speaker 1: Pushkin. Hey, this is Justin Richmond from the Broken Record podcast.
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: Join me this June for a live taping of Broken
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: Record at the Tribeca Festival, where I'll be in conversation
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: with Infinity Song, a New York based soft rock band
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: comprised of four siblings who will also be doing a
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: couple of songs for us. You'll hear the artist and
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: a career spanning conversation about their inspirations and dynamic styles.
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: We'll be at the SVA Theater on June twelve at
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: eight thirty pm. Defind tickets. Visit tribecafilm dot com slash
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: Broken Record all lowercase. That's tribecafilm dot com slash Broken Record.
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: Hope to see there. Dare I say? Darylhall is one
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: of the great pop songwriters of our time as half
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: of the duo Hall and Oates, who was all over
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: the charts in the seventies and eighties from Sarah Smile
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: to Rich Girl to You Make My Dreams and Man Eater,
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: But beyond the hits and the pop chart is a gifted,
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: soulful writer and player of all sorts of songs. In
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: this episode of Broken Record, I talk with Daryl Hall
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: about his early days entrenched in Phillies armb scene, his
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: stint on Electra records with his band Gulliver that found
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: him being label mates with The Doors, how he wrote
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: classics like She's Gone Off, Abandoned, Leschenette, his partially shelved
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: album with Robert Fripp, and his latest album d a
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: collaboration between him and Dave Stewart of the Rhythmics. This
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: is broken record, real musicians, real conversations. This episode is
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: brought to you by Defender, a vehicle engineered to meet
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: challenges head on so you can explore with confidence. Adventure
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: Seekers and risk takers can explore the full Defender lineup
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: at land ROVERUSA dot com. Here's my conversation with Daryl Hall.
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: How you doing, I'm doing well.
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: How are you?
• 2:04
  Speaker 3: I'm doing okay? I overworked. I'm overworked, but I'm good.
• 2:08
  Speaker 3: Got it.
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: You gotta say some time to relax.
• 2:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah. One, I'd like to know when that is.
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: Do you do you find being busy or not having
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: it enough to do impacts your songwriting, your creativity.
• 2:25
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a funny thing. I'm either too busy or
• 2:27
  Speaker 3: I'm a champion at the bit it's one or the other.
• 2:31
  Speaker 3: I'm either sitting here reading my book and go on,
• 2:33
  Speaker 3: oh fuck, you know what am I doing? Or I'm
• 2:36
  Speaker 3: overworked and I'm might pull my hair out.
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: You know what books do you typically read?
• 2:42
  Speaker 3: Oh? I read Jesus depending on my you know, if
• 2:45
  Speaker 3: I just want to relax, I read, you know, like
• 2:47
  Speaker 3: Michael Connelly books and things like that, James L. Roy,
• 2:51
  Speaker 3: you know. But you know I read for information. I
• 2:54
  Speaker 3: read constantly. Is what I do?
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: Is fiction a source of inspiration for you at all?
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: And when it comes to music.
• 3:01
  Speaker 3: Who is writing is a source of inspiration? A turn
• 3:05
  Speaker 3: of phrase, I might twist it around my own way,
• 3:09
  Speaker 3: adapt it to something I'm thinking about, use it in
• 3:12
  Speaker 3: a song. I do that all the time. I hardly ever,
• 3:16
  Speaker 3: actually basically never pull something directly from an author, but
• 3:20
  Speaker 3: I'll use it in in some some form that is
• 3:26
  Speaker 3: part of the expression that I'm trying to achieve, in
• 3:29
  Speaker 3: a verse or even maybe sometimes in a chorus.
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: Is there an example that comes to mind? Oh?
• 3:35
  Speaker 3: Yeah, like say it isn't So that's an obvious one,
• 3:39
  Speaker 3: you know, It's just it's just part of my and
• 3:41
  Speaker 3: also I log it in my head. I might read
• 3:45
  Speaker 3: read a phrase and remember it. At some point, it'll
• 3:50
  Speaker 3: come back to me as I'm as I'm looking for
• 3:53
  Speaker 3: looking for something in a lyric.
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: How often do you listen to music?
• 3:58
  Speaker 3: I am not a good audience. I don't really listen
• 4:01
  Speaker 3: to music. I I make it. You know, I have
• 4:05
  Speaker 3: so much music in my head that I I only
• 4:09
  Speaker 3: don't care to hear things for what? For pleasure? I
• 4:13
  Speaker 3: guess you'd call it. I mean I listened for information. Occasionally,
• 4:16
  Speaker 3: I hear things. You know, if I'm in out and
• 4:21
  Speaker 3: about and I hear something come on, I might log
• 4:24
  Speaker 3: in my head and listen to it, say, well that's
• 4:26
  Speaker 3: pretty good, that kind of thing. But I don't sit
• 4:28
  Speaker 3: around and listen to the radio. I don't, Like I said,
• 4:30
  Speaker 3: I'm not a very good audience around.
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: When did you hit that saturation point where you're like,
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: I have enough music in my head that I don't
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: need to sit around listening anymore.
• 4:40
  Speaker 3: It's hard to say. You know, I was when I
• 4:43
  Speaker 3: was a kid and a teenager or whatever, I was
• 4:46
  Speaker 3: a sponge. You know, all I did was was collect
• 4:49
  Speaker 3: records and listen to records and do it all that
• 4:51
  Speaker 3: kind of thing. I don't know, I guess it was
• 4:54
  Speaker 3: after a while where this became a way of life
• 4:58
  Speaker 3: and experiences and music in general, and life experiences started
• 5:02
  Speaker 3: building in my head. That's when I stopped listening outside
• 5:06
  Speaker 3: of well I need to sometimes. I obviously with life
• 5:10
  Speaker 3: from Darrels House, I listened to I listened to an
• 5:12
  Speaker 3: artist that's going to be on the show, and I
• 5:14
  Speaker 3: listened to their work and I try to get it
• 5:16
  Speaker 3: inside their head and figure out how they work. And
• 5:20
  Speaker 3: in that case, I am an audience. But I'm quite
• 5:24
  Speaker 3: sure when that all started happening, because.
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: Like when you were a young kid used to hang
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: out at like what wdas and just.
• 5:31
  Speaker 3: It was a freak for music. I was the ultimate audience.
• 5:35
  Speaker 3: I listened to everything I was. I used to just
• 5:39
  Speaker 3: hang out at w BAS and in the upteen theater
• 5:42
  Speaker 3: places like that. I mean I just lived there, literally
• 5:46
  Speaker 3: lived there.
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: What was it like getting signed to Elektra?
• 5:51
  Speaker 3: Early on, Well, Jack Holtzman was pretty cool. I have
• 5:56
  Speaker 3: to say I liked him. I was doing, you know,
• 5:59
  Speaker 3: working at Sigma Sound at Philly, and there was sort
• 6:02
  Speaker 3: of an offshoot of side Men and a producer named
• 6:06
  Speaker 3: Tommy Sellers that we after hours. He asked me if
• 6:10
  Speaker 3: I wanted to join it, and we used to, you know,
• 6:13
  Speaker 3: kind of come up with songs and do whatever. And
• 6:16
  Speaker 3: we got a body of work together. And then this
• 6:19
  Speaker 3: fellow that we all worked for named John Madera. He
• 6:22
  Speaker 3: wrote that the hop that's who he is. He wrote,
• 6:25
  Speaker 3: you don't own me, you know. He wrote those kind
• 6:27
  Speaker 3: of songs from a real old school Philly and he
• 6:31
  Speaker 3: started shopping this group of songs around and Electra bit
• 6:36
  Speaker 3: and they called it Gulliver And it wasn't a band
• 6:40
  Speaker 3: at all. It was just a bunch of we were
• 6:41
  Speaker 3: just writing songs. So I kind of went up there.
• 6:45
  Speaker 3: It was my first experience outside of Philly working with
• 6:50
  Speaker 3: or being involved in sort of a New York a
• 6:53
  Speaker 3: a big label. You know. The doors were run Electra
• 6:55
  Speaker 3: and everything, and it was an experience and interesting, but
• 6:59
  Speaker 3: I wasn't really it wasn't real. It wasn't honest. I
• 7:02
  Speaker 3: wasn't trying to shop my work or a band that
• 7:06
  Speaker 3: I was working with or anything like that. So it
• 7:08
  Speaker 3: was kind of kind of a phony situation really.
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: But you did you get to meet Jack Oldsman who
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: ran Electra.
• 7:16
  Speaker 3: He was in those days. Man, those kind of guys
• 7:18
  Speaker 3: were very hands on. Amah was the same. Absolutely. I
• 7:22
  Speaker 3: was in used to hang out, not a lot, but
• 7:25
  Speaker 3: I used to be in Jack Holtsman office and he
• 7:27
  Speaker 3: was really a nice guy. I have to say.
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: But you didn't write any tunes for that for that record?
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: Correct Or Am I wrong?
• 7:35
  Speaker 3: I actually did every Day is a Lovely Day. I
• 7:38
  Speaker 3: think it was called something like that, But I didn't.
• 7:40
  Speaker 3: My heart wasn't in it. I was just doing it,
• 7:42
  Speaker 3: you know, it was It wasn't really. I was doing
• 7:44
  Speaker 3: a lot of things to try and basically get in
• 7:49
  Speaker 3: the quote business and do things for money. You know.
• 7:51
  Speaker 3: I was doing commercials, I was I was doing sidebend stuff.
• 7:55
  Speaker 3: I was working with the game on Hugh team, playing
• 7:59
  Speaker 3: on records with those guys. I was doing anything I
• 8:03
  Speaker 3: could do really to make a few bucks. And that
• 8:07
  Speaker 3: electric thing was part of that whole scene, you know,
• 8:09
  Speaker 3: And I was sort of trying to find myself, to
• 8:12
  Speaker 3: tell you the truth.
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: By the time you get to whole Oats, does that
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: start to feel like this is actually what I want
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: to do and this isn't just a way to get in.
• 8:24
  Speaker 3: It was a way to get in, but it was
• 8:26
  Speaker 3: it was a little of both. I had met John
• 8:29
  Speaker 3: in school in Temple university and I needed a roommate.
• 8:34
  Speaker 3: We were both sort of suburban, not we weren't suburban,
• 8:37
  Speaker 3: that's the wrong word. But we lived out of town,
• 8:40
  Speaker 3: and so I started sharing apartments with him, and we
• 8:45
  Speaker 3: always did things separately. I think that's the whole mark
• 8:48
  Speaker 3: of anything I ever did with John Oates. He had
• 8:51
  Speaker 3: his own world. I have my own world, and proximity
• 8:55
  Speaker 3: pulled us together more than anything, even in those days.
• 9:00
  Speaker 3: So we decided, I remember the words, I said, let's
• 9:05
  Speaker 3: you know what, We'll share the stage. You do your thing,
• 9:08
  Speaker 3: I do my thing. And that was how the whole
• 9:12
  Speaker 3: Oats thing happened, because on the mailbox it's their haul
• 9:15
  Speaker 3: and Oates and we turned it into whole Loats, you know,
• 9:19
  Speaker 3: really really creative. And we used to play around Philly
• 9:25
  Speaker 3: in these little places. There was a place called World
• 9:27
  Speaker 3: Control Headquarters that held about eighty people, and we became
• 9:31
  Speaker 3: fixtures there and we got and we started getting a following,
• 9:35
  Speaker 3: and then we'd play other places that were similar and
• 9:37
  Speaker 3: we started doing that, and that was how the whole
• 9:41
  Speaker 3: relationship with Oates got started, by doing that and people
• 9:46
  Speaker 3: enjoying it what we were doing. And then we started
• 9:49
  Speaker 3: looking around from record deal after that.
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: Did you recognize at the time what work in with
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: like in a Reef?
• 9:57
  Speaker 3: Martin meant absolutely because I was used to working with
• 10:02
  Speaker 3: Tommy Bell and One Huff, so I knew what good
• 10:06
  Speaker 3: shit was. I knew immediately that a Reef was something special.
• 10:10
  Speaker 3: I mean I was I was familiar with his work
• 10:12
  Speaker 3: first of all. I mean, you know, he'd go from
• 10:15
  Speaker 3: Carly Simon to Aretha, to me to to you know,
• 10:18
  Speaker 3: even name it, to all these folks bands, all kinds
• 10:20
  Speaker 3: of things. He taught me fluency in a lot of
• 10:24
  Speaker 3: musical languages. I think I really learned that for the
• 10:28
  Speaker 3: first time from him. Before that, I was more like
• 10:31
  Speaker 3: just straight out of Philadelphia, you know, or at least
• 10:34
  Speaker 3: by version of it.
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: What was his impression of your songs?
• 10:39
  Speaker 3: He said that that I reminded him of an English
• 10:41
  Speaker 3: composer that I can never remember the name. There was
• 10:45
  Speaker 3: an obscureor English composer, and it was something about what
• 10:48
  Speaker 3: that was his frame of reference. But he saw something
• 10:53
  Speaker 3: in me that I think other people hadn't seen yet.
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: Did that encourage you at the time? Scare you?
• 11:01
  Speaker 3: It didn't scare me, but it encouraged me because he
• 11:05
  Speaker 3: again he was He was an encourager, so he tried
• 11:08
  Speaker 3: to bring it out. He tried to he tried to
• 11:10
  Speaker 3: give me confidence. He egged me on, and he was
• 11:13
  Speaker 3: a cheerleader, you know he was. He had a great
• 11:15
  Speaker 3: sense of you, Burt too, But he kind of made
• 11:19
  Speaker 3: me feel legitimate in what I was, in what I
• 11:21
  Speaker 3: was thinking about and doing, and to be unafraid to
• 11:24
  Speaker 3: do things.
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: Do you remember an album like Abandoned Lunchonette, which is
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: the second Holland Oats record, was he worked with you
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: guys on Also the songs themselves sound leaps and bounds
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: more evolved past Whole Oats, but then also just the
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: way that they were put together or the way that
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: they were arranged or orchestrated, And how much of that
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: was just you guys progressing as artists and you progressing
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: as an artist, Darryl, And how much of that was
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: working with a reef and seeing the potential and the
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: songs that you were writing.
• 12:00
  Speaker 3: The Whole Oats album was this grab bag of songs
• 12:04
  Speaker 3: that John Oates and I had written over the years,
• 12:09
  Speaker 3: like we were still in high school and college, you know,
• 12:12
  Speaker 3: we decided we're going to put him down one record.
• 12:14
  Speaker 3: To me, the whole Oats record was. It was a
• 12:16
  Speaker 3: Hall of Oats demo. It wasn't really a record. It
• 12:21
  Speaker 3: was in record form. It was sold as a record,
• 12:24
  Speaker 3: but it wasn't a record. It wasn't a thought a band. Eluchenet,
• 12:27
  Speaker 3: in my opinion, was our first record and at the times,
• 12:31
  Speaker 3: dictated that kind of production. You know. I think the
• 12:35
  Speaker 3: involvement of a guy named Chris Bond, Christopher Bond was
• 12:40
  Speaker 3: it can't be discounted with it because he well he
• 12:43
  Speaker 3: was a budding producer himself, and he was unlike me
• 12:49
  Speaker 3: or reef he was. He was totally a beatlemaniac, you know,
• 12:51
  Speaker 3: and and I think he was influenced by that kind
• 12:54
  Speaker 3: of late late period beatle music. And you can always
• 12:58
  Speaker 3: hear it in the songs where there'll be whatever I'm
• 13:02
  Speaker 3: doing or eas is doing, and then suddenly this kind
• 13:05
  Speaker 3: of beatless thing will be attached to it, you know,
• 13:08
  Speaker 3: which bugs me to type the truth. But then I
• 13:11
  Speaker 3: think if I don't know if it enhanced the album,
• 13:14
  Speaker 3: but I am very proud of that album, and it
• 13:16
  Speaker 3: was I think I think the body of work was
• 13:19
  Speaker 3: really interesting. I think I consider it to be the
• 13:21
  Speaker 3: first Hall of Notes record and maybe one of the
• 13:24
  Speaker 3: only real Hall of Notes records. What makes you say
• 13:26
  Speaker 3: that because we didn't really work together that much after
• 13:30
  Speaker 3: that we did that record, and then I and then
• 13:35
  Speaker 3: I we did that record with.
• 13:38
  Speaker 4: War Babies album Todd Rundgren that was basically being Todd,
• 13:42
  Speaker 4: you know, and then after that it really got very separate,
• 13:46
  Speaker 4: where John wrote some songs and he'd.
• 13:49
  Speaker 3: Sing them, you'd hear them one there, and his voice
• 13:52
  Speaker 3: would be the lead singer, and then I wrote whatever
• 13:55
  Speaker 3: I wrote, and that was that was the majority of it,
• 13:57
  Speaker 3: and that that that that idea that continued all the
• 14:01
  Speaker 3: way through our career.
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: Really, so seventy two seventy three abandoned lunch and that
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: you guys are working actually together. What wasn't about that
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: time that allowed that to unfold that way?
• 14:14
  Speaker 3: I think a lot of it had to do with
• 14:16
  Speaker 3: we were new. It was us against the world because
• 14:19
  Speaker 3: we were still really kids, just out of college, and
• 14:23
  Speaker 3: we were sharing apartments, and we moved and we moved
• 14:26
  Speaker 3: from Philly to New York and we shared an apartment.
• 14:28
  Speaker 3: We were in the same house, so it was kind
• 14:30
  Speaker 3: of hard to not collaborate because you know, I'd be
• 14:33
  Speaker 3: doing something I'd heat hear it, or he'd be doing
• 14:35
  Speaker 3: like She's Gone, for example, which is a real hall
• 14:38
  Speaker 3: hall had Oats song fifty to fifty all the way.
• 14:41
  Speaker 3: He was playing that kind of chorus riff, like a
• 14:44
  Speaker 3: folky riff, and I said, well, that's cool, that's kind
• 14:48
  Speaker 3: of interesting, and I sat down on the piano and
• 14:50
  Speaker 3: I went, you know, you know, you know, I did that,
• 14:57
  Speaker 3: and that turned into She's Gone, and then we we
• 15:01
  Speaker 3: wrote the lyrics together, so that was a real haul
• 15:04
  Speaker 3: and Oats song.
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: Were you guys proud of that song when you at
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: the time, I mean, that is still to this day
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: it's just a jaw dropper.
• 15:10
  Speaker 3: I'm doing it was good, but I okay. And then
• 15:13
  Speaker 3: we took that to a reef and talk about jaw drop.
• 15:16
  Speaker 3: He is what jaw dropped and I was just playing
• 15:20
  Speaker 3: it on a Fender Rhoads and he's the one that
• 15:23
  Speaker 3: came up with that. And you know all about the
• 15:29
  Speaker 3: progression at the end of the song, which is really
• 15:32
  Speaker 3: off the wall really and that but that was his
• 15:34
  Speaker 3: idea completely.
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: That's interesting because that progression sounds almost like I almost
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: feels like a signature at least of yours, Like I
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: feel like I, uh that change, that step up. I'm
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: just shocked to that came from from him.
• 15:48
  Speaker 3: Well, I learned it from him and decided it was
• 15:51
  Speaker 3: a good idea.
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: Because that's one of those moments you're listening to that
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: you're like, oh, there's the hollow notes that I think
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: the majority of people think of when they think hallo notes.
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: You know, just a casual listener.
• 16:04
  Speaker 3: I have a mixed feelings about modulation, but I like it.
• 16:07
  Speaker 3: Sometimes it's really effective, lifing the Shees Gone kind of song.
• 16:11
  Speaker 3: More more recently, I don't use so much modulation anymore.
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: Why is that what causes the mixt No.
• 16:18
  Speaker 3: I just changed my taste changed.
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: It's not an intellectual thing now, you know what it is?
• 16:24
  Speaker 3: Too many, too many shitty songs modulated. A modulation is
• 16:29
  Speaker 3: a trick to take something mediocre and make it sound
• 16:32
  Speaker 3: like it's better than it is in a lot of cases.
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: Was there ever the thought after abandon Lnchinette to do
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: something more on your own?
• 16:41
  Speaker 3: That's what I decided that I wanted. It's a strange
• 16:46
  Speaker 3: thing I started for getting that sort of Okay, I
• 16:49
  Speaker 3: want to go out there and do this on myself.
• 16:53
  Speaker 3: At that period of time, but I was in an
• 16:56
  Speaker 3: environment with people who did not want to hear about it,
• 17:00
  Speaker 3: and they did everything they could over all those years
• 17:04
  Speaker 3: to stop me and stop my impulses to do that,
• 17:09
  Speaker 3: and try and keep me. He'd be aligned if you
• 17:13
  Speaker 3: want the truth to be, and keep me, keep me doing.
• 17:17
  Speaker 3: What they were making money.
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: From was that label pressure.
• 17:22
  Speaker 3: It was label management everything.
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: When did your relationship with Tommy Mottola start?
• 17:27
  Speaker 3: It started back around that whole Oats period. Really, he
• 17:31
  Speaker 3: was working in Chapel Music. He had an office the
• 17:34
  Speaker 3: size of the closet and we went up there with
• 17:38
  Speaker 3: John Madeira and we were doing something I don't even
• 17:42
  Speaker 3: know why. I guess John and was trying to lease
• 17:43
  Speaker 3: his liase, his publishing or something. And I got started
• 17:48
  Speaker 3: talking to Tommy, and Tommy wanted to be a manager,
• 17:52
  Speaker 3: you know, he had big ambitions, and I guess he
• 17:55
  Speaker 3: heard me play something or whatever, and he said, why
• 17:58
  Speaker 3: don't you do You know you don't want to stay
• 18:00
  Speaker 3: in Philadelphia, watch let me manage it. And I went, well,
• 18:05
  Speaker 3: that's interesting, okay, sure, And he kept me laughing for
• 18:08
  Speaker 3: about fifteen years, and then I woke up.
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: When you write a song like Gino on the White album,
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: that's about Tommy Mattola right.
• 18:19
  Speaker 3: I was speaking truth right there.
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: Did he find that funny at the time or he.
• 18:25
  Speaker 3: Acted like he was he thought it was funny. I
• 18:27
  Speaker 3: assume he was smart enough to realize what it was about.
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: How'd you come up with the course on that? That's
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: such a strange.
• 18:38
  Speaker 3: Used to say shit like that, hard works being something
• 18:40
  Speaker 3: you know and lift fast style laughing. That's all he
• 18:43
  Speaker 3: did was laugh all the time. No herd him asking
• 18:46
  Speaker 3: nothing for nothing, and that's straight out of his mouth.
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: We'll be right back with more from Daryl Hall after
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: the break. I want to talk about Todd run Green
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: and David Foster, because you do war Babies with Todd
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: run Gren, you do a couple of records with David Foster.
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: To hear you say that a reef kind of opens
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: you up and allows you to sort of put all
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: these different styles and kinds of music together. Makes sense
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: to me because it's very hard to make sense of
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: your career in the sense of it's so broad. It's
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: I mean, you make a record with the reef, David Foster,
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: Todd Rundgrend, Robert Fripp. I mean, like it's just it's
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: it's insane, it's different, it's incredible.
• 19:30
  Speaker 3: Well, first of all, I I, as you can imagine,
• 19:32
  Speaker 3: I'm an adventurous soul and I and I'm not afraid.
• 19:36
  Speaker 3: I like to try things. I like to expand myself.
• 19:39
  Speaker 3: I like to put myself in in sometimes uncomfortable situations,
• 19:43
  Speaker 3: but usually just in creatively, creatively exciting situations and see
• 19:49
  Speaker 3: what comes out of it. Todd was the first one
• 19:51
  Speaker 3: that I did like that. I mean, I have very
• 19:54
  Speaker 3: mixed feelings about the War Babies album. I mean, I
• 19:56
  Speaker 3: think there was a lot of great ideas on it.
• 19:58
  Speaker 3: To me, it sounds like squirrels on acid. I mean,
• 20:01
  Speaker 3: I you know, it's just sorry. You know, people talk
• 20:06
  Speaker 3: about that album like and I go, okay, well, ld
• 20:08
  Speaker 3: you like. But at least it was an attempt to
• 20:13
  Speaker 3: break out of something and be open to the world,
• 20:17
  Speaker 3: be open to the musical world. And I tried to
• 20:20
  Speaker 3: keep that attitude. And I certainly kept that attitude when
• 20:23
  Speaker 3: I worked with Robert And that was the point, except
• 20:26
  Speaker 3: that I was more controlled within that. And I think
• 20:29
  Speaker 3: what I did with Robert was I was very happy with.
• 20:33
  Speaker 3: And David Foster that was another one that it was
• 20:36
  Speaker 3: kind of suggested. David was twenty two years old when
• 20:39
  Speaker 3: I met him, and he had done some things with Chicago.
• 20:44
  Speaker 3: I think we were the first bands that he were
• 20:47
  Speaker 3: really produced. We butted heads, but at the same time,
• 20:51
  Speaker 3: I think there was a lot of respect going on
• 20:53
  Speaker 3: there and on both sides, and we did some interesting things.
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: When you're in a situation like that and you and
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: Oates maybe aren't as strong as a partnership as you
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: could be, and then and you're sort of button head
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: to the producer, all so that's got to feel kind
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: that's gotta be a bit isolating.
• 21:13
  Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I mean again, it was I was dealing
• 21:17
  Speaker 3: with it like it was my show, and it was
• 21:20
  Speaker 3: the principal characters was being the producers, and I knew
• 21:24
  Speaker 3: what I wanted. I knew what I wanted to do.
• 21:26
  Speaker 3: And a guy like David, he's a he's a He
• 21:31
  Speaker 3: comes from the autocratic school where he's a great musician
• 21:35
  Speaker 3: and he wants people to do it his way, and
• 21:37
  Speaker 3: I don't necessarily agree with that.
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: All the time you mentioned you were really happy with
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: the Robert Fripp record, it blew my mind. I looked
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: back at the dates, and you guys recorded that the
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: month after he wraps Heroes with David Bowie and then
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: he's in the studio with you the next month and
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: you guys are making what's your first solo record?
• 22:00
  Speaker 3: I met Robert and Uh. I was actually playing a
• 22:03
  Speaker 3: gig in Toronto, and Robert happened to be there and
• 22:07
  Speaker 3: he came backstage and and we instantly clicked. And he
• 22:11
  Speaker 3: was right at the time going into he was very
• 22:15
  Speaker 3: involved with in the gurdgif philosophy thing, you know, and
• 22:19
  Speaker 3: and he was going away to retreat and he said,
• 22:24
  Speaker 3: I'm going to know, this is Robert's way. I'm going
• 22:26
  Speaker 3: to away to retreat for about six months, and then
• 22:30
  Speaker 3: when we come back, why don't you and I get
• 22:33
  Speaker 3: together and make some music together. And I said, sure, okay,
• 22:37
  Speaker 3: this sounds good. And he decided he was going to
• 22:39
  Speaker 3: move to New York City after the Gurdgiff thing and
• 22:42
  Speaker 3: sort of immerse himself in New York. And that's what
• 22:47
  Speaker 3: Heroes happened and all that, and he and I started
• 22:51
  Speaker 3: paling around together really and we recorded the Sacred Songs album.
• 22:56
  Speaker 3: I had a few songs and some of the songs
• 22:58
  Speaker 3: we recorded on the spot and just made up with
• 23:00
  Speaker 3: the spot and we did it in Town in New York.
• 23:04
  Speaker 3: And then he said, okay, well I want to make
• 23:07
  Speaker 3: a record. Let's do the same thing for my record.
• 23:10
  Speaker 3: So we made a record that became Exposure to Robert
• 23:15
  Speaker 3: record called Exposure, and that was my first setback because
• 23:18
  Speaker 3: we recorded and wrote the songs together, and my label
• 23:24
  Speaker 3: said that they wouldn't allow me to use my vocals
• 23:28
  Speaker 3: on the record. I finally got them to let me
• 23:31
  Speaker 3: use I think two or three, and he had the
• 23:36
  Speaker 3: task of trying to find someone or people and who
• 23:41
  Speaker 3: could copy or have some kind of reasonable try to
• 23:45
  Speaker 3: copy the vocals that I had come up with on
• 23:48
  Speaker 3: the record, which luckily he found some people who were
• 23:51
  Speaker 3: pretty good to do it. But Maya, was it frustrating.
• 23:55
  Speaker 3: I realized that I was really in trouble, that I
• 23:59
  Speaker 3: was really being locked into something that I didn't see
• 24:02
  Speaker 3: having an happy ending.
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: It's wild that you say that, because it from the outside,
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: it doesn't fucking.
• 24:10
  Speaker 3: Keep on trucking. I had no choice. And here's the thing.
• 24:14
  Speaker 3: Not only did I keep on trucking because Robert was saying, Okay,
• 24:17
  Speaker 3: let's put a band together and start doing this for real.
• 24:20
  Speaker 3: And then suddenly I had a commitment to our SIA,
• 24:23
  Speaker 3: to Gwin and that's when Voices album happened, and the
• 24:27
  Speaker 3: whole fucking world blew up for for Hall of Oates,
• 24:30
  Speaker 3: and then I was really stuck in the in the
• 24:33
  Speaker 3: groove with the with the situation I was in.
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: Did you hear any of that stuff he had been
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: doing with Bowie that Frip had been doing with Bowie
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: around that time?
• 24:42
  Speaker 3: Yeah? Sure, I was pretty familiar with with that whole scene.
• 24:46
  Speaker 3: You know, I knew Brian Eno and and uh and Robert,
• 24:50
  Speaker 3: and I got to know Peter Gabriel and I worked
• 24:53
  Speaker 3: with lou Reid and we actually hauled us. Believe it
• 24:56
  Speaker 3: or not, we opened for a tour, a lou Reed
• 24:58
  Speaker 3: tour you did, so it's hard to believe what we did. Yeah,
• 25:03
  Speaker 3: and uh, and I knew David and uh, so, I
• 25:06
  Speaker 3: mean yeah, I'm was familiar with all this stuff that
• 25:08
  Speaker 3: was going on, right.
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: Because you guys opened for David Bowie too around seventy
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: two ish, really early.
• 25:15
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: How was lou Reid on the tour?
• 25:20
  Speaker 3: He was It was the Sally Can't Dance No More tour,
• 25:24
  Speaker 3: so I can't dance no more? Uh? And uh, he
• 25:29
  Speaker 3: was strange, man. I mean it's to say that it's
• 25:33
  Speaker 3: just to be obvious. I mean, Lou was lou Is
• 25:35
  Speaker 3: a very unusual man, and I kind of liked him.
• 25:40
  Speaker 3: I liked I liked his attitude. I liked he was
• 25:43
  Speaker 3: he just didn't give a fuck. You know, he was
• 25:46
  Speaker 3: a curmudgeon. But yet he wasn't you know? There was
• 25:51
  Speaker 3: a lot going on with Lou Reid that I think
• 25:52
  Speaker 3: more than people even realize. And I wound up living
• 25:57
  Speaker 3: in New York City. I live next door to him,
• 25:59
  Speaker 3: So I mean, not only was I did go on
• 26:02
  Speaker 3: tour with him, but I used to see him walk
• 26:04
  Speaker 3: his dog and things like that. And I wouldn't say
• 26:08
  Speaker 3: he was a friendly man, but you know.
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: Would would you talk though? Would you you know, keep
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: a cordial.
• 26:15
  Speaker 3: As I'd say something to me, go away? How you doing?
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: What do you make of a songwriting?
• 26:21
  Speaker 3: I was. I was just with Dave Stewart, and Dave
• 26:23
  Speaker 3: Stewart has a book of Lou Reed's lyrics, and I
• 26:26
  Speaker 3: was in between doing stuff that we were doing. This
• 26:30
  Speaker 3: just happened last week, uh, And I started reading his
• 26:33
  Speaker 3: lyrics and the early stuff, the development stuff. I mean,
• 26:37
  Speaker 3: it's good, it's it's just it's it's completely different than
• 26:41
  Speaker 3: anybody else. I mean, you take a song like I
• 26:45
  Speaker 3: don't Know Sister Ray or something like that. I mean,
• 26:48
  Speaker 3: the words are just amazing. It's slight, it's a slice
• 26:51
  Speaker 3: of light, but ugly life and a fucked up life.
• 26:54
  Speaker 3: But but it's you know, he he managed to create
• 26:57
  Speaker 3: a mood that was based on something that really was
• 27:01
  Speaker 3: and uh, I respect him.
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: I thought about him a bit when I was listening
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: back through your records because with Lou it always felt
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: like there was he knew how to write a pop
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: song and just subverted the lout of it, you know,
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: and it felt like you could do either thing, Like
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: it felt like you could write the perfect pop song,
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: you could write the most subversive weird thing. With Robert Free,
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: I mean it's like and everything in between, you know.
• 27:31
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean that's that describes by the way my
• 27:34
  Speaker 3: brain works. I can I can do go both ways,
• 27:37
  Speaker 3: you know, or a lot of ways. I always say,
• 27:40
  Speaker 3: I speak a lot of musical languages.
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, do you remember Do you remember any of water Wheel?
• 27:48
  Speaker 3: I remember, but I would never be able to sing
• 27:50
  Speaker 3: it because my voice saying near that high anymore? Man,
• 27:54
  Speaker 3: I hear you call me. I wrote that I was
• 28:00
  Speaker 3: just out of high school when I wrote that, you know,
• 28:02
  Speaker 3: the Philly scene it was. It was a really strange thing.
• 28:07
  Speaker 3: There was a big folk scene going on too, and
• 28:11
  Speaker 3: I heard I heard something that made me want to
• 28:13
  Speaker 3: write that. I don't remember what it was, and it
• 28:17
  Speaker 3: was it was basically written in that tradition, and it
• 28:21
  Speaker 3: was certainly different than anything I was doing. When I say,
• 28:24
  Speaker 3: working with game.
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: On, it's interesting how nostalgic you can be just out
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: of high school.
• 28:30
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I know, I think all these songs I wrote,
• 28:33
  Speaker 3: I seem to be obsessed with writing songs about nostalgia
• 28:38
  Speaker 3: and being older and all that when I was just
• 28:41
  Speaker 3: a kid. I don't know why I thought that way,
• 28:44
  Speaker 3: don't ask me.
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but to be able to write a song like
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: water Wheel wasn't a hit but sounds in so many
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: ways like a perfect pop song from that era of
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: when songs sounded like that. Then to be able to
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: go and do something like you know, I mean just
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: United States, you know, on voices, and then to do
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: I mean one of my favorites like I'm in a
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: Philly mood, you know, in like ninety three ninety four.
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: I mean that you have that kind of a range
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: and can write in all of these various styles, these
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: things that are just like deep and incredible is something else?
• 29:25
  Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I mean I won't ask me why I
• 29:27
  Speaker 3: can do that, but I seem to have the ability
• 29:29
  Speaker 3: to do it. My ears are open and I have
• 29:33
  Speaker 3: that facility. I guess I would never be able to
• 29:36
  Speaker 3: explain that.
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: And by the way, you just want to say you
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: put your voice down. But I watched the Frip live
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: at Daryll's house, you and Robert Fripp and your version
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: of NYC and why that you did probably what just
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: two years ago sounds better than the record still do that.
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: We should talk about Dave Stewart because you did a
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: record with him in the eighties. I think your third
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: or second solo record. You guys just did a record
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: together last year. D How did you guys come together?
• 30:12
  Speaker 3: Like many things, I met him, I just met him.
• 30:16
  Speaker 3: Somebody introduced me to him and they said, actually, somebody
• 30:19
  Speaker 3: said you guys should get together. I think you enjoy
• 30:21
  Speaker 3: each other's company. And he was I've lived in London
• 30:27
  Speaker 3: for a lot of time. I don't live there right now,
• 30:29
  Speaker 3: but I for years and years I lived in London.
• 30:31
  Speaker 3: So I went up to his house at the time
• 30:32
  Speaker 3: he was living in made of Bale and I went
• 30:36
  Speaker 3: in and we immediately started. I mean I literally went
• 30:39
  Speaker 3: into his house. He says, come downstairs, and we started
• 30:42
  Speaker 3: writing a song. That was the way I met Dave Stewart.
• 30:46
  Speaker 3: We've been friends ever since. You know, we just get along.
• 30:49
  Speaker 3: I don't know what it is. And he makes me
• 30:51
  Speaker 3: feel creatively, he's a very stimulating person. He makes me
• 30:56
  Speaker 3: feel alive. He's a gigantic bundle of energy, and he's
• 31:01
  Speaker 3: extremely smart and extremely full of ideas, like I can't
• 31:07
  Speaker 3: even tell you haven't. He never stops with him and.
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 31:12
  Speaker 3: He's just fun to be with. And so over the
• 31:15
  Speaker 3: years we've we made that record, we made the Three
• 31:17
  Speaker 3: Hearts album, and we have a great time doing it.
• 31:22
  Speaker 3: And then over the years we've we've written a few
• 31:25
  Speaker 3: things and done things together, and he's played on some
• 31:27
  Speaker 3: of the records and done things with him. And more recently,
• 31:33
  Speaker 3: I told him about the place I live in the
• 31:35
  Speaker 3: Bahamas and he wound up buying a house down there,
• 31:39
  Speaker 3: so we're neighbors now. On top of it all, you know,
• 31:42
  Speaker 3: it's family. It's really become family with them.
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: You might have figured out the life if you're moving
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: between New York, London and the bass.
• 31:51
  Speaker 3: That's a good triangle.
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: This might be the perfect triangle. His stuff with the
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: rhythmics is I mean his stuff in general, but I
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: mean that rhythmic stuff. To this day, I've been revisiting
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: it because I've been playing it for my kids, and
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: that stuff's mind blowing. Still.
• 32:09
  Speaker 3: He wrote those songs you don't and that's his productions.
• 32:13
  Speaker 3: And he's a great singer, by the way, which doesn't hurt,
• 32:15
  Speaker 3: you know. And she sang the ship out of that stuff.
• 32:18
  Speaker 3: And yeah, I mean he he has a great body
• 32:22
  Speaker 3: of work.
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: The sounds you guys got on the new record, like
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: the I mean the whole World's Better. Yeah, beautiful sound.
• 32:28
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that song I love. I love playing that recently
• 32:33
  Speaker 3: in my latest tours, I'm starting the show with that
• 32:36
  Speaker 3: because there's just something about it. And you know, when
• 32:38
  Speaker 3: you just bang that thing out, you know that you
• 32:50
  Speaker 3: know it just wow, it just makes you stand up.
• 32:56
  Speaker 3: That song. I wrote that song about one subject, and
• 32:59
  Speaker 3: I had most of that song and then it turned
• 33:02
  Speaker 3: into something else and it became anthemic. And that was
• 33:06
  Speaker 3: Dave's idea to put the you know you know in
• 33:13
  Speaker 3: the end, and we just had people come in, friends
• 33:15
  Speaker 3: from the from the island, they come in and sang.
• 33:18
  Speaker 3: So it became a real communal, athemic kind of song.
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: What was what was the song originally about?
• 33:24
  Speaker 3: It was about, like many of my songs, I had
• 33:27
  Speaker 3: a very tempestuous relationship with with the my late wife
• 33:31
  Speaker 3: and I don't know she was so moody with what
• 33:34
  Speaker 3: I would hear her saying in the kitchen everything got better.
• 33:40
  Speaker 3: That's where it started.
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: Is there an early version of that that you can
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: share a bit of.
• 33:46
  Speaker 3: No, not really, because I had the chorus and that's
• 33:49
  Speaker 3: when that was. That was the original. And then I
• 33:52
  Speaker 3: had I had the chords of the song, but I
• 33:55
  Speaker 3: didn't have the words. And that's when it turned into
• 33:59
  Speaker 3: something else, you know, when when I was with Dave
• 34:02
  Speaker 3: and I had a melody without any words to go
• 34:06
  Speaker 3: with it, and and then we you know, I, with
• 34:09
  Speaker 3: his major help, I wrote the lyrics.
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: Would would you mind giving us a little of the courses?
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: Because you gave us a bit and it's it's it's
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: too good to the choruses.
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: Or when notts again? When youse snots again?
• 34:35
  Speaker 3: Here it is.
• 34:37
  Speaker 5: It's a moving song. It's a moving song, you know,
• 34:40
  Speaker 5: it comes from a real emotion. Everything all right, comes
• 34:43
  Speaker 5: from something real. And people ask me, what you know,
• 34:47
  Speaker 5: your new new musician in the world, what do you do?
• 34:49
  Speaker 5: I said, you got to believe it, you gotta you
• 34:51
  Speaker 5: gotta live it. You got It's got to be something
• 34:53
  Speaker 5: that that almost makes you makes you want to cry inside,
• 34:58
  Speaker 5: or does make you cry inside?
• 35:00
  Speaker 3: Uh? Just me playing that, I just got a feeling
• 35:02
  Speaker 3: in my throat because it brought back the memories of
• 35:06
  Speaker 3: when I wrote it. Uh, yeah like that?
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you know you mentioned your late wife. Sarah Allen
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: Jena Allen were incredible inspirations and collaborators crowded out along
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: your career.
• 35:24
  Speaker 3: Both Sarah and Jana. They played such a large part
• 35:27
  Speaker 3: in the song from the eighties. Jana originated private Eyes,
• 35:31
  Speaker 3: I mean, and she originated kiss on My List, I mean,
• 35:34
  Speaker 3: things like that. I mean, they were complete collaborations. And Sarah,
• 35:39
  Speaker 3: it was it is a really good lyricist, really good lyricist,
• 35:44
  Speaker 3: and she contributed a lot.
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: Did they figure how to channel that from being around you?
• 35:50
  Speaker 3: Or I think so? I don't know, if I just
• 35:54
  Speaker 3: gave it off. I mean, they were both musical people,
• 35:57
  Speaker 3: and especially Jana, I mean, Janna is a guitar player
• 36:00
  Speaker 3: and a singer and all that. Sandy is a singer,
• 36:03
  Speaker 3: but you know, more just a music lover. And yeah,
• 36:07
  Speaker 3: I think proximity had to do with it. And I
• 36:09
  Speaker 3: don't know, something rubbed off and they just came up
• 36:12
  Speaker 3: with really good ideas and they would throw them out
• 36:15
  Speaker 3: and just to compliment things really add to the quality
• 36:20
  Speaker 3: of whatever it is that I was coming up with.
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: How would Jana bring like a private eyes to you?
• 36:24
  Speaker 3: She actually made a demo of that. The chorus was there,
• 36:29
  Speaker 3: but then I kind of fleshed out the verses. I changed.
• 36:32
  Speaker 3: You know, that's a pretty complicated chord progression. All the
• 36:35
  Speaker 3: chords and so and that that had to do with
• 36:38
  Speaker 3: me and I was doing that, but she came up
• 36:41
  Speaker 3: with private eyes. Watch didn't you they see your every move?
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: She came up with that, sir, can you play through
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: a bit of those that chord progression? You were?
• 36:49
  Speaker 3: Okay, let's see here. I can't believe it. I have
• 36:52
  Speaker 3: to think about it, watching watching you, watch, watching you,
• 37:12
  Speaker 3: watch you.
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: Man. So she had those chords or.
• 37:18
  Speaker 3: She came up with the chords, Well, okay, uh watch
• 37:22
  Speaker 3: and watch that's me you can tell right, read that.
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: She but her was a ship.
• 37:33
  Speaker 3: She she came up with that.
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: Wow, what a gift.
• 37:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah, well she had one and talk about you know,
• 37:40
  Speaker 3: I don't know man's tragedy sometimes. I mean she died
• 37:43
  Speaker 3: really young. She died, she got the leukemia and died.
• 37:46
  Speaker 3: She was thirty nine years old. And I'm still misser.
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: Did that impact you and Sarah are working together? Oh?
• 37:55
  Speaker 3: Sarah was. But did it impact it? I can't say
• 37:59
  Speaker 3: it didn't. It kind of put disruption in our family. Yeah,
• 38:04
  Speaker 3: that kind of personal stuff. Would you put that into music?
• 38:10
  Speaker 3: I do all the time. I'm not afraid to put
• 38:13
  Speaker 3: it all out there. The most obvious one is the
• 38:16
  Speaker 3: one that d album and the new album one I'd
• 38:19
  Speaker 3: rather be a fool. I mean, soar the end of
• 38:21
  Speaker 3: that song. I'm just saying it.
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: When you put something like that down, does it ever
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: give you pause.
• 38:28
  Speaker 3: I'm not afraid. I put my emotions right out there.
• 38:33
  Speaker 3: Rather be a fool. It is a very direct version
• 38:35
  Speaker 3: of that. You can't look at my music without here
• 38:38
  Speaker 3: and the reality of it. It's just it's all in there.
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: Has it ever caused maybe not problems that has ever.
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: Has it ever caused friction with people that you're close to.
• 38:50
  Speaker 3: I think I've made some people sad. I'm saying that
• 38:53
  Speaker 3: with a smirk of my face, which is terrible, So
• 38:55
  Speaker 3: I don't feel smirky about it. But I don't know.
• 38:59
  Speaker 3: I mean, the truth hurts sometimes, and that doesn't mean
• 39:05
  Speaker 3: you can't speak the truth.
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: I had a conversation with Michael McDonald about a year ago,
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: maybe a year and a half ago, and he told
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: a story about I think it was I can't remember
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: which Doobe's record it was now, but one of the
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: records wasn't doing so well and one of the black
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: an hours at Warner said like, this should go on,
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: this should go on black radio, you know, living on
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: the fault line, that's what it was, and setting a
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: black radio. Black radio loved it and kind of saved
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: that version of the band. But it occurred to me, like,
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: you know, like the Doobiest, there was a number of
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: groups like that that they kind of got eventually pigeonholed
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: as yacht rock, but really what it was was just
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: there were just R and B guys. They're just making
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: R and B records, and they were white, and.
• 39:55
  Speaker 3: So this is something I don't understand. First of all,
• 39:59
  Speaker 3: yacht rock was a fucking joke by two jerk offs
• 40:02
  Speaker 3: in California, and suddenly it became a genre. And I
• 40:07
  Speaker 3: don't even understand it, never understood it. And I totally man,
• 40:11
  Speaker 3: I'm glad you say that it's just R and B.
• 40:14
  Speaker 3: It's just another with some maybe some jazz in there.
• 40:18
  Speaker 3: It's mellow R and B. It's it's it's it's it's
• 40:21
  Speaker 3: smooth R and B. Yeah, I don't see what the
• 40:25
  Speaker 3: yacht part is.
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but it seemed like, you know, it seemed like
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: like with the Doobies, for instance, like they like, because
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: they were white guys, they didn't know where to or
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: not all of them, but the majority of Michael McDonald's white,
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: and it's like they didn't know where to put it.
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: It's like, well, I can't go on black rad because
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: these guys aren't black, but you know, the white audience
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: they want to hear, you know, whatever they want. But
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: it doesn't feel like you guys necessarily ever had that
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: issue from my vantage point. I don't know if you
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: feel that way.
• 40:52
  Speaker 3: I was more of a pioneer. I mean my music.
• 40:55
  Speaker 3: When I was I had a group called the Tumtones,
• 40:57
  Speaker 3: and and I had a you know, pretty like a
• 41:00
  Speaker 3: top twenty hit in Philadelphia, you know one W Das
• 41:04
  Speaker 3: and Sarah's Smile broke on on on R and B
• 41:08
  Speaker 3: on on Black Race. It it had to make its
• 41:11
  Speaker 3: way to pop radio. That's how Hollanolds started. That was
• 41:15
  Speaker 3: that's our origins. And uh, people misjudged us and and
• 41:19
  Speaker 3: and and uh because they couldn't label us, and they
• 41:23
  Speaker 3: always they came up with all this kind of crap
• 41:25
  Speaker 3: soft rock and yacht rock and all this other nonsense
• 41:29
  Speaker 3: and none of the none of it really describes anything
• 41:32
  Speaker 3: that I do, really, yeah, or doesn't describe it any
• 41:35
  Speaker 3: anybody does.
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: I didn't realize there were a Smile broke on on
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: black radio first.
• 41:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah, out of out of Ohio RB station, Ohio, not Dayton,
• 41:44
  Speaker 3: but some place like that. Uh. And and then it
• 41:47
  Speaker 3: spread through the ARMBA charts. And it wasn't until after
• 41:51
  Speaker 3: it was a it was a gigantic record in the
• 41:53
  Speaker 3: arm Bach charts that it went to. Uh, pop radio
• 41:57
  Speaker 3: makes sense.
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: I mean that is that is a hell of a
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: soulful record. And listening to a recently, I've always played guitar,
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: so I was always taken by the guitar part, and
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: I love vocals, so I always thinking about the vocal,
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: hadn't paid proper attention to the bass until recently. But
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: I think it was Leland scar on there.
• 42:15
  Speaker 3: I think it was Uh. The guy that played that
• 42:19
  Speaker 3: amazing guitar solo was Christopher Bond And that is one
• 42:22
  Speaker 3: of the most beautiful, amazing introduction guitar solos ever written.
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: It really is. I mean, the notes played, in the
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: way it's played, that the way he approaches it.
• 42:32
  Speaker 3: What an amazing guy. He was a very unusual guy.
• 42:36
  Speaker 3: He's unfortunately that anymore.
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: Your vocal runs on there too, are are? I mean
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: just your your choices vocally are?
• 42:43
  Speaker 3: I mean I was just being again just I don't
• 42:46
  Speaker 3: know that that that that was a real That was reality, man.
• 42:50
  Speaker 3: I wrote that song like a postcard to Sandy and
• 42:52
  Speaker 3: Sarah Allen and oh there it is.
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: We'll be back with the rest of my conversation with
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: Daryl Hall. How would you approach in the studio like
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: a song like a lone just thinking of that album
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: now like alone too long?
• 43:11
  Speaker 3: That was it?
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: That's a John song, right, That's a John song. How
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: much would you involve yourself with John songs?
• 43:17
  Speaker 3: I guess you know I would do all all the
• 43:19
  Speaker 3: backgrounds and everything. I would fletch out and John would
• 43:23
  Speaker 3: have the song. And this goes with any of his songs,
• 43:27
  Speaker 3: so there were on a whole of its record like
• 43:29
  Speaker 3: had I Known You Better Than or something like that,
• 43:31
  Speaker 3: and and alone too Long? And I would come up
• 43:35
  Speaker 3: with a vocal arrangement that would accompany his song and
• 43:39
  Speaker 3: do all the parts sing. If it was a three
• 43:42
  Speaker 3: part harmony, I'd sing three parts. And I mean, when
• 43:46
  Speaker 3: you listen to all of Oats records, that's all me
• 43:49
  Speaker 3: singing like kiss on my lists, that's all me sing
• 43:52
  Speaker 3: in the backgrounds. Occasionally John would sing a part on
• 43:56
  Speaker 3: a record, and sometimes he would I would sing the
• 43:58
  Speaker 3: parts and then tell him to sing over one of
• 44:01
  Speaker 3: the parts. That's how we did it, you know I
• 44:04
  Speaker 3: did it. Excuse me?
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: Was there anything in your view special about your blends?
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: Just the way your voices would blend well, the.
• 44:11
  Speaker 3: Reason to blend, because it was all me. If I
• 44:15
  Speaker 3: can blend with myself, then.
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: When might you, though, decide? John, sing this? I got
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: something for you? Sing this? Like? When would that occur
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: to you?
• 44:25
  Speaker 3: Because I wouldn't add is tambre to the to the background.
• 44:28
  Speaker 3: It was. It was one of those things. I mean,
• 44:29
  Speaker 3: John has a very distinct voice, and and it's not
• 44:32
  Speaker 3: a bad voice either. Hey I'm not putting that down.
• 44:36
  Speaker 3: But and and on stage you could tell we were
• 44:40
  Speaker 3: working together. I mean it was you wouldn't know in
• 44:42
  Speaker 3: a million years, but he was more of a take
• 44:47
  Speaker 3: dictation kind of a singer, you know, like sing this.
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: I mentioned I'm in a Philly Mood. That's one of
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: those songs that makes me wish I was actually from Philly,
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: which I could say I'm in a Philly Mood that
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: whole record, But I mean that that song is incredible. Borderline,
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: you have a Mariah sing backgrounds on a song and
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: co wrote a song, yeah, she wrote what was that?
• 45:12
  Speaker 3: One?
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: Helped me find a Way and the.
• 45:15
  Speaker 3: Way to your Heart? Yeah, yeah, that was a sorry
• 45:17
  Speaker 3: wrote with Mariah. Yet Philly Mood is one of my
• 45:20
  Speaker 3: favorite songs I ever wrote. I play that every show.
• 45:24
  Speaker 3: I love singing it. I like playing it. It really
• 45:27
  Speaker 3: describes the way I feel and the way I felt
• 45:31
  Speaker 3: and again the scenes that I was creating. And boy
• 45:34
  Speaker 3: is that real. That's a very emotional song to me,
• 45:37
  Speaker 3: kind of like Tony Bennett's I Left my Heart in
• 45:39
  Speaker 3: San Francisco. It's the mood, man, It's that's we mood.
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: You worked with the couple of folks from the Family
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: stand which I feel like that group is sort of
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: maybe the lost of time of it. But they were really,
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: really cool.
• 45:55
  Speaker 3: They were really cool. I don't know why that didn't
• 45:57
  Speaker 3: really stick around, you know, they and and Peter and
• 46:01
  Speaker 3: Jeff that's Peter Lord and Jeff Smith. That was a
• 46:03
  Speaker 3: really interesting combo that we had going That was a
• 46:05
  Speaker 3: talk about Philly mood. You know. Uh, Peter was really good.
• 46:09
  Speaker 3: He egged me on, you know, he really He brought
• 46:13
  Speaker 3: a certain thing out of me that I don't think
• 46:14
  Speaker 3: anybody anybody else has, you know. And I think that
• 46:17
  Speaker 3: that sol a Loan record sort of reflects that, and
• 46:21
  Speaker 3: he reflects the move the thing that he brought out
• 46:24
  Speaker 3: in me.
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: Do you think you can put into words what he
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: brought out of you?
• 46:27
  Speaker 3: No, I can't. It's it's just something that's certain kind
• 46:31
  Speaker 3: of jazz soul thing that I occasionally do. But brought
• 46:36
  Speaker 3: that to the front.
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: When you did. It helped me find a way to
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: heart with Mariah. I think emotions maybe had been a
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: hit at that point, But were you very familiar with her.
• 46:45
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah, it was Tommy Motola's girlfriend, right, I mean,
• 46:49
  Speaker 3: my god. And she actually came up with with she
• 46:53
  Speaker 3: came up with the course of that and she and
• 46:55
  Speaker 3: she played it for me and then went from there.
• 46:58
  Speaker 1: So that song started with her.
• 47:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah, she she sent me that, she sent me a
• 47:03
  Speaker 3: tape to help me find a way to your heart,
• 47:07
  Speaker 3: and then I I kind of enhanced it.
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: I always feel like people sleep on Mariah as a songwriter,
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: you know, as someone who can write a song.
• 47:16
  Speaker 3: I think Mariah is a very talented person, as we
• 47:20
  Speaker 3: all know. And uh, but I think that they she
• 47:24
  Speaker 3: got into that old diva thing and and you know,
• 47:27
  Speaker 3: with the big voice and and all over the place voice,
• 47:31
  Speaker 3: and but that kind of takes away from the source
• 47:35
  Speaker 3: of it, you know, the fact that she can put
• 47:37
  Speaker 3: together a good song. She's she's good. Man. Mariah's happening.
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, are you gonna do any more Live from Darryl's House?
• 47:46
  Speaker 3: That going one on Tuesday? And I'm not gonna tell
• 47:50
  Speaker 3: you with who because I never do. But yeah, that's
• 47:53
  Speaker 3: that's an ongoing project. I've been doing it for a
• 47:56
  Speaker 3: long time, and uh, I've decided instead of doing a
• 48:00
  Speaker 3: whole season So I'm just gonna do occasional ones, maybe
• 48:04
  Speaker 3: in groups of one and two, three or something like that,
• 48:07
  Speaker 3: and just keep adding to my YouTube.
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: Know what does that add to your life, your creative
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: life doing that show?
• 48:13
  Speaker 3: I love it. I loved life from Darryl's House. I
• 48:15
  Speaker 3: love doing it. It's the most stimulating experience that you
• 48:20
  Speaker 3: can imagine, because we don't do any rehearsing, only the
• 48:24
  Speaker 3: most rudimentary of do. We know what's happening, and so
• 48:28
  Speaker 3: everybody is completely on their toes doing it for the
• 48:31
  Speaker 3: first time. There's an artist in there that may or
• 48:35
  Speaker 3: may not be comfortable, and I have to make them comfortable.
• 48:40
  Speaker 3: Sometimes they're you know, sometimes there's especially the heritage artists,
• 48:44
  Speaker 3: they're stuck in their ways and I have to unstick them.
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 48:47
  Speaker 3: There's there's so many things going on, and then we
• 48:49
  Speaker 3: have those amazing you know, conversations around dinner and the
• 48:53
  Speaker 3: whole thing. It's an amazing experience. Usually takes me two
• 48:57
  Speaker 3: days to recover from one.
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: Have you ever come out of one feeling like, oh,
• 49:02
  Speaker 1: maybe I should maybe we could do a whole record together,
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: you know, Well, yeah, I.
• 49:07
  Speaker 3: Mean, I I've got a lot of people. I mean
• 49:10
  Speaker 3: what I've been doing instead of making records together, like okay,
• 49:13
  Speaker 3: I'm going out on the road Glenn Tilbrook, uh, and
• 49:16
  Speaker 3: that I'm going to be working with him all year,
• 49:18
  Speaker 3: I think, off and on, and he's a he's an
• 49:22
  Speaker 3: LFDH left Darrel's House to alumni at this point, you know.
• 49:26
  Speaker 3: So I think that I came up with this idea
• 49:29
  Speaker 3: based on the how we work together that way, and
• 49:32
  Speaker 3: there's anomber. You know, there's a lot of artists like that.
• 49:34
  Speaker 3: Howard Jones is another one that I've done. Todd obviously,
• 49:38
  Speaker 3: I mean, that's that's what I do on stage Now,
• 49:40
  Speaker 3: I do a version of life from Daryl's House.
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: And that's maybe more rewarded because I just think, I
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: mean that that that you can get and most especially
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: heritage artists, that you can get them to come and
• 49:51
  Speaker 1: play in that way that you do and get them comfortable,
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: but also sort of be on the edge a bit
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: of we don't exactly know what we're doing, but we
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: know exactly you know what we're doing. Like that's like,
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: that's that's it. I mean, you're basically producing these people
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: and that's not something that I think they're always accustomed to,
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: you know.
• 50:07
  Speaker 3: I am. I am doing exactly that on the spot,
• 50:10
  Speaker 3: and you're right, people aren't accustomed to it. Oddly enough,
• 50:14
  Speaker 3: the brand new artists are the easiest ones because they
• 50:17
  Speaker 3: don't know what's going on. They're just like puppy dogs.
• 50:20
  Speaker 3: They're like, let's go, let's do it. You know. You
• 50:23
  Speaker 3: take a guy who's been around for as long as me,
• 50:25
  Speaker 3: and he's like, am I doing the right thing? Here?
• 50:27
  Speaker 3: My fucking up? You know, this isn't the way I
• 50:30
  Speaker 3: always sing this song.
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's interesting even seeing The Fruit. I just
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: watched it. I didn't really know that Robert Frupp had
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: been on that. I didn't know why how I missed
• 50:38
  Speaker 1: that one. But I was watching that last week, and
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: even he seemed a little you know, me as adventurous
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: as they come, but even he seemed a little a
• 50:45
  Speaker 1: little nervous. You know.
• 50:47
  Speaker 3: Well, Robert is a very controlled person, but with an
• 50:51
  Speaker 3: amazing sense of humor. I got to add, But but
• 50:54
  Speaker 3: I know he was he was good, he was fine.
• 50:56
  Speaker 3: I think he just was really he wanted to He'd
• 50:59
  Speaker 3: been wanting to do this for a long time, is
• 51:01
  Speaker 3: what it was. Is We've been trying to get together
• 51:03
  Speaker 3: for years and it finally happened and maybe that that showed, you.
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: Know, and you guys do I think it's NYC And
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: why that has that like just insane opening riff?
• 51:14
  Speaker 3: You know it? How did he come up with that?
• 51:20
  Speaker 3: I don't know.
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: He's insane and he's like, you know, I haven't done
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: this in forty something year, you know, just like oh this,
• 51:25
  Speaker 1: that's the level of his genius is that he's just
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: these things are just coming out of them.
• 51:28
  Speaker 3: You know, He's unbelievable, is what he is.
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: If I wrote that riff, I would never stop playing it.
• 51:36
  Speaker 3: He just over that shit. That's just another riff for
• 51:40
  Speaker 3: you know.
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: Were you into King Crimson in the day, Oh yeah.
• 51:44
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I was very much into that to his version
• 51:47
  Speaker 3: of progressive rock. Well, I was into him. This is
• 51:50
  Speaker 3: what I was into. I mean, you know, we didn't
• 51:53
  Speaker 3: do red From on the show, and I'm so proud
• 51:57
  Speaker 3: of my band. They just played that now. Roberts said,
• 52:01
  Speaker 3: I have never been in any organization that ever played
• 52:05
  Speaker 3: that song that it didn't take at least three days
• 52:07
  Speaker 3: to learn it, and these guys play it. They just
• 52:10
  Speaker 3: listened to it at home by themselves. We got together
• 52:14
  Speaker 3: and we played the motherbucker, you know. I mean, it's
• 52:16
  Speaker 3: one band I got, but that comes, you know, my
• 52:20
  Speaker 3: love for King King Crimson comes from back then. The
• 52:22
  Speaker 3: Lark's tunging aspect and all that stuff. I mean, I
• 52:25
  Speaker 3: heard the I heard the power and the soul in it,
• 52:27
  Speaker 3: and I heard the the Stravinsky in it. I heard
• 52:30
  Speaker 3: everything in it. But I think that he's a very
• 52:32
  Speaker 3: unique musician.
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: I don't want to keep it too much longer, but
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: I do want to return to I feel like maybe
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: I glossed over Christopher Bond. We mentioned him a couple
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: of times during the conversation, so he comes in during
• 52:44
  Speaker 1: the band in lunchinette. Was it a reef that brought
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: him in?
• 52:47
  Speaker 3: No, he was. He's a Philly guy. He was. He
• 52:50
  Speaker 3: was in our band, John and I had our little
• 52:53
  Speaker 3: quartete and he was.
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: He was.
• 52:55
  Speaker 3: He was one of the guys.
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: He was in your bad.
• 52:57
  Speaker 3: I didn't realize he was in yeah, in the in
• 53:00
  Speaker 3: the beginning, Yeah.
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: Someone else from Philly. I was just scarious what happened
• 53:05
  Speaker 1: to Jim Helmer, who was the drummer Gulliver played on
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: Whole Oats incredible drum parts on that record.
• 53:12
  Speaker 3: I know it was good. I lost track at Jim.
• 53:14
  Speaker 3: I lost track of all those guys. I know, Tim
• 53:18
  Speaker 3: Moore was, he was a songwriter, guitar player. He was
• 53:21
  Speaker 3: a woodstock. That's all I know. But I don't know anything.
• 53:24
  Speaker 3: I have no idea what happened to Jim.
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: Just wanted, well I have you. I just that always
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: bugged me. Just didn't know what happened though.
• 53:31
  Speaker 3: Definitely the first person to ever asked me about Jim Milan,
• 53:34
  Speaker 3: which is cool.
• 53:35
  Speaker 1: Just bat and clean up here. I do want to
• 53:38
  Speaker 1: ask you about G. E. Smith too. How important do
• 53:42
  Speaker 1: you feel he was to that version of Holland Oates.
• 53:47
  Speaker 3: I think he added his very large personality to things.
• 53:52
  Speaker 3: I think that his guitar work on the records that
• 53:56
  Speaker 3: he played on on holl Of Oats Records, well it
• 53:58
  Speaker 3: was really really exceptional. I did. I think he did
• 54:01
  Speaker 3: a lot of things that were really amazing. He didn't
• 54:04
  Speaker 3: get the way he added the ge sound to it.
• 54:07
  Speaker 3: You know, I mean, I'm again a great guitar.
• 54:10
  Speaker 1: Player, and that the ge sound wasn't really you know,
• 54:14
  Speaker 1: uh a thing that I'd been on records like that before,
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: you know, I mean, you guys really were the first
• 54:20
  Speaker 1: to get him like that. Yeah, oh, give me a.
• 54:22
  Speaker 3: Brand new He was straight out of He's from Stroudsburg, Pennsylvania. Yeah, Yeah,
• 54:27
  Speaker 3: and I met him when he had just moved out
• 54:30
  Speaker 3: of there. Basically, did you just.
• 54:32
  Speaker 1: Let him go or was there much shaping? Would you
• 54:34
  Speaker 1: talk through parts with him?
• 54:35
  Speaker 3: Or I'd let him go, But I would let him
• 54:38
  Speaker 3: go within a controlled situation, you know, I mean and
• 54:40
  Speaker 3: tell him what I thought. And if he did something
• 54:43
  Speaker 3: I didn't like, I'd say tell him that too. You know,
• 54:45
  Speaker 3: he usually did the right thing. Was that a good
• 54:48
  Speaker 3: relationship overall? Or we had a we had a Leslie
• 54:53
  Speaker 3: good relationship because he's he's a He's a strange guy, man.
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: I mean he.
• 54:59
  Speaker 3: I don't know how to put it. Personality, His personality
• 55:03
  Speaker 3: of mine weren't exactly in line. That's the best way
• 55:07
  Speaker 3: I'll put it. I could put it.
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: I think that's a way that everyone can understand. Yeah,
• 55:13
  Speaker 1: it doesn't diminish the talent. Yeah, at this point, set
• 55:16
  Speaker 1: list wise, when you go do dates, how are you
• 55:20
  Speaker 1: picking a set list?
• 55:22
  Speaker 3: I do a little. Well, I'm I'm going to try
• 55:25
  Speaker 3: and emphasize the d album, but I think I'm going
• 55:28
  Speaker 3: to do about four songs from that. That's that's that's
• 55:31
  Speaker 3: my plan. Well, I'm already I've already been doing that.
• 55:35
  Speaker 3: And other than that, I play things from whatever, you know,
• 55:41
  Speaker 3: from whatever my history is. And there's certain songs that
• 55:46
  Speaker 3: you have to play. I mean, you know, I have
• 55:48
  Speaker 3: to play Sarah Smile, which is fine with me. You know,
• 55:51
  Speaker 3: I mix it up, I play Philly Mood, I play
• 55:54
  Speaker 3: all kinds of things.
• 55:56
  Speaker 1: Well, Darryl Hall, thank you so much for for for
• 55:59
  Speaker 1: talking about all this. I mean, that's a hell of
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: a musical history. So I mean, thank you, well, thanks
• 56:05
  Speaker 1: for having me. Manis description, you'll find a link to
• 56:10
  Speaker 1: a playlist of our favorite Darryl Hall tracks. Be sure
• 56:13
  Speaker 1: to check out YouTube dot com slash broken Record to
• 56:15
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• 56:18
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• 56:22
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• 56:25
  Speaker 1: is produced by Leah Rose with marketing help from Eric
• 56:28
  Speaker 1: Sandler and Jordan McMillan. Our engineer is Ben Tolliday. Broken
• 56:32
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  Speaker 1: Kenny Beats.
• 56:57
  Speaker 3: I'm justin Richmond.