Latest / 2nd City Gridiron / Bears Banter Ep. 214: Tyler Dunne joins to explain his explosive Bears article

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Bears Banter Ep. 214: Tyler Dunne joins to explain his explosive Bears article · 2nd City Gridiron

0:00
[SPEAKER_01]: That's right, bare-down bears fans this time for another edition of the Chicago Bears podcast Bears banter powered by second city grid iron bill Zimmerman with you and we are not doing the popping circumstance.
0:12
[SPEAKER_01]: We're not doing the big open today.
0:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Not even doing bare-down underneath us here as we on the audio version of the podcast.
0:20
[SPEAKER_01]: because I didn't feel pop and circumstance fit with today's podcast.
0:24
[SPEAKER_01]: We're doing a bonus podcast here.
0:26
[SPEAKER_01]: We've got our traditional bears podcast that's out here.
0:29
[SPEAKER_01]: You can check that out on the podcast feed.
0:32
[SPEAKER_01]: But we're doing a bonus podcast with tie done of go long.
0:35
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm sure a lot of bears fans right now.
0:37
[SPEAKER_01]: If you're listening to this, you're pissed off at me for giving tie done.
0:41
[SPEAKER_01]: any runway to talk about his piece that he did that was released late last week about Caleb Williams having issues with the coaching staff very combat of their very problematic and a lot of people had problems with the piece that the piece was slanted that there was an agenda there that it was a hit piece.
1:02
[SPEAKER_01]: There are as a part two and a part three, part two and part three, largely about Ryan polls and issues with Ryan polls, little bit about Kevin Warren, little bit about George McCaskey, but not as much issue with part two and part three fans really had issue with part one.
1:20
[SPEAKER_01]: So we're going to have Ty done on here to talk about it and I am not going to talk to Ty done and just say, whoa, tell me everything that happened.
1:30
[SPEAKER_01]: here.
1:30
[SPEAKER_01]: If you want to know what type of pieces, I suggest going to go along TD dot com and reading it, it is an obscene amount of length, obscene amount of length.
1:41
[SPEAKER_01]: I actually copied it into a word doc, so I could read it easily on my phone and kind of digest it in pieces rather than on the thing.
1:50
[SPEAKER_01]: And the whole thing.
1:51
[SPEAKER_01]: on a word double space on a word document was about 150 pages.
1:55
[SPEAKER_01]: It was insanely long piece, but I wanted to make sure I got through everything before I did this interview with Ty.
2:03
[SPEAKER_01]: So I had a chance to digest everything and go through it.
2:06
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I made some comments about the peace on social media.
2:09
[SPEAKER_01]: That got a lot of people upset that I said, hey, guys, maybe you should actually listen to the tie here.
2:14
[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't say, you know, if I thought things were true or false or anything, I just said, maybe you should listen to the tie here.
2:19
[SPEAKER_01]: That got a lot of fans upset as well.
2:21
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's what I want to do here with this interview is I want to talk to Ty done the journalist.
2:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Talk.
2:27
[SPEAKER_01]: get his background, how he ended up doing the type of work that he does, how he came across this bears information, why he decided to write the article, what went into doing sources and having that many sources, talk about was this a hit piece, was this an agenda driven piece by the coaches.
2:47
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, some of the other issues, the discussion that he decided to bring up a potential learning disability with Caleb Williams, the privacy issue with that as
2:58
[SPEAKER_01]: Why he decided to put that in the piece some of the word choice he used that got bears fans upset so I want to talk to him about the process of this article That's why I'm having tie done on and bears fans at that point if you listen to this this piece and you listen to what tie done had to say Then that's where I'm hoping bears fans can sit here and say
3:19
[SPEAKER_01]: maybe Ty had a point here.
3:21
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe there is something to this piece.
3:23
[SPEAKER_01]: I should pay attention to or you can listen to the tie done and say that's exactly what I thought.
3:29
[SPEAKER_01]: This is why I should dismiss the piece.
3:31
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what I want to do here.
3:32
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to say there's a tie done needs to come on and defend himself.
3:35
[SPEAKER_01]: But I think Ty done
3:37
[SPEAKER_01]: having an opportunity to explain his process, explain the article, explain why he felt this article, why this story was worth telling from the people that he spoke with, I think, is an interesting interesting angle that bears fans should listen to if they decide how much credence they want to put into this piece.
3:57
[SPEAKER_01]: Now
3:59
[SPEAKER_01]: I will give, I'm not going to spend too much time on it because I want to make sure there's enough time here for tie and you know, I'll be honest, I'm recording multiple podcasts here.
4:06
[SPEAKER_01]: I got plenty to say about the Minnesota Vikings game.
4:09
[SPEAKER_01]: So make sure you check out the other podcast that we're putting out here as well.
4:14
[SPEAKER_01]: But I do want to talk about it a little bit because it's jarring when you read this.
4:19
[SPEAKER_01]: Now,
4:20
[SPEAKER_01]: When the bears have a 10 game losing streak, when the bears are foreign to and finish 5 and 12, when the bears blow games like they did with the block field goal against the packers, the disaster against the Detroit Lions on Thanksgiving, the Hail Mary with Tyreeg Stevenson flexing in the corner, when all these things happen, like you know things aren't going well behind the scenes, right?
4:42
[SPEAKER_01]: Like you know, it's not Maddie, we're full of saying go get them and everyone's
4:48
[SPEAKER_01]: you know, high five in coach and everything's hunky-dory, like like we know everything's a problem.
4:53
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's not the issue.
4:55
[SPEAKER_01]: The issue is that most of us myself included wanted to put 99% of the blame on the coaching staff.
5:02
[SPEAKER_01]: And the one thing I kept saying is these players are professionals, it has to be on the players as well.
5:10
[SPEAKER_01]: Like for example, all the players seem to want Maddie to refuse fired, correct?
5:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, they got Maddie Burflus fired.
5:16
[SPEAKER_01]: He was fired.
5:17
[SPEAKER_01]: They had multiple games to go.
5:19
[SPEAKER_01]: And they're effort in a lot of ways.
5:20
[SPEAKER_01]: Got worse under Thomas Brown.
5:22
[SPEAKER_01]: It didn't get better.
5:24
[SPEAKER_01]: There should have been, you know, that what that expression is, the dead cat bouts, right?
5:29
[SPEAKER_01]: There should have been something that happened where you see that little spark from the team.
5:34
[SPEAKER_01]: But there was no spark.
5:36
[SPEAKER_01]: There nothing change.
5:37
[SPEAKER_01]: That 49ers game after you got fired.
5:39
[SPEAKER_01]: They was at the 310 yards to 2.
5:42
[SPEAKER_01]: at one point in that game, the 49ers dominated them.
5:45
[SPEAKER_01]: There was no spark from the Bears players, and there should have been.
5:50
[SPEAKER_01]: If they had taken some accountability, there should have been, but there was not.
5:54
[SPEAKER_01]: So this was an entire locker room issue that went beyond Caleb Williams, and it went beyond the coaching staff, which was frustrating to me when Ryan Paul's and Maddie were flues for three years, parked about their culture, and then you find out that the culture is a pile of due-do.
6:11
[SPEAKER_01]: that was where I had the most issues with coaches and with players.
6:17
[SPEAKER_01]: Now with Caleb Williams for example, we hadn't heard any of this.
6:22
[SPEAKER_01]: And in fact, we had heard a lot of people will hue it who was on this podcast, who's talked about in this article.
6:28
[SPEAKER_01]: Disbell a lot of the rumors about Caleb Williams not being personable, not being coachable, not being a hard worker.
6:35
[SPEAKER_01]: This stuff
6:39
[SPEAKER_01]: When on my podcast goes, that is not the case.
6:41
[SPEAKER_01]: That's not who Caleb Williams is.
6:43
[SPEAKER_01]: That's social media nonsense.
6:45
[SPEAKER_01]: And I believe we'll heal it on that.
6:47
[SPEAKER_01]: And some of his teammates have come out publicly and said, that's not who Caleb Williams is.
6:53
[SPEAKER_01]: I've heard from people who taught to,
6:56
[SPEAKER_01]: U.S.C.
6:56
[SPEAKER_01]: teammates off the air, off the record.
6:59
[SPEAKER_01]: And they said, that's not who Caleb Williams is.
7:01
[SPEAKER_01]: Where you said they're saying, well, of course they're going to say that on the record.
7:03
[SPEAKER_01]: But no, they said it off the record.
7:05
[SPEAKER_01]: Like he is a good teammate.
7:06
[SPEAKER_01]: He comes into the online room.
7:08
[SPEAKER_01]: He talks to us.
7:09
[SPEAKER_01]: Like we're, we're friendly with him.
7:11
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I heard this kind of stuff.
7:13
[SPEAKER_01]: So I sit and go, these are a lot of positives with Caleb Williams.
7:16
[SPEAKER_01]: This is not something we need to be concerned about.
7:19
[SPEAKER_01]: Then this piece comes out and the piece suggests
7:22
[SPEAKER_01]: that know these are things you do need to be concerned about because Caleb Williams is a little bit of a diva and does have some work ethic issues.
7:30
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think at this point with us with bears fans, we say no, we don't want to believe that.
7:35
[SPEAKER_01]: We don't want to hear that because we want Caleb Williams and Ben Johnson become Joe Montana and Bill Walsh.
7:41
[SPEAKER_01]: Of course we do.
7:42
[SPEAKER_01]: We want it to be Tom Brady and Bill Balachek.
7:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Of course we do.
7:46
[SPEAKER_01]: We as bears fans want to win
7:48
[SPEAKER_01]: So the idea that we have a quarterback, the best quarterback prospect the bears have ever had, that may not be the right quarterback prospect.
7:56
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a scary thought to have because I think a lot of us are sitting here saying if it doesn't work with Ben Johnson and Caleb Williams, is it ever going to work with anyone?
8:05
[SPEAKER_01]: And I honestly, I think that's a fair question to ask.
8:08
[SPEAKER_01]: It's been
8:11
[SPEAKER_01]: 75 years since the bears have had a great quarterback.
8:13
[SPEAKER_01]: They've had a pretty good one with Jay Color.
8:15
[SPEAKER_01]: They had a pretty good one with Jim McMan, but a great quarterback they have not had since Sid Lockman.
8:20
[SPEAKER_01]: So when they're in this situation,
8:23
[SPEAKER_01]: of not being able to get a good quarterback.
8:25
[SPEAKER_01]: And then they try a top three pick with Mitch Trimisky, doesn't work out.
8:29
[SPEAKER_01]: They try and basically a top 10 pick with Justin Fields, doesn't work out.
8:33
[SPEAKER_01]: Then they finally get the number one pick and the number one pick may not work out.
8:39
[SPEAKER_01]: That's not something that bears fans want to hear.
8:41
[SPEAKER_01]: So it says something I want to hear.
8:42
[SPEAKER_01]: So I don't want to sit here and say, it's like, you guys versus me, I'm in the same boat as you.
8:47
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to see this bears team be successful.
8:51
[SPEAKER_01]: If it doesn't work out with Ben Johnson and Caleb Williams like there's going to be heartbreak like legitimate heartbreak for me and from bear's face because you could sit there and be like how are they ever going to get this right that's where we are so I think when you hear part two and part three of Ryan polls being dismissive with a staff.
9:11
[SPEAKER_01]: about Ryan Poles not being maybe the most personable person.
9:15
[SPEAKER_01]: Some of the things that Ty done talked about in those people struggling shoulders and go, why don't care?
9:20
[SPEAKER_01]: Or that jives with probably what I feel about Ryan Poles because Ryan Poles isn't the most popular GM.
9:25
[SPEAKER_01]: Now there's some fans out there that love Ryan Poles.
9:27
[SPEAKER_01]: And they grind Poles is doing a great job.
9:29
[SPEAKER_01]: And they don't want to hear that as well.
9:30
[SPEAKER_01]: But either way,
9:32
[SPEAKER_01]: whether you're like Ryan Polls, whether you're ambivalent to Ryan Polls, or whether you're just like Ryan Polls as the Bears GM, there wasn't much of a reaction to part two and part three because it wasn't about Caleb Williams.
9:45
[SPEAKER_01]: And not just that it wasn't about Caleb Williams, but that the sources that he had for Ryan Polls, he said were people who are currently employed with the team.
9:56
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, so I don't have an issue with him speaking with the coaches that have been fired and that may have an agenda.
10:07
[SPEAKER_01]: My biggest, the two biggest issues I have with this piece is I felt like it wasn't balanced.
10:15
[SPEAKER_01]: I felt like the coaches got their words in and their
10:22
[SPEAKER_01]: I like to say that first one was probably about six, I don't know, let's call it, you know, 50,000 words.
10:28
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm making up a number.
10:30
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know how many words the first piece was.
10:31
[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't look.
10:32
[SPEAKER_01]: But let's say the first piece is 50,000 words.
10:34
[SPEAKER_01]: The coach's drove about 45,000 words and will he, you know, will he let a couple of thousand?
10:42
[SPEAKER_01]: Like it was very imbalanced.
10:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, he said he tried to speak with Caleb Williams and some other people,
10:48
[SPEAKER_01]: about Caleb Williams, didn't wasn't able to get those people to speak to him.
10:54
[SPEAKER_01]: We'll heal it, spoke to him.
10:55
[SPEAKER_01]: So...
10:56
[SPEAKER_01]: I sit there and say, I feel like there should have been more on a background saying, well, Caleb Williams, these coaches are saying Caleb Williams has work ethic issues, but this coach didn't, these other players didn't, you know, who have worked with him in the past.
11:11
[SPEAKER_01]: Just to show either saying, hey, something changed, and Caleb has issues, or at least let the
11:21
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe it's not true because you have two differing opinions about the same person.
11:27
[SPEAKER_01]: So I felt like there could have been more balance to the piece with a little bit more of, you know, for lack of a better term, Caleb Williams side of the story.
11:36
[SPEAKER_01]: Even though he had less access to Caleb Williams side of the story, still trying to find a way to sit there to balance out the piece a little bit.
11:47
[SPEAKER_01]: And the second piece was the dyslexia situation.
11:50
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, look, I'm going to be totally transparent.
11:52
[SPEAKER_01]: You can believe me, not believe me, doesn't matter to me.
11:54
[SPEAKER_01]: This is something I heard about several months ago.
11:57
[SPEAKER_01]: And I didn't put it in a podcast.
12:00
[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't write an article about it, because I am not a journalist.
12:03
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that's important to say here.
12:07
[SPEAKER_01]: I am not a journalist.
12:09
[SPEAKER_01]: I am not someone who understruces
12:15
[SPEAKER_01]: I am, in essence, a talk show host.
12:18
[SPEAKER_01]: I have opinions about the football team and I spew them into a podcast.
12:21
[SPEAKER_01]: I have opinions about this football team and I write, you know, opinion columns.
12:26
[SPEAKER_01]: That is not journalism.
12:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Two very different things.
12:29
[SPEAKER_01]: So I am not a journalist.
12:30
[SPEAKER_01]: Now,
12:31
[SPEAKER_01]: there have been times on social media that I've put some things out there and said, hey, this might be happening.
12:37
[SPEAKER_01]: Those are rumors.
12:38
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, there was a rampant rumor that Ben Johnson was going to be the next coach of the Raiders.
12:42
[SPEAKER_01]: That was totally false.
12:44
[SPEAKER_01]: That was rampant in NFL circles.
12:46
[SPEAKER_01]: I put it out on Twitter.
12:47
[SPEAKER_01]: People still fry me for it.
12:48
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's fine.
12:50
[SPEAKER_01]: I gave you a rumor, a wrong rumor.
12:52
[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, my name's attached to it.
12:54
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's part of the business.
12:55
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't have an issue with that.
12:57
[SPEAKER_01]: But,
12:58
[SPEAKER_01]: rumors and sources are also two very different things.
13:03
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, Ty done is sourcing an article.
13:05
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not sourcing, according to the source.
13:08
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not reporting anything.
13:09
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not trying to break news that Ben Johnson is going to the Raiders.
13:13
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm just sitting there saying, guys, I think he's going to the Raiders.
13:15
[SPEAKER_01]: That's two very different things.
13:18
[SPEAKER_01]: So what I do and what Ty done does is very different.
13:23
[SPEAKER_01]: So when I hear something about that, I'm not going to try and get down to the bottom of it and report it on social media or report it in an article because that I don't have the skill set, the ability to do that now tie here something like that he's going to try and dig it up a little and maybe you have.
13:42
[SPEAKER_01]: an issue with it being in there at all.
13:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, you know, clearly multiple sources talked to him about this, thought that this was a significant issue in terms of Caleb Williams development last year, about the fact that coaches were in the dark about it.
13:56
[SPEAKER_01]: They didn't know how to necessarily coach him properly.
13:59
[SPEAKER_01]: And maybe that led to a disconnect that led to Caleb Williams being more immature or more dismissive with this coaching staff because they weren't connecting at any level because of the because they were unaware of the situation so tie I'm assuming and we're going to find out here in a few minutes wanted to have that in the piece for per more for more perspective as to why things didn't work out last year.
14:23
[SPEAKER_01]: But for me, I have a, I have a privacy issue with that.
14:27
[SPEAKER_01]: That, that to me is a difficult decision that a journalist has to make in terms of whether that should be in there or not.
14:35
[SPEAKER_01]: And, and I do question it.
14:37
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know what the right answer is either.
14:40
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm not sitting here telling here sitting there before I have Ty done on saying, he was wrong to put this in or he was right to put this in.
14:47
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to ask him his opinion on why he decided to put that in because to me that is a tight rope to walk that is a high wire that's way up there without a safety net.
14:56
[SPEAKER_01]: That is a difficult thing to approach.
14:58
[SPEAKER_01]: And I know a lot of fans were upset about that.
15:00
[SPEAKER_01]: So
15:01
[SPEAKER_01]: We're going to talk to Tydon.
15:03
[SPEAKER_01]: We're going to get in all this with him.
15:05
[SPEAKER_01]: And we're going to do it next here.
15:07
[SPEAKER_01]: This is Bill Zimmerman, Bears Banner.
15:09
[SPEAKER_01]: Tydon of Go Long talks about his bears article next.
15:12
[SPEAKER_01]: We'll be right back.
15:13
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, welcome back into the podcast.
15:16
[SPEAKER_01]: And we are going to jump right into it with this man.
15:18
[SPEAKER_01]: He is Tyler Dunn of Go Long, his own sub stack.
15:23
[SPEAKER_01]: He's joining me here on his piece about Caleb Williams, Ryan Polls, and the Chicago Bears dysfunction in 2024.
15:31
[SPEAKER_01]: An explosive piece, a controversial piece, that got a lot of bears fans upset at the end of last week when this story came out.
15:40
[SPEAKER_01]: He joins me now, tie Bill Zimmerman, how you doing?
15:43
[SPEAKER_00]: Bill, it's always a pleasure, man, under any circumstances when we can't congregate and talk a little American football.
15:50
[SPEAKER_00]: So, thanks so much for the opportunity to chat.
15:53
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, absolutely.
15:54
[SPEAKER_01]: And I wanted to have you on it, not just to talk about this piece.
15:57
[SPEAKER_01]: So, to talk about kind of what...
15:58
[SPEAKER_01]: went into this piece and honestly to kind of talk about the process and how you ended up putting this piece out and getting all this information because look, just being totally forthright and honest here, a lot of bear's fans just felt that this was a hit piece felt that there was an agenda here and we're upset with a lot of things and look, you get some bear's fans are the dismissive.
16:21
[SPEAKER_01]: doing the who's who's tied on he's not on ESPN so why should I be paying attention to this so I know you've you've been at at multiple outlets and you know a few years ago you made the decision to be independent and create go long so if you just kind of talk about your background as as a reporter and how you got to try to become an independent journalist.
16:42
[SPEAKER_00]: No doubt Bill.
16:43
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, I launched go long in 2020.
16:47
[SPEAKER_00]: Just wanted to create just a home for long-form journalism.
16:50
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I've covered the NFL since 2007, I believe.
16:53
[SPEAKER_00]: And I've always kind of gravitated toward feature stories, sitting down with players, getting into their world, seeing what makes them tick.
17:01
[SPEAKER_00]: That's kind of like one bucket.
17:03
[SPEAKER_00]: And there's a lot of raw authenticity, a lot of emotion there.
17:06
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm thinking back to getting chicken wings with Demar Hamlin.
17:11
[SPEAKER_00]: world was introduced to them.
17:13
[SPEAKER_00]: They're in Cincinnati to Zay Jones in Jacksonville.
17:16
[SPEAKER_00]: We talked about that night where he almost hurled himself out of a window was at 30 or 50 floors up in LA and he was so open.
17:24
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that there's just, there's so much real raw authenticity to this sport that kind of gets lost.
17:30
[SPEAKER_00]: And that would be one, you know, direction that I like to go and the other are those team deep dives.
17:36
[SPEAKER_00]: It's it's kind of hurling yourself into, you know, I guess you could call it like a palace intrigue type of story.
17:43
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, what's really happening behind the scenes beyond a press conference, beyond what you see on TV, beyond what's being pushed by a team.
17:53
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that stuff really matters.
17:54
[SPEAKER_00]: So,
17:55
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I've covered the envelope for a while, you know, with the Syracuse, I covered the Packers at the Milwaukee Journal Center, which that was really funny, by the way.
18:04
[SPEAKER_00]: One of the blowback being that I'm a Packer fan, like, maybe it's because so many reporters just are openly fans.
18:10
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, I come from the Bob again, Tom Silverstein old school, like, you're objective, you're cutting, you got to cover the team, the good, the bad, the ugly, all of that, and yeah, there was a certain Packer story,
18:24
[SPEAKER_00]: Those fans didn't necessarily enjoy, but yeah, I was at the journal Sentinel, I was at the Buffalo news, covering the bills, the Rex Ryan era, which to this day, I'm so pissed off at it right at book.
18:34
[SPEAKER_00]: That was just a batch at crazy.
18:35
[SPEAKER_00]: You didn't know what the hell was going to happen with Rex.
18:38
[SPEAKER_00]: It was awesome.
18:39
[SPEAKER_00]: And then from there, I went to Bleach Report because they're expanding their feature department.
18:43
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm sure a lot of your listeners know, damn, Pompeii.
18:46
[SPEAKER_00]: one of my closest friends in the biz, just an unbelievable human being and addition to being an unbelievable reporter, so it was so cool to work with him at Bleacher Report for I believe that was like four or five years and then when they kind of got out of the words business and and feature writing and went to aggregation, I just kind of sat there, Bill, and I'm like, look, I
19:04
[SPEAKER_00]: I could keep working for people, keep working for companies, and media outlets are going to change their vision on a dive, or I built up this Rolex, I know players, coaches, scouts around the NFL, and teams as well.
19:17
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm just going to cover the football the way I want to cover football.
19:19
[SPEAKER_00]: If people enjoy it, maybe they buy a subscription and let's just see what happens.
19:24
[SPEAKER_00]: And so five years later, we're still going strong.
19:26
[SPEAKER_00]: And I just think that I think it really matters.
19:29
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, if you kind of take
19:33
[SPEAKER_00]: ESPN and in the NFL and that whole deal that they have now I mean there's a lot of really good reporters ESPN I'm not just throwing them all under the bus by any means but there's there's some inherent bias concerns there that you kind of worry about and I just think in general it's it's really hard to get
19:51
[SPEAKER_00]: heart-hitting journalism independent journalism in it.
19:54
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't even blame a lot of writers like there's a lot of writers out there that cover teams.
19:58
[SPEAKER_00]: Hell, they don't want to deal with Twitter mobs.
20:01
[SPEAKER_00]: They don't want to do with that.
20:02
[SPEAKER_00]: They don't want to do with that.
20:04
[SPEAKER_00]: I get it.
20:05
[SPEAKER_00]: Totally.
20:05
[SPEAKER_00]: I frankly, I don't give a shit.
20:06
[SPEAKER_00]: Like whatever.
20:08
[SPEAKER_00]: If you want, like
20:09
[SPEAKER_00]: The real story, it's not always going to be pretty, right?
20:13
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, you've got to kind of go places.
20:15
[SPEAKER_00]: People aren't willing or able to go to.
20:19
[SPEAKER_00]: So, yeah, I just, I think explaining this sport to people matters, Bill, like it really does.
20:25
[SPEAKER_00]: Fans are the ones out there, spend $70 for a ticket, $18 for a beer, and who knows what for a park.
20:32
[SPEAKER_00]: And maybe more than you paid for the ticket.
20:35
[SPEAKER_00]: And I just think that though, I think of those fans, right?
20:38
[SPEAKER_00]: devoting their money, their sanity, their time, if they want the rose-colored approach, there's many outlets for that, there's press conferences for that, that those options are available.
20:51
[SPEAKER_00]: I just think that, you know, as time passes, what's real kind of gets lost in the sauce, and so that's what I try to pursue at go long.
21:01
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that's really interesting.
21:03
[SPEAKER_01]: And I've talked to local beatwriters who have information that is reportable and that they would want to report it.
21:10
[SPEAKER_01]: And I've heard them say, if I report this, I know this team is going to ice me out.
21:14
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm going to lose access to the people within the organization.
21:18
[SPEAKER_01]: I can still go to press conference and ask questions.
21:20
[SPEAKER_01]: But being a local reporter goes a lot more beyond that.
21:23
[SPEAKER_01]: And if you really want to have the pulse of the team.
21:26
[SPEAKER_01]: So obviously, you talked about those team deep dives.
21:30
[SPEAKER_01]: And this is not the first one.
21:31
[SPEAKER_01]: You mentioned the Packers one that goes that was about Aaron Rogers and the toxic situation that was in Green Bay with him and some of the issues they had, especially towards the tail end of his time in Green Bay, I know you've done one in Buffalo.
21:44
[SPEAKER_01]: So what goes into the process like, how do you get to a point where you're like, let me look into this situation, is there something that's happening and how do you kind of
21:55
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I know you did want, yeah, like the Buffalo one is well with Sean McDermott, how do you get to a process where you put together an article that for a league that's very image conscious, you know is going to rub people the wrong way both in the league and fans that want to think that everything is going in the right direction for the team because everyone wants to win.
22:18
[SPEAKER_00]: No, no, that's a, that's a great question that because I kind of face that question every day like what is a story worth people's time like forget about actually bus not a credit card, you know, punching in those digits to buy subscription time is currency and everybody's busy.
22:34
[SPEAKER_00]: Everybody's got kids.
22:36
[SPEAKER_00]: Everybody's on social media apps.
22:37
[SPEAKER_00]: Everybody's running around like just actually sit down and read a story and learn something takes a commitment out of your day to do that, especially when you're right 27,000 words in this case with the house of dysfunction.
22:49
[SPEAKER_00]: So.
22:51
[SPEAKER_00]: I just think it's like a, a six cents, a curiosity.
22:55
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a kind of a compass.
22:56
[SPEAKER_00]: I've tried to develop over time, what's interesting, right?
23:00
[SPEAKER_00]: Like what's in people talking at the bar?
23:02
[SPEAKER_00]: And you mentioned a few examples in the past.
23:05
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, with the bills, I live here in Western New York.
23:08
[SPEAKER_00]: So,
23:09
[SPEAKER_00]: There's this is a team that has been banging on that Super Bowl door for a while.
23:13
[SPEAKER_00]: I got to know a lot of players and coaches around that organization and I just felt that there was a lot behind the scenes that fans didn't know and at that point it was a strange season.
23:35
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, here's why.
23:36
[SPEAKER_00]: Here's what's going on with the team and the head coach.
23:40
[SPEAKER_00]: Even before that, I did something on the New York Giants, the autopsy, Dave Gettlin, talking to a lot of those scouts and that culture, which wasn't that good behind the scenes.
23:50
[SPEAKER_00]: So when it comes to the bears, being fully transparent bill,
23:56
[SPEAKER_00]: I was probably like a lot of your viewers and a lot of your listeners pretty jacked up about this union at the start of the off season between Ben Johnson and all offensive genius and I've done a lot of lie in stories that this guy is a gift and I'm sure we'll get to it.
24:15
[SPEAKER_00]: He might just be talented enough despite everything that's in those 27,000 words to fix this team.
24:22
[SPEAKER_00]: I think he's got the power.
24:23
[SPEAKER_00]: I think he's got the intellectual ability.
24:27
[SPEAKER_00]: And I just was really excited about him.
24:30
[SPEAKER_00]: And then Caleb Williams, we talked about him.
24:32
[SPEAKER_00]: I think a year ago with a piece that I had to go along as well.
24:37
[SPEAKER_00]: uh... like most people have been digesting caliboyams in the form of highlights living on the east coast i wasn't you know grind in the all twenty two of u.s.c.
24:45
[SPEAKER_00]: games those two seasons but but it didn't even last season it just from a far it seemed like yeah the deck was stacked against him this is a classic case of a team screwing uh... young quarterback who's unbelievably talented
25:00
[SPEAKER_00]: So I guess that's to kind of get to why I did this story and just I'm thinking well what's what happened last year and where is this thing going and I started reaching out to people.
25:12
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
25:12
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you cover the NFL long enough, you build up a lot of relationships with a lot of people throughout different departments and all of these buildings, right, players, a lot of, a lot of I gravitate towards those player features more than anything, I love sitting down with a guy at dinner, you know, if somebody's eaten, they're probably they're probably happy and want to open up.
25:33
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's where we usually talk, but players.
25:36
[SPEAKER_00]: coaches, they jump from team to team, front office staffers, scouts, and so phones exist, right?
25:44
[SPEAKER_00]: So I just started called calling people, reaching out to as many people as I could, and suffice it to say how they explained,
25:54
[SPEAKER_00]: the 2024 season blew my mind.
25:56
[SPEAKER_00]: I was not expecting that whatsoever.
25:59
[SPEAKER_00]: So to me, it's newsworthy.
26:00
[SPEAKER_00]: It's no worthy.
26:01
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, wow.
26:03
[SPEAKER_00]: I think Bear's fans would want to know what happened in 2024 to try to get a sense for what's gonna happen in 2025.
26:12
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
26:13
[SPEAKER_01]: And before we get into the content and how you got to all that, the release, just a couple days, basically the Friday before the Bears opening game Monday night football, I think a lot of fans said, you know, that's you're trying to kind of derail it, nail the Bears right before game one.
26:29
[SPEAKER_01]: What was the thought process in decision?
26:31
[SPEAKER_01]: Is that just when the piece was ready of putting it out then and not maybe a couple weeks prior?
26:38
[SPEAKER_00]: I honestly, I don't know when the perfect time is to release these stories.
26:42
[SPEAKER_00]: That's definitely a common refrain.
26:44
[SPEAKER_00]: And look, I'm not going to sit here in rip fans at all.
26:49
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I got to quote the godfather.
26:51
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, this is the business we've chosen.
26:53
[SPEAKER_00]: No doubt about it.
26:54
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, really, who was it?
26:56
[SPEAKER_00]: Is it highman Roth that says it in that movie?
26:58
[SPEAKER_00]: I think.
26:59
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, forget that character.
27:01
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, but you're right, something that's critical.
27:05
[SPEAKER_00]: You should expect an explosive reaction as well.
27:09
[SPEAKER_00]: So totally get it.
27:10
[SPEAKER_00]: But when it comes to the time and of stories, gosh, I heard it on the Packers story, a bleacher report.
27:16
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that was shortly after they had hired Matt LaFlor when I put that out on, okay, here's what happened with Aaron Rogers,
27:28
[SPEAKER_00]: people how can how can you release it now and this new head coach was just just hired the bills same deal I mean that was the week that they played the Kansas City Chiefs they were six and six off of a buy and not good place how can you do this right now I had a such a big game and obviously I heard it on this series as well I don't know like when is the perfect time to release any story about any subject to me it's when the reporting is done
27:57
[SPEAKER_00]: frankly.
27:57
[SPEAKER_00]: And I wanted to take a lot of time on this.
28:01
[SPEAKER_00]: I thought that that's with bears.
28:02
[SPEAKER_00]: Fans and a throw fans, anybody consuming the sport should deserve.
28:06
[SPEAKER_00]: And one conversation kind of led to the next and the next and the next and the next 32 sources and all, and it wasn't just like five minutes here, five minutes there.
28:19
[SPEAKER_00]: And in some cases, it was five, six, seven, eight hours.
28:22
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's something you got hit published, right?
28:25
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I wanted to get this out before the season, to make a kind of our season preview type of deal and go along.
28:31
[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, it was Friday.
28:33
[SPEAKER_00]: I believe I put out part one, part two, and part three on Sunday, ahead of the game.
28:38
[SPEAKER_00]: I get, if people are upset about that, that's fine.
28:40
[SPEAKER_00]: That's completely their right, but that's when it was done.
28:43
[SPEAKER_00]: Really, I was getting calls up until hitting publish from people around the NFL,
28:48
[SPEAKER_01]: Gotcha.
28:49
[SPEAKER_01]: All right.
28:49
[SPEAKER_01]: So you brought up the sources.
28:51
[SPEAKER_01]: So let's talk about those sources, especially in part one, which of course is the part that that details Caleb Williams, the relationship with the coaches, how he was coach, what what the coaches were allowed, not allowed to do with them.
29:04
[SPEAKER_01]: A lot of interesting pieces of information in there.
29:07
[SPEAKER_01]: Now you openly admit in the piece that these sources are
29:13
[SPEAKER_01]: no longer with theme.
29:14
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if there's any, I know you said at one point with Ben Johnson you talked to like a current person, but you know, I would assume that these coaches have talked about last season are no longer with the organization.
29:25
[SPEAKER_01]: So the the thought process there was that a lot of fans felt, well, of course, they're going to defend what they did.
29:34
[SPEAKER_01]: They're going to point the finger at someone else.
29:36
[SPEAKER_01]: They're going to point the finger at Caleb Williams because that's
29:39
[SPEAKER_01]: That's the guy that, you know, and plus he had the Seth Whickersham book, where he talked about that, he didn't get coach properly and nobody watched film with him and he had to figure everything out on his own.
29:49
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm sure that rub coaches the wrong way.
29:51
[SPEAKER_01]: So now the coaches, not only are they fired and some of them fired mid-season, they're looking at a situation where, now they've got the player they were there to develop and create this offense is saying, well, they did a bad job.
30:05
[SPEAKER_01]: So now they're gonna be like, hey, we didn't do a bad job, he did a bad job.
30:09
[SPEAKER_01]: So the idea of these guys having an act to grind, having an agenda, and yes, they are legitimate sources, but they're giving you a slanted story.
30:19
[SPEAKER_01]: What would your response be to that?
30:21
[SPEAKER_00]: My response to that would be, this is a side to the story that nobody has heard at all.
30:27
[SPEAKER_00]: To my knowledge, and you told me that is anybody written a story, done a podcast, put out anything on,
30:36
[SPEAKER_00]: that point of view from the 2024 season.
30:39
[SPEAKER_00]: The coaches view no.
30:41
[SPEAKER_00]: I haven't seen it.
30:42
[SPEAKER_00]: So I just think in the realm of all public discourse, you've got
30:49
[SPEAKER_00]: Caleb Williams, press conferences, Ben Johnson, press conferences, media availability, the team itself putting out a show, all of this stuff, and it's all valuable, right?
30:59
[SPEAKER_00]: And people can kind of pick and choose what they want to consume.
31:02
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that their perspective matters.
31:06
[SPEAKER_00]: How can you understand where you're going if you don't know where you've been in life?
31:09
[SPEAKER_00]: In general,
31:11
[SPEAKER_00]: So, yeah, I'm the one reaching out to these coaches to learn what happened last season.
31:16
[SPEAKER_00]: I think we all saw the destruction.
31:18
[SPEAKER_00]: We see the bear's fire ahead coach for the first time ever.
31:22
[SPEAKER_00]: But 105,56 years, they've done that in the middle of a season.
31:26
[SPEAKER_00]: And then they fire, you know, they have to promote the Thomas Brown as an interim coach and at that point is just an unwindable situation.
31:36
[SPEAKER_00]: All of these last second just heartbreaking defeats all all with a quarterback that we kind of thought was going to be transcendent.
31:43
[SPEAKER_00]: All while Jane Daniels is winning 12 games with the Washington Commanders and taking them to the NFC championship game.
31:48
[SPEAKER_00]: So to me, I want to learn, like I'm just I'm just curious and I'm going to hear one thing and then call another person and then another person and just kind of see where it goes.
31:58
[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, look, if people want to feel that, hey, that's that's that's the right that's perfectly fine.
32:04
[SPEAKER_00]: I get it.
32:05
[SPEAKER_00]: And I you mentioned the the Seth Bicker Shambook, which I'm sure is going to be awesome.
32:10
[SPEAKER_00]: I can't wait to rate it.
32:10
[SPEAKER_00]: Seth is one of the best is Patriots book is an all timer.
32:15
[SPEAKER_00]: It's better to be feared.
32:16
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's called and I.
32:18
[SPEAKER_00]: I did start talking to coaches before that report came out.
32:24
[SPEAKER_00]: And I want to say there was another report down similar lines before that.
32:29
[SPEAKER_00]: But when it came out that Kail Williams is making it known, these coaches didn't help me watch film, yeah, I mean, yeah, they're pissed off, like what do you want me to say?
32:42
[SPEAKER_00]: They're upset about that, because to them,
32:45
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's an attack on their ability to do their jobs and what really happened last season.
32:52
[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, there are explosive quotes.
32:54
[SPEAKER_00]: Don't get me wrong.
32:55
[SPEAKER_00]: There was a lot I didn't use to, by the way, many stories that weren't used.
33:00
[SPEAKER_00]: You only get to so much, but there's also specific examples cited.
33:05
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm hopeful that a lot of your listeners and viewers like they subscribed and they read and digested this kind of, you know, beyond.
33:13
[SPEAKER_00]: Twitter and the that slot where it's just a screenshot here or there, because when you kind of dive in and you hear specific examples of what went down, you know, Caleb Williams just walking away if he doesn't like what you're saying or.
33:28
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, as early as OTAs needing to dumb down the offense to a level and kind of castrate the playbook because that's what he wanted and they're, you know, cutting back on the number of checks and audibles and having his best pal on the practice squad, there's a big picture angle there too.
33:47
[SPEAKER_00]: When all this stuff's going on, and they know what happened.
33:49
[SPEAKER_00]: And then all the players wanted the backup quarterback to start.
33:52
[SPEAKER_00]: And then all the GM said, hell no, and so many words.
33:55
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think they see a value in the public understanding what happened behind the scenes.
34:01
[SPEAKER_00]: So look, if you want to say sour grapes, that's fine.
34:04
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, there's probably some of that going on for sure.
34:07
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, they got fired.
34:10
[SPEAKER_00]: They had to uproot their lives.
34:12
[SPEAKER_00]: They have got kids and families and they had to move around.
34:14
[SPEAKER_00]: And again, that's the business they chose.
34:16
[SPEAKER_00]: They get it.
34:16
[SPEAKER_00]: It's cutthroat.
34:18
[SPEAKER_00]: Just again, with goal-long and what I try to do,
34:24
[SPEAKER_00]: figure out what happened.
34:25
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that this adds to the overall conversation of the Chicago Bears that that makes any sense, right?
34:32
[SPEAKER_00]: Because it is very different from what we've heard what we've been told already out there.
34:37
[SPEAKER_01]: No, and yeah, and absolutely now to push a little bit further on that.
34:43
[SPEAKER_01]: Now you did, you know, in the article, you said, you know, you did try and speak with Caleb Williams, weren't able to use Matt, even flew Ryan polls.
34:50
[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, they were, they were not part of the sourcing there and you were, you were open about that.
34:54
[SPEAKER_01]: Now you did use will he let.
34:56
[SPEAKER_01]: for a paragraph or so, and he's Caleb's private quarterback coach.
35:01
[SPEAKER_01]: He actually was on this podcast after Caleb was drafted.
35:04
[SPEAKER_01]: He's a good guy.
35:05
[SPEAKER_01]: He's worked with Caleb a long time, and you know, so I would sit there and say, all right, you know, you're telling the side of the coaches, do you feel
35:14
[SPEAKER_01]: obligated to try and balance that with in essence Caleb side.
35:18
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, like I said, I know you were stone-walled in some areas there, but at the same time, like Will Hewlett, Will Hewlett, did talk to you?
35:24
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you feel that maybe you should have given?
35:27
[SPEAKER_01]: I know you said you kind of a lot of stuff as is, but maybe more real estate to Will Hewlett who seem to be saying, yeah, I couldn't get Caleb off the field.
35:35
[SPEAKER_01]: He's a hard worker, this kind of stuff, to offset
35:38
[SPEAKER_01]: other coaches saying Caleb was lazy.
35:40
[SPEAKER_01]: Caleb didn't want to do a lot of stuff.
35:42
[SPEAKER_01]: He was, you know, basically, you know, you want your quarterback to be first guy in last guy out and, you know, a lot of those coaches are saying that basically Caleb was last guy in first guy out is what I felt like.
35:52
[SPEAKER_00]: no doubt Bill and and I think that when I mentioned will fuel it and and what he said about K. Williams there's a length there so it's you click that link and you're going to go to whatever it is five six thousand words a Q and A that I did with him earlier this off season so it's all there too on on his perspective knowing K. Williams like he knows them on a very personal level.
36:13
[SPEAKER_00]: And I want to say, like, by the way, part one is more, it's more so guiding folks through 2024.
36:20
[SPEAKER_00]: And what went wrong.
36:22
[SPEAKER_00]: I think everybody can agree.
36:24
[SPEAKER_00]: 2024 was a disaster.
36:25
[SPEAKER_00]: The bears were five and 12.
36:29
[SPEAKER_00]: people were fired.
36:30
[SPEAKER_00]: Expectations were high.
36:32
[SPEAKER_00]: Expectations were not met.
36:33
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's not going to be flowery.
36:36
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm sorry.
36:37
[SPEAKER_00]: I can't lie and say things are awesome.
36:41
[SPEAKER_00]: They won five games.
36:43
[SPEAKER_00]: But I also say this.
36:44
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's in the story too.
36:46
[SPEAKER_00]: I point out, yeah, in that Saturday, I think it was the Saturday walk through that you do like in the team hotel before they played the lines, which is going to be such an opportunity for Ben Johnson to see what he has in Caleb Williams.
37:00
[SPEAKER_00]: And for kind of both sides to feel each other out in a potential union, that Saturday was awful.
37:05
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I was told that Caleb Williams
37:10
[SPEAKER_00]: Play calls, I believe, like not knowing who to motion, getting things backwards and, and these coaches are thinking wholly hell, this is, this is going to be awful.
37:19
[SPEAKER_00]: This is a calamity.
37:20
[SPEAKER_00]: It's late this late in the season.
37:21
[SPEAKER_00]: And we still can't get it right.
37:22
[SPEAKER_00]: Though, those should be just 100% dialed in.
37:26
[SPEAKER_00]: Everybody knows what they're doing.
37:27
[SPEAKER_00]: What happened in that game?
37:28
[SPEAKER_00]: Caleb Williams was pretty damn good.
37:30
[SPEAKER_00]: He threw for like 300 yards, a couple touchdowns, did it off to show Ben Johnson, hey, maybe I can do something with this quarterback.
37:39
[SPEAKER_00]: that that's the dichotomy here.
37:40
[SPEAKER_00]: The talent is there.
37:41
[SPEAKER_00]: Even these coaches who rip Caleb Williams in ways he hasn't been ripped even they say.
37:49
[SPEAKER_00]: He's exceptionally talented.
37:51
[SPEAKER_00]: His arm is strong.
37:52
[SPEAKER_00]: He can improvise.
37:53
[SPEAKER_00]: He can create.
37:54
[SPEAKER_00]: He can do things out platform.
37:56
[SPEAKER_00]: All of that's there.
37:57
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that's what's kind of madness.
37:59
[SPEAKER_00]: They see that.
38:00
[SPEAKER_00]: They know that's there.
38:02
[SPEAKER_00]: But all the others, the playing quarterback and starting quarterback and being successful, making pro bulls, winning supros, it's more than just talent.
38:09
[SPEAKER_00]: And GM's across the NFL getting into all of this in part two as well.
38:12
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, when you're sitting down with these quarterbacks and getting to know these quarterbacks.
38:16
[SPEAKER_00]: So by the way, the bear's really didn't do that.
38:18
[SPEAKER_00]: with anybody not named Caleb Williams, you've got to figure out what makes them tick.
38:22
[SPEAKER_00]: What's burning inside?
38:23
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that that's where their frustrations, frustrations really lies.
38:27
[SPEAKER_00]: They were trying, like, hell, to get it out of him.
38:30
[SPEAKER_00]: You had one coordinator in Shane Waldron who was non-confrontational.
38:35
[SPEAKER_00]: more passive.
38:36
[SPEAKER_00]: So if Caleb maybe walked away, I wouldn't really say anything and, you know, completely changes offense for the quarterback, didn't really work.
38:43
[SPEAKER_00]: When you move to a like a Thomas Brown, he is old school.
38:45
[SPEAKER_00]: He is in your face.
38:46
[SPEAKER_00]: But by that point, it's a little too late.
38:48
[SPEAKER_00]: There's only five games left.
38:50
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think that, yeah, and Ben Johnson, there's hope because he's got a full off season.
38:56
[SPEAKER_00]: You've got a full training camp.
38:58
[SPEAKER_00]: He is,
38:59
[SPEAKER_00]: old school.
39:00
[SPEAKER_00]: Like he is going to lock himself in his office and seek every solution to every question that a quarterback could possibly face on game day.
39:08
[SPEAKER_00]: I've talked to people in a bin around Ben Johnson and Miami, bin around him into Troy.
39:13
[SPEAKER_00]: This dude grinds.
39:15
[SPEAKER_00]: He is going to, if you saw that Monday night, there were many plays where receivers were open.
39:21
[SPEAKER_00]: But the quarterback couldn't hit him.
39:22
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that he's schematically going to dial up things and make it very conducive for a quarterback to be successful.
39:28
[SPEAKER_00]: And this was in the story as well.
39:29
[SPEAKER_00]: Look at Josh Allenville.
39:31
[SPEAKER_00]: Again, live here in Buffalo.
39:32
[SPEAKER_00]: His rookie year, people were not sure if this dude was going to work out.
39:38
[SPEAKER_00]: 52% of his paths as he completed, left over Anthony Bar, did some fun things here and there, Patrick Holmes, I think he played what 62 snaps is a rookie.
39:46
[SPEAKER_00]: Joe Burrow goes two seven and one tears as ACL.
39:48
[SPEAKER_00]: So that that context does matter like things can go haywire as a rookie because chances are if you're drafted high you went to a bad situation a bad team and
39:59
[SPEAKER_00]: it's not gonna work out more than it's gonna work out.
40:03
[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, it's with Ben Johnson, there's a chance, there's hope, all of that, but I think it really does matter.
40:09
[SPEAKER_00]: Like these teams, not just the bears, all teams have to try to figure out, like what's inside of a quarterback?
40:16
[SPEAKER_00]: It's he is he gonna do that extra stuff.
40:19
[SPEAKER_00]: Is he gonna do that virtual reality?
40:21
[SPEAKER_00]: Is he gonna do extra film session?
40:22
[SPEAKER_00]: Is he gonna show up for those optional past protection meetings?
40:25
[SPEAKER_00]: Is he gonna connect with teammates?
40:27
[SPEAKER_00]: Does he have that ability to to be a multiplier and there there was a lot of concern from other teams other GMs that sat down with Caleb Williams that he he doesn't have that.
40:40
[SPEAKER_00]: And that this is a whole other conversation, but there that the bears were very all Caleb all the way and I think that when you kind of think that way it.
40:49
[SPEAKER_00]: it led into the football, right?
40:51
[SPEAKER_00]: It led the coddling and with that sense of entitlement, all of that kind of sift it into OTAs into training camp.
40:59
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's where these coaches are guilty.
41:01
[SPEAKER_00]: And they'd be the first to tell you too.
41:03
[SPEAKER_00]: They should have stood up too more earlier.
41:04
[SPEAKER_00]: By the time that they tried to and get Beijing in there, get some reps going, off that patriots loss,
41:13
[SPEAKER_00]: By that time, by the way, Paul said, I was told that somebody were telling that that's not happening, and it's too late.
41:20
[SPEAKER_00]: Like you can't, you know, there was no turning back.
41:24
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's how I was really intrigued.
41:25
[SPEAKER_00]: And hey, we're one game into the season.
41:28
[SPEAKER_00]: Right, I know we all, we all over React a week, whatever season, and it was, it was ugly.
41:34
[SPEAKER_00]: The Bears and Total Control, but it's one game in, and I think in Ben Johnson, there is a ray of hope
41:44
[SPEAKER_01]: All right.
41:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, you talked about kind of how he was handled with kid gloves and all and you also talked about Thomas Brown being more in your face.
41:49
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's one thing that I think is interesting here is, and look, with Ryan Polls trying to play Kate Caleb to make sure you can draft him and get him in the building.
42:00
[SPEAKER_01]: I do actually understand that to a certain capacity.
42:02
[SPEAKER_01]: You don't want to have any line-maning situation on your hands.
42:05
[SPEAKER_01]: But,
42:06
[SPEAKER_01]: Once he's in the building, I think that could have changed things.
42:09
[SPEAKER_01]: And you said that maybe the coaches are looking at things going, they should have been tougher with him earlier.
42:15
[SPEAKER_01]: So maybe I missed Reddit, but I feel like you were saying earlier that Ryan Polls told the coaches, no, you got to give this guy whatever he wants, be nice, codel him, do what needs to be done.
42:27
[SPEAKER_01]: But Thomas Brown was able to get in his face.
42:29
[SPEAKER_01]: So was that a coaching decision by the coaching staff to codel him?
42:32
[SPEAKER_01]: Or was that Ryan Polls?
42:34
[SPEAKER_01]: And if it was Ryan Paul's why was Thomas Brown at that point allowed to get in Caleb's face so to speak?
42:40
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I don't think that Brian Paul's necessarily like had a meeting with the coaches and told them, Look, we need to kiss this guy's ass.
42:48
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think that it's like an actual direct conversation.
42:51
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think it was more of a atmospheric obvious condition.
42:59
[SPEAKER_00]: as early as OTAs that, you know, this isn't a normal quarterback being coached by, I mean, these coaches told me they'd be in meetings, they would ask Caleb Williams a question and he would just kind of look at them with a
43:18
[SPEAKER_00]: And there was other times he'd just be on the wrong page when they were going over stuff and he just wasn't that engaged so I think that the fact right and this is an interesting conversation too because you're right Bill I'm open to that argument like maybe when there's a transcendent talent maybe you just do everything that you can to convince him to play for you that's kind of what up with the deal was it felt like.
43:43
[SPEAKER_00]: with Caleb Williams and the Bears, because nobody who flew to the hell, they wanted to play there, but roles were absolutely reversed in this case.
43:53
[SPEAKER_00]: It wasn't a quarterback interviewing for a job.
43:57
[SPEAKER_00]: It was very much team recruiting quarterback.
44:01
[SPEAKER_00]: Team trying to convince quarterback to choose them, to think it's okay to play for you.
44:07
[SPEAKER_00]: And look, Caleb probably has a,
44:10
[SPEAKER_00]: Good argument.
44:10
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, when you look at what's been happening in quarterbacks there in Chicago for a long long time, we talked about it last year with some of these guys, but in Brian polls is it's so convicted that Caleb Williams is another Patrick Mahomes, right?
44:24
[SPEAKER_00]: He's he's telling us scouts that.
44:27
[SPEAKER_00]: Look, he's got these mohomes and qualities.
44:30
[SPEAKER_00]: If I don't take in the media will kill me, we gotta get this guy.
44:33
[SPEAKER_00]: If you believe that, and I've talked to Scout to do not have many nice things to say about Ryan Polls, who say, look, even then I get it.
44:43
[SPEAKER_00]: Like you want to be able to sleep at night as a GM.
44:46
[SPEAKER_00]: You want to get your guy and go down swing him with your guy because if you're riding poles and you don't take Caleb Williams and he goes to Washington or New England and he's tearing it up, man, you wouldn't be able to live with yourself.
44:57
[SPEAKER_00]: I totally get that, but the problem.
45:00
[SPEAKER_00]: is the process.
45:01
[SPEAKER_00]: This is the most consequential decision in modern bears history.
45:05
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you've got the number on overall pick.
45:07
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a lot of unbelievably talented quarterbacks.
45:10
[SPEAKER_00]: Jane Daniels just won the Heisman.
45:11
[SPEAKER_00]: Drake made it to some special things in North Carolina.
45:14
[SPEAKER_00]: Bonex, Michael Panics played like with forever.
45:17
[SPEAKER_00]: Jane McCarty won a national championship.
45:19
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think with
45:20
[SPEAKER_00]: What irked people in those draft meetings is that it wasn't an actual conversation or discussion, let alone it debate about any of these other guys.
45:31
[SPEAKER_00]: Right, and Drake May is literally getting laughed off the screen when they pull up his film.
45:35
[SPEAKER_00]: Jane Daniels, there's no serious conversation ahead, and Jane Daniels can't pick up on it.
45:42
[SPEAKER_00]: Right, by the time the bears are interested in bringing him in on a top 30, I thought to somebody who knows Jane really well, they're like, well, no, we know where the wind was blowing.
45:50
[SPEAKER_00]: We're not going through a dog and pony show.
45:52
[SPEAKER_00]: It seems like Caleb's your guy, so no thanks.
45:54
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think it's too many jobs around the line, right?
45:58
[SPEAKER_00]: Too much is that stake.
46:00
[SPEAKER_00]: Tell me a bear's decision that is mattered more than this one in our lifetime.
46:04
[SPEAKER_00]: I can't think of one really when you've got the first over all pic.
46:08
[SPEAKER_00]: And to not,
46:09
[SPEAKER_00]: It did not go through a painstaking process, bare minimum, I think should blow a lot of people's minds, fill in that stadium, right?
46:19
[SPEAKER_00]: Spending their harder money to the McCaskey family, all of that, like there should at least be some deliberation, some due diligence, and there really wasn't.
46:28
[SPEAKER_00]: If anything, the tape was manipulated in a way to gently,
46:35
[SPEAKER_00]: persuade the room toward the Caleb Williams direction.
46:38
[SPEAKER_00]: And the scouts get into that in part two of our series where, you know, you're showing Drake May's worst moments as a first impression.
46:47
[SPEAKER_00]: And the Chuck Lane turns into laughter.
46:48
[SPEAKER_00]: And you know, Jane Daniels, yeah, you'll talk about some of those negatives.
46:53
[SPEAKER_00]: The picture of his elbow, like, can he really hold up physically?
46:57
[SPEAKER_00]: But nothing really negative has ever said about Caleb Williams in the draft room.
47:02
[SPEAKER_00]: is what I was told by people in there, you know, that you're not like watching play to play that Notre Dame game, just kind of talking about it.
47:10
[SPEAKER_00]: Not even discussing work ethic, questions, not really breaking down, like can his style of play work in the NFL?
47:18
[SPEAKER_00]: Like why wouldn't it work?
47:20
[SPEAKER_00]: And there's just no Caleb Williams or Jaden Daniels,
47:24
[SPEAKER_00]: debate had with the whole room.
47:27
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, it could have been had with those top four guys.
47:30
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think I mentioned that, you know, when you've got Ryan Polls, Jeff King, Ian County and Tracos, maybe they did behind the scenes kind of, but when you bring everybody in, I just know that there's teams around the NFL that would embrace collaboration, genuine collaboration, and genuine back and forth with so much as that stake.
47:49
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a GM that I talked to.
47:51
[SPEAKER_00]: who was, you know, love Jane Daniels.
47:54
[SPEAKER_00]: And he even asked me at one point, man, like, did you hear anything about the bears and Jane Daniels?
48:01
[SPEAKER_00]: And where they interested in them at all, because I think this GM, I think other GMs, I think a lot of teams would have given up two or three first-time picks for this guy.
48:10
[SPEAKER_00]: So, yeah, maybe at the end of the day, that was told this as well.
48:15
[SPEAKER_00]: The end of the day, it probably wouldn't have mattered but anybody said in that room.
48:19
[SPEAKER_00]: Like Ryan Paul has as the that's the power at that point, he would have taken Caleb Williams back when he wasn't even draft eligible off of that high as my season.
48:28
[SPEAKER_00]: So I probably probably wouldn't have met but I don't know it's a professional football team if you're going to dissect prospects up and down that you might take in the seventh round, I just don't know why you wouldn't do it at number one overall.
48:42
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and I think some of the stuff you're saying there about Ryan Polls and him being dismissive about people under him and in his staff lines up to a piece of Dan Weeder did in November, kind of talking about Ryan Polls in his free agent process, trade process with Nate Davis and Chase Claypool.
48:57
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think that that kind of confirms that we've already heard some of that kind of similar conversation about that.
49:04
[SPEAKER_01]: But I do want to bring you back to a couple other things in part one.
49:08
[SPEAKER_01]: One was, and this I actually saw that this might
49:12
[SPEAKER_01]: It's certain fans more than anything else was actually a word choice you had because Caleb Williams, who you know, paints his nails, he's, you know, unique, unique individual, pink, you know, like like the colored pink has a pink phone case, all that stuff.
49:26
[SPEAKER_01]: That kind of stuff goes on to social media and Caleb gets a lot of vitral tossed his way about his masculinity and at one point in the piece you did talk about him being a glitzy, prancing gazelle and a lot of people felt no, I didn't say prancing.
49:41
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, let's see Gazelle.
49:44
[SPEAKER_01]: But anyway, those type of words, a lot of people felt perpetuated that whole social media online, you know, vitral towards Caleb Williams, and that that was kind of a loaded line.
49:59
[SPEAKER_01]: Some people were using the words, you know, that that was a homophobic type line for you to put in there.
50:04
[SPEAKER_01]: So what would your response be about that word choice?
50:07
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I would say this bill.
50:09
[SPEAKER_00]: I've been right now in NFL features by entire life, basically, you know, since college and you're gonna describe players and teams and situations and many different words.
50:22
[SPEAKER_00]: And so if people are upset about three words in a 27,000 words series, that's, like I said, that's the right, but I'm telling you, they're looking for something that does not exist.
50:34
[SPEAKER_00]: I just, I get it, people who are,
50:36
[SPEAKER_00]: Our angry when something like this comes out, right?
50:38
[SPEAKER_00]: It's on the cusp of an NFL season.
50:41
[SPEAKER_00]: There's hope in the air.
50:42
[SPEAKER_00]: There's optimism and a three-part series comes out that casts doubt over this team over this quarterback.
50:50
[SPEAKER_00]: And I, I,
50:51
[SPEAKER_00]: To me, to point out, you know, Sashay, I mean, that's kind of how these coaches Sashay, that was it, not prancing Sashay, that's what I was saying.
50:59
[SPEAKER_00]: When he would walk away, that's what they told me.
51:00
[SPEAKER_00]: It was kind of like he's just Sashay and he's walking away.
51:04
[SPEAKER_00]: So, yeah, I mean, I'm tempted to tell him, you're like, there is no ill will here at all.
51:09
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't care when people are saying on social media around the kaleways and everything that you just kind of discuss in the way he carries himself.
51:16
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, you can do whatever he wants and there's a coach in our series at one point and said, look, I mean, if he's winning games and he's throwing darts and bringing the bear's back, nobody's going to give a damn about anything he does off the field.
51:29
[SPEAKER_00]: Really?
51:30
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't care, nobody should care.
51:32
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just, yeah, I don't, to me, I hear glitzy and I'm thinking, man, this you can't catch this due to the open field.
51:40
[SPEAKER_00]: He is entertaining as hell.
51:43
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, it's hard to get to gazelle in the safari, like I'm just telling you, people are looking for something that doesn't exist there, it's if they're upset.
51:52
[SPEAKER_00]: That's, again, that's the right, but yeah.
51:56
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, and I do want to ask you one more thing about part one, and this is one, and we actually talked about this off air, and that was the discussion of a potential learning disability potential dyslexia that that Caleb Williams may or may not have you did not say he absolutely has this you suggested it as a thing and I think that to me is a really.
52:16
[SPEAKER_01]: difficult choice that a journalist has to make.
52:18
[SPEAKER_01]: It's an interesting choice because, you know, if this is something that Kale Williams is dealing with and he at 23 years old, this is clearly something he's been trying to keep from the public.
52:29
[SPEAKER_01]: And this is something that you did report on and whether, you know, talking to coaches or other people.
52:34
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think there's a lot of gray area there in terms of a privacy issue.
52:39
[SPEAKER_01]: And I know, you know, there's HIPAA and that that doesn't
52:47
[SPEAKER_01]: Adam Shepter put out Jason Pierre Paul's medical is when he injured his hand from the fireworks explosion.
52:53
[SPEAKER_01]: And you know, a lot of people were, why is Adam Shepter doing that?
52:56
[SPEAKER_01]: That's Jason Pierre Paul's medical.
52:57
[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, I know this situation is a little different, but
53:02
[SPEAKER_01]: What was the thought process when you started hearing these types of things in terms of deciding to put that in the piece because the counterpoint to that also being that if he doesn't have a learning disability, if that isn't something that he's dealing with, there's an inference there that that Caleb's way not Caleb Williams may not be smart enough to play quarterback at that level too, which is also.
53:26
[SPEAKER_01]: a way you could see where people would be upset that, you know, where that is.
53:29
[SPEAKER_01]: So I thought that was a, you know, it was a difficult decision for you to have to make, and I'm just curious how you came about this information and how your, what your thought process was to finally put that in the piece.
53:43
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
53:43
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I think when you're trying to, to learn as much as you possibly can, about a team, about a quarterback, about anything, you're going to come across a lot.
53:53
[SPEAKER_00]: this is something that multiple people brought up as relevant, as newsworthy, you know, as I wrote multiple sources saw evidence of it.
54:06
[SPEAKER_00]: So, to them, it's not mere speculation.
54:10
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, they saw evidence of it.
54:11
[SPEAKER_00]: And so, I think on the scouting side, there is
54:16
[SPEAKER_00]: a little bit of the frustration in the fact that, okay, like we're not talking about work ethic, we're not talking about, you know, real-on-field concerns here with the way he plays.
54:27
[SPEAKER_00]: And we're gonna talk about medical stuff going on with all of these other prospects, but we're not gonna do this here.
54:35
[SPEAKER_00]: And what I was told is that the general manager Ryan Polls knew about this, but kept the information tight to the best.
54:45
[SPEAKER_00]: This is all in there too, like this could have been a case of just negligence, you know, maybe full ostrich mode had in the stands by the time you find out and you're just all in Caleb and it, you know, it's full steam ahead or they believe it, maybe it is a cover up because a leak could have spooked and maybe there's an argument to be had there that if this, if you do talk about this openly in those scout meetings,
55:10
[SPEAKER_00]: It leaves the building and you're pissing off Caleb Williams, the quarterback that you've loved forever and you're only hurting yourself because now you're the GM pursuing that.
55:20
[SPEAKER_00]: So, and then the coaches, yeah, they they found out about it late late in the season.
55:26
[SPEAKER_00]: It's it's in there.
55:27
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, Thomas Brown, when he found out a source told me he confronted Ryan polls and it was like, wow, this, this would have been really good to know.
55:35
[SPEAKER_00]: Right, we would have coached him differently.
55:37
[SPEAKER_00]: And like they're not blaming Caleb Williams, they want to help him.
55:42
[SPEAKER_00]: They would have coached him differently.
55:44
[SPEAKER_00]: Like they would have done different things and they cite specific examples.
55:47
[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, I suppose you could just completely ignore all of that to me enough people brought it up to a point where it is relevant.
55:58
[SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, you have to be careful with how you report on it.
56:01
[SPEAKER_00]: And I did it at as such because I just think that it came up with so many different people who dealt with the quarterback and the team in so many different ways and at the same time, though, Bill, I think this is very important to remember is, hey, I mean the bigger the bigger thing is that it's just not
56:18
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not discussed in amongst the bears, and then I figure out a plan, because I think if you know this, you chart a plan and you figure out the best way to maximize our town, whatever, the situation could be.
56:30
[SPEAKER_00]: Like you wanna help this guy and every conceivable way.
56:34
[SPEAKER_00]: Other teams do that kind of stuff.
56:36
[SPEAKER_00]: So, but it's also important to note all of these coaches say that that is the leap, and their dealings with the quarterback, like the leap was the least of their worries.
56:46
[SPEAKER_00]: And when I was, and I asked him like, is, all right, you're telling me this thing about dyslexia, but you're also telling me all this other stuff.
56:55
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, you know, they think there's a level of empathy that comes with it, but they say all that other stuff mattered a hundred times more.
57:03
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it was, nothing matters if you're not willing to really put in that work day in and day out.
57:08
[SPEAKER_00]: So I get it, no, again, sensitive subject without a doubt.
57:12
[SPEAKER_00]: But there's a, it came up enough from enough people that, again, if we're going to try to bring readers and fans, the real story, what's happened behind the scenes, this organically woven's way into, I, hell, you read the part one, I don't even think it came up for, what, five, six, seven thousand words into it.
57:32
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it was much further.
57:33
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not the story, but I know that it would be something that people would talk about.
57:37
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, so let's add this on a positive note and you talked about it a few times throughout here in that's Ben Johnson.
57:45
[SPEAKER_01]: So let's talk about what people had to say about Ben Johnson.
57:49
[SPEAKER_01]: I know you also said in the piece that you spoke with someone who's on the staff currently said that the Caleb Williams relationship with this coaching staff seems to be really well, which you wonder and look.
58:05
[SPEAKER_01]: with the previous coaching staff and kind of quit on them.
58:08
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not saying that that's an okay thing, but maybe that those work ethic issues aren't don't exist with someone like Ben Johnson for him.
58:16
[SPEAKER_01]: Hopefully that's the case there.
58:17
[SPEAKER_01]: But the other thing I want you to talk about is you mentioned the power in the organization where, you know, we see that there are organizations where like the chiefs, for example, where and Andy Reid Show in Kansas City.
58:29
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm not obviously there's there's a GM there.
58:32
[SPEAKER_01]: but it's Andy Reed's show.
58:34
[SPEAKER_01]: So when you say the power there and we know Kevin Warren was involved in the hiring process, it wasn't just Ryan Paul's decision.
58:41
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you feel that that's a dynamic there?
58:43
[SPEAKER_01]: Is it a 50, 50 thing with Ryan Paul's?
58:45
[SPEAKER_01]: Is this Ben Johnson's football operations?
58:48
[SPEAKER_01]: If it's not by title just by what it is in the building?
58:52
[SPEAKER_01]: And of course, and then you know, talk about Ben Johnson's relationship with Caleb Williams and Ben Johnson as a head coach and anything you learned about that.
59:00
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's where it gets really interesting.
59:02
[SPEAKER_00]: Because I think we have to, as they say in the wire, follow the money, I mean, 13 milliere, I'd imagine that is quite a bit more money than the general manager is making on this reported contract extension.
59:15
[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, I think the Ben Johnson is if he doesn't have final authority, no doubt about it in writing, write this second.
59:26
[SPEAKER_00]: Look at the moves.
59:29
[SPEAKER_00]: taking a chance on like a Luther burden.
59:32
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, there's a source who told me that that's a prospect that we wouldn't have taken in the past.
59:37
[SPEAKER_00]: Like that kind of, with his red flags.
59:39
[SPEAKER_00]: And Bob again, he does his draft series at our site kind of get into the drama.
59:43
[SPEAKER_00]: Back in the drama.
59:44
[SPEAKER_00]: Incredible talent.
59:45
[SPEAKER_00]: So that kind of maybe hints at Ben.
59:48
[SPEAKER_00]: getting some power, and that to draft the tight end in the first round two years after you paid Cole Commett all that money, I kind of hinted at a little bit too.
59:57
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that, yeah, it's what Mitt Mitt August is when this news dropped that John Jackson the third was waived.
1:00:03
[SPEAKER_00]: This is a player who did essentially nothing in college.
1:00:09
[SPEAKER_00]: but was on the practice squad because he's very tight with Caleb Williams.
1:00:12
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, that's again, that's another debate that could be had.
1:00:15
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe that's a good thing.
1:00:16
[SPEAKER_00]: The GM should do.
1:00:17
[SPEAKER_00]: Make your quarterback happy.
1:00:19
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what they did in 2024.
1:00:21
[SPEAKER_00]: Ain't do that in 2025.
1:00:22
[SPEAKER_00]: So that again tells me that Ben Johnson is gaining power if not already, having the power.
1:00:28
[SPEAKER_00]: And for what it's worth, somebody told me that they think that, you know, Jeff King internally is a really sharp evaluator and possibly
1:00:38
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I don't want to say gaining power.
1:00:41
[SPEAKER_00]: This isn't some cool at all.
1:00:43
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, he's been there since what 2015, but I think he's a force to go behind the scenes.
1:00:46
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that he's a really smart, really smart evaluator and maybe he can kind of chime in here and there.
1:00:54
[SPEAKER_00]: What I was speaking up more, he has more of a voice than he maybe had in the past.
1:00:58
[SPEAKER_01]: Interesting.
1:00:59
[SPEAKER_01]: All right.
1:00:59
[SPEAKER_01]: So there it is.
1:01:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Ty done from golongtd.com.
1:01:02
[SPEAKER_01]: Ty, I said 20 to 30 minutes and here we are sitting at 46 minutes.
1:01:07
[SPEAKER_01]: I really appreciate it.
1:01:07
[SPEAKER_01]: There was a lot of content to get through.
1:01:09
[SPEAKER_01]: I appreciate you being so forthright about how you got to this piece.
1:01:13
[SPEAKER_01]: Everything that went into it and, you know, like I said, a lot of bears fans are upset.
1:01:17
[SPEAKER_01]: A lot of bears fans had their their eyes open.
1:01:19
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe both at the same time, but appreciate so much time and keep doing long form journalism.
1:01:25
[SPEAKER_01]: It's always a great part of NFL media.
1:01:28
[SPEAKER_00]: No, I love talking to you, Bill.
1:01:29
[SPEAKER_00]: Thanks so much for the opportunity.
1:01:32
[SPEAKER_00]: Any day, any time, say the word, we'll make it happen.
1:01:34
[SPEAKER_00]: Sounds good.
1:01:36
[SPEAKER_01]: All right.
1:01:36
[SPEAKER_01]: There he is.
1:01:37
[SPEAKER_01]: Tied on everybody.
1:01:39
[SPEAKER_01]: I thought tied in a good job explaining himself.
1:01:42
[SPEAKER_01]: I thought tied in a good job kind of going in the things.
1:01:45
[SPEAKER_01]: And as he was explaining things kind of going through the content of what he heard.
1:01:49
[SPEAKER_01]: So look, he did talk about the fact that maybe there was some he admitted it that maybe these coaches had a bit of an agenda.
1:01:57
[SPEAKER_01]: Now does that mean I think that what the coach has said is fabricated or made up?
1:02:01
[SPEAKER_01]: No.
1:02:02
[SPEAKER_01]: I think what we're hearing is we're hearing one side of the story there.
1:02:06
[SPEAKER_01]: We are not hearing Caleb William's side.
1:02:08
[SPEAKER_01]: Will someone sit down with Caleb Williams and ask him these things?
1:02:11
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe eventually it might be a couple of three years down the road.
1:02:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Once he's really established with Ben Johnson and things are going well there, then maybe yes Caleb will talk about the things that went wrong in his rookie season and will be asked about some of the things the coaches had to say about him.
1:02:26
[SPEAKER_01]: And maybe he'll admit that some of it's true.
1:02:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe he'll still deny it that it's vehemently and that it's false.
1:02:32
[SPEAKER_01]: We'll never know the truth 100%, but I will say that when multiple sources and tie it over 30 sources, when multiple sources are telling you, even if they have an axe to grind, are sharing the same story, and ties hearing the same story from multiple people,
1:02:53
[SPEAKER_01]: That means that story is true, right?
1:02:55
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, you hear the really old social media thing about four people went to party before their final exam and college and they overslept and missed their final exam and they decided to come up with an excuse that they got a flat tire and all this.
1:03:17
[SPEAKER_01]: So all of them have the same story that tells the professor,
1:03:23
[SPEAKER_01]: um you know exactly what's going on and that they had this flat tire and that there was a problem.
1:03:29
[SPEAKER_01]: And the professor gives them decides to give them a makeup.
1:03:33
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if this is true or not.
1:03:34
[SPEAKER_01]: This is an old social media thing.
1:03:35
[SPEAKER_01]: This is like Facebook for like 20 years ago.
1:03:37
[SPEAKER_01]: The professor decides to give them a makeup exam.
1:03:41
[SPEAKER_01]: And 50% of the test is the content that everyone else got.
1:03:47
[SPEAKER_01]: And the other 50% of the test was one question.
1:03:50
[SPEAKER_01]: And it was which tire went flat?
1:03:55
[SPEAKER_01]: And there you go, because now the professor's right to weed out was if everyone says the left front tire, then well, either you did a hell of a job concocting this story or it actually did happen, right?
1:04:08
[SPEAKER_01]: Neither way the professor's gonna give him the benefit of the doubt on that.
1:04:11
[SPEAKER_01]: But if none of them, if they didn't talk about it, this is before they can all send off quick text under the table, if none of them, you know, if they didn't sit there, go crap, we never decided which tire was flat, then they're screwed.
1:04:22
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's what the professor wanted to weed out.
1:04:24
[SPEAKER_01]: So when you have multiple sources telling you the same story with the same facts,
1:04:32
[SPEAKER_01]: It's probably not fabricated.
1:04:33
[SPEAKER_01]: I think if if there were fabricated stories that Ty doesn't was listening to, he would have said that it's saying, well, that's not true because this coach said this, this coach said this and this coach said this and that's not matching up.
1:04:44
[SPEAKER_01]: That's why I asked Ty about the Thomas Brown thing.
1:04:47
[SPEAKER_01]: And Ty sat there and said, no, that wasn't from Ryan Pauls.
1:04:50
[SPEAKER_01]: That's how the coaches decided they were going to handle.
1:04:52
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, maybe it was because of how Ryan Pauls had handled everything with Caleb Williams previously.
1:04:59
[SPEAKER_01]: And that was their expectation that that's how they should do it.
1:05:02
[SPEAKER_01]: But Thomas Brown comes in and goes, that's how I'm going to do it.
1:05:04
[SPEAKER_01]: And Ryan Pauls didn't stop him.
1:05:06
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think that's the issue here is you've got so much information and so much content that it does leave some some some some gray area and some room for interpretation.
1:05:17
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's why I wanted to have tie done on.
1:05:20
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe having tie done on legitimize this piece for you.
1:05:24
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe you still have questions.
1:05:25
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe you didn't change your opinion at all, but I do appreciate if you did listen to it.
1:05:30
[SPEAKER_01]: And you did want to hear what Ty done had to say, I will say, thank you for at least being objective enough to give this piece the time of day to maybe consider it if it was true or not.
1:05:41
[SPEAKER_01]: Because look, the bottom line here is,
1:05:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Dan Weeder had his piece of November about Ryan Pulse, right?
1:05:48
[SPEAKER_01]: About how he just wanted Chase Claypool, how he wanted Nate Davis, and he didn't listen to the noise that was around him.
1:05:55
[SPEAKER_01]: That was that his own staff of a former Tennessee Titans coach that was with Nate Davis was then on the bare staff.
1:06:05
[SPEAKER_01]: and the coaching staff said do not sign Nate Davis and Ryan Poles did it anyway.
1:06:10
[SPEAKER_01]: So when we have that information from Dan Weeder a totally different reporter that's kind of telling you hey Ryan Poles is dismissive of people on his staff and he's going to do what he wants to do.
1:06:22
[SPEAKER_01]: And then you hear that Ryan Poles cooked the books for Caleb Williams that Ryan Poles wanted to draft Caleb Williams and if you weren't on board with his plan, then you were basically going to get laughed out of the room and he had a lot of anonymous sources that to confirm that now he did have one source who's now at the commanders, but the source went on the record and basically said, hey, I said, we should draft Jane Daniels and now he's part of the organization that has Jane Daniels.
1:06:48
[SPEAKER_01]: So in terms of that, like, of course, he'll go on record and say, hey, I said they should draft J and Daniels.
1:06:53
[SPEAKER_01]: They didn't listen to me.
1:06:54
[SPEAKER_01]: Now I'm with the commanders and we have J and Daniels and they don't.
1:06:56
[SPEAKER_01]: Like that, that's something you can get on record.
1:06:59
[SPEAKER_01]: But coaches who now are with different NFL teams are not going to go on record and give their names and tell Ty Dunn yet, print it and put my name next to it.
1:07:12
[SPEAKER_01]: They will no longer be employed by an NFL team if they do that.
1:07:16
[SPEAKER_01]: period end of story so the people that want sources with names are anonymous sources don't count yes they do now this is different than Adam shepter but Adam shepter you don't get mad at Adam shepter Adam shepter doesn't come out and report the Chicago bearers sign you know Drew Dalman and you sit there and go well who's the name of the source I want to know the name you don't care because you like that you're like oh I need a center Drew Dalman great
1:07:42
[SPEAKER_01]: That doesn't bother you.
1:07:44
[SPEAKER_01]: When he comes out and says, Justin Fields is gonna get a second round pick with when the bear's trade him.
1:07:50
[SPEAKER_01]: And he's wrong.
1:07:51
[SPEAKER_01]: That doesn't bother you.
1:07:52
[SPEAKER_01]: Now if he had come out and said, John, now think about this.
1:07:56
[SPEAKER_01]: We go back to before Justin Fields is traded.
1:07:58
[SPEAKER_01]: And if Adam Shefters going on shows in February and said, the NFL thinks Justin Fields stinks.
1:08:06
[SPEAKER_01]: He's only gonna get a six round pick at best.
1:08:09
[SPEAKER_01]: You know what would have happened?
1:08:10
[SPEAKER_01]: You all would have freaked out and said, Adam, chef, there's wrong.
1:08:13
[SPEAKER_01]: Just some fields is awesome.
1:08:15
[SPEAKER_01]: So there is definitely something about what is being reported and whether you want a source's name behind it.
1:08:22
[SPEAKER_01]: So I get that everyone wants a name by a source, but it's just not gonna happen.
1:08:27
[SPEAKER_01]: You can't get sources in the NFL and put people on record.
1:08:31
[SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't happen.
1:08:31
[SPEAKER_01]: Look at all these pieces across the league.
1:08:34
[SPEAKER_01]: It almost never has a named source unless they're talking about it at a press conference.
1:08:40
[SPEAKER_01]: That's just not how this works.
1:08:43
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't have a problem with the anonymous sourcing.
1:08:46
[SPEAKER_01]: I do think there is a bit of a slanted angle here because it's 95% of it is coming from the coaches.
1:08:54
[SPEAKER_01]: And I do think that there is some should be some hesitancy about doing this dyslexia part of the story.
1:09:02
[SPEAKER_01]: And I get it that it's a big part of the story.
1:09:05
[SPEAKER_01]: And if Ryan polls knew about it and didn't tell the coaches and the coaches floundered,
1:09:11
[SPEAKER_01]: coaching Caleb Williams because they didn't know how to connect with him at an academic level in terms of teaching him the offense and how to operate in at the NFL level.
1:09:20
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a huge failure from Ryan Polls.
1:09:23
[SPEAKER_01]: That's his biggest failure yet.
1:09:26
[SPEAKER_01]: So I get trying to report that, but at the same time, this is something that Caleb Williams has tried to keep private clearly if it's real, clearly for 23, 24 years.
1:09:37
[SPEAKER_01]: He is not, you know, all right, not he wasn't too and trying to hide it, but you know what I mean?
1:09:41
[SPEAKER_01]: The last 15 years, this is not something that he has wanted.
1:09:45
[SPEAKER_01]: anyone in the public to know, he has tried to keep this private.
1:09:48
[SPEAKER_01]: Again, I'm saying, if it's true, if it's not true, then a lot of coaches and, you know, ties going off of his sources are way in the wrong.
1:09:58
[SPEAKER_01]: But if it is true,
1:10:00
[SPEAKER_01]: This is something that Caleb Williams has not wanted public and now Ty done has made a public and look that's something that journalists have to decide to do that's not something that someone like me should do because like I said I just spent opinions into a microphone and you guys like them or hate them and that's that's what I do so things are very different here so that's why I wanted to have Ty done on I wanted him to explain his piece explain the pot process explain the background explain how he got from point A to point B. I hope you guys found it interesting.
1:10:29
[SPEAKER_01]: Make sure you check out the other podcast from Bears Manchers out there.
1:10:32
[SPEAKER_01]: And of course, all the other podcasts on second city gridiron as we march through this Bears 2025 season.
1:10:40
[SPEAKER_01]: We will talk to you again soon, bear it down everybody, and Adios.