Latest / Sass & Small TALK / The Invisible Load of: FIGHTING FOR THE FAMILY YOU DREAMED OF WHILE CHASING YOUR DREAMS

Transcript

The Invisible Load of: FIGHTING FOR THE FAMILY YOU DREAMED OF WHILE CHASING YOUR DREAMS · Sass & Small TALK

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_06: Somebody claimed to be the birth father and contested the adoption.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_06: And we proceeded to fight for six months while every day terrified that somebody was gonna take our child from us.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_06: It was the single worst time of my life.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_06: Like we had our Carnegie Hall debut singing.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_06: My first time at Carnegie Hall, I was holding him in the dressing room and listening to it and just being with my six-month-old baby after several DNA tests and thousands and thousands of dollars.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_06: John was a hundred percent ours forever and it was like it's over.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_06: This nightmare is over.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_06: The greatest thing that could have ever happened.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_06: And the doctor said to him, How do you feel about your daddy?
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_06: And he goes, Wonderful, because he found me and I found them.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_06: And the first day that John called me dad.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_06: There's not a word for me that's charged with more love than that.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_06: I didn't know that that was an option for me in my life.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_06: Based on so many circumstances.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_06: Because we're two white guys without a uterus.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_06: With a black child.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_06: I didn't notice it.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_02: I noticed nothing.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_06: I don't see uterus.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_03: That's a whole other show.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_01: If you're doing it all from meltdown to task and still fighting to keep up that Sass friend, I got you.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, I'm Deb, host of Sassin's Small Talk, the mental load of parenthood, season two.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_03: As a mom of two smollies, navigating life with a neurodivergent family, and my own neurospicy brain, caregiving for aging parents, and trying to hold it all together with grace.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_03: I know what it means to carry the mental, emotional, and invisible load of parenting.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_03: But here's the thing: we weren't meant to do this alone.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_03: This season, we're exploring the many phases of parenthood, from single parents to co-parents, blended families to chosen families, and everything in between.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_03: Right here in our beautiful city of Victoria, BC, and beyond.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_03: They're sharing real stories of overwhelm, grief, imposter syndrome, breaking generational cycles with the resilience it takes to keep showing up.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_03: Real parents, real families, real stories.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: Because it takes a village to raise a child and a community to raise their parent.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_03: Welcome to Sass and Smalltalk, the mental load of parenthood in all its messy, beautiful forms.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_03: Today, we are going to go into the big city.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_03: And I can't wait to introduce you to the next guest.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_03: Touring across the U.S.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_03: and Canada, Giuseppe and his husband raised their 11-year-old son and his beloved bearded dragon, Quisson, in the beautiful community of Sunnyside, New York.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_03: A vocal instructor, choir director, and devoted parent, Giuseppe's proudest accomplishments aren't just on stage.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_03: They're in the quiet moments of raising a kind, empathetic, joyful child while still sharing his gifts with the world.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_03: This is Giuseppe.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_03: Hello, my friend.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_06: Hello, Deb.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_06: Oh my gosh.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_06: It's so great to see you.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_03: I just feel so honored that you are willing to do this.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_03: And this wasn't easy.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_06: What an incredible ride.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_06: And to think we came from Dalhousie to this moment.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_03: We have to start this up by saying that there's some history here.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_03: And so much.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_03: So much history.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_03: We walked together to school.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_03: We were kindergarteners, Saint Dominic.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_03: We were just these little incy wincy people.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, you were a little bit taller than me, but I was I was about half, I was about half your size, and uh we just walked together and you were just a dream.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_03: I just loved being your friend always, but it didn't end there, did it?
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_06: Nope.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_03: I have to say, we were meant to be in each other's lives somehow, right?
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_03: At different phases.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_06: There's no question because we were no matter what happened afterwards, the best platonic male-female relationship that ever existed.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_06: I'm not gonna lie.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_06: Like we I understood you because we both had immigrant parents.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_06: Yep, we both lived in the same neighborhood.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_06: There was the same value system, there was the same fear of over-protective.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, we had the overprotective parents.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_06: We're both Catholic.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_06: Like there were so many things that I was like, she's my girl.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_06: And I need her.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_06: And I didn't even know.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_06: I think it was a subconscious needing of you.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_03: I 100% feel this too, because we both kind of entered the world, not really entered, you were always kind of in it.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_03: We'll get into that with the idea of art being central in your life, right?
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_03: Being uh in music being part of your life.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_03: I kind of entered it.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_03: It was part of my life as a pianist, but somehow we ended up in the same musical theater classes and we were in the same productions.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_03: You were always lead role.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_06: How dare you!
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_03: That's not true.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, sometimes all the time.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_03: We're like, we won't even bother check, but we all know that Giuseppe's gonna be like guy.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_03: But I was always somehow just a little bit close to you.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_03: There was just a I always felt like I was near you somehow.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_03: You were my safety zone.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_06: I gotta tell you, you were my uh that really is that really actually makes me feel so good to think about that.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_03: It's true.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_03: I always saw the back of your head.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_03: I really did, but I mean, I was right by you.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_03: I was always by you.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_03: It was an honor to be able to serve in that capacity, in that we were both on stage and we danced and we sung.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_03: But there was one time that we played even field.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_03: That was we were me too.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_03: Us dancing together, us young ball roomers.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_03: How do we do that?
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_06: And we did it, we were still in junior high school.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_06: We were, and we did it at a high school, we were at St.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_06: Francis.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_06: Yes, can't remember what the event was, but it was like come and perform at uh your future high school.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_03: That's what it was, some sort of thing.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, and it was wild, yeah, and I remember, and this is gonna sound so self-involved.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_06: I remember the screaming and the cheers and the like it was so successful, it was so successful.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_06: Like I mean in my mind, I was like, I think we have a touring career with this show.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_06: Like it's gonna it was quite and you were so small, and I felt so strong that I could throw you around.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_06: I was like, I'm clearly also very gifted with throwing with the people.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, come on.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_03: I flipped over your your head, your back.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_03: It was wild, and what I loved about this was that I just felt so at ease with you.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_03: I was like, like I said, I was half I was half the size.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_03: We're gonna be showing this footage.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_03: And I you took the lead at all times.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm gonna tell you something.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_03: Giuseppe, down there in our world in Calgary.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_03: You know, of course, I already introduced you as our New York guest, but you are from Calgary.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_03: Or, or no, wait, are we from Calgary?
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_03: Did you were you born there?
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, no, I was born there.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you were born there.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_03: So we went to school there, and uh I just always felt at home and at peace with you.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_03: I felt protected.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know what it was, but every single girl had a crush on you at school.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_03: We were like, we all love Joe.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_03: But for me, and I called him Joe just so we are clear that I know he was.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_06: Now that everybody knows if we go with Joe, it's it's acceptable.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_06: Same guy.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_03: Same guy.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_03: But you were just everyone wanted to be your partner, either on stage in musical theater, as an actress.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_03: We just all wanted to be next to you.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_03: You were just such pure talent.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_06: That is a really, really kind, thoughtful thing to say because it it makes somebody feel good to know that people want to be around you.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_06: Oh, yeah.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_06: The irony that everybody wanted to be my girlfriend is hilarious at this point.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_06: But that's for a whole nother show.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_03: Hey, come on, that's a whole other show.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_03: It's all good.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_03: It's all good.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_03: It was all part of the journey.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_03: But I do have to mention to our viewers and our listeners this uh series with TELUS and Story Hive, I am um delving into locally reflective stories.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, Victoria is where I'm from, Calgary is where we met, and you now live in New York.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_03: So why do we have Giuseppe Spellotini here?
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_03: Why?
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_03: The reason why is because he's an incredible father, and I had to talk to you to get some pieces of you and your life and what we needed to really know.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_03: Does the big city and the bright lights and the big apple and being a performer, an artist, a creative, does that make a huge difference when it comes to the soul role as a dad and as a parent?
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_06: Absolutely.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_06: To be honest, here's the thing you can have any job the minute hopefully the minute you become a parent, that is your full-time job.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_06: And no matter what job you are passionate about, it supersedes everything and it becomes the thing, which for better or for worse, I'm not gonna say that that's the way everybody should roll.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, but for me, that's that's what happened.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_06: And it's a really, really hard thing to navigate because the traditional roles of people in general and parents evolve all of the time.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_06: Yes.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_06: So we had a you know a very different route in getting a child.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_06: And I don't know if we can start with that.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_03: That's how I want to start with you.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_03: I want to know how parenthood started for you.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_06: I had my first date with my current, I shouldn't say my current husband.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_06: I hope that he's the last one.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_04: Anyway, sorry, Jesse, we love you.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_04: Oh my gosh, I love you.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_06: Anyway.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_06: So my first date with my first husband.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_06: Um we met uh wildly out, like, and then we had our first date at dinner, and I had said three things which I think were really kind of nervy at the time, and I said, I just need you to know these three things.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_06: I am never leaving New York, I want a family, and I'm never having a pet.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_03: Wait, but Poisson, what's happening here?
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_06: Croissant doesn't count because croissant's in a in a glass.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_03: In a glass cage, yeah, yeah.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_06: You know what I'm saying?
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_06: Like, and that took a lot of negotiating.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_06: But I was like, just just know what oh no, there was a fourth, and I'm gonna drink wine every day.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_06: Oh, so anyway, please, you're Italian, let's do this, right?
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_06: Let's get it straight.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_06: Like let's not be confused about these things.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_06: But he also, like that very first day, was like, I I want a family, which you never talk about on a first date.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_03: Wow.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_06: So it really made us feel good about okay, we should have a second one, you know, date.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, I was like, we're already at the second one, we haven't even had the first one yet.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, second date.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_06: At this point, like we're like, there's no second job.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_06: Um, so we so we dated, dated, dated, and then uh life took its course and we got engaged and we got married, and it was really special.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_06: We did it here in New York.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_06: It was before it was legal to have a like an actual marriage license, but we were so blessed that our the pastor at my church married us at this wonderful restaurant in Hell's Kitchen, and it was amazing.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_06: We had this great turn of fate where Jesse was at the dermatologist for some reason and talking to him about children, he said, Today's your lucky day.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_06: I am friends with Rosie O'Donnell's adoption attorney.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_06: That's hilarious because that's never gonna happen.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_06: Like, you know what I mean?
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_06: Like, yeah, you can say like all kinds of funny things.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_03: Second day.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, it was actually so this guy's dad was the trailblazer for gay adoption.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_06: We met with him.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_06: We had this incredible meeting, and Jesse and I were like, I think we're gonna do this.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_06: This would be amazing.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_06: So we waited a year, and sure enough, we used this wonderful, wonderful man.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_06: And then the the applications, not the applications, that sounds weird.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_06: Like the the request started coming in for people that were needing parents for their birth children.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_06: It was so overwhelming, but so amazing.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_06: But it was also very scary because we would get a call from somebody who was not well and in jail and on methadone.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_06: Oh my.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_06: So you're like, how do I willingly like how do I know that I can take care of a child that needs all of this extra care in advance?
• 13:12
  unknown: Yeah.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_06: Do you know what I'm saying?
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_06: There were so many complicated, but then every time you you say, I I can't take this on, you're like, was that my chance?
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_06: Like, was that my window?
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_06: Turned out we won the lottery because you sure did.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_06: I was heading to work one day.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_06: No, sorry, I'm gonna rewind a little bit.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_06: We had met online this mother, John's birth mother, and Jesse was able to go out to meet her.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_06: He actually met her.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_06: Oh, okay.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, yeah.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_06: No, and I did too afterwards, but first he met her.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_06: Okay, so he went, she had a daughter who was not yet one.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_06: Okay, this was in November, but I couldn't go because I was working.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_06: So Jesse went, met her.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_06: They had a wonderful time.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_06: He came back, and there's a weird when you're dealing with adoption here, it's very uh tricky because you have to have a burner phone because you cannot tell them your full name or anything until everything's done.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_06: Because unless it's like an open adoption, which we were hoping for, but if it is, that happens afterwards.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, but in the meantime, because there are so many strict laws about what you can give and how you can help them, and because they nobody wants you to buy a baby, right?
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_06: So it becomes it becomes a very tricky thing.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_06: This was all too many rules for me as uh like a Canadian who just wanted a baby.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_03: I just wanted the baby, like why do we sell it?
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, I didn't like any of it, but you gotta you but if you break the law, you don't get a baby, exactly.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_06: So we had to do what we had to do.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_06: We were back, Jesse came back.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_06: He wasn't doing it until January.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_06: He was four weeks early.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_06: But Jesse had left his burner phone at work, and John was born in the middle of the night.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_03: Oh my gosh.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_06: And she kept trying to call him.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_06: No, but Jesse was getting to work, and I was at the time commuting to Connecticut for work.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, you were out of town?
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_06: Or you were like, the reverse community.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_06: Like I was on the Metro North train going, like most people come this way.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_04: I was like, You go the other way.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_06: Okay, so and I sleep on the train because I had to be up there, it was so early.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_06: So I get to school and they're like, get out.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_06: Jesse already called, you have a baby.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_06: So we both flew to Indianapolis.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_06: Oh my gosh.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_06: And she was having a hard time.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_06: They were kind of aggressive about like, okay, sign this, do this, do that.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_06: And she was like, What on earth?
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_06: In any event, we stayed with John for, I mean, we stayed in Indianapolis for a week.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_06: He was in the hospital.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_06: We were back and forth from the hospital to the hotel.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_03: Because he's in NICU, he's in NICU at this point.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_06: He's in NICU, okay.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_06: But like it's such a healthy NICU.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_06: Like it was a I I can't imagine saying this, but what a blessed NICU it was.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_06: Because for him, he was working on Suckswall or Breathe.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_06: Like, we saw so many kids in way worse conditions, and then we were just praying every day because we were there for 10 hours a day, every day.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_06: And in fact, we're still in touch with the family that was next to us.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_06: Oh, they have a little boy that's John's age, and like and the nurses.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_06: The last time we were in New Orleans, we visited her because she was there visiting her son, and now she lives there.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_06: And the NICU people changed my life.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's a whole other set of heroes right there.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_06: I mean, you have to be the most special person to work in that word.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_03: 100%.
• 16:38
  unknown: Yeah.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_03: So with what you have to see, the kind of heart you have to have.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_03: No, no, this is part of your team here.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_03: To have your baby, you had to go through NICU.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_03: And it was unbelievable.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_06: Oh my god.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_06: So we did we did that, and then this is gonna be a funny story because it's no longer illegal.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_03: When when we we like we like legal stories, but let's go by the legal too.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_06: Okay.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_06: So John was ready to be dismissed or released from the NECU, and then we were ready to take him home, but there were papers that needed to be filed within Indianapolis and New York.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_01: Oh gosh.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_06: And we hadn't been giving me clearance from New York yet, and we were at the airport because we were getting on that plane.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_06: We were like, sorry, but I'm like done with all of this nonsense.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, yeah.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_02: No more paperwork.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_06: Our lawyer, our lawyer called us.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_06: He was like, Good news, you guys are cleared to come home.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_06: And then you were like, We're boarding flight 42.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_06: Like, it was hilarious.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_06: And so we pretended, like, he's like, What's that?
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_03: We're like, nothing.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_03: It was a show, it was a show, it's a travel show.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_03: Oh my gosh, you're hilarious! Oh my gosh.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_06: It was really funny.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_06: But anyway, so he there he is, like eight days old, and he's on his first flight ever.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_03: And it was amazing.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_03: With his ex-con uh father who who went at Grant's little the law-breaking fathers.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_03: I love it.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_06: You know what?
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_03: Sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_06: And I won this time.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_06: You know what I mean?
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_03: Well, no, hey, listen, technically, you didn't get him on the plane until you got the call, you got the clearance before you got off.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_06: It was totally clear.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_06: There you go.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_06: We were planning to break the law, but we didn't have to.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_06: So that's why we didn't.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_03: There you go.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_03: All smelled that hits.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_03: It got as good.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, there you go.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_03: You got some divinity right there.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_03: I love that story.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_03: I'm so glad you can look back and laugh.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, it was hilarious.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_06: It's funny.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_06: We're like changing a dirty diaper, going, no, great.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_03: What are you talking about?
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_03: What's that no?
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_03: I'm just laughing because the desperation to just end it so you can just be a family.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, well, how can that be wrong?
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_03: It's a beautiful thing.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_03: Did you finally admit to your lawyer?
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_03: No.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_03: Did you tell your lawyer uh later, like uh someone?
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_06: There ended up being so much drama afterwards that we never even got the chance to celebrate that with him.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_06: But that's a whole nother chapter in the world.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_03: And I I think what I love about your telling the honest truth of your experience, and we don't have to get into those details.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_03: It's just the fact that all the mental, because this show is about the mental load of parenting.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_03: And that's actually why I wanted to talk to you because the idea of an adoption story, the the truth behind it, you know, it's not what we see on TV.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, you have to you got to squeeze that all into an hour program.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_03: At this point, we're we're trying to figure out are you gonna see your son in two months, one month, five months?
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_03: Like what's gonna happen here, right?
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_06: We so if I may, so that's the magical part of the story.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_06: So we'd never been happier as a family.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_06: We got all the way through Christmas to have a new baby at Christmas.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_06: I mean, yeah, yeah, right?
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_06: Like everything was perfect, perfect, perfect.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_06: There are 30 days to contest an adoption.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_06: And on the 30th day, while my mom was here, no, the somebody claimed to be the birth father and contested the adoption.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_06: And we proceeded to fight for six months and have a lawyer on retainer in Indianapolis while every day terrified that somebody was gonna take our child from us.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_06: It was the single worst time of my life, like of all of our lives.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_06: I mean, not John's, because thank God I don't think he's he doesn't know it, yeah.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, but I just hope he didn't feel it because babies are so in tune.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_06: So we tried, we tried so hard, like and in that time, not to make us seem like more victimized, but Jesse was laid off the February of that same year.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_06: So everything had gone completely south.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_06: Oh goodness.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_06: But the thing is, Jesse was a rock at the time.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_06: He he said, Nobody's taking this child, and I know it.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_06: And I know that's that's my truth.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_06: I had the worst uh anxiety and was trying to keep down like my crazy work schedule.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_03: Oh gosh, so there's that to you.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_06: Other children while I was afraid of my own all the time.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_06: But the scariest part was my mom, long before I was born, had lost a child.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_06: So I had an older brother who was three, and he had passed before I was born, and his name was Joe.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_06: So I got his name.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_06: But that that trauma, just from growing up with a parent who had lost a child and her and being terrified every day of her life, spilled into my trauma and my anxiety about having my own child.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_06: So it became that's why those those six months became so incredibly difficult because I couldn't see to the other side.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_06: And even after that, so we we found out.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_06: In June of that year, that after several DNA tests and thousands and thousands of dollars of try.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_06: Yes.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_06: Um, that the guy was not.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_06: Oh my god.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_06: And so John was 100% ours forever.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_06: And thank God.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_06: And in fact, like I always say that his birth was the best day, but that actually might have like they they fight each other for the best day of their life.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_03: They go head to head.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, June 15th of 2013 might have been.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_06: It's like it's really close.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_06: Because I'll never forget.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_06: We were in Tucson, Arizona, and and my husband was with his mom getting chemo.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_06: They were sitting together.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_06: I had John with me in the hotel room.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_06: We were visiting them.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_06: And I remember falling apart.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_06: Did you just collapse?
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_06: Oh, I collapsed.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_06: Like it was like it's over.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_06: This nightmare is over.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_06: It was the greatest, it was the greatest thing that could have ever happened.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_06: So yeah, sorry.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_06: I just I feel like I killed you.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_03: That was insane.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_03: That was just like what a beautiful moment.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_06: It was so much, but it never went away.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_06: Like I and I'm not giving up the fact like the it was the greatest gift, and I'm so happy, but I never stopped being an anxiety parent.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_06: So every time I had to leave, like to travel or to do a gig or to do whatever, I was terrified.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_06: Oh, is it okay if he comes in the photo for a quick second?
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_06: Could he please?
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_06: He allows John.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_06: Come.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_06: I'm on the oh my god.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_06: He they he just walked.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_03: This is our miracle right here.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_03: Oh my sweet boy.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_03: Hi my John, you are just beautiful.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_03: What a gift you are.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm I'm learning so much about you.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_03: And of course, you made me cry.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_03: You just made me cry right now.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_03: Just being you.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_03: Oh my goodness.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_03: I am so I'm honored to know this story.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_03: And you're look at this.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_03: This is why, this is why I'm doing what I'm doing because I want to see how these beautiful families are come to be like this.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_03: Is how you came to be, and look at you two.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_03: This is incredible.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_06: He's the most perfect guy.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_06: He sure is.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, he's so cute.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_03: When I see you, I'm gonna give you the biggest dog story.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_03: It's gonna be getting awkward.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_03: We gotta get awkward.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_06: Maybe we'll visit you.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_06: We'll come visit you.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_03: Come to Victoria.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_03: Oh my gosh.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_06: It was like, can I come in?
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_06: I was like, of course.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_03: I adore him so much.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_03: This is the thing, is like to be to see this full circle, to see him, you know, years later as a he's a preteen.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_03: Would you call him a preteen at this point?
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, he's 11.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_03: And like to know the beginnings of of having him in your life when when he found you, when you found him, yeah, it makes it just so much more special.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_03: And I I gotta say, I don't have a similar story, but there are some similarities in that it was not easy, it was not the straight and narrow path here.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_03: And and on top of it, there's this deep gratitude.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_03: You cannot explain it.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_03: You just live it.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_03: But then, but then do you ever have those days where it's hard and you're like, but I have to be grateful because it was so hard to get here.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_04: You know that kind of thing?
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_06: Oh my god, 100%.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_06: So we had a so rewinding a little bit, we were at a doctor's appointment one time.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_06: He was probably three, I'm gonna say.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_06: And the doctor said to him, This was the like the most sweet day of my life, how do you feel about your daddy?
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_06: And he goes, Wonderful, because he found me and I found them.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_06: And she cried, I cried, everybody cried.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_06: It was like uh because the when you do what what's called conspicuous adoption in our because we're two white guys without a uterus with a black child.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_06: I know it sounds ridiculous.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_06: I didn't notice it.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_02: I noticed nothing.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_06: You notice nothing.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_06: I mean, I don't see uterine, but like that's a whole other show.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_03: That's a whole other show, Joe.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_06: Oh my god.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_06: You know what I'm saying?
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_06: Like, yeah, so we had to do this whole thing called conspicuous subject.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_06: We're like, we don't need to learn about this because no one's gonna suggest that this wasn't conspicuous.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, right, right, right, right, right.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_06: That'd be crazy.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_06: Um, but anyway, they so he's known from birth that we chose him and he chose us, and that this was all a wonderful divine miracle, really.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_06: Yes, for us, anyway.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_06: Like whatever you want, but for us, that is our story.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_06: Um, it's amazing.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_06: But then you forget you're still a normal parent.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_03: Or human.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, human, yeah, period.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_06: I shouldn't say normal, a human parent who is like, I want to kill you.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_06: Or like, you know what I'm saying?
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_04: Like, why are you talking back?
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_04: What did I get myself into?
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I I get it, I feel it.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_06: And I don't know if you've ever experienced this because my parents were not so gracious when I was complaining about parenting.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_06: Because they're like, really?
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_06: You forget, you forgot what you were like?
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_06: I was like, that's not when I'm looking for support and I'm having a hard time, that's not what I need to hear.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_03: This is not helping, mom.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_03: Don't tell the truth.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_06: Not rude.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_03: You're like, I was an angel.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_03: What are you talking?
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_03: Ask Deb.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_03: You know, the entire school would completely beg to differ.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_03: You were in the world.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_06: It would beg to differ, but she's like, oh, Joe, Joe, Joe, don't get me started.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_03: I was like, are you kidding, Aurora?
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_03: You better stop.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_03: Oh my gosh.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, so you turn to your you turn to your family of origin and you're like, okay, I was not this kind of, I was so perfect.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_03: I was this blah, blah, blah, blah.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_03: And then they're like, we beg to differ.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_03: What situations would make you kind of like, I need my support.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_03: What's going on?
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_03: How do I deal with my kid acting this certain way or saying a certain thing?
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_06: So we were, I mean, he was such, he was such a good baby, like really, really good.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, yeah.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_06: Then he had an opinion.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_04: That he spoke.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, that he spoke.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_06: And I was like, sir, on what planet?
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_06: Not just spoke, but like disagreed.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_03: How dare you?
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_06: Maybe that was chapter four of the book that I did not read.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_03: But stop skipping chapters, Joe.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_06: How are you there?
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_06: That's not a thing.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_06: So and then he would get into tantrum phase, which I was like, oh yeah.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_06: What is this?
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_06: So is this?
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_06: No, we went with the I went with the sit on the inside of the bedroom door and shut the lights so that he can escape with my back towards the door.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_06: Occasionally it meant casualties on my face or body.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_06: You know what I mean?
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_06: It was like, I'm coming anyway, but I was like, no, you can't.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_06: Because I knew if I just closed the door on the outside, oh yeah, it would just be smashing or it's hard.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_06: It was hard, but I mean, only now as the parent of an 11-year-old, yeah, do I acknowledge, and I'm not even a hippie parent, do I acknowledge big feelings?
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_06: I'm like, okay, I get it.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_06: I get it.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_06: You're not processing well.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_06: And don't get me wrong, you can't be a jerk.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_06: Like, that's never gonna be okay.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_06: So I'm glad we made that clear.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_06: But I also wasn't the most open to his big feelings.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_03: At that point, back then.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_06: At that point, and that was a come to Jesus for me because I was like, Yeah, dude, you've had big feelings, you still have big feelings.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_06: You definitely have big feelings.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_06: Sometimes people need to be patient with you, you know what I'm saying?
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_06: So, but that was a that was a journey and it was a learning curve.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_06: And today, even because you know, the saying, like, little kids, little problems, big kids, big problems.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_06: Well, they become more difficult.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_03: So they're just gonna get bigger and bigger, and and the fact that you can accept this.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_03: Is what I love about the honesty and evolution of parenthood, is that we are allowed to make mistakes.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_03: You gave yourself grace and you're learning as you go, we're just always learning, like in the different phases, right?
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm glad you were able to turn to your family of origin.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_03: You didn't really get the answer you wanted because you forgot the fact that you weren't always an angel or something, right?
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_03: But I think that's the humbling feature of it is that you know, hey, you turned out great, right?
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_03: We have our anxieties of like if he doesn't do this or does this now, blah, blah, blah.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_03: How about if this affects their growing years, you know, and that that part that's part of the anxiety, right?
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_06: Yes, and why is it like the panic that the trajectory of bad behavior means you're failing as a parent, or they suck, or like none of that's true.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_02: No, no, not at all.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_06: You can be a great parent that's not killing it, yeah, whose child is not thriving at that moment.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_06: And they will, and you will, yeah, but every parent needs to give themselves and every other parent grace because it's not easy.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_03: I want to kind of go back to giving ourselves grace because as a creative, as a performer, let's not forget you had a very, very vibrant life before becoming a parent, and you had to make a conscious shift in your career.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_03: So, could we talk about that real quick?
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_03: Because those are some of the major decisions that a person of your career choice, right?
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_06: No, absolutely.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_06: And it was so I started uh with this group that we had created called O Sole Trio before John was born, and then Jesse and I realized we were in contention for adoption, which was great, and then we did, just as O Sole Trio was starting to become a thing.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_03: O Sole Trio selling out shows, come on.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_03: It was you did great.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_00: It was a great.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_03: So we're not talking just as a light decision here.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_03: If you made any future decisions, we'll go, we'll get there.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_03: You're telling me the story, but I want to make sure that this is not your everyday little you know, gig.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_03: This was your passion to this.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_06: We manifested it, and when we were in the throes of John's, we didn't know yet about this whole issue with the potential paternal father who's contesting.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_06: We had our Carnegie Hall debut.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_03: Oh gosh, oh my gosh.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_06: I remember singing my first and only time at Carnegie Hall in this wonderful show, and then John was there with Jesse, and then in the second half, which I wasn't part of, I was holding him in the dressing room and listening to it and just being with my six-month-old baby.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_06: Because it was in June, and it was right before we found out, but we did not know yet.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_06: So that was such a special time.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_06: So then we we got some traction after that, and things were going really well, and we toured and whatever, but there was a time when John was like, I'm gonna say two and a half years old, where I was gone for three and a half weeks, and it was horrible.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_06: Oh god, because don't get me wrong, like touring's fun.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_06: I love performing such a highlight.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_06: But then I would come home because I still teach, so I had to make up all those lessons, I had to try to get all those people back.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_06: And then not only was I away, I came back and spent less time with my family than I would have the first time because I was doing more work.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_06: Right.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_03: Makeup work, yeah, makeup, yeah.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, so we got to the point where it was like this is too much, and then the the ensemble itself just kind of started to dissolve interpersonally.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_06: Okay, so the timing was there, it was starting to like make sense to and it worked out the most brilliant way because we ended up um splitting right before the pandemic.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_06: Okay, and we could not have had any work at that time, yeah.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_06: And we didn't, so the silver lining though, right?
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_06: Silver lining, yes, yes, and I wished them well, and it was a great run, and I don't regret a minute of it.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, and it really gave me my performance chops like yeah, there were hundreds of shows at that point, you know what I mean?
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_06: And it felt great, but it was not like it's not something now that I would leave my family for.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_03: And this is the crossroads, this is the crossroads, but you knew your answer.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_03: You're like, I'm I'm I'm gonna choose my family right now.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_03: I've I'm ready.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_06: I feel like I'm still performance-wise in my prime, and I love teaching so much.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, yes.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_06: My studios are huge, like I probably I don't even know between the two schools and my private studio.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_06: There's you know, I teach several hours a week, but I don't want to stop the performance aspect.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, and now I'm I'm open because John's a little older, and I won't be touring or whatever, but I'm ready.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_06: Like I'm ready to just get back out there and maybe fulfill that part of my life, I guess.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly, because it does, it is about the seasons.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_03: And the season when he needed you most was when he was little, and you were navigating the pandemic as well.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_03: You're navigating.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_03: Um I'm I'm assuming homeschool was not an easy time just because you also perform and you did this, but you weren't performing at that time.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you weren't performing at that time, but there must have been some stuff that you had to kind of deal with, maybe to make up.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_03: Talk to me.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_06: I had a I had a green screen behind my piano so that nobody, the students wouldn't see me as my family was walking to the kitchen.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_06: My husband was working in our bedroom, and John was doing homeschooling in his bedroom.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_03: So oh, you still continue to teach, but digitally, got you.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, thank God.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_03: Thank God.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_03: I was gonna ask you that.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, okay.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_06: All the schools let me continue to do that.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_06: Awesome.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_06: And in fact, the weird blessing of the pandemic was that I ended up with students that I wouldn't have normally taught, but they were in Scotland or in California or wherever, and they were like, Well, now that this is a thing, can I study with you again?
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, that opens up that moment of time.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_06: Yes, yeah.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_06: So I actually have, I'm gonna say four students still on Zoom that some of them are local.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_06: It's just easier.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_06: They're like, because I figured it out, I know how to do it, it's super easy.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, hey, we wouldn't be here right now if we didn't have this option.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_06: Let's be serious.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_03: Let's be real.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_03: This is a blessing that came out of that whole mystery of a time.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_03: And I am grateful for that.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm glad that affected your business and expanded, you know, opened a new door for you, which is great.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_03: And so then you can, you know, carry that into your family because that all comes back to family too, because this is your income.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_03: This is your joy and a happy dad, a happy family as well, right?
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_03: So this all comes together.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm just so happy that's what happened.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_03: It would be very easy to get depressed after leaving, walking away from something this huge, right?
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_03: Old Solitrio and like selling out shows and performances, and then right away you closed down.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_03: And that wasn't a family-based thing, that was a world thing, that was a global thing.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_03: And New York is a whole other experience.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_06: It felt like I was in jail at home because I was trying to teach voice lessons and keeping everybody kind of quiet so that I could do these things.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, I remember that was a time where my mom was killer amazing because I called her and I was despondent.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_06: And I was like, I can't do this, I don't know how.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_06: And I'm so blessed.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_06: Like, I have another parent in my house and one child only, but I was so tired and so sad and so much, so worried about the future, like thinking, how do we get because I think he was in first or second grade at the time, so it was really early.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_06: How do you get him to just sit in front of a screen?
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_06: Oh, and she was amazing and so helpful in saying, Listen, there have been like terrible times in every part of history, and you're gonna be okay.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, because when you think about it, like the pandemic sucked for sure.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_06: I didn't live through a war.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_06: I haven't had to figure out how to forage for food.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, I I have to sometimes have perspective about how incredibly, no matter how hard it was, how blessed I am to have been given every one of these gifts.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_05: You know?
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_06: We struggle, we all struggle.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_06: Do we struggle the way they did?
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_06: No.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_03: There's no comparison, but I I I love that you can see that perspective because there are some real stories, the the stories that our parents share with us or grandparents, you know.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_03: I'm so glad we don't have to really understand it.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_03: You know, like I mean, firsthand, we are really blessed, but when we're in the crux of anxiety, and I mean, I I love though that you are saying that your anxiety was so debilitating that you had to call your mom.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_03: We it it still needs to be addressed.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_03: That mental health and the overwhelm was still it hit you hard because it it actually hit so many families hard too.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_03: And we didn't know how to navigate not knowing what was gonna happen in the future.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_03: And yeah, so I I love that you can see perspective, but also be vulnerable, you know?
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_06: Right.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_06: You can you can validate your feelings because they're real and they suck sometimes, yeah, or they're great, and let's let's let's lean into it for sure.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, because it doesn't always have to be the end of the world for you to have a feeling 100% because otherwise we would be despondent all the time.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_06: So, like, like let's let's let's deal with everything as we go, but let's also have perspective because also it's I would love to think that our parents were the last people that went through that.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_06: People are going through it all the time, right?
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_06: There are there are immigrants and countries and people that are suffering beyond anything I can even imagine at this point, which make my problem seem trivial.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_06: And I have to bear in mind that they're not trivial.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_06: Like they're that's what I'm feeling, and that's what I'm going through that day.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_06: But that is otherworldly.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_06: Like that is a different problem.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I have to stop you for a second though, Giuseppe, because what you went through wondering if you were gonna lose your son.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_03: Right, that's something many, many people don't understand.
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_06: No, that was the that was again that was another time, right?
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_03: But you too, yeah.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_06: But that that makes me think I'm gonna be okay.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, because you you survived that.
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_06: Because I had the worst thing that could ever be.
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_06: You know what I mean?
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_06: Like and it's uh I can't believe it makes me smile now, but it does.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_03: So you know, because you you come out really like just resilient when you have.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not saying that parents who have it easy and they're like babies just kind of popping out of their, you know, the nuclear family.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not saying they have it easy or anything like that.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_03: Definitely not downplaying, but I do have to say, when you have struggle starting your family, it's a different level, it's like a next level kind of thing.
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_03: It's we belong to a club of like I've I've shared with you and I've shared um openly that we lost, uh, we lost, you know, 10, 10, 10 children, even bad babies, and four of them were were quite developed in the second trimester.
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_03: So we know the other side.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_03: I wish we didn't, but we know the other side.
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_03: So the amount of grace that we can kind of give ourselves, right?
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_03: The amount of grace we can give ourselves when we have hard moments, like it's just incredible how gratitude and compassion comes out of something so traumatic.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_03: And I think part of the reason why you have perspective, being able to say, well, you know, my parents went through all this and my the my predecessors went through all of this.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_03: I could take a step back and have perspective because you, yeah, you know the other end, you know hard, hard times too.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_03: And I yeah, what great perspective.
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_03: It's a blessing to have hardships when you go to the other side and go, oh, I survived that.
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_06: And it it it creates a kind of empathy that you wouldn't have otherwise.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_06: Because I thought my mom was nuts.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_06: She would have a bad dream, and suddenly we weren't out, we weren't allowed to go outside that day.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_06: Oh, yeah.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_06: I didn't realize that she was wrestling these demons of like fear.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_06: Because her her son was three and a half when he died.
• 42:50
  unknown: Right?
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_03: Like that I cannot imagine.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_06: I cannot, and I never want to by a car accident, not even uh like so that but also acknowledging the fact that that's where that kind of fear and trauma comes from.
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_06: That took me a long time.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_06: I had no idea I had anxiety because we didn't know what that was.
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_06: It's not something you deal with, especially in Italian families.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_06: You're like, what is Engazai?
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_06: Filipino It's a choice, right?
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_03: Like, oh no, Philip, yeah, in our community too.
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_03: It's really hard to convince our, you know, our elderly, you know, it's really hard to convince them.
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_03: It's a real thing.
• 43:27
  SPEAKER_03: It's there's something there.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, like they don't believe in mental health.
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_06: I'm like, what is wrong with you?
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_06: But that's me also being not very empathetic.
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_06: I'm like, you're fools.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_06: You know what I mean?
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_04: But you give them grace too.
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_04: You give them grace too.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_04: I can see it, yeah.
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_06: But I've told my mom a thousand times based on like all of the trauma that she and my dad have been through.
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_06: I was like, have you thought about theorem?
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_06: I don't need to.
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_06: I'm like, okay.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_04: I love every parent.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_06: I just love them.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_06: I used to use her voice.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_06: Did I tell you as when I called in at St.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_06: Francis?
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_06: As her too.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_03: Come on.
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_03: No.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_03: You are you are just scandalous.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_03: All kinds of scandalous.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_06: Are you ready?
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_06: I'm gonna do my impression for you.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, go.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_03: Uh can we?
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_03: Hello, hello.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_00: Hello, uh, St.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_00: Francis.
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_00: Hello, this is Mrs.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_00: Fallatini.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_00: I'm very sorry, but John Feeling too good today.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_00: I remember this.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_03: Why do I remind it?
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_03: No, you just you just struck a core memory because I remember Mama Spellatini.
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_03: I love you because first of all, she made the best sandwiches, the best sandwiches Joe always had.
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_03: The best bunches.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, well, we were all like this.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, incredible.
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_03: I always just vibed for your for your life, your sandwiches.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_03: But I remember you doing this at school.
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_03: You would do like you did not care that you could be overheard doing your impressions.
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_03: I remember this.
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_03: I just remember the voice, not so much that you did it, but I remember the voice.
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_03: And now I love that you just bring it to life.
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_03: Now, what what would you do?
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_03: What would you do if you found out John was doing this?
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_06: Oh, these the things that I do not tolerate from my child or my students that I did.
• 45:25
  SPEAKER_06: I hope none of them see this.
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_06: I'm like, on what planet do you think that is a permissible way to behave?
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_06: Like my indignance is wild.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_06: You would think I was a nun from the old school.
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_06: I forgot.
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_06: And that's why my mom does has no sympathy when I tell her about my friends.
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_06: You know what I mean?
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_03: Oh no, my dad reminds me, like, oh, this is Bayback.
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_03: This is Bayback.
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_03: I like he and he always says, one day you're gonna have a girl and you're gonna experience this.
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, what are you talking about?
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_03: I'm an angel.
• 45:59
  SPEAKER_03: And then I'm I'm I'm I am exactly like you, and I do hear, I hear those voices, and then I hear it just like seeping out of my mouth too.
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, but now let me ask you this.
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_03: I know that creeps up, right?
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_03: Like those old because we this isn't deeply ingrained.
• 46:15
  SPEAKER_03: So have you have you turned some stuff around?
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_03: Are you also a cycle breaker as well?
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_03: Like on top of cycle meaning, well, I I'm learning from that that this is not one I want to implement.
• 46:25
  SPEAKER_03: Has it come down into your parenthood that kind of almost word for word, the tones and stuff like that?
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, or has it switched?
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_06: I'm gonna say yes, because everybody's like uh on a learning curve as a parent.
• 46:35
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 46:35
  SPEAKER_06: And I gotta say, my parents kind of killed it in so many ways.
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_06: Because they were so supportive.
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_06: Yes, they were strict and crazy and wild.
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_06: They sure made us feel loved and supported.
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_06: So did they always like understand the nuances of what people were feeling?
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_06: No, because they were kind of just trying to survive.
• 47:01
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 47:01
  SPEAKER_03: They were working with what they got.
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_06: Well, they were working with what they got, and they had like language barriers and they had so many other things.
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_06: But I am hoping to instill the same sort of value system in.
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, yeah.
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_06: And the love and support, because there's thank God they're both still here, and they're so crazy about him.
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_06: Because he's the baby baby.
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_06: If you think about we're an unconventional family already, but I'm the youngest in my family, and my siblings all had kids when most people did.
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 47:33
  SPEAKER_06: So all of John's cousins are in their upper 20s.
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so he's the baby of babies.
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 47:39
  SPEAKER_03: No, me too, we do, yeah.
• 47:42
  SPEAKER_06: So, what I don't want to do is create a an expectation of these are the markers that you need to hit in your life as immigrants.
• 47:51
  SPEAKER_06: They were like, you should be doing this by this, you should be married by this, you should have a house by this, you should be whatever.
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_06: Even to this day, they're like, Does Sophia have a boyfriend yet?
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_06: Is this person dating?
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_06: Like, what's happening?
• 48:02
  SPEAKER_06: You know what I mean?
• 48:02
  SPEAKER_06: Not in a mean way, but it's just like that's where I really pull back and go, like, okay, I can't have John have these same crazy markers.
• 48:12
  SPEAKER_06: Also, in New York, it's so crazy competitive.
• 48:15
  SPEAKER_06: Okay.
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_06: I work at all these really high-performing schools where kids are doing 9,000 things at the highest level.
• 48:25
  SPEAKER_06: They're doing tennis, squash, and violin and singing, and whatever.
• 48:30
  SPEAKER_06: And I have to pull back and say, I gotta let John just do the things he's interested in right now.
• 48:36
  SPEAKER_06: But at the same time, not let him quit everything that isn't driving at that moment.
• 48:40
  SPEAKER_03: It's such a balance.
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_06: It is hard.
• 48:43
  SPEAKER_06: It's really hard.
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_03: And I want to give a little kudos to the fact that we're Gen Xers that got to really get a taste of that old school mentality and now the modern day mentality.
• 48:55
  SPEAKER_03: We have had a taste of all of it.
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_03: Same with millennials as well.
• 48:59
  SPEAKER_03: The gift that we have is choice.
• 49:01
  SPEAKER_03: So we can a la carte pick some of the old value systems that made us who we are.
• 49:07
  SPEAKER_03: I think the reason why you're such a big feeler is because your family was rooted in love, hands down, through the food, the cooking, through the through the curiosity, asking questions.
• 49:19
  SPEAKER_03: Are you gonna get married?
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_03: So it's all coming from love.
• 49:22
  SPEAKER_03: And in this modern day, like, shh, don't ask this question, don't do this and that.
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_06: We have to it's almost it's like oppressive, but like it's it's extreme opposite.
• 49:32
  SPEAKER_03: So we're kind of in the middle.
• 49:33
  SPEAKER_06: Both kind and also offensive.
• 49:35
  SPEAKER_06: Offensive, yeah.
• 49:37
  SPEAKER_06: In every way, right?
• 49:39
  SPEAKER_06: You can have good intentions in the old way and you can have good intentions in a new way and still be offensive.
• 49:44
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, like you've gotta be really careful.
• 49:48
  SPEAKER_06: But you're right, you're right.
• 49:49
  SPEAKER_06: We kind of you're right.
• 49:50
  SPEAKER_06: Gen X kind of killed it.
• 49:51
  SPEAKER_06: Sorry.
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_03: We have a different mindset that and I I love that you're my finale.
• 49:56
  SPEAKER_03: You're my season finale because actually you are.
• 50:01
  SPEAKER_06: I could not be more flattered.
• 50:03
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, this was intentional.
• 50:05
  SPEAKER_06: I'm obsessed with you.
• 50:06
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, I'm obsessed with you.
• 50:07
  SPEAKER_03: And the reason why I wanted you on here is because, well, A, you're hilarious and I love you.
• 50:13
  SPEAKER_03: B, I miss the pants off you.
• 50:15
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, let's not say that.
• 50:18
  SPEAKER_06: Oh my god, I keep that.
• 50:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, right and slip.
• 50:21
  SPEAKER_03: No, but seriously, like I miss you so much because you bring an energy that is so contagious.
• 50:28
  SPEAKER_03: But more importantly, I do see we are more alike than we ever knew.
• 50:33
  SPEAKER_03: Like, like when we were dance partners, we were so opposite and so much alike.
• 50:36
  SPEAKER_03: And that's actually why we fine-tune this dance.
• 50:38
  SPEAKER_03: And I love how we can kind of close talking about how we met, we met on this, like in our neighborhood, humble neighborhood, not humble, in this in this like family-centered, you know, neighborhood.
• 50:49
  SPEAKER_03: We go to school together, we perform, we get a taste of the bright lights, right?
• 50:53
  SPEAKER_03: We love performing.
• 50:55
  SPEAKER_03: We both love the stage and doing having the lights shine on us, right?
• 50:59
  SPEAKER_03: And then we made a choice to be parents.
• 51:01
  SPEAKER_03: And then with parenting came all these struggles.
• 51:06
  SPEAKER_03: It was not easy.
• 51:07
  SPEAKER_03: So there's that kind of alignment.
• 51:09
  SPEAKER_03: And I did not plan for this, actually.
• 51:11
  SPEAKER_03: I didn't realize how much there were parallels.
• 51:13
  SPEAKER_03: Two very similar cultures and and backgrounds and value systems that we still uphold and respect and regard in our heart.
• 51:22
  SPEAKER_03: And yet, we cool, we are on a digital call, right?
• 51:26
  SPEAKER_03: We're dig call making a podcast on a TV show that is gonna be air.
• 51:31
  SPEAKER_06: New countries.
• 51:32
  SPEAKER_03: Come on, right?
• 51:34
  SPEAKER_06: Let's go.
• 51:34
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, let's go.
• 51:35
  SPEAKER_03: And then we're able to find our way back full circle and embrace parenting as parents of teenagers and preteens.
• 51:46
  SPEAKER_03: And not easy, new phase, but um, we're we're ready to get back on there.
• 51:51
  SPEAKER_03: That's what I love.
• 51:52
  SPEAKER_03: You you just finished telling me that, yeah, I let it go for that season.
• 51:55
  SPEAKER_03: Now I'm ready to go back.
• 51:56
  SPEAKER_03: I think it's time.
• 51:57
  SPEAKER_03: I can do some stuff now.
• 51:59
  SPEAKER_03: And so I'm so glad that we were able to find where we're so much alike, different cities, different family setups, um, right, but all so much the same.
• 52:10
  SPEAKER_03: So much of the same.
• 52:11
  SPEAKER_03: So much of the same.
• 52:12
  SPEAKER_06: Deb, you know that my grandparents lived with us our whole lives.
• 52:17
  unknown: Gosh.
• 52:18
  SPEAKER_06: On Dalhart Road.
• 52:19
  SPEAKER_06: Yes.
• 52:19
  SPEAKER_06: Our entire lives.
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_06: And my grandfather, my son got to see him.
• 52:24
  SPEAKER_06: John was three when my maybe a little older.
• 52:26
  SPEAKER_06: So he had a great grandfather, like in my parents' house still.
• 52:30
  SPEAKER_06: So you also have that that feeling of like that family, that extended family that lives with you forever.
• 52:37
  SPEAKER_06: We I don't know a life without grandparents in my house.
• 52:41
  SPEAKER_06: I didn't realize you didn't know because my no, because we had that weirdly big house in Dalhousie.
• 52:46
  SPEAKER_06: You did.
• 52:47
  SPEAKER_06: It was it was a beautiful sense.
• 52:48
  SPEAKER_06: It's like some drug dealer built it because it was weird, but also so beautiful.
• 52:54
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you, drug dealer.
• 52:55
  SPEAKER_03: Oh my gosh, that's so funny.
• 52:58
  SPEAKER_06: It was a beautiful home, but weird.
• 52:59
  SPEAKER_06: Anyway, but we had these four giant bedrooms upstairs, and my grandparents were in one of them, and my grandmother would always be the one in the window, like waiting till we came home.
• 53:08
  SPEAKER_06: She took me in every night.
• 53:10
  SPEAKER_06: She was incredible.
• 53:11
  SPEAKER_06: So I just know that that's what you're experiencing.
• 53:14
  SPEAKER_06: And it was it was the wonderful, wonderful part of my life.
• 53:19
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, I'm so glad to hear this coming from you.
• 53:22
  SPEAKER_03: I and and here you are appreciating it in your new well, it's not really your new life, but the life that you chose being in New York, big city, and you don't have this.
• 53:31
  SPEAKER_03: I'm assuming in New York, you're not gonna have the same kind of huge, giant house like we did in Dalhousie, same with me.
• 53:37
  SPEAKER_03: No, it's a different lifestyle in BC.
• 53:39
  SPEAKER_03: No, right?
• 53:40
  SPEAKER_03: So I I know uh that the fact that you can really appreciate it and and remind me that it's a gift because I have a lot of guilt.
• 53:49
  SPEAKER_03: I have a lot of guilt.
• 53:50
  SPEAKER_03: And and to be able to say some of my core memories are knowing that my grandparents were in my house, I can let go of that guilt.
• 53:56
  SPEAKER_03: I'm so glad uh just love me.
• 54:00
  SPEAKER_06: Yes, yes, I love you.
• 54:02
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, I'm gonna I'm gonna ask you.
• 54:05
  SPEAKER_03: Um if you could bottle up one moment, and I think you've already answered that question, but there might be more.
• 54:20
  SPEAKER_03: What would that be?
• 54:23
  SPEAKER_06: I would say the first day that John called me dad.
• 54:33
  SPEAKER_06: Because there's not a word for me that's charged with more love than that.
• 54:41
  SPEAKER_06: And um it's gonna make me a little bit emotional because I didn't know that that was an option for me in my life based on so many circumstances.
• 54:51
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 54:52
  SPEAKER_06: So then when I when he was little, you know, it was daddy, now it's dead.
• 54:56
  SPEAKER_06: Like, so when he when he decided he was too cool for daddy, it's dad now.
• 55:00
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 55:01
  SPEAKER_06: But all of those times, every time I heard that, like I started calling myself that.
• 55:10
  SPEAKER_06: You know what I mean?
• 55:11
  SPEAKER_06: In my mind, I was like, okay, daddy, you gotta do this.
• 55:13
  SPEAKER_06: Okay, daddy, let's get like so.
• 55:16
  SPEAKER_06: That was my that was my like alter ego.
• 55:19
  SPEAKER_06: Like, even in my own brain, I would call myself that.
• 55:21
  SPEAKER_06: But because it brought me a sense of comfort and security and self.
• 55:27
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 55:28
  SPEAKER_06: So it would that's there's not a single moment, but like it's just that feeling of when I hear that word from his mouth, uh, I feel like everything's okay.
• 55:40
  SPEAKER_03: Oh boy, wow.
• 55:42
  SPEAKER_03: And we take it for granted the fact that you shared that, yeah, uh on so many levels.
• 55:48
  SPEAKER_03: You weren't sure if this was an option, and it sure is.
• 55:52
  SPEAKER_06: Right?
• 55:53
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it sure is.
• 55:55
  SPEAKER_06: The sadness of it maybe not being ever come to fruition was a real thing for us.
• 56:00
  SPEAKER_06: Of course, of course, and and this is not disparaging to any other child, but yeah, of course.
• 56:06
  SPEAKER_06: He got the best one for us.
• 56:07
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, he did.
• 56:08
  SPEAKER_06: You know what I'm saying?
• 56:08
  SPEAKER_06: Like, he literally was the megamillion lottery child.
• 56:15
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
• 56:16
  SPEAKER_06: Can't be more grateful than that.
• 56:18
  SPEAKER_03: I am so humbled by this conversation, and I can't think of another way to end this beautiful season of this very amazing opportunity of having a platform called Sassin Small Talk because I never really knew what I was getting myself into when I signed up for this.
• 56:40
  SPEAKER_03: I just realized I wanted to hear stories.
• 56:42
  SPEAKER_03: I wanted to get something out of you guys.
• 56:45
  SPEAKER_03: I had these amazing guests, and I just have to name my guests because it is my last show for the season.
• 56:51
  SPEAKER_03: We have Jen, Carly, Catherine, Nikki, Paulina, Nina, Rowena, and finally Giuseppe.
• 56:58
  SPEAKER_03: Um, you have given me, and of course, my first season has given me so much more than just stories.
• 57:05
  SPEAKER_03: You've given me life lessons and you've opened like your new resources for me as well.
• 57:10
  SPEAKER_03: I'm gonna just take pieces, bits and pieces of what I learned from you, the gratitude, the perspective, the patience, knowing that I'm not alone when I have frustrating moments, especially with you sharing that, hey, I had a really hard time.
• 57:26
  SPEAKER_03: It was not an easy journey to get this child, to bring this child home.
• 57:30
  SPEAKER_03: And yet, I still have hard moments.
• 57:33
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not always running around in the sunset, nope, screaming from the rooftops that it's so easy and wonderful to be a parent.
• 57:40
  SPEAKER_03: It's not.
• 57:41
  SPEAKER_06: Nope.
• 57:42
  SPEAKER_06: No.
• 57:43
  SPEAKER_03: We give ourselves permission to, you know, but I I kept having guilt about it.
• 57:47
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, how dare I feel this way when, you know, it was so hard to, I should be so grateful.
• 57:51
  SPEAKER_03: Blessing, blessing, blessing.
• 57:52
  SPEAKER_03: In the middle of a meltdown, it's not easy to feel that way.
• 57:55
  SPEAKER_03: So I appreciate you.
• 57:57
  SPEAKER_03: And you are a gift.
• 57:58
  SPEAKER_03: You just poured into my cup, but I think into a community of people here in Victoria and all over the world once this gets online.
• 58:09
  SPEAKER_03: Because what's gonna happen is that people are gonna see the reality and the hardship and the joy of, like you said, a non-conventional way of having your family and raising your family.
• 58:20
  SPEAKER_03: And yet, you were raised in what they would call the traditional way, the way that so many of us can relate to, and uh and you're able to marry the two.
• 58:29
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, how awesome is that?
• 58:31
  SPEAKER_06: It is such a blessing, but also don't sell yourself short about what you're giving us.
• 58:36
  SPEAKER_06: You by creating this platform and by speaking truth about all of these really difficult parts of parenting, you are such a gift, and I could not be more grateful that you're back in my life.
• 58:49
  SPEAKER_06: And I won't let you go.
• 58:50
  SPEAKER_06: Okay.
• 58:51
  SPEAKER_06: Just letting you know.
• 58:51
  SPEAKER_06: Okay, you're this is what's happening.
• 58:53
  SPEAKER_03: I I got the full you can't see it.
• 58:55
  SPEAKER_03: The hairs on my arms are do you remember me having hairy arms?
• 58:57
  SPEAKER_03: I used to hate my hairy arms.
• 58:59
  SPEAKER_03: They're all up.
• 59:01
  SPEAKER_06: I just love you so much.
• 59:05
  SPEAKER_03: There was a reason why we were um meant to cross paths again online.
• 59:09
  SPEAKER_03: I I do hope to see you in person because it's gonna be a real big, awkward hug.
• 59:13
  SPEAKER_03: We might be great.
• 59:15
  SPEAKER_03: We're gonna have to start dancing again, though, just for old time's sake.
• 59:17
  SPEAKER_06: There'll be some tears and some flips.
• 59:19
  SPEAKER_06: It'll be great.
• 59:21
  SPEAKER_03: Joe, I I just love you.
• 59:23
  SPEAKER_03: I adore you, I appreciate you.
• 59:24
  SPEAKER_03: I learned so much from you.
• 59:26
  SPEAKER_03: I do want to thank you for coming on the show.
• 59:29
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you for gracing us with your presence, your truth.
• 59:31
  SPEAKER_03: And I also want to take this opportunity to thank my wonderful community of parents, parents of all shapes and sizes and stories that are here to listen, to take what they can take and get what they can get and bring it home and know that you are not alone.
• 59:51
  SPEAKER_03: You are seen and you are heard.
• 59:54
  SPEAKER_03: We are all one wonderful community, one village, and we all can just appreciate that.
• 59:58
  SPEAKER_03: I want to take this opportunity to thank House of Owl, the production uh magic makers, that and my production staff and my post-production staff who have just brought this to life.
• 1:00:11
  SPEAKER_03: I am forever grateful to you guys because you make us look good.
• 1:00:16
  SPEAKER_03: You look good.
• 1:00:17
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I am grateful to all of all of you.
• 1:00:21
  SPEAKER_03: I feel so incredibly blessed, nourished, and complete and held in this wonderful space because it takes a village to raise a child and a community to raise their parent.
• 1:00:32
  SPEAKER_03: I'll see you when I see you, because this is the season finale of Sass and Small Talk, the mental load of parenthood.
• 1:00:41
  SPEAKER_03: Bye for now.