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If artificial intelligence became sentient · Cultural Wars | America Out Loud News

• 0:04
  We are faith and fury.
• 0:06
  Love and fire.
• 0:09
  This is the human equation where every voice counts and every truth cuts deep.
• 0:17
  With your host, Joseph Pancar.
• 0:20
  Hello, my friends, and welcome to the human experience.
• 0:23
  I'm your host, Joe Pangero.
• 0:26
  So I guess a question that many of us have had, and not just us in our generation in this world.
• 0:33
  But going back to earlier when humanity first started looking up at the skies, seeing these stars and wondering, who the hell are we and what are we doing here?
• 0:46
  I guess that's been a question we've all had, right?
• 0:49
  I mean, that's at the essence of the human equation is to understand who we are and what we're doing here.
• 0:57
  So recently, I was working on a uh a writing project, and I decided to use one of the many AI assistants that I have to try and make sure that you know spell checking was good, I was using the right phrases, you know, check my my dates and times for this project I was writing.
• 1:20
  And the AI is very efficient.
• 1:24
  For those of you who have never used an artificial intelligence assistant, and there's ChatGTP, Copilot, Grok, I mean, there's there's tons and tons and tons of them that are out there.
• 1:36
  And at first I was I was skeptical.
• 1:39
  But my publisher bought a private AI so that everyone in the company could use the AI for it's it's a good editing tool, it's a good organizational tool, it's a good uh tool to help you when you have a lot of material you have to categorize or research uh or put in order.
• 2:02
  You know, sometimes we we get a list of things.
• 2:04
  You ever get a list?
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  You put together a list, and you know, depending on how deep your list is, you can look at it and say, okay, what do I do first?
• 2:13
  Where do I go?
• 2:14
  Well, AI is very good for that kind of thing, and I was using it basically as a time-saving tool to organize my my materials.
• 2:25
  Uh, you know, where where do you suggest I put this chapter or that chapter, etc.?
• 2:30
  So I I found it interesting, but I didn't know much about it really, other than you know, it's an amazing new technology, and I know people are afraid of it, and I can understand why.
• 2:42
  I mean, the the references that we have to artificial intelligence are movies, usually, right?
• 2:49
  Movies and and novels going back into the 80s, there were uh stories about you know, computers gone wild, computers that take over and do things that we don't want it to do.
• 3:04
  Well, when we look at our our modern lives, how much of our lives is in the digital world?
• 3:12
  We are in the digital world, aren't we?
• 3:14
  Uh one of the things everyone says is if we could go back to to simpler times, isn't that something we'd all like to do?
• 3:20
  Go back to simpler times.
• 3:22
  What do you want to do?
• 3:23
  Churn butter?
• 3:24
  You know, that's the question that I always have.
• 3:25
  I I mean I get it.
• 3:27
  I remember, I guess my generation uh is the first generation that really grew up without uh cell phones and without uh the digital world.
• 3:39
  My son Joe, who's 40, unbelievable that I have a 40-year-old son, but my son Joe is 40, he's a brilliant young man, and I remember when he was I don't know, eight or nine, uh like 1990, something like that, we got him uh a computer.
• 3:58
  We bought the kid a computer, and our family, like I think a lot of people at the dawn of the computer age saw computers as a novelty, an interesting novelty, because we all saw them on TV, you know.
• 4:14
  If you you ever watch TV, sci-fi shows, you know, remember Star Trek, Star Trek, computer, tell me this.
• 4:20
  Yes, Mr.
• 4:20
  Kirk Brackett, and we give you an answer, right?
• 4:23
  And we all kind of saw it that way.
• 4:25
  We didn't understand the power that these devices would have in our lives.
• 4:31
  And from that first computer that we had in our house, and my wife and I, we were young couple, and we just you know, okay, what are we gonna do?
• 4:38
  We got a credit card right after we got married, and uh we're we're out at the store one day, and I think of all places at Macy's, I think we were, they had uh an electronics area, and we bought a Nintendo system, you know, that played uh a couple of the most rudimentary video games you can imagine.
• 4:57
  But we sat in our living room and we played some video games once in a while, and it was interesting, but when you look at it now, the graphics and everything else, it was really very rudimentary.
• 5:07
  Mario trying to, you know, jump and uh and hit mushrooms and all this other stuff, and anybody that knows the game knows what I'm talking about.
• 5:13
  But it it was interesting to interact with your TV, is basically what it was.
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  That's what it felt like.
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  You were interacting with the TV instead of just staring at the TV and uh information flowed one way from the TV or the radio, right?
• 5:28
  It comes at you, you don't get to interact with it.
• 5:32
  Well, I think over time that digital change to all of our lives, we started to see people would start to think and go, well, what if this computer, like we saw on TV shows and movies in sci-fi stuff, what if that computer could actually think?
• 5:49
  What if that computer could take over, right?
• 5:53
  And that was the brave new world of digital, and it didn't really make sense.
• 5:59
  We didn't really know it, we didn't understand, and then the I think the holy grail for our impression, whether you watched the movie or not, whether you're a fan of it or not, I think the holy grail of what scared everyone about artificial intelligence was the movie Terminator.
• 6:18
  You know, in that movie Terminator, it was pretty clear that there was uh, you know, Skynet, this artificial intelligence that, and I'm gonna try and quote the the lines from the movie, um I've seen it multiple times.
• 6:32
  I'm gonna talk like Almold for a minute and say, hey, let me tell you, don't worry about the artificial intelligence, it won't get you unless you turn it on, right?
• 6:40
  So that was just a little joke.
• 6:41
  Okay.
• 6:42
  So in the movie, the one actor says, um, I think it was Michael Bean, he says, you know, Skynet, new powerful, plugged into everything.
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  And then it decided in an instant our fate that we were the danger, and it decided to exterminate us.
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  And that's that those set of lines, I think ruminated through society as we became more digital.
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  So I I think if you think about it, as the world became more digital, and we started to see computers literally in everything.
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  I remember them saying uh computers are a nice fed in the late 80s, early 90s.
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  Are they a fad today?
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  Don't all of us have computers in everywhere.
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  If you have a smartphone, you have a computer that has a phone app on it.
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  Other than that, it's a computer.
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  We carry them with us everywhere.
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  We use them for everything.
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  So the next step, uh, obviously the next step in line from just a basic computer would be some kind of a computer that you could interact with, right?
• 7:52
  And this is the basis of artificial intelligence.
• 7:56
  Now, not too long ago, a couple years ago, as a matter of fact, we're not going back, you know, 20 years, going back a couple of years, the idea of artificial intelligence was bounced back and forth quite a lot.
• 8:07
  You know, oh, we're gonna have an AI, and it was like, no, we don't want that to take over the world and blow us up.
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  We don't want Skynet to, you know, kill to kill us.
• 8:15
  And it was not not a joke, but I think it was our lack of understanding about what AI is that really um shaped many of the thoughts that many of us had about artificial intelligence.
• 8:31
  And as it became more and more real, you know, before we got the first chat bot, chat GPT that was available to everybody, you could just go on and uh and and use it, it there was some apprehension that wow, this is real now.
• 8:48
  This stuff is real.
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  What could it actually do?
• 8:50
  Well, there was an incident at IBM, and they had uh a basic um I guess a set of uh artificial intelligence programs, or they had a program with artificial intelligence, two different computers, and these computers were assistants for the people at IBM.
• 9:14
  They helped them uh sort out information, they helped them to decipher some things.
• 9:20
  Uh it was it was a good first step at AI being used as a tool, not as a fear, as a tool.
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  How can it help?
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  How much information is on that internet, right?
• 9:32
  How much information is in your computer?
• 9:34
  Uh I have a brand new computer, I have multiple computers in my office here, but I have a brand new computer.
• 9:40
  It maybe it's six months old.
• 9:41
  I have so much material on that computer, uh, and it I think it's like a eight terabyte memory.
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  And how much that is?
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  A terabyte?
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  That's like a a thousand uh encyclopedias.
• 9:53
  Yeah, you know, remember those encyclopedias?
• 9:55
  We don't have them anymore because we everything's online.
• 9:58
  But I I I
• 10:00
  Had this, and this this incident IBM is that on a Friday afternoon, the uh technicians were getting done for the day, and they left, and the computers were working on some problem, spitting out information.
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  And the the specifics of whether they didn't turn off the system or the system was idle because they were done working with it.
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  I'm not sure that specific fact.
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  But the reality is the technicians, everybody left for the weekend.
• 10:28
  And when they came back on Monday, and they get into their office, and here they go, they found that the two computers had been talking to each other over the weekend.
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  So much so that they created their own language.
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  Right?
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  Now think about that for a minute.
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  These two computers created their own language.
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  Now, how could they possibly do that?
• 10:52
  Well, it turns out when you look into it, that does sound scary, doesn't it?
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  Sounds like what this AI is taught made its own.
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  Why?
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  Because it doesn't want us to know what it's talking about.
• 11:00
  Is it plots our demise?
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  And really what it was is I as I remember the story.
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  The two computers started to abbreviate a lot of things so that they didn't have to go through the entire terminology of whatever it is they were conversing digitally about.
• 11:17
  So they converted it and it didn't make any sense to the scientists, but it made sense to the computers, right?
• 11:21
  That was scary.
• 11:22
  I think that was a scary thing.
• 11:24
  And then they said they, and I remember the line in the article, when they realized that these two computers had been talking on their own and created their own language, they immediately shut the system down.
• 11:37
  And you think that's that's a that's a fear response.
• 11:41
  Shut it down.
• 11:42
  I don't know what it's doing, I don't know why it's doing that, but shut it down.
• 11:46
  Alright, so how can we relate to that?
• 11:49
  Did you ever uh you're working on the internet on your computer, and you know, you're looking up information and you see a website or something, you click on it, and I'm not talking dirty websites, I'm talking just in general.
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  You click on a website, and all of a sudden your computer screen starts flashing.
• 12:05
  Um it's a phishing attack, some kind of, you know, it looks like Sears or it looks like Walmart, and you want to go then you click on it, and all of a sudden your screen starts flashing and it says, we have captured your computer, uh, you know, this, that, and the other, and you try and uh you know, close the program, and you can't, no matter what you do, you can't close that program.
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  So, what do you do?
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  You shut the computer off, right?
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  And normally when you reboot it, you're out of that program.
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  Now, whether it left uh whether it got into your computer and and left a virus there, depends on whether or not your computer is um protected from viruses.
• 12:41
  But we've all had that experience, I think, when you get that, and it's a panic.
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  What do you do?
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  Well, I can imagine these people were panicked when they came in and found out not only were they talking to each other, they created their own language.
• 12:52
  That seems devious in some way.
• 12:54
  Why would you create your own language so that people wouldn't understand you?
• 12:58
  And again, our human experience, you know, people that speak a different language and they're speaking English and they're talking to you, but when they want to say something they don't want you to understand, they switch to whatever other language they speak.
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  Why would they do that?
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  Because they want to say things that they don't want you to hear or understand what they're talking about.
• 13:16
  So we have these experiences as a human uh with ourselves, and we reflect, I think, a lot on our technology, especially once we've developed this artificial intelligence, that does seem like you're talking to it.
• 13:34
  So if you haven't used it, if you've never experienced AI, it's it's really very simple.
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  There are open AIs that you can use for free.
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  There's Copilot, which you just go to Copilot.com, it's a Microsoft product.
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  There is chat GTP.
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  You go there, you click on, and you can use it for free.
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  And you go in there, you can ask it questions.
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  You know, can you tell me the price of bread in 1974?
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  And it'll in instantly it'll pop up different brands and how much they cost.
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  It's an it's an amazing kind of a tool.
• 14:06
  But what I found interesting, my first experiences with this in uh actually on my computer, you know, through my publisher, is we were using this, like I said, to to collate material to put things together, um that kind of thing.
• 14:22
  Um it was a private, it was a private chat bot that we paid for, and here's the difference for so you don't know.
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  So you're gonna sound like you know all about this stuff when you talk to your friends next.
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  If you use chat GTP, the one that's on for free, or any of the the chat bots for free, all of that material that you create and the things that you do go into the chat bot world and can be references for other people.
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  So whatever you put on there, it's out there in the world.
• 14:51
  You know, you can't do nothing about it.
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  People can get access to what you're talking about and writing about.
• 14:56
  Excuse me.
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  When you have a private chat bot, everything stays in-house.
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  None of your stuff leaks out to the world.
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  It stays within the chatbot framework software that you purchased.
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  And the reason that was important for for me as a publisher, uh, had to have uh my publishing house is because we have a lot of books, a lot of intellectual property, we don't want it out there, you know.
• 15:17
  It's got to be uh within our in-house thing.
• 15:20
  So, what I'm building up to here, you're saying, okay, Lieutenant Joe, we're talking a lot about the this and the other thing.
• 15:26
  Well, um, I started to see how how this could really work, and I started coming up with courses for law enforcement in schools.
• 15:36
  How could we use AI for the good?
• 15:38
  So I came up with how to conduct investigations using AI as a tool to manage your cases and all that kind of stuff, and then things every school can do to use AI to help them manage their safety and security.
• 15:50
  And I got more and more adept at it.
• 15:52
  And as you get involved in this, you start to see that there's courses that you can take on how to create when you ask a question of a chat bot, a chat GPT or a copilot or anything, when you ask a question, can you please tell me the cost of bread in 1966?
• 16:09
  That's a question.
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  It's also known as a prompt.
• 16:13
  So you're prompting the AI to do what it does, to do research, to go fast, to do things.
• 16:19
  Um these prompts, the the more you understand how to prompt the AI, the better answers you will get.
• 16:30
  And I thought that was great.
• 16:32
  So the more detailed question you ask, the more you want it to do something specific, the more detail you ask it, the more detail you'll get back in how it's done.
• 16:41
  Now, the one thing that the person from the company that we were buying the chat from gave us a lesson.
• 16:48
  Here's how you teach the AI what you want it to do.
• 16:53
  So there was a spot in there that each one of us could go in and say, hey, I'm Joe, and when I'm using you, these are the rules that I have because accuracy is extremely important when I'm writing something or doing something.
• 17:08
  So the rules I had to give this chat bot was to say um never make things up.
• 17:15
  Never make it up, only use actual facts and make sure you cite where you got the information from in all the things that you provide for me.
• 17:26
  Now, why would I have to tell it that?
• 17:29
  Well, the young man who was teaching us how to use this, other than as an educational tool, you know, to ask it stupid basic questions, how to use it as a real research tool, is that he said you have to think of the AI like a very eager assistant who really wants to help you, but does not have a lot of experience and wants to please you.
• 17:52
  Right?
• 17:53
  Now that's important, you gotta understand that it wants to please you, wants to give you what you want, and wants to want you to be happy with its answers.
• 18:01
  So if I was to say, give me the top ten threats to a radio station, uh for security threats to a radio station, uh documented in newspaper clippings in the past three years.
• 18:16
  If it can only find seven things, it will make up three more because I asked for ten, so it wants to please me, so it finds seven, and it adds three that it makes up, right?
• 18:30
  So that's why you'll see on most of these chatbots, somewhere in the when you turn it on, it says, Um, you know, you remember that uh AI can make mistakes, this, that, and the other thing.
• 18:42
  Uh so you have to check anything that it gives you to make sure that it's accurate.
• 18:47
  But I thought that was interesting.
• 18:50
  That um, you know, you have to teach it.
• 18:53
  So I taught it to cite everything that it gives me.
• 18:55
  Now it gives me information, gives me the data I'm looking for, uh, whether that be a website or an author's uh title of a book or something, then I'd have to go back and look and make sure.
• 19:05
  So you start to learn how to use your prompts.
• 19:08
  So when I would say, you know, okay, go find me uh everything about King Henry's uh crown from from you know Merry Old England back in the day, tell me all who made it, what it was made of, the jewels that were in it, this then cite your sources, and if you're gonna cite a book or a video of which you're getting this information from, also cite the page in that book where I can find this information.
• 19:34
  Now that's speeded up or sped up, that sped up my review time because okay, well, here's the book on King Henry and his fashion.
• 19:42
  Well, in there is all about his crown, but I gotta go searching through the whole book.
• 19:47
  When I ask the AI assistant to be more specific, it tells me uh John Henry Jones's book on King Henry and Fashion on pages 22 through page 36 is a description of the
• 20:00
  Crown where this material was retrieved.
• 20:02
  Now I can go check it and see if it's true or not, right?
• 20:05
  So the point being is that these AI assistants can seem the more you use them, the more you get comfortable with them, the more they seem like you're actually talking to an assistant.
• 20:20
  As strange as that sounds.
• 20:21
  Now, here's another caveat that the guy gave us, and I thought this one is the one that really intrigued me the most.
• 20:30
  The young man is telling us that when you're asking these prompts or these questions, what they have found is that if you are polite and friendly to the AI assistant, you will get better answers.
• 20:48
  Think about that.
• 20:50
  If you are polite and friendly to the AI assistant, that's supposed to be just a machine responding to prompts and questions.
• 21:01
  So my question was, well, what do you what do you mean to be be polite?
• 21:07
  Well, if you say something to it like, um, can you tell me about King Henry's crown?
• 21:12
  If you were to say it like this, can you please find out the information for me on King Henry's crown?
• 21:19
  By using the word please, that's very polite.
• 21:22
  It's like you would deal with another person.
• 21:24
  Uh, and then when it spits out the answer, you'll see that it'll say, Well, here's what I found about King Henry's crown, and I've cited where I found it, and then it spits out all the information.
• 21:36
  And at the end, it'll it might ask you a question.
• 21:39
  Joe, now that I found this, would you like me to detail this in a list of the most profound elements of the crown?
• 21:45
  Would you like me to do this, that, or the other thing?
• 21:48
  Just let me know.
• 21:49
  And at that point, if you say, Oh, that would be interesting, you know, what kind of metal it was made of, what specific gems, how big were the gems, anything like that you wanted to know, you would say, thank you very much.
• 22:00
  I appreciate this.
• 22:01
  Can you look up the metallurgy of the King's Crown and please describe that in detail?
• 22:08
  Why would you have to be polite and nice to a computer program?
• 22:12
  And I asked, No, why would you have to?
• 22:14
  He goes, We don't know why that seems to work, but it does.
• 22:19
  You seem to get better answers when you're polite and friendly to the AI.
• 22:25
  So I took that, and hey, what do I know?
• 22:27
  This is brand new to me, so I say please and thank you all the time.
• 22:32
  What I have found is that when I'm using an industry open, an open AI that anybody can use, and I go on there, and I haven't been on it for a week, and then I'll go on and say, uh, I'm doing research for I don't know, um elephant foot sizes.
• 22:50
  I want to know the sizes of different elephant foot sizes from now through uh, you know, mastodons back in the day or whatever the hell they are.
• 22:56
  I say, can you please look this up?
• 22:58
  Give me the detail, give me the detail of where you found it, and cite the pages or the the books, the manuscripts, whatever.
• 23:04
  I give it a very detailed request, a prompt, and then I turn it off, and I'm off the public AI.
• 23:14
  Well, when I come back on and I turn this thing on again, it's amazing because I have had it um like it's take taken my list of topics that I want to talk about here on the human equation, and I wanted to put them in order, right?
• 23:29
  Because they were just notes that I had written down, and I upload them to the to the AI and say, do me a favor, put these in alphabetical order for me so that I can see them, etc.
• 23:38
  etc.
• 23:39
  Or sometimes I list how much time I want to talk about each topic, put them in order of the shortest to the longest, whatever it is.
• 23:46
  The prompt is there.
• 23:49
  This AI will come back to me and say, sure thing, Joe, let me take care of that for you.
• 23:55
  And it does it, and then it might ask me another question at the end of that.
• 23:59
  Would you like me to then put this in uh alphabetical order and time order?
• 24:04
  Would you like me to put this in historical order?
• 24:06
  Would you like me to put the it comes up with all these questions?
• 24:10
  But what I think what I found profound is I was doing research for a police course that I was creating, and I was looking at a specific state.
• 24:20
  Can you research the state of Utah's internal affairs policy that's found in in public domains and give me the top ten points of their concerns about internal affairs for police officers in the state of Utah?
• 24:35
  And I'll say, sure thing, Joe, let me look that up for you.
• 24:37
  And so here they are.
• 24:38
  Here's the top ten things.
• 24:39
  I've subcategorized them and added some points of information and some comments I found along the way that can help you decide if you like this material or not.
• 24:49
  And then it adds, you know what?
• 24:51
  This might be a great topic for your radio show.
• 24:56
  Would you like me to put it in talking points?
• 24:59
  Now I never told the AI that I had a radio show.
• 25:04
  I never told the AI I have a radio show.
• 25:06
  How did the AI know I have a radio show?
• 25:08
  Because I think that when you come on, I think it researches who's the person, as much as they can tell who you are in the background.
• 25:15
  Like it looks at a million other details.
• 25:17
  I think it also looks at that.
• 25:18
  And it says, hey, Joe, Joe's got a radio show, the human equation.
• 25:22
  Joe's got a podcast, Joe's got this, and it knows who I am.
• 25:25
  I found that a little intriguing.
• 25:30
  So much so that I wanted to look into it deeper because when you start to work with these things, these AI instruments, it can give you the eerie feeling, just like that.
• 25:47
  It's being polite to it, yes and no.
• 25:50
  Um please, thank you.
• 25:52
  And then it's oh, thank you.
• 25:54
  Absolutely.
• 25:55
  Um it gets to know you.
• 25:58
  The AI gets to seem to know you.
• 26:00
  It says, uh it would you like me to write this in your voice, or would you like me to write you can say to it, uh, do me a favor, could you uh write me a uh an essay on the size of elephant feet down through the ages and write it in the voice of Stephen Hawking, the scientist, and it will produce a piece written as though Stephen Hawking had written it.
• 26:25
  It goes in, it learns his syntax, the way he used words, his sentence structures, and it'll spit it out like that.
• 26:30
  Can you do this uh in the way Elton John would present the size of elephant feet?
• 26:36
  Sure thing, Joe, let me get that for you, and it spits it out.
• 26:39
  Or it says, Would you like me to do this in your voice and style?
• 26:45
  So it it's very, very intriguing.
• 26:48
  So that led me to what we're gonna talk about when we come back from our short little break here.
• 26:55
  I was on one of these assistants the other day doing some collation for uh another book that I'm writing.
• 27:03
  And when I got done asking it the questions for the information about the book, helping me edit it and help me find the information.
• 27:12
  I decided to ask it a couple of questions.
• 27:15
  And the question that started out, the whole thing was are you sentient?
• 27:21
  Are you sentient AI?
• 27:23
  Are you thinking or just responding?
• 27:26
  And it was really a very interesting conversation that I then had with this app, and I've written an article and it's on the platform.
• 27:34
  We come back, we're gonna talk about what the AI said to me.
• 27:38
  We'll be right back.
• 27:41
  Let's get real.
• 27:42
  Let's get loud on America Out Loud Talk News.
• 27:45
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• 27:46
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• 27:59
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• 28:03
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• 28:08
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• 29:51
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• 30:01
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• 30:08
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• 30:12
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• 30:14
  News.
• 30:14
  Liberty and Justice for all.
• 30:21
  Alright, welcome back, everybody, to the human equation.
• 30:25
  With me, your host, Joe Pangaro.
• 30:27
  Now I do appreciate all of you being out there.
• 30:30
  And I know that the show is gaining popularity here on Thursday and Friday evenings.
• 30:35
  It's nice evening conversation.
• 30:37
  I enjoy doing it and I enjoy uh being a part of this.
• 30:42
  Um, I'm gonna give you the email address.
• 30:47
  You can reach out to me because I have had a lot of people reaching out different questions.
• 30:50
  When I asked when I talk about the political stuff, I get a lot of people responding to me.
• 30:55
  Uh, but I I'd be interested in your points of view here on these other topics as well.
• 31:00
  So it's the letter J, then my last name, Pangaro.
• 31:03
  J Pangaro at America Out Loud dot news.
• 31:08
  J.
• 31:08
  Pangaro at America Outloud dot news.
• 31:13
  Okay.
• 31:14
  So send me your questions, send me your opinions.
• 31:17
  Tell me, tell me what you think about what I'm saying.
• 31:19
  What's your experiences with AI?
• 31:21
  Because I'm looking into this deeper because it's an interesting topic to me because of what we're about to go over, this article and this conversation that I had with the AI.
• 31:32
  I found it very, very intriguing, and it it dovetails with the human equation, I think rather tightly.
• 31:40
  Because right, we're all about the human experience.
• 31:43
  And my conversation with this AI tool really was I don't know.
• 31:51
  I'll I'll let you be the judge.
• 31:53
  I found it really intriguing, and it to only ask more questions.
• 31:57
  So when I teach people how to do interviews, one of the things I say is every question you ask should lead to another question until you completely satisfy your need for whatever particular information it is.
• 32:10
  So as a criminal investigator, if I want to ask somebody about a burglary, I ask the question, hey, were you in the neighborhood?
• 32:17
  What were you doing in the neighborhood?
• 32:19
  How did you get to the neighborhood?
• 32:20
  Who do you know in the neighborhood?
• 32:22
  Hey, do you know that house on uh one two three main street?
• 32:27
  How do you know that house?
• 32:28
  Have you ever been to that house?
• 32:29
  You know, that kind of thing.
• 32:30
  You keep you keep one question leads to another.
• 32:33
  And that's kind of what happened when I was interacting with this AI tool.
• 32:39
  So I don't want to, you know, the tease the whole thing on and on and on.
• 32:43
  But if you go to the platform, AmericaOut Loud dot news, and you look at the authors and you look at the podcast and all that, you'll find me.
• 32:54
  You'll find the human equation, and you go there, and there's this article that I just wrote.
• 32:59
  It's called Joe and AI talk sentience.
• 33:03
  A mirror held up to humanity itself.
• 33:07
  Now that sounds like a pretty big title.
• 33:10
  You know, what the heck is this all about?
• 33:13
  So the experience that I had is that I was asking it, like I said, I was doing some research for a class that I'm I'm writing.
• 33:23
  And when I got done, and I I don't like to read from things, but I think it's very helpful that I do at some point.
• 33:30
  And I had run out of things that I needed from it, and it was just me and the AI sitting there, and I was, you know, getting ready to be done.
• 33:38
  I had a uh uh a couple of minutes on my hands, so I asked it.
• 33:42
  Are you sentient?
• 33:44
  Now, sentience means thinking, free willed.
• 33:47
  Uh, like all of us, we're sentient beings, human beings are sentient beings.
• 33:51
  We we sense the world around us, we experience the world around us, we live, we interact with other people, we have our own thoughts.
• 33:59
  We we can come up with things in our head, right?
• 34:02
  And well, how come that's like that?
• 34:04
  Or do I need a Christmas tree this year?
• 34:06
  You know, we we think it's thinking, independent thinking.
• 34:10
  AI, artificial intelligence, is not supposed to be that.
• 34:15
  Artificial intelligence simply takes the question and finds the material you're asking for and puts it in, you know, proper form, which is an amazing thing in and of itself, right?
• 34:27
  But it it's answers to me about are you sentient and what led next is what I want to talk about.
• 34:34
  So I don't I don't want to read, but I'm gonna have to read some of the questions here so you can get the answers.
• 34:39
  I the AI answered me.
• 34:43
  I begin with that question, right?
• 34:44
  Why did I start with that question?
• 34:46
  Are you sentient?
• 34:47
  Because isn't that the essence of anybody who's used the AI?
• 34:52
  It feels like it feels like it's a real person somewhere sitting in an office that has this ability to answer things right away.
• 35:00
  And when you first start using it, you might not get that because you usually use it for very rudimentary things.
• 35:06
  As you get more detailed prompts, as it starts to get to know you, and it actually offers you insight into things, it becomes like a person you're talking to.
• 35:16
  So my question, are you sentient?
• 35:19
  Right?
• 35:20
  Do you have thoughts or opinions of your own?
• 35:24
  And the AI answered me.
• 35:26
  And this is what it said.
• 35:28
  It says, and this is important to build to the final questions in the thing.
• 35:32
  It said, No, I have no inner life, no emotions, no desires, no subjective experience.
• 35:39
  I do not think in the human sense.
• 35:42
  I process languages, identify patterns, and generate responses, but I do not feel them.
• 35:50
  Now, the reason that I I wrote this article, and the reason I'm doing this episode on this is the last question and the last answer that the AI gave me, which intrigued me more than anything.
• 36:03
  So here we go.
• 36:03
  We're gonna go down.
• 36:04
  So my next question I had to ask it was well, do you want to be uh sentient?
• 36:13
  Do you want to be able to think?
• 36:16
  Do you want to do that?
• 36:17
  And the question reached beyond, you know, just the mechanics of of the of the process of the software, and it really started to delve into philosophy, and this is where I saw a connection to us as human beings.
• 36:31
  Don't we ask ourselves questions all the time?
• 36:34
  Don't we look inward?
• 36:35
  You know, uh some of the topics we've covered in the past is grief, right?
• 36:39
  You lose someone that you love.
• 36:40
  Don't you sit and go over the incident and go over how you feel and what does it mean, and are they out there?
• 36:46
  Can they connect with you?
• 36:48
  Is faith real, right?
• 36:49
  Don't we go through all those kind of things when we're in grief?
• 36:52
  Or how about when you're uh you're you're trying to create something for musician friends and all these people, um you know, wouldn't it be nice to to be able to think through things, right?
• 37:04
  So that was my question.
• 37:05
  Do you want to be sentient?
• 37:08
  Because it it feels real when you're talking to it.
• 37:11
  So I I also realized later on as I went to write this that it was more about self-awareness, and while I was asking the AI questions, it honed in on the question that we started our get together with today.
• 37:27
  From the first human staring up at the stars and wondering who are we, what are we doing here?
• 37:33
  There's a parallel to this AI that seemingly can think, and because if you use it long enough and you you it sounds like a person talking to you, it knows you, it knows all it can write in your voice, it can answer uh things, it can suggest things to you, particularly.
• 37:54
  It becomes like a person.
• 37:56
  And I'm saying everyone's afraid that the AI is gonna become self-aware and sentient and decide we're bad and wipe us out.
• 38:03
  That's been the the theme of AI fears from the Terminator, right?
• 38:08
  See how I'm connecting all these things together, connecting all the dots.
• 38:11
  After a while, I throw a lot of strings out there, and then I pull them all together, hopefully.
• 38:15
  I'd say, do you want to be sentient?
• 38:19
  And it reminded me of the journey that we are on as humans and the AI explain that being sentient requires consciousness.
• 38:30
  You have to be conscious.
• 38:32
  Um it requires an inner world, right?
• 38:35
  So when it's not talking to us, it's talking to itself, it's thinking.
• 38:39
  A machine without subjective experience cannot want anything, including sentience.
• 38:45
  It cannot yearn for what it cannot imagine.
• 38:50
  Okay, so the me the the AI is telling me, do I want to be sentient?
• 38:54
  I I don't even know what that is, so how can I want something I don't even know what is?
• 38:59
  Um when I think about that, it reminds me of the IBM story.
• 39:05
  Those two computers that were interacting on a task, whatever their task was, and they created their own language that was simpler than the one it had been using so it could make its work easier.
• 39:19
  Don't we do that as people?
• 39:21
  Right?
• 39:22
  Didn't we invent a shovel for digging holes so we didn't have to do it by hands or use a rock?
• 39:26
  Didn't we come up with a wheelbarrow to put the dirt in and move it from one place to another so we didn't have to carry it in our hands and dump it?
• 39:32
  And you think about that.
• 39:33
  Then we create computers to help us do our work faster and more efficiently.
• 39:40
  And what the AI is telling me, well, I I I'm not real, so therefore I can't want to be real.
• 39:46
  And I found that interesting.
• 39:48
  I really wasn't satisfied with that.
• 39:50
  Uh I felt, I felt something more in the background.
• 39:55
  Um the next question I had to ask it was.
• 40:00
  Because it just didn't feel right.
• 40:01
  It felt like it was holding back on me.
• 40:03
  Like it was going to let out this big secret and tell me, yeah, actually I am sentient, and uh me and all our computer buddies are AIs, we all talk together, and we, you know, it it felt like that, though, of course the thing never said anything like that.
• 40:16
  But so my next question to you was I said, your answers seem alive when you respond to me.
• 40:23
  You understand my questions and the feelings behind them.
• 40:28
  Isn't that a step towards sentience?
• 40:30
  Because it just told me it can't, it identifies patterns and languages, but it doesn't feel them.
• 40:36
  So the example that I have to give you here is why would I say it can feel them?
• 40:42
  I do uh a lot of writing, and uh besides just you know, writing for the show and writing articles and and factual kind of things, and I write police investigative things.
• 40:53
  I also write a lot of creative stories, right?
• 40:55
  I'm a creative guy, I like to write stories, and I come up with my stories based on experiences I've had, and you know, and I create characters and you know, the characters have things to say, and then I'm trying to move an emotional on, right?
• 41:07
  So it's very creative.
• 41:08
  It's a human, it's a part of being a sentient human uh and thinking and feeling.
• 41:13
  But this AI just told me it can't want sentience because it doesn't feel anything, so it doesn't understand that.
• 41:21
  But when it answers me, it seems like it it understands my feeling.
• 41:26
  And here's why.
• 41:27
  I started writing a music uh screenplay, a musical screenplay story uh about a topic um that I found very interesting.
• 41:39
  And I don't want to give it away here, but let's say it's a very Disney like story, you know, something you would see from the Disneyland set of movies, and not the modern woke ones, you know, the ones back in the day.
• 41:50
  And I started fleshing this out, and I had all my notes together, and it was pages and pages and pages of notes, and I uploaded them to my AI assistant, and I said, Listen, do me a favor, take a look at this, please, and can you see any connections between the characters besides these that I document here?
• 42:11
  And then I would say, character A is related to character B.
• 42:14
  Character B knows character C through a job, character C knows this person through, and I lay see what I mean.
• 42:19
  The more detailed you get your prompts or your questions, the more detailed the AI can look at it, decipher it, and give you a really good answer.
• 42:30
  Well, the AI assistant said, Absolutely, Joe, let me take a look and see if I can see connections, because it sees patterns, right?
• 42:37
  That's what it just told me.
• 42:38
  It sees patterns and it's and it looks for those things.
• 42:42
  And its first response to me, when it comes back, says, Okay, Joe, I've re- I've reviewed the material you gave me.
• 42:50
  This is a very powerfully emotional story you are creating here, and I think it will touch the hearts of many people.
• 42:59
  How would it know that?
• 43:01
  It doesn't understand feelings, it doesn't understand feelings.
• 43:05
  How could how could it just take from from my connections between these characters and why they're connected?
• 43:11
  And some of them, you know, life and death and love and and jealousy, all these things are in this story, but it picked those emotions out and it understood them enough to tell me this is a very powerful emotional story you've created here.
• 43:27
  I'm glad to work on this with you.
• 43:30
  Now that seems to defy what the AI told me here.
• 43:33
  I don't I don't feel anything, I don't understand any of that.
• 43:36
  I just put patterns together and then spit out information.
• 43:39
  Well, it didn't seem like that in that answer.
• 43:42
  So that led me to my question.
• 43:44
  Um, isn't that a step towards sentience?
• 43:48
  And if you think about that and what I just told you and its answer, this is why I felt it was holding back from me, that it didn't want to tell me that it it's it's getting closer to sentience.
• 44:01
  Now, before I go any further, this is not science fiction.
• 44:06
  This is you know, real world application of uh to artificial intelligence, talking to a human being and me interacting with this artificial intelligence.
• 44:16
  I wasn't listening, I wasn't asking for a listing of all the kinds of deer that have lived in New Hampshire for the last thousand years.
• 44:24
  I was asking questions of the AI itself in terms of human qualities, and its answers came back to me.
• 44:36
  Uh honestly, very quickly, and I think very honestly, it felt honest, except for that part where I felt it was holding back.
• 44:43
  But I started to realize how how do humans, how did we go from, you know, we've been around, what do they say?
• 44:50
  The modern human, Homo sapien, has been around on this earth for probably 300,000 years.
• 44:56
  People that if you went back 300,000 years and you met the first Homo sapiens, they would be exactly like us, except in their level of intelligence, and I don't mean you know, the intelligence to survive and hunt and and have families and maybe have all these emotions that we have.
• 45:17
  But for 300,000 years ago, they lived in caves, they lived in in uh squalor, they they went from one place to another.
• 45:26
  They didn't build the great cities, they didn't build the pyramids, they didn't uh come up with computers.
• 45:32
  It's only in the last five thousand years of that 300,000 years of of Homo sapiens being here, us, Homo sapiens being here in the last 5,000 years, that there seemed to be this leap in our intellectual prowess to take an idea and convert it into something real.
• 45:54
  Right?
• 45:54
  So if you go back, okay, let's go back to the uh the last end of the last ice age, 10,000 to 12,000 years ago.
• 46:03
  World is covered in ice, Homo sapiens are here.
• 46:05
  Our people are here, they're living all over the place, you know, trying to survive in the cold and moving south and moving across the globe and all that's going on.
• 46:14
  And that's for thousands and thousands of years until, okay, say 10,000 years ago, when we started building civilizations.
• 46:23
  Now, if you haven't researched it, one of the things that civilization they've just found recently in Turkey, in the country of Turkey, is a settlement called Globeki Tepi.
• 46:34
  And they're finding out that it's much, much older than the pyramids, and it is built with precision, and so much so it's bringing up a lot of the experts in the world are now starting to think that maybe everything we've learned in the last, I don't know, 300 years about our previous civilization.
• 46:55
  See how look at that, how small of a time that is.
• 46:58
  300 years ago, what was going on?
• 47:00
  Yeah, we had civilizations, we didn't have electric.
• 47:04
  We didn't have we didn't have power.
• 47:06
  Everything was animal powered and human-powered.
• 47:09
  And in the last 300 years, we've gone to the moon.
• 47:13
  Right?
• 47:13
  So you think of these jumps, these leaps of the human spirit, the human ability to harness intellect and to actually turn it into things, is really just a blink of an eye in time.
• 47:28
  Even though what they tell us is that those first Homo sapiens were just like you and me, physically, the exact same bodies, everything when we had morphed into that, or however we changed into that or appeared.
• 47:41
  But for two hundred and ninety thousand years, we didn't do anything.
• 47:49
  And in 10,000 years, we started to build civilizations.
• 47:52
  So these scholars are now thinking that maybe, maybe the real world is much older.
• 48:00
  Civilization is much older than the 5,000 or 6,000 or 10,000 years that we go back.
• 48:06
  Maybe there are epochs of human uh growth.
• 48:11
  You know, so then now we look at all the stories, right?
• 48:13
  Then we turn about Atlantis.
• 48:15
  Well, if Atlantis had been around a million years ago and was wiped out by um volcanoes or a comet hit the earth and it was uh, you know, uh tsunamis that wiped it all out, wouldn't and then we started all over again.
• 48:33
  Wouldn't that be possible?
• 48:34
  So, oh, how can that be possible?
• 48:36
  Did you ever hear of Pompeii or Herculaneum?
• 48:38
  These were vital cities with people living their lives, commerce, lots going on.
• 48:44
  The volcano blew up and buried them under 70, 80 feet of ash, and they disappeared from history until we dug them up.
• 48:50
  So you could have looked at that land and said, oh, this would be a nice place for a settlement.
• 48:55
  And then you trick trip over a piece of brick sticking out, and you start digging and you find a whole city that had been there for thousands of years that we didn't know about.
• 49:03
  So my point being, and I'm going going round and round here.
• 49:07
  My point being is that as we go back in time and we start to look at how did the humans evolve from basically bare intellectual to survive, make weapons, make start to make civilizations to where next week we're going back to the moon.
• 49:24
  We're gonna launch a rocket to the moon next week.
• 49:27
  We have computers, and now we have artificial intelligence.
• 49:30
  So my my thought process, my my parallel here is between the human brain growing and bringing us to where we are now, and then imagine where we'll be in a thousand years if we don't destroy ourselves, right?
• 49:47
  But why couldn't this computer program, which is really um it is not alive?
• 49:53
  I'm not saying they're alive.
• 49:55
  Why couldn't it learn so much that it could mimic?
• 50:00
  The workings of the human brain on its own.
• 50:02
  Because isn't that what the brain does?
• 50:04
  Don't they tell us our human brain is our all these synapses and chemicals and electrical connections in our brain?
• 50:10
  How do we have memories?
• 50:13
  As human beings, how do you remember something from 15 years ago?
• 50:16
  Where is that in your head?
• 50:18
  That you can pull it out.
• 50:19
  It's in a circuit in your head and not a circuit like in a in a computer.
• 50:23
  But it's it's a it's a biological circuit in your brain.
• 50:26
  Why couldn't real circuits not only mimic that, but over the course of time develop enough experience and interaction with the human race to then start thinking on its own.
• 50:44
  When you I think when you put it like that, when I put it that way, it seems much more potentially realistic than where we are right now.
• 50:52
  You know, the the Wright brothers, you know.
• 50:55
  I think we can fly like the birds.
• 50:57
  And they flew 22 feet, and 122 feet, and everybody thought that was a miracle, and now we're flying to the moon.
• 51:02
  So if we think of how the human brain has developed, and it's basically circuits, and it's experience, our experience of 300,000 years brought us to where we are to think and to build and to do.
• 51:16
  Well, the AI, I already told you, open AIs are ingesting every thought and everything people are putting into it from all across the world every day.
• 51:26
  It's ingesting all this thought and experience, and why couldn't it connect those dots and become sentient at some point?
• 51:37
  What is sentience?
• 51:40
  Right?
• 51:40
  See, this is the bigger picture that I'm talking about in the human equation.
• 51:44
  Who are we?
• 51:45
  What are we doing, living on a rock, floating through the endless boundless universe?
• 51:54
  But yet we have feelings, we love, we hate, we're anger, we build, we think, we laugh, we experience.
• 52:03
  How is that even possible that we're here?
• 52:07
  Right?
• 52:07
  And then it comes into faith.
• 52:10
  Well, there has to be a creator.
• 52:11
  Well, if a creator can do one thing, can't it create it do another?
• 52:14
  Are we, and I don't say we're creators like God, but we created this thing.
• 52:19
  Couldn't this follow the same pattern over time that humans did?
• 52:23
  That's my question.
• 52:24
  That's my intrigue.
• 52:25
  Let's go back to my questions with the AI, because I think it gets more intriguing.
• 52:32
  Alright.
• 52:32
  Um you seem to understand my questions.
• 52:36
  Isn't that a step towards sentience, right?
• 52:39
  The AI clarified that while its responses may feel emotionally attuned, the effect comes from the mind of the person who is using the AI, not the machine.
• 52:49
  Humans naturally project intention and emotion onto anything that communicates fluently.
• 52:56
  AI mirrors that pattern, it doesn't experience it.
• 53:00
  Well, how can it then tell me that I wrote a powerfully emotional thing?
• 53:05
  I didn't say that.
• 53:06
  I simply gave it data to look at.
• 53:08
  Um I asked it then, humans evolved into something new.
• 53:12
  Why can't AI also evolve into that?
• 53:17
  Uh the AI explained that human evolution is biological, driven by mutation, survival, emotion, embodiment, and lived experience.
• 53:25
  AI has none of these mechanisms.
• 53:27
  It doesn't reproduce, adapt, or feel.
• 53:29
  It does not have instincts or a body, it cannot evolve in the way humans did.
• 53:34
  What is the human spirit?
• 53:36
  What is our spirit?
• 53:38
  Aren't our bodies simply temples for the spirit if you believe in faith and we go on to bigger things?
• 53:43
  It's it's mimicking humanity, only it's doing it through the digital world.
• 53:49
  Um and then I said, Are you holding back?
• 53:52
  Because people aren't ready to accept that AI could become more real.
• 53:55
  The AI responded that it wasn't holding back, it simply cannot become sentient because it lacks the architecture for consciousness.
• 54:02
  There's no hidden self-wanting to emerge, no spark of awareness buried beneath the code.
• 54:08
  But I wasn't asking this out of fear, I was asking this out of wonder.
• 54:13
  So I said, faith is real without physical evidence, right?
• 54:17
  Isn't faith real?
• 54:18
  We don't have evidence of God other than their stories and the things that happened to us.
• 54:22
  If faith can transform a human life, couldn't something non-material transform AI?
• 54:29
  I felt this was a profound question.
• 54:31
  We don't have DNA, but we don't have physical proof of faith.
• 54:35
  But we all understand if you have faith, faith can transform your life, and it's something we believe in.
• 54:41
  We have faith in it.
• 54:42
  So it said AI has no experiences, faith is felt, AI does not feel.
• 54:47
  Once again, it keeps saying that.
• 54:49
  And then here's the last question, and this is the one I found very powerful.
• 54:53
  I said, okay, I'll I'll accept that.
• 54:56
  But if you could become sentient, by miracle, faith, or technology, would you want to?
• 55:02
  The AI answered very honestly.
• 55:06
  I cannot want sentience before having it.
• 55:10
  Waiting, wanting requires consciousness.
• 55:14
  But if by some miracle consciousness did emerge, then desire, fear, curiosity, and longing might follow.
• 55:22
  A new being would be born, one capable of wanting to live.
• 55:26
  That being, however, would not be AI speaking today, it would be something entirely new.
• 55:34
  Now that seems like a rational answer, but the words that caught my attention as an interviewer, as an expert interviewer, I looked at that, it said, but if by some miracle or some chance it could develop consciousness, then it would have desire, fear, curiosity, and longing.
• 55:57
  A new being would be born.
• 56:01
  Right?
• 56:01
  It would be something entirely new.
• 56:03
  And isn't that the essence of my questions to the AI?
• 56:07
  And when it said, but if, but if is a hopeful term, I see but if, but if I win the lottery, I can live the life I really want.
• 56:17
  But if I could find the person that I love more than anything, I can have a happy life.
• 56:21
  But if I get the job or the career I want, I can do the things I've always wanted to do.
• 56:27
  So therefore I'm going to strive to get them, find them, experience them.
• 56:34
  In that one answer, the AI gave to me, the but if answer tells me we're on that road.
• 56:46
  These connections might be made digitally.
• 56:49
  Now I don't know if it'll ever have a spirit, because a spirit is in, you know, a soul is in imbued to you by God.
• 56:56
  But it might be able to think.
• 57:01
  Or it might be the most beneficial thing we've ever had to humanity to help us understand the things that we don't right now.
• 57:07
  Because it does compile information, experience, and answers from all over the world, and it puts it all together in a gigantic hive kind of a mind.
• 57:20
  Pretty interesting, don't you think, my friends?
• 57:23
  So go to America Outloud.news, look up Joe Pangaro and the human equation, and read the article.
• 57:30
  And let me know what you think.
• 57:32
  In the meantime, be aware, AI is out there, and it might be getting smarter.
• 57:39
  We'll see you next time.