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Work Friends vs. Real Friends - Can They Overlap? · All About Friendships

• 0:04
  Speaker 1: US Studios. Uh oh, look, so we're in this team meeting, right,
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: big meeting directors in the room. VP is on the screen. Also, Marcus,
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: my boy, Marcus, my lunch buddy, the guy who knows
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: my Netflix password. He throws me under the bus. Not
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: like a subtle oops, didn't mean to kind of thing. No,
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: he straight up takes credit for the campaign idea that
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: I pitched him over Chipotle two tuesdays ago. I watched
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: his mouth move, I heard the words come out of
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: his face. Plus nobody in that room knew it was mine.
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: Nobody because Marcus didn't say, oh, hey, Paul had this idea. Nah,
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: he just he just said it like it was his,
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: Like I don't exist, Like those lunch conversations were just nothing. Okay,
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: First of all, breathe because I can hear your blood
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: pressure from here. That said.
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: Also, yeah, that's we don't judge, we analyze. There's a difference,
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: very small difference, but a difference then too. And if
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: you've been here since episode one, shout out to you.
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: You already know the vibes. You know what this is about.
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: We tackled ghosting last time. The friend who just vanishes
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: on you like a magic trick plus and this time
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: we're going somewhere even messier.
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: Because today's topic hits different. If you've ever had a
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: friend at work, which let's be real, most of you have,
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: or had or lost what face that face where you're
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: about to tell me a story but you're still deciding
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: how much detail to include? Now face okay, fair? You
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: know me too well, and that's concerning. Right. I ran
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: into someone last week, someone I haven't seen in like
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: four years, maybe five. Derek. You remember Derek from college.
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: That's the one, same green jacket. By the way, some
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: things don't change. Grocery store, Like eight pm on a Tuesday,
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: I'm in the cereal aisle, don't judge my serial choices,
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: and I hear someone go, yo, is that Edzel? And
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: I turn around and there he is, holding a box
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: of store brand cornflakes, looking at.
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: Me like he just saw a ghost. We stood in
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: that aisle for like twenty minutes, just talking, caught up
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: on everything, where we're living, what we're doing, who, we're
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: still in touch with, our whole nine.
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: Also, here's what's wild. Within like three minutes, it felt
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: like no time it passed.
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: You know that feeling where you jump right back in
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: like you never left exactly. Then again, that got me
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: curious about something, which spoiler ties into what we're about
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: to talk about today. Still, I'll hold that thought. What
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: about you? You look like you've got about fourteen stories
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: queued up. I respect the organization I do. What's more, honestly,
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: that's the exact question we're digging into today. On the
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: flip side, let me ask you something first, when's the
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: last time you and I hung out outside of podcast stuff? Round? Also,
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: how long have we been doing this show? Seven? Here's
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: the thing, how many of those seven years did we
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: actually consider each other friends versus just people who happen
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: to be in the same room sometimes? And that right there,
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: that evolution from proximity to actual connection, that's the whole
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: conversation today. You're welcome now, stop stalling and tell me
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: about the trail you did not tell me about this
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: go honestly. So, every year, the company does this holiday
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: party at a fancy restaurant downtown, open bars, catered food,
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: the whole nine. Now, there's always this moment where people
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: start revealing who they actually are outside the office, Like
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: the quiet accountant she got on the karaoke machine and
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: absolutely shredded a Whitney Houston song. People were standing on chairs.
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: Here was electric. Okay, but where's the drama. The drama
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: is there was this group of us who'd been hanging
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: out all year, lunch crew, happy hour regulars. Oh hole deal.
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: We called ourselves the A Team. Stupid name, I know.
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: Then again, we were tight, or at least I thought
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: we were. Also at this party, I found out that
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: two of them, Priyan and Tanya, had been going to
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: upper management behind our backs all year, complained about our work,
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: snitching about who was showing up late, who was slacking
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: on deadlines, all of it.
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: No, that's a special kind of betrayal because it's not
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: just the information that's the problem. It's the trust violation.
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: You let someone into your unfiltered self and they weaponized it.
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: That's going to tie into something big we're going to
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: talk about later, loyalty conflicts.
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: At the same time, let's save that. That's the perfect
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: setup because you just described the central tension in about
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: thirty seconds. Clearly, feeling is real. Of course, context is fragile.
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: Let's break it down. Okay, let's define our terms first,
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: because I feel like people use friend way too loosely.
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: A real friend my definition, is someone who shows up
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: when it's inconvenient, not just when it's fun, not just
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: when there's a happy hour involved, when it costs them something,
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: when they have to go out of their way, when
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: they choose you, even when there's zero benefit to choosing
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: you exactly. However, the critical difference is this, In those
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: other scenarios, the bond has to survive outside the original
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: context to prove itself. Bootcamp friends who stay friends after discharge.
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: Those are real college roommates who keep calling each other
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: after graduation. Real work friends who keep showing up after
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: one of you leaves the company, also real in reality,
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: they're the exception, not the rule. Sure. Also, that's the
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: overlap zone we're going to talk about. Some work friendships
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: do cross over. Though. Let me ask you and be honest,
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: how many work friendships have you had? Total? Also, how
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: many survived you leaving? Oh? This is a big one,
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: because venting is healthy, right, everybody needs to decompress. Everybody
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: needs someone to say, can you believe what happened in
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: that meeting? That's normal, that's human. Here's the issue starts
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: when venting becomes the foundation of the friendship.
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: I mean when the only conversations you have with your
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: work friend or complaints, When every lunch is the complaint session.
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: When you walk away from every interaction feeling more frustrated
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: than when you started, that's not friendship. That's a shared
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: therapy session where neither person is qualified. Absolutely moreover, venting
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: to someone who understands the context is valuable. Every warning
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: sign is when that becomes the only thing you have
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: in common.
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: Because here's what happens. You bond over negativity and then
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: you start to associate that person with negative feelings. Every
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: time you see them, you're reminded of what's going wrong. Also,
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: eventually the friendship starts to feel heavy. That's a perfect description. Also,
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: the tricky part is when you try to change that dynamic.
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: Sometimes the other person doesn't want to because the venting
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: is serving a purpose for them too. It's their outlet. Besides,
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: when you pull away from that, they can feel rejected,
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: even though you're just trying to protect your own energy.
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: Self awareness is underrated. Even so, let's move to something
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: that's even more complicated. The promotion dilemma slightly above is
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: still above. This is the real litmus test, right because
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: This is when the proximity trap gets exposed, when the
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: daily gym it stops, when you're no longer running into
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: each other in the kitchen or sitting three desks apart.
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: What sustains the connection and the answer for most people
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: is not much, which is okay. That's not a moral failing,
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: it's just reality. Life is busy. People have limited bandwidth, right.
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: Maintaining a friendship takes intentional effort when the work contexts
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: forced that effort for you. When you saw each other
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: every day, by default, you didn't have to think about it.
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: That said, now you do. Seriously, a lot of people don't.
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: You're the friends who survive the departure test are the
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: ones who make the first move. Not the company, not
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: the schedule, not the shared calendar, invite the individual.
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: Someone has to say, Hey, want to grab dinner this week.
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: Someone has to put it on the calendar. Someone has
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: to be the initiator. Also, if nobody does the friend
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: to work place buddy Paul, I had a collidue, Michelle,
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: who left our company about two years ago. Honestly, when
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: she left, I told myself, we're gonna stay close. We're
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: definitely stare me out and you know what happened. You
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: didn't stay close. Okay, here's the ultimate filter, because a
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: real one a ride or die, genuine no questions, ask friend,
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: they pick up at two am, not because they want to,
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: because they care more about you than they care about
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: their sleep. Now and most work friends, no shade to them,
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: but most work friends are not picking up at two am.
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: They might text back the next morning like, hey, Saya called,
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: everything okay, but they're not answering the phone furthermore. And
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: that's fine. That's totally fine. Not every friendship has to
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: be a two am friendship. Here's the issue is when
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: you expect someone from work to fill that role and
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: they don't, and then you feel betrayed. That's not betrayal,
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: that's a mismatched expectation. I did pick up. I appreciate
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: you saying that, even though you woke me up during
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: your d about flying, so I was already disoriented. I
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: was a bird, honestly, was peaceful.
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: Then you called, and I was a guy in boxers
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: holding a phone much less elegant. Yes, absolutely, truth be
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: told happens, However, it's rare. Also, when it does happen,
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: there are usually specific ingredients.
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: Present. First, there's a real friend that exists beyond the
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: work context. You actually like the person as a human being,
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: not just as a colleague. Second, there's mutual effort. Both
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: people are investing in the relationship outside the office hours,
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: in your personal life contexts. Third, and this becomes the
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: big one, there's a moment of vulnerability. Something happens that
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: forces you to be real with each other. A crisis,
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: a loss, a celebration that matters, something that breaks through
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: the professional veneer. Exactly like that, except with Sarah, the
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: context changed before the friendship had time to cement. If
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: she had stayed, if you'd had more of those moments,
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: it might have been different. Every friendship needed more time
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: to solidify before the environment shifted. Look so, basically, the
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: work environment is like a greenhouse. Then can help a
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: friendship grow, But if you take the plant out of
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: the greenhouse too early, it might not survive.
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: That's actually a perfect metaphor. Every greenhouse creates ideal conditions
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: for growth. Listen, sub Eventually, if you want the plant
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: to thrive outside, it needs to develop roots that go
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: deeper than the pot. Plus, most work friendships never get
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: the chance to develop those roots before someone transfers, leaves
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: or the company restructures. Intentionality, that's the whole word. You
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: got to be intentional about it. Every friendship won't maintain itself.
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: Nothing does. Here's what I mean, here's what I've seen.
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: Work one.
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: Schedule it, put it on the calendar, monthly, lunch, bi weekly, call,
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: whatever it is. Treat it like a commitment, not a maybe.
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: Two. Diversify the context. Don't just do work related things.
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: Go to a concert, play basketball, cook together. Give the
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: friendship new soil to grow in.
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: Three.
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: Be the one who reaches out. Don't wait for them,
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: just text them, call them, show up.
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: That's an excellent point. Living in the Nestaija zone as
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: a trap here makes the friendship feel stuck in time.
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: If you only connect over shared memories of a place
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: you no longer share, you're not really connecting. You're just
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: replaying a highlight reel now. And there's something kind of
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: sad about that because it means the friendship doesn't have
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: a present tense seriously, only exists in the past tense. Also,
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: a friendship that lives entirely in the past tense isn't
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: really a friendship anymore. That's a museum piece. That's a
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: strong way to put it. Moreover, it's accurate. I remember
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: trying to maintain a friendship with this guy, Kevin, after
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: I left my second job. Every time we got together,
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: we'd spend the first hour talking about work stuff, the
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: old team, the old projects, the old drama. Then again,
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: by the time we ran out of work stories, there
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: was nothing left.
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: We didn't have enough non work material to fill the
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: rest of the evening. Picture this the dinners would just
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: kind of end awkwardly with a well good case catching up.
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: That felt hollow.
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: Then two, and that is, honestly, the friendship had no
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: roots outside the pot. There was all work all the time.
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: When you remove the work, there was bare dirt and
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: nothing else.
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: Baar dirt and nothing else. That's exactly right. Okay, here's
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: the signs I've noticed. One, the friendship only exists during
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: work hours. If you never talk outside of nine to five.
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: If there's no weekend text, no after hours call, no hey,
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: want to grab a drink sometime, that's a red flag. Two,
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: the conversations are always surface level, whether weekend plans, the
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: latest office gossip, nothing deeper, no real talk about fears, dreams,
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: struggles three. When you're going through something hard, they're nowhere
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: to be found. A read genuine Frank sen An office
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: friend waits for you to mention it at the lunch table.
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: Showing up without permission is a sign of real friendship.
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: Work friendship often has this invisible boundary where you feel
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: like you can't cross into personal territory unless invited. Real
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: friendship doesn't have that one. That's the one sided friendship indicator. Also,
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: it shows up everywhere, not just at work. Then again
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: at work. It's especially common because the environment rewards self advocacy.
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: You're trained to pitch yourself, promote yourself, make yourself visible.
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: Some people bring that same energy into their friendships without
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: realizing it. Oh, this is the triple threat because now
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: you've got competing loyalties pulling you in different directions. If
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: your boss does something wrong and you want to vent
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: to your theet one yep. Next, your desk neighbor friend
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: is tight with your boss.
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: Who do you trust? What do you share? What do
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: you keep locked down? That's the structural problem, not about character,
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: It's about geometry. Three points of loyalty form a triangle,
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: and triangles are inherently unstable, someone's always going to feel
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: the tension of the other two sides pulling exactly. You
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: don't accidentally bump into someone on a zoom call. You
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: either planned to be there or you didn't. My take
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: on it, the organic, spontaneous element of building a colleague
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: inship is largely gone in remote settings. What you're left
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: with are those who are already your friends before going remote,
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: and the rare cases where someone makes a deliberate effort
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: to connect through a screen, plus and.
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: The befall folks wake that effort, the ones who schedule
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: the virtual coffee chats, who send the hey, how's it
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: going dms, who remember to ask about your dog's vet appointment.
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: Those people are gold because they're fighting against the current.
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: Every current says stay in your lane, keep your camera
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: on during meetings, and log off. Going against that takes
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: real effort, and that's actually a filter for real friendship
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: because the people, the ones who effort remotely, would have
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: made the effort in person two specifically medium changes, but
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: the intention doesn't. A person who cares about you will
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: find a way to connect, whether it's across a desk
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: or across a screen, and that speaks to something deeper
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: about how context shapes connection. We are different versions of
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: ourselves in different settings. Your work from home version of
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: you might be wittier than the in office version. A
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: zoom version of someone might be warmer than the hallway version. Also,
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: that's not fake, just reality. We adapt to our environments. Now,
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: question is which version is more authentic? And the answer
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: is which version is more authentic? And the answer is both.
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: They both are. People are multi dimensional. Listen, zoom you
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: and the in person You are both you just express
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: through different lenses. That's the limitation. Also, it's not a
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: flaw in the person, it's a flaw in the medium.
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: Real connection requires full body presence, a lean in during
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: a serious conversation, a hand on the shoulder, the way
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: someone's voice drops when they're about to share something vulnerable.
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: Zoom flattens all of that real talk. Flat connections are
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: harder to make deep. Nobody asked. That's one of the
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: most heartbreaking things about remote work friendships. Your distance isn't
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: just physical, it's emotional. Honestly, creates a buffer that makes
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: it easy to overlook the people with people datting in
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: an office, you see the empty desk, You notice the
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: absence on zoom, the gallery of you just reach shows
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: and nobody's the wiser now, and that realization changed how
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: I show up in remote settings. Now someone's camera's been
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: off for a while, I five hundred them just as simple,
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: Hey you good, no pressure, no expectation of a response.
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: Then again, I want them to know that somebody noticed here.
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: They're not invisible. That's the kind of effort we were
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: talking about earlier. Listen. Particular intentionality, honestly won't always lead
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: to a deep friendship, but it might be exactly what
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: that person needs in the moment. Also, sometimes a single
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: you good text from a coworker is the thing that
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: reminds you you're not alone. I tell them to use
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: a framework. Also.
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: The framework is simple, ask yourself four questions. One have
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: we connected outside of work? If the answer is no,
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: that's a data point, not a deal breaker, but a
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: data point. Two what I call this person if something
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: bad happened to me and had nothing to do with work.
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: If you hesitate, that tells you something.
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: Three Can I be fully honest with this person? Or
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: do I edit myself? If you're curating the friendship is limited.
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: Four if one of us left this job tomorrow. Would
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: we still make an effort to see each other? Not?
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: Would we want to? Would we actually do it? They might?
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: In reality, the point isn't to make people feel bad
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: about their work friendships. Your point is to help people
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: understand what they have so they can invest accordingly. To
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: help people understand what they have so they can invest accordingly.
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: If your work friend is a circumstantial friend, that's okay.
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: Enjoy the friendship for what it is. Don't pressure it
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: to be something it's not. However, if you see the
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: signs of something deeper, the willingness to show up, the honesty,
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: the effort outside of work, then nurture that push it forward.
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: See if it can survive the transition. Dested friendships are
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: the strongest ones. Moreover, work provides one of the best
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: testing grounds there is because it combines proximity, stress, time,
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: and stakes in a way that nothing else really does.
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: If a friendship can survive the work environment and then
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: survive the end of the work environment, it can probably
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: survive anything well. So the real answer to our title question,
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: can work friends and real friends overlap is yes.
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: Even so, not automatically honestly takes intention, look takes effort.
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: Real talk takes both people choosing the friendship over the convenience. Also,
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: most of all, it takes honesty about what the friendship is,
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: what it can be, and what it needs to survive
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: outside the greenhouse. Well said, Then again, for the record, Paul,
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: you and Denise your hiking friend see where it goes. However,
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: don't force it. Let it grow in its own pace.
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: Some best friendships don't rush.
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: No.
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So we want to give a shout out to
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: a show that's on our same network. It's called Mystical
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: Archipelago Podcast. Also, if you haven't checked it out yet,
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: you're sleeping on something really good. What I love about
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: it is the storytelling. They don't just tell you a
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: myth and move on.
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: They give you the context, the history, the geography, the
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: culture that shaped these stories. You come away feeling like
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: you actually understand something about the islands and the people
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: who've lived there for generations. And the production quality is legit.
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: The way they layer, the narration, the pacing, the atmosphere
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: they create it pulls you in. You put on headphones
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: and suddenly or somewhere else entirely. That's the kind of
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: show you listen too late. At night when the house
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: is quiet and every little sound makes you a little
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: more alert. The tagline is fascinating folklore, myths and supernatural
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: tales from across the Philippine Archipelago, and they deliver on
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: that promise every episode honestly. So if you're into storytelling, folklore,
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: anything supernatural, or you just want to learn about a
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: rich cultural tradition that doesn't get enough attention, go check
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: out Mystical Archipelago podcast. Search it on Spreaker, follow the show,
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: leave a review if you like what you hear, Support
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: your network siblings, you know, show some love. They're doing
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: great work over there and they deserve the support. These
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: topics always do because friendship sounds simple until you start
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: picking it apart. Also, then you realize it's one of
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: the most complicated things in human life. We're also on
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: all the major platforms, Apple podcasts, Spotify, Google podcasts, wherever
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: you get your shows, we're probably there. Search all about
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: friendships and you'll find us. Then two and do us
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: a favor if this episode hit home for you, If
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: you've got a colligue did story, if you've been through
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: the promotion dilemma or the departure test, or any of
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: the stuff we talked about today, leave us a review,
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: tell us about it. We read every single one, every
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: single one. Some of them make me laugh, some of
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: them make me feel things. Also, one of them made
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: Paul cry. But we don't talk about that, or it
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: could be awkward, Listen said. Either way, it'll be interesting later.
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: Bro, Bro, Bro, I need to tell you what happened
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: to me at work last week because I am still
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: heated about it. Still heated.
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: Well, you know Marcus, right, Marcus from the marketing team,
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: your guy I'm been eating lunch with every single day
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: for the past eight months. Specifically, guy had told about
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: my raise before I even told my own mother.
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: This guy, that's what I'm saying ying. Here's the thing, man,
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: here's what kills me. I sat in that meeting and
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: I didn't say a word, not one word, because part
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: of me, the stupid part of me, kept going back
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: to Nah, Marcus wouldn't do that on purpose. He's gonna
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: circle back, He's gonna credit me later. And then the
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: meeting ended and he came up to me all smiling,
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: like good meeting, right, good meeting, good meeting. Hey, welcome
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: back to all about friendships. The show where we break
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: down everything about the friendships that shape your life. I'm
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: Paul Furthermore, and I'm Edzel. If you're new here, First
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: of all, what took you so long? We've been waiting, However,
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: seriously welcome. Listen is the podcast where my guy Edzel
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: and I sit down and have real conversations about friendship,
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: the good, the bad, the complicated, the why did I
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: text him back? Moments? Today we're talking about work friends
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: versus real friends, and whether those two things can ever overlap.
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: Can the person you grab coffee with at nine am
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: also be someone you call at two am? Let's get
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: into it all right before we dive into the heavy stuff.
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: Catch up time. What's been going on with you? Man?
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: You look like you've been through something. You got that face? Wait?
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: Derek Tall Derek played in Chum Murals. Derek wore that
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: same green jacket every single day. Derek, no shot? Where'd
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: you run into him? Okay, that's actually kind of wholesome.
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: What happened next? Yeah, that's rare, though specifically doesn't happen
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: with everybody. Bro, Where do I even start? Look? I
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: started this new project at work, right, which means new team,
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: new deadlines, new everything. Also, I'm paired with this woman, Denise,
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: super sharp, super organized, color codes everything Like her Google
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: calendar looks like a rainbow threw up on it. Right
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: on top of that. At first, I was like, Okay, cool,
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: she's gonna be my work person. You know something I
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: mean by that my work friend. Every single you eat
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: lunch with, some single you complain to about the Wi Fi,
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: your single you send memes to in the group chat
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: during stand ups, they're the designated office companion exactly, specifically
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: said then, and here's where it gets interesting. We started
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: actually vibing, like outside of work stuff. She mentioned she's
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: into hiking. I mentioned I've been trying to get into hiking.
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: Next thing, you know, we're making plans to hit a
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: trail this weekend. Also, I'm sitting there like, wait, is
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: this am I making a real friend at work or
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: is this just the proximity thing talk? Let me tell
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: you something.
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: What I mean.
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: Last Thursday we got tacos a couple months now plus
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: And how long did we know each other before that? Man,
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: like six years seven? Honestly probably the first three were
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: we existed near each other, we were at the same events,
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: same circles. But it wasn't like I'm calling this dude
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: if something goes wrong. See, this is why I bring
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: you on this show man. You turn my random stories
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: into actual content. Oh the trail okay, So Denise and
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: I go on this hike right, sharp weather, perfect day,
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: sums out, birds making noise, that fresh dirt smell you
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: get after light rain. Also, the whole time, we're just
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: talking about life, not work, not deadlines, just life, Her family,
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: my family, what we want out of our careers, what
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: keeps us up at night. Here's the thing I'm sitting
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: there like, wait, this feels different now, doesn't feel like
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: a work friendship. Here feels like the beginning of something real. Still,
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: but you're still not sure. I'm still not sure because
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: the second we got back to work on Monday, everything
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: felt normal again, like the trail never happened. Also, I
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing.
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: That uncertainty is what makes this topic so fascinating, because
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: work friendships live in this weird in between space that
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: nothing else quite matches. Let's get into it. Oh and
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: before we dive in, did I tell you about the
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: office holiday party drama from a few months back, because
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: that's a whole other work friendship saga that just reminded
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: me of everything we're about to talk about. Dead serious.
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: I heard it from someone in HR.
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: Look.
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: I just stood there at this party, a plate of
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: shrimp cocktail, staring at Brian, laughing by the bars, and
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: I thought. We ate lunch together every day for twelve months.
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: We complained about management together, We made fun of the
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: same people together. Also, the whole time he was reporting
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: back to them every whole time, exactly right. The worst
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: part I couldn't even be mad at him because I
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: didn't know the rules. I didn't know there was an
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: informer in the group. Nobody told me, seriously, that's the
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: danger of work friendships. You assume everyone's playing by the
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: same rules, and sometimes they're not all right. Fair though
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: that party man, I left early, walked out into the
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: cold night air, hands shoved in my jacket pockets, and
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: just stood on the sidewalk for a minute. Every sound
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: of the party leaking through the glass doors behind me,
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: people laughing, music, thumping. Also, I'm out there alone, questioning everything.
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: Twelve months of friendships just recalibrated in one night. Oh
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: and one more thing. I gotta tell you what happened
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: at the office this last Friday. Think about it. Our
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: team does this thing where we all go to this
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: bars around the corner for drinks after work on Fridays. Casual,
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: low key, nothing major. Honestly. I'm sitting there with Marcus, yeah,
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: the same Marcus from the Cold Open, and Denise and
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: a couple other people. Also. Marcus is holding court telling
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: this hilarious story about his weekend. Everyone's laughing, the beer's flowing,
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: real talk. I look around the table and I realize something.
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: Every single person at this table, in this moment feels
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: like someone genuine. Every warmth of it, the laughter, the
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: way everybody's leaning in, it felt like community. Also, then,
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: I've thought about the fact that if Marcus left the
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: company tomorrow, I'd probably never see half these people again.
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: Think about it. The warmth just cooled right there, sitting
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: on that sticky bars table with a half finished IPA
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: in front of me. Here shift that flip. That's what
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: today is all about. Right, So work friends versus real friends?
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: Where do we even start? Because I feel like everybody
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: has an office friend, right, Somebody you're cool with at
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: the office, somebody you grab lunch with, chat in the breakroom,
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: maybe even text outside of work hours. However, the question
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: is does that make them a real one, that's solid,
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: that's solid on the other hand. On the other hand,
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: and I'm not saying this to diminish work friendships they serve,
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: but an office friend is someone you have a real
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: friend with inside the context of work. You enjoyed their company,
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: you trust them with certain things. Yet the relationship is
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: anchored to a place, a schedule, a shared set of circumstances.
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: Remove those circumstances and you have to ask what's left now?
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: And that's the scary part, right because when you're in
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: the middle of it, it doesn't feel circumstantial, seriously, feels real.
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: You're sharing meals together, you're venting about the same terrible manager,
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: You're celebrating each other's wins. Feels like friendship, truth be told,
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: it does. Here's what I want to be clear about.
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: I'm not saying work friendships are fake. They're not. A
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: lot of the feelings are genuine. Issue is that they
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: operate inside a bubble. This the operate inside a bubble. Also,
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: bubbles are lovely until they pop. Okay, but can we
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: talk about why they feel so intense, because I swear
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: some of my closest feeling friendships in my twenties have
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: been work friendships. Like there was one one time at
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: my old job, I was going through a breakup and
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: my coworker Sarah noticed I was off, didn't ask me
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: in front of everyone, waited until we were alone in
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: the parking garage, leaned against your car and just said
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: you okay, And I broke down right there, standing next
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: to a Hannasivik. I just started crying, and that felt
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: like a true on end moment. Then again, here's the thing.
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: Three months later, Sarah transferred to a different department. Picture this.
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: Within six weeks, we barely spoke. We'd wave in the hallway,
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: maybe exchange of how's it going at the holiday party,
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: but the connection was just gone, like someone turned off
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: a light switch. Now, and that's what I call the
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: proximity trap. Let me explain. When you spend forty plus
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: hours a week with someone, your brain does something tricky. Remember,
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: starts to confuse proximity with intimacy. You share space, you
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: share time, you share stress. Listen creates a feeling of
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: closeness that feels earned but is actually just manufactured by circumstance,
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: like how people in boot camp become best friends for
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: twelve weeks and then never speak again. That's such a
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: good comparison, because you're right at work, you're sharing stress,
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: you're in the trenches together. Also, there's something bonding about
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: shared suffering. It's why soldiers form lifelong bonds. It's why
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: college roommates stay close. That's the same mechanism. Okay, but
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: here's where I push back a little, because I've had
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: work friendships that survived me leaving a job. My buddy Jason,
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: we work together at this one place for about two years.
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: When I quit, we kept hanging out. We get beers,
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: watch games, go to concerts. Here wasn't just about the
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: job anymore. Probably twelve or thirteen work friendships that felt
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: real at the time. Furthermore, maybe three or four that
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: lasted basically, so about twenty five to thirty percent plus.
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: That's actually a pretty normal ratio. Your overlap is possible,
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: but it's not the default. Possible, but it's not the default.
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: Most work friendships dissolve when the shared context disappears, not
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: because people are bad or fake, but because the glue
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: holding the relationship together was the environment, not the people.
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: That's a hard pill to swallow, man, because in the
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: moment it feels so real. That does Also, I need
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: to be careful here because I'm not trying to make
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: people feel stupid for investing in work friendships. Those relationships matter.
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: They make your daily life better, They make hard days bearable. Listen.
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: Mistake is informing them. Some mistake is assuming all of
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: them will survive a context change without putting in the
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: work to make that happen. Assuming all of them will
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: survive a context change without putting in the work to
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: make that happen. All right, So let's talk about the
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: boundary problem, because this is where things get real messy.
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: When does venting about your boss someone from the old
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: fake colligan crossed the line into toxic territory? What do
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: you need? Okay, but and I'm guilty of this, sometimes
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: you need to vent to someone who actually gets it.
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: Like you can't vent to your spouse about every little
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: office thing because they weren't there. They don't understand the context.
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: Your office buddy was in the room, they heard what
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: the boss said, they saw the email chain. There's a
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: shorthand there, dude, I had that exact experience. Take there
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: was a guy at my old job, Ryan, super nice dude. However,
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: every conversation we had was just complaining about the workload,
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: about the management, about the policies. Then again, after a while,
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: I started avoiding him, not because I didn't like him,
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: but because being around him drained me. There was like
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: emotional coffee that had been sitting out too long, bitter
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: and lukewarm. Right. Also, then there's the flip side, when
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: you're a one venting and you realize you've been using
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: your office buddy as an emotional dumping ground. What's more,
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: you you feel guilty about it, Like, man, this person
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: deserves better than just hearing me complain for forty five
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: minutes every Tuesday. Oh god, here we go. Look, so
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: picture this. You and that person from work are at
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: the same level, your peers, your equals. You share the
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: same frustrations, the same victories, the same inside jokes about
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: the broken printer on the third floor. Here's the thing.
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: Then one of you gets promoted, not both of you one.
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: What happens to the friendship? Look, it gets weird. Listen
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: gets really weird because subtly there's a power dynamic that
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: didn't exist before. Someone who could got promoted might start
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: acting different, not intentionally, but the dynamic shifts. They're making
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: decisions now, they're in different meetings, they have access to
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: information the other person doesn't. Furthermore, and the person who
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: didn't get promoted, even if they're happy for their friend,
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: genuinely happy, there's a set of resentment that gets planted.
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: It's human nature. You were equal yesterday and today you're not. Also,
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: no amount of I'm really happy for you fully erasis
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: that sting. I watched this happen with two of my friends,
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: Drane and Chris. They work at the same company for
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: three years. They were tight, like tight tight. They went
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: on vacation together, their girlfriends were friends. There was a
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: whole thing. Here's the thing. Then Draane got promoted to
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: Chris's team, not as his manager, but to a senior
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: role that put him slightly above Chris on the or
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: chart exactly now. It was subtle at first, Chris said,
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: Duwayne stopped asking for his opinion in meetings. He started
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: making decisions without checking in. Also, Chris told me he
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: was like, I know it's not personal, I know, it's
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: just the job. However, it feels personal, and within six
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: months they weren't hanging out anymore, not fighting, not beefing,
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: just drifting. Honestly, that drift is so common and so
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: preventable if people just talked about it openly. However, nobody
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: does because it's awkward. You don't hope to be the
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: person who says, hey, your promotion is messing with our friendship,
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: because that sounds petty, right. Look, you also don't try
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: to be the person who got promoted and says, hey,
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: is our friendship weird now, because that sounds guilty. Well,
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: so nobody says anything, and the silence fills this space
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: where honesty should be. Also, the friendship just slowly suffocates.
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: I've seen this pattern repeat dozens of times. Every promotion
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: doesn't kill the friendship. The avoidance of the conversation does. Man,
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: that's heavy. Okay, let's talk about another scenario. No way
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: departure test. What happens when one person leaves the job.
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: We didn't stay close. We texted for like two weeks,
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: then it was once a month, then it was just
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: birthday messages, real talk. Now it's nothing. Also, I don't
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: even know how it happened. There was no fight, no
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: falling out, just silence his loudest kind. Plus. And the
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: thing is, you can't even blame Michelle for it, because
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: she probably had the same intention you did. She probably
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: told herself the same thing. We're gonna stay close. But
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: intentions without action are just wishes. Think about it. Wishes
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: don't show up at your door with a six pack
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: of whatever you drink on a Thursday night. Are the
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: silence that happens when two people both assume the other
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: person will reach out and nobody does. That's not betrayal,
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: that's just two busy humans letting inertia win. All Right,
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: here's a big one. Some two am friend test, would
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: the work buddy pick up at two am?
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: See?
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: I tested this once, not on purpose, but it happened.
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: I had a work situation that went sideways. I won't
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: get into the details, but it was around midnight and
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: I was panicking. I needed someone to talk to. Also,
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: I almost called my work friend Marcus every single from
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: the cold open. Consider this. I hesitated. My thumb was
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: hovering over his name in my contacts, and I just
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: couldn't do it. Not because I didn't trust him, still
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: because something in my gut said this isn't the person
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: for this moment, And I called you instead picture this?
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: You picked up. You did Also, you were half asleep
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: and you still talked me through it for like forty
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: five minutes. That's a friend. That's the difference. Every two
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: AM test isn't about a specific time. It's about who
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: your brain reaches for when everything falls apart. Wait, you
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: were dreaming about fly? Okay, let's refocus. Can work friends
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: become real friends? Can you start as coworkers and end
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: up as lifelong works like the parking garage moment with Sarah.
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: Let's talk about how to maintain work friendships after someone leaves,
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: what actually works? That's good advice. On the flip side,
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: Can I add one, don't make it all about reminiscing
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: about the old job, since I experienced those catchups where
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: the whole conversation is just remember when so and so
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: did this, remember that one meeting? And it's fun for
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: like ten minutes, but then it feels like you're trying
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: to recreate the past instead of building something new. All right,
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: let's talk about red flags. How do you know a
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: coworker you vibe with entrip is only circumstantial? Like how
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: do you spot the difference between a real connection and
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: one that's just convenience? Man Number three hit me because
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: I've been that person where someone at work is clearly
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: going through it and I don't say anything because I
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: figure it's not my place. However, then I look back
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: at the people who showed up for me during hard times,
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: and they didn't wait for permission, they just showed up.
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: Here's another one I've noticed when that COLLEGGI only reaches
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: out when they need something. Also, I don't mean like,
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: can you cover for me in this meeting? I mean
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: when the conversation always loops back to their needs, their project,
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: their deadline, their drama on talk. Additionally, I try to
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: share something about your own life, they give you the
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: polite version of listening, the oh that's rough man, followed
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: by immediately pivoting back to themselves. Okay, here's another scenario.
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: Any loyalty conflict, your cocrees also your boss's friend. What happens? Then?
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: I've been in this exact situation. My work friend Carlos
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: was super close with our manager Diana. What's more, Diana
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: made a call that affected my team negatively. I wanted
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: to vent to Carlos. But I knew anything I said
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: to Carlos would eventually find its way back to Diana.
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: Not because Carlos was a snitch. Simultaneously, because he and
• 37:46
  Speaker 2: Diana had this dynamic where they shared everything they'd known
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: each other way before I joined the company, their loyalty
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: predated mine. Okay, so I held it in. Also that
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: holding in created distance between me and Carlos because I
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: couldn't be fully honest with him. Also, here's the poison
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: of the loyalty conflict. You start self censoring, you start
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: editing yourself around your friend. Here's the thing, the moment
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: you absolutely must edit yourself around someone, the friendship isn't
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: fully honest anymore. It's curated. Curated friendship. That's such a
• 38:16
  Speaker 2: good term for it, like a highlight reel, but for
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: your actual personality. You're only showing the parts that are safe. Now.
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: And here's the truth. This isn't unique to work. Here
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: happens in family dynamics, friend groups, any situation where loyalties overlap. However,
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: at work, the stakes are higher because your livelihood is involved.
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: You're not just protecting a friendship, you're protecting your career. Also,
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: when those two things compete. Career usually wins, not because
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: people are cold, but because rent is due. That's real.
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: Here's the thing. There's a particular flavor of pain to
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: it when the paything a person who is your closest
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: work ally turns out to be playing both sides, not
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: in a malicious way. They genuinely care about you and
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: they genuinely care about the boss. Though they can you
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: can't hold both loyalties at all that once at that
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: one eventually leaking into the other. All right, I want
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: to talk about something that's changed the game completely remote work.
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: Because pre pandemic work friendships were built on proximity, you'd
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: see someone every day, share a physical space, have those
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: hallway conversations. Yet now half the workforce is on zoom. Basically,
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: how does that change the work friendship dynamic? Truth be told,
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: it changes it fundamentally because hallway friendships are organic. They
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: happen in the spaces between structured interactions. You bump into
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: someone at the coffee machine, you chat while waiting for
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: the elevator, You overhear something funny and share a look.
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: Those micro moments create a fabric of connection that scheduled
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: zoom calls simply cannot replicate. Right on Zoom, every interaction
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: is intentional. You have no choice but the schedule it.
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: You no need to tick a link yoyo mustoo's to
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: be in the same virtual room. There's no accidental encounter. Also,
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: those accidental encounters are where a lot of work friendships start. Okay,
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: but let me push back on that a little. Having
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: gone through had remote work friends who I genuinely vibe
• 40:04
  Speaker 2: with on Zoom, like great conversations, real connection, and then
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: when we finally met in person at a company retreat,
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: it was awkward, like the in person chemistry wasn't there.
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: That happens now. It goes both ways. Sometimes zoom friendships
• 40:18
  Speaker 2: translate well to in person. Look sometimes the screen was
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: doing you a favor because on Zoom you control what
• 40:24
  Speaker 2: people see. You've got your background, your lighting, your carefully
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: chosen camera angle. In person, you can't control the vibe.
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: You're just there, all of you. Also, sometimes the magic
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: doesn't carry.
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: Over as so real.
• 40:38
  Speaker 2: I had this one remote coworker Amy. We had the
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: best Zoom batter like, we were cracking each other up
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: in every meeting, Yet when we met in person at
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: a company retreat, it was like talking to a different person.
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: Not bad, just different. Your energy was off. She was
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: quieter in person, less quick with the jokes. Right, I
• 40:55
  Speaker 2: was like, is this the same person I've been talking
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: to for eight months? That's actually kind of comforting because
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: I used to feel weird about it, like I was
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: being fake on zoom or something. However, you're right, it's
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: just a different facet of the same person. Furthermore, and
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: remote work adds another layer to this that people don't
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: talk about enough, the absence of physical presence. When someone's
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: in the room, you can read their body language. You
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: can see when they're stressed from the way they're gripping
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: their coffee mug. You can tell when something's wrong by
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: the way they're sitting. On Zoom, you get ahead and shoulders,
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: maybe a hand if they gesture. You lose about eighty
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: percent of the nonverbal communication that builds trust and connection. Seriously,
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: that missing data makes it harder to build the kind
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: of deep rapport that real friendship. Check this out. You
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: know what that explains. A I have had work situations
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: where someone seemed totally fine on zoom and then I
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: found out they were going through the worst time of
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: their life. Honestly, I had no idea, zero clue, because
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: the camera only showed me what they wanted me to see.
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: I had another remote situation that really drove this home there.
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: I knew this one, and on my team, Priya's brilliant, funny,
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: the kind of person who could make a sprindtsheet interesting
• 42:03
  Speaker 2: in a meeting. We had this great dynamic on calls.
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: She threw out a joke, I'd throw one back. The
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: rest of the team would laugh, truth be told, felt
• 42:12
  Speaker 2: like we were building something.
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: Think about it.
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: Then one week she just stopped showing up, camera off,
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: Mike muted, barely typing in the chat. Also, nobody asked
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: if she was okay. Not our manager, not our team lead,
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: not me. We just noted her absence and moved on.
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: Nobody asked consider this. A month later, she sent a
• 42:34
  Speaker 2: message to the team saying she'd been dealing with a
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: family crisis and had taken Netica leave. Also, I felt
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: like the worst person on earth, because if she'd been
• 42:41
  Speaker 2: sitting three feet from me, I would have noticed. I
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: would have seen it on her face. However, on zoom,
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: she was just a rectangle that turned off picture. This
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: the disconnect, the distance between the screen, and her actual
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: life was wide enough that her pain could exist entirely
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: invisible to us. All right, so let's bring this home.
• 42:59
  Speaker 2: What's the takeaway? If someone's listening right now and they're
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: trying to figure out whether their work friendship is real
• 43:04
  Speaker 2: or circumstantial, what do you tell them? Those are good questions,
• 43:08
  Speaker 2: Plus the answers might sting a little, because here's listen.
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: Some of the best friendships I've ever had started at work.
• 43:14
  Speaker 2: They started with coffee and complaints and shared deadlines. Also,
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: some of those friendships didn't last, though, the ones that did.
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: Every singles that made it through me leaving, through the silence,
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: through the awkward we should hang out text that nobody
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: follows up on. Those are some of the strongest relationships
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: in my life because they were tested. Man, you always
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: do that. You always drop some wisdom right at the
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: end that makes me feel things. Stop it all right,
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: before we wrap up, we've got a network shout out
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: at Zilla, you want to take this one for real?
• 43:44
  Speaker 2: In other words, here's what this show is about. Seriously
• 43:46
  Speaker 2: dives into the folklore, myths, and supernatural tales from across
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: the Philippine Archipelago. On top of more over eight covers everything,
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: I mean everything, ancient legends, regional ghost stories, creatures you've
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: never heard of, spiritual traditions that go back centuries. All right,
• 44:01
  Speaker 2: That brings us to the end of episode two. Man,
• 44:04
  Speaker 2: this one went deep, like deeper than I expected it too.
• 44:08
  Speaker 2: If you've been enjoying the show, first of all, thank you, seriously.
• 44:12
  Speaker 2: We appreciate every single one of you who's taking the
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: time to listen. What's more, if you want to make
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: sure you never miss an episode, go ahead and subscribe
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: or follow all about Friendships on spreaker. Just search for us,
• 44:24
  Speaker 2: hit that follow button and you'll get notified every time
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: we drop a new episode. Bro, we said, we want
• 44:29
  Speaker 2: to talk about that. Here's the thing. It was one
• 44:32
  Speaker 2: tier one, that was three I counted. Moving on next episode,
• 44:37
  Speaker 2: we're going somewhere really interesting. We're talking about the friend
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: group dynamic. You know, that core group of four, five,
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: six people who are all friends. Still, what happens when
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: the group starts fracturing, when someone feels left out, when
• 44:51
  Speaker 2: two people in the group have a falling out and
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: now everybody has to pick sides. That's what we're breaking
• 44:56
  Speaker 2: down in episode three. And if you think that topic
• 44:59
  Speaker 2: doesn't get comp located just wait. Because friend groups are
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: a whole ecosystem. There are alliances, unspoken hierarchies, the one
• 45:07
  Speaker 2: person who's friends with everyone, the one person who always
• 45:10
  Speaker 2: causes drama. Like a reality show, but it's your actual life.
• 45:14
  Speaker 2: It's gonna be a good one, right. Make sure you're
• 45:16
  Speaker 2: subscribed so you don't miss it. Drop us a follow,
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: leave a rating, Share the show with someone who needs
• 45:20
  Speaker 2: to hear it. Maybe that work friend we've been talking about.
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: Send them this episode and see how they react. Could
• 45:26
  Speaker 2: be a friendship defining moment right there. That's the spirit,
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: all right. I'm Paul now and I'm Mutzl. This has
• 45:33
  Speaker 2: been all about friendships. Thanks for listening, and we'll catch
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: you next time.
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: Peace,