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What’s the Difference Between Play Therapy and Using Play in Therapy? · Next Level Play Therapy: A Podcast for Play Therapy Excellence

• 0:02
  Cathi Spooner: Welcome to Next Level Play Therapy.
• 0:04
  Cathi Spooner: A weekly podcast dedicated to supporting the next generation of child and adolescent therapists to provide exceptional play therapy services.
• 0:14
  Cathi Spooner: We'll explore all things play therapy.
• 0:17
  Cathi Spooner: To elevate your work with children and adolescents using the therapeutic powers of play.
• 0:23
  Cathi Spooner: I'll discuss practical tips and ideas so you can provide a transformative experience for your young clients and make a real difference in their lives.
• 0:33
  Cathi Spooner: So get ready to take your play therapy skills to the next level and make a lasting impact in the lives of children, adolescents, and families.
• 0:49
  Cathi Spooner: Hey there.
• 0:50
  Cathi Spooner: Welcome to this week's episode of Next Level Play Therapy.
• 0:55
  Cathi Spooner: I was trying to go live on Instagram.
• 0:59
  Cathi Spooner: It's not working out very well.
• 1:02
  Cathi Spooner: Um, let me keep trying.
• 1:05
  Cathi Spooner: For those of you watching on LinkedIn and um, YouTube welcome to this week's episode.
• 1:14
  Cathi Spooner: It is International Play Therapy Week, and as play therapists, I thought it would be fun to have some actual play therapists with us today.
• 1:29
  Cathi Spooner: And so I, I gathered together some of our um, I'm still trying to figure out, I don't know.
• 1:38
  Cathi Spooner: Brill, if you can fit.
• 1:39
  Cathi Spooner: Brill is my virtual assistant on the backend, so I cannot, it's not going live.
• 1:45
  Cathi Spooner: It's not going live on Instagram this week.
• 1:48
  Cathi Spooner: Um, but anyways, I thought it would be fun to, I. Um, have some actual play therapists in the field talking about play therapy and why being a play therapist makes a difference.
• 2:04
  Cathi Spooner: And so that's what we're gonna talk about today.
• 2:06
  Cathi Spooner: And what actually is play therapy.
• 2:10
  Cathi Spooner: And why is that?
• 2:13
  Cathi Spooner: Why is that different than kind of that idea of pulling out games and toys?
• 2:20
  Cathi Spooner: As a way to help children talk.
• 2:23
  Cathi Spooner: And so in this episode I wanna talk first a little bit about what exactly is play therapy and then we will have a conversation with play therapists about why, why become a play therapy, what kind of drew you to this field?
• 2:43
  Cathi Spooner: So let's do some introductions.
• 2:45
  Cathi Spooner: Why don't we have, um, Heidi, if you wanna go ahead and do an introduction of yourself and then we'll have Amy, Julie, and Malia.
• 2:56
  Cathi Spooner: Okay.
• 2:57
  Cathi Spooner: Hi, my name is Heidi Ton and I, um, just got my LCSW license and I'm working towards my RPT, my registered play therapy license.
• 3:09
  Cathi Spooner: Um.
• 3:11
  Cathi Spooner: I work for Red Sand Psychiatry, restorative therapy, and counseling, and my main clientele are kids and teens, so that's me.
• 3:25
  Cathi Spooner: All righty.
• 3:25
  Cathi Spooner: How do you wanna go next?
• 3:31
  Cathi Spooner: Oh, I think you got Heidi, but I'll go next.
• 3:34
  Cathi Spooner: Oh, I meant Amy.
• 3:36
  Cathi Spooner: I'm still both multitasking.
• 3:38
  Cathi Spooner: I'm still trying to get Instagram back.
• 3:39
  Cathi Spooner: I might as well just give up.
• 3:41
  Cathi Spooner: Get up.
• 3:42
  Cathi Spooner: Amy Robinson.
• 3:43
  Cathi Spooner: I'm an LCSW.
• 3:44
  Cathi Spooner: I'm also certified in EMDR and I'm working towards my RPT.
• 3:49
  Cathi Spooner: Um, I work at Red Sand Psychiatry with Heidi and I. I see about half kids and half adults.
• 3:56
  Cathi Spooner: I really specialize in combining play therapy and EMDR together.
• 4:03
  Cathi Spooner: Awesome.
• 4:04
  Cathi Spooner: Thank you.
• 4:08
  Cathi Spooner: Hi, I am Julie Blake.
• 4:09
  Cathi Spooner: I'm a licensed marriage and family therapist and registered play therapist.
• 4:12
  Cathi Spooner: I work at Ascend Counseling kids and teens.
• 4:15
  Cathi Spooner: Um, with my colleague Malia.
• 4:17
  Cathi Spooner: I specialize in working with kids and adults, um, in play therapy and trauma.
• 4:25
  Cathi Spooner: All right.
• 4:26
  Cathi Spooner: Good morning.
• 4:26
  Cathi Spooner: I'm Malia McDermott.
• 4:27
  Cathi Spooner: I'm A-L-M-F-T and working towards my RPTI, um, spent some time, um, after getting licensed to set up a clinic, so that was fun and took a lot of time and energy, but now I'm pouring that into becoming more legit and getting my registered play therapist.
• 4:46
  Cathi Spooner: Um.
• 4:47
  Cathi Spooner: Trademark.
• 4:48
  Cathi Spooner: Um, and I do work at Ascend Counseling Kids and teens.
• 4:51
  Cathi Spooner: Um, it's my baby, uh, and I get to lead the team.
• 4:56
  Cathi Spooner: But, um, really just be inspired by all the wonderful people that come through our doors.
• 5:02
  Cathi Spooner: And, um, I like connecting with the community, so I know Heidi and Amy as well.
• 5:07
  Cathi Spooner: And, um, I get to be in Kathy's group twice a month, which is awesome.
• 5:13
  Cathi Spooner: Thanks for having us.
• 5:14
  Cathi Spooner: Yes, welcome.
• 5:17
  Cathi Spooner: Um, so this week I wanted to talk about, well, like we talk about play therapy all the time, and I think nowadays play therapy has really become kind of the go-to modality and people think about when you do, when you work with kids, they're gonna do some type of play therapy.
• 5:39
  Cathi Spooner: What I've noticed is there's not always a real full understanding of what exactly is play therapy and what sets it apart from maybe pulling out games and toys and art supplies, and using that as a way to help children talk.
• 5:58
  Cathi Spooner: So essentially, really using a traditional talk therapy mindset when you are providing.
• 6:07
  Cathi Spooner: Counseling services to young children and I, I think play therapy is a fundamental mindset shift and most of us in, when we were in graduate school, most of us, we didn't really get any training.
• 6:25
  Cathi Spooner: 'cause most of the graduate school programs don't really.
• 6:30
  Cathi Spooner: Offer any kind of courses about play therapy.
• 6:34
  Cathi Spooner: I would say with the except exception for Julie Julie's program did offer some play therapy course.
• 6:40
  Cathi Spooner: Oh, yours did too.
• 6:41
  Cathi Spooner: As Malia.
• 6:42
  Cathi Spooner: Oh, that's awesome.
• 6:44
  Cathi Spooner: Um, and so really the things that set play therapy apart, and I would, I would be curious what you guys think about this, um, is.
• 6:57
  Cathi Spooner: The way that the Association for Play Therapy defines what is play therapy is that it is a, um, using a theoretical model to access the therapeutic powers of play within the context of a strong therapeutic relationship.
• 7:14
  Cathi Spooner: I think most of us get the relationship piece.
• 7:17
  Cathi Spooner: Um, and the thing that I think is the mindset shift.
• 7:22
  Cathi Spooner: For play therapy is that you're actually using a theoretical model to influence how you're gonna help your clients access the therapeutic powers of play, and that therapeutic model is gonna influence how you make sense of what's going on in the session.
• 7:41
  Cathi Spooner: It's also gonna influence how you show up, so what you say, how you say it, and what you do.
• 7:48
  Cathi Spooner: And what happens at each stage of the play therapy process.
• 7:55
  Cathi Spooner: Is also gonna be influenced by your play therapy specific model.
• 8:00
  Cathi Spooner: Like a lot of people, like Amy talked about a a little bit of an integrative model, meaning I know Amy does child center play therapy and also integrates in EMDR.
• 8:14
  Cathi Spooner: So even when we say we're using an integrative approach, it's still theory based.
• 8:20
  Cathi Spooner: It's still using your theoretical model to guide how you make sense.
• 8:25
  Cathi Spooner: Like EMDR is gonna help you think of, is gonna influence the way you think of what's going on in the session, what you're gonna say, how you're gonna say, and what you're gonna do, versus it's a little different with child-centric play therapy that looks a little bit different.
• 8:42
  Cathi Spooner: So I'm curious for you guys, um, how you would.
• 8:49
  Cathi Spooner: Define play therapy.
• 8:50
  Cathi Spooner: When people ask you about being a play therapist or what play therapy is what, what do you think sets play therapy apart?
• 9:02
  Cathi Spooner: So why don't, we'll start with Julie 'cause she's the OG here and then we'll, yeah.
• 9:09
  Cathi Spooner: I love trying to, to talk to people about play therapy.
• 9:12
  Cathi Spooner: I think a lot of like parents that come in maybe don't know what it is or have heard of it, and so I think it's.
• 9:18
  Cathi Spooner: Basically to start letting them know that the play is a children's language and toys are their words, and just to kind of give them that basic understanding.
• 9:26
  Cathi Spooner: But then it's also important to connect it to how a PT defines play therapy.
• 9:31
  Cathi Spooner: So we're not just like grabbing an idea off of Pinterest, but we're really grounded in like those 10, um, historical and significant theories that a PT defines, and we're allowing those.
• 9:41
  Cathi Spooner: What methods that have been researched for years and evidence-based to guide how we, um, use this meeting of medium of play to, um, have the child process emotions and work through feelings.
• 9:55
  Cathi Spooner: But it, it is, um, important to explain to, to parents because it is different than like an adult and talk therapy.
• 10:01
  Cathi Spooner: So, yeah, I, I think that's.
• 10:04
  Cathi Spooner: A really awesome way of saying it too, the way you kind of broke that down.
• 10:10
  Cathi Spooner: Um, it's just the developmental stage that the kids are at.
• 10:13
  Cathi Spooner: It's, it's really addressing where they are at developmentally.
• 10:17
  Cathi Spooner: So, yeah.
• 10:19
  Cathi Spooner: Yeah, and I think that's an important point as well, that developmental piece.
• 10:24
  Cathi Spooner: Um, Malia, I don't know what, if you had anything to add and.
• 10:30
  Cathi Spooner: I think, um, Julie nailed it by saying that the, the play is their language and the toys are their words.
• 10:37
  Cathi Spooner: Right?
• 10:37
  Cathi Spooner: Like, um, if you were to kind of put that into an adult model, um, that therapist sitting across from an adult is using a model or integrating, but using an evidence-based.
• 10:50
  Cathi Spooner: Model that they learned, um, and are passionate about, most likely, and have done a lot of trainings in Right?
• 10:56
  Cathi Spooner: Like we, we are constantly getting those and um, and they are using that to inform how they're.
• 11:04
  Cathi Spooner: Conducting therapy, it's, it's probably 90% the relationship between the therapist and the client and building that safe space and that sense of trust.
• 11:14
  Cathi Spooner: And then applying the model and, and using that to inform the therapy and making sense of it.
• 11:20
  Cathi Spooner: And interpreting, interpreting it.
• 11:22
  Cathi Spooner: And then with kids, we're still doing that, right?
• 11:26
  Cathi Spooner: Our model is a play therapy model.
• 11:28
  Cathi Spooner: And we are still applying that and interpreting what's happening in the playroom.
• 11:33
  Cathi Spooner: Um.
• 11:34
  Cathi Spooner: You can really see it when we are looking for themes.
• 11:37
  Cathi Spooner: For example, if we're pulling a theme out, what, mm-hmm.
• 11:40
  Cathi Spooner: Was this an aggressive theme?
• 11:41
  Cathi Spooner: Were they showing, you know, were they expressing that in some way or who are the characters?
• 11:47
  Cathi Spooner: Um, and we're careful not to over-interpret, but, but we are looking to extrapolate some of those.
• 11:53
  Cathi Spooner: Those main themes to understand their play.
• 11:57
  Cathi Spooner: Um, but sometimes I just tell people I'm a professional UNO player.
• 12:02
  Cathi Spooner: I love that.
• 12:03
  Cathi Spooner: I always play an uno.
• 12:05
  Cathi Spooner: I think it was yes.
• 12:05
  Cathi Spooner: Or earlier this week.
• 12:08
  Cathi Spooner: Yeah.
• 12:09
  Cathi Spooner: Yeah.
• 12:10
  Cathi Spooner: That's funny.
• 12:11
  Cathi Spooner: Yeah.
• 12:12
  Cathi Spooner: And I, um.
• 12:15
  Cathi Spooner: I, I think that kind of highlights also play therapy is a di is the mindset shift in that we're looking at what's happening in the session to make sense of, like you talked about the play themes.
• 12:29
  Cathi Spooner: That's the way they communicate and then we kind of use our training and and supervision to help us figure out what it is they're communicating.
• 12:42
  Cathi Spooner: 'cause you can get a lot.
• 12:44
  Cathi Spooner: Through just what's going on in the playroom.
• 12:47
  Cathi Spooner: How about you, Amy?
• 12:51
  Cathi Spooner: Oh, so when I'm talking to parents, I think to me play, I mean, play is the language of kids, right?
• 12:58
  Cathi Spooner: But kids innately know how to heal themselves.
• 13:02
  Cathi Spooner: And most often adults get in the way.
• 13:06
  Cathi Spooner: Right.
• 13:06
  Cathi Spooner: And play is the way that kids do it.
• 13:09
  Cathi Spooner: And we just kind of amplify that, right?
• 13:12
  Cathi Spooner: By narrating, by reflecting.
• 13:14
  Cathi Spooner: There's like this gentle guidance, but they kind of already know they'll trauma play and then they will move to Play-Doh and regulate.
• 13:22
  Cathi Spooner: Like it's trusting that they know what they need.
• 13:26
  Cathi Spooner: But guiding them a little bit and as they see that trust or fill that trust, then it it, like they build self-esteem.
• 13:34
  Cathi Spooner: They start to build problem solving skills.
• 13:37
  Cathi Spooner: They're, they can manage their anxiety more.
• 13:40
  Cathi Spooner: All of those things they can play through the trauma.
• 13:42
  Cathi Spooner: And it's because we trust them.
• 13:43
  Cathi Spooner: We trust that they're gonna show us what they need and then we can offer 'em tools once they show us that.
• 13:51
  Cathi Spooner: Spoken like a true child-centered play therapist.
• 13:58
  Cathi Spooner: Trust the child to innately know what needs to happen.
• 14:01
  Cathi Spooner: Right.
• 14:02
  Cathi Spooner: Well said.
• 14:03
  Cathi Spooner: Um, how about you, Heidi?
• 14:07
  Cathi Spooner: I think of parents who would often say, Hey, I need you to go in to their kid and talk to your therapist about what happened at school.
• 14:16
  Cathi Spooner: Yeah.
• 14:16
  Cathi Spooner: Or I need you to talk about this issue that's happening at school.
• 14:19
  Cathi Spooner: And this can be a five-year-old.
• 14:20
  Cathi Spooner: Right.
• 14:22
  Cathi Spooner: And almost always, if you were to try to ask that kid, Hey, your mom wants me to talk about what happened at school, nine times out of 10, they're going to say, I don't remember.
• 14:34
  Cathi Spooner: I don't know.
• 14:35
  Cathi Spooner: Right, and sometimes they do that as avoidance to not talk about it, but a lot of times they do it because they're not fully developed yet with their brain.
• 14:44
  Cathi Spooner: You know, they're not fully rational and logical, yet they don't have the abstract thinking skills to be able to process conversations like adults do.
• 14:53
  Cathi Spooner: But as soon as you get them involved in play over time and building the relationship, you see those skills.
• 15:00
  Cathi Spooner: Develop, you see, um, trauma being, you know, worked through and anxiety, depression worked through, and they just naturally learn how to do that and they don't even realize that they're doing it.
• 15:12
  Cathi Spooner: Most often we do, but they don't.
• 15:16
  Cathi Spooner: Yeah, it's pretty amazing to watch them do that in the session.
• 15:21
  Cathi Spooner: I would, I would say, um.
• 15:25
  Cathi Spooner: Uh, and I think that's, I think you guys all gave a really kind of good understanding of why is play therapy different, you know, like it's, it's a fundamental shift in our thinking about how police, how, how therapy is supposed to work in that.
• 15:52
  Cathi Spooner: The, the association for, I mean, um, well, yes.
• 15:56
  Cathi Spooner: The Association for Play Therapy talks about the therapeutic powers of play.
• 16:02
  Cathi Spooner: The therapeutic powers of play, really focus on play is the vehicle.
• 16:09
  Cathi Spooner: It's the way and which we children heal.
• 16:15
  Cathi Spooner: It's not like talking about, um.
• 16:21
  Cathi Spooner: Talking about, like you were saying, Heidi, go in there and talk about what happened.
• 16:24
  Cathi Spooner: They were like, I don't, I don't know.
• 16:27
  Cathi Spooner: Um, but even I get that with older kids too, I don't know.
• 16:33
  Cathi Spooner: Um, which is, I think a lot of times their way of saying, I don't, I'm not ready.
• 16:38
  Cathi Spooner: But we can use those therapeutic powers of play, of self-expression, indirect teaching, attachment, social skills.
• 16:50
  Cathi Spooner: We can use the therapeutic powers of play to really facilitate the healing.
• 16:55
  Cathi Spooner: They'll do it through the play.
• 16:58
  Cathi Spooner: They don't, and it, I kind of think of it as a way of even like bypassing, um, bypassing the cognitive areas and going right to implicit experiences stored away in the body.
• 17:18
  Cathi Spooner: What do you guys think?
• 17:20
  Cathi Spooner: I don't know, Amy.
• 17:21
  Cathi Spooner: Um, Julie, if you wanted to.
• 17:24
  Cathi Spooner: Add to that.
• 17:25
  Cathi Spooner: Yeah, no, I love how you just said that, how it just bypasses the cognitive it, it is such a deep work.
• 17:31
  Cathi Spooner: It goes right to where the kids need to, where they need to process their emotion.
• 17:36
  Cathi Spooner: Whereas, you know, adults might spend a lot of time like in that cognitive space, talking, talking, talking.
• 17:41
  Cathi Spooner: But kids can just.
• 17:43
  Cathi Spooner: Jump right.
• 17:44
  Cathi Spooner: To do that work and, and get to that, you know, emotional processing of those, those deep feelings.
• 17:50
  Cathi Spooner: So it, it's, it's really amazing to get to watch this process and, and be a part of, be a part of that with the kids.
• 17:57
  Cathi Spooner: Yeah.
• 17:57
  Cathi Spooner: I don't know if any of you guys, I, Amy, Malia or Heidi wanted to add to that.
• 18:11
  Cathi Spooner: I think that, um, like a good example would be, let's say a kid is trying to deal with the death of their family pet in the playroom.
• 18:20
  Cathi Spooner: They would likely, um, play that out by taking care of a stuffed animal, making it all better being the veterinarian, walking the stuffed animal through that process.
• 18:31
  Cathi Spooner: Um, maybe even.
• 18:33
  Cathi Spooner: Um, in their own way saying goodbye.
• 18:36
  Cathi Spooner: Um, you, you, you see the magic happen right in front of you 'cause the parent maybe clued you into what was going on, but then you watch the kid play it out unprompted and you're just like, wow.
• 18:51
  Cathi Spooner: Play therapy really works.
• 18:53
  Cathi Spooner: Yeah.
• 18:55
  Cathi Spooner: So let me ask you guys, I'm curious for you.
• 18:59
  Cathi Spooner: Um, why did you become a play therapist?
• 19:04
  Cathi Spooner: So, I don't know, Heidi.
• 19:05
  Cathi Spooner: Heidi, if you wanna start like what, because becoming a play therapist is not just about going to graduate school and learning counseling, it's really about going through that process.
• 19:18
  Cathi Spooner: Here in the United States, we have the Association for Play Therapy and they have the registered play therapy credential.
• 19:28
  Cathi Spooner: Uh, uh, there are other kind of entity entities outside the US that are doing similar things.
• 19:35
  Cathi Spooner: All of the things they have in common are, there are requirements to do that.
• 19:41
  Cathi Spooner: Like even the association, I keep these nearby.
• 19:46
  Cathi Spooner: These are the, um, competencies to be a play therapist.
• 19:51
  Cathi Spooner: There are three categories.
• 19:53
  Cathi Spooner: Of competencies that you are expected to master.
• 19:58
  Cathi Spooner: So what, what, what would you say is the reason why become a play therapist?
• 20:04
  Cathi Spooner: Why invest that time?
• 20:09
  Cathi Spooner: For me, it sounds cheesy, but I love to learn and I knew that, um, going for an RPT and working towards that would really help me to become kind of an expert in this field and to learn as much as I can about it.
• 20:25
  Cathi Spooner: Um, I love that.
• 20:27
  Cathi Spooner: Play Therapy Academy has a group.
• 20:29
  Cathi Spooner: We're in a group, we consult with each other, we have a supervisor, and we are able to come and bounce ideas off each other and consult with each other about our cases and, you know, difficult situations we deal with.
• 20:42
  Cathi Spooner: I also think that it makes us a little more marketable if we have an RPT.
• 20:48
  Cathi Spooner: Um, it gives us kind of that, that title to people that says, Hey, I know what I'm doing.
• 20:54
  Cathi Spooner: I'm trained, you know, and.
• 20:56
  Cathi Spooner: I think when schools or hospitals or these bigger institutions are looking for referrals for children, I think that makes us more marketable to be able to put ourselves out there.
• 21:07
  Cathi Spooner: Yeah, I think that's a good point.
• 21:08
  Cathi Spooner: Also, like it says, you've accomplished these competencies.
• 21:16
  Cathi Spooner: Yeah.
• 21:16
  Cathi Spooner: Yeah.
• 21:17
  Cathi Spooner: How about you, Amy?
• 21:20
  Cathi Spooner: Yeah, I kind of agree with what Heidi said.
• 21:22
  Cathi Spooner: It's interesting because.
• 21:24
  Cathi Spooner: So many people will say, I do play therapy, and that might mean that they pull out a deck of UNO cards.
• 21:31
  Cathi Spooner: Yeah, it does not necessarily mean.
• 21:34
  Cathi Spooner: That they're trained in play therapy because there's a lot more to it.
• 21:37
  Cathi Spooner: And I lean towards going towards my RPT because as a therapist, my belief is that we should always continually be seeking consultation or supervision, no matter how far we are in our licensing.
• 21:50
  Cathi Spooner: And the RPT programs, actually, I think Julie and I made a joke about it, it's almost worse than your master's program trying to get your RPT, but.
• 22:01
  Cathi Spooner: That says something, right?
• 22:02
  Cathi Spooner: It says something about the knowledge that you gain.
• 22:05
  Cathi Spooner: And I feel the same way about EMDR and combining 'em together.
• 22:08
  Cathi Spooner: Like EMDR has the certification and the ongoing that the model in EMDR is almost the same.
• 22:15
  Cathi Spooner: You should always be seeking supervision and consultation, and I think that that's what makes good therapists.
• 22:22
  Cathi Spooner: And so getting your RPT is just kind of a natural process if you want to be a good play therapist.
• 22:30
  Cathi Spooner: Yeah.
• 22:30
  Cathi Spooner: How about you, Julie?
• 22:34
  Cathi Spooner: Yeah, I, I agree.
• 22:36
  Cathi Spooner: You know, with Heidi and Amy too, I, um, also feel like I'm a lifelong learner.
• 22:41
  Cathi Spooner: And so I feel like that it's important for me to learn from others who have researched and done this for years.
• 22:47
  Cathi Spooner: And so, you know, when I knew I wanted to be a play therapist, I wanted make sure that I, um, you know, had really good training.
• 22:53
  Cathi Spooner: And so the Association for Play Therapy, um, is just.
• 22:56
  Cathi Spooner: Have has provided us this opportunity where we can, um, get, you know, their credential process is really hard.
• 23:03
  Cathi Spooner: Like Amy said, I do feel like I spent as much time on it or more than my, my MFT degree.
• 23:09
  Cathi Spooner: Um, but I feel like, I feel like, um, in order for me to, to, to provide that, um.
• 23:14
  Cathi Spooner: You know, adequate service to families and kids that I need to be adequately trained to.
• 23:18
  Cathi Spooner: And I think it's important for us as professionals to belong to organizations that hold us, you know, kind of accountable and, and to help us provide evidence-based treatment rather, you know, than just.
• 23:28
  Cathi Spooner: Grabbing an idea and, and I also, you know, agree with Heidi that I feel like if I'm a parent and I'm looking for someone to help my child, I am gonna feel a lot, like more, I can trust them if they've earned their registered play therapist credential.
• 23:41
  Cathi Spooner: They've really, you know, been trained a lot and, and so I might, you know, trust them more with my kiddo.
• 23:48
  Cathi Spooner: How about you, Malia?
• 23:50
  Cathi Spooner: Um, I think Amy, you just accidentally coined a new phrase for us.
• 23:54
  Cathi Spooner: The ABCs right.
• 23:56
  Cathi Spooner: Is always be consulting.
• 23:58
  Cathi Spooner: Um, but yeah, those, those are all the same reasons why I'm seeking my to be a registered play therapist and get that legitimacy title.
• 24:08
  Cathi Spooner: But for me it's been more about the journey of that and the learning and, um.
• 24:13
  Cathi Spooner: The con, the consultation group.
• 24:15
  Cathi Spooner: I don't want to stop doing that.
• 24:18
  Cathi Spooner: Um, we don't want you to stop either.
• 24:21
  Cathi Spooner: I know.
• 24:21
  Cathi Spooner: It's so great and you know, like, um, that, that does need to exist in our field, right?
• 24:28
  Cathi Spooner: We could, if the more isolated we are, the worse.
• 24:30
  Cathi Spooner: We get as therapists.
• 24:32
  Cathi Spooner: So the continued learning, um, the applied application or the applied learning by bringing cases to consult with others is just, it's, um, it's great.
• 24:45
  Cathi Spooner: I, in my marriage and family therapy, um, program, we had a therapy class, we had a, um.
• 24:52
  Cathi Spooner: We had a couple of like how to work with children and families and like, uh, obviously the marriage and family therapy.
• 24:58
  Cathi Spooner: I didn't really care for the marriage part.
• 25:01
  Cathi Spooner: Um, in fact, I prefer to work with divorced couples'cause you know, like you can't screw 'em up anymore.
• 25:06
  Cathi Spooner: But, um, only only way to go is up.
• 25:11
  Cathi Spooner: Um, but working with kids is just, I don't know, it's dynamic and it's fun and you don't know what you're gonna get and every hour is different.
• 25:17
  Cathi Spooner: And that just tickles my brain, right?
• 25:20
  Cathi Spooner: Like I just love working with.
• 25:22
  Cathi Spooner: Kids, they're so honest and authentic and they just bring their real selves.
• 25:26
  Cathi Spooner: Um, and, and their walls aren't built yet sometimes.
• 25:30
  Cathi Spooner: Um, and it's just a beautiful process to be part of.
• 25:34
  Cathi Spooner: And I do wanna bring that legitimate, um, training to it and make sure that I'm showing up, um, as best I can for those kids.
• 25:42
  Cathi Spooner: 'cause also we're planting seeds for therapy to be a good experience so that later in life.
• 25:48
  Cathi Spooner: When they need a therapist again, they're, they're like, yeah, that was a good experience.
• 25:53
  Cathi Spooner: I really liked that person.
• 25:56
  Cathi Spooner: Yeah, I remember.
• 25:58
  Cathi Spooner: So, uh, you guys probably know this and I, I've, I've mentioned this on the, um.
• 26:05
  Cathi Spooner: Live streaming podcast episodes.
• 26:07
  Cathi Spooner: In the past, like I got introduced to play therapy, I knew I always wanted to work with kids.
• 26:13
  Cathi Spooner: I was gonna go save the world.
• 26:15
  Cathi Spooner: Like every good little therapist.
• 26:17
  Cathi Spooner: We started out wanting to save the world.
• 26:20
  Cathi Spooner: Um, but I, I remember I always wanted to work with kids and I was a special ed teacher back in the eighties, 1980s.
• 26:29
  Cathi Spooner: And the school psychologists and social worker were doing this play therapy thing.
• 26:34
  Cathi Spooner: And I worked in a, a center, a special education center for children elementary age who had emotional problems.
• 26:43
  Cathi Spooner: So to the extent that they could not be in a, a regular classroom.
• 26:49
  Cathi Spooner: And so, um, anyways, long story short, we did the, that's where I got introduced to it and I saw what.
• 26:59
  Cathi Spooner: Amazing changes.
• 27:02
  Cathi Spooner: Just doing a, a play therapy group with the school psychologist and I with the kids in my classroom.
• 27:08
  Cathi Spooner: There were 12 of 'em and we would do these, uh, act out fairytales based on Bruno Bedel, Himes, the uses of Enchantment, and that was kind of the catalyst that got me going back to grad school.
• 27:22
  Cathi Spooner: I realized I wanted to this, to do this therapy thing.
• 27:26
  Cathi Spooner: Um, and so went back to graduate school and then nobody knew how to do it.
• 27:31
  Cathi Spooner: And I, I just floundered until I finally back in like the 2000, like 2002, 2003.
• 27:40
  Cathi Spooner: I think somebody, 'cause it was like there was no internet around either.
• 27:45
  Cathi Spooner: It was just beginning, so it's not like you could find things and got introduced to it and it made such a difference.
• 27:53
  Cathi Spooner: 'cause I felt like a giant fraud.
• 27:55
  Cathi Spooner: Half the time because I, I wasn't sure what I was doing.
• 28:01
  Cathi Spooner: And typically supervisors, well intentioned, I had some awesome supervisors would just say, well, you know, just pull out a worksheet.
• 28:09
  Cathi Spooner: I hate worksheets.
• 28:11
  Cathi Spooner: I mean, you can, they, they've got their uses.
• 28:14
  Cathi Spooner: But I hate worksheets.
• 28:16
  Cathi Spooner: I think, I think for me, all the things you guys said were like lifelong learning.
• 28:23
  Cathi Spooner: I, I think for me, I wanted the confidence.
• 28:27
  Cathi Spooner: I wanted the confidence to know that what I was doing wasn't gonna do any harm.
• 28:34
  Cathi Spooner: Um, and I just kind of intuitively knew.
• 28:39
  Cathi Spooner: That doing the worksheets wasn't gonna cut it for me.
• 28:45
  Cathi Spooner: 'cause I, I just kind of, and I had seen it too.
• 28:49
  Cathi Spooner: I had experienced it with the school psychologist and so having, starting that process and having a play therapy supervisor and doing the courses for me gave me confidence.
• 29:04
  Cathi Spooner: That like the training gave me the knowledge, but the supervision piece with the consultation gave me the confidence.
• 29:12
  Cathi Spooner: 'cause I remember going every week to my supervisor with a video, like, what am I doing now?
• 29:17
  Cathi Spooner: What am I doing now?
• 29:18
  Cathi Spooner: Like, help, help, help, help.
• 29:20
  Cathi Spooner: Uh, because I felt like such a fraud in the beginning.
• 29:24
  Cathi Spooner: Yeah, it was, it was awful.
• 29:27
  Cathi Spooner: Um, which for me, like we're, we're.
• 29:32
  Cathi Spooner: 20 years later, you know, and just seeing how the play therapy community has flourished and grown, like now people understand what I think most, most places, people understand what that RPT credential means.
• 29:53
  Cathi Spooner: The registered plate therapist credential, which kind of got, led me into.
• 30:00
  Cathi Spooner: Doing the consultation, which I love and I, you know, it's interesting 'cause I was, as you guys are talking, I'm thinking this is what I love.
• 30:09
  Cathi Spooner: About Play Therapy Academy and also my other membership now that's up and running is Play Therapy Elevation Circle.
• 30:15
  Cathi Spooner: We do the same thing.
• 30:17
  Cathi Spooner: What I, I'm listening to you guys 'cause I, I throw out a question and I'm thinking about it a certain way and then you guys all share your insights and I'm thinking, oh my gosh, this is gold because you, there's so much depth, I think that gets added.
• 30:36
  Cathi Spooner: To the discussion, and I find that when we're presenting cases in Play Therapy Academy, like you guys might pre be presenting a case.
• 30:45
  Cathi Spooner: I'll start off like with the case conceptualization component and then, um.
• 30:54
  Cathi Spooner: Then you guys start talking.
• 30:56
  Cathi Spooner: I'm like, oh my gosh, that's gold.
• 30:57
  Cathi Spooner: Oh my gosh, that's such a good point.
• 31:00
  Cathi Spooner: Which gets everybody thinking a little bit more as well.
• 31:04
  Cathi Spooner: So, um, for you guys, what, what is it about Play Therapy Academy that kind of helped you accomplish your skills?
• 31:19
  Cathi Spooner: Um, I, Heidi, if you wanted to go first and we'll do Amy, Julie, and Malia.
• 31:25
  Cathi Spooner: Malia rounds us up.
• 31:28
  Cathi Spooner: Um, like we said earlier, everybody in our group kind of brings.
• 31:32
  Cathi Spooner: New ideas and something different to the table.
• 31:35
  Cathi Spooner: And I think that's extremely helpful.
• 31:37
  Cathi Spooner: So we don't just get stuck in one way of thinking or one way of doing things.
• 31:42
  Cathi Spooner: We're pretty open-minded to each other and we take each other's advice and we apply it a lot.
• 31:48
  Cathi Spooner: Um, and that's been really helpful for me also, Kathy, in this group.
• 31:52
  Cathi Spooner: Challenged me before, you know, I've been stuck on a situation with a parent and not knowing how to handle a situation or a conversation.
• 32:00
  Cathi Spooner: And she will challenge me and she will say, Hey, let's role play this.
• 32:04
  Cathi Spooner: You know, and to actually role play that with someone who knows what they're doing is extremely helpful.
• 32:10
  Cathi Spooner: So, yeah, I think the, the benefit is.
• 32:17
  Cathi Spooner: That anybody who's working on their RPT is doing a combination of group and individual supervision.
• 32:23
  Cathi Spooner: And so when you have a therapist that's working on getting their RPT, you have like eight or 10 therapists.
• 32:30
  Cathi Spooner: I don't think that parents or clients see that, right?
• 32:34
  Cathi Spooner: It's like, Hey, you don't just get me.
• 32:38
  Cathi Spooner: Whenever there's a problem, I'm talking to like eight other people and they're, try this, try this, or I've had experience with this type of client, and so there's just, I, I never walk away from a meeting, a supervision meeting without like learning something really valuable that I can use directly with one of my clients.
• 33:03
  Cathi Spooner: I had to drop down and plug my laptop in because I was like, dang it.
• 33:08
  Cathi Spooner: Like it's in the red zone.
• 33:10
  Cathi Spooner: Yeah.
• 33:11
  Cathi Spooner: So if you guys are watching on the video and you're like, where'd she go?
• 33:15
  Cathi Spooner: Yes, I don't laptop.
• 33:18
  Cathi Spooner: I sent a private message to these guy.
• 33:20
  Cathi Spooner: I. Yeah, so Kathy, I was with you even before you created Play Therapy Academy.
• 33:28
  Cathi Spooner: You know, and I would never be where I am without you.
• 33:31
  Cathi Spooner: I couldn't even have gotten started in play therapy because there was no anyone, no anyone in St. George.
• 33:37
  Cathi Spooner: And so like being able to work with you virtually, it just allowed me to even get started.
• 33:41
  Cathi Spooner: So then when you transitioned our super group or our supervision group, you know, into Play Therapy Academy, I really loved how you had it set up.
• 33:49
  Cathi Spooner: We had like.
• 33:50
  Cathi Spooner: You know, I got to get my, some individual supervision and combined it with this like amazing group and discussions.
• 33:57
  Cathi Spooner: And then you add like the trainings onto it too.
• 34:00
  Cathi Spooner: So that helps work towards those 150 hours that we have to get.
• 34:05
  Cathi Spooner: And it's like kind of one stop shopping.
• 34:07
  Cathi Spooner: It's a, it's a good, it's just such a good resource and it is just this beautiful community.
• 34:12
  Cathi Spooner: You know, I just get to make my play therapy therapist friends and just.
• 34:16
  Cathi Spooner: And just build like these connections and associations so we can continue like to consult.
• 34:20
  Cathi Spooner: And, um, yeah.
• 34:22
  Cathi Spooner: It just, it just really helped me get there.
• 34:24
  Cathi Spooner: It really helped me get to earn my credentials.
• 34:27
  Cathi Spooner: Yeah.
• 34:28
  Cathi Spooner: I, I lo, I love the community part, like I mm-hmm.
• 34:32
  Cathi Spooner: I always hear that from you guys, but I'm like, I love it too.
• 34:35
  Cathi Spooner: Like, I go there, I'm like, oh my gosh, they're so amazing.
• 34:40
  Cathi Spooner: And even people who think, oh, I don't really have much to add, I'm new.
• 34:46
  Cathi Spooner: I've heard pure gold come out, uh, because I think we're an intuitive group.
• 34:52
  Cathi Spooner: And so what I find that I love so much about it is that like your insights add so much to it, and then I'll be thinking about it one way and you guys will like add depth to it.
• 35:10
  Cathi Spooner: To, to make it even better.
• 35:14
  Cathi Spooner: Like, I don't, I don't think individual, I mean, I like individual consultation and I think it's important, but I, I think we don't always, um, understand the value of the group piece.
• 35:32
  Cathi Spooner: And yeah, the group is really where it's at too.
• 35:36
  Cathi Spooner: Um, I've been a part of, it may will be three years, so I feel very lucky, but I'm also on the slow boat to the RPT, right?
• 35:44
  Cathi Spooner: Like, that's okay.
• 35:45
  Cathi Spooner: I slow and steady.
• 35:47
  Cathi Spooner: Steady once road steady.
• 35:48
  Cathi Spooner: Yep.
• 35:49
  Cathi Spooner: I'm a turtle in ways.
• 35:50
  Cathi Spooner: Um, but the group piece is so important, the community building, the learning from each other.
• 35:58
  Cathi Spooner: Um.
• 35:59
  Cathi Spooner: It might not be my turn to present, but I'm always, like Amy said, coming away with something right?
• 36:04
  Cathi Spooner: That I'm like, oh, I can use that.
• 36:06
  Cathi Spooner: Or, um, being inspired.
• 36:09
  Cathi Spooner: Um, and it's the fastest hour and a half of the week and, um.
• 36:14
  Cathi Spooner: And that group really did sh like, got me through some really hard times in my personal life and helped me get, feel grounded in as a professional.
• 36:23
  Cathi Spooner: Um, and how to show up through grief and things that we deal with as adults, right.
• 36:27
  Cathi Spooner: That are hard.
• 36:28
  Cathi Spooner: Um, and knowing that even though that stuff was going on, I still wanted to show up to group.
• 36:33
  Cathi Spooner: And that said a lot to me that I was like, oh, I'm not dreading this.
• 36:36
  Cathi Spooner: I'm actually looking forward to it.
• 36:38
  Cathi Spooner: Um.
• 36:40
  Cathi Spooner: For many reasons, right?
• 36:41
  Cathi Spooner: Like not just the amazing people, and the people have come and gone and our group has changed the dynamics of it, but the heart of it is still the same.
• 36:49
  Cathi Spooner: So I love that your company is called Renewing Hearts because you really do bring your heart.
• 36:55
  Cathi Spooner: To this, this field, and to us as co-pro professionals, right?
• 37:00
  Cathi Spooner: Like you really lift up your peers.
• 37:03
  Cathi Spooner: Um, what is that saying?
• 37:04
  Cathi Spooner: A rising tide lifts all boats.
• 37:05
  Cathi Spooner: And Kathy, you've been the rising tide for us, and I just appreciate that so much.
• 37:10
  Cathi Spooner: That is nice.
• 37:12
  Cathi Spooner: Yeah.
• 37:13
  Cathi Spooner: Well, Malia, why don't you tell us a little bit, like if people are interested in connecting with you or finding out more about what you're doing.
• 37:24
  Cathi Spooner: I am, you know, not as tech savvy as you are, maybe, or I don't have a, a virtual assistant.
• 37:30
  Cathi Spooner: You're so funny.
• 37:31
  Cathi Spooner: That's why I have amazing virtual assistant.
• 37:34
  Cathi Spooner: I have my own Instagram, but it's just for my dogs.
• 37:37
  Cathi Spooner: Um, but our website is as send cw.com.
• 37:41
  Cathi Spooner: So that's an easy way to find the profile.
• 37:44
  Cathi Spooner: There's always psychology today.
• 37:46
  Cathi Spooner: Um.
• 37:47
  Cathi Spooner: I am a big Seattle Seahawks fan, so if you, if you see that this week, we're in Super Bowl.
• 37:52
  Cathi Spooner: Um, so maybe I wouldn't get back to you this week, but, um, uh, I don't know.
• 37:57
  Cathi Spooner: I'm pretty easy to find on the internet, I guess.
• 37:59
  Cathi Spooner: But, uh, but our, our website@thencw.com has all of our clinics listed and kids and teens is obviously one of them.
• 38:08
  Cathi Spooner: Um, but I don't have my own LinkedIn.
• 38:10
  Cathi Spooner: I don't, I have an Instagram for my dogs and that's, I'm pretty boring.
• 38:14
  Cathi Spooner: So.
• 38:15
  Cathi Spooner: So website and Psychology today?
• 38:18
  Cathi Spooner: It is, yes.
• 38:19
  Cathi Spooner: Yeah, sorry.
• 38:20
  Cathi Spooner: I dunno.
• 38:20
  Cathi Spooner: I wouldn't have social media if I didn't have to do it for renewing Heartstring.
• 38:27
  Cathi Spooner: I feel like it's a lot of work.
• 38:30
  Cathi Spooner: Yeah.
• 38:31
  Cathi Spooner: How about you, Julie?
• 38:35
  Cathi Spooner: Yeah.
• 38:35
  Cathi Spooner: You can find me on Psychology today@ascendcw.com and on Facebook.
• 38:42
  Cathi Spooner: Mm-hmm.
• 38:42
  Cathi Spooner: Awesome.
• 38:44
  Cathi Spooner: And then Heidi and then Amy.
• 38:48
  Cathi Spooner: I am also on Psychology Today, or you can find me at contact@redsandpsychiatry.com.
• 38:55
  Cathi Spooner: Or you can just Google my name and you can find me that way.
• 39:03
  Cathi Spooner: Yeah, same Psychology Today, red 10, psychiatry.
• 39:06
  Cathi Spooner: Um, either of those we're there.
• 39:10
  Cathi Spooner: Awesome.
• 39:11
  Cathi Spooner: Yeah.
• 39:13
  Cathi Spooner: Um, so, and for those of you who might be interested in play Therapy Academy, I do have some openings right now.
• 39:22
  Cathi Spooner: Um, so you can pop over to my website at RH Play Therapy Training.
• 39:30
  Cathi Spooner: Dot com.
• 39:31
  Cathi Spooner: That's renewing Hearts Play Therapy Training.
• 39:34
  Cathi Spooner: Pop over to the supervision page.
• 39:37
  Cathi Spooner: You'll see Play Therapy Academy.
• 39:40
  Cathi Spooner: My other membership is Play Therapy Elevation Circle.
• 39:45
  Cathi Spooner: That one does not get you the RPT credentialed, but it does get you the support.
• 39:51
  Cathi Spooner: Um, it's just not as intensive as Play Therapy Academy, but we do do the consultation and the support in there.
• 40:00
  Cathi Spooner: That one enrollment for that one's closed right now.
• 40:03
  Cathi Spooner: If you are interested in Play Therapy Academy, go ahead and schedule the 30 minute video with, uh, video call with me, and then we can make sure it's a good fit because maybe Elevation Circle is a better fit.
• 40:15
  Cathi Spooner: Um, but either way, go ahead and schedule the 30 minute video call with me and we can see if that works out.
• 40:24
  Cathi Spooner: And I will see you guys for next week's episode.
• 40:31
  Cathi Spooner: All right.
• 40:32
  Cathi Spooner: Bye everyone.
• 40:35
  Cathi Spooner: Thank you for joining me on this episode of Next Level Play Therapy.
• 40:40
  Cathi Spooner: I hope you found the discussion valuable and gain new insights and ideas to support your work helping children, adolescents, and families heal.
• 40:49
  Cathi Spooner: If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe to the podcast and leave a review.
• 40:55
  Cathi Spooner: Your feedback helps to improve and reach more people who can benefit from this information.
• 41:01
  Cathi Spooner: Remember.
• 41:02
  Cathi Spooner: Play therapy is a powerful tool for healing and growth.
• 41:05
  Cathi Spooner: Whether you're a new play therapist or experienced, I encourage you to continue your learning journey to unlock the potential of play in your own work in relationships.
• 41:17
  Cathi Spooner: If you have any questions or topics, suggestions for future.
• 41:22
  Cathi Spooner: I'd love to hear from you.
• 41:24
  Cathi Spooner: Connect with me on social media and visit my website at Renewing Hearts Play Therapy Training to stay updated on upcoming episodes, trainings, and resources.
• 41:36
  Cathi Spooner: Thank you once again for listening to Next Level Play Therapy.
• 41:40
  Cathi Spooner: Until next time, keep playing, learning and growing.