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Riley O'Brien Questions, a Catchers Platoon, Lars Nootbaar's Return · Cardinal Territory: A St. Louis Cardinals Podcast

• 0:07
  Speaker 1: Hello everybody, and welcome to another edition of Cardinal Territory.
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: Jim Hayes with you, and today we have a media
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: show and we have two very good media guys with us,
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: Lynn Worthy of the Post Dispatch Matt Poley of KMOX Radio. Gentleman, welcome.
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: I wanted to start with last night's game, and it
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: was a rough one for the Cardinals. It had some
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: things in it that weren't great, like I don't know,
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: like a wild pits to maybe should have been blocked,
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: or a sacrifice bunt it was a pop up, but
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: it went off the rails lay in the game and
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: the closer Riley O'Brien, who's been lights out right. I
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: mean he's been We've seen some really good numbers from him,
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: but he's kind of in a downward trend. Gentlemen, I
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: want to get your thoughts on where the Cardinals are
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: with their closure situation. We all know O'Brien has great stuff,
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: he's hit some rough waters, Limb, Where are the Cardinals
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: and where are you with O'Brien.
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: Well, I'm not totally out on him yet.
• 1:19
  Speaker 3: I mean I feel like you you give him another
• 1:21
  Speaker 3: chance at least to try and straighten things out. I
• 1:26
  Speaker 3: do think it's interesting though, that, you know, how differently
• 1:28
  Speaker 3: would we look at him in his situation if you know,
• 1:32
  Speaker 3: Nathan Church doesn't make that that catch to save the game,
• 1:35
  Speaker 3: and was that Pittsburgh I think, because then you know,
• 1:39
  Speaker 3: at that point in Tom he might have been going,
• 1:40
  Speaker 3: oh wait a minute, is there an issue then? But
• 1:43
  Speaker 3: it just goes to show how small some of these
• 1:45
  Speaker 3: margins are. And but I'm not out on him yet.
• 1:48
  Speaker 3: I think that's one of those deals where you can
• 1:49
  Speaker 3: still work with him, get him back on track. If
• 1:52
  Speaker 3: he has another couple outings that look pretty good, nobody's
• 1:54
  Speaker 3: worried about it.
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: So if you look at the numbers, Matt March O'Brien
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: one point one in May six and we've seen control
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: be an issue for him, and the stealth that is
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: electric seems to be a little less electric of late,
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: and guys are making some contact. Where are you with
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: O'Brien right now?
• 2:19
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm a little bit concerned. I'd be lying if
• 2:21
  Speaker 4: I didn't say that. And you know, the sinker, the
• 2:23
  Speaker 4: vertical drop on the sinker has lost a couple of
• 2:25
  Speaker 4: inches here recently, and that's a concern. So this is
• 2:29
  Speaker 4: not just a random thing that happens to relief pitchers.
• 2:32
  Speaker 4: There are some things that you can identify that are
• 2:36
  Speaker 4: that are wrong, that are not.
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: Quite going right.
• 2:38
  Speaker 5: Uh.
• 2:38
  Speaker 4: For O'Brien, when he's at his best, he's clearly the
• 2:41
  Speaker 4: best option, uh in the ninth inning. And I'm like Lynn,
• 2:44
  Speaker 4: like I'm not, I'm not sitting here ready to take
• 2:46
  Speaker 4: that away from him yet, but it's it's it's noticeable.
• 2:50
  Speaker 4: It's alarming that he has not been able to be
• 2:52
  Speaker 4: as effective lately after he had the great start, and
• 2:55
  Speaker 4: hopefully Dusty Blake and his group is able to get
• 2:58
  Speaker 4: in there and help him with some things. Because the
• 3:00
  Speaker 4: other side of it, I don't really know what your
• 3:02
  Speaker 4: other options are. You really don't want to use Jojo
• 3:04
  Speaker 4: Vermero in that spot because he's a lefty. You know,
• 3:07
  Speaker 4: the fact that Matt Sponson isn't on this team and
• 3:09
  Speaker 4: hasn't been effective. I know, I'll probably get more into
• 3:11
  Speaker 4: it later, but when it I think, you know, not
• 3:13
  Speaker 4: to use last year's term, but O'Brien's probably going to
• 3:16
  Speaker 4: have a little bit more runway, if for more of
• 3:18
  Speaker 4: the reason because the way this roster is put together,
• 3:22
  Speaker 4: you almost really need him to be that ninth and
• 3:24
  Speaker 4: any guy.
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: That's true. But if we are looking at other options,
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: when a guy who could be in the mix is
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: a guy we saw last night who's been really, really impressive, Sriana,
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: what are your thoughts on him?
• 3:39
  Speaker 3: I mean it's tempting at the same time, you know,
• 3:42
  Speaker 3: I feel like it's you still want to give him
• 3:44
  Speaker 3: maybe just spoonfeeded to him, don't don't just throw him
• 3:48
  Speaker 3: in there. And I know they've been increasing the leverage situations.
• 3:52
  Speaker 3: I'm just not sure that I'm ready to go there yet.
• 3:54
  Speaker 3: But at the same time, if O'Brien continues to struggle,
• 3:58
  Speaker 3: if they can't get that sinker back where it needs
• 4:01
  Speaker 3: to be, if you know, because I I also, like
• 4:04
  Speaker 3: I said, I'm not out on him completely. At the
• 4:05
  Speaker 3: same time, if you've got a young team and you're
• 4:09
  Speaker 3: blowing games late and it becomes a thing where you
• 4:12
  Speaker 3: get to the late innings expect it to go sideways,
• 4:14
  Speaker 3: then that can take a season. So you can't let
• 4:16
  Speaker 3: that happen. So you said you've got to you gotta
• 4:18
  Speaker 3: walk a tight rope here.
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, go ahead.
• 4:24
  Speaker 4: I'll just say I follow up on that. I do
• 4:27
  Speaker 4: think he is probably that if you do move on
• 4:30
  Speaker 4: for O'Brien, he makes the most sense to be that
• 4:32
  Speaker 4: next guy. And I'm with Lynn totally. I think the
• 4:35
  Speaker 4: way he turned it and say, you know, it's spoon
• 4:36
  Speaker 4: feeding him. That's a really good way to say it,
• 4:38
  Speaker 4: because this is somebody who he had a really high
• 4:41
  Speaker 4: e RA in the last few years and he is
• 4:43
  Speaker 4: just finding effectiveness at the major league level for the
• 4:45
  Speaker 4: first time in his career and he's a third into
• 4:47
  Speaker 4: a major league season doing that. But if they are
• 4:50
  Speaker 4: forced in that situation, he does make the most sense.
• 4:53
  Speaker 4: It keeps from Marrow in that lefty lane as as
• 4:56
  Speaker 4: you want to have him in that spot. So was
• 4:59
  Speaker 4: outing two days ago, was was dominant. I mean the
• 5:02
  Speaker 4: things he's doing, the way he's able to work around trouble.
• 5:04
  Speaker 4: It's he's getting better as this year is going along.
• 5:07
  Speaker 4: And when he is out there he looks like a closer.
• 5:10
  Speaker 4: He's just not doing it in the ninth inning. And
• 5:12
  Speaker 4: so I think the point is well received.
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: I agree with you. His poise looks great. I mean
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: the way he composes himself on the mound, he does
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: look like a guy who no moment is too big
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: for him. Getting back to O'Brien, though, Lynn, I agree
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: with your point that I don't think it's time to
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: pull the plug on that. But as Matt mentions, we
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: are a third of the way into the season, and
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: you know, guys get worn out, and O'Brien hasn't in
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: his career been able to sustain, you know, a lot
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: of innings. And I just wonder how much of it
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: is a guy who's trying to get trying to get
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: adjusted to throwing a lot of innings that maybe he's
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: not accustomed to.
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: And that's that's a good point.
• 5:55
  Speaker 3: I mean, I think last night and even the post
• 5:58
  Speaker 3: game show, I think al Hebroski mentioned the numbers about
• 6:02
  Speaker 3: how he looks when he gets more than fifteen pitches
• 6:05
  Speaker 3: into an outing and how the numbers against him go up.
• 6:07
  Speaker 3: So I mean, I think there might be something to that,
• 6:10
  Speaker 3: because you know, when you say, okay after fifteen pitches, well, what's.
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: The common denominator there?
• 6:15
  Speaker 3: Well, maybe he's just he hasn't pitched this much this often,
• 6:17
  Speaker 3: he hasn't stayed healthy this long, and so maybe fatigue
• 6:20
  Speaker 3: starts to set in when he has longer outings, and
• 6:22
  Speaker 3: that's part of what we're seeing.
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: Matt. I want to bring up the catching situation, so
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: they brought up Crooks. Poso went down. We all love Poso,
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: but now they got three guys who can handle the
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: catching duties. I think each guy has good pluses, you know,
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: on his side. Is this a good thing, though, to
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: mix and match three guys who are looking for playing
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: time when the goal is to give Crooks by time
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: catching and also time to try to boost the offense
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: and in terms of that bats, I.
• 6:57
  Speaker 4: Don't know if it's a good thing, But I don't
• 6:58
  Speaker 4: know if you have any other options. Just the fact
• 7:00
  Speaker 4: that Herrera DH is when he is not catching. In
• 7:04
  Speaker 4: a perfect world, you're carrying a third catcher because if
• 7:06
  Speaker 4: you lose a guy in that situation, you don't want
• 7:09
  Speaker 4: to absolve the DH and have Herrera go back behind
• 7:11
  Speaker 4: the plate. Now. Is at the end of the world
• 7:13
  Speaker 4: if you if that happens a single game and Herrara
• 7:16
  Speaker 4: has to come catch and you've got the pitcher hitting
• 7:18
  Speaker 4: for a handful of innings, is that a good enough
• 7:21
  Speaker 4: reason to keep that roster with three catchers. We can
• 7:25
  Speaker 4: argue that either way. But I do think in a
• 7:26
  Speaker 4: perfect world, because Herrara DH is so much, carrying three
• 7:30
  Speaker 4: catchers makes the most sense, it seems like Pahes is
• 7:33
  Speaker 4: going to be the guy who has the least amount
• 7:35
  Speaker 4: of playing time. They're very comfortable with Herrera catching two
• 7:39
  Speaker 4: times through. You have to give Crooks as much playing
• 7:42
  Speaker 4: time as you possibly can give him. He's a young
• 7:44
  Speaker 4: guy who's still developing. I think a lot of people
• 7:46
  Speaker 4: are excited about what it might look like for him
• 7:49
  Speaker 4: moving forward. And you know, Paz doesn't block the pitch
• 7:53
  Speaker 4: last night. His receiving this year has been okay. He's
• 7:57
  Speaker 4: a really great game caller, one of the best in
• 8:00
  Speaker 4: all of baseball at throwing runners out. We know that
• 8:04
  Speaker 4: the pictures are really really comfortable with him back there.
• 8:06
  Speaker 4: But I'm I'm very curious, and I'm very intrigued, not
• 8:09
  Speaker 4: just for this year, but for the future of the
• 8:10
  Speaker 4: organization to see what it's going to look like with
• 8:12
  Speaker 4: Crooks getting more and more time. He had a good
• 8:14
  Speaker 4: offensive game in the game last night, too, So yeah,
• 8:18
  Speaker 4: I don't I think there's a lot of things about
• 8:20
  Speaker 4: this roster, and this has been true over the last
• 8:22
  Speaker 4: couple of years, that maybe isn't a best case scenario.
• 8:24
  Speaker 4: But I understand. I totally understand why they have to
• 8:27
  Speaker 4: carry the three catchers in the situation that they're in right.
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: Now, and they got a couple of good catchers in
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: the miners too, that they're probably keeping a very close
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: eye on. Let me let me throw this out there
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: for you, because I like Piz. I think he does
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: a good job behind the plate. And if you're on
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: social media like you are, I know Matt's on there too.
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: People want to bury Poz. To me, the reason why
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: we've seen Piz behind the plate is because pitchers want
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: him there. The pictures like it when Paz is behind
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: the plate. Your thoughts on what he brings to the team.
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: I know there are metrics that say he's not the
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: best behind the plate. Outside he's got a good throwing arm,
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: but give me something in defensive because I like that guy.
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 9:10
  Speaker 3: I think there's definitely pitchers you know, they trust him,
• 9:13
  Speaker 3: you know, whether it's the metrics, whether it's you know,
• 9:16
  Speaker 3: you can look at all the numbers, but I think
• 9:18
  Speaker 3: that there's you know, the unquantifiable thing is the is
• 9:21
  Speaker 3: when you hear guys like Matthew Libbers who talk about
• 9:24
  Speaker 3: how much they trust him, how much he helps them,
• 9:27
  Speaker 3: you know, navigate lineups, how much he helps them with
• 9:29
  Speaker 3: their game, plan or adjusting on the fly. I think
• 9:32
  Speaker 3: that's not something that you can put an exact number
• 9:34
  Speaker 3: on and say this is how much that you know
• 9:37
  Speaker 3: that that helps them. So I think there's definitely a
• 9:41
  Speaker 3: big trust factor. But the other thing, you know, going
• 9:44
  Speaker 3: back to what Matt was saying, and I'll throw probably
• 9:46
  Speaker 3: an unpopular opinion, but I think part of the reason
• 9:49
  Speaker 3: that there's this you have to have the three catchers
• 9:51
  Speaker 3: has as much to do with Crooks as it has
• 9:54
  Speaker 3: to do with Herrera. And the reason I say that
• 9:56
  Speaker 3: is because if you look at Crooks's numbers, and I
• 9:58
  Speaker 3: know everybody looks at his home and you know how
• 10:01
  Speaker 3: much he slugged down a triple A, he struggled against
• 10:04
  Speaker 3: left handed pitching, and people just sort of, you know,
• 10:07
  Speaker 3: blow that off as though it didn't happen. But no,
• 10:09
  Speaker 3: I mean, I mean, I think at one point it
• 10:11
  Speaker 3: was you know, he was striking out about half the
• 10:13
  Speaker 3: time he faced the lefty, and so he's not going
• 10:16
  Speaker 3: to be able to be in the lineup every time
• 10:17
  Speaker 3: that you have a left handed starting pitcher. It was
• 10:20
  Speaker 3: interesting last night that they kept him in there to
• 10:22
  Speaker 3: face a lefty reliever. And I think as you look
• 10:24
  Speaker 3: at the numbers. Part of that was because they picked
• 10:26
  Speaker 3: the spot for that that left handed reliever didn't have
• 10:29
  Speaker 3: a high strikeout numbers, and I think this year he's
• 10:32
  Speaker 3: actually done worse against lefties than righty So that's the
• 10:34
  Speaker 3: spot that you picked to give him that. But on
• 10:37
  Speaker 3: a regular basis, he struggles.
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: He's going to be.
• 10:39
  Speaker 3: Striking out about half the time if you based off
• 10:41
  Speaker 3: what he did against Triple A pitchers, and these guys
• 10:44
  Speaker 3: aren't gonna be worse.
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: The lefties face here aren't gonna be worse.
• 10:46
  Speaker 3: So I think because you're gonna have to get to
• 10:48
  Speaker 3: the points in the game where you know you're gonna
• 10:50
  Speaker 3: have to pull him out and probably go to Velasquez,
• 10:54
  Speaker 3: that's when you know that you're gonna have to go.
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: Pie has to finish up the game.
• 10:57
  Speaker 3: So I think that's part of the reason that you
• 10:59
  Speaker 3: have to have that third catcher, as much as the
• 11:01
  Speaker 3: fact that you know Herrero is going to be dhing
• 11:03
  Speaker 3: on a regular basis and they don't want him to
• 11:05
  Speaker 3: catch more than twice a week.
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: So Matt if this is a season where everyone gets
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: run away and you want to see what a guy
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: is made of at the major league level, and you
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: want to see what Crooks is. You got to give
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: him opportunities in those situations, even if the reliever has
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: reverse split splits. I get I get that and everything.
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: But in terms of Crooks defensively, everyone says made improvements
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: behind the plate as a backstop in the minors. I
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: want to see what this guy can do. That's what
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: I wonder. With the three catchers, I'd like to see
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: what Crooks can do, but probably isn't a great fit
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: for that.
• 11:39
  Speaker 4: Maybe I'm wrong, Yeah, I think you have to see
• 11:46
  Speaker 4: because you mentioned the guys who are on the way
• 11:47
  Speaker 4: as well. Bernal is at Triple A. Rodriguez and we'll
• 11:50
  Speaker 4: see if he ends up being a catcher at the
• 11:51
  Speaker 4: big league level or not. But Rodriguez is at Double A.
• 11:55
  Speaker 4: So there is a there is a window right now
• 11:59
  Speaker 4: where you can have Jimmy Crooks on this roster and
• 12:02
  Speaker 4: also still have a von Herrera and Pedro hot Pahes
• 12:07
  Speaker 4: all on the same roster catching At some point for
• 12:09
  Speaker 4: an All's going to push some stuff on there. You
• 12:11
  Speaker 4: need to know what you have in Jimmy Crooks in
• 12:13
  Speaker 4: that time. That's one of the arguments that I was
• 12:14
  Speaker 4: making when the season got started. Of why if there
• 12:18
  Speaker 4: would have been a way to find a way to
• 12:20
  Speaker 4: get Crooks onto the roster to start the season. I
• 12:22
  Speaker 4: thought it made sense, just because I think you need
• 12:24
  Speaker 4: to take that opportunity to see what he looks like
• 12:27
  Speaker 4: with everybody moving forward. It's a little bit clunky, but
• 12:30
  Speaker 4: there's a lot of parts about this roster that are
• 12:32
  Speaker 4: a little bit clunky. It's been that way for a
• 12:34
  Speaker 4: couple of years. That's the team is what they are.
• 12:37
  Speaker 4: They're in this period that they're in. It's great that
• 12:39
  Speaker 4: they're continuing to play better than anybody expected them to,
• 12:43
  Speaker 4: and maybe the roster will look less clunky if they
• 12:47
  Speaker 4: continue to play this way and all of a sudden,
• 12:49
  Speaker 4: what they do this year becomes a big key for
• 12:52
  Speaker 4: the organization. But I don't know, I can deal with
• 12:54
  Speaker 4: a little bit of clunkiness if it means that you
• 12:57
  Speaker 4: get to see Crooks right now. I think that's better
• 12:59
  Speaker 4: for the organization that him being a triple A.
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: He got to embrace the clunkiness. I'm with you, all right,
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: Let's talk about Nolan Gorman, all right. So there's another
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: guy that they're going to make some space for and
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: take a long look, and they have to this point.
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: Hit a homer last night, but the numbers are not
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: where Gorman I think would like them to be. He's
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: a guy that's following the process. You ever talked to him,
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: He is a process. He wants to get barrels, you know,
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: get barrels, barrels, barrels, and not worry about gaming and
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: game out. So where is Nolan Gorman right now? Because
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: the Cardinals are looking at the numbers too, and it
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: hasn't been great. So what are your thoughts on him?
• 13:40
  Speaker 3: When I think he's he's in that spot where he
• 13:44
  Speaker 3: needs to show. He needs to show something that that
• 13:48
  Speaker 3: that keeps them giving him opportunities. I mean, I know
• 13:51
  Speaker 3: always said that, you know, they're going to keep giving
• 13:53
  Speaker 3: it him opportunity at least at this point. But he's
• 13:57
  Speaker 3: gonna have to show, you know, if they, like he
• 13:58
  Speaker 3: did last night, reasons for them or he's going to
• 14:01
  Speaker 3: give them, have to give them reasons to keep running
• 14:03
  Speaker 3: him out there. And I think he even though they
• 14:07
  Speaker 3: said they're going to give him opportunity, I think some
• 14:09
  Speaker 3: of those opportunities are going to be a little more
• 14:11
  Speaker 3: spotty because I think similar to crooks, you know, like
• 14:15
  Speaker 3: at the and with the way the bottom of the
• 14:17
  Speaker 3: lineup has been recently, I think you're going to see
• 14:20
  Speaker 3: a lot more mixing and matching. And so that means
• 14:22
  Speaker 3: if Gorman is the one that they decide to pull
• 14:25
  Speaker 3: because that's the spot where the matchup isn't good, or
• 14:28
  Speaker 3: they're looking for a spot to put in the right
• 14:30
  Speaker 3: handed that until he proves that he needs to have
• 14:33
  Speaker 3: every one of those at bats, then they might go
• 14:35
  Speaker 3: to him, or you know, sometimes it'll be Crooks, sometimes
• 14:38
  Speaker 3: it might be him. I think the last third of
• 14:40
  Speaker 3: the lineup is going to be or at least the
• 14:42
  Speaker 3: bottom half of the line is going to be mixing
• 14:44
  Speaker 3: match as you get to the late innings for at
• 14:46
  Speaker 3: least for a while now, because I don't think they
• 14:48
  Speaker 3: have a solid lineup that you can just run out
• 14:50
  Speaker 3: there and then, you know, just give guys at beasts regardless.
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: So I think he's in that category. I think Crooks,
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: I think.
• 14:57
  Speaker 3: You know, and it'll be interesting as we get, you know,
• 15:00
  Speaker 3: another week into it, and you start seeing some roster changes,
• 15:03
  Speaker 3: some guys coming back who's actually still here. But I
• 15:05
  Speaker 3: think you're almost in a little bit of a Hunger
• 15:08
  Speaker 3: Games moment here where some guy's gonna to prove some
• 15:10
  Speaker 3: things or they're gonna see their time diminish the other
• 15:12
  Speaker 3: guys step in, So that.
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: Bottom third of the lineup, at the bottom half of
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: the lineup has kind of been dry offensively and it
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: has hurt the team, at least in the recent stretch.
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: Matt warn't you with Gorman? How much time do you
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: think he has to show them something or are they
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: going to stay the course. Let's be honest. The guy
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: has unbelievable power he's shown at the major league level.
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: To me, he's gonna end up being a guy who
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: may hit two thirty, but it's gonna give you twenty
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: eight homers at some point, probably not there yet. How
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: much time do you think he gets here?
• 15:47
  Speaker 4: If you can get that version of him, that's great.
• 15:49
  Speaker 4: I mean, that's fantastic. And he is somebody that if
• 15:52
  Speaker 4: he ever put it all the way together, I mean,
• 15:54
  Speaker 4: we're talking about somebody who has forty home run potential.
• 15:56
  Speaker 4: He's not anywhere close to that. I think most people
• 15:59
  Speaker 4: take twenty five thirty and be very comfortable with that,
• 16:01
  Speaker 4: even with uh not a great batting average and certainly
• 16:05
  Speaker 4: a lot of strikeouts. Just he's crossed a line here
• 16:08
  Speaker 4: over the last few weeks of it's it's just simply
• 16:11
  Speaker 4: not good enough. The strikeouts are way too much. He's
• 16:13
  Speaker 4: not getting on base. That home run though yesterday is
• 16:15
  Speaker 4: a great example. That's a that's not a that's not
• 16:19
  Speaker 4: a classic pool home run. He just took it the
• 16:21
  Speaker 4: other way, made some solid contact. You know, the launch
• 16:24
  Speaker 4: angle was like thirty percent on it, so it wasn't
• 16:27
  Speaker 4: even it wasn't that wasn't especially good and it still
• 16:30
  Speaker 4: gets out. So when he can make some solid contact,
• 16:33
  Speaker 4: he's gonna hit the ball hard, and he's got the
• 16:34
  Speaker 4: ability to hit home runs. He's got the ability to
• 16:37
  Speaker 4: put it down into the gap and and get doubles.
• 16:40
  Speaker 4: I understand what they're doing. I don't think you have
• 16:42
  Speaker 4: much of another option right now. That's that's part of
• 16:45
  Speaker 4: the issue here. Could be play Jose for mean a
• 16:47
  Speaker 4: little bit more at third base. I guess when Ramona
• 16:50
  Speaker 4: Reas is back, could you start platooning Gorman and Arius
• 16:55
  Speaker 4: that That seems like saying that's somewhat plausible, But we're
• 16:57
  Speaker 4: still a ways out from Areas being back at you're
• 17:00
  Speaker 4: talking about his rehab assignment probably starting at some point
• 17:03
  Speaker 4: this upcoming weekend. So yeah, he's got that rope and
• 17:07
  Speaker 4: they're going to continue to run him out there every day.
• 17:09
  Speaker 4: You you know, Cardinals fans are hopeful that maybe that
• 17:12
  Speaker 4: home run unlock something and that's the beginning of something
• 17:15
  Speaker 4: for him. But I just I don't know what the
• 17:17
  Speaker 4: other option is right now for this team in terms
• 17:20
  Speaker 4: of if you don't want to play Gorman, I don't
• 17:23
  Speaker 4: know what you consistently go with, uh, with with you know,
• 17:26
  Speaker 4: with with somebody else.
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: I hope that's the starting point for him because when
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: he's crushing baseballs, it's a lot of fun. We know
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: what's in there. I hope he can stay the course
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: and straighten things out. We're going to take a quick
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: break here. You're watching Cardinal Territory on the Foul Territory Network.
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• 18:43
  Speaker 1: So Mason Wins a Texas guy, and he had great
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: success against Houston when they were visiting, the Astros having
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: a great series against the Rangers, so apparently he likes
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: to destroy anything that has anything to do with Texas.
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: But last night Lane, we saw him with a couple
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: of hits also two really good defensive plays. He's a
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: gold Glover. I think he's just really stratching the service
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: of what he's going to be because I think he
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: can do that every year. But how much fun is
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: it watching Mason Win do his thing just from a
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: defensive standpoint.
• 19:18
  Speaker 3: He changes the game defensively, and it's you know, sometimes
• 19:23
  Speaker 3: it sounds cliche. Sometimes it's hard to really you know,
• 19:26
  Speaker 3: say a guy changes the game defensively because it's like, okay,
• 19:29
  Speaker 3: well you don't see what that play would have been
• 19:32
  Speaker 3: if somebody else was in there. But there are multiple plays,
• 19:34
  Speaker 3: it seems like almost every night that you say, if
• 19:38
  Speaker 3: somebody else is at that spot, that play doesn't get made,
• 19:40
  Speaker 3: and then it changes not just that play, but the
• 19:43
  Speaker 3: rest of the inning and the outing for a pitcher.
• 19:46
  Speaker 3: And so that's the type of impact that he has,
• 19:48
  Speaker 3: you know, regularly, and you almost take it for granted
• 19:50
  Speaker 3: because he plays as much as he does and you
• 19:52
  Speaker 3: don't see what that looks like. And I think, you know,
• 19:54
  Speaker 3: earlier this year to remember, I think it was there
• 19:57
  Speaker 3: was a couple of games where you had, like you know,
• 19:59
  Speaker 3: Prieto other people in there, and I think you did
• 20:01
  Speaker 3: see it then where there's a you know, a ball
• 20:05
  Speaker 3: hit that doesn't get turned into a double player, doesn't
• 20:07
  Speaker 3: get turned into an out, and that changes an inning
• 20:09
  Speaker 3: for you know, an inning for a pitcher and outing
• 20:12
  Speaker 3: for a pitcher. So I think it's you know, it
• 20:14
  Speaker 3: almost because you've seen it as much as you have now,
• 20:16
  Speaker 3: it almost goes, you know, unnoticed, or I shouldn't sayun noticed,
• 20:21
  Speaker 3: but you take it for granted.
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: But it it's every night.
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: And you see him and JJ I think Burrows is
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: gonna end up with a gold Glove at first base?
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: Does he scoops everything? But how important is that Matt
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: to the Cardinals defensively to have two young, really good
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: defensive players at short and second up the middle?
• 20:45
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it's it's super important. And when what we saw
• 20:49
  Speaker 4: from win yesterday with those two defensive plays that you mentioned,
• 20:52
  Speaker 4: that's classic Mason win. And he hasn't been quite as
• 20:55
  Speaker 4: strong defensively this year. He's already committed more areas this
• 20:58
  Speaker 4: year than he had all last year. You could never
• 20:59
  Speaker 4: expect and repeat what he did last year, which was
• 21:02
  Speaker 4: just incredible. But as I'm watching that game last night,
• 21:05
  Speaker 4: I'm thinking to myself, he looks just as good as
• 21:09
  Speaker 4: he looked at any point last year when he won
• 21:11
  Speaker 4: the gold Glove. It is such a difference making thing
• 21:13
  Speaker 4: to be able to have him there, and if the
• 21:16
  Speaker 4: offense can come along with it just a little bit,
• 21:19
  Speaker 4: he is a guy that can lengthen out the lineup,
• 21:22
  Speaker 4: and we know that he's got We've seen him go
• 21:24
  Speaker 4: through months offensively that are really really good, and then
• 21:27
  Speaker 4: he goes into months that are not so good. So
• 21:29
  Speaker 4: the calendar turns to June, he's been playing well against
• 21:32
  Speaker 4: Texas here. I hope that it does continue on for him.
• 21:35
  Speaker 4: But I just hope people sit back and enjoy it
• 21:38
  Speaker 4: and realize what they're seeing with him defensively because he's
• 21:42
  Speaker 4: so good. He's so good there and the plays he
• 21:44
  Speaker 4: made yesterday really were special plays. Yet he does that
• 21:49
  Speaker 4: pretty regularly. That's not an odd thing to see him
• 21:51
  Speaker 4: do multiple times in a single game.
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: And I hope people realize too. Like he was great
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: defensively last year with a bad name right, had some
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: back issues. This year, had a knee issue. I don't
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: think we've seen him at one hundred percent for a
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: full season. And I think offensively, when if he can
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: get to that point where he's healthy and not feeling
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: something that we don't even know about, I think the
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: offensive numbers are going to be there.
• 22:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think this year the approach, I feel
• 22:23
  Speaker 3: like he's more committed or as committed as he's ever
• 22:25
  Speaker 3: been as far as an approach where he's not going
• 22:27
  Speaker 3: to get pull happy and try to hit home runs.
• 22:30
  Speaker 3: And he's even he admitted it, you know, this offseason,
• 22:33
  Speaker 3: whether he's back at winter warm up or I remember
• 22:34
  Speaker 3: talking to him in spring training and the idea that
• 22:37
  Speaker 3: he wanted to, you know, hit home runs and and
• 22:40
  Speaker 3: go to the poll side when we saw him to
• 22:42
  Speaker 3: have success his rookie season hitting the ball up the middle,
• 22:45
  Speaker 3: hitting the ball the other way, taking singles. That really
• 22:47
  Speaker 3: that two strike approach, and I think he's been committed
• 22:51
  Speaker 3: to it since spring training. I just think, you know,
• 22:53
  Speaker 3: the ups and downs are the you know, the the
• 22:56
  Speaker 3: just the you know, the nature of baseball that you know,
• 22:58
  Speaker 3: he got off to a slow start.
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: But I think he's been committed to that.
• 23:01
  Speaker 3: I think that with the ability to maybe take his
• 23:04
  Speaker 3: shots and go for a big swing and hit a
• 23:06
  Speaker 3: home run like he did the other day or like
• 23:08
  Speaker 3: he did in Houston, I think that will bring his
• 23:11
  Speaker 3: offense to a consistent level that people appreciate.
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: I think somewhere down the road he's gonna be a
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: twenty homer guy. But I agree he's got to settle
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: in and learn to go the other way. First, met
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: the Cardinals are due to get a big piece back right,
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: large new bar rehabbing in Memphis. If everything goes well
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: over the next day or two, we're told he should
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: be back with the Cardinals on Friday. So how do
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: you see that playing out? What does that do for
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: the ball club? And then maybe who's the odd man
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: out once Nude his back. Yeah, I think it's really
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: good for.
• 23:48
  Speaker 4: The ball club. We've talked so much about depth of
• 23:50
  Speaker 4: the lineup. That adds another piece and it just LinkedIn's
• 23:53
  Speaker 4: out that lineup a little bit more. There's there's been
• 23:56
  Speaker 4: so many dead spots in moments where rallies have kind
• 23:59
  Speaker 4: of died out as have gone on base and then
• 24:01
  Speaker 4: they can't come up with that one more hit. So
• 24:03
  Speaker 4: for the club, hopefully they are in a spot where
• 24:06
  Speaker 4: Newpark can give them that one more hit. It's gonna
• 24:09
  Speaker 4: be from a roster standpoint, this is gonna be really interesting,
• 24:13
  Speaker 4: I think over the next couple of weeks, because not
• 24:14
  Speaker 4: only a new Bark coming back, it's all connected. Church
• 24:17
  Speaker 4: is going to be back, Arius is going to be
• 24:19
  Speaker 4: back as well. I'm not sure who everybody is going
• 24:23
  Speaker 4: to go down. I think you do look at Thomas
• 24:25
  Speaker 4: to jc has being someone who may end up coming
• 24:28
  Speaker 4: off the roster. Maybe you look at Victor Scott the second.
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: I don't know what it looks like.
• 24:32
  Speaker 4: Beyond that, I do. I'm pretty confident in the idea
• 24:35
  Speaker 4: that Nuke Bar is gonna be your everyday left fielder
• 24:38
  Speaker 4: as long as he is healthy to do so. Scott's
• 24:41
  Speaker 4: gonna be out in center field a little bit, but
• 24:43
  Speaker 4: we've seen some struggles from him. I don't think it
• 24:45
  Speaker 4: was a coincidence the other day that Jose for being
• 24:47
  Speaker 4: played some center field. So it almost feels like this
• 24:50
  Speaker 4: is a really important stretch between New Bark getting back
• 24:53
  Speaker 4: and Church getting back for Scott's to show something because
• 24:57
  Speaker 4: you've got another guy in Church if you can play
• 24:59
  Speaker 4: a little bit of center field. So there's a lot
• 25:01
  Speaker 4: of moving parts right now. Not trying to like not
• 25:03
  Speaker 4: answer your question, but the point is there's a lot
• 25:06
  Speaker 4: of different things that can happen, and at some point,
• 25:09
  Speaker 4: if everybody gets back healthy, there's gonna be a tough
• 25:12
  Speaker 4: roster decision to be made, and I think on a
• 25:14
  Speaker 4: nightly basis, there's gonna be some tough lineup decisions to
• 25:17
  Speaker 4: make just as you try to get guys in there.
• 25:21
  Speaker 4: Torres has done such a good job so far. What
• 25:24
  Speaker 4: where's his spot on this roster? Where is his playing time?
• 25:27
  Speaker 4: What is that gonna look like when everybody gets back.
• 25:30
  Speaker 4: That's gonna be really interesting to watch and see how
• 25:32
  Speaker 4: that plays out.
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm not so sure that the Cardinals know exactly
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: how this is gonna all play out as guys come back.
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: But Len, what's your sense of how it goes short term?
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: Because we know Newt is due back, you know, this week,
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: and uh and Church won't be far behind. Just what's
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: your sense of how they go? Well?
• 25:52
  Speaker 3: I think you know, Lars comes back and he's playing
• 25:55
  Speaker 3: almost every day. They may ease him into left field
• 25:58
  Speaker 3: playing every day just because you know he's coming off
• 26:00
  Speaker 3: of basically ah you know, Minie spring training, in his rehab.
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: Outing and coming off of surgery as well.
• 26:07
  Speaker 3: But so my senses is that probably I wouldn't be
• 26:10
  Speaker 3: surprised if jac is the first one to go.
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: Like Matt, I'm interested to see how it goes from there.
• 26:16
  Speaker 3: I think it's almost a little bit of a I
• 26:21
  Speaker 3: hate to say stay of execution, but Scott he's got
• 26:25
  Speaker 3: a he's got.
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: A little bit of a window here to try and
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: hold on to his spot.
• 26:28
  Speaker 3: Because I think by the time you get to you know,
• 26:31
  Speaker 3: like jac is a person who can who goes down probably.
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: With Newt coming back.
• 26:35
  Speaker 3: You know, then when you get to Urius and by
• 26:37
  Speaker 3: the time Church comes back, you know, Scott's got a
• 26:41
  Speaker 3: limit of time to try and hold on to the spot,
• 26:43
  Speaker 3: and maybe he ends up being the person when by
• 26:45
  Speaker 3: the time you get to Church coming back, and then
• 26:47
  Speaker 3: I'm not sure when you get into Torres or for me,
• 26:50
  Speaker 3: and by the time you know, you got all three
• 26:51
  Speaker 3: of those guys back, it would be interesting decision to
• 26:53
  Speaker 3: see what that looks like because I I feel like
• 26:56
  Speaker 3: Velaska's again is the right handed bat ist sort of
• 26:59
  Speaker 3: tied to having Crooks here because you know you're gonna
• 27:02
  Speaker 3: be able to play those matchups late in the game.
• 27:05
  Speaker 3: So but I think initially Lar's coming back, and then
• 27:09
  Speaker 3: that again helps out with the lineup issues that we've
• 27:11
  Speaker 3: been talking about.
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: That's an extra bat that you know is going to
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: be in there regularly.
• 27:15
  Speaker 3: It gives you a length length in that lineup a
• 27:17
  Speaker 3: little bit, and then you can still play that matchup.
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: Game with that those final three spots or so.
• 27:23
  Speaker 3: But it will be interesting, you know, as they go
• 27:26
  Speaker 3: along how they make decisions on what the rest of
• 27:29
  Speaker 3: that roster looks like and who goes as you get
• 27:31
  Speaker 3: more pieces back.
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: No question, that's complicated. Gentlemen. Good job, good stuff. I
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: appreciate you coming on today, and that's gonna do it
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: for this edition of Cardinal Territory. We'll see you for
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: the next episode. Hopefully that one won't suck.