Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Killer Mom Julie Schenecker Shoots 'Mouthy' Children: New Trial?

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Killer Mom Julie Schenecker Shoots 'Mouthy' Children: New Trial? · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Imagine two beautiful children that
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: you give birth to, that you raise, that you nurture,
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  Speaker 1: that you sacrifice so much for a mom who loves
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  Speaker 1: nothing more than her boy and girl. To the shock
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  Speaker 1: of cops that arrive at her mansion in Florida to
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  Speaker 1: find Mommy in the backyard having a glass of wine
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  Speaker 1: in her bathrobe, while her daughter is upstairs shot in
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  Speaker 1: the mouth, dead, her son out for an afternoon of athletics,
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: also dead in the carport at the hands of Mommy.
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: being with us here at Fox Nation and Serious xem
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  Speaker 1: one eleven. I'm talking none other than Julie Sheneker, the
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  Speaker 1: highly educated mom of two who works her way up
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  Speaker 1: the ranks through the military to a very high high
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  Speaker 1: ranking position. Convicted in the murders of her two teen children.
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  Speaker 1: In the last days, she hopes to convince a judge
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  Speaker 1: she deserves a new trial with me here in the studio,
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  Speaker 1: Jackie Howard, Jackie, what can you tell me? In her
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  Speaker 1: latest bid for a new trial, Julie Sheneker alleged that
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  Speaker 1: her lawyers were ineffective, that they didn't call certain witnesses,
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  Speaker 1: and they didn't pursue any avenue that would have helped
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  Speaker 1: her case. She also claims she was pressured not to testify.
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  Speaker 1: Sheneker also says that media coverage surrounding her case impacted
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  Speaker 1: the jury. Julie Shineker, in her attempt to get a
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  Speaker 1: new trial and start all over from a scratch, demands
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  Speaker 1: the judge reverse her case, claiming her former lawyers made
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  Speaker 1: so many mistakes she deserves a do over. Yes, a
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  Speaker 1: do over, but what were the facts at trial? Listen?
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  Speaker 2: Police say about seven o'clock Thursday night, Shinecker armed herself
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  Speaker 2: with a thirty eight caliber pistol she had just purchased
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  Speaker 2: over the weekend. They say she shot her son twice
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  Speaker 2: in the head in the family's garage, then went upstairs
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  Speaker 2: and shot her daughter in the back of the head
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  Speaker 2: while she was doing her homework. She did tell us
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  Speaker 2: that they talked back, that they were mouthy, and that
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  Speaker 2: she was tired of it.
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  Speaker 1: Before we go any further, I want you to hear
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  Speaker 1: Julie Shinecker speaking in her own words, Jackie. Let's play
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  Speaker 1: the cut in its entirety Cut fourteen. Listen to Julie
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  Speaker 1: Shinecker speaking.
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  Speaker 3: That's a good boy.
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  Speaker 4: How bad he was him?
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  Speaker 1: I hate better than.
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  Speaker 4: You said, but it's better. Yeah, instead of how are
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  Speaker 4: you going to do that? Soun fun? How would you
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  Speaker 4: them sit there? Though? Oh so while they're in the house.
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  Speaker 1: So her original plan was to murder both of her
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: children by carbon monoxide, but her problem was when she
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  Speaker 1: would bring them home from school, they jump out of
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  Speaker 1: the car and go in, so she couldn't figure out, Wow,
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  Speaker 1: how can I kill them with carbon monoxide? I'll just
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  Speaker 1: shoot them instead. We're talking about a killer mom, Julie.
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  Speaker 1: She is no idiot. She was with the military as
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  Speaker 1: a linguist and advanced way up high in the military ranks.
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  Speaker 1: Here married to a military guy who also had climbed
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  Speaker 1: the ranks, and he was away from home a lot,
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  Speaker 1: and reports are she resented that deeply that she had
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  Speaker 1: given up so much to raise these two children and
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  Speaker 1: perceived that he had not. Well, now they're both dead,
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  Speaker 1: and when you hear the way they were shot dead,
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  Speaker 1: it's a story you'll never forget. With me an all
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  Speaker 1: star panel to make sense of it all. First of all,
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  Speaker 1: Judge trial lawyer anchor Court TV Ashley Wilcott had Ashley
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  Speaker 1: Wilcott dot com. Doctor Bethany Marshall, Psychoanalyst to the Stars,
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  Speaker 1: joining us from La. She's also the star of a
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  Speaker 1: new Netflix series, Blinging Empire, and you can find her
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  Speaker 1: a doctor Bethany Marshalled, renowned death investigator, Joe Scott Morgan,
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: Professor of Forensic Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath
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  Speaker 1: My Feet on Amazon. First to a special guest joining us,
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  Speaker 1: Serena Fison. Serena Fison is a four time Emmy Award
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  Speaker 1: winning TV anchor and reporter, and one of those Emmys
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  Speaker 1: was for getting the interview with Julie Shineker murder Mom,
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  Speaker 1: and Serena tells me that interview changed her life. You
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  Speaker 1: can find her at Serenafazon dot Media and she's got
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: a podcast on the record with Serena Fison. Wow do
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  Speaker 1: you ever sleep? Woman? Let's just start now with Nancy.
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  Speaker 1: Oh my god, let's just start with what happened here.
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  Speaker 1: I just have one question. I'm very curious about Serena Facan.
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  Speaker 1: When you spent all that time with killer Mom Julie Shineker,
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  Speaker 1: what was her demeanor because she apparently has no regrets
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  Speaker 1: over what she did.
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  Speaker 5: Well, you know when I first met her Nancy in
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  Speaker 5: that prison. She seemed to be she seemed to have regrets.
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  Speaker 5: It was when the cameras were turned off that she
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  Speaker 5: changed her demeanor. But as you started the show talking
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  Speaker 5: about how we would do anything, so many people would
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  Speaker 5: do anything to have children, I was obsessed with the case,
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  Speaker 5: for lack of a better term, for many, many reasons.
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  Speaker 5: But one of those reasons is because I had my
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  Speaker 5: daughter's three at the time, and I really wanted another child.
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  Speaker 5: So I just couldn't imagine how someone could kill their
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  Speaker 5: two children, or how anybody could do anything like that.
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  Speaker 5: So I wrote to her in prison every month for
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  Speaker 5: four years, just wanting, you know, to hear what she
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  Speaker 5: had to say the prosecutors. Initially she pled not guilty,
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  Speaker 5: you know, and then tried to go by reason of insanity.
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  Speaker 5: It was very, very it was I will never forget
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  Speaker 5: those hours that I spent with her.
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  Speaker 1: What was her demeanor? Was she lucid?
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  Speaker 6: She she was lucid?
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  Speaker 7: She was she was lucid, She seemed to be she
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  Speaker 7: would her eyes were all over the place, though, you know,
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  Speaker 7: seemed not to really connect answering these questions.
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  Speaker 1: Well, wait a minute, Wait a minute, hold on right there, uh,
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: Serena Vashon joining me, Emmy Award winning anchor and reporter.
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  Speaker 1: I've seen plenty of defendants on the stand. I didn't
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  Speaker 1: put them up. They went up on their own, and
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  Speaker 1: they looked everywhere but and me asking them questions too,
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  Speaker 1: which of course I loved because the jury was watching
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  Speaker 1: it at the same time. I mean, when you don't
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  Speaker 1: want to answer question, you look down, up around. It's
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  Speaker 1: hard for me to look somebody in the eye and
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  Speaker 1: outright lie. And that's a real tell. That's a nonverbal
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  Speaker 1: communication right there, when the person looks away when you
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: ask them a question. Boy, when I asked the twins
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  Speaker 1: the question, if they look away, I'm on it right then.
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  Speaker 1: But sadly they know my game, so they know how
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  Speaker 1: to they know how to treat me. Guys, we are
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  Speaker 1: talking about this woman. I murder mom, There's no doubt
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  Speaker 1: about it. She shot both of her children. And these children,
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  Speaker 1: oh my stars, let me look up all their accomplishments.
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  Speaker 1: For Pete's sake, let's see the teen girl, Keleik Shine
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  Speaker 1: Kerr was an honor student. She had record time at
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  Speaker 1: high school track. She was outstanding as far as grades go.
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  Speaker 1: Same thing. A highly popular sophomore, she never missed school.
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  Speaker 1: The only day that she missed school was the day
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  Speaker 1: her mother's showed her dad her little brother Bo was
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: a goalie playing middle school soccer. That's not easy. I
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  Speaker 1: don't get it, but you know what, let's hear it
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  Speaker 1: from the horse's mouth. Take a listen. This is kill
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  Speaker 1: her mom, Julie Shinneker.
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  Speaker 4: What made you decide to do it this way? First?
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  Speaker 8: Bow?
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  Speaker 9: But I mean did were you bringing him back from
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  Speaker 9: soccer practice and he kissed you off?
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  Speaker 4: As that would happened? It snapped it right, I do.
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  Speaker 9: Something if he turned around and came back.
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  Speaker 10: You know when?
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  Speaker 5: Did you?
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  Speaker 3: When?
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  Speaker 4: Exactly did you shoot Bow? Were you in the garage already?
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  Speaker 8: Yes?
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  Speaker 11: Se right?
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  Speaker 4: But were you in your garage or were you driving.
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  Speaker 1: Him?
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  Speaker 4: So then you shot him? Where'd you shoot him? First?
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  Speaker 4: You remember which signed love side?
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  Speaker 11: And then why? And then.
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  Speaker 4: I didn't do anything?
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace. Welcome back everybody for those
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: of you just joining us. Convicted killer, high ranking in
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  Speaker 1: the military, highly educated mom Julie Shineker back in a
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  Speaker 1: temple courtroom trying to convince a judge. Her trial lawyers
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  Speaker 1: made so many mistakes at trial. She deserves a new one,
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  Speaker 1: a do over. Did it ever occur to her? The
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  Speaker 1: reason the jury convicted her is not because of her lawyers,
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  Speaker 1: but because of her detailed notes about murdering her children,
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  Speaker 1: buying a gun ahead of time, lying left and right
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  Speaker 1: to cover her tracks. All I believe out of revenge,
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  Speaker 1: because her husband continued in the military, would fly all
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  Speaker 1: around the world while she gave up her career to
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  Speaker 1: raise children. Listen, woman, just go back to work. Why this?
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  Speaker 4: And then what happened after that? Sitting there? Okay?
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  Speaker 12: And then you went upstairs and that's when you confronted
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  Speaker 12: Jaylie's she's head.
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  Speaker 4: She didn't know you were there. Head.
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  Speaker 1: I shot her in the back of the head, in
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  Speaker 1: the mouth. Listen to the us.
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  Speaker 4: When you shot her in the head?
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  Speaker 9: Did she fall forward or anything? She feels fell sideways?
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  Speaker 9: And then how did you shoot her in the mouth?
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  Speaker 9: Where was she laying?
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  Speaker 4: She was she was still in that chair, the chair
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  Speaker 4: I had read. Did you take it right inside her mouth?
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  Speaker 11: No?
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  Speaker 4: I didn't do the inside, and you just from the outside.
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  Speaker 1: Shot ye jack. I want to hear the rest of
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  Speaker 1: what she said about her daughter kill it's place she
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  Speaker 1: said when.
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  Speaker 11: When I get out of here, I'm never going to
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  Speaker 11: come back and see you.
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  Speaker 4: I came up behind her. What was she doing for?
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  Speaker 4: She was at homework on the computer.
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  Speaker 9: Yeah, he came up behind her with what was okay?
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  Speaker 4: And what happened? I shout about the head because she
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  Speaker 4: was running her mouth at you. Yeah, and then I
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  Speaker 4: shot her. I think, why did you want to shoot
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  Speaker 4: her in the mouth?
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  Speaker 1: Because someone's energy, you know, Doctor Bethony Marshall. I'm having
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  Speaker 1: the same reaction right now as I would have so
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  Speaker 1: often in court when I would have to present evidence
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  Speaker 1: that was just unspeakable, and it leaves me almost numb, uh,
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  Speaker 1: with waves of nausea listening to her talking about shooting
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  Speaker 1: her girl in the mouth. And I remember moments like
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  Speaker 1: that like that in court when then I'd have to
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  Speaker 1: continue questioning and I'd look out with the jury and
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  Speaker 1: they were would be just reeally, just numb with what
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  Speaker 1: they had just heard and shittaker. But our job is
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  Speaker 1: to analyze the facts and evidence and try to make
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  Speaker 1: sense of it. Did you hear her say she shot
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  Speaker 1: her daughter in the lath she was already dead, Yeah,
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  Speaker 1: because she first shot her in the back of the head.
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  Speaker 1: But then she went up and shot Klex again in
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  Speaker 1: the mouth.
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  Speaker 3: I heard it, Nancy, Nancy, I remember covering this case
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  Speaker 3: with you. Do you remember?
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  Speaker 1: I remember? I messed today.
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  Speaker 3: The images were so profound.
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  Speaker 6: Her husband was away on tour.
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  Speaker 3: She was so angry at her husband for not being
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  Speaker 3: home to take care of the kids. She sounded the
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  Speaker 3: way she was sitting on the back porch covered in blood,
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  Speaker 3: and during the interviews, she sounded like she was trying
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  Speaker 3: to act crazy or drugged. But she's not crazy at all,
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  Speaker 3: She's quite saying Nancy. Her profile reminds me of a
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  Speaker 3: particular type of patient who comes into my office, who
• 15:00
  Speaker 3: is very shifty, eyes all over the place, like our
• 15:03
  Speaker 3: Emmy Award winning producer was talking about, who is only
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  Speaker 3: attached to one person on the face of the planet,
• 15:10
  Speaker 3: and that is themselves. They present in a peculiar kind
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  Speaker 3: of way, as if the only thing that excites or
• 15:19
  Speaker 3: interests them is their own internal world, their own imagination,
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  Speaker 3: their own thoughts about things. It's as if they're solipsistic,
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  Speaker 3: meaning that the outside world is completely cut off and
• 15:31
  Speaker 3: their own internal imagination and fantasies are enlivened. It's like
• 15:37
  Speaker 3: they're it's like the It's like Horton, here's who if
• 15:41
  Speaker 3: you have the Doctor Seuss book. But the Who is
• 15:44
  Speaker 3: their own internal world. They go further and further inside
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  Speaker 3: of their own thoughts and.
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  Speaker 1: All that about Horton hears who in his own private world,
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: her own private world. But what matters to me, maybe
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  Speaker 1: I'm a little bit more of a pragmatist, is what
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  Speaker 1: she is saying at the time of the act. Clearly
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: the answer to that is no. I interviewed no the
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  Speaker 1: guy who sold her the gun. Let's pull that up, Jackie,
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  Speaker 1: the guy who sold her the gun, and he told
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: me that she was in no way unsteady, that she
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  Speaker 1: was completely lucid. That she was saying. And while I've
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: got you, Serena Fizhan, isn't it true that she bought
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: the gun just shortly before the two murders?
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  Speaker 5: Yes, and Nancy she told me when I asked her
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  Speaker 5: that question in prison, she I asked her if she
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  Speaker 5: had any regrets for killing her children, and she said no.
• 16:38
  Speaker 5: She says that she was trying to save them. Those
• 16:41
  Speaker 5: were her words, she said to me. I just told
• 16:44
  Speaker 5: up some of my interviews. Yeah, and the full interviews
• 16:47
  Speaker 5: you can still watch online. But she said, I know
• 16:50
  Speaker 5: you hate me. Everyone here hates Me's It's okay because
• 16:55
  Speaker 5: Caylee Simba loved me. I told them that I love
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  Speaker 5: them every day.
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  Speaker 1: Okay. Take a listen to cut our cut twenty. This
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: is Gerald Tanzo, owner of Lock and Load gun store
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: with Shineker bought the murder weapon. He's talking about the
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: day she bought the gun. This is when he tells
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: me listen, So, when you sold Julie Shineker the murder weapon,
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: did you have any reason to believe she had a
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: mental illness, that she was insane, that she was drunk
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: or high, any reason you felt you should not sell
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  Speaker 1: her a gun?
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  Speaker 8: Not at all, not at all.
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  Speaker 1: In fact, did you find it unusual for a woman
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  Speaker 1: to be buying a gun?
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  Speaker 8: We sold guns to women every day.
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: And again kind of gun? What kind of gun did
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: you say she bought?
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  Speaker 8: Was a Smith and Wesson Bodyguard thirty eight?
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: And did she buy ammunition?
• 17:52
  Speaker 8: She bought ammunition too, correct?
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: When she left? What was her demeanor?
• 17:59
  Speaker 8: She was very nice, very very good, very presonerable, smiling, happy.
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: In fact, didn't she shake her hand when she left?
• 18:09
  Speaker 8: That was on the day of the pickup. Yeah, that
• 18:11
  Speaker 8: was on the twenty seventh, shook my hands, said goodbye,
• 18:14
  Speaker 8: and everything was fine.
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: Straight back out to Serena Zahn joining us. Serena, how
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: close in time did she get the gun, actually physically
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: get the gun to when she shot her children? Did?
• 18:27
  Speaker 5: I believe it was just like three days before perhaps
• 18:30
  Speaker 5: something like that. I'm trying to remember. We have about
• 18:35
  Speaker 5: three days less than a week before. And she claimed
• 18:40
  Speaker 5: that the intention was for her just to use the
• 18:45
  Speaker 5: gun on herself. That's what she first told the investiators,
• 18:51
  Speaker 5: that that was her intention, but then she changed her mind.
• 18:55
  Speaker 5: And you know, when you were talking about the kids
• 18:57
  Speaker 5: being shot, one of the stories that continued. I mean,
• 18:59
  Speaker 5: I just cannot picture this as all of us, as
• 19:03
  Speaker 5: most of his apparents. Little Bo was actually in the
• 19:06
  Speaker 5: car tying his shoe, right. He looked up at his
• 19:12
  Speaker 5: mom and said, Mom, what's wrong? And that's when she
• 19:17
  Speaker 5: shot him.
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: Convicted killer mother of two Julie Shineker in court demanding
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: a do over, blaming her lawyers for her guilty conviction.
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: But I've got news for her. The judge in the
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: last hours denies the request by Julie Shineker for a
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: new trial. That's right, in the last weeks. The judge says,
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: no way. Woman Julie Shineker convicted on two counts a
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: first degree murder in the death of her beautiful girl Kalyik,
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: sixteen and son Bo just thirteen years old. It's hard
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: to believe that this woman has gone through so much
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: demanding histrionics, lying over the deaths of her two children.
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: The murders now insisting she deserves a new trial, blaming,
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: blaming her lawyers. She had a fleet of attorneys at trial,
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: veteran trial lawyers. She testified in court quote, I don't
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: believe his expertise rose to the level of testifying for
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: insanity in this case. The doctor disputed that when he
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: was asked if his testimony would have lined up with
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: other defense experts, he said it would not only line up,
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: but would explain the impact of defense findings. Let me
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: just say they put on quite a show in the courtroom.
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  Speaker 1: Daughter Klik shot in the bedroom working on homework, all
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  Speaker 1: a student, both shot in the family suv, writing home
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: from a game with his mom. At the time. Shineker
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: admitted to the shooting killing her kids because they talked
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: back and were quote to Mauthey, all of the evidence
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: could be shown to a new jury if the judge
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: had decided in Shineker's favor. We're learning more about Julie
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: Shineker's rage at her husband's career surpassing her own, her
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: anger that he had to fly out of town for work.
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: She lived in a mansion, as I recall, with a
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: pool out back. I mean, she had it all as
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: this big, huge thing that most people only ever dream of.
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: I mean, when you talk about the one percenters, that
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: would be them. But she was still angry. Take a
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  Speaker 1: listen to you. You are cut twenty seven.
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  Speaker 11: This yellow thing around her came up and went through
• 22:09
  Speaker 11: the ceiling. And then I picked her up and put
• 22:14
  Speaker 11: her in bed and covered her up, and I sat
• 22:18
  Speaker 11: her up and I hugged her, and she didn't hug
• 22:25
  Speaker 11: me back, and I laid her down and I kissed
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  Speaker 11: her good night, and I covered her up.
• 22:32
  Speaker 6: And then I.
• 22:33
  Speaker 13: Realized I forgot to cover up bow and it was January,
• 22:37
  Speaker 13: so I went and got a blanket and I covered
• 22:39
  Speaker 13: him up and kissed him good night. And I didn't
• 22:43
  Speaker 13: see any blood at all at all, but white and
• 22:49
  Speaker 13: a half years later I saw blood in the pictures,
• 22:55
  Speaker 13: But that day I don't.
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: Want no blood. What save it, lady, he murders your children,
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: all this covering them with a blanket and kissing them
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: and hugging them. I don't care. She murdered them. She
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: planned to murder them. She detailed it in riding out
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: of anger. Her husband left her to raise them when
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: he had to go away on trips. And then she
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: starts this with quote, this yellow thing around her came
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: out of her head and went through the ceiling to you,
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: Serena Fasodictys trying to say that was her daughter's soul.
• 23:31
  Speaker 5: Yeah, she told me that that was her daughter's soul,
• 23:34
  Speaker 5: her son's soul, and that they were going up to heaven.
• 23:39
  Speaker 5: And that's why she wanted the death penalty. She wanted
• 23:43
  Speaker 5: the death penalty initially because she wanted to join her children,
• 23:48
  Speaker 5: and there was a trial, there was that that's what
• 23:50
  Speaker 5: she wanted it. So she claimed at the very very beginning,
• 23:54
  Speaker 5: she said that she wanted she wished, she wished, she
• 23:58
  Speaker 5: got the death penalty.
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: Why is she just pleaded guilty.
• 24:02
  Speaker 5: That's the question, Nancy. And that's why you're so great
• 24:05
  Speaker 5: at what I'll tell you.
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: Why Because she did it with a death penalty and
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: she didn't want to go to jail. That's why you
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: have a trial, because you don't want to go to jail,
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: and the prosecutor does want you to go to jail. Guys,
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: I mean that's so best actors. Everything this woman says
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: is a calculated lie. Well, you know what, don't take
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: my word for it. Listen to our cut seventeen Julie
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: Shinneker murder Mom.
• 24:29
  Speaker 9: When you shot her in the head, did she fall
• 24:31
  Speaker 9: forward or anything? She fell sideways? And then how did
• 24:36
  Speaker 9: you shoot her in the mouth? Where was she laying?
• 24:42
  Speaker 4: I'm still going to share. Did you take it right
• 24:48
  Speaker 4: inside her mouth?
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: Inside?
• 24:53
  Speaker 4: Because from the outside of Shiah.
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: She kept referring to her daughter's mouth as quote her
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: sassy mouth. Okay to you asked you Wilcott judge and
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: trial lawyer and great court TV way in.
• 25:08
  Speaker 6: Oh my gosh, Nancy, you know I've been here biting
• 25:10
  Speaker 6: my tongue. I have so much to say. First of all,
• 25:12
  Speaker 6: here she's trying in this interview to act like oh
• 25:16
  Speaker 6: it was she was saving them and she saw their
• 25:18
  Speaker 6: souls go up. Let's talk about premeditation. She had written
• 25:22
  Speaker 6: a note about thinking about killing them by gas from
• 25:25
  Speaker 6: a car exhaust then she chose to go buy a gun, calmly, sanely, rationally,
• 25:31
  Speaker 6: according to the person that sold it to her. She
• 25:34
  Speaker 6: then claims they had math, they were mouthy, right, Okay.
• 25:38
  Speaker 6: So he's sitting in the back of the car, tying
• 25:41
  Speaker 6: a shoe, doing nothing, innoctantly, sitting there and she executes him.
• 25:46
  Speaker 6: Then she goes inside and executes her daughter, who is
• 25:50
  Speaker 6: doing homework on a computer. So none of this makes sense.
• 25:54
  Speaker 6: All of this is contrived by her to try to
• 25:57
  Speaker 6: cover up the fact that she murdered her her children
• 26:00
  Speaker 6: and cold. But there's no excuse, there's no justification. It
• 26:05
  Speaker 6: doesn't matter if she's angry at her husband, it doesn't matter.
• 26:09
  Speaker 6: There's no explaining this other than she evillly murdered her children.
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: You were hearing earlier on Julie Shineker as she was
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: speaking to police. Later, you were hearing her speaking to
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: our friends Serena Fazhan Serena when she would say these
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: things to you.
• 26:31
  Speaker 5: What was her demeanor she was, you know, she was
• 26:34
  Speaker 5: giving off that demeanor as feel sorry for me. You know,
• 26:38
  Speaker 5: she actually told me so. She told me that Bea
• 26:43
  Speaker 5: was the victim of sexual abuse and he was molested
• 26:48
  Speaker 5: at the age of six, but she wouldn't reveal by Hugh.
• 26:52
  Speaker 5: Then she said that she was great as sexually assault
• 26:57
  Speaker 5: and I'm sorry, I hate that other word. Team and
• 27:01
  Speaker 5: she was trying to protect her children from a similar fake.
• 27:05
  Speaker 5: So I kept on pushing her to say, who are
• 27:09
  Speaker 5: you protecting them from?
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: Who?
• 27:12
  Speaker 5: I mean, quite frankly, I thought they need to be
• 27:14
  Speaker 5: protected from her, and that clearly ended up being the case.
• 27:18
  Speaker 5: But that's what she told me in that interview.
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: So she changed her story. Said, yes, she changed her
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: story because the suggestion they were ever molested has never
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: been brought up until a behind jailhouse walls interview that
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: you managed to obtain. And so if you hear her
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: words that we played earlier when she was speaking to police,
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: she says, bo her little boy was quote sitting there
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: with his face blown out, so that was her idea
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: of protecting him. Guys, please take a listen to our
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: friend from hl and Jin Kasara speaking to me.
• 28:01
  Speaker 10: Police are alleging and prosecutors that when she was driving
• 28:05
  Speaker 10: her little thirteen year old two soccer practice, she shot
• 28:10
  Speaker 10: him in the head twice. He was dead. She went
• 28:13
  Speaker 10: back to the home, drove the car in the garage.
• 28:15
  Speaker 10: He stayed dead in the car in the garage. Then
• 28:18
  Speaker 10: she went to the second floor of their home, where
• 28:21
  Speaker 10: her sixteen year old daughter was on the computer doing homework.
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: Shot her twice in the head. Dead.
• 28:26
  Speaker 10: She was found the next morning in her bathrobe and slippers,
• 28:29
  Speaker 10: out and back with blood all over her.
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: To Joseph Scott Morgan, Professor Frenziks Jacksonville State University, do
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: you see the comparison that she shot both off her
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: children in the head as she shot both of them twice?
• 28:45
  Speaker 14: Yeah?
• 28:45
  Speaker 3: I do.
• 28:45
  Speaker 14: And there's another piece here too, Nancy, that I've seen before.
• 28:48
  Speaker 14: And when we think about this beautiful girl just doing
• 28:52
  Speaker 14: her homework, I find it it's the fact that she
• 28:58
  Speaker 14: went back and shot her in the mouth says a lot.
• 29:01
  Speaker 14: I've worked many cases involving individuals who serial perpetrators in
• 29:09
  Speaker 14: particular that will mutilate individuals, sadist in fact, who will
• 29:15
  Speaker 14: carve up the mouth, that will do horrible things to
• 29:18
  Speaker 14: the mouth of individuals. And I'm not going to go
• 29:20
  Speaker 14: into all of the details, but it speaks a lot.
• 29:24
  Speaker 14: When you're doing a profile and an individual like this,
• 29:27
  Speaker 14: you can learn about where they're inflicting these injuries. The
• 29:30
  Speaker 14: daughter in particular is from just a straight up clinical standpoint,
• 29:37
  Speaker 14: is kind of interesting because of what she did. You know,
• 29:40
  Speaker 14: she's talking about this child, this child being mouthy, and
• 29:45
  Speaker 14: there's like this attempt to blow the mouth out. It's
• 29:48
  Speaker 14: almost symbolic and it's ultimately horrific. You guys, if folks
• 29:54
  Speaker 14: will just go and visit crime online and starts her name,
• 29:58
  Speaker 14: you guys have a fantastic stick article about this case,
• 30:02
  Speaker 14: and you can actually see the crime scene images and
• 30:06
  Speaker 14: it really puts you in that place where this little
• 30:08
  Speaker 14: girl is at her desk. Nancy. You can see the
• 30:12
  Speaker 14: computer there, you can see the bloodstains that are on
• 30:14
  Speaker 14: the floor, and just know that this girl didn't rise
• 30:17
  Speaker 14: to her feet. There was no there was no engagement
• 30:22
  Speaker 14: as far as an argument or a fight. She shot
• 30:25
  Speaker 14: this poor child where she sat.
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. For those of you just
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: joining as Julie Schinneker, the ultimate murder mom. First of all,
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: take us to Ed Lawrence at ABC Action News Our
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: Cut thirteen.
• 30:53
  Speaker 15: The diary talks and specifics about the two kids, thirteen
• 30:57
  Speaker 15: year old Bo and sixteen year old Klyx, called.
• 31:00
  Speaker 16: Me an evil soul and Prince sees the evil starts Thursday.
• 31:05
  Speaker 16: The technician went on to read another page labeled Thursday,
• 31:08
  Speaker 16: the day of the murders. The passage started talking about
• 31:11
  Speaker 16: how she shot both first in the car on the
• 31:13
  Speaker 16: way to practice, and she was surprised he had fight.
• 31:16
  Speaker 16: He was yelling at me. First shot hit the windshield.
• 31:20
  Speaker 16: Second shot was the side of the head. Next shot
• 31:23
  Speaker 16: was to the mouth, his mouth and mouth.
• 31:26
  Speaker 15: The diary talks about how both kids would talk back
• 31:28
  Speaker 15: to Scheneker and not treat her with respect, then describes
• 31:32
  Speaker 15: the murder of her daughter.
• 31:33
  Speaker 16: Came home, dash Kalyx was on the upstairs computer. She
• 31:37
  Speaker 16: said in quotations, what are you doing? Quotations, just see
• 31:41
  Speaker 16: what you're doing, walked up without her reacting, and shot
• 31:45
  Speaker 16: her in the right temple. Then shot her in the mouth,
• 31:49
  Speaker 16: and Prince sees her sassy little.
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: Mouth, and then we hear from her own her own mouth.
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: Listen to Carson Chambers at ABC Action News this is
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: cut eleven.
• 32:01
  Speaker 17: We were told by a medical examiner today that bo
• 32:04
  Speaker 17: and Kalox were shot at such close range that they
• 32:07
  Speaker 17: actually had burn marks on their skin. For defense attorney's
• 32:11
  Speaker 17: claim that she was insane at the time the slangs,
• 32:14
  Speaker 17: she was diagnosed bipolar with psychotic features, and that her
• 32:18
  Speaker 17: chronic mental illness stole everything from her, including her two children.
• 32:22
  Speaker 17: The State says Shineker actually planned that Saturday massacre with
• 32:26
  Speaker 17: a thirty eight revolver and hollow point bullets and then
• 32:30
  Speaker 17: wrote about the slangs in a diary.
• 32:34
  Speaker 12: Off to bow on the way to practice, he saw
• 32:36
  Speaker 12: the gun and told me to put it back in
• 32:38
  Speaker 12: the purse. He had a healthy fright. I accident evently
• 32:42
  Speaker 12: shot the window, the shot him one extra through, one
• 32:47
  Speaker 12: extra shot through the side of the head.
• 32:50
  Speaker 4: Then when then when we got home.
• 32:52
  Speaker 12: A shot to his mouth because he became so mouthy,
• 32:55
  Speaker 12: just like.
• 32:56
  Speaker 17: Klys And the state says that she also wrote in
• 32:59
  Speaker 17: the diary that she would have killed her husband, Colonel
• 33:03
  Speaker 17: Parker Shineker, had he been in the house at the time.
• 33:05
  Speaker 17: Of course, he was on assignment in Afghanistan.
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: Did you hear that, Serena Fison? How can she defend
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: shooting them both in the head and then both of
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: them and their mouth In her diary, which is what
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: I'm focusing on right now, she refers to them and
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: their mouthy mouth. In other words, they talk back to.
• 33:26
  Speaker 5: Her, it was crazy. And you know, she told me
• 33:29
  Speaker 5: though when she was sitting with me, that she wishes
• 33:32
  Speaker 5: that her husband, Colonel Parker Shineker, would have institutionalized her
• 33:37
  Speaker 5: when she asked him to do so in the past.
• 33:39
  Speaker 5: Now the question, of course, is we don't believe she
• 33:41
  Speaker 5: asked him to do that. She claimed that her pride
• 33:46
  Speaker 5: or their pride, because they lived they did live Nancy
• 33:49
  Speaker 5: meg gorgeous home, that it kept them from addressing her
• 33:54
  Speaker 5: mental illness or her mental health and they don't want
• 33:59
  Speaker 5: anybody to know.
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: Okay, wait, let me understand this. So she's claiming she
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: had mental illness, and she was saying enough to know
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: she had a mental illness and to ask to go
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: to the doctor, but they didn't. She did not take
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: herself to a therapist, a shrink, a psychologist, a psychoanalysts,
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: a psychiatrist, because what she didn't want anybody to find out,
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: So she had a sacret mental illness. Is that what
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: you're telling me?
• 34:29
  Speaker 5: Yes, that is exactly what I'm telling you that she
• 34:32
  Speaker 5: to me.
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: She said to me it was her.
• 34:35
  Speaker 5: Pride that prevented her. And also she blamed her husband.
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: Of course she did, because he's in Afghanistan, right, but.
• 34:43
  Speaker 5: King Parker both did not want to address her mental
• 34:47
  Speaker 5: illness because they were embarrassed by what their neighbors would think.
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: Guys on mental illness, take a listen to our cut
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: twelve Edward Lawrence ABC action.
• 34:57
  Speaker 15: The crime scene technician read her own words out loud
• 35:00
  Speaker 15: for the jury. I was planning on a Saturday massacre,
• 35:04
  Speaker 15: but had to wait on the background investigate before three days.
• 35:08
  Speaker 15: This comes from a spiral notebook written by Sheneker's hand.
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: It offers direction to her husband.
• 35:12
  Speaker 15: Prosecutors say it shows a calculating murderer waiting and plotting
• 35:16
  Speaker 15: her attack.
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: Okay, doctor Bethony Marshall, we need a shrink pronto.
• 35:22
  Speaker 3: Well, she reminds me of so many murderers who are
• 35:25
  Speaker 3: actually very The clinical term is histrionic, but I call
• 35:29
  Speaker 3: it drama queen. You know, the shooting them in the
• 35:32
  Speaker 3: mouth and the mouthy mouth and all of that. And
• 35:34
  Speaker 3: she's been very dramatic.
• 35:36
  Speaker 6: This idea that she.
• 35:38
  Speaker 3: Is saving them because they were molested or from future molestation.
• 35:42
  Speaker 3: That's what Andrea Yates did. Remember that she felt that
• 35:47
  Speaker 3: she had this delusion that if she didn't drown the kids,
• 35:50
  Speaker 3: that they would go to hell. So she was saving
• 35:54
  Speaker 3: them from hell by killing or drowning them. That was
• 35:57
  Speaker 3: Andrea Yates and Julie Shinakur is saving them because they've
• 36:02
  Speaker 3: been molested, and from what she's saving them from. It's
• 36:05
  Speaker 3: hard to say. I think this idea of mental illness
• 36:10
  Speaker 3: is what we call in the forensic community lingering. After
• 36:13
  Speaker 3: the fact, lingering as a fancy term for making up
• 36:17
  Speaker 3: some kind of an illness. So now she's going to
• 36:19
  Speaker 3: make up that she had a psychiatric illness. The motivation
• 36:24
  Speaker 3: for killing the kids is probably quite shallow. She just
• 36:27
  Speaker 3: didn't want them around. But you know, most parents who
• 36:30
  Speaker 3: kill their kids do it to get back at the
• 36:33
  Speaker 3: other parents, at the other parent, Right, So she's angry
• 36:36
  Speaker 3: at her husband that he's on a tour of duty.
• 36:41
  Speaker 3: She's tired of taking care.
• 36:42
  Speaker 6: Of the kids.
• 36:43
  Speaker 3: She's probably harboring very angry thoughts at him. She strikes
• 36:46
  Speaker 3: out at the kids. What is the worst thing you
• 36:49
  Speaker 3: can do to a parent harm their kids? So this
• 36:52
  Speaker 3: is really not only an act towards the kids, This
• 36:55
  Speaker 3: is an act of violence and rage towards her husband
• 36:58
  Speaker 3: as well. And I was thing about her being preoccupied
• 37:02
  Speaker 3: with her own internal world. She's only tethered to one person,
• 37:06
  Speaker 3: and that's herself. She's not tethered to external reality, the
• 37:10
  Speaker 3: fact that she's going to go to prison or what
• 37:11
  Speaker 3: the rest of her life is going to be like.
• 37:13
  Speaker 3: She's just caught up in that immediate moment of rage.
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: To Serena Fazhan tell me about her Julie Shinniker and
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: her husband's that ground and how educated.
• 37:27
  Speaker 5: Oh, extremely educated. I believe they met in Germany and
• 37:30
  Speaker 5: they were looked as the power couple, you know, both
• 37:35
  Speaker 5: of them very put together, very well respected, just again
• 37:42
  Speaker 5: like a power couple. And she was a linguist, as
• 37:45
  Speaker 5: we talked about, extremely intelligent. After my interview with her,
• 37:50
  Speaker 5: I also am convinced she is a master manipulator as well.
• 37:54
  Speaker 5: Definitely a master manipulator. I mean she told the lead
• 37:57
  Speaker 5: prosecutor in the case with a guy byam with Jay Pruner.
• 38:01
  Speaker 5: She actually told me at the time that she commended
• 38:06
  Speaker 5: him for convincing the jury that she was not insane
• 38:10
  Speaker 5: and referenced previous moments in her life when she snapped,
• 38:15
  Speaker 5: you know, saying so she was very you know, she
• 38:19
  Speaker 5: says she's not insane, and then she's saying that she
• 38:21
  Speaker 5: was saying her story was all over the place. There
• 38:25
  Speaker 5: was an incident, and I know, I don't know if
• 38:27
  Speaker 5: people had talked about it, but I don't know when
• 38:31
  Speaker 5: it happened. It happened maybe a year, maybe several months
• 38:35
  Speaker 5: prior to this. But she actually headbutted an army commander's
• 38:39
  Speaker 5: wife at a function. I didn't know that. Yeah, she
• 38:45
  Speaker 5: had butted. It was during a Christmas party. And you know,
• 38:52
  Speaker 5: Parker Scheneker had said that those were the moments that
• 38:55
  Speaker 5: he knew that his wife were going out of.
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: Control, out of control. And they're saying two different things.
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: Headbutting another woman that at Christmas party, Okay, I'd say
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: that's not good. In saying, no, you know, it's interesting.
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: This is just evil to you. Actually world caught on
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: that evening January twenty seven, Shinnaker sends an email to
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: her then husband park Her. It says, quote, get home soon.
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: We're waiting for you. But as a matter of fact,
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: she's just murdered the children. They were dead lying there,
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: and she says, hurry home.
• 39:33
  Speaker 6: I can't even begin to fathom the depths of her evilness.
• 39:38
  Speaker 6: I'm not going to say I believe that it's anything
• 39:40
  Speaker 6: other than that. I don't believe it's mental health. You know,
• 39:43
  Speaker 6: she's trying to paint it as Oh, I had to
• 39:45
  Speaker 6: give up my career, I'm angry with my husband. Crimea
• 39:49
  Speaker 6: River to then go the extra step, and we've already
• 39:53
  Speaker 6: heard she's very, very smart, so she's very revengeful manipulative
• 39:58
  Speaker 6: to know they're dead and send him that type of message.
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: I wonder what he thought when.
• 40:04
  Speaker 6: He read it. I wonder if he read it and thought,
• 40:06
  Speaker 6: what does this mean.
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: I'm looking at the photo of these two beautiful children,
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: a professional photo. The family had made their smiling faces
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: smiling out at the world ahead of them, thanks to
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: their own mother, Julie Shineker. That dream is over and
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: those smiles gone forever. Julie Shineker, I'm tired of your
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: courtroom antics, your bs in your lies, wrought in hell, Mommy,
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: Nancy Grace Crime Stories signing off, goodbye friend,