Latest / We Are For Good Podcast - The Podcast for Nonprofits / 230. What Matters Now: Leaders as Thought Leaders - Jonathan McCoy, CFRE, Becky Endicott, CFRE and Tania Bhattacharyya

Transcript

230. What Matters Now: Leaders as Thought Leaders - Jonathan McCoy, CFRE, Becky Endicott, CFRE and Tania Bhattacharyya · We Are For Good Podcast - The Podcast for Nonprofits

• 0:01
  Becky Endicott: Hey, I'm John.
• 0:01
  Becky Endicott: And I'm Becky.
• 0:03
  Jonathan McCoy: And this is the we are for good podcast.
• 0:06
  Becky Endicott: Nonprofits are faced with more challenges to accomplish their missions and the growing pressure to do more, raise more and be more for the causes that improve our world.
• 0:15
  Jonathan McCoy: We're here to learn with you from some of the best in the industry, bringing the most innovative ideas, inspirational stories, all to create an impact uprising.
• 0:23
  Becky Endicott: So welcome to the good community. We're nonprofit professionals, philanthropist, world changers and rabid fans who are striving to bring a little more goodness into the world.
• 0:34
  Jonathan McCoy: So let's get started. Hey, Becky, good to see you.
• 0:38
  Becky Endicott: Happy Friday, everybody. Glad you're back.
• 0:40
  Jonathan McCoy: So okay, if you're just tuning in today, we're on Week Six of this series that we kind of started at the beginning of the year, because listen, it's the start of the new year, there's lots of good energy, it's shockingly already February. But we wanted to lift like the topics that we see as trends happening. These are trends that we're seeing in these threaded conversations from people around the world that are really making a huge difference, that are seeing incredible results, incredible cultures come alive. And we just want to lift those and give you the playbook and bring back some of our favorite guests to help unpack them. And so welcome back.
• 1:12
  Becky Endicott: So today we're going to be talking about leaders as thought leaders. And congratulations, because you are a thought leader, you may not have known you are a thought leader. But we believe in this day and age, everybody has the potential to be a thought leader and to lean into your why to lean into your values, your brand and your purpose. And we brought an incredible expert in to talk about this with us.
• 1:36
  Becky Endicott: Tanya Bhattacharya is here, she's gonna knock your socks off. But before we get to our guest, we need to set some tone.
• 1:43
  Jonathan McCoy: If you're feeling intimidated, if you're willing to have that lump in your stomach that Becky's telling you you're going to be a thought leader, you feel the same way, you know, actually.
• 1:49
  Jonathan McCoy: But here's what makes it feel less scary, is that it gives you a chance to really embrace your values, and really expand your mission in a completely different way than maybe what's on your business plan. Moving people and connecting people with the ideas may be one of the most powerful parts of you know, chasing your mission this year, because you're trying to get more people aligned with what you're trying to do and the way that you're going about doing it. And so by really understanding that you are stepping on this soapbox, so to speak, to galvanize supporters and to get people to understand alongside your journey really could perpetuate your mission in a totally different stronger way than you've ever seen before.
• 2:28
  Jonathan McCoy: And so this really brings us alive, so we can all become better at sharing and perpetuating our vision and our values across the internet.
• 2:36
  Becky Endicott: I mean, you know what I've been thinking about John, like thought leadership is the most authentic form of human brand ever. I mean, this is free marketing for yourself. And it is going to push to all the things that are important to you. And assuming that you have any connections in your life, anyone who loves you, anyone who supports you, they are going to care about the things that you care about, or they're going to at least look at it in tune in.
• 3:01
  Becky Endicott: This is an incredible opportunity for you to pour into the things that matter to you.
• 3:07
  Becky Endicott: And never before has there been a moment where the world is kind of hungry and waiting for you to do that. And so I think one of the things that I just want to explore right now is just understanding that leaders are found at every level, you need to learn how to be an empowering, trusted one, who's creating a culture of safety among your people in your organization. And so we want to start with something like John, what John mentioned, start with your personal values. Have you written those down? Do you know what they are? We talk about ours all the time, because everything is threaded back to it. And then the other thing I would say is thought leadership branding is so it's like trending right now it is so on fire. Tonya is going to break this down for us. But it's really about abundantly sharing your lived experience, your passion, all of your expertise.
• 3:53
  Becky Endicott: And you're doing it in a way that's incredibly authentic, transparent and vulnerable. And that is going to lead to building trust with the right audience on the right topic.
• 4:05
  Jonathan McCoy: And I really firmly believe that each of us has our own sphere of influence.
• 4:09
  Jonathan McCoy: And no matter in what circles you find yourself in, in your local community, but also, with people that you've met along your journey, each of us does have that opportunity to lead those around us and to speak into those that are listening.
• 4:22
  Jonathan McCoy: And so as we thread that, together with our personal stories, especially the stories that are happening on the front line of our missions, like there's a lot of opportunity here to start aligning resources aligning people behind this, and this is really what we're talking about today. It's no longer this era, although I don't know if there's ever an era of a silent Executive Director. Yeah, it's like that seat is not just someone that is pushing paper or trying to manage a team inside. They get to be really the face in the community, to whatever this problem is that you're facing and getting to lean into that and sharing that story through their own lived or personal experience that they see people interact like theirs real magic there to be had. And so we want to empower you. We hope this is an empowering conversation. And that leads you into community conversation about it. So where are you at in your organization?
• 5:10
  Jonathan McCoy: Can you sit down? And have this frank conversation of what do we need to understand what do we need to be equipped to be better prepared to go out the doors, and be this thought leader that champions this wherever we're at whether we're at Rotary, which Becky and I were at Rotary, literally like a week ago, which was a blast to a small room, you know, 15 people, or maybe it is your, you know, trying to really get in front of a lot of audiences at an industry conference or something big like that. There's opportunities every day of the week to plug in and perpetuate. And so I think that's why this conversation is so critical that everyone sees themselves in this.
• 5:43
  Becky Endicott: Okay, you mentioned Rotary, I got to share a story from rotary that that really dovetails in with this conversation, John, and I spoke at our local Rotary group here in Edmond, Oklahoma last week.
• 5:51
  Becky Endicott: And as we're preparing our talk about what is we are for good, what are we doing, we put in some thought leadership into the back end of that conversation, because we knew whether this was a community who understood what we were doing it or not, there are things that can be learned from this community. So we put some intentionality in there.
• 6:13
  Becky Endicott: And this is what we're going to challenge you with Thought Leadership is kind of pushing you outside your comfort zone, we challenged the group and we said, here are three ways that you can help nonprofits, you know, make your gift unrestricted check in on your staff, do you have a board seat and a nonprofit? And if you do, how long have you been sitting there? And does everybody look like you? Well, then maybe it's your turn to give up your seat and give it to somebody else. So that the experience and the board and the mission are representative of the people that we're serving? I swear, I saw an eyebrow go up when I saw that, but this is the new world that we're living in. And we're saying that thought leadership has the ability to socialize these ideas, make people stop, and think and question and lean in differently. And that is what I think is the power of thought leadership.
• 7:02
  Jonathan McCoy: Can I say to what I think was interesting watching that just play out in real world example is that it'd be really natural that we have a call to action at the end, which we did, it was like, Hey, come check out we are for good through all these channels. But the thing we wanted to leave people with, we knew that not everybody was our audience. But everybody could be open to this conversation for the bigger things that we're fighting for, you know, that what we call an impact uprising, like it starts at this grassroots level. And that's the kind of thing that really plugs you in and allows people to come alive, whether they are your ideal prospect or not, you can connect on those bigger value oriented things that you could really perpetuate. So thanks for bringing that up. I kind of forgot that happened.
• 7:40
  Becky Endicott: Oh my gosh, that was like it feels like 10 years ago, but it was actually six days ago. So what before we kick it to our expert, I just want to say one last thing, you know, part of thought leadership and the strength of it is understanding that it's not just your voice you're representing, you need to use your voice as an elevation and an amplifier ensure that everybody has a seat at the table, that all voices are can be heard. And that's really going to create some, some emotional intelligence that you're going to need to tap into. And so I think somebody who illuminated this so beautifully, it was our good friend, kushana Palmer, who says that being able to talk about transformation means being able to be self aware enough to be vulnerable enough and present enough in the current phase of your life. So you can lead from a place of a beginner's mind, is that not such a powerful quote, I just thought that that was something that was really tone setting, to say, even though this is your channel, your brand, whatever you're doing in your thought leadership, it has to be an inclusive brand, it has to be something that is bigger than us. And when we kind of check that ego and make sure that the brand is inclusive and bringing in more people, guess what that's magnetic. People want to be a part of an inclusive and uplifting space.
• 8:56
  Becky Endicott: So create that and your thought leadership is going to take
• 9:02
  Jonathan McCoy: off. So this is not thought leadership of the 80s or 90s people are pontificating. We don't really know what they're saying. This is meeting people at the very core in simplistic terms with the human experience like and no one does this better than Tanya Bhattacharya. I'm so excited.
• 9:18
  Jonathan McCoy: She's here today.
• 9:19
  Becky Endicott: Tanya has shifted our mind entirely on what thought leadership can mean and I know people are probably thinking this is already a cliche word and 2022. But if you are not leading into thought leadership, and I am talking to you young professional to this is not just a concept any longer. That is for C suite executives and people who have been in the industry for years, thought leadership is about what has your lived experience done and how can you contribute what you know and what you can give to the world? And who taught us that? Our friend Tanya Bhattacharya and we're just blessed to have you here.
• 9:53
  Becky Endicott: Welcome back, my friend.
• 9:55
  Tania Bhattacharyya: Oh, it's so good to be here. Thank you for that warm welcome every time I talked to you to join Julie, I just feel like I'm more warm, like enveloped in this beautiful warm hug. So thanks for having me back thrilled to be here,
• 10:07
  Jonathan McCoy: man. It's our honor. I mean, and if you don't know, Tanya, I feel like we need to just give a little bit of background that you have lived this. I mean, you were on the inside of a nonprofit fell into development, but then ultimately was an executive director for many years. And you understood that kind of power dynamic of the mission could really be bigger and bolder as we step in as leaders into our individual platforms. And then you stood up Lumos marketing, because you want to see women be really empowered in that. And that's where you really have focused.
• 10:33
  Jonathan McCoy: And so definitely go back and listen to Tanya's first podcast, you will hear us just the layers of unfolding of all, as Tanya, talk to us. And that's what I think that this conversation is, is that think about your mission bigger than what it is right now of using the voices to really power something beyond maybe how you're picturing it. So let's dive in. What is this whole thought leadership concept? You know, what, why is it important?
• 10:58
  Tania Bhattacharyya: Wow, well, first of all, thank you for claiming thought leadership as one of your eight trends, one of your eight important trends for the year because it's so is you know, and let me so let me try and define thought leadership first. And for me, it's an ever evolving definition. And I think it's interesting because thought leadership has a little bit of a bad rap, it has a little bit, it's kind of been bastardized a little bit. People think of it as like, the guy on the stage with in front of all these people, you know, top down leadership, and other people think it's like, just straight up marketing, like just content marketing. But really, I think it's a way of being, right, where we consistently tap into our passion, our talent, our experience, our credibility, to really build trust, and community because those are the those are the products of thought leadership, it's trust and community that allow us to really imagine and shape the future together for the better.
• 11:44
  Tania Bhattacharyya: For nonprofits. I think this is important, especially because they're able to really build a platform where they can really stand out as a stand up for their mission as a disrupter, as an innovator to educate people about their cause. And not just a cause, but the unique solution that they are providing specifically, and it's a little bit about getting in the limelight. Yes. But only because that light then reflects back on your mission so that your audience can like see the need it's reflected, and identify how they fit into supporting you and then become inspired to actually roll up their sleeves and take action. I mean,
• 12:55
  Becky Endicott: who doesn't want to be a part of that? Where would you say is a good place?
• 12:57
  Becky Endicott: For them to start? If somebody is really interested in this?
• 13:01
  Becky Endicott: How do we set it up? How do we start talking? How do we start gathering community?
• 13:07
  Tania Bhattacharyya: Okay, so I mentioned I was a Pisces, before we started with where we went live, right? So I have to get a little bit philosophical and dreamy. Before I get tactical, is that okay?
• 13:16
  Becky Endicott: Go for it.
• 13:18
  Jonathan McCoy: Always hear for Okay, so
• 13:19
  Tania Bhattacharyya: are you familiar with the parable of the three stone cutters?
• 13:22
  Becky Endicott: No. But I would like to know,
• 13:23
  Jonathan McCoy: I'm very Linden.
• 13:24
  Tania Bhattacharyya: Yeah, let me tell you about it. So okay, so imagine three stone cutters that are sitting in front of this huge slab of granite. And they each have a hammer in one hand and a chisel on the other hand, and they're just working away at the stone in front of them. And from, you know, it appears that all three of them are doing the exact same thing, the exact same activity, they're cutting this slab of stone. And so you go up and you ask the first stone cutter, like, Hey, what are you doing? And they say, Well, I'm carving some stone, you go up to the second stone cutter and they say, Well, I'm carving stone to build a wall. And then you ask the third one what they're doing. And they say I'm carving stone that will build a cathedral where my community can gather for worship. And so the activity is the exact same for all three, they're doing the same thing. If I take it back to the social impact sector and the nonprofit sector, we're kind of all doing the same thing. We're building relationships or writing grants.
• 14:13
  Tania Bhattacharyya: We're balancing budgets, we're speaking on panels. But the difference like if you bring in third stonecutter energy is that you're consistently relating it back to a bigger vision or Northstar and and not just bringing it back to that but really embodying and holding a larger narrative that inspires and transforms everyone you come across. Because I mean, which of those three stone cutters are you going to want to? Are you going to remember, like want to be in relationship with right, so to bring it back to the tactical, I think that the number one thing that people can do to really start this and develop their thought leadership is to get so clear on their vision, that they can not only just articulate it, but really embody it so that they're like a walking manifestation of the change that they're working towards. And it's nuts, not just in your content in your LinkedIn posts, but in your actions, right. And so I think some of the questions you can use to start verbalizing and thinking about what that vision would be is, what is your legacy? Right?
• 15:04
  Tania Bhattacharyya: What is your legacy? What injustice is are happening that make you mad, that keeps you up at night that break your heart?
• 15:11
  Tania Bhattacharyya: If you had a magic wand and you could make like one big hairy audacious wish for the world?
• 15:19
  Tania Bhattacharyya: What would it be right and as you land on that vision for yourself, and this is not like a 30 minute activity. This is like an ongoing, you know, really thoughtful activity. As you land on that you'll you'll just automatically start acting, becoming and embodying that kind of leader that makes those things happen. And one more thing I want to mention is I want to go back to how you talked about, everybody can be a leader, because I think that's so important. And that's, and that's a big myth of thought leadership, I really want to debunk it because everybody can be a thought leader. And it's not it's so again, it's not that like person on the stage talking a huge group of people. It's it's tapping into your true talents and resources and passion to move the world forward. And that might be through letters and really thoughtful donor cultivation, right? It might be through writing an e book or like a blog series. So when I started in the nonprofit world, I was a fundraising assistant. And one of my role was to do seating arrangements for these big little big gala kind of things.
• 16:13
  Tania Bhattacharyya: Big breakfasts. And so stonecutter one energy is like, Oh, I'm making name tags, right?
• 16:19
  Tania Bhattacharyya: I'm making name tags. But if you bring in that thought, leadership, stone cutter three energy, it's like no, like I'm, I'm healing addiction by putting together the CEO of this hospital, and the Chief Clinical Officer of my organization and this other person. And I know that if the three of them get to sit together at a table, some beautiful amazing thing is going to emerge that didn't happen before. And that and that is thought leadership to me, right?
• 16:40
  Tania Bhattacharyya: It's also that really thoughtful, intentional behind the scenes work. Right? That's not leadership to it. Every action is another chip or hammer at that stone that's building your cathedral of your vision.
• 16:56
  Jonathan McCoy: Hey, friends, this episode is presented by virtuous and they just happened to be one of our favorite companies. Let me tell you why.
• 17:00
  Jonathan McCoy: You know, we believe everyone matters. And we've witnessed the greatest philanthropic movements happen when you see and activate donors at every level. And here's the thing, virtuous created a fundraising platform to help you do just that. It's much more than nonprofit CRM.
• 17:16
  Jonathan McCoy: Virtuous is committed to helping charities reimagine generosity through responsive fundraising, which is simply putting the donor at the center of fundraising, throwing giving through personalized donor journeys. And by helping you respond to the needs of every individual. We love it because this approach builds trust and loyalty, your personalized engagement. Sound like virtuous may be a fit for your organization, learn more today@virtuous.org or follow the link in our show notes. Hey, friends, after meeting some of the most visionary leaders and world changers in the nonprofit sector today, we realized they all have one thing in common, they invest in themselves and their teams so they can stay relevant to what's working now to succeed and scale their missions. You know us we believe education for all, and that's when we created we're for good pro Pro is reimagining nonprofit professional development, giving you access to incredible live coaching events with some of the best thought leaders like Shauna Palmer, Lynn Wester and more.
• 18:09
  Jonathan McCoy: Imagine being able to work through your challenges in real time. That's the power of pro.
• 18:16
  Jonathan McCoy: Every week, we host a new workshop, giving you the playbook and tools to take immediate action, build your confidence and grow your impact.
• 18:20
  Jonathan McCoy: Be the Pro and get started today with a 14 day free trial head over to we're for good pro.com/free. Okay, let's get back to this amazing conversation. I just think of alignment every time we talk, I feel like alignment in what in the words that you share. And I think this in the context of what's happening in our country and around the world is people are, you know, asking some of those bigger questions and trying to find figure out what their purpose is figure out where they want to plug in. And I just think that there's a lot of people and maybe somebody listening is like ready to be awakened to this, like how can you align your the way you're showing up and whatever skills and gifts and talents you have with this bigger vision that you want to perpetuate. And I know you get to experience that because you obviously have this incredible podcast that you talk about these things and you've got all these clients that you work with, I mean, tell us an example or show us you know, how does this allow somebody to come alive and maybe it's your own story of what this can do for somebody?
• 19:21
  Tania Bhattacharyya: You know, I think the biggest thing it does is give them confidence which is different from what I initially thought when I first started this work, I thought it was gonna help people really get more PR opportunities, get more business, whatever. At least I thought that was like the initial thing. But what I have found is it's such a confidence builder, it just smashes imposter syndrome, because it catapults you into your zone of genius by nature. That's what this work is. It allows you to completely align your purpose and your passion so that every time you speak it's coming from is really aligned place of like what you were put on this earth to do. And everybody sees that right everybody sees that. So one example is I work with this incredible woman I love her so much. Her name is Mira and she has incredible nonprofit here in Orange County called elf extraordinary lives Foundation.
• 20:07
  Tania Bhattacharyya: And she works in the space of children's mental health and really adult mental health is also children's mental health because we're just all inner children that haven't been healed yet. And so you know, she was we did this work together right before a big gala that she did a big fundraiser and afterwards she said he turned me from Minnie Mouse into Mighty Mouse. I was able to get up in front of this huge audience of professionals and you know, ask for support and really aligned way where I would have been so afraid to do that before and not thinking like I was deserving to do that. And now, you know, it's just coming from such an aligned place that everybody can see that it's like, of course, we'll support you. Of course, this is a mission that's important to us, of course. But that really came from her stepping into her power and her thought leadership and just her true innate gifts.
• 20:53
  Becky Endicott: I love using story to illustrate this, because you're right, like stepping into your zone of genius, which is such a brilliant comment, I'm going to be using that. And I will even add to the fact that it is very much therapy for me to be in thought leadership, because it's going to challenge you to go inside. And it's going to challenge you to think about what matters to you. And if you're doing it really well, it's got to have a component of listening in there. Who else is talking about this? Who else is socializing it? Well. And then from that you're just building community. I want to talk about, like, tactically? Does someone start writing? You know, where do they begin, I, you are a whiz on LinkedIn. And I would really encourage everybody to go back and listen to Tanya's episode with us. I think it was in season three, where she talks about how to build thought leadership through LinkedIn, which is by far and away our favorite platform to show up on but how does someone start to socialize this? How do they start to grow community because they're probably already going to have some social channels.
• 21:59
  Becky Endicott: And then that's a part one in your twofer is how does the organization play into that?
• 22:03
  Becky Endicott: Because there's kind of you have your school of thought, the organization has school of thought there's gonna be definitely some synergy between the two of it. But there's going to be some things that you think about on your own that may have nothing to do with the organization. So talk about those two things.
• 22:20
  Tania Bhattacharyya: Yeah, I love that. So I think that the good tactical first step is to really think about because thought leadership is not just about being known. Right? In the world, it's about being known for something something specific, something that's going to change the game, change the world, really. And so I think the first step is almost thinking about okay, what do I want to be known for? What how do i niche down my expertise, like, what, what is the thing that I'm going to be known for, and so in, because you probably you multi passionate, amazing unicorns have a lot of topics that you are passionate about.
• 22:50
  Tania Bhattacharyya: And so I think that focusing your energy on one thing is just a little bit more useful at first. And knowing that niche will help illuminate your communication strategy, it'll help you figure out where you're going to spend your time, who you're going to spend it with, and the channels you use to become that thought leader. And so first, I want to talk about some of the questions you could ask yourself, and then I can talk about maybe some of the tactics you can use once you have those answers. So, you know, think about like, if you were suddenly thrust in front of a stage, or because that's no longer really as relevant. Like if you were suddenly dropped into a live podcast recording, what could you talk about at length with like, no preparation? What could you just gab about? Because it's like, so coming from your heart? What are your hobby interests? So like, where do you spend your volunteer time even when you're not getting paid? Right? And do you have a controversial ahead of its time point of view on something in any specific area?
• 23:47
  Tania Bhattacharyya: Like, do you have a hot take on a trend that could really, really change the world, if more people could could get down with this trend? Because remember, the difference between a thought leader and a subject matter expert, they're not the same? A thought leader is an action taker. It's, do they take that subject matter expertise, and consistently take action on it, take it outwards, into their communities, shaping the future for good. And so I think some of the tactical things you can really sit and think about once you have your niche is like, Okay, who else is working on this? Essentially? Who are your competitors? Who are your competitors? And I don't and I put that in quotes, because I don't believe in competitors. I only believe sales easier.
• 24:26
  Tania Bhattacharyya: There's who are the people who are working with my community in different ways, right? So what are the different things that my community is interested in? That I can take an interest in not not like on a in a fake way, but because all of these things emerge and exponential by each other, getting really abreast of what trends are coming up and how you can partner with other people in your community. And maybe that's where the organizational piece comes in.
• 24:54
  Tania Bhattacharyya: Because your organization has a board, it has a staff, we're all connected to their own sphere of influence. It has alumni, it has, I mean, if you're like a residential facility, like the place I worked for, you have a neighbor's right, you're maybe you're part of a membership organization of a larger national entity. So oftentimes, we stay so in our silo, we stay stuck in our bubble and we're like, we got to just, you know, keep our organization moving, but you don't just work for your organization, you work for your larger vision, and that's going to take partnering with so many different people and bringing together which is really a thought leadership activity, bringing people along so that Are your best thinking can come together and move that change forward.
• 25:37
  Becky Endicott: John did your mind just blow it the difference between subject matter expert and a thought leader because I have never thought of it that way, it is so true.
• 25:46
  Jonathan McCoy: And I do think like the power and we've seen this in just how we are for Good is rolled out there is so much more power in locking arms with people and working together for something and in learning and growth and evolving and all the things that are just imperative now and community that I just think what more could we do as nonprofits when we stop thinking of it as just a nonprofit, that you're just sidebars about this before we started, like, we can't think about things in such small boxes, you know, it's really holding us back. And this conversation is, I think showing this person that seems real self serving, which is building my own personal brand. But no, like, how are you using that platform to build these incredible relationships to lift things that are really vital?
• 26:30
  Jonathan McCoy: And see past the walls like this? Is? This is so powerful.
• 26:34
  Jonathan McCoy: Tanya is loving this conversation
• 26:36
  Becky Endicott: it is and can I hitch a wagon to that, John, because I have to take your idea and just run with it because I want to, there's something tactical that I want to share with people that I've that I've found, if you can't want to break down your walls, like start tagging people in your post, you know, start talking about I see people that you know, I learned this from this person, automatically, they're brought into the conversation.
• 27:00
  Becky Endicott: If you agree with this, follow these three people, I would love your thoughts on this and drop in eight names below. And all of a sudden, you've created community, you know, the second that you've hit the post button because all those individuals are going to be triggered to come in. And I think that if you can do that, well, that is how your community and your sphere of influence is just going to grow and the connectivity and the empathy that will flow from that is going to be such a humbling a great thing. Well, there's
• 27:31
  Tania Bhattacharyya: a piece there that I really want to touch upon. Because I think people may be in their headspace know that they should do that or know that they could do that.
• 27:37
  Tania Bhattacharyya: But something stops them. And I want to touch upon that a little bit more because I had a client friend who did a post about entrepreneurship. And it was amazing. And she tagged Sara Blakely actually. And she responded, she wrote like a comment on that post. And obviously it blew up. And it brought so much opportunity and investment opportunity and so much so many eyes and awareness to that to that person. And so I think so many of us, we think we're to something we think we're not enough, but we're just all human beings trying to like make the world a little bit better in our own sphere. And so by reaching out and bridging, bridging that gap, a lot of amazing things can happen it can I talk about imposter syndrome just a little bit more. I can't talk about thought leadership without bringing this up as a barrier. Because I think we can have the best strategy in the world, we can set aside time in our schedule to do it. But if we still have these, like it this persistent belief in our lack of intelligence skills, competence, individual ability to make change, it's gonna be really hard to lead into thought leadership. And I think that imposter syndrome imposter phenomenon plagues the nonprofit sector in a really interesting and unique way. Because so many of us are having to navigate these spaces of huge wealth, privilege and cultural norms we didn't necessarily grow up in, right, and I think it's magnified for people of color because of a multitude of intersectional systems. And so like, I'll just share a little bit a short story from my life.
• 29:02
  Tania Bhattacharyya: So you know, I worked in the addiction treatment space, and I was a fundraiser and so and I live in Orange County, so there were many days where I'd go to like a swanky, beautiful well outfitted Foundation office in the morning or an esteemed like prestigious government building or like a $30 million home in Newport Beach. And then the next thing on my schedule would be to accompany like an understaffed intake team to go pick up a young woman impacted by heroin addiction from like a shady hotel room in the afternoon. And so those two spaces and experiences couldn't have been further apart. And I think that's a microcosm of like this distance and discrepancy and this structure where so many of us as changemakers consistently are given signs that we are inherently less than, like we're Oliver Twist in line like begging for more girl like please gonna have some more like please can I have another grant like, please, but we have to remember like, we're the ones working in the trenches, day in and day out, and we know what works in real time. For the most part, funders are not the ones in the trenches with some exemptions. Our donors are not the ones in the trenches. Public policy officials are not the ones in the trenches, and they all have their role to play. I don't want to poopoo on them, like because we're all interdependent, right, but we are actually the ones with the wisdom gained from doing the work day in and day out. So I just really want to say more than anything else really, is that you don't need an Ivy League education. You don't even need an education you don't need to be born into general national wealth or have a fancy title.
• 30:34
  Tania Bhattacharyya: Those are you know, that's the itty bitty shitty committee talking if you have lived experience and passion and an ability to hold a vision, and bring people together around that vision, then your, your, your prime for thought leadership.
• 30:48
  Becky Endicott: Mic drop. Yeah,
• 30:50
  Jonathan McCoy: I mean, if this is not convinced you that everybody has a voice, you know, your voice is your currency, we all have that gift in whichever method you want to show up, you know, and I think the empowerment that's through that, and the world changing, that's the kind of hanging in the balance of us stepping into that. It's just really inspiring and something that I really hope challenges a lot of people Becky, did you want to jump in like your I think I just
• 31:14
  Becky Endicott: wanted to step into my confessional for a second about this and share, like a tiny slice for anyone who's trepidatious. Because I'll tell you what, guys, I was entirely trepidatious and resistant to coming into thought leadership. And John knows me so well, that he knows that when I don't want to do things, he has to plant things, and they have to germinate for years. God love you, John, for being so patient.
• 31:41
  Becky Endicott: But I remember probably three years ago, sitting at lunch at the sandwich shop with John and him talking about we are for good. And we were so on board about chasing we're for good.
• 31:53
  Becky Endicott: And he throws this little caveat gently. And you did it beautifully. John, it was like you're cultivating me as a donor. And he said, you know, if we're going to do this, you're going to have to lean into this thought leadership and you have things to say. And I was like, oh, Chauhan, I don't want to do that. I don't want the pressure of that. I don't want the having to keep up with it. And I went in kicking and screaming. And I have found in the last probably nine months that I resisted something that actually ended up giving me joy. And when I did it, and when I leaned into it, I found my people, this is not just something that's in my head, there are a lot of people out here who think like this.
• 32:38
  Becky Endicott: And then to your point, because I don't want to just be a subject matter leader. I want to be a thought leader, what is the action connected to that. And so I have to throw on one pro tip, that is something beautiful that you said, which is if you are a person of privilege, and you have thought leadership, let's start to break down the stigma of our marginalized communities not feeling empowered to come in, make an intentional effort to bring in bipoc voices, you know, people in the LGBTQ community. So thank you, John, for pushing me. Thank you, Tanya, for educating me. And guys, you got this, I hope it doesn't take you three years to get there like it did for me.
• 33:20
  Tania Bhattacharyya: I love what you said so much. And I have a little bit of a problem with the with the word or the phrase like voiceless people like so often we say like we're giving a voice to the voiceless, nobody's voiceless. It's just that some people like some systems and individuals have chosen not to listen to those voices. So I think this is a great opportunity to reverse that and listen to the voices because the people with the lived experience have the solution. Like that's something I know. Yeah, it's just it's like it's an Oprah thing. Like one thing I know for sure is people with lived experience, have the solutions out of the, the issues, right?
• 33:54
  Tania Bhattacharyya: And so we have to listen.
• 33:55
  Jonathan McCoy: Every time we're anywhere near your orbit, we just learn and grow and heart is very full from this conversation. So we can't leave without asking you your one good thing, what's something that we could implement today, it could be a mantra or a life hack that is really kind of lifted for you today.
• 34:11
  Tania Bhattacharyya: So what am I one good thing, it's actually also my word of the year. And it's very much I'm a student of a concept called emergence.
• 34:16
  Tania Bhattacharyya: Adrienne Marie brown writes about this prolifically. And I think her book emergent strategies should is just required reading for anybody in the social impact sector. And so emergence is defined as the way complex systems and patterns arise out of relatively simple interactions. And we see this a lot in nature, right? And so to me thought leadership is an emergent practice. Adrienne Marie brown refers to many examples, but one that just really sticks with me and lives rent free in my head, is the migration patterns of starlings of a flock of starlings. So start look like their birds and they're able to travel great distances many many many many miles by moving together in one big unified unit. But there isn't a main Executive Director bird in the front yelling out directions like left right faster, faster slow, so slow, like up down. Instead, each Starling each individual bird is responsible for being in right relation which each of the seven birds around it to listen to follow, to adapt to pay attention to lead based on the nuances of each of their partners, each of their seven partners. So each Starling is critical to the entire flock actually, they're called a murmuration to the murmurations ability to safely Like migrate and escape predation. And so to bring it full circle, like we talked about, in the beginning, thought leadership is not a top down thing, or trying to garner the largest possible audience.
• 35:45
  Tania Bhattacharyya: It's not about ego, it's about being in right relation to the people around you, and leaning into that interdependence so that you can build trusting, working exponential relationships, and it's about considering like the starlings do, like, Okay, who are the seven birds around me who serve the same people we do? And how can we partner together to make a greater impact? And how can we instinctively band together because we are feeling the vibrations of predation coming towards us. And for us, you know, that comes in the form of funding cuts, or a political crisis, or a workforce crisis related to this continued pandemic. But predation is coming for us too. And so it's about action oriented communication with the other people in your flock, the other birds in your flock and following the patterns that emerge. And that builds trust.
• 36:35
  Tania Bhattacharyya: And so emergence is my was my one good thing.
• 36:38
  Becky Endicott: I just think if you have gotten anything out of this, and you're curious about it, I have to give a plug for this. Tanya just started the most amazing podcast called The campfire circle, go immediately to Apple. And please go listen, because these are the topics she explores. Immerse yourself and then find some time to reflect and figure out how to actually make that an actionable part of your life.
• 37:02
  Jonathan McCoy: Yeah, I echo it too, and just really get into Tanya's world. I mean, she is got all this amazing resources through her website and just follow her on LinkedIn too, because he can see it in action of a community banding together in flying together with the beautiful example that she left us with. So thank you, this has rocked our worlds in all the right ways.
• 37:21
  Becky Endicott: So give us give us a little plug for where people can go and find you on your website as well if they want to look for some other resources.
• 37:29
  Tania Bhattacharyya: Yeah. 100%.
• 37:29
  Tania Bhattacharyya: So my website is Lumos marketing.co. That CEO Lumos is the spell for illumination in Harry Potter and it's also sometimes used to illuminate unseen doorways. And so I think that's what thought leadership is all about is finding these unseen doorways that you can step into and make some amazing magic happen. So that's the most marketing and then I'm all over LinkedIn. LinkedIn is my playground. And you can find me there under my name, Tanya Bhattacharya. And as you beautifully said, I've got that new podcast that campfire circle so any of those three things and again thank you for giving me out you guys are definitely part of my my murmuration your you two are definitely part of my seven birds that I'm just hanging out with, you know, just bobbing in the air with I love you guys so much are the best.
• 38:15
  Tania Bhattacharyya: Thank you for what you do for a sector.
• 38:17
  Becky Endicott: Oh my gosh, it is our joy and we just think that arise, you know, rising tide lifts all boats. So thanks for being in our tide in our boat as well. So go out there guys, you've got this.
• 38:29
  Jonathan McCoy: Thank you, friend. Thanks for joining us.
• 38:31
  Jonathan McCoy: Today's episode was brought to you by our good friends at auth zero without zero your nonprofit can do more with a login box.
• 38:38
  Jonathan McCoy: Free prospects and rabid fans of your mission with authenticity simply make it easier for your team to manage data. There's so much about zero login experience can do. Is it oxy ro.org For more info.
• 38:49
  Becky Endicott: If you enjoyed this episode, we know you'll love being part of the we're for good community. It's like our own social network where you can find like minded friends, ask questions, share resources and find inspiration anytime. Sign up today at we are for good.com backslash hello thanks friends