Latest / Authentic Living / Forgiveness Unveiled: Dara McKinley on Healing, Unconditional Love, and Emotional Resilience

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Forgiveness Unveiled: Dara McKinley on Healing, Unconditional Love, and Emotional Resilience · Authentic Living

0:01
Welcome to Authentic Living with Roxanne, a place where we have conscious conversations
0:08
about things that really matter in our lives.
0:12
And now here's your host, Roxanne Durhaj.
0:40
Hi, everyone.
0:41
It's Roxanne Durhodge.
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Thanks for hanging out with us again this week at Authentic Living with Roxanne.
0:46
Today, have Dara McKinley, and Dara's got a pretty interesting background.
0:51
Would say probably not one that I've done before, a topic on that I think we all need to
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learn a lot more about, and it's forgiveness.
1:00
So, Dara, welcome to the podcast, and I'm gonna tell you a little bit about Dara.
1:05
And then, Dara, she's gonna tell us what we need to know about her so we can so she's been
1:10
in the field of psychology and spirituality for almost two decades and faced a difficult
1:16
situation and had to kind of find a deeper understanding to get past it.
1:22
And, you know, she's researched things on the how to, and this is where she basically spends
1:27
her time today.
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And there'll be a full bio in the show notes.
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But, Dara, welcome to the show.
1:34
Thank you, Roxanne.
1:35
Thank you for having me.
1:36
A pleasure to be here.
1:38
So how many people do you kind of have step away from you when you go out socially, when
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you start talking about forgiveness?
1:44
How does the You're close Well, you're in New York, but it's one of those topics that's kind
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of, I would say it could be dicey in a lot of ways.
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I actually get people walking towards me more than I get people walking away from me because
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forgiveness, as we understand it in the Western psychology, comes with a promise that once you
2:10
are able to do it, that you will be liberated from emotional burdens.
2:14
And because most of us have been hearing about it from our earliest days, there's so many of
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us that want that, that have emotional burdens and want this spiritual teaching and spiritual
2:28
phenomena to relieve them of these burdens.
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So when people hear that I'm a forgiveness teacher, I often more often than not, they come
2:37
racing towards me and want to talk to me about what has happened to them and find out how they
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can forgive it.
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Well, that's amazing.
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I I would think it would be a a combination, but I think people are probably very open
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because I think we all can think of scenarios in our lives, myself included, where
2:53
forgiveness would would have helped the situation or helped us grow from it.
2:57
So let's back up before we get into forgiveness.
3:00
I want people to know a little bit about what got you into wanting to deal with forgiveness.
3:06
And I know we talked a little bit about it, but what can you tell us about what made you kind
3:11
of drill down and focus on such a thin edge of the wedge of a niche, really?
3:18
Thank you.
3:19
Yes, that's accurate.
3:20
So I was born in the Bronx, New York, and born a very spiritual little girl, and had my father
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was atheist and my mother was agnostic.
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And my mother had a lot of Catholic aunts and uncles orbiting our family and always saying,
3:35
you need to get her in Sunday school.
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You need to get her confirmed.
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And my mother very intentionally said, no, I'm raising both her and her sister, my daughters
3:44
to be seekers.
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And they're going to decide for themselves their own relationship with spirituality.
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And that's what I became.
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And I went on in my early 20s to I worked in community mental health and was just always I
3:58
lived in a very alternative city at the time in Colorado, where there was a lot of alternative
4:02
spirituality happening around me all the time.
4:04
I called it Vegas for alternative spirituality.
4:08
There was always some deep conversation, some introspective offering happening at every
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corner, it felt like.
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And that's where I spent my 20s.
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I ended up getting a master's degree in Buddhism and psychology and always heard about
4:26
forgiveness.
4:27
And I'm going to bring this up right now because I always wanted forgiveness to work in
4:32
practice.
4:33
So I'm very spiritual.
4:34
In lens, I'm very practical.
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And so forgiveness sounds like the most amazing idea.
4:39
And so whenever I said, Okay, well, actually, how does this work in a practical way?
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I could never make it work in a practical way.
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So I kind of just put it to the side that it was some nice religious ideal, but it really
4:50
didn't have legs that walked.
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And one day I was I think in my mid-30s, I was attending a universal church.
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And I would do this occasionally, go to universal church meetings on Sundays.
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And the pastor said, oh, I'm going to explain forgiveness to you right now.
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And I remember moving to the edge of my seat thinking, oh, wow, this is it.
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She's going to explain it to me.
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I'm finally going to understand it.
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And she said one thing.
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She said, forgiveness is to give forth.
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And I remember being disappointed, like thinking, oh, that's all you're going to tell
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me about how this works.
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But now from where I sit today, I look back on that moment and I'm like, oh, wow, she really
5:30
did tell me what it was in that moment.
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So in my early 40s, I lost a share of my part in a business venture I had with some people
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who I was incompatible with.
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And the loss really hit me hard.
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But at this moment in my life, I have two decades of psychology and spirituality behind
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me.
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So I thought, Okay, Dara, this is a huge loss.
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There was definitely a lot of deceit that went into the dissolution of the forgiveness.
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So there was also betrayal involved.
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So it was huge.
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But I thought, Dara, you have the skills to move forward.
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You're going to focus on your significant relationships.
6:07
You're going to process your emotions.
6:09
You're going to recreate your life.
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You're going to focus on gratitude.
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And I did all of those things for three years.
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And three years I was better, but I still noticed, and this would happen when I was
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washing the dishes or when I was folding the laundry, a negative narrative looping in my
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head that felt like I had been done wrong and that wanted justice.
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And while this is happening, I start to slide into a mystery illness that had the symptoms of
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anxiety, insomnia, and fatigue.
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The doctors couldn't figure out what was wrong with me.
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I had a three year old and a six year old.
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So it's like this perfect storm came together, and I started getting very upset.
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And I because I am a very spiritual person and I'm not psychic or anything like that, but I
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just feel this spiritual connection.
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I have felt it since I was a little girl.
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I had a down on my knees, what a lot of people would call a come to Jesus moment, where I
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implored the universe.
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Like, I'm very upset about what's happening.
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I need a sign.
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Please show me how to get through this.
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I'm freaking out, essentially.
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And the message I got back was to forgive.
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And I, like a lot of people when they first hear that message, I did not like that message.
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I kind of rolled my eyes like a teenager and thought, oh, how could forgiveness possibly be
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the answer to my problems right now?
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But the message was so strong that I said to myself, okay, Dara, you like to try new things.
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You're open to new perspectives.
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You have nothing to lose.
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This is 2012 when this is happening to me, October 2012.
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I said, get online, type in how to forgive, find whoever has written the how to forgive
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five step PDF, and follow it and see what happens.
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And I typed in how to forgive, and 99.9% of what came up was why a person should forgive
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and there was nothing about how.
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And the teeny bit I could find is some lone person on a forum screaming out, but how do you
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do it?
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And the response she was getting back was, you just do it.
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And so I closed my computer, and I thought to myself, I can't just do this.
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I really do need instructions.
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And so my next thought was, well, Dara, you do have two decades of psychology and spirituality
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behind you.
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Figure this out.
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And so that's when I took a deep dive into the world of forgiveness.
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Three weeks later, I was free of resentment.
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I was free of my negative narrative.
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I felt an inner peace I hadn't felt in a long time.
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And I had two thoughts that would change my life.
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And the first one was, wow, forgiveness is for real.
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This is a legitimate healing modality.
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And my second thought was, and that wasn't pardoning.
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Why does everyone say forgiveness is pardoning?
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And from that moment on, I saw the world and the world of forgiveness in a whole new light.
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And here I am today.
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So tell us what you've seen in your work.
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I think I can say in my career trajectory or business relationships or just personal
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relationships, there's a lot of people that they say, I forgive, but I don't forget.
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You know, they say, well, you know, because if I if I forget, I will allow it to happen again.
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You know, so there's a lot of people are walking around with a lot symptoms.
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Right?
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They they think they've let it go.
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But have they really?
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Right?
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And I'm just curious as what you've seen kinda in your work, seeing that you're you deal with
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people that are specifically coming through.
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How does it affect people when they when they can't forgive?
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Well, you are potentially walking through life dragging around a lot of emotional burdens that
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are creating skewed narratives and negative thoughts.
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And right, I hear that a lot, or I have heard that a lot, that like, I have forgiven.
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But you could see I'm an empath, and so I can feel what other people are feeling.
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So they would say to me, I have forgiven, but I could see how their body was still carrying an
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emotional burden.
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And so I guess this is the big point that I am inviting people to research and what I want to
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punctuate is what if forgiveness isn't pardoning?
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What if pardoning is the result of forgiveness?
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And the actual act of forgiveness is something else.
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Right now, people equate forgiveness with pardoning.
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And I want to also say that there's a lot of people who have survived wars and atrocities
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and really terrible things who have written books about the power of forgiveness as defined
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as pardoning.
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And I want to say that I believe these people, that pardoning for them set them free.
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I'm speaking for the huge demographic for which pardoning does not create a path for them to
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healing.
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And I was part of that demographic.
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And I see that demographic pretty much everywhere I turn, that pardoning actually
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creates an obstacle to forgiveness.
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So let's go down that road, because I'm curious about that.
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So somebody does something wrong to me, I say, I forgive you, which is technically pardoning
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the person.
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Right?
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That be how you would frame pardoning?
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So I would call that interpersonal forgiveness.
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So another way to kind of distinguish what I'm bringing to the table is that forgiveness is
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pardoning.
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Forgiveness is excusing something, a death, something that a person did.
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I use it all the time.
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If I'm late for something, I say, oh, please forgive me.
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I use it in emails.
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Forgiveness is pardoning.
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I'm adding a second definition.
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Like many words in the dictionary, I'm saying forgiveness has multiple definitions.
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And I'm adding another definition that helps people who are really dealing with huge things
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in their lives.
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Because forgiveness as pardoning works great when you're late to dinner or when you forgot
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to show up for something.
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It's no big deal to pardon small things.
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But when really big things have happened, all of a sudden, the pardoning becomes a hindrance.
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Because here, this person is feeling this huge betrayal, which brings on huge emotions, right?
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And they're doing everything they can to just survive that.
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And then comes this spiritual directive, forgiveness, saying, oh, and now pardon the
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person that has done this to you.
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And I actually think that that creates more of emotional burden than relieves an emotional
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burden.
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So what I would say is that forgiveness as pardoning is what I'll call interpersonal
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forgiveness.
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And here's the ideal scenario, like you said.
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You someone, you're standing there.
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Someone does something.
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You forgive.
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They apologize.
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You forgive them.
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There's this beautiful, emotionally healthy conversation that happens between the two of
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you, and peace has happened, and you move forward.
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I'm talking about intrapersonal forgiveness.
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And intrapersonal forgiveness is independent of the other person apologizing, of having a
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healthy conversation, of anything in your external circumstances changing.
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Because a lot of times, we can't change what happened, and we can't change the circumstances
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that we're in.
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And so does that leave you out of the forgiveness equation?
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Absolutely not.
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Your forgiveness is actually between you and however you connect to what I call God's love,
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divine love, unconditional love, and how you're able to use that.
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Works independent of how the external world and other people are behaving.
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So just like the word sounds, for anybody that doesn't know what the word intraperson means
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within myself.
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Right.
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The perception of how I experience what whatever has happened to me.
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So that, like you said, we could do the, you know, kinda the formalities, you know, I'm so
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sorry.
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The person you give up you know, you have words, you hug, whatever, and you you
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supposedly move on.
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But you're saying that the fig the definition that you have explored or now doing your work
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is more about us internally.
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Is it forgiving ourselves?
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Or is it a process that we go through in order to let go of whatever has happened?
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Right.
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It's a process that we go through in order to let go what happened.
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I define it as spiritual practice that heals.
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And the first ingredient to the equation is one's personal connection to that which is
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greater than them.
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And I often name that as unconditional love, divine love, God's love, the love of Allah, the
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love of Jehovah, the love of Jesus, however you want to define it, and how that love can be
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accessed and applied.
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Okay.
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So that's that I find fascinating.
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So tell us okay.
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So let's use let's use the word universal energy.
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So how so someone comes to me, they've been traumatized.
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Like I I I was just sharing with Dara offline that one of my specialties when I was
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practicing was complex PTSD, atrocities of kids under the age of five where you think of one
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case and it still comes to my mind today.
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It was a little girl and part of the abuse is that guns would be wired up to the doors of
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this home so the children didn't know when they entered a room whether a gun was going to go
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off.
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That's how horrific.
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So some we're talking about, you know, for me to remember this thirty years later kind of
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thing.
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It's one of those things.
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So tell me the process about, you know, obviously, people clear.
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Right?
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People people find a way.
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Because I always say, the one thing that doing that kind of practice taught me, Dara, was that
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human soul and resilience of how I think my patients taught me what real resilience was
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because I would listen to their stories and then I'd be like, wow.
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And then they've cleared it and they've dealt with it.
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It was sometimes awe inspiring because you think, wow, will this person ever get over
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this?
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So I understand where you're coming from when you say it's it's so much bigger.
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So with the scenario scenarios like that, and I it doesn't specifically have to be that
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scenario.
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How how is it that you you get people to a space or create the space for people to connect
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to that universal power in forgive?
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Order
17:03
Right.
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So I was, you know, as I mentioned in the beginning, I was born with a very innate
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connection to that universal power.
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And I'm not going to say that I'm an unconditionally loving person because I'm not,
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but I really was born with a felt sense of unconditional love.
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So some people were just born with it.
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Some people it comes through via family relationships.
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Some people it comes through connecting in nature.
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Some people it comes So basically what I'm saying now is that unconditional love is
17:30
flowing into our lives in some way.
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And that the first step in order to access it is to observe how it's coming into your life.
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It can come into your life when you look at your dog.
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It can come into your life through your passions.
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It can come into your life through theater, a symphony.
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It's basically the you just it's an opening.
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It's an expansive feeling that something bigger is at work.
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And then some people have dramatic experiences of it, like people who have had near death
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experiences, people who are devoted meditators.
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And you have to throw this in.
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People who do psychedelics have dramatic experiences of it.
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It's actually very exciting in terms of psychedelic therapy in its popularity now.
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And so many of these people do report that they get put in touch with a love that is you know,
18:21
beyond their mind's conception.
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So it's actually have you ever had an experience?
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I so I you know, it's interesting you hadn't thought about this.
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I've had multiple experiences.
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So I did Kundalini Yoga.
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Okay.
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And I'll give you an example.
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And people are close to me, but you know what?
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People that have been listening to this podcast for eight years will probably know a lot about
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me.
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So I obviously had lost my youngest sister.
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And, of course, you know, at that time, you're struggling.
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You're grieving.
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Like, none of it's making sense.
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Right?
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So I'm like, okay.
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And at that point, I'm practicing still.
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And my clinical supervisor says, you know, why don't you try Kundalini?
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Well, I have you know, I've done yoga over the years, kinda I touched on it.
19:07
Kundalini is a whole other level of yoga.
19:10
It's a it's a type of yoga.
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I always say it's my definition, which people might laugh is I I I it yoga on speed.
19:16
Right?
19:16
Because it's you know?
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And then because what it does is it does get you out of the conscious mind.
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And so I go into this thing this one day, and I'm having practice or whatever, and I hear my
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sister's voice.
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Right?
19:31
Like, I'm I'm like, no.
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My family, Dara, we're Trinidadians.
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We talk really fast.
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My my little sister talked really fast.
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And I'm going through this.
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So the practice is probably an hour and fifty.
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So you know you're tired and then you're and not everybody gets these, but in my case, I've
19:49
had a couple of experiences.
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And all I hear her saying is and I know I'm hearing her voice, and she says to me, Oh my
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God, oh my God, I miss the whole reason.
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I miss the whole reason, Rox.
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Wow.
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I miss the whole reason.
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Wow.
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The reason that we are here is to love, and I was surrounded by love.
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But I was chasing the wrong kind of love.
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Wow.
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And I'm like, am I making this up?
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Am I you know?
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Mhmm.
20:27
So obviously, I'm clairsentient, meaning I I received and that was the second time I'd had
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an experience like that.
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So that's how I've probably experienced what you know kind of the space you're talking
20:39
about.
20:40
Yeah yeah yeah.
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I was blown away and I'm like now me of course you're not supposed to talk after yoga right?
20:45
I want to talk.
20:48
Well thank you for They're all dressed in white.
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Wow, sharing that.
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That's such a meaningful, meaningful experience that you had.
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And, and I completely believe that that happened to you and it's evidence of the other
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side.
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I think it's connecting to the other side in that way is so important when we're traversing
21:12
grief, right?
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Like it really helps us move forward.
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And then the other thing I love about what you just told me is that you were in a Kundalini
21:20
yoga class.
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And so this is, you know, one of the things that I or how I try to explain the human
21:24
experience to people who are taking my course.
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It's like we have our cognitive brain that is here that has been trained extensively trained
21:32
to navigate the external world.
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But from our nose to our toes is another brain.
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It's called
21:40
That's a good way to put it.
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And
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it has tremendous spiritual assets and spiritual capabilities.
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What Kundalini, in my opinion, what it does is it ignites it all.
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It fires it up.
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It gets us out just as you said, it gets us out of the brain that's up at the top of our heads
22:00
and gets us into the second brain.
22:02
And then we actually have profound, as you just illuminated, spiritual connections that bring
22:09
us incredibly important information that help us move forward.
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It helped it helped me it helped me heal because, of course, I was in, you know, in the
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middle of grief, and I I thought and and oh, the last part of her message was go out in
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love.
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Wow.
22:27
Go out
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in love.
22:28
Wow.
22:29
And and that was it.
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And then her voice was gone.
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So so if that space, you know, is what you're tapping into, how do you tap into it?
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Like, I mean, I said I use Kundalini.
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How do
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you Right now, as you're telling me the story, do you remember the feeling that that moment
22:45
broke?
22:46
Absolutely.
22:47
Absolutely.
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I was
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oh, no.
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I was like and it was a second time, but it had I obviously, I was in grief as well, right?
22:54
And then it was profound because of course I was feeling I was like raw.
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I was raw.
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And then there was a calm.
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Of course you have to go through grief, right?
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But there was a calm that came over me because I felt like she had given me a profound message
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and I'm still here.
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And that this was such a big you know, we always hear about that, right?
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Love makes the world go round, but it's another thing to feel like you've gotten this profound
23:24
message.
23:25
And it helped me heal.
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It really did help me heal.
23:29
So I get what you're saying.
23:30
Can you feel it right now while you're talking about it?
23:33
Yeah, absolutely.
23:34
Okay.
23:34
With my body, with my body.
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Right.
23:36
Okay.
23:36
So bingo.
23:37
This is so not only was that this incredible spiritual experience that you had so right now,
23:44
when I often ask this question to people who are interviewing me, and I love this
23:49
conversation.
23:50
It's one of my most favorite conversations to have.
23:52
And the variety of answers, but they're all so profound and meaningful.
23:59
Right now, it's like you were doing this Kundalini class, and you had this incredibly
24:04
healing spiritual experience happen to you.
24:06
And so right now, most people are in a how would I say it?
24:12
You things happen that bring the truth of this love to us, right?
24:18
And so we're just kind of lucky.
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Like, you you would almost say like, I got lucky in this Kundalini class that I opened up
24:25
and were able to experience this incredibly healing moment, right?
24:28
So I'm inviting people to actually understand that we can be intentional with the feeling
24:37
that you feel right now in remembering this story, that that actual feeling that's pulsing
24:42
through your body as you're telling me that story of unconditional love, that's a medicinal
24:47
force.
24:48
And that medicine can be applied to things that we would like to dissolve and be free from.
24:59
So it's not like I my most dramatic experience of experiencing unconditional love just
25:05
happened.
25:05
Also, I was meditating in some shrine room, and all of a sudden, I was completely taken over by
25:10
it.
25:10
And I in the book Eat, Pray, Love, she my favorite part of that book is Elizabeth Gilbert
25:16
talks about how she meditated for hundreds of hours.
25:19
And then finally, on this one day, it completely took her over and it lasted like
25:25
five minutes.
25:25
So that's how we're often hearing about the merger of our human experience with
25:31
unconditional love.
25:32
It's like, it's this fleeting thing that blows our minds and changes our life but it's just
25:37
kind of like coming through like the wind and what I'm letting teaching people is like,
25:42
actually, no, that force, even though it the magnitude for which we felt it in those peak
25:50
moments is always accessible to us.
25:53
And it's always something that we can reach for and apply.
25:58
That's step one.
26:00
Yeah.
26:00
Because I think when you are so stuck in whatever you're going through, you're in pain.
26:05
You're in emotional pain, right?
26:06
So to be able to think that there's an ability to access it, to feel that comfort is an
26:14
amazing thing, right?
26:15
Right.
26:16
And so right now, the current definition of forgiveness kind of implies, or the mainstream
26:20
definition of forgiveness implies that when we're in these really incredibly difficult
26:26
moments of grief as you just illuminated, or betrayal or trauma, that us being
26:33
unconditionally loving in those moments is what will set us free.
26:37
And I'm going to argue that that's actually almost impossible for most people to personally
26:45
conjure up unconditional love when you're basically swimming for your life to survive
26:51
really difficult moments.
26:52
So I say to people, forgiveness is not our ability to be unconditionally loving.
26:57
It's our ability to enlist unconditional love.
27:00
So however, should a person see how it's flowing through your lives, like you, and just
27:07
as you described, you can actually reach for it.
27:13
It's something outside of you that you can say, I need you to come into me right now.
27:19
I need to use you in this very difficult moment.
27:23
I need you to saturate me in this huge love that you are so that I can begin to heal.
27:31
Or in my what I want is complete healing is the path I take people down.
27:37
So it's almost like an anchoring.
27:39
And I don't mean to trivialize it, but it's if you can drop into that to work through whatever
27:45
has happened with time, you just have a
27:48
different It's an now wouldn't say it's an anchoring.
27:50
I'd say it's a delegation.
27:52
That's what I that's where Smith.
27:55
Forgiveness is a delegation.
27:57
Delegation, yeah.
27:58
Forgiveness is something you
28:00
delegate out.
28:01
You delegate out versus kind of run it through the same neural pathway.
28:05
It's something different.
28:07
You're calling on a higher
28:09
love and a higher experience to intervene and to do what it does.
28:17
And I teach this in a very practical way.
28:20
So when I, I'm not just saying, I teach people to create a forgiveness equation where, let's
28:25
say so for example, in the story that you talked about with the guns, whoever set up
28:30
those guns, was it the father or the mother or both?
28:33
Father.
28:34
The father, right?
28:35
So here's the father, who's obviously a very disturbed person.
28:39
So you would call up in your mind's eye, which is the mind's eye very much has to do with the
28:45
brain that's between the nose and the toes.
28:48
So that part of your body has the files that you need to heal.
28:53
So you would call up an image of this father in your mind's eye.
28:57
And then you would also be in this scenario as well.
29:03
Once you have a somatic experience of unconditional love, like you just described
29:07
with the story with your sister, it's like, can I take that feeling in my body and saturate my
29:14
young self?
29:14
So let's say my five year old self who is subjected to this terror in my household, can I
29:21
saturate my young self with that love and have that love remove all the pain and suffering
29:27
that I felt in that moment and have it then cloak and protect me?
29:32
Step one.
29:33
Step two, can I have that love saturate my father, who was a very disturbed man, remove
29:40
all of his pain and suffering that obviously created all these horrible behaviors and
29:45
protect him in a cloak of unconditional love?
29:49
So you're not doing the forgiving, you're enlisting a higher love to do the forgiving.
29:56
Yeah.
29:58
Interesting because Dara and I were talking about EMDR, which is a somatic reprocessing.
30:04
It's, know, it's, I would say it's however you get there, right?
30:08
It's that tapping in and I've seen some amazing things in EMDR, like stuff that I never thought
30:14
possible, like, with trauma and stuff like that.
30:17
Like, there was one scenario I remember.
30:19
It was a woman, and she had a a rough relationship with a with a mother.
30:25
And she was having a conversation with the mother, like, going through one of her
30:28
memories.
30:28
And and she says, Then my dad got up from bed, and then he came down, and he hugged me, and he
30:36
said, it's gonna be okay, love, or something on that context, and then went back up to bed.
30:43
And I said, no.
30:44
I'm not not through the process.
30:46
It gives you you're not gonna stop the flow.
30:47
You don't have that rolling EMDR.
30:49
And then I said after we were kinda closing off and she's telling me what I said, by the way,
30:55
wasn't your father paralyzed?
30:57
Wow.
30:58
And she goes, yeah, all my life.
31:01
Wow.
31:02
So again, these deep things.
31:05
And I said, she goes, yeah, my brain wherever I went made me make him walk so I could let go.
31:13
Right, and so that's another point I make to people because I'm really all about all things
31:18
that heal and I love any modality that delivers tangible results, I am in love with.
31:26
And so I'm basically throwing forgiveness into the arena of a modality that yields tangible
31:31
results.
31:32
But I love what you're illuminating right now, and I just wish I could sound it out to the
31:38
world on a megaphone, is that we're all anatomically designed to heal.
31:43
That experience that you just described, we all have the ability to create those healing
31:50
scenarios.
31:52
It's really about getting deeply in touch and having faith in that brain that's between our
31:58
nose and our toes, because that brain has the material.
32:03
It knows what we need to hear, what needs to happen in order to heal.
32:08
And yeah, I agree with you that EMDR is a really powerful modality for bringing us down
32:13
into that arena.
32:15
But we all have that arena.
32:17
And so we're not here to suffer tragedies and then become bitter, angry, resentful, and
32:25
potentially sick from carrying the emotional burden for the rest of our lives.
32:30
We're actually here to go into this other part of ourselves that is equipped to regenerate us.
32:38
I would say we all will have painful experiences, but there is no need to suffer for
32:44
the rest of our lives with whatever's happened.
32:46
That's what I would, you know, I would say to people all the time because it's so true.
32:49
Because you do see it right out of there, Dara.
32:51
You see people suffering.
32:53
And, you know, if they were to find the right way to kind of, you know, like you said,
32:58
release or delegate or whatever, you know, the term we were using to let it go.
33:05
You know, there's so much around us that, you're so right, that is just pretty amazing,
33:11
right?
33:11
In support of that of our healing.
33:14
I think that healing is the number one thing the universe wants for all of us.
33:20
And so and that when we step forward, then the universe comes in in a very strong way to
33:26
support us to do that.
33:27
Like all of a sudden, the resources and the therapists and, you know, when I first stepped
33:31
onto the healing path, I was making $12 an hour.
33:34
And all of a sudden the insurance company kicked in so that I could pay for the
33:38
therapist.
33:39
It was like once I said, yeah, do want this, the resources came forward and said, yes, we
33:44
want this for you also.
33:46
So let's say that they're leaders or people that, you know, are working with companies, and
33:52
they're dealing with people that you know?
33:56
What would you tell them about, like, offering a benefit like this?
33:59
What what would be a reason for a company?
34:02
Because, look, when we go to work, we bring ourselves with us.
34:05
Right?
34:06
And we get triggered by conflict, which brings up old things.
34:10
If a leader or leadership team is thinking, you know, we have a lot of conflict and we have a
34:15
lot of angry people walking around or people that are hurt, What couple of steps would you
34:21
tell them to take?
34:21
I would say supporting employees to do healing work is probably one of the most creative
34:29
investments any company could have put their money into.
34:34
Because on the other side of surviving emotional burdens or enduring emotional burdens
34:41
and then projecting your emotional burdens and buying into negative narratives of emotional
34:46
burdens, the other side of that negative, what's the word un generative place is a well
34:54
of creativity.
34:56
Like most people, if we and probably a research study needs to be done on this, who have gone
35:03
to the other side of the healing and truly feel relieved of their emotional burdens, all of a
35:10
sudden feel their creative energy coming forth in this huge way.
35:14
And I think most companies like that's the best employee, right?
35:18
Is the creative employee is the one who's coming up with solutions and who is being
35:24
innovative and who is thinking outside the box and who is also grateful to the company for
35:31
supporting them in their healing journey.
35:33
So it really feels like they want to be on that ship.
35:36
I'm aware I think I won't mention the company right now, but I'm aware of companies that
35:41
really do invest in this piece.
35:43
And their companies and their employees are so happy to be working for them.
35:49
And the company will not stop investing in this because they see the morale is off the charts
35:56
for them.
35:58
Which which, you know, I talk a lot about with kind of the ROR.
36:01
Right?
36:01
Because, like, if you're talking of intrapersonal, which is facilitating a capacity
36:06
for people to heal.
36:07
Right?
36:08
And then and we all wanna be happy in our day to day lives and we spend most of our time at
36:14
work.
36:15
So if people are suffering, of course it's going to block them to be able to access what
36:21
they need to, to move the needle, to come up with the big idea, to come up with the
36:26
unpredictable solution that, you know, would something nobody would come up with.
36:30
We all want employees like that.
36:31
So I think you're right.
36:32
Innovation, right?
36:33
So doing this kind of work allows people to be innovative.
36:36
If you have an employee listening right now, right, and they're in dire straits in that, or
36:44
someone just listening anywhere in the world internationally, and they're struggling with
36:51
something that, you know, is profound in their life, what words of advice would you give them,
36:58
Dara?
37:01
I would say to them to, I say to make sure that the three loves are up and going and the three
37:09
loves are relational love.
37:11
Make sure that you have people in your life who truly see you and support you and want your
37:17
soul to unfold in the best way possible.
37:20
Make sure you're surrounding yourself with these kinds of people.
37:23
And then the second love is self love.
37:25
And I would say, make sure that you're saying to yourself all day long and every day, you
37:31
will get through this.
37:32
You absolutely are worth it.
37:35
And once you get to the other side, like you will feel an empowerment that you had no idea
37:41
that you could feel.
37:42
And then the third one would be unconditional love, you know, like make sure that you're
37:46
connected spiritually right now or at least investigating how unconditional love is
37:52
possibly appearing in your life.
37:54
And so I'm speaking to the atheists and the scientists right now and all the tech people
37:59
who say, no, no, no.
38:00
The world is just a science based place.
38:04
And so I'm going to challenge and say, actually, no, I think unconditional love is
38:09
pouring into your life in some way or something, a bigger expansive feeling is in
38:13
your life in some way.
38:15
So how, where is it happening?
38:18
And above all, that you are anatomically designed to recover and so go for it.
38:26
Don't hire the therapist, read the books, find the online gurus who are the niche in your
38:34
field, find the person who has the online community that's organizing the people who have
38:39
gone through what you have gone through, what you're going through.
38:43
And take it very seriously because it's the biggest in my opinion, it yields a tremendous
38:48
ROI.
38:49
You know, don't we need it at this particular time in the world?
38:53
That message that you just are espousing that we need to be able to reach to something bigger
39:00
to heal so that we can get through the time that we are going through globally with lots of
39:04
different things in the world.
39:05
Right?
39:06
Right.
39:06
Right.
39:06
You know?
39:07
So I
39:07
think No no one needs our fear right now.
39:09
Right?
39:10
That's the last thing
39:10
we need.
39:11
No.
39:11
We we need the opposite.
39:12
Right?
39:12
We need the opposite.
39:13
You know, every time you turn on the telly and, you know, hear something else, then we kinda go
39:18
back into that that place of fear.
39:20
Yeah.
39:20
Our intuitive creative energy is the greatest asset right now.
39:25
And so we need to do whatever we can to have it flowing through our bodies.
39:30
Absolutely.
39:31
Absolutely.
39:31
Well, this has been an amazing conversation.
39:34
And Thank so you for this incredible conversation.
39:37
Wow, always say I have the best guess.
39:41
And everybody that comes on, I'm so grateful because I learn and I know without a doubt that
39:49
when people listen to this, they will gain something.
39:53
And there are so many people out there in pain.
39:56
Right?
39:56
So you probably have touched a lot of lives that you're not gonna realize.
40:01
But hopefully, we'll be able to hear from them the impact that you've made.
40:05
Well, and I couldn't have done it without you, Roxanne.
40:07
And quite honestly, I want you to know that I'm very touched by the fact that you are merging
40:12
what it is to recover from some of the most difficult things that a person can recover from
40:18
with corporate America.
40:20
Like that is genius.
40:22
So thank you.
40:24
Well, do think that
40:25
was very bold.
40:26
That was very bold.
40:28
And I thank you for doing it.
40:30
Thank you.
40:30
Thank you for your time.
40:31
Okay.
40:32
Thanks having me.
40:33
Am I walking away with?
40:35
You know, that I always say this.
40:37
It's so funny, right?
40:38
You know, I say we cut our hands.
40:40
If we get a cut and our body knows how to do it.
40:46
Right?
40:46
So it's the same thing with the rest of us, our emotions and our psych psychological.
40:52
So just recognize, like Dara said, we have that universal ability to heal, And it's, you know,
40:58
it's something bigger than us.
41:00
So to take that away.
41:01
And if you are struggling, reach out to that therapist, to that coach, to that community,
41:06
like Dara said, there's always someone there to give you, you know, it may not be like, the
41:11
final step, but then at least give you the first little step to to recognize that there is
41:15
there is healing out there.
41:17
And for everyone, I'm doing my first course on the ROR book starting around June, and I would
41:23
love if you would come out and hang out with me.
41:26
Just reach out to me at Roxanne@RoxanneDoraHodge.com, and I'll give you
41:29
all the details.
41:30
Again, Dara, thanks so much, and you have a great day.
41:33
Alright, everyone.
41:34
Take care.
41:35
We'll chat soon.
41:36
Thanks for tuning in to Authentic Living with Roxanne, creating the space for positive,
41:42
healthy change.
41:43
Roxanne is a keynote speaker, psychotherapist, and coach.
41:47
To work with Roxanne, visit roxannedurhaj.com/blueprint.
41:53
We'll see you next time on Authentic Living with Roxanne.