Latest / The Big O Podcast / The Big O Podcast - Bonus Pod: Pats win instant Recap
Transcript
- Glenn Ordway: A bonus pod coming your way after another Patriots win over the New York Jets. I'm Glenn Ordway, Sam Ordway, my son on the other window for you. And not a great game for New England. I think Mike Vrabel said it best at the end. A lot of mistakes. They did not make progress from a week ago. Now, I told you, Sam, I thought before this game you and I talked about it, and I said, I think this is going to be a much tougher game than people think. One I think the Jets are better. Now there's still the Jets. They still find ways of screwing up. But they're better. They're better defensively. And, you know, they've got some weapons out there. But the killer, I think, for the Patriots in this game, they lost three offensive linemen. Now the negative is Moses, Vera Tucker, Ben Brown all look like they were more than significant injuries. But the the backup guys, I thought did a terrific job. Of holding up that defensive front because that's where the Jets are strong, right up the middle, and especially against the run. So again, even though Vrabels told us earlier in the year that he didn't think this was a real deep team, I do think they keep on coming up with that next man up mentality, and they get guys who are playing pretty well. Sam Ordway: Yeah, I mean I thought the O-line gave Drake May a lot of time today. He had a lot of time to throw the ball. you know, I don't want to get all too doom and gloomy because they did win this game, but you're right, it wasn't a perfect performance from the Patriots, especially the offense. You know, there were a lot of drops today that, you know, you you can't have against a team like the Bears who are going to score a lot of points against you. Now obviously you got some some injuries in the in the front line, and that's a concern here going into A quick turnaround game. Glenn Ordway: Thursday. Sam Ordway: is that in Chicago? In Chicago, yeah. Glenn Ordway: In Chicago. Thursday night game. So you're traveling on Wednesday. You don't get an awful lot of practice time. I don't think you're gonna see any of those four guys who were injured. It might have been more than four, but I don't think you're gonna see those four guys because I include Romeo Dobbs into that list. I don't think you're gonna see them Thursday night, Sam. I don't. Sam Ordway: Yeah, and that's gonna be a a tough game because you you need everybody that you can get. I would say that's probably the the best offense that they're gonna have to play so far this season. Right? I mean they haven't played an offense like this. Glenn Ordway: Yeah, they've been they've been very good. I I don't think Chicago was great defensively, but you know, they've got an offensive-minded coach and they get Caleb Williams back and they put up a lot of points against Atlanta. So yeah, I think that's going to be a real test for the defense. before we get to some of the negatives, and there were a bunch of them today, even with a W, Corey Kiner had a breakout game. I saw him a little bit when he was in Arizona with the Cardinals, but he hardly played. You know, he was playing late in games when the game was over. And the Cardinals have a lot of games where the games are over by the end of the third quarter. And he had a big game. There were crucial runs he had. He was their leading rusher in this game. And they needed him because Stevenson really struggled and then Henderson drops the ball. And it's Corey Kiner. that wore out the clock in that fourth quarter that allowed them to walk off with that victory. Sam Ordway: yeah, he played great. And I would say, you know, that's really the story so far for the Patriots this season is, you know, they've had a lot of injuries and they've had guys come in and step up. And that's you know, if you're Mike Vrabel, you know, that's a that's a good thing to know that you have an identity with this roster and and they step up to the plate. I thought another guy, Demario Douglas, Pop Douglas, whatever you want to call him, he he played great today. I know that that fumble Glenn Ordway: Unfumble. Sam Ordway: late in the game, still great catch and he was able to get open. many times during this game. and that's good to see, especially when you see some other guys have some some perfect pass attempts from Drake Mae just kinda drop it. So Glenn Ordway: Yeah, they needed but they needed Douglas in this game because Dobbs left early after he had the touchdown pass. He hurt his shoulder apparently when he came down and hit the turf. And then AJ Brown had an just a miserable day. Now I'm not going to get on A.J. Brown, and I'll tell you why. Because I said this to you W No, I but I said this Sam Ordway: He hasn't played a full game. He hasn't played a full game with this team yet. Right. Glenn Ordway: to you when he went out and he was injured, and people were talking about four games. I said, with that injury, that'll take eight games. For him to come back and be a hundred percent. So I'm not gonna be a hypocrite. I said it at the time, and there was no question that he was struggling out there. He had two drops. The first one was right in his gut, and he should have had it. And then even on the onside kick at the end, this is something where he's usually the security guy. He has it and it pops loose. And thank God Pop Douglas, the guy that you just mentioned, was able to get the, you know, his hands on it and game over. But AJ Brown, I I think this is gonna happen for a while and I think it's gonna be difficult for him to bounce back in four days with that injury and you know, high ankle sprain and go out there and do anything in Chicago. Sam Ordway: Yeah, it w it's gonna be overall, it's just this is a quick, tough turnaround game. And as I just mentioned, this is the toughest offensive opponent that the Patriots ha will have played up to this point, and possibly even the entire season. I mean, this Chicago Bears offense is dangerous and they score a lot of points. And listen, today the Patriots made a lot of great plays down the field, but there was also a lot of shooting themselves in their own foots. And you can't have that against a team like the Bears who score a lot of points and, you know, take advantage of the opportunities that they get. Glenn Ordway: That's good point. You can get away with it with the Jets because they are the Sam Ordway: Right. Glenn Ordway: Jets. I mean, the Jets played well, except the Jets made your typical bad Jets plays. And, you know, they're driving down the field and then suddenly a stupid penalty, or suddenly, you know, they they they they cough up the ball or whatever. you know, you can look at the quarterback, and he's been clean all year long, and he had his first interception today. So So let's get to Drake May. I thought it was a good day for Drake May. He made some terrific passes, but it wasn't what we saw last week. It wasn't a a a great game out there, but I I thought there were some good moments out there. So I didn't see I wouldn't call it any regression with Drake May. I would just say, he was he was pretty good today, right? Is that fair? Pretty good. Sam Ordway: No, I thought he played I thought he played pretty outstanding today. I don't I don't have much to Glenn Ordway: I wouldn't say outstanding, I would say pretty good. Sam Ordway: I don't know. Well, I'll say this. He had a lot of time today from his O line. His O line I thought played perfect today. and listen, when he has a lot of time in the pocket, he's able to make some beautiful throws down the field. And I thought he took advantage of that today. I don't think there was a lot there that, you know, we've seen in previous games where he's turning the ball over, fumbling it. We didn't see those today and and You know, when if that doesn't happen and he has enough time in the pocket, he's able to do things pretty well. And I thought he did that today. Glenn Ordway: Well, the one thing I told you before the game, advantage for New England's defense was no Brees Hall in this game. Yet Braylon Allen had a field day against that Sam Ordway: Good. Glenn Ordway: defensive front. And he extended plays. So initially he get five yards, and the next thing you know, it's second and two. He ends up with eight. And that is just, you know, not good pursuit, not good tackling. And He became a real thorn in their side, I thought, today. And that caused problems because that kept the the Jets on the field. It kept the drives alive. Sam Ordway: Yeah, I actually thought the Jets offense played better than their defense at points today. I thought the Glenn Ordway: I I agree. I agree. Sam Ordway: defense had a lot of plays where they just kind of collapsed and and fell apart. especially that one touchdown to Hunter Henry in the red zone. And and then when Glenn Ordway: Lost him. Sam Ordway: it came to the Jets, they just couldn't score in the red zone. You know, they had they'd good field goal kicker, but they can't they can't score touchdown in the red zone. I thought the Patriots defense played solid today, didn't didn't play great. But neither did the Jets. I mean, this was both both both teams in this game felt like they were just shooting themselves in the foot, even to to the end there. Like the Patriots or the Jets should have got that onside kick, to be honest with you. Glenn Ordway: Yeah, but I I thought the anticipation going into this game was after what they did a week ago, people are looking at it with the Raiders, people are looking at it and saying, Well, these are the Jets. You should walk all over the Jets. And I said to you before, I I think the Jets are far more competitive. They're not good enough. They've got a mediocre quarterback that has not made an awful lot of mistakes, didn't make one today. Doesn't make an awful lot of mistakes, but he's not gonna put you over the top. They got a running attack and that help them out. But the Jets are far more competitive, I think. I don't know how many games they're gonna win, Sam, but I think they're gonna be in a lot of games during the course of the season. And there's where the disappointment came to me with the Patriots when you talk about the Patriots defense. Yes, they made some big plays. Ponder had another big play on that on that sack, okay? He's had a terrific season so far. So Sam Ordway: yeah. Glenn Ordway: you saw some really good plays, but I don't think you saw consistency out of the defense. I don't think he saw consistency out of the offense. And I think that's what Vrabel was talking about at the end of the game. The we didn't go, you know, one step forward. You know, we we kind of took a step back here. And I think that's what they did today. And you're right, a very quick turnaround Thursday night, you're sitting there saying, Okay, they're going to face a much better team, a much better offense, certainly. What are they going to be able to do? Especially if they're down four guys because you said it best, th they've done a terrific job of next man up and getting help from their bench. You can't continue to do that every week. Eventually it's going to catch up to you. And that's why Thursday night's game scares me. Now, I think when you get Thursday night's games and and that's why we've had so many bad Thursday night games, all bets are off because there's so little preparation time. That both teams go into it kind of like half-assed. Well, what are we doing? Are we doing this? Are we doing that? And so game planning for a specific team with that quick a turnaround is not easy. It isn't. And so, you know, anything can happen Thursday night, but I don't know about you. I'm not looking at Thursday night's game with an a an optimistic eye after this. Sam Ordway: Yeah, I mean it's g it's gonna be an interesting matchup. As you just said, for both teams it's a quick turnaround, so you know, it makes it a little more of a weird game to go out there and predict. but all I know is that this is a t this is the best offense that they are you know, have played yet. So it's yeah, yeah. Glenn Ordway: Well, and the most creative, I think, too. You know, I th there's no question about it that this is, you know, and Ben Johnson has kind of changed everything in Chicago. This is a much different offense. Now, there's difficulty when you get to the second or third quarterback and that's what they were faced with, but Caleb Williams is back now and I guess we're gonna see him on Thursday night. So and he's one of those guys I think That can make something out of absolutely nothing. I don't think he's a consistently good quarterback yet. He's very young. So we have to see how this plays out as he matures. But he's the type of guy when everything breaks down. Remember the playoff game last year where he had that unbelievable throw that was a a touchdown? He can he can find a way of saving a totally screwed up play. And that's a little bit scary. So I think he's unorthodox and he's probably difficult. to defend against with a defense, especially with a quick turnaround. Sam Ordway: I mean, he had f he went thirty for thirty-six today for three hundred yards. He's he he's he's a legit he's a legit quarterback. This is not a scrub. This is you're Glenn Ordway: Three hundred and five yards, I think, yeah. Yes. Nope. Nope. Sam Ordway: playing the best offense that you played all season. This is gonna be a tough game in Chicago. but it's gonna be an entertaining game. You know, I think the one thing that you said, you talked about consistency, and I I guess Frabel brought it up. in terms of their offense, like this is a Patriots offense that is really reliant on making that one big play downfield, and then You know, the rest of the game, they kind of have trouble putting together a consistent drive. And I think that's you know, when you play against Chicago, it's like, yeah, you're gonna need the big play, but you also need a consistent drive on offense rather than just, you know, going three and out after scoring a touchdown downfield, with Drake May throwing a forty five yarder. You know, they they need a consistent drive on offense to be able to win these type of games against a a Chicago Bears offense that scores a lot of points. Glenn Ordway: Yeah, and you know, they could have left some points out there on the field today. Raredon drop one in the end zone. Gotta make that catch, son. And I know you're a rookie. You gotta make that that catch. On the rear end of of the end zone, May's throwing it right where he needs to throw it. And you gotta hold on to that. But they were able to get it to Douglas right after that for a touchdown. So that didn't cost them at all. I thought they came out really poorly in the second half. and that was when we had the two AJ Brown drop passes. The first one was inexcusable. The second one, at least, you you could say that, you know, Stevens did a really nice job defending him. but again, that cost him. That that cost him points because that's when the Jets took over and they ran it in three plays, sixty yards, a minute twenty four and put seven up on the board. And suddenly you're looking at this game saying, wait a minute. It looked like, you know, the Patriots had this one kind of in hand. And you get the ball to open up the second half and now you're suddenly looking at all of the ment momentum shifting. So that kind of made it a funky game for me as well. Sam Ordway: Well, right. I mean that they really relied on that big play from Drake Made to Romeo Dobbs in the end zone. And then after that their offense kind of became a little shallow. the Jets started to get some life back. Obviously the Patriots, I think, ended the game with a little spark of offense, especially running the ball, but they need to be a little more consistent, offensively if they wanna, you know, be a legit team in the playoffs. Glenn Ordway: And we had an extra point missed as well today, which could have somewhere down the road been Sam Ordway: Another one, yeah. Yeah. Glenn Ordway: been a little bit scary as well. so yeah, there were some good things here, but there was some other stuff you're looking at and saying to yourself, it just wasn't clean. And I think we're waiting for that to happen. And I think some of what we saw last week with the Raiders had to do with the Raiders defense because the Raiders defense other than one great player in in Max Crosby, who can cause havoc, and I thought the Patriots offensive line did a good job with them. their secondary is really weak and you can throw against that secondary. I thought today they were challenged by a better defense. And until, you know, late in the game where where Corey kind of started running the football effectively And getting some big plays, you know, in in crucial second and third downs. against a very good defensive front for the for the Jets, again, they weren't really moving the ball against that unit. So really your third string running back came in and gave you a big, huge lift. Now, the the good side of that is maybe they have more depth than anybody thought, including the coach thought they had this season. The bad part about that is The guys that you're depending on have got to be a hell of a lot better right now because you can't keep on a asking the scrubs to pick your ass up every single week. You can't do that. That eventually catches up to you. So let's see how that plays out going forward. But those injuries today look pretty bad. Pretty bad. And going into this game on Thursday, you're not gonna have Dobbs, I don't think. You're you know, what are we gonna get out of AJ Brown? on on Thursday night. I'm not expecting an awful lot. Hopefully I'm wrong, but I think it's gonna take him a few weeks to get acclimated. And people say, well, you know, he's still dealing with the high ankle sprain. Well it's beyond that. It everything with with you know receivers and quarterbacks is timing. And I think his timing is off right now. He hasn't he hasn't done shit for the last four weeks, you know? He he couldn't. No, it didn't. No, it didn't. Yeah, Sam Ordway: Yeah, it's it did not look injury related today. It just did not look like he was on the same page. That's simple as that. Glenn Ordway: I I thought he looked fine running out there. Sam Ordway: Yeah. Glenn Ordway: He sh Sam Ordway: He got open. He got he got open space. Glenn Ordway: Yeah. You know, but they got some some other guys that came up and you talked about Pop Douglas. Pop Douglas had himself a I thought a reasonably good game, other than, you know, dropping that ball one time. But they had three fumbles in this game, Sam. They lost two of them. but they had three fumbles in this game. And it wasn't Drake May, at least. We can say that. He wasn't responsible. But that concerns me a little bit because if you drop the ball three times against any decent team, and as I said, I think the Jets are a decent team. I'm I'm not laughing at this year's Jets. I usually have a you know a few belly laughs every year over the Jets. This is not the Miami Dolphins, okay? This is not, you know, a real shit team. This team has got they got some elements. I don't know if Glenn is the right coach for this team. Though he seems to have put together a much better defense this year, he still hasn't beaten an AFC East team yet. He's over seven now against teams in the division. But they're at least competitive. And I think you look at the schedule, they're gonna face some competitive teams. Maybe not as great as we thought that schedule was going to be at the beginning of the season. We looked at it and said, my God, this is an unbelievable schedule. Chargers don't look like they're scary, do they? I mean, Kansas Sam Ordway: Ugh, they look awful. Glenn Ordway: Yeah, Kansas City might be as one on your on schedule. I don't think Green Bay is what we thought they were going to be. Detroit probably not defensively, Detroit not good right now. So, yeah, maybe it isn't as tough. But these but you can't drop the ball three times. You gotta play better than this if you're gonna take a run through the schedule. And I think looking at the schedule when you and I were doing it before the game, I think they can win twelve, maybe thirteen games. But not playing like this today. I don't think that will happen if they play like they did today. Sam Ordway: No, and that and and that's why I think they probably walk away with this one feeling pretty good, because they did shoot themselves in the sh in the in the foot many times today. As you just said, three turnovers. You can't you can't have that. And they still pulled off this win and obviously the Jets shot themselves in the foot as well. but that's I'm really looking forward to this quick turnaround Thursday night game against Chicago. This is well, I I I'm just this is a an interesting dynamic to see how legit the pit the Patriots defense is going against a a top offense in the league and a quarterback who's on fire right now. Glenn Ordway: Yep. It's a real it's I think it's a real challenge. So in that respect, I would agree that it's going to tell you an awful lot more about this Patriot defense. Because I think there are signs that this defense can be very, very good. And certainly they've got individual players who who who stand out. And, you know, Gonzalez gave up a couple today, but let's face it, you know, it's it's difficult to catch a a a pass against Christian Gonzalez. But I don't think the defense is through the the first how many we played, five, six games. I I don't think it's shown consistency that you need to show. I I look at some other teams, I look at Seattle, look at some other defenses, and I say, that's a that's a defense that just can go out there and just crush you. You know, they just they just they just stop you. We're not seeing that. We're seeing that at times. We're seeing it and I thought they did it again today. So they're giving up a pass here, they're giving up a long run here. And then the next thing you know, there's a a a third and long and they make the stop. Okay. And they force the Jets into a field goal instead of continuing the drive for to get seven. So there are moments that they have in which you're sitting there saying, this team, this defense could really be very, very good. And there are other moments where there are some breakdowns and they've got to clean this stuff up. And I think that's what Vrabel was talking about at the end of the game. It's a matter of Cleaning a lot of this stuff up. So, yes, Thursday will be a challenge. Thursday will be one of those, and we'll give the Patriots this. Just when you think maybe they're not as good as you thought they were, that's when they kind of come out and have one of those type of games. So is it possible? Thursday night, they go out and they play at a really high level? Yeah, I think it is possible. But they were down to their last offensive linemen. in this game today. They're gonna have to find bodies now. Sam Ordway: Yeah, in a short amount of time. Glenn Ordway: And I don't know where you find those bodies. They got a couple of guys on the practice squad, so they bring them aboard because you're gonna have to take somebody off the practice squad. You can't bring in first of all, you can't find offensive linemen out there in the street. They're either not good enough and they're young and not good enough, or they're old and they're probably if you're bringing them out and they haven't played at all this season, you're taking them off the couch. They were watching the game on TV this this week. And those guys Sam Ordway: It's a lot to learn too. Glenn Ordway: Yeah, that's it. Trying to learn the scheme, trying to learn what they're doing, the terminology, the place. that's a a mission that I I think Mike Vrabel's gonna have to deal with in the course of this week. But a win is a win. So you chalk it up into the left-handed column, and it really is it's a math problem in the end, Sam. It's trying to get as many of these Check marks in the left handed column so that you can get a high enough seed so that you can do some damage in the playoffs because you don't want to play on the road to the entire playoffs. That is never a a formative road, ever. Sam Ordway: Right, and you rather have this type of performance where you win earlier in the season, but also, you know, face some adversity throughout the game. That's that's the type of performance you wanna have, so you know what to what to look forward to in the next week. But now of course they got a lot of they got a lot of injuries, so that's what makes it ten times more interesting here. Glenn Ordway: Well, it it'll be crushing if we find out that, you know, the three offensive linemen are going to miss considerable parts of the season or all of the season. I would say this, I thought Ben Brown's injury looked the worst. So Sam Ordway: Yeah. Glenn Ordway: I would I would say he is probably questionable to come back at or at least come back in the next four or five weeks. He's probably out for time. For Tucker did not look good and when Sam Ordway: Moses just kinda I don't even know what that was. It was like a little he was back pedaling a little bit and then it just kinda it's like his ankle just gave out or something. I don't know. Yeah. Glenn Ordway: Turned on him. Yeah. Yeah. And it I wonder if it's was that the same thing? Didn't he do something like a couple of weeks ago and had an issue? I thought he did. So Sam Ordway: Yeah. I mean he's up there. He's up there in age, so it's Glenn Ordway: Yeah, but if you lose three offensive linemen and you you've you've already lost some, so Sam Ordway: Yeah. Well, especially how they've been playing too. They played great today. O line played pretty great today. Drake May had a lot of time. Glenn Ordway: I I I agree. I agree. That I think that's part of the game story here is that May had plenty of time today. And he did well when he had plenty of time because he was able to think Sam Ordway: Yeah, really well. Glenn Ordway: through it, make great decisions, and throw the ball effectively. but yeah, I thought the fact that they had lost all of these offensive linemen and this is a really good defensive front, that's where the Jets strength is. on the defensive side of the ball, including that kid Bailey, the the outside linebacker. That kid's really David Bailey, he really good player. And so, but I thought the offensive line, considering everything else, was one of the things I would say was a real positive in in today's game. Sam Ordway: Definitely. Yeah. Glenn Ordway: No question about it. All right. Thursday night, we will do it again. And Sam Ordway: And what do we we got a we got a Celtics game, right? On Tuesday? Home opener? Glenn Ordway: We have a Celtics game on Tuesday, so maybe we'll do some Celtics stuff this week too, Sam. Maybe we'll start and pick up some Celtics game. Sam Ordway: Three PM early game. Glenn Ordway: it's ridiculous. It's three o'clock on a Tuesday afternoon. I mean, talk about Sam Ordway: Yeah. Glenn Ordway: the Celtics losing respect from the NFL. So they have a bunch of games. They have three. what did I say? okay. I mean, I'm into the football season right now. Sam Ordway: MBA, NBA, Ronk Sport. He said NFL. But it's all right. We were just talking about the NFL, so yeah. Glenn Ordway: Tuesday. Tuesday, I'll get the terminology correct. But they're doing three games. And of course the Celtics get the the the the slap game. They get the three o'clock on a Tuesday afternoon. Who's gonna watch that? It's a national game on NBC. Across the country, people aren't gonna watch that live. It's gonna get a small audience. And they're going up a well, Sam Ordway: Yeah, Celtics fans will watch it though, we'll watch it. Glenn Ordway: Celtic fans will watch it. They'll they but you can watch it with your phone now. You can watch it anywhere, and Celtic fans will watch it, but it won't get, you know, the ancillary other audiences out there that that like NBA basketball. It's too bad. But yeah, we'll get into a lot of Celtics starting this week. Notice that in the final preseason game, four of the five guys that started in that final preseason game got cut right after the game. They did. They they did pre Sam Ordway: And they played pretty well. They won they won the game too. Sucks. Glenn Ordway: you don't learn anything in preseason. I I've I've gone through this with you a million times in any sport. So Sam Ordway: No. In any sport. In any sport, really. I mean. Glenn Ordway: anybody and people are doing it. They're getting hyped up. they fit and Paul George fits. Stop it. It's preseason. You gotta go through twenty, thirty, forty games before you really find out an awful lot about your team and whether this guy fits with this guy in an off season trade. So the preseason you learn absolutely nothing. But we will do some basketball this week. We'll do some Patriots on Thursday night, of course, with the game in Chicago. All right, Sammy. You have a a Sam Ordway: All right. Glenn Ordway: good one. Catch us this week with the big old podcast. We got more with Pete Shepherd and we get the OMF guys coming back as well. Make sure you subscribe and make sure you like us. Apparently we get, you know, like a a a medal or a pin or something if you like us. I don't know. That's what they tell me later.