Latest / The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination / Ep. 256 ~ Converging Timelines

Transcript

Ep. 256 ~ Converging Timelines · The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination

0:03
Remember like Bob Clark and Doug Campbell, they actually devoted the show what was
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it called The Lives of Right Show. Yeah, what an embarrassment. I
0:16
mean, everything is going to hail down here in Decton. No no,
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no, no, oh, hell yeah. What's up everybody, it's your
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boy. The trip will be the biggest, the baddest of Bob's Rob Clark
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here with you with the Lone Guming Podcast episode number two and fifty sixer,
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Folks. Before we get into the show, I want to hit a couple
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of things. We're out the jump street here. Everything has been resolved with
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YouTube. I want to say. You know, I've heard these horror stories
1:47
that that that people have about YouTube and you know, their Hitler esque style
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of you know, ruling every everything. But I will say this, the
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issue I had with them was resolved in two days favorably for me, so
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in them. So that's good news. Everything is as it was and as
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it will be on YouTube. No issues there. That's why you'll see episodes
2:23
going up over there still. So where everything is all good, folks.
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Everything has been resolved. I mean, it's it's understandable they have these uh,
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you know, automatic programs and bots and everything that scan all their content
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for various things, and you know, something hit on there for me.
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I appeal to a human being at YouTube, and they responded very quickly.
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Like I said, within two days, my appeal worked out and all is
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right with the world again in the land of YouTube. So and also I
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want to let you know, since that is all good now, plans to
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move forward with the show are still in full effect. So if you have
3:10
not already, head to YouTube, subscribe to the channel and click the bill
3:15
to get notified when new episodes drop. Okay, this show will be going
3:22
live after the sixtieth anniversary. Okay on YouTube. Nothing is going to be
3:30
affected here on the audio stream, you will still get your show released,
3:36
and you will still be able to hear me in podcast form in your ears
3:40
without having to look at me. I understand if you don't want to,
3:46
but if you do, the show will be in video form. It's gonna
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be live, and it's gonna be on YouTube, and you don't have to
3:53
watch live if you can't still be deal, It'll just record itself and then
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you can watch it at your leisure. But I thought it would be a
4:01
cool way to Internet interact with everybody in real time, and be able to
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show you guys documents, you know, things like Clem Bertrand's library card,
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so little things like that. I think it's gonna be a new and exciting
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time for the ongoing podcast to move forward, because, as I've said before,
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be presenting it Lancer this year. We're doing a show about the Martins,
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me and Joe Borelli, and we only have an hour to present,
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but we have probably thirty hours of material. So we're gonna be going into
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a lot more in depth about our Lancer presentation on this show after Lancer happens,
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because Lancer will be getting the exclusive information. So if you haven't already,
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head over to JFK Lanscerpublications dot com, secure your registration, book your
4:59
FLA to Dallas. If you can't do that, go to a Assassination Conference
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dot com and you can watch virtually. I do believe that is the correct
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link. All right, got a very cool show for you today. I've
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got it. Came across a document that tries to collate all known information streams
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according to a timeline for Lee Harvey Oswald between six thirty am November twenty second,
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nineteen sixty three and twelve thirty pm November twenty second, nineteen sixty three.
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And it's very interesting because you can see where these streams get crossed at
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times. You can understand why things get confused or convoluted at times. And
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I'm not sure who did this to me, it seems like an HSCA document,
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but I could be wrong. Stamped on it it says CIA has no
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objection to declassification and overlease of this document. So this may be a CIA
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document, an internal CIA document. I don't know, but I think being
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able to look at this and go through it will help illuminate Oswald's movements from
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six thirty am to twelve thirty pm that day until the time, the fatal
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time when JFK gets shot in Dealy Plaza. But before we do, my
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buddy Bob has some words for you from Silk City Hot Sauce. Baby,
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Greig bad Vibe here with you for Silk City Hot Sauces. Why Silk City,
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Because this hot sauce comes to you directly from Paterson, New Jersey,
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the product. All other hot sauces are sourced in small batches from locally bought
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fresh peppers. It's all about the pepper people telling you your boy, big
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bad Bob loves his food like he loves his women. Not spicy, but
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not so hot you can't eat them. So if you love yourself some sauce
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and you are tired of trying to transform your bland meat into something edible with
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a tip of a jar, you will transform your life forever. Tread over
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to Silkcityhotsauce dot com, place an order, and upon check out, enter
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the code Gutman. That's knew you N M A N for twenty percent off
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of your entire order. You won't regret it. Thank me later peace.
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Well, yeah, thank you, Bob, Thank you Bob. We love
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Silk City Hot Sauce around here. We put it on everything just about.
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I love it on my eggs in the morning, I love it to add
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it in my chili. I put that shit on my tacos yep. And
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when I cook my meat, whether I be frying it, grilling it,
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or bacon it. I drizzle a little bit of Silk City hot sauce all
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over it, just to infuse a little flavor into it. You don't know
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what's there if you can't taste it. Folks, nobody likes land meet,
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so take it from your boy, Big bad Bob. They'll get you some.
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It's delicious, and you also help to support this very show that you
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love so much. All right, enough of that, Let's get right into
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the document. All right, So, as they explained to you before,
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this takes us twenty timeline of the morning of November twenty second, nineteen sixty
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three, in Lee Harvey Oswald's life. Now the first hour, we're gonna
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be jumping all over the place because apparently there's information streams coming into this timeline
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from all over the place. So let's get right into it. So this
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is uh seven am, and we will be jumping around and coming back and
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jumping around and coming back because you'll understand why in a minute. But okay,
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so we're starting about seven am. Oswald leaves his wedding ring it missus
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Payne's residence, where Marina finds it after the police come in the afternoon.
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And I guess this is according to certain commissioned documents that they put in here
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twenty three Caldon for seventy seven. Marina says that this is the first time
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that he has ever left it one page seventy two to seventy three, Volume
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two, eighteen three fifteen, Volume twenty two, seventy sixty four, twenty
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three three nine contradictory statement, Volume twenty four two thirty. So does Oswald
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give his USMC emblem ring to Detective Sims. That's just amusing. That definitely
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didn't happen at seven am on November the twenty second. Now, when it
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comes to Oswald leaving his wedding ring here, apparently you know this. This
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statement was made and filed in different places, but there apparently was a contradictory
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statement somewhere. And then we have Oswald leaves Missus Pain's residents at seven am,
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which is earlier than usual. And this came from Time magazine, February
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fourteenth, nineteen sixty four, Page nineteen. Recall that Oswald is seen at
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Hutch's grocery, eight tenths of a mile from Missus Pains on several mornings at
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seven am and then we have ten three twenty nine, twenty six one eight,
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Marina says that Oswald has a small package, not talking about his junk,
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folks, get your minds out of the gutter. Marina says that Oswald
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has a small package with his lunch sack when he leaves Missus Michael Payne's residence
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at clay Shaw's trial, Marina says that she does not see Oswald leave.
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According to the New Orleans Times pecun on February twenty second, nineteen sixty nine,
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So there is a contradictory statement. First of many, just a heads
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up. On November thirtieth, Marina says that she does not know how of
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anything that Oswald takes with him. She does not recognize the bag found on
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the sixth floor of the Texas school Book Depository, and neither does anybody else
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because this giant, it's huge. Oswald could have put Buel Fraser in the
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bag and carried him into the Texas school Book Depository with its bag. It's
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so freaking big. Okay. On eleven, twenty three, sixty three,
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Oswald denies that he takes a package to work. On November the twenty second,
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Okay, we jumped to sevent ten am, Missus Randall, that's Lenny
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May. That's Buell. Fraser sister folks. Missus Randall sees Lho with a
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two foot or over package wrapped in brown paper with some weight to it.
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She watches him put it in Fraser's car. Lho comes to the window and
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creepily waves at the Randalls and Fraser as they're trying to sit at the breakfast
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table and eat breakfast. Fraser leaves with Oswald shortly after. According to a
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Secret Service interview of eleven twenty eight with Missus Randall and commissioned Document eighty seven
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and Secret Service Report one seventy five DASH two, also seven ten am to
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seven fifteen am, Missus Randall, Wesley, Fraser's sister with whom Fraser lives,
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sees Oswald approach the Randall residence in a light brown or tan shirt.
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Okay. According to this document, Oswald is carrying a long package. On
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twelve one, Missus Randall says that it's only about twenty seven inches long.
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On eleven twenty two, Missus Randall says it's approximately three feet by six inches.
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That's thirty six inches by six inches. According to commissioned Document five three
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twenty and no jacket wearing no jacket seven twenty am. West Fraser that's Buele
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sees Oswald looked freequily in the Randall's kitchen window seven twenty am. Also,
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Marina sees no signs of Oswald having had breakfast in Missus Payne's kitchen. Oswald
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puts the package on the back seat of Fraser's car, and Fraser indicates that
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the package is about two feet long. According to all these documents, on
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December the first, Fraser indicates the package is about twenty seven inches long,
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which is about three inches long longer than two feet. Oswald calls this package
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curtain rods. According to these documents, Fraser Fraser says sack is like one
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coming from a five and dime store. According to FBI Report and Commission Document
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one five and Commission Document five, page three seventeenth, Fraser and Missus Randall
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testify that the package is about twenty eight inches long. This is from The
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Washington Post twelve one sixty three, section E, page four. Michael Pain
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that estimates length of blanket bundle in garage is thirty seven inches. According to
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these documents, thinks rifle is in one piece. Pictures of the bag and
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rifle with a tape measure are in twenty two four eighty FBI lab. Fraser
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testifies rifle is forty point two inches overall and breaks down into thirty four point
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eight inch and twenty eight point nine inch opponents. So of this forty point
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two inch rifle, it cannot be broken down below thirty four point eight inches.
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Therefore, any bag smaller than that could definitely not have contained the man
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liquor Carcano rifle accused of shooting the bullet or bullets that killed President Kennedy and
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winded John Connolly. Seven twenty five am Fraser and Oswald leave the Randall residents
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and Fraser's suitet nineteen fifty four black four door Chevy Sedan nineteen sixty three Texas
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license plate VK thirty nine two six according to these documents. Now, when
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I say these documents, that just means there's a long list of numbers that
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really mean nothing to us here. So when I say according to these documents,
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it basically is commissioned document you know, twenty four called on two two
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three one nine three, page four oh eight. Well, just a bunch
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of crap. So when I say, according to these documents, that's what
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I mean. Oswald does not bring his lunch and tells Frasier that he is
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going to buy his lunch today. According to this document, on eleven twenty
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three's the day after the assassination, Oswald said his lunch was only was the
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only package that he brought to work on November twenty second. November twenty second,
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nineteen sixty three, it was a Friday. Yeah, we know that
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Oswald spends the night of November twenty first into the twenty second at Missus Michael
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Payne's residence in Irving. According to these documents, on eleven twenty two,
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Marina says that Oswald leaves before she or Missus Payne are awake. Yet I
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want to live in twenty two, Missus Michael Paynes says that she is asleep
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when Oswald leaves. On to eleven twenty two, Marina says that Oswald is
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gone when she gets up. On eleven twenty eight, Marina says the alarm
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goes off at six forty Lee Harvey Oswald gets up at seven am. Marina
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does not get up, though she talked to talk to Leek, but she
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talked to Lee Harvey Oswald and said goodbye, etcetera, etcetera. According to
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a Commission document, I want to eleven thirty. That's November thirtieth, folks,
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Marina says that the alarm goes off at six forty and wakes her up,
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but not Oswald, and that she nurses the baby and awakens Oswald at
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seven am and tells him to get the fuck up. On nine eleven sixty
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four, that's a whole year later. Marina says she does not get up
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when Lee Harvey Oswall does, nor does she fix his breakfast. You're on
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your own, buddy, I'm nursing the baby over here. Get your ass
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up, you're gonna be late for work, make your own breakfast, and
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get the hell on. Oh yeah, well, here's my ring, lady.
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I'm gonna leave it right here, and I'm gonna leave this money for
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you. Miss. Michael Payne says the Marina is nursing the baby when Oswald
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gets up at six thirty am. According to Red Book. In July of
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nineteen sixty four, Hey klay Shaw's trial, Marina testifies that I was awake,
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but I did not get up because he told me to stay in bed,
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according to the New Orleans States Item February twenty first, nineteen sixty nine.
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Now you can see from all those statements right there, folks, coming
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from the same sources, you have multiple answers just about how they woke up
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that morning. Okay, it's madly frustrating when you're trying to figure out the
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true events of the day when you have just from these two or three witnesses,
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including Ruth, Marina and Lee, exactly who got up, who was
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up, what day eight did they talk? I mean, you know,
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it's all over the place. But we're not done yet, so let's get
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right to it. Marina to the FBI on September the fifth, nineteen sixty
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four. According to Commission Document fifteen forty six, A. Lee Harvey Oswald
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prepares no documents similar similar similar to one at the time of General Walker's shooting.
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Now you'll remember, folks, if you go back in time. All
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of a sudden, after the assassination, Ruth Payne finds this letter to Marina,
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supposedly written in Russian, from earlier in nineteen six three, when Oswald
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allegedly was going to go shoot General Walker. He he left Marina a letter
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and basically walked her through everything that she needed to do if something happened to
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him. So he did that then, But he did not do that for
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this assassination attempt of the president. Okay, Lee Harvey Oswald's unusual actions and
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then, but only in retrospect in pentheses, leaving a wedding ring, telling
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Marina to buy needed articles for herself and the children, and visiting on a
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Thursday night instead of Friday. Uh see, Lee Harvey Oswald never intended to
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kill President Eisenhower. I don't know where that came from. But Okay,
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d Warren commissioned asked FBI to ensure no property of the Oswald. Hey,
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I'm reading it right, folks, asked FBI to ensure that no property of
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the Oswald as of eleven twenty two to sixty three, the existence of which
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is unknown to the Warrant Commission still remains in the possession of Marina, Robert
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Michael, or Ruth Payne, or any other person. On September eleventh,
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nineteen sixty four, Marina has asked for all such property except clothing and correspondence
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from Russia since eleven twenty two, sixty three, The items produced were thus
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four books in Russian for the study of English, one Russian to Polish dictionary,
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one registration card at Richmond Freeman Memorial Clinic for Junior Oswalt. One appointment
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slipped for June Oswald at Freeman on eleven twenty one, sixty three. One
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appointment slipped from Marina to Dallas County Health Department on November twentieth. Russian name
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tag for June Oswald at birth, one photo of mister and Missus Alexander Zeiger,
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Eleanor Zeiger three Oswalds, one photo of Eleanor Zeiger and Anatole Kulodoff in
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Minsk on May of sixty two. F Marina received no correspondence from Russia after
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eleven twenty two sixty three, other than that furnished by the FBI. So
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that's interesting, folks, that Marina didn't receive any letters from anybody in Russia
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after the assassination. It's pretty interesting. I wonder whether the Russian government or
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our government are the one that deep sixth all the correspondents from friends asking what
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happened? Oh, my god, who knows. On November twenty second,
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Oswald tells Captain Fritz that he ate a cheese sandwich and an apple that he
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brought as a lunch from missus Payne's house. Oswald tells Fraser that he will
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not be writing to Irving with Fraser this afternoon, meaning Friday. They arrive
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at the depository at seven fifty five, according to Fraser. After leaving the
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car in the parking lot, Oswald carries the package in his right hand with
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the other end in his armpit, which is impossible to do with a forty
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inch rifle, folks, unless you're a gorilla. On November twenty second,
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nineteen sixty three, Marina says that Oswald did not return to Irving on that
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day when they're shit, Yeah, he was as it Okay, let's move
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to eight am. November twenty second, nineteen sixty three. On November twenty
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third, Superintendent of the school Book Depository, Roy Truley says that the depository
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itself has nineteen employees, with Oswald being a temporary employee. The payroll record,
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which is also the attendance record, is inaccurate. Oswald is listed as
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Leslie Oswald. According to this document, Oswald is credited for eight hours work
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every day, including eleven twenty two sixty three eight. Frankie Kaiser, a
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school book employee who lives in a trailer court at five twenty three zero West
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Ladbetter Red Bird Trailer Park, is absent from the school book Depository on Thursday
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and Friday with a toothache. I mean too think, Frankie Kainzer, I
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got my tooth, thank you. I'm I'm not gonna be able to make
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it in today. I'm quite sorry about that. At the time of the
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assassination, he is at the Baylor Dental School and I believe he is the
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guy. Yeah, he finds some interesting things coming up here, So Frankie
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Kaiser right tsb records show that Kaiser is working eight hours both of these days.
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So apparently the the attendance record for the school book Depository is really not
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that accurate. I w shit, what is paying for eight hours? Just
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eight hours every day? You know? He or not? What's paying for
26:48
eight Roy truly says that Kaiser was not working either. Kaiser is an order
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clerk and a truck driver. He also finds Oswald jacket on the first floor,
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despite nobody else being able to find it. Well, no, remember
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the twenty second nineteen sixty three I want to remember the twenty third, nineteen
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sixty three, or pretty much until December. TiSER finds Oswald's jacket on the
27:32
first floor and his clipboard on the sixth floor several days after the assassination.
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Hawser finds the clipboard on December second, nineteen sixty three, and YadA,
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YadA, YadA. These documents has pictures of the clipboard, so it seems
27:49
that the DPD and hell even co workers there depository didn't didn't really go over
27:59
things too well or do a very good thorough search about things. At eight
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am, Jack Doherty, a TSBD employee who was on the fifth and or
28:14
sixth floor at twelve thirty PM, sees Oswald enter the building without a package.
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According to these documents, the already started work at seven am. On
28:23
November twenty second, nineteen sixty three, Oswald enters the school Book Depository and
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places his blue jacket on the sill of the easternmost window on the north wall
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of the first floor Domino room. Frankie Kaiser finds it here several days later,
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same guy that found the clipboard. FBI Lab examined jacket per DPD request
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on December twenty first, nineteen sixty three. Nothing regarding laundry marks. No
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textile fibers from rifle can be associated with his back. Hair from Oswald's head
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similar to hairfound, but arm hair fragments don't have enough characteristics to match.
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Marina recognizes this jack jacket as Oswald's blue one. On December nineteenth, nineteen
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sixty three, at eight am, Superintendent Roy Truly sees Oswald in the building.
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Eight am, Danny Rs sees Oswald on the first floor of the school
29:30
book depository. Between eight oh five and nine am, James Junior Jarman Triple
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J, a checker on the first floor, sees Oswald on the first floor.
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Jarman is a colored employee. What color is he? Blue? Green,
29:49
pink? On November twenty fourth, Jarman says he sees Lee Harvey Oswald
30:00
won the first floor at eight point fifteen am. At eight thirty am,
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West Frasier sees Oswald working in the school book depository somewhere, according to this
30:11
document. Between nine thirty and ten, Oswald asks James Junior Jarmon Triple J
30:18
about the presidential motorcade route. According to these documents, Charles D. Gibbons,
30:25
a negro list no names this man has been convicted under a narcotics charge
30:30
in the past. Sheriff's Department number three seven nine five four it's right right.
30:44
Charles Gibbons is listed as thirty seven years old, six foot three,
30:48
gangly bean pole, one hundred and sixty five pounds inventory of all listed,
31:03
and they have there's a list here, so I don't know what it means.
31:08
Uh Number one Shelley is on eight lists, but this says no list.
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Then this is two lists. Love Lady is on eight lists of two
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lists. Doherty is on four lists and of one list. RSA is on
31:26
eight list no list is Givens on eight list. I don't know what the
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hell this means, to be honest with you, so we'll just throw that
31:33
baby out with the bath work. At ten am Friday, November twenty second,
31:38
nineteen sixty three, at ten am, Eddie Piper, a negro,
31:45
comes to work as usual starting time at the school book depository. Hyper sees
31:51
Oswald on the first floor. Oswald describes Piper Piper as a short little negro
32:00
to this document. Only time Piper sees Lho on November twenty second is at
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ten am. I hate our racist All these people are look into this.
32:15
I mean, it doesn't matter what ethnicity people are when it comes to describing
32:23
their interactions with le Rby Oswald or describing an event. But somehow some people
32:30
always seem to be putting it in their reports and I don't get it,
32:35
but okay, it's a sign of the times. At ten am, Oswald
32:43
is filling orders for books to be shipped. According to Life Magazine, February
32:46
twenty first, nineteen sixty four, school book depository employee Billy Lovelady white Whitey
32:58
says that Oswald asked Tim the location of certain books on the sixth floor.
33:04
Now, at some point during the day, Love Lady sees Lee Harvey Oswald
33:09
on the sixth floor at ten fifteen am. Harold Hank Norman man, we
33:19
almost had triple ahs. A Negro sees Oswald looking out of the Elm Street
33:27
windows on the first floor. This is at ten fifteen am. Harold Hank
33:36
Norman sees Oswald looking out of the Elm Street windows on the first floor.
33:40
It's weird. These windows have a decorative screen of pierced concrete panels, and
33:46
the view is somewhat restricted during the morning. Bonnie Ray Williams say it with
33:53
me, folks. A Negro says that many employees are planning on watching the
33:59
presidential motorcade from the sixth floor. What According to Bonnie Way Williams, he
34:07
was the only person that showed up for the birthday party on the sixth floor
34:15
that day, as he apparently sat up there by his lonesome little self eighties
34:21
chicken bone sandwich, smoked him a new Port and drank him a Doctor Pepper,
34:28
and then realized that he was the only one at the party, so
34:34
he went to go find everybody else. Eleven am, Friday, November twenty
34:44
second, nineteen sixty three, West Fraser sees Oswald on the first floor according
34:50
to these documents. At eleven am, Jack Doherty sees Oswald on the sixth
34:54
floor getting books. According to these documents. At eleven thirty am, Oswald
35:02
eats lunch with a negro TSBD employee Eddie Piper and Triple J James Junior Drahman
35:15
on the first floor. According to Oswald, cheese, bread, drink and
35:22
apples. Could it be Harold Norman instead of Eddie Piper? Question mark Sylvia
35:29
mar page two twenty five of her book. On eleven twenty two, Oswald
35:36
tells Captain Fritz that he's lunch with Junior. Hey, he lunched with Junior
35:40
and some other employees on the second floor at the time of the assassination in
35:45
the Domino room, which was not on the second floor, as no Negroes
35:52
were allowed on the second in the second floor lunch room, so if he
35:58
ate lunch with any of these get it would have had to be on the
36:00
first floor. Oswald tells Captain Fritz that he eats his lunch in the lunch
36:06
room on the second floor, and possibly Junior and a short Negro employee walks
36:14
through the lunch room while Oswald is there. Oswald has a cheese sand much
36:19
in an apple an apple lunch which he brought from Missus Payne's residence. Oswald
36:28
tells Captain Fritz, according to FBI agent Posty, that he eats his lunch
36:32
on the first floor and it's still there at twelve thirty pm. Recall that
36:38
the school Book Depository lunch period is from twelve noon until twelve forty five according
36:44
to all these documents. Now at eleven forty five, Triple J. James,
36:47
Junior jarmand a Negro says that all the workers on the sixth floor,
36:53
including himself, leave and are out on the street by noon. For poor
37:00
Bonnie Ray Williams, who's sitting up on the sixth floor all by his loansomeself
37:07
between eleven thirty and twelve noon, Triple J James Junior Jarman a Negro sees
37:15
Oswald get out on the elevator on the first floor and go and get some
37:17
boxes and eleven forty five Bill Shelley a Honkey does not see Oswald on the
37:28
second floor. Shelley last sees lah Oo between eleven forty five and twelve noon.
37:36
According to Commission Document five Past threes seventy one, between eleven thirty and
37:43
eleven fifty, Am Billy Love Lady Whitey says that he Bill Shelley, Whitey,
37:50
Jack Doherty, Whitey, Danny Arsay, Mexican Charles Gibbons Negro leave the
37:59
sixth floor to see the president. That focuses your floor laying crew between okay,
38:13
between eleven forty and eleven forty five, Am Bonnie Ray Williams, that's
38:16
right, he wrote, says Oswald on the east or sees Oswald on the
38:22
east side of the sixth floor. Hmm. Interesting. At eleven fifty am,
38:32
Bill Shelley A Whitey says sees Oswald on the first floor near a telephone.
38:40
At eleven fifty am, Bill Lovelady Whitey says that he and Bonnie Ray
38:47
go down on the West automatic elevator from the sixth floor and Oswald is standing
38:52
by the East non automatic elevator on the sixth floor. At eleven something am,
39:05
Bonnie Ray Williams Negro says that he and Charles D. Givens uh grow
39:14
TSBD employee who is a narcotics ex convict. Now when they say they say
39:17
that, like it's so horrible that he got caught smoking a joint somewhere,
39:22
but he's a narcotics ex convict go down from the sixth floor on the East
39:30
non automatic elevator. At eleven thirty am, Charles Gibbons says he went downstairs
39:37
to the bathroom. At eleven forty five am, Charles Gibbons A rope who
39:44
is a narcotics ex convict. Yeah that guy again, says that he Bonnie
39:47
Ray, Williams Negroe, Danny rs a uh Mexican, and Billy Love Lady
39:54
a OK are on an elevator going down from this sixth floor when they passed
40:00
Oswald on the fifth floor. Between eleven forty am and eleven fifty am,
40:07
Danny rsay a the final and sees Oswald on the fifth floor near the elevators.
40:16
At eleven fifty five am, Danny Rsa hey Me final says that he
40:22
Finny Ray Williams he wrote and Billy Love Lady Cracker raced down on the East
40:30
non automatic elevator. R Say thinks that Oswald is on the fifth floor.
40:36
Shortly before noon, Jack E. Doherty, a white boy, sees Oswald
40:42
on the sixth floor. According to this document, at eleven fifty five am,
40:47
Charles Gibbons, a negro ex convict, takes the East non automatic elevator
40:54
to the sixth floor to get his cigarettes. Given see he's Oswald on the
41:00
sixth floor, walking northward towards the wall that the elevators adjoined, thirty to
41:06
forty feet north of the building's south wall along Elm Street and ten feet west
41:10
of the building's east wall along Houston Street. And he had a clipboard in
41:15
his hands. Let's see. According to Inspector Harry Holmes Report of eleven twenty
41:27
four sixty three, the Oswald interview at lunchtime, Hey hollered Hellou invited Oswald
41:35
to go with him. Oswald said, you going down and just send the
41:37
elevator back up and I'll join you in a few minutes. According to the
41:44
Commission document five, page three twenty nine. On eleven twenty two, Givens
41:47
says the exchange regarding the elevators is at eleven thirty. Givens asked Oswald if
41:53
he is going to lunch, and Ozwald says, no, close the gate
41:58
on the west elevator or now to send the elevator back up. When Gibbons
42:02
returns to the first floor on the East non automatic elevator, the west automatic
42:07
elevator is not there. According to these documents, this FBI report and this
42:14
commissioned document, Bill Shelley says rolling reader boxes used to conceal Oswald's position.
42:21
We're half a building width away from their correct position. According to this document,
42:27
at eleven fifty am, Bonnie Ray Williams, a meg route, says
42:32
that he gets to Doctor Pepper and takes the East non automatic elevator to the
42:36
sixth floor, where he sits down by the third set of two windows on
42:38
the south building. Wall facing Elm Street, Williams ates some chicken and drinks
42:45
the dr pepper. Williams says he eats on the sixth and then goes down
42:52
to the fifth floor at twelve oh five, as no one else comes up
42:55
and it's so quiet, Williams puts the empty bottle down by heart and goes
43:00
down to the fifth floor, where he finds Ferald Hank Norman need Grow and
43:07
James Junior Jarman Triple J also a Grow down on the fifth floor. Check
43:16
see commissioned Exhibit two thousand and three, Sylvia Mar, page forty. Williams
43:21
goes to the sixth floor, stays three minutes, goes downstairs to the fifth
43:24
and here's two shots overhead. Check on the location of chicken bone fragments and
43:31
lunch sacks on the boxes surrounding Oswald's hiding place, as it might indicate how
43:37
close Williams actually comes to Oswald if Oswald is in the corner at that time.
43:43
According to Sylvia Mar pages thirty nine and forty noon, November twenty second,
43:51
nineteen sixty three, Eddie Piper a ne Grow sees Oswald on the first
43:57
floor. According to DPD State on February eighteenth, nineteen sixty four, paper
44:04
tells Oswald he is going to eat sandwich, and Oswald mumbles something that he
44:07
is going up to eat tag one, page four sixty seven, whatever that
44:15
is. At noon, Charles Gibbons, a negroox colum Victor goes to visit
44:22
a friend at the parking lot at Elman Record Streets. According to these documents,
44:29
this is the one hundred block of North Record. The friend Edward Shields
44:34
says six oh one Main James Lacey is a friend. On November twenty first,
44:40
nineteen sixty three, Jack Ruby visited the Triple a bonding service on one
44:45
oh six North Record around noon. Phil Hodges regarding Phil Hodges' bond six oh
44:52
seven Main best Cafe six oh one Commerce and this is from the nineteen sixty
44:59
sixty two City the Directory a list of Dallas gamblers on October April second,
45:06
nineteen sixty three, inclues number seventeen Smith and Stoveball one of six South Record
45:14
Bell Bondsman okay. On January eighth, nineteen sixty four, Jarman says he
45:22
and ne grow, Norman also we grow, and Williams also a we grow.
45:30
Eat lunch on the first floor around noon and at twelve twenty five take
45:35
the West elevator up to the fifth floor. They hear shots and go downtown.
45:38
According to this document. On January eight, sixty four, Norman says
45:44
Jarman and he eat lunch on the first floor and then go outside. They
45:47
go to the fifth on West elevator and Williams joins them. Between twelve ten
45:53
pm and twelve twenty five pm, Triple j James Junior Jarman and Harold Hank
46:00
Norman take the West elevator up to the fifth floor. According to these documents,
46:07
they see the East automatic elevator at the sixth floor. According to this
46:10
document, which would indicate Williams came down at twelve fifteen pm, Bonnie Ray
46:20
Williams, a he wrote, says that James Junior Jarman and Harold Hank Norman
46:25
have already reached the fifth floor on the West automatic elevator when he comes down
46:29
from the sixth floor on the east non on East non automatic elevator at twelve
46:35
oh five. According to this document, so you can see, folks,
46:38
we're all over the fricking place here, these three guys are telling him are
46:46
all over the place. When it comes to their timing about who went where,
46:51
said, what did what ro what elevator went to witch floor? We're
46:55
up here, down there, out there, what in the same hell's going
47:00
on around here? So you can see why somebody tried to write all this
47:06
down and tried to collate the data, but ended up just convoluting the hell
47:09
out of everything because there's just so many sciradictory statements when it comes to the
47:16
timing of where people were inside the school book depository around the time of the
47:21
shooting, that is, it's a freaking hot mess, hot mess, all
47:34
right. So at twelve ten PM, there's two experiences six years telephone operators
47:44
on a toll call line servicing twelve thousand phones in Oxnard, California. Report
47:51
number one, the voice of a middle aged woman at ten oh seven ten
47:57
oh eight am Pacific time, saying that the president is going to die at
48:01
ten ten. This is twelve to ten Central Standard time. This said so
48:08
rapidly that it might have been read the Justice the Supreme Court. There is
48:13
going to be a fire in all the windows. The government is going up
48:15
in flames. Named twelve courts in order of importance, starting with the Supreme
48:22
Court to the Probate Court down to the Juvenile Court number five. The President
48:28
is going to die at ten thirty, which is twelve thirty Central Standard time,
48:32
and the courts are again mentioned. The government takes over everything, lock
48:37
stock and barrel. One of the operators heard thermostat rieostat. Heostat lasted ten
48:43
to fifteen minutes. Operators switched to other calls. This caller was never connected
48:47
to anyone else. At one time, when an operator offered help, the
48:52
voice said, please get off the line. I'm using the phone. This
48:54
was a party line in parentheses. According to the Legacy of Doubt, page
49:00
two thirty four says Bobby Kennedy, very curious about calling, investigated Oxnard on
49:05
May twenty eighth, nineteen sixty eight. Call from Oxnard, Cambrilla area,
49:08
fifty miles north of Los Angeles, all right back to here. At twelve
49:15
ten pm, School Book Depository President Jack Chason leaves the building to go home
49:22
twelve fifteen pm. Missus Ri Carolyn Arnold tells the FBI on November twenty sixth
49:29
that Oswald was in the hallway between the front door and the double doors a
49:32
few minutes before twelve fifteen. According to these documents. On eleven twenty two,
49:39
Jack Doherty says that he works on the sixth floor until noon, then
49:43
goes back to the first floor to eat his lunch, and at twelve forty
49:45
five pm, Doherty goes back to work and is on the fifth floor getting
49:50
some stock when he hears a shot according to these documents, but doesn't see
49:54
the three he grows. They're also on the fifth floor at this time,
50:00
nor do they see Jack Doherty. Twelve fifteen, Lho is seen on the
50:07
fifth floor according to this document and Sergeant Gerald Hill at twelve something pm,
50:15
Jack Doherty Whitey goes back to work on the sixth floor. This indicates that
50:22
Doherty calls the west automatic elevator down from the fifth floor and returns on it
50:25
to the sixth floor. Twelve fifteen to twelve twenty, Danny ar saying Mexican
50:34
assist at old man with kidney trouble to the men's room on the west side
50:37
of the second floor the school Bok depository. He even holds the man's penis
50:43
while he you're in age. I'm joking about that. Sees him leave in
50:51
a black car. R Sade describes on November twenty second nineteen sixty three.
50:55
This man is a real old man in an old brown suit in a western
51:00
type hat. Ar say season leave a school book depository and drive off in
51:06
an old black buick. Old man is in school book depository after lunch,
51:10
but not carrying anything in the hands. Texas school Book Depository and Superintendent Truly
51:16
says that the normal lunch period is from twelve to twelve forty five. However,
51:22
as Doherty comes an hour earlier than the other employees in the morning,
51:24
perhaps his lunch period might be different. You know, that's a pretty good
51:31
point. I never thought about that before that. When Doherty talks about taking
51:37
his lunch it happened at a different time than everybody else because he got there
51:40
earlier. Jack E. Doherty Cracker takes the west automatic elevator on the sixth
51:47
floor and goes to the fifth floor, where he is about ten feet from
51:51
the elevator when he hears something that he thinks a is a backfire, B
51:55
is a shot overhead. According to a Commission document two of six, page
52:00
eleven and these other documents, a white male twenty eight sallo complexion, foreign
52:07
appearance, very prominent nose. I think Honker goes to Anderson Studios, Cedar
52:14
Springs and Harwood and asks to make a long distance collect call to Indiana.
52:17
Leaves without completing the call, very nervous, just as reports of the shooting
52:22
come in commissioned Document five pages four thirty nine relevance WD. Sanders and Geneva
52:30
Hind the only employee in the school book depository second floor office is that the
52:35
power went off and phones went dead in the school book depository as the pilot
52:39
car the motorcade approached the school book Depository according to you guessed it, these
52:46
documents and then accompanying this is a very interesting chart. This is where it
53:00
would behoove me to be on video right now so I could show you these
53:04
documents, because they're really too complicated to try to convey. But basically,
53:15
according to the testimony of Bonnie Ray, Williams, Charles Gibbons, Danny R.
53:19
Say, Bonnie Ray, Williams, Billy Lovelady, Jack Doherty, Triple
53:23
J Harold and Hank, they tried to place a visual aid here of a
53:37
virtual building and floor by floor and elevator by elevator where people were located at
53:45
certain times, at least at all of the allegations, and it is very
53:53
interesting. It's it's it's a clusterfuck. Really, that's what it is,
53:58
to be honest with you, folks. It's just it, the giant cluster,
54:02
giant cluster, and I don't know how to fix it. I don't
54:07
know what it all means. But you can see, just by this small
54:12
snapshot in time, when it comes to eyewitness testimony and verbal allegations, just
54:22
how off things can be, just how much people's memories can differ, just
54:30
how far the facts of something can be misconstrued. It's a total total mess
54:40
which tries making or which makes trying to figure all this out all the more
54:45
difficult. And you know, sometimes it is what it is, and that's
54:52
why we're still here all these years later, you know, trying to figure
54:58
this all out. But as they say, it keeps us in a job,
55:04
right anyway. That's it for this week, folks, Hope you enjoyed
55:09
it again. Make sure please please please head to YouTube, make sure you
55:15
subscribe and hit the notification bill for the lone Gum and podcast channel. You
55:21
won't want to miss stuff on the socials at the lone Gum and seven.
55:24
You can find me anywhere a good podcast or heard, and make sure you
55:30
are also listening to Quick Hits a JFK News and Notes podcasts I do with
55:34
my buddy Doug. That's it for me. That's it for this week.
55:37
That's it for episode of two five six. Or enjoy the sweet sounds of
55:43
Shipper to Fire and Conspiracy. Listen to the words people until next time.
55:50
Pup Pup, Pup pup. The lead him out the free world. It's
56:05
too ros seeing the baby the wa fell and he was bacher that everyone who
56:17
was gone on grown. She's a man. Don't believed to tell you the
56:35
baby eyes the big I have to tell you the baby bet that till the
56:53
chair came. Yeah, the little bolly waiting all sover, the trumper up
57:16
at the gun, the coup of the pen. I do a ball if
57:23
they got you of the song, don't big all wanting to tell you you
57:37
be lines have to tell you the biggiest thing that you champion him way uh
58:10
wha tiny whit guy in the uh situation to know my own uh from manything
58:15
bought kind of him that we got him head and he fell and down him
58:20
back to me of his car. One was on his head never get him.
58:24
Got oh no, down the ball was ch don't the big chap can
58:58
get We'll go where, oh way, oh where? Oh I'm getting her
59:20
fat. And you knows that I have to rep